Episode 165: hashtag This! - podcast episode cover

Episode 165: hashtag This!

Jan 27, 20242 hr 9 min
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Podcasting 2.0 January 26th 2024 Episode 165: "Hashtag THis!"

Adam & Dave celebrate the Apple Podcast Win with Sir Alecks Gates

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Adam CurryAdam Curry

2.0 for January 26 2024, episode 165 Hashtag this hello everybody welcome once again to the official board meeting of podcasting. Oh, that's right. This is the boardroom it's the board meeting and we are the only board room that meets on weekends in casual clothing. That's so true.

Everything going on with the namespace podcast index.org all the happenings at podcast index dot social I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and at Alabama the man who's at the root of all your AP bridge posts say hello to my friend on the other end the one and only Mr

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh fresh off the bag of popcorn all finished wait just in time for the show

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you didn't even pop your own you got a bag of popcorn

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I don't have time to pop I got I got stuff to do.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah well your your pod saves you very busy lots of stuff lots lots going on. What's happening? Yes. The man about town.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Well, I mean you're you were flying yourself. Yeah, I apologize

Adam CurryAdam Curry

out of the border if you go past go check it out. See what happened. I actually did look to see if there was an airfield near near Eagle Pass and there is not because I would have gladly flown down there but now I'm reading that they expect 700,000 trucks Oh, this seems like a lot of trucks.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think anything over anytime you get into the 1000s when you're talking about trucks even 1000 It's a lot of drugs a

Adam CurryAdam Curry

lot of trucks a lot of trucks yeah everyone's pretty jacked in that Texas about this

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh yeah. Ready to fight rolling the sleeves up. You

Adam CurryAdam Curry

know that's what I'm worried about. What are we what are we fighting? And all I see the mainstream do is like, Oh, this is God's army hits white and Christian nationalists. I'm like, I'm not so sure about that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't think there's that's that's not accurate.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's not accurate. When you go oh, so my buddy Dick Pepe. I've known for 35 years he used to be in the music business he back in the South Jersey days writing and producing for Alice Cooper Skid Row some Bon Jovi stuff. Baton Rouge you know a whole bunch of hair bands the Nelson twins

Dave JonesDave Jones

the nails Oh yeah. I forgot about this great great

Adam CurryAdam Curry

hair that's some pretty good songs that some hit No, we're okay

Dave JonesDave Jones

with their his name one of their hits.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

As you know you put me on the spot no and

Dave JonesDave Jones

see their video their music video in my mind.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I always like some sort of and let me see the Nelson was it twins are brothers. I can't remember if they called I think they might have called the Nelson they would just Nelson Nelson. Yes. Yes, it was. This is this is this one of their big hits. Oh, the video video version. Hey, let's play a song. Okay. Remember this one can't live without

Dave JonesDave Jones

get Louis Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Hey, check it out, man. Yeah, let's play the song. Like that. Little studio 2343

Dave JonesDave Jones

classic

Adam CurryAdam Curry

anthem starts like that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Just like that and extreme more than word nor that yeah, that was confused. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, this actually this was also a hit the remember this one after the rain. Has the concept the concept part of the video?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Everybody wants me thriller. Or is this I don't remember the Native American verb knows

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that has something to do with it. Right Come on. Come on guys. Play the song. Oh, that looks so pretty. The Nelson twins are so Freddie. parrot is after his rains.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I do. You remember this?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Did this pom pom pom pom pom pom pom? Pom Pom Pom Pom Pom Pom. Anyway

Dave JonesDave Jones

And this Ricky Nelson's kids.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly they are they're really nice guys, by the way. So it was Yeah, so I would be part of the crew. We hang out there and playing out in the studio and mess with each other all day long playing pranks. It was Yeah, so anyway, Vic got a clue and get out of the music business. Yeah, and he got into, this is a great business he's in. So he sells it solutions to companies, I guess a probably be selling to you and the CEO or, you know, maybe this

Dave JonesDave Jones

foreign guy, this is not the porn guy this year old buddy.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That's another one of my great friends. No, this is not the corn guy. Thanks. No, no, so he'll sell like my Microsoft Teams, you know, now with AI integration, or, you know, some other call center stuff. But then channel partner Yes. And so he, he has the relationship with the company, takes him out the golf, you know, all the fun stuff. And then his company managers, the actual implementation partners.

But he gets as long as as long as that company is still playing, paying, you know, a per seat license for whatever it is, he gets a piece of that for in perpetuity for, ya know, these guys, this is a great business,

Dave JonesDave Jones

holy crap the same. This is the same business that all the voice over IP guys use. So it's like, they get you in and they sell you a white label Voice over IP service. And they're just, they're just like, they don't they don't care. They have like, 10 different providers on the back end. Something Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

whatever you want. Whatever you want. Yeah. So he told me this unbelievable story. So somehow he got into the Federal Reserve System, which was like 1215. Banks, who knows? And, and so he's and the, the request there is to reduce their overall technology spend by $12 million dollars a year. So he gets a spreadsheet. Guess how much the Federal Reserve? I hope I'm not blowing anything here for him. But guess how much the Federal Reserve System spends on software annually across all the

banks? Their system? On software? Yes, software licenses and stuff. I'm

Dave JonesDave Jones

gonna say 75 million $800

Adam CurryAdam Curry

million. Oh, my God. I'm like, 12 million. That's just what falls on the floor in the morning. Are you kidding me? You can find that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That was off by 10x. Isn't

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that crazy? Oh, my gosh.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't It's like Brewster's millions. I wouldn't even be able to know. Like, I wouldn't know how to spin that. What are the use? Here's $150 million. Go spend it. I'm like, I don't think I can. So then

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm showing him you know, Bucha grand ball. I'm showing, you know, the lit stuff. I'm showing him how the streaming sites work. And he's like, who implemented all this? I said, you know, the, the guys and the gals. Yeah, but who did it said? Well, it doesn't. It's like, you know, lightning was a bunch of other people over there. And RSS is here, and we do namespace. And he's been his mind is like boggled. But then when I when I show how you know, and so you're listening here,

and then the Satoshis come out here. He's like, what? But But But couldn't you do that with dollars? I said, No, no, you can't. If we could, I'm sure we would. 10 You can't you would.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Because every because every 1000 sets that goes in 900 of those would go to a seat of office 365.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's just crazy. But anyway, so yeah, so instead of driving five and a half hours, I got a Safety Pilot and we flew up, takes exactly one hour from the airport six minutes from my house, so you can't beat that. You just can't beat it. It's so beautiful. This is of course at 16 gallons an hour of gasoline, the slur brothers slurps a little bit more than the car.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's another step. That's a slur.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

We flew out after no agenda on Thursday, so it was in the dark. That was cool. Yeah, that was very cool. Have you flown in the dark much? Well, I did to get my initial license. I haven't flown in the dark here in Texas. It's just beautiful. It's beautiful.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Lights and what are you hot? I mean, how hot Are you? 15,000 No, no,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it's not pressurized at 9000 feet. Okay, so it's just you know, just where it's comfortable. We're not like I feel kind of spacey

Dave JonesDave Jones

hypoxia, so you don't need pressure. You just need some heat. That's about it. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yeah. He was fully air conditioned, you know has cupholders you name it. Nice Sirius XM Radio. Parachutes parachute apparently CarPlay and Android Auto, whatever you want. We actually can sync your your iPad to to the system.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So that way you can get your you can get your your pod with your pod verse chat. yours. Yep, yeah. On the dashboard, the dashboard Yeah. 9000 feet.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That's right. That's right. Oh, man. So anyway, so and, you know, just in all the just, I think I've completely spaced on it to tell you that we need to change everything and so then on a dime, you flip it around and you contact our already scheduled guest today. I'm gonna I'm sure bring him in here. Who was kind enough to flip his schedule around and we are very proud to have with us the official podcasting 2.0 consultant. Ladies, gentlemen, our other friend on the other end, Mr. Alex gates.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Hello, gentlemen.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, you sound so professional. Nice. So great Alex's number the men the first time we had him on. Yeah

Dave JonesDave Jones

yeah, yes. Honey tones now. This is great. Oh, I love it. Oh, you sound great.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

He has kind of, he's got the big bottom sound on me. What am I doing? You got it.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Electro voice already? 320 I believe. That's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

what that's the Adam curry mic.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And the Dave Jones mic. Yes.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I thought SM seven B? No,

Dave JonesDave Jones

no, I'm on the 320 We're all I've always been on 320.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And we're on kick drum mic as a kick drum mic.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Is it? Yeah. What do you got? Bass? The Alley you got? You got a deep voice. You got a deeper voice than I've ever heard before.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Yeah, I used to listen to my Allison myself on the old mic. And yeah, I definitely didn't hear it. But I think you're right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

The old mic that wasn't a mic wasn't as like just oh, oh, show beer. What are we drinking?

Dave JonesDave Jones

This is uh, this is a liquid death sparkling water? Because for some reason I like to spend like $3 a can on

Adam CurryAdam Curry

water. Yeah. Very good. Very good. Sorry about. So I think we should start off with with this rather interesting news that that reached us.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I would like everybody to take out their Bibles. Yes. Okay. Bring out the book. Then turn to Luke chapter 11. Verse

Adam CurryAdam Curry

five. Okay. And what does it say in 11? Five. Luke chapter

Dave JonesDave Jones

11. Verse five says, then teaching them more about prayer. He used this story. Suppose you want you suppose you went to a friend's house at midnight, wanting to borrow three loaves of bread. You say to him, a friend of mine has just arrived for a visit and I have nothing for him to eat. And suppose he calls out from his bedroom. Don't bother me. The door is locked for the night. My family and I are on the bed. I can't help you. I tell you

Adam CurryAdam Curry

this real scripture, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

but I tell you this though, he won't do it for friendship sake. If you keep knocking long enough. He will get up and give you whatever you need because of your shameless persistence.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Say that in the Bible shame. Your shame was.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I love the NIV says You're shameless. You're shameless audacity. I think.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Truer words never spoken. Go

Dave JonesDave Jones

away. Yeah. So translation is our shameless persistence will eventually annoy everybody into submission. Even apple. Isn't

Adam CurryAdam Curry

this. Where if if your son asks you for, you know, for something to eat, would you give him like a dead fish or something? Or stinky rock? Bread? Would

Dave JonesDave Jones

you give him a stone? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, there you go. I know. I'm sure. Well, it happens their foot in the door without basically by ignoring them. This is very good. I'm very proud. Very proud, very proud of our accomplishment that you took a meeting with them yesterday with the Apple team. Can you talk about that? I mean, you just tell us briefly what happened here because it came kind of from all directions. First, it was short. And then, like the floodgates opened up all of a sudden.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. Ted Hoffman, it's in an email saying, Hey, let's listen to him. Let's do a meeting. I need to tell you something. And then, like, out of 30 minutes later, Mastodon Tomlin started blowing up apples do a transcript tag. So, you know, it was just bloody I mean, you know, Todd started, you know, started the flood and

