Episode 168: Frog Giggin'

podcasting 2.0 February 23 2024 Episode 168 Hello, everybody. Hello everybody in the boardroom Welcome to the official board meeting of podcasting point oh, everything happening at podcasting index.org That new fancy website podcasting two.org Of course, all the things happening with a namespace we have a special guest today. One of the members of the board and everything happening in podcasts index dot social. This is the boardroom that runs its own LLM

Nobody survives against CSB on a did I mean, we'll just make a mockery of view with his cartoons

did I see him typing a prompt and it created an RSS feed with an enclosure is that what is that what I saw? Yeah.

Yeah. And then somebody else said, Hey, try this. And he's like, No, you do it. Okay, I don't want to.

Oh, that already sounds super suspicious.

I've been playing with the NVIDIA chat with RTX tool.

Do you? Do you have the card that you need for that? Yeah, you have an NVIDIA card. Mm hmm.

Get a 3050 It's not a powerful card, but you don't need much you'll all you need is is eight, you need a 3000 series card. And you need which 3050 is like $200 so you can get like you know a 3000 series RTS card minimum and you need a minimum eight gigs of RAM on board cards. So that's what this has. So you can run it nuts. I mean, it's not fast, but it's me but it's doable. But the cool like the interesting thing is like use it loads up all the stuff and it's got a pretty beefy

you Do you remember back in the day when we were talking like a 3050 you would automatically think that means a carburetor for your motorcycle and a big model a big models that you were dating a Kardashian I mean, what has happened to our what has happened to our conversation? Man? My

truck has an auto line 1100 Fulbrighter Exactly, exactly.

Let me take a look at when I'm so I have the I have the LLM are running on the Start OS and let me see what models I have. I have Yeah, the biggest one I have is 7.5 gigs. That's the new ma llama two and the Metho max which is five so yeah, that's a that is a beefy model I don't have something that big.

Oh it's like 32 Gig download huge wow it's huge but it's a drop the podcast namespace into it back into it as the only training material and edited

do you have to say learn this is that we have to do we just say hey, suck this in. What is the what prompt do you give when you do that?

Yeah, you hit the suck this in button.

Really? There's I'm not even gonna question I'm sure there is.

You hit the stop button and it sucks it in and it regenerates everything it takes depending on how much material you give it. It can take a long time but like with just that document it took I don't know a minute and it

keeps that and it stores that forever.

Yeah, I mean, it's it trains it retrains the it retrains the wow. This is the part I don't understand because there's this thing called an RA G so it's like

a it's a reg basically. What you get it's a reg it

creates the reg of the model and then and then you and then you wipe stuff with it. But you get but so I asked it something last data said well, I told it as a generate a podcast and 2.0 chapters file with chapters at these times at these time markers with these titles. Just basically gave it a basic task that it should know how to do off them off the namespace

Impressive is still impressive. No, it

was good. It was good. But it started making up attributes like it was a hallucination is attribute attribute hallucination. And so that it was making it for the for the enclosure tag it gave it like a a bit rate attribute and a height attribute and all these weird things,

correct it or you just say you suck. I'm what do you do at that point?

But yeah, I did say you suck. I said that a couple times. But then also, you could also pull in just I think he could just pull in more spec. They could just keep pulling in, you know, like, if, because I didn't pull in the RSS 2.0. spec itself. I didn't pull in the iTunes namespace like, I think you could just keep piling material in here to give it more to work with. And it would give you better answers. But

oh, man, that's great. So pretty soon just have that thing show up to the podcast.

Yeah, that would be good. And then and you wouldn't even need me. We wouldn't need we can just AI generate the guest. Yeah.

That's pretty cool, though.

It's I mean, it's fun. It's so

fun is the key word. I mean, would you actually put something like that under production for any action? Can you see yourself creating a cron job to do something like that?

And no, like, I know, I guess, let me talk about AI for just a second. Because I've been I've got some thoughts on this. I haven't really, I guess, I don't know, I haven't really spent time trying to figure out my thoughts on it in general. And I guess, like the AI tool, I guess I've just got a couple of thoughts after listening to especially listening to Todd.

Todd. I know, I know. Like, oh, it's so great. I don't have to do it. I don't have to show up. I just throw it on there. But if we're looking to add the believer he usable believers definitely as a follower of the Chad G pts.

And I cannot tell I'm not gonna take that away from him. I mean, clearly, there's some. I think what we have to, here's my, here's where I think I stand right now is if so, I guess number one, two, these AI tools being built for that are being built for stuff like podcasting, they work, you can see that they will work well, when they're targeted for specific tasks, or processes. Yes, yeah. Where in this, I think this is key, where there's a human approval step at the end

I mean, I've used it. I use my old models that I said, and I'm going to blow my cover on this one, but Mark void zero, you know, he started his own IT company. And his number one client is no agenda. That's his first client. Yeah, so we want we wanted to help them out. Yeah, exactly. And so he said, Would you mind writing me a recommendation? blow my cover here. So I went into my, into my, my starred nine. And I gave it you know, like, I don't know, maybe two or three sentences.

It's really hard to contain to keep in your mind that this is Is not that when the AI is pre is when the when the model is giving you results, the language model. I'm gonna I'm trying to be specific say language model not not AI, because it's this is, this is different. So when it's hard to remember this, and when you're using it, but I think it is actually critical to remember is the LLM is not it doesn't know anything. No, in the sense that we mean that we all understand

a parlor trick. Your brain goes, Wow, it's talking to me. Right?

And you may come out with something very useful.

You may not, but you may not.

When I say when I say, give me an item, an RSS podcast item, with an HLS ID alternate enclosure in it, you immediately see a thing in your head, because you know what those words mean? This thing only knows the language models only know, the text that it seen before and the arrangement of in the order of the words in the symbols that those texts appear. And so it's not actually able to give you what you want, in the sense that it knows what you want. No, it's just

like, in my in my example. It's it's learned hundreds 1000s I don't know 10 1000s of glowing reviews probably sucked it in from Yelp. And, and it knows that Yeah, okay. Well, it's this kind of business. Here's the next word. Here's the next word. Yeah. I mean, that's that, I can see that. And a professional writer sees that. I mean, Tina helps people out with resumes all the time. And they'll say, Okay, well, I did a start and she'll get the document just to chat

The other thing I thought of was AI tools. Like the stuff that's being built right now with these sort of like third party startups that are coming up. Those are all those startups those I'm sorry, but those guys are toast the podcast hosting companies Yeah, I think Buzzsprout was the first one to do it with there was a co co host or something like that.

house yeah, and those those little companies will all go broke because I mean, right now this is the investment climate you know, the climate This is where all the investment money's going into. Oh,

in video, man, I mean, they're just printing money right now is ridiculous. I would not be. I'm going to, I gotta I gotta prediction. I would not be surprised if in the end next three years in video buys entail. Oh, that's very

possible. That's possible. It will also be the best short of our lifetime. Once everyone figures out what bullcrap this all really is. Whenever they pivot to quantum computing, whatever comes next comes next. I mean, remember it was machine learning just a year ago. Yeah, it's all it's all branding. It's all brand new stuff anyway. It's not gonna save podcasting. Yeah, that's in podcasting doesn't need saving. No, no. But I've been, I've been doing my, my show prep. And I

It's, it's the math of CPMs is all about, it's about it's all about the advertising. How

about how about serving a community? I

had this issue with that dude, that was around for a while he bailed out of podcasting. But he was making waves all the time about how Spotify was the future of podcasting. I forget that dude's name we used to work.

