Episode 160: Forced Choice

Oh, podcasting 2.0 for December 22 2023, episode 160/4 choice. Well hello Better late than never. Hello, everybody. It's Tim once again for podcasting, the official board meeting of everything going on a podcast today and in the future we are in fact, the only boardroom that has red velvet beanbags after dark. Everything happened at podcast index.org The namespace all the goings on at podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill

Oh, I've got the sweetest rig. Do

you have the sweetest rig? Yes, your rig is so sweet. That

started the stream the stream deck courtesy of Adam curry Christmas present app so right in front of the road caster duo, which now the road caster do is elevated on on a stand. Ooh,

it's like it's got his own special little spot. Well, hold on. I have a I have some special here on my own stream deck. That's right, everybody. Welcome. board room after dark. That's right, baby. Enjoy our red velvet beanbags over the air. We got David sitting down there with his big stream deck. And down under. You know he's upside down. Ladies and gentlemen say hello to our friend on the way of the end. Mr. Kyron down.

Hey, I'm buzzing

you're buzzing you've got you got to chill, man. You're in the boardroom after dark. It's like we got the porn music going. It's like, you know. Challenge Challenge downtown.

I'm so happy right now. I was hoping that you would get some after dark music. I hear bones.

And I see the boardroom is Hello boardroom. That's right. Steven be kicking back. That's right, man. That's right. Want to talk? Way to go?

How hard is it in Australia current is it 1000 degrees.

At this very moment. It's not too bad. We've had a bit of rain coming. So it's I don't know, like high 20. Something like that. Are you wearing? I don't know what that's Fahrenheit.

Are you embrace Vegas or where are you African?

I'm definitely embrace Vegas. Yes. Yeah. So

he is a heatwave there. Yeah, yeah. I

mean, it definitely was feeling a bit it's mostly muggy. It's just the the humidity.

Weird, man. It's like, Christmas must just be messed up.

I've never I've never had a white Christmas or a cold Christmas. I've always been in a I was in Colombia for one of them, which was just motto. Yeah.

Hear about those white Christmases in Colombia? Yeah.

It actually took about four hours from me landing there to me being offered cocaine. So it was a little slow.

You must not have looked the part.

Oh, yeah, that's the thing. Cotton Gin. 20 b 20 degrees C is 68 Fahrenheit. And the screwy thing about about centigrade is that like every point one goes up, like 5000 degrees. So like, when you go from 20 to like, 20.8 year it like, you know, you're boiling water.

It's confusing. I'd like to Kelvin when we're in high school doing

hanging out inside stores. Are you Yes.

This is our year end. Are we going to do one more before before the end of the year? Dave? I mean, we're done. We're not gonna do one next next Friday. What is next Friday.

Good with next?

Why are we doing the specialist thing with chyron right now why are we doing

this? Because Karen's Great. Okay.

Yes, Karen. Karen bore you by by any chance able to watch the V four V Live concert? Down Under?

Yes and no. So I caught the firt the first one the Bitcoin the one where it was where it was just Ainsley. So yeah, definitely was able to participate in that, funnily enough, right at this moment I had organized to chat with so TJ the raffle Oh, sorry, for this exact time. And then you guys message so I was like, oh, TJ Do you mind putting it a day earlier?

Oh, we bought TJ

Day a day earlier so we were actually recording that as a Italy's second one was going on. So no, I didn't. I didn't

catch the so so sir. TJ the raffle is going to be on the mere mortals podcast. Correct? Yeah. Nice. I love that guy. I don't even know what it looks like. I love that whole family. There's a lot of them.

There's so many like

a million doorbells. That's, there's so I got an email from Tom door from like, who is Tom? Like? I know, like Curtis. I know TJ, then you know, what's the what's the dog? What's the kid? The kids name? J dog J dog J dog? Yeah. Well, Dave

Willis always says, when somebody has a whole ton of kids, like, they must think that they're really like, the world needs a lot of them or something. They must think they're really important. Well, they

did a really good, you know, when you list off, like the alphabet alphabet as fast as you can. ABCDEFG. He did that with all the names of his siblings, and it took like, a minute.

Dave, were you able to catch any of the live shows?

