Episode 164: Let's Get Local

podcasting 2.0 for January 19 2024, episode 164 Let's get local. Well hello everybody welcome once again to the official board meeting a 5.0. Except no alternatives. If you want to know what's going on in podcasting, it's happening right here. While it's happening here. It's happening in podcast index.org It's happening on the namespace. It's happening in podcasts index dot social, we are the only boardroom that

Yeah, this starts off, you know. Hey,

hey, welcome. Welcome your way. Well, how was How was your week? Exactly? Hey, how was your week? Yeah. Hey, are you in the podcast Hall of Fame yet? Dave Jones?

Not yet. You shouldn't be should be. I've got another 10 years

in the future Hall of Fame. You should you totally belong there.

Totally waste says you're not Eric. PP says we're not lit. Oh,

we're not lit. You know why? Because I didn't hit the lit. Oh, that's why. Sorry about how that works. I was distracted by all the awesome music and that's what it was when I second

your your pet. Your status is still pending.

I know. I know. I'm a pending full. I'm a pending fool. Okay. No wonder

I didn't get I'm sorry, the AP bridge.

I suck. I suck the cam. Sorry. It should be working now. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

We keep piling on.

That's the worst. It happens at least once a month. Once a month is happens. I mean, there's so many things to think of. No, I gotta connect the split kit. I gotta set the new. Set the right title on the streaming software. I've got to make sure I'm not jumping in on people who are just late on the stream. So many things to think of

our job. You have a hard job

and I wouldn't say that's true. At all. It's not even a job. I've for 16 years. I've not had a job. I just I just do I have a calling.

Oh, what is not a hobby? No,

no, it's a calling. It's a calling. It's a call Hello boardroom. We are live and lit. Which means everybody is in the if you're if you're a part of podcasting 2.0 Hopefully you have an app that to bring you into the boardroom or you know what we're talking about was

yesterday only sat on a booster.

Oh, that felt good.

Let me let me give you give you an update from the what would you call this the the brave new world? Oh, there we go. I see. We're okay. The brave new world of what the brave new world of all electric heat. Oh, feels directly in our homes anymore. Yeah,

Alex, what is it? I mean, you might as well be mining Bitcoin, probably. It

blows chunks. I mean, it is not fun. So, the Burkman Birmingham, Alabama.

Now, what did what we had 11 degrees. past couple of days in Texas. What did you have?

So rough, roughly the same? We had 13 on Tuesday morning. 13 we had 13 on Tuesday. So silver 15. On Tuesday, we had 13 on Wednesday. Yeah. We get one day of of warm up. And now tomorrow morning. It's going to be again 15 Yeah, we get the sun in another morning in the morning after that is going to be again 15 degrees. So, you know, our our house is like 130 years old.

I'm sorry to hear that.

It's the bones of this house are fantastic. I mean, like, you know, it I mean, it's every bit the sturdy, you know, thing that you would think it is? But there's not a lick of insulation anywhere. And right, right, right. The so we went to these mini split, like multi head mini split units about five years ago, multi

head mini split units. Is that a sex toy? I'm not sure what that

is. It can be depends on how you use it. What exactly a little higher off the ground to sit on but I mean, you could you can make it work if you really want it. Okay, but So, do you know what is the minimum Blood unit is basically a it's a heat pump, but it has you see these things all over? Well, they're very popular now. But you see them all over Japan? Well,

the heat pumps are the are the new climate change mitigation technology?

Yeah, yes. Your pure electric, you know, all electric heat. Yeah. And they

basically don't work is what I keep hearing. Well,

you're, so we're good. And because we, the way this thing works is you have heads in each head and each head unit in each room. And there's, there's like zones, you know, right. So you can have different zones be different temperatures and each, so the four might have four head units attached to one outside compressor into the compressor outside. And it's a it's air conditioning during the summer heat during the winter. And all it does, it's got a thing called a four way

actually,

you're you're not frozen popsicle. I woke up so we're in they run all the time constantly. We're running space heaters. My power bill is like $35 a day right now. Wow. And I woke up Wednesday and our bedroom was like 48 degrees. You

know it is you could just be a real man and heat your house with 17 Terra hash of Bitcoin mining power Yeah, it

would only cost me $28,000 No.

Well we have I think we have $9 a kilowatt 99 nine cents a kilowatt hour. So I have the miners in the garage and the garage has been okay that mean without it would have been freezing and so that's how I heat the garage and in the

now is yours a gas furnace or is it he pulled its heat was that with gas backup?

Yeah well with gas backup yes and we do have a appropriate well propane not gas we have a propane fireplace so that heats up the most of the house because it's all open floor plan that he's the house nice yeah that's okay we only had one one day where you know we woke up and it was 66 which is the temperature we have and we sleep and then it went down to 6360s are going down yeah going back up again. And then yeah

going back down into the teens again and this couple of days and I wake up this morning and the powers going nuts and lights going on and off thing of you know the that cycle issue they've been here forever finally just finally got an A power county guy to come out today is World squirrel on the line know that they found a bad neutral to the transformer. So yeah, he said they said it should be good to go right now because I was like, Oh man, if we if we lose power, We're so

that's why I have fossil

fuel any day of the week. Yeah. Now please

know it's a scam. You know, they they they say oh, it's gonna be freezing rain I saw no rain no precipitation at all I said this is not coming and of course it didn't but they jacked up the prices. So yeah, and and we have a generator and of course you know the generators to ensure that your power pretty much never goes out ever again which is what it did in power didn't go out to the generator just sitting there and waiting and waiting for it and you know for the big Apocalypse

Congratulations. It made me smile to see a drop.

Did you Did you listen to what he just watched it drop? No, I just watched your drop

and then a wind about

something productive with your

resume I can of spray foam insulation trying to not die.

Anyway, there was all kinds of stuff going on. I think the split kids database provider had some issue and it was very hard troubleshooting everything. I feel like

that's going on, you know, code database on the split kit problem. Yeah, yeah, it

came back up. Came back. Okay. It worked out. Okay. But just speaking. What are we drinking show beer.

Oh, this? No, not at lunch break? No, this is a mineral water.

Yeah, what kind? What's

the calorie free? Is a polar seltzer does have natural flavors. It has no flavors. It says its premium and naturally calorie free. This is the flavor of this is original

Jazz, but doesn't have the ingredients natural flavors, because this is the scam that I'm not okay, because that's anything but natural flavors. And

the ingredients say carbonated water pay go? Yeah. And

following along with the podcast index dot social, I saw that wavelike all of a sudden, as you say, entered the room. What did they what did they do exactly.

But they they put channel level value blocks in. So they have you know, they've never had channel level value blocks. Everything's been at the episode level. And it had something I never fully understood. But Michael said, it just has something to do with the way they were just the way their system was built, did it it was kind of hard for them to do a channel level value block. And so you know, a try. I tried to make it work a little bit. I thought I could let me get back

yes, I get it. I get it. I get it. Yeah.

And so the is the, the API calls for searching value enabled feeds just wouldn't return anything because they're the item label. I got Yeah, they technically weren't value enabled feeds they were value enabled episodes. So that never really got resolved in so now that's all fixed so now breeze should have all the music.

So I was I was listening to the episode one of waveform that's the podcast. I'll do it yeah. But if you could look at that feed for a second because you know, I only look on grants that I'm looking at it podcast guru which has

Anyway, can at the item level and they have a value

they value time split in there. They have one now they have two or they do because I don't only one showed up maybe that maybe that something with

that two of them. Yeah. Is they both valid person?

Are they both valid because I only only one shows up for me

to thought was weird pod in pod verbs. Podcast

Guru is what I was looking at

podcast. Let me check to see me check cast O Matic because KISSmetrics got a pretty Yeah, clear. That's what I mean clear and as you are.

