Episode 180: Serial Churn

podcasting 2.0 for May 17 2024, episode 180 serial churn. Hello, everybody. It's Friday once again, time for the official, the one and only board meaning of podcasting. 10.0. Everybody, everything it all gets discussed right here. That's right. We don't talk behind your back. We are the only boardroom that doesn't have a booth at a podcast conference. If you want to know what's happened in podcasting, it's all

says I have to tell you to rip it twice. Does that mean I rip you a new one? Do

you really mean we're in quite the mood today, Dave? Oh, yeah, we're in a good mood. So we started off before we started the show, which by the way, we're live and lit every single Friday afternoon. You can listen to us live and a modern podcast app. podcast apps.com. Anyway, we're like I got a rant. I gotta read I got a rant. But I got something to say I ran out because Dave was late. He was late. And before we even start that I want to say there will be no board meeting next

Oh, well that's not bad. For the

for the K love the K love awards.

Oh, yeah, this is yes. This is the is the big the big God the God music extravaganza.

Big God music extravaganza again Alright, so what why were you late? What's your Ran brother? What's going on? What's happening? How can I help?

I've spoken many times in the past about the I'm sorry, I'm trying to put down my salami and cheese.

I wondered what I smelled. But now I know. Cheese

is my bread breath. Yeah, so I've spoken many times in the past about the about my my hatred of USB C docking stations.

Yeah, so yes, I can. Yes. And I think I've said don't be a hater. But you have not taken this advice clearly.

Okay, so I want to

only read up the hatred is I want to re up the hatred now.

Yes. So this is this is a after a couple of hours of of troubleshooting. The USBC dock. We come up with this lovely support bulletin from Lenovo. Oh,

and this was a at the day job. This was a real support ticket. uptaking

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And this, these these things are just, they're just a nightmare. Everybody you talk to these things have a limited lifespan. They're crap. Ever since they went from old docking stations you had they had a custom connector every every, every big one. Really. It was like it was like

70 penises because they knew scuzzy. scuzzy connector scuzzy.

Yeah. Frozen guard, you know, frozen garden hose type, right? Yes. Goes all proprietary. Everybody had their own dealio Yeah, but you know what they were working every single time worked. Yeah, every time USBC I have a document that is like 20 pages. That shows how all of the routing internally happens. Because what you see on the end of like when you plug in a USB C docking station, what you see on the on the end is

And ask the question, is this not essentially like a USB dongle that has no expansion ports? Isn't that kind of what this is? This

is no that's it and this is the problem. USB C docking stations modern USB C docking stations are since our Thunderbolt. Oh, they are thunder either Thunderbolt three or Thunderbolt four Oh, system boards. So these docking stations are a synth are like they have their firmware in them. They run they run software they are they are almost like a small computer unto themselves. Oh, it's

like my LED lights. Yes. Yeah. It also buzzes on your microphone.

So there are things that can happen with with these. Where, where nothing you do on the computer For itself actually, we'll fix it. You have to reboot the doc because the doc is acting, it's acting.

Acting Up. Yeah. Yes.

So the the what you see at the end of the is the USBC cord that plugs into your computer. But what's happening on the inside of that thing is your route you're actually routing, your routing, USB A USB, excuse me USB one, two and three, right, HDMI, HDMI DisplayPort potentially, if it's supported VGA

video s video tell me RGB RGB s video audio

networks, gold and Ethernet Ethernet and and and Thunderbolt potentially three and four Thunderbolt

Can you plug in your your Nintendo data glove?

In the Lord little robot, Nintendo robot big. So you're routing all of this stuff over over, you know, the small connections, number of pins. The amount of things that can go wrong with this are limitless. The so they usually always show up with video first. So like in a in a financial services environment. Three monitors is like standard standard standard. Yeah, standard minimum some sometimes four, sometimes five. You see big like trading houses and stuff they may have 10 Yeah,

are there moving parts that were or what was happening?

Hey, you tell me what does that even mean? That sounds

like it's crazy. That sounds like well you know that that monitor may have a driver update or something else may change sounds like they're building in some wiggle room for things changing external to the device.

What could possibly be inside of these things that would that would begin to trigger problems 12 months in the future.

Oh, I know that Venezuelan immigrants

each Thunderbolt doc has a has a Venezuelan inside of it, I

guess. Wow. Okay, I I feel your pain brother. I feel your pain. Yeah.

Now multiply this across hundreds of users in this you know, so it's

primarily but it's primarily the multi monitor users that are experiencing issues.

What happens is the they seem to work fine. This is like being going to industry conferences and this kind of thing that this has turned into the USBC dock podcast. But going to like industry conferences and talking to my peers. This is universal. It's not it's not anything with one specific vendor. Like evidently the Dell USB the Thunderbolt docks are so bad that like you just go ahead and budgets 12 to 18 months and they're gonna die. Like you just build that in they they they

yuck and you know that's not going to happen and the fact that it's Thunderbolt is kind of trippy is not what I thought that wasn't Apple only Dang, but I guess it's the standard. And

these dogs the old school dogs used to cost $200 Oh, these these Thunderbolt four dogs? They're $400.03 foot a three foot Thunderbolt four cable is $75 Wow,

what a gyp

it's outrageous and we're going to we're going to so tell me we're gonna have driving cars we can't we can't even get three monitors to work over USB see

self driving cars? Yes.

Well self driving cars

Well that brings me to your overview of the most recent presentation by Google at their i o event. To explain the future of the company. Yeah,

I've ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai, ai ai ai ai ai ai ai, I found the AI really useful. ai ai ai ai ai, ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai, ai, ai, ai ai, ai students ai ai vertex AI and that's the father of generative

AI toolkit. Generative, generative, generative ai, ai ai ai, there it is. Now you know what they're up to?

Like the one guy that didn't generate the AI? Is that a pretend an Indian or pretending?