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, okay. Yeah. By Todd is usually the guy who's like, I can't tell you I'm under NDA.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Todd kind of threw rss.com under the bus in his in his Oh, really? What did he do? Like? He was like, no, he's like, Hey, I heard Apple's doing the transcript tag because RSS sent out an email from a thing that they got from Apple. It's like he was kind of like see like covering his bases like someone else. Just stuck in the middle guys. But yeah, Oh, it was but anyway, so yeah, we had we had a meeting and they just

showed me the they showed me the transcript feature. And just went over some some implementation details talking about, like some things that their team has has said about things we should be aware of, with interpretation of the tag. And then a couple of things that they wanted, that they were

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the number one thing they wanted was to be on the modern podcast apps list.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I said last week, I was like, Look, I'm gonna put you on modern podcast apps.com. I'm not, I don't know if I can get you to nude podcast apps.com That's,

Unknown

that means specialist. You

Dave JonesDave Jones

don't just walk it you don't just walk around your neck, like your pod friend earned that you got to earn this. So I mean, I think so just in general. They did the right thing. I mean, it's they they're a big company with with a lot of resources, obviously, they could have they could have easily just said look,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

screw it iTunes colon transcript, or they could have

Dave JonesDave Jones

just not done anything at all and just auto generated all the transcripts and said, Do you know that's what you get? We're not your you can't do your own transcript, we're just going to auto generate them. It's what Spotify does. And you and YouTube,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

this is what this is what made me so happy. I even saw in their spec in their, you know, their spec or whatever they call it kind of the how to use podcasts Apple podcast, they refer to the namespace to the GitHub namespace. That was cool. Yeah, link to it on there. Yeah. So what are the parameters around this? That if you have an existing transcript that will flow through, they won't do anything? It'll just happen.

And, and do they, for just from what I've been reading, at 9000 feet, excuse me, I have to read a little person messengers here. It appears that they will take your name recognition, Speaker names and stuff, and that'll show up that that'll all work perfectly.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. So there's, yes. Let me go over a little bit of the technical partners. They so they didn't they did they did it. It's I don't know if you've seen it, but they did it very well. I mean, it looks, it looks no I haven't seen it looks really good. It's got the word by word highlighting that's.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

VTT word by word or

Dave JonesDave Jones

TT or SRT both both. Oh, cool. Yeah, write custom font. For for it. Speak. It's the guest speaker labels, if those are in there, but only in VTT. You can search the transcript there's halls or music that plays during the show that you'll get this little icon sort of like, like, three dot indicator saying, Hey, we're just kind of chillin while until the words come back. As basically everything you'd expect in a high quality transcript feature. I mean,

other 2.0 apps go further, obviously, like pod friend. True friends, go further and show like in show the person tag and link, you know, link out to the Avid, you know, avatars of the speaker. But I mean, when it comes to honoring just the intent of this one tag. I can't really find anything to criticize. I mean, I think I think there is room for them to go forward and start to do more of this stuff. And I think they've, I think by doing this, they've indicated that they that

they're open to do that. You can't really find anything to criticize because they're mean

Adam CurryAdam Curry

well, they basically accept they've accepted the namespace that that's the thing that makes me happy on the other side, I'm also like, okay, so I still want our apps to be super competitive, which they

Dave JonesDave Jones

are and they will be so I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

want from my perspective you No, I'm not gonna like Oh, it's great. Everyone go to Apple nope, no, no, not gonna not gonna do that. But I really appreciate the people who were there and who have implemented it in this manner because that is exactly that's exactly what you'd hope and it is exactly what we never expected. Because big that not nothing against Apple per se, but you know, Spotify is is the is the example. They just go out. No, we're Spotify. We got

it all. And I think it's a big fu to Spotify. It's it also I'm sure they did this a because it's kind of low hanging fruit. Seems it also was good because you know they're they're genuine writing it for every podcast. It. I think it kind of spurs people on to do it through their hosts, because you have a lot more control over over what's happening there. And I, I'm sure

their transcripts are great. I don't know what they're using, and also kind of shows that speaker recognition is hard business, which is why they're not doing it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Well, they Yeah, they're not Yeah, they're not doing that in this. So they've kind of built to think this is worth talking about for a second, they built two things here. They built a transcript generation service. And this feature into the podcast app, so you can go and grab the transcript that they auto generate for you. You can edit it, and then stick it back in your feed with the RSS with the podcast transcript, right? And you have a VTT transcript that

was auto generated for you. And so you, you can basically just use that thing for free. And they encourage that. I mean, they said that during the meeting, they're like, you know, here's how you do it, you round trip it back through RSS if you want to do this.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So could you even automate that from a podcast hosting company?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't think so. And and I think they're probably, you know, I think it probably terms and stuff like that, but I think like, you know, I don't know, that'd be kind of weird, but but I did ask them does it work on video podcasts? And this is, you know, someone to talk to you about Alex? Because I was thinking about peer to does does this

work on video podcasts? They said no. So the transcripts or audio podcast, only writing it for now, and they said they really have any plans to make that to make that any different. But I think VTT does what appear to us is right. Yeah, correct. Okay, is that does is their, this, this was kind of this was kind of odd, I think in because I didn't really fully understand the VTT spec. That well, until this week, when I had to go and kind of brush up on things. And I didn't realize until a couple

of days ago, that is the how intense this thing is. It has got so much it's in it's essentially XML in, in, it's like a sec, you take SRT, and you embed a stylesheet engine, and XML and all this stuff into it. It is a crazy big spec with all kinds of stuff like you can make. You can control the style of the output of all the VT of all the cash, like a markdown type thing. markdown. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. In like, it's pretty intense. But from my understanding, I don't know what

peer tube supports when it shows it. But they said they're on their side that they're only going to basically they're just doing speaker Speaker Labels. And that's it.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Yeah, I don't think peer tube even enforces the spirit Speaker Labels. And anyway, just kind of converts if you can upload SRT. So it's like a really basic, basic trans transcript. I think it only uses VTT, because that's what the browser supports.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, yeah. Because you can just stick that run to the to the like, video tag or whatever.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

We do have Mark calls film killing yard has a VTT transcript that someone could test with. It's really basic isn't it gets out of sync to I don't even know if Apple supports HLS video anyway.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I thought that they pioneered it. I thought they pioneered they created Yeah.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Well, they've created the protocol. I don't know if they're supporting Apple podcasts. Okay, okay. Oh,

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's, that was that'd be it?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

I have no idea. I just don't know.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Did they say anything else? I mean, did you say you definitely felt that there was an A A hint of well, this is based start, you know, the we this is how we'll do stuff, maybe more coming dot dot dot.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I mean, I did get I did get that feeling. I felt like they wanted to play ball. But they with with things in the future. But there's they're big and they're slow. And they take a lot of time. And honestly, I mean, that's that. I mean, that's okay. But it may not understand. I mean, that's the way things go in a large corporation. And so the, I mean, they asked Ted I'm like, Well, what, you know, what, what would your message be to like people in the podcasting 2.0 deaf

group. And he said, I want you know, he's like, if I can say anything, I would say that Apple podcast is a modern podcast app. I want them to think of it that way. Wow. That tells me that you know, they're there want to go forward with other things. So we'll see what happens

Adam CurryAdam Curry

boosting is next.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Me I think I think VTT I don't know if you agree with this, Alex. But I mean, it's hard to ignore somebody that's got that much. So in an app coming in, that has that much market share. So it really makes I think VTT probably become the default. Probably what everybody should be generating by default, since it's basically, since it's really not that much more difficult to generate than SRT.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Yeah, I would agree with that. There's pretty much no reason not too. I mean, there, there's an argument to be made that we could maybe some of the absolute favorite JSON just because of the word by word timestamps. But otherwise, I would agree with that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, cuz then you then you just get, you get web kind of for free. You know?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm just looking to see if otter outputs VTT, I don't even know I never even looked at it. I say SRT

Dave JonesDave Jones

and VTT are so close, all relate to each other. I mean, they're, they're so close to each other as far as the actual format goes. I guarantee you there's some like, converter or something like that. But But see, you know, on the podcast in 2.0, the app side? Well, I guess I can clarify does that anymore. But so in on the, you know, for the apps, like from the from that podcast, and on a dev group, those are going to be probably a lot of times using Steven

craters transcript, dater live. Right, right. So they can just kind of consume anything in and out, and they're going to output. Whatever. I mean, I think the developers really even care at that point what you give them they're just, they

Adam CurryAdam Curry

can they can pick and eat it however they want. Yeah, but newsflash otter does not do, Vicente. That's what I've been using SRT. Yeah. So this, of course, begs the question. Do we now get to say that approximately 46% of all downloads are podcast 2.0 apps? Let's be honest about it.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

I think so. It's really, it's really validating, as someone who works so hard the namespace because I was listening to pod news weekly review, and they were talking about Lipson, you know, pretty much not caring about podcasting 2.0 features, and it's like, do you want to change the world? Or do you want apple to do it for you? And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

and learn there's no coincidences in the kingdom? No sooner? No sooner had those words been spoken? Or they they did it? They did exactly that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

What a great that that's a great way to put it. Alex is like, are you just gonna sit back and wait for somebody else to do this stuff for you? Or do you want to have a hand in creating it? And then right now, I feel you on that, brother, I mean, like, so. And I think that I think that they're going to be involved in the way that they can. So one of the things that they requested

Adam CurryAdam Curry

was an invite to podcasting. Next on social. We're already there. I mean, I know we got people there lurk, and

Dave JonesDave Jones

yeah, they're like, but one of the things that they talked about was, AI, was tagging. So they're, they're big on. They're big on AI tagging. So they want things to be clearly labeled whether or not in there, if you look on their transcript page, if it's an auto generated transcript that they created in their system, it's going to say at the bottom, this was generated, this is auto generated. And they want to, he was saying that he wanted to extend that if possible, by adding it's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

he's lurking quick, let me kick them off.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So he said, he said they want to extend that to, to the transcript tag, if we can figure out as a group a way to do that, well, essentially, like put in some sort of generator attribute or something that was called where this transcript came from.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I think I recall a discussion about that on a on the GitHub, I think, actually, James might have been talking about that, if I recall correctly. There was something about that,

Dave JonesDave Jones

as well, there was a tag proposal for just in general saying, tagging an entire podcast as this is an AI podcast, like it. This is an AI generated podcast. And I think that like this would be you know, what they were saying and, and I think it's probably a good idea is that if you extend if you sort of like because that's a little bit too broad. I mean, like there's certain aspects of the podcast that could be aI generated Did you may that we may really need to have

disclosed? Like, perhaps the transcript itself comes from an AI generated come in, it could be that your deck could almost be like a disclaimer like, Hey, don't you know if we, if this thing gets wrong? Yeah, it came from it came from AI or whatever, it

Adam CurryAdam Curry

shouldn't be at the bottom, it should be at the top of the transcript, honestly, for sure.