And while you're while you're looking at that, now, I'm delighted that to do it that they're making these changes because they can be so important in the value verse, I keep saying using this word, they can be so important in the value verse by just being a great music host. Because they understand how to speak to artists and they have and they've got the vibe going. Then I was listening to them on the

Zebedee is Yeah,

well the other got video ads running on on Twitter. Yeah. Which by the way, make make voting fountain. Well, it makes they make it look like honestly at first I was like is Aberdeen amended this looks like fountain but it's Zebedee now was anybody's anybody's liberties? Ebody somebody somebody's liberty?

Yeah. And the days they're

back in? Yeah. And then at the very end, it says it has the fountain logo. Next, Zebedee. But they kind of make it look like you create a playlist on fountain you get paid.

Oh, the you do, right.

I don't know. Is that but that must be a fountain specific thing.

Yeah, I think I think it is. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, I think it is now I think you do get a get a cut. And then I think Sam Sethi said that true fans is doing that too. If you make playlists,

okay, that's me get a cut. But then can I subscribe to that playlist? In a different app? Or is that only is it only that I don't know when that true fans see that? That's where I'm like, oh, maybe no, make it available. So you can share it with everybody. Otherwise, you're kind of making the Spotify mistake. Spotify thought they could keep it all but you need the whole ecosystem.

Now this is interesting. Steven bass as we found out Zebedee doesn't work in Florida because of state regulations. How is is that based on Geo IP? Do you know I think

it works. But you can't you can't take you can't take SATs out of Zebedee. I think I think I think it works.

This is so messed up. Yeah.

Oh, yes. Correct. is messed up. Absolutely. That's really in Manhattan, New Hampshire. You can't transfer sets. That's it. Yeah. But you can bet you can send them right. You can use the wallet to send just can't transfer it out of the wallet into something. Yeah. Oh, you can't boost. Wow. Wow,

this is that's crazy. I had no idea that there was that they have to be doing Jeep geolocation. Well, to

be honest, who needs Florida? Come on, which is

the appendix of the United States. Hanging that's not doing much. That's

messed up. Oh, that's interesting.

Um, I guess VPN would work.

Maybe? Maybe?

I don't know. It as weird.

Well, that's that's a that's a that's like, a non starter almost. That's weird.

Yeah. Because I mean, it doesn't seem to be the case without be. No.

Well, they're in Germany. Tell they got a whole whole different thing going on there. I will run into these problems. There's no doubt about it. But But anyway, the point being the music stuff feels like it's working. You know, it's like people are drawing closer. I love seeing wave Lake, doing something that makes it better. And I can only presume they're doing more. I'm just not feeling the heat from noster I'm just

It's the noster is just a, it's it's hanging on by a thread. If enough Domus goes, it's over. Are you sure? Yeah.

I mean, you say that I just don't know. I just don't know.

How many. I guarantee you that. 90% of the people who are on noster are also also on Twitter. Oh, well, because and

telegram that's where they have a telegram group to discuss to discuss developments. So yeah.

It seems like a fun hobby for them. No, that's what it seems like. It seems like a fun hobby for Bitcoiners to try to build this thing, and that's fine. But it's not I don't see this thing having seen I have no I have no confidence that noster will still be around five years from now.

In a way it's kind of the same issue that activity Pub has is no activity Pub is universally seen as the mastodon thing. And, and the the social network noster is seen as what noster is, even though noster clearly can be much more universal login. You know, there's there's a lot of benefit to some of that.

When we ran in, you know, we ran into we've hit we've hit the first problem with the whole nostre thing. Right? You know, this week is so Alex Gleason is Jills. He's working on nos. He's the one that built the monster bridge and all that. He's doing a lot of noster work and he was like, Well, how do I get podcasts? How do I get the value information so that we can zap podcasts when they come through the bridge? Right? Oh,

oh, wow. Wait a minute. So so we're going from the podcast index, to the activity pub bridge to the nostril bridge, through the nostril bridge sexy. Okay, that's super interrupt, except when it when it comes out the other end. On the Nasir bridge, we've we lost everything. We the resolution is very low because we don't have splits. That's

it. And that's where it all falls apart is because you so you have a you have a podcast with six splits in it, different people getting paid. You can't there's no way to zap that. You can't. It just all falls apart. They stick because To my knowledge, they still have no sense of what a true of a true split. And and all that stuff is just it's just a mess.

It's so weird, because it I mean, I've seen the proposals. I've seen the what is it the spectrum proposal from GG?

Yeah, but see, that wasn't a real that was just an article saying we need this. Nobody's fully baked it yet. That in a way, that's not a central US solution. I mean, that you, you could say like, the prison thing is what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. And so there's been there's been there's been other things that are like a centralized prism service where you can send this thing to them, and they'll

Well, but when the when the podcast comes through, take it to the bridge comes through the bridge, then goes to the master bridge, can't it take the payment information along and just translate those? I mean, yeah, you'd have to zap them individually. I guess that seems like the only way you could do that. Well, it's

all ln URL that see this. And this is another core problem with with with noster. And zapping and all this kind of stuff is it was built. It's built by the Ellen URL, people. So they've made a commitment to Ellen URL over Kison from day one. And so it's a more it's a more complicated that you can't just grab a note ID and send instant money you have to go through this handshake rigmarole of getting an invoice for every

because the ln URL that you have to have some interaction with the wallet you have to you have to say yes pay or Yes. Voice and then you have to enter the amount And then pay is that is that the that's the difference?

Yeah, you got to look at you got to resolve the address, make a call to the make a call to the Ellen URL layer on top of the node, ask for an invoice for the amount you're going to send, wait for the invoice to be generated, then do and then pay the invoice. So you have to ask the receiving party to give you an invoice before you before you can send the payment. So

I saw on the namespace discussion, which I tried to stay away from because it's really bad for my health. Just anything, GitHub is like, I want to be there. And I saw there was quite a discussion about Ellen, Ellen URL PE and the this, this kind of flows into Phase seven, so we might as well get ready to talk about that. I saw Roy chiming in there was all kinds of discussion about how to handle the well known address.

No way. Did this happen. This must have happened yesterday.

I don't know. I mean, I might have been looking at something from from two months ago for all I know, let me see. namespace. Let me just take a look.

Because I love to comment in there about can we get some confirmation of Yep. Okay. I see. I missed the replies. Okay.

See,

I had logged in a comment about in order to have

So what I what I read here is that Roy was saying that the ln address spec should be extended to support multiple send options. So this seems like we're going into a little different realm that just something for the namespace for our namespace.

See, down

at the bottom there.

Well, yeah, so I missed all these replies. And I'm gonna see in this for the first time,

what you can parse that and immediately understand and tell me what's going on. I'm so disciplined.

Already immediately understand that the boomy from lb says no, they're not going to do that. They're not

going to do what? Address Resolution? Oh, so it has to happen on the on the app on device on device, which is bad?

Well, you know, I mean, open to interpretation. That means are we losing people here? I mean, do we need to have a? Do we need to bring people up to what this means? Like? Esoteric discussion where people are like, What the hell they talk as opposed

to everything else we do on this show? Okay.

Fair enough. No, no? Okay.

Yes, update us because it is part of Phase seven. This is we are now entering the hot namespace talk for and now it's time for some hot namespace talk. Do you want to just take him in order? I think this is number one, isn't it? Let me see what now you have an order here. Phase seven. Phase seven of the namespace? The we see? Well, it's number three on the list. But what since we're talking about it, number three of phase seven for the namespace is key send addressed.

Okay. The value in the podcasts value block, currently, where you define who's going to get paid. It defines the spec defines a value recipient. And the value recipient has a type. The only one available right now as a type of note is the type node right?

