Episode 172: Tantalizing Liquid - podcast episode cover

Episode 172: Tantalizing Liquid

Mar 22, 20242 hr 49 min
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Episode description

Podcasting 2.0 March 22nd 2024 Episode 172: "Tantalizing Liquid"

Adam & Dave dive into fedifying all apps all the time

ShowNotes

We are LIT

Thunderbird is awesome

TLV records people!

Alby NWC lightning?

Strike Black? Lightning?

Metadata drama

Activity Streams in ActivityPub

Music Landing pages with medium=publisher

Fedifying the Index

-------------------------------------

MKUltra chat

Transcript Search

What is Value4Value? - Read all about it at Value4Value.info

V4V Stats

Last Modified 03/22/2024 14:25:48 by Freedom Controller  

Transcript

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, casting 2.0 for March 22 2024 Episode 172 tantalizing liquid Hey everybody, welcome once again, Friday is right. It is time for podcasting point oh the board meeting all the directors are in the board room it's time to look at the future of podcasting, whatever happened in the past and all the stuff that's happening right now because it

is here that we discuss it. This is the boardroom that stock sets and provides liquidity I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama ladies he's the man to find your spam especially if you pod ping him say hello to my friend on the other end here he is Mr. Die

Dave JonesDave Jones

oh crap Hang on. I'll be right back

Adam CurryAdam Curry

all right, ladies. Standby. He's gonna be here in just a minute. He's missed a day.

Unknown

Jones No.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, there he is. Just a day.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I got I got my paper. I forgot to lift my paper right next to the coffee. Oh, for lunch dropped my keys in my in my case, notes straight

Adam CurryAdam Curry

into your studio into the Batcave ready to go and Oh, no. He

Dave JonesDave Jones

has a lot of sweaty I'm gonna get show D

Adam CurryAdam Curry

did you get your your popcorn did you get your yet? You got your beef milkshake? I

Dave JonesDave Jones

got the milkshake. I got the base. No shape. I didn't get at it. No popcorn today. No, but I did get. Oh, we got a piece of chocolate and some yogurt. Sorry, I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

did something wrong, too. Oh, boy. I'm sorry, people. I forgot. Yeah, we got to start showing her. No, but I do that. We have no time for that. I gotta I gotta hit the piping. Thank you. Okay, there we go. Okay, that should alert everybody that we're started now. It'd be like, Hey, man, you started without telling me.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I like I like how Eric just posts the tag. Here.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Like, what is he? Oh, I see it pending. Yeah, that's my mistake. There you go. Sorry about that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Here. Let me make it easy for you. There's the XML tag fully formed. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Just to let you know, hey, by the way, I just got to start off. I'm really happy today. I've discovered after many years of trying it. Thunderbird is awesome.

Dave JonesDave Jones

This Thunderbird is the thing that frustrates me every week. It's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

so it just became awesome for me.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, wait, okay, wait until it eats up 12 gigs of disk space and shuts your node down? Well,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

well, you got to make sure that you know, you set your IMAP settings properly that you don't cache all of your email. What's great is when you which everybody loves which by the way is a default and is very bad. I'm gonna say that right up front.

Dave JonesDave Jones

True. My mind loves to compact your database. Yeah, it's it's a favorite thing.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I haven't gotten to that yet. The reason why it's here's the reason why I'm using an actually we've been using rain loop on my mind. It's, it's a web client on my on my next cloud, which I like a lot.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Or a mil. It's a

Adam CurryAdam Curry

front end. It's basically an IMAP front end. But what I don't what it doesn't do well at all is GPG or PGP which I know I like open GPG. So encryption, and I don't know if we talked about this, but about two or three weeks ago, proton mail, which a lot of people use, and a lot of people who email me

with no agenda related show stuff. They're like, well, this is safe, which of course it isn't, I mean, you know, it's safe, because it's in Switzerland, but because I have my public key in my signature address protonmail switch something. And by default, if it recognizes an email address that they know has a key, it encrypts the email from the sender on protonmail, which is really a very good thing. Because people didn't even know it was happening. And all of a sudden,

I'm getting all these encrypted emails from protonmail. But of course, my my, my web client didn't have a very efficient way of dealing with that. And you know, and then it would decrypt it, it would break links, you know, that kind of stuff. So it was horrible.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And so you're saying that protonmail now has some way of like hooking into like a, like a directory of GPG keys.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, what they do is if they see if it if the system sees that you're sending to an email address that has a verified public key, and I verified my public key with the key server, then it automatically encrypts any outgoing email from proton mail to that to that recipient and I tested it with Mark avoid zero. And because I'm like, wait a

minute, are they encrypting this internally? And it turns out the minute you type in my email address, it flips on the the encryption and so anything you put in that email will then be encrypted end to end. A really good thing.

Dave JonesDave Jones

No, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I mean, there's reasons why Gmail doesn't do that. Hello, three letter agencies, they don't really want to encourage any of that any of that nonsense going on.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And I have my I have my doubts about signal encrypted chat as well. Oh, oh, yeah. I don't know. That that one feels like there's a lot of reasons to make me think that that is not as secure as we think it is.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, it's also you know, your phone what's running on your phone? What's what is our screengrabs being done? I mean, that's what I always enjoy about a lot of these. A lot of the lightning the wallet apps is though explicitly turn off all

kinds of stuff, no clipboard, no screenshots. And so that someone can't steal your, your password, they even will jumble up PIN code order so that they can't, you know, track pressure sensitivity, though, I mean, it's, and now and it but of course, I'm all jacked, and Judy about, about Thunderbird, and I

really am quite impressed with the changes. They they still has the same old crap under the hood, but there's got some improvements, but then I wake up this morning, and I'm like, oh, no, Windows has rebooted and given me copilot.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You get the widget and the little copilot Oh, yeah. Do you use it? Are you trying? Have you tried it out?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, I tried it out right away, and it's sucked immediately. I'm like, I'm this thing? Because of course, what do you try it with? You try it with with a question that you know the answer to? Yes, if I were to ask you. What book has Jhansi Dvorak been working on for many years, but still not finished?

Dave JonesDave Jones

The vinegar? Exactly. Everybody

Adam CurryAdam Curry

knows that. co pilot says Jhansi Dvorak has been working on a book titled online the book for many years, but it remains unfinished. And so I say Nope, it's a different one. And then it comes back. I apologize for the oversight. Thank you for your patience. The Unfinished book you're referring to is DeVore ag predicts John C. Dvorak co authored this book with me then I like. It was a book about liquid if I recall correctly. Oh, I apologize for the oversight of my previous

messages. Thank you for your patience. The Unfinished book you're referring to is online the book by John C. Dvorak co authored with Wendy Taylor. This intriguing book explores the world of going online covering everything from getting your first modem or DSL connection to selling something using online email marketing tricks. Despite his prolonged development, the book remains incomplete. Much like a tantalizing liquid that refuses to take a fixed form.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Give me a break, says says, Oh, crap, biggest load of made up horseshit.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, it's hallucinated on my butt right away. Right away.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's too wordy. Like, okay, so

Adam CurryAdam Curry

so wrong. I mean, even you know, you know the answer to this.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's a given. That's a given. But like when, when you said what, what book has Jhansi DeVore? I've been working on forever and not finished? My response was the vinegar, bro. Of course. I don't need us. I don't need a soliloquy. Paragraph Yeah, exactly. You're gonna have to stop that. And what everybody wants. What everybody wants from a personal assistant, LLM enabled personal assistant, is they want the Star Trek ships computer experience. Hey, there

you go. That's what you want to say. Hey, thingamabob,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

thinking about Hey, Bob, Bob. Hey, Bob.

Dave JonesDave Jones

What is? Is there anything wrong on the in on the index infrastructure right now? No, Dave, I don't see anything wrong. That's what you want. You don't want infrastructure is something that was coined a phrase that was coined in 1862 by so and so you don't want this a book? Well, here's what you want a quick, snappy, here's.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes, exactly. Now, what they do is they list all of the sources and of course, the sources for this is wiki Wikipedia. Home on Wikipedia, amazon.com and goodreads.com. Now Reddit hasn't started their licensing yet. Now, it was interesting when I said, Tell me about the value for value model of monetization. And it spit back a reworded version of value for value dot info and I know that because it says it right

here. That the three sources it used are value for value dot info value for value dot info value for value dot info and blog dot get albea.com. And it kind of it was interesting because it it took the literal website and just reworded it into seven bullet points, etc. And then I asked who invented it, it came back. I mean, it's in this. So what is really doing

is it's doing searches. And it's it's hoping to hit the right search engine, which of course, because it comes back with this long written, now it doesn't let me parse the different hits, which what we're used to, like, oh, this, this looks like it. Or this looks most feasible to me. It just comes back and then authoritatively state stuff. So for search, this is just such a bad idea. And that, of course, is what the we talked about this with the whole generation has grown up on is I just need to

search. I'm searching, searching for answers searching for my life. What should I do? What should I eat? And you get and you're just getting better worded answers with zero opportunity for these guys to advertise. This is not going to sustain?

