Episode 164: Let's Get Local - podcast episode cover

Episode 164: Let's Get Local

Jan 19, 20242 hr 5 min
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Episode description

Podcasting 2.0 January 19th 2024 Episode 164: "Let's Get Local"

Adam & Dave Reveal Phase 7 and Localize the Fedification

ShowNotes

We are LIT

Wavlake enters the room

Fedification

Andrew's PWA is boosting

Sam's plea for activity streams

Dashboard changes for associating new feeds with current ID's

Phase 7

Phase 7 - The Plan · Podcastindex-org/podcast-namespace · Discussion #554 · GitHub

Boosting for the Big Knob

New Outlook Decried as a "Surveillance Tool for Targeted Advertising" - Thurrott.com

Ai Action item list

-------------------------------------

MKUltra chat

Transcript Search

What is Value4Value? - Read all about it at Value4Value.info

V4V Stats

Last Modified 01/19/2024 14:50:22 by Freedom Controller  

Transcript

Adam CurryAdam Curry

podcasting 2.0 for January 19 2024, episode 164 Let's get local. Well hello everybody welcome once again to the official board meeting a 5.0. Except no alternatives. If you want to know what's going on in podcasting, it's happening right here. While it's happening here. It's happening in podcast index.org It's happening on the namespace. It's happening in podcasts index dot social, we are the only boardroom that

moves in phases. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who builds bridges for anyone to cross say hello to my friend on the other end the one and only Mr. Day you fired up today. Oh, come on. I mean, we have to differentiate ourselves from all these other podcasts about podcasts.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, this starts off, you know. Hey,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

hey, welcome. Welcome your way. Well, how was How was your week? Exactly? Hey, how was your week? Yeah. Hey, are you in the podcast Hall of Fame yet? Dave Jones?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Not yet. You shouldn't be should be. I've got another 10 years

Adam CurryAdam Curry

in the future Hall of Fame. You should you totally belong there.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Totally waste says you're not Eric. PP says we're not lit. Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

we're not lit. You know why? Because I didn't hit the lit. Oh, that's why. Sorry about how that works. I was distracted by all the awesome music and that's what it was when I second

Dave JonesDave Jones

your your pet. Your status is still pending.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I know. I know. I'm a pending full. I'm a pending fool. Okay. No wonder

Dave JonesDave Jones

I didn't get I'm sorry, the AP bridge.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I suck. I suck the cam. Sorry. It should be working now. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We keep piling on.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That's the worst. It happens at least once a month. Once a month is happens. I mean, there's so many things to think of. No, I gotta connect the split kit. I gotta set the new. Set the right title on the streaming software. I've got to make sure I'm not jumping in on people who are just late on the stream. So many things to think of

Dave JonesDave Jones

our job. You have a hard job

Adam CurryAdam Curry

and I wouldn't say that's true. At all. It's not even a job. I've for 16 years. I've not had a job. I just I just do I have a calling.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, what is not a hobby? No,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

no, it's a calling. It's a calling. It's a call Hello boardroom. We are live and lit. Which means everybody is in the if you're if you're a part of podcasting 2.0 Hopefully you have an app that to bring you into the boardroom or you know what we're talking about was

Dave JonesDave Jones

yesterday only sat on a booster.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, that felt good.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Let me let me give you give you an update from the what would you call this the the brave new world? Oh, there we go. I see. We're okay. The brave new world of what the brave new world of all electric heat. Oh, feels directly in our homes anymore. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Alex, what is it? I mean, you might as well be mining Bitcoin, probably. It

Dave JonesDave Jones

blows chunks. I mean, it is not fun. So, the Burkman Birmingham, Alabama.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Now, what did what we had 11 degrees. past couple of days in Texas. What did you have?

Dave JonesDave Jones

So rough, roughly the same? We had 13 on Tuesday morning. 13 we had 13 on Tuesday. So silver 15. On Tuesday, we had 13 on Wednesday. Yeah. We get one day of of warm up. And now tomorrow morning. It's going to be again 15 Yeah, we get the sun in another morning in the morning after that is going to be again 15 degrees. So, you know, our our house is like 130 years old.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm sorry to hear that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's the bones of this house are fantastic. I mean, like, you know, it I mean, it's every bit the sturdy, you know, thing that you would think it is? But there's not a lick of insulation anywhere. And right, right, right. The so we went to these mini split, like multi head mini split units about five years ago, multi

Adam CurryAdam Curry

head mini split units. Is that a sex toy? I'm not sure what that

Dave JonesDave Jones

is. It can be depends on how you use it. What exactly a little higher off the ground to sit on but I mean, you could you can make it work if you really want it. Okay, but So, do you know what is the minimum Blood unit is basically a it's a heat pump, but it has you see these things all over? Well, they're very popular now. But you see them all over Japan? Well,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the heat pumps are the are the new climate change mitigation technology?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, yes. Your pure electric, you know, all electric heat. Yeah. And they

Adam CurryAdam Curry

basically don't work is what I keep hearing. Well,

Dave JonesDave Jones

you're, so we're good. And because we, the way this thing works is you have heads in each head and each head unit in each room. And there's, there's like zones, you know, right. So you can have different zones be different temperatures and each, so the four might have four head units attached to one outside compressor into the compressor outside. And it's a it's air conditioning during the summer heat during the winter. And all it does, it's got a thing called a four way

reversing valve. So during the winter, instead of taking the heat out of your house, it takes the heat out from outside and dumps it into your house. It's a great, it's a great concept and it's during the summer, it saves us hundreds of dollars a month, right? The problem is, usually if you think it through, you're taking the heat from outside so your your inside coil in in a heat situation, your inside coil in the unit in your house, is

now you know, 140 degrees. Your outside unit is now freezing is now dumping all the cold out. And so it's going to it's going to ice up and freeze. So it has to go through a defrost cycle a couple of times an hour and when that happens ever the whole thing shuts off. Yeah, it reverses itself back to air conditioning mode to heat the outside coil to melt the ice then switches itself back to heat mode and begins to function like a heater again. Yeah, this this is this 10 to 15 minutes of

defrost cycle in an old house with no insulation. Yes, socks is a killer, especially when you're winning. So if you're down if you're like, we're good down to like 30 about 30 degrees. It be lower than 30 it starts to drop off. Then if you get into the teens, you're toast. Yeah, I mean like I hope they're not toast

Adam CurryAdam Curry

actually,

Dave JonesDave Jones

you're you're not frozen popsicle. I woke up so we're in they run all the time constantly. We're running space heaters. My power bill is like $35 a day right now. Wow. And I woke up Wednesday and our bedroom was like 48 degrees. You

Adam CurryAdam Curry

know it is you could just be a real man and heat your house with 17 Terra hash of Bitcoin mining power Yeah, it

Dave JonesDave Jones

would only cost me $28,000 No.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well we have I think we have $9 a kilowatt 99 nine cents a kilowatt hour. So I have the miners in the garage and the garage has been okay that mean without it would have been freezing and so that's how I heat the garage and in the

summer the garage is really warm it's really tasty. But we have a traditional H vac system and it also does not perform very well under 15 degrees then you have to put in on the fan has to be on constantly it starts to make this the sound the compressor makes this weird sound and it's apparently a good brand unit and I've had the guy overhead I remember last winter I had him over and he said oh yeah No they just don't work well under 15 degrees so what's the point

Dave JonesDave Jones

now is yours a gas furnace or is it he pulled its heat was that with gas backup?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah well with gas backup yes and we do have a appropriate well propane not gas we have a propane fireplace so that heats up the most of the house because it's all open floor plan that he's the house nice yeah that's okay we only had one one day where you know we woke up and it was 66 which is the temperature we have and we sleep and then it went down to 6360s are going down yeah going back up again. And then yeah

Dave JonesDave Jones

going back down into the teens again and this couple of days and I wake up this morning and the powers going nuts and lights going on and off thing of you know the that cycle issue they've been here forever finally just finally got an A power county guy to come out today is World squirrel on the line know that they found a bad neutral to the transformer. So yeah, he said they said it should be good to go right now because I was like, Oh man, if we if we lose power, We're so

screwed. You know? Well,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that's why I have fossil

Dave JonesDave Jones

fuel any day of the week. Yeah. Now please

Adam CurryAdam Curry

know it's a scam. You know, they they they say oh, it's gonna be freezing rain I saw no rain no precipitation at all I said this is not coming and of course it didn't but they jacked up the prices. So yeah, and and we have a generator and of course you know the generators to ensure that your power pretty much never goes out ever again which is what it did in power didn't go out to the generator just sitting there and waiting and waiting for it and you know for the big Apocalypse

it didn't come. But that's okay. It was nice and toasty inside. I eked out a booster gram ball, which I hadn't done in over a week, which I was really happy about.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Congratulations. It made me smile to see a drop.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Did you Did you listen to what he just watched it drop? No, I just watched your drop

Dave JonesDave Jones

and then a wind about

Adam CurryAdam Curry

something productive with your

Dave JonesDave Jones

resume I can of spray foam insulation trying to not die.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Anyway, there was all kinds of stuff going on. I think the split kids database provider had some issue and it was very hard troubleshooting everything. I feel like

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's going on, you know, code database on the split kit problem. Yeah, yeah, it

Adam CurryAdam Curry

came back up. Came back. Okay. It worked out. Okay. But just speaking. What are we drinking show beer.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, this? No, not at lunch break? No, this is a mineral water.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, what kind? What's

Dave JonesDave Jones

the calorie free? Is a polar seltzer does have natural flavors. It has no flavors. It says its premium and naturally calorie free. This is the flavor of this is original

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Jazz, but doesn't have the ingredients natural flavors, because this is the scam that I'm not okay, because that's anything but natural flavors. And

Dave JonesDave Jones

the ingredients say carbonated water pay go? Yeah. And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

following along with the podcast index dot social, I saw that wavelike all of a sudden, as you say, entered the room. What did they what did they do exactly.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But they they put channel level value blocks in. So they have you know, they've never had channel level value blocks. Everything's been at the episode level. And it had something I never fully understood. But Michael said, it just has something to do with the way they were just the way their system was built, did it it was kind of hard for them to do a channel level value block. And so you know, a try. I tried to make it work a little bit. I thought I could let me get back

into it and say the problem with that the rent. It's not a humongous problem for most apps, but there's a couple of apps like breeze that that really did struggle with this because Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, so the way that the way the podcast index database is set up with value box, there's two different tables, there's a value box, there's a a new there's a news feed value blog table, and then there's an item's everything a slash episodes value blocks table that have relationships.

