Episode 183: Chain of Fraud

podcasting two point over June 22 2024, episode 183 chain of fraud oh, what's going on? It's Saturday, but it is once again for the official board meeting of podcasting 2.0 Everything you need to know this going on in podcasting, everything happening in podcast index dot social and there's a lot going on their podcast index and of course the namespace. We are the only boardroom that meets on Saturday when Fridays

traveler.

Yeah, that's a homecoming. Yeah, sorry about last Friday and yesterday, but here we are. We could not could not have a board meeting skipped two weeks in a row. So we just moved it over to Saturday.

They were going to have a two week Skipper coming up soon again.

Oh, that's right. Because you're going on vacation. Right? You're actually going out? You're leaving him leaving.

We're just you know, we've been around so long that now we're just starting to you know, we're cruising. We're

getting we're getting jaded. Yeah, podcasting. 2.0 I missed the first thing we could chop off the list. You know, I gotta live exactly. I've

been reading this book called. is fantastic book highly recommended called lab. 257.

Okay,

you know, this will No, I don't. Do you know the Plum Island?

Oh, yes. Yes, I know all about Plum Island. I think that's where we got I don't know why I'm disease from. Yeah,

it's a few things. Yes. West Nile virus. A couple other things. Yeah. It's the gift that keeps on giving. And that this book is about the history of Plum Island and is like the it started off as a germ warfare facility under the under the army. Then it transitioned to an animal. Animal virus research lab. Yeah. So they said like, yes. So they say. And so this, this book that goes through all like, you know, FOIA requests, and all of these declassified documents, just

I don't need to take a shower and

lunch. Even lunch right next to an open thing of, you know, rift valley fever. Yeah.

Yeah. Buying stuff at the wet market. Oh,

yeah, exactly. Yeah. Eaten bad. So yeah, the whole thing. Yeah. That's interesting. I, it's hard to keep it up. You know?

Yeah. So I was in the Netherlands for for a full week. I was pretty interesting. Actually. Friday to Friday to be exact about it. It was nice. Yeah, it was nice. Yeah, I went to visit my daughter, but I also didn't know agenda meet up and there was nice, lots and lots of lots of podcasts and people just nice. He's cool. Did

you run into anybody who was from the podcasting? 2.0 sphere?

No, no, no. Okay. Yeah. No, everyone. Everyone has a podcast though. That counts. Everybody seems to have one.

You didn't You didn't run into the mysterious Satoshis industry? No,

I although I did. They made me an official node runner forgot who that the node node runner guys. Are you familiar with

this group? That sounds really familiar. Yeah. So I

guess there's people who run full nodes and and they have their they have podcasts and they gave me it's like a little knighting ceremony and they give me this pin. Whoa, a node runner. Yeah, I feel I feel very special. That like a no drunk and

I feel left. A little left out. I mean, I want to be a node runner. I run a node. Yes, you do. Don't the pin. The pin is cool.

Anyway, so I've been trying to trying to keep up with with everything. And I don't before we bring in our guests, should we should we talk about some namespace stuff because it seems like you've had a lot of updates and I don't know if if you if you're up to it. Sure. I'm updating him on we need to do that. And now it's time for some hot namespace talk. Here's the stuff that I wrote down. Okay, I wrote down ln addresses,

Yeah. And Nathan's involved in that right, Nathan? Nathan keeps pushing out some new stuff. So let's wait to talk about Elon address until until our guests arrived. Okay.

Oh, that'll be okay. Yeah. Let's see. Boosts UU ID. I saw that. Where'd that come from? What is that? Exactly.

So that's an that's an older pull request from Dobie Das. Let me just go through what has been added lately.

Okay. That's just the better idea.

Just to kind of give some context here. Let me pull up the namespace real quick, not prepared to go into the edit. Did inspectors go in that quick? Well, we've

been avoiding it. And you know, it's a Saturday so we might as well just take the pain now.

See, changes made? Here we go. So yeah, it's so far with face seven is some of this goes back to May. But just face face seven. So far, we've formalized the chat tag, podcast, colon chat, the publisher tag with the associated publisher medium. And the added the course medium, to

that's ce o u r s e for people who want the course as an as an a course you can take and so that what is the main? What is the main difference of how a course is displayed? Or what are the main parts of that namespace? Have that tag or that medium? Yeah,

the course is about the course is a you know, look, look. educational thing. Yeah. So if you're going to take if you're going to take a course, like liquid berry from pot home does, right.

So of course, so does it do? Is there anything specific that needs to be specified? In course, or is it just telling you what it is? I mean, it's a different way of displaying the episodes is there what what is because I've seen various thing you have to pay to actually get it right.

Yeah, so well, you would have the the coarse medium just just gives a hint to the app

shouldn't just be medium equals paywall or

bad. I mean, I guess I guess you could,

we should probably have that too. Might as well medium equals paywall everybody,

mediums, medium equals you can't have it. Yeah. So the course would be something like, you know, the app just needs to know, okay, what order? Do I need to display these these in? What's what's, um, I

guess? There's a lot of these because I guess that's my question is, what is the display? What are the display options for a course?

I'm thinking about, you know, there's these sites like Udemy? Is that is that one? Think there's something else? Yeah, Udemy online courses, learn anything on your own schedule this like a, like, there's a lot of these kinds of sites where you where you learn a course and it may have what is in the description may be end up being beside it as a follow along or the lyrics, I mean, excuse me out layers, but the

but doesn't that need to be defined?

Well, yeah, I guess, but it doesn't mean but also, we never defined music as far as like the details of that music was like we all kind of. Okay, it would be liner notes or in the description transcript is the lyrics. But nobody but there's not that's not decided designed anywhere. So, you know, I think I think this is one of those things where you'd have to, we had to see what people do. Okay, fair enough. Yeah. But basically, whatever Barry wants. Yeah.

Well, that's what I'm saying. So if berries courses is an example, then that's an exam was good for me.

Yeah, I mean, it's I think, I think it's okay for him to set the standard on this. Very cool.

Then as so and so the course equals L what's a playlist them I guess? Yeah,

like a list of courses. Yeah. Because they have a bunch of he could have a playlist of course is all about Dino or No, Jas, or whatever. Okay. And then. So then last night, I merged in a, an older pull request from W Das. To add a boost UU ID. Yeah, as an optional value on the TLV record. And that was an addition to the blipped in spec. So there's, there's there's been a UU ID in there forever, where you could say, okay, the UU ID property of the to the record

it's an optional thing it's sent, right? Yeah, right, right.

So it's usually just some random string of characters, just just so you can try to get some idea of uniqueness of where the things are coming from. Is this the same person boosting you over and over is is my different? Even though you have no idea? I have no way to trace that back. And

this is, so that's something that would be generated by the apps.