No, that's Oh, yes. I heard that part of the podcast as well. The pretending No, no, that's a real a real Indian. Yeah, but before that, I need my randlett All right, go. This morning at eight o'clock. My phone goes like literally 759 I'm about to take the dog out for a walk. I'm gonna NSC. It's a 512 number. So it's an Austin number. I'm like, no, no, you're too early. So I just send it to voicemail. Come back in, actually have a call scheduled at nine and say, oh, yeah, let

Oh, no.

I'm like, Okay, I call back I get him on the phone. Now, it's clearly Sheriff's Office, just from the the sound of it. And that's legit. And then well, I mean, I'm looking at a 512 number then as a whole, I'm gonna put you on with my lieutenant. So Lieutenant be Neil comes on badge number 03156. There are two there's a warrant out for my arrest, because I have failed to appear as a grand jury expert

the you can there's an easy way and a hard way we can do this is what he's Yes,

exactly. And it's like, I'm like, well, I should probably call my lawyer. No, no, we have a maintain contact order, which means we have to stay in contact with you as you drive down to the sheriff's office. So we can process this. And I'm likely, and so this is going on now. 10 minutes. I'm like, holy moly. I'm racking my brain. I can't figure this out.

Like, so that were they using? Were they using generated voices or something? Or no,

no, no, no, no, it was it was actual it was actual let me see is this it there you go.

I mean, that was for real legit like that. So so this were these were people that had like a believable Texas very

believable, very believable. The they had the police radio in the background. It was totally I was in it. I was like, oh, man, I'm screwed.

Up. You just knew that you were gonna have to go buy $5,000 of iTunes gift card when

it was when it was when you have to go to a kiosk. Wait a minute, what is the US business? No, no, no, no, no. I'm calling my lawyer. No, you can't. You. You have to what was it? You must comply. I'm like, I comply this. But, but hey, 12 to 15 minutes. They really have me Dave. They really really have me. That's kind of scary. It's social engineering. You know, it's, it was well done. They had a script and everything. This is

so I was in on a security. Like a webinar. Not too long a webinar. Yes. Yes. It was great. And this guy's good. He does. He's a local guy. Gary Warners has named me from UAB, a University of Alabama in Birmingham. And he's, he's really good. He's been in the in the cybersecurity game forever. And wait, before it was even a thing really. And he he made a statement in this last, like the annual update from last I think

You know, there's a big disagreement about this. I believe I am Gen X 1964. September. There are some places that say you're a boomer Tina keep because she's definitely Boomer because she's 1962. And I just remind her I was the face of Generation X. You were

Yeah, I'm deaf. I'm definitely Gen X. You're You're I think you're Gen X.

Well, I know. I'm Gen X, but there's disagreement from some borderline boomers.

Are they on the council? Are they on the Gen X? Boomer council that my wife apparently Yes. You're one of us. Don't try to deny. So but he said, you know, if you if you know anybody whose baby boomer or older tell them about these things, because they are a target right now. Billions of dollars is being milked fro

Yes. Oh, older people. I've actually helped some people here. Who was going to be Oh, yeah, no, it took them to the bank and everything like Stop, stop, stop this payment. Stop this stop that, you know, ah, sad. And we've we've had, we've had we got a special thing coming up in church for these people. Oh, that's good. Because then the main thing is, in the, you know, text messages, they're the you know, that's the big, that's the big catch all so I got a text message. So that must

And in the end, the local accent and and, and, and

the police radio in the background. That was good. And it was loud. You know, like there was a dispatcher. That was quite

well, let's see this. This is in 2023 total losses reported by c three to those over the age of 62. Up to $3.4 billion.

Dude, it's a bigger industry than podcasting.

We're the wrong money with these guys.

We're in the wrong business.

Yeah, we should do how you it's it says tickets is value for value. You give me money and you don't go to jail.

You know, just kind of on that, on that tip. But where everything's going, the streamers are, are there. It's all going down. It's happening in real time right before our eyes. We you know, so first of all the recognition that no one is watching television anymore. I mean, of course there's the people watching obviously obviously some shows they'll have millions of people watching, but not 20 million.

Quick Adam, name me one television show that's on broadcast television right now.

Now the only thing I would guess is NCSI but I don't even know what the which one Special Victims Unit I couldn't know I can't name anything

at all six people in the last week that question not one of them that name one you

know, this one, they say how do you go bankrupt really slow and then it goes fast. All of a sudden this I think we're in the going fast acceleration phase. And what's happening now is the streaming companies who of course now you know, now we got to show profitability. It's not to say that Netflix isn't successful. Netflix, arguably the earliest, the quickest to the game. And they've pulled back on a lot of their a lot of the money they were putting into production.

Rebbes Lake Alliance has emerged in the intensifying streaming wars, Disney and Warner Brothers discovery are teaming up to release a brand new streaming bundle later this year. So what does this new partnership mean for the streaming landscape moving forward? We're looking at how to navigate the big picture with the Yahoo Finance playbook. And we're joined by Ken Leon, Research Director of equity research at CFRA and Jamie lovingly, third bridge sector

want to slap her but

man, I just keep getting like so amused by this discussion, because it's like this new innovation bundling, which is cable. No,

it's not cable because these bundles don't get paid per channel. That's not true finance lady PayPal

did right. But do you think that this is the way forward? And is this going to benefit the various parties who are doing it? It definitely is interesting development. And we're seeing this increasingly in this space. One thing we've been hearing a third bridge from the experts we speak with just the fact that what streamers are looking for ways to not only drive growth,

Okay, so a lot of blahdy blahdy blah, but the whole point is, they're churning cereal churn, which is great show title, actually, cereal churn, because people are doing exactly what we've heard everybody say, Yeah, I just want to see this one show. And then I'll cancel the minute I sign up and I pay my What is it now? Is it 17 $18, which is still pretty high, but I'll pay that and then if there's something else going on, I'll catch it later. Now the second guy kind of lays out the

think when you look at the bigger picture, it's really a lot of these media companies trying to figure out how can they be profitable. So the first step was reducing programming and content spending. The second was de risking, because they have no control really, of the customer. Unlike wireless, or even cable TV decades ago, you had one or two year contracts, so churn is very high, they will never release that. And also, if you look at where Entertainment has moved to events to live

it is. So basically, we're going to see consolidation Paramount is now being ripped apart, the all the parts are going to be the actually the parts are worth more than the than the whole. And the sum of the parts individually, it's going to be ripped apart is going to be you know, typical

I see. I see Eric pap fixing bugs. So. Yes. And, you know, you saw I didn't fully understand what Spotify did with that price floor change on

their bundling.