And so the the way like, for instance, the way breeze works is it only shows value enabled feeds, you know, it's not a general purpose player, if it doesn't have a value. Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yes, I get it. I get it. I get it. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And so the is the, the API calls for searching value enabled feeds just wouldn't return anything because they're the item label. I got Yeah, they technically weren't value enabled feeds they were value enabled episodes. So that never really got resolved in so now that's all fixed so now breeze should have all the music.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So I was I was listening to the episode one of waveform that's the podcast. I'll do it yeah. But if you could look at that feed for a second because you know, I only look on grants that I'm looking at it podcast guru which has

always been spot on for me. And it has I mean I know they played at least two songs but and they said that you know they were splitting the the V for V but I see they have one value time split one but not the it seemed like they are having some issues with their value time and I also don't think they have their podcasts that is medium equals music. No I wouldn't be meeting equals music I'm sorry. That's wrong.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Anyway, can at the item level and they have a value

Adam CurryAdam Curry

they value time split in there. They have one now they have two or they do because I don't only one showed up maybe that maybe that something with

Dave JonesDave Jones

that two of them. Yeah. Is they both valid person?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Are they both valid because I only only one shows up for me

Dave JonesDave Jones

to thought was weird pod in pod verbs. Podcast

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Guru is what I was looking at

Dave JonesDave Jones

podcast. Let me check to see me check cast O Matic because KISSmetrics got a pretty Yeah, clear. That's what I mean clear and as you are.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And while you're while you're looking at that, now, I'm delighted that to do it that they're making these changes because they can be so important in the value verse, I keep saying using this word, they can be so important in the value verse by just being a great music host. Because they understand how to speak to artists and they have and they've got the vibe going. Then I was listening to them on the

podcast. And it was, I mean, there was a lot about noster and like it's just frustrates me because then I then I see Zebedee, Zebedee is the the big noster wallet guy, right. Zebedee does it biddies every day. Yeah, that's too and they're promoting music playlists on on fountain. So looks like some capitulation there.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Zebedee is Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

well the other got video ads running on on Twitter. Yeah. Which by the way, make make voting fountain. Well, it makes they make it look like honestly at first I was like is Aberdeen amended this looks like fountain but it's Zebedee now was anybody's anybody's liberties? Ebody somebody somebody's liberty?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. And the days they're

Adam CurryAdam Curry

back in? Yeah. And then at the very end, it says it has the fountain logo. Next, Zebedee. But they kind of make it look like you create a playlist on fountain you get paid.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, the you do, right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I don't know. Is that but that must be a fountain specific thing.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I think I think it is. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, I think it is now I think you do get a get a cut. And then I think Sam Sethi said that true fans is doing that too. If you make playlists,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

okay, that's me get a cut. But then can I subscribe to that playlist? In a different app? Or is that only is it only that I don't know when that true fans see that? That's where I'm like, oh, maybe no, make it available. So you can share it with everybody. Otherwise, you're kind of making the Spotify mistake. Spotify thought they could keep it all but you need the whole ecosystem.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Now this is interesting. Steven bass as we found out Zebedee doesn't work in Florida because of state regulations. How is is that based on Geo IP? Do you know I think

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it works. But you can't you can't take you can't take SATs out of Zebedee. I think I think I think it works.

Dave JonesDave Jones

This is so messed up. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, yes. Correct. is messed up. Absolutely. That's really in Manhattan, New Hampshire. You can't transfer sets. That's it. Yeah. But you can bet you can send them right. You can use the wallet to send just can't transfer it out of the wallet into something. Yeah. Oh, you can't boost. Wow. Wow,

Dave JonesDave Jones

this is that's crazy. I had no idea that there was that they have to be doing Jeep geolocation. Well, to

Adam CurryAdam Curry

be honest, who needs Florida? Come on, which is

Dave JonesDave Jones

the appendix of the United States. Hanging that's not doing much. That's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

messed up. Oh, that's interesting.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Um, I guess VPN would work.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Maybe? Maybe?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't know. It as weird.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, that's that's a that's a that's like, a non starter almost. That's weird.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. Because I mean, it doesn't seem to be the case without be. No.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, they're in Germany. Tell they got a whole whole different thing going on there. I will run into these problems. There's no doubt about it. But But anyway, the point being the music stuff feels like it's working. You know, it's like people are drawing closer. I love seeing wave Lake, doing something that makes it better. And I can only presume they're doing more. I'm just not feeling the heat from noster I'm just

not feeling it. I'm not glad I'm granted. I'm a little biased because we follow Jay 55 on the on the mostre bridge through podcasts index dot social. And it just seems like he's the only guy I know he's not. He's the only guy and he's basically building everything. under that app, everything, you know, the database, the search, it's all in one app. And that's it. Unless you have that app, you don't have any of the functionality. He's like, it's like an app and a relay in one.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's the noster is just a, it's it's hanging on by a thread. If enough Domus goes, it's over. Are you sure? Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I mean, you say that I just don't know. I just don't know.

Dave JonesDave Jones

How many. I guarantee you that. 90% of the people who are on noster are also also on Twitter. Oh, well, because and

Adam CurryAdam Curry

telegram that's where they have a telegram group to discuss to discuss developments. So yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It seems like a fun hobby for them. No, that's what it seems like. It seems like a fun hobby for Bitcoiners to try to build this thing, and that's fine. But it's not I don't see this thing having seen I have no I have no confidence that noster will still be around five years from now.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

In a way it's kind of the same issue that activity Pub has is no activity Pub is universally seen as the mastodon thing. And, and the the social network noster is seen as what noster is, even though noster clearly can be much more universal login. You know, there's there's a lot of benefit to some of that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

When we ran in, you know, we ran into we've hit we've hit the first problem with the whole nostre thing. Right? You know, this week is so Alex Gleason is Jills. He's working on nos. He's the one that built the monster bridge and all that. He's doing a lot of noster work and he was like, Well, how do I get podcasts? How do I get the value information so that we can zap podcasts when they come through the bridge? Right? Oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

oh, wow. Wait a minute. So so we're going from the podcast index, to the activity pub bridge to the nostril bridge, through the nostril bridge sexy. Okay, that's super interrupt, except when it when it comes out the other end. On the Nasir bridge, we've we lost everything. We the resolution is very low because we don't have splits. That's

Dave JonesDave Jones

it. And that's where it all falls apart is because you so you have a you have a podcast with six splits in it, different people getting paid. You can't there's no way to zap that. You can't. It just all falls apart. They stick because To my knowledge, they still have no sense of what a true of a true split. And and all that stuff is just it's just a mess.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's so weird, because it I mean, I've seen the proposals. I've seen the what is it the spectrum proposal from GG?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, but see, that wasn't a real that was just an article saying we need this. Nobody's fully baked it yet. That in a way, that's not a central US solution. I mean, that you, you could say like, the prison thing is what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. And so there's been there's been there's been other things that are like a centralized prism service where you can send this thing to them, and they'll

they'll do some sort of splitting for you. But that's like a I mean, it's just a service, that's a product.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, but when the when the podcast comes through, take it to the bridge comes through the bridge, then goes to the master bridge, can't it take the payment information along and just translate those? I mean, yeah, you'd have to zap them individually. I guess that seems like the only way you could do that. Well, it's

Dave JonesDave Jones

all ln URL that see this. And this is another core problem with with with noster. And zapping and all this kind of stuff is it was built. It's built by the Ellen URL, people. So they've made a commitment to Ellen URL over Kison from day one. And so it's a more it's a more complicated that you can't just grab a note ID and send instant money you have to go through this handshake rigmarole of getting an invoice for every

payment you want to make. So there's this there's just not a they've felt like they've hamstrung themselves with with this dedication to Ellen URL. Where as if it was just a bunch of key sends a bunch of key sins. Yeah, that's easy. You just get a list of address and key send it right like literally the value block is what is all you need, and you can just lock it out. You can just pop pop up pop up, right

Adam CurryAdam Curry

because the ln URL that you have to have some interaction with the wallet you have to you have to say yes pay or Yes. Voice and then you have to enter the amount And then pay is that is that the that's the difference?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, you got to look at you got to resolve the address, make a call to the make a call to the Ellen URL layer on top of the node, ask for an invoice for the amount you're going to send, wait for the invoice to be generated, then do and then pay the invoice. So you have to ask the receiving party to give you an invoice before you before you can send the payment. So

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I saw on the namespace discussion, which I tried to stay away from because it's really bad for my health. Just anything, GitHub is like, I want to be there. And I saw there was quite a discussion about Ellen, Ellen URL PE and the this, this kind of flows into Phase seven, so we might as well get ready to talk about that. I saw Roy chiming in there was all kinds of discussion about how to handle the well known address.

Dave JonesDave Jones

No way. Did this happen. This must have happened yesterday.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I don't know. I mean, I might have been looking at something from from two months ago for all I know, let me see. namespace. Let me just take a look.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Because I love to comment in there about can we get some confirmation of Yep. Okay. I see. I missed the replies. Okay.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

See,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I had logged in a comment about in order to have

the lightning address in there. We need I just wanted confirmation of how apps we're going to handle paying through the lightning address or the keys and address using using Alby I just wondered if Okay, cannot tell, cannot tell applications that are going to like cast ematic that don't have a back end server and depend on albies API cannot tell Franco that he will now or in the future be able to rely on on Albea to do the keys and address resolution rather than having to do it on device.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So what I what I read here is that Roy was saying that the ln address spec should be extended to support multiple send options. So this seems like we're going into a little different realm that just something for the namespace for our namespace.

