Episode 177: KatGPT - podcast episode cover

Episode 177: KatGPT

Apr 26, 20242 hr 51 min
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Podcasting 2.0 April 26th 2024 Episode 177: "KatGPT"

Adam & Dave discuss opportunities of federating podcast apps and deconstruct the demise of NPR

ShowNotes

We are LIT

Spotify 25% bundle scam

Inside the Crisis at NPR - The New York Times

Custom emoji on PCI.S

Dave Winer not happy with ActivityPub

Open Podcast API specification documentation

Social-Interact at channel level

Wire Ready and LIT discussions

Would love to wrappify the irc stuff people have been making

Is Adding Video the Future of a Successful Podcasting Strategy | Audio and Video Podcasting with Rob Greenlee

Alby NWC lightning?

PodcastIndex Dashboard

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MKUltra chat

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Last Modified 04/26/2024 14:33:47 by Freedom Controller  

Transcript

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, podcasting two point over April 26 2024 Episode 177 Can GPT Friday again hello everybody how you doing? Welcome to podcasting. 2.0 This is where we discuss everything that's really happening under the hood in podcasting, podcasting. 2.0 everything that we got going on a podcast index.org podcast index dot social, Learn more at podcasting to.org We are the only boardroom that has bleachers and beanbags. I'm Adam

curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country. And in Alabama, the man who can move tags from items to channels and back again, say hello to my friend on the other end one only Mr. De Jones.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Did you send in our payment? Our payment? Yeah, for the A for IAB membership.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

We're compliant, bro. What do you mean? I don't I don't. We don't have to actually do that. We just say we're compliant. Isn't that not what I learned?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I would prefer if I had to choose a tag the badge to put on the site I would prefer when they said I be non compliant.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That's now now now now now. Now. Now. Is that thing falling apart? I mean, it megaphone is not a part of it. Isn't that doesn't that kind of isn't that 30% of all of all podcasts? Listening apps? Again, I don't I don't know. But no, that was that doesn't make any difference. It's about the the log for the megaphone but they got it. They got a lot of business, don't they? megaphone, they got Romania. Oh yeah. They got Rogan.

Dave JonesDave Jones

A lot of business, so maybe No, no, no. Do

Adam CurryAdam Curry

they have that? Yeah, I thought they had Rogan. megaphone feeds for rods, right. Yeah, that's right. But maybe they maybe that's Grogan? Yeah, they got they got Rogan feeds now, we got to make sure these numbers live up to expectations.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Which requires not having the IB

Unknown

probably correct. Yeah. That's

Dave JonesDave Jones

double checking this because I think initially Rogan was not on megaphone and everybody was like What?

Unknown

No, I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

think he changed overnight. I think I remember an article or something that he that he turned over. I think your went to. And Todd over there blueberry selling host read ads. Now. That's nice. I can't wait. I can't wait for us to do so.

Unknown

Are we going to do host rails? No, of course. Yeah. Why not? Host

Dave JonesDave Jones

or your download? Or your or your download numbers. Too low? Yeah, join the IB. We can jack them up by 10%.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So I was looking at speaking of Spotify, I'm looking at it all kind of clicked. You know, Spotify reported a net profit. But was it net cash or some? It's some some scammy words. But what they did is they bundled by from what I understand when they added audiobooks. And now it makes a lot of sense. If you add audio books to your app, then all of a sudden you're a bundle app and you're not just a music app. And therefore you can pay 25% Less royalties to artists.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Whoa, wait what yeah, this is I looked into the Spotify stuff that I this is all new to me to explain this to me.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Okay, let me see if I can find it. Yeah, so the way the rules work because audiobooks also have a they also have royalties and stuff, I guess. Let me see where was where was that he should there was a lot here here we go. from finance, finance, US Finance as Yahoo Finance us.

Unknown

That's cool. Spanish, Spanish Yahoo. Yes. Spotify

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is music. Audio Book bundle means a lower royalty rate for us songwriters, but company promises record payouts Okay, that's always

Dave JonesDave Jones

sure. We don't have to but we're going to because we love you.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Spotify is premium plans combining music and audiobooks will mean a lower mechanical royalty rate for songwriters on those plans the company has confirmed that's interesting

Dave JonesDave Jones

what Where's this coming from? Like what what legal legality is this related to

Adam CurryAdam Curry

mechanical rights?

Dave JonesDave Jones

So in every country or just the US are lazy,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

all mechanical rights are a worldwide thing. I mean, this is this is okay. This is a publishing this. Let me see. Let me see if I can find any official continue Orlando la historia. Okay. So click here to read the rest of the story. Okay, with the introduction of standalone audiobooks, offerings, Spotify is now able to pay lower music licensing rates for the music and An audio book bundle introduced in the US

in November 2023. The 2022 settlement agreement between the national music Publishers Association and streaming services included a carve out for bundles such as Amazon Prime Apple Music plus Apple news, which the new audiobook offering falls under such lower such plans lower the mechanical licensing rates, the company pays in the US. Spotify is lower royalty rates are retroactive, retroactive to march 1 2024.

Whoa, so, you know, that's a big deal. When you do like you're you're not reporting profit, but net cash or something like that. You can also be projecting into the future. So there's certain expenses that you don't have to mention. It's kind of like the inflation rate Core inflation, which doesn't include food, housing and gas.

Unknown

What about Super core? Super

Adam CurryAdam Curry

core takes out I mean, living you don't live is just some stuff. Amazon deliveries

Dave JonesDave Jones

is another bit Amazon deliveries and DoorDash. Yeah, so

Adam CurryAdam Curry

so that means that you know, they probably and also with an increase in subscription price, that's probably how they're, you know, how they jacked up those numbers. It's great. I mean, it's a public company, I know how this works is creative accounting. You know how this works. Who am I? Who am I tell him who am I talking to? You

Dave JonesDave Jones

know, I mean, this. This is a great, this is a great move, by the way, because if everybody else is doing it, this test so that means that they they added audio books, not because they give a crap about audio books. That's what they don't tell a single audio book. Now.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

nmpa president CEO David Israelite had strong words for the moon. When contacted for comment by variety to appear. Spotify has returned to it, attacking the very current the very songwriters who make its business possible. Spotify is attempt to radically reduce songwriting payments by classifying their music service as an audiobook boom bundle is a cynical and potentially unlawful move. That ends our period of

relative peace. We're on. We're on the warpath. You want to stand for their perversion?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Rocket noises or something? They're going to go?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, if you want that, oh, yeah, it

Dave JonesDave Jones

was this piece will not stand is invalid piece is what it is.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

We need to have. We need where's my rocket ships? I got rocket sock homes. Oh, here we go. We need cruise missile. Net pops, you need more than that. Yes, somebody like this. We will not stand for this Spotify, we will get you we'll see real quick attack. Snap props. Yeah, it's

Dave JonesDave Jones

much more interesting with that. Otherwise, it's kind of boring.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

But that that totally made sense to me. Totally makes sense at all. And all the oil people love our audio books, you really don't know if that's true. Well,

Dave JonesDave Jones

this book, their audio book, this makes so much more sense because their audio book deal is awful. Like you get you're not even in the same league with like Audible, like as far as like cost goes is not even close. So it doesn't that they don't care if they sell a single audio book. This is all about getting this is similar to their previous thing where they had where they, they clearly were using the increase in monthly active users from anchor to get their MA You rate up on a

month over month basis. So they can retain their their lower royalty deal to the music companies. And this is going to happen this is going to they've they've coiled they've like coiled the spring now. So that it's it's ready because now what they're going to do is I don't know if you saw the little bit of news where they said they're going to start basically joining Spotify for podcaster. accounts to

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I didn't Yeah, I saw but I didn't really focus on it. What does that mean? Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

so right now they're two separate accounts you see you have what you have is a historic anchor account. So when you sign up for Spotify for podcasters, you're signing up, it's different than your Spotify account, okay? What they're gonna do is they're gonna migrate these users over to using a Spotify account. So now when you sign up for Spotify for podcasters you're going to be using you have to use a Spotify account so that immediately they have like six roughly million

podcast on Spotify for podcasters. So as they migrate these user accounts over to be Spotify accounts. They're gonna get they're gonna I mean these this is going to make that NAU number go up a whole lot. Going forward, if you want to have as an essentially what is an anchor account, you got to sign up for Spotify. So it's like a win win, you know, to keep that ma you truck rolling.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm glad I don't run a public company anymore. It's so painful.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's paying the other. The other thing I took out of the Spotify earnings, though, was that when they break it out in the premium users, meaning the people that pay for the service monthly, their share of revenue was $3.2 billion for the quarter ad supported, basically the free users. The ad income from those their share of revenue was 389 million. That's more than 10x Less Wow, revenue from ads. That's that's just pointing