And then you can have as extra parameters the special key and the secret code. Yes.

So you can have the public so there you have the you have the the node ID of the lightning address the lightning node you're sending the money to and an optional custom key custom value for routing if you're sending to a multiple wallet node provider like Alby your fountain or right whoever. Satoshi stream whatever so then, that's so essentially you have a an address, which has a long hexadecimal, it's like a BEC 32

so we know this was a request from fountain and Albie.

Yeah, that yeah, Oscar, Oscar tossed the ball up, and I'll be bouncing, you know, they, they've been bugged, kept, kept kept in the air. So they, they both need this or, you know, and understand the need, I think they're legit is a legitimate need on their part, they do not want to go through the pain of having to deprecate a node ID, because there's potentially hundreds of feeds out there that have this that are hard that people are hard to get in touch with. Makes perfect

so just, I'm just gonna make it simple because I'm the dummy. That means there's a Adam at fountain and.fm, and it's an AC HTTP call would better be HTTPS, otherwise, Google would get angry. Oh, it will be Yeah. And so Oh, there's nothing can go wrong, expiring certs. And then that basically resolves to a text file that said, that gives the information as previously mentioned, node ID and the custom key and the cost of the routing information. That's basically what's in that

URL has nothing to do with this. Okay, this has nothing to do with this. Okay. Got it. And that was confusion at the beginning, because we're the proposed name for this was L and your LP TA for the address resolution, but that it was a misnomer. That million euro has nothing to do with Okay, got it. So we moved we got past that. And, you know, the, the issue here is, the ACA thinks the thing I don't like about it. And again, none of these are deal killers. I still I want to make

thing. Because right now, all all the apps have to do is talk to the API and say, here's, here's the split addresses, go at it. And now there will be an extra step that has to be put in, which is the resolution, correct? Right.

Okay. So imagine this is this is a little bit this concern of mine is obscured by the fact that most all the apps use Alby or fountain uses a different provider. But consider a an app like breeze. Now, I know this doesn't necessarily apply to breeze because Roy is okay with this. He's okay with Ellen URL and these kinds of things. He's going to make that work. But what I'm saying is consider a an app like that, where it speaks lightning natively. And you can so what

So it really goes from something that was very elegant to the two, okay, do we cache these? Do we, you know, it adds overhead, it can fail,

the caching would be critical, because you really don't like you can't, most most apps do not want the overhead of having to make potentially 10 or 20, even address resolution lookups, every minute that they're going to make, they're going to be sending payments. Okay, we

know this for a fact. I'm just paying, playing devil's advocate, because what do I know?

Yeah, like caching is absolutely going to be net necessary that for some period of time, and it's, you know, it. Yeah. For sat streaming? Yeah, for the streaming per minute stuff, you're, you're just gonna have to cash the address. And like I say, it's not, I mean, it's none of this is like, the

So let me ask you a question. Why? Why? Doesn't seem like you said Bhumi had answered that Why does an owl be want to do that? Why don't they want to do the resolution? Because of the overhead? I'm just presuming it.

But he says, I think we should not rely on wallet payment providers to implement parts of the spec. And you should be independent, but

they're the ones requesting it.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think like this will, this will happen? I mean, I'm probably just just do it. I mean, like, it's not, we've been waiting around too long already. And it just needs a small utility of this. We need.

Yeah, I do too. And believe me, and even though I have plenty of my own nodes, I also hook stuff up to Albie, no doubt about it. But I'm also prepared to immediately switch that, if which I don't think most of these apps could even do. I would happily switch that to my own node, which Yeah, no, I think I can do it through the lb. Extension, maybe I don't know. But my fear is I just don't want to lock us into

Will the current the current the where the proposal currently stands now, in I think it's I think we'll probably just go with this. I mean, like, you know, maybe I don't know, maybe even this week, some is that you have the key send address in there. And then you also have the node ID. And if you can't resolve the case and address you just fall back to the node ID and pay make the payment like you always have, or attempt it as you always have. That seems like the best compromise I can

well, for sure. I think the one thing we kind of need is some more app developers in this particular thread. We need to hear from them. No, I don't. I don't see a single app developer except Roy chiming in on this thread.

But no, there was a Franco's chimed in. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Yeah. What Franco say no problem. He's

nice that I don't want to do it.

Okay. I mean,

which is, you know, which is understandable, you know. So, it's understandable,

but I don't want to break things. I don't want to I don't want apps to fall fall down. Because, you know, we implement something that someone said up front, I don't want to do it. Well,

no, I mean, I think he's saying he doesn't want to be forced to do all the lookups on device. But if we have this as if we have the fallback as the you know.

Yeah. But I don't have that meant, that doesn't make it. I mean, yeah, if we have the fallback. Sure. But, but that fall back, people are going to be putting their their keys and addresses in their feeds, and they're not going to fall back just going to be oh, here's a, here's your address. This is what Alby says you are and you use this, well, they're

gonna fail on some apps, I mean, they'll they'll have to know that if they're not, if they're not following the spec, then they're gonna have, they're gonna fail on some apps. So essentially, the way the way the spec, the way the spec proposal is now is basically is the key is that key send, there's basically that the value recipient thing does not change, everything that's required is still required, you just have a fallback of being able to do a resolution if

enter two values. Now you have to enter, you don't have to,

you can, okay, desert that you can enter a lightning address. Okay. And some providers will do that, you know, if then. So like, imagine, this is a this is easier to understand if you imagine a future scenario like this fountain changes their node. So now all of the the podcast or wallets that are hosted on fountain, they now have to change their node address in their feed.

Yeah, that's why that's being done. For the value. Yeah,

right for the value recipient. So in that scenario, if they if those things, if those podcasts or wallets in their value recipient tags in their fees, also had a fountain keys and address defined, then, when apps tried to send a payment to the to the node ID and it failed, meaning the node disappeared and went away. They could then attempt the address lookup to find what the new node ID is. Okay. So,

yeah, I gotcha. I gotcha. Yeah.

Yes, I think I think this is not something that I think we're, wait a minute, there's no sticking points. And

so that that actually sounds maybe I just want to play back what I thought I think I heard you say, because you could also make it and this might be the easier way. So I sign up with get lb get lb gives me a node ID and the routing information that that information pair. And they also give me Adam at get albea.com. And then I would say, look up the node ID first the app just says oh node ID, okay, boom, if it fails, then do a quick lookup and see is it the correct node

Does that okay?

So instead of always do the lookup, which is based the main problem people like to look up if the payment fails, which could be for a number of reasons, but if the payment Then fails, then do a look up on the name to see if the node ID is still correct. Yes, that's exactly right. That Okay, that seems like a reasonable solution. I mean, it's not great. People still have to have to add stuff to their app. But that may be a kind of a good compromise. Yeah,

I don't see anything that's gonna keep us from doing. Yeah.

Well, I want people arguing in the GitHub, that's a lot more fun. There's not enough arguing people haven't called anyone Hitler yet. So we got to get to that point people before we can make a decision. Yeah.

We've only had one one person called a prick in the last 72 hours. So this, we're, we're below

arable. We kind of step it up people.

Yeah, we're way below quota. That's reasonable. That I just, I'm glad you brought my attention this because I have not checked this morning, man. I tossed that that comment in there yesterday. And there's a flurry of activity. So I need to catch up with what's being proposed because there's some kind of new like, format, so yeah, okay. But I think we're good. I think we can do that as we'll figure

that out. All right, good. Next point. Let's go back to the beginning of phase seven. Alright, come on. Come on. We haven't done a proper namespace chat. And you said, Here's face seven the plan.

Okay. It's my fault.

It's your fault. I mean, unless you want me to bitch about Sam Sathya can do that for a minute. If you want a little interim.