No, they said they said their Spotify Audience Network span

lowered the worst name ever. As horrible. Really? Did you just say spam what? We're just calling it spam. From now on. We're just calling it spam. The

marketing jargon here was was virtually impenetrable. But I think I figured it out. They said that when it's all got to do with programmatic delivery, like you know, stitching in the ad as you as you listen. And evidently they call it a waterfall.

Yeah, where you're at the bottom drowning.

It's a waterfall where your foots in the drain. Yeah. So they have there's like three layers to this thing. There's direct sale, or direct buy and then there's span the span Spotify Audience Network, and then there's like programmatic delivery I guess that's like we don't have anything else let's deliver a Viagra ad or something needed

Yeah, the the remnant the low level fruit the not even fruit is dried up with dried up. It's like raisins,

in a way is raisins. Yeah, it'll win it'll win the bid more often. So things are pulling from span more. And like this. You know, we aren't we we already have seen this subscription stuff. That's, that's the only way to make these things work. The advertising alone can't sustain it. It's not everywhere you look it's always which You know

not gonna last long kids use it sparingly.

But the I think we got our we ended up with a wrong idea of the way that the monetization of all of this stuff worked. Because we put your Facebook and Google, which dominated advertising in May, obviously makes make billions and billions of dollars. And so I think it left us with this idea that advertising is, is always in everywhere going to be a winning strategy for for, you know, for revenue. But

it's not, but it's not no, it

only it's only a winning strategy if you are essentially a monopoly in a business which Google is and Facebook is. Facebook is, is a is a virtual I hate this. I hate the term virtual monopoly. Yes, but they but you I think you understand my meaning and the players within the social media world. Facebook is as close to a monopoly as you're gonna get a Twitter's a, that's a joke. I mean, it's an also ran. And it Facebook, Facebook is the 900 pound gorilla. Nobody even comes close to second.

That's because they they're not really in brand advertising there. They're like the classifieds. You know, it's like, and that's starting to wane as well be you want, you want some spam, you want some bots, go and put an ad on Facebook. I mean, that's podcasting

is the anti monopoly. Ooh,

like that is showing that. You

know what I mean? They're there. It's the podcasting is by definition, anti monopoly because it is so diverse. Nobody will ever dominate. In this in this arena. Even people who have large audiences, there still only one show in a person's podcast app. That person also has, if a person listens to doesn't matter if a person listens to three hours of Joe Rogan a week. That person also has 17 Other subscriptions. Yeah. And it's net, it is absolutely the anti

Well, in addition, in addition to that, we went horribly wrong many, many years ago in podcasting, I would like to try and explain and this has come up for me recently, as I am realizing that the pitch podcasting is making is pretty much centered around a couple things right now monetization growing your show video. That's pretty much the pitch. And when we first started, okay, so when we first started podcasting,

Fan Mail fan mail, that

if he puts that if he incorporates that into a show, all of Jacksonville, Florida will send him fan mail, which is of course what Buzzsprout is located. But the idea that comments will be one way totally valid. And then Sam

Dev. Yet wonderful. You

are now it's horrible. You are I'll be out contracts is still out there. And then of course for the more advanced, you know, helipad. And the same goes for for life. You know, this is the trend people love listening to live, they just love it. And you know, what do we have? I don't even know what we have in the boardroom right now. It's like maybe what 20 People doesn't matter. It's that interaction. It's these

Oh, for sure. Totally. I don't know what it is about. Because Because you're it's no different than just looking at a spreadsheet. Like, if you get okay, it's it's the difference between if we just talking about purely financial I mean, like there's, there's, I think there's a lot more to it. It's a psychological thing more than financial. But, but let's just put it in financial terms, just for illustrations purposes.

Spread, but not sexy.

But if you're a bit if you're a sales guy, and you're getting those commission checks every month, you that's a different thing. There's something about I don't know how to explain some value

for value, I put this work into it, I got something back.

And, but it's more like the I think the difference with boosts and streaming sets is that you're getting pushed, you're getting real time communication. It feels like like if somebody turns when somebody listens to your show. Okay, here, here's a I think I'm zeroing in on this right now. Okay, so when I listen to a podcast, I can't control the show. You hit the play button. In your, in your now you've turned yourself over to the host. They're in control. You

it's important because it, and I'm saying this for our hosting company partners, they're the most stable part of the entire ecosystem. And the, you know, the amount of time and energy may be nothing for him, I don't know, but what, what Buzzsprout put into the fan mail app, I mean, I wish they would have put that that energy into, you know,

that it's madness. Yes, it's pure madness. But the

idea that you want to give somebody joy for just being themselves, I'd like to get back to that. That's what the podcast industrial complex, it kind of kind of clicked for me. I was having a couple of conversations with people. I'm like, you know, what, where do we go wrong with, you know, here's, we kind of talked about this last week, but radios main function. And I've been in radio since I was 15 years old with a five watt transmitter in my little village south of

that has a really fun hobby. It

was great fun. To the pirate radio stations. Yeah, we had 150 Watts, we were only covering Amsterdam, we called ourselves the rhythm of the Capitol, you know that we were just playing dance music, but really for a dance oriented city at the time. But to dizzy 100 in New York, even though that was you know, 50,000 watts at the Empire State Building 50,000 Watts, you know, who did a flame thrower, who? New York. He was still local radio. I was talking about the local events about the

to please do a morning show. For greater Fredericksburg weather.