Dave JonesDave Jones

in things like, like the, maybe the person tag it had, maybe there's a attribute in there this is, you know, is this essentially some sort of way to indicate whether or not this was an actual person or some kind of autogenerate? Just a

Adam CurryAdam Curry

crazy thought. But, you know, the, the GitHub discussions are open for anybody. I mean, now, it's kind of going through one person than the next, but I'd love to see them in there with some proposals. Now,

Dave JonesDave Jones

they're in there. They're in there sometimes. Yeah, they were, you know, they worked on the txt tag with us.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Right, right. Okay, good. Good.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. But I think I think it's something that will well,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

now I'm gonna go buy an Apple vision Pro. I feel good now. And while we're on the topic, anyone who might be listening over there, I am very gung ho on creating a virtual podcast studio, here's an opportunity, just say, where

Dave JonesDave Jones

you can fly now without leaving your home. At the border. I live in Fredericksburg.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Now I want to be flying and doing a podcast at the same time.

Dave JonesDave Jones

He's got the Patriot app, he just load up. So yeah, but it's good. I mean, that's great. Good thing. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And congratulations to everybody. Congratulations to everybody in the podcast and 2.0 orchestra. And enter the apple team, I'm really very happy about this. Because this is one of these moments. And I think we've talked about this Meantime, just someone's gonna happen. And then and, and there will be a bump. And this is although this is maybe not a huge public facing bump. This is something that shows it completely certifies what we're doing, it validates what we're doing.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I just think it's hilarious to have podcast apps.com and apple at the very bottom of the list, one tag. That just makes me so happy.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Speaking of lists, so and I see you have some clips, of course, I haven't listened to anything you sent me. But there wasn't a discussion. I also have not unfortunately listened to pod pod news weekly review, I feel like I haven't done my homework this week yet. But I saw the topics. And so this was a conversation that well, you know, and I if I recall, the the people of podcasting 2.0 They won't really tell you that it's only 1% of apps. Like okay, and

then so I started a little a little thread. I said, Well, this all depends, you know, we can all wait around for, you know, some some marketing firm to come along and promote the benefits of podcasting 2.0 Or do what people are already doing is I promote to my slightly less than 1 million no agenda listeners an app, you know, podcast apps.com, but I always

talk about an app that I'm using. And then I went and I looked at the OP three stats, and I see that, you know, I've got 30% using pod verse, I've got 15% using fountain, then chyron pops up his op three list, he's got 60% of his audience using fountain. This is this is how the marketing works. And, and to me, it was just kind of like, I like to remind everybody, podcasting isn't a platform. You know, it's not like one big monolith where, you know, it's only the aggregate

that counts. It's just not true. So I have a million people, there's 300,000 that are using pod verse. That's not bad.

Dave JonesDave Jones

No, that's not that's not bad. That's, that's not just not bad. That's great. Yeah. Like,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

then, and a couple of people were putting up their stats. And I was like, No, yeah, you can look at it that way that it's less than 1%. But for my world, which is only important to me, it's a much higher number, and I'm super happy and I and I get those people to use those apps. And they try different ones out. And you know, there's a lot of there's 15 of them now. And and I promote the I promote the benefits and for my money. The number one thing that I'd love

to see Apple use is pod ping. I mean, that wouldn't actually you could actually send out a press release that Apple is saving the environment by polling less, and we have hundreds of 1000s of feeds that are that are hitting pod ping

Dave JonesDave Jones

with you, if you Yeah, I mean, Alex brought up so you know he is talking about Alex, you were talking about what Rob said he's you Just just to catch everybody up in case they don't know what we're talking about. This is Rob Walsh from the feed, which he works at Lipson, and he's they have a podcast called the feed. And he's talked to him about on there. He had a question from a listener about what is podcasting? 2.0? Like, how do I get involved? And this was his answer.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Which one is this? Internet? Rob? Rob, what

Dave JonesDave Jones

is podcasting? 2.0? I'm

Adam CurryAdam Curry

sorry, yes, I see it here at the bottom. Alright,

Unknown

podcasting. 2.0 is not one thing. It is many, many different items, none of which are supported by Apple podcasts or Spotify. Actually, less than 1% of all downloads to aggregator apps come from apps that support any of the podcast 2.0 specs, this is something you do not hear the podcast 2.0 proponents mention, there's virtually no support on the listener side per aggregator apps, which is where it's posted matter most.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You put that in there, that was not me, you're trying to serve me. I'm gonna ignore the the fact that, you know, now this is this is incorrect. That's not fair. But

Adam CurryAdam Curry

But hold on, hold on a second. You can ignore it. We talked we talked to Libsyn, two years ago. And yeah, we're gonna do it, we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it. I felt personally, I felt there was like, You're, you're the one of the first companies that was out there, you've had a rough ride with all kinds of vO company issues. But that felt that felt like you're kicking us a little bit. Take it. Right. And if you were implementing one tag, then I would take the criticism. Read

it. But if you implement nothing like that, that just that just seemed a little bullish. bullish. No,

Dave JonesDave Jones

it did it. It will we I mean, we yeah, we had a meeting with them. And, you know, it's one of their lead developers. And I think the president of that company, and, you know, they told us that they were like, Well, we're here we, you know, we want to dive in, send us all the documentation that you've gotten us put together and spend time putting together a bunch of documentation and emailing it to them, and then they didn't do anything. Right. And, you know,

which is, is fine. I mean, evangelism is the hardest part of any open source project and 99% of the time, it doesn't produce any results. Just

Adam CurryAdam Curry

ask Jesus. It was really difficult. I just had a hard time getting the word out. Yeah, it's very spiritual podcast today. Yes, I was you started it. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I did. I did is muffled. So if we like, if I don't really care about criticism, if I did. We, I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

mean, we were

Dave JonesDave Jones

a long time ago. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but, you know, I guess. I guess it's, you know, we're not hiding anything. And the biggest issue with what he said, as far as I'm concerned is, and I kind of want to move on to something else. The that ALC said it but my biggest thing with him with what he said was that he's talking about podcast stats as if they are one thing that indicate that is yeah, like you said, is if the entire industry is one monolithic thing, yes. It's it's like, it's

like talking about the economy in terms of GDP. Yeah. The GDP went up two and a half percent in quarter, you know, in in 2020.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

My step kid in Brooklyn, she's starving. Kids, there's waiting tables. Exactly. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

your GED, your your two and a half percent GDP did not, you know, doesn't help the guy who lost his gig. Who got laid off? Yeah, it's irrelevant. It's an irrelevant number, the stat those kinds of stats don't mean anything. Because like you said, the biggest podcaster in the world, Joe Rogan has one app. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

one. And he's maybe four or 5% of all downloads. Yes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So these, saying this is just, to me indicates a misunderstanding of the nature of the podcast ecosystem at a fundamental level. Yeah. And I think, you know, when people say when people say this, when people use these kind of arguments, I think, what they're, what they're saying is, you know, companies that are heavily invested in and making money from pot in advertising, digital advertising, basically,

podcasting. I think what they're really saying is these features are boring because they don't allow me to make any money off your podcast.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, Yeah. Although people do move hosts for these types of features.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. And I'm not being ugly. I'm just saying that I mean, I think that's true. I think there's a there's because these these companies, they sell advertising on these shows. And so like, if they look at that chapters, and they're like, Well, I don't give a crap about chapters. I mean, how does that help me make money? Like, I think there's, I think it gets clouded like that, right? Yeah. Well, in that Yeah, absolutely.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Absolutely. It's the same thing is, you know, hey, there's $2 billion dollars going around and podcasting. Okay.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, but, you know, the other thing, I think, I think what ALC said, was more interesting to me. She talked about being intimidated by the technical nature of 2.0. I am

Unknown

not negative about podcasting 2.0 features, and I really find them exciting. But I'm at a loss as to how to communicate a lot of this in a simple manner, with the demographic and psychographic that I serve. And also, if I want to participate in a lot of this stuff, a lot of the conversations I've seen around podcasting, 2.0 is very technically centric. And I feel like I don't understand it myself. And I kind of feel overwhelmed. And, like, I'm not

smart enough to know this stuff. Like, that's just a personal feeling that I get when these conversations come up. Not that they're trying to make people feel that way. No, no, I mean, I, I actually feel like I don't even know what to say about that. Because in all honesty, I get confused by a lot of the conversations, I feel intimidated by you being in the in those rooms, or in rooms, as in like not actual rooms, you know what I mean? Like in communities that are really pro

podcast 2.0. Because a lot of the conversations are really technical. And I feel like I don't even know what to say, I wouldn't even know like, all I would be doing is going so what is that? Wait, what? What is that? Like? What's, uh, where does that go? How do I see that again, like, and so I feel like they'd be explained, like explaining way basics. And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

oh, well, that's a very good point.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, and I'm glad he threw in there that, you know,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that we're not doing our purpose. Yeah, exactly.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I thought that I thought that was a good thing that he threw in,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

well, this will this is good. And this conversation comes back from time to time. And then it happened again. The, I think we can agree now, if not, I think it was said quite clearly, podcasts. index.org should not be the place to explain podcasting. 2.0. No, first of all, the podcasts, hosting companies. They're the ones that speak to the podcasters. And I think they've done a pretty good job of

explaining some of these features. That's their job they and walking people through these features and how they have helped desk when people get stuck. I want to see 2530 4050 websites that explain it if you if you go looking for the official podcasting website, it doesn't exist. But there's 1000s of YouTube videos and hundreds of podcasts, Dave Jackson School of podcasting that explain what this is, I mean, there's 20

years of explanation. And you know, Daniel J. Lewis, he's, you know, he's, he has ideas and I think he should put them out there. And I'd be the first point to say, hey, if you're looking for an explanation of of these features, check this out. Listen to this podcast. Whenever someone says to me how to get started with the podcast, I send them to school of podcasting.

Always like go there Dave Jackson gets it and I think you can also get some some episodes and lessons on podcasting 2.0 that we need more of that and so I just want to make sure we move away from the notion that you know that somehow we need to be the marketing site because it'll never be good ever. It won't we tried it we had a guy who was trying to do it and and he left because we were like, No, this is not this is not is not good. It's not and he laughed. He's like, Oh, you guys no good Yeah,

that's right. But this is this is not it. Now and I hope that Dame Jennifer she she sent me a note the other day she says I'm working on the on the video explanation of this, like that's fantastic. It will happen. I mean, it took a while. Then,

four to four to happen. Initially, I mean, in the beginning, we had to tell listeners to go find an orange RSS icon, right click copy, go to your app to hit some, subscribe, don't worry, it's not going to cost you a subscription doesn't cost you anything, I just explained that paste, and then then it's in there. You know, these things take time and the end, people will start to, you know, create lessons and information.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Let's step back, let's step back for a minute and just look at what podcasting itself like actually consists of multiple locations of HTTP objects delivered over IP, one of which contains an XML file, describing metadata of a show, and a bunch of episodes, in part in other HTTP locations, describing potentially mp3 files, WAV files, other audio file types, I mean, explaining this setup to any normal person.