Dave JonesDave Jones

See, down

Adam CurryAdam Curry

at the bottom there.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Well, yeah, so I missed all these replies. And I'm gonna see in this for the first time,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

what you can parse that and immediately understand and tell me what's going on. I'm so disciplined.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Already immediately understand that the boomy from lb says no, they're not going to do that. They're not

Adam CurryAdam Curry

going to do what? Address Resolution? Oh, so it has to happen on the on the app on device on device, which is bad?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Well, you know, I mean, open to interpretation. That means are we losing people here? I mean, do we need to have a? Do we need to bring people up to what this means? Like? Esoteric discussion where people are like, What the hell they talk as opposed

Adam CurryAdam Curry

to everything else we do on this show? Okay.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Fair enough. No, no? Okay.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes, update us because it is part of Phase seven. This is we are now entering the hot namespace talk for and now it's time for some hot namespace talk. Do you want to just take him in order? I think this is number one, isn't it? Let me see what now you have an order here. Phase seven. Phase seven of the namespace? The we see? Well, it's number three on the list. But what since we're talking about it, number three of phase seven for the namespace is key send addressed.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay. The value in the podcasts value block, currently, where you define who's going to get paid. It defines the spec defines a value recipient. And the value recipient has a type. The only one available right now as a type of note is the type node right?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And then you can have as extra parameters the special key and the secret code. Yes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So you can have the public so there you have the you have the the node ID of the lightning address the lightning node you're sending the money to and an optional custom key custom value for routing if you're sending to a multiple wallet node provider like Alby your fountain or right whoever. Satoshi stream whatever so then, that's so essentially you have a an address, which has a long hexadecimal, it's like a BEC 32

or whatever that code is, which is your note interest. That's what is currently all that that's the way this all works. There's no resolving that happens. You're just, you're like, here's the note Id send it this mini SATs done. what's being proposed is, is changing that to something to where there's a name instead of a node ID. So that there's a resolution step that has to have happen, you have to resolve the name

into its corresponding node ID. Right. And that's to, and that's to make it where in the future if wallet providers like fountain or Alby or whoever the Well, this was, just

Adam CurryAdam Curry

so we know this was a request from fountain and Albie.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, that yeah, Oscar, Oscar tossed the ball up, and I'll be bouncing, you know, they, they've been bugged, kept, kept kept in the air. So they, they both need this or, you know, and understand the need, I think they're legit is a legitimate need on their part, they do not want to go through the pain of having to deprecate a node ID, because there's potentially hundreds of feeds out there that have this that are hard that people are hard to get in touch with. Makes perfect

sense, I get it. The the consequence, though, of doing that is not a deal killer, it just means we all need to have our eyes open. The consequence of doing that, as I've mentioned before, is that now an app has to do the risk resolution. So if you have a value block with 10 splits in it, now you have to resolve potentially 10 Different add in different API, HTTP calls before you can even start paying. And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

so just, I'm just gonna make it simple because I'm the dummy. That means there's a Adam at fountain and.fm, and it's an AC HTTP call would better be HTTPS, otherwise, Google would get angry. Oh, it will be Yeah. And so Oh, there's nothing can go wrong, expiring certs. And then that basically resolves to a text file that said, that gives the information as previously mentioned, node ID and the custom key and the cost of the routing information. That's basically what's in that

text file. Or, or it's an Ellen URL PE, thing. That's, that's the key difference there. No, that's not there. Okay. The Ellen

Dave JonesDave Jones

URL has nothing to do with this. Okay, this has nothing to do with this. Okay. Got it. And that was confusion at the beginning, because we're the proposed name for this was L and your LP TA for the address resolution, but that it was a misnomer. That million euro has nothing to do with Okay, got it. So we moved we got past that. And, you know, the, the issue here is, the ACA thinks the thing I don't like about it. And again, none of these are deal killers. I still I want to make

put this in the spec, I think it is a good idea. And I'm nervous about introducing HTTP, to what is to what is not necessarily an HTTP based

Adam CurryAdam Curry

thing. Because right now, all all the apps have to do is talk to the API and say, here's, here's the split addresses, go at it. And now there will be an extra step that has to be put in, which is the resolution, correct? Right.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay. So imagine this is this is a little bit this concern of mine is obscured by the fact that most all the apps use Alby or fountain uses a different provider. But consider a an app like breeze. Now, I know this doesn't necessarily apply to breeze because Roy is okay with this. He's okay with Ellen URL and these kinds of things. He's going to make that work. But what I'm saying is consider a an app like that, where it speaks lightning natively. And you can so what

you have is a lightning address. Excuse me, what you have is a node ID for the receiving payment. And you have an app that can speak lightning natively. And so that is a that is a not a lightning native transaction from start to finish. Now, what you've done is you've introduced an address that has to be reserved oft. So what was a pure lightning? Native transaction from soup to nuts is now interrupted with an

HTTP transaction? In order to get the lightning address that you need to finish the lightning transaction, right?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So it really goes from something that was very elegant to the two, okay, do we cache these? Do we, you know, it adds overhead, it can fail,

Dave JonesDave Jones

the caching would be critical, because you really don't like you can't, most most apps do not want the overhead of having to make potentially 10 or 20, even address resolution lookups, every minute that they're going to make, they're going to be sending payments. Okay, we

Adam CurryAdam Curry

know this for a fact. I'm just paying, playing devil's advocate, because what do I know?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, like caching is absolutely going to be net necessary that for some period of time, and it's, you know, it. Yeah. For sat streaming? Yeah, for the streaming per minute stuff, you're, you're just gonna have to cash the address. And like I say, it's not, I mean, it's none of this is like, the

end of the world. But there's some sort of purity problem I have with this where, you know, and I'll get over it, believe me, but there's just a there's something, you know, it's, it just doesn't feel as clean to me, because I've never really liked the whole Ellen URL thing to begin with. Because I just, I don't think there's, it's like we use we bring HTTP in to solve a bunch of problems that are that might, I don't know, it's sort of like a band aid, we stick on top of things. And, and

I'm just not crazy about that. I guess the reason I've been him hauling around and not really and haven't pulled the trigger yet, is two reasons. One is I don't, I need a story to tell. To add developers like, like Franco, like okay, Franco here, you're gonna start seeing these come through, you're gonna, once this goes into the spec, you're gonna start seeing lightning addresses, keys and addresses come through. And here's how you're gonna have to handle it. So there are, I mean, people are

gonna have to make changes to their apps across the board. I mean, and so that's, it's my, it's easy to propose this bag, but then I'm the one that has to tell the story to the developers when they say, Okay, what is this?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So let me ask you a question. Why? Why? Doesn't seem like you said Bhumi had answered that Why does an owl be want to do that? Why don't they want to do the resolution? Because of the overhead? I'm just presuming it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But he says, I think we should not rely on wallet payment providers to implement parts of the spec. And you should be independent, but

Adam CurryAdam Curry

they're the ones requesting it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think like this will, this will happen? I mean, I'm probably just just do it. I mean, like, it's not, we've been waiting around too long already. And it just needs a small utility of this. We need.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, I do too. And believe me, and even though I have plenty of my own nodes, I also hook stuff up to Albie, no doubt about it. But I'm also prepared to immediately switch that, if which I don't think most of these apps could even do. I would happily switch that to my own node, which Yeah, no, I think I can do it through the lb. Extension, maybe I don't know. But my fear is I just don't want to lock us into

boxes. That if if lb goes away, then what then we have to create wallets that if it's wallet side, then none of the wallets will be in your mind node won't be able to do that at home. So something will have to be built.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Will the current the current the where the proposal currently stands now, in I think it's I think we'll probably just go with this. I mean, like, you know, maybe I don't know, maybe even this week, some is that you have the key send address in there. And then you also have the node ID. And if you can't resolve the case and address you just fall back to the node ID and pay make the payment like you always have, or attempt it as you always have. That seems like the best compromise I can

think of. You know, basically it just allows for an extra to attribute in the value recipient tag, which is a key send address. And the keys, if you see the key sender address in your app supports that feature. You've built the code that does the caching and the resolution and everything within look it up, do a lookup. I wish there was some way to do this natively within the Lightning Network, where we wouldn't have to jump to HTTP. That's really what I'm that's really what I'm after.

And I just don't know that it's a thing that can be done. I wish there was a native name resolution that can happen that was native to lightning. I just, just

Adam CurryAdam Curry

well, for sure. I think the one thing we kind of need is some more app developers in this particular thread. We need to hear from them. No, I don't. I don't see a single app developer except Roy chiming in on this thread.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But no, there was a Franco's chimed in. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah. What Franco say no problem. He's

Dave JonesDave Jones

nice that I don't want to do it.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Okay. I mean,

Dave JonesDave Jones

which is, you know, which is understandable, you know. So, it's understandable,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

but I don't want to break things. I don't want to I don't want apps to fall fall down. Because, you know, we implement something that someone said up front, I don't want to do it. Well,

Dave JonesDave Jones

no, I mean, I think he's saying he doesn't want to be forced to do all the lookups on device. But if we have this as if we have the fallback as the you know.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah. But I don't have that meant, that doesn't make it. I mean, yeah, if we have the fallback. Sure. But, but that fall back, people are going to be putting their their keys and addresses in their feeds, and they're not going to fall back just going to be oh, here's a, here's your address. This is what Alby says you are and you use this, well, they're

Dave JonesDave Jones

gonna fail on some apps, I mean, they'll they'll have to know that if they're not, if they're not following the spec, then they're gonna have, they're gonna fail on some apps. So essentially, the way the way the spec, the way the spec proposal is now is basically is the key is that key send, there's basically that the value recipient thing does not change, everything that's required is still required, you just have a fallback of being able to do a resolution if

paying to the node fails. So it's basically just like turning to

Adam CurryAdam Curry

enter two values. Now you have to enter, you don't have to,

Dave JonesDave Jones

you can, okay, desert that you can enter a lightning address. Okay. And some providers will do that, you know, if then. So like, imagine, this is a this is easier to understand if you imagine a future scenario like this fountain changes their node. So now all of the the podcast or wallets that are hosted on fountain, they now have to change their node address in their feed.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, that's why that's being done. For the value. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

right for the value recipient. So in that scenario, if they if those things, if those podcasts or wallets in their value recipient tags in their fees, also had a fountain keys and address defined, then, when apps tried to send a payment to the to the node ID and it failed, meaning the node disappeared and went away. They could then attempt the address lookup to find what the new node ID is. Okay. So,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yeah, I gotcha. I gotcha. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, I think I think this is not something that I think we're, wait a minute, there's no sticking points. And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

so that that actually sounds maybe I just want to play back what I thought I think I heard you say, because you could also make it and this might be the easier way. So I sign up with get lb get lb gives me a node ID and the routing information that that information pair. And they also give me Adam at get albea.com. And then I would say, look up the node ID first the app just says oh node ID, okay, boom, if it fails, then do a quick lookup and see is it the correct node

ID? Yes. So instead of lookup always lookup if fail.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Does that okay?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So instead of always do the lookup, which is based the main problem people like to look up if the payment fails, which could be for a number of reasons, but if the payment Then fails, then do a look up on the name to see if the node ID is still correct. Yes, that's exactly right. That Okay, that seems like a reasonable solution. I mean, it's not great. People still have to have to add stuff to their app. But that may be a kind of a good compromise. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't see anything that's gonna keep us from doing. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, I want people arguing in the GitHub, that's a lot more fun. There's not enough arguing people haven't called anyone Hitler yet. So we got to get to that point people before we can make a decision. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We've only had one one person called a prick in the last 72 hours. So this, we're, we're below

Adam CurryAdam Curry

arable. We kind of step it up people.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, we're way below quota. That's reasonable. That I just, I'm glad you brought my attention this because I have not checked this morning, man. I tossed that that comment in there yesterday. And there's a flurry of activity. So I need to catch up with what's being proposed because there's some kind of new like, format, so yeah, okay. But I think we're good. I think we can do that as we'll figure

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that out. All right, good. Next point. Let's go back to the beginning of phase seven. Alright, come on. Come on. We haven't done a proper namespace chat. And you said, Here's face seven the plan.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay. It's my fault.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's your fault. I mean, unless you want me to bitch about Sam Sathya can do that for a minute. If you want a little interim.