Yes, I did not. So the first the first one was that was the one from the meetup Wednesday night. Yeah. Yeah. So the for the first one, we were at the movies with friends. And I had a fired up podcast guru checked in like about, I don't know, about 10 minutes into the movie and looked at it and made sure that I was getting a video stream set must set to 1000 per minute and just set it. Cool. So just want to stream sets. I'm not gonna be able to watch it. But then I saw some of last

I mean, I was on both of them. There was a back channel telegram group. It was kind of like, like David in the cave with 400 and Algenol. You know, getting ready prepping for the prepping to go to war against King Saul.

lathering up the slings? Yes,

it was. It was an unbelievable show of camaraderie solidarity. Like it took me back to the very first cyber casts I did, which was not even a thing in 1996. And we did the Grammys, and we brought in T one line into the Shrine Auditorium. No one's ever heard of that. Before then, and oh, yeah, T one. Oh, my God, that's fast. That's broadband. One and one megabit,

And I feel left out of Philly and they what

was going on? Yeah, well,

I mean, there was links all over the place. Yeah, well, I felt like a blueberry was on site. And, you know, we finally got a picture of blueberry. He's like, you know, this like teenager and vans. So I was rapping. So Julie Costello, Ainsley, his mom. She now she, of course was all over this thing. And I'll read you what what she wrote, I'll skip over some of the numbers stuff but she said, Okay. Thank you all madly, deeply, sincerely, from the bottom of our Costello

And yes, which I didn't know was a thing until yesterday.

Now I like to answer.io because it does something that we on the RSS side do very poorly which is it shows a running total of what you know there's apps with a message so it just you know so you're watching the video or you'd be listening but watching the video in this case and you see a very much like a GoFundMe you know how GoFundMe if you go there and you see just people with donation amounts and there's no other interactivity other than someone may be

SATs

Okay, is that Buber? Yeah, thoughts on this

76 From NW through fountain saying live love laugh lightning. I need a bell out here. Yeah. Reading this thing is a red flag. Watch yourselves.

Now let me give you the last thing she had several segments. We might we might have an announcement. Yeah, so this was almost that she had one more song. We're gonna do cherry on top and then this happened.

We've had just several I sat here and boosted 50,000 sets for front of house. Thank you. I appreciate you. We had 66 666 from Carolyn saying it's a very exclusive dance party in the kitchen right now. So perfect. Here. There have been so many people who have made this night possible. And again Oh wow. Let me let me count the zeros it goes Oh God. Okay, so 10203040506 zeros six zeros. How big of a boost is that? I think that isn't million

so anonymous came in with a million sat boost at the end there. I mean, it was an and this is actually was this. I think this might have been the Minneapolis night I can't remember. I mean the meet up night regardless this this is kind of what it was. And the second night just loud came on was great to see him. He loved every part every bit of the part I expected total cuz, I mean, it's like James Brown and Lenny Kravitz had a kid you know, they had an orgy and out pop this

Yeah, he would, he would always he would do it for a little while, and then turn it off and say go right and go write your own blog post. Right.

And, and Twitter is kind of the same thing. I mean, I, I've gone I've really made a study of Twitter over the power x over the past few days. And I see people killing each other shooting each other. Playing mean jokes, you know, trolling, yelling, it's, it's shit. It's unchecked. It's just shit. And I don't want I've I'm really stepping back from the comments idea. You know, you have to have moderation. There's all these

Well, I mean, it's already it's already fully operational own no agenda today. I mean, the pieces are there you I mean, you have this experience that the it's it's not like there's a lot ACC, at all

correct. And so right now noster so the thinking is, well, we Nasir can be the social piece to podcasting 2.0 And I'm just going to say no, nothing should be the social piece. Because right now noster is everyone is kind of like minded. Everyone's in the same vibe. But go ahead and go on there and talk about pod ping built on hive and see what happens. You will less fun. No, you won't last five minutes. So as that grows, that too will become toxic unless they keep it

As it was, I think we also need to make a distinction between between things between live things and and podcasts. Yes. And totally, you know, because Because luck live events like this, you will I think a lot of this has been worked out slowly over time. It out in other on other platforms. So, like YouTube, let me like, you know, we can like YouTube or not that it's they've, they've been through a lot of these

chatting, I love chat and no one's implemented it really. Right.

And so then well, that we're, we're gonna do that. And I mean, phase seven is chat is that XMPP

is that because you know, the IRC chat? Yeah, is great and but you know, people need to set up IRC chat for it to work. Yeah, I

mean, I think XMPP is going to be the first class citizen and I agree, like with all this stuff, With all these tags, you know, we try first and foremost to make the tag except future proof. So they accept any protocol. Yeah. The problem with namespaces in the past with with with podcasting is they, they they tied themselves to a specific protocol and a lot of

what I felt about what I felt the chat, because we had an ANZ hash Aynsley live room on the on the IRC server that we that everybody uses. That was very exciting. It was, um, that's a lot of what that Twitch does that that's what your YouTube Live does. And this is this is available. I'm curio caster has it, I believe, as the only one. But I think for live, that is almost a requirement to have that. And I love that

And it could be nostre too, if the nostril people want care to do. Just like the value tag, the value tag, the social interact, tag, the chat tag, all these tags are if somebody cares enough about their pet protocol, to put it in there and make the proof of concept and show that it works.

