Episode 161: Cooking with Sterno

Oh, podcasting 2.0 for December 29 2023 Episode 161 We're good with sterno all hohoho hello everybody welcome to podcasting 2.0 The official board meeting that encompasses all of podcasting go nowhere else all you need to be is right here the only boardroom that has meetings during vacations and

barely made it. But I got it. I got a piece I got a big chunk of tape, copper tape between the road caster and my USBC cable.

I gotta I gotta get some of that that sounds like a really good idea. Instead of the fair IQs

there's like a roll it comes in a roll so like it looks like it's the size of duct tape. But it's it's just copper foil so here's why I got it

yeah, I was gonna say what do you typically buy that for not to not to shield your USB cables no doubt

about it to line sorry, though to line the inside of my guitar, electronics cavities where they route the guitar body out because guitars they're not balanced balanced input same things

you got to you got to pick up literally a pickup that is there to pick up all kinds of stuff. Yeah, noise

guitar electric guitars are basically noise amplifiers. Yes.

We discovered a Dave had a little weird noise how the road caster and I immediately said move the USB cable. And he did and it worked was great. It was

like magic. And immediately it was gone. But the problem is my USBC cable. Yeah, is always already stretched to his limit. So okay, wanting to always go back and rest on top of the XLR jack. So I just put some copper foil there. I feel like we're in good shape. I know I don't hear any hizzy

I think I need some of this copper foil tape to keep my tinfoil hat in place.

You basically make a build up yeah, what the hell this thing's what's the rooms that you make out a coil? Oh, I

mean a Faraday Faraday cage Faraday cage. Yeah. You're

gonna Faraday cage your head.

Well, Dave, here we are. It's the end of the year. It's another year of podcasting. 2.0 We're still friends. I love that. We've been friends now. Is this our 13th year 14th year? No more even maybe? Oh, 14th year I think

we started to freedom controller what? 2010 or 2009. So I'm like, almost as

long as two wives put together

we've never had a fun never.

We never had a fight. Actually never. I don't think we've ever had a fight. I

can't remember one. No, no, it was it was a tiny one. And I don't remember and I moved on fast.

Implying that it was my fault. Nice.

You took the bait

was It was fun listening to some of the year end shows? Listening to Todd and Rob and then listening to the podcast industrial complex on the although somehow they slipped you in? How did you get in the door?

See, I just I've gotten pretty good at that about just it's like do you remember in the office when that? That woman she just went and sat in the office and set up all our stuff in nobody in? She just became the manager just because she interloper. Yeah, exactly. I just interlocked my way into into various

podcasts this year. Yeah, that was good. That was good. I'd like that. But otherwise, like, we don't

know why he's here. But I guess we'll play him anyway.

And then was the the media roundtable which is just it's become a favorite. Listen, I don't want to say hey, I don't want to say hate listen, because I don't I don't hate them at all. No, not at all, you know, but I just listened to him. And I, I feel I felt bad. Because everyone's you know, kind of demure, and you know, it's all going down. And we don't know how to count downloads or impressions or whatever. We don't know what to count anymore. And it's confusing and

No, no, I was listening closely. And I liked the media roundtable too, because it's like a it's like a window into the mind of the podcast industrial complex into the

dark soul. The soul is dark hole of the podcast industrial complex. You're staring

weakly into complex places hold

the abyss. Yes. And

it's depressing sometimes.

Yeah. I'm so amazed by again. We'll get to that. I think you have some clips. So I'll reserve my comments, perhaps until you play those so we can just because we got a lot of other stuff to talk about.

Yeah, for sure.

You want to play these clips? Your viewers because Mr. does that stand for media roundtable?

It does. C stands for let's just

get it out of the way so we can move forward and get ready for 2024.

Okay, so the, you know, we've been on this on this tip million on the tip of what, what is the real reason why podcasts wide, the term podcast is getting redefined writing anything, especially YouTube videos. And they sort of they always dance around when I say they I mean, the podcast industrial complex, which the podcast industrial complex for these, for purposes of this discussion, is I'm defining as the digital the digital advertising, ie buyers, and brokers and agencies

and researchers, and researchers and press.

And press yes. All of the everybody attached to digital advertising, who is then layered on top of the podcast infrastructure. So they're basically using podcasting as just another digital advertising channel. So they don't have any really inherent loyalty to podcasting as, as a medium. It's just, they just happen to be there tomorrow, it can be something else. So we know that, you know, they say these things in in this way. But this is like the clearest example that I've

liked her the best I'd liked her the best of all the people I heard. Yeah, she was interesting. I'm not heard of before. Yeah, great name, too.

So she was saying that, that she's got a real problem with her, she hates the fact that this the YouTube videos are being called podcasts. And this in this discussion ensues, which contains basically the clearest explanation of the way this thing works. And then and then she she asks a follow up, and it clarifies it even more. So. The she they ask the host, what, you know what the deal is with with all that on the buying side? And basically what he says is a

here's how I would look at it, on behalf of the buying community is that complexity is not our friend. You know, if you think about, I think that, that large agencies and large brands have to create a bunch of rules. And right now they draw their lines, all different places. So some people put podcasts in their radio line items, some people put it under digital because they're streaming heavy. Some people have a digital audio line item, but how that is coded for a brand when they set their

Oh, man, hold on a second. A couple of words I wrote down by buying community brands community podcast influencers and native audio conversations.

Like knack.

NTR is knack. Okay.

Hey, you have a knack for potty podcast influencers? Who Who would that be?