Dave JonesDave Jones

What is that in the namespace? I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

didn't say it's not it. No, it's not. But we'll get to that. cebiche about Sam city and No, you didn't do your homework. You didn't listen to the the weekly review of knotless now okay, which apparently is number one on good pots. It's the best podcast ever. Yeah. Don't worry, Sam, for another glass of wine. I'm coming back to you, brother. publish, publish your medium and feeds. Okay. But all right, what is that? I forget?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, that's this is the this is the thing that where you have the public, you know, you have a publisher feed that defines children feeds. So, you know, I might use your metaphor, you would have an overall no agenda. You know, you're not like an Adam curry. Publisher, no agent, you know, yeah. Adam curry is the publisher feed. And then you

would define no agenda, podcasting. 2.0 my FX career in the keeper always child fades, and then those child feeds would have a link back to the publisher feeds so that you have a double confirmation. Now,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

do we have anyone any example of this being created? Who is creating these? Is there so is there a host that is creating these?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Who I don't know about hosts? Maybe dovie Das?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Because what was our kind of unwritten rule one host two apps?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, we've got I mean, that on that part, I don't think that'll be a problem. I think we'll have two or three hosts in two or three apps immediately. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And this is more for music. Right. So this is something we'd want we would hope wave leg would implement. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

Adobe does proposed is when Nathan say so that mean, he's obviously going to do it. And Steven bass probably already done it. Okay. So but it seems like it's probably already ready. Done it. Right.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So it seems like for music, this is really great for music. I mean, for me, it's like yeah, I don't necessarily need to have a publisher feed. But I can see this for it for music makes a lot of sense. I can see.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I mean, it's yeah, for music for sure. That's that's the slam dunk. But I can see that. I think you might want to do it more than you think. Because it's it's really good. For it's really good for discovery, like in a true way. Because now, now you're not just saying. So we've got this, these attempts at Discovery.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

They were waiting for pod roll to show up.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We got we got tons of pod roll. Yeah, but

Adam CurryAdam Curry

what apps are surfacing them?

Dave JonesDave Jones

ln URL, I mean, eskimi ln beats? Ellen beats this is pulling pod rolls, right?

Unknown

I think I don't know.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But bus bus browse show in pod rolls all over the place. Oh, no. But the true fans is shown pod

Adam CurryAdam Curry

rolls. No, I but no other apps that I use have. I'm waiting for an app that I use to say, Oh, here's a couple other here's some recommendations from this podcast. I know people are publishing I mean, I'm publishing cross app comments. There's lots of stuff that's being published. I'm just I'm just wondering if the apps if any apps are showing it

Dave JonesDave Jones

if they are have not gotten feedback, okay,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

well, and I'm a big believer in is is a no yes. I'm a big believer in publish first. And then you know that information eventually an app might want to implement that. So just a reminder that we have these things that people can put into their UI and the UX and make cool stuff is, when you say, discovery, that's when I just go, Oh, really? Well, I'm not discovering anything yet. Because the apps I use, don't show me the pod roles. Or

Dave JonesDave Jones

the pod roles, not in the API. But there is, but I do publish it. Because it's a little bit there's something Okay, so there's some things like pod roll, that are a little awkward to publish as an API, they don't really feel API ish. Because it's just a big long list of like, it's, it's almost like a it's almost like a database, you know what I mean? Like, it's just a big humongous list of things. That changes all

the time in a minute. It's, it's not like your I don't know, it just doesn't it seems odd to publish as an API response to what I do with luck, things like that. It's almost like it's like the stats. But the stats thing, I don't publish that necessarily an API. Just I just publish those to a to an object storage location with a URL. So you can just ping the URL every so often, and get the new updated stats, and you can get the new updated pod rolls. And you can get the new updated value for

value music chart. And just a lot of stuff like that this digit doesn't feel very API like. So that's, so those things are out there. If anybody, let me see if I need to make those. You know, here's an issue. I need to make the locations of some of these things because we publish tons of stuff at different URLs, like undocumented stuff. Yeah. And it's just I'm like, Hey, here's this thing. Here's where it's gonna be. And it's just, it's just a toot. Okay.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That's documentation. Its timeline.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, it's like, here's it, here it is. And that's not really sufficient. So we probably need some sort of dedicated resource that shows where these non API locations are. So people know. Okay,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

so. So pod roll is not in the API.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Pod rolls, not in the API, but we are publishing aggregated pod roll data that anybody can use in their app

Adam CurryAdam Curry

aggregated. Right, right, right. Okay.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, because we went, we went through it.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Was it not only risky? I don't even remember where it is. Right. But does it not make sense to add pod roll to the API? If you really want to do discovery? So you know, apps that are using the API can say, Oh, here's some data, let me find a place to put that. Well,

Dave JonesDave Jones

it should probably be put in the API documentation, even if it's not in the API itself. Because really, you know, I mean, these locations, these object storage locations is they're still part of, it's still the services we offer. And so it kind of should be all discoverable through the same, like, would call through the same like channel, which is the API documentation.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Right. But there's nothing to document because we don't have it yet. Now we got it. We have aggregate we don't have do we have individual? So viral? If I Yeah. So if I ping, if I asked the API for the feed information from podcasts and 2.0. At no point does the API return the pod roll that I've put in there?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't think I don't think it does yet.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Okay. Well, then that would explain why most people aren't used aren't aren't adding that. Yes.

Dave JonesDave Jones

This this. This is gonna sound crazy. But I lose track of what I do. No,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that doesn't sound crazy at all. Not not No, no, it doesn't. No, I seriously, I love you, brother. I'm just, you know, you know why I'm here. I'm here. I'm here for the chicks.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Chicks. So there's so many so

Adam CurryAdam Curry

No, I'm just saying that, you know, week so we return cross app comments in the API, right, we return the route post. Yeah. Okay. So just like that when we have a feature, which is something that's in the feed, which is the pod roll. In order for that discovery mechanism to crank up I think we need to add that to the information. The API spits back when a when an app says give me the latest. Then it needs to be able to see Oh, pod roll. Okay, I'm seeing all because, yeah,

Buzzsprout has tons of pod rolls in their feeds. But and the aggregated feed which I should probably look at the That's I don't know, if there's a if only JSON, I'm not going to be looking at it. But if there's no looking at the aggregated stuff is nice. But for true discovery, very similar to this feature to the publisher. It has to be coming from the API. So the app developers can put that into their UI. I guess that's Is that, am I assuming correctly? Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's a wish I knew whether I'd already put this if

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it doesn't matter whether you put it in or not. Do we agree it should be in the API? So that that that's something that can be used? Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

For Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. I agree for sure. Yeah. Let me actually, I can probably check, see me log in here. I can probably add, I can pry x. And then

Adam CurryAdam Curry

of course, you know, credo would have to document it, etc. Obviously, all that stuff comes in. And I'm just, I love these features. You know, and people can always do a look up on the feed. But I think, you know, you look at probably the majority of the apps are relying on the API. And, you know, here's some great data that we should add. Does

Dave JonesDave Jones

this says Steven Crowder saves me from myself? Because I'll put something in and he'll be like, Hey, I'm not documenting this. Yes. Be it because of x y&z Okay. Yeah. Yes, thank you. I'm trying to find a fee that I know has a pod robust cast. I know they have a plateau.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So I get this all stems from you said is great for discovery. And then that just triggered me in to say, I'm not discovering anything. And I'm not just I'm not even discovering my own my own pod role. Which I have a pod role on this show and no agenda on carrying the keeper. Yeah, I put the pod. We've got one. Yeah, yeah, we got pod roll, a pod row.

Dave JonesDave Jones

See, okay, well, then I can check our feet then. On 20666, you know, by heart? Oh, yeah. And no agenda is 415. Before. There is no pod role being returned in the API. So that is a negative.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

All right, but there's one. Let me just let me just make sure I'm not full of crap here. I'll show info pod roll. Yes, I believe you do media show pod news, weekly review. Look at this discovery.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You just discovered, what are you blame? I know,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it's in my publishing app. Of course. That's where I discovered the stuff I put in there. It works perfectly.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's called View Source.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes, View Source.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Notepad.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Okay, so I think everyone agrees everyone likes the publisher.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Nobody complained about it

Adam CurryAdam Curry

now. But it will be great to have these things obviously in the in the API. That just makes sense.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, yeah. When the publisher stuff goes down? Well, yeah, well, for sure. Like, if we'll fish this, this will be like a big circular karate chop. We'll just do all this. You know, we'll pod roll publisher, we'll just Yeah, okay.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

All right. All right, good. Then authorization, which used to be known as an effing email address in your feed. Okay. So now we have podcast verify ownership. What is this?

Dave JonesDave Jones

This is this is a mostly developed spec that never got views dished. You never got proof of concept, proof of concept ID. So, basically, I think where we're at with this one is we just need to, I start I got halfway through Oh, more than halfway like 75% of the way through, building a proof of concept. book after I had a long conversation with Tom Rossi one day as he drove down the coast of Florida. And we hashed this,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

we were you playing Barry Manilow on the radio and while you were having this little chat,

Dave JonesDave Jones

Mandy? No. So we, we hashed it out. And then I had to wait. We had a way forward. Because he's the one that proposed like the spec and the discussion thread. It's kind of a mess, but but we did get us get sort of a consensus out of it. And then I got about 75% of the way through this proof of concept where I was going to bake this into podcast or wallet. I don't know I got really excited about that wallet. And so the it's it's like almost finished in there.