Adam CurryAdam Curry

numbers. Yeah, that's low.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's, it tells me like when you give somebody a chance to just flat out pay for something they do it just make you make more money. Yeah. The ad and the ad route is just selling yourself short. Well, not.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Not in all cases, not in all cases. New York Times had a a big expose a on NPR brought clips. Oh, you did? Oh, let me read the the what caught my eye. The title of the piece is inside the crisis at NPR, the crisis. And speaking of bundles, adoption of NPR is podcast subscription bundle. NPR plus, has also lagged behind competitors subscription businesses, according to internal documents obtained by

the New York Times, those crafty Times reporters. About 51,000 people subscribe to NPR plus as of early March, and the product has generated $1.7 million in revenue since it was introduced November 22. Yikes, that's that's unexpectedly low. In late 2022, NPR began selling fewer sponsorships part of an overall downturn in the ad market, which I mean is that not Can we can we

confirm this now anyone actually copped to it? But so for the first time since the COVID 19 pandemic, that Mr. Lansing then the CEO and his team plan for NPRs revenue to remain flat in 2023. He wasn't prepared for what happened next. When January arrived, the bottom the bottom the bottom, the bottom fell out of the digital ad market. It did he said in an interview sponsorships fell $34 million compared with the previous year. And yet somehow the overall podcast advertising market is

now 18 billion. It's amazing. It's doing great. I know that people are like screw these guys. You guys hate advertising. You know? That's not true. We just shot in Froyo

Dave JonesDave Jones

is enjoyable then.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And then it goes on to love people. No, of course, that's 10% of our revenue and you can't go back and get it it's like an airplane that takes off with half the seats sold. Once it's gone it's gone. That's an odd comment.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's a weird metaphor. What

Adam CurryAdam Curry

does that even mean? Well, if it's a Boeing you know

Unknown

just wait for the door to pop then more people will jump in. And it's coming back to the ground just wait on it but pardon but part of what really

Adam CurryAdam Curry

got me is was just showed me how tone deaf these people are. Because you know, they there was a lot of dei involved in, in in changing around stuff. And all we really have to, we really have to diversify our content. Right. So it came as a disappointment to some people on MPRs board last fall when they were presented with new internal data, showing their efforts had not moved the needle much with the black and Hispanic podcast listeners, black listeners and wait until

you hear what they did. Black listeners made up roughly 11% of an accolade on say African Americans so incorrect. Black listeners made up roughly 11% of MPRs audience in the second quarter of 2023, unchanged from the same period in 2020. So three years no change. According to the data. According to the data. The data further showed that the share of Hispanic listeners went up only two percentage points in 2020 to

account for 16% of the total audience. 120 20 survey from Pew Research found that of the people who named NPR as their main source for political and election news 75% were white more than any other outlet except Fox News, Fox News. You're number two on the on the white supremacist list. Yes, but then But then here's what they did. And this is what's just insulting. I mean, these people I think are actually racist.

They don't even know it and NPR is efforts to diversify itself and its audience didn't always live up to the expectations of the people who work there. During a round of layoffs last year, NPR cut louder than a riot, a hip hop podcast that examines black and queer issues. So here's the meeting Dave. With a bunch of white dudes sitting around we need to up our black listenership. Yeah, let's do some Hip Hop throwing some queers. It'll work. No problem. Yeah, the black Americans don't

even want to be seen as black Americans. They just Americans. They want news like everybody else. But no, you're gonna pander with a hip hop podcast. It's sad. It's really sad.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That the agree with John Spurlock the comments on that article were

Unknown

what was I haven't actually looked at the comments I had. I'm

Dave JonesDave Jones

like him. I never read comments on anything. But but the comments on that article were very good. And they like to just read through the, the, the, the leadership of NPR should read those comments because their people are telling them exactly what's up. I mean,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

okay, what do you know? What do you remember any of the comments? I can't actually see it because it's paywall now suddenly, for me,

Dave JonesDave Jones

somebody called it a grievance based network. Wow. And I think that's really what if that's probably the best summation of the comments was that they people just don't like listening to the to a grievance based network. Everything is just negative, and victimization and grievance based. Yeah. And it's just, it just got he just got tired of it. People got just get tired of that thing. You

Adam CurryAdam Curry

know, where are you going seeing with with no agenda that we're backing off a little bit on the amount of mainstream media clips we play? Because it's exactly that, and people get to hurt. But I don't want to hear you guys. Tell me what's going on. I don't want to hear the clips this time makes me tired.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I get it digging. Yes, fatiguing that. I didn't realize, but just a side comment. I didn't realize that NPR staff was sag AFTRA. Oh, that have to be? Yeah, I didn't realize that, that the actors? Well,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

well, you know, it was after and sagen after merge. So they were, I've been, I've always been after, and I've always been sad or sag eligible, because we're actually both eligible because they're gonna pay dues anymore because I didn't have any union gigs. But then they emerged and so technically would just be one payment.

Dave JonesDave Jones

After after, it was the sort of media side of the

Adam CurryAdam Curry

American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. Okay.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay. All right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That was broadcast broadcast, basically.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay, that, that, I guess, you know, my thing is, Catherine Maher got a bunch of Ms. She's taking the heat.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, this is the new, the new CEO of NPR, who? I mean, we've looked at her from an intelligence angle. She has quite an interesting background. Sure, but and you know, and certainly she came from signal the signal foundation before that Wikimedia, which I think everyone knows is is, you know, very managed, very managed, then not by people

Dave JonesDave Jones

at the International Monetary Fund.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Every word Yeah. World Economic Forum. And that's, yeah, that's just a drinking club. But still, you know, she's clearly a globalist. But then a lot of these tweets of hers resurface. And it seems like it's just more of the grievance stuff that the listeners, or at least the readers of The New York Times don't want to hear on their NPR stations.

Dave JonesDave Jones

What I know people are no people like this, like

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Katherine or commenters know,

Dave JonesDave Jones

like, Katherine. I know people who look at the world like this and talk like this, like, so. I did. I did what what all good researchers should do I use the podcast index API people search in search for Katherine. Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

right

Dave JonesDave Jones

on Excellent. Yeah. To find all of the all of the podcast episodes that she's been interviewed in live listening. I like it. Excellent. And I'm telling you, it was awful. She, when I say I know people like this. Not trying to be nosy.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Are there people like this in Alabama? I mean, oh, yeah. No, for sure.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You mean people that think they're smarter than you? Yeah.

Unknown

That's what we're talking about. Yeah. The

Dave JonesDave Jones

people like this are insufferable. They just will not stop talking about in arcane terms about just the, the most miniscule that like the it's just all minutia all the time. And it's it's clouds of connected terminology that you're trying to, like. It's like a fog. You're trying to get through you listen to 20 minutes of it, and you're like, I don't even know what she just said. You

Adam CurryAdam Curry

are You gotta you gotta send us Send me some links. This sounds like no agenda material. Oh,

Dave JonesDave Jones

man, I brought a bra. These clips are unnecessarily long just so that you can understand what she's like. Okay. The, so she speaks like Chad GPT so let's just call her cat GPT. Okay.

Unknown

very flowery flowery? Yes. Yes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Catherine is Cat GPT. So when it's like if so, if you went into a laboratory and said, like, it's 2024 Build me the perfect NPR CEO. Yeah, they would build you this lady. She talks about governance, constantly institutional governance. They're not looking for truth. They're looking for consensus on what is not disinformation. Like, there is so it's just mind bogglingly boring.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm getting the electricity ready to create her in a lab.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So clip one is she starts Where's where's this from? What

Unknown

podcast? Is this from? This is from the podcast?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Possible. Think that's the day we'll need to make sure that. Okay, it's from possible. Possible? Yes, this is Reid Hoffman's podcast.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, another fine specimen. He's a big donor. I think he's a big NPR don't you should be a big NPR donor.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I feel light. So this this. This was from January 24 of this year. I feel like I feel like this was sort of a tryout for the NPR CEO gig. Some of the questions were seemed oriented in that direction. Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that would make sense. You have to go through even Okay, you got to do reads. Isn't the on the board is a board I've been feeling that he's a This isn't Reed Hoffman at Reed. Hoffman and PR. So he's the Salesforce guy. Right. LinkedIn, LinkedIn, I'm sorry. Yeah, let me see. Yeah, I have a feeling he's the only appearance board. He would be the kind of guy that you would have to go by, you know, it's like, Oh, you gotta go talk with Reed before we can get you in, you know,

big. If you get reads endorsement, then you're good to go.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I can't tell from here. But it would not. Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me at all. But this sounds like I think this is this was prior to her being at NPR, of just prior. And this just feels such like a like a job interview or at least just a sort of a face TAs and FaceTime with somebody that was already probably had taken the job because in a couple, a couple points in the interview, she started, she starts referencing to she's using the term wiki, Wikimedia in like

past tense, right, and that kind of thing. So but she's in this clip when she's talking about institutional. There's two clips are institutional trust. As hard to see it's, it's almost unclimbable, but it was like, it's like institutional trust. And how did it it comes from the black breakdown institutional trust comes from diversification.

Unknown

I think the internet has been catastrophic for trust, but perhaps not for all of the reasons we might think, when I say catastrophic, I think that what has happened is not that the internet has destroyed trust it is the internet has surfaced fissures within systems and, and allowed them to grow and grow

publicly at an exponential rate. And so when, for example, we think about trust in institutions, which is something that I'm very interested in, and that comes to sort of institutional governance, institutions fit for purpose. And I mean, institutions in the abstract and in the literal sense. So the institution of universal suffrage is an

institution, although doesn't have like a brand name. The issues that we've seen there is that many of these institutions were built around a sort of homogenous population that they were serving. They were not terribly responsive, both in terms of accountability to that population. And then when we started to see increasingly heterogeneous populations, due to immigration, diversification, civil rights, movement, etc, etc. We started to see how those those institutions were were not

actually sort of fit for purpose. What the Internet has done is it has exposed those fissures in ways that are related to both. We now interface with all sorts of technologies, platforms and services that are hyper responsive to Do our needs in and have created an anticipation of a much more frictionless, much more productive set of processes services, outcomes SLA functional human SLAs human

Adam CurryAdam Curry

SLA s really? Hey, yeah, I thought you would like humanist human SLAs service level agreements seriously?