What is that in the namespace? I

didn't say it's not it. No, it's not. But we'll get to that. cebiche about Sam city and No, you didn't do your homework. You didn't listen to the the weekly review of knotless now okay, which apparently is number one on good pots. It's the best podcast ever. Yeah. Don't worry, Sam, for another glass of wine. I'm coming back to you, brother. publish, publish your medium and feeds. Okay. But all right, what is that? I forget?

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, that's this is the this is the thing that where you have the public, you know, you have a publisher feed that defines children feeds. So, you know, I might use your metaphor, you would have an overall no agenda. You know, you're not like an Adam curry. Publisher, no agent, you know, yeah. Adam curry is the publisher feed. And then you

do we have anyone any example of this being created? Who is creating these? Is there so is there a host that is creating these?

Who I don't know about hosts? Maybe dovie Das?

Because what was our kind of unwritten rule one host two apps?

Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, we've got I mean, that on that part, I don't think that'll be a problem. I think we'll have two or three hosts in two or three apps immediately. Yeah.

And this is more for music. Right. So this is something we'd want we would hope wave leg would implement. Yeah,

Adobe does proposed is when Nathan say so that mean, he's obviously going to do it. And Steven bass probably already done it. Okay. So but it seems like it's probably already ready. Done it. Right.

So it seems like for music, this is really great for music. I mean, for me, it's like yeah, I don't necessarily need to have a publisher feed. But I can see this for it for music makes a lot of sense. I can see.

I mean, it's yeah, for music for sure. That's that's the slam dunk. But I can see that. I think you might want to do it more than you think. Because it's it's really good. For it's really good for discovery, like in a true way. Because now, now you're not just saying. So we've got this, these attempts at Discovery.

They were waiting for pod roll to show up.

We got we got tons of pod roll. Yeah, but

what apps are surfacing them?

ln URL, I mean, eskimi ln beats? Ellen beats this is pulling pod rolls, right?

I think I don't know.

But bus bus browse show in pod rolls all over the place. Oh, no. But the true fans is shown pod

rolls. No, I but no other apps that I use have. I'm waiting for an app that I use to say, Oh, here's a couple other here's some recommendations from this podcast. I know people are publishing I mean, I'm publishing cross app comments. There's lots of stuff that's being published. I'm just I'm just wondering if the apps if any apps are showing it

if they are have not gotten feedback, okay,

well, and I'm a big believer in is is a no yes. I'm a big believer in publish first. And then you know that information eventually an app might want to implement that. So just a reminder that we have these things that people can put into their UI and the UX and make cool stuff is, when you say, discovery, that's when I just go, Oh, really? Well, I'm not discovering anything yet. Because the apps I use, don't show me the pod roles. Or

the pod roles, not in the API. But there is, but I do publish it. Because it's a little bit there's something Okay, so there's some things like pod roll, that are a little awkward to publish as an API, they don't really feel API ish. Because it's just a big long list of like, it's, it's almost like a it's almost like a database, you know what I mean? Like, it's just a big humongous list of things. That changes all

That's documentation. Its timeline.

Yeah, it's like, here's it, here it is. And that's not really sufficient. So we probably need some sort of dedicated resource that shows where these non API locations are. So people know. Okay,

so. So pod roll is not in the API.

Pod rolls, not in the API, but we are publishing aggregated pod roll data that anybody can use in their app

aggregated. Right, right, right. Okay.

Yeah, because we went, we went through it.

Was it not only risky? I don't even remember where it is. Right. But does it not make sense to add pod roll to the API? If you really want to do discovery? So you know, apps that are using the API can say, Oh, here's some data, let me find a place to put that. Well,

it should probably be put in the API documentation, even if it's not in the API itself. Because really, you know, I mean, these locations, these object storage locations is they're still part of, it's still the services we offer. And so it kind of should be all discoverable through the same, like, would call through the same like channel, which is the API documentation.

Right. But there's nothing to document because we don't have it yet. Now we got it. We have aggregate we don't have do we have individual? So viral? If I Yeah. So if I ping, if I asked the API for the feed information from podcasts and 2.0. At no point does the API return the pod roll that I've put in there?

I don't think I don't think it does yet.

Okay. Well, then that would explain why most people aren't used aren't aren't adding that. Yes.

This this. This is gonna sound crazy. But I lose track of what I do. No,

that doesn't sound crazy at all. Not not No, no, it doesn't. No, I seriously, I love you, brother. I'm just, you know, you know why I'm here. I'm here. I'm here for the chicks.

Chicks. So there's so many so

No, I'm just saying that, you know, week so we return cross app comments in the API, right, we return the route post. Yeah. Okay. So just like that when we have a feature, which is something that's in the feed, which is the pod roll. In order for that discovery mechanism to crank up I think we need to add that to the information. The API spits back when a when an app says give me the latest. Then it needs to be able to see Oh, pod roll. Okay, I'm seeing all because, yeah,

It's a wish I knew whether I'd already put this if

it doesn't matter whether you put it in or not. Do we agree it should be in the API? So that that that's something that can be used? Yeah.

For Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. I agree for sure. Yeah. Let me actually, I can probably check, see me log in here. I can probably add, I can pry x. And then

of course, you know, credo would have to document it, etc. Obviously, all that stuff comes in. And I'm just, I love these features. You know, and people can always do a look up on the feed. But I think, you know, you look at probably the majority of the apps are relying on the API. And, you know, here's some great data that we should add. Does

this says Steven Crowder saves me from myself? Because I'll put something in and he'll be like, Hey, I'm not documenting this. Yes. Be it because of x y&z Okay. Yeah. Yes, thank you. I'm trying to find a fee that I know has a pod robust cast. I know they have a plateau.

So I get this all stems from you said is great for discovery. And then that just triggered me in to say, I'm not discovering anything. And I'm not just I'm not even discovering my own my own pod role. Which I have a pod role on this show and no agenda on carrying the keeper. Yeah, I put the pod. We've got one. Yeah, yeah, we got pod roll, a pod row.

See, okay, well, then I can check our feet then. On 20666, you know, by heart? Oh, yeah. And no agenda is 415. Before. There is no pod role being returned in the API. So that is a negative.

All right, but there's one. Let me just let me just make sure I'm not full of crap here. I'll show info pod roll. Yes, I believe you do media show pod news, weekly review. Look at this discovery.

You just discovered, what are you blame? I know,

it's in my publishing app. Of course. That's where I discovered the stuff I put in there. It works perfectly.

It's called View Source.

Yes, View Source.

Notepad.

Okay, so I think everyone agrees everyone likes the publisher.

Nobody complained about it

now. But it will be great to have these things obviously in the in the API. That just makes sense.

Oh, yeah. When the publisher stuff goes down? Well, yeah, well, for sure. Like, if we'll fish this, this will be like a big circular karate chop. We'll just do all this. You know, we'll pod roll publisher, we'll just Yeah, okay.

All right. All right, good. Then authorization, which used to be known as an effing email address in your feed. Okay. So now we have podcast verify ownership. What is this?

This is this is a mostly developed spec that never got views dished. You never got proof of concept, proof of concept ID. So, basically, I think where we're at with this one is we just need to, I start I got halfway through Oh, more than halfway like 75% of the way through, building a proof of concept. book after I had a long conversation with Tom Rossi one day as he drove down the coast of Florida. And we hashed this,

we were you playing Barry Manilow on the radio and while you were having this little chat,

Mandy? No. So we, we hashed it out. And then I had to wait. We had a way forward. Because he's the one that proposed like the spec and the discussion thread. It's kind of a mess, but but we did get us get sort of a consensus out of it. And then I got about 75% of the way through this proof of concept where I was going to bake this into podcast or wallet. I don't know I got really excited about that wallet. And so the it's it's like almost finished in there.