Dave JonesDave Jones

No, no, not at all. Now you as Did you see the did you see the Nvidia? They've gone all in on the new they get their new chip? It's like the GE something.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah. And it's, and the NVIDIA CEO is wearing leather jackets. Now, everyone's trying to be Steve Jobs.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, he's a super cool. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Now, you as a as a manager of all things in for info info technology at your company. Are you allowing this nonsense on your on your system? This cope? I mean, it could be it could be scanning my drive for all I know, I don't know what it's doing.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Now, we we have, like most firms, we have internal policies about not using these things. Until Until the future like

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the future is here. Yeah. But tomorrow never comes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You can't you cannot put your stuff into this because you don't know where it's going. You mean, but basically, we just have a blanket restriction on all that stuff right now. Yeah, most companies have this is pretty much across the board. You can't use this unless it's built by inter in unless it's built by us internally. Right, you know, and so then you could use it, because then we know what's happening with the data and all that kind of thing. Which, which is Microsoft's play

here. You know, they're going to tie it. They've tied, they're tying it into office 365. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Day to day. already.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's already popping up on on Word. Use copilot.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, but the thing that like, my issue. Okay. I realized a couple of days ago, what one of the key issues here is for me? And I think not for me personally, but I think this is a real issue is that the problem with these MLMs is there they're not they do not set properly separate the data from the model. So So the algorithm, it's like the data and the data and the thing that generates the data is all one big blob. So like you have to train it, you can't say, Okay, look. Here's

how people talk. And now take that and I want you to iterate on a set of data that's over here that I give you and I want you to tell me now I want you to analyze that data and tell me a bunch of stuff instead what it's it's the model it contains the data and yeah the link and the the algorithms so to speak, both in one big blob so you have to just hear your you can't like separate the two out it's almost like having your your JavaScript sprinkled all throughout your HTML. This is

Adam CurryAdam Curry

why this is why it only works really well in certain instances my buddy Vic is selling this like hotcakes to help desk said phone banks companies that have you know 150 people answering phones customer service is great for that. Oh I'm sure they just got a monkey and that monkey will be gone soon enough once it kind of comes believable that you're hearing a human on the other end

Dave JonesDave Jones

record if you just record all of your all of your telephone support staff if you record all those calls Yeah, exactly six months and then feed it into an LLM. You can make a bot that would just be just spit this crap out like all day long. So

Adam CurryAdam Curry

just so we don't become the new media show. I will say that I think what Todd would Todd has done with blueberry pie. I think that's what he's calling it. I think for process Is management, which Barry at pod home already had set up? I think that's, that's very useful. Agreed. Because,

you know, I, I make mistakes in my process. And if if I could have an algorithm because it's in your script, it's not AI really per se, but I make mistakes, there's a lot of stuff, you know, I shouldn't be cracking the mic and talking to you without the live pod ping going out, you know, there's all kinds of stuff like that. Process Management, I think so called have to say it's so called AI will be very useful. It's not going to get you more listeners with your with your

generated art and your show notes and all that stuff. I don't know. I don't see that as, as anything important at all, but it makes the

Dave JonesDave Jones

bus. It's like the bus Bronco stuff. I mean, like this, it just makes things makes things easier. It makes me you know, it gives you a starting point. Yeah. Yeah. To go with and so that's good. Those are all good things.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And I like having 15 to 20 Humans competing to create art for the for our episode. If you go look at nogen art generator.com You'll see it for every episode, there's 20 different pieces. People are competing. That's humans. That's that's souls, souls with humor and insight and ideas. Yeah, a lot of them are using generated stuff, which usually gets skipped because just has that look. It has, it has got a slick

look. But it's not funny. There's no insight, there's, you know, having a picture on the wall on the background is skewed just a little bit could be the funniest thing. But there's just no so anyway, soulless crap.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So, so and and soulless, and wrong. Yes. Like, just like, the DOJ isn't wrong. I don't know if you heard about the SLS listen to the coda radio, and they started talking about the Apple antitrust case.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

John told me a little bit about it yesterday on the show, it sounded like his breakdown was their phones suck, and they're responsible for all the problems. And that's why we're suing them. Does that kind of summarize

Dave JonesDave Jones

this? I would sum it up like this. We don't like you. And so we're going to make ourselves feel better by suing you.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And why don't they like apple? What would an apple do wrong?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't know. They were there. And I say I say I don't know. And I'm being genuine. Because all the things that they all the examples that you're getting? Don't they're either untrue. Or they don't make any sense. Like they don't or they don't follow the narrative that they've laid out. So coder radio has the latest episode is is is worth a listen. They had a great overview of this. And excuse me, his pollen, this pollen? Yeah, yeah. But they had a great overview of

this. And the guy that that was ended up being sort of the spokesperson for this on the news shows was this guy, Tim Wu. I know, you know,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that. What do I know, Tim Wu from? Yeah, I know him. He's at Columbia

Dave JonesDave Jones

University. But he used to be in the Biden administration work. He He's what they're everybody's referring to him as the architect of their antitrust policy. He's like the guy. He's like the brain behind the operation of this.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, it's rings a bell? Yes. So he I probably heard about him on pivot where Kara Swisher thinks he's great. Probably.

Dave JonesDave Jones

This this, this would follow. That I thought Chris and Mike occurred radio had a really good take on this from they called this. Chris called this an emotional document.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, well, that says it right there, doesn't it? Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

The DOJ into you know, document that lists all the reasons why they're why they're bringing an antitrust lawsuit against Apple. They call it an emotional document this this is I believe this fully based on the way that this guy's talking. This is to give the end to give the end away. First. I think this is basically a I think I think this this administration specifically, but broader just a general thing that is happening in court and culture in academia and politics

is to try to get a try to do a gotcha on people. To you get what you want. If you're an up and comers you want to you want to, you want to scalp to hang on your wall. Yeah, it doesn't matter if it doesn't matter if, if it ever even worked, like if it actually functions or works in the way that you think it will or if any, anything is produced by it, you just need that you just want to get a scalp. And this what better way

to do it, then through some sort of squishy? We don't you know, you're, you're not being fair type of type of language, to take advantage of the squishy nature of current society and where we're at the first I got, I guess we'll click Ah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

there it is. And we knew you were leading up to something. Yeah, I got some clips. So this,

Dave JonesDave Jones

he lays it out. And you can hear what he says, like the trajectory of this. From the very beginning, when he says the reason they're doing it, the reason that they're sued is an interview on CNBC with Tim Wu, the reason why they're suing Apple is not because they have hard evidence of all these wrongs, is because it's part of an American tradition,

Unknown

we idea I think, is to hold America's Best Companies feet to the fire, that if they're forced to compete, they get better, that dominant companies become stagnant. It's an American tradition. We did it with IBM, we did it with AT and T, we did it with Microsoft. And I'm saying that, you know, suing Microsoft ended up being the best thing for the tech industry. The theory is that no one disputes that Apple is a great phone, a great, great company. But you know, the law

is not a popularity contest. And the idea is that they are got where they are, they've now built a moat, to prevent anyone else from getting in there preventing people from switching new applications. So the idea is in favor of more innovation. And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I will say that when it comes to breaking companies up, it's always to the benefit of the incumbent company, and to the benefit of the shareholders, because that's what they're going after they want to break it up. They want to break something up. I mean, look, did it hurt Microsoft in the long run when they going after them for the browser? No,

Dave JonesDave Jones

no, no. So his, you know, the examples he gives are? He's like he said, in a citizen American tradition, basically Apple Europe. It's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

your turn. Yeah, cuz we got to do some let's, we got to do our job over here. He

Dave JonesDave Jones

and He and the examples he gave were IBM, AT and T, Microsoft, IBM, IBM. We and the reason I'm talking about this is we you know, we talked about this a week or two ago, and they're talking about how house, how silly all of this antitrust nonsense is at least the American version of it. And IBM, IBM, they started the ante the DOJ started the antitrust case against IBM in 1969. Yeah. And it was eventually thrown out in 1982. Nothing happened. Right? That. So that's one

example of we we did that. He said, we did this to IBM, you have at&t, and they were broken apart in 1982. If you compare long distance rates after the breakup, they fit the rates fell less in the US than they did in every other part of the world where they didn't break up their telephone monopolies.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And we still have those kinds of incompatibilities. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

the Microsoft case was eventually settled out of court, because the judge said, this is this is you, you failed, you failed, you failed to prove your case. They settled out of court for basically some API concessions, and a committee of five people that would review the source code for five years. Like these cases that he gives are worse. They're all failures, sometimes explicit failures, others, like an 18. T is this is failures to produce the results. They said they would they would

do. But like the this is, they say, we're going to do this because obviously we did it to these other companies, but you failed. The other companies. But and then and that's, that's just like sort of the framework. The the history of these things that

he then goes on to tell they're all They're all just wrong. Like the document that they talked about the the DOJ document that lays all this out, says that that I did the Microsoft thing was Ness, the Microsoft case was necessary to force Microsoft to open up Windows to iTunes. Mm

Adam CurryAdam Curry

hmm. That's not that's not that's not how that works. No,

Dave JonesDave Jones

Apple. Apple didn't want to put it on On Windows, Microsoft was begging them to put it on there because that gives them access to an entire humongous market. And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Microsoft even invested $500 million into creating office for the Mac via Steve Jobs. I remember Steve Jobs was announcing it. And Bill Gates came on behind him on a giant screen looking like his, his overlord from 1984.