You've already it's completely hopeless. You've already RSS based podcasting itself is already hopelessly difficult to explain. Yeah, people's eyes glaze over. So podcasting 2.0 is not unique in this way. If you're trying to explain the guts, of RSS based podcasting, you better stop because you're not going to do it to a normal person. Yet, somehow. We have a thriving podcast ecosystem. Amazing. And you Yeah. And you know why? Because programmers and developers take these

complex schematics. And they translate them into something that nobody has to understand. The Alec Alex's work on peer tube, he took all the 2.0 stuff, and baked it into peer tube so that somebody who knows nothing about video podcasting, can fire up the channel, have a to podcasting 2.0 compatible feed with a ton of features. Yeah, and they can go live stream and they don't know anything. So I guess, like, well, the same,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the same. The same can be said for pod home. Pod home. Yeah, upload your your file, and it says, Oh, here's your here's a suggestion for your chapters. Here's your transcript. Here's some other, you know, whatever other things, title, all of those come suggested. And so it's interesting that, you know, LC works at Lipson she should know,

I mean, Lipson have they launched Lipson five yet. It's difficult to build UX that explains to people what they're doing, but yet companies are doing it Buzzsprout has made it pretty simple. I think I think that blueberry has, you know, has effectively communicated to their customers, hey, here's what they call features, or whatever they call them. And here's new stuff. And here's the apps that show them. So I mean, yeah, but this these things take a little bit of time, if you're

only looking at podcasts index dot social, or the GitHub. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I can't even put up with the GitHub.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Like, it's just that. I guess what I'm trying to say is it is Robin, Elsie probably should stop trying to explain to porn, though it's really not. Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

not there. They shouldn't, they shouldn't have to hear they should be paying someone to tell them what it is. That's the other hosted. But I worked for a lot of people who don't know what I do. And I explain it to them in a higher level. And they're just not making the investment.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, I would imagine in your day job, Alex, that you're probably you know, you, you explain the high level stuff, and then you go build the build the solution. And then they don't have to know how the solution works. It's just you told you told them that the rough idea, and then you have a finished product and that's what they paid you for.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

And how much it cost. Yeah, yeah. And how much it costs?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, Alex, I'll have you know that Mo Mo facts is coming your way. Okay, he is ready. He is ready. He has his basic understanding. You know, he has a YouTube understanding and I think that what you've done with peer tube I think you've you've given us enough hints there in the interface and what you need to do that's like hey, you connect it up here. And then you start streaming here it recording is here. And here's I

think you even Jeff to hook up a wallet or is that built in? I don't remember up

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

so just to be clear, most of that's not even my work. That's just the pure to developers. They're really great. But you I mean you just have to saw the lightning plug in and add like a lightning address or whatever. So cool. And thanks, Eric or head for that work. So yeah, I mean, it's, there's a couple things that you have to install afterwards. But yeah, I'd be happy to help him with that. Yes,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm sending him to you. I'm sending him to you.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Just be speaking of YouTube. There's another. There's another clip I want to play because I think this is actually pretty appropriate. Where she's talking about the YouTube Music app lacking basic features,

Unknown

quote, I've been asking for the ability to mark episodes has played since May, and Google in December, said to expect that in the coming months, it's really a basic podcast client feature to help manage your library, playing a podcast and dragging the scramble all the way to clear it from that new episodes playlist is a ridiculous hack. A more minor ask is support for podcast chapters, which I'm actually hopeful for given that there's an equivalent video feature.

Meanwhile, YouTube music needs new episode notifications. One underrated feature of Google podcasts was that the parents company's vast server cloud infrastructure meant episode alerts were instantaneous YouTube music needs per show notification instead of just relying on that your new episodes carousel and the home feed. Surprise, YouTube decided to expand internationally without something as basic as this since it would encourage people to keep using the app for

podcast and quote. So back to kind of just wrap the conversation we had prior to the promo. We're still here. Yep, we are still at them. marking an episode played part of the game.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, good point.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But see that, that that is a direct contradiction to what they're talking about earlier. Yeah. It's the these at these apps. These if the, if the YouTube app sucks this bad. The YouTube Music app sucks this bad for podcasting. Tell your audience not to use it. Tell your audience to go and use it and use a 2.0 app. Yeah, it's it's so easy. You don't have to know what podcasting 2.0 is. Just tell them to go use a modern podcast app that is decent. I mean, the YouTube

Music app doesn't even have new episode notifications. WTF? What? Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

they don't they don't. They don't seem very serious about their effort in this. No,

Dave JonesDave Jones

it's, it's terrible. It's a, that's a terrible day. So like the Devitt. We depend on developers to take these to take all of these things, and translate them into usable software, that the listener and the podcaster, use a buzzer, like Buzzsprout Buzzsprout created the transcript tag, they brought that to the two point is to this two point space. They brought that to the 2.0 namespace. Then you have

rss.com, who's now auto generating transcripts. So they picked up something that another host used auto just started auto generating transcripts in their system and providing those now, and then you had 2.0 apps starting to show them in the in the player. Now you've got the apple podcasts app, showing transcripts in the player, for a huge portion of of listeners, no listener, and no podcaster had to ever know about this. Never

had to be explained. It just happened organically. As developers, there's gonna there's gonna come a point there's gonna come a point in every day in the life cycle of every app, that's an I mean, every podcast app, where the bases were so many of the basic features are covered. And the

developer is looking for new ideas and new things to do. And they're going to see and this this goes back to why we focused so hard on developing relationships with the hosting companies from the beginning, is if you can get all if you can get as if you can get tons of feeds to have these features in them. And this is what hurts so bad about Lipson not being on

board. Yeah, because Lipson has tons of feeds. If you can get the content out there, eventually in the lifecycle of each app, and when the developer is looking for new things to do in new features to bring to their audience. They're gonna look at all of these feeds, and they're gonna say, oh, you know, what, what is this? Interesting, this is the PERT, what does the person tag do?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Or in fact, they look at our API and say, Oh, look at this. We got pod rolls coming out.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, what's a pod roll? That's this. This is interesting. What is, uh, you know, here's a transcript, no, they had transcript, all you're gonna, you're gonna see, whoa, chapters, there's a whole chapters file, you're going to, they're going to begin to see all of this content out there in hundreds of 1000s of feeds. And they're just going to reverse engineer backup to the spec, and start building these and showing them, but they would never do that if the spec existed in a

vacuum. And there was no content there. And so what I'm saying is, this is an inevitable rollout slow rollout of new features. And this is the way it

Adam CurryAdam Curry

always Oh, and it always takes time. Yes, it takes takes a long time. It's like value for value takes a long time before. It's like oh, and then all of a sudden everyone's kind of seeing it. Everyone's seeing value dripping into their wallets.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It part of what they used was the jeans mom argument. You know, I can't explain to to jeans

Adam CurryAdam Curry

model but she died. So that's kind of a bad. It's not good to use that anymore. It's no, no, no. Jeans. It's an honorary honorary title. I think Jean is very happy with us using it still. In Memoriam Memorial jeans mom in memoriam GMM because

Dave JonesDave Jones

the whole idea of the jeans. Now, this is an honoring thing, because you know, the idea of the jeans mom argument was that was that it was not fair to jeans mom. Like, the Jim's mom was smarter than everybody who gave her credit. And so that's the thing is like, you know, we keep being told I can't recommend some other app, or or some other feature somebody go seek out another feature or something like that, because it's too hard to explain. Well, you don't have to

tell you. I can tell you that. If you look at Chrome's market share lately. No. It's like 85% of the entire internet is Google Chrome, as Google Chrome is not delivered by default on any operating system. Somebody has learned somewhere that they're supposed to go download an app. I mean, the the argument that people don't are not willing to try new things. Yeah, he's not specious. I don't think that's true. So everybody, people are willing people will try new things.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

They do. I don't want to belabor what the proof is in the pudding. But it has to come from the podcast or when a podcaster says, Hey, try this app. Yeah. And I always use one or two features. The main one, I said, Hey, you know, you'll be updated within 90 seconds of me publishing it, you get an alert. Is that something you're interested in? Everybody's interested in that? I'm sick and tired of seeing on Twitter that something was released, and it's not in my app yet? Well,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think I think Apple got to that point, their lifecycle there locally at work, you know, what can we do looking around for new features and that kind of thing? Here's, here's a feature. 2.0 feature we can do? Yeah. And then they put that in there. And it also helps them because people want, they are less likely to bail out and go to a different app. But I mean,

it benefits everybody. And I guess my biggest thing here would, you know, my biggest message to to Lipson would be to just repeat what, what Alex said, Stop letting everybody else do this job for you, like getting the game is

Adam CurryAdam Curry

so true.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Well, I think I think the the tyranny of the default is worse than Apple, I just maybe argue against that a little bit. And Apple knows that. And that's why they that's why they're adding features.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

The Tyranny of the default? Yeah,

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

I will, I mean, it's the default apps, right. Most people probably use the apple podcast app, because that's what they have. And I think Android users are just more used to finding new apps.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, speaking. Okay. Speaking of Andrew, I thank you for saying that because it jogged my memory. Speaking of Android, so this, one of the things that they were telling me in the meeting yesterday was that this is about and I've got a GitHub post on this post on this. They were talking about the MIME types. And I think we have we have it correct for the MIME type is for VTT is text slash VTT The MimeType for SRT is like unobtainium, I cannot figure out

what the real one is. I don't think there actually is a real one that's defined anywhere by any sane human being. But Apple says that it should be text slash SRT. But I just don't think that's right. Because everything I can find says it's got to be either text plain or applications X sub rip. And we've got in our documentation that is supposed to be application slash x dash sub rip. But so I'm not I'm not

exactly sure what to do about that. Because you know, if we put in at text SRT, XR t, if we started recommending that, and that's not the actual thing, then. You know, it's because then they deprecated those x dash, whatever I thought, so I don't know, this is it's above. This is out of my comfort zone at this point,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Alex.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

I think if there's no standard, we just have to allow both. There's no way to enforce it anyway.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I agree. I agree. I mean, I don't see how that we'll see any other way to slice that.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

A tax plan is dumb that, no.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I'm trying to avoid the the inevitable. You know, every time you're in an open source project, and you do something, there's always which what you might call the MIME type smartass. That where you define something, and somebody pops up and says, you know, that's not the right MIME type. And it's like, oh, okay, fine. And then there's an inevitable flame war about what MIME type to use.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

So I'm actually Dave.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I'm trying to avoid that here. But I'm afraid I'm afraid. I don't, I don't want there to be like a, you know, 12 Page GitHub discussion about what MimeType to use in this scenario. So I'm not against what I'm saying is I don't think we can change anything at this point. I think. I think we gotta leave it alone for the moment.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm fine with leaving it alone for the moment.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You're not opinionated on the MimeType format?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