Dave JonesDave Jones

So imagine, imagine 45 minutes of that. I mean,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I mean, what did you? What do you think she actually said?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I know exactly what she said, Because I listened to it and no lie like eight times. I think I know exactly what she said. What she's saying here, is that, that NPR, okay, so is she talking about institutions? Is

Unknown

NPR, NPR? Yeah, yeah, that it qualifies

Dave JonesDave Jones

under that under her definition. So she's saying that NPR was built to serve a specific group of people, that that group of people being upper class white people. And that's the true problem with it as an institution that that's how it's broken. Okay, that's the truth that that was that it didn't just break. I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

honestly, I would still say just upper class. I don't know if NPR was specifically servicing white people. I mean, you know, Cory Booker percent of

Dave JonesDave Jones

their audience is white is according to the stats. So that's what this is. But this is her, you know, this is this is her frame of reference here. Yes, I got it. She's saying the internet, like social media, YouTube, podcasting, et cetera, just exposed that already existing problem. So to her the core issue and NPR is that it was only serving a core audience of rich white people in the internet, just exposed What was

our that existing problem? And I mean, this, if you look at John, like John Lansing there previously, yeah, this is very much on point with what he was trying to do with a company when he was there. He was trying to he was trying, he was very much on the same mindset. Evidently, he was trying to change that. But the problem is, if you change MPRs target audience, what you have is no longer in PR. Well, you don't have something different.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

What this says to me, what this says to me is this is proof. You can't monetize the network. When because people who want who like even like NPR programming, because that's what your podcast app does for you. I put it together. I got my own podcast network of shows that I like, that's what changed?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Well, I think what they did well, I think, yes, and I think, but I think they looked at their they looked at their audience and said, it's, it's a bunch of rich white people. Oh, that's how they looked at it. For sure. Yeah, yes. And then they said, so what we need to do is change ourself, and we'll change the audience. But the problem is when you change yet, is when you do that you don't you no longer what you have,

what you've created now is no longer NPR. You have something different that's, and that's very much in line with what the commenters on the New York Times article, were saying they, they were saying that over and over, they're saying I feel alienated. What is this thing that I'm listening to it didn't used to they, these stories are like, they're talking different than they did 20 years ago. It's boring. Now. It's Bah, blah,

blah. And so like changing your audience is fine. If if what you want at the end of the day is a completely different audience. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with that necessarily. But you have to stop and ask if that audience if that different audience wants you. Yes, yes. Well, also they might and they might not. I mean, you, you know that you already like, you know, you already have a committed audience. And I'm just talking

purely about NPR here. I'm just trying to be blunt. If you're NPR, you know, you have a committed audience of rich white people that every year get about $100 million worth of tote bags. But is this new audience that you're changing to? Are they going to do the same thing? The answer, we see the answer, the answer is no. That's how you lose $30 million. Yeah, it's because

Adam CurryAdam Curry

well, in so radio, then there's a whole bunch of things going on here. I mean, what I ultimately see is the we've seen a very, very slow collapse of broadcast across the board that the newspapers are done is done and but there's always going to be a couple that make it obviously yeah, that hang on to that, you know, we still have, we still have a ham radio stations that that are hanging on, you know, a ham

radio networks but but basically is gone. The In fact, the main market that radio stations are supposed to serve is their local home market that's gone, that that by itself is gone. That's what the internet data is, oh, I can I can listen to a market of interests, you know, doesn't have to be a geographical market. There's other offers, if you want to know what's going on in New York City. Besides, you know, the the morning radio shows, which coincidentally in general, are basically one guy

like Elvis Duran at z 100. He has 20 stations across the country. So he's talking to all different kinds of markets at the same time, not just New York. So this, this collapse, I think, is accelerating. And that's what you're seeing here. Also the cost the overhead, that's why they put so much. They you know, they brought their radio values to podcasting, they put up you know, $1,000 Neumann

microphones, it said, this will work fine. We can have, you know, 15 people on radio labs or more even, it's like, no, no, this certain, that's not the economics anymore. It's the same thing with streaming video. And streaming video is going to have this exact same problem. You know, Disney is a great example. The Marvel Cinematic Universe, well, you know, we're catering to to, to kids who identify with white superheroes, we got to

bring in some gay lesbians as black lesbians. And they're now the superheroes and then so you ultimately start alienating both sides pandering. And what is this? Yes,

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's what I think happened to NPR here. They decided they wanted to diversify, diversify their audience. And in doing so what they ended up with is having no increase in black and Hispanic listeners and a decrease in white listeners. Yeah. So they basically went in, in reverse they the new the new audience they wanted. And again, there's nothing wrong with the what they wanted. The new but that new audience they were wanting never materialized. No. It never

Adam CurryAdam Curry

got it wasn't there. The audience was never there for what they were making. Yeah, it turns

Dave JonesDave Jones

out black and Hispanic people just don't care about NPR. That's fine. Yeah. Like you can't make them care. No. And, you know, they, they, those populations, by and large, evidently have, you know, media they already listened to, and it suits them just fine. Yeah. So so they, so NPR, just basically just foot gun to itself. And they didn't start by by laying off and chopping a bunch of radio people killed the podcasters,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

they shot the horse that actually had a chance.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Your old audience feels alienated and now you're new, the new audience never showed up. And so that's like a recipe for bad times. Click clip two is like, I think clip two is how a glimpse of you know if you think that she's going to fix things at NPR, the clip two, it'll give you a glimpse of of that future.

Unknown

We've also seen that we now have the ability to record in real time with with examples of where those gaps actually are, which make the the the failures of those institutions even more evident to a greater number of people. That to me is sort of the primary issue relative to trust in this day. And age is not really around, oh, my goodness, my algorithm is

serving me information that I can't trust. It is actually around a set of expectations about how institutions should function in our lives, and are and where those institutions are falling down is responsive institutions that are consistent and accountable in their purpose and effective in their service delivery. Absolutely. Then there are questions of like, well, why is the media not trusted? And, you know, what does? What does

sort of social media have to do with all of that? And I think that those are useful questions, as are the questions around what, you know, what is AI going to do to are like the construction of false information. But I think that they are secondary questions to this primary one around what is the internet shown to us about the institutions that have historically governed our nation's our lives and where are they not fit for purpose? And I think that this is actually a

really important and essential question. If for those of us like myself, who believe very foundationally that institutions should be a responsive to all people, but that institutions are perhaps the most important part of stable democratic rights respecting representative governance.

Dave JonesDave Jones

She's not doing it she's not going to change a single thing to her. To her, she said Things like trust in media are secondary issues that we can talk about those later. So what she's she was cut, she came into this gig with the idea of which basically with the exact same frame of reference that they already had, that has been shown to be a complete failure. So Plan A didn't work. And Plan B is basically a bunch of question marks. I don't know what to do.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, they're also NPR severely hampered. I mean, that's the history of NPR, with the local station strategy is just hampering. That's the whole problem. They have a network of stations. And and those stations by programming, some of the make

programming Sella back to the network. That idea is just over I was talking to I don't know if I talked about this, I my buddy wanted to see him in Dallas for 60s, this brother came and actually knew his brother, but his older brother before I knew Vic, and Steve was the was like a junior engineer at the time, but he later became the senior engineer of big broadcast companies. I think it was Emma's first and then it was in Clear Channel. And so and he knows a lot and the television stations,

the local television stations, they're done. That, you know, a local ABC affiliate is done is all over. They're going to close. There'll be bought, and they'll they may do one program to try and do some local news. But the the network's they don't want to pay for anything anymore. It's like no, no, it's all closing all of that the network node model of broadcast radio and television is gone.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Is it because it's so like our, for instance, our local ABC, CBS, NBC Fox affiliates, you're saying that those things are in television, those things are going to just be gone? Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

they really have no reason to be broadcasting anymore. I mean, yeah, they're still going to try terrestrial digital broadcasting, but it's really over. The model has broken because you just you sell you can insert as at a local level, you don't need a local sales first. You know, all of that stuff is gone. Gone. Gone. And it's way too expensive.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Is that a drag? financially? Yeah. mothership? Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

big time. Yeah. And the motherships they've all expanded into all these additional businesses. The ABC now is of course owned by Disney, but they, you know, they're trying to divest of ESPN and the in this, sometimes

consolidation doesn't work out too good. If if if things you know, if the if if the world changes, and this is what I love so much about podcasting, this is what I love, the audience gets to determine what their, their their menu is, what they like listening to how fast they like listening to it.