Where do you come from?

He was like, he's like a podcast consultant. Man, I cannot remember his name. But he was a podcast consultant. And he was like, writing these articles and arguing with people about how part of Spotify was, was the way that all creators and all podcasters in the future, were going to be able to make the most money. Yeah, and all of his arguments were based on on advertising math, if you have this many. So I mean, he's basically a formula like if you have the I mean, Dolby das would

you got a plastic egg with a ring inside.

And I was like, I was like, Well, yeah, but that does any. Anybody stopped to ask the listeners what? Like if they're willing to participate in this formula? Because I'm not sure that it's as easy as all that. Because if we all did that, this formula breaks down I mean, this

Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Well, it's this the same type of people who are telling you, you know, what you should do what your what your you know, your how you do a podcast and you got to choose your topic. I got a I got a one idea. Start a music podcast. This is an open field. Don't don't start a podcast about talking something, whatever the topic is. There's already one there. Start a music podcast.

I've gotten an even better, maybe not better idea. I've got another idea. Start an audio book.

There you go.

I mean, just start doing audio book podcasts and put put value for value tags in it. I mean, he talks about Greenfield like we, every every third week, excuse me two out of every three weeks that I listened to America this week podcast, the short story that they talk about is not available anywhere unknown in audio infuriating. I mean, you listen to that show, find out what audio book there are, excuse me, what what short story they're talking about. It'll take you an

what's the what's the the open source, public domain website the printing press guy, the printing the printing press guy What's the Gutenberg Gutenberg? I think it's Project Gutenberg Thank you. You can go to Project Gutenberg you can find all kinds of books classics, even that are public domain and start reading and recording. Yeah, I actually started I started it with Tom Swift. Which I at the time I was

One Tom Swift, kind of like Hardy Boys. But yeah, a pretty Hardy

Boys. Yeah, he was an inventor. And you know, he had a flying machine. And then he has submarine and Victor Appleton, which is not even that's a pen name that several authors used.

And I like Mark, like Mark Bognor again, Mark. Exactly.

And I actually started reading a couple of those for an audio book project. A while back now of course, I never completed it. But that's because other things got in the way. But I was like, this is kind of fun to read all kinds of stuff like that. I was. I was invited to listen to this crew. I was invited to something called the V for V roundtable. I heard about it was it's a podcast, and it was so new. I didn't realize it was episode number one. And they had asked

of the for V for just they wanted to do awards for just music just for anything.

I think for music. Yeah, I think from us, okay.

That's like how can you do that funny though? I would watch it I would watch the music course.

What a train wreck that would be.

No I would that's why

these days award shows are so wrong because it's a business model. You charge people to submit. And I was never used to be that way used to be. You know your peers. And who can be appear in this bit. It's impossible. All of this is an arachnid and an arachnid NISM. What is it

an anachronism that I think you're talking about spiders. I think that's what yeah, that yes, arachnophobia.

That's my problem. But an arachnid. I can't say the word no.

anachronism, anachronism.

And anachronism. anachronism. Yes.

Vestigial?

Yes, definitely. There you go. Perfect.

Do we want to dare venture into this into the fees discussion?

Why don't we bring our guests in because he'll be he'll be more fun to talk about. He's been waiting patiently for about 20 minutes here. He is no stranger to the boardroom. And he has been in the podcasting 2.0 projects from very early days. And he is as far as I know, the first guest ever who sent his own questions. Which I thought was just great. He's like, hey, we you're going to be on the pocket? Yeah, here's some I have some that was it. Here's some talking points. I thought

is eight o'clock sharp.

I have an important question. Right off the top that you are you in Paris? I forget if you're in Paris. I am in Paris. Yes. So what's up with the farmers? How's that gone? Did they really are they really pouring a cow poop into government buildings because I love that idea. Yeah,

but no in Paris there weren't allowed to get into Paris. So we haven't seen them. And actually, it didn't last very long. So have their back to their farms now.

Yeah. But is that resolved? Are they happy now? Because they seem pretty angry.

Is this a political podcast? No,

no. I like farmers. I'm just purely interested in because you're seeing these protests around the world. And no one in America ever talks about it and our farmers. I don't know what they're doing. They're not pouring cow manure in anywhere. And you see it all all over Europe. I'm just Curious, is that is that fixed? Are they happy? I mean, do you guys have food to eat?

No, nothing is fixed, but they got home because the only thing that they managed to to get is to, to be allowed to use pesticides and everything and to stop all the ecological loads.

So the climate change stuff. Yeah.

So like the climate. Yeah. So they say, good enough, but they'll probably be bad, like next year or within six months, but I'm just impressed.

I'm impressed with the French farmer that impressed with the Dutch farmers and the Germans. I'm just impressed with it. Because we don't have anything like that. That

happens now. We did we put on we don't protest. We

put on pink pussy hats and walk around. Yeah, that's

all cool. You probably have to be really careful when you're watching the news, because it's like, a huge magnifier.

No, no, you're kidding. No way, Benjamin. You mean the news is full

of crap. It isn't. But like the country weren't just like a crap and the fire and it was very localized.

Yeah. Gotcha. crap and fire crap and fire. Great show title. Yes.

Right off the bat.

Brother, we are so happy that you that you're back in the boardroom? Because I mean, you wanted to give us an update on Casta pod because it's been How long has it been? It's been over a year and a half. Maybe since we last had you on?

I think it's way more it's I think it's two years. Yeah, I was here on episode 29.

Wow. Yeah. So well. So

that's very nervous about, tell us about Cassiopeia. But I also want to tell I want you to explain the cast pod index as well.

Oh, sure. Well, castor pod, as you know, is our open source hosting platform, which we've been developing for three years now. We started exactly when you guys started podcasting. 2.0. So, yeah, that's over three years now. And we've moving forward, we have a huge roadmap, and many, many things coming this year. Think we have new new

just so not everybody knows we have cast a pod.org, which is the Open Source Self, you can self host it. And then I think you have cast a pod.com, which includes hosting for a small fee. Is that still in place? Yeah,

that's correct. We just like copied what WordPress is doing. We right, we'd like to, we like to think that we are the WordPress for our podcast. In a sense that we use the same technology, which is PHP, MySQL. If you want to self host on a very cheap shared hosting, you can unzip a zip file, and then run the wizard, and you're ready to go and podcasts. And we also have two websites the.org casper.org, where you can download the whole server, and on kasturba.com

can you give us an idea of how many people are using self hosted versus hosted? And I just have no you've been around. You've been doing this for a while. So I'm just curious how the how the uptake has been.