Dude, I love this. We had nothing to do with it was all other people that was a win, win, win.

And like, like, it's like we it's like we birth a child in the child lot

like that. I grew up and did some stuff and Training we call

in like, we're like, oh, the you know, and we went and watched the graduation ceremony. It was told but at the same time, it was such a weird experience to have such a monumental event where, where it wasn't a bunch of people, depending on me for like, support and doing all this. It

even dream out. We don't want to dictate it at all,

and we can't control it. Yeah, we can't say, you know, this is the protocol you're supposed to use. Because like we can say we can say this is the protocol we use, as far as like me personally my protocol that I that I prefer, but if somebody wants to go off and do something different, I mean, we can't stop them. Open Source.

Here's what it felt like to me. It felt to me like tune sur should have been the video source inside the apps with their with their chat except the chat would it would be a split on the boost button does that make sense?

I think as the I think a falling so if

I hit a boost to Graham so I would be watching this video in an app and then I hit a boost to Graham and the splits fire off and there's an extra split there that hits the tune sur.io system which I don't know if they accept key send or not. So they so because they got nothing to this is the thing. The nos Nasir it's all 100% to the to the artists wallet. Tombstone got nothing out of it, which breaks my heart.

Oh real well, it

was that chat appearing in the video it was

underneath. No underneath right underneath right underneath me. Just I mean, just like a GoFundMe you know, and very similar to fountains. Although fountains switches the screen, this is just video right in the middle. And underneath it, you see the zaps coming in? And like that, that is a good, that's a YouTube like experience. That's an experience and people like that. And I saw people zapping and saying something to another person who just just happen to

experience of what happens on this show is excellent. It just needs to be ported over to think something that's well portable. I mean, like, you know, that's that's that. So I like to finish that thought on YouTube, the YouTube thing evolved into live live videos having a femoral chat, and then non live videos. It's it's comments, right? And we already have comments. But we don't, you don't have to see

then there's the second part. And this is unique to podcasting 2.0. And I was very wrong about this. I really, really, really want to surface my booster grams in the app in every app, I really want to surface them. I see that as a huge benefit. I think it's, I've I've been looking at fountain for a long, long time. And this, there's no toxicity, I don't need to you don't I don't need to be able to comment on it. That's okay, I just want people to see the booster grams that

Well, do you think it's worth distinguishing between the two different ways of using the podcasting apps as well because the when I first came to podcasting 2.0 And I heard about cross cross AP comments. I was jazz because I thought it would replicate an experience kind of like YouTube and their comments, which I think are really cool. But then I was thinking about it. And you know why you go into the YouTube comments? It's probably because you're, you're slightly bored

was interesting was interesting last night, is that people will be sharing screenshots of fountain and fountain had only had a web experience, and it was audio. But people were sharing that screen because it showed you the booster grams coming in, and it showed you the total. You see, there's something there that is different from comments. It's different from chat. It's a third, a third thing, it's something different. And it's unique. It's unique to our apps.

well you know what's interesting with this so I'm I'm part of the reason I livestream best started live streaming video during our show just kind of as a learning experience and also really primarily to help Alex test No no,

I thought it was to pick up chicks not working everybody There's Dave Jones on the live streams look at him ladies. Is he hot? Or what? He's smoking at board room after?

Yeah, and so like to help Alex with test no agenda tube and have that be a sandbox. But then like, as I like doing it I thought sort of started to have like more or less respect for I can we can hear that. And I'm

sorry yeah, I'm sorry. I was killing I was trying to open the the booster grams and curio caster was still running. Sorry.

So like I started with a started to understand sort of the complexities around around all this and have a little bit more respect for how much of a challenge it is, you know, when so and I'm on no agenda tube right now is in their chat room. I have that pulled up in a separate window on the screen. And I'm seeing it is just like IRC. It's the the X there's an XMPP booth spot in the chat room on the agenda tube. Yep. And when somebody booths, it shows up, it's right.

now it's not connected to the IRC or is that also connected to it? Because you connect that with XMPP, can't you?

Yeah, I think so. But that's like, it's it's being fed, these things are being federated into through Britt, you know, they're being bridged, right. So we, you know, the things that we this experience, okay, so, this is something I was thinking about today too. The other the other thing that I took away from from this whole week was if it was the right, let me say it this way, it was the right decision to slow down the namespace. Amen. It really was because we we ran fast for

so it's their current weight weigh in here, Roman.