It's it's a it's a well informed the whole thing is what is being ignored here is the actual audience who gives a crap as long as we got some numbers only got influencers, I think are people who you do native ads, basically. Okay,

okay. That's funny. He's doing his brand. Yeah. Okay.

It's using something or he's talking about something. YouTube is filled with these, of course, I mean, even in the, in the, in our space. In our in the podcast space. You see guys who were reviewing mixers and microphones, their influences whether they're getting paid for it or not. They're influencers because they're talking about a brand unboxers all this stuff. It's all that was all it's all kind of geared towards commerce

She so Skye Pillsbury follows up just to make sure that the because that that was, as you mentioned, that reply was it was clear in its structure, but it was muddled with a lot of like, you know, jargon, industry jargon. So in the digital ad space jargon, so she makes a follow up to clarify and make it even simpler, what's going on.

But you're saying it's interesting, because what you're saying is that it actually what I'm seeing as complicating what a podcast is, you're saying, actually keeping the term podcast, even if it's on YouTube, keeps it simpler for the advertising buyer. And and that makes complete sense to me. So yeah, because otherwise, they've got to go across the hall and go to the influencer team and go, Hey, can I get some of your revenue

here's what I like about this. This shows that the media, the buying community are idiots, because the idiots are they don't care that there's probably more like they don't care. Right? Yeah. And I was in this I built a $450 million a year revenue company with 700. Employee a co built, I should say, was 700 employees. And we did this I know all the acronyms. I made up acronyms. The I sold statistics, do you

was prolonged. Yeah, what

they call networks, you know, and all of that. I know this because I failed at it myself. It took 10 years, and we had the video bullcrap come in. It's just a complete repeat. So it's easy for me to to see what's happening and to predict what will go down. Because obviously, the next thing is, we'll just make podcasts for brands. Here's the Acura RDX podcast. I mean, that's what it always devolves to. But the thing that was interesting, was, they asked, and this is where

denigrated. They denigrated radio a lot. And I'm sure it's not because they hate radio. It's not mean they're they're radio people. It's because they they think it's a dying a dying medium. But the thing is radio still makes so much money. More more money than podcasting. Well, I mean, in in, like, if you're, if you're saying they use the term, the radio ification of podcasting and how that's a bad thing. Well, I mean, it's the radio ification of podcasting means

the Okay, so here's the issue with radio. Radio, hear myself back from the I don't know why you have a fader open or something represent things. It could just be doesn't matter. One, two to three days ago, that's where professionals is it? I don't know what it is. It's like it's might become through headphones. I don't know. Oh, gosh, probably not. I don't know it could be for me. Radio down, I'll turn it over

is happening. Yeah, radio is springing free of the regulated gatekeepers who manage what you've been here, since radio was invented. It's jumping into the hands of anyone at all was something or nothing to say.

And that was the beauty of it. You could do whatever you wanted. No gatekeepers. You don't hear anywhere, like we can make money now we don't need you and we can make money your own. No, none of that was there that was never, never in play, that I fall into that trap, of course. But that was never the original intent. And then the digital media industry, decided to call the podcasting, space, an industry and started and decided to call podcasters Indies. I really,

Who Who are these guys is a podcasting executive podcasting

executives remain incredibly bullish on growth in the sector, with an eye toward creating multiple revenue streams for creators, and using artificial intelligence and video to expand the audience. So this is bullcrap. This is utter, utter utter bull crap. Artificial Intelligence and video will expand the audience. There's no evidence for this other than internal research. And we went through that in the last show how you can get the answers you want from the

This is an interesting comp. This is an interesting line of line of thinking. I'm just sitting here listening to you talk about this and it reminds me so last night. So I listened to this podcast called The Lord of spirits.

Oh, yeah. I've subscribed to those guys. Yeah, since

you a couple episodes. And it's a couple of Greek Orthodox priests who just kind of you know, chew the fat about biblical topics and Philly and ain't your family. Yeah. Ancient Faith. Yeah. Flood, you know, all sorts of flotsam and jetsam. And they discuss all kinds of things very, very knowledgeable people and some it veers off often into other into other topics but so there's this episode leasing found a time while you're fighting

that I just want to respond meatus BS your dishwasher, cleans and dries really well. You're still handling the plates twice. You put them in, you take them out where it could go in one fell swoop and you're done for the night. Nothing Just nothing to do in the morning.

This let's see where is it?

I'm sorry. He says our dishwasher cleans and dries really well. But I buy her flowers often. Wow. Wow. Well,

there was a punch line. Shaggy Dog, wouldn't it Well played sir.

Yeah, enjoy your new year. Tell me how the couch is. Let's see where am I can can find that oh, here it is here. It's the art inside the name of this episode is The Art and Science of techno Mansi. So, techno Mansi is an interesting word. This is about this episode was about technology. And so you know, last year I read the book, the technological society, by Jacques Aaloo. And one thing, he's what he said in that book mates up really well with what they were talking about in this

Well, there's a first of the moniker AI is just wrong. I mean, I have a road caster, you couldn't call the processing that it does AI. I understand what it is I can create a noise gate from a competing limiter and compressor. I know how to do it, I understand it. I've done it with tube products. I understand what it is. And this is it's been baked into a tool. This is very old technology. If you want

I would you plug in you plug in a bunch of prompts to plug in a bunch of wording to stable diffusion or what's the other thing the other? The other big image generator? Dolly? Yeah, you plug in a bunch of stuff to that. And it gives you something crazy that you didn't expect. And in the AI advocates, the will they'll just say well, your your prompts weren't right. But go to he didn't You didn't we didn't word it correctly, because your incantation was right. You said one of your he

back. Go to the no agenda, art generator.com Go back 20 pages. And you'll see when these things came into play. And guess we choose some of them. But in general, the art has gone downhill. Because it's all kind of the same thing kind of as the same look of the true artists. Hopefully they come through the I think they're even discouraged from time to time. Don't even upload any more because you know, this AI stuff and everyone's faster than I am. And you know, so it's it's