There's a lot going on in Fredericksburg and we only have one weekly newspaper. And it's very politically motivated and it's very left which is you know, contrary to a lot of live around here. But it's

per se that pollen counts up to 2500. Today you'll be careful out there. There's

a lot going on in Fredericksburg that is not discussed that there is no end all the all the towns and cities really have as a Facebook page where everyone yells at each other and is useless. So

college it just a local college

Thank you even just a local call in show. So I've given myself the the edict to lift 1000 voices across America. I haven't figured out what that means yet, but I'm working on it. Because and it's actually you know, this guy, Fernando. Hold on a second. Let me grab this

fernet. Feta net, Fernando.

Fernando is Where'd that come from?

Did that come through?

What was that? Sorry. That's that was

the Bluetooth does work actually.

I was looking I don't think I put that into the into helipad. Again,

I forgot that I looked up the road caster the Bluetooth. Okay.

So he so he's a kid who he came to America from Brazil with 100 bucks in his pocket. And, and so he has a full time job. But he started this company audio sigma. Let me see if I can find the audio signal here. Sigma. Yeah, here we go audio sigma.com. And actually, Todd turned me on to be and so you know, we got to talking. And so he's now built this thing called, Oh, these are pretty Yeah, the pod mobile. And it was all analog, basically transistor base. And now he's

Todd, I love I love to deliver Todd has taught

us voice that is I mean, if you would go to a radio station, they laugh you out of the building that voice No. But that's what makes it so beautiful. And we've had these guys who do stuff live Todd and Rob they do stuff live. And even when they're boring me to death, I can listen to him live. It's exciting. I can send a boost. I can I can rag on him I can. This is where we need to get back to with podcasting. And we need to just take a breather on this incessant non stop advertising

for her. Yeah, that's, that's steep. Whereas this, if

we just learned to be a little bit better, you know, by doing it, go ahead and stumble and make mistakes. This is this was the I have to credit my ex wife with my ex ex wife my first way when I was just starting out 19 years old is on television for the whole country is doing radio, but the television mainly, you know, and we do the show was once a week, half the country watch and we'd be watching at home. And I'd be I can't believe I flubbed that I hate. Like I'm mad at myself

there, they send my daughter we had this exact conversation with my daughter last night so she's, she's in a band. And she they had A gig at an art auction in this it was basically like a just a background gig for these high high dollar art auctions at this local gallery. And people were drinking and stuff and it was his her and four of her buddies and they played the see they played boozer made his base made for walking

as Nancy Sinatra classic. Do

they play creep by Radiohead.

Creep I'm doing a little

they played well, what's the the Jets?

Nana nana nana da. Well, I found out that one

day didn't their dad and

dad. were sucking really bad now that 123 Take a look at me. That's the one.

Yeah, yeah, I can't remember they played that one. I can't remember the name escapes me. But they they played a nice little set. And so after it's over, she's like, you know, she's like, Oh, I messed up. Mr. Fong crepe. I didn't. I didn't come in at the right at the right. Part. And I was like, we're like, you're, you're. That's that's the beauty here. Are

you gonna be my girls language? Here we go. Yeah. Yeah, who just hit us with a baller boost. Throw on a second. Someone hits with the baller boost. Hello, phantom power media. Dave, this is phantom power media. Hello, Dave, tell your daughter to apply for our bands at Bitcoin stage in July. It's an ad. It's a native ad.

I will I will deliver this message

I'm gonna remove it. If you guys don't stop that.

Miss, she'll have to, she'll have to pay for cover band or a cover music rights. Right? Mechanical

rights. Right? Yeah, if she does that one. Yeah. But, you

know, we're telling her like, Hey, this is your you're playing with a band, you've only been playing for the band for a couple months. This is part of this is how you learn by failing. Yes, you know, you learn you, you you go out you. Because that's another thing with

auto channel. That's another thing that screwed everything up. Oh, so

much giving up control, when that's another time that you give up control. And that's one of the things that makes playing live with a band. So exciting. Yes. And Eric peepee literally said the exact same thing. Same Time I Saw that's what makes it exciting is that you don't know what's going to happen. And you're putting your own performance in the hands of other people. Because the drummer may screw up. And you know what, it's your job to save that to save the drummer.

did I ever tell you what we would do with when we had a coup, we had our show on Friday night. And I was I was the NG I was 15. I was the engineer. So what you do is you go before the show started, you'd hand out request forms, which are just pieces of paper. I was 15. So that's 45 years ago. And, and they would fill it out. And then we take those back

you already did in a in the the now lost to history, the last episode of podcasting 2.0 That you did a you did a request a music request show. And that was arena over boosts.

That was the most highly boosted episode ever.

Yeah, ever of all time. Yes. And this like so there's no you now have in 2.0 ABS you can now do live streams and boosts and you can get that's there you go. You have you have a call in request show right there. So I think you know, the other thing like is my daughter, my oldest daughter, she's 22. She you're the last to face her work show. Yeah, that's right. We she's in she's in communications, like, mass communications. And so she was told recently, basically, that I

down. You know, chat, if just the post in the boardroom, you said you just described homegrown hits. You've never heard that show. It's exactly right. Also, the no agenda stream which is now that's been around so long that that's really become its own entity. And that is 24 hours a day. But people literally tune in to hear Darren Oh, on Thursdays and Sundays they tune in to hear nick the rat on

I don't see why these local reporters for local stations couldn't just strike out on their own and do and do a local oriented podcast. And

we'll see we'll see some of that. But a lot of that a lot of that culture and attitude is not easy to break. I mean, the idea that you're going from we'll be right back after these messages to begging for money grifting you know, all the stuff that gets thrown at your head. That's a very tough change for most people. Now I wanted as a part of this since we have the Phantom the Phantom people in the nmpa National Music Publishers Association sent a very damning letter to Spotify