Unknown

I'll add that.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Unfortunately, yeah, well, that's, you know, that's my personal beef. But ultimately, you know, the technology is there, you can do whatever you want. And, and as we've seen, the, the audience also determines if I want to hear ads or not, they'll just load an ad blocker. And that's coming, that we basically have that in podcasting. It's called the Skip 32nd button. That's a form of an ad blocker. Everyone has it. And everyone raises their hand. Yeah, I skip the

ads. So so something is fundamentally broken. And also the, because of the supply and demand, you know, the days of, you know, the NPR because I saw the numbers, the NPR Morning Edition host they each make, you know, 400 grand, if that's, that's your will pay, yeah, that's, that's over, you just gonna have to get by with less and, you know, make an outstanding product. And you'll be okay. And subsequently, the

idea of I have to be number one. Because if you're not number one, or have the most downloads or the biggest audience, those days are gone, too. I mean, there's always going to be your top dog and something that everyone's crazy about, and there will always be infrastructure for that. But it's but the people who can actually get in there 1% will be 0.01%. And the most the you know, the most interesting stuff won't even be there anymore.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I didn't realize that, that in prs. I didn't realize that they've only been around since 1971. Yeah, that

Adam CurryAdam Curry

was when the Corporation for Public Broadcasting was created.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, that was surprising that they're that young. And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

also, they really, they really started to rely a lot more on underwriting. Yeah, yeah, of course, it was pure out pure advertising in the podcast market. And so they lost that value for because when you hear the NPR pitch, you know, a lot of you and I listened to one NPR To show religiously on the media, on the media, and and I've actually sent the money for it because I felt so disgusting. I had to send some money. But now I know that it's not going to on the media is going to NPR

and that makes me feel icky. Because I really liked that. I declined the tote bag. I really, you know, they, you know, if, if pivot if they asked me for money, I'd send the money. Stuff that I listened to I will support that and they kind of let that go, but their pitch is now well if everyone sent $1 We wouldn't even having this conversation. Yeah, that's not gonna work. That and you're also devaluing you're devaluing your product? Well, is it really just worth one buck? You know, what

is it worth to you? Does it brighten your day when these are very easy pitches, but instead they went for Squarespace and you know, all the other stuff with a with a code with a code bond, Gino? You know, they went that route and yeah, then you live and die by the ad market. And and if you can't see that CPMs are always a race to the bottom downloads race to the bottom, particularly when you have an ever expanding universe.

Dave JonesDave Jones

The original 1970s npr logo is pretty killer. And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

now you also see even though James won't write about it, but you know Megan Markel ba big announcement with the limonada. But there's no money. That's why she's not doing it. They say, Well, you know, we can probably get your 50 grand on the ads, maybe 100 and 100 100,000. May be but that's advertising based. You know, she has no relationship with the audience.

Dave JonesDave Jones

For me, it's just, it's yeah, it's just like the, like the Obama stuff. A Obama's same thing. Exactly. Yeah. And Brene Brown, honestly, there's just no, no, there's no, there's no, there's no organic connection. And let's be

Adam CurryAdam Curry

really honest about it. He's my friend. But Joe did not get $250 million. You know, every report says, could be worth up to. Yeah, right. You know, based upon ad sales performance. Yeah. And probably, I mean, I don't know if Spotify sells, if they cut it, because I think originally they had a deal with YouTube. And he let Spotify deal with YouTube and add money there. And so I'm not sure I don't know anything about the

deal. But for sure, I know when you're jacking into Joe Rogan's podcast every 15 minutes with an ad, just bones right in the middle of it. We're scraping the bottom of of what we're doing here.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, you were telling me about that. I'm not a listener to his show, unless there's somebody a specific guest. I specifically want to hear, but you're telling me about about the new, like the ads now. They're pumping them in all the time, every 15 minutes. It used to be that way used to just be a bunch of pre rolls, and then there was no ads during the show. Yeah, no,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

no. Well, that everyone, of course, skip those. But those were the early days. You know, I was like, oh, you know, you only had 10 minutes of ads. Everybody knew 20 clicks. Pam there. And these are hosted ads that Joe doing the host read ads. And honestly, you know, he loves every product and uses every single product, I'm sure.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, yeah, for sure. They're all in his garage,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you know. So, but and I think he also I think also he lost some influence to a degree.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Really, from what listen by by

Adam CurryAdam Curry

not being on open podcast. I think it hurt him. You know,

Dave JonesDave Jones

not being on YouTube.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I mean, he he honestly he doesn't care. He really doesn't care. Joe does not care. He doesn't do the business. I don't talk to him about he didn't talk to anybody about business. If I said, hey, hey, you need to be on value for value. He'd be like, I talked to my manager. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. He did that show for years, without even knowing you could make money on it. He just wants to do

he just wants to have fun. That's Joe. That's that's why he's successful in what he does.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Right? Because it's a focus on the content. Yeah. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes, other people to deal with that. And he's one of those people that can still be top dog in, in what he's doing, and then that infrastructure will support him. But I doubt that that's the kind of money that's being made. I really, really doubt that. Now, so you're telling me that he has that he has a quarter of all podcast advertising revenue?

Dave JonesDave Jones

No, no, I can't see this. See that? That's the case. But who knows? Maybe

Adam CurryAdam Curry

but but All those deals and Spotify gave up, they just gave up. They saw it wasn't working, they save face and they gave up. And here we are. Here we are right back where we started.

Dave JonesDave Jones

The edit audio books fired a bunch of people in now been raise prices. And now here we are.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And Joe is as a much higher output right now he's doing a show almost every single day. I know why. Because he knows that he has real competition. And and I think he enjoys I think he enjoys the competitive nature of getting, you know, these interesting guests first, you know, having them on and then, you know, there's there's a huge benefit to in this case, I think that's the only place where video makes

sense to me. Is is highly clippable people will watch three minutes of video on x. And then and then say yeah, no, I heard that episode.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Every PP said he's back on YouTube is that? Yeah, that didn't realize that. Yeah. I thought he had an exclusive video deal with with Spotify.

Unknown

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Well, yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

that makes that Spotify deal look just pretty much

Unknown

kind of weak. We don't even know what the deal is. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I mean, like, it may, I guess what I mean by that is it makes it makes me question. The reported details of that deal even more. But ultimately, I'm just happy

Adam CurryAdam Curry

to Joe's on my podcast that are that I can watch if I want to watch minute, which I don't. But I'm happy. The only thing for YouTube, the only reason that I will look at that is to look at the million comments. Like the comments are always interesting, because a lot of people comment on his episodes. That's why I'll sometimes go take a look at the episode on YouTube or just switch over for a minute. But

usually, I'm just listening to it. But that's really what I love about Joe, I don't I don't care if he makes a billion dollars or $0. And I don't think he cares either. It's easy for him to say but for myself, it's the same way. I would you know, we do this podcast for no money. We do a lot of things. Just because we love it. Surprise.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I mean, as long as long as we pay for the results we pay for the index and break is honestly breakeven on the index this I mean, the the show this show is our is always just been, like, weekly. Let's

Unknown

just affidavit

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is catching up. Exactly. So on that note, let's move over to activity pub, because there's been a lot of posting a lot of stuff going on. And the one thing that did catch my eye in general is Dave Weiner not being happy about the move towards activity pub in general for Federation. Okay, and when I think Federation isn't is the correct word because that's we are, in essence looking to federate the podcast apps. Is that a fair? A fair way to put it?

Dave JonesDave Jones

federate, I guess, federate, in terms of the Fetty verse or whatever? federate,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

comments, federate, ratings, federate reviews, federated follows federate, likes federate? Yeah, so everybody has, there's a federation of, well, exactly what it's called Social interactivity around podcasts and their episodes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So does it work yet?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Only me what a day. I'm trying to I'm trying to work up to care. What day was that? What did he What did he say?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

He said, Hold on a second. I should have had that mean if

Dave JonesDave Jones

there's a if he's got a legitimate beef. Well, then I mean, I'm willing to listen, I think

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it's, you know, it's like it's not it's not not invented here, but it's Hold on a second. His site is loading very slow for some reason. Here it is, when did he post this thing he posted on Monday, the the idea of us all working together to federate, is the right idea. But making activity pub, the hurdle everyone has to jump over is in my humble opinion, the wrong idea. I'm building on feeds RSS atom RDF.

A lot of good stuff works on that basis, and it's a much shorter path to interrupt then activity pub. So I, and I think he's looking more not looking at podcasting, obviously, but he's looking more at how bridges that bridge, you know, feed a into CES. I mean, I see activity pub, kind of as an

aggregator. You know, it's like I can I can follow or subscribe to certain feeds at aggregates them and then I can do something with that which in turn I can turn around and other people can aggregate what I did with it

Dave JonesDave Jones

this is this This comment is too vague to, to really even know what what to respond to. I mean this because I mean our RSS is for good, okay, we made RSS work as a so as a as a Pub Sub mechanism. With Freedom controller, I could, I could post something on my microblog. And it would show up on your on your newsfeed, you could hit reply, which would reply in your RSS feed, referencing that item in my

feed. And then my since I follow you, my news feed would pick up your reply out of your RSS feed as a threaded reply to the thing that I originally that was actually

Adam CurryAdam Curry

a very cool thing you built there. That was that was pretty amazing.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. And we call that like a pull pull only social network. There was no, there was no push involved.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Right? The problem was everybody needed something hosted somewhere.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Right? Which, which is still the problem with activity pub,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yes. But the infrastructure has been built and people are using it. That's the difference. Like there's eight people with a freedom controller. And there's millions of people who have an account on an activity pub instance, with some front end be it Pleroma, Mastodon, etc. Well,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I mean, he's, he's right, in the sense that, I don't know what he's, he gets off into the he's using the term interop. And I'm not sure what he means. But I mean, he's right in the sense of simplicity when it comes to feeds when it's just Okay, so an RSS, a podcast app is just polling or at polling RSS feeds to look for new content, that's about as simple as you're gonna get theirs. And that's no different than typing in a website address and letting the page load here, right?