That's what I was thinking that in the journey stuff looks identical. Charts

and Rancors are bull crap. This is not the world of tomorrow. It's not even the world of today. It's a dying world, that it doesn't matter anymore. Joe Rogan biggest podcaster in the world, he's 5% of everything, and 5% and you don't need to be number one anymore. We're our little project here surviving just perfectly on a couple 1000 people who support it. We don't need to be number one of iTunes. We don't need iTunes promotion. We don't need to be. We have the

Kevin, we have an actual satanist who donates to the show we could add, probably concur. Was that? The Trevor guy from Australia? Oh, is this five bucks a month? Oh, thank

you. Thank you say yes.

Let us know if Satan is in is in favor of giving RSS to Google and YouTube.

So here's what no one talks about. Is the interactivity. This is this is where podcasting differentiates from radio, we, we have tools, we have ways to let the audience be a part of the programming. And quite honestly, you need to

Yeah, does it does we need to start figuring out we need to figure out a way to highlight that better on the show. Well, it's

also a way for it to be easier for people to see it and calculate it. You know, that's that's a part of it, because all stats packages helipad included are kind of built for just seeing what the booster grams are and you can output stuff for that. Some, I believe direct response and and what is it called? Forget the other term. When call to action. I believe that works. So forget the counting of downloads, no advertisers gonna care about that and 2024 anymore. They they

And I have cloud and you have cloud chapters, the ability to update in real time without having to touch the audio, it

can update later on all if they change the product. All of that is totally possible. And it's honest.

It's in the tracking pixels, because you're going to the site. Yes, response. Yes,

direct response. So I believe in that that works. Now I agree when again, now I'm gonna wind up this rap. So again, YouTube is evil. For Podcasting, it's fine for whatever it wants to be, stay away from it. We do video just fine. If you think that that's what you need to do. I don't believe so. I think I'll and I like Sky's take on that. She says her heart breaks every little time a little more every single time someone says that podcasting is YouTube videos or

You want to get into that you want to go through it. Yes, please,

because it's progress this week.

Let's see. I guess I'll start this by saying if you want if you want to stressed if you're building anything, activity, if you're building any sort of activity pub software, job and you want to stress tested, just make a post and reference an add an account. So like just make it you know, account accounts on Mastodon lactase layer, activity, Council and activity pub or are actors. So I'm just going to use that

One One quick note just to put slip in the tab. When I followed mo fax with Adam curry on my own Mastodon, my private Mastodon server he brought it up because I'm federated so you know, it knew about it already. Because I had already someone else already followed it to what it was before I even follow that on podcasting next out social and it brings it up but it doesn't bring up at least what it'd be great if it brought up one episode. It brings

it Okay, clean. This is a limitation of mastodon. Okay, because Master is a mastodon. This is where we talked about a couple of weeks into three weeks ago. inactivity pub world there is this notion of an outbox, and the outbox is everything you've ever posted. So if you go to the outbox, for mo fax activity pub on the activity pub bridge, if you go to the outbox, you'll see all the previous episodes as posts.

here's a weird question. Got the if i pod pinged mo facts, right now, would that trigger that an episode updating to the mastodon AP bridge?

No. So okay, so this the interactions here took took a lot took a lot of time for me to understand because it's not intuitive. Imagine a clean Hedlund to describe this. Okay, so imagine that your mastodons your private Mastodon server had never followed the math demo facts show. Right? Nobody on the on your server had ever done anything like

I don't have to imagine it because that's true.

Okay, all right. The Okay, so what should what normally happens in that case is you follow it, initially the profile will be blank. So when you pull it up, your Mastodon server has no previous posts that it knows about, right. And it will initially show that there's been disabled no show no previous history, you have follow. And then that puts the fact that puts the app puts mo facts into the database. Okay?

your server. Okay, so an actual new episode has to come out for that to happen. Right?

Yeah. And so this and so you'll you will see the next one got in when it when it posts going forward, the next person on your server who follows that will see any posts that they have accumulated. So you're now your Macedon server going forward will begin to get those posts. Then when somebody goes and looks at the profile profile, they'll see all that previous stuff. It'll be like a filled in profile.

Oh, so that will happen? Yes. It

begins to fill things in as it goes. Ah, yeah, it's a little it's a little aggravating because the outbox thing is right there. It could in there are there there are. There's a big thread on the GitHub issues for Mastodon with people begging for them to backfill those outbox and

yeah, because we never don't you click on the the way that Mastodon works when you click on the go to what does it go to this? What does it say here? For older posts from other sort of poses, if you want browse more on the original profile at the bottom, when you click that, it just gives you like, code.

Yeah, JSON? Yeah. I don't know if you see this in ERIC PP, posted a link to the outbox thermofax. And if you if you go and check that JSON out, what you'll see is all these these are all the

previous Yes, yes, yes, yes, I see it. Yeah, it would be very easy for

a mastodon server to just look at this and just pull it and just pull it in, but they don't. So that is what it is the thing you're talking about where it has, where you click on the More, you know, more on this profile. So one thing that Mastodon does, I don't know about other activity pub servers, I think they probably do something similar. But for sure Mastodon does this is it uses what's called the accept

I mean, you already have the web you already have the website in there. I mean, you have I liked the joined I like that field showing up. So the promo fax it shows Joe in November 8 2023. Oh, that's just want to join okay. It has the index page and has the website. Take Then from the, from the feed and the podcast good. Yeah.