Yeah, okay. Exactly. And but so then WDS has said, Well, you know, here's the problem is that if one boost generates five splits, then those splits all go to different places, and you can't really tell where whether it was all part of the same boost or not. Was it three different you know, was it safe safe? It goes three different split destinations? Then what do you know that a rule is the same split that did it? Did did it three times? Or was it three separate ones? Or what

what is what is the point? What exactly do we want to know with this boost you ID tracking of what

the tracking of of like trying to determine whether or not the whether or not a boost? Okay, so you on the receiving end, you just receive a payment? Yeah. And you don't, but you don't know whether that payment was part of this was just a split, let's say you get five payments. Was that? Was that five different boosts? Or was that somehow three splits three split paying five split payments from the same boost?

Hmm, okay. I still don't quite understand why you need that. I mean, it's fine. I just look at helipad I don't look at anything else. I only need to look at one place and I see something come in and I see the person who sent it I see it's a split what the percentages

mean please let's see if I can find what I

don't have. I only once I accidentally put put the same note in twice into a value block and that was confusing. But once Okay, hear it out then. But it doesn't seem like I mean, I don't know it's just I don't quite understand what it's for.

But Dobby das explained. He gave me an example he said my example use cases this RSS Blue has a 2% split to display booster grams to creators. If both a song and a music show are hosted at RSS blue, we receive two payments when a song is boosted during the value time split. There is no exact way for us to determine if it's a single boost or two.

Oh, okay, so yeah, I got Okay, I see. Yes, I can see where that where he needs that as a whole giving that Yeah, okay. Yeah. And

when when you release your album and play that on booster Grand Ball, you'll need it too.

I was thinking about that use case like, I'm not gonna release an album. I will never need this. But

if you ever do, there'll be.

Alright. Okay.

So then what what I'm working on now. What I'm working on now is I'm just making my way through the list is the Latin is the ln address lightening address attribute on the value recipient in this, this ended up. I went into this thinking this would be an easy addition. And it ended up being sort of a can of worms.

Oh, good. Well, we'll talk about that one in a moment. Yeah, the, the only other two ones that I'm just seeing floating out there. And I'm trying to pay attention to what, what Sam Sethi is doing with true fans because he tends to do stuff and, and then says he supports it. And I just want to make sure everyone's heard about it. Because so one is the event, which is kind of an interesting, I was listening to to Sam's tech corner on pod news weekly review, which seems to be

I could have sworn Nathan was involved in Yeah, I

think so. And the pod two guys, it just so so you can have I'm not quite sure what it is other than there's an event and then you can publish an event in your feed. Just as a separate item. Have you looked at this at all? Well,

yeah, it's like it's like a Yeah, like, like a reference to an upcoming event. Okay, like, we're like we're gonna do. But here's the way I read it. Maybe Maybe this you've read it differently. But here's the way I see it, is that you have an upcoming like some this happens a lot with podcast. I

Okay, so it's a separate item that that it's just an item that has an event with event information in there. It's not it's not linked to a specific episode, or is it?

It's a remote as a link is a remote item. Okay. Yeah, to a specific theme in where the feed is going to be the remote event, there's going to be the lava, so

it would like would be treated as the same way a live item is treated as a separate entity somewhere within the player. I

believe so. Yeah. This display of app is TBD. But I think the I think a good use. My mental use case for this would be like Ainsley Costello has a new she has multiple feeds right now of different things. She could put this in there, announcing an upcoming show, the live show, and that would be the reference to the feed that's gonna host the live shot.

Okay, got it. Got it. That's it. Okay. That's cool. That's cool. That was a lot going on. Yeah,

yeah, there is. And, um, I mean, I would think that the, the feed that would take the remote item reference to that feed is going to carry the live event would also have in it, like, you know, put a funding tag in a value block and all these kind of, you know, ways to support it, the live event or get tickets or whatever, okay, all right. Then linked to the merch store merch.

I love I love the whole Hey, I will have tickets. You can hit a pod ping and the ticket mount will update Mike Okay. All right. I like it. I like it. We got to figure that the final one that I had which, which I don't think we need to delve into but just It's a way of medium equals radio. Which is, which seems like which is linked to a pub. This is kind of what we're talking about, for the past few shows about a radio station. And some I got to figure out what Sam has done

Yeah, so net so Nathan's explanation for it on the GitHub would be if a radio stations set up here, he this is quite I'm quoting Nathan, if a radio station set up podcast feeds with a live items for all their shows, and connected them with a publisher feed, then podcast apps could aggregate those live streams together into a publisher level radio station without any new tags. Okay. I like it. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, wait for it. Yeah. Yeah. No agenda stream could do that.

So but it would be stuff after the fact or even into the future.

I guess both, okay. Because you know, you because it's all it's all being pulled together, all those feeds are getting pulled together into a publisher feed. Now that we have publisher feeds Nathan's saying, I'd love to hear y'all discuss the warrants a new medium versus not is the threshold a tailored listener experience? I mean, he know that squishy nice. I mean, squishy

is the right word. Yeah.

Because sometimes, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, some, some of them are obvious. It seems to me. Yeah, I think to me, it is a matter of, to me it's a matter of is this content different enough than a podcast? So that the app really does need to change his behavior to handle the content? Like, does the app need to know in order to give a sane experience for the for the

what do you call that again? So I think the main thing is keep this keep posting the stuff on podcasts index dot social, so that we know about it, so it doesn't just get you know, because because then what happens is, you know, the Sam gets mad because no one's implementing this. We have to, we have to keep making everybody aware of it. I think the events

This is a Waterloo Cherry Limeade Wait,

I have a Waterloo Cherry Limeade here myself. Oh, Broder the chat. I haven't opened it yet. I'm still drinking my gigawatt Coffee Roasters snap chill.

It doesn't taste anything like cherries or LA? No, no. At all. Plus, for the if, at all, at all, at

least, this is the one Waterloo that actually tastes like something besides just water. Okay, so anyway, let's let's keep our eye on that stuff and just keep publishing and let people know when there's feeds. You know, tell it to so we can keep letting the app devs know that it's out there because I think these are some pretty cool tags. I like it a lot.

