Episode 175: Everyone's an Actor

On casting 2.0 For April 2024, episode 175 Everyone's an actor Hey, hello, everybody, welcome to podcasting. 2.0 Before we get started That's right. Once again for the official board meeting of podcasting and podcasting 2.0 We got it all happened here everything going on a podcast index.org one is up with podcasting two.org podcast index dot social. And of course we are the only boardroom that

Hang on one sec. I'm sending a boost.

What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing?

I'm seeing the booster pod news weekly review. Oh, rich guest or OKC rich guest or a pod casts network.

I thought exactly the same thing. And I'm like, okay, so rich guy starts a podcast network thinks he can monetize the network hires five celebrities, one of which was the host of Big Brother UK. And boy, it's gonna be different.

This time, it's gonna rip this time.

This time, it'll really work.

For you all the times it didn't this. This one's different.

I mean, is this guy basically the British Mark Cuban is that isn't he from Dragon's Den?

That seems like exactly what this this is fireside chat all over again. Or whatever that thing was. Well, actually he'll get Okay. Okay. I know. We don't have a red book for predictions. Yeah. I don't know what we have. But I want to make a prediction. Right. Okay. April the 12th at 12:35pm.

Here we go. All right.

Steven Bart. Bartlett. Yes. Will will be the keynote speaker at next at Podcast Movement. Next year. Maybe this year. sometime within the next two years, he will be a keynote speaker at Podcast Movement, aka you know, Allah, Mark Cuban.

The only thing that that I thought I might make this a little bit different is it's not just flight studio, which is their podcast, podcast network. But they have flight story. Which is Oh, it's a it's a marketing communications company. So so they'll be making branded podcasts pretty soon. Hey, look at all these stars. Look at all the stars. We can have host your content. Yeah. This

is so the I

mean, it's just so obvious that this has been done over and over again and it just keeps failing. This

is not a pod casts network. This is a let's be honest, this is a YouTube Play is what this is. Yeah.

Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

First excuse me video. Code for YouTube. Because that's the only video that even matters at all in any anywhere in the world. You got one video platform, YouTube. That's it. Well,

I will say I saw something today. I boosted it. I boosted it on podcast index dot social distinct called own cast. Own catheter. Cast yes own cast is a I guess to make it simple. It's like Twitch for activity pub.

I didn't see this poster of yours. Where's Adam at? Private?

That's right. I was boosting myself. Yeah, well, you can go to own cast. Oh, Oscar whiskey November owned cast dot online boon cast.on

Oh TLD on cast dot online. friable Yeah, yeah, no, this isn't this a fork of something.

I don't know.

Maybe I'm wrong. That

could be your live stream can reach a wider audience on the fediverse allowing people to follow and share your stream on Mastodon and other fediverse services. So I saw this and I thought, oh, that's me. I know they do HLS video streams or whatever it is. It just made me excited again about social interact and how powerful we will be when we start to implement some of this. I'm just going to start talking in the different holes now. We will we will have our yes

Grow your show.

All right, you just blew everything grow your show. Your show? Well, actually, yeah, you could grow your show. I mean, it it's becoming, it's the point where like, I'm gonna have to build an app, because I want other person

to Adam, please build an app.

And it'll be me and Sam Southie doing this.

Please, please build it.

I mean, I mean, I see so much possibility. Imagine if I mean, all the all the cross pollenization where you can, you can literally grow your show. I hate to say it. But in fact, we just kind of hijack that grow. Your show was socially interact. Of course, you can grow your show. Because then you can see across apps as an app developers like, hey, I can I can surface stuff that people are following or subscribe to on all apps, not just mine, on all apps. Now I can see ratings. I think, I

Actually best if it's not comments.

I agree.

I agree. I don't know what that means. But, but

I like it. I like it felt like Yeah, it feels good. If you say

things that you feel, and you figure out what they mean later,

I mean, it's just just subscribe numbers. Just subscribe, hey, I subscribe this stuff, interactions

as well, you're talking to them like, immediately, I started thinking about what airhead posted the other day?

What I usually read his stuff, what do you post? He,

he was talking about audio books. And he was saying that he was having a hard time finding any apps that supported audio books in the way that you would expect them to be supported. And sorry, I just why don't you just find this post and

what did you do? That

just had an add moment? Comment from John Spurlock testing

audio book support are there and the apps I've tested so far show the chapters in the order they show up in the RSS feed ignoring both the episode numbers and the order display director for Are there any afterwards? This works? Okay. I understand. Okay.

Yeah. Basically, there's there's there's production of audio book taking place podcast. But there's no apps that read those feeds as if they were what they're supposed to be and audio. Yeah. So there's no, there's no audio book app. There's what is when he writes, right, right. And that's a problem that needs to be solved. It's too bad. And I'm going to do it. I'm going to solve if nobody else has a problem. I'm going to write an audio book.