Is that the case? Honestly, no. So I feel so ill equipped to deal with something like this, that I feel like I need somebody else to just give me the wording to put

to put I'm gonna, I'm gonna carry this, I'm going to carry this. I'm going to carry this the

I think the lat to me where it fell off a cliff was all of a sudden it took a turn into. Yeah, and we need to be able to block certain apps from being able to play certain music. And I was like, Whoa, I mean that

the Exactly. So the, the way I don't carry this Dave and I will I'll get the consensus and everything. So there's a couple things one, I in this is the main thing we have to understand. If you have an RSS feed, and you have an enclosure, and that enclosure is an mp3, there is no difference between it being dry, dred Scott's ISO, a feed, no agenda,

So you think they're gonna start taking down stuff that's not even guaranteed? There's not even related to this, you know, an

example our church which I believe so our church has a worship team, which as we all know, is Christian for band. So they were worship teams. And the worst is

to drummer have the plexiglass you better believe it?

Yes, you better believe it. Yeah, he's got the cage. So the worship team licenses music, from you know, there's a whole industry, and it puts the words up on the screen. So everybody can sing holy, holy, holy, and hands in the air, like, we just don't care. And it's license, they pay rights. And those rights are also for use in recordings on on

So in and the license in the feed is a signal. Yes, yes. This is this has this has been covered.

Covered. Yeah, it's just it's just like Creative Commons. Except, you know, we do it under this this particular license. Now. I know that we're going to run into all kinds of problems down the line and disagreements, et cetera over music itself. I can't deal with that right now. All I can deal with is the inclusion of a remote item. That part I want to shore up so that when when the Exodus takes place, people know

shall over.

We will we will. So remote item license is what I'm looking at. Okay, remote, so you can use this content no matter what it is at as a remote item. Here's my here's my my baseline requirement. And the technology actually handles most of it. The technology handle, you know if it needs to be surfaced what this is, you know, just like when I look at I'm at podcast Guru, I look at the sidestream music podcast by the way, Cody's a great great episode this week was music Tony Hawk screwed up

remote item license actually protect against

protects against nothing. It's an agreement the EU. It's just like a Creative Commons. If you really want to take someone to court, you can create and I've, I've, I've proven the Creative Commons copyright works in court for that very reason. But it still comes down to a basic understanding and agreement like everything, it's only as good as the paper it's written on.

And this is

this wood. It's not protecting against it really doesn't protect you against anything except someone using it and not passing on any payment to you. But we have no cops. We're never gonna have cops to go out there. But you can say, Hey, man, this is under the remote item license. So would you please make sure that you put that into your feed properly? That's really all that you can do in

that, so so it's a matter of if you're going to use this, you need to use a remote value split.

Yes. And to answer cotton gins question. Yes, the splits. The splits accomplish this, but it's it gives you a little bit of backup with a legal document and I think we should have a minimum requirement and the minimum should always be baseline 5050. But as you can say, You know what I'll I'll say I'll settle for or do I want 90%? Now, can you stop someone from doing it? No, you'd have to bring action

keeps you from built. I think I'm understanding this now because it was just, I think, kind of what you're saying is it keeps you from having to build essentially the exact same structure that already exists exactly. Again, which which has which will have the exact same problems as the other system course. It's centralized and, and punitive. Yes.

Very punitive. Now, if you think you're gonna get rich by anyone thinks they're gonna get rich, by all means, don't have your music played on podcast, don't get it played anywhere, you know, put it into iTunes and have fun. Good luck. Absolutely. If you want to have an audience, and you want to have value returned to you. That's why you're with us. Yeah, there's not enough room in the world for all the people to be successful and making you know, quit your job money. Look at

There's no there's not there's not a the Creator middle class is just, it's never going to be a thing. No. Well, I

don't think you can I think you know, touring I think you can do a lot. You know, a lot of people have a lot

at this, this actually sort of tend sort of tangents into a kind of wanted to talk about that Jack Dorsey interview. Did you read that? I did. The one in pirate wire.

I did. I read the whole thing. You bet.

That he said this has some stuff in there. That was pretty pretty noteworthy to me. I think they're all so let's see. The you talking about this? It kind of reminded me of, of him. He talked some about blue sky. He says, here's one thing he said. He said what is the anti Twitter? He's talking about? Blue Sky says what what happened is people started seeing blue skies, something to run to away from Twitter. It's the thing that's not Twitter. Therefore, it's great. And blue

I find that to be true. This is why I liked Bitcoin no CEO. Right? This is why I like RSS no CEO. But

do you think that that's is that always the case, though? And I'm gonna bring this back around to what we're talking about

tell you why I think it's always the case because it's never been the case. Bitcoin Bitcoin was the first for me, even though I've come to appreciate RSS equally when you have something that is truly just a format or a protocol, either way. And I and to a degree, I think activity Pub is that as well. These are the things that are being implemented and used by people because they can, because they don't need to pay a developer fee or do any of this stuff.

And now and when you're talking and he started, he started talking about licensing fees, and these guys, NAD that's understand that. But is like blue sky doesn't have Hold on.

I didn't talk about a licensing fee. But you mean in regards to the music stuff?

No, no, I'm talking, you said, you know, royalty like fees for implementation. And like developer

like API access developer, you have to toolkit and all this kind of stuff. But

that's see that's in that's where I'm, that's, that's the interesting issue here is blue sky is a published protocol. You can implement it yourself just like you can activity pub. It's a it's just an it's an open specification. And in that sense, it's no different than noster. You know, but he has, he's saying he has a problem with it.