Me too. And I would I would recommend if you're gonna if you when you post something on the on the Get on the GitHub repo for the namespace also cross posted to podcast

because I missed all kinds of stuff on the GitHub all the time. And also my eyes glaze over. Sometimes it's it's because it's just not. I'm so happy we have both but we have been crushing it Cross posting is important. It really is. Because

here's what happens. You miss your photo, you don't check it for a few weeks in the one this one post grows into a thread, that's like 75 comments. I cannot understand Yeah, no, it's painful. You can understand it,

I have two more things I want to talk about before we get our guests in. The first one is, you know, being often the frontline support for podcast index, which I love doing, by the way for as far as possible. I have noticed an inordinate amount of people who have anchor feeds, where they are confused that aid won't show on iTunes or in podcast index. And of course, all I need to do is open up the feed, do a CTRL F and look for block. I think anchor is adding iTunes block

I've suspected that too. And I don't I don't know how to prove it. That

well. I can't prove it either. But but a lot of new people show up and they say hey, I got my feed over here on anchor and, and it's not showing up in podcast index, and then I'll see that it has the block. But I'll before I say that I say Hey, is it showing up on iTunes? No, it's not showing up there either in that weird, I'm gonna ask like, and then you know, they have to go back and they have to contact anchor or

let's create that I've created an I've got an anchor account that I use for to test stuff and with the aggregator. And it didn't use to do that, then there'd be a recent change. I don't know. I mean, we're

not really cool if they're creating feeds that by default will not or won't or should not show in, in iTunes, whether it's iTunes, accepts it or not, is secondary. But just to add a block without letting people know, I don't want to accuse them of anything for sure. But it sure seems like just the sheer volume of people who show up with new feeds where a block tag is in there.

I think it's a great idea. Because we I mean, I don't ingest their stuff anymore automatically. Anyway. I encourage that.

There you go. All right.

I mean, seriously, I mean, after you've ingested 100,000 feeds that are just crying somebody we did or just somebody with a with a 15 second episode. And they never post again. It's like, I'm not sorry, I'm not doing this anymore. If you care if you actually have a legit podcast that you care about other people finding. Yeah. And you host on a free on a free post like anchor. Yeah, you need to you need to do the extra step of contacting a directory and letting them know

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, well, people are starting to realize that free isn't necessarily good that's for sure with a lot of things. One last thing because I have two clips for this short ones. I'm just flabbergasted by by the blatant fraud that podcasters are now putting out there and blaming, you know, you know, a clip I'm playing right? Yeah. Well, I have to I have to this is the I think not podcast. Forget who did Spurlock post this I can't remember it so it's

And if you are on Apple podcasts, I want to tell you there was an iOS update that is making all podcasters bend over grab our ankles and take it up the but if you are on Apple podcasts and you go to our page, please click the three dots in the top right hand corner, go to settings and just click automatically download 10 latest episodes just that will fix the iOS update that has fucked all of the podcasters up again go to the three dots on the top left hit settings and about a little

I mean, that's outrageous.

First of all, yikes. I mean, yeah, yes, yikes is right. And second of all, I mean just begging for downloads like one one stop at 10 Why don't you subscribe, download 10 episodes then unsubscribed and do it again. I mean, like just keep asking for Jack getting jacked up. But I

mean, it's clearly it's clearly fraudulent. Yeah. And what really surprised me is to hear not quite as blatant not to this level because this was actually more instruction than we used to have to give people how to subscribe to the podcast itself. You know, that was like Go to the website, look for the RSS icon right click copy, go to your podcast application page

I was recently told about a situation where I was recently told best situation where there was a podcast that a hat was having its advertising handled by a third party. So you have you have the podcast, you have the advertiser who's or the the advertising agency. And then you have the podcast host. And, you know, the podcast, the advertising agency signed up for a service that's supposed to get you up the ranks in Apple podcast directory. And, you know, they do this through

chain of fraud. Well, imagine how surprised I was flying home from the Netherlands and I downloaded a whole bunch of podcasts. And I play my favorite hate listen on the media. And listen to what they're doing. Hey,

wait, wait, wait, is on the media supplanted pivot is your favorite?

Well, did I say favorite?

He said he said this is your favorite.

Hey, listen, it's my second favorite pivot. Ken always has to be taught pivot is the Tucker favorite. There's no doubt about it. Or listen to this.

Hey, this is the on the media midweek Podcast. I'm Mike Lowe injure. We've got a great new interview for you this week. But first, a quick reminder, if you're an iPhone user, and you listen to Oh, TM on the Apple podcast app, the one that comes downloaded on your phone, please take a second to click on that app, go to our feed. And in the top right corner. If you see a plus Follow button, click that it will automatically download new episodes of on the media when

Oh wait. It's for your benefit listeners. So you won't have to stream when you're out and about. But wait, there's more. If you

see a checkmark in the upper right corner, then you're good to go. And while you're at it, please leave us a review. We'd love to hear what you think about the show as the ratings help ATM and your feedback means a lot to us. Yeah All right. All right on to the podcast.

You can listen when you're out and about you don't have to stream it give us downloads it's

the same exact thing except the up the butt part.

No, that would have been awesome.

Hello injury No, you're broke.

Hey, we're getting screwed up the butt here on NPR. Top right corner. All of this to say there is an alternative way to receive value for your podcast at the value for value model. We've been pioneering it here on podcasting 2.0 for a while and We've had fantastic partners in the lightning's I'm gonna say it space who have who have helped build this

That's the giant car that your granddad drives.

Exactly. Good. Rollin. Good to meet you. You are playing the role of, of Boomi. Today, Michael boomin. I guess he he gave up his spot for you.

Yeah, I'm one of the developers at LV so I can step in and answer a few technical questions. I actually wanted to mention something quickly though. Because at the start, you said you've got a note runners badge is quite, quite cool because we also met met him is if at the Bitcoin Film Fest, earlier this year, he runs note, he runs node runners radio so you can actually vote you can pay with sets to vote for a song so I don't think is podcasting. 2.0 But but it's a cool idea.

sure that gives me more Bitcoin credibility, more Maxi cred, I believe. Yes, I need Maxie credit. And let's say hello to Moritz Kaminski, Moritz, how you doing brother?

Yeah, good. Thanks for inviting us again. And they've secured

Yeah, it's it's been long overdue. There's been all kinds of compute misinformation and disinformation no doubt done by Putin and his team of AI experts. We've just been trying to figure out what's going on. In general, since a lot of, or probably every, almost every single podcast app has has lent

yeah, sure. I mean, that's why we're here. Right. So I mean, first of all, they're like our commitment to value for value, and podcasting has, has like, never changed. So it's still the same. Since then, when we talked like on on the same show here at the boardroom, two years ago. But like, at Adobe, things have changed. So so we experienced quite some user

and that limit is like a million SATs and you encourage people to really use it as a daily, which I think is perfect to use it as a daily wallet moved the SATs off keeping under that limit.

Yeah. So yeah, that's it. That's it basically. Um, and then, um, but the again, so the commitment to podcasting tool has never like like changed. So for example, all the AP API partners, their users could always sign up to Alby to an AVI account without the need of an invite code. Um, so that was basically always a free road there. And on top, everybody who reaches out to us and ask us for an invite code gets just an invite code. Right? Right via email, it's just we are more

which is which is fantastic. Of course, the your typical podcaster even will not go to the lengths of setting up their own node initially. But I know you understand that, but the the obviously the capability is there, and it's great.