Yeah. I mean, like, with the social media stuff, I was just gonna say like, I can't add much, because I had none from 2013 to 2019. And then the way I use it is just is just, I use it to, like, advertise post. I'm not I'm not big into to that whole world. But yeah, yeah, I think the live chat and the focusing on that, at least for me, personally as a podcaster

dig in on that, Karen, because you you've done video for a long time. So you've, you've been in this, you've been in the video world how how do you? Like what if you're going to take I think let me ask this questions for figure out how to ask this. Your video what you expect from video is probably like it is with all of us. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's probably in your head, you just see the YouTube experience. Do you if you were to sort of translate that into what you

I think you just have to realize that different things like if you if you want to be a YouTuber, you sure go for it and go ahead. But it's really hard to be a good youtuber and a good podcaster at the same time. I'm not even sure you can is some people can kind of get away with it, kind of the the LEX Friedman's to the Joe Rogan's, but it's you know, that's, that's really, really hard to do. And it's almost I think, for most people, like you have to kind of pick one of

Do. Do I want to hear I do want to hear Tom brought clips of a new media

show. I don't know if you heard it. You know, I was in the car. Driving back. This was this. Can I just let me just wrap this up for one second. I have one more thing to say. Oh, yeah, sure. I have such deep appreciation for Julie Costello. Jim Costello. Of course. Ainsley just loud, his team who I don't know. Thank you. Thank you for trusting us. Thank you for the hours of phone calls with everybody. That's Julie, mainly,

It didn't just work. It was like, crisp, beautiful. Like yes, spotless.

Yes. And the audio Thank you. The audio was killer. You know, just everything was stellar. I can't wait for what everyone's going to do next. And and really the whole, the whole music side of this you guys I love you. I love you so much for for taking this taking this leap of huge faith. And I'm glad that it worked. You know, we all know that. It's Dred Scott, basically, who funded the whole thing. We know how it works. We know you know he was boosting everyone. One

one 100 100k says 1000s 100,000 SATs after another just boom, boom,

boom, boom, boom. And you know, and don't discount those streaming stats. You know, there's more people like Dave Jones sitting in the theater streaming 1000 SATs a minute, you know, this, it's not just about the boost anyway, is

the biggest difference. You think the value for value component is what really differentiates it from a YouTube experience or a twitch experience or hopefully even just a podcasting?

Well, totally because, well, there's it differentiates it from Nasir differentiates from everything. The whole idea that everybody who's participating gets a piece of value sent back directly from the people who are enjoying the content or the value they're receiving. That's it. That's why we're still together

that's why he misses everybody misses not everybody. Many people miss a component of value for value because it's it's it multiple things all at once and ever is a lot of people miss one piece or the other

even Burberry says the lighting designer even got a split.

I see that's the thing is like you that. And that's the part that I won't say the quote noster people because I don't think that's fair. But that's that's on the nostril side of things they haven't they haven't caught the importance of that yet, which is the full stack, everybody gets a cut. Yeah, if you can't do it that way, it doesn't work. It doesn't because people give up. If you can't, the value flow doesn't

get them forgotten.

And they're gonna and then you Yeah, and then you get next cloud or whatever. The but but when you can have the split where everybody can share in the in in the revenue. It changes the game. Now it's no now it's no longer people just doing it simply out of the out of the kindness of their

heart. Oh, and one other thing. I loved how the homegrown hits gals. They come to the live feed during their live show. Oh, that's cool. And yeah, but also the promotion. That and this is this is where a pro like Julie Costello comes in. I heard Bo Cody Christopher with music sidestream podcast. He did a quick interview with Ainsley. There was a shoot of Sam Sethi had Ainsley and just loud on pod news weekly review. I mean, it was it was like a real, that's an industry. Right?

oh, yeah, you gotta pee. Yeah.

And, and I will open up my zap, I think it's zap, well, that changed the name of it, they change it to bit banana, whatever. And I and I use that one because I can bring up the podcast index node. And I will just watch and see one Satoshi at a time streaming in. And it makes me incredibly happy now.

It's like watching a fish. I can just your I can imagine you at three o'clock in the morning, staring a helipad.