Why don't you and I just build an app, you

build the app that you said you wanted to

build? You build the app. Now. Let's build the app together. So I'll be like, This is how we do it. David, you go. Okay. And like we always do it.

Hey, should do this. Okay.

We did it for 12 years, by the way, we're on episode 175. I think we are officially three and a half years into this thing. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, three and a half years, I think.

Yeah. I didn't get you anything.

Sorry. I sent you a very expensive gift as I always do. You did? Not.

Sir. Three weeks or three years, six month anniversary, sweetheart. I'm not. I'm not actually joking about that. I mentioned this to somebody probably a while back. And I really do want to write an audio book app. Yeah. Yeah. I want to just get a basic something out there. Because nobody seems interested. And, and you know, we're not we're not competing with apps here. That's anathema. But if it's, what I'm talking about is something that does purely

And in this audio book app, do you envision chapters? Or is it episodes of an audio book and an audiobook be something that is serialized so so so for instance, let's say Adam liked that idea so much that he wanted to create his audio book of his life, which is

the subtitle will help you have a working subtitle Yes, yes,

yes. held hostage by my hair is the subtitle my life my life in media held hostage by my hair. Yes, that is my title. My

Autobiography will be Dave Jones. Oh crap.

So if you build the app, I'll record the book. Okay, yeah, for sure. For sure it's

a it's a deal handshake handshake

it is right but But going back to social interact I just don't know how to motivate people I think that I'm just I'm just flapping in the wind like curry doesn't know what he's talking about. He's got no ideas yet these ideas are never any good.

That's why the audio book thing piqued my he like popped up into my head is because when you when you sit it's like, there can be discussions about audiobooks There you go audiobooks. Comments are clearly but then there's also going to be like, I can see like recommendation activity public recommendation engines and stuff like that that could come out of it. You know,

I hate to say this, but I'm gonna say thank you. Thank you for the boost interruption pew pew. What's been on my mind a lot lately and and please take this with, with the love that I'm saying this. Advertising has been on my mind a lot. And I wouldn't say advertising is the right word. But underwriting underwriting corporate sponsorship advertising, call it whatever you want. Because while we all see that the advertising model for podcast is severely broken,

Yeah, so the the ad so are you talking about are you talking about advertising as far as in listens and stuff like that? You don't the accuracy of all that kind of thing? Yeah. Based on like, well, there's,

there's a couple of things. But first of all, I love the DI direct inquiry. I love it when someone I mean, we know agenda as an example. So we have Linda Lou Potkin who donates $200 Every show she'd be doing it for over two years now, I think. And all she says is you know what, I think she has a resume she does executive resumes. And she doesn't she doesn't, you know, I don't even remember what the what the

But I don't know what you mean. Like,

what I mean, or what I mean, is that the advertising is not working on podcasting, because there's no way to measure success. Right, by implementing things that allow the users to feed back, like I listened to this, or, Hey, we could do right now in a Chapter, you know, look at your phone right now. Click on the link in the chapters.

I think as a way, let me see. Let me see if I understand what you're saying. Because there's lots of barf going on in the chat room. Yeah. Because,

yeah, I understand that. But you know, you're idiots. Go ahead and circle around like a bunch of turns into pisspot. The opportunity is huge right now. I'm not going to do I'm not going to do advertising. But there's millions of people who want this. And they're going to YouTube. Great. Meanwhile, Mitch, Mitch is struggling. Everybody's struggling, because there's no money coming in.

I think I understand what you're saying, though. But I think what you're, if I understand it, you're saying that the the way advertising is, is has been done is traditionally always been done within podcasting. That method clearly does not work Correct. For night, let's just say for 99% of podcasters. That does not work. And that is an end. So we've, we've lumped when we talk about advertising, we talk about it in those terms. But there is another way. The in the other

table. Why not? Yeah.

Because like, it's like somebody? Well, I mean, think about it. That's what isn't.

Do you hate your Do you hate your television? Because you can also watch a channel with ads? No, you just don't watch the channel with ads.

Okay, well, maybe I'm still Mr. Just because because what I'm thinking is like, I mean, people, pot page, by page sins, 25 bucks to US a month to help us out. Because they because Brendon over there appreciates what we were doing here. But also it helps. It's an advertisement for him. Like I mean, he gets we say that we say that we say pod page, every shirt shirt is so like, it's not I think I think I understand. I think I'm understanding that you're saying value for value is

I think you're correct. Okay, sir. Cal from lavender, Lavender blossoms.org. I mean, we haven't lost people, because these people come in and donate. We haven't lost that boat. I have no way to help them. measure the success of what they're doing.