Okay, well, can we separate a couple of things because I also see stuff in the boardroom being discussed. There's a difference between a protocol and the implementation. So when I say activity piled right away, yeah, but there's all kinds of lib tardes are Mastodon Mastodon is not activity, pub nostre. The Social Network is not Nasir the protocol to see the the the mistake, the big mistake of

See, okay, so he says to backup at the second he says, he says in another prices. So what if we created a team that was independent to us, he's talking about when he was at Twitter that built a protocol that Twitter could use and then build on top of, then we would wouldn't have the same liabilities because the protocol would be an open standard, like

think there's a difference between Okay, let me take mercy because I hear what you're saying. I hear what he's saying. And I think he's incorrect in some things. I do to Twitter started as an RSS based system. Where and that's why that failed all the time, because they tried to centralize RSS, where if they came out of Mike, the first term was microblogging. So we all had blogs. And it was kind of a groovy system, because we had a product called Google Reader,

more in podcasting index dot social is more like just a big version of GitHub discussions. Yeah, yeah. Oh,

yeah. A little less stringent, I think but yeah,

it's very, it's just so hyper specific to one to kind of one topic that it keeps some of the and and your moderation on the back end. Keep some of that away.

So what Dorsey's mistake is, in my opinion, this he is equating free speech and censorship resistant speech with a social network. No, the hard No, because it's not it's a crap show, as people arguing, then, you know, it's like comments, comments, depending on how you on how they're displayed, even that determines the product of something that can be censorship resistant. So podcasting is censorship resistant. And it's

Yeah. Well, I think I think and I think that's, I think that's where I'm struggling with what he's saying and where I disagree with him is you can have, you can have open protocols that are developed by private companies. I mean, that's just the protocol itself. I mean, it's take the iTunes namespace was open, we're all allowed to use it. It's not like the it's not like the USBC. Right, but you can't get one kangaroo.

But it holds everybody back. Because I like the podcast namespace. Where there's no, there's no, there's no other incentive other than just to keep the servers

They said because, okay, he says, He's talking about Blue Sky says it was the anti Twitter. And he's talking about how why he left blue skies. So he deleted his account. He left blue sky. He says it was the anti Twitter people were literally running from Twitter to blue sky. And that's not a way to build something successful, sir. So he says,

but they weren't running from they weren't running away from Twitter to blue sky, the protocol. They were running to the product, blue sky product. Yeah.

And so he talks about surviving. And this is where it this is what really, this is where I'm bringing it back around a little bit because he says, he says, All that said, I really respect J she's the blue sky. As CEO, she was under a lot of pressure to survive. Yeah. And he's talking about, you know, when they started doing moderation and this kind of thing. It it's like he says, he says it's such a crazy thing.

because sent to be censorship resistant, there has to be zero financial incentive. And by definition, if you have a company, you're going to have financial incentive one way or the other.

And, and I want this idea, he said that she was under a lot of pressure to survive as a company. I think you said it fine, earlier. But I mean, just to state it more clearly. Let's set a goal to never try to survive as a company.

No, we actually our goal is to destroy ourselves that yeah, that's even better. That's the best goal ever.

If podcast index dies, they just dies. I was

talking to someone today. And you know, who want to use the podcasts index as a back end? And which, you know, a lot of a lot of people in this boardroom do. And I think because there's a relationship, and there's several years of history, now, people know what, you know, know, us know, how we operate, know what we do and what we don't do. And they trust us, there's a trust, there's a huge trust factor there. And I don't think we've ever violated that trust. And I don't know,

it, to podcasts and to 1.2 point oh will survive because it doesn't need any money. Right? The indexes, podcasts index does need money. And if and if the market determines it should die, then

it'll die. That's fine. It's not gonna, it's not gonna. And

here's why. And here's what happens that the day that the day that that does happen, I cut everything down to the bone. We can run, we can run just we can run core services for about $300 a month. And, you know, with with, with

restricted restrictions on API access, I'm

sure right, yeah. And that'll and that'll take along for a long time. Maybe

we just put out a database every week. I don't know. It could be any number of things. We could

do that for I could do that paying for it myself out of my own wallet. So the unknown I'm not worried about that the it's just we're you know trying to survive as a company and like Keep it keep yourself from dying. I mean, that's where all the bad stuff starts. You know, that's that's yeah, that's where things start to always go wrong. Yes,

that's exactly right. It's always goes wrong. Yeah,

so I'm just like, you know, the world the world moves on things go away. So if we are you know, if for some reason, the the economy just completely The tanked and everybody's in the funding for the index data. This one we'll move on. But, you know, he, he said something else about brand advertising. He said, But this is this. I do agree with him. He says, I think the core critical sin was choosing the advertising model to begin with brand advertising is not like direct

that's right. These are and that was to satisfy the initial investors and you go all the way back up the chain.

He said, we needed a model, Facebook's model was really good. So we came up with an ad program and ran with it. And I came back to the company a year after the IPO, and we were seeing a decline in growth. And that manifested in the decline in ad revenue. So our first focus was to rework the product. So we were growing again. And then second was to get off this

in that interview, he also says that it was easy for Elon to fire half the company, because half the company was in sales. You know, and all and trust me when I say that the largest military contractor in the world, Elon Musk, because that's what he is looking at his real businesses. His mission is not to give you freedom of speech is just the cost of doing business for him. By the way, he's giving you freedom of speech, not freedom of reach. That's also in that

It here's the quote you were talking about. He says it was a brand advertising business and a brand advertising business needs a huge sales staff. Over 50 to 60% of Twitter employees were in sales. Yeah,

there you go. There you go. But, but But make no mistake, this is not about Ilan trying to give you freedom of speech. No, no, no, no. By the way, can I just do a quick namespace thing here? Oh, yeah, sure. Well, I'm not going to play the jingle. Leslie Leslie has been emailing me. We got a long distance dedication from Lesley Lesley says that she is working on audio books. And she has a request for the season

I think that's a neat idea.

I think it's an interesting way to look at it. And we were just because she says you know, I can't afford to have a new RSS feed for every single audiobook. So you gotta

get people to subscribe to. Yeah. Because that should just be an attribute on the optional attributes,

optional attributes. So optional image and title I think is what she's specifically asking for. And I said we already have titles and titles we have but she wants art. Do we have because I looked at it. Are you sure we have title?