And that you can put it you can tag put anything in here that needs to be in here like, you can stack up. These are just key value pairs. So if we want to put other stuff in there we can. So

what what I love about this, what is so logical is I will now i will post my feed, update my feed. And then I'll go to the mastodon and I will boost boost the post of that episode and use that that URL as my base URL for comments. For social interact for socially interact. Yes.

Yeah, for sure. Yep. And, yeah, that you're you're, you're, you're seeing, you're seeing what I'm thinking.

Oh, totally. Totally seeing it.

Okay, so. Yeah. So this is this is working well. We've worked with Alex to make sure that it was going to did it was everything was kosher with Pleroma. And so the program is working, working as well. If anybody if anybody is using other software besides Pleroma and Mastodon, check this out for me and do and bug reports so that we can get these things fixed. Most of the problems come down to JSON deserialization problems.

Yeah, I hate when that happens. The D serialization always bites me in the ass. It

does. It's an ass butter. So everything is everything is just jaded. activitypub is just pushing JSON around everywhere and, and the good thing about rust is it has wonderful JSON deserialization module called SerDe. That is amazing. And it's good, but you but it is it does take a lot of fiddling to get these things correct. So we need to just make sure that all of these things or all these different types of

you kept restarting your stream or something's like a million Dave's going live again. They are still not sleeping. He's live again.

I was so close this, this is this is interesting. You know, we we talked, we went back and forth. A little bit about this. JB 55 on noster. He's the guy that writes Domus. Yeah. And he made a post or Serie A lot of lot of posts yesterday about basically how Domus is, is just bleeding money. And this is probably the end of the road for 2024 is probably gonna be the last year for Dominus. At least for his development. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuz it's just not. It's not financially sustainable.

I did send him 100,000 Set zap and said, consider this. Yeah, it was funny. He actually replied. He said, I love that about no agenda. I'll consider it as like, Please, man. All right.

Well, so the the Nasus. See, another post that he made that was interesting was that noster noster is from what he said is about 10,000 users. And about 50% of those he estimates our own dominance. Yeah, I would say that's probably right. Yes, if Dominus disappears, 50% of nostre disappears, and many of them probably will not come back. They'll just Bell back to Twitter.

You know, what's funny? Sorry to interrupt.

No good.

A lot of the development discussion about noster happens on telegram that tells you something. Yeah, that's interesting tells you something that is pretty interesting.

But then, but the reason I'm the only reason I'm bringing this up is that last night, I saw him posting that he was doing a whole bunch of stuff with nostrud DB, like a bunch of like, low level. Oh, yeah, he's

building a huge database to circumvent the whole relay going away issue.

And so and I was, it was interesting, because you're like, in the one hand, you post, you know, this software is going to die. I can't sustain it. But then you you spend hours building low doing low level coding on this product that's, this is aimed for the grave. And I think it's because, like, like

we're on a second hold on. If you're gonna if you're gonna do that let's do it properly.

Oh Tom machine here we go

back in time to 24 year old Dave

24 year old Dave was messing around was deep into assembly language and discovering the joy of networking for the first time in the first time that you are able to bring up a TCP socket and send a message from one computer

that's like booster grams for me yeah same thing it's like I can do it on this thing and it shows up over there been a complete different thing and we didn't even know who we are where we were

that that was being addicted to interrup was what created the internet it's It's why people like Dave Weiner got so addicted to to internet technology is because it's it's all it's just all an expression of of interop and it's so much fun and even if you know that your product is basically doomed you still you still you're doing it because you're addicted to do that you're not addicted to the product you're addicted to the experience of it and the experience of creating it so

Where are you are you are you back you're back in the future now

yes, I've traveled I've

read from this day going back to the only America first

sorry I didn't expect it to be that I thought it was a different time machine

we're in a weird dimension that we go through we're in a weird dimension now yeah

we popped out so yeah, so if I was so close to getting pod ping working

I feel you I feel you because

what we know obviously what you want the the new episode posting that was working fine. You haven't you posted new episode shows up as opposed on Mastodon or own activity pub. No problem. Now it's not complete without live right? I mean, if you if your podcast goes live you are the one you really want to know about in one place you really want to know about it is we want to know about it on your own Mastodon of course on social media. So this required work,

I love it. So I mean, you basically build the world. You build the world's biggest podcast app.

If it's automatic like that, that's pretty fun. Yeah. Yeah, it's that's that's pretty funny. So if you if you look on see if I can read this if I can to read to this. Yeah, I just did. Okay. So on the podcast index dasa, so I just reposted what I got when we went live earlier. Okay. And it's. So the way it works is it's using for now it's using John Spurlock's website, pod ping WebSocket. So, he has a WebSocket where he publishes every pod ping event that

what what is this account?

So I know it's just add 9200666 at AP dot podcast index.org.

Oh, our show. Okay. Right. Yeah, I gotcha.

And so the what? So if if I if it if it's live, if it's got a live show that's going on right now, in relation to the pod ping that is saw, it then sends out a new post, from that account, to all its to all the followers saying, you know, podcasting 2.0 Episode 161 is live now. And aniline to listen to the live stream, at with album art. So that's, that's we got that working. Got that working finally, this morning, a

as I said, you just built the world's biggest podcast app.

He really did. Yeah, it's it's funny. It's like a bunch of pieces. It's like a skeleton of an app. This

Mastodon is an app. But now anybody can create an app. And use activity pub, if I'm just following along here, as as their connection to the index, thus, the hence the Fed ification of the index. So you're not hitting our API directly. But you're getting the same data for shows that are subscribed to. Right.