There's no, that's, that is more simple than activity pub, because you don't have activity pub now. Now you've introduced now, not only do you have what you could call a feed, which might be the outbox, but you now have a sort of Verbling like a verb layer on top where you're having to push action. Yes,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the verb layer is the right description.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And so you know, you're having to push actions back and forth to servers that are listening to each other. So this is the difference between you know, something like just polling an RSS feed versus web sub, or, you know, or pod paying, where you're just basically listening for, for events.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It was interesting, it is a mind bender, in a way, because I was listening to Sam and James talk on last week's podcast, weekly pod news weekly review. And it was so obvious that James was not quite grokking, the idea of how activity pub fits into this federation of apps. And he was he's he can only at that moment, I haven't listened to the whole show this week. At that moment, I could tell like, Oh, you're almost there. But you still thinking in terms of commenting

on a post and stuff like that. Whereas you've got to remove that whole layer from your vision. And, you know, when we talk about activity streams, that's nothing more than a user RSS feed. Okay, it's JSON, it's serialized, whatever you want to call it, but it's still, that's a, that's an RSS feed. Let's just call it that for the moment that I am creating as a user. And my content is actions. My Content is things I'm doing. And it relates directly to a previous post, which is an

episode or a show itself. And that is, in effect, aggregated and redistributed or made for following and redistribution by activity pub. Right. So it's kind of like you have an you have a feed aggregator that can turn around and and syndicate that out to everybody who's interested. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, if I if I have an RSS feed, all I need is I need just one file. If I have an activity pub relationship to the world, I need Need a server? Yeah. Yes. And that can Can I need a server that can that can speak and listen both. And so you know that what we're trying to, you know, what we're, what we're looking towards is for with with activity pub in the future is not at all easy.

Unknown

No, no, no, no, it's not. No,

Dave JonesDave Jones

it's in Dave's Dave's right on that point. It's not at all it's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

a hurdle. It's definitely a hurdle. Definitely. But, but we

Dave JonesDave Jones

went from zero to pushing Bitcoin around in real time. Yeah. So that we can do hard stuff. You know, that's, that's not it's, it's not I'm not scared of that. I'm not scared of doing hard things. And, you know, another issue with with RSS, I don't mean issue in the tournament, in terms of it being bad. I mean, like, another one of another one of the considerations here with with with RSS, from a historical

point of view is that servers used to be very expensive. Yeah, it really was like to run a server really was a, a financial burden. So being able to in bandwidth was a financial, big financial burden. So I mean, if you think about that, I mean, RSS made sense for that time period is still does I mean, I'm not, I'm not slamming it, it still does RSS made, made more sense than something like activity pub would have back then where you're going to have to run a actual server that's

doing a bunch of things. Now, nowadays, the dynamics around all of that has changed the financial burden. And they I mean, let's, and just the technical know how required to run something, as as a small server is much more accessible. Well, besides so I don't ever feel limited anymore. I suppose it took a decade or so for us to create an infrastructure for feed hosting.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And so there's 1000s of places you can go to host your feed. And it's to the point where it's invisible. Nobody understands I heard I heard some sports guy. And it was a, there was something about ads being placed in front of his podcast and in the way he saw his I Have a hosting company says, And they uploaded everywhere for me. Okay, and you know, and if one of my my episodes doesn't show up on Apple, they say you forgot to upload to Apple. He people don't even know how it works

anymore. And we're still like, we got it in our heads, right feed aggregator we all we can all connect those dots very, very simply. But people don't don't see that. They're like that I'm using this. And I guess you have a hosting company. They upload it everywhere. They just make sure that file is uploaded to every platform. That's what that's what people think. Even

podcasters don't realize anymore how it works. Yeah, because we build so transparent, like you said, Yeah, but we built that infrastructure, which and so now instead of let's set up little servers to host little mini freedom controllers so we can interact with things now there's an infrastructure and it runs an activity pub and it's called Mastodon, you know, just for for all intents and purposes, but we don't care about the mastodon

part. We care about the, the the plumbing, which is activity pub, which we can use beautifully to our advantage.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Right. And that's the part where it gets hard. Of course, okay, yeah. Because you're, you're now you're now starting to speak, speak a language back and forth to each other. Yeah, it's no longer just to get requests. Now. It's now now you know, now syntax is important now. Now, the wire level protocol is more complicated. I mean, these

things are. Alex had a great point yesterday. So one of the things that one of the changes I made to the namespace this week, if we're going to do some namespace stuff, is that for a long time, the social enter the social interact tag has only been allowed, like by spec has only been allowed in the item. So in the episode level, and there there's always people have always wanted it to be in the channel itself to

Adam CurryAdam Curry

people being a channel people being James Cridland. Now, there were

Dave JonesDave Jones

others. I mean, he wanted it to be there and he wanted it but there were others like in the original discussions. That was that was a one of the original discussion points was you know, Why should we why should we limit this? And that kind of thing? Yeah, I think, and

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm not against that. I just I think I disagree with the fundamental argument that shows that a smaller audience will have less people interacting. I'm not so sure about that. Yeah. I mean, it's irrelevant. It's irrelevant. Some Yeah, it's, the conversation is irrelevant. Yeah, it's fine. Put it in the channel. I got no problem with that. Can I just make one more analogy? Yes. Almost everybody, including me, has a Google login has a Google identity. And this

Google thing does a lot of things for you. I typically use it. If there I'm signing up for something that I really just, I'm just trying something I really don't. This is my burner account. And so I'll get a verification through my Gmail. Yeah, I do have PayPal link to it. So I can do Google Pay, which sometimes is just super easy. So that universal login account is, is in fact, what your Macedon, I'm just using

that as a global term. Login will be for your podcast, your podcast app, so that we can then do something that I doubt Apple will ever ever do, I doubt Spotify will ever do is we can be communicating all of these different interactions amongst each other amongst a an ever expanding universe of apps. That, to me is super exciting, and blows away all competition. Because then the cool kids are over here. They're interacting. They're commenting, just like Rogan, people go to YouTube to

comment. Now I say it's all about comments, but even discovery of oh, look at how many people are following this podcast. That is a very, very, very compelling thing.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, and you could see that that would build up, you would build up a community of peep of podcast listeners who are dedicated, like app level listeners, they always use a podcast app. Yeah. And you and they would be posting, you know, they would be be doing actions back and forth. Commenting, reviewing rating. Adding adding things to play lists, yeah, yes, shared playlists, recommending

Adam CurryAdam Curry

function recommending your own pod roles. I mean, you can have all kinds of stuff that can really become a social graph. I said it, but it's really true. It's really true. It's really true. You're you're you're making available a social graph that you can then that will enrich your own life.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, and that one, and that would be its own sort of community, you know? Yes. Like the YouTube, like the YouTube community or whatever it is it for that evolves around a specific, a specific host or a specific channel or whatever you want to call it. But then it just but then it just propagates.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes, everywhere. Everybody can get a part of it. And then that can go out to websites, and more businesses will, will sprout from that just I mean, I can see Daniel J. Lewis, revamping his entire business of this as possible.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Well, if you if you're going to in this, this, this comes back to you know, social interact in the channel, and now you have some sort of some sort of tie back to, to, to the social interact. If you serve some sort of tie back to activity pub in the channel, then you can you have a starting place for pushing for pushing actions back and forth

Adam CurryAdam Curry

about the podcast, right? Like, follow and that kind of stuff. But yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

not just follow up, like you said, ratings or reviews. So this may be something Daniel may be pulling this data out, to pull into his service

Adam CurryAdam Curry

was like someone there because he's almost sent me a note the other day? Are you familiar with this website linked to good pods? We really need more representation over there. And then I'm like me out. Well, my people don't, you know, they don't go to good pods or whatever, whatever it's called. You know, then there's other but the, you have all these little places where people congregate and talk about, you know, they're fake, they're the one or two podcasts or, or group of

podcasts. And we can bring that all together. Now, good pod should be a part of it. They should be federating with with the apps through the pub.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, cuz they get there. They're a comment. Yeah. destination, there are this place where those things happen and reviews and all that. But it's funny, you think that if you have a protocol that that means that you can just do you think that once you have a protocol, you can just extend the protocol. And you don't have to worry about like things like breakage, and that sort of stuff. But but it's not really that simple. Because you still have chicken and egg, things

that happen with even within an existing protocol. So for instance, Mastadon. Like we, if we, as we go down this road, if we have things, we're going to need new new objects. So now maybe a note object is not enough, we need something different, like we, you know, just just as a crazy example, we talked about a pod pod ping or activity pub. I'm not, I'm not really thinking about that these days. But if if we had that,

let's just say I'm just trying to grab an example here. If we had that, and you had an A pod ping object within activity pub. Well, the existing activity pub class, they don't know about that they have no idea what this thing is now, they wouldn't know what to do with it, they will know what to do with it. So that you're still have a chicken and egg thing. Now you have a you

have a shared protocol. So you can, that's this may be extendable, but it's but it's really not that different than something like a namespace and an RSS feed support has to be built in. Okay, so just initials and that's the hump you have to get. Okay, this is okay, this is good for me of edifying. So, the hurdles that we're seeing is, so let's just, let's take some let's take some simple things. What can we actually do with the existing

Adam CurryAdam Curry

activity pod protocol? Before we would have to create you know, new verbs namespaces, blobs, whatever it is, can we do podcasts I follow?