No, no, no, I want to move on to rising. I want to move on to the helipad update.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, yeah. What would you do, then i,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

t, Eric VP, sent a an update to heli pad, a beta, which I had to sideload. Now when you side load onto this as the start nine that I'm running, that was very interesting. It required a restart of the entire box. That's not necessarily because it it was stuck or anything. It was like I was out of ideas, because it installed and then it was throwing an error, and then was trying to stop and I couldn't stop the

service. And like, I'm just gonna reboot it. And then I was very interesting, because lnd took about full 3540 minutes to sync to the graph and sync the channels and it may be had gotten, I don't know what that was. And I have a feeling it may have been out of sync, something may have happened. I didn't look at it honestly before I installed but it doesn't matter. Because I got it installed. I got it working works perfectly. And so now it has a an extra tab. So for those who don't

know, heli pad is a piece of software. It has a great interface. And I mean, I love the interface is so simple. It's so beautiful just works. And you can see in real time when booths come in, and it has a timestamp, it shows you the logo of what app, it shows you the total amount of the booths sent. The name tells you the episode or in some cases, what song or what remote item if it's a if it's a value time split, then you can click on the timestamp, it'll bring you all the TLV all the

info about what was sent along with it. And with two apps to two apps that will be curio caster and cast automatic or who have a reply to as per the spec. They have implemented reply to I think it's in the spec, little Reply button surfaces and so you hit that then it says recipient which is basically the I think we should cast the Matic just shows me a a node address. So it's you know, I think curio caster showed me the name of the person who sent it as Yeah, yeah, that shows you the name of

the person who sent it. Then you can fill out your own name as sender which is open for interpretation, number of sets and a message and hit boost, a boost it right back and I tried it with curio caster tied into my lb wallet. And I replied, and it went right back to my lb wallet and with the message and it had my name there that I had filled in at the top. And I was able to reply to the boost with 1000 SATs. And so now I have a sent tab you have boost, you have streams so you can see the

per minute streams that are coming in. It's also fun to watch from time to time. And then the sense and it. And right there. It shows me the boost that I sent back. It's the Round Robin and I would love for other apps to implement this.

Dave JonesDave Jones

This have essentially turned over helipad to Eric peepee. At this point I gave him like maintainer rights on that repo. So he's like, I'm not I'm not even involved anymore. It's like his app now. He's he's rocking and rolling with it.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It is fant I mean, it's a very exciting. It's just exciting that, you know, I can send it back. Hey, thanks for your boost. I really appreciate it. And here's 1000 SATs back, SATs back

Dave JonesDave Jones

says that's bad. I wonder Friday.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I wonder. So this is cool export option, which I really love the export option. I wonder if that also works on the sent booths? Oh, yes, it does?

Dave JonesDave Jones

No way. Sure looks in there, too. Let

Adam CurryAdam Curry

me just double check. I'm gonna save this. I think so. It came up really fast on the sent tab. So um, that seems like that would work. I mean, this is becoming something really useful. Is heli pad is a is a is a very useful wagon at this point. I mean, I run everything on it. Every show runs on I'm exporting all the booths, you can start. There is a little problem, though. I think it's I think the split kit doesn't send the show it sends a song if you're if you're if it's

a time split, so that I can't do that. I can't sort that doesn't show up on my sword. Does that make any sense? If I'm sorting the spreadsheet, and I want to know, you know what that and so I'm just sorting it for one podcast, like Bucha gram ball. Then there'll be in the in the pivot table. So the song Yeah. So then I have Yeah, so that doesn't that becomes unusable. Yes. And there it is. Let me see. Yeah. That seems to work. tirelessly, like

Dave JonesDave Jones

because of my of my elegantly modular code base that allowed this very just plugged right in.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes, yes. And the interface of Karis right through? It's great.

Dave JonesDave Jones

He's been working on that for weeks. Yeah, I mean, like, I don't know, he, I think he started it last year, like before Christmas. But he's been working on that for a while. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And just so people know, for him. Yeah, just so people know how I use it, I just send a small split to my own node at home so that I can because you get the full amount. So you can you can manage all of the boosts coming in, whether it goes to Alby or wherever found to wherever your wallet is, just get a little little bit at home. I mean, it'd be great. If this could integrate into Alby. I'm sure people would love that, if that was possible.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But I don't know how Alex, Alex has been, you've been playing around with, with the, you've played around with the breeze SDK lately, right.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Not too much, but I've looked at a lot.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Because I wondered, you know, because I've always wondered if we could hook. Like, if you read if you just fired up, I've always had this vision, you know, like, you could just fire up a helipad with nothing to connect to

Adam CurryAdam Curry

a heart. It just has it has a wallet right in there.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And then it just spins up a green light.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

If breeze SDK supported case, and that would solve so many of the custodial issues we have is that you could just you could just run and you could just run your own node like that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

He's not only Elon URL right now.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

I mean, you could generate invoices, but I don't know about oh, new URL.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And we're gonna have to get Roy back on the show. So we can figure that out. Because I mean, that that would be I can't think of an easier solution. I mean, you you just we, we put, I mean, we could really Jamelia

Adam CurryAdam Curry

apps would be born. Amelia,

Dave JonesDave Jones

let me because you mean, you could think I mean, think about it, you could just download. You can install helipad. If I even threw a Docker image or something, you could install helipad. And then it comes up and you're like, Okay, I want to I want to node and bam, you just have one if if it could do keys and that would be wasn't a perfect solution wasn't

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the whole point of of green light that there was a cloud element that would stay kind of like a watchtower that would stay online and then will receive your key send, but it can't send anything and then the minute you fire up your, your green light portion that it then connects to that Watchtower? Wasn't that the idea that I misunderstand that?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, let me like, I don't know if the what I don't know if it's the Watchtower concept came through or not. But the idea is that as soon as you Yeah, when when you when a payment was coming in, it would spin the node up, except the payment and then and then pass it through, right?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Yeah, I do. And the only issue right now is to use green light, you have to sign up and get a certificate. And I don't know how accessible that will be for the average user I want, I'm gonna find out. Because that would be really, really great. But it's not just a plug and play solution yet.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Because I mean, that that would apply to peer tube as well, because you're in a tube. I mean, you could just, like spin up, spin up a node and then you know, you're it's like, it's not your keys. I mean, you're not managing anything. It's all on the user side.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Mm hmm. Yeah, I'm waiting for the day. I can get rid of my my Raspberry Pi note, because I just don't want to I just don't have the time for it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I mean, my channels have been messed up for a month now. And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I can't let me help me help you. I can help you

Dave JonesDave Jones

purchase index channel. It won't. It's not in there offline all the time. Yeah, it's broken. Oh, yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

No, that's but you're still on the Umbral.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I'm on the umbrella. Yeah, because it's my podcast rig. Broken the doing too many things on one box roll here.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I have no idea. I had problems with Umbro and torx. And that always seemed to be

Dave JonesDave Jones

I'm not on tour. I'm on. I'm on clarinet, clarinet. I got a clarinet channel to you. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I don't know. It's broke. It's broke. is broke. All right, anyway. RPP you are a man of many talents. I appreciate you.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, this Yeah, that's a pretty that's a pretty badass feature. Alex, you're on top categories?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Oh, absolutely.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Because, I mean, I think we're there. I mean, think we we were at this point where we need so we've got we've got music medium now. And obviously other mediums, audiobooks, all this kind of stuff with film. So the, the iTunes categories, they're just not sufficient anymore. Because you need you know, if you're going to be looking for music, that's, you know, a specific genre. This, the, the limited set of Apple categories are not going to help you much at all. So we I mean,

we're gonna have to have something. And I mean, I guess I guess I can say it this way. I mean, like, it seems like there's just to lay it out as best I can for for the uninitiated here that we've thrown this tag around for what a year and a half, two years, something like that. Three, yeah, three, some kind of category tag. And I mean, you could do to me, it really comes down to we need I don't see a difference between reusing the podcasts reusing the RSS

category tag. But let me look at let me let me lay it out this way. You got three options. You could literally hijack the iTunes category tag itself and start sticking stuff in there this noncompliant To me that's completely No, no way. Not gonna do that. I think that will be cause mass confusion. And it's not right. Somebody recommended using the RSS 2.0 category tag itself. Honestly, that's the spec is confusing to me. Because it's got all these references to like a domain attribute and a

taxonomy link back in all this stuff. I think that tag is weird. And I don't like it. Well,

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

those are same issues hijacking the iTunes tag because we don't know, what would break. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

no, I agree. That's great. Yeah, yeah. I agree with you. Because if, if we don't fully understand this tag and how it's being used, well, then you can't just go in and start doing Wild West stuff with it. No, I agree. And then you have. So and and that's not really in podcast feeds anyway. So you're going to feed generators and have to make a change, regardless. So you might as well go with podcast with a podcast, category tag, podcast, colon tag category or something like that.

And so there's not you know, so then, so then I think that's where we landed in, it's like, okay, who, who wears these? Where these categories are gonna come from? Are they going to come from some preordained list somewhere? Are they going to be free form? And I think, I think we're all I think we're both in agreement. And James, and I think is also agreed in everybody who involved in the discussion, that pain, it really needs to be a free form thing, because we don't want to just

repeat, you know, redo the same. Here's a master list that somebody else is in control of.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Yeah, and I understand. I mean, the main argument against it is how do you know which categories to surface? And I think my there's, there's two? I have two answers to that, I think. And the first is, I think we should think of them as hashtags. Just because that seems to be the most user translatable idea to what we're actually doing. Whether or not you call them categories, topics from the name doesn't matter.