It was it was it's like basically helipad. But you know, but I see the whole index. And I don't see, I don't see booster grams or anything. It's just I see the, I just see one set, you know, 20 SATs, because we're just getting a percentage of stuff. And some of its for our for this podcast. So maybe a higher amount. But I and you know, every minute there's 1215 20 Different payments per minute. And I just know that at

didn't give you my slight an early prediction, which was for the pod Newsweekly. And my prediction for 2024 was it's just going to be all about collaboration you because you get so much access to not not need to trust somebody for this payment is gonna go here and then it will get there eventually and and that all that sort of just, I don't know, what was call it wasting of time or just the non

morning, as I woke up at six, and I'm still jacked, and and Tina asked some really good question. She says, So how does it really work? The music business? How does it get played when a song is on the radio? And, you know, just running through all that, and you know, and basically the end of the day, after 48 months, you know, a penny drops into your into your piggy bank there. And that's it. And she has and she's went holy crap. And I wish I'd recorded it because I was really

if shows have over 300 episodes, they could and should expect to see their total weekly downloads at the end of November be greater than a 25% drop below where their weekly numbers were in early September. Here's the thing, and I want people to remember this. Your audience size did not change those numbers. That was extra downloads that were happening to your back catalogue weren't being listened to. It's just right sizing your downloads your monthly and weekly downloads to

so you overcharged me by 25% for the same amount of people. He literally just said

that is called right

sizing. Oh, right sizing. Okay, there you go.

Yeah, it's not you didn't get ripped off. You got you got wrong size. So that you need to right size that

I mean, that's her rific Well, this

is the same thing that causes in this is the joy that I have right now is to share with you that Todd, Todd's F bomb.

That's the second clip. Okay. Okay,

well, well, let's we can we can tease the F bomb because the Kratt the I'm proud to say that in that we I predicted on the last show that we would that we would wear Todd down. And in that it he would he would indeed adopt the Austrian enclosure because we

didn't take more than 20 hours.

When Todd discuss discussing things with Todd is more is more of a negotiation than anything else we eat when he says no, that doesn't really mean no. it mean it means I'm just not ready yet. Like you can use it means you need to change tactics. And he's and I'm happy to report that the cracks are forming.

While there is there is a little bit of initiative over at podcasting. 2.0 No, it's early on what they're gonna do. And so the

large thing is, yeah, it was thought of you.

But what you know the idea that spin surface that seems to be pretty good is Yeah, sure rock, blueberry supports video podcasting, you want one traditionally you can have one. Okay, if you want one. Number two, if you decide to put your video over at wherever it may be Twitch, Twitter, Spotify, wherever now, YouTube, wherever you're going to close, you can put in the list, okay, whatever. So if you want to put your video

Yeah, so welcome to the party. We love Utah. And this we will see you with full video Ultraman enclosure support in the near future. Good.

I was gonna say I love the show so much. I was on my way back from Austin. I get in the car to drive back. I see the notification. It's only two minutes old. I'm like, Oh, this is great. So I pop it on the on the on the car Bluetooth, and I'm driving and I am just booster grabbing like nuts. I'm like, I'm disowning Rob. Like, they're like, Hey, who's gonna do chapters and said it's very easy to do chapters for your show is just chapter one through 10 Rob shields for YouTube. You know,

this was the greatest episode of new media show I've ever heard. It was so funny. Without a doubt. I mean, and so I mean, in that vein, I mean, we please F bomb it.

We need to we need to put some some brakes on why there's less than one half of 1%

We'll talk why. Why do we need to put brakes,

we quit. We need to, we need to quit. We need to quit pumping it up. There's very few people on podcasting site that has actually switched to video. It's not that big a numbers. It's not. It's not that many as compared to audio folks. We don't have to tell him to stop. But we need to quit hyping it as this new fucking frontier and everyone is gotta be on it's not true. I would say less than 5% less than maybe less than 3% of podcasters currently are doing any video.

So this is this is. This was to me the best part is this discussion between and I've tried to make this. I've tried to make this point before it recently is that this whole? Like, it's become obvious to me that this schism between AD AD research and digital advertising research in the podcast industry. And in the hosting company slash infrastructure. Is

I'm saying is what we need to recognize is that this is a unified audience that is I am audio and video had no

doubt that we meet we need to set expectations realistically for the average podcaster on what's going to happen when they go invest and do a whole bunch of work on video. Very

few are pastor pastor figure that out for them so that

we need to okay, if I'm sitting here and saying video, podcasting is the next biggest thing and this is where you need to invest your money. I'm doing a disservice to podcaster I have to send the expectation level of what's going to happen when you do video. If you You're gonna do

have to set a low expectation for what somebody might expect, because

that's what's gonna happen to 99% of people.

I appreciate what Todd is doing here, because this is exactly what happened in 2008. My balls were not as big as his. It was, it was the venture capitalists, we had pod show. And we went so because they were like, look at YouTube, YouTube just launched that's a $2 billion, you know, blah, blah, blah. Look at juice remember juiced? And you know, J O S T?

O, what a terrible name.