Unknown

Steve That's right.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And that's that's because that's the famous quote, where jobs that we have to get rid of this idea that in order for us to win, Microsoft has to lose. Yeah. And so he goes on to, you know, he tells this bogus in clip two, he tells this bogus Microsoft history, explain

Unknown

how you think going after Microsoft was the best thing that could have happened for the tech industry? Because Bill Gates has said, it's the reason that they fell behind why the company lost out on on on going and having its own phone. Yeah, I mean, you brought up Europe and Japan, other countries just sort of leave their monopolist there. And after a while, a very vibrant competitive company becomes stagnant. They become less interested in innovation more interested in trying to

keep out the competitors. But back in the 90s, Microsoft had basically sewed up the operating system market, they were trying to take on the internet and control it. And they probably would have prevented the rise of companies like Google, like Amazon, like Facebook, they had their own search engine. Why would they let Google win on their explore? It

Adam CurryAdam Curry

was a better search engine.

Dave JonesDave Jones

He said they had their own search engine. Why would they let Google when on their Explorer

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is a guy who has no idea how the internet works? Did Microsoft

Dave JonesDave Jones

have a search engine in 1995 or four? No,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

no, they bought something though, didn't they? Didn't they buy Infoseek or they bought something?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Well, that eventually became Bing. But I don't That was way after. That was way after the antitrust lawsuit stuff. Yeah. He's got his timeline completely wrong. He said they probably if we didn't let him go, and we hadn't done this, which again, the case was settled. For now for almost no

Adam CurryAdam Curry

pen and say why are you so mad about all this?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Because it's so stupid. Like, like, it? It? I guess I guess I'm worked up about it because it makes me your spine out, man. It may. It makes me irritated when I'm just lied to go. Okay. Old face like, yeah, these are these are not like what does that thing? What did they is there's some kind of like, thing where it's where like you you hear somebody talk about something you know about and they it's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the man Gelman amnesia effect. Okay, yeah. Which is and I'll give the definition. When you read something in the newspaper, you're an expert on and you see that it's wrong, then you usually don't, but you should realize that the rest of the articles are also probably wrong.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, that's, that's what has me spun up about this. Because when I hear it, there's lots of things that Apple does that are that are just, yeah, like,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

like dropping podcasts from their index. Yeah. But

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's not what we're told that that's not the issue at hand. The issue here is a bunch of stuff that's made up. Yeah. And they're just flat out lying to lie. Here's another exact clip three. Another example about we talked about the about air airplane manufacturing in the in the automobile industry.

Unknown

I think in even inside this country, we have former tech industries that get very stagnant. Let's take aerospace. We allowed the airline industry to merge into basically a monopoly centered on Boeing, you know, competing with Airbus. How's that going? We you know, when you think about the current history, you know, we've said okay, this big three can have it. I think we've done a lot better when we 40 have been completely disrupted by Tesla. Yeah, companies that come in and

buy and buy inputs. No, I hear that. But what I'm saying is if we had if we had taken antitrust action in the 60s, we would have had a more competitive car industry. Bull crap.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Okay, so I see what he's doing. This is bullcrap. In fact, it's better if you have the, what we're doing right here. Case in point. There was no innovation because this is actually a very good example. There was no innovation in podcasting. Partially because Apple was the default on ramp they had become that they were the, you know, the 400 pound gorilla in the room. But partially because no one put put their big boy pants on and said, You know what, we're just going

to compete with Apple. Because Oh, they're too big turns out, doesn't make any difference. We're thriving without them. We're thriving just fine. In fact, there's never been this many independent podcast apps as far as I know. Now, are our Do we have the same market share? No. But also does it matter? No.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, now you're splitting up. So yeah, man I love it. I love the hand waving of, you know, blah, blah, blah, some about Boeing. Okay,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

what's wrong with Boeing? Boeing has a lot of problems right now. And that's, that's not because of lack of innovation. That's because what's her face? Nikki Haley moves him to South Carolina and let him do whatever they wanted to do. And the whole corporate culture changed overnight. That's what happened there. may even

Dave JonesDave Jones

I love the love the how how he undercuts his own argument, she says seems like totally disrupting. Yeah. And imports. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

All right, buddy. Okay, so that was a fail on his part a big fail. Yeah, yeah. And

Dave JonesDave Jones

but the real clincher, though, is this is clicked for him. This isn't she asked him. She asks him of what I think is a really good sort of question. If you're thinking about, like, what's the endgame here. And I think she rightly spots that there probably, is, there's nothing Apple can do.

And this is what I started, you know, this office saying that these are a bunch of people who they just want to scalp and they're going to prey on other people's emotions, to get some sort to get something in the books where they can have their name attached to it in the future. So and so, you know, was the person who brought an antitrust action against Apple? That's that's all is it's about. It's about extraction, not remediation. When you

Unknown

describe it like that, it makes me think that there is not much that Apple can do to settle to make these claims go away. They agreed and made some concessions to the European Union, would it be as easy as saying, Okay, we'll make those changes here too, or is the entire goal of the Department of Justice to bring them to their knees and not allow them to be a strong competitor in their own right now, the goal of the Department of Justice is to protect

competition. And their theory is that Apple has monopolized this market, and has prevented competitors from from challenging Apple through means that are illegal. So if Apple agrees to do all that, like describe what what would actually take I mean, are you talking about saying the App Store is no longer going to be protected? be its own ecosphere. But I think that just for it's going to want to know the

difference between what is actually privacy protection? And what is something they say that can protect their monopoly? Look, I don't this Justice Department is not into easy settlements. So they can't wave a magic wand and say they want to understand that they need to be you know, that blocking on contempt, petition illegally won't be tolerated anymore.

I think that's the key. And what you're saying is that this Justice Department doesn't want to settle easily that there is much bigger, there are much bigger issues like for Apple, it's not going to be able to settle and go away unless it basically hands over the keys to the kingdom. I mean, Jonathan Cantor was saying the other day, the biggest change between us and the old days is we don't settle for like five cents on the dollar and call it victory. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say this. There's something else going on here. You for this guy. Yeah, probably a scalp. But this is much bigger. This is Bure you're allowing people to have protected encrypted conversations, you're not opening that up. And I'm pretty sure that they they make it very difficult before they actually do something. If you store something on iCloud, you could

be screwed. But if you're just doing stuff, and this may be related to the new, the ICS standard, you know, with with iMessage. And more importantly, Tim Cook probably hasn't donated enough money to Biden's reelection campaign. That's that's ultimately, that's what these guys are all about. That's this is a worker bee. He's been sent out to pester Apple, because Apple is not dancing to somebody's pipe somewhere. And it's usually in an election year that this kind of stuff happens.

That's the same thing. Right now we have in the Supreme Court. We have Missouri V. Biden. And the question is, did the administration violate the First Amendment which for those of you not living here? The Bill of Rights is not rights that you get from the government for for your free speech? It is the opposite? It is a you have free speech, and the government cannot interfere in it. It's a it's a restriction against the

government. And what the both the under the Trump but more the Biden administration, they would go to the show social networks and say you have to take down this post. And this is where it this is the crux of the issue. Was it coercion and just coercion violate the First Amendment when they say if you don't, well, you know, there's that section 230 We could take that away from you. So it's all about power of the federal government which of course, is exactly what we don't want in

America. So this guy should be ashamed of himself. And there's a special that he has a, a front row seat in hell, that's where

Dave JonesDave Jones

every every every administration has. It has a flavor to it has a character with the Trump administration, that flavor was complete chaos and back backbiting and people, you know, it

Adam CurryAdam Curry

was the same people. It's the same people, it was the same thing. Only Trump was different. Everyone else was the same. No,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I mean, you had people like, you know, people backstabbing him and leaking things. He didn't know what he was doing. He can't you know, he couldn't hire anybody worth a crap to save his life. There was there was all the it was this, there was a there was a culture of disarray in their administration. This the culture in this administration is of coercion. It's academia, the people that, that the people that are in positions of power, within this administration, are

all very come from the academic world. Especially in the FTC. You know, the DOJ, like people like this guy from Columbia University, spent some time in the administration, he's not in there anymore. But these are the things in this administration and getting crafted by people who are Egghead policy wonk. And those, those people can be very dangerous because they don't live in the real world. They live in the academic bubble. And when they and when you let them out and start, they start

creating policy. That's where you get some pretty nasty results. That's that's a technocracy and this like, you're me. You're right. I think you're right. This is like the CNBC had an had a article from January of last year, talking about how Apple still trails everybody else in lobbying money. No, no. Yeah. We know when we already went over a while back a few months ago, how Microsoft started off the

beginning when they first got sued by the DOJ. They had like one lobbyist in a, you know, in an office above, like a Denny's. And then by the end, you know, by the end of the end of the thing that we're like one of the biggest lobbyists in Washington,

you're right, this is a pay up thing, for sure. But I also think that there's a, there's an academic Egghead thing that goes on in this particular administration, where people like this, who don't, who really are out don't know, they have no practical experience in the in the, in the real economy. They're making decisions that are potentially very dangerous.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

All right, now I'm going to switch you back to podcasting. Dave, is it out of your system? Yeah. I want to congratulate Andrew Gromit. He nailed it. He got the T O V records working.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That was that was a switch holy cow. This. Congrats, Andrew. Very