But as you need to get back and finish it So I can find and make the podcast or wallet. The proof of concept for the authorization spec, then we're good. We're good.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And is this worth explaining how that authorization will work? Is that what is what is the workflow? No,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I forgot. Just get really. But it's there's some details that I'm not prepared to discuss. Because the it's basically it's not. You just have it's like a handshake. You're you're passing a token back and forth. To just prove that you are who you are. You are who you say you are. That will like when I get off of the API bridge,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yeah, that's got you. That's got you're pretty pretty engaged. So just to

Dave JonesDave Jones

talk about that, too. Yeah, no, I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

have it on the list. I have it on the list. But I just wanted to mention on true fans.fm, I go to podcasting to point out, I go to the recommendations tab, and there's my pod roll.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So what No,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

and Gordon's TRUE fans.fm TRUE fans, the SAM Sethi platform, and and I go to the to our show podcasting to porno, um, there's a tab episodes, which is default. And there's one recommendations, I click on recommendations. And there are the four shows that I have in the pod roll. That's discovery. That's exactly now Sam is pulling that from the feed. Yeah. Right. So for apps that don't pull from the feed, that's great. I love this. That's exactly what I'm talking about. That's discovery.

Dave JonesDave Jones

No, it's easier than view source. It's a little prettier, which also works, but it's a longer process. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So that's cool. But and, yeah, I'd love for apps to have that for sure. For sure.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, so So authorization. I think we're, that's the thing with phase seven. There's a lot of stuff in here that we've

Adam CurryAdam Curry

we've talked about, we've talked about a lot of these. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

like these are things that are like half half or more than halfway baked already. And we're gonna have a get Alex coming on the show next week to discuss categories so that we can get like music genres and these kinds of things. So this is in this is a thing that we've we've hashed out a lot. We've also got the content links back to discuss I'm gonna think I'm gonna grab an eighth and have him on the show if we can figure out a good time for him. So what can I ask content when I asked

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you things about phase seven before we before we move on? Yeah, sure. So chat. Now because chat, as far as I know, there's one or two apps that just take the IRC version, but the O'Casey there's XMPP is in there. Okay, so So there, there are, this is pretty well fleshed out it just no one has really implemented an XMPP chat as far as I know. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's another Yeah. Chats. Another one. That's like, I mean, it's like, at least 75% done. I mean, it's not isn't a it's not, you know, like you can you can put a toothpick in that thing, and there's nothing sticking to it. It's almost ready. Okay. So I think a lot of phase seven is gonna go when it's gonna go fast. When we get to that point where we start, you know, pulling the trigger on things. Okay.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

All right. And then the other one was, I saw a large discussion about categories.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, I don't want to I don't want to talk about categories. And I don't want to talk about content link. Because Content link is not in

Adam CurryAdam Curry

phase seven is no. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Oh, it is. I didn't see it. Maybe I'm not I don't see it in line. Now. It's not in phase seven. Please. No, there it is. No, I see.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You're right. Wait, it's not? Yes, it is. Yes. It is. No, it's not. Okay. Yeah, let's, yeah, I think I think it's not in there. Because I worked on everything last night. I think it was not in there because a read. By the time I got finished reading through all the comments, I had new less than when I started.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

All right category seems to still be up in the air about I guess the main the main discussion is predetermined or not.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Right. And I think I think what everybody, everybody who has a real interest in this, I think wants it to be not. Yeah, they want these things to be freeform.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Right. And if I recall from our discussion, we'd like that because when you take it to the bridge, and you look at Activity pub. The hashtags are not predetermined, but they're searchable. There's a whole universe of them already. There's an infrastructure that accepts the concept of, although you could argue whether it's a category or a topic, I think that's probably something we could argue forever. But that was kind of the idea, right?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. Yeah. So the idea was that if you the problem, the problem with the category with categories as they stand right now, like I said, I want to get too deep into this. But the problem with with them is they haven't asked some there's a there's a secret counsel, you have to go to to petition to get new categories. Right. That's always a problem. Yeah. And then we don't want to, we don't want to just recreate that same problem, you know, we want this thing to function as,

yeah. Like activity pub does where, you know, things. Consensus builds naturally around a hashtag. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Which is what the whole world kind of has moved towards his hashtags.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, even. Even email, like Gmail has just labels.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, exactly. There's the late Yeah, precisely. All right. I'm sorry. I thought you wanted to talk about namespace. It sounds like I made you uncomfortable.

Dave JonesDave Jones

No, no, no, that's not at all. It's just there was the stuff we did talk about. I think it was good to talk about the other stuff. I think it's too complicated. They, like each one of those really needs its own, like full show. Oh, boy. Okay, you know, because because the whole show, categories, like we need, we need Alex on here, because he's gonna He's, he's always coming

Adam CurryAdam Curry

right through the month route. We got him at the end of the month, coming next week. Okay, so that's the end of the month. went fast and went real fast. All right, let's talk about the Fed suffocation, because that's what you've been working on. That's where your head's at. I mean, I know it, I see it. You've been doing you were doing so many tests that I zoned out. I'm like, I don't know what to test. I don't know

what's working. Just I'll stay away. And I could only make it worse by jumping in and saying something.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, the the, the latest that we that I put in was? Well, what I did last night was I made some changes to add deep links to the apps. So now, when a new episode post comes through, oh,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that's what that was. Oh, okay. Yeah, no. And that's why you asked if the apps could make Mastodon profiles.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Or somebody Yeah, somebody else was among humans now.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Even B or Chad F or one of those dudes

Dave JonesDave Jones

chat F Yeah. So that's thanks to Nathan's long list of of deep link URL spec. On GitHub, I was able to put that in there. The deep linking to episodes directly is a complete mess. And most most apps use some sort of internal ID as the way to do that for the episode why they don't use an episode guid at, I don't know, some sort of hash of the, of the feed URL plus the good. I mean, it just seems a little odd to me that there's so many that you use platform dependent

identifiers, but whatever. Okay,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

so, so I'm just looking here Okay, so, where's the podcasting? 2.0 Did we get a live thing hold on podcasting? 2.0 Let me just take a look at the Nerdist podcasting 2.0 It has now we didn't get a live item

Dave JonesDave Jones

that must be something that broke

Adam CurryAdam Curry

so the idea is that in that in that post from that podcast is 9206668 PETA podcast index.org That would have deep links to the podcast apps that's going to be loaded

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, look at look at the one from pod News Daily this morning. The post that came through because that has an also there's image excuse me episode image art in there and not just feed in image art. Oh, nice. Okay, album art. Let me signal No, wait, that's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

not the right one. That's

Dave JonesDave Jones

not there we go. I just sent it to you through signal. Look at that and you'll see what it looks like. Okay. Oh, yes, LPP just posted it.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Nice. Yeah. That looks cool. Yeah, so that's very cool. Okay,

Dave JonesDave Jones

it's got lots of links to each of the individual. What I did was put in links to 2.0 apps, open source apps, and apps that we have a relationship with. So like, even though overcast is not a 2.0 app when Marco donates to the show, and he's supportive of what we're doing so we've got put them at the bottom you know, Pocket Casts we've had, you know, we've got a decent relationship with those guys, even though they're not doing a whole lot yet. So we, we've, so that's, that's in

there. And then if you just fall back, you can just fall back to you know, listening to the enclosure in the browser. At the bottom at the at the very bottom, so

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, listen, that's the listen. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So that's, that's where that's the latest thing that that I've added. But we had a bunch of stuff this midweek and I kind of wanted to delve into this for a second because the developer is His name is his handle is silver pill, he develops the activity pub software written in Rust called Mitra,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I follow it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Super helpful dude helped a lot with getting stuff working. Because we were not the bridge was failing to he was trying to follow from Maitre a podcast, it just wasn't working. And it ended up being two different things and ended up being a signature validation bug on his side, and a and a type A D serialization problem on the on my side. And, you know, so we've, we hashed it out over a few days and got it got it

working. But you know, it, it made me start thinking about a lot of things with the bridge, in my original intent going into this week was, and when I got it half way built, was to start recording a reply, you know, like, noting replies, so did you so we record the replies that happen, so that we can give the replies back so people use these as route posts.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, exactly.

Dave JonesDave Jones

The and I think I'm, I think I'm backing out of that step put up, put out the orange cones back. Okay. And so the A think so, there's a, there's a bunch of stuff going on here. I mean, number one, and not to be discounted as what you what's going on with no gender social. There's, you know, I think the activity pub fediverse world is going is seeing the need to go

more towards much smaller instances Totally agree. People need to have more, either see, they need to have and or more ownership over their own presence, or their own profile. And smaller tribes is, it's these, these, these monumentally large instances, I think, are more, they're causing more problems than they solve. And so there's the potential and then, you know, I'm already thinking in this way. And then Spurlock throws in this thing, and I'm talking about replies and

getting this stuff to work. And he says, he said something to the effect of you know, the thing where the brain like, where you begin to get it with with activity Pub is the when you realize everything is local. Primary primarily everything is local first, then things get federated out between instances. And you know, and my reply to that was you know, that's the issue with the with the activity pub bread with the with the podcast index, AP bridge is that there is there's nothing as

local. I mean, there is no you don't have nothing gets, there's no even there's not even a sense of local if

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I if I follow it on my my instance, SIOP shop.com Then it's just it's in the inbox. They're on my machine.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Right? Yeah, you got Have you got the post delivered to you? And there's never like the pot, the different podcast actors on the bridge, they don't talk to each other. Right? There's nothing local about it. Everything is remote. These are just pod, these are just posts that are getting delivered to

the instances where where the people live. Yeah. So in that sense, that's kind of a great position to be in really, because what's happening is the episodes are getting, let's just talk call these posts episode, the episode posts are getting delivered to all the instances. And then the instances the people on the instance can do whatever they want with them. It's now it now becomes up to the individual tribe to react

and deal with that post whichever way they want. And so like if you have a post, if you have a an A instance, and activitypub instance, with a whole bunch of people who are, you know, a whole bunch of people who are anti anti climate change, or climate change, advocate AdvoCare and I know what deniers No, not the opposite of deniers, confirm errs climate change.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Wait, hold on. Let me let me short let me shortcut maybe, let me see if I understand this. What you're saying is it makes more sense that if podcasting next out social, publishes an episode, and then I'm subscribing to that on my own instance, then people responding to that to that quote unquote route post that those responses are primarily for them for that local instance. And there may be a whole different set of conversations going on on Mastodon dot social on that same episode, essentially.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So So yeah, that's interesting as Michael Michael Shellenberger who's on who's on a podcast as a guest, that podcast in you have somebody on climate accelerationist dot social, who follows that podcast and you have somebody on climate deniers does social he follows that podcast? And so that

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that's two different common threads? Yeah, that

Dave JonesDave Jones

are not even related to one like they don't interact. Why? Whereas if we sort of bridge the gap between him start recording all these all these replies and giving them back, all we're doing is becoming the the flashpoint for for for crowd for Yeah, for problematic. So, garbage.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I'm with you here. Okay. So okay, I'm not quite sure how the where the how, what the what route posts I put into my feed, that's kind of irrelevant for the moment. But okay, so you have two distinct different instances, Mastodon instances, just just making an amp Neo Pleroma doesn't matter. So the acceleration is they have their thread. And then so one person, I guess whoever subscribe, someone subscribe to that podcast on their on mastodon.so. The deceleration is

thread. And they comment. Is there ever a moment where those comments can crossover? Or does that mean that someone has to comment from the deceleration is on the acceleration thread?