Do but Right. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. And also how to write but they evidently can, because they keep doing it. Well, they are they have a feel for

an ROI. They have an ROI that obviously is working somehow. But beyond that, but beyond that. Podcast stats, they're useless. They really are. They're useless. If I ask people, Hey, I'd like to know who's listening. Could you could you could you toggle that button in your app, people will do it. But I'm not asking you to send me your your life. I'm just saying, Hey, I just want to know if you listen to something how

Yeah, I think I think I understand what you're saying. It's a way you can say, well, it's this, this goes back to that way of thinking where you say, like the Apple, Microsoft thing we, we don't have to, they don't have to lose for us to win.

Yeah, you can say that. You can say that.

Yeah. Because you say, Well, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to change or my content or censor my content or anything like that. I'm still in control of my content. And if you want to participate in value for value as an advertiser, you're free to you're welcome to do so. You're more than you're more than Yes. Yes. We're glad for you to participate. But you're not. But we're not going to do. But we're not going to be quote, ad supported. No, not. Oh,

yeah. Again, again, television cable. So it's all great platforms. Right? It's great platforms. I don't hate it because there are channels on that platform that shabads I

in you know, and we're kind of just speaking for us on this, you know, show in the podcast index, we were kind of already doing that. Because if, like, I mean, that might we're doing that mindset, because people ask us from time to time, like, you know, hey, can we use the index? Or can we do this kind of thing, and they want to have some sort of

that, Dave, just as a platform was just think out of the box for a second. And for me, there's, you've got an RSS feed with enclosures, whether that's music, whether that's an audio book, whether it's whether it's a long form podcast, whether it's a Bible sermon, whether it's you just doing Gregorian chants, that's a podcast, I don't care. I don't

Did you know I mean, I get where you're coming from on the technology side of that with activity pub. And the way that that could could enable something like that as the attribution and stuff. I just, it's like, but once you go down that road, then you're, then that's where the that's where the scam start. And that's where the fraudulent what scam? What

were you talking about?

Are you talking? You're talking about enabling some sort of attribution over activitypub? No, no, I'm

talking about attribution. No, no, no. Like a social interact. Yeah, social interest. So yeah, so but that's not that's not to attribution. I have no interest in attribution. I'm talking about social interact. Yes, I like this. Yes. I've subscribed to this. Yes. So follow this. Here's what I have

You're just saying you're saying that those new ways are interacting with the show through activity pub channels.

Well, whatever. I don't know if you call it channels or whatever, whatever. Yeah, I mean, it just seems to me the word is the whole world is connecting to activity, pub. And all and I mean, why can't we, when I see that, what is it called? own caste? I'm like, huh, there's something there. But shouldn't an own cast and all that if it's a twitch like experience, should that flow into my podcast app? Or do I know have to go to an own cast webpage?

Well, I mean, peer to peer tube is fully identity pub enabled ensures that. Sure.

And, and all this stuff works on my app I've been I hate to think, oh, there's video. Okay, that works fine. But I can't do like the own cast live chat. No.

Well, okay, well, let's, let's let's twist here into that, because awesome. Oskar, ping me on email and said that his noster fountain live chat relay thing is, is open, and he's got some instructions on how that's how that works. So I will be starting to bridge that as soon as possible, so that we can get the get live chat.

In I wish I wish we had I wish we had the same energy that that 10s of developers are putting into noster as we in activity pub.

I really do. We do know, there's the Oh, I think I think I think you're mistaken on that. I mean, the energy, the energy of activity Pub is 1000 to one versus noster and because it's just distributed

no one you but no one's putting that into our apps. Instead

of having a 15 developers working on stuff and nostre you have you know, 1500 developers working on stuff and activity pub, except for our developers. Right? Oh, yes. Yes. Okay. I misunderstood your point. Yeah. Are the the 2.0 people seem well, I mean, the ones that are the ones that are super active right now into being nostril related but Oh,

yes. I mean we have we have true fans and this is what I like about Sam Sam is implementing a lot of stuff but there's no one else is doing it. So he just kind of out there in the whim flapping away. Well,

that's what I'm trying to bring. That's what I'm trying to bring the nostril fountain stuff over to activity pub, that's what I'm trying to bridge everything over is because that you know, there there's one I want to take that energy you know, and instead of it just like evaporating into the void, redirect it back redirect that nostril development energy back into activity pub ecosystem, I gotcha so that we can get the benefit of and it doesn't just like I

got you. But that's that's basically just Colorado

forgot about Cassiopeia. Yeah,

I mean, yeah, what is in Castle is? What is

fully activitypub enabled from the ground up to everything,

as opposed to Yes. As a hosting site. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So you know, it's there. But we I don't I just don't understand why we haven't connected at all because it to me, it's like I just see this super, super opportunity for the for app developers.