And, um, yeah, so now it's instead also what we continue now to promote. So we will, we have some some very cool things in the works. And that's actually also where Roland is, is basically the lead the lead developer. So that's super cool that he can join us here. But the what regarding the LV API, it really like it's the idea is that it just keeps working no matter what funding pack and you have there happens to be an account, you have your own node. And it's up to the

Maybe before we get into all the new things you're doing, just understand the basic limitations. It sounds like you're you you really want to get out of the Manage wallet bid that managed funds business is that do I see that correctly?

Yes, that's our intention. Because we also, I personally, for example, learned. So financial regulations will get stricter over time. But at the same time, we are working on an on a payment network, which is the Lightning Network, which has incredible like capabilities compared to the current payment system. And if we would go down like the road of getting financial, financially fully regulated and adhering to these laws with transaction

so just understanding albies business then you want to be a front end, you can use any funding source, which makes a lot of sense. How, if you don't mind me asking what what will the business or what is the business model of Alby if you're providing the At free, basically now, will you be charging for that down the road? Or how Where do you where do you want to insert yourself? Because you're basically offering lightning services through a simple API or through a front

So that's really what we want, where we want to position us as we want to just remove the away the complexity and and especially for apps and developers and be closer to to apps basically, and bring bring digital payments there. And that's why we plan also to monetize our services through a premium plan, basically, for people who want more convenience, then, for example, installing their node at home, there will be a pro plan where we charge on a monthly basis,

Is there a drop dead date? When when the lb API that apps like Casta Matic and Banpo adverse? Is there a day that's coming when they when those wallets that they are hosting the hosting for their listeners are going to be not available in more and they have to move funds off?

No, there's no droplet. So we be we might not necessarily onboard users to these like, let's say arm existing Albia accounts and wallets anymore. But the current users can keep using them. So there will be there is there is no date and also forthcoming. There is no no bigger issue that

that there will ever be because So our main limitation when so I'm just putting podcasters on one side for a second. Just leave those out of the conversation purely about the because most app developers have really not looked into the Lightning Network. You know, obviously,

are that's that's, I better leave that to Sam. I think that's that's a great experiment what he's doing there. And I don't know like how he's going right now. So we helped him onboard to the to this new wallet basically. And he wants to use that as a back end and onboard people on virtual wallets. Okay, so he's Oh, I

think he's

doing the virtual wallet part. He's He's taken care of that himself internally, and it's just connecting to a big node that you're running for him.

And we're not running the node for him. He's running the node himself. Right. So that's the idea of, of self custody. But actually, so I think for all these users who are afraid of running their own note, I think the new wallet that we're going to bring out is really something for them. Right? So it's not, it's not the, you need to assemble hardware, first, buy hardware, assemble it, and then set it up at home, exited access it through a browser also, and then

okay. But it has a funding requirement, if I am, am I correct?

Yes, you but the funding requirement is solvable, right? So there are LSPs involved, where you can with like, one, two clicks, get a channel with a receiving capacity, and as a podcaster, then you're good to go, right? You do not even need to fund this wallet as a podcast, because you will then receive something from from the listeners.

And that okay, so that happens automatically upon first receive, then inbound channel opens up with liquidity.

And it does not happen automatically. But it happens, like on purpose the, we want to give users the control of okay, how much do they actually expect, and also put them in the, into the spot of, of making the decision? And also an economic decision of requesting inbound capacity from from an LSP.

Right. So just so you understand, and I, I totally understand where you're going, I understand the vision, I think it's the right thing to do from your, from your perspective, it's totally not doable from the certainly not from the listeners, certainly not from musicians. The knowledge level is so low is so low, they really, they're barely

I'm, I'm not too much worried about that. So I definitely get your point and I think this is something that we need to work on like step by step, automating these these flows on and abstracting away things like opening a channel for example, and that will happen and we also know how we can do that but this like one click sign up, and I have my wallet. Actually, we have also already ideas there and there are still based on on on a self custodial signup, sorry self

on in brother.

Hello. Yeah. Just before that. You had a question about these apps that use their LV API right now, will they eventually stop working. And that's not the case. So we continue to build upon and support the RBA API. And it's just the funding source that will change just like you said. And so rather than it being managed by the shed lb service, things will decentralize. So a lot of our users will be running their own nodes, but they will still be connected to the LV

right now, the biggest hurdle we have is you can no longer create a current noncustodial Albea wallet in the US, which of course hampers our onboarding. So I'm looking for and I and I hear what you're saying. So there will be kind of like a one click functionality in the future, I don't know about 100,000 SATs, I think you can get most people to put $5 in probably five euros. So you're talking more about, you know, 25,000 SATs, maybe 20,000 SATs, I don't know if that's enough to

So regarding the lb accounts in the US, everybody that reaches out to us, like sends an email [email protected] I will reply with an invite code in. So that's no issue every party also people in the US can create an N lb account today. It's we just have managed yet to remove this invite only feature yet unfortunately, the only requirement that we have is that we then help them to get on on this new self custodial app. And again, it's just like, we spin it up for you in the cloud, we

purely from the listener standpoint. So the receiving side I'm less worried about, I'm really you know, I'm a podcast listener, my I'm listening to a podcast, my podcaster says, Hey, you can support us through value for value. This is where someone's going to make a huge step, because they're going to open up something called a wallet. And obviously they'd like to do that inside of the app they're using. So that's where you want kind of like an automatic wallet open.

I think that's that's definitely a hard nut to crack. And that's also where we quickly arrive at the current limits of the Lightning Network. If you want to use it in a self custodial way, if you want to use it in a custodial way, in a properly regulated way, then yeah, that's basically like, like using another bank account where you have to sign up, scan your ID or upload a photo and such and and do it that way. But I also think this, this this, this, this budget feature that

way too much for most people. And I'm just trying to find the middle ground. So I understand it's going to take a few months. And I don't want to hold anyone to schedule because it might take you another year doesn't matter. I mean, that's that's your development timeline. What I'm just trying to get to is can it be simple enough that a podcast app can access an API or spin up a wallet, or a node through the app through an app to the Alby API, require a budget to be

Yeah, I think like true friends now. Does a lot. Does a lot on that part, actually. Right. Then we saw this experiment. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see how this experiment turns out. Yeah, I think in general, so it's, it's definitely doable. In in, let's say, more like custodial way where you share your, your wallet with others people on on one big note. And you outsource things like like channel management to, to a central party. And, like in the traditional banking way, so

Do you have any insight into because we're talking about regulations that aren't really there yet? Do you have any insight or do you just have a feeling of where this is going particularly as it pertains to the United States?