Dave JonesDave Jones

If the only time there would be a crossover is if somebody was intentionally mentioned, if somebody's handle so if somebody from the climate? I think I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

think this is the most genius thing I've ever heard. And I'll tell you why. This is exactly why tick tock is successful. Tick tock is successful because their algorithm bundles people who are in agreement instead of what X does, which is throw in people who disagree and create activity of people fighting. I like this a lot. Because now you you can have two different conversations in quote unquote, tribes. You can always tag somebody and then you can you can bring the you

can bring stuff in. But I think it will be much more successful in the way you just described it. That's really mind blowing.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, I think by default, if we if we do not track replies and return them as part of the poster as part of the post request, we don't then we don't become we Never we do not get involved in the moderation cycle at all. Right? We don't actually contain any of this content. And there's no, there's by default, no cross pollination between these different tribes, unless they intend, but I think

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that's, that is genius. Because it removes so much of the problem. The hostility, oh, yeah, you just gonna get that, I mean, just gonna get tons of it, then you can still create that if you know people do that anyway, cross instance, I mean, hello, milk, milk made dot dot post or dot club, whatever, you didn't even know what they don't want to know. But, you know, so people can still, you know, can still have that true cross community comment thread, but

they don't have to. I think that's really interesting. Now, I don't know how podcasters will feel about that. I personally, I love it, you know, I probably won't even be able to know what people are saying somewhere else.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Well, here's, here's how it would look, in practical terms for a podcaster who's, who's doing something like this with cross app comments, he was employing this with cross out comments. There, they make a they, they make a post to their, to their instance. So they're going to be, you know, they're going to be in control of this and make a post to their local instance. And they follow the, their own podcast on their activity pub bridge. So then they they set that as the route

post on their episode. And now their, their copy of their copy of that episode is now the route post. So now everything, they're their income, they become the owner in effect of everything, of everything, everything that's attached to that. So you are attached to the AP bridge. Now. It's right there instance.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So I'll see everything in my instance.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Right. And you can moderate everything to because you're there. It's your

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it's my instance. Right. Oh, interesting. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

that everything is local thing was just an offhand comment. It by bus Burleigh. But it really does. It's, it's the answered to the way all of this needs to happen. Because

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the answer to the question that's been on my mind.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, so you can't? Yeah, I think that's I think that's the way we need to go. I think I'm just gonna bail out of of applause. I think I don't think we need to be involved in but

Adam CurryAdam Curry

this is this is actually, almost by definition, this also solves the solves everything this solves all the problems we had with cross app comments. Granted, it's, it's quote unquote, limited to activity pub. But I think activity Pub is one of the most important technologies, cross application technologies that has ever been developed in my lifetime.

Dave JonesDave Jones

A fully agree and I think if we if we do things right, I think that RSS and a to me RSS and activity pub, or native bedfellows, I think they are complementary to one another. And I think that we can sort of glue these things together in a way that's pretty kick ass.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Man, I love it. I'm sure

Dave JonesDave Jones

that because because you met imagine, so what, here's because the next step, the next step beyond this is, you know, is putting things into your feed that you want to be expressed in activity pub. So the feed is the source of truth, that activity pub bridge will just express the truth things that are in your

feed. Yeah. To in a way that makes sense to activity pub. So if you have, like, for instance, we there's a, in the, in the social interact tag, you have that, that notion of a user account, you know, where it's like, you know, what's your user account? Well, that that can pass through, right? And now you get now you get mentioned in there, or you become like when it's like okay, you now you're the owner of this feed and you're in that's being expressed, so now you could do a rel equals me. Yes.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Your site, your ownership right there. Oh, man, this

Dave JonesDave Jones

ownership. You know, I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

think the kids call this based.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Is this. This is that's what the kids are saying it is this. AP is based Hey,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you want it take a little breather and play a song you did say you missed that on the last show so

Dave JonesDave Jones

yeah brought love the song.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes this is a new a new hotshot on the scene is it's a yet again a young woman in the in the arena of Ainsley Costello and she's

Dave JonesDave Jones

skipping all the issues skipping all the bases no this

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is not the skipping all the bases girl this is Abby Muir and mu IR. She's from Sweden Sweden, and the song starts off right away so I will kick it in just a minute if you're listening on the split kit you can boost if this thing and curio caster and what does I think just fountain and podcast guru they do live boosts now as well with value time split thank you thanks so this is the song aptly titled Stockholm

Unknown

to do that for me I was so stuck just tell me love me came to play Amina was your calling you your screen things are saying and I'm over my head in time that I spent but again you could live with your alpha gold Gold

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Now tell me that song didn't open up

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's a recipe

Adam CurryAdam Curry

she reminds me Taylor She reminds me of it was the chicks name Dora remember Dora think she was German Dora she had kind of those songs would just start off like a

Dave JonesDave Jones

backhand just bait you in and get your backhand

Adam CurryAdam Curry

exactly exactly your Stockholm yeah everybody and that will of course hit the podcast index dot top chart what are we up to?

Dave JonesDave Jones

isn't on the chart yet?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Let me see we are today 129 With the top 2020 29 Oh April in the Wolfers top of the chart today. Look at like Stockholm is number six. Okay,

Dave JonesDave Jones

we'll just drag that one up. Yeah. La sugar.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, I played la sugar. I played la sugar the other day. And Marina Earth is also very cool. This I love the wow I can't believe Wind man got some plays.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, that's excess pretty red 111 booth. Yeah, that's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

for events, events, events, events, events events. Very cool. Very, very cool there the value versus alive and kicking people alive and kicking out

Dave JonesDave Jones

now available on breeze

Adam CurryAdam Curry

saw that Andrew grommets? PWA was boosting?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, yeah. I don't think people. Can you explain who Andrew Gromit is because there was confusion. There was confusion, Sam and James did not know who he was,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, my God, Andrew, but they should have Andrew Grumman on their show. Andrew Grumman was one of the first guys to show up when I started daily source code and put out the the apple script. And he came in and I think he was part of the iPod or lemon group. And they were building that. And that was a Windows app. And Andrew was, you know, I kind of a lead developer. I mean, I don't It's so fuzzy. For me, I

don't really remember. But Andrew was such an important part that when I started pod show, he was employee number one. And brought him in and we did a lot of fun stuff together. The Andrew is a great guy, and kind of you know, we we check in from time to time and kind of lost track of him, then all of a sudden he shows up. And he's interested in progressive web apps. And so he's been building a whole progressive web app system. He's a guy that I'm telling you, partners weekly

review. May I suggest Andrew grommet as a great guy to have on for little before the a piece of the podcast history that has been poorly told.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. Yeah. Good. And he, and he was around, I remember him, because he also bounced around a little bit with the Dave Winer circles and that kind of thing. And I remember him from that I met him later. Just through, you know, chats and stuff like that, but I didn't realize that he had been with you and Pasha. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

yeah, he was the first guy hired. I'm pretty sure he was number one. Yep.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Let me say one more thing about the bridge, check it to the bridge. The so the way the formatting looks right now. On the posts, if anybody would like to tackle making that look better, because clearly, I mean, as I've said, 1000 times I'm not a designer, I don't know how to do very good at this. If you want to, if you if you can, if you can take because there's formatting issues here like title and description that gets

truncated and there's just, it's just kind of messy. And I would make I would like to make it look good.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Is there a place they can do a PR?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Well, yeah, you could, you could do wouldn't be a really, you'd have to know Russ to do PR, but you could do so

Adam CurryAdam Curry

problem. I know. Ross. Oh, that's right. That's

Dave JonesDave Jones

right. You're good. You're

Adam CurryAdam Curry

dead man now. Okay.

Dave JonesDave Jones

All right. So you just send your changes to Adam how to do a PR on the reef. And But yeah, if you if you send it as like an issue or something like that in the in the bridge repo, just what it Yeah, just make it look good. And then because there's a limit of what happens, there's a limited set of of HTML that Mastodon supports. So if you take as a boy, whatever comes out of the show notes has to be sort of like morphed into this acceptable HTML in a way that doesn't.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, that's gross. That's always tough with the beef. Right? Yeah. That's always difficult to make that look. That's one of the main problems all the all the websites have, like pod page, I think struggles with that all the time. How do I take what someone just jacked into their feed and make it usable?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. And when it's coming out of freedom controller, it's being mailed right? In that HTML.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's beautiful. It's beautiful.