What do you think about it, though? I kind of it kind of makes sense of what, of where we are as far as what, you know, we're. I see. I see. I see. Everything isn't it isn't a very strange place. Because I failed. Dave, understatement of the universe. The universe. Yeah, the you have this. Say, Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, you had Twitter, and Twitter.

Okay, I completely agree. And so but here's the exception that that gets me all excited when I go to podcast index.org and I go to this show, or any of my shows, really, and I click on comments, it doesn't look like a social network. It doesn't feel like Mastodon or Twitter or threads. It looks like oh, there's some cool comments that that's the

What did I say this the ad pours?

Well, I'm throwing the ads part in because the the marketing part. Because there's, that's where you can reignite something and reignited around our apps and take it away from the other so called I mean, it's bull crap, it's all bull crap. But if if we start to build value amongst each other, and amongst our apps will become valuable.

This is a thing that's hard for us, I think that we're running up against the limits of language here. But I think that I fully follow what you're saying. And I think I think I'm saying it that way, because it's always difficult to tell because you have to, you have to take a set of thoughts that are in your own mind and distill them into language, and then community and then Trent, you know, give them to me and I have to, you know, and distill them yes, and try to mate and

is a warm gun. Dave Jones.

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Sorry little John Lennon reference. I'm

sorry. Okay. Okay. I didn't get the reference. So the Yes, yeah. So that can Yeah, you know, you happiness sometimes is your sort of gateway to being annoyed. And the the, the annoying part is the commit is this sort of endless communication that happens back and forth. And I don't like the social aspect of it, if it feels artificial. It feels like an

versions of this. Fountain has their version of that, but they're completely closed. You die can see what so and so boosted, I can see what so that I can follow someone follow those profiles. It's the number one app out of usage, I think for sure. To

see that still, that's still a version of chat, that's still a version of just commenting

I don't know. But that's not what I'm interested in. What I'm interested in is following a person for what they're listening to. That's the thing that is if I could say one thing that we could do with activity pub, it would be that you can, as a user, you can say, Okay, here's, here's the, here's the podcast I'm subscribed to, and anybody can follow me. It'd be something that I could publish, you know, we've all had these, um, you know, automatic posts, I'm listening to so and

Yeah. Yeah. And this is, in this is, that's really what where the strength is. And it's just been I was looking through this big list of activity pub projects here in this link, and there's like 9% of them are just Mastodon clones

at just as an example. When so I have boosted Graham ball. I mean, man, there's gotta be a way to have activity published activity pub, published about first of all the songs that I'm playing. They should be able to tie in easily to wherever that song lives easily to that artists profile easily to where that artist likes to meet their fans. So if artists wants to have that all flow through to a chat or is this just called a chat, whatever meeting place, close

You're shuttled off with Betsy. here's and here's what that looks like, though, is because you could this is where I think this is important. Rather than just post a note, so activity pub theory, your

show beer.

Right activity pubs notes, are what get posted on. Like, when the act when the podcast index AP bridge posts a new episode, you're getting a you're creating a note is what the object is called. And you rather than here's the critical part, I think is rather than just posting a note that says This song was just played on this grand ball, that is possible, but you also posed a customer, it's a new type of object, you create a new type of object. With that's more that's

there's a perfect example. Perfect example. Yes.

Which has been problematic, it's hard. It's a hard. This is not that people have struggled with with connecting to this web to the live web socket to see the split kit changes. So a split kid is outputting activity pub. And then the split kit actor, for booster grand ball can just be subscribed to or followed, excuse me. And then those those split kid events can be multiplexed in a way that they can't easily in a or at all in a in a single WebSocket connection.

And think of all the richness of the data. Pod roles. I mean, all of this can, you can just traverse the tree, basically, whatever that event is, whatever that podcast event is into activity, pub. There's all kinds of stuff that can be done with that by other apps. And you can you can, you know, to me just as a non app developer, it's like, oh, look at all this data that I can use, I can surface somewhere instead of kind of the things that we've had for the past 20 years with

it sort of but this is a good follow up to our, to the insanity, which was last week's boardroom?

Well, yes, perfect example. Yes.

Because what what Bouverie does on a consistent basis is similar to that, that old thing that we saw where you would go to a website and had a live like webcam video of some

That's the vision that is exactly the vision antenna

pod, which is a great FOSS application, podcast app that we don't talk enough about antenna pod had a call for contributors this week for 2.0 features like cross app comments and stuff like that they want people open source developers to help contribute 2.0 features to antenna BOD and this is this is a perfect opportunity for for them to add some are for for contributors to add stuff like that in

yeah and I would just say social interact that I think cross app comments is death. The name is Death is just down

the years death is death. That's a good point. Social

interact. That's the name of the tag is called Social interact.