Adam CurryAdam Curry

happy, because he's he's building this framework for web apps kind of ties into this because you never know. You know, app stores are not something that we can depend on. Right long term, and he's building this this what does he call it? It's the whatever app I think and it's he's he's really building this whole framework, that everything. I mean, he has some cores issues, of course, but that everything will just work. And then you can spin up a web app and have a framework to

create whatever you want. It's I think it's really important work. And I'm I'm really pleased he's doing it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, that's he he's, this is part of his PWA library. Yes.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, exactly. And he

Dave JonesDave Jones

submitted some, some correction language to heli pad. No to the blip.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Blip itself, okay. Yeah. Cuz he was having troubles trying to figure out the remote item. But now he's got remote items working. He's got reply working. I mean, the app I mean, if you if you look at the the app, it's like, whoa, you know, it's got a lot of buttons and boxes and stuff. Because just the framework by man, you can spin up a progressive web app, something Hello, roofie. We know you're back. roofie. I'm just saying yes. All that you might want to do. You might want to

take a look at this thing. Andrew is building man. And he's got some interesting going on there. I like it a lot. I like it a lot. And

Dave JonesDave Jones

I've got I've got problems to fix. I've got bugs to fix on the index. This this episode. Response this episode's by feed ID response on the

Adam CurryAdam Curry

API. Yeah, it's not, it's not spitting back all the all the episodes, it's just spitting back and fix them. I like 64 Instead of all of them. No,

Dave JonesDave Jones

it's different. Something different result set every. So you give it. here's the, here's what it looks like in practice, you asked for a maximum. So pretty much every API call in the index has a parameter called Max. So it's just basically just a limit, you know, I don't want any more than this number of result. If you give it a max of, let's say, 50, it may give you 22. Oh, if you give it a max of 100, you're running this on a 70. Or you're running this

Adam CurryAdam Curry

on an LLM. This, is that why they're happening?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Here like that's the incorrect number of results. And you tell it that and it says, Oh, yes, I apologize. 94. Exactly. But yeah, but I asked for 100. Oh, my apologies. Here's 86. Exactly. The so you get these weird results in I finally figured it out. It's, it's because Okay, let's go. Let's talk about databases for a second.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah. Whoo. Does that does that qualify as hot math talk or anything like that? No, I guess not. That's a

Dave JonesDave Jones

stretch. Okay. Because this year, we got databases

Adam CurryAdam Curry

religion, brother has religion.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We got no jingles.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Hello, damn, Jennifer, we need hot database talk.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, yeah, this is just gonna suck for the next two minutes. So when you do a SQL query, you can't like, what we're asking for is episodes in a podcast, that's that query is super simple, super fast. Select these fields, where the, where they feed ID is x in the items table. Done simple. There's, but then we had everything is separated into different tables. So the chapters are in their own table. The sound bites are in their own table. The transcripts are in their own table, bla,

bla, bla, bla bla. So all the things that go along the value, time splits are in a different table. Each little bit of data in the 2.0 namespace is housed in a different table. And those all tie back to the items table with a item ID record, or field. So now you have to say, give me all select all the all the episodes, where the feed ID is, is this. And then you have to

start doing joint what they call joins. So then you say join, join transcripts on Item ID equals this join chapters on Item ID equals this and you I mean, there's like, I don't know, eight or nine of these joins. So you're basically pulling you're now saying pulley and also, in addition to all the all the fields, in the items table a pull in all these fields in these other tables. Right? What that is also fine, and

usually doesn't slow things down too bad. But the issue here is that then you get into a minute you get into a many to one problem. So you have exactly. Let's say one of the episodes is episode 171 of podcasting 2.0. Episode 171 may have multiple value time splits, yes. So when I say Bring, bring back, this result is when I say also join in the results from the value time splits table. Now what I'm going to get in my result set is I'm going to get, let's say if there was five value TimeSlips

I'm gonna get five duplicate records. Back where the only difference is just the value time split data. Because what you're getting what you're asking for is a list of all the episodes. Yeah, but you're then joining another table, which may have multiple values for the same episode. I'll stop doing that. So. So what's the result set going to look like? There's a guy list. Yeah. So so then what you basically have to do a

post processing. So you get your whole flat list back and you post process and you run through and say, Okay, you, you just attach your system, essentially you build the structure. And you build the structure that you're going to use that you're going to use, and then hand it off to be encoded into JSON To this, this slows things down this this process

Adam CurryAdam Curry

enormously. I'll bet

Dave JonesDave Jones

a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So when you so then so what the bottom line is, it's a con, it's sort of a become a big complicated query, and I'm going to have to figure out how to refactor it in order to get the speed that we need. And, and the accuracy. Wow. Because this this is, this is an example of one of those things that grew up over time.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, yeah. What I mean is like, this is why it's religion. You you've you've put yourself in a box, not because you're, you're dumb, but because that's what it was in the beginning. Now we have all these others or other requirements people want, and decisions you made two years ago are now making more complicated. Is that a fair assessment?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. So now now you just have to figure out how to get your stuff out the box.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Um, I have a couple of things on my agenda here because this stuff that we didn't get to last week. And this is something I was so disappointed because I don't know if you've if you've caught up with your partners weekly reviews, the one from last week. But Sam interviewed one of the co authors of the activity pub.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I haven't listened to speculates, I suppose

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is a spec. Activity is spanned expand and activity streams. And I'm so sick and tired of hanging Sam Sethi now make no Oh, no herb in my life live boo, boo, boo. Okay, so I want to delve into activity streams for a second. Because I understand what he's saying. He's, let me start. Let me skip back. He has a huge problem with using the lightning split, in

order to activate some other thing throughout. And he somehow he believes that, that I think, or if there's a general consensus, that booster grams or cross app comments, they're not, it's never been the intention. I liked the idea of being able to put those different places I like, I really liked the reflex service from Spurlock, that automatically puts it into the chapters, everyone seems to have gotten used to that. There's no more pushback, everyone's fix their app. So because it's a TOC

equals false. So it doesn't ruin people's experience of using chapters to jump to different spots. So that's worked out. I understand, though, that he is looking at activity streams, which is a double three standard, which means it'll suck to change anything. As a way to provide feedback from an individual user, back to publisher, whomever. And and it's basically just a JSON, I've looked at it and um, I can I can read some stuff is basically just a JSON format, and then has

all these different verbs. So if you hit play, or if you put a comment, I mean, it's what Facebook, I guess use early on and MIB everybody probably use it for social networking. The

Dave JonesDave Jones

the verb might be follow exactly the lead or whatever. Yeah, like

Adam CurryAdam Curry

all this different stuff. Yeah, yeah. And so. But what he didn't ask or what he asked, and the guy didn't answer, and Sam didn't either didn't catch it, or whatever it didn't, it was so disappointing, because this is the one thing I wanted to know, where do you store that data? And what Sam is saying, on the mastodon on the podcast, index dot social is, well, the index should just store that. I'm like, No, I want nothing to do with user data like that. I mean, you might

have a different opinion. But to me, it's like, no, that's the worst thing you can you can well, it's just a feed of that. Yeah, sure. We're just storing data. But now you're in privacy, right to forget the European Union. And you're talking about people's individual, what if, you know, some rogue actor comes in and steals that data, it's still it's very valuable, because that's how Facebook makes billions of dollars. That's how Twitter makes billions? Well, whatever they're

making, is by selling that data. That is exactly the valuable data that we want to stay away from. However, this is what I wanted to know. Because I wish there was the perfect guy to ask and it didn't happen. Is there a way to store activity streams data in activity pub in your actor or whatever it's called? Is that not the most logical thing here? Or am I mistaken? Do you know who

Dave JonesDave Jones

what is the actor in this scenario? You would have to ask him Is it the user

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I would say the user You have to have an account.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Right? Yes. I mean, well, you're not. You're going to be having any. Yeah. I mean, the that's the way, let me ask the way most of activity pub, which uses activity streams as its, you know, action language. That's the way that most that's the way that works typically, as you have,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

why do I keep hearing that we have to store it in the index? It makes no sense. Well,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I mean, if I guess maybe they're talking about restoring the, the thing that we would receive, if we're liking a podcast or following a podcast, will mean we store, we don't store anything on the bridge. I mean, the bridge will be a good example of this. I mean, we don't store anything there other than follows. Because you have to, because we have to know where to send the updates to data when somebody is somebody likes a cat, which would be another verb, if somebody likes

the podcast. We're not storing that. Right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

But I think, okay, maybe maybe I'm misunderstanding here. Because he's talking about aggregating that data for use amongst other apps. So if you put it, let's just keep it simple. That cross app comments that he sees that that should be activity streams, which to me is like we already have this working with activity pub, the me we have that basic stuff working. So if you put a comment in on a podcast episode, it

shows up underneath that, that base base URL. Now, if you want to like it, if you want to, you know, provide some other active some other data shouldn't also just show up there then to be can that then be accessed by other apps? Or is that the problem? I don't know if I'm making myself clear.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't I don't think that you. I don't think that you're well, okay. Let me let me try to think of this in terms of the activity pub world. The pub, the other entities only know about what you've done with them. I mean, there's no What's your do, your actor only stores its information on its system, right. So my imaginary my Mastodon account knows all of the things I've done and knows what I've liked, what I've applied to follow knows what

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you did last summer.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It knows, it knows all these things. Because it's me essentially. But, but a podcast I follow only knows things that I've, that I've posted to it, like a like, or a follow or something like that, or, you know, or the other option. The other the other potential there is if there's if

there's a shared inbox idea. And, and I'm sending my likes or my other actions, to this other thing that knows about lots of lots of podcasts or actors could possibly know all those things and store those, like Daniel, in the chat said something about

pod engagement, his his product, might be able to speak this. And then, you know, if I, if I like seven podcasts, then perhaps pug and I make that, quote unquote, public into us activity pub speak, then, because there's because with every activity, with every action, there's also a sort of a way to denote what this is for, is it for just this actor? This receiving actor is it for everyone. Is it like a public post? Or a public like?