And is this worth explaining how that authorization will work? Is that what is what is the workflow? No,

I forgot. Just get really. But it's there's some details that I'm not prepared to discuss. Because the it's basically it's not. You just have it's like a handshake. You're you're passing a token back and forth. To just prove that you are who you are. You are who you say you are. That will like when I get off of the API bridge,

yeah, that's got you. That's got you're pretty pretty engaged. So just to

talk about that, too. Yeah, no, I

have it on the list. I have it on the list. But I just wanted to mention on true fans.fm, I go to podcasting to point out, I go to the recommendations tab, and there's my pod roll.

So what No,

and Gordon's TRUE fans.fm TRUE fans, the SAM Sethi platform, and and I go to the to our show podcasting to porno, um, there's a tab episodes, which is default. And there's one recommendations, I click on recommendations. And there are the four shows that I have in the pod roll. That's discovery. That's exactly now Sam is pulling that from the feed. Yeah. Right. So for apps that don't pull from the feed, that's great. I love this. That's exactly what I'm talking about. That's discovery.

No, it's easier than view source. It's a little prettier, which also works, but it's a longer process. Yeah.

So that's cool. But and, yeah, I'd love for apps to have that for sure. For sure.

Yeah, so So authorization. I think we're, that's the thing with phase seven. There's a lot of stuff in here that we've

we've talked about, we've talked about a lot of these. Yeah,

like these are things that are like half half or more than halfway baked already. And we're gonna have a get Alex coming on the show next week to discuss categories so that we can get like music genres and these kinds of things. So this is in this is a thing that we've we've hashed out a lot. We've also got the content links back to discuss I'm gonna think I'm gonna grab an eighth and have him on the show if we can figure out a good time for him. So what can I ask content when I asked

you things about phase seven before we before we move on? Yeah, sure. So chat. Now because chat, as far as I know, there's one or two apps that just take the IRC version, but the O'Casey there's XMPP is in there. Okay, so So there, there are, this is pretty well fleshed out it just no one has really implemented an XMPP chat as far as I know. Yeah,

that's another Yeah. Chats. Another one. That's like, I mean, it's like, at least 75% done. I mean, it's not isn't a it's not, you know, like you can you can put a toothpick in that thing, and there's nothing sticking to it. It's almost ready. Okay. So I think a lot of phase seven is gonna go when it's gonna go fast. When we get to that point where we start, you know, pulling the trigger on things. Okay.

All right. And then the other one was, I saw a large discussion about categories.

Yeah, I don't want to I don't want to talk about categories. And I don't want to talk about content link. Because Content link is not in

phase seven is no. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Oh, it is. I didn't see it. Maybe I'm not I don't see it in line. Now. It's not in phase seven. Please. No, there it is. No, I see.

You're right. Wait, it's not? Yes, it is. Yes. It is. No, it's not. Okay. Yeah, let's, yeah, I think I think it's not in there. Because I worked on everything last night. I think it was not in there because a read. By the time I got finished reading through all the comments, I had new less than when I started.

All right category seems to still be up in the air about I guess the main the main discussion is predetermined or not.

Right. And I think I think what everybody, everybody who has a real interest in this, I think wants it to be not. Yeah, they want these things to be freeform.

Right. And if I recall from our discussion, we'd like that because when you take it to the bridge, and you look at Activity pub. The hashtags are not predetermined, but they're searchable. There's a whole universe of them already. There's an infrastructure that accepts the concept of, although you could argue whether it's a category or a topic, I think that's probably something we could argue forever. But that was kind of the idea, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So the idea was that if you the problem, the problem with the category with categories as they stand right now, like I said, I want to get too deep into this. But the problem with with them is they haven't asked some there's a there's a secret counsel, you have to go to to petition to get new categories. Right. That's always a problem. Yeah. And then we don't want to, we don't want to just recreate that same problem, you know, we want this thing to function as,

Which is what the whole world kind of has moved towards his hashtags.

Yeah, even. Even email, like Gmail has just labels.

Yeah, exactly. There's the late Yeah, precisely. All right. I'm sorry. I thought you wanted to talk about namespace. It sounds like I made you uncomfortable.

No, no, no, that's not at all. It's just there was the stuff we did talk about. I think it was good to talk about the other stuff. I think it's too complicated. They, like each one of those really needs its own, like full show. Oh, boy. Okay, you know, because because the whole show, categories, like we need, we need Alex on here, because he's gonna He's, he's always coming

right through the month route. We got him at the end of the month, coming next week. Okay, so that's the end of the month. went fast and went real fast. All right, let's talk about the Fed suffocation, because that's what you've been working on. That's where your head's at. I mean, I know it, I see it. You've been doing you were doing so many tests that I zoned out. I'm like, I don't know what to test. I don't know

Yes, the the, the latest that we that I put in was? Well, what I did last night was I made some changes to add deep links to the apps. So now, when a new episode post comes through, oh,

that's what that was. Oh, okay. Yeah, no. And that's why you asked if the apps could make Mastodon profiles.

Or somebody Yeah, somebody else was among humans now.

Even B or Chad F or one of those dudes

chat F Yeah. So that's thanks to Nathan's long list of of deep link URL spec. On GitHub, I was able to put that in there. The deep linking to episodes directly is a complete mess. And most most apps use some sort of internal ID as the way to do that for the episode why they don't use an episode guid at, I don't know, some sort of hash of the, of the feed URL plus the good. I mean, it just seems a little odd to me that there's so many that you use platform dependent

so, so I'm just looking here Okay, so, where's the podcasting? 2.0 Did we get a live thing hold on podcasting? 2.0 Let me just take a look at the Nerdist podcasting 2.0 It has now we didn't get a live item

that must be something that broke

so the idea is that in that in that post from that podcast is 9206668 PETA podcast index.org That would have deep links to the podcast apps that's going to be loaded

Yeah, look at look at the one from pod News Daily this morning. The post that came through because that has an also there's image excuse me episode image art in there and not just feed in image art. Oh, nice. Okay, album art. Let me signal No, wait, that's

not the right one. That's

not there we go. I just sent it to you through signal. Look at that and you'll see what it looks like. Okay. Oh, yes, LPP just posted it.

Nice. Yeah. That looks cool. Yeah, so that's very cool. Okay,

it's got lots of links to each of the individual. What I did was put in links to 2.0 apps, open source apps, and apps that we have a relationship with. So like, even though overcast is not a 2.0 app when Marco donates to the show, and he's supportive of what we're doing so we've got put them at the bottom you know, Pocket Casts we've had, you know, we've got a decent relationship with those guys, even though they're not doing a whole lot yet. So we, we've, so that's, that's in

Yeah, listen, that's the listen. Yeah.

So that's, that's where that's the latest thing that that I've added. But we had a bunch of stuff this midweek and I kind of wanted to delve into this for a second because the developer is His name is his handle is silver pill, he develops the activity pub software written in Rust called Mitra,

I follow it.

Super helpful dude helped a lot with getting stuff working. Because we were not the bridge was failing to he was trying to follow from Maitre a podcast, it just wasn't working. And it ended up being two different things and ended up being a signature validation bug on his side, and a and a type A D serialization problem on the on my side. And, you know, so we've, we hashed it out over a few days and got it got it

Yeah, exactly.

The and I think I'm, I think I'm backing out of that step put up, put out the orange cones back. Okay. And so the A think so, there's a, there's a bunch of stuff going on here. I mean, number one, and not to be discounted as what you what's going on with no gender social. There's, you know, I think the activity pub fediverse world is going is seeing the need to go

I if I follow it on my my instance, SIOP shop.com Then it's just it's in the inbox. They're on my machine.