Now, I think that's, at least for the United States, it's quite clear. I mean, if if if users do not interact With the payment networks themselves, but through third party, and that's the case, if they don't have their own keys, then you are a money service business, and you need to be regulated by FinCEN. And you need money transmitter licenses by, by most of the states in the US and in addition.

Dave

Yeah, it seems to me like the the reason I've thought this for a while that the real issue on the regulatory side with all of this stuff is that the large, the large Bitcoin entities that, that do have the money transmitter licenses and do have the correct regulatory structure like Cash App strike and, and those kinds of organizations. They're not there, they're not providing the, they're not providing the they have they have lightning support, but they're not

Yeah, but that's also one reason why we do now this step. And yes, we will like increase the bar a little bit to run a new lb wallet. But we are quite sure that we can lower it. Same as we lowered the bar, like two years ago, when we published LV API.

Your What's your I think what we're seeing now in the just as in Bitcoin as a whole, just speaking outside of lightning itself, is with ETFs. And with, there's a weird dynamic going on right now, where you have two things happening at the same time, you have a greater awareness and acceptance of Bitcoin as a financial instrument, across the board. And then you also have credit, just selective cracking down trying to send a vague message to the market, that you

that's what I'm looking for whether it's your own road or not, that doesn't matter, I mean that that's perfect. I'm just looking for that frictionless part.

But see, then the doubt, then the downside becomes of that becomes that, like, you know, let's imagine that PayPal allowed that to happen. Let's imagine that PayPal will allow people to just, like just spin up transparent wallets that they kind of barely even know they have, on their own back end, what you would end up with is just a whole bunch of sort of just ethereal wallets with funds in them, that end up in limbo a lot of times, and people are just not even aware of how to

that's actually what we were we are solving with this new wallet, because that's the idea is that it serves as your your hub. So you maybe need to do the extra step. But it's just one time in the beginning to make sure you have enough spending balance receiving capacity. But afterwards, you can fully you have this definitely this plug and play experience of Yes, bring your your Adobe account to a pot worse to a rss.com. And that's really just one click

understood. What is can you just what will the steps be? Do you have a funding on ramp as well? Or do you do point people to a certain place to get to transfer Fiat into Satoshis? What is what are those steps? Or do you have nuts? Okay, if you have not, I'm just trying to understand how we can streamline it.

But ya know, it's basically like every other account that you create, you set your password and then you if you have already Bitcoin, then you can just directly open my channel, we recommend your channel partners, no need for searching some. So and then you're good to go already. Or if you don't have Bitcoin, then define your password. You can directly in the new wallet, you can top it up with a credit

Okay, that's good.

And then theoretically, sorry, theoretically, we could even like if, once we've tested this properly, and a lot of confidence in that we could even say okay, why not just top it up with a credit card? And automatically open my channel? Yeah. So yes. That's all possible. And that's something we're looking into that I

think, yeah, go head to head. Yeah, yeah, I was just gonna say because I think that really is I don't I think the issue is less with with the con with the concept of having a wallet because I think everybody's comfortable with that they Okay, okay, now I have an lb wallet. And I can do lots of things with this lb wallet. I can cook it, hook it to a podcast app, I can do you know, get over here to Indy hub or whatever. I think that's not the issue. I think everybody's

And even just knowing there's a chat, I love the business model. I understand that now. You get your Albea your your Alby is your own node, your sovereign, you have your keys, you lose that you're screwed, but you can and what albies business model will be doing is you will be connecting to every other app necessary in the entire lightning ecosystem.

definitely so. And there's also another idea, for example, since we want to have a budget to automatically create a channel for for the user. The downside here is a little bit that we would do like an upfront commitment, because we wouldn't need to pay for this channel. Right. And, and then if if the user churns quickly, from the wallet away again, then we cannot recover the costs basically. So we need to still think a little bit how we can make that in a way that we do

an idea. Because I still feel like in chat F says we're focused too much on the channel. But the channel thing is the thing that's the problem, people don't understand this. They understand Venmo they don't even I mean, even the currently the whole send me an invoice so it can pay your invoices already foreign to people is very complicated to people who are used to Venmo and PayPal. What if podcasts index, for podcast wallets only functioned as the liquidity provider. So and not

So you this would mean if someone would sign up through podres, podcast, guru or custom Matic, for example. We know somehow this person is interested in in listening to podcasts and and making value for value payments. And then in this moment, for example, we could request a channel from you to give this user some initial balance basically on that, actually, yeah, I think it's, we should think about that actually is like this idea. And

we open it we open the channel and then essentially push push to the other side. Yeah, I mean, that I think, I mean, yeah, definitely made me mad. I've talked about doing that. I mean, it's it's a, it's a thing that are noticed sitting, you know, sitting there, it is well connected and

Yeah, but like, here's one question that I have. So I mean, that's always a little bit of a strategic decision that we because there are ways to automate these things like like channel management with some like lightning so as providers, but we, so far we said okay, we just want to make sure people's wallet work out and they are not crept into a text, like lightning service provider, where then in times of high, high on chain fees, they have to constantly open new channels,

I mean, that's interest, I feel that it feels like podcasting can be a great onboarding mechanism to what all of Lb provides. So, as as lightning becomes more integrated into normal life. There'll be more and more and I think that's your vision, more and more reasons to have your own know that you can connect to all these different services and apps that are out there. But to bring them in, you're going to

Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, if I can jump in here. I think this Uncle Tom, so we call it uncle Jim's idea perfectly fits here. And it should be able to connect. So if you run an LP hub, you can actually connect to an external lightning node. So you should be able to connect. So run boot up and your lb hub, connect to your existing node, and you'll be able to set up these connections for people who connect with different podcasting apps. Regulatory

Rollin. Can you talk about that? Because I'm not sure what you the lb hub? Yeah, the lb hub? Can you just describe what that is?

Yeah, so it's, um, it's, it's not a it's not a typical Wallet. So if you if you think of a typical wallet, right that you start on your phone, and you send and receive payments. It's it's not that it's something completely different. It's completely revolutionary, is basically what you get with the lb account, right. But now you are fully self sovereign. So you have one wallet, and you can connect to all your different apps, you'll have one balance, you don't need

So you're saying that, that the lb hub is lb hub is just a sort of a connector either to your own node or a node that's running that Albea spins up for you. So you can you can connect it either way on the back end, sort of like It's sort of like green, like a green light type node service.

Yeah, if lanes, so it's slightly different to green light, which will launch on the fly, right? It will normally it's off. But if it detects an incoming payment, it will be booted up, to receive the payment, and then all shut down again to save resources. But ours is a bit different. We, we believe that we want lightning fast payments, we want an always online service. We want to be able to receive keys in payments

So that node is that and then node is always running then.