I cannot give you the exact numbers for a very simple reason. We don't have any. Anything within Cassiopeia that tells you when someone installs it, we don't know so and they are quite a bunch of podcasts that are using customer pod self hosted and that are not registered on the podcast index. Oh, really. I've yet found some of them. And quite often, usually, I'm aware of them when John Spurlock says, Oh, this is something that's Cassiopeia podcasts, but she's trying to

is this is this on purpose is it just don't want to be in the index, or it's not known to them.

I think we can call that a bug. Basically, what we should be doing is, when the wizard ends, the castor pod installation system, we should add a button do you wish to register to podcast index? And my guess is that most most podcasts that are not in the podcast index, it's just because they don't know what that exists. Okay, we

probably got a real, I got a real easy way for you to do that, then you can, you can just send positing the as you send a pod pay we have, we have the our web sub hub also acts acts as a pod ping generator. So you can call pub dot podcast index.org Pub notify, and then just send the pod paying in his No, there's no authentication keys required. If you just send this in that as soon as somebody rolls in new, a new cast a pod instance, then we'll pick the feed up and everybody else

then we know that there are many, many ways of doing that. It's just something that it we have a huge pile of, of tasks are on our to do list. And that's something that we should have done years ago, and we still haven't

we know how this works. Benjamin, no worries. No worries, Dave and I still have to go on vacation together. Not this at the bottom of the stack.

We're very lucky what but yeah, exactly. Exactly. What if so. So this is an interesting, I don't want to derail you, but I just I'm trying to make a mental note to come back to this because Mitch, Mitch from pod verse is also trying to transition more into being a maintainer and building up a community around pod verse that will contribute open source code. And it sounds like Castor pod has is been pretty slick.

Yeah, but it's, we're not there yet. There are still work to do. Am I encouraging anyone who wants to get involved to to get on our GitLab server on the code that casper.org And there could the number of issues we have on GitLab is so long that we could use a hand so and just to answer

still still funded? partially or entirely for the for the project by government net? And yes Annelle net? Oh, that's that NLnet is that now European? What like is that now EU money and l net? Or is L net? Where did they get their funding from? I forgot

Yeah. From from EU EEA. European Union. Yeah. Yeah, partly still, too. So we are still partly funded by NL net European Union. And that's just a small part of our what it really costs in the end, of

course. Of course, they should force all those all those people at the EU to use cast the pod for their podcast. Yeah, I don't think they do. I know they use all kinds of stuff. And I follow a lot of EU podcast, but they're never on cast a pod to my knowledge.

Yes, some are getting there. I think the one of the problem that we have both Yasin and me is that we're, I guess, not that bad developing stuff, but we're not that good for setting them. Even if it's setting for free. So

when government I find if you make it 10,000 euros, that's when they all want to have as you say, you want it the wrong way with these government people. Yeah, they don't like free, they can't be good. We need to get something from Boeing. That cost a lot of money.

I like the way you said that. We're we're not bad at developing things. But we're not good at selling things. Yep, pretty much that pretty much no, that that's most open source

projects best. Right? That's right.

Let's we have pretty good feedbacks from the whole community. We have a local radio networks that are using Castor pod now. So we're getting there. Yeah. The future is very interesting. I'm very excited about what this year will bring.

How much am many of your, how many caster pod users do you have a feel are French versus outside of France? Is there? What does that look like?

I think it reflects the number of podcasts that they are like worldwide. Obviously, we have another maybe 5050 podcast French podcasts using gastropod. So that like 10%. But if you compare that to the number in the podcast indexed, I looked this morning, they were 90,000 podcasts in French. So I don't know if they're Canadians or French, Swiss, or Belgium. But so that lets that know 107 compared to like 2 million in English, right, and I guess like eight

i i We were talking about AI just a little bit ago. And I have a theory about this. You know, one of the things that all it comes is come around like three times now it's like, oh, this company will now transcribe your podcast into five different languages with natural sounding voices. And when I'm always surprised by is that it's never the other way around. I don't hear any. And this is what my question would be. Are there any companies who are saying we'll take your French spoken podcast

Not that I know of? And I don't know. And the Yeah, the podcasting market is really, really different from everything else that we know why. My guess is because it's a hippie stuff from the beginning. Like the fact that

like hippie stuff, all right, there's another show.

The fact that it's still uses technology from the 90s, where you can choose the hosting company, you can choose the index, you can choose the app for playing the podcast, make it really difficult for big corporations to make money out of it. And so they tend not to be interested in it, I think. And even if you look at the the dynamic or do insertion markets for advertising, on podcasting, it's tiny, really, really small

It's interesting because I was in Italy last year, September. And I think it was, I think it was Spotify. But something had happened. And all of a sudden, Italy was crazy about podcasts. And they had never really picked it up before. And I don't know if it was one certain. My my nephew and nieces were like, oh, yeah, no, this this one guy, and he's doing a podcast and this comedians doing a podcast, and somehow it just caught fire. And all of a sudden the whole

in France? Yeah. Basically, the whole industry here is if it is. organized and by the radio networks, right. I was looking at some numbers. In France 67% of every audio consumption is done on the radio networks. And only 10% is podcasts. Right. And in this 10 percents, three is for indie podcast, and seven is for the radio podcasts. Gotcha. So the radio industry is still very, very strong.

But you trust those numbers, you trust those numbers? Where that where's the measurement for that coming from?

Even if you don't trust them? The difference is so so big that okay, yeah, at some points. And yeah, you can see that people are still listening. I think 60% of French people are listening to the radio, like every day. So we have a very strong radio culture here.

It's funny to me how that how that works in different in different in different cultures, like I had heard somebody telling me as maybe a year ago that, like, Japan has a really intense fax machine culture, if you go to Japan, it's just they fax everything. This is I mean, still to today. I mean, this is not some, this is not we're not talking about two decades ago, like the right now they, it's just become part of their culture. And it's like, almost to an identity level.

we don't get even many Canadian podcasts like French speaking Canadian podcasts. We don't get that many of them. So yeah, you're probably right. And the thing is, if you watch Netflix in France, you'll get many, many US programs and from everywhere, but

it's called democracy bad. That's how we spread democracy.

The main reason for that is probably the closed caption. So this is probably where the transcript tag will change everything that Apple is going to use it. Maybe that will change many things.

Is there a need Oh, this is interest. Sing. Now I grew up in the Netherlands where I believe people learned English by watching American and am British but American television shows with subtitles. In fact, I'm really good at watching anything with subtitles, because that's just how we roll. And this is how my daughter's learned English. Yes. So is it? Should we be creating? or should there be services that create translations of transcripts?