Dave JonesDave Jones

You would.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So for instance, so if you live, you look at my profile in on podcast, index dot social, right. And this is, this is just a very basic thing. But you look at my profile, the end, here, you can see, posts, posts and replies media, but they can also see following and I click on following, it shows who I'm following. And you can see followers who's following me. Can we use the active out sub forget if it's, if I had to create a whole new activity pub account? Let's just forget all

that complicated stuff. Could you a bare minimum, be seeing which podcasts I follow? If my app put into my activity pub account that I follow these accounts, which are all podcasts? Is that am I making sense? Am I making sense? Yes, you're

Dave JonesDave Jones

making? Yeah, you're making sense. So you would you would enumerate your, like, we would have to basically, we would have to tag these actors, these podcast actors as podcasts through I'm not, not sure exactly how we the best way to do that. Right now. I'm trying to envision what the actor object looks like. But we would, we would basically identify these actors as podcasts, then someone would query your follow your following list. And then be able to see, okay, 75 of these

250 follows that you have our podcasts? To me, yeah, that's yes, that's not a burden. I mean, that's the that's, that's doable. So as to whether you will see there's two levels, you can do it, you can just sort of like tag the actor in some way as a podcast, or you can sort of you can define a podcast actor, which is a whole different sort of, right, I got you more involved. And then that's the part we have to jump over a, you know, a log

Adam CurryAdam Curry

in Harvard says, I actually have zero desire to show everyone what I follow. Sure. I mean, but that's not the trend. People love. beefing up their profile letting people know, I mean, just, I mean, that's, that's a fact of social interaction. People like that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Some people like it, some people don't. Some

Adam CurryAdam Curry

people don't, but a lot of people do. I mean, it's just like, we now have the podcasting 2.0 logo emoji, which everybody can can add to that which I like, you know, it's like hey, virtue signaling that I am a member of this group. Boop, I mean, this is things that are cool. You know? So these are all, you know, this is a podcasting, 2.0, podcast, all these different things. I understand what you're saying

now. And that's an important part that I hadn't really considered that we that, yeah, it'll work if if you're all on the same instance that understands these objects or actors wherever you call them. But that would be something that would have to that everyone has to implement that just like a namespace in order for that to work.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. Well, we've done

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it before we've done one namespace, I'm sure we could do another one. We've

Dave JonesDave Jones

done two, we've done two namespaces, where we did SOP ml and podcasts namespace. So we're, we know how to namespace stuff. You know, we, if anybody's good from start with starting from egg, absolute scratch is probably us. But I think we can. I mean, in any activity, pub is not going to be the solution to every problem. You know? Nothing really is. There is no, there is no protocol. That is the solution for every problem. You pick and choose. That's why we still use

XML for RSS feeds. Yeah. Because it's fine. It works. It's fine. That's not we're not we're not we're nobody's changing this. And the way and so when it comes to social interaction of a certain extensible type activity Pub is, is the right choice for that is the right tool for that job.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

You got that? And that was gonna be my next question. I mean, am I barking up the wrong tree here or social? First, we have to agree is social interaction desired? And I say yes, I say social interaction between podcast apps is something that will turn it into a very, very powerful entity. I think so too. Is activity pub, the right infrastructure based upon its limitations, versus its availability to many people.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay. All right, in my opinion, yes. So when it when it comes to social interaction between apps activity, pub, to me is the correct answer. Why when it comes because it's, it's got this, this is similar to watch why to choose a crit one crypto over the other or whatever. It's, it's sort of a constellation of, of different factors, you have to take into account. It's, it's not super complex. It's got, it's got an ease of understanding to it. It's got market share already,

it's already got momentum. Like lots of it paid, it's often running. So you're not so it's not hurting, it's in it's got support within most languages, like it's got libraries for most languages that will support the basics, okay. There's example code out there, there's that kind of thing. And then it's, you can, it's already been, you're already seeing being done. Apps are already federating in using this protocol. Okay. So it's, it's got sort of like a, its

pedigree, at this point, makes sense. But when you versus something like a Noster, where you're where you're starting, you know, you're trying to grow scratch from nothing. Yeah. And, you know, ignoring or ignoring all the downsides of the protocol itself. I mean, it's just purely trying to get something off the ground from absolutely nothing. And there's no network effect, you know,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm going to ask you, I'm just, this is how we do it, Dave. With that in mind, the energy so taking your scale, right, is the energy and I can't believe I'm saying this is the energy and the, the amount of I think energy, not velocity, but the amount of veracity that is, this velocity and veracity. So activitypub has velocity noster has veracity. And in effect, if you want to add something to the Nasr protocol, we will find much

more. A much easier path, I believe. Then going to Gore Gonzalez, whatever his name is Gorgon and saying Hey, David

Dave JonesDave Jones

Gergen,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Gorgon, we need we need we need this hey, these crypto bros over here with free speech we want to have this added to Macedon. I mean I've just thrown that out there. I understand all the issues and I Alex GATES I love you don't don't get mad just yet. And is asking the question. Are we very, very sure activity Pub is the right way to go taking the velocity versus veracity into account? Because as I've always said, Nasr is a solution looking for a problem.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But no, I think I think activitypub is the correct solution because nostril has the same exact problem

Adam CurryAdam Curry

with a smaller group to convince, who may be more enthusiastic to make it woman,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't know that I would go that far. Okay. Maybe because noster has the same issue it has. Look how many nips there are. There's like seven bazillion of these things. You look at your typical nostre relay, and it supports maybe 40. There's there. Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's always comes down to the instance or the relay or whatever. Yeah, it always,

Dave JonesDave Jones

there's hundreds of proposals that just never get anything done. Right. So it's but

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the way I see it is it's entirely possible that just as true fans will become a full native activity pop client, and will service its users with an activity pub instance, a login that doesn't act at all, like a mastodon server, but just does the activity pub activity pub Federation, will that mean that podcast guru basically needs to do the same for their users?

Dave JonesDave Jones

See that said again, I'm not sure I follow.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, instead of me bringing my existing activity pub account, which is typically linked to a mastodon, right? Is it easier to bootstrap this by the developer, the app developers having their own wishes, a whole nother burden, a whole nother can of worms, having their own activity pub running, either in client or as a server to service their customers, their app users for the social interaction with other apps.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think that's the only way this really gets off the ground.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That's this is this is a big thing to understand. Because

Dave JonesDave Jones

I agree with Matt airhead in the chat because he says he says his comment is Mastodon is a really poor example of activity pub and got it. I don't think he's right. In one sense. I mean, it's a good example of it. If you're if you're if you're ill, if your aim is is to show what it can do as a proof of concept for for a use case, like I'm having

trouble describing this. Okay. There's a reason why whenever anybody comes up with a social protocol, they the first thing they build, just like nostra did the first thing they build as a social network, right,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

which is kind of death. Yeah, it's because

Dave JonesDave Jones

it's the first because it it, it's an easy sort of way to, it's the same reason to all example, code apps that like how to build an app one on one always starts with like an RSS reader. It's just this easy. Hello, World type. Yeah, here's my protocol. I'm going to show it off. Right. But he's right, in the sense that, that it's a poor, it's a, it leaves you with a poor understanding of the full capabilities of what can be created with this thing. It leaves you it sort of leaves you

wanting. Because you because you what you end up with is thinking, you're in a box, you're stuck in a box, you're thinking okay, oh, what this this is a social media protocol. But that is not really, it's, it's capable of much, much more. I mean,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

which, and I'm least interested in the social media aspect. As most of these things pop up. That's why I'm always saying, let's do something really simple, like a star. If we can all get if I can hit five stars on one podcast, and everybody else can see that on in their app. Champagne all around.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Right? Yeah. I mean, are those things like, play? Yeah. Well, that's odd. Caddys native thing that activity pub could do that you can't do through RSS to speak today. Wonders point.

