Episode 166: Country Clever - podcast episode cover

Episode 166: Country Clever

Feb 02, 20242 hr 3 min
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Podcasting 2.0 February 2nd 2024 Episode 166: "Country Clever"

Adam & Dave Celebrate the RSS Resilience and The art of Musicals

ShowNotes

We are LIT

RSS wins again!

Apple Transcript tag

Joe Rogan Renews Spotify Deal for $250M, Podcast No Longer Exclusive

Apple timing equals 1.0

The Open Road - by Dave Jones - Podcasting 2.0

Licensing

Phantom Power Music

Burnout in open source

TLVs

Apps TLV Breakdown

Helipad On Voltage?

AI in Podcasting

The New PC2.0 Website Project

Categories

Audio books

Fedifying

Nostr Wallet Connect

Welcome - WebLN Guide

Ai Action item list

-------------------------------------

MKUltra chat

Transcript Search

What is Value4Value? - Read all about it at Value4Value.info

V4V Stats

Last Modified 02/02/2024 14:43:56 by Freedom Controller  

Transcript

Adam CurryAdam Curry

podcasting 2.0 February 2 2024 Episode 166 Country clever. Hello, everybody. Hello transcript AI engine. Can you keep up with making the podcast and 2.0? And is the official board meetings of podcasting? In general, not just the two Oh, all of it. That's right. We are the only boardroom that puts the BS and value for value. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country. And in Alabama, the man who sniffs out feed spam faster than a New York rat

looking for pizza. Say hello to my friend on the other end lays down with the one and only Mr. De Joe. Trying to turn your name into Dave Joe. Yes, what you did there. John C. Dvorak. And Dave Joe. Yeah, exactly. I thought that was the funniest bit of the very first podcast in 2.0. Transcribed by Apple that they got your name? Yes. Dave Joe,

Unknown

right out of the gate.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Honestly, it was pretty hard. I mean, I don't think many people could have figured that one out, including the AI Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I mean, when you say you know day to day as I would

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm just leaving it Dave Joe. Hey, Dave. Joe, how you doing? I'm

Dave JonesDave Jones

good. How are you?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm Curtis good over here. Yeah, everything everything's rockin and rollin. I'm waiting for the for the Amazon man. I'm very excited. I ordered a remarkable to

Dave JonesDave Jones

I've seen I've seen little video. By the way. I'm going to be doing this a lot because I've been fighting a cold this week. Now

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is that time of year again for you? It's your your late boys that you're cordially called.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, yes, it is. That I've seen I've seen little like blurbs about this thing. What it's what is it like a note taking device? Yeah, it's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

a buddy of mine. When we went to Dallas. Last week, my my buddy had it. He's like, I was supposed to get one from Guy Kawasaki is his company. He said, Oh, you do my remarkable people podcast and I'll send you one he never sent me once. Okay. Okay, it was part of this but so long ago was probably the remarkable one. So that the remarkable to Yeah, it's like, electronic paper for note taking and I go through so many notepads, those little yellow legal notepads though, I

Dave JonesDave Jones

fly through 10 of those things a month. Yeah. And,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

and, you know, I'm always looking for one and then, you know, as as it get as the stack, as it gets thinner, it gets harder to write on and then you know, like, it has a time for a new one. And, yes, and so the whole thing, it's really just because every single show, I have a page. And you know, and I write down ideas, thoughts, I usually write down, you know, maybe just something beforehand, show titles, just the general stuff and thought, well, it would make sense to have the

gist on some kind of E paper. And I tried it out and I was pretty impressed. It felt good.

Dave JonesDave Jones

The joy of a fresh legal pad that's full that hasn't had any Yeah. You know, like, I mean, it's like, it's hard to replicate this house. Listen, I don't remember what this was. I was listening to a podcast one time a long time ago. And they were saying they had a question that was like if you were if you were fabulously wealthy like you know, leave the planet wealthy

Adam CurryAdam Curry

leave your wife wealthy Yes. So leave you as

Dave JonesDave Jones

if you were that level of fill in the blank wealthy. And you know, what would one completely frivolous absurd thing you would you would do because money was no object. So and I forgot who this was but they were like and I agreed fully with this with what they with what what He said He said I would he said the feeling of fresh socks that you just bought from the store. He's like I would wear a brand new pair of

socks every single day of my life. No, you know like an interesting I feel that I feel that way about legal pads I would have I would just never used the fresh fresh

Adam CurryAdam Curry

legal pad. Well yeah, it would be something like that for me because I had a lot of money at one time and I had helicopters and castles and it doesn't live up to the hype.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It really does a fresh socks every day is no shocks every

Adam CurryAdam Curry

no fresh socks every day is you know might be might be something that will be good compared to all the other things you can do is absolutely true. Absolutely true. Hey RSS wins again brother. We want again RSS wins ago call me on the color and color daddy

Dave JonesDave Jones

the most is this is this the okay let me let me let me explain my my explain

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Morris what that means for people who don't care. Bob with the podcasting industrial complex, and please goodness, call her daddy was a Spotify exclusive three years $60 million rumored because no one really knows these numbers. Yeah, that's no one really knows Joe Rogan's actual number. They just, you know, just became a number. I personally think it's

higher than the 200 million people always said it was. And so that deal, I guess, ended it expired, and she's still on Spotify, but to the feed is open, and it's available on all platforms, including the modern podcast apps.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Now, I've got two thoughts about this. Thought one is, in this case, I've got this feeling that, that she's a blabber. And that people actually do know how much this money was because she seems like the type of person who doesn't keep these things to herself. That bet you I bet you that the rumored amount of this is actually pretty accurate.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, of the first one possibly notice. There's no Rogen. No. Notice, there's no rumored amount of this. Alice, she's open, I think the deal is over. They'll do the acid sales, you know that maybe maybe there's some minimum. But notice, there's no yeah, they remove renew me for 10 million and and we're gonna be an old podcast app. So I'm in agreement with you there that that that would have been part of the part

of the announcement? Was it even an announcement? Or was it just it just kind of happened?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think was a press release. Okay, all right. So um, her not from Spotify as much. That's the way it looked to me. They look like it was from her new publishing company or whatever. The the the other thing is, this is like, this show in particular has always triggered in me, to my doubt of

Unknown

humanity as humanity. Well,

Dave JonesDave Jones

yes, yes. But in a roundabout in a very specific way. That, that we've we're always told that about how squeamish advertisers are and that they never want to be next to controversial content or that kind of this is the nastiest show. I mean, it is just full of all. I mean, it is just not

Adam CurryAdam Curry

raunchy, have you listened, are there ads? Are they pre rolls, they have anything going on?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I have not listened. I lit when she first went exclusive on Spotify. I listened to it to find out what the hype was. And I didn't make it through. I mean, there's, there's you have to rate this show it like F bombs per minute. It is just horrible. And so I didn't I was like, this is totally not my thing. Right. I haven't listened to it in probably, you know, a year whatever. She went exclusive. Let's let's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

see if they ever pre roll on a second. See if they've pre roll. What is up daddy gang? No pre roll. No,

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's not a good sign. No,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I think the deal just ended.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think it did, too. I think you're right. And you know, this is also the other sort of big like deal. News this week was the Smartlist thing moving from Amazon too serious. For 100 in that deal, did renew for $100 million. Over three years.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I believe that and it's three top guys. They got to each do about 10 million a year. It's a lot of how many episodes they do a week.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't know. They just they put out a lot of content. Yeah, yeah. And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

they're, they're they're big names makes it what's it called again? What's the show called smartlace is now is not also available?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes. windowed is like exclusive for the first week and then runs out Dave. Right. Right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Let me see what they do with nine just seems like once a week, and now wait, this one on the second 115. So they're doing one by one a week. Now,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I mean, I feel like I feel like this type of show. So just because all the big, huge deals dried up doesn't mean that nobody's worth a lot of money. There are certain shows that are really worth a lot of money. And this Rogen being one of them obviously smartlace that I think that 100 million. I don't think serious would have paid it if they knew they couldn't if they didn't have a track record of it paying off

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh serious paid a lot of money for Stern. I mean, they Yeah, they're deficit finance. I'm really happy for Jason Bateman though. I hung out with him. That means that we talked about this I hung out with a couple times back in the MTV days he was at the bottom of the stack. His his sister,

Justine Bateman. She was top of the bill. She was I forget what she was in all kinds of stuff and it was visa so yeah, it was so bad that people mistakenly called him just Didn't Bateman you know that I was like it was like he said, people call me Justin Bateman all the time. I think he was doing Teen Wolf four or something like that it was. He was really cool. And he was a super nice guy. I'm like, Oh man, I feel bad for you. It's just kind of sucks. But this is talent. You know, we learned

that talent Sean Hayes talent. So yeah, I mean, I'm sure that series can make it worth their while.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I always judge these things based on if I know anybody who who has ever who shows awareness of this show, in that I know people in my sphere that in my friend, group,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

everyone knows about this show. Everybody knows about it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, so that means I'm like, Okay, if there's recognize if you can just walk you know, if you can just casually be talking in a group with with friends. And this somebody mentions a particular show. That means it's big enough to be justifying the money that people share on the show.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, the three big names so yeah, that makes sense. I don't know if they're gonna make the money back. But you know, they, they do a lot of house ads, advertising for other podcasts. They're really trying to do something that

Dave JonesDave Jones

is breaking news breaking breaking news, Radio, Spotify deal renewal worth up to $250 million podcast will no longer be exclusive to Spotify. Interesting. Nathan just dropped in variety link

Adam CurryAdam Curry

right, but who says is 250 million. Spotify

Dave JonesDave Jones

is a new multi year partnership deal for controversial values

Adam CurryAdam Curry

just said to be worth said to be worth. And

Dave JonesDave Jones

didn't you pat Rogan's poker show will now be available on other audio platforms. In addition being available on Spotify Reagan's show will soon be available on additional services, including Apple podcasts on Apple, Amazon music, YouTube, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so it's no this is this move.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

This move comes under Spotify as revised strategy to relinquish exclusive streaming rights in favor of broader distribution. So that means that they could not make enough money on the ads, if this is true, that they needed more distribution, which is goes back to my original point, RSS wins. Yeah. And I know that buying a spot on Rogen is expensive, a bit because I know someone who tried to buy a spot. He's like, No, I don't have a million dollars. You have to buy, you

know, not just Rogen, you got to buy a random network. So good. Well, I'll ping him and I'll congratulate him on this. And then maybe you'll have me on again. Because he never wants to invite me before his deal was done. Because, you know, I'm going to start probing. Like, what's going on? What's going on? Joe was going on, Joe, I'm happy for him. I was I was concerned. I mean, I was like, hi, hope Spotify has the money.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Said to be worth up to 250 million. So if if the list, let's just say that the room? You know, of course nobody knows accurate things. Let's just say it is let's just say that they're in the

Unknown

ballpark. But let's welcome them back to podcasting, man. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

the old one was 200 million. The new one is 250 million plus non exclusivity. Right. That tells me a lot, right? Yeah, yes. Yeah. He's worth more as a non exclusive than he is as an exclusive. Yeah. And I think that's probably why they're doing all this while their break. Well, they're not doing these. Because there's, you know, there's a lot of stories about Spotify bringing podcasters in to be exclusive. And it wrecked their show. Oh, yeah. You You went

exclusive. You got you got this deal. You went exclusive. The deal ran out. Then you went back on the all the podcast apps. But you had lost all your subscribers and everybody just kind of forgotten about your show. And so you're you now Yes, like you're almost starting from scratch all over again. They just kind of cut you loose to drift off into the ocean. So

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I wonder if he'll be renewing his Lipson feed if he'll if he'll pick that up again.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Huh. Oh, I don't know. That's a good point. Or I would bet is on megaphone.