Right, you can say that it's kind of like, it's kind of like pod paying in the sense that it becomes if you follow shows this way. And this apps can follow shows as well as people like if you follow shows in this way, it becomes push instead of pool. Right? But

pod pod ping and RSS feed are all published side.

Right? Yes,

I mean, that's, that's that's all I mean, and of course, anybody can circumvent the index by using pod ping. At least for those shows that you don't have to pull. But it makes man my head is is like I almost want to open up a whole new Mastodon private Mastodon, just for podcast now. Well, we didn't hashtag it needs to have we need a hashtag to flow along with this. So Oh, yes. Cool. So I can filter Yeah.

What is the hashtag neat there. We've got the we've got some some things to talk about. What what is the hashtag need to be?

Podcast? Hashtag podcast index?

Well, maybe

podcast bridge hashtag podcast bridge.

Okay, that could work. We can always change it later. If we've done it with someone else. Let me see if that's something you can filter on. Yeah.

Yeah, well, it's not being used that I can see off course. Stuff that I've got.

Well, so one of the things that I want to do and I want your you know, I want you to give me your advice here is that so right now, it just gives a link to the episode in which is fine, but, you know, clearly, I feel like it needs to have links to to the apps Yeah, it needs to have links to like me know, pod verse podcast guru. You know, found fountain native links. Yeah, native native links. So that's because people don't

we need shows Chiclets, Chiclets. What Sure.

I mean, I think that needs to be on there because, like, it's, if you're in a pinch, and you have to listen to it, because all it's going to do right now is is gonna

open up an mp3 file in a web browser. Sure.

And that's kind of lame. I mean, like, No, you don't you don't be You're going to lose that position. And it's just not a good experience that something,

this is something that you could set or configure yourself so that it has those links that you want. I'm not sure I'm just shooting around. I'm not sure if that's possible.

Oh, yeah, I think it would be, I think it would be possible via the interaction to get that set up would be a little awkward. You'd have to interact with it as some sort of bot, you know, where you send it, you know, hey, here's what I want. And it's sort of records that in some way. I think it would probably over time, we could figure that out. But I guess I would ask that the app developers, send us the dog send me documentation on how you generate your links. One

other thing I'm just gonna mention real quick. album art is not changing. For whatever reason,

on what, so

if you go to no agenda for 1504, but you can just search no agenda, it's already in there. They have two episodes. 1619 which is the one with Santa Claus with a naughty and nice list. And then 1620, which had a different which also has the Santa Claus and the the profile image is also still the Santa Claus. And it should be a poop emoji with the recycle arrows around it.

Okay, so that's, let me see what

you don't know if that's caching or

it probably is. Yeah, the caching Mastodon caches the hell out of everything. There, there might that's probably I'll probably need to put that on the bug list to figure out if there's a way to invalidate the cache and make it pull a new one. Okay. Eric, PP says the bridge has the new art. So it's it's Mastodon

caching, okay, because yeah, I followed it on my private server. And even though I don't have a post there, because I just subscribed to it. It does have the new art as the profile art.

Okay, Nathan, Nathan says he has. He has some tricks up his sleeve to get to fix that problem. Okay, cool. With Portland, he's talking about the lanes. Can I just

stop you for a second? Okay. Yeah, sure, brother. What a great job you've done here. This is I'm so excited by this. I too, am excited by interrupt. Because to me, it's broadcasting. And I was like, Oh, look, another huge radio just appeared. Look at this massive radio that now everybody can follow my shows in. And they'll be notified, they can click the alarm bell. It can pop up. There's, there's apps for it. I mean, obviously, we have a way to go. But the the

you. Yeah, that. Oh, thank you. Thank you, first of all, and then, you know, think I think this is this is, uh, this is the beginning of the end of the bridging thing that we talked about. And this is, this is how we begin to decentralize. And if, if apps begin to interact, here, I feel like okay, so I feel like we need to, we need to exempt we need to exemplify what it means to be able to in interop. So API's are fine, but bring in a public bridging is activity Pub has

it's supported. Yes. It's battle tested. It's been out there a long time. Luckily, we now know. Thanks to our friends over there from the the right wing hackers. We know, we know how to go past blocks. You see that article? You sent it to me? Yeah. I love that.

You just signed it with a different domain.

Hilarious.

So is this the code I will put live here in the next couple of days. And it made me I mean, the public, I will make it public in the repo. It's got a it's got a key only thing keeping me from do it. Way. The only thing keeping me from doing it is I was lazy. And I hard coded the podcast index API tokens into the code, but just need to pull that out. Yeah, you might want to pull that up. Yeah, pull that out, put it in an environment variable and then we'll help I'll open it up and

here's the here's the immediate question I have. So right now if I'm searching for a show, let me just I'll do D. H unplugged. Home, you do that on the podcast index. Let me see th, unplugged. So that doesn't show up. So in order to get that I have to know, the index ID in order to add that, you know, so it'll be at index ID at AP dot podcasts. index.org. Is there? Is there an easier way more is? Do you have you already architected in your mind? How do we fix that? How

Yeah, and that's that's the biggest issue right now. I haven't figured out Oh,

I know. We I know how, okay, you surface a link on on the index page.

Oh, link to the account of the bridge account. Yeah.

So I can so I can search for it on podcast index.org. And then just click the link and it'll take me where it's copy link if I want. But just click the link and it will take me to my Mastodon account, supposedly. And I just click follow.