Oh, no, you gotta be more like, juiced? Oh, yeah, this was, this was like some video thing. The I mean, I don't think anyone even remembers it. But it was hot for like five days. And we not only went all video, we changed the name to me VO We changed it away from pod from pod show, we did all of that, and failed spectacularly, because it was the wrong thing to do. And if we kept that company going for 10 years, 10

now, the whole time during this discussion, Rob, Rob's whole point was based on on this, this research survey, done by sounds profitable. And he just kept saying the research, the research the research, and like an antenna, the top end clip for Todd tall is he's trying to say look, I don't care what your research says. I know what the reality of this is in the research is wrong. And so he keeps He keeps talking trying to convince him and Rob can't see outside this

I'm saying is that if we keep hyping video. Alright, let's start hyping video every day you have to do video. Then someone about a year from now is gonna say, Todd Rob, why did you tell me to do video? I've had no success on video. But I've had great success with my audio program.

I didn't tell anybody to do video. Well,

it sounds like you are. Well, this

research is showing that for

a segment of very big shows. Okay,

but if you look at these overall numbers that that Tom shape that

listening to very big shows what where is the distribution amongst smaller shows on YouTube? It's not there. Dave

Jones, I love you for so many reasons. I'm going to tell you why I love first of all, I love you to rob. And don't worry, Todd and Rob will have this conversation next week and the week after and the week after and the week after. That will keep on going and it's

this this one catch the reruns.

And just when I think I'm mad, and I can't listen to it anymore, it gets entertaining. I was planning for my Sunday no agenda show to clip for similar reasons. But you're tying it together beautifully here on the media, which now I understand what what you because it's my hatless. You know where I'm going. Oh, of course. I know where you're going. You're going to the research.

Yep, yep. Yep. And the so the on the media which you this is a thing that you created within me. See, yes, the hate listen. No, Karen, you don't have the joy in Australia of listening to on the media.

No, well, I don't personally have to. Do

you have a hate Listen, though? Ah, no.

There's nothing that I particularly do know. There's there's tons of things where I I'll go to it intentionally because I think it's dumb and want to see like if there's a reason missing now. That's

a hatless. I always wish that I could send boosts to these shows.

Oh, I do too. I

would understand that I would be boosted now. I'd be boosting so big to these people. Like this is stupid. Here's 100,000 SATs I wish I could do that. What

my hate listen then would be this scammy list crypto crap that I can find to see if there's anything like any reason I should be focusing on anything really than Bitcoin. That's not

a current if you don't have a hatless and I highly suggest you go and get it's good for you. It's good for fantastic. It's wonderful on the media is now I mean like it hits my my podcast app and it's Immediate right away. Immediate. And so like the the so on the media this week at the beginning of it is like is the all A's just quoting all of these these these, these surveys that our saying that Trump is beating

anything anything Yeah, boy

y'all are blue, whatever. It's just whether cilantro tastes good.

Everything kale is no good. Yeah. So

then so they bring on they're like, Okay, well let's dig into this let's find out about surveys. Let's let's do this research this a little bit. And the Whoa, this they get this lady from I think she's from the New York Times because they did a joint poll with Siena College. And they they started going over how they do these, these surveys. And this, this ties in with what Rob is basing his thing on, which is surveys. And they start off by talking about how the wording in surveys is crucial. So

let's talk about the way a question is framed because it can mean anything, and it can mean everything. We're there debates about the wording of any questions in these particular polls,

in any poll, but in particular, this poll, we wanted to be very careful and conscientious and how we worded the questions because, you know, we know that the conflict between Israel and Gaza right now is very complicated. And even that choice of words I had now is really complicated, right? We had to really think carefully about when we're saying Gaza, when we're saying Palestinians, when we're saying Israel, when we're saying the Israeli government, each of

was literally cooking burgers outside when I was I hate listening to this. I'm like, Oh, this is so good. This is so good.

So what do you think the two main goals are?

Well as chyron go higher, and where did I already heard it? Oh,

you already heard it? What are the two when it comes to wording of survey questions. Karen, what are the two main goals you can think of?

Jays that probably want some sort of participation? Like I imagine if you're listening to a poll and you and then you're ambivalent, then it's then it's not good. They want to definite yes, or a definite no. So participation, and then I mean, like they'd have their own bias, right. So they'll probably be leaning at one way or another. It's very hard to be truly neutral. So yeah, turning it to their what they kind of want to hear. Okay,

all right, let's, let's see what she has to say.