Thank God we didn't call it comment. Ah, worst word

that would have been the worst. Yes. So that's my pitch it just seems that this is we have a band and orchestra of very interesting people you know, people bring all their own instruments we've got a guy with a washboard someone's playing spoons, we got a banjo we got five and drove on the Joe I've drummers jug. Exactly. And I'd love to make the music all play together. Because we're via we're now into Phase seven, we're doing tags. And you know, a lot of them are not

mean, it goes live Yeah,

I mean, start my vacuum cleaner. I don't know. I mean, it can can be anything I'm just saying that I see I'm from the future. I see social interact in activity pub as something huge. Really, really big. This something I believe even Marco could get in on

Yeah. Yeah, there already do. We need to Enough talk to Alex about bridging pod ping over to activity pub before too and that that seems like an important thing to me. I don't know if you

don't we basically have that already. We have we have the live The Live account that just pops up, he's talking about something else. I'm just

talking about in general. So they put things. So the pod pings sort of cross pollinate over to activity posts so that you can follow. I mean, I'm just an act, you know,

I'm still looking for me as an app user, I want to do something on this app that publishes some events somewhere. That's what I want. It doesn't have to be a comment. That's, that's the lowest level shittiest fruit tastes bad is usually bad as whatever. That's the lowest. Yeah,

I think that's probably what's also kept people as they can people. I mean, developers think that's probably what's also kept 2.0 developers from doing more with the social interact tag is because it's like, comments. That's kind of boring.

Yeah. Or, or a pain in the butt.

But like, it's, it's just not. It's just, I think everybody's, there's a general Oh, people are just over it. So with social media, sure,

sure. I'm completely understand. I just, I don't see 20 apps, I see an entire connected infrastructure, that can be something much bigger. By communicating inter app. The simplest things, follow the subscribe, rate, even those who just start with those two, just those

gentlemen about what Amanda pod pings being bridged is that if you had pod pings coming through as Nick, coming through his native activity pub objects, then you could just say like, you could subscribe, or excuse me, Fox, keep saying the word subscribe. I mean, follow. You could follow a podcast actor. And then just, excuse me, you could follow you could follow some sort of actor that represents your podcast playlist. And then then you can just follow that like, Okay,

so what you're Oh, interesting. So what if I'm following you what you're saying is this could be a great benefit to developers, because now you have a different alert mechanism that is probably more responsive, more robust than almost anything else that polling. Right.

So what happened? Yes. So what happens now is So what happens now is things you think about so cast ematic is good example. I think I think cast Matic I think antenna podcast thematic are similar in that they do not have back end infrastructure. I think they are standalone apps. Everything happens on device on one device, right? So imagine that so the

Yes,

that's true. That could just Dave at podcasts and desktop social. And this this account also follows all these podcasts. But instead of coming through as text items as notes, they also come through as something like a pod ping object. So that when, when cast ematic is canoe is, is following your account, they get these pod pings, do they see the poppings Ping objects as they come in in the timeline. And it's just receiving these notifications, essentially, that there's a new

is what I like about this conversation, because this is how this is the creativity of developers. That you will come up view and others will come up with ideas that will not be baked up by me. You know, there will be new ideas that pop out of this once once we make those connections. And again, so that's still not really interacting between communities, but it's a start, there will be a start to get to get activity

Remember? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was the best part. And

that wasn't a publisher. That was just some rando dude who had Napster running? That was so cool. Yeah. Then you'd actually you'd work with people and we connect. Hey, man, I'm downloading now. Can you hold off for a second so I can get my songs faster? I mean, it was it was it was a real community based thing. You really was. Without that?

Without Yeah, yeah. And that Napster would have. If it had had chat, it would have

it would have killed it probably had destroyed it. Yeah. Yeah.

That's, that's the Yeah, the non textual non chat aspect of activity. Pub is what we need to leverage in 2.0. And make, yeah, make us make a first class citizen of

Yes. And make the user make the user be the communicator and the receiver, not just the podcast publisher. Yeah, give that user something to do. Give that user something to discover. I mean, that pod ping is pod. Pod roll is kind of the beginning of that, but it's still coming from. Okay. You like this? This show? Here's what here's what else we

Yeah, a clip should be an actor. Yes. Yes.