We have name you can name a season or you can name a season. Like as names. Let me go to the GitHub brief thoughts on point o season man

that James Kerguelen his podcast namespace.org Sure pops up at the top of the OGS now I liked that let me see because I have season

it's the name attribute.

Okay let me see

in the examples like podcast season Yeah,

yeah yeah name equals yes name. So episode art

Yes. So we just need an image URL attribute and

hosting companies apparently are still only offering the old iTunes namespace I guess the number the season yeah for the season number but the people want names and name title and image

so I think we shouldn't want it to get against people what they will go on it there's

a customer to customer customer waiting for you right there. Podcasting 2.0 podcast we deliver customers to you. You're gonna play a song. Oh yeah, let's do that right now.

Thank you for reminding write this up as a as an issue on GitHub while you're playing while I'm playing the song.

Okay, good. I think I got this one from either the Phantom music power hour I got it from the side street music podcast another banger for a Friday everybody Tony Salamone with red light of podcasting live

on offense to the sky affair face first into the concrete. Logging into my brain changed and shaped? Supernatural it's the days Baby

Tony Salamone red lights podcasting. 2.0 if you boost if you didn't boost go back, rewind boost. Tell him you heard it on podcasting. 2.0 That's a good one. That's a great song. I love that track.

Add an image href attribute to the season tag for SC Have

you got it in? Alright, you nailed it, I

get it in, I got it. That's

how we write one song. And we've updated the namespace Beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. I love it. Cool. Good. Anything else for the board meeting here?

I got some stuff that we can wait. We always push

every now next week, there's no board meeting because I'm on the road. I can't do it next week. So that's true that I need to do is I'd rather go long today. And then

that's alright, I've got I didn't get much accomplished this week, I'd planned on getting the resolver built for the I didn't get much of a chance to code this week. But I want to get the that we need a resolver for translating a key send addresses? Oh, you know, so that you can look up like, David Get out b.com and convert it back to a to a note Id we need that. But I want to make it where apps like cast ematic can just send one request for a whole bunch of addresses,

gone two weeks. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sorry, everybody. And Alex is working

on a top secret project for us. So. Yeah. Put for pod payments.

Do you put them under NDA? Indie. So we can't talk about it. So we can't talk about it. And yeah, it'd be fun,

but sign the document. Here, Alex on this. I know what

you'd say sign this. Yes. I was just as I was playing that song. I'm just I'm just like jamming out to the song. I remember because the last episode, when you lost power at the office, and I played tracks for two or three hours. That was more fun. I had just because we've been talking about I've been reminiscing My mind has been going back and forth in history. That was more fun. For me as a music disc jockey than any shift I ever did on Z 100 The biggest radio station in New

You don't even have Buzzsprout fan mail.

Let's, let's thank a few people, shall we? Let's use our own fan mail here. We have lots of live booths that came in 3438 from Billy Bones. says thank you for the boardroom meetings. It makes me excited for podcasting. 2.0 Well, you're welcome. And you're a part of it. Billy Bones. We're all part of the Billy Graham anonymous 3333 We got Mike Dell 1701 hamvention booths from Dayton Ohio. 70 threes, keto eight Lima

That's right is that the is like the NAM when you're Nashville Nashville sound when

you're perfect. Last night, this is another another writing on the wall. So we were going to tune in to our favorite show. Cheers. We're on season nine, we're almost done.

Oh, you're close.

We've been binging. And so I pop open, because you know, you can get it on Paramount plus through Amazon, whatever. And right at the top, oh, there's the American Country Music Awards. Live on Amazon. So we pop it, you know, it's like, okay. And it was just uncomfortable to watch. It was so because it's so like, structured and you know, they have ads, of course. And so it's all tight on a timeline. It's unnatural. You know, I love Reba McIntyre. But, you know, she's

You know, I hear songs. Sometimes I'll ever and honestly Taylor Swift's catalog is like this. You just know that in five years minimum AI will be able to recreate songs this dinner just exactly like that. They sound no different. They're just like, like vacuous. Couldn't

do it already. You can do it already. And there's no love. There's no soul. It's soulless. Yeah,

there's, do you know what's, you know? What is it? Well, so we've been rewatching X Files.

Yeah, yes. You're done with the with the musicals. You're onto X Files now.

Now we're intermixing we're mixing it up. Now. We've heard we've been watching musicals too. But do you know what's great about those old shows from 80s 90s? You don't see any computers anywhere?

It's all analog.

That's right people people's desks have like pens and paper and a phone

Sam Sam Malone in cheers has a little black book with all those babes all those babes in it? Yes.

All the babes so true.

It's awesome. Blueberry 77 777 member berry booths for Dave Oh, then we had the phantom power media 10,000 SATs we read that one Dave tell your daughter to apply for bands at Bitcoin stage in July. Good idea. Eric peepee was sent the boob boost which did come through 808 CELTA Crayon 777. Howdy boardroom Dave don't get me started on docking station firmware. Weekly we are updating those because they are well past

we got a new subscriber $10 a month from Timothy voice well then

haven't used that one in a while. You've been deep fried

midribs kid right?

Yes it is.

That's a little drip this dribbling. We got a Z that's our only one off Pay Pal this week but we guess boosts get Steve Wilkinson aka CG works. striper boost 7777 through cast ematic skillet boost. Maybe we can get a John Cooper screen skillet

boost. That's our semi striper boost. Yes. Okay.

We got Andrew Gromit. No 2222 Road ducks hello and wherever app nice this top secret app I've

ever tried that thing out. It's amazing. It's basically wherever Yes, basically a framework of every everything that we have in podcasting. 2.0 just smashed into one web app.

We're gonna get him on the show, do you? Yes, of course.