Unknown

Right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Just just seems like I don't know what I do with I don't care if someone's well, maybe I do. I'm more I'm more interested in aggregate. Like what's the rating? What's the what's the what's the star rating? What is followed a lot. This is the stuff that people always think they can get from the index, which we don't have. Like how many people are subscribed to this podcast? So that stuff that was interesting,

or? Yeah, let's just leave it at that. I mean, we I think we need to pick one thing that hopefully is not comments that we all say, okay, we can implement this. And and I agree with the who said that in the Todd, I guess geek news that the podcast guru has pod chaser login here to pod chaser. And I'm never going to do that. Now I want either, I'm never going to do it. Now. And for the by the same token, if it said, log into your Mastodon, a

lot of people probably won't do that. But if it says you're logged into podcast guru, which I am, but I have some kind of I know, I have some kind of login credentials for podcast guru, because I can synchronize it somewhere or pod verse or whatever. You know, that's, I'm feeling better about that. And then what that does in the back end, if that's connecting to an activity pub, that's great. I'm just fine. Hey, I can see. I can see how many people follow this podcast.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I mean, this, that the login with POD chaser thing is a way to give a cast first party data about about listener metrics. Got it? Let's just be honest. I mean, that's what that is. But you know, so Nathan said, I'd love to hear your thoughts about the open API for podcasting data. I have got that in my notes here. And I've got a bunch of stuff to to say about that. I'm not sure we have. I can't I feel like it's gonna be a long conversation. So I'm not sure we have time to go

over it. And I actually want, I want to talk about it. I'm gonna talk about it next week. And because I may, actually, uh, may actually try to get some code up and running on that this week.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And to what is this? I'm not familiar with this. There's an open API standard for podcast synchronization.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, it's the open podcast sync API.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Never heard of.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And, well, I mean, it's very nascent, it's facing you. But I want to get I want to get a little bit more off the ground on that. I have tons of thoughts on it. And I think it's an very interesting idea. It could relate to this also. Okay, to to activity pub, I kind of want to I want to let I actually want to do some coding on it. I would not mind coming up with a

Adam CurryAdam Curry

reference server for this. And what what is this? So that means your subscriptions can sync between apps?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, subscriptions and other types of other stuff? Uh, huh. Related to, to relate it to your catalogue, and what you're doing with

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it, I think that's how I feel like we went one step forward, two steps back, but it's okay, because that happens in these iterative processes. But I just like, I just have a high level overview. And that's, if we can connect these apps together, which I'll just call federated federating. But interrupt, call it whatever you want. I think that's a big win for podcasting for the independent apps that can do it. Because everyone else would be left out in the in the in the

dust, it won't be as interesting, right? Now, then write a review, or what are you going to say, Go write a review on Spotify? Now, do that on these apps? Because then there's these other 20 apps that get the same information?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, just do it right in the app. Click on your five

Adam CurryAdam Curry

be, you know, basically a pod roll for app users.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

click on your five favorite you know, when you when I heard it on the podcast guru, that should be an activity that shows up somewhere and lead this many people heart this podcast because they like it. And then you could even drill down what else is this guy? Like? You know, I might like that other stuff. There's your discovery. That's, you know, people have this idea that YouTube's gonna give them discovery, but new,

but this is discovery native to what we're doing. And if we can do that distributed through activity pub, or the open podcast sync API doesn't really matter to me what's under the hood. But what a giant leap for mankind. That would be

Dave JonesDave Jones

great. Yeah, yes. I mean, the Yeah, and all this the open podcast sync API. I can see that being this is what I want to explore is is a sort of a need to get a mental model of how this could federate. Because I think it can. It The other thing is we want to a promise we'll talk about this on the next show. I just, we've talked about so much already. I don't I don't think I can do Hampshire handle the mental bandwidth of that. Yeah, but because of my notes are like I've got like six

levels deep in my outline here about the podcasts, he KPI. But the other thing we got to remember is people people don't always want many people, myself included don't want their the ad don't want a single identity online. Gotcha. You know what I mean? Sure, sure. You don't want to you know, I

Unknown

don't have it either. Like, I don't have it either. You know,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I want to segregate my identities out into different use cases. Like I have my podcast index, does social mass, you know, activitypub identity. If I go, if I go and have an identity within the within the sort of federated podcast app world, I don't want that I'm not going to use my podcast indexed or social Id got it, I'm going to have something different. Because I don't like I like the compartmentalization of these different things because they serve me in identities online

are meant to serve you. And they serve me in different from, they serve my needs in different ways. That's the thing that always creeps me out about this sort of digital identity stuff that d&d stuff is there's always behind it, this sort of notion that is only going to be like, universal Single Sign In. Yeah. Where You Are you everywhere and no government. Don't

Adam CurryAdam Curry

worry, the government will give you that don't worry, that's coming.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Waiting for my mail.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Exciting, and I'm looking at this open podcast API looks like a lot of people started it. We're interested antenna pod funk whale cast pod friend G Potter looks super interesting.

Dave JonesDave Jones

The first reaction to it is just use OPML. But the more I thought about it, I'm like, No, this is actually legit. This is better. This is this is better.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Can I talk about a different to interrupt project that is taking place?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, you can.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So I've had some ongoing conversations with Cody from the side stream music podcast. Now he's a radio guy who are either he still is a morning show here in Texas. And he is now putting I think it's actually there's a call of course it's happening right after today's board meeting, which I saw I can't attend their call. Now this

Dave JonesDave Jones

is this is this guy that was on the wavelength show. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that's Cody was on the was interviewed by the wavelength, guys. Yeah. Okay. And so Cody really loves it. He's a live radio guy. And he's been, I think he's now episode 25 of the sidestream music podcast. And he knows a lot of the artists and you know, he's a real driver. I mean, like, like many many of the, of the guys who have shows in the in the music in the V music space. Now he he has a good connection

friendly connection with the CEO and founder of wire ready. And wire ready is basically a radio playout system so very similar to em heirless which I use. So why already you know, it has your cards and then you can you know your soundboard, you can cue up songs, and then you can play and so for both live and recorded shows, key is now connects they're gonna have a call with I think Dobby das tins Dobby. I think Cody's already

hosted with RSS blue.com. And what they're trying to do is create a version of wire ready, which you know, typically is licensed to radio stations for not an insignificant amount. This guy wants to play value for value. So that you can you will be able to download this wire Ready program, you can then create your podcast with it, it would hook into I get in initially, I guess RSS blue.com I don't know exactly what

they're going to come up with. But the idea is, you fire this up, be say I'm looking for a song, it hits the podcast index API, just like the split kit does or any of those other things. So you can search you can cue up your songs you play him and then on the fly it tracks everything and then outputs your chapter and your value time split JSON feeds for upload to your host so we have two full days and it will also

activate you know a live stream whatever. So we'll have all in one bundle and it'll do value for value so you know he's gonna

want some value is going to want to be in the split. So at anybody can in essence download this there'll be a special podcast version And then you can go live you can record it for upload later and it will do all the allow you to search the music and do all create all the very much the way the split kit does it and then all integrated into into one application that is a professional app for wow this Yeah, isn't that cool?

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's fantastic. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yeah I'm very I'm very excited about that. So I guess read Yeah, yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I mean to it okay, we're talking talking about me that's that's pretty cool. I mean, if this if this there may be a need to get in there and fix some of the API or about around music there's some Yeah, of course there's some issues with but

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the thing is Dolby Das is in the middle so he'll he'll he already knows how to access all that stuff. He knows the the the problems so you don't you know Dobby das will contact you. And I hope I think Barry should be brought into this you know, the podcast 2.0 native hosting companies. They're really the guys that can that can work with this. But I'm

super excited. Because now you have not only something you can easily create a podcast with, you know, like a front end that you get to your host but then all this all this other music stuff is built right into it. I think that would that's going to be so exciting to

Dave JonesDave Jones

have a native sort of a native experience. Yeah, yeah. So my wife sent me this couple of days ago that she she's a fan of this guy. Allen Google. Or Google rings adventures and Australian guitar as Australian guitarist. He's He's writes beautiful music. Alan G as last name is G O G O L L. Go Gaul or something like that. Beautiful music. Just just

fantastic. Artist. And he posted this a few days ago, he says is with a heavy heart that I can confirm Apple Music has removed and blacklisted much of my music and continues to do so every day. This is a significant portion of my livelihood gone. CD Baby have been unable to help me at all. Being accused of buying fake streams for my music. There's absolutely nothing I can do to stop this. I've simply been ghosted by

Apple and CD Baby and told don't buy fake streams. They're not only accusing me of this, but carrying out permanent judgment as well. I have offered my full financial records to show that I've never paid for streams nor do I need to. And why would I continue to destroy my career like this? If I was buying fake streams in over 20 years or releasing music this is the worst experience I've ever had with no light at the end of the

tunnel. If you're a lawyer willing to help me please email me or DM me thankfully, my music is on Spotify still unaffected. So please consider listening there. This is you know, wow, what happens to happens when you're in that ecosystem? And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is no one no one to call? No one answered the phone. Yeah, no, they

Dave JonesDave Jones

all just say Sorry, can't help you. Wow. And you're potentially blind lost half your income. So I mean, having this is not this is not just all fun and games where we're all just kind of pretending you know, obviously not pretending we're we're all kind of just having a good time. Writing software. This is potentially important for for real people in the real world making real money shall we? I think having a plan B you know,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

should we help somebody out with some real money? I would love to Okay, I got a banger for you. It's a Friday afternoon bang Are You Ready? Ready? Yes all right. I'm ready for banger myself. This is the velvet I heard them on the phantom power music I thought yeah, this is perfect for Friday afternoon.

Unknown

Salmon she's my sweet she's my speech.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Ask

Unknown

she's my sweet she's my team she's my sweet

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you ready for the weekend here, the pelvic suite shapes. Everybody who went to the bathroom raise your hand.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, that was seeing the yellow pad or on buildings. That's a great name.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

If you're listening to this podcast, if you didn't boost during that song, go ahead rewind it, and you can even pause it and then just boost them. boost those guys. Let them know and let them know you heard it on podcasting. 2.0 the board meeting?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes. Brought to you by the gates in wallet switching technology. That's right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

The magic gates you and wallet switching technology. Yeah, that's good. That guy kept me awake.