Right? Yeah, you got Have you got the post delivered to you? And there's never like the pot, the different podcast actors on the bridge, they don't talk to each other. Right? There's nothing local about it. Everything is remote. These are just pod, these are just posts that are getting delivered to

Wait, hold on. Let me let me short let me shortcut maybe, let me see if I understand this. What you're saying is it makes more sense that if podcasting next out social, publishes an episode, and then I'm subscribing to that on my own instance, then people responding to that to that quote unquote route post that those responses are primarily for them for that local instance. And there may be a whole different set of conversations going on on Mastodon dot social on that same episode, essentially.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So So yeah, that's interesting as Michael Michael Shellenberger who's on who's on a podcast as a guest, that podcast in you have somebody on climate accelerationist dot social, who follows that podcast and you have somebody on climate deniers does social he follows that podcast? And so that

that's two different common threads? Yeah, that

are not even related to one like they don't interact. Why? Whereas if we sort of bridge the gap between him start recording all these all these replies and giving them back, all we're doing is becoming the the flashpoint for for for crowd for Yeah, for problematic. So, garbage.

I'm with you here. Okay. So okay, I'm not quite sure how the where the how, what the what route posts I put into my feed, that's kind of irrelevant for the moment. But okay, so you have two distinct different instances, Mastodon instances, just just making an amp Neo Pleroma doesn't matter. So the acceleration is they have their thread. And then so one person, I guess whoever subscribe, someone subscribe to that podcast on their on mastodon.so. The deceleration is

If the only time there would be a crossover is if somebody was intentionally mentioned, if somebody's handle so if somebody from the climate? I think I

think this is the most genius thing I've ever heard. And I'll tell you why. This is exactly why tick tock is successful. Tick tock is successful because their algorithm bundles people who are in agreement instead of what X does, which is throw in people who disagree and create activity of people fighting. I like this a lot. Because now you you can have two different conversations in quote unquote, tribes. You can always tag somebody and then you can you can bring the you

Yes, I think by default, if we if we do not track replies and return them as part of the poster as part of the post request, we don't then we don't become we Never we do not get involved in the moderation cycle at all. Right? We don't actually contain any of this content. And there's no, there's by default, no cross pollination between these different tribes, unless they intend, but I think

that's, that is genius. Because it removes so much of the problem. The hostility, oh, yeah, you just gonna get that, I mean, just gonna get tons of it, then you can still create that if you know people do that anyway, cross instance, I mean, hello, milk, milk made dot dot post or dot club, whatever, you didn't even know what they don't want to know. But, you know, so people can still, you know, can still have that true cross community comment thread, but

Well, here's, here's how it would look, in practical terms for a podcaster who's, who's doing something like this with cross app comments, he was employing this with cross out comments. There, they make a they, they make a post to their, to their instance. So they're going to be, you know, they're going to be in control of this and make a post to their local instance. And they follow the, their own podcast on their activity pub bridge. So then they they set that as the route

So I'll see everything in my instance.

Right. And you can moderate everything to because you're there. It's your

it's my instance. Right. Oh, interesting. Yeah,

that everything is local thing was just an offhand comment. It by bus Burleigh. But it really does. It's, it's the answered to the way all of this needs to happen. Because

the answer to the question that's been on my mind.

Yeah, so you can't? Yeah, I think that's I think that's the way we need to go. I think I'm just gonna bail out of of applause. I think I don't think we need to be involved in but

this is this is actually, almost by definition, this also solves the solves everything this solves all the problems we had with cross app comments. Granted, it's, it's quote unquote, limited to activity pub. But I think activity Pub is one of the most important technologies, cross application technologies that has ever been developed in my lifetime.

A fully agree and I think if we if we do things right, I think that RSS and a to me RSS and activity pub, or native bedfellows, I think they are complementary to one another. And I think that we can sort of glue these things together in a way that's pretty kick ass.

Man, I love it. I'm sure

that because because you met imagine, so what, here's because the next step, the next step beyond this is, you know, is putting things into your feed that you want to be expressed in activity pub. So the feed is the source of truth, that activity pub bridge will just express the truth things that are in your

Your site, your ownership right there. Oh, man, this

ownership. You know, I

think the kids call this based.

Is this. This is that's what the kids are saying it is this. AP is based Hey,

you want it take a little breather and play a song you did say you missed that on the last show so

yeah brought love the song.

Yes this is a new a new hotshot on the scene is it's a yet again a young woman in the in the arena of Ainsley Costello and she's

skipping all the issues skipping all the bases no this

is not the skipping all the bases girl this is Abby Muir and mu IR. She's from Sweden Sweden, and the song starts off right away so I will kick it in just a minute if you're listening on the split kit you can boost if this thing and curio caster and what does I think just fountain and podcast guru they do live boosts now as well with value time split thank you thanks so this is the song aptly titled Stockholm

to do that for me I was so stuck just tell me love me came to play Amina was your calling you your screen things are saying and I'm over my head in time that I spent but again you could live with your alpha gold Gold

Now tell me that song didn't open up

that's a recipe

she reminds me Taylor She reminds me of it was the chicks name Dora remember Dora think she was German Dora she had kind of those songs would just start off like a

backhand just bait you in and get your backhand

exactly exactly your Stockholm yeah everybody and that will of course hit the podcast index dot top chart what are we up to?

isn't on the chart yet?

Let me see we are today 129 With the top 2020 29 Oh April in the Wolfers top of the chart today. Look at like Stockholm is number six. Okay,

we'll just drag that one up. Yeah. La sugar.

Yeah, I played la sugar. I played la sugar the other day. And Marina Earth is also very cool. This I love the wow I can't believe Wind man got some plays.

Yeah, that's excess pretty red 111 booth. Yeah, that's

for events, events, events, events, events events. Very cool. Very, very cool there the value versus alive and kicking people alive and kicking out

now available on breeze

saw that Andrew grommets? PWA was boosting?

Yeah, yeah. I don't think people. Can you explain who Andrew Gromit is because there was confusion. There was confusion, Sam and James did not know who he was,

Oh, my God, Andrew, but they should have Andrew Grumman on their show. Andrew Grumman was one of the first guys to show up when I started daily source code and put out the the apple script. And he came in and I think he was part of the iPod or lemon group. And they were building that. And that was a Windows app. And Andrew was, you know, I kind of a lead developer. I mean, I don't It's so fuzzy. For me, I

Yeah. Yeah. Good. And he, and he was around, I remember him, because he also bounced around a little bit with the Dave Winer circles and that kind of thing. And I remember him from that I met him later. Just through, you know, chats and stuff like that, but I didn't realize that he had been with you and Pasha. Yeah,

yeah, he was the first guy hired. I'm pretty sure he was number one. Yep.

Let me say one more thing about the bridge, check it to the bridge. The so the way the formatting looks right now. On the posts, if anybody would like to tackle making that look better, because clearly, I mean, as I've said, 1000 times I'm not a designer, I don't know how to do very good at this. If you want to, if you if you can, if you can take because there's formatting issues here like title and description that gets

Is there a place they can do a PR?

Well, yeah, you could, you could do wouldn't be a really, you'd have to know Russ to do PR, but you could do so

problem. I know. Ross. Oh, that's right. That's

right. You're good. You're

dead man now. Okay.

All right. So you just send your changes to Adam how to do a PR on the reef. And But yeah, if you if you send it as like an issue or something like that in the in the bridge repo, just what it Yeah, just make it look good. And then because there's a limit of what happens, there's a limited set of of HTML that Mastodon supports. So if you take as a boy, whatever comes out of the show notes has to be sort of like morphed into this acceptable HTML in a way that doesn't.