As I've gone back and forth about this in my head, because on the one hand, our shows account is 920666. I mean, that's unintelligible nonsense. But on the other hand, if you were to come up with some other means of, of naming the actor, so let's just say that it was podcasting to podcasting to Oh, at a pod dot podcast index.org that okay, that may work for us.

Yeah, we're naming the show with with number that was number five under the sea and stuff like that. That's no good. I don't know how to get make that on my keyboard. Yeah, no,

I don't I don't have the antsy layout for this or whatever this is.

Well, it just, you know,

I don't I don't know if it matters.

I don't think I don't think it matters at all. Honestly, I really don't. If you don't even know if you're slash Dave were slash user slash Dave because no one thinks of it that way. It's just I searched for Dave and I and a pop pops up a bunch of Dave's and I click that Dave. Yeah. Now that's interesting. If I do what I say when I search not just search for no agenda up pops it actually takes a bit Dame Jennifer animated no agenda Mike Miller no idea why and then it

The label? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's disenchanted. Yeah. See what you mean about this? Just? Because the invalidate I

mean, we all have to Yeah, that's that's one thing. But we all have to, I mean, shows will start to populate the fediverse as people start to follow them. So we'd love to build up my list, just for the experience just to see what it's like and how that works in Dave's podcast app. And then, of course, of course, I think having links to your favorite podcast player is a must. I mean, absolutely. So to and I'm pretty sure that for most of those apps, if I'm mobile, and I

Nathan's Nathan link to a GitHub repo, where he's got a bunch of research on how to generate the different podcast app links. Oh, cool. So I'll look into that he's gonna email that to me. I'll look into that and see if I can't come up with a quick way to do that. Right off the bat. And the you know, the other thing is if it's video, like if I go if it's a no agenda tube show and I and somebody you know, goes live with video, then it needs to be able to open up in a way that

Love it. So that's, you know, there's my next there's my next thing is, if I so choose, how do I get my booster grams to show up under each episode?

Yeah, okay. Well, that's, that's interesting. That's,

that's another bridge, right? I should be able to bridge or my node to the, to an account or somehow forces, whether I'm replying or whatever it is, I should be able to put that under there. Well,

that could be that could be something to put in the helipad. It could be something in health. So. Right. So what helipad could do is see the DPC the episode Yeah,

it knows the account. It knows the episode and say, Okay, well, I'm going to post the AP to the activity pub. I'm going to post to that episode post these booster grams. Yeah.

So when so the way Okay, so the structure, that's okay, let's talk about that for a second. The structure of a status or what you know, as a toot. In Mastodon parlance, it's a status in our note in activity pub world that has an ID as well and the ID is just a URL that links to what the links directly to the post. So as the permalink, the permalink and the permalink for these takes the form of the apt up podcast index.org/the actor, actors ID as a parameter, and the episodes

are Eric, Eric p p already posted in the in the boardroom. Yep, add a web hook thing to heli pad. Yeah, that's the technical term. Exactly. That's what you just said a web hook thing. To heavy pads. Man. I'm so excited by this.

Yes, I think I mean, I think I think we're, I think we're cooking here.

One one question. So if more people run bridges, what is the what is what is the advantage?

And I just fruit The advantage for now is just decentralization, you know,

it's the same thing. You're, you're running a bridge. Well explain to me

Tell me what a muddy block is somebody blocks them? Right now. moster is the only bridge that bridges activity puck to noster. And if somebody blocks that bridge, you're toast, you can't get any posts from one side to the other. But if there's 15 different bridges, we just flipped to a different bridge. So like, there's no there's no way to guarantee it. Guarantee that nobody ever blocks any of them. Right? Somebody could just be a cat and mouse game and just always be

hate all those people hate life who do that if they if they will. If you're blocking podcast bridges, you hate yourself. What are you doing?

Yeah, you're Yes, Satan's helper. Like so if you but if you could run your own bridge, and then keep it quiet like you run your own private Mastodon, you could run your own private bridge if you are so inclined for you and a group of people course and you know, so the, it's just having that software out there is having a software out there and the ability to have multiple bridges. I think just gives a little bit of it makes it it gives us It's

so Nathan G asked correctly if there's multiple bridges when a user search for mo facts get multiple results, I guess the answer is yes. Yeah, for sure. By the end, you just you subscribe to the bridge of your choice.

It just like if you had just like if I have multiple accounts, multiple ad Dave accounts on different yesterday, they would show

up. So you could always do your search will be mo fax, AP, or podcasts index. And we'll probably parse through it and find the right one or if I did want my own search, I'll do mo fax Adams private bridge.

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Yeah, we are cooking. We're cooking with propane.

sterno, baby sterno

sterno. Is that like the camping thing? Yes. I

love sir. No.

Alcohol jelly is always turnover.

Yeah, you can drink it. It's, then it's called Thunderbird. Mad Dog. 20. Right. That's right.

Okay, well, I think we're Yeah, I think that's pretty much the basics. And wow. So the other the other thing that I would like to happen with this, and I'm committing myself to do this right now is in the near in the near future in in January, at some point in January, I'm going to write a an explainer and go through the basics of what the bridge is doing. But with the aim of explaining activity pub, to podcast developers, because it's actually an extremely simple

do the app devs there's something they even need to think about? Is there reasons for them to start looking at this? If so, what if not? And

I think I think so. Yeah, I think so. Because, because activity Pub is the open source. It's now settled, I'm gonna say it is settled. Activity, pub is the king of open source commenting protocols. And remember, we're not on that chat, we're talking about, about, about commenting and activity. And it's the it is the is the king of those

So let me let me let me squeeze your your creative fruit. No. You're now Ainsley Costello then there's apps that have your music. And how do you use this with activity pub slash? Mastodon? How can you use this? Or what do you need extra to build your community around your music?