Unknown

I would doubt that it's because you would think so. Yeah, you would. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Welcome back, Joe. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

indeed. And I'm just looking like, oh, man, he might have changed his number. I think I've lost contacts.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, no. He's ghosting you. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

he changes his phone often. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that he's like just what he'll do is get a new phone. Usually when a new iPhone comes out, he'll get a new phone and he puts the other one aside he says because so many idiots get his number he says six very crazy which I have as well except they're all from China. And they're all chicks the same chick and I'm Tiffany Asia.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Always wanted to always go into get a tennis practice with you for some reason I Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Tennis practice shopping. Are you okay? Haven't heard from you? Anyway, so I think that that really shows that that along with with Apple's entrance into the new into the namespace tag with transcript I think that really shows that RSS without anyone owning without anyone being in charge of it, once again, it just keeps on trucking.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. And and tell me tell me again how to how RSS isn't working. No podcasting, audio, you know how podcasting isn't isn't, you know, paying the bills, I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

think it was I think was Spurlock who posted that. And it's true that YouTube because they had RSS feeds YouTube had RSS feeds with a link to the to the video, which was not as an enclosure or anything. It was just a link. So you could you could actually follow along. You could subscribe to youtube feeds, and they removed them. Yeah, that's all that yeah, surprise, surprise. I know why is because we were talking about putting those into podcast apps. They're

like, Oh, we can't have that. We have shut it down. We haven't even figured out our you know, played status yet. We can't have those guys jumping ahead. That's no good.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But you have the I thought something I listened to upon putting these weekly this morning. And I thought something that they were talking about those pretty interesting. Was this a cast blocking YouTube ingestion?

Unknown

Oh, they have? I don't have to do that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I agree totally with me. No. This is basically what you said back in. You made you made the point so eloquently about saying if you you know if you play with YouTube, you're you know, you're the devil's friend in your ear set your what do you say your Satan's salesperson?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Sounds like me?

Dave JonesDave Jones

In a cast is like, yeah, we're not going to help Satan. We're gonna, we're gonna go our own way. Because I don't know why in your world, you would. Right? It's craziness. You're just giving. If you're if your platform is all based on digital advertising, why would you just hand that off to somebody else to monetize is goofy? Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Wow. Again, this is this is just it's par for the course we've seen it all happened. I mean, it's interesting that there's a parallel here, as we're three years into podcasting, 2.0 og podcasting started. And, I mean, we purposely replicated something I did, which was the daily source code, which was meant for the developers and really just to give someone everybody who was developing an application, we had no apps or phones back then an application

for Windows or Mac. And then there was a, there was some Linux stuff as well, to give them a feed with with a new enclosure every day with a new item, new enclosure. That was that was the whole point. And just to talk about what was going on, and my own personal feedback, so I was kind of feeding back to the developer. So we replicated that with the podcast and 2.0 podcast. And it was about, I want to say it was

about three years in when Steve Jobs called me. And that was that was Apple jumping in saying, hey, we want to do something with this. And it's been about being Yeah, here's the parallel about three years and now Apple says, hey, you know, and they called in, they got they got you. Where's that? I think? It's kind of it's parallel. I like that. These things. I don't know. History doesn't always repeat. But rhyming for sure. For sure.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, right. Yeah, definitely. It definitely rhymes. And I think he that's the other thing about the RSS world is that everybody is there's a there's always with RSS, because it's open source. There's always a rising tide lifts all boats mentality. Sure, sure. People want customers for their app. Yes, that's the I'm not gonna you know, discount that you got to it's these some of these apps are businesses. Some of them aren't. Some of these apps are hobbies and

projects. Some of these apps are businesses, and they won't customers, and that's fine. But they're really always is. I mean, that's why podcasting. 2.0 really has brought the podcast hosting companies together more than they ever were before. They all knew each other, but they didn't. They didn't communicate and participate to the level that they do now. I mean, there's more of a feeling of, you know, we're in this together

type deal. And so I think that, you know, definitely, that's one thing that that is true about open source in general, but especially RSS, because when, like when Apple what I saw was when Apple did this last week. Everybody was happy. I mean, the app developers and everybody was happy because they're like, Well, you know, finally we get we're getting the we do like what Alex said we feel validated. Yes. About the things that we We're doing because now you know they're doing it to the

left, left here in the new media show this week. Rob's like well, maybe this is just a you know, maybe this is just a fluke you

Adam CurryAdam Curry

want he watched I mean, I don't know if Todd's not on I'm sorry. All props to rob but it's the combo you know, you need the two of them. Otherwise, it's just it's not quite as as as dangerous and exciting.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I listened. All I heard was the clip that John's Birla posted, because I'm like, I saw the YouTube link. I'm like, now I'm not listening to that.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, well, I missed the clip. What was the clip? It was

Dave JonesDave Jones

Rob asking them. I forgot the whole detail of it. But it was Rob was talking to their Phil and co host Tom Webster. And he said they meant he was trying to hear I got it

Unknown

here. Let me see. Okay, did see Apple, you know, embrace the transcription tag. But I and many in the industry are kind of like excited about this. And thinking that this is a, you know, a crack of opportunity for the industry to be telling these big companies, while you're kind of unexcited, you know, namespace tags that they will embrace going forward. I do wonder if this is really kind of an anomaly, because of the ubiquity and the interest. How

Adam CurryAdam Curry

long does it take before he says YouTube and video like as another 15 seconds or? Because that's, I watched some of it and like, ah, let's go back to where we are, again, even the title said it. The title I think literally said, you know, we talked about the

Dave JonesDave Jones

what was the title? Like, okay, okay, Rob. So, so, you know, podcasting 2.0 tags. They're not, I don't think he said this. But you know, there's a lot of people, you know, they're not going to be legitimate until a big company adopts them. And then when a big company adopts them, oh, it's just an anomaly. And that's like,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

exactly, I mean, it was 10 years. And everyone said, no, no, no, no. And you're right, the hosting companies were apprehensive, or I'd call it an iron. You know, there were stocks like, well, if Apple doesn't add it, well, how about we just add 15 apps to the mix? And and that happened? And I think it's very cool. Now, I'm still I loved your blog post, by the way. I thought that was great. Oh, thanks. Yeah. Oh,

yes. substack. I thought that was fantastic. Because I'm also one of the crazy ones, you know, I'd like my modern podcast app. I like all of those features. It'll be a long time before any other mainstream app rivals that and I think our apps will go far beyond that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I mean, if you if you want, if that's if you want the crazy listening, full featured listening experience, if you want, if you want to see what podcasting over RSS is, is actually capable of of Yeah, like in a real full, extreme way. You want to podcasting 2.0 my, like, you want one of these crazy apps? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, because you're not, that's not what Apple is. So like, the iPhone used to be the crazy phone, ever, and the BlackBerry was the safe business phone.

Didn't have any weird features. You're right. You know, and, and, but then they slowly switched. And so now, the way it is, is the iPhone, as you get as you become mature and get a huge market share, you become the the stable one, and you become the one that can do crazy things. And so that's what the iPhone became over these years is, and in Apple apps, they need to be and they're going to be slow to add features. And they're going

to be very stable and, and predictable. Because they have because they have, you know, 2 billion users or you know, whatever the number is, but so they're not going to ever be the bleeding edge of feature feature set. And that's what I want. So, you know, I'm not I'm not gonna switch but but that's okay. Like, they will add more. Just like I think, I don't think Spotify cares because I don't think that podcasting. I don't think they care much about podcasting.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

No, they care about keeping the lights on is what they care about.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Exactly the because you see, reading all these articles about those the Universal Music tick tock thing. Yeah, happened this week. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that was that was quite interesting. It

Dave JonesDave Jones

tells you, you see where, you know, Spotify. Spotify is a player in that whole system. And because they were paying Spotify is really just a sticker on top of the music industry. And so the, there's no win win. You're those guys. They don't care about stuff like this. It's just It's purely a money play. It's just pure luck. And the thing about the Apple podcast team is Apple podcasts has never made any money for Apple. It's it's an idealistic part of the company.

There, they never have made any money or very little or they'll maybe they break even who knows, but it's not a profit center. It never has been. It's it's more of a of a throwback to just old Apple where they had these were they had some parts of the company that were idealistic. And I think that still exists in the podcast team. But that's not Spotify, Spotify, if they don't get if they don't get money, if they don't get, you know $100 million in profit immediately, they do not care about you.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

The I'd like to tick tock Universal Music standoff because it really is a standoff where I would say from my analysis and from what I know tick tock breaks music you know, tick tock is, is where music new music is introduced is where music goes viral. The term is it's also heated. This is a big term all the kids are using Dave. I like it well in heated heated Oh, yeah, that's like, that's the algo so they they

they crank up the algo on something by heating. Oh, it turns out, they got Yep, turn up the heat got the heat button. Yeah, yeah, that's what they called the kids called heating. Oh, they're heating those videos. How can I ever when

Unknown

you can't that's the whole point.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And so they're like, Hey, we're breaking these records for you. We don't want to pay as much in the music industry. Like you're you're screwing the artists man. Like okay.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Sure. Okay. I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

thought I did have a clip of that. Let me say that I have a clip.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I'm not sure this clip

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I have a clip. unplayed clip, a lot of popular

Unknown

music could be about to vanish from Tik Tok Universal Music Group holds the rights to artists including Taylor Swift, bad bunny, Drake and many others. It says a licensing deal with tick tock has expired, and it will no longer allow its artists music to be featured on the social media platform. Universal Music says tick tock is proposing to pay a fraction of what other social platforms pay tick tock claims the decision is being fueled by corporate greed. Music will

disappear by the end of the day if a deal is not raised. Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it's corporate greed. Go figure.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You're so greedy. Please I think it's hilarious though. Just I don't I don't ever I've never been on tick tock only tick tock things so here's what my kids and me through text messages. In the end it opens like in the browser or whatever. But But I do think it's hilarious to all of a sudden see like, some person dancing and there's no music

Adam CurryAdam Curry

but I know a lot about this from the Costello family who I've been talking to a lot ever since they came on the scene. And you know, the first question even a lawyer before lawyer will even because you know it's all lawyers right? You don't just go to a label now you got to get a lawyer your lawyer talks to their lawyer it's all lawyer stuff. The first thing he said well how are your socials? What do you have on

tick tock? You have to have X amount on tick tock, every movie every movie star even big stars is put into their into their contract you have to have tick tock you will post on tick tock. I think Tiktok has the upper hand here. I really I really do.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't know I feel the other way. I feel like I feel like the music labels have the upper hand because I don't feel that I feel like tick tock is nothing without without the music. It's nothing I mean, like their business depends on the music labels. But at least the music labels have a mute they have music I mean like that people are gonna continue to listen to music, but people will just get like tick tock is

worthless without the music. I mean, you can just see because the only other thing on tick tock that's of any that he gets any play are sketches from stolen from stand up comedy routines with a bunch of overlays put on it to try to fool the algorithm into thinking is not real. I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

see I disagree. That's your scroll hole. I mean, you get into the like that term. I pick it all from the scroll holy. I'm glad you like that. No, I mean so I see Tina and of course I have women on Tik Tok and, and what comes by for her is these videos of people who do voiceovers for the animals. Mainly with dogs. This is one guy was really good at us. You know, there's a lot of there's a lot of that there's a lot that I mean even if He likes a lot of Jesus stuff. Once you get into

the Jesus hole, whoa, that's all you get there. algos are very unifying. And they just give you all that stuff. So if you're into dance dance videos, lots of music. Yeah, you're gonna get and I'm sure it may be the majority, I don't know. But there's a lot more on tick tock. It's just whatever, whatever you whatever you start to feed, the algorithm responds pretty quickly.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You're starting to change the history and to change my mind. Sorry,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm saying it well. So let's just move beyond that for a moment. Because we are zigging to their zag. The value from the value versus the value for value music is, is getting pretty official. There's there's some licensing that's been that's, that's in a very far reaching us. What is the word I'm looking for? It's it status is very close to being to being usable, that

Dave JonesDave Jones

I need you to explain this to me, because of the collectively there's been 150,000 words of emails that have flown by me and have not read any of them.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So I've kind of I kind of threw a wrench into it all. Because there was a lot about music, music, music, music music. And I said, Why are you confusing yourself with music? Say you have an RSS feed? Yes. There's an mp3 file in in an item that is in an enclosure? Yes. Okay. How is that different from a podcast? Well, it's music. So it's, it's a podcast,

you have a podcast that has very short episodes. If once you start to put that into your brain, and and remove all of the old school licensing that we've all been accustomed to, and you talk to any lawyer, the minute you say, oh, it's musical, oh, this has to happen every day. Oh, this is how we do this? No, no. And so there's really two, there's three, three pieces. One is you need new agreements with the people who worked on a song. And you still have some old school. Traditional names for

those. So writer, composer, producer, the person who owns the master, who may or may not who might have put up the money, you know, there's there's certain things that are just there. But all of the other organizations, these black boxes that collect money on behalf of artists and take care of you, including publishing companies. There's the worldwide publishing

industrial complex is very interesting. Once you put that out of your mind, and say, there's really only two things we have to look at, that's the that's the agreement of the people who work on the podcast, I'm just gonna call it a podcast just to make it very simple. So X amount of people work on the podcast, you have splits that are developed. And in the case of this kind of podcast, one or more people may get more of the split up front, which then has to switch after certain amount

has been achieved. That's called the recoupment. That could work perfectly for a podcast, hey, I put up a two grand for the studio, I get the first two grand out.

Dave JonesDave Jones

No, okay, this is an interesting, okay, that's good. That's very, very

Adam CurryAdam Curry

understandable. Then the next part is value for value on apps, and value for value as a remote item. Now, the value for value on apps. I had I had, I mean, a lot of a lot of attitude changing that I attempted to do. I said, No one, no one is putting anything weird into the concept of putting a podcast up and say, Hey, can you just send me send me some, and then, you know, the app typically take something. And that is very transparent to the user. So in my mind, that's kind

of soft. You know, and if there's an app out there, that all sudden was taking 50% I think the community itself would say, Hey, what are you doing?

Unknown

I mean, that it would be recognized fast. Yeah, it would be recognized

Adam CurryAdam Curry

very quickly. There's also a piece that people have to recognize that it's not all the pieces will never add up to 100. There's network fees, you know, some case of routing goes differently, you lose the sad here or there. You know, we all have to just recognize and realize that it's not 100% accountable the way it is with fiat money systems. It's not a big deal. But when you're dealing with five SATs at a time, it's like hey, Where did 20% go? Because I lost a

Satoshi. So that that has to be figured out, or just has to be realized. And honestly,

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's not all that different than, then things go in the business world anyway, because you get a contract. Yeah, you sign a contract with somebody and you're like, Okay, I'm gonna start using your product, and then the invoices come through, and there's a lot, there's 26 line items with all these different little, you know, fees and

telecommunications, you know, fee or Obama phone fee. There's, there's all these things and you're like, Oh, what is all this, then you have to talk to your account rep and figure out what all this stuff is. And it's like, it's never it's never a clean is what I'm saying. Measuring This is not just, it's not just a, you know, V four v thing. And beyond

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that, there's send backs, buy backs, whatever they call them, you know, the, the music, I use, when buying with buying music, this is already kind of going out of vogue. And when buying music, or if your music is available somewhere and someone buys you know, 100 CDs, they may send back 50 Hey, I didn't buy him, you have to buy him back. There's all kinds of

stuff like that. That's, that's the same. By the way, if you use Amazon, if you sell products in Amazon, there'll be people send stuff back, you know, so there's all kinds of shenanigans, you're losing money everywhere. Yeah, now, the most important part to me, was reinventing Music Radio, by using the remote item tag, and I was very sharp, sharply focused on calling it a remote

item and not a song. Because the it technically is a remote item, it could be a clip from someone else's podcast, it can be a, an insert of an entire episode of someone else's podcast, that podcast happens to be three minute and 45 seconds long. But I'm inserting it now. That's where I think is very valid, to have an ownership license that says, hey, if you're going to

include this, in your podcast is my stuff. So you're making what I call a derivative work, like you're copying it, you're playing a piece in your podcast here is so first of all, you have to respect my splits, which is how the remote item works. And second of all, I want a minimum amount of your overall

split. I think that's very fair. And it's an it's an it's, it's an extra tag, we an extra parameter we would need in the value block, or the remote, whatever the whatever the spec is, like, if you want to use this value for value in your podcast, then you have to give me at least 50% of your split. And so

Dave JonesDave Jones

let me let me play it back to you. So I can see if I understand if I'm understanding this correctly. Some so the there would be a license this Yeah, this license would say, Hey, here's what here I'm making my main my, let's say music and making music available value for value. If you're going to use my music in your show, just

Adam CurryAdam Curry

say just say my content, don't even say music, I say content,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I'm going to make my content v v, if you're going to use my content in the show as a remote item, then I then the remote percentage needs to be at least

Adam CurryAdam Curry

a minimum, a minimum, you may give me more, you might give me more, but I need a minimum, I would set mine at 50%. And so we just played a little bit of the new media show, if that was actually available as an audio episode, which it may be, I will go back and I will put the value time split in there for the amount of time that we played that with and I would I would just give 100% of the split. I think that that license for me feels okay in the value for value model

because you're not saying I need this amount of money. We're just saying please respect my splits first of all, so that means you're using the remote item tag. And here's a minimum that I want that you could say there's no minimum you could say I have to have the 90% whatever it whatever it is. And it's all it's all ultimately based on the honor system but you know, you

could technically go back and take a look at it. But I think that for using someone's content unless you have a different license in there which would be creative commons you know, share like what you know there's all different licenses this would be a V for V license for using it as a remote item in your podcast and would work for any remote item.

Dave JonesDave Jones

For first of all, respect to Swiss is great t shirt. Seven ball. This is really good timing because A guy who's participate, there's a guy that popped up in sent an email the other day, and he works, he's working somehow, I wasn't fully clear on this, but he's working somehow with the with bell, Benjamin Bell, and even cast pod develop open source

group. And he's trying to narrow down the big list of open source licenses that we linked to in the get in the namespace to be just a basically a small subset of licenses that are applicable to podcast, content, podcast delivered content. So you know, of course, it'd be creative commons and that kind of thing. And the witch, and I told him, I was like, you know, fantastic,

this is great, please do this. Because, you know, the, the reason we, we came up with the license tag, and then we added the link to the possible values, the license of sizes tag can have, of course, can be a custom license, that's fine. But the list we linked to was just this common list of open source is a curated common source, open source list of licenses, right? But, but that's just because we're not I know, I'm not, we're developers, not legal experts. So we don't, we're not knowing

what this is. So if we can do if we, if we actually can boil this down to just a few different license types, one of which is a is a value for value licensed, that works really well for, for people who want to go into V for V. I think that is like the timing can't be better. So

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it's that part? It's, it's, and for me, it's basically like we do it already in the license tag. Is that at the channel level? Or is it also at the item level?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think that's at the channel, let's look it up, let's do it was popping in the namespace here,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

in salt, the book of knowledge pop into the namespace, it would have to be at the while you're looking that up, it would have to be at the item level. And then as part of the remote item tag, I would say we need a minimum, a field for minimum so that the author the owner can say it's either none or let's say it's by D, if it's not filled in, it's none.

There's no no, no minimum. Optional, you can put in a minimum split, that needs to be respected by the person including it, and then the tools can start just respecting that. So if I'm in the split kit, and I grab a remote item, regardless of whether it's five minutes or 50 minutes, it could automatically fill in, here's the minimum, do you want to make it more? You know, so we'd need an extra an extra option under the remote item tag.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So that so that's different. So we can't, we can't really repurpose the suggested attribute. This would need to be something new.

Unknown

Yeah. Well, you can't add something to it. No, we can.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

The suggested is suggested I don't think is different. The suggested tag is for podcast apps, and then the apps, which for some reason is five. Somehow it's five Apple code who came up with who came up with five. Now this would be specifically for the remote item. No, I didn't I don't know. Does that mean, you will probably have to have a new tag, which will be like remote item minimum or whatever.

Unknown

Does that make sense?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So this is this, this? This is why there's two of us because I got the high level you got to help me figure out where we put it.

Unknown

Yeah, okay. mumbling Off mic now.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I'm Dick. I'm noting noting over here.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Nobody's noticing. Yes. On your yellow legal pad. Yes, yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay, yeah, the the license tag is at Channel or the item level. So we're good. We're good to go with that already. No changes necessary. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. And you can have the way the license tag works as you can just bet you can specify a a lit a lesson. I'm sorry. We

Adam CurryAdam Curry

have a point of order from the boardroom. Mike Newman has a point of personal preference. He says we're deep into the namespace talk. Why no heating? Yes. You're right. And now it's time for some hot names. Good point. Good point.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Apologies. Apologies. Thank you, Mike.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes. Thank you. Apologies to the board. Yes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I know what Mike really wants is the The height and math talk No, no, no, that's off limits. He's in the box, he's not mad at him,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

he's already had one point of personal preference for this board

Dave JonesDave Jones

meeting, it's too hot. The matching gloves, too is too hot. So the license tag, you can specify by name. And it comes out of that list, which hopefully, soon we will have a narrowed down list that makes more sense. Or you can do a custom license and give a URL with a link to the license text. So this, you know, you could have somebody who takes the V for V. License, what a hammer is developed, can take the that license and say they wanted one change to it. And they can be,

you know, put their version of that. And yeah,

Unknown

yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think we're, I think we got tons of flexibility here. Yes.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And now there was a call, which I'm not very big on, because I think that automatically puts you in a whole different realm. They wanted a when I say they, as a collective, they I don't want to put this on one person. But let's just say the group has been talking about a maximum fee taken by apps. And I don't think that's a, I don't think we should go down that road.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I agree. And I'll tell you why. Because the the apps act as a sort of trying to figure out the right term for this, that the apps act as a sort of unbiased layer in the transactions. So you have the the listener who decides how

much value they're going to send. And then you have the Creator who decides how much value they decide how that gets allocated, or like, Okay, I would like during this transaction, for a minimum of this to happen here, I want these are, these are my splits, this is where the stuff goes. They're out there doing allocation of whatever the value is that comes in. But then you have the the apps are in the middle, they're just taking the transaction and sending it to

where it was specified. They're not once you start dictating to them, what this you know how much how, like actual amounts, now, they sort of lose their unbiased status. And it becomes hard for the listener to trust the app, that the listener hast in order for this for an order for value for value to work, the listener has to know that the the, the the party that's doing the payment on their behalf or the like you when I call the

payment processor or the payment delivery platform. They themselves don't have an interest either in anything. Right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And their fee is typically on top of what sent anyway. Right?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think as I do, I do not think that's a good idea at all, because then then you have the apps that are begin beginning to have they're beginning to be pushed in a certain direction by the Creator themselves. I don't think that I agree. I don't think that I think that hurts trust.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

There's one other thing that would come with this license that I'm in agreement with, it sucks, but I understand it, it has to be revocable. So you have to be able to say, Okay, if the owner of this content, for whatever reason revokes this license, I would actually have to strip that remote item out of my podcast.

Unknown

Not a happy day. No, that sucks.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

But the if a license can be revoked, and it makes no sense.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, yeah, you can't have some sense of them. That's, oh, it can't be a one way. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it has to be revocable. Now, will this happen? I'd say 99% of the time, no, I can see where there may be certain types of podcasts that could be purchased by a third party, and that third party would then assume the rights to monetize it. And then now there's all kinds of language like you have to give a certain amount of time you have to give me time codes. You have to you know, there's you can't just say strip it out everywhere. You can't do that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think I don't think that might not be that big of a deal. Because you could basically just go through and all the all the areas in your feed where the where this particular remote where

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the violation takes place.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, you just know it. You know, you just you just know that, that that out and there's no more.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

We're not just that, but you'd have to take it out of the actual derivative work out of the recording.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's, that's yeah. Yeah, I think you're I don't that's probably doesn't doesn't sound that much different than what already happens though, honestly, I mean, if somebody calls you up and says, Hey, you use this and you get into a legal exactly argument with them, you're gonna have to take it out anyway.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Exactly. So it professionalized is the remote item. And I think, if you just view it as a remote item, and we don't get bogged down into music, but it's a remote item, I think, I think that's a very, a very fair way to go. Because we can use that for everything. And it doesn't mean that everyone's going to be getting splits on everything. And most people stuff isn't interesting enough to include in another podcast,

but I'll put my zero or, you know, whatever, up to you. And then if someone wants to, like Kyron, you know, he throws 20% If if he uses a P, whatever, I mean, it's that nothing has to change as my point only for people who feel that they have something so valuable, that they want a minimum. And I'll and they want a license, and it's their stuff. So, you know, I think they have every right, you know, that I'll stay away from fair use for a moment, because Fair Use is very, very

complicated, and no one wants to litigate that. But I know a lot about it. But obviously Bookstagram ball, the remote items are included in that is not fair use, you know, I'm using someone stuff and I'm, I'm literally commercializing it,

Dave JonesDave Jones

right. So, I think you're fair use, your fair use comes into play where you have me, technically you don't have to, you would not have to do a split or a remote item for a clip. If it would fall under fair use, you would do it because you're wanting to be a nice person. Exactly. So this is like beyond music. And, and, like, I think that the thing with music and why it's so was so precious there is because

it's a full work. I mean, you're playing a full work. And you're and it's obviously there's you know, there's there's history there. But you know, with the clip, it's just like, well, you know, I'm gonna give you can, I guess you could, you know, you you wouldn't, you could go in there and say, Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to vie for V license all of my podcast episodes so that if anybody ever gets a clip, I have to get a remote item. It's not really going to work that way. I mean,

because that doesn't supersede fair use. So you got you that's not really gonna work, but but for, for music, or something like that, or an audio book or things like that. Yeah, I mean, like, you really almost do need that in place. And I can think like, you know, ask him Steve had a good, had a good point. I mean, you can't really revoke a license for something that's already been it's already an event that happened in the past. I mean, with no going back. Go Well, a podcast live podcast lives

Adam CurryAdam Curry

forever. You can podcast lives forever. So it's not like it's in the past. It's it's now every day of the week. Yeah, I mean, it's okay, unfortunately, is very similar to tic tock and Universal Music. Yeah, yes, exactly the same thing. Hey, we don't have an agreement. We have a disagreement. There's people dancing with no music. If we're if we want to make the podcast formerly known as music possible in value for value, I think we have to relent on that. I'm not

happy about it. Because it's just a pain in the butt. But it is what it is. Well,

Dave JonesDave Jones

the thing I don't know that it says much of a pain will there be niggles? Yes, but I'm not sure that this it's as much of a pain as it may sound like because if you're going into V for V, your options are you make something or you make nothing right? Well,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

this is let's just beat let's just call a spade a spade. This is when someone is V for V and then gets picked up and basically sells their stuff. Yes, right. And so it does change of ownership. And there's money involved and I would be very happy for people Oh, that's I'm so happy for you see on the next project, see you when you get dropped

Unknown

enough I a year from now, I actually

Adam CurryAdam Curry

think that very few artists who are having success in V for V i I don't know if many would take the big mainstream contract if it was about music. I really don't think so. I mean, in a way Rogan did this Rogan sold his entire catalogue to Spotify. He negotiated 100 episodes he could keep

Unknown

public Publix. Okay, I know that because he was very open about that.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And all the rest had to be gone. And so because they bought his entire catalogue, it was really a licensing deal. And so all of his stuff left podcasting, except for 100 episodes, which I think he only kept on YouTube, maybe I don't know what he did with them. But he kept 100. It was a included podcast, he didn't want any out there anymore. He want he wanted them gone, because he didn't like the guest or something like

that. So it's very, it's very simple. It will happen. But it won't happen very often.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I agree. I agree. And that, you know, if Marina ask, gets, you know, she, I don't know her situation. But if she was, she's now the full owner of all her stuff. And she sells it and gets picked up by a label and wants to pull that off V for V. She's, she's got the right to do that. Yeah, she's got the right to do that now, without a license. I mean, she could she could she could do this right? And and just take it right off exactly. But then send you a message and say, Hey, can

you take this out of your show? And you'd have to Yeah, this

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is just a way to solidify that. And I think if we put the minimum, the minimum split value in into the spec somewhere. And and the license tag is already, you know, it can already we can add that it's easy, because the tag already exists is just the new license that comes out. And I think we should, it should be like the V for V license or something. So if someone puts in a derivative of the V four v license with some different parameters, that has to be apparent.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But I still like it. Yeah, yeah. See? Yeah, but I think I think, like a GPL or whatever, exactly.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I think I think this will kind of flesh out. I'm not too worried. I don't also we don't have to get all messed up about it. Because this, this will work out. We I mean, we really, believe me, the not a single person that said, Boy, this really sucks. I get no Satoshis everyone is positive. Everyone's positive because they haven't gotten any they've been so screwed. This is like, just everything has been positive about this. Now, along with that. I'm very proud of Julian

Jim Costello, who have launched phantom power music.io. They have, you should take a look at this website. They have launched a company to onboard artists into value for value.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Ooh, this is pretty so nice website. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And they're doing education. And you know, they're, I think they've partnered with RSS blue.com for hosting. And I mean, they've really, I think they've really done a very thought a long and they've been thinking about they have all the experience honestly. They know it they understand they understand how all this stuff works. Look. Oh, look, I didn't notice that they have all look at all the apps. They have all the apps there. Receive boost today. Grab an app

you can zap No. Okay, well, if you have to put this app in there and I understand I understand the rhyming but okay. Oh, look, they got the music shows down there as well. So they're really promoting the whole thing. And it was it was kind of cute. They're like, Please don't hate us for because they asked $10 a month. This is please don't hate us for for asking for Fiat. So you get inside off by people. It's okay.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, it's okay. big of a deal. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I think they do is $10 a month they set you up, they help you they give you all the education. It's probably more in a group setting. I think they're gonna do like big deal calls and stuff. And then 5% of your SATs. 5% split. As you say fair, yeah. And they help you manage everything. I mean, I'm happy because now I can say to artists go instead of me explaining go here. Go talk to these people. They

Dave JonesDave Jones

have Marina Oscar is one of their or they do one of their

Adam CurryAdam Curry

orders. Do you have their art get it out? They have Abby Mendler here Ainsley Costello Amber Sweeney. Jack and Mr. Mr. JESSICA Well, I like these I like these. I want to trust it. I happen to pick the trusted for our song today.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, it gets the you know what wait. Wave Lake has really stepped they stepped up to I mean, they have they have they've got two new podcasts that are that they're doing now mixtape and wave or in there? They interviewed your buddy. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Cody what? That was great. I was like, Oh, this is an I didn't know that. FM radio was FM radio. But that was Michael.

Unknown

That's his band Finn radio. Oh, no, no,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

not FM radio, was it? No, no, the pirate radio that's on pirate radio.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, they they've done a lot. And I want to make sure because people in podcasting took one over, given them heat before and we have to, but they stepped up, they fixed they have really changed their feeds their auto billing. I think right now the auto says, Oh, he had their auto submitting. They're doing value time splits. They've got their feeds have channel level value blocks now. Like they're they've

they've fully adapted to the for the podcasting based music. And I mean, like they deserve all the credit in the world for chain for making. Absolutely, absolutely.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

We needed we needed. We needed them to do that we needed. We needed him to do that. We really did. And I love it. And I'm I'm sure they still have a focus on noster somewhere. But when I listen to their shows, it's getting there. It really is. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's beautiful. I think they deserve they deserve some credit. They deserve the kudos. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Unknown

So that's happening. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

This I want to talk a little bit about what Mitch posted? Yes. With, you know, just burnout. Because he did

Adam CurryAdam Curry

he actually use the burnout term? Because I mean, I read it as burnout. I'm like, I you and I texted I don't even know what to say. I mean, I feel horrible about this. I mean, what can I do? You know, I can send him money. But that's not gonna that's not a salary. You know, what do we do? What how? I mean, this is hard. This is hard stuff.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think. So. Let me just see if I can pull this post up real quick, make sure we accurately represent what he said, because I think he did say that he was burned out. See, so I've been off the grid. So long folks have been busy with combination and making money. So I don't have to get back to the day job to be frank pa versus pretty overwhelming to keep up with keeps more and it gets more overwhelming with each day, I'll let things fall behind. I've been working on pod verse for 10

years now. And absolutely love. He said, I didn't even know how to code when I started. And absolutely love what we've accomplished. But I've always had hoped we would have would have a thriving open source community by now. I don't know what course of action can convert pod verse from being this 10 hour a day labor of love for me into a reasonably managed business with adequate resources. The truth is, as pod verse has grown more popular, is become more difficult to keep up

with. We have many generous supporters, but the money we make is far from being able to pay someone a full time salary. And then he says they don't want to accept VC money focusing on getting caught up now. So, you know, anytime he talks about unless there were an increase in steady open source contributors, I can't see I can keep up with the rate of progress and responsiveness. People are used to for sure. Yeah. So I just want to talk a little bit about that. Because, I mean, I've been

involved in open source projects. So that's happened. So I can hear that. I'm

Adam CurryAdam Curry

sorry. I didn't mean to do that to you.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It sounds like I thought that was you. It was

Adam CurryAdam Curry

me. It was me. W no idea why that why that worked that way. Okay. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But I've been involved in PUC in open source projects for more than a decade. And this one's going on three years. And I've had times when Absolutely. The I'm just gonna use the term burnout. I don't think it's fair. I think it's just a general term. I don't think it's unfair to Mitch Yeah. To say burnout because we all we all we all get there. And, you know, Martin Martin from pot France, he felt he didn't get

burned out, as well. And so, you know, I would I would want to say a couple of things here is managing an open source project is primarily not about the the technology, tap it, it's about relationships. It's about managing relationships. There's this quote from Charlotte Mason. She's, like our kids go to a Charlotte Mason school. She was an educator from the 1800s. But she has this, this phrase that she says education is the

science of relationships. I think that's what open source open source is all about the science of managing relationships. Right? And so you like you? I kind of I kind of you get bogged down my I never feel burned out. And I think part of the reason is because I've learned to adapt to basically like an it's, it's just it's fine mentality. It's fine, it's fine. It's like that little guy with the with the with the comic with holding the coffee and everything's on fire, you know, it's fine.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Burn, everyone's burning up. All right, in

Dave JonesDave Jones

there's a few different there's a in it all comes down to relationships. So you could put you could you could look at it like this if you want to like say like some I don't know, rules are sort of like essence concepts. It's fine. Not to respond to people. That's sort of like, the first thing in this in it when it comes to managing open source is, you know, you had to pick one like, basically pick one public communication channel. These are just the things that

I've done. Pick one public communication channel, pick one private communication channel for most people, that's email. And just stick with that. Don't get sucked into 15 different communication channels with where your own telegram matrix GitHub, Mastodon email, text message signal team, Slack, and it will, it will drive you insane. You can't you'll never rest. It's awful. This is like, this is like the Marco Arment strategy. Just ignore people.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Pretty successful with that strategy? Right?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. And I mean, he would be honest with you and say, yeah, it, you He, He will not answer your emails 99% of the time. But it's for is because if you get sucked into that, and you let yourself become burdened by the responsibility of responding to everybody, yeah, you will burn yourself out your your your fuse will go out fast.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

By the way, this goes even for podcasters. Sure, I mean, it's the same thing. I can't respond to everybody. I certainly can't, I wind up, wind up doing my email, I wind up praying for a lot of people, no response, but I prayed for you. It's really nothing else you can do sometimes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I silenced almost all of my GitHub repo notifications, I don't get notifications from the namespace anymore. People post things there and I don't even know. And, and I go in when when I choose to engage with namespace, I go and I check out what's there. Notification fatigue will kill you. Yeah. It will literally stress you out. If somebody posts something on a repository and it takes you like a month before you even see it. Guess what? As far as what it

is, it's fine. Nobody died. Nobody got sick. It's fine. You know, people will eventually learn your communication cadence. Amen? And what to expect from communicating with you. It's like, I don't you know, Dave Winer used to be you know, he's he wrote this long thing about if you're going to work with me, here's what you need to know about. The way I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

work. I remember Yes. Oh, yes, I remember these very well.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's like, No, I've got three modes. I've got um, heads down working mode, I've got I'm communicating mode, and I forget all the details. Yeah. But like he published his like, cadence of how he, how you could expect to work with him. I don't think you have to do that. I don't think you have to publish that. I think people just learn that people learn that, oh, after they communicate with you a few times, they learned that sometimes you're just not going to respond for perhaps a month.

And they just know that you're there and you will eventually you get back to them and they know that that everything's fine. Right? And so it's it's not it's not something you have to get super detailed about. But it's all you know, I guess the second part is it's also fine. In this is big and open source too. It's also fine if people are not nice to you. Because people are gonna are going to be not nice to you. This is true with all open source. People say terrible things. People get

selfish. It's going to happen. And you have to know upfront you have to cultivate thick skin. People are gonna say mean stuff.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I can't it's almost like being a podcaster people will say the most horrible things.

Unknown

You don't know what you're doing the D You should have said why didn't you do that? How can I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

camp Oh, my head. I can't believe you missed that. And I see it with with apps like this sucks this apps no good. Get you know, what is my favorite? Like, this is a basic functionality.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Why didn't knew dot dot dot? You know that anything that starts with I can't believe.dot.or What Why did you Why didn't you do it this way dot dot dot? Yeah, very typical. People are gonna leave you one star reviews. Yep. It's gonna happen, you know, people are gonna, they're going to, you know, smear essentially smear your product. They're gonna criticize almost every decision that you make, at some point. They're gonna send you hate mail. We've gotten tons of hate

mail, about everything about the show about the project. Ever every time you know, every, every time you allow yourself to get angry. You turn your burnout meter up another notch. Yeah. If somebody's a jerk, lock the issue, or close it, if they keep being a jerk, block them or mute them, and then go eat some ice cream and have a good day. And that's, it's really all about that. So this is this is fresh in my mind, because somebody said something recently to me, and it gets in a GitHub issue.

Saying that they didn't want they did not want to listen to the show, in order to keep up with the project. And that I should be that I should be publishing minutes of this of the board meeting each week. Oh, well, why you don't want to listen to the show? Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

oh, I see. Well, we have a transcript. Right.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And, you know, my, my response to that was, stop telling me what I'm supposed to do with my time.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, reclaiming Reclaiming my time.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I'm not playing I'm not playing this game. This is not a year, this is no longer a feature request. This is now a demand. And I reject your demands go away. Yeah. And so this, this is this is how you deal with that sort of stuff. And the, I guess the hardest part is the last part is is if the servers go down, it's still fine. It's okay. stuff does go down. It's gonna happen. And it's really It's okay. When somebody tells you, the servers are down, and you feel that that

panic in your stomach, go go get a cup of coffee. Take a 10 minute walk before you ever open up an SSH terminal. Just go chill out. It's fine. Life will go on. Everybody's okay. Yeah, everybody's servers go down. Sometimes. It's not a reflection on you. If people get mad about it or mean about it, and that, you know, it's not it's not a big deal. It's all fine. I mean, server team, Microsoft Teams was down for 10 hours the other day globally.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, God. I can only imagine the calls that came in that that support team. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

people were freaking out and losing their mind. But you know what, it's fine. There's today they didn't lose a bet you they did not lose a single customer. In his in his okay. And this is an open source project. Remember, the more users you have the more demands at our own placed on your system. So if you lose some customers, it's actually better for you. You're in a better position than the worst. It's a plus. Yeah, it's a plus a bonus. Win. Okay, I got one. Okay.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

What can I say? Can I say one thing? Hold on. There's also with open source projects. We just had this ourselves recently. For three years, we have been told you got to have a marketing website. You got to do this. You got to do that. And we're like, No, hey, Phoebe. Yeah. So you can write the marketing website BB. And finally, it dawned on Daniel J and I think he's teamed up with with James Cridland well Oh, we'll do the marketing site but she thank you yeah, it's like so

weird. This is an open source project every single bit of it as like yes, yes, yes. Yes, please do I want 10 of them in different languages.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That fits perfectly with what I was about to say I thought I was done but I actually have one more point and this is this is this exact point. When people to ask you when people ask you to do something. You asked them to do

it instead? Yeah. Why don't you do it? Yeah, like a her longtime I heard a long time ago heard a sermon by this pastor and he was saying, He said, Every time somebody said, when I first got here to this church, people would come up and say, Hey, Pastor, I really think we need a ministry that does so and so and so and so who reaching out to these, this people group or whatever, right? And he said, that sounds like a great idea.

Let me know when it's up and running. And he said, this funny thing is, like, most of the time, it just never, you know, they never did it. And that's, that's the thing is like when somebody says, Hey, can you add this feature to your product? That most of the time the answer should be? Here's the link to the GitHub repo. That sounds like a great idea. Yeah. When you when you get it done, send me the pull request, and I'll

review it and merge it. That sounds great. Exactly. And 99% of the time, they won't do it. But the 1% of the time, they actually do it. You get somebody like an Alex gates, like an Eric PP. You know, like a CSB like a Stephen crater, like a Nathan Gath. Right. I mean, the let you get people that step up like Daniel J. Lewis, you get people who step up and do and do awesome stuff. In nine dead, the other 99 people that didn't want to do this stuff, but never participated. You don't have to

let those people bother you. Right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So on the heels of this, I immediately have to ask everybody to straighten out their to V records right away. I need you to put the right information in please.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, is this a is this a? Is this a huge problem we're dealing with?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, it is kind of a big problem. Okay, customer Matic sometimes doesn't send the name of the podcast or the name of the song or it only sends the name of the song. It's a remote item stuff. It's remote item stuff. I would I would respectfully request if if you happen to be rooting around UTL V records code. Could you send along podcast name, Episode name, if there's a remote item remote item name. That would be really, really awesome. You can you can even do just do the

GUID. You can do the good What are you laughing about? TLB is not hot. Yeah. You can even do the GUID because how the pad will resolve that. And if and if you have extra time just happened to be rooting around. The reply is really fun. But I can only reply to people using cast thematic and curio caster is really fun. My listeners love it. They really love it. When I send them when I pay. You know what happens? They'll send me a

boost back. It's crazy. Now I've got email where they're paying me is great.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Now not every pap is jumping in with TVs are a mess. Everybody that starts getting into the to Wii game, and they're always like, Oh, this is a shutter down your spine. But it works. It somehow works. Well. He has

Adam CurryAdam Curry

a link which I'll put in the show notes, which I guess is that? Oh, yeah. Okay. So yeah, this is a this is a good Blip 10 to V record breakdown that Spurlock did this is very this is very good people. This is very good. I'll put that in there. So we can all take a look at it. apps to the breakdown. That's good. I mean, it I mean, just when you have a moment, just have a moment to take look at it. Really appreciate that. Because from

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I just don't want people to burn out. And, and Mitch has been doing this for a long time to you know, 10 years on pod verse. That's a long time and I don't you know, I don't blame him. He, you know, he's, he's got other things to think about in his life, but and he's, it's not like pod versus shutting down there. They're just gonna slow down, they don't have the bandwidth anymore to add features and stuff. Which is, you know, which is fine, and I want to get him back on the

show, it'd be a good thing to talk it over with him. But it's just, you know, I just, you know, it I just don't want people to burn out. And if you if you pace yourself and you don't let people of open source will wreck you if you let

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it Yes, it will suck your soul. It

Dave JonesDave Jones

will. But you there are ways where you basically don't have to let it do that.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And if I may compliment you on how wonderfully you have managed this orchestra of nutjobs because that's what we have. We have no we have an orchestra and there's people with a you know with a ukulele and the guy playing spoons and someone else has a washboard and there's a guy who has a huge drum kit and and you this is why you're the pod sage you have a very beautiful demeanor about managing that you respond in just always the right way. If it

were me, this would have blown up within three months. Yes, although I have I have gotten better in If there's things that have happened to me in the past three years that have made me better, but you have you really you have been managing. You have been managing this group, mainly, I'd say, the the GitHub and just the how things are, are put in, I just nothing but props for you, brother, nothing but props for you.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Thanks. It's, it's if you let it, if you let it own you, it will, it will, you will get out, you will burn out fast. And if you if you keep it as if you, if you keep it as fun, keep it as a as a thing that's that's that you do that brings you enjoyment, and not as trying to make it exactly. If you see it as your job and you think everything depends on that project. You're not going to last it's gonna go so fast.

Yeah, especially when you start getting some users. That's when things actually are not prepared for that, then the more users you have, the more it will hurt. I've always

Adam CurryAdam Curry

said, you know, every I've had many companies and always said we would have a great company if we just didn't have any customers.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So true. Everybody. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard somebody say, yeah, man, you know, I bet you bet you'd be great if you had so and so as a customer using the API. And I'm like, no,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

no, no. But that's the same with podcasting. The minute you get a whole bunch of people listening, everyone has an opinion. Nobody knows how easy you make it look. Now, it's like, Hey, you just you just talking to a microphone for three hours twice a week? What is it, just give me a break. Now, it's really the same with any anything with other people. It's pure people, understanding of people and how people are it's just that's what it is.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You know, podcasts are that's it's funny. Podcasts are open source. You know, Alex said something the other day that seemed like fun that he was saying. I think it was a little bit of a just a passing comment that he threw in. But it made me think about the similarities between open source and and podcasting. Because podcasts are sort of like the best ones anyway. The ones like you do, or they're they are open source projects in and of themselves. That yeah, he's, it's, I think

he said something about the value for value. I can't remember his comment. But the value I think value for value maybe only works fully. When when the cut when the when the listener or the consumer, whatever you want to call them depend on what is when the consumer helps build the product.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes, yes. You know, when you're involved in it's a two way street. It's my listeners are called producers for this very reason. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You're involved you have you have a stake, you're a stakeholder in the product. This is not like radio,

this is where I think radio really is very different. It has other advantages, like locality, and you know, immediacy, but the feedback loop, which is exactly how it where value for value fits in, you have a feedback loop, you have to ask you have to thank you know, you have to reply basically all of that as a part of it, whether you're whether you're doing value for value for you know, for monetary reasons or not, it always works better if it's, if it's a round robin, it just that's how you

can make it work for yourself. Rogan doesn't have to do that. He's a different type of show. But for every other podcast I've been involved in, it's it's incredibly important. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

this this matches up because yeah, Foundation says I firmly believe the attention based economy began begin with one way media where participants lost the ability to openly and freely conduct discourse with relevant communities. It's like the one way media thing because when your open source project becomes one way, when it's all about what you can give, right? It doesn't work anymore. It's not a value for it's not value for value. It's not a value exchange. Now it's just I need

something Give it to me. Now. Yeah, exactly. But when with this, the puck has to promote projects is IT project is always value for value. And you have, you know, in that includes apple coming in last week, they they built they built a feature and then they asked for help. We put it on the GitHub, people responded. It's akin, it is a give and take, yeah, you know, your cause we give, they take they give we take it's

constantly back and forth. I just think that The overlap between value for value podcasting and open source projects is probably a lot bigger than we think it is. I agree. They just look different on the outside, you know.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I just jotted something down about value for value. I just want people know that a big part of how it works for me. We're in podcasting, then. But it could also work for apps I don't know is we do a newsletter before every single podcast except for this one funny enough. And that newsletter is an ask. It's an asked to remember to listen, remember to support us. And it's responsible for 40% of the value we receive. Just want people to realize that doesn't it's yes,

you have to ask for it in your podcast. That's typically where we thank people in the podcast. But to ask is, it's not

necessarily just in the podcast. I just wrote that down or something I want to remind everybody of and to hosting companies provide email capabilities, email lists, I mean, all this AI talk like with respect, it's great that your AI can translate you know, your podcast into German with a German voice notice you never get a German to English podcast because we all know that if we heard it, we'd be like, this sucks.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It probably sucks just as much. Yes. Yes,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

exactly. But you know, so how about where are the AI discovery tools we now have transcripts for every podcast Why can't I say hey AI go find me apart? Why is it only for the creation side I know this makes no sense to me input a few parameters get me Get me something that'll be interest me based upon the transcripts

Unknown

Yeah, yeah kind of stuff. Wow the point Yeah, should we play song

Dave JonesDave Jones

I would love to hear so yeah. Okay, so

Adam CurryAdam Curry

this is this is the trusted that we were just talking about which apparently is part of phantom power music.io is called Millennium it's a snappy tune from some good luck in young men tech good guys

Unknown

give coming around a one no one's cry just cry with Jesus one day right guys all right never want to see you tonight All right. So we're not enough

Adam CurryAdam Curry

To the trusted Millennium podcasting 2.0 They are from sam se hometown in the UK. Oh really? Yes. So they must be rich. Just just just in case they aren't pleased. Rewind if you didn't and boosts them boost those boys boost them make them more rich. Yeah. I'm pretty sure they're not rich.

Unknown

That's a good tune in that cool though. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that's kind of like, old. What is it reminding of? In excess the

Unknown

little bit? I don't know. This is cool. I like it. It's

Dave JonesDave Jones

got the you can hear the egg shaker. Exactly.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I looked at the nostril wallet Connect. Yeah.

Unknown

I don't get it.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

They put, it seems like there's just a third. Is it? Is it just me or is it just another API to to like a service in the middle? Am I missing something?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I mean, no, I don't think I don't think you're missing anything. It's like me it just connects so that you can connect to your own node to

Unknown

Okay, yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

it's it's not No, it's not even worth it.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's not worth it long leave Keisha and we love our key. Send a few sand rocks. Yes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So lightning on the lightning front with l&d. 18 My understanding is this is when they start which they're working on now. This is when they start building in bolt. 12 Oh, really now? Yeah, bolt. Well, they're gonna do it in stages, I believe is my understanding. Based on on the we

Adam CurryAdam Curry

always we always thought we'd live to see the day that bolt 2012 came to light.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I think taproot through them much more curveball. I'm talking about lightning labs and l&d. I think taproot through them a lot of curveballs. So when they went to tapri channels, what I understand and also what threw them curveballs is the fees from the mempool got so high that these that the Yeah, dozen or so bugs that were causing force close force closing of channels are

Adam CurryAdam Curry

making everybody more everyone was becoming poor.

Dave JonesDave Jones

They had to stop and say, Okay, let's let's go back and actually fix this. So like a lot of the stuff that's been going on the last really three months on the lightning on the l&d developer mailing list has been all about. That has been all about trying to solve these force close issues, and a lot of it has got to do with just things getting channel. Things internal to Elling to l&d Getting out of sync. Yeah. And then l&d gets into a state where it it's basically it's afraid of

doing something wrong. And so it just forced closes the channel, right, and thinking, Okay, well, we need to get this back in order. And they've, they've really fixed a lot of that stuff. To my understanding, there's still a few things that can cause it to happen. But most of the egregious ones I think, have been fixed. So I think in in my understanding is in 18, we're gonna they're gonna start on Bolt 12 If we can ever get to

a stable Bolt 12 implementation. Honestly, life life changes to be better life changes, it really will hate you because then you have open invoices, and you don't have to worry. The key sin was a hack from the beginning. It's a beautiful hack, but it is high. Yeah, just

Adam CurryAdam Curry

open invoice it just here's one invoice reuse as often as you want for whatever you want. Yeah, which seems so logical. Yeah. Like, why would you restrict the amount of money you can receive? please do send me money.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, the, the invoice thing is, is the invoice thing always it never made a whole lot of sense. Because it just means I can't make I can't send you money into you. Like I can go to the bank and deposit money in your account. Yeah, yeah. They'll let me do that all day. I don't have to have your permission.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

You can send a Venmo to somebody just having their address. Boom, it's done. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

and nothing else works where I have to allow you to give me money for now.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, that's one of the big confusing parts for people. Quite honestly, when they're like, wait, I have to fill up my wallet. I have to create an invoice and then I have to copy that invoice and then pay this weird.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So there's this funny this is funny story about my uncle. He's passed away now. He's just he was Is this clever guy? And he's like country clever, you know, like, he lives up, lived up North Alabama and middle of nowhere. So he a sold this guy, something I forgot what it was is like a car or something. They got paid him, paid him for it. Maybe it's gone or something sold in, he paid him for a game, he wrote a

check. So he goes to the gas bank to cash this check. And they say the tellers like I'm sorry, he doesn't have enough funds. We can't get in his account. We can't cash the check. So those checks, like minimum 100 bucks or something. Yeah. And he said, Well, how much does he have in his account? She's like, Well, I'm sorry, I guess private? I can't tell you that much. I can't tell you that information. So can I put money in his account? And he was like, he was like, Well, let

me put $10 in there. So he put $10 in there. And she was like, she's like, No, and he's like, so he kept putting five and five bucks in there until the end. They just got it all out. That's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

funny. Yeah. That's I wonder if you clever. Yeah. I wonder if because the country clever US and other guests. Another good show titled Dave Jones. I like that one. Country clever. That's a good one. Brother, should we thank some people.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, let's do it. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

let me let me see we we got a couple of live booths. Not much. Let me see. We got Oh, let's see. 1234 From November for Victor X ray. Who says thank you for your coding. Oh, that's a new one. Thank you feel you're welcome. Short Row of ducks. Martin Linda's code. He's back. Haven't heard from him from a while. two to two. I have a podcast called pen meets paper in Swedish and English but I want to check remarkable gadget. Yes. Oh, listen to this podcast now that I've already bought

one. Hopefully I bought the right thing. Joe Martin Hello, Joe Martin. He's listening in from Rainy England finally free on a Friday night. 2100 SATs Thank you, brother. No gig. No gig on a Friday night. Joe Martin. You know the I think the premiere the first wallet switch we we performed on this show was Joe Martin show. Joe Martin

Unknown

saw high gravity. That's right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

There's Martin Linden. koge Linda's cog again 1111 row of sticks. I wanted to top of my wallet but found out that Alby is doing maintenance regarding the credit card option. I'm sorry to hear that. Salty Crayon 2222. How do you board room sorry for the email Adam didn't realize it was time for hot namespace day go podcasting. He was emailing me when I'm trying to help them out. I had I did my podcast with Jimmy V.

Unknown

About the loss of compressions all this Yes. You

Adam CurryAdam Curry

know, it turned out really good. It was it was you know, we didn't really resolve much. But it was it was a fun conversation. We both had our product this guy is a real force to be reckoned with. And he really is very excited about value for value and he wants to onboard a whole bunch of his by his onboarding a whole bunch of his buddies and it was actually turned out to be a really nice conversation. We got a lot of fun

Dave JonesDave Jones

did it go like this? You're wrecking my music and you're like no I'm not Yeah, that would be

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the short version. Okay. I think he was surprised that I showed up and he was like I can't believe so what do you mean that we had an agreement this is a time here I am via so anyway he's a good guy he's he's gonna be very important in in the in the value verse and I have been trying to trying to work on make it the problem is his songs sound different than someone else's songs you know his volume mastering a different

someone else. It's all very different. So there's somewhere you have to have a kind of a middle of so that it all sounds good enough. That's just that's just the way it is. So I think we had a good understanding.

Unknown

So his last name is v. So yes, V.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

What more do you need 45,678 from Dred Scott pre show boost boost he says boost Thank you. Thank you and let me see. Yeah, so this is see this is an example this is fountain Oh, no, I'm sorry. It looks like I was put into a Jimmy V put me in his value block. I'll put us in the value block. There you go. Oh, that was from the interview. Oh, cool. I'll read this then. 1000 SATs from salty crayon to outside in with Jimmy V episode to appreciate the feedback. Adam and Jimmy are

still tweaking this this consulta crayon. His levels, shot to crayons, great heat. plays everything uncompressed yeah that's not the kind of show I want to make I have a little more high energy and so he asked for some feedback so I'm helping him with that Cameron also 3333 Thanks Adam for being on the show extra sets for mentioning he likes I love all the Canadian rockers I'm telling you the all these guys are coming in the coming into the remember helix

Dave JonesDave Jones

helix No Give me they were like

Adam CurryAdam Curry

like helix was heavy man helix I think I played him on on headbangers ball may say why is why is this? Is this what is going on here to tube? We're both going Yeah, I can't get to you. Oh I see what's going on.

Unknown

You find us there let me see you too. Oh

Dave JonesDave Jones

Hair Metal

Unknown

yeah massive massive Hair Metal.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, rock you those that

Adam CurryAdam Curry

might have had minor sounds like the one that I would have played. Let me see What song did you play on headbangers ball? That was probably RockYou Yes indeed. Here it is. What is this heavy metal love? What was that? I see how old is this? BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP that bad bad guy bad guy bad. I think that from Scandinavia to

Unknown

Yeah baby 93 Nice farm finance

Adam CurryAdam Curry

and I heard one more boost come in. We'll just check that real quick. Hard Hat says like boosting Why 12,345 Thank you hard fat. DAVE What you got on the on the papers in the booster grams.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, I got a nice Pay Pal from the boys and girls Ed blueberry down. Hello Bluebird. And they sent us $300 Oh, let

Unknown

me get shot Carlo blades on am Paula key brothers.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Very nice. Let's

Dave JonesDave Jones

go in their messages go podcasting from the blueberry podcasting team.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Go buy gasoline. Just got 33,333 from Darren Oh, he says can never use too much compression to get the voice scope podcasting. Darren knows it's there. Yes, it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That would be a comment from him. Yes. Thank you, blueberry. Appreciate that. Thank you so much. Let's see we got Oh, we got $55 from Jorge Hernandez. Oh, it's thanks for creating the opportunity to enhance our show. I sent a private note via email. Not sure if they're being filtered out. Nope. We got it. I got your note.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes. Thank you very much. Very nice note, Jorge and Savannah. I think that is from both of them.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, they're the plug to pleb I think is the Oh,

Unknown

okay. But we appreciate. We appreciate that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Thank you, Jorge. Guess Mr. Graham's see. We got see salty crayon. Sin is 2222. This is how the boardroom from the northeast corner of Texas Hill Country. The Fountain split percentages are out of whack. I don't think we

Adam CurryAdam Curry

read that one on the last show. I think on the read on election really? Yeah, I think so. Think that came in like oh, did

Dave JonesDave Jones

that come in after? Yeah. Yeah. Let me see if I can get to the right. Point. Do we read the I think we read the big boost for the big Liberty boost from blueberry. Yeah, we had. We did this was last weekend night boardroom. It was a weekend we did

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Saturday. Yeah. Yeah, we did Saturday. So yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. I should have reminded you. It wasn't a boardroom app was boardroom not after dark was boardroom. On the weekend. In

Unknown

winboard. boardroom in jeans. Yep. casual clothing. Yes, that's right. casual, casual

Dave JonesDave Jones

Saturdays. Right?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That's right.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay, here we go. January 28. This is this this? This is what is an aggregator app. And where the this is from source D over pods is Archie 1701 SATs. He said what's that? What is it he's talking about? He's talking about Rob's from Lipsense comments. What is an aggregator app? And where? And where are the stats taken after Apple cut the automatic downloads? The questions don't know the answer to either one of

those sources. They also again with a 1701 Star Trek boost. He says I thought Google Chrome was the default on Android and Android had a large market share of computing. That's true. But go look at the just go look at the charts. Archie. Chrome dominates. I mean, it's not just Android. It's desktop. It's it's I mean, like the numbers are not even funny. Just just brave

Adam CurryAdam Curry

sharp is cross a chrome derivative or does it show up as brave?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think it shows up as brave because they Yeah, yeah, it's not it's not detecting the engine. Nothing is detecting the actual browser. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I like brave Brave is my browser man. I like it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And he says, What about Chrome OS? Yeah, I mean, it's saying Same deal I just don't if you go look at the actual numbers it's not it's not just those pre installs it's it's legit download market share memorias podcast Kyron 1234 through fountain he says appreciate your focus on the individual Adam 1% of the total now plus 40% downloads doesn't matter on one single bid to me. appreciate all your hard work. Alex in a tube is where I have been directing people who want

to start a video podcast and appreciate you Dave. Thanks. Thanks, Gary. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I mean that's I'll just keep hammering that until the cows come home that it's not about it's not about the aggregate didn't no longer necessary to be number one or top of the list or have the most downloads you just need people to support you that's that's really that's the new world that we live in. That's exactly what the value verse musicians are finding out. I don't need to be number one I don't need to be featured by Spotify. I just need my my people to show up and support me That's it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Sir Brian of London 21 948 through cast ematic he says I had to open pod verse search for pod paying than wind back to 34 minutes to boost this mentioned in cast thematic go apple waiting to hear apples. See waiting to hear apples Apple pay via PayPal come in. Sure. Thanks, Brian. Appreciate you. Oh, another follow up 1948 Boost sir Brown of London. He says Sir Alec saved my butt with professional level Python for hive pod thing writer. Alex Alex save is saving people's butts is

basically his job title. Yes, no kidding during the day job.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, you know what? I probably good old Alex. He's probably still in the split for the live show. Let me say he must be he must be loving that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

He's watching that watching this as hey,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm doing great here today. This is

Dave JonesDave Jones

Rene Nagy I know it's hot butcher this guy.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I love how you say that everyone loves how you say that? Pod verse

Dave JonesDave Jones

says compression boost. Nice. Thank you, Renee. Bear, snare Sinha, satchel Richards. The podcast guru says you guys are doing the Lord's work. Thank you

Unknown

for trying. Yes,

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's a call a person. Dude, person sent a 4096 That's a 4k kill a boost through breeze killer boost. Dave in activity pub, the identity is controlled by the server owner in nostre. The identity is controlled by the client. Okay, he says noster doesn't rely on any one relay to maintain its decentralization, I can migrate to any relay with my identity intact.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Okay, did you see any of the the session the session? The Congress says shops with with the social media companies and did not Oh my god. It was I actually felt bad for people like Zuckerberg, you know, they had the whole room stacked with people whose children had committed suicide, or bought a meal online that had fentanyl and died from it that had been sexually abused. And literally like you have blood on

your hands, turn around apologize to these people. And you know, they were all stacked, they had pictures and they're holding it up pictures of the dead children. It was the most disgusting display have ever seen. Meanwhile, by the way, we just funding all kinds of actual killing in sandy areas of the world. But okay, let's let's focus on Facebook and Instagram. But as I'm watching that I'm confused. It was all about

section 230. That's basically what it was, of course, and I'm concluding there's only two ways this can finally wind up now it is an election year. So they're doing this to pressure them. Everyone wants a backdoor everyone wants an influence, hey, do keep my account or whatever heat my post. I can tell you the end goal is or the end result will be if it's not now it'll be in five years or 10 years, platforms are going to go

away. It won't be worth it anymore. Because either there'll be so restrictive that I mean because they basically want these people you know these platforms to be liable the saying it's your fault That's your fault is your fault was not because it's under Section 230 I'm protected. I think that's going to go away eventually. And I gotta be honest with you, I wouldn't cry for a second. I want to go back to RSS feeds. You know, that's what it's go back to RSS feeds, your is your

feed, you're liable for your feed. You know the index can still have an index of feeds, you know, we're not hosting content. Why wouldn't we need an index of feeds for blogs? This, it's a mess. The only other way you can do it is everybody has to have a government ID that is known that is approved. It's digital. There's verification. And that's not an American thing yet. But I just see the writing on the wall, you can put it down now. You can write it down, this platform stuff is going to go

away. It's killing it is. I mean, it's not it's not killing people, but it's not healthy.

Unknown

It's just not healthy. I

Dave JonesDave Jones

totally agree. And the world will be a better place for it.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I think so I think so too. And I you know, it's like, you know, and it may be even, I think even Apple will start, you know, Spotify, they'll start to have second thoughts. It's like, Oh, I'm getting blamed for this. I'm getting blamed for that. Hey,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I've said it before the internet was a mistake.

Unknown

It was Yeah, it wasn't. Yeah, probably. It

Dave JonesDave Jones

was. We've been watching we've been as a family at night. We've been watching musicals.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, we've been watching Little House on the Prairie man. Okay. Have you been watching it? I'm an honorary member of the Little House on the Prairie community. Now somehow I got into that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

In one day. I'll go ahead. One day I'll tell you about. There's an epic, there's a single episode of Little House on the Prairie. That taught me what being a man really is more than any other thing. Anybody in my life was anything else. It was the bay. It was like, the greatest example of what true manhood looks like being a grown up, man. Wow.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, I just want to say that the lt h o p community is on the edge of its seat.

Unknown

Oh, LH T. O. P. I got it wrong. LHC. Okay.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Well, yeah, we'll talk we'll talk. All right. I'm

Adam CurryAdam Curry

gonna remember because I want to know, I want to know what that good. That was great. It was all propaganda, by the way the entire show was, I think was Norman Lear propaganda. But that's okay. If it did that for you, I'm happy.

Dave JonesDave Jones

No, I mean, noster. Yeah. And understand about the about the identity, about the identity thing, that the the problem the, there's some there's problems with that identity, though. And there's problem the so if you're, if there's no secondary keys, so you can't revoke a key, you just have to create a whole new identity. Hmm.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Wow, I didn't even thought about that. Because, you know, I do a lot of encrypted email and I can revoke a key and have a new one set up.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Right. So there's no key hierarchy. The the issue yes, you're you're moving, you're moving you're at you can move your identity from one relight to another. But in practice, there's only there's your your relays are limited to what you're connected to through your app. And that's primarily let me just say when when Domus goes away, which is looking like it will because of all the funding stuff that he's talking about the whole all of nostre collapses. That's just that's

just what's gonna happen. These these are highly centralized relays. And yes, you you, technically on paper, you can move from one to another, but that's not the way it's working out in practice. Anyway, that's, I don't want to spend too much time on that, but not understand what to do.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I do have an important question that just came in from blueberry 55 555 What kind of musical is Dave?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, oh, I forgot us. Yeah, we're watching musicals. And I can confidently say this, with like, with full authority that I've granted to myself. The greatest musical of all time. Is Hello, Dolly. With Barbra Streisand. Wow. There is no second place.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Do what do you think about Jesus Christ Superstar?

Dave JonesDave Jones

haven't seen it yet. It's on the list. My wife made a list of 104 musicals. And we're gonna we're watching and

Adam CurryAdam Curry

she stopped teaching and she no longer in the teaching profession. Where do you find this time?

Dave JonesDave Jones

We, we've. We've made it through a bar so far. Last Last night we finished An American in Paris. Gene Kelly. This

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is this is a secret passion of mine. I have seen many musicals on Broadway.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I love them. I'd never seen very many musicals. And then like she started watching them and made this list. And now I'm hooked. It's a fact that I think that what reminded me of this lesson the Internet is a mistake. Like, you look. And you can, you don't even have to go back to these musicals from the 50s and 60s, you can go back to even old TV

shows like The X Files from the 90s. And what you notice is like when you're when you're in somebody's office, their desk does not have a computer on it. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yes, exactly. And

Dave JonesDave Jones

it's so satisfying.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I was watching last night, we were watching the documentary of We Are the World USA for Africa, who have it as good as 1985. And Lionel Richie is kind of doing most of the narration as a lot of stuff. I didn't know. But what was interesting is they had to get all these artists into the nm studio all at the same time. And there were no cell phones. You know, there was no email that you had to communicate through managers. They were sending cassette tapes with the demo out

through FedEx. And then it worked. Well, a lot of them were at the American Music Awards. So they chose that night to after everyone had their awards. And they all took them to the studio. But it was the same thing. Like I mean, I think those things Smokey Robinson had one of those, you know, the big VHS cassette sized cell phones, but otherwise no one had a cell phone no one had email no one had even just to get the demo. Now. It's like hey, I'll shoot you an mp3. Like no, no, here.

They made cassettes. This and they FedEx the cassettes. It was it was beautiful. This,

Unknown

Robinson Yeah, it was. It was so so simple. Back then.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

You will enjoy a Book of Mormon.

Unknown

Book of Mormon. Okay. Fantastic. Fantastic musical. Okay, write

Dave JonesDave Jones

that down and make sure that's on the list. The same book of mormon so we watched cats the other night never seen I've never

Adam CurryAdam Curry

seen it was it good people rave about horrible.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That is the worst piece of work that's Hall of garbage I've ever seen. This is why

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I've never been compelled to go see it like that. I don't think I want to go see cats.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh my gosh is awful. It's evidently the we didn't make it through. We made it through about 30 minutes and we were all three of us. Me and my wife and daughter just stared at each other like no, no. I can't do this.

Unknown

Good. Well,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I want to report every every board meeting I want to report I want the the pod sage musical recommendation of the week.

Unknown

We need a jingle Yeah, sir

Adam CurryAdam Curry

TJ the raffle Jeff Smith get on the stick people we need the jingle.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Get CSB coming in 34,000 sets out and he says that he fellow white people David

Adam CurryAdam Curry

fellow white people made

Dave JonesDave Jones

it through shad GPT so we know this we know it's safe. I have gray blue eyes and I'm passing as local in Northern Europe including Scandinavia, despite merely being a Polak. However, if you are if you are an American, or you are interested in black American culture and culture and experiences in history, then I recommend podcast no facts which you can find at www dot mov facts Z with a z.com to get comprehensive insights that go beyond surface level commentary. Yossi SB

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Thank you CSB. Dan love that. That guy's doing that. He's promoting everyone else's podcast. That's so cool. That's so cool. Very cool. That's really cool that ESP appreciate it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We got some monthlies. We got pod page Brendan ever pockets bread

Adam CurryAdam Curry

dollars now with chapters and transcripts on the pod page. He's pulling that right in.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, is that a new feature? Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yes. New says noise is noise on pod page. Cameron

Dave JonesDave Jones

Rose $25 Thank you, Cameron. been around long time appreciate you brother Chad Farrow, the Chief Chief Marketing Officer of bugs in 2.0 $20.20. Thank you, Chad. Always pleasure. New Media $1. That's Martin Landeskog and Martin and Mark Graham $1. Thank you.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Thank you all so much. I check the tally coin. Nothing there of course but in case you want to donate a whole Bitcoin to the project. Go to podcast index.org down at the bottom you'll see two red donate buttons one is for on chain Bitcoin. The other is for your Fiat fun coupons through Pay Pal. And of course, we recommend you go to podcast apps.com Get a modern podcast app for all kinds of reasons. There's what are we what are we now on features 2019 and 20

Dave JonesDave Jones

Blend namespace feature Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Who does a lot there's a lot.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I happen to be on the podcast namespace page and I can't count them. Yeah, well then

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Dave is counting. I'm gonna say this set between 17 and 20 and a A lot of these apps have implemented all of them. And the one that the one that we like is V for v. So you can fill up your, your app, fill it up with some Satoshis. And boost us and we'll be happy 25 Wow. And we'll be happy to happy to read out your note and thank you on the show. And, as always, excuse me, this is a value for value project, podcasting. 2.0 Everything we do you got podcasting or saw social, we got

the website. We've got the API. We got the namespace. We're here for you with the podcast and the board meeting every single week. And we appreciate all our board members who showed up in the in the chat, which you can access to some of these apps as well. Or how do we even promote the chat? How do people even know to go there? Do we even promote it? To the IRC chat? Yeah, to the IRC chat? Well, that's where everyone is. I think the IRC chat you know,

Dave JonesDave Jones

what's funny is I keep tweeting and tweeting out the same chat link from like, literally five months ago.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And that's the, the nostril chat.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's the MK Ultra chat. That That thing's just been running for months. I have no idea what kind of craziness is going on in that chat.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I don't think anyone uses it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Let's go check out. There might be all sorts of horrible Shiny,

Unknown

shiny stuff. Probably. That's possible. See, chat.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I wonder if anyone's ever in there. That's interesting.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Chris, you know, from five days ago, no, he's talking about nip 47 Your wallet.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Wallet Connect. There you go. There's stuff in there. All right, everybody. We look forward to seeing you next week. Same time, same IRC channel. And of course, we'll be on the stream. Get them on podcast app, it will notify you when we go live and make sure to send us a boost. We're happy to send you a boost back brother Dave, thank you so much, man. It's always the people that don't maybe don't realize it. But this is literally the only time we talk. Yes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

There's a few texts during the week but this is when we talk pretty

Adam CurryAdam Curry

much it so this is a true true board meeting. Thank you all everybody. We will see you next week. That concludes the board meeting with all of our resolutions. The meeting minutes will be in the transcript See you next Friday. Everybody take care bye bye.

Unknown

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