Not necessarily. Because if you have an English spoken podcast with English subtitles, usually is going to be enough. You can maybe you need the French transcription and translated if you're very young, but the you know, the problem with the American accent is that we don't understand anything that you say really, especially if you're if you're from Texas.

Okay. Okay, so keep going.

So when I say that I sat down yesterday and played the guitar across the same way to

but the thing is, we are there are very, very few person listening to American podcast in France, because it's really hard to understand. The underside lists. You already are, you took about a sparkle and I think that serial was the one you guys had in the US.

Yeah, that region, that region in reignited podcasting in 2015, or something. 2016. Yeah,

14, I guess. But yeah. And I listened to that show, and I really loved it. But I have to admit, like, there was hard to follow on some, yeah, some details. And the thing is, like, I can do the dishes, or Iran or stuff like that, but I need, like 90% of my brain, if I want to listen to a podcast that's in English, yeah. And I cannot understand anything else. Whereas if it's in French, I can do it. But

I gotta tell you, I mean, I would really love to see French independent podcasts, I saw this happen in the Netherlands, it kind of happened over the past four or five years. A few guys, you know, really were pushing it hard. And then they, and then just something happened. And he got a couple of shows. And then all the kids all sudden, were listening to podcasts. I mean, they can happen. It just had just maybe it's a cultural thing. But I think it can happen

it, because there are some really, really good podcasts in France. The thing is, you need the audience to meet the podcast. And that's something that's not automatic. And you need probably people to move from the radio to the podcast, and there's a discoverability issue. That's the program that everyone says, If I'm a listener, where do where do I get podcasts? How do I find them? And if you're a

Okay? Because tell us now that Apple is doing that tell us.

The thing is, if you look at the podcasting ecosystem now, in terms of SEO, we are exactly at the point where we were for the web in 1995.

You're still using Internet Explorer.

Yeah, or Netscape or mosaic how I was using links, links. Yeah, there

you go. That's a real man uses links. Absolutely.

All the way down to the blood. Yeah,

it does images. Now, you know, links is pretty has developed over time.

And back then, we were using Yahoo, and AltaVista and these search engine, they only looked at the title and maybe some meta metadata. And that sets and this is what podcasting is right now. Looking for podcasts in Apple podcasts is impossible. If you're looking for something, the keyword needs to be in the title, otherwise, you're 100% sure that you won't find it. Right. So we are still just looking searching within the title and some metadata. If you

Yeah. Because Apple, because Apple added it. Now they're looking at it, of course.

So I'm using one of our snowball effects Now, regarding the translation, the transcription, sorry. And, and we meaning that now, it will be possible to index everything and to index the content and to know exactly what it's talking about. And the discoverability will change radically, radically.

So it how many. So when it comes to OP three, how many? Are there any French podcasts that you have no, of using op three, because I would love to see what the consumption? I would love to see what the app app breakdown is. And see what what apps people are using in France to listen to French podcasts?

Oh, yeah, that's very easy. I don't have the number is going to be app already. But actually, no, there is no, there is no rule. It really depends on the podcast. It depends also on the country. But it's Yeah, depends on the podcast, like a podcast talking about open source. And there are many of these using castable. Use usually, Apple and Spotify are not the first ones. So it depends on the audience. You can have surprises

everywhere. No, I agree with that. I, I love the individual stats that op three delivers. I see I see my stats, I see pod verse and podcast guru up there very high, sometimes higher than Apple or any other app you write it depends on audience. And that's by the way, I I'm not a big fan of looking at, you know, who's number one across everything. You know, to me, that's a senseless award shows.

Yeah, and that's not the point at all of Opie three. And I know that John's said it, he, there's there is no top 10 on the on the mp3, he doesn't want it good. Good. That's that's not the goal for that tool. But nevertheless, it's interesting to see and to get numbers on how it's used. But in the end, you know that if a host says listen to my podcast on Apple podcast and give me stars, guess what this is where the user will go. If you say use something for a new podcast

let me push back on that for a second, though, because that's that's it's sort of it's circular, though. Because when somebody when you're listening to a podcast, and somebody says, listen to us on Apple podcast, you're already listening to the podcasts or you're already listening to it on something. So now I can see that you would switch that could cause you to switch to a different podcast app. But how

The exact same mechanism. Like when you used to go on a websites with Internet Explorer, and they said, Yeah, you better use Chrome

or Firefox. Yeah. Yep. Same. That took years. But it worked. Yeah,

eventually it works. And also, you also have to, to know that many listeners, they discover the podcast on the podcast websites, yes. And they click play within Firefox or Chrome or Internet Explorer, maybe? I don't know. So that's the entry. Usually that's the entry points, because still going back to discoverability, and search engines, if you there's that many goods search engine for podcasting. So if you look by you're probably searched in Google, and Google will lead you to the website.

That's how I've so no agenda. Yeah, it's been around a long time. But we have we've never asked for ratings never and we have as many five stars as one stars on Apple. We think we might have been featured once 10 years ago. But we've I mean, we've never marketed never spent a dime on it. We've just asked our listeners to do that. I think that's so underrated. And we ask your listeners to to tell people, there's no discovery really? Yeah, we buy now where

But I was, you know, I'm thinking that I think pod roll will help this a lot. It will help bring, bring some

wasn't a recommendation, a big push for you, Ben.

Yeah. It's something that I wrote like, three years ago, almost. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. And if you're, if you look back at my example, about SEO, there was a radical change in SEO when Google started working and indexed the whole pages and all the contents. So that's one key feature that we need. And my guess is that that will have that with the transcriptions. The other part for Google was the PageRank. If you remember, it's impossible to see it, but

thing was the thing with POD roll, which I think is a start of what of what we're talking about here is everyone's busy, but I'm just looking at the at the Apps page. I think the only app that supports it is while true fans and pod friend and no other app seems to be supporting it, which is a shame because it's it's it's so it's such an obvious good feature. And we've seen the success of a blog role and and as just as you said, you can start to build these these links and these

It seems like something new. as an app developer, it would not be too complex. But when you finish, when you finish an episode, you know, or you are alongside an episode, there's somewhere visually you can indicate, well, here's here's some other podcasts that this show recommends. To me, because the linkage and everything is pretty, it's there. It's really straightforward. And I think, you know, I just doesn't seem like a, it doesn't seem like a

It's on the roadmap, but on top of exactly in

the list, right? In the list. Yeah, I guess you. What can we talk about? Wait, let me let me take a detour here. I want to talk about social a little bit because one of the biggest things about cast apod in this has been from the very beginning. And I will cop to this that I early on and one of the developer roundtables that that we had, you, you and your scene got on to the zoom. And we're saying that podcasting really did benefit from having a deeper integration with activity

Well, I think you, you need to keep that as simple as possible. I'm not very comfortable with the fact that you have many actors, because you don't know how this will behave on the other platform on the fediverse. And we have many feedbacks from users saying, Well, I'm a bit lost because I

cuz what I could see is like that right now, the bridge, you can follow a podcast, as an as an actor, you can follow a podcast on the fediverse through the podcast, index bridge. But if that was a cast a pod podcast, then what I would want to do probably is forward those requests basically, treat that as as if the account had moved from the bridge to the to cast upon itself,

which through that hassle, I think that's too complex. Where you're going to draw, you

wouldn't, you wouldn't want to redirect them to the official cast upon instance,

I would have the link on my bio and say, my podcast is here. Subscribe,

instead of doing it at the activity level, yeah. Okay, keep it so yeah, either way, either way. I just want like if you have a podcast, and you have a cast apod so if you have if your podcast is on the fediverse. But then you also have an account on the fediverse. I just want to know that you are the one who's the podcaster. Yeah.