And follow up follow the clips I made that what who else listen to this clip. Where did it go? That

that's probably the best sort of inroad into this in as far as mental framework goes is what what thing is what would happen if everything consider what the world would look like? If the thing you're talking about was itself an actor? What if the episode was an actor would if the US listener was an actor with a podcaster? Everything's the world is the clip the transcript Yeah,

transcript and great idea could be an actor totally.

The world the world's an instance and we're merely actors, you know, that that's if everything it just think of the weirdest thing about the, the smallest like node in your in your, in your idea in which what if that was the actor That's where things get kind of weird and beautiful. that's out there. This I think is cool, man.

I think it's great. I mean, should can't even be if you think about it. I can't even each chapter be an actor. Potentially. Yeah, that's what you can interact with this with the chapter by itself.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's got chapter art. So there's your avatar. Yeah, it's good. It's

alive. Yes.

Like there's he could do. That's where things get interesting is when you start to think about non humans as actors.

So we just decide we banned comments for now.

Yeah, comments off the table. Comments are banned.

Good. I like it. I'm excited now officially, officially, no comments.

No comment.

And you know, I'm feeling people like Andrew grommet. You know, these are people are going to start messing around with this. Because they're, they're curious and creative.

We need we need to do some namespace talk. Well,

just so happens, I have. Where's my, oh, here we go. And now it's time for some hot namespace talk. Jennifer had some kind of meltdown. So she wasn't able to get our new jingles. But actually, yes, she posted some picture and I was like, what is that? That doesn't look good. I was like, Are you being electrocuted right now? Um, I guess she has some kind of hum in the machine. So if you need help, damn, Jennifer, let us know. I'll jump in.

So the publisher feeds is we have we have two as a reminder, as a reminder, phase seven ends on is closes on June the first so we're, we're getting there. You know, we got about a month and a half to go before we're going to shut down phase seven and start digging through the digging through the flotsam and figuring out what goes and you know what, in what stays pumped. So there's two clear things that people need in

If if you think I need one then we probably all need one.

I don't know. You may be you may be fully uh, you may be fully engaged and up to date on this. I don't know. But if so that the idea just run it's worth running up. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Okay. So the idea here is that you have you want to have this idea of a publisher where don't get too hung up on the name publisher is just an it's just a name names are not that big of a deal. So publisher fee I'm sorry, Daniel. Publisher feeds are this concept of having the the entity that

I've all the crap I need to do more podcasts. You

need more pa you don't have so you have you publish five you Adam curry as the publisher published five podcast feeds. You need your own feed. That read For instance, those five feeds. And that's in that feed that feed that references, all your feeds is going to be called the publisher

I was just gonna say sounds OPML ish. Yeah, so in

the freedom patrol, we had an OPML in our XML namespace for the OPML. document. And we had this idea of a disposition attribute. So on each outline node, in the XML, there was a thing called disposition equals. And the two possible values were pub or sub, right. And so if I have a single OPML document that represents me, this is Dave's OPML. Dog,

right, I think we call it S OPML. Yeah, social OPML.

Right. So that was the SOP ml namespace, this is very similar. So you would have, except you're leaving out the sub part, you're just saying, Okay, I have a RSS feed. And in that feed, I'm going to list all of the RSS feeds that I publish. And so then in the to, to sort of complete the loop there. On those feeds that are being referenced to those five Adam curry feeds. You also put in a link back to the publisher feed.

I interject an ad? Yes. RSS blue.com/music. There's now a new path, whether you're doing a show or an artist or whatever you want with music, RSS blue.com/music.

That was a freebie. That's right. So that's the way that that's the way that it currently. The idea is, so then the issue here is on the feed side itself, not the publisher feed but on the on the podcast feed, right, because we need that reference back. You need the reference back in the way we had, where we had originally, we bounced round a couple of things. And where I had landed was I initially was like, I don't think we need to have a publisher tag, we can just have

I've heard that noise before, it's usually not a good sign.

And so but then I started thinking about it more than like, you know, I think he, I think he might be, right. This is not really a right or wrong issue. This, I just, I just think I like the way that that feels better. And here's the reasons. I don't like the way atom at O M, Atom feeds. I don't like I've never liked the way that they use link tags. So Atom feeds have a bunch of link tags with different rel equals into two different differentiate what their, what their

meanings are. That's where rel equals mi comes from.

Well, no, that's different. That's, that's a link mess of metadata ahead. Yeah. Disregard, disregarded. So I don't like the way that that is because what it makes you have

Can I Can I ask a crazy question?

The crazier the better?

Why aren't we just using OPML for this?

Yeah, that that came up, except that OPML everything in podcasting is geared towards RSS. On the subscription front. And it's just, it would be such it would be a big it'd be a heavy lift to make people parse OPML. Okay, because let's be honest, oh, P mails a weird based.