But I think, I think it's a concept people are used to, and it will directly translate to some of the other other things we have going on, such as activity pub idea, and people already used to being able to subscribe to a hashtag, and from you know, Twitter, Mastodon, or whatever. And secondly, I'm going to the discovery has to be done. But I think we can do it in a way where you could build it and do the the podcast and the index API to show me the trending, trending hashtags,

trending categories or something. And also, the pod ping service I'm working on for, it's gonna have a unified push and what push notifications for apps. I want to be able to do notifications by hashtag as well. So we could we could have some kind of decentralized, cool method of apps being able to discover what hashtags are available and what's what's trending.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Yeah, good. Well, yeah, yeah. I think people are confused. I think calling it a category just causes too much confusion. It's like the yahoo, yahoo keywords like, I get it. But you don't have to, you don't have to use them as categories in your UI, right? You can use them as small like filters.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Or labels. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. How would you think how would you call them? Oh, really? Oh, yeah. That's right. Because they had the topics thing in the, in their dinned directory. Did you see Nathan's post about using the Wikimedia identifiers?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Yes, and I'll be honest, I think it's, I don't hate the idea. But if it gets too complicated for the average user, including me, it might be better for you know, a host or, or whatever to do it behind the scenes. And we would just use natural language as it is. And I think I think it would be important to like have a language attribute to and then if people want to provide a service that has that translates them to the wicked data identifiers that they gave me might be a better idea.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Sort of translating the translation in both ways. What

Adam CurryAdam Curry

exactly is the wiki data stuff? What is that? I didn't see the post.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

If How do we explain it? I would call it a data scientist way of analyzing natural language. Okay, it's basically a way of classifying words using a human made agenda. hers don't

Dave JonesDave Jones

fully understand it. And no, I don't I don't understand you. But I read a read the linked the linked URL. And I thought, I thought I understood it until about like this third section down. And then I like I don't I clearly don't know what this means. So I can't. Yeah, I don't know. I

mean, it looks. I mean, it can't it can't be that difficult. I think I think the idea was to use like, to put some sort of guardrails around the possible, you know, the possible values that could be in these in these, I'm just going to call them topics just to keep us all sane instead of categories. When you have a seed, then I don't want to get caught up in naming whatever. So like, the, the topic names, just

Adam CurryAdam Curry

just call them what they are. They're hashtags that the whole world understands what a hashtag is.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay, hashtags. So well, Nathan says about deduplication. Yeah, and I think that's where it was. It's about guardrails. And so if you can, if you can classify the possible values that would be contained in these things, sort of, like, I guess you could, my understanding through reading through that document was that it was sort of like a Dewey Decimal System. For possible words, that go with that go into a overall like taxonomy of, of things. So it's like, okay,

music. If you're in the music, if you're in the Music Section of the Dewey Decimal catalog, the taxonomy would say, Okay, now your subcategories are going to be or your your sub, you know, indexes are going to be metal, rock, easy listening, these kinds of things. But then if you switch over to the literature, category of the wiki, data identifiers, or whatever, now you're talking about, all of a sudden, now yours now your subclasses are English literature kill, you

know, Celtic literature, the ancient Chinese literature. So I think, I think that's really the idea. If you had sort of a premade list of those things that you could like seed with, which I don't, I don't think it's a bad idea to have like something that automatically some sort of hybrid approach where you have this automatic suggestion sort of table to help guide people to the thing that they're looking for,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is that external service that would just make sense for that to exist?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Again, I mean, if we all agreed on the same sort of bootstrap list, it doesn't prevent anybody. Do you agree with this? Alex? It doesn't. I mean, if we had something like that, it wouldn't prevent anybody from putting new things into it. It's just that it sort of like, it's trying to guide you towards an agreed upon value.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Yeah, I mean, I would, I would argue that all languages, but it doesn't have to be part of the spec. You could just have it you can have lists.

Dave JonesDave Jones

LSVT. What you mean? Yeah, yeah, you, we don't have to define where these things come from. But there could just, it could just be an agreed upon like, this is which you can use the list that you want. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, I think we're on the right track. How do you if you're going to implement like, imagine you're implementing this in peer tube? What do you think? What do you think it would look like from a UI perspective?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

I actually did, and then I removed it. We already have tags in peer tube and you could just type in whatever you want.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And does auto auto complete with something that already exists?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

I don't remember I haven't looked at it in a while but you just edited the video and there's a whole you actually got the column tags if you look at Dave's live live channel right now. He actually he literally has PHP podcasts, index podcasting, podcasting, 2.0 and rust shadows

Adam CurryAdam Curry

are really dumb tags that you can play using those tags.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You can't or not a creative

Adam CurryAdam Curry

messing with you brother.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay, cool. Well, maybe maybe that's what we go for. Maybe we say podcast, maybe this maybe the name of this tag

is podcast. And then you know, just for just for giggles here and then we and then we start because what I feel like it's what's going to happen here is the the first people that implement this obviously appear to have already got it but you're going to make gets more exposed and stuff is done like is from a hosting perspective the first people that are going to go into this is going to be like Dobby das and wave lake that have music I mean that I'm sure they're gonna probably jump

on this pretty quick because they need and Steven B because they need they they're really that's really the place where there's the most pain right now but then this is applicable to way more than just that but as far as like immediate use case this is the this is the place where it's needed the most because it's it's really a discovery issue

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

I think we all want to look for music.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, yes. Speaking of music Oh, shall we play a little ditty?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, who chose this day? It was a you Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I mean I'm sorry Alex I should have asked you. English subterfuge unless unless you want to give me a name right now and I can look it up real quick and I got nothing Yeah, I

got nothing. I'm going to be on this guy's podcast I think this week or next week because he reached out to me and a number of other music podcasts are very upset respectful I want to make sure he was very respectful but very upset about playing songs and podcasts including his and using compression and it's it's very familiar complaint to me because ever since am radio that your song will not sound the same as when you mix it in the

studio. And if you listen to today's top 40 radio they even spin up the songs add some reverb Believe it or not to and and compress it and a lot of that was done early on because the harder the more compressed and the harder the sound is the more output you get out of the transmitter literally but he was like He's really upset and so I'm looking forward to to discussing that with him and meanwhile I want to play one of his songs lots of compression here on the show if I have not

turning off my compression he's Jimmy V he's from the valley verse This is sweet time on podcasting 2.0 Fall God forever

Unknown

so bad all the sweet thing good luck suddenly it happened Sweet Nachi everybody Y'all

Adam CurryAdam Curry

if you are not using a modern podcast app, what is wrong with you go and get a modern podcast app that does the magic wallet switching the super chapters that are also known, because any stats that you were streaming anything you boosted during that song, go to the artist, we switch the wallets and everything goes to Jimmy V. And whatever splits he has, in his system. He male, he gave me this analogy. He said, Imagine, I build a hot rod in my garage. And then I take it to your car

show. And then you spray paint all over it. And I said, let me let me give you this analogy. You come to my car show I take it onto the track. I get it really muddy. And then everyone's flocking to your stand to see how beautiful your hot rod is. Remember when you go home and you say you you bought the record, he was like oh man, this there's all this stuff I'd never heard before. That's because radio compresses stuff. And there's reasons for that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's I mean, I think this not a great analogy. I don't think we spray painting cars. No, no,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

but But what we're doing is we're changing the universe is what's happening here. This I mean, we have 20 shows now I think that at least I know of music shows Yeah 20 music

Dave JonesDave Jones

shows while the wave wave like themselves are and they got a music Yeah, they

Adam CurryAdam Curry

got a music show out. Yeah, Powell man is Yeah, I was listening

Dave JonesDave Jones

to booty call or whatever that was that Mike Newman put out earlier booty call. No, that's not it. It's some though.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's a mood wave.

Dave JonesDave Jones

booty shaking.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I haven't heard it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, there's a bunch of stuff out there. That's why we need this like we need because, like saw like lightning thrashes. Yeah. Homegrown handle show, he has an easy way to find metal. Yes, exactly. Find the middle. Right

Adam CurryAdam Curry

now. You know, the influx of the inflow of music is manageable enough. So every week I'll go in, I'll listen to all the new stuff. Find your stuff. I go into split kit, which are ln beats, but split kit is easy, because then I just start building my songs. I want a little list. And it's chronological order. So right at the top, it'll show you the most recently added and I think now wave Lake is adding them automatically. I think. I don't know that. Yeah, I think you're

right. Yes. So Mike Newman is on break. And he's got a reprieve. Yes, he does. And I've just listened to him. You know, just click on the artist, then sometimes just one song. Sometimes it's a couple of songs. And you know, I just can't it's like needle dropping and like, oh, okay, like this. Click, I'll add that to my list. And just go on. Now, sometimes I can see like, if it's, what's an example today to go into music, and you'll see something like, you know, awesome techno snazzy

songs. I'm like, okay, I can probably just check it for a second. I might not have to listen to all of them. That's

Dave JonesDave Jones

just in and out. I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

mean, yeah, it's just not for me. The door. Yeah. Oh, by the way, Abby Muir who I played last week she's not from Sweden. She's from Australia. I was notified

Dave JonesDave Jones

were you notified by sweet Yes, we did. The Australia

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the Australians called yeah they were pissed

Dave JonesDave Jones

let me she's number one on the

Adam CurryAdam Curry

number one gets indexed out top how many what is the top what are the what is the top today's top two honoree today? Of 203? Yes, but here I see something I don't know yet. The flat dancer the unusual cats project so I love these cats project is a usual usual the usual Yeah, I know. Alan see Paul. He seemed number four serenity. As I told him, that's another instrumental track. I played his track. He put on Instagram he said perspective. Two weeks on value for value. I

made more money than 10 years. Perspective. Yeah, instrumental than he plays instrumental last time I played an instrumental song on top 40 was Axel F with a theme from Miami Vice or Yan, holler. Whatever, Yan Hummer? Yeah, yeah, no, it was Beverly Hills Cop was Axel F. And then after that came on Hummer with theme from Miami Vice. That was the last time I played anything instrumental,

Dave JonesDave Jones

though, dude, you've got to put you've got to play some of this. The flat dancer thing. Like that's a pretty killer track, jazz or something? Yeah, like the usual cats.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, okay. I don't have I don't have it. Which one the flight

Dave JonesDave Jones

was played like this biggest puppy hitting the door just picking picking on it for a second.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Okay, I got you

Dave JonesDave Jones

to stand up bass is what that is.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Bom bom bom bom bom. Nice. Alright, cool.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's it. It's a mood waiting to happen.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Got it. That's a booty. shakin right there. All right, let's check that out for sure. For sure. I gotta do a boosted ground ball this week. Okay, yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Alex pod ping over activity pub. Does that fill you with the with, with dread? Or does that sound interesting?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Can you elaborate?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, I can. So I had this, I had this idea because I'm in my head is in activity pub mode right now. And I'm, I'm trying to get away from that. So they can get back to doing index work. But it's like, I'm just consumed with it. So I was thinking, if if pod pings were also deliverable over activity pub, then we could use activity pub as, as, as another medium to get in Pub Sub ability so that you could subscribe to something like to you could subscribe to the show.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

up on me. How about how about, can I just trip your mind? About subscribe to a hashtag? That comes through on pod ping?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. Okay, yeah, like that. You could, we could do that too. Like you say, if we combine them say, hey, you know, hashtag but so that you can say, okay, these shows I want to get pod pings for. And they would have like a custom activity po type object type for the pod pain. And it could serve as a sub subscription mechanism. Through the data bridge.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

The only issue I can see would be this is not globally deliverable. It's not like it's not it's not a global message bus, right. Some things could be missed. Maybe instances might start blocking things. I don't know if that's really relevant. Because if you follow something, that's all you would need. I have to think about it. But I'm not totally against the idea.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Can I Can I ask hey, that's all I need. For Alex to say. I'm totally against the idea. That's, that's the daylight I was looking for.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I need to ask a question day. Four. So publishing today's episode, what do I use as the route posts? Because I'm still a little confused. Anything, anything? Well, how does that how does that integrate them with people who are following the show?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay, so the latest version of the bridge will just take whatever is in the route, post, whatever's in the social interact tag URL. And we'll just put that as a link in the post. Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

god. Okay. Now I understand how it works. So we can just click right when you subscribe to the show. So you know at what is it 249966 Whatever it is at a P dot podcast index.org then when that pops up, it'll have a link and that's the and that's the link that I put in as the root post.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, and it can be linked to any activity. Okay,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

thank you all right. Now I understand like oh, well good. Well, this solves oh man love that. By the way. Lex Friedman is using pod ping turns out you know, Lex Friedman is huge. podcaster. So Andrew Brown Black Tiger. Yeah, the Brandon black. Andrew Gromit just posted on the on the social and he's a screenshot of Lex Friedman's URL, and it says pod ping uses pod ping equals true. Really? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Doesn't say where to get investigative investigate this.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Likes to show that I mean, yeah, these are interesting little tidbits. By the way. Andrew Gromit. I see your I see your boosts I see your tests boost their show. What

Dave JonesDave Jones

is it What's he cooking up?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I don't while he's he's he's still cooking up the podcast as well wonder what's the RSS feed? Let's take a look at his feed. What is he using?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, he's Oh no. Here we go. Yeah, no. Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

he's on Bloomberg. Bloomberg. Powerful. Read our press. Oh, how about that?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Todd delivering the good? Yes. Bang,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

bang. Alright, very cool. We go. Very cool.