Or is it private? That's how you get things like direct messaging, and that kind of stuff over activity pub, is by limit limiting that visibility section. So, I mean, I could see how I could see how if in the right context, there might be a platform or a service that could sort of collect things like that into, like a feed. If that's the terminology we want to use, but I mean, like, I don't think that it would have to be something purpose built for it.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Right? Well, Sam Southie just boosted 10,000 SATs. He says, Adam, I don't have answers. I'm asking the questions. Okay. Activity Stream is the data activity above is the protocol for the apps true fans will be publishing user activity stream verbs to their activity pub client, with permission. Okay,

Dave JonesDave Jones

so But what this what we're okay So that makes sense. Right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

But we were switching now from doing stuff with podcasters. With the with the publishing podcasters to the users. I have I have some problems with that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't know what you mean, like, what would the problem? No, no who say that against they say what you said again? Okay. Because I didn't and I'm not sure I fully followed what you meant.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

But let me read Sam's thing again. Okay. True fans will be publishing user activity stream verbs to their activity pub client with permission.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So, okay,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

so Okay, so that could mean how long you've listened, what podcast you're listening to right now? Did you press play? Did you skip an ad? All of this stuff. I just don't know. If we can ever that's not been the culture of podcast apps. In fact, quite the inverse has been true.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Sam, Sam is going to have already reached out and he's going to be on the show in April. Okay. Because then we cannot do this. Yeah, we just have to figure out a date. But yeah, he's gonna be on the show soon. But the the way that the way that I understand this is this is that true fans has made the decision to as well to

Adam CurryAdam Curry

publish their users data with the user's permission. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And so, you know, he's these these verbs that, that he's talking about? I mean, we know a couple of them off the bat. I mean, it's gonna be follow and like, and, I mean, there's, there's some others, but I mean, there's like a couple of like, default ones that we all we all understand. But then that there is a facility to create custom verbs,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

right? It's open. It's like a namespace you can add to Yeah, yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

you can extend it. And so those custom verbs may be a can be other things like a review, you know, right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Right. Right. Right, right. Or something

Dave JonesDave Jones

else. So like, if I can see how, if they want to be a, a sort of activity, pub first activity stream first platform, that they could, I could somehow hook that back into my standard activity, pub identity. And then and then like, the things I do on true fans, them, they also are reflected like, like I did them in my activity pub account. Like there, you know, it's not like a net is trying to not have two different presences.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

We're trying to tie this right. So there's our kind of requires every user to have an activity pub presence.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think, if I understand what his platform does, you, you are an activity pub actor already. But then, but it's just on his system, unless you also tie it out to this other to another identity.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And, and I'm for that i The more I look at activity pub, the more I like it, really like it. I mean, you could hook up your washing machine to activity pub.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, you know. Yeah. And then it could use 12 gigs of data a day.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, there's that. But as a as an as a bridge between all kinds of different applications. I think it's wonderful. I'm just trying to understand, is it something how do we use it within the context of podcasting 2.0 Is it I mean, we haven't been able to get really a single app developer to really, really integrate cross app comments. You in this podcast publishes our base URL everything every single time. The closest I've seen it is the curio Kassar basically pops open

a web page. And I think well, the the 2.0 website does a nice job. But no one has really gone the full circle where you can just click Reply. Now then you go through all these hoops and you back out to a mastodon website. And it's not a it's not a seamless process. I think it's because education, honestly, I think it just, you know, developers are busy. You got other stuff to deal with. And then, you know, really diving into this as a deep one.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You know, like, Daniel was like, No, and and he was anti activity for a long time. But now he's a believer, I think. I think it just takes it takes doing it. It takes writing some software, some activity pub based software first to see that it's really not as intimidating and bad as is, as it appears on the outside activity. Pub. Has a it's got an image problem for developers. Yeah, because it looks like a big bunch of goo and it looks very weird and hard to understand. And math.

Mastodon made it worse, because there's a lot of undocumented stuff in the mastodon world. And if you're gonna build activity pub, you have to play nice with Mastodon because it's 100 pound gorilla. So there's a lot of stuff like that that makes it, you know, and I'm speaking from experience now, because I just wrote this right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And it was not easy. It was hard. There was some weird stuff, a lot of

Dave JonesDave Jones

the lots of debugging, lots of staring at the screen debugging, because there's no documentation to tell you what

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is right. Maybe if I take it up one level, there is my belief after many years of talking about this with you, and with the group, that activity pub can connect the 2.0 apps, ie podcasting, in a way, that will be very exciting. If we can figure it out, you know, cross app comments, forget the way, just the idea of something that you comment here, it shows up in

another app over there. And we went through early in the early days, you know, people were just like, and I remember Martin from pod for me, like now I'll just publish mine with POD friends. And we'll go back and forth. And we'll, we'll just share that data. So that obviously is not the right way. Clearly, the fediverse activity Pub is clearly the way to connect all

of these different data points. And I think that we would be as a group of applications and services, we would be formed formidable, formidable, even if we found out a way to connect our apps, maybe it's not comments, maybe it's something very simple in the beginning. With the caveat that I didn't do not think podcasts index should be some centralized repository of this information. No, no, no. So but and in my mind, isn't

that exactly the point? If does that mean maybe that every app has to spin up an activity pub instance, for its users, which, of course brings in a whole other host of things, because I can already see Franco in there and Italy going Mamamia, you know, he talks like that, actually, me to

Dave JonesDave Jones

do is literally every time we talk, because

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm sold on the idea. I love the interview with that guy, and it was cool as he was like, I can't believe that you guys are putting podcasts into activitypub What a great idea. So you know, for one of the co authors of this to see the power that we're bringing to the NCAA, right, it has a is a huge marketing problem with activity pub, because everyone immediately thinks, depending on where you're standing in life, oh, lib tardes or Nazis. I mean, that's, that's all we can think

of when it comes to activity pub and blocking. Blocking.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, but that denialist Yeah, so there's gotta

Adam CurryAdam Curry

be a way that we can use that to our advantage, not something you and I can solve here, but it just feels like there's something so big there that would leave every other big app, which let's face it, there's only a couple really just standing there with the proverbial thing in their hands, because they're not a part of the group. And this would just it would be something very cool. But it's but we have to think beyond the the single features of comments or you know, it has

to be how do we connect these apps together? You know, how how can I have my How can I tell my washing machine that I'm following this podcast? You know that that kind of stuff? That's how big it is? I believe in the realm of what we can do. Does that make sense? That guy has a great

Dave JonesDave Jones

mustache by the way he does

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it has its own activity pub actor accounts

Dave JonesDave Jones

should if it doesn't, it should. Is it the left is an outbox the right isn't it? My

Adam CurryAdam Curry

My hair has its own Mastodon account it's got an acting as an activity pub actor Adam Curry's hair. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, not. What did you mean by us? Each podcast app or platform would have to spin up its own activity pub instance.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, my simple thinking. The the beauty of I'll just use the mastodon example of activity pub. So no agenda social blew up. It became no authority, social and I didn't want an account there. I could have had an account there, obviously, but I already had my SIOP, shop.com and I've integrated perfectly with the conversations that I want to be a part of, because of course, there's no blocking between us. And, and so I'm still a part of the group even though I have my

own my own instance. If that's just me on that instance, but I could add a couple of other people, to require your users to all find an activity pub account, whether it's, you know, what, regardless of the front end, that I think is a heavy lift, as an app to say, Hey, you're signed in. And under the hood, you also now are an actor in the fediverse. The I think

that's what I'm saying. And therefore, now we can integrate all these things, all of any verbs, you choose to publish whatever it is, and you can have all kinds of other things flow into it, and especially like, what you said, reviews, ratings, etc, all that stuff can flow into it. But I think it requires the app developers to take a huge plunge and a huge ban. And I think there's risk there too. I mean, if you have 50,000 users of your app, you have 50,000 bits of information, there's all

kinds of stuff we got to think about. That may or may or may not, maybe we do it in the same way as Hey, bring your own your own account, you know, use your own activity, pub credentials, or use use the one that I have built in.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, that, yeah, we took for the activity pub podcast index bridge, I took that, you know, second approach, which is it, and I think it's the right way to go if you can swing it, which is you have every per every user is also just, you can just assume you can just treat them like an actor in your platform. And then they get they get a