Dave JonesDave Jones

chop and drop. I mean, so like, and I know, one thing I know about designers, web designers, is they love to show their chops. So why not throw it out there and say, hey, if somebody wants to make this look good, everybody's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, the revenue hands.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I just wanted to bring one quick thing up because on pod news, weekly review, Sam Sethi had what was going to be a rant and then it turned into a tisk tisk. So British thing, and he had kind of a backwards way of promoting the idea of activity streams. Which, I mean, it actually made me go back and look again at the activity stream spec or from the activity streams working group. And he really seems to want this. But

the way he brought it was kind of odd. because he said he hates the idea of which is I'm gonna just on the opposite opposite side of this, of people adding services with a split in the value block. And which was interesting because he accused me of having 25 splits, which I don't I think my max is 10. But it came from what Spurlock is doing with Opie three. And I'm not doing so Sam wants it to be activity streams that's shared

with everybody. And I don't know, I mean, maybe I'm just misunderstanding activity streams and seems like it's something all the apps would have to implement it what I love so much about the value block is I can add a service in there. It's like it's I called the API for podcasters. I'm an idiot. I have no idea what how an API works. I mean, obviously, I'm a rust expert, but I don't know how, you know, API's? Oh, auth,

all that stuff. If I just want to add a service where, okay, so it's, it shows up and fountain Fountain has a way of surfacing booster grams, I add the boost bot. Now, I don't see it unless there's some problem with adding splits that way. I mean, to me, it's the way the whole system is supposed to work. I'm just like, Spurlock gets paid for a service that I enjoy having. Now, the, in fact, when I send it to fountain, it goes to my own

account, I think or whatever, I bet it doesn't even matter. I want everybody I want to share, I want to share in all of the all of the value. And it just seemed I just want to make sure that I'm on the right track here. I love the idea of adding services and things that come along with a split in the value box, because it's literally a way for me to pay for a service no matter what it is. And with activity streams, I just don't see how that how you can have that value. Someone has to run a

server somewhere. And then surface activity streams that show me I don't know what I've done. I don't know this. I love I love what's happening here. Am I on the wrong track? Am I seeing this the wrong way?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't I don't notice this. I didn't hear it. I'm not sure. What. Yeah, I don't know how to frame. I don't know what the framing is, you know,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that's what was weird. I think he I think he wants to promote activity streams. But he was doing it by saying it's dumb to use splits for this. It is great to use splits for this

Dave JonesDave Jones

was my mind show. Why? Because you get him on the show. Let's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

get him on that he wants to be on the show. We should get him on the show.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Let's get him on the show and hash it out. Because we maybe there's something maybe there's something we're missing. I mean, at I guess the only thing I can think of that would be a downside to the split thing as a way to enable an API. Is that sort of you're kind of limited to the sort of minimum you can do so I mean, like, you can't really go. It's hard to go below 1%. I guess for some shows that could end up being your sort of overpaying? I don't know.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

No, it wasn't about that. But he just felt it's not a smart way to use the value block. And I'm like, that's exactly what it's for.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, Nathan says the other factor he brought up is listener permission to share that data. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess I could see. Well, as you're sort of passing through to

Adam CurryAdam Curry

no one or no one seems to have complained about, you know, booster gram showing up on fountain. People seem to see it as a feature. I think we're I think we're beyond that. Yeah, I don't I don't see. I mean, it's really anonymous. To me really is no

Dave JonesDave Jones

way there's no RPS or any.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I mean, that's that's, I mean, that's another beauty of it. But no, I don't know, I think that we'll get him on the show with us. Definitely get him on the show. Because and I just must say, I love the new. I mean, now I go to OP three like now I have a reason to take a look at this stuff. Yeah, I don't care about how many people are or know accessing. Impression ng downloading, listening, whatever, I don't

really don't care. Also, there was there was I think it was something beautiful that happened the other day, when, you know, I stream I stream my SATs to to all the podcasts and I listened to pod news pod news every single day and I don't think I skipped a single one. And yes, sometimes when I hear the music change bumpers, you're probably like, okay, here comes the ad and I'm done. But I may have my gloves on. I'm outside and so And then I heard James had some copy about Hindenburg

and I'm a Hindenburg, customer, Hindenburg Pro. And there was you know, and we were talking about the big knob and I lived in the UK, I get the joke. And so I boosted I'm like, Hey, I'm boosting for the big knob. And he sent that to the to his advertiser. And the advertiser loved it, me. And they posted on, I said, post that on Twitter, you know, I'll retweet that. So it was kind of a fun crossover, where boosting, I think, made enhanced, so the value for value enhanced, a

podcast that is inherently value for value and sponsored. So I think we've just been talking about that advertiser also over there. Yeah, you know, and I think that I happily sent my money to James and whoever that goes to, but also to give feedback on the ad. And that can be really can be really good.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, that's, I think that's great. I mean, this this, I think, I think people have to just become comfortable with the fact that and when I say people, I mean, podcasters. Think podcasters had to become comfortable with sort of opening things up a little bit. I think things of this has been an issue in the in the podcast world forever. Is that everybody's

super secretive. Nobody wants anybody to know their stuff. You know, I mean, like, I mean, Chad F literally, you know, does our books in the open on the you know, like, you know, on Mastodon Yeah, we

Adam CurryAdam Curry

were gonna discuss that this show. I had that as a to do item and we didn't. But here we are. Here we are. We're discussing it now. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I mean, that's, that's the thing is you, when you, when you sort of embrace me, no, but when you when you embrace this idea that things are open. And you don't try to be secretive about things and you let you let your audience pass through to your sponsors or so to you know, or your sponsors. I mean, like, I think everybody is just like everybody, the world we live in now is just kind of suspicious. And rightly so. Because you're you have, did you see the EU

thing with Margaret with the new Microsoft Outlook? No, no. Now, this is not the this is not outlook.com. This is the desktop installed version of Outlook. In the EU, now, they have to have a disclosure about third party tracking. And there's a pop up that happens on the desktop version of Outlook. A pop up comes up and says Microsoft and 737/3 parties are based are scraping your data for the advert for ad tracking. It's based on that email 100.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, Outlook has to so outlook is disclosing that they're tracking.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, they have to disclose to third parties they're tracking in the 100. Yeah, it was it was it was like 737 different ad trackers. Search give me third parties. Let me see if I can find this because it was That's insane. This is the new version. Like I said, this is not

Adam CurryAdam Curry

where's this the rock? Did throt do an article on this? He

Dave JonesDave Jones

did? Yeah. Okay, here it is. Okay, I've got screenshots,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

172/3 parties process data, to store and or access information on your device development. You're paying for this products?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, you're installing a thing that you're paying for through Office 365 subscription. That's crazy. It says by clicking the All button you agree to the use of these technologies and processing of your data for these purposes. Yet, so many people

Adam CurryAdam Curry

think that anyone has a problem with their booster gram.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Right? This is why I'm saying becoming comfortable becoming as a podcaster becoming more open and becoming a lot more transparent. It just makes everybody more confident in who you are and your character. When you can show that you're not that you're not hiding anything. That's crazy. So then if you have an ethic, it builds your legitimacy with your spa with it makes people trust your if you're advertising based or sponsorship based, I think that lens makes people even more

comfortable when you're when you're more open. Because anything advertising based is just so inherently skeptical these days.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I mean, I can tell you from experience with no agenda, you know from time to time, there's going to be someone that shows up and says you're pretending that You're poor and you're not okay? Because you know we have a very blatant ask or like date, you want the show to keep going, you got to support it. We also call everybody a producer. And we and we we also credit people for other things time and talent, not the treasure part. And from time to time, amazing wonder if

it's still around. There was a website, no agenda numbers.com Let me see some guy went to the trouble of doing that. Too bad. It's gone. And you know, and and this, this guy would count the numbers and publish spreadsheets and look at all this cash. They're making these people suck. A you know what, nobody cared? Nobody cared. There was always care. No, no one nobody cared. In the beginning. I like the kind of kind of weird but

nobody cared. Nobody is ever cared. They like and you know, and people who care who thinks that's a problem, they don't support it, that's fine. That's the that's the whole beauty of it. It still is, hey, it took five, six years before. I mean, I want to quit no agenda, Episode 100. I'm like, literally, we had a good run, John, let's quit this thing. I'm done.

Dave JonesDave Jones

What, I've got this weird idea that if you if you really love a podcast, you want you don't want the podcaster to be struggling and barely scraping by every every episode. You want them to see that it is worth their time. And it's a rewarding experience financially for them. Or else, they're not going to stick with it. If you really want it, you don't want that you want the podcaster to be rewarded as much as you as much as possible. And you know, like, for like us on with this

project. We said from the very beginning where this is all about our the donations we receive, especially the PayPal donations we receive on this show is all about building a war chest because this there is people come and go in there is going to be a time when donations are going to drop down to nothing.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And we're or when we die.

Dave JonesDave Jones

One of those two, what's going

Adam CurryAdam Curry

to happen eventually,

Dave JonesDave Jones

we in perfect example, a a $500 a month donor this month, cancel their student canceled their donation. Oh, so we did not wait. Yes, and we did not miss a beat because we have saved all of that money, it costs us typically about $1,300 a month have to run everything that we run. And so that's we just we just ditched the ln pay notes. So that saves us 450 a month. So that that 500 that dropped off is going to is okay we can we can eat it. And it

Adam CurryAdam Curry

might might add that you and I personally pay taxes over the money that comes in even though we don't pay ourselves.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We do this because it cost me three grand last because

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it costs money. We're not crying, but that that's just how it works. You know, that's just what it is. And we're happy. We're fine with that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And I'm scared of what is going to be this year. But um, I'm hoping I did my math right? It's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

gonna be $500 less per month, that's for sure. If

Dave JonesDave Jones

if under less so you know, because we're about to have to do this. We're about to have to get my brother in law to do our taxes for the LLC. And he and

Adam CurryAdam Curry

he doesn't work for every nice family member you got there? No.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Nobody, nobody. Nobody works for Nobody, not even family. Except us. That because because we have what what I've always wanted and you concur is to have at least five years of cushion built up to where you have the donations dropped to zero. Yeah, we could keep on truckin and not miss a day for five years. Yeah, because we made a promise. And in order to keep the promise, we have to have enough, just flat out cash to pay the bills. So that's and we're on track. We're

not there yet. We can I think last time I checked, we could run for about 18 months. Yeah, yeah. Two years, roughly in that timeframe.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And all the stats stay on the node. And if you need liquidity, let us know now, but happy to open up a nice fat channel to you.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But um, I'm totally cool with Chad F doing that. I think it's great because it it shows. It shows I mean, it's pretty accurate. I mean, that's his math is pretty spot on as far as I can think he is. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, yeah, I think it's great. I think I think just this, this sort of like spirit of openness. I think I think the podcast industry as a whole would benefit from that there's way too much secrecy and going on. So Debt stats and everything is just oh, that's falling

apart. It is it is,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you know, like, they never really needed the IAB. The advertisers aren't stupid. They have spreadsheets they know who know whose numbers are what and they discounted. Your numbers or X, Y or Z. I know what they are. So the IAB is just a farce.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, basically it is.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Let's thank a few people. I'm going to thank the people who came in with live booths pod home 30,000 SATs. Thanks, brother. Very nice. The Dutch guys up late. Sam Sethi. 10,000 SATs glad to hear that REL equals me is now part of the conversation activity streams will be soon I hope we need to discuss this smiley face. Yes, we will. We'll have you on Sam.