I think you have it. I mean, like you This is we talked about this before where you had this idea where the musicians are like, where do we send people? Like where do people go to interact with Yeah, music is posted now. Now the music it just it just posts itself.

And so really like really you want your own Mastodon server for eight bucks a month. Yeah, so you want to send people to a mastodon dot Ainslie costello.com Then people can you know and you met you have your your songs already there right do you have your dog already pre pre loaded followed every every followed everything so it all shows up and then you show up underneath your song saying oh here's here's how I made the song or I mean stuff like that okay okay

yes definitely that or or somebody can grab the code once I posted and create a music specific bridge Stop

it even be not yet the codes not up yet slow down slow down slow down

yeah we get you music specific bridge wow where it's artist focused for summary that who knows. I mean, that's the thing is the gig. Yeah, we

don't know. We don't know. But we don't know. All the possibilities are out there. This is dynamite brother. This is so cool. Thanks. This is it makes me excited about Mastodon Yeah,

Mastodon got boring. Yeah, makes it not boring. Yeah, yeah.

For bit for a bit here for a bit. Let's thanks some people. I gotta get you out on time. We have rove ducks here. 2222 from salty crayon. And he says hello boardroom what an exciting 2023 was in the podcasting 2.0 universe. I went from onboarding I am Texas slim, to creating my own V for V music podcast, which is upbeats You gotta listen to it. All. Thanks, everyone that is running with scissors that made this all possible can't wait to see what we do in 2024. We're at the top

Oh, mama. Yes, I

think I know who that is. Yeah, angels mom.

And Julie Mom's got it go in.

That you just made it creepy Dave. Oh, sorry.

I meant Stacy's mom's. Okay. Thumbs up. We're

talking my language. Yes. I asked the question for you specifically music mama. We got circus media. Happy New Year. Adam and Dave go podcasting. And we have Dred Scott 4567 from Dred Scott. He just says head over there and boost boost. And another one from Dred Scott 45678 45,000 I think these days most of the

blades on the Impala and

let me see if we got anything else. Then I hit the delimiter so over to you.

Well, first of all the boys that rss.com

Send us a night I got a nice email from a nice email. The

email included a Pay Pal of $2,024

Holy crap

Sakala 20 is Blaze Oh on the hem Paula

it works better I can't do it that well. Anyway, thank you. So that's that's a New Year's boost a New Year's baller boost

Are you record I am we can we can we go and get ya boost. Boost boost.

Thank you so much. Wow, guys, thank you. Note

from Ben over there. He says hey, admin, Dave, we want to wish you and all contributors have time, talent and treasure. A very happy, successful and productive 2024 We're so excited for the future of podcasting is see so much more to come over the horizon. Your [email protected]

Thank you [email protected]. You guys are great. I appreciate that so much. There it is. As I said, We exist the whole thing is because of the decentralized nature of the podcast hosting companies. That's your ecosystem. Again, YouTube is evil. Yes,

Satan's helper. We have We have booster grand. That was our only pay pal. And it was a nice one. Thank you guys and we have boost though. We have chyron for one to eight. Do the podcast index, he says, listening to podcasts and 2.0 I've always felt like a security guard tuning into the boardroom the next day on grainy black and white security cameras. What shenanigans did they get up to the day before? Oh, Adam has

to all good night. Thank you. Kira. And we had a good time. That was a fun episode. I like that it was it was great to have you on and great to get your take was was really nice.

Sir Brian of London 101948 baller boost.

Hello Bala Sakala 20 is blades on the Impala

through cast Matic he says Merry Christmas boost. He's a Christmas Jew and wishing for a peaceful New Year of 2024 for the whole podcast in Tupelo family even when I mentioned hive runs pod ping on noster that we find where you're getting your gang tackled on the

only the only guy where I'd say I hope you have no fireworks on New Years.

Amen to that. Yeah. Thanks, Brian. Appreciate you buddy. Bad career advice. Chad satchel Richards 1111. He says regarding social comments, this was an interesting conversation. But it sounds like what was settled on was YouTube super chats with SATs, but decentralized and no requirement for a money transfer license. I think there is a recency bias on the part of Adam with his growing tired tiredness of NAS

Absolutely. And let me just quantify that. So it's no agenda social is just as gotten boring for me because it's just like this game to troll me. And so when I go there, it's not fun. It's like yeah, I can obviously a very thick skin but it's like I'm not going if I want to see interesting art I'm so I find myself going to the the live server button more than anything just to see what other people are posting, but I won't interact because if I interact,

Yeah. Versus the slow motion train wreck troll that happens in a in a mastodon chat. Yeah, see? Yeah,

that's all and of course, once I brought it up now, you know, that was the cardinal mistake. Oh, now we're gonna troll them all the time. He hates memes. Look, I've created Adam curry meme account, Hagner tag you and every meme I send. That's fun, and I don't want to be blocked and all the time. You know, it's like, sometimes things are funny, but people that's just the nature of this human nature. So, but to go to an Ainsley Costello account where you know, there's people

That's this is a basically. Mastodon or any social media. It's it's your mom. It's your parents house when your parents are gone.

Yeah, basically. Yes, exactly. I mean, so and I would expect Ainsley to have her own Mastodon server, and if she feels like there's someone out of control, she can take action. Yeah, yeah, whatever she needs to do.