Yeah, so that's something that we have to add to gastropod. Like he's, you know, it, we're

gonna add that how would you do it? Like, what would you bow would your design be?

Or your you add metadata rail, you know, and to, and that's, it's

the same set the method? Yeah.

And you do it both ways. So right, now we've cast it, but there is no way to do it either way. But that's not something very difficult to do. It's just a link.

But what would it look like in the RSS feed, though? So if I'm declaring my past,

that's not RSS. That's not in the RSS, you have to put that on the web page.

Right now, I understand. But with from an RSS standpoint, how do we know? How do I how does the index, I want to wait for your index to know? Oh,

you can add the link in the RSS the same, you would add it in the HTML page? You just have. You need the app, Id the player to look into the RSS feed and, and verify if if everything's okay.

Yeah. So with the the link, so that you would have to the link, I think link is an atom tag, right? You'd have to declare the atom namespace and bring that in with the row. Okay. Yeah, we've got some options here. I mean, that's because that's really where I want. It's really where I want things to be. Because the social interact stuff is working really well. I mean, I think that tag is great. It's just, it's, it's lacking this one bit of information, which is where are

that person tag. Yeah, person tag with a rel equals Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like the easy way to do it.

In the HTML page, it's just like a h ref. And then the link to your, your a mastodon account rel equals me. So you could put the same in the RSS exactly the same. Yeah, but the thing is, if you do that, it's you have to, it's not going to be very symmetric, you have to think of which app we'll try to verify and how those that's going to work. But that's how I would do it. Just to say I'm the owner of this.

Right? I

am, sorry, just together make to step backs about the whole fediverse and activity web stuff, because we know it's complex. And not all users understand why we're doing that. The whole point of Castile pod when we began working on it, was to make sure that podcaster stay in control, and Ghana don't get ripped off of their their value. And the value of a

no, go ahead. I'm sorry. Finish your question. Finish your thought.

When you when you when you create a podcast on Casta pod no one can steal what you created. Neither the content nor the audience.

Day Have you been I know you've been looking at? Oh, I saw some threads about blue sky. What am I now to understand that there could be a bridge between a podcast through the index activity pub and then ultimately bridge through to blue sky?

That the I think people are making Blue Sky bridges. Okay, I don't

because that doesn't mean it's real federal That to me is real. fediverse when that stuff happens was

that I think the blue sky stuff that I saw this week was about them federating amongst themselves Okay, all right, like because you said that you could have other personal data servers within blue sky but I don't and I know there are projects going that will that will bridge

Federer I sure hope so. I sure hope so because I really enjoy the the nostril BRIDGES I mean, I love following people who are on nostra except for the long numbers or whatever but but I it to me it's like I see more and more of a you know, the and I have my own my own Mastodon instance. I love having it kind of the hub of all these different social networks to me that's that's That is the true fediverse There.

It feels like the activity pub. It feels like activity pub fediverse is sort of the hub that these other ones are attaching detaching to Yeah, yeah it's like it's like you have you know, imagine it as like Mickey Mouse's head with the Fed or you know with activity pub as the as the as the face in the the blue sky is one of the ears and nostrils the other ear. Got it? That's what it feels like.

Let's let's take a little break here gentlemen, let's play a little bit of music as we'd like to do here on the so we can keep our stats up there and that our says blue.com stats page. Nice. Benjamin, I will tell you, disappointingly, I could not find or nor do I have a way to find any French songs in that are up on value for value. I would love to have some Shawn songs to play. I've found some Japanese should have told me

I would have looked for it

I mean there's unfortunately there's no way to really find out I don't think if a song is in the French language is there I don't think there is

but it's the language tag in the RSS yeah so certainly

now with music Well if you find any Benjamin I love I love short songs

yeah I think it's if I have to

that's okay thank you that's fine take it away we're gonna play new artists Emily Rana nice and short this one I think people like it this is called someone else clothes

as a stranger in my house in my house own house in my house someone else someone else there's a stranger in my house in my house but it's easy someone else someone wish I could kick you and change the lungs will make excuses

Emily Rana, someone else I'd like this song for a number of reasons one because it's it's kind of like the Ainsley Costello Poppy vibe. And you need that these days too, because I believe this is an artist who assigned with phantom power music. And I really like what those guys are doing because they're they're taking some very simple concepts of record promotion, they email me with, you know, three, three

I'm gonna I'm resisting the urge to get into fee discussions here because I'm afraid everybody would just draw their forehead into the wall.

I don't know I think activity pub got me ready to shoot myself. But you know, a few

will say it will say I want

to say where? Let me see. Then I wanted to just because you were so kind to send through a bunch of questions, I wanted to roll through your needs, you had three we need. And so we just walked through those for a second. Because, you know, seems like seems like it's something you want to talk about. I don't know.

Worse and an ad, yeah,

analytics tags source tag and a tag to create an ad ecosystem. Or we could talk about why affiliation is the only solution to save the internet from online ads.

How many? How much time do we have?

Well, we got we got two minutes.

I'd be very quick. No. Since fade seven is closing on June. The First I was thinking that maybe we could add a little, little. Yeah, a few more tags so that they don't get bored.

Oh, okay.

Yes, thank you. All right, thinking of maybe Okay,

so All right. Let's talk about him.

Yeah, so we talked about the recommendation tag that's probably need complete rewrites. I was thinking about an a podcast analytics tag, because the other day I was looking at some podcasts in mp3, and you have to find the UID and see if it exist. And if you get a four, four, it's mean that it's not there. So maybe just add a link to the OP three page for this specific podcast. So that you know if it's worth looking there, if it's here, and that's

Are you talking about using the ISO 3166? Code? Exactly? Yeah, yeah.

That would be cool as well. Even if not everyone uses it, it will give you a real idea of the numbers. Because we really can tell now, unless we know that all of them. And so

something like the location tag location tag is what the is what the is the location that the podcast is about. But the country tag would be where it's originated. Origin.

Yeah, exactly. Because if you use the location tag, to specify where the podcast was recorded, James Cridland will get you. And yes.