Yes, that's that's the case. And this comes with costs, but it's part of our premium l lb Pro Plan, you would, you would basically get this for free. But you can also post lb have locally, you can you can run it on your own virtual machine or server, if you have one, you can run it as a desktop app, if you have a computer that's always online, boys, boys, you know, turned on. Or you can even run it on Raspberry Pi. So we're trying to do it as give as many options to users to

But you bet can you run virtual wallets on that similar to like ln bit?

Currently, no. But this is the next feature we're we're planning to look at. Because, as we talked about, is fundamentally two different types of users, right? One who understands Bitcoin, they can open channels, and they can manage this. Whereas another user, as you said, they don't even they barely know the difference between sets and Bitcoin, right? And they were you lightning is very difficult, right? You can completely hide the Lightning Network and

I'm just not, I'm not understanding the hub entirely, because you what I understand under an Uncle Jim or it's much funnier in America to say Uncle Tom for all bunch of racist reasons. When we say Uncle Tom hub, that means we're node, that means that there's a node, and it has channels that

It's quite similar. You can think, say you had five different podcasting apps and you would connect them to your lb heartbreak. And you can give different permissions to each app, maybe one app can send 100,000 sets per month and the different one continue to send 10,000 sets per month. But you can actually also create another app connection, which is actually not for an app, but for a new user, or your friend or your family member. And they have this connection, which then

But what do they have? Do they have their own accounting their own their own valid accounting, their own balance? Or is it just whatever's on the node?

They will have their own accounting on transaction lists on balance everything well, they usually your

your sort of take like so the person let's say I spin up, I create an lb hub and I find I'm paying for the lb hub. Then I can connect with a few friends to my lb hub and And they each get their own their own wallet, essentially, their own their own balance their own wallet, and they can connect it to their apps as they see fit. And it's sort of like, I'm I'm the host, I'm taking the responsibility for their, for their for what they do. And is that responsibility? Because

Okay, so yeah, anyone, anyone who connects your note? They, they, they have to have a certain level of trust, right? Because it's your money. They have to trust that they can actually use it. It's, if they haven't balanced, they should be able to spend it. So it's your responsibility to provide that service. But without the help, we're trying to make that as easy and straightforward as possible. Okay.

Well, that sounds like something we could do. Yeah,

yeah. This sounds that sounds interesting. I mean, I definitely want to give it a shot. I want to play with it. Yeah,

I mean, my brain hurts. Yeah, makes my brain hurt. I mean, it's, we're just trying to, to provide a bridge and provide a way to make it easy for someone who has pod verse to just say, get a wallet, click this button, you've created a wallet, now you need to fund it. And we're okay with providing that for for an interim period. Because I certainly like the idea of where you're going, where everyone gets their own node. And but I just think that's going to take

Cool. I think like, we are definitely working on the same thing, right? So we just need to make sure that our bases at Alveus is right, it's fine. So that's why we now need to invest a lot in like technical development, and then can really see how we can lower the bar step by step and make sure people have a great great onboarding experience there. And that I think that's that will be a killer feature that Olin mentioned.

Is that is that a live product? I'll be hub right now, or is that something that is still in development?

Um, so Sam is using it. Oscar, from fontainhas using it. James I onboarded. James and truly Costello reasonably that means we are slowly rolling it out, step by step. And get every every week new users on board. So everybody's happy to, to sign up and and try it out. Now. It's just not yet like publicly launched and no big boss made around that.

Excellent. So Dave, sounds like you need to be onboarded. Brother. Yeah,

onboard me, bro.

You need an onboarding. Just one more thing, just to clarify. If us users have a code that they have received, then they can or cannot open the kit. There's no possibility for us users to receive an Albu wallet as we used to know it anymore, correct?

That's correct. But they can create an account with an invite code and we help them to get on our behalf.

Right, which, which means they they they have their own node. Exactly. Yes. Okay. That's it. So, okay. All right. I mean, I think we've gotten somewhere.

Yeah, I mean, that's Yeah, I think so. I think we have the Yeah, I think we just need to be on boarded to lb. Hub and just start to play it because this is what this is. What I wanted to do with the breeze SDK is is get on boarded onto onto the breeze SDK and see if we could try to sandbox a solution to show the app developers what to do. And then, but then Roy said that it was just debris SDK was just not a good fit because of the channel, the channel, the ROI, so that

As sounds awesome, let's do that.

Okay, yep.

So somehow we can hopefully create a solution, that it's interesting that Oscar is doing that, too. I like that. We can find a solution that will maybe allow podcast index to provide wallets for a while to app developers. Dave? Is that what I'm hearing you say if we can figure out the hub thing?

Yeah, maybe? I mean, it I think, I think really, it's just an exploratory thing on our part. I mean, we can definitely host some wallets. I mean, we did it with their Ellen, you do lol? Hey, yeah. For two years, we could definitely host some wallets. But then really, if we can just like that would be the sort of the learning experience to then figure out how to teach other people how to run sort of community. No hopes? Oh, yeah, definitely. And, and let us get a feel for what the you know,

I mean, I can totally see it for on the incoming side, I can see like the Costello's who are onboarding artists. And I can see them running an lb hub for their artists, I can totally see that. Yeah, make that makes a lot because you know, they'll have 1050 100. I mean, I don't know how many artists they'll have. That I think is fantastic. It's really, it's really just how do we keep the how do we keep the other apps interesting, in the value for value space?

Yeah. So yeah, I think yeah, I think we, I think we go down this road and see and see if it'll work. Okay, because yeah, like you I mean, there's, there's multiple there's multiple apps. I mean, if it has to be everything, all this stuff has to be doable by everybody. If it's not doable by everybody, then it's just not a real solution to a problem right.

Okay, well, why don't we break for a song? Yes, I think we all need that. Speaking of value, there's a guy out there I don't know if it's a guy or a band Richard greaser which I found great name if he had good name degreaser Richard greaser and has a whole album out and the whole album is about the McDonald's value meal and and very nostalgic look at it and where did it go? And how come how come everything's so

I remember the day morning a simple treasure in a fast food. McDonald's dollar menu oh how you mine. A cheeseburger fries and a small Sundew joins us for that. shader in a syllabaries may not be suitable. We will go over those Global's notches knew how it feels now to practice and not feel stressed at a simple that's caused me to fail oh no How can I move on from Sony so you were a beacon when the end was me now unless searching for Jason forgot the stories you days your peace of mind fall

now I realize it is entirely possible that was completely created by AI I'm not sure

think it's more than likely I

know the odd I mean everything is auto tune these days but I don't I'm not sure I've heard a lot of AI music that never that never has this has better structure than most for sure. So I'm not sure.