Adam CurryAdam Curry

they get an inbox and outbox. I want to show an episode would be an actor with an inbox and outbox and to that actor, that episode actor you can send a review verb, a listen to verb, a comment, verb etc. Is that how that works? Okay.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, so you could do it that way? Yeah, we don't go. We don't go down to the episode Level A probably should have I didn't think about it. We just go to the podcast show level and treat that as the actor. It would be it would have been cool to go to the episode level. But that's, that's yeah, that's for sure. Another way to do it like that. And that. And that's the better. I don't like using judgmental words like that. But that to me, that's a good way to do for developers to

think about this stuff. Because you look at your own platform, you look at your own app, and you say, Okay, what, what am I doing here? Where's the where are my actors at? Where am actors at? Because they were, you know, which one of you like, what, what is what is an actor in my system? Is that the user? Is? Is it the show? Is it the episode? I mean, is it the comment, I mean, like, because it's gonna be probably this, we

answered different ways for every developer. And then you can make those decisions and the adding sort of activity, pub Ising, a thing is really not that hard. You're just publishing a couple of endpoints, you're, you're publishing three endpoints. And that's it. I mean, you're kind of you're kind of done. And those endpoints don't actually have to do anything. They don't have to, don't have to exist. They don't have to exist as static entities. Like they can

just be dynamic, and only respond as, as necessary. So like, that's the way the activity, that's where the podcast index bridge is. There's no, there's no static stuff living anywhere. It just rode the actor is just one endpoint with a with a parameter, which is just index ID, right. And so we just have one, one piece of code. I mean, the bridge is very simple. There's not a lot of code there. I don't know, a

couple 1000 lines of code. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, and a lot of that is just, you know, infrastructure code that's built in, you know, for the web app itself. So there's really not a lot there. I think this is a thing that is important going forward. I like Well,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I've been just just imagine because, okay, so I'm just thinking outside the box, you know, like and subscribe, you know, leave it, leave a review, leave, you know, hit five, give me five stars, all this stuff that people always saying the discovery mechanism would be would be hyper, if we were able to pull this off. Because if I leave a review, is plus and minus of course, if I leave a review on on an episode and that flows over and there's, you know, 50 reviews on one

episode and you see that in your podcast app. Oh, wait a minute. I'm sorting by Reviews. Oh, look at this. I mean, I have no idea how that works in practice, if that's easy, what I'm saying, but it just, I can just feel it in my bones, maybe,

Dave JonesDave Jones

well wait wave lake or what's Steven bass, hosting thing, music hosting, music side project, music side project, you know, those kinds of platforms that the, the artist could be an actor. And so that you're being hosted on that on that platform. And that artist is sort of that's the official account or the official actor for that artist. That's where they're

hosting their music. And then, you know, that's so like, are these other other platforms see that in internet and can interact with that, and it makes sense.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And this kind of makes me realize that me oh, this noster RSS thing. It's not about Nasir nostra is competing with activity pub. That's the competition. That's the real competition. And I think we're honestly, I have no personal vendetta against nostre I think I think we're, we're hung up and spinning a lot of cycles on trying to do nostre stuff. When activity Pub is sitting there. It's been there for what 13

years. It's sitting there going use me cuse me. I'm ready. You know, it's just it just seems like such an obvious thing to do. And boy, look at the look at the people who are here who could do it. 10 Yo one owns it. I love this. I love this so much, you know, no one owns it and you still have all your models. In fact, you have quite sophisticated moderation tools that can be that can be implemented.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Which is always VC money and activity boom.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So yes, exactly. And then I think then we there's 25 more cool things we can do with our apps and the beauty is everybody gets to use them

Dave JonesDave Jones

this as a little bit of a tangent in that direction has kind of gotten me thinking about this and about how sort of interactivity between between different players in the podcasting world that we've been having a there's a real problem with spam feeds right now. Yes, yes, I know. And to the tune of hundreds a day that are being that I'm having to remove manually from the database and I'm working on my side to try to click to filter those out so that they don't come in

Adam CurryAdam Curry

these are coming in through pod ping mainly

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, yeah. Yeah, through pod pain but other other ways as well. So they're originating on the hosting companies and then they're getting pod pain down and we're picking them up I've had to do I've had to put in a lot of defense code to try to keep those things out special

Adam CurryAdam Curry

military operation

Dave JonesDave Jones

the SS the smoke the podcast index smo and the U which is which is fine. But like I need these things change they morph all the time. They're shapeshifters you know what today it's this one Korean spam thing that is just like below and things up? I mean, hundreds a day

Adam CurryAdam Curry

and are they coming in from one hosting provider? Multiple

Dave JonesDave Jones

and but but a couple of a couple of months ago it was this Vietnamese gambling side and before that, it was the escorts you know, and before that, it was movies, streaming movies and always constant is a constant battle. And what I would love is to somehow make this an interactive a cooperative thing with us and the hosts and everybody all of

us together Yeah. To identify these things and and give a heads up and build out the things to keep to get this because what what this is about is SEO you you create a you use the trial account on a on a podcast host he's not you you hit sign up for the 714 day trial what the whatever that is, yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

this is this is where it all comes from, of course, is exactly

Dave JonesDave Jones

where it comes from you you open up a hosting account with a free under the free trial. You and then you put a bunch of links back to your website in all over the place in the show notes and the title and all this kind of stuff. Yeah, that gets posted out as an HTML page. Because every you know,

most of these hosts also have a page for your account. And the instant SEO, some, some hosts some hosting companies properly set their HTTP response headers and robots dot txt and that kind of thing to block to block the search their search engines from ingesting these free trial account pages, because so many of them don't get in they they still get hammered even if they do that properly. So this is all about SEO abuse. And I think it

this needs to be a multi pronged effort. I think the hosting companies are going to have to crack down on this, yeah, can either make these pages private? Until until it goes live. So yeah, here's a preview of what your page would look like. But this is not going to go live until, you know until your account in this count goes not I can

Adam CurryAdam Curry

track and see where that's a that's a tough lift with the hosting companies, they want people to get an experience get hooked and stay. I mean, I understand from their perspective, what

Dave JonesDave Jones

the because the other thing is, I mean, like so the only other way to combat that is once these once a pattern is identified of abuse, is to document that pattern somewhere. So that all the hosting companies can see it and they can all take action at once right and put in a filter and say like what's been happening for the last week is this one seemingly Korean based spammer is putting is creating free trial accounts on all these hosting companies with the term

o p s, s, s i t, that's the string. And that string is in every single one of these and it's 1000s. And I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

presume that the reason what because the I'm always looking for why why are they doing this? What's the benefit? The benefit is probably the landing page that is automatically created on this host and then that gets picked up by Google and that's how they use it for SEO or something else. Yes,

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's right. They're looking for backlinks. Yeah, it's a backlink strategy. And so like, because this like and this is very common, these these strings that they're using are very easy to identify. So if we had a central place like a report like maybe a private repo on GitHub or something where we could people could all participate and say look I've identified this spam this spam campaign going on right now.

Here's a string I'm gonna put it in the list now you know when you see that string in your like a fingerprinting easy that string in there now blocks this block people from creating graterol

Adam CurryAdam Curry

a crazy idea how about we create a mastodon account that that everyone could post to?

Dave JonesDave Jones

That would that would that'd be okay. Except if it's public, it's more likely to you know a will to see it and know how to evade evade it.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, here's here's another idea. How about a prayer circle, but we all pray that these guys stopped doing this.

Dave JonesDave Jones

This is probably more effective with what we have now. Hey,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

hey, hey, asking you shall be answered. Hey carefulness

Dave JonesDave Jones

this is this is what we have now is not as effective as prayer

Adam CurryAdam Curry

at the moment at the moment I hadn't learned yet I haven't started yet.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, get get cracking brother.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I will I will be so sad. Yeah. We need

Dave JonesDave Jones

to send Yeah, with some we're gonna have to the spammers are out of control we're gonna we're gonna have to send them and send them to the cornfield. So we just need to figure out a way to make that app fair. And I'm and I'm open I just want this to be an open discussion let's talk about it on the on the mastodon and come up with some sort of game plan. Yeah, good. Because I'm waiting because I want to be I want to facilitate this. Like if I like right now I'm logging all of

these things as we block them. I can if I have something as simple as an abuse email address for each host so that I can say okay, here's an here's an email address when I see identify spam campaign and begin to block it I can sindelle a log daily to the to Buzzsprout to transistor to Spreaker to all the hosts and let them give them all in early warning so they can then handle it in their system I'm totally fine to

Adam CurryAdam Curry

do all that because they want it they want to get rid of it to its resources on their into his bowl no one needs that Oh, it's

Dave JonesDave Jones

a pain in the butt Yeah. It's a pain in the butt as manual work and it's just it's just the work was

Adam CurryAdam Curry

just block Korea was blocked Korea. All right IP Block.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Man based on their population, numbers, everything they've gotten blocked themselves. They have you seen that they've got the The lowest birth rate in the entire world.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, it'll we just wait long enough the spammers will die off. Yeah. They have like 1.3 Children, you know, per per per marriage. No, they're dying. They're dying like Japan and China to China eventually will be will just disappear and the US keeps growing because our borders are open.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's great. Hey, man, we had three kids, we did our part you did know, between the replacement value

Adam CurryAdam Curry

between Tina and I've, we have three but you know, that's a combined six marriages. So we didn't do such a great job. Yeah, you're below the fit. We're very below that. I feel bad about that. You should. Sorry. Well, that answers a lot of stuff. I'm I'm kind of Yeah, okay. Good. We got you got some stuff on your list?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I've got stuff on my list it will the iTunes block tag? Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yeah. Yeah. This, you know, I'm, I'm kind of all in with you. It's like, there's lots of stuff that just gets ignored over time. And the iTunes block that they ignore themselves, why should we respect it? You know,

Dave JonesDave Jones

the only reason that I respect it, because I know. I know her hosting companies that use that as their primary identifier of the things they don't want listed. And so I'm like, you know,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

we have a block tag, we have a block tag for that. And we will respect our own block tag, and people just need to start using that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's a good point.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I mean, it's, you only have to change the words iTunes to podcast.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's true. We built it to be completely backwards compatible.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, it's a drop in replacement almost. And then you can actually list exactly, I think we have the list. I know that that let me see I have it on this show. Not nothing. I mean, ha ha ha ha, of course, if I look at show info, show info we have where's my blocks, your block is blocked on Apple, Spotify and Amazon. Apple didn't respect that. I didn't put it in there. It just showed up in their index. Someone else puts it in there.