Because yes, which is why no one uses it. I'm afraid to do it wrong. I don't want Cridland to slap me. Yeah. That's, I'm a fan of that. I mean, people, people use it, or PayPal, uses the 3166. And I always appreciate that when we have donations for no agenda. Because no matter what we are town, and believe me, there's a lot of Paris. You know, then you can really see what country it is. And I I'm all for that. I

As I like to two letters like is that the two letter codes?

Yeah, yeah, it's exactly what I guess. Okay.

I think we also need a source tag to know where the podcast was originally broadcasted, or published. So if, if before being a podcast, it was a Twitch live, or it was a live item, or it was maybe on YouTube or on A radio network so that you know where it was before being a podcast. Or maybe it's a rerun. And that could be very useful in France, where, you know, we don't do everything the same way.

Oh, you mean that if if, if there's a podcast episode you're listening to, you would want to know whether that originally was like a radio program?

Exactly if what we call native podcasts, which means it was published as a podcast first, or if it's a rerun or not. are a few radio podcasts? Yeah. And it would, it would provide useful information to know where it was published in the first place. Yeah, okay. So it's a URL. And if it's empty, it means it's what we call in French. Podcasts. Native, native. Native native. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You speak French?

May we? Speak of James Cridland? For just a moment. You interviewed him for? What magazine? Was

that for? Loop? Podcast? Magazine? Yes.

The podcast magazine, which is a? I mean, that's a beautiful product.

Actually, it is. Yeah. 200 pages as a

real? What's the circulation of that? There's a lot of people and how do you even distribute that? Do you have to order it? Or can or is there put them at newsstands? Do you throw them out? Your car window? How do people get those?

Know you subscribe on podcast. magazine.fr.

And then you get it in the mail? Yeah. And yes, it's,

it's published by a guy named Philip chapeau. Who is also

like, that's like Phil hat. Is that his name? Philip? Chapeau. Phil hat.

Exactly. Yeah. Actually, James Cridland calls him Mr. Hats.

There you go. Mr. Hat? Yes. You sent me some clips. Which I did. I didn't know that. That you recorded it. Was that from the interview that you recorded? And then you just transcribed it? Or did you publish these somewhere? No,

no one. Ever heard that before?

Oh, well, can I play the one where you ask James about me? Because obviously, it's about me. I think that's the most important clip, please.

Oh, here we go. Oh, you know,

wait a minute. I had it set. You did? Left. Right. Really? One second? You did you on left and him on?

Right. Yeah.

You have to play it on mono? Yes. Okay, that takes a second here. Here we go. Let's see if this works.

You know, Adam Korea doesn't mince his words when she disagrees with someone. And that includes you. Are you getting along?

Yes, I think so. Yes, I think so. Absolutely. Absolutely. He and I are both he and I are very similar. Actually, we both are very obsessive about, about what we are interested in. And that means that if people either don't get it or are, you know, willfully not getting it, then, you know, we will be we will not be particularly happy about

Oh, that was kind of him. Yeah, I agree. I'm totally on board. That's, I

agree to Yeah, agree to it's better. Like, it's better to have people get super pissed off. Yeah. And then gripe at each other and figure it out, and then figure it out, figure it out. Yeah, figure it out and move forward. And then you're in then everybody's fine. I mean, that's one thing. That's one thing that defines this group more than any other open source project I can ever remember. Exactly. Yeah. The passion and the disagreement, but then everybody just moves on and

That's why I say we I was gonna say Sam Sethi you didn't have to send a note of apology for what you said about me this week. He sent me he sent me an email. I'm sorry in advance for my passion. was like I Have a curry. There's Adam curry that was like, brother you don't? I've given up my right to be offended long time ago. It's all good. And I love your passion.

And you have to say when you disagree to, to find meaning point in the end. Yeah. Yeah. Which leads me to my last tag. We go because this one I think it's it's something on which Adam and I strongly disagree. Beautiful here we go I think we need a podcast add tag for advertising. Oh,

for a very Why would you think I would disagree with that I'm already interested I like this I just the fact that you're thinking about it makes me interested.

I think you disagree because you're not so much in the advertising. industry or a that's not the way you you wish to promote podcasting. My point of view is that we we cannot let YouTube and we cannot abandon the podcast advertising to YouTube, or to Spotify or to anyone. And there's something I was quite surprised when I first looked at it, the numbers of the how many YouTube channels they are? I don't know if you know that. No. Yeah, because no one knows.

let me jump in here. Are you suggesting just let me see if I'm following along and add tag that is an open call that says you can add an advertisement to this podcast and then there's here's some parameters, etc. So that everyone knows. So you're building an open ecosystem so that advertisers and advertising companies could come from the outside and just utilize that

and share revenue between the host, the app, the podcaster.

So this sounds like this sounds sort of like what Google is trying to do in the browser with their new would get the name of it with this new thing where they're essentially turning the browser into the ad auction platform. But you're saying that so instead of having a centralized ad,

or host only, or a hosting company only, that's kind of how I see it working now, as the hosting companies are doing a lot of that work,

or sandbox. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah, but the thing is, we need to be first to write down this specification so that it meets what we need, what we think would be the right thing to do. For one thing, there's something really cool that I like a lot about the podcasting ecosystem, is that there is no cookie. There's never been any cookies in the podcasting apps. So right now, if you're listening to a podcast with audio insertion, maybe it will be geo localized. But that's about it. Because the

for energy, here's

what I hear rely.

Here's what I would like to see. If if this is something that the advertising we we hear all the time from the

And the part that I like Benjamin, and that's where you where you grab my attention is that everybody shares in it, the host, the podcast, and the app, that part I like, I like a lot. But I'm with Dave, like, hey, you know, you guys are always talking about it. Here's your opportunity. Go build it. Right it Oh, yeah. But

I don't think if we wait for the ad tech to write that. I don't think that's going to go well. They're probably tried to reproduce what they've been doing on the internet for the past 20 years. And I don't like that as, as a as a user. Ad

Tech is abandoning podcasting. Anyway, eventually on the long term, then, I mean, they're, they're gonna bail out, they're already trying to create a narrative of transition that podcasting is is converting to video. Which is completely not completely not true. That but it's because the money is leaving podcasting and going to YouTube. So the ad agencies and the digital advertising market is trying to create this narrative so they can follow the money over to YouTube and bail

Which is exactly my point. I don't abandoned everything to YouTube. So

I guess but I guess what I'm saying is that if they all leave there won't be anybody to even run this system anyway.

I'll be here.

You already I mean, you add

I'm fine. We've 100% of the market shares.

Yeah, you write it up. I vote yes. I vote your vote. I'd love to see it. Yeah, I'd love to see it. We'll call it the cast to

add tag. Yes.