I don't know. History

pretty soon we'll just have aI music being played by AI disc jockeys and we'll all retire. Oh, yeah, just keep the sentence flowing baby. Just keep it flowing.

At that point is just over.

Ever everyone says his AI in the in the boardroom. But I don't know. How do we know?

What do we want to do? We want to go down. Do we want to talk about Elon address real quick? Since we have Yeah.

Yeah, we have the boys on Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Roland, are you up for a little discussion about Elon? Lightning address issues? Sure.

All right. He's excited, Dave. He's really raring to go. He's in the saddle.

You're Fired up? I can tell you're excited. So, so here's the here's the issue. Let me explain to you I don't know, are you just for purposes of understanding here? Are you familiar with the way that the value block? The value XML is described in an RSS feed?

vaguely, I mean, I say that I've set up a couple of tests podcasts, but it's been a while. So.

Okay, so there's a values in the XML, there's a value tag, and that tag has children, which are value recipient tags, this specify the addresses of the nodes where the keys and payments are going to go. So in the end, each one has a split amount, beaten? Yeah, it goes like that. So the what the difficult what Oscar proposed was that in is that, instead of explicitly declaring the, the, the lightning node ID and the value recipient tag, that we would instead use a lightning

I don't think the structure is too important, whether it's multiple well known files are one one file with a list of options. But both I think is a good idea, future proofing, right. So that when you have this set up, like applications can, can try to pay with one of the supported

So you so you think do you have an opinion on whether or not and whether or not it should be something like a cuz here's the here's the difficulty I see. I can see it both ways. Like, on the one hand, it's really nice to have one place to check all the different payment that all the different payment methods where you can say, okay, I can pay you in these three potentially four different ways. But then also,

But this will take years to happen, right?

For years.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I guess that's I guess that's it.

There you go. Dave years, we're early brother. We're early in the process. We're very early.

Well, I guess you're right. I mean, it. It's because you're, you know, here's the there's, this ended up being a can of worms. It's like, once I started looking at the structure after this new thing. I'm like, Well, this sort of, if you start specifying, and if you stop spending, start specifying an options file, URL in the page value recipient tag, then all of a sudden, the key send the method equals key send in the value tag parent, doesn't really make any sense anymore.

is why God created the weekend Dave. Stuff like this. Sure. Final thing for Morrison rolling now. I know Aldi is a German company as far as I know. Moritz, you're in Switzerland. Rollin you don't even sound German. Where are you from?

Is the International Man of Mystery. No, we

need to know where are you from rolling.

New Zealand

New Zealand. I got it. You did and are you in New Zealand right now?

No, I've I've opted out. I live in Thailand now.

It makes it even better. What time is it in Thailand?

2:30am.

Brother. Oh, I wish we I'm sorry. Well, I was gonna ask you know who you guys thought was gonna win the the, you know the European Cup. The waiver is that UEFA Cup. Is that what it is? You wafer what is it? No, it's

not the way what

is it? It's the the European European

Championship exactly at national level. So of

course I'm rooting for the Netherlands obviously. How about their mon shaft? are you rooting for them? More to go on for the for the Swiss?

No, I think like the Germany had a very good start in the tournament so I'm optimistic they will they will reach the final. They

always seem to somehow it always always Germany France doesn't matter if it's football doesn't matter if it's World War one or two. It's always Germany, France for some reason. It's very weird.

I just feel like we owe Roland an apology for having to sit through this that auto tune song at 230 in the morning. It wasn't all that bad.

I actually I actually liked it. Yeah,

I'm concerned with my suck you up. I'm concerned with myself now that I liked what's going on? I want to thank Morrison rollin for for joining us. Certainly rolling so late. Really appreciate that. If you if you want to, you're more than welcome to hang out. We're just going to thank some people. These of course, are people who have also sent value to you guys, we put you in the value block. So I presume that's being received more. So you see come in. Yeah,

it's actually we put getting emails and

I'm sorry, I was a bit of cross talk. Sorry.

So yeah, I'm running the LV hub with a few public channels. So I'm receiving all these split payments and is working great. Oh, good. Thanks. Thanks, guys. Yeah, good.

Awesome.

Let me just thank the people who were who were boosting live. And of course, Sam said he comes in with 1000 SATs. And he says this discussion was so overly complex. A note podcast listener is going to understand this. Well, no. This is also the boardroom is not for podcast listeners. It's for it's for the development people. He says people don't pay for podcasting today. So if there are too many technical hoops to set up a wallet, they won't bother I

Yeah,

yeah. DS laughs with 1000 SATs this boost is a shameless promotion to hear my name mentioned Okay. On a side note, any thoughts over leaderboards similar to the art generator for the end of show mixes are having categories for the best for the big baller booster and troll of the year included in the podcast 2.0 awards. Okay, so there's no looking forward to the pod awards. He says nope, that's not going to happen. Yeah, we need to get Wallace 111 He's, he's

Now he's just rubbing it in he is he's got access to it. Yeah, he's like

Nene Nene and you and your end. We'd love to know how you're doing it brother because we just want to help everybody do this. Okay. Call McCormick 2222 It's about Tom curry gets back to work. Okay. Yes. Okay. Did you know Biden is a clone? Okay. Yeah, there you go. Nein, nein nein from Jean Everett. Thank you very much. 1948 from Sir Brian of London. He says I drove a brown Buick custom regal from Chicago to

And stop drinking Brian

6969 from Hey citizen he says please, Adams new album we need this yes, I'll work on it. Apparently I can just do AI and fool myself. Sir duck with 5000 SATs first live boost he says 10,000 from Chris. Chris last 10,000 Nice to have you guys back 10,000 chatter from pod verse. This boost Graham is being sent from pod verse app using my own node connected Albu There you go. Mary cat tooled. Mary Kate Ultra

this is this there's gonna be quite a few Roland seriously if you'd if you need to get some sleep brother knows. We're not offended if you drop out. Buzzsprout 1000 bucks

dough thank God Sakala 20 his blade on am Paula Buzzsprout keeping the engine room running. Thank you guys. Thank you so much. Appreciate that

as nice and warm. Thank you, Kevin and Tom and all the guys over there appreciate y'all. We got blueberry $360 Wow.

Sakala 20 Only Impala, the hosting companies coming in strong with the value for value. Thank you.

You need to go to Holland more often. From the blueberry team lots of internal discussions on V for V and SATs need to make it easier for listeners and podcasters we get it? They don't. They don't. They don't see we get it. They don't. So a Fiat token solution is critical. Let's not forget who we're serving here. Go podcasting.

What does he mean by Fiat token solution?

Just onboarding. Okay. Trying to try to make it easy.