Oh, that's gross. That's always tough with the beef. Right? Yeah. That's always difficult to make that look. That's one of the main problems all the all the websites have, like pod page, I think struggles with that all the time. How do I take what someone just jacked into their feed and make it usable?

Yeah. And when it's coming out of freedom controller, it's being mailed right? In that HTML.

It's beautiful. It's beautiful.

chop and drop. I mean, so like, and I know, one thing I know about designers, web designers, is they love to show their chops. So why not throw it out there and say, hey, if somebody wants to make this look good, everybody's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, the revenue hands.

I just wanted to bring one quick thing up because on pod news, weekly review, Sam Sethi had what was going to be a rant and then it turned into a tisk tisk. So British thing, and he had kind of a backwards way of promoting the idea of activity streams. Which, I mean, it actually made me go back and look again at the activity stream spec or from the activity streams working group. And he really seems to want this. But

I don't I don't notice this. I didn't hear it. I'm not sure. What. Yeah, I don't know how to frame. I don't know what the framing is, you know,

that's what was weird. I think he I think he wants to promote activity streams. But he was doing it by saying it's dumb to use splits for this. It is great to use splits for this

was my mind show. Why? Because you get him on the show. Let's

get him on that he wants to be on the show. We should get him on the show.

Let's get him on the show and hash it out. Because we maybe there's something maybe there's something we're missing. I mean, at I guess the only thing I can think of that would be a downside to the split thing as a way to enable an API. Is that sort of you're kind of limited to the sort of minimum you can do so I mean, like, you can't really go. It's hard to go below 1%. I guess for some shows that could end up being your sort of overpaying? I don't know.

No, it wasn't about that. But he just felt it's not a smart way to use the value block. And I'm like, that's exactly what it's for.

Oh, Nathan says the other factor he brought up is listener permission to share that data. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess I could see. Well, as you're sort of passing through to

no one or no one seems to have complained about, you know, booster gram showing up on fountain. People seem to see it as a feature. I think we're I think we're beyond that. Yeah, I don't I don't see. I mean, it's really anonymous. To me really is no

way there's no RPS or any.

I mean, that's that's, I mean, that's another beauty of it. But no, I don't know, I think that we'll get him on the show with us. Definitely get him on the show. Because and I just must say, I love the new. I mean, now I go to OP three like now I have a reason to take a look at this stuff. Yeah, I don't care about how many people are or know accessing. Impression ng downloading, listening, whatever, I don't

Yeah, that's, I think that's great. I mean, this this, I think, I think people have to just become comfortable with the fact that and when I say people, I mean, podcasters. Think podcasters had to become comfortable with sort of opening things up a little bit. I think things of this has been an issue in the in the podcast world forever. Is that everybody's

were gonna discuss that this show. I had that as a to do item and we didn't. But here we are. Here we are. We're discussing it now. Yeah,

I mean, that's, that's the thing is you, when you, when you sort of embrace me, no, but when you when you embrace this idea that things are open. And you don't try to be secretive about things and you let you let your audience pass through to your sponsors or so to you know, or your sponsors. I mean, like, I think everybody is just like everybody, the world we live in now is just kind of suspicious. And rightly so. Because you're you have, did you see the EU

Oh, Outlook has to so outlook is disclosing that they're tracking.

Yes, they have to disclose to third parties they're tracking in the 100. Yeah, it was it was it was like 737 different ad trackers. Search give me third parties. Let me see if I can find this because it was That's insane. This is the new version. Like I said, this is not

where's this the rock? Did throt do an article on this? He

did? Yeah. Okay, here it is. Okay, I've got screenshots,

172/3 parties process data, to store and or access information on your device development. You're paying for this products?

Yes, you're installing a thing that you're paying for through Office 365 subscription. That's crazy. It says by clicking the All button you agree to the use of these technologies and processing of your data for these purposes. Yet, so many people

think that anyone has a problem with their booster gram.

Right? This is why I'm saying becoming comfortable becoming as a podcaster becoming more open and becoming a lot more transparent. It just makes everybody more confident in who you are and your character. When you can show that you're not that you're not hiding anything. That's crazy. So then if you have an ethic, it builds your legitimacy with your spa with it makes people trust your if you're advertising based or sponsorship based, I think that lens makes people even more

I mean, I can tell you from experience with no agenda, you know from time to time, there's going to be someone that shows up and says you're pretending that You're poor and you're not okay? Because you know we have a very blatant ask or like date, you want the show to keep going, you got to support it. We also call everybody a producer. And we and we we also credit people for other things time and talent, not the treasure part. And from time to time, amazing wonder if

What, I've got this weird idea that if you if you really love a podcast, you want you don't want the podcaster to be struggling and barely scraping by every every episode. You want them to see that it is worth their time. And it's a rewarding experience financially for them. Or else, they're not going to stick with it. If you really want it, you don't want that you want the podcaster to be rewarded as much as you as much as possible. And you know, like, for like us on with this

And we're or when we die.

One of those two, what's going

to happen eventually,

we in perfect example, a a $500 a month donor this month, cancel their student canceled their donation. Oh, so we did not wait. Yes, and we did not miss a beat because we have saved all of that money, it costs us typically about $1,300 a month have to run everything that we run. And so that's we just we just ditched the ln pay notes. So that saves us 450 a month. So that that 500 that dropped off is going to is okay we can we can eat it. And it

might might add that you and I personally pay taxes over the money that comes in even though we don't pay ourselves.

We do this because it cost me three grand last because

it costs money. We're not crying, but that that's just how it works. You know, that's just what it is. And we're happy. We're fine with that.

And I'm scared of what is going to be this year. But um, I'm hoping I did my math right? It's

gonna be $500 less per month, that's for sure. If

if under less so you know, because we're about to have to do this. We're about to have to get my brother in law to do our taxes for the LLC. And he and

he doesn't work for every nice family member you got there? No.

Nobody, nobody. Nobody works for Nobody, not even family. Except us. That because because we have what what I've always wanted and you concur is to have at least five years of cushion built up to where you have the donations dropped to zero. Yeah, we could keep on truckin and not miss a day for five years. Yeah, because we made a promise. And in order to keep the promise, we have to have enough, just flat out cash to pay the bills. So that's and we're on track. We're

And all the stats stay on the node. And if you need liquidity, let us know now, but happy to open up a nice fat channel to you.

But um, I'm totally cool with Chad F doing that. I think it's great because it it shows. It shows I mean, it's pretty accurate. I mean, that's his math is pretty spot on as far as I can think he is. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, yeah, I think it's great. I think I think just this, this sort of like spirit of openness. I think I think the podcast industry as a whole would benefit from that there's way too much secrecy and going on. So Debt stats and everything is just oh, that's falling

you know, like, they never really needed the IAB. The advertisers aren't stupid. They have spreadsheets they know who know whose numbers are what and they discounted. Your numbers or X, Y or Z. I know what they are. So the IAB is just a farce.

Yeah, basically it is.

Let's thank a few people. I'm going to thank the people who came in with live booths pod home 30,000 SATs. Thanks, brother. Very nice. The Dutch guys up late. Sam Sethi. 10,000 SATs glad to hear that REL equals me is now part of the conversation activity streams will be soon I hope we need to discuss this smiley face. Yes, we will. We'll have you on Sam.

No, you good luck.

Brother. Okay. All right. Well,

you're on you're on my prayer list. Yes.

Top of the prayer list, blueberry. Dred Scott 4567. Don't cross the streams. Lol. Chad F with 333 This is the TIC tock model keep the tribes separate. Yes, exactly. He came up with the same conclusion I did. Another 4567 from Dred Scott says pew pew pew pew pew another 4567 Sass from Dred Scott testing que pues not hearing them on the live stream Yeah. What I opened up the pew pew pew pew and then he comes in with 45,678 Dred Scott going crazy says don't get your finger

DMX is it what is that?