Let's thank a few people as we near the end of our time here today in this board meeting which has been just lovely to to catch up with our our good old friend there. Benjamin bellick Bellamy from from France. We have a number of boosts that came in Dobie das RSS blue with 1000 SAS just came he says I just sent a booster Graham about how I hate fees and all of it went to the artist To Bouverie 808 a boob burry booths this time next week. Homegirl is

a simple that's a cat that's what is the name of that forgot to totally forgot the name of the host it's it's escaping me. It's a guest host Thank you Nathan.

catch those. Another 808 from blueberry dramatic been adding all the music feeds we've hosted to our pre show feed for pod roll can't wait to see it display fully somewhere. There you go. People are publishers. We have a pod roll. I got a pod rollin on my podcast now. D wave DW ev 1789 Mercy Benjamin for a fantastic platform so proud to be contributed to the project. Are you familiar with D wave? Yeah. Okay. And Matt madeiros 1000 SATs coming in from true fans. He says you're thinking

happened? Yeah, he calls waves for a long time. And then he just he waves away to substack and he said one day he said I'm not going to do this anymore by

Joe Martin music with 2100 sets and he says SATs greater than streams. Hear that? Sir Brian of London 1948 This week's episode better be full of Janessa quoi? I think we had beaucoup Shanice ACWA kala Mona. I listened to striper boost 7777 listening live while preparing for my long drive back to Missouri from California this weekend. This is her libre i love playing here in value verse thank you all for your hard

my my my son is currently trying to find a welding gig so he has no time for for torque on paint. You

think you think that the there'll be plenty of openings for welders is

there is yeah there is he's just he's a PCB and he doesn't have his certification yet. Okay. Fully Certified. So he's trying to try to find a gig where he can work and still go to school to get his finisher certification.

Dred Scott, the Bruce Wayne podcast in 2.0 with a nice Rav ducks 22,222 Who says boosting MC boost boost boost back at you drip and drip of course also does our chapters we appreciate that salty Crayon 1111 here on upbeats ranch doing things a little differently going forward might hurt some feelings, but Bitcoin basic education is needed. We got too many clueless cattle running around with no border collie to

like grass finished moose musicians

Yeah, well we definitely need if we need to get Royer we need more more solutions for wallets for sure. For sure. I have resorted to telling people that you know what you can't do have to be afraid of Bitcoin you can buy it right through you're right on Wall Street right through your broker through your your for your your ETF. It's official. It's real. It's not to it's not a scam. And let me see I think I think that's it. Yeah. Then I hit the delimiter. So Dave over to you know,

yeah, we got some Guess pay pals this week? We got Buzzsprout our friends over there with $1,000 monthly donation

Sakala 20 is played on EMTALA.

Thank you so much, guys. That's I mean, Trent.

You're trying to get them back. Yes. Still trying to get them back back on the show can't Yeah, but we this like, scheduling chaos. So it's

not on our end.

History. Yeah, we'll get them on soon. And right, right behind that Marco arm and $500 Yeah, another.

Saqqara plays only Impala. There was an interesting remark on the podcast weekly review that we don't give Marco, any shit for not adding any podcasting 2.0 features that I'm paraphrasing. And I would say that the genesis of what Dave and I are doing here is the podcast index, which is to keep a free and open ecosystem for podcasting, specifically podcast apps. Marco supports us with not just treasure but time and talent, we have a correct me if I'm wrong, we have a

Well, I'm not going to call out any indie app developer for anything. I can't, I can't run their business, and I can't tell them what to do. But he also Yeah, he provides time with syncing and giving us a constant stream of new feeds. And he donates $500 a month. Yeah. So that his own competitors can have an index to use. I mean, it's like it's really hard to criticize that. Exactly. I mean, it's, I don't know what to say. I mean, you

said exactly that. No, you're exactly right. I mean, it's. And yes, he's funding his own competition. So that's beautiful. I love that. Yeah. kawaman where

his mouth is, yes. Really hard to criticize anything about that in front end in likewise, Franco Celerio $100 on when

you hit him a big ball to Sakala

20 blades on him Paula

cat from CAST ematic. And you just says thank you. I mean, there's another there's another app developer, giving money to the index to support us so that other app developers, one of which I emailed with yesterday, who's creating a sermon like religious podcast based app. Oh, and he's trying to figure out, you know, what, how to use the index, and

Nothing like teaching your kid Good. Good. Good practices early on.

Yeah. Let's see we got some boosts we got. Thank you, Thomas. De Jackson. The legend 2000 says three true fans. Oh, great tune. Yeah, sure which to

do which Sam we need some to V record info brother. I know he's working on it.

Pot home berry or buddy over there. 20,000 SAS through podcasts guru says great timing. Live is currently in beta for select users and pod home it's almost ready for the mainstream including an ice cast server hosted by adding the chat tag is something that will make this a more complete feature. Yes. Nice. Yep. Nice. We didn't even talk about that a funnel as the chat tag over the past weekend so no,

I saw it you asked for eyes on I looked at it and went okay, I looked at it I hope it's okay.

We had what I asked for feedback and I got one reply which was Barry saying looks good. I consider that to be successful deployment. Yes. Okay, good. Our W Nash 2000 SATs through fountain he says still missing the Delta Sierra.

Well, to Delta share, Charlie, is that what he means?

A decent Delta Sierra I'm not sure what he means.

Well, it used to be the daily source code was also known as the Delta Share. Charlie I'm not sure what the delta shear is.

I don't know. Gene been 2222 He says another great boardroom discussion Keep up the good work well Thank you Jean for your monitoring and all everything else you do. Oh, there's elite boost from Gene 137 to cast ematic he says also the fountain boost bought in the splits it seems broken it's showing no route

that may be something I have to change me right down my list because they changed the LG nodata Yeah, I think I have to change that. Okay, found some boost.

We got Oscar coming up here in the next good weeks and we're gonna discuss a lot of that type of stuff with him good. Kevin Bay 50,000 says Oh, thank you guys. God verse. Says, Dave, watch Guys and Dolls if you haven't seen it yet. One of my favorite musicals of all time Sinatra and Brando is a classic. i We watched it three weeks ago. And and and I did technical theater, the lighting for guys and dolls when I was in high school.

Did you like it? So did you like the music? Great,

great musical.

What are you watching this week?

Let's see. This week. We watched we actually we watch something that wasn't a musical. We watched. Oh, no. We watched Roman Holiday be seen that movie. Ah. Is that where you pick and who's the who's the Breakfast at Tiffany's?

Audrey Hepburn? Audrey Hepburn? Sure. I've seen it at some point. Yes, she's

the British princess who goes to

they wind up riding around on Vesper scooters a lot. Yeah, okay. I've seen it

as a good movie, but then we also we also watched Julie Andrews in Sound of Music. We're about halfway through that sound of

music. I love that. I can watch that over and over again.

Julie Andrews playing the guitar that's now

that part I could do without but I just like the you know, like when they're running from the Nazis, and they're all hiding. It was spooky and scary when I saw it as a kid and I still love it.