The first is that a question feels fair to anybody who's being asked it. We want to represent every single voter in America, no matter their opinion, no matter where they sit on the political spectrum. And so that means that every voter in America should be able to look at these questions and say, I see myself in those answer choices. There is an

imagine that meeting? Imagine working there and sitting in that meeting? I

love the I love these words. We it's like they like they say, you know, we call that fill in the blank. And it's always something you expect from instructing? Yeah, you're expecting it to be some really fancy term, but it's the what do they call it measurement error? Yeah, it's like, it's this thing we call being wrong wrong. Just wrong, is not a fancy term. It's

me, as an analyst of polls, I wouldn't know how to interpret that data because everybody's bringing their own perspective to it. So instead, we had a forced choice option, either Israel should stop its campaign in order to protect against civilian casualties, even if not all the hostages are released, or Israel should continue its military campaign until all the hostages are released, even if it means civilian casualties in Gaza might continue. Now, a lot of

answered? I love this. It's like, do these guys killed those guys baby worse than those guys kill those guys babies worse? Give me your answer.

Everything that they said before about the carefulness of questions and the wording, the criticality, and the pause and the 15 possible different answers you could do? Forget all that. Forget all that. We're just gonna give them two. We're gonna give you two things to choose from, but which of which nobody probably agreed. And you know, and you know, why? Why did they do that? Click for?

Did you consider having more than two choices? We

did, we debated that pretty heavily. And there were times where we got close to having that as options. In the end, it makes it a lot more difficult to analyze the data, the more options that you provide. Oh,

that's because it's hard. That's why they didn't do it. Because it's hard. And it makes it really difficult. Yeah. So when you when you when you're talking about surveys, in research and research from these from these agencies, you're getting, you're getting nothing from them, you're getting absolutely zero

worse, worse, you're getting what they want the answer to be? Yes. forced

choice. Now we know the term forced choice. We did a forced choice question.

Have you seen that recent meme of a it was a guy wearing like an hour long earphone or air pod or something like that? And he's been trying to some months? I think it's on a college university campus or something like that. And a guy's trying to force him to answer one of the questions and he's just refusing like blatantly to, to answer it. And then it was there was something related to

that was Palestine. It was real. I

think it was. Yeah, yeah. And it's, that's exactly that. No,

I can't answer. I can't speak about Palestine. I can't speak about Hamas. No, I can't talk about that.

Yeah, like that. So your quit your, whenever it comes to research, you're getting the forced choice of, because she said, it's just like bedding, you know, the bed. They always say that the bedding lines are created in order to get even money on both sides of the bed. Yeah. Like, and so it's just it's the same thing with this. She said, she said we did

I can attest to some of the video stuff, which was when the I think like, one of the reasons people are like, what what are the reasons that podcasters are being suggested to go to video? And it's, it's typically because you feel like you're talking into the void, you're not getting any like reaction, you don't you don't know what's happening, you see download numbers, and then they reduced by 25%. And then you realize, oh, wait, people weren't even, like they weren't

That's what was interesting because yeah,

what other things have you learned? Because you have mere mortals Of course. And the value for value is have you done two seasons the value for value podcast?

Three now? It's

fine. So what have you What have you learned? I mean, you you have been in the midst of it you've talked to value for value people non value for value people, you know, you doing views on video? Do you have just pure audio? I mean, tell me what what you really learned when what will you be focusing on for 2024?

It's great. You asked that because the the latest episode was was pretty much just covering all that. And so I can give you the highlights. There's, I still notice that with book reviews, for example, they tend to that there's definitely an audience more on YouTube for that I think then interested then slowly the audio so for that one, I'm kind of optimizing for the video. And going. Still, it's still because I don't like the virality chasing spending all my time on

do you think that books book reviews work better? Or in video? Or specifically YouTube?

I have no idea. Yeah, this is the this is just like the weird things where it's just perhaps because maybe a bit more timeless in terms of being people would would willing to look up like a stoic book written from the early BCS? And maybe it's a bit more. Yeah. Evergreen in that how

are you measuring this? Are you measuring it by views versus views,

but also just like even the booster grabs for example, they don't really come into the the book reviews. And I've kind of talked about that as much as I have on across my other shows. So that's one thing leaning into the audience and

Yeah, that that's the, the video thing. But I think that it took me a little bit to sort of get used to, to

thing. You don't want to show all the spreadsheet in the email. Yeah,

yeah, there's the email, you know, like everybody has a nice to see my email and stuff. So but but like, now with the stream deck, it's even easier because there's a button and my admin screen. So it's like, I don't even really, I don't even think about that the fact that there's video until like an hour and a half into the show. So it's fine but that but that learning, but at the beginning that's just all you're thinking about your split brain.

Yeah, but you're like you're not trying to grow your video are you? Yeah, like yeah, you're not No, no, no, it's you get and

in some weeks I don't even do it. I mean, I'm tired or something. Yeah.