Unknown

I like that. Yeah, I like you're good.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It helps wake you up after the NPR CEO. Yes, indeed. Indeed. Well, thanks for people.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, you're I mean, we can do we can do another topic if you wanted to. I mean, I How are you on time? You got to get out. Yeah, I

Dave JonesDave Jones

gotta go back to the office.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

You got a harder Okay, yeah. Let me let me bring up the life boost. Let me see what we have here. of the ego Eric pp 3333 sets for sweet cheeks played on podcasting. 2.0 Perfect. Thank you very much. dribs got 3456 He says hey, I thought that hive was the solution for all problems. It is of course the solution it is of course a solution. Brian, I'm not I'm not going to deny it. It's a solution. It is a solution. 3333 from Jean Everett's Thank you would just

says boost. Todd Cochran 1000 SATs. Adam many podcasters do not know what a right click on a mouse is or scroll on. Welcome to my world or scroll. Yeah, welcome to my world. Yes. Yeah, I understand. Yeah, I understand. But, you know, people aren't stupid. Yeah. People like to learn. Listeners certainly do audiences do. Salty Crayon 1776. Patriot boost. Here's little value to help balancing the podcasting to point no budget since the Fed has zero motivation to balance there's go podcasting.

Dave JonesDave Jones

The Fed doesn't have a budget. They just have a it's just a blank. They can just write whatever they want. And they're called monetizing the debt.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That is exactly what it is Jean Everett roadex 2222 Happy Friday. Happy Friday to you. Todd Cochran has 5000 SATs. He says I seriously need a clone go podcasting. I'll give you give me that. Well, would you look at this 5000 SATs from pod friend Martin.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Hey, Martin.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

He lives he says hello. I think I think I missed a show or 10 I've been I've been so extremely busy with life, the universe and everything. I hope everyone is doing well. Yes. We miss you Martin. Boy do I would

Dave JonesDave Jones

just like to I would just like to talk to Martin on the phone and hear about his job and

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yeah and his marriage and his house and the crazy country he lives in and you know all that stuff yeah we'd love to know I would love to get happy I saw I saw him pop up on the on the Macedon the other day

Dave JonesDave Jones

I thought I was seeing I thought I was seeing so I had to do it don't make so much someone hacked

Adam CurryAdam Curry

his account or this can't be

Unknown

yeah

Adam CurryAdam Curry

let me see we have that it Yeah, hit the delimiter low boosted today very low boosted. Yes,

Dave JonesDave Jones

it's very little but since we did as we did as Pe files, we have actually two very low paper knowledge as well. We have $5 a one off from Truman Gillette. Thank you treatment for Stage five bucks. very appreciative. And Kevin bay from the podcasting 2.0 Endowment Fund he says this is my monthly is $3.54 monthly from the endowment fund I need to grow my fund.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Grow your show grow your fund Exactly.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Todd's here he can tell you how to grow it. We got some good guess boosted we guess we got a pot home. I'm assuming that's Barry. Yeah, that's gotta be buried in 1000 SATs through podcasts. Gary says thanks for listening to about podcasting www about podcasting dot show. Great show was Sam guys.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes, it was good show. Good show.

Dave JonesDave Jones

See we got 3045 sets from Sam Sethi Speaking of the devil shows up through true fans he says true fan support from Episode 176 angel number Thank you Sam. Appreciate it. Anonymous boosting everyone see listening our song from last week says groovy yeah thank you Groovy is that is that it is surely that's not it.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Really? That's it? No

Unknown

that's not right. Can't be

Dave JonesDave Jones

Kevin Bay 20,000 SATs through pod verse he says some somehow some way 1.2 million SATs pass through my little V for V music podcast sets and sounds since I started Wow. I'm absolutely baffled by it all. And I'll spend my portion own activitypub education. Well, thank you. Appreciate that. He's He's a double helping of Kevin Bay today. And we got 3045 from Sam Sethi give us another boost

there no note from him. And then that's it. Yeah, we got we got the delimiter 24,000 SATs from chemistry bloggers saving saving the day.

Unknown

Yes, yes.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Thank you CSB.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Through fountain he says, How do you Dave and Adam. Today I'd like to recommend this podcast to your audience. Join Phoenix and phone boy for some healthy happy, higher consciousness. With some high tech high jinks on the side. Come experience the Lotus effect for yourselves at WWW dot Lotus effect dot show. Yo Josie

Adam CurryAdam Curry

pcsb always on the download. Yo Thank you very much. We did just get I see we got it. We got an x boost. Kami. Oh, hold on a second. We got two more boosts coming in. striper boost 7777 from Steve Wilkinson. Oh, CG works he says we just want healthy adds the benefits that this benefits listeners and creators I've purchased many things based on trusted podcasters a bet. And then under the wire 45,678 SATs from Dred Scott he says boost and go podcast a podcast.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Drib is a double as a repeat customer this week as he came in with our monthlies with $15 from drip.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Thank you, man. Thank you so much.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We got Shawn McCune $20 See where Matt James Sullivan $10 Christopher reamer $10 Jordan Dunnville $10 Michael Kimmerer $5.33 Charles current $5 Michael Goggin $5 and con glotzbach $5.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

What a beautiful What a beautiful bunch. Y'all are just a beautiful bunch. I really I looked at the tally coin real quick. Guess what, then? Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing from the tally. Did

Dave JonesDave Jones

we get any runes,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

runes? You know, I always my my daughter sometimes needs a little help with the rent. You know, she's a social worker these days. And so I'm like, like, Yeah, I'll send you 500 bucks, like $20 fee.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yikes through?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah. That was the

Dave JonesDave Jones

bit you do debit Bitcoin

Adam CurryAdam Curry

transfer Yeah, I like this room stuff better stop whatever this I mean I'm like, I'm like kid you better get a lightning account you better learn how to pay for stuff in lightning because this is getting crazy.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Speaking of that do we need so I've gotten in touch with strike to see if we can get into their API just for no specific reason really I just want to try to understand some I just want to get get my head around a little bit of onboarding, so maybe I can just be better informed about Oh, sure. That's always good things around that. Yeah, and I want to do we need to look at opening up maybe a set channel to strike

Adam CurryAdam Curry

we can we can open Well, I mean, yeah, I

Dave JonesDave Jones

don't know how they control that.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That's a very good question. I'm sure that the lb or the breeze boys would know I'm sure they they're all they all they all fat pipe each other. may sound weird. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound weird. Just slightly.

Unknown

Yeah. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

maybe we need it. Maybe we need the fat pipe on. I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

did get a little concerned. Over this recent was it samurai wallet. Now these guys were clearly doing something. They were advertising, like, Hey, you got illegal money that you got in Bitcoin, the gray markets and black markets will mix it up for you. All right. That's never a good idea. Not a good. But the. But there's all kinds of government institutions saying hey, you know, the, you're not a money transmitter, you don't have a money transmitter

license, you got to be careful. So I'm just saying, We got to be careful with that stuff.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, that's, I kind of want to get my head around some of that and make sure that's not

Adam CurryAdam Curry

really clear, as always, with all this stuff, but some of the writing is obvious on the wall that the main thing is if you can do it with accountability, and KYC just made a mean that your bank should basically be the witches, I think is what strike really does. I mean, you you do have a some KYC connection when you hook up striker to your bank. You know, it's like, yeah, you

Dave JonesDave Jones

have your walkie strike. KYC is you I mean, you have to give them the right info.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So you know, I think that that's just going to be a given in our future. And the, you know, the idea of anonymous money in this world is going to be very, very difficult. Unless everyone's on a Bitcoin standard. You know, it's like we only buy and sell stuff in Bitcoin, which I do in many respects, for lots of stuff. But it's just kind of going to be a fact of life. I don't think we can get around it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

While I love Rob, I can I can say this about Rob because he doesn't listen to the show.

Unknown

Love to the show. Really?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. He said he doesn't listen to the show. He said. He said, Yeah, okay. Kay said occasionally

Adam CurryAdam Curry

haters, haters over there. Yeah. Well,

Dave JonesDave Jones

he told Todd. He told Todd that Bitcoin was illegal in India and this is not true. Illegal is not illegal in India. Illegal is India. This is fake news. It's their bank. Banks over there do heavy KYC on crypto stuff, but it's not illegal. It's not any more illegal than it is in the US or the UK.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah. That's right. I put Rob's most recent article in the show notes. Did you Wow. Because I thought the title was just show notes worthy. is adding video the future of successful podcasting strategy.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, he didn't put that in the show notes. Of

Adam CurryAdam Curry

course I do. Of course. Oh, because you know, enhances your monetization potential. It first it personalizes and it personalization and complexity and storytelling, video podcasts offer a rich platform for storytelling. You can have synergy with social media trends. I'm reading it. Yes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Can you please play the Katherine Mark lips again because there's more interesting.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I appreciate Rob. I appreciate it, but I just don't see it. No,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I hadn't.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I just don't see. I just don't see it. Wow. Okay. So I, again, this was one of those board meetings where we got in deep and, and I feel like we did get one step forward, maybe two steps back but it sounds like you're going to be doing some deep dives and we're going to come up with some more stuff and I look forward to lots of Convos on the past I'd cast index dot social. Everybody likes to weigh in. I love that. I love that. Yeah, we're a little area there.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Got some more namespace stuff to do this week and hopefully I'll have some. Hopefully I'm going to I'm going to have a better fleshed out idea about open podcast because I want to talk about that primarily next week. Okay.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Do we have a guest next week? Oh, good. Okay. Just you and me baby. Just the two of us just to say brother had yourself a great weekend. All right, everybody. Thank you for being here in the board meeting. We'll be back next week Friday. See you then.

Unknown

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org For more information, go podcast

Dave JonesDave Jones

so that we can do hard stuff

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