I always loved it.

Now, I love it, too, but it's a weird one. I mean, it's a weird, dude. Well,

for sure people don't know the true power of it. They only no list of RSS feeds.

Yeah. Like, everything's an outline tag. Yeah, that's that. I think it just blows people's minds. Okay, so all right, but yeah, so it's a way that I think that we kind of already do this with with media. See, like, value recipient? Yeah, that can have a remote item in it. You know, in a value time split and these kinds of these. It's rare that the remote item lives on its own unless it's in a playlist medium. And so I think I think it makes sense. If I think

agenda. He's got an agenda.

I got an agenda. It's in, it's in, it's got to do with publishers. And we're going to end I'm going to push that on podcast, index dot social and GitHub, and hopefully we can get that one over the finish line.

So just while we're on this briefly, where do we fit in the concept of tags for music? Because I promised that bring this up.

Yes, I've got that on my notes as well. I'll house hoping to talk about that next week with Sam. Ah, yes, thanks. He's

got a lot to say about that weird idea.

I don't think we're far away from this. I don't think that there's much that we have to do, because we've already hashed out so much of it in the past. But I think it'd be good to have a verbal conversation about it with him next week. And I think, here's, I think we can get all of this done by June 1.

Okay,

so another month and I think we're, I think we're because people are already building it. Wave lakes already putting they're building both of these, they're gonna have these things. shippable this month? Clean this is this is happening. Publisher

publisher feeds?

Yeah. And categories,

or tags are excellent. Excellent. I gotta tell you, I was listening to phantom power music. Our I think it is there's like a million phantom power podcast, and named for a podcast and he had on. I think the guys from the trusted, which are a bunch of British guys didn't even realize that. And the you just listening to them? Used to them? They're like, Oh, yeah, this Nasr thing, they don't even know what

are you gonna play a song today?

I have a song if you if you want to you want you want to hear song? Yeah. Is it the trusted No, it's not the trust but you might want to hold on to your to your britches for this one right I picked this one just for you Dave. It says the retro grade as heard on booster Grand Ball in many other places it's I need a little

again CZ Houston is over guys

Are you

busy used to?

cruising around Hello girls I got my stereo crank just for you the retrograde I need a little Yeah, it's good, isn't it?

Yeah, I like that. That prompted you for the music because I was had to pee right.

That's what we do in radio.

I'm a real radio guy, shall we?

Thanks some people here Dave Jones. We should think

some people in and out Oberto in the in the boys and girls calm Oh $1,000

stock Carla 20 is blades on him.

Advertising can beat that.

Adam and Dave, here's some value back at you and the podcast in Tupelo, all stars. Thank you everyone for your time of talent. Treasure. It's very time talent treasure. Let's get together in Fredericksburg. One of these days smoked beef shake. Oh,

I get it. I like that idea. Yeah. We need a friend meet up for sure. For sure. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you. The hosters are always the big supporters. Let me go through a couple of the the boosts booster grams that came in during the show. I heard a lot of pews. 7777 little striper boost from circus media boost on episode 175 Go music podcasting. And there's big 10,000 SATs from music mama. She says we can feel it. That's Ames this mom. We can feel it. I can

early. That's what I meant subconsciously.

Another 10k from Sam Sethi from true fans. I'm working hard to link activity stream to activity pub. You and Dave have invented the new ad model but just don't know it yet. VTS SATs and remote item we will have activity stream to activity pub working to demo next week. Good because I don't understand anything that we just said. Fun. I'm excited I I'm excited. Hey Dave, whatever it is we invented it just so you know we did we invent it before you know what the wiki pedia

An enthusiast. Yeah, just my favorite. My favorite tweet ever from you. It hands it hands down is Spotify. Put out a tweet that said Tell us about your RSS. Tell us about No. Tell us about your podcasting, relationship, your relationship to podcasting. It was just one of those engagement getters. Tell us about your relationship to podcasting and you replied and said invented it.

Oh, there you go. Not Not according to the Wikipedia though. Bro. Ducks from Dave Jackson coming in from Casta Matic gonna try this again from Castle Matic speaking of marketing, advertising and coffee. I still say censeo after I burp. Thanks, Adam. How do I get deeper? How do I get the pro deprogrammed? You can't that's going on on 18 years that people that was that was my advertising test and it still works never

And you don't have to make it now.

Sam Ceci with 1000 SATs cough we support medium equal Audrey audio books will work with her head to understand the problem the issue was finding feeds Okay, that should be that should be solvable. Yep. Eric pp roadex went to 22 he was interesting he boosted it boost wow that's weird. He boosted a song. I don't know how that even worked. I don't know what do you what add something showed up from curio Cassatt? I'm not sure what's going on. Eric PP and other 3333 We've got a hit the

Pod verse, Mitch and Kreon over in collibra pod verse $50. Whoa,

thank you very much.