Blueberry. 7777 Please send good vibes decided on top of everything going on right now that this was the weekend to get a freedom controller going?

Dave JonesDave Jones

No, you good luck.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Brother. Okay. All right. Well,

Dave JonesDave Jones

you're on you're on my prayer list. Yes.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Top of the prayer list, blueberry. Dred Scott 4567. Don't cross the streams. Lol. Chad F with 333 This is the TIC tock model keep the tribes separate. Yes, exactly. He came up with the same conclusion I did. Another 4567 from Dred Scott says pew pew pew pew pew another 4567 Sass from Dred Scott testing que pues not hearing them on the live stream Yeah. What I opened up the pew pew pew pew and then he comes in with 45,678 Dred Scott going crazy says don't get your finger

stuck in your nostril bridge go podcasting. I will get you got it. Blueberry with a long, long note here sent on pod verse 333 33. I'm fairly confident by the end of tonight I'll have a

lighting fixture that will shine when a boost comes in. Of course I love this course picked up a sick little USB to DMX box from my computer been salivating at the idea of making a big ass led neon sign that is pixel mappable for the best music 2.0 homegrown hits homegrown hits as the absolute tits jacked follow that sweet homegrown flavor it would be set to build them a giant lighted sign that changes effects based off of booster mounts. Dude, I want one of those. I'll buy one when I want

one in my studio. I just want that pew pew I want to change with the numbers whatever I love that idea. Was

Dave JonesDave Jones

DMX is it what is that?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I don't know. Okay. Oh, I think DMX is a lighting protocol. It's like

Dave JonesDave Jones

okay, like to control RGB stuff. Yeah, I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

don't know if it's RGB but it's DJs use it to control lighting rigs, I think. Okay. Yeah, it's kind of like MIDI MIDI for for lighting lights. Yeah. Let me see what else we have here. I'm scrolling through a lot of a lot of different boosts here. No, I hit the limiter. So that's it for the live boosts and you're up.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We've got we've 01 off papers this week. Good work. Everybody goes apropos to the discussion we

Adam CurryAdam Curry

There you go. Thank God we have a little kitty.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's right. That dip into the pot James Crillon satchel Richards through fountain he says wait a sec. Those activity pub postings mean that every podcast can get crosstab comments if there isn't even a social interact then just use the posting that's correct James Yeah, the red and it's tribal

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that yes, that mean when I saw that I went Oh, holy crap. That is very smart.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That up in 96 was a lot of things actually. That'd be 1984 4000 SATs through fancy says last 10% listener boost. Oh, he made it past the 90% mark. Thank you. I'll be mere mortals podcast as everybody Kyron 2223 foundations will know $30 million marketer but I would like to claim the V for V consultant title. Courtney finally just released our Convo on podcast bestie recorded six months ago

Unknown

yes

Dave JonesDave Jones

I didn't talk about V for V music much would be great to stream boost that episode to give her a taste of authentic peer to peer real time no dodgy statistic feedback.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So we so we got to stream that episode by the way. I just got 2000 from from Barry from pod home he says it seems you still have me in the splits. That's a mistake. Probably right. Yep. It was. may enjoy a bonus. Bonus. bonus for you brother bonus. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Kudos to Barry for saying that because he could have just remained silent. He may. He may have stayed in there for weeks.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

No, that's the next guest would have changed that but yeah, that was my mistake

Dave JonesDave Jones

History podcast bestie let's see. Oh, here it is. Yeah, okay, I'm downloading that right now. I got to see what else we got here we got 1701 Oh, that's Mike Dale's gotta be Yep. Mike now through cast Matic he says hi from the snow globe of Michigan well hello from the freezer of Birmingham Alabama.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah chilly in the hill country.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Balderdash boy is 33 333 through fountain he says thank you for all your help and all the great info weekly go podcasting sir west of beer bourbon and molar.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, those guys are cool.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, good guys. Sir Brown of London 21 948 through cast magic is is remember what I'm aleck Google Facebook Apple did to you.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Always Always bring what does that noise?

Dave JonesDave Jones

And Emma like that's the Jewish Yeah, the

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the enemy. Family. Enemies. Yes, we got it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Thank you, Brian. Unite Gomez 3219 through pod versus boosting from the Basque Country. Now what is Basque? Basque? That's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

in Spain. Boom. So the Basque Country. Your

Dave JonesDave Jones

name? You're near Albert Alberto. I guess from maurices.com. Give me Give a shout good lunch.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Very, very first sentence and 10,000 SATs back to us. Didn't have to do that. And to do that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. Go buy a beer. source D send a 1701. As our buddy Archie says only a technician don't think I can get on 20. Get on 20 in. Say

Adam CurryAdam Curry

again? Oh, 20 meters?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. Okay.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

No is the tech wait as a technician? You can? I think you know, the 120 meters. But yet, you may not be able to do I forget this a ham radio talk? I'm not sure exactly anymore. But you can look it up. But I think you can go on 20 meters, but not like at some others you can't go on. But you want to get general just go for general, you could

Dave JonesDave Jones

do it. How big is a 20 meter antenna is pretty big,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

right? Well, a full length antenna will be 20 meters. 60 feet. Yeah, that's huge. But I have an n fed Zeplin antenna, which is just a wire as an end fed zip baby, a wire would that transformer on one end. And it's about it's probably about 20 feet, something like that. I mean, you got I got an antenna tuner, you can take a clothes hanger. And you know what the bet the coolest antenna is a loop antenna. What does that so a loop antenna is literally a loop

of wire with a loop of wire inside of it. And I'm going to have a big capacitor on the front and you tune the antenna with that. And those things are amazing. You can have it inside and you can reach all over the world. But it's very, I mean, the minute you move to a different frequency, you have to retune, it's very, very critical in the tuning. But loop antennas have been you can go back in history, World War One and World

War Two. All the wars that they use them in the military loop antennas are just amazing what they can do.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So it's so it's a 20 meter antenna, but it just in the loop.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's the loop can be pretty small. Look at chameleon loop chameleon loop they sell and it's basically just a loop wire with a loop on the inside and in a big box. And that box has a huge capacitor. air gapped and you just tune it and you're good to go.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Because I think I think we I think I certified my novice license on like to meter.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, novice doesn't exist anymore. Right? Yeah, that mean this is back in? Yeah. Two meter. Just Yeah. Two meter just on the handheld stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That means 60 feet. That's your whole backyard. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

but maybe you don't you don't need a full wavelength. No one uses a four way link. Hit me up on Vare. See everybody keto five alpha, Charlie, Charlie.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We get oh, the delimiter Comstor blogger 4000 sets through fountain he says that he fell a bit corners Dave and he's calling Asus fellow Bitcoiners that he's calling himself a bit

Adam CurryAdam Curry

of Bitcoin. Okay. Well, welcome.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Call Mr. Bhalla. Yes. Hello. How do you feel a Bitcoiners David Adam, please invite your listeners to listen to just two good old boys podcast at WWW dot just two good ol boys.com. Join Ben and Jean in their thought provoking podcast as they tackle a wide range of topics from the complexities of politics and global events in 2024 to personal anecdotes and technological musings. This podcast offers a candid and unreservedly discussion. Yo CSB.

Do you think? Thanks Ben and James would describe their podcast as a candid and unreserved discussion.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Listen, comics. Your blogger does everything with Chad TPT these days. He just he just said right to boost the gram for this podcast and that's what Chad GPT did they give him that? That's how he rolls. I'm telling you, I can see it I see his post is all Chad GPT when he comes up with some like, this is how I feel today. It's like a whole Chad GPT output You're not fooling me

Dave JonesDave Jones

CSBG PTS Are we sure CSB still exist

Adam CurryAdam Curry

no he auditory AI. He's just he's just become AI. He does not exist anymore.

Dave JonesDave Jones

He's been AFK for like a year and a half probably at this point. And the other one I know we get a monthly conflicts right? Got Paul Saltzman $22 2016 Thank you, Paul. Daymond Cassie, Jack $15 Derek J. Vickery, the best name in 2.0 is $21 Er and Rosenstein $1, Jeremy Garrett's $5, Michael Hall, $5.50, and Trevor at zener out of Australia $5. And that's our group.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

What a good group a good looking group. Also, thank you very much for supporting this value for value projects and podcast. If you'd like to learn more about value for value, go to value number four value dot info. And to support this value for value, podcasts and project go to podcast index.org Scroll down to the bottom there are two red donate buttons. There's one for your Fiat fund coupons. That's the Pay Pal which we of course, accept and we appreciate that.

The other one is for tally coin for all you fellow Bitcoiners who never give us on chain coin, but I still check it and still nothing since the 27th of October 2023 What we really want you to do is go to podcast apps.com Modern podcast apps.com new podcast apps.com Nude podcast apps.com and grab a new podcast that almost all of them now do value for value in some form of another. I think it's I'm seeing 16 different apps now. I think 16 Maybe 17 What?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Do them all do them all?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, yeah, load up your wallet and send us some boosts and a booster grant we'd love to read them we'd love to thank you personally on the show and thank you for so much for supporting podcasting 2.0 The whole kitten caboodle

Dave JonesDave Jones

but we just had just got the live the podcast and tip window live from the AP bridge eight minutes ago.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Way to go all right. Hey, it works.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We barely met we made it technically still like you're considering

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I forgot to send it

Dave JonesDave Jones

technically still love it, brother.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

What's coming up for this week for you over this weekend. Anything I think from fun, you're hanging out with the family just trying to stay warm. Trying

Dave JonesDave Jones

to stay warm primarily got got Christmas, celebrating Christmas with the in laws that we were not able to do very late Christmas celebration. So yep.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

You have gifts.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, we got gifts. We did have gifts. We're not coming empty handed

Adam CurryAdam Curry

stuff that you that you got from somebody else. Like I really don't want this. I think I'll give that to my in laws. And this is probably

Dave JonesDave Jones

the best the best habit. Because he just picks through and just get you just get rid of all the stuff you don't like. boardroom.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Thank you very much for attending everybody there in the chat. Thank you all so much. Thank you for all that you do. This is a cast of hundreds who who really work on this project. It's app developers, its allies, allies of the app developers. It's podcasters it's not jobs. It's a crazy band. I love all of you Dave my brother, thank you so much. And we'll be back next

Friday for a another board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 will be here and I'll let you know when we're live and Lindsey then everybody.

Unknown

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 to visit podcast index.org. For more information,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

go podcast. I think the kids call this based

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