And then also your monetization even though I hate that word is not linked to how many views you get on YouTube whereas then that's what a lot of people are like, Oh, have I got my 4000 hours for the year have I got my 1000 subscribers? Car video, the ad payouts better you know, all that sort of thing.

You're my my brother in law in Italy. My sister has lived there now for 28 years, I think. And he is a quite well known comedian. He's He's my age, like couple years younger and he was very famous for in Italy you work for either check a gory or used to be Berlusconi, of course, it's still the Berlusconi organization even though he's dead in check, a glorious kind of they're both they're both gangsters. You

of death, the most Italian thing ever.

But he's done. You know, he's on many, many small features and things and he hit all of a sudden, he hit really big on YouTube. And he would just do like, like a joke a day or something. And it just and you know, he got the whole, you know, the plaque, the little the YouTube award thing and everything. And, and now, you know, he of course, he got busy. So he had no gigs and he's going to gigs and then his numbers really dropped off really quickly. And Willow, my my

place. Yes. It's a Google SEO juice. This is also gross.

Not as gross as this baby. Come on. Let's talk about it for a moment. You want to see my Pinocchio video? Just tried to wait.

Wait. That's just that's just like so good. We don't we don't want podcasting to be that. No,

of course not. Of course they won't be it won't be.

We're smart.

We're smart. We're intelligence over here. We're intelligent,

man. So I've been I'm going to have to post this code publicly. Because I'm beating my head against the wall. TRY TO GET HTTP soon signatures working in activitypub

is for the edifying of the index? Yes,

I admit it, I am, I am almost close to defeat on this. I cannot figure it out. I'm at the point where I've been looking at it for too long. And I can't see my own mistakes at this point of that I've got I'm comparing. I'm comparing my rust code to John Spurlock's mini pub code. And I cannot see what I'm doing different. And like his his in JavaScript mods and Russ, I'm having to do some translation there. But it's a, it's a fairly straightforward thing. You hash the body of the

can't Oh, I know, I know what you're doing wrong. All of it, what all of it. Okay, you should make love to your wife do something else.

Stop this is Christmas.

What am I doing? I've got I'm just gonna have to post publicly and have somebody look and say, Hey, idiot, you're, you're missing a newline character here or something like that. Like, I think bracket,

bracket, there's got to be a bracket. It's something

like it's something simple because like, it's just not, I can't figure it out. So I'm going to do that. This weekend, I'm going to post it. And then I'm appealing for help. Because if I can get this, this has been owning me for a week now to every bit every bit of every bit of coding time that I get. I'm going back to this. So I built a whole a built a new

result. Have you tried Chad GPT

have not tried yet to be chatty. Why not kick on

the free chat. Okay,

I'm not giving them a phone number. I need a local LLM Well,

I got one I got an LLM. Can you ask that question for me? If you if you send me the question, I can sure

just take the transcript of this show.

Okay, somebody says all right, minds rather slow but yes, I will.

So that if I can get past this then like, then everything will fall into place because the the activity pub bridge is going to is is going to be important. I had a long conversation with my buddy Tim the other day about about this a bit. We're talking about nostre and activity pub and all kinds of things. And I just think that activity Pub is WordPress is is got the new activity pub plugin. I feel like activity Pub is I'm about to blow up. As far as adoption goes, it

sure seems that way.

It's coiling is about to coil load. Yeah. Yeah. So I really think this is important for people to be able to natively interact with podcasts, you know, stuff over activity pub, so I'll post it, and then everybody can tell me where I'm doing it.

Shall we thank a few people. Oh, yeah, sure.

Let's thanks for people.

And we've got we've been getting some live booths during this boardroom after dark. Now can code has showed up and I you know, I have my helipad open all day long. And he's a hayver. So he's got a lot of a lot of boosts and I'm not quite sure exactly. Hive tube. What exactly is hive tube?

Yeah, that's hive tube is the fork of a peer to two with with all of Alex's stuff in it.

And does it do is it does it work on hive, or does it work on? Enlightened not?

I don't think it's high specific. I

think it's just called hive tube.

thinks of it. Well, okay, I may be wrong. Well, he

has a lot to say. 1000 SATs from ENCODE cast dot garden. A podcast host powered by hype tube pushes the p2p live streaming cross app comments and syndication hardcore. Now the 1000s that to look forward to way less ads or more boosts and hive rewards. Okay, so that's definitely hot. There's definitely likes and tips. Oh, that's how I get to and podcasters then we have three five to one from Renee caneta.

Get a hate Listen, it's easier.

It's better. It's better than that. 12345 from hard hat Merry Christmas. Thank you hard fat. Sup Yo sup? Short Row ducks. He gave