For that shots call off 20 blades on am Paula thank

you much.

Eric. BP says he doesn't know what he did either. Beats Music podcasts and $33.33 three Thank you. says how the boardroom boardroom Dave, it's that time of the year for tornado chasing yes it is. It absolutely is gracious. Here's a little donation to help top off your climate change and help keep the lights on go podcast go

podcasting as you

see we have Jesse Anderson $33 No note thank you Jessie. Alright, and that's our paper towels. We got some boosts

boost boost. Boost boost boost boost boost motion here we go. By the way I just say I'm loving it Barry who's doing the all about podcasting podcast.

Yeah, yeah.

He's cool podcast.

He is alive. Live Event guy. Yeah. He loves doing those things.

Yeah, he's got. He's interviewing everybody. It's great. I love that. Love that what you're doing

6969 from Pei citizen, through pod verse. He says pugnacious boost that's when blueberry takes 10%

Yeah, blueberry in the split for today. So enjoy blueberry. Okay,

yeah, you could double up there you go. See we got Alan C Paul. Da boost this is great interview with blueberry and the song sold me on checking out the concert God

There you go. 12 rods it was a big success.

Advertising through V for V. Loc we got rusty Calavera posting the see through cast ematic he says Midwest is best.

True I can True that.

Say we get another one of those and oh god the delimiter comic strip blogger 22,000 SATs fan Anthony says, howdy fellow simulation dwellers, Adam and Dave, as an agnostic, I think that the likelihood of us living in a simulation is greater than the truthfulness of the religious beliefs centered around Jesus. However, if you hold the belief that Christ is king, then I encourage you to subscribe to Adam and Tina Curry's podcast, where they talk about Jesus

Thank you so much CSP he I love it. It's the only person I know who boosts and of course it's advertising just just just pointing it out. advertising

for others he's never selfish. He

never never never asked for himself once in a while. It's CSB dot lol but then that's true and far between Thank you very much comics for Blogger. You got any monthlies Dave?

Yeah got some monthlies. Basil Philip $25 Thank you basil got Lauren ball $24.20 Mitch Downey $10 Thank you Mitch. Christopher horrible Eric $10 Terry killer $5 and Chris Cowan $5

Well, thank you all so much for your contributions to podcasting. 2.0 it keeps everything running all the servers all the polars all the machines the social we don't that thing is that thing is chugging along sometimes.

How expensive is it now?

I think we're up to 9085 or 90 bucks a month

ish

yeah but it's really data I mean it's storage it's we had to build the database it's I love maths though dot host things a great outfit. I've purchased many Mastodon services from Mastodon hosts it works very well but I've never seen downtime. Never

one one other thing as far as the arsa.com donation reminded me that we are working behind the scenes with your arm where I'm having talks periodically with Roberto from our sister calm and Tom over Buzzsprout in which trying to kind of come up with a with an idea for how to fight the spam feeds.

Yes, yes. Good idea. Very good. Yeah.

Everybody's got good ideas. So I think we're gonna think we're gonna have a repost soon where we can post some reg x's for blogging and cool things. So

go to the podcast index.org down at the bottom. You got to read donate buttons, one for your on chain Bitcoin. Okay. And the other for your Fiat Fiat fun coupons through PayPal, we always appreciate that. And of course, the way to really do it is getting modern podcast app modern podcast apps.com To find out more about podcasting, two dot o podcasting two.org. And the value for value which is a it's a content format. It's a model. It's a lifestyle. Value number four

No. Okay.

Good. You're gonna you're going back to work because you're very close to the deadline. Here are a couple more days and tomorrow is tax day for me tomorrow. I'm doing all the taxes.

Oh, you late, you late filer. Oh,

but but I have it all set up. I just have to, you know, I'm just waiting for the button. Yeah, just I just I wanted to delay the pain until the very, very last minute for

your your skirt and your skirt of the limit. The Monday deadline day is great. Because everybody like you can just like oh, I'll just do it Monday. No,

no, no, no, no, I'm doing it Saturday. I'm doing this. I'm doing that. Thank you very much boardroom thanks, everybody for showing up. Really appreciate your booths. Appreciate your support and your feedback. A lot was discussed today. Have yourselves a great weekend. Dave. Brother, I love you. I'll see you what we'll be talking and we'll talk again on the next board meeting.

Alright man see you bro.

Join us here next Friday for another board meeting the official one of podcasting 2.0 We'll see you then. Bye bye

did you do you hope you have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast and Doug Ford for more information go podcast

Thomas are banned