I don't know. Okay. Oh, I think DMX is a lighting protocol. It's like

okay, like to control RGB stuff. Yeah, I

don't know if it's RGB but it's DJs use it to control lighting rigs, I think. Okay. Yeah, it's kind of like MIDI MIDI for for lighting lights. Yeah. Let me see what else we have here. I'm scrolling through a lot of a lot of different boosts here. No, I hit the limiter. So that's it for the live boosts and you're up.

We've got we've 01 off papers this week. Good work. Everybody goes apropos to the discussion we

There you go. Thank God we have a little kitty.

That's right. That dip into the pot James Crillon satchel Richards through fountain he says wait a sec. Those activity pub postings mean that every podcast can get crosstab comments if there isn't even a social interact then just use the posting that's correct James Yeah, the red and it's tribal

that yes, that mean when I saw that I went Oh, holy crap. That is very smart.

That up in 96 was a lot of things actually. That'd be 1984 4000 SATs through fancy says last 10% listener boost. Oh, he made it past the 90% mark. Thank you. I'll be mere mortals podcast as everybody Kyron 2223 foundations will know $30 million marketer but I would like to claim the V for V consultant title. Courtney finally just released our Convo on podcast bestie recorded six months ago

yes

I didn't talk about V for V music much would be great to stream boost that episode to give her a taste of authentic peer to peer real time no dodgy statistic feedback.

So we so we got to stream that episode by the way. I just got 2000 from from Barry from pod home he says it seems you still have me in the splits. That's a mistake. Probably right. Yep. It was. may enjoy a bonus. Bonus. bonus for you brother bonus. Yeah.

Kudos to Barry for saying that because he could have just remained silent. He may. He may have stayed in there for weeks.

No, that's the next guest would have changed that but yeah, that was my mistake

History podcast bestie let's see. Oh, here it is. Yeah, okay, I'm downloading that right now. I got to see what else we got here we got 1701 Oh, that's Mike Dale's gotta be Yep. Mike now through cast Matic he says hi from the snow globe of Michigan well hello from the freezer of Birmingham Alabama.

Yeah chilly in the hill country.

Balderdash boy is 33 333 through fountain he says thank you for all your help and all the great info weekly go podcasting sir west of beer bourbon and molar.

Yeah, those guys are cool.

Yeah, good guys. Sir Brown of London 21 948 through cast magic is is remember what I'm aleck Google Facebook Apple did to you.

Always Always bring what does that noise?

And Emma like that's the Jewish Yeah, the

the enemy. Family. Enemies. Yes, we got it.

Thank you, Brian. Unite Gomez 3219 through pod versus boosting from the Basque Country. Now what is Basque? Basque? That's

in Spain. Boom. So the Basque Country. Your

name? You're near Albert Alberto. I guess from maurices.com. Give me Give a shout good lunch.

Very, very first sentence and 10,000 SATs back to us. Didn't have to do that. And to do that.

Yeah. Go buy a beer. source D send a 1701. As our buddy Archie says only a technician don't think I can get on 20. Get on 20 in. Say

again? Oh, 20 meters?

Yeah. Okay.

No is the tech wait as a technician? You can? I think you know, the 120 meters. But yet, you may not be able to do I forget this a ham radio talk? I'm not sure exactly anymore. But you can look it up. But I think you can go on 20 meters, but not like at some others you can't go on. But you want to get general just go for general, you could

do it. How big is a 20 meter antenna is pretty big,

right? Well, a full length antenna will be 20 meters. 60 feet. Yeah, that's huge. But I have an n fed Zeplin antenna, which is just a wire as an end fed zip baby, a wire would that transformer on one end. And it's about it's probably about 20 feet, something like that. I mean, you got I got an antenna tuner, you can take a clothes hanger. And you know what the bet the coolest antenna is a loop antenna. What does that so a loop antenna is literally a loop

So it's so it's a 20 meter antenna, but it just in the loop.

It's the loop can be pretty small. Look at chameleon loop chameleon loop they sell and it's basically just a loop wire with a loop on the inside and in a big box. And that box has a huge capacitor. air gapped and you just tune it and you're good to go.

Because I think I think we I think I certified my novice license on like to meter.

Well, novice doesn't exist anymore. Right? Yeah, that mean this is back in? Yeah. Two meter. Just Yeah. Two meter just on the handheld stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

That means 60 feet. That's your whole backyard. Yeah,

but maybe you don't you don't need a full wavelength. No one uses a four way link. Hit me up on Vare. See everybody keto five alpha, Charlie, Charlie.

We get oh, the delimiter Comstor blogger 4000 sets through fountain he says that he fell a bit corners Dave and he's calling Asus fellow Bitcoiners that he's calling himself a bit

of Bitcoin. Okay. Well, welcome.

Call Mr. Bhalla. Yes. Hello. How do you feel a Bitcoiners David Adam, please invite your listeners to listen to just two good old boys podcast at WWW dot just two good ol boys.com. Join Ben and Jean in their thought provoking podcast as they tackle a wide range of topics from the complexities of politics and global events in 2024 to personal anecdotes and technological musings. This podcast offers a candid and unreservedly discussion. Yo CSB.

Listen, comics. Your blogger does everything with Chad TPT these days. He just he just said right to boost the gram for this podcast and that's what Chad GPT did they give him that? That's how he rolls. I'm telling you, I can see it I see his post is all Chad GPT when he comes up with some like, this is how I feel today. It's like a whole Chad GPT output You're not fooling me

CSBG PTS Are we sure CSB still exist

no he auditory AI. He's just he's just become AI. He does not exist anymore.

He's been AFK for like a year and a half probably at this point. And the other one I know we get a monthly conflicts right? Got Paul Saltzman $22 2016 Thank you, Paul. Daymond Cassie, Jack $15 Derek J. Vickery, the best name in 2.0 is $21 Er and Rosenstein $1, Jeremy Garrett's $5, Michael Hall, $5.50, and Trevor at zener out of Australia $5. And that's our group.

What a good group a good looking group. Also, thank you very much for supporting this value for value projects and podcast. If you'd like to learn more about value for value, go to value number four value dot info. And to support this value for value, podcasts and project go to podcast index.org Scroll down to the bottom there are two red donate buttons. There's one for your Fiat fund coupons. That's the Pay Pal which we of course, accept and we appreciate that.

Do them all do them all?

Well, yeah, load up your wallet and send us some boosts and a booster grant we'd love to read them we'd love to thank you personally on the show and thank you for so much for supporting podcasting 2.0 The whole kitten caboodle

but we just had just got the live the podcast and tip window live from the AP bridge eight minutes ago.

Way to go all right. Hey, it works.

We barely met we made it technically still like you're considering

I forgot to send it

technically still love it, brother.

What's coming up for this week for you over this weekend. Anything I think from fun, you're hanging out with the family just trying to stay warm. Trying

to stay warm primarily got got Christmas, celebrating Christmas with the in laws that we were not able to do very late Christmas celebration. So yep.

You have gifts.

Yeah, we got gifts. We did have gifts. We're not coming empty handed

stuff that you that you got from somebody else. Like I really don't want this. I think I'll give that to my in laws. And this is probably

the best the best habit. Because he just picks through and just get you just get rid of all the stuff you don't like. boardroom.

Thank you very much for attending everybody there in the chat. Thank you all so much. Thank you for all that you do. This is a cast of hundreds who who really work on this project. It's app developers, its allies, allies of the app developers. It's podcasters it's not jobs. It's a crazy band. I love all of you Dave my brother, thank you so much. And we'll be back next

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 to visit podcast index.org. For more information,

go podcast. I think the kids call this based