Sounds like Sam Sethi has it all figured out? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, like, maybe, maybe Sam can run a back end for for the hosting companies. I mean, like,

Oh, there you go. There you go. Well, we're happy to help. We just need to understand how we can how we can fit in VSP

values service provider, who? Sir Pete weenus, RP $55.55. He says message, Adam and Dave, great work on shaping and preserving the next level of podcasting. I follow your discussions closely and have to get half I have committed to running with scissors lifestyle with our own V for V podcast called it's just a model. Here's some fun coupons.

Thank you. Thank you, sir Pete for your coupons and the bank. Yep.

We got $50 from pod verse. Thank you, Mitch. Thank you. Yeah. Jesse Anderson's and a $33.33. He there's no note from from Jesse. Jesse Hunter $10. And that was a one off. Thank you, Jesse Hunter and Kevin bass and as $5 is free says this is the monthly interest from the endowment fund. He'll

podcast co podcasting to you bro. Thank you.

And we got some boosts we got. Let me fire up the boost machine here. Oh, we got Mike dell 1701. That's a Star Trek boost. He says at this you fountain he says SM seven b not in B seven or SP seven or whatever. That's a Tod ism.

Did I say wrong? Did I say incorrectly? I

don't know. Maybe? Maybe. Andrew Grumman 2222 from the wherever app. He says thanks for inviting me to the board room. It was a blast downloaded at 10 extra times to run up the numbers.

Yeah. All our advertisers will be happy. Remember to set the automatic download on your iOS app. binned

over here comes to downloads. Mike Dale again 17 And one he says can't type today. I pass my check ride today.

Right on brother. Yes, yes. Welcome to the exclusive and rather small club of general aviation pilots.

Sir Brian have lunch and 18 444 through cast Matic says we had a good day here today calls for a bigger boost and a number you'll never fully decode V four v dot app wallets will be available for send and receive very soon.

Yeah, he's working on his own solution which incorporates it with the with an lb like API. So

he sends us videos of people like buying steak dinner in Colombia or something with with his V for V app.

Yeah, it looks. Yeah, it works.

Very slick. Randall black 2000 says through podcasts index, so through the apps through the website that's using lb says LB is driving me nuts. They need to decide the route they're taking and make it easier to onboard or off board users. Well, I think right from the horse's mouth, they have a

plan. Yeah, yeah.

10,000 SATs from Mary Oscar, also known as Oscar marry the fans and he says great to hear more the history of podcasting. What's he talking about? I have no Andrew grommet. Oh, yes. Yeah, so

if you haven't heard that episode, it's good. If you want to hear some of the early days of podcasting, the stuff that no one ever talks about? That was two weeks ago. Yes. Two weeks ago the previous one it was board mountain boardroom board meeting 182

right at 93 sets from Red Bull through breeze Oh, love breeze and seen magazine was much boost action from Brady's lately. He says I love your music. We'd love you to rebel

must have been for the song Bill Prague the

hive guy through SATs ski me through fountain he says 2000 SATs he says I just sent myself custodial hive to fountain using V for v dot app could be magic or it could be Brian no idea that it works. I

wonder if Brian is actually creating invoices you know like oh invoice here click click click click if he's if it's all automatic or if he's doing it manually.

I wonder if Bill Prague is Brian's There you go all

the count that's the question

Oh, here we go. 6969 from a citizen in pod verse. He says I don't actually care about you guys. I'm just boosting the song there you go.

Man love you.

Hey Sally, send us another 6969 He says okay, maybe I care a little bit we love you to a citizen Mac 10,000 SATs The family says sorry I missed the show live but listen to the end as a download from the air on the way to Cali regarding bands that Bitcoin please use the Embassy Suites as your Meetup location, food drink and all things how V for V works. We should have a full schedule next week. No, I wonder if Mamak mom AC oh mom in mu m. m AC I think that's the mom of Ainsley Costello

Oh my goodness. I thought that was music mama yeah music mama

Yeah. Music mama Macintosh Sasha Richards 11112 Fountain he says if we are going to consider major re architecture of P two o set streaming boosting et cetera maybe 30 minutes

Yes, another thing I gotta look into it I don't I don't I don't understand them yet.

No, I don't either. I don't either. Don't record 3333 says a rainy day admit Oh, do you already read though? A rainy day and yeah,

wrote yet by now.

Yes. Yep. Comic Strip blogger. 24,000 SATs through fountain. He says. Howdy, Dave and Adam. I like again to recommend a podcast called just two good old boys by two Texans Ben and Jean. They talk about fun stuff. Quote from the last episode. Jean. Happy Father's Day. Ben. Thank you. I would say Happy Father's Day to you but gene I'm not a father so it wouldn't be correct. Been that you know of gene. Yeah, I'm

can't wait. Yeah, that's it. That's our group. Very nice. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. While you're looking at that, I'll just read you the tally coin donations tally coin. We have closed our doors. Thanks for all the memories.

Nice. What it should say is this. We've closed our doors thank you to drips got Yes,

exactly. The only guy the only person was ever using it exactly. Yes.

monthlies, Basil Phillip $25, Lauren ball $24.20 Mitch Downey $10 Christopher hyperbaric $10 Terry Keller $5. It's silicone florist $10 Chris Cowan $5 Paul Saltzman $22.22 Derek gives this girl the greatest name in podcasting. $21 You're in Rosenstein Rosenstein? I'm not sure $1 Daymond Cassie Jack $15 Jeremy Garrett's $5 New Media Productions. That's Tom. Dollars. Thank you. Michael Hall $5.50 Timothy voice $10 Trevor Satan's lawyer $5 Do you think that's on his LinkedIn?

I hope so. Yeah.

Jorge Hernandez $5. Michael Gagan $5, Charles current $5 James Sullivan $10 cone glotzbach $5, and Christopher reamer $10. And

thank you all very much for supporting us with your value, the whole project, the podcast, everything has value for value you put back into it, what you get out of it, whatever it's worth to you support it support your podcasts index, support your podcast app support, everybody. This is how

Yeah, thanks for having us. No, really, really looking forward to that. Yeah.

And onboard Dave set to set it up because Dave is a busy guy, so enlist onboard him.

Brother day of Israel is rolling still awake? Do we get Israel and he's he's still here. Yeah. He says, oh, man, you

are a trooper. Yeah. Are you in Bangkok?

No, no, up north. Shanghai,

Shanghai, Shanghai.

may hang on.

Oh, my hog song. Okay. I think I had dinner with her once. It's nice. All right, everybody, Brother Dave, thank you so much. Thank you, everybody who jumped into the boardroom on a Saturday. We really appreciate it. We'll be back Friday with another board meeting with the participants of podcasting 2.0.

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org. For more information. Go podcast.

Squish is the right word.