Dave JonesDave Jones

For clarity for people who don't know what we're talking about. There some call over it pod verse, send us an email and said, Hey, we got a request for this podcast, but it's not in the index. Or it's in the index, but it seems to be hidden remark. Do

Adam CurryAdam Curry

we have a lot of those? Because I get several requests. Hey, I'm not showing up. I tried to add it didn't work. And then you go look, and now I'm trying like, oh, block tag? Who was putting these? It seems like a lot comes from anchor? Or?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay, megaphone? Yeah. I think I think a couple of things are happening here, I think anchor may have because all of a sudden we started getting a lot of these from anchor. And I think anchor may have changed some sort of default or something is what it feels like. Yeah, it does. Anchor may have changed the default to where now there's a block tag. I don't know what

Adam CurryAdam Curry

they're doing. My thought is, they're not playing nice. They set the defaults so that they will have a Spotify advantage. And your podcast doesn't show up in Apple automatically. That's my thinking. And Apple is sitting there going look at these efforts. They're putting a block tag in Hey, you come over here, you add it will add it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, they're like, they're like you think you're doing something but we ignore that tag anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah. So you know, why shouldn't we just start a revolution use the podcast blog tag?

Dave JonesDave Jones

And it's not most of these are not that huge of a deal because they're very, very small podcasts. And so they of course, we fix it every time. But then you hit a you hit one note the other one did today they call emailed about was a big it's a big podcast is forgot which one it was some kind of health scientist guy. But it was a big evidence. He's got a lot of he has a big podcast, it gets popular. And and I look and it's got blog tech sector, yes. And its own megaphone, which is

Spotify. And it's the iTunes block tag is set to Yes, get it but it still appears in Apple's directory. Yeah, but because we respect the tag it does not appear every time the aggregator pulls the feed. It doesn't matter if I unblock it if a if a resurrect that feed is just gonna get read read dead and again, read died again. And so now we only have one choice,

which is ignore the tag. I mean, in I'm like you I think you're I think you might be right I think I think for the podcasting 2.0 hosts hosting companies we have relationships with we may need to say okay, iTunes Since this iTunes tag is not reliable, because the because Apple will not is not respecting it, therefore, we can't properly respect it because it's messing things up. And so if you want your if you want to feel blocked, you're going to have to use the podcast blog tech. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm just chuckling thinking that back in the day, the early days, we got pissed at somebody would send them an email flood who are paying for paying flood. Now, it's like a flood. Yeah. It's like, Hey, if you if you don't take care of this, then we're just going to reroute every single spam account that comes in through you. We're going to create an account on your service.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Do you know about tar pit? And what was?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

What was tar pitting? Again? I

Dave JonesDave Jones

don't remember it's you purposely make your TCP handshake delay for like,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yes. Yes, I remember that, though, man. And there was also there was another cool thing we had if you had someone's IP address. And they were using Windows, you could send this really complicated command. And it would immediately blue screen them. Remember that one?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, that's the one where you like con pipe one. Where

Adam CurryAdam Curry

are you overflowed some buffer somewhere? Yeah, am I doing though? Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's, you know, I was. I don't think we have time to talk about it today. And I don't want to get in. I do want to talk about it next week. Is all the stuff with the pod verse and the

Adam CurryAdam Curry

metadata drama? The Mel

Dave JonesDave Jones

yes, that I want to talk about that next week. But there's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

just just a simple misunderstanding.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think it's more than that. Well, I've got my own. I've gotten my own thoughts

Adam CurryAdam Curry

about it that while we've delayed this for three weeks now, but you know, in, in another week, who will want to talk about it's gone. It's and people aren't talking about it anymore. It's done.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Dad, I've, I've got I've got an extensive set of notes. Okay,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

but so do I. So we'll talk about it next week.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It really reminded me of that, because you remember hot linking to images. These nasty you're stealing

Adam CurryAdam Curry

my bandwidth?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes. Yeah. How dare you, you know, stop me and they you? Oh, man. That was like the biggest thing back then. Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I remember it. Well, I remember it. Well, people would steal my red ball dot GIF.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Or your little gas with the shovel.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

dirt under construction. Oh, goodness. I guess one more thing that came up, which I thought was interesting. Steven B is looking at making landing pages for music for artists. And yeah, it was a productive conversation, I think where it landed to coined the phrase no pun intended. was to use medium equals publisher.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, do we need to? I feel like I feel like we have enough consensus around the publisher feed idea to to formalize that,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I think I think we're pretty close. I mean, I'd like to see if that works for Steven B in what he wants to do, but feels like a good idea. Feels like we're there. I've really seen

Dave JonesDave Jones

no pushback of any magnitude on the publisher feed idea. Everybody that has looked at it seems to be pretty much on Yeah, on the ball. And it's already get it's kind of already getting built out. So I mean, I'm,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm good.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I'm good. Yeah, I'm kind of thinking maybe in the next couple of weeks, go ahead and stick in that. We're at least writing writing it up so people can review it. You

Adam CurryAdam Curry

know, we're coming up on tax season, the nature of your of your real job that actually keeps the lights on in your house and keeps you filled with beef milkshakes. Yeah, you have to leave on time. Oh, wow. And we're already there aren't we?

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's good. We can we can go ahead and start thinking some people know I was gonna play a song but if we don't have time, Oh, good. No, hit it hit. I want to hear a song. I mean, I got my blood pressure was up. Antitrust. Okay, we'll

Adam CurryAdam Curry

play a song. It's a mellow song. This is coming from wave Lake and they've assured me that all the rights have been taken care of so it's on them but it's just the classic. I love this version. John Peterson. We were singing it before we started the show sitting on the dock of the bay. Watch feel free to boost everybody

Unknown

Dark watching dark free school a slightly darker way wasting time cheers change wrist in my bones is wrong long ways to

Adam CurryAdam Curry

go John Peterson sitting on the dock of the bay, podcasting 2.0 Thank you to the anonymous podcast pod verse user who boosted 10,000 SATs. Oh, nice. All right, nice. I liked that version.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, that's a good one. That's a great song. To classic.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Let's thanks people. So besides that anonymous pod verse user Sam Sethi comes in with another 10,000 SATs Dave's activity bridge is an activity stream with a single verb called follow. This then publishes a new post or action every time a new episode is published that I follow. Okay. I'm even more confused by think I think I think I know what we're doing here. Cotton Gin 3333 boosting for sitting on the dock of the bay. Thank you cotton gin and we have that 3333 from anonymous go

podcasting. Let me see we have Cole McCormick. Short roll of ducks. 2222 I see more reason to be aligned with podcasting two point every day. 2.0 every day. Thank you. He says God bless podcasting. I think he has. There's a 10,000 from Sam. Blueberry 5555 Rose swans Oh, Eric peepee that's, that should be swans in the helipad. 5555 I have feeds Oh, yes. I feeds ready for April 6. Taylor sound live and he's got some links here. Today I'm flying out to tour with REO Speedwagon. Whoa,

no. Ah, blueberry man. So yeah, they're doing the big show on I think it's April 12. And blueberry will be on this show. Talk about it. April 5, April 6, I think we look fifth April 5. He also did a big goat drive right after no agenda on Sunday. And he's spending another 5555 this was to to boost and to raise funds for some of the stuff that needed for that concert. It was a bloodbath. We broke Eric p p scoreboard so happy that went well. Yeah, they made the fountain top 10 Oh,

yeah, that was they raised a lot of cash. That's so cool. I love it. Rove ducks from the tone record. Another lunch break listen moving sets between nodes and POS podcast app wallets keeps getting easier. Thanks devs and builders. It's very kind. And let me scroll down here. I think I hit the delimiter. So that's when we see one more came in live here, Alberto. There he is Alberto rss.com boosting from true fans

5000 sets and it says love that version of the song. I don't know if he did it during the song, but I didn't get any remote item. So maybe it came in late, but that's the way it is. But thank you very much. Oberto a good day. Good to see you're listening brother. Yeah. Congratulations with the acquisition of the Beisa half of Mexico. Bison. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Not half more like a you know,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

they bought they bought Mexico. Yeah. Yeah, I think Albury is cheap right now. Umberto is the cartel. Just so you know.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, the kingpin? Yeah, well, we'll stay

Adam CurryAdam Curry

nice. We'll be real nice though.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We got $1,000 for the boys Buzzsprout

Unknown

podcast a bolo. Whoa, Karla. Play on am Paula keeping

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it alive. Thank you. Thank you so much. Buzzsprout appreciate that. Tom