Of course. Of course. Andrew, you're up, bro. You're up. You're on. You're gonna be on the show. I can't wait to catch up with him. I can't wait. We got some we got stories a bit. You hear stories that I have forgotten? No. In fact, I guarantee you he has stories that I've forgotten. That'll be a good one. Let's get him on.

Okay, we got Andrew Andrews on deck. He says he says this rocks heard on Podcast, episode 179.

Yes. And Andrew Thank you. He's got everything set. You know, the wherever app booths come through, and I can see what song it was for and I think he I don't know that that yeah, has the reply function working which is great. I love that too. I love replying to boost i Every morning I come and say oh, can I reply to this? Oh, can I reply and because it's split Usually I'm sending people back more than I received.

You're losing money.

I'm losing money on it, but I love it.

To 237 That is the number of unread emails I have in my podcast index mailbox. All

right, I'm plugging along, brother. I'm taking care of most of them when I can. Oh, yeah.

I'll say Jacob J, K, ob 1234. Booths through pod verse, he says, great tunes. Thank you, Jake. By

the way, the the update ability of the dashboard. Now the control dashboard is great, because now I can change someone's Feed URL

that's working for you. Yes,

yes. And now, if the if the feed is already in there double, you have to resolve that first. I've even done a couple of successful merges, which did my head and well did my head and because I'm like, What's merging into what you know, like, I'm merging the wrong way. Oh, restore, reset. Okay. merge them back the other way. All right. There we go. Undo Ctrl Z. is great. I'm able to I'm actually able to do a lot for people. So I feel quite powerful with the capabilities I have.

It will I'll continue to refine that. It's still rough.

Give me Give me root access. Give me RM dash RF. Yeah, I don't I've actually done that. No, yes. Back what own what folder? Okay, back in the onramp days now. Something similar. Here's what I did.

So wait, they get tilde dummy. Somebody in onramp gave you root access to anything?

Oh, yeah. No, I had root access to everything. So we had a son with a Unison five maybe. Spark station. Spark station. Yeah. And Neuromancer was the machines name, I remember it well. And so there was a ragtag, we had like one client, and we were just trying to do stuff. And, and, you know, I was trying to figure something out. And so I go in, and I'm on the machine, right? So I have root access on the machine, that I'm seeing all these errors being thrown. And I'm like,

used to work at an insurance brokerage in it. And we ran a big as 400 system. This is a this is 1000. Person. Company. Yes. 400. Man classic. Millions and millions and millions of dollars of insurance premiums going through this company. And then all the night everything ran as a batch job as 400 to print all the debt, all the premium notices and all this kind of stuff. The COBOL we do in COBOL? No is RPG? Yeah, is the native language on is 400. So it was said the we had a new

And I'm like, what did you think was gonna happen? Fantastic. Ah, Dave, there's another podcast in here for us, ma'am. Yes. tales from the trenches.

Magnolia mayhem, do 7777 to fountain Magnolia mayhem says there's already a good number of audiobooks on our set. That's podcasting. Yes, there there are, that's for sure. Mostly creepy pasta stuff like Tales from the gas station. Several productions of Bourassa last known position etc. but it's a foot in the door. I wish I could think of some non horror examples. But outside of that I just have custom RSS feeds on my NAS for my own audio book ribs. It's pretty easy. Yeah, either

It's a good band name.

Yes.

Not everybody with creepypasta.

See, Jean been 2222. Hey, Jean to cast magic. He says, I think Dave is right about the K God. K God feed being a podcast l feed. But do any apps actually support podcast l playlists? They

will? They will, they will. They will. Because that that project will that will happen. Somehow that's going to happen. Someone's going to do if it's not me, it's going to be somebody's going to happen. Sam Sathya also sent me a very thoughtful email with all kinds of ideas about that. I'm still processing everything. He thinks that should be the publisher feet. I'm thinking the podcast so I think the list is the way to go. But we're working on it. We're working on it. There's

do stuff, see what works, and then go yep, yep. Yep, comic strip blogger, the delimiter. Here we go. 23,000 SAS through fountain CSB says, howdy, David Adam. I'd like to recommend a podcast about important things in life, literal quote from the last episode. Quote, I am so happy with my new exercise regime, also called having a job. I don't know if I'll let you know if I can see my junk in the

Devora divorce. Darren O'Neill always does the Rock and Roll pre show complete copyright violation before every it's the copyright or copyright violation show before every no agenda live show. And John was ragging on him. He says Darrell, I'm like Wow, man. The guy has been doing this for years and you still know his name. You call him Darryl now instead of Darren. So that's what I think we should just in the knife that we should play commerce or bloggers jingle. We haven't

comic strip.

Comic Strip,

Comic Strip, strip. Comic Strip. Comics jam comic strip.

Classic has been around for 15 years that that jingle probably gets

the monthlies. Alright Terry Terry killer $5 Thank you, Terry. Silicone florist. $10 Chris cow and $5 Damon Cazal Jack $15. Yarn, Rosenstein. $1 Derek J. Vickery, the best name and podcasting. $21. Jeremy gerdts. $5. Michael Hall $5.50. and New Media projections. That's Todd and Rob $30. Go

thank you all very much. You know, I read somewhere I think tally coin. Did they shut down the tally coin shut down?

No.

You wouldn't know because nothing ever comes in through tally coin. So we wouldn't know. That's right.

If a tree falls in the woods, nobody's around to hear it. And

we'll tally coin have a receipt. Nope. They won't. Hey, good board meeting everybody. I feel like we we fix the we saw a lot of stuff once again. That's a board did you who's doing the meeting minutes?

Somebody's got it. Somebody's

got it. My

name. And Mike's got it.

Yeah. All right. Brother. Have a great weekend. Dave.

Yeah. Have a good trip to Nashville. Yes.

Yes. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it's going to be a lot of fun. Okay. boardroom Thank you very much for being here. Once again. We'll be back in two weeks for another probably extended edition of the podcasting 2.0 podcast See you then everybody.

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcasts index.org. For more information, go podcast.

Podcasting

is the anti monopoly