Bad career advice chatter again. 1111 through fountain he says regarding Karen's view of booster grams. That is certainly one experience. The problem is that you don't want to project your thoughts on how podcasts should be experienced. Karen washes dishes never looked at the player. Bet career advice Chad for the sake of this example likes to burn his retinas with blue light staring at the same podcast art. Both experiences should be a common as should be

You can argue with Ken No argument of course, of course.

Bad career advice jab me he's burning up the airwaves, a 1111. He says that developers should be creating the experience that they think their customers would like the most popular will economically dominate podcasting 2.0 as he's composed 2.0 is a protocol should allow developers to be able to compete in an open marketplace. It does experience it does. It does. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

It does. Of course it does. I mean, yeah. And we've seen lots of differentiators between apps I love I use multiple apps for that very reason.

This Oh, he says a few. A few more. Satchel Richards he says, I'm going to drain my wallet 11111 at a time shitposting listening to this episode. We saw you both Thank you. Thank you.

I saw him to believe me. I

got helipad open 24/7

see oh music mama 100,000 SATs Whoa.

She be big baller music mom.

It Truly Madly Deeply grateful boosting is loving. Thank you music mama appreciate you. Thank

you. We appreciate you. You You gave your baby girl to us to to throw her into the RSS pool works and we gave her back better than ever.

That career advice chat again with a bachelor's she says boosting one more time because Christmas. George Orwell's road dogs 2222. He says Merry Christmas. Thank you, George Orwell appreciate that. Cole McCormick sent 5492 through fountain he says I need to share how I'm running with scissors in this moment. I really want to build up the for the cinema. I just posted my new little short film magic mushroom fun time. Did you see that?

Yes.

Oh yes, I

did that. Alex sent it to me. I was crazy and I love that it just popped open and pod verse played right there.

See I posted in my new short film, magic mushroom fun time oh no agenda tube and giving my team splits. I was heavily inspired by Fantasia. The whole movie is one homeless Moses song with me dancing and seeing wild shapes and colors. A combined V for V music, AI imaging traditional filmmaking techniques and magic mushrooms. This comes from the purest place in my heart please check it out if you have seven minutes. We

do. Oh Phoebe's Phoebe is Andhra magic mushrooms.

Attack mode. Let's see CASP eland 3693 found and he says no. Wait. No strolling sets. Oh, he

must make me scream screaming

no streaming sets on. Fountain. He says so many typos on fountain one point x. I think I need to update my profile. Cast. You're drunk. Yeah,

that's right. You're drunk.

That's That's it?

You're drunk. Sorry.

Forged fo 7777 Happy New Year. Well, Happy New Year. Do you forge folk? Jean Benson is 2222 through cast Matic he says Dave mark on the Linux matters podcast has been talking about fortifying his static blog. And I think he may have solved some of the same challenges you're talking about here. Here's the show and Mark is any links me to them? Okay. Well, thank you. Thanks, Jean. Appreciate that. Yeah, I'll follow him on mastodon.

A late entry from DS laughs 20,000 SATs love you too, even though I don't understand most of the tech.

Ernest, Ernest

ball he's a V for V music artist. So he's he's here for the ride. Yep, in the

mushrooms. Comic Strip. Bugger. 10,000 SATs through fountain that limiter he says Happy New Year 2020 for podcasting 2.0 team but your audio be crisp your content engaging in your subscribers multiplying faster than Tribbles on the Starship Enterprise? Yo, CSB. Yo

he's posting stuff now but he's that he's clearly he's I saw him on podcast index dot social. He posted something gave a rationale. He was like, this sucks. rationale, colons. Now it's all chat GPT output.

Come on, man. We see what's going on. We see what you're doing.

Every everything CSB says is in the form of a syllogism.

He's in Georgia, okay. He's important to us.

Thank you CSB. He's clearly emerged from his hibernation of December hibernate. Yeah. How

did the I want to know how your test went? He was he was doing a test he had like some big tests he had to study for for AI certification or something. Let us know. The

month Okay, monthlies, Jordan Dunnville $10 and dribs got $15. Michael Kimmerer $5.33 Pedro gan calvess $5. And that's our group. Beautiful.

Thank you all so much for another year in the podcasting 2.0 value for value ecosystem, as someone say ecosystem It's all value for value, you deliver your time, your talent, your treasure, and we keep moving the project

Got you got to get to try out that. That ISO. Do they see the asset says yes, that's a good one.

Okay. Yes. I'm gonna see you got a couple more. Do you mind if I check them all out for a second?

run and run it run? 100% Yeah,

I knew you were gonna do that one. Goodbye. Goodbye is good. Good. Okay, I think I have a good one for the end here. I'm gonna say that. Okay, but there's another one that I missed one. You

missed one you missed well. Oh, wow. All right. Every surfer gun

Wow. Wow. Man. Wow, baby.

All right, Dave. Hey, brother. Have yourself a great, great new year. We say in Holland in the old country say a year change have a great year change sounds sounds better in Dutch yard whistling

Yes. Sounds more like you're going to the to the audit. You know, it's like to get your tires.

Have a great year change? Yeah, a year rotation. There you go. Man. Thank you. I love you so much, brother. So much fun to do this with you. I enjoy my Fridays. I really do. I always look forward to Friday, always,

always do get excited, especially when there's something to share. That's good. Well,

great job on this. I can't wait to see where this goes. Wherever the whole group takes it. It's up to you guys and gals. Happy New Year boardroom. Thank you for being here for podcasting. 2.0 Episode 161 We'll be back in 2024 with more of your very own podcasting 2.0.

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org. For more information, go podcast.

Wow, it's orgasmic.