Dave JonesDave Jones

What? What's new users pod things? Like cool. Todd. What's new on the pod pain front? Alex?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Well, nothing really. That's a good thing, right? Yeah, running. This version has been running for

Adam CurryAdam Curry

over a year. Now, what's the uptime? How many how many hours up to how many minutes uptime?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Well, Dave had to, actually there's no downtime, which centers on hive, technically, but they've had to do some updates, I think last year, but otherwise,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I actually rebooted everything about a month ago. But before then it had been like, I think a year while since that service.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

I'm really proud of that. It's so stable, and no one really even thinks about it, which is what you want guy

Adam CurryAdam Curry

precise, just stuff that works.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Yeah. So. But in reality, we do have to think about an update for the mediums, particularly, or the publisher. So if we want the publisher medium, or whatever we decide to call it. I think we're, we need to add that to pod ping. And then there were a couple others, I think, who wanted the, I can't I can't remember what it was. But there's a couple, there's a couple of meetings we have to add. And that's it. There's,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

like

Dave JonesDave Jones

course, or whatever. Yes, of course. That's

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

right. Okay.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So, sir de nonnamous, who created being at.io, which is basically he's ingested every transcript from no agenda, every show notes, because I published an OPML. All the image is he's got everything in there. And he has a search function. Hey, I gotta read it. Well, he's, you know, it's a search function. And, but it would be great to have some kind of large language model baked out or as they call it now extended? No, is it? Yeah, I think it's called extended

language model. This is a new hip term. So when he was when, when I published, so when I so what comes after the fact I publish the the transcript comes later. Right, I put a dummy file in and then a dummy file, and it put one chapter in. And then Dred Scott goes and does the chapters. And then after 30 minutes, or whatever, I upload the full transcript. And so I hit update. But I don't think when I hit the pod ping, does that just create an update? Reason code?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Yes, yes. And it won't. apps won't know that there's no update to the chapters without checking the zero. Right? I do I do have a solution for that. Okay. It's called if you go to the page or go to the pod pinning hive writer, GitHub. I think it's the the update, external reason code. And it basically, basically, the idea is to take a hash of the of the URL, and send a pod pain when you update something external to the feed, that note that notifies apps

that something has changes. So it would be chapters, images, transcripts, all the above Ah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

beautiful. Well, that's exactly the answer he's looking for. We just have to make it. So

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

that would be I'm all for doing that as soon as possible. If we agree to do it.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I would love it. Because that's, you know, there's just certain things that come after the fact chapters. You know, there's all kinds of different types of chapters that add even with the reflex service with the often disputed reflex service of adding a you know, putting the booths not at the table of contents, but into into a chapter marker. You know, that updates on the fly as well.

Dave JonesDave Jones

See, this is the update. exe. Yes. An indication that an existing RSS feed with a defined podcast good has changed externally available resource given good must be okay. Yeah. Yeah, this makes sense. Makes sense of

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

doing it that way. Is it woodworkers some some like IPFS as well. So I'm not trying to try and keep a future proof.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Nice.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, yeah, right. Okay. Yeah, this might Yeah, this makes sense. Yeah, we'll have to get it we're gonna have to get back to pod paying whenever, maybe, maybe, maybe timeline on that, for me would be to kind of get back into the after face seven, because then we can figure out if we, which published like which mediums we need, and then we can just revisit it and do it. Kind of hit that all at once. If you're ready for it.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Let's do it. Part three is my favorite subject.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is shall we thank thanks a few people. Oh, yeah, sure. I'm gonna run through some of the live boosts we've been receiving on my fancy new heli pad by the way Eric P P. It still shows the install was version Oh dot one dot 11 But it shows Oh dot one dot 10 on the interface just FYI little little bug feedback inside baseball bully steed 4444 Ah podcasting 2.0 homegrown hits variety show v Furby little promo there yeah 70 and 76 Freedom booths from blueberry I'm loving podcast

guru and the live value time split so cool. So very deeply legal. Enjoying some Jimmy V in the boardroom and there's Dobby das with 3000 SATs and what's he boosting from podcast guru as well boosting Jimmy V LIVE via podcast guru with live wallet switching 19 value recipients he really has 19 value recipients

Dave JonesDave Jones

you want to know why lb goes down? That's this blueberry that's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I wonder if that's that's that Jimmy V i don't have no we don't have 19 dogs so I guess he so we switched to 19 value recipients love it. Geez. Dred Scott 4567 from pod verse and he says love you Adam hashtag SATs back. Boost me boost me on cast thematic and I'll send you some back 8888 from a Chris You know, on pod verse with Alex gates on the

show. For those who are anti noster I challenged them to build a competing solution to nip 47 Pull requests 685 which allows any podcast player to push payment out info out into any wallet, including non custodial wallets. This includes keys and splits custom key custom value and any TLV records. LB is fantastic. But having backups is a good idea. Okay, Does anyone understand what that is?

Dave JonesDave Jones

No, no, no.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Nip 47 685 47

Dave JonesDave Jones

net 47 And what was the 685

Adam CurryAdam Curry

nostre wallet connect extensions?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh noster wallet connect okay describes a way for clients to access remote lightning wallet, their standardized protocol.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Don't Don't Don't get me started on Nastar. It's just

Dave JonesDave Jones

they think he's kind of want to

Adam CurryAdam Curry

see what happens when you poke the bear. All right, but

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

yes, it's just it's just a way of using centralized servers to publish HTTP endpoints. It doesn't solve anything new.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Moving on to blueberry with 6666 I'm happy to move on. It should be noted we have a severe overpopulation of goats in the greenroom. And we need your help all boost. A goats are getting dropped from 666 to six six this coming Monday on beyond the schemes. That's right fools. This is an ad Episode One

Dave JonesDave Jones

snip 47

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That's right fools episode 187 We'll see a fire sale on goats they've got to go okay and blueberry comes in with 17,776 That's shout out to Hey citizen for the tip on how to get lightning control going off the computer. Oh yeah, that is kind of cool. So be sent a video when a boost comes through then all of a sudden some lights flash in the studio. I like that. You saw those videos.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Did you see that Alex that he did you see what he posted?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

No, but I want to

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, he's using DMX protocol to fire off lights right? This is quite literally gonna be lit we got another crazy idea for new type of boosts So be watching for to debut on homegrown hit soonish Okay. Salty crayon comes in how do you boardroom with the road ducks 2222 from pod verse. How do you from the northeast corner of the Texas Hill Country the fountain split percentages are out of whack I don't have over

1,000% on my note for splits. This is this is something Dobby Das is working on with fountain to correct no errors on my E they're coming through break new flag release for Texas to the Biden administration F around and find out in the pipe go podcasting. Whoa. I saw a lot

Dave JonesDave Jones

of is a lot of drunk donations gonna It's Saturday,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you know it's a different crowd in the boardroom. It's like everyone came in their casual slacks you know, like came in jeans, little buzz, you know, like, hey, we coming in from podcast Guru 500 SATs from Sockeye the horse and cue another salty crayon with an Abby boost. Then there's a test boost from me and And I think well, there's one from five hours ago. So you have that one. That was a question a topic for Alex. So I think we can move it over to you, Dave.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay, well, let me let me hit some papers first, because we've got. I mentioned last week we lost a big donor. And yeah, I was I was incorrect, because, but Buzzsprout can't cancel their $500 a month donation. Because they were going to add a news monthly donation of $1,000. So

Adam CurryAdam Curry

we just got $2,000. From from bessborough. Yes. Sakala 20 is blade only Impala, guys, thank you so much. Yeah, that that. That really, that is big. Thank you. Yeah, that's a massive value that you're giving us there. And

Dave JonesDave Jones

congrats to them. Because that blog said the transcript tag was what?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, yeah, they brought it to the party for sure. Because

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think that was the first tag we worked on in the namespace. And it's because they were already trial running it when, when when the namespace was created, they were already trial running that tag with podcast with Xavier from podcast addict. So they were doing some testing with it. And they had, they had just kind of rolled it out the door. And then the namespace came along and they're like, Hey, let's just go ahead and put this into the namespace. Thank God since there Yeah, what

Adam CurryAdam Curry

was the wasn't chapters from a different namespace

Dave JonesDave Jones

chapters, we inherited the format from an app called Mac called podcast chapters for the Mac.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, yeah. Right. That's what it was. Yes. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We also the party's not over because of Marco Harmon. He's back with $500 again this

Adam CurryAdam Curry

man we are just hammering it with the value Thank you. And just because it was kind of slow the past couple of shows. So this is very welcome. And

Dave JonesDave Jones

I'm hoping that I'm hoping that another benefit of of Apple adopting 2.0 tags it's gonna be that that guy over cash Yeah, yeah. will become more comfortable with with doing these things as well. And so we'll get more broad adoption that

Adam CurryAdam Curry

he might want to, you know, surpass them by adding just the thought. We got

Dave JonesDave Jones

one we get one weekly pay pal from Travis halls. He says thank you $7.17 Thank you.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Thank you Travis.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Appreciate it gets a boost. We get 10,000 SATs. Yeah, me too. Nathan I get the Pocket Casts is there another one that said that they were going to be putting in a bunch of stuff and then they did that ever truly. Yeah, that's yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

They and they rolled out subscriptions for themselves for themselves.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Anonymous five 500 SATs as a great song that was for during the song last week all right. Yep, just listening send a 1776 through fountain and he says I need that Bill Gates AI clip boosting episode 163

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's published it's on it you can go to Bing it.io and look for Bill Gates and then look for Eclipse and you'll find it

Dave JonesDave Jones

Chris last oh this Chris from Jupiter broadcasting 68 848 through fountain he says great work guys really cooking with clean burning propane these days? Most appreciate it. Chris. Let's see who got 1701 through my from my Dale cast thematic. He says alternate feed tag.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes. Alternate feed tag. Boost. Alternate feed tag. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We're We're on it. Mike. I'm posting in the in the GitHub back in the namespace now. munei Gomez 4321 says through pod verse. He says you guys are making so much sass. Here's some more says

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah. Give me some sass. Give me some sass streams stream no SATs.