Also bonus points for using the phrase flibbertigibbet which is always a good turn Liberty Jouvet. Yes. Are you are you a fan of musicals? Benjamin? Yeah. Is are their French or their French? They're

miserable. And baby. Lamb is

true. Yeah, many of them are. Regarding movies. Check Domi if you heard of him was very famous. And he inspired like lala land. And really

interesting. When I was a kid, when I was 13 or 12. I live in a very small village outside of Amsterdam. And on Sundays, they would have a movie for the kids at like the kind of town hall ish was what it was. And the movies I liked the most were Louie, Louie funa Yeah, and I mean, he had the like the the crazy Citro n ds that I think that thing could fly. If I remember if I recall, did you ever watch any of those movies? Louis?

Yeah, yeah, sure. Sure. That very famous, probably most famous. funny movies in France. Yeah.

The only a somehow French is it. Francoise Hardy. As she was dubbed in my ear, she she ended up in my Spotify playlist and I'm, I'm a huge fan. Now. I don't know what she's saying. But yeah, we need you to send me some French musicals because my wife has been learned. She's, oh, she speaks French. She speaks French very well. And she's been learning French for years now. And she's, she's very, she speaks it very well. So but she was just saying today that she

Stinky Cheese. Cheese. Yeah, she got she can watch crystal Funabashi movies. Record good.

Let's see we get say that was Kevin Bay. Thank you. Kevin guna Gomez into pod verse 3456 sets congrats with the impressive stats guys. Hopefully we can get over the 69 million sets in 2024. Thank you, man, Franco. Oh, this is Frank. Yeah, this is Franco from cast. ematic 10,000 says coming in, cat suck. You have a chance go see Rocky Horror Show hands down my favorite musical Cats.

And I hate the animal cats. He just hates the musical Cats. Yes. Yeah,

I agree. Thank you, Frank. Ah, sir Brown of London 11 948 Mega Israel boost cast ematic he says definitely saw Mamma Mia in the West End to Oh, yeah. No, I think it originated there. Maybe a comic strip blogger that delimiter 30,000 Different and he says, How do you Dave and Adam? Oh boy, hold

you comics for Blogger always promoting other podcasts that's really appreciated. That wasn't that should have had an add tag

add tag next time CSP funny news your use chat GPT to make it whenever

whenever people do like adds in value for value notes. It didn't never bothers me.

No, not me. Never. It's funny because they're fun. They take they care. Yeah, they like it is personal. And

we don't have to wait for the advertising company. Just send us a check. You know, it's immediate.

It doesn't have to it doesn't break in halfway through a word.

Yes. And we don't have to have a meeting with the client. I love it. It's really good. It's very good.

We got some monthly see. We got we got Satan's law your five $5 from Down Under, which seems appropriate.

I have not listened to his episode yet. I've been resisting I've been resisting Satan.

I just I just love that Satan's lawyer lives down under this. Thanks so much. Michael Gagan $5 Charles current $5 Thank you guys. James Sullivan. $10 Christopher Raymer $10 Sean McCune $20 Think shone. Cohen glotzbach Which I'm sure I've also mispronounced 1000 times please tell me if I'm wrong. $5 Kevin Bay $3.81 from the 2.0 Endowment Fund. Thank you. Thank you. And Jordan Dunnville $10

Wow, good reads Dave. Oh, and right on time beautiful. It now being? What is it? 10? No. 930 in Paris, the beautiful lights of Paris over the sand as lovers stroll by the waterway. Can you see any of that where you are?

No, because I had to shut down the corroding to make sure there is no April. So I see nothing.

Then just cinder blocks and calling in plaster. Benjamin, we

appreciate you so much, man. You've been you've been at this very, very early in the game. Well, as you said, we kind of start at the same time. And you've just been a great supporter and we love what you do with Casta bot. One last question I had for you Has there ever been or have you considered Docker rising this and getting it onto Umbral or my preference start nine

it is Deckard. I think you can install custom pod on the you know host Docker we have a Kubernetes installation and Sybil scraped everything so we have a wonderful community doing all that stuff borrows so we don't have to do and regarding the umbrella I think it's I don't know if someone did it but there there are official Docker images so should be pretty easy to do.

If anyone out there as it knows what to do, I mean if you start nine I would love to have cast the pot and start nine because they're going to do open networking soon so you won't have to deal with just Tor and I and I I would love to try that out here at home so if anyone wants to take that Dockerized stuff and package it up which is a little bit beyond my paygrade I think it'd be great I will promote it that's for sure.

Cast a pod on our on the on the on the umbrella or the start nine plus IPFS podcasting for distribution

really a great win, win win win it will be phenomenal. Absolutely.

PFS won't be that easy. On the other hand, yeah,

we already have IPFS podcasting.

It already works you know Yeah, so

where are you been? Man

we got it. Have you Yeah, have you seen that working been?

I had a quick look.

Yeah, you check it out. It's it's good but like for for somebody who's hosting out of their house and can't afford it would just fall down on the, you know, the bandwidth demand. That's, that's a great solution. Yeah.

The thing is, it requires quite a bunch of refactoring castparts which is why we had a deeper look into that yet.

So with Pell You mean for you mean to put the prefix in? Yeah. Oh, I see what you mean. Okay. Yeah. That makes it well, I guess the Yeah. Because you're, you're uploading directly, okay. Yes. What you make is you'd have to, you'd have to put the D enclosure on a CDN and then put the prefix in. Yeah, we'd have

to change some stuff. First. Yeah. But we'll get there.

No doubt. I mean, this is what's so beautiful. It's like there's no rush. We'll get there. When we get there. The podcast is gonna be around for a long after we're gone. That's the part that I love, love knowing. And

don't ever feel bad or apologize for having a long to do list. Because if your to do list is too short, that's when you burn out.

All right, gentlemen, Benjamin. Thank you very much. We appreciate you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'd like to add two things. If, of course, follow me of course. First, there's one subject that we couldn't talk about is the podcasting 2.0 logo, so we'll have to do that some other time. Because Daniel JD always asked me if I could have a look and make a nice logo for this. I don't know if you could see the thread on Mastodon I have not Yeah. And last I do eat snails and frogs

you know what we actually eat snails here in Texas. It a Bavarian restaurant Believe it or not. So I'm with you on that. I'd like to ask our go the frog we've

been we've been in frogs and Alabama Yeah. Before a year before

France Yes. Exactly. Oh

yeah. With frog frog gig frog Gagan is a Do you know frog Gagan? Do you know that bit now? Frog gigging is you take a little it's like a spear and it has like a trident on the end of it with three prongs. Yeah, you get frog gig and then you get you go and you just pop one of them in great and throw them all in a bucket and then you come back and cut their legs off and eat them.

See See we're not barbarians here. No. I knew that we get we eat snails we eat frog we also eat squirrels. But that's maybe for the foreign for another another episode. We have been known to eat a squirrel or two roadkill. Roadkill frog Gigan Alright everybody. Thank you so much, brother, Dave. Thank you have a great weekend, my brother and don't worry about that to do list. I'll see you guys okay. Viva la que viva la podcast. Thank you very much Benjamin. We love you, man. And

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