Dave JonesDave Jones

Rossi just sitting around snow ski and all over the place. Get back to work, man.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Get back on that spam.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, you spam is out of control. More Marco Arment coming right in $500 Man

Adam CurryAdam Curry

love it. Oh, much marks. 20 is blamed on the true value for value. We love it. I should have reminded everybody that this whole project everything is is no corporate creepy corporate money. No advertisements, nothing. It's just Adam and Dave running it running with scissors with a band of crazy people over it. No, podcast, index dot social. And all of this keeps the machines running and builds up the builds up the supply. So we keep can keep it running. If we

fall down. Before we've figured out. Alex Gates has figured out how to build the consensus chain, or whatever it sounds like he sounds sexy to me. I like it. I liked

Dave JonesDave Jones

it as a good. It's a good show type of consensus change the Yeah. And I like to remind people, I mean, the hosting companies, and all the podcast apps, they all compete with each other. And they all support it. Also, they all support the index and 2.0. So that because me and the rising tide lifts everybody

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is almost like communism is great. Is a socialist utopia. It is it works.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And thank you guys appreciate that. Kevin Bay $3.83 from the monthly payment from the podcast index and official endowment fund. How much $3.83 Thank you. We may need to look at putting our cash reserves for the index into some sort of like interest bearing account, because it's just basically sitting there losing inflation on a consistent basis.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay, ma'am. We're not getting any interest. No, no,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm sure we can buy a certificate of deposit CD. I'll talk to I'll talk to my man Josh over there at the bank.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, maybe we can do some work. We're just

Adam CurryAdam Curry

small community bank here in Fredericksburg. So we know our money safe. We guess we should buy Monero Yeah, bet it all on crypto. Nathan. G there's a good

Dave JonesDave Jones

plan. Yeah, all in all, Chip. Yes. Yes. Fully

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Dogecoin

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, yeah, yes, Alana. Jean been 3013 37 Lee boosts he says you mentioned Roku basically being an app store. They're also in the advertising game because of the data they know about their user. Yes.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

In fact, they they probably use activity streams and they spy on everything out if you I set up a network I set up a network trap one time just a sniffer. You pick up the remote you just pick it up fires off all kinds of commands back to HQ. Yes, just picking up the remote not touching a button just picking it up. They know the angle you're holding it they know everything so they know they even know the angle I'm yelling Yep, we tilt it it starts sending off data. Oh yeah it's disgusting.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Why why do I just want an ISO of you saying they know the angle you hold it

Adam CurryAdam Curry

was just one that's where we have the ISO bought. I'll get that for you. No problem. debased

Dave JonesDave Jones

ghost 21,011 says through fountain he says DJ my DJ app of choice that is DJ a Why is made by algorithm. The app allows users to use their local music library recording enabled, or log into Beatport Apple Music SoundCloud title recording disabled using streaming service tracks Beatport and SoundCloud offer DJ subs to enable using the library. Oh, now

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I understand. Okay. Yes. So it used to be, you could use these apps you used to be, you could use them on Spotify, and it was an app that you could have on your, on your desktop or on your, on your phone, and it would tap into your Spotify account. And you could basically mix records, mixed tracks, from the Spotify. Library and Spotify, of course, turn that off, because oh, gosh, DJs are using it. It's on a It's not approved use. It would be fantastic. I don't see why, why

that wouldn't be possible. It's just there's no interface for it. But I see I don't see why DJ app couldn't tap into that. And just pull up the songs have the library like split kit or LM beats has and you select and accuse it up and just makes it reading just stream right over the pipe. I see no reason why that wouldn't work.

Dave JonesDave Jones

He says Can the V for V library be made available? DJ creates a playlist for recorded sets using track history. Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, it was great.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I mean, the trick is the mixing part. But otherwise, yeah, I don't see why that wouldn't work. Definitely.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Does. That must been what you use back in the day for me theoretically. Back in the day, when there was, you know, daily source codes. Then you're using that Spotify thing, right for a little

Adam CurryAdam Curry

bit and then they turn it off because it was great. Okay. Yeah, it was great. It was Oh, so cool. That's why they turned it off. Because it's great. Yeah, of course. Oh, Curry's using it turn it off. Loan

Dave JonesDave Jones

loan Yank essential Richards 11112 Fountain he says go podcasting.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes, we can we can go podcast.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Farscape Ian 10,000 says through founding says we need to expose RSS feeds as pair endpoints. What is pair? PE AR what is that? Parian.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

PE I don't know. This is This is yours. To me. This is not something I understand.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Is one of those things where in about 10 seconds the chat room is gonna blow up saying what periods and I'd be like, Oh yeah, duh. I don't know. Mike Dell 1701 Star Trek boost through cast man. He says I have looked at Netflix and Paramount. Plus, Wi Fi likes Netflix. And I like Star Trek. As do I like marks 3111 SATs through fountain he says content greater than network.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Agree. Yes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Jean Everett, who is not Jean been?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes, we've established this. We establish this sent

Dave JonesDave Jones

10,000 SATs through fountain in Reno. What he says comic strip blogger is our delimiter he sent 24,000 SATs. Whoa, mountain.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Thank you so much for blogger. I can't wait for this booster Graham.

Dave JonesDave Jones

He says hold on we get my voice Yeah. How do Jesus fans Adam and Dave. I'd like to recommend shows and podcasts of Ben Drew. He has the excellent YouTube channel for microphone reviews, which you can find at www dot youtube dot coms forward slash podcast EJ. Additionally, he hosts a personal podcast at WW dot band Drew says.com. If you need comprehensive information about all microphones, I encourage you to watch bandroom YouTube channels. His YouTube channels are also

available as audio only podcasts. Andrew is also an avid guitar player, yo CSB.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

coordinator co pilot in networking an endpoint pair represents the communications endpoints for network connection. I don't think that's what we're looking for copilot.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That seems weak. In

Adam CurryAdam Curry

client server communication. The client and server each have their own local endpoint and together they form an endpoint pair for the connection Okay, okay,

Dave JonesDave Jones

let's figure that out yep. Yep, I don't know I'll figure it out let's see yes subsea sup Yo sup it is pronounced guitar

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yes it is get guitar or get fiddle even suffices. Yes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't know why. But again for the second week in a row have post delimiter booster grams and a 50,000 from Kevin Bay. Oh, I just see this. No, I did not. He says thanks for making it possible for me to play DJ with my podcast sets and sounds. It's too much fun and so shocking every time I get a boost. So here's a boost back.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, thank you. Luckily,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't know. I've gotten my algorithm algorithm is mixed

Adam CurryAdam Curry

algorithm algorithm out of sync. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

it's not right to have post delimiter text that's that's an error things wrong there. Pot home also sent Barry there buddy Barry in the Netherlands 50,614 sets the podcast guru. Whoa. He says thank you for all your support guys. I really appreciate it.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

No thank you. Appreciate it. I've been sending customers shoes way. Yeah, people from the Netherlands like hey, I'm Dutch. Oh, meet the Dutch meet this guy.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Do you get a lot of emails like that? Hey, I'm done. Oh, yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

very, very much so.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's funny. And finally Nicolas be 58 5000 SATs to fountain he says Bitcoin Association Switzerland is lit back on back on the way home from the meetup boost

Adam CurryAdam Curry

no boosts or as we say, You go,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I will fix my delimiter problem next week.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Okay, thank you all very much. We got some monthlies.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We got some monthly so that Satan's lawyer down under $5.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

How can we not sending 666 I'm so disappointed what an opportunity.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Something to know about Satan. He's diabolical, but he's not exactly forward looking.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And he always overplayed his hand is is my experience.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Very small time horizon. Thank you. Yes. $5. Charles current $5 Christopher Raymer $10. Thank you, Chris. For James Sullivan. $10. Thank you, Cohen, glassbox $5 and Shawn McCune $20 Thank you. So wonderful.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Thank you all so much. As I said earlier, it's a value for value project and podcast. We put all of our Bitcoin bits and bobs our SATs onto the node provide liquidity I still so many people don't know this. If you need a channel, I'll open one to you. That's why we have it and we have plenty of capacity there to open up channels. So just let us know. And of course, we keep all the rest in a non interest bearing account. In an inflation, losing money losing

account, we got to change that is a good point. I hadn't thought about it. But that's really to to keep the index running should harder times hit upon us, Dave and I take nothing. We're very happy to do this. We love it. We love being a part of this community. We love that it's been here if you want to. There's been here this long and continues to flourish.

If you want to support us go to podcast index.org at the bottom to read donate buttons, one for your Fiat fun coupons through PayPal, the other side of Tally coin, nothing on the tally coin today for your unchained donations. And of course we recommend that you check everything out at podcasting. to.org Daniel J. Lewis still looking for more marketing

information for listeners, I'm sending people there. And you can see all the apps there or go to podcast apps.com And thank you so much for supporting podcasting 2.0 And that wraps it up. You gotta get back to the day job. You gotta you gotta hustle, bro. Gotta get going. I

Dave JonesDave Jones

gotta hustle. All right, hustle never stops everybody in the boardroom. Thank

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you for attending. I think we we got into some big stuff today. Looking forward to next we do have a guest next week on the show.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Do What did you ask me that was wrong? Where's my calendar? Sorry. Oh, sorry. No, it's just it's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the first topic will be metadata drama.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yay.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Great weekend Dave. Get into growth my brother Take care everybody see you next Friday for podcasting?

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