Dave JonesDave Jones

He's both been 1337 leet boost through cast Matic. He says, Could you make an API endpoint that returns a JSON hash of all the bucket like things where each object has a title as the key and a sub object with the URL and a description of what it is aka something like stats URL, this description URL, this other thing? Oh, okay. That's actually an

Adam CurryAdam Curry

what is that? I don't understand. So

Dave JonesDave Jones

he's wanting an A, he's wanting an endpoint in the API where he can record where you can request all the various bits of stuff that we published an object storage. They're just sort of like single downloads like a stats file is located here. The podcast, let the value provider stats page is here, that

Adam CurryAdam Curry

info endpoint. Yeah, it makes

Dave JonesDave Jones

sense. I can do that. Yeah. Because I've been looking for a way to make that stuff more easily, easily findable to Yeah. They make a note of that.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Info API endpoint.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes. Yeah, sure. Gene that sounds like a great idea. Cole McCormick 3333 through fountain he says the wave Lake talk is interesting. I just had an interview with an artist who considered wavelike to be posting his music on the Lightning Network. Had to lay him in on the podcasting revolution noster was never a thing in my opinion. So hopefully they stopped talking about it and be a modern music host similar to pod home. Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that is kind of my dream.

Dave JonesDave Jones

At just feel like honestly, with with all of the Bitcoin based companies I feel like nostra has just been a gigantic distraction of time and money.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

There was a interesting interview on the power the Phantom phantom power business hour, I think and they had they had on Jay 50 fives wife, who does marketing. And it was kind of interesting, because it became more and more apparent that you know that they're really a solution looking for a problem. Yeah, and everyone sees it, you know, the Bitcoin thing is just, it's just like, you know, it opens up a wallet when

you click on the on the ZAP thing. It's like, okay, you know, can't we do that on Twitter too?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Let's liquid this liquid. You said Alex is like, it's not bringing anything new to the table. It's just the same old thing.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And so Domus has 25,000 users that download I don't know if that's active users. It feels when I look at Nasr. It feels like 5000 tops. Just doesn't doesn't feel like much of me. And then the the unique selling point is, you know, censorship resistant. Okay.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But I would argue that I would argue that activity Pub is more censorship resistant than Nasri all day long. I mean, yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I would not take the other side of that argument.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, because you're right. It's because it made us centuries, like, like Alex said, is centralized HTTP. So

Adam CurryAdam Curry

this age has spoken.

Dave JonesDave Jones

This age has repeated what Alex said. Gene been 111 SATs says I'm digging the sound and feel of this song. Nice find Adam.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, that is that Abby again? Probably Yeah, probably. So she's already at the top of the chart.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I tried Bootsy gene, again, 2222 pieces, I tried boosting about value blocks and broke stuff because it was over 700 characters IE, here's a link to the content of the original boost, instead, you're gonna get a link to something.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Here we're gonna have there's limits to what you should be doing in boosting Graham's. He's the people who sang the same gene being is the kind of guy who sends me a one gig movie through email. Cool, man, look at it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Gene bean has a lot to say say, I wonder I wonder if this is too long. So speaking of value blogs, what became of making an API endpoint that provides a version of my RSS feed enhanced with value blocks shown via podcast or wallet? Did we say we were going to do that? I don't

Adam CurryAdam Curry

think so.

Dave JonesDave Jones

He said something about training pot home and we'd love for them to be able to import my fee that doesn't have oh, I know what he's talking. I know what he's talking about. And he's talking about like what we're having. Where for podcasts to quality if you wanted to move the splits for the old episodes wouldn't be there. Yeah. Oh, right. We're we're gonna export it out. There yeah, I forgot to do that. And I don't like this episode is hashtag Dave to do. I got home. Yes, seriously, I got

homework now. Was the XML.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Maybe we should put that hashtag in the item. Oh, there's actually every episode.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You're right. Because every episode, my list gets longer. I think this is this is correct. It will ruin your list though. Yes, I'll just ignore it like I always do. 2022 Jacob, do pod verse. Fantastic idea to use time splits and through them direct messaging to advertisers.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, yeah, it worked. It looks like looks like pod pod news. Got more advertising just keeps on going with the with Hindenburg.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, Franco, that's Franco Celerio for cast ematic is sent 500 says he says Girls Rock.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Okay, Frank. I replied to him, actually, that showed up his reply. I replied to him in helipad. Alright, so yes, here's the 1000s That's yes they do.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You're out of control now

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm sending money back send me money I'll send it back.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Now you're gonna you're this is just another way for you to lose first to send lots of money to people.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I love it so much fun. Franco again

Dave JonesDave Jones

15,000 SATs this time he says Love and SATs thanks Franco. Oh, and we got a we got comic strip blogger to deliver an order 34,000 new fountain he says howdy bros, David Adam. Ah, no agenda social, a little server that could until it couldn't shared memes, please. That's like saying you contributed to culture before wedding chain meals. But hey, thanks for the memories nodes into social you'll be remembered like that one song everyone skips in their

playlist but never deletes what now? fallacy is be just three letters on X formerly known as Twitter for cartoons without baboons or visit his blog at www dot CSV dot lol exclamation point. Yo CSV

Adam CurryAdam Curry

All right. CSV and we have a too late booster grams coming in from Nathan g 2222. Dave came here to build a bridge and work on phase seven. And he's all Outerbridge. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And I've never had a bridge I've always got more bridge

Adam CurryAdam Curry

and DS laughs came at DS last he's my man DS laughs He's he's in the valley verse Valley for value music little cool little bits of show mixes for no agenda. 1000 SATs he says Since leaving my corporate jobs this is the only board meeting I can sit through. Much love to the podcasters. Understandable. All

Dave JonesDave Jones

right, Lincoln sent a note in his 20,000 says that he says well regarding question for Alex forgot to edit my boost amount. But I don't see a question for Alex anywhere. Do you? Yeah, I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

have it here. Hold on a second. Hold on me scroll down. Question topic for Alex. to opine on. The use of a specific boost bot has been contentious. Boy, Alex get ready. As it has been. And I know we all know Alex. I love Alex. But I know that he's right. Get Rudy Alex, the use of a specific boost bot has been contentious as it is seen as a hack and not aligned with open source and decentralization.

Instead, it will be preferable to share boost messages and amounts to an open protocol like activity pub for transparency, interoperability and sustainability in the podcasting ecosystem. Oh, podcasting

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

found on fountain boost. Some comments? Yes, I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

think that's what the what is meant they could

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

they could publish to the activity problem. They don't. That's all there is to it. And also, if you

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, yeah, that's another they can do. So tell me about what yeah. Tell me about that. Alex, because you're messaging him up at the about that earlier about playlist?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Yeah. Typically, we should probably check again. But my understanding is they don't make their they don't publish their playlist as RSS feeds, which would be really easy to do. And that would allow the players to be shared across to apps.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, you know, what's interesting, is we're seeing both fountain and true fans kind of emerging as platforms, which I'm, I have thoughts about because, you know, there's so there's no take true fans as the example. Sam Sethi says, Oh, look, your publisher feed is here. And so I have not published anything. He has made a reasonable estimation of which shows I am the publisher of and they show up in their platform, and I can go into some back end admin and I

can change those. And I think they are exportable or they will be exportable as an RSS feed. It's just interesting. Interesting how he is in I think he actually calls him that calls true fans now a platform. But the the playlists what I don't like about what I've seen in the playlist on fountain is they are the getting a split that doesn't really go through the split system.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, it's like an internal allocation believe so yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Which is not correct. Really the transparency that we desire? Because I think podcast I think music playlists are going to be very big. We have a medium and we have a medium type forum. Is that music L is that a playlist? Is it music? L is that what it was? Yep. Yep, music L so publishing

those back would be great. And then and then put the split in from the person who created it so they can they can start Uh, as more apps can ingest this, the artists do better and your quote unquote customer gets money back into their, into their wallet on fountain. So yeah, exploitability would be nice. I agree. And we

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

could do it for clips to say yes. So they live clips. They could publish them if they wanted to.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, I think we should nominate you to their board. I'm gonna buy some shares and put you in as an activist investor.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

Oh, that I'd have to like Master so. Wow.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

will take over. Do we have any? Any one offs? David?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes and monthly. Definitely do. drips got $15 Big Bruce Wayne of podcasting. He's got Michael Kimmerer $5.33 Thank you, Michael Jordan. Dunnville $10. Think Jordan. Kevin Bay $3.43 from the monthly endowment fund. Yes. James Sullivan. $10. Christopher Raymer $10 Shawn McCune $20 Thank you. Shawn Cohen glotzbach $5. Michael Gagan $5 In Charles current $5 group,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

very good group thank you all for supporting podcasting 2.0 The podcast is the gateway to your support for the entire project. Everything goes towards servers etc David Adam take nothing we will give away some liquidity if you need it, if you need a channel from because we definitely want to support people using other types of wallets. Just to decentralize more and more hit me up Adam at podcasts index.org and mccurry.com If you need liquidity happy to help you out

people like no I don't know where to get liquidity. This is what we're here for. It's all on the node it stays there for that very reason. You can go to podcast index.org down at the bottom there's two red donate buttons one for your on for the massive amounts of unchained Bitcoin people have been wanting to send us and never do. And the other one is for your Fiat fun coupons for PayPal, we really appreciate all of our

supporters. And appreciate you Alex gates for all that you have done since pretty much day one Haven't you been here from day one? I forgot what When did you come into our into our orbit?

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

I was a little late. I started the episode 2021 Oh, really after after I sort of know genitive actually, that's kind of when I wanted to make the podcast into an oil fields. And that's kind of when I started with Dave was mostly about the alternating closure and I fixed it

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, I gotta fix it gotta fix what he's doing.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I mean, it's most less mostly how this goes. I have something than an Alex fixes pretty much the way this this. We

Adam CurryAdam Curry

appreciate you very much brother for all all that you're doing for for the project and for podcasting because it really is you making a huge difference in the world. A lot of people take it just take it.

Alecks GatesAlecks Gates

I just want to build the apps I want to use. So what's all this?

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's how you get the best stuff.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Sure is. Brother Dave, thank you so much. Appreciate you. And thank you both for for coming to the board meeting on Saturday. Thank you everyone else in the in the board room for being with us. And we'll have a regular regular board meeting next Friday. So please join us there. Thank you so much Gent.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yep. Thanks, man. Happy happy. This. It's been a good week.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It hasn't been it has been a good week. Everybody. Congratulations on the progress. It has been a good Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think Alex is right. I think it's valid. I think I think the thing with Apple was validating for for everybody in the project.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

They said they said the big boys will never come in. We showed them didn't wait. See you next week on the board meeting till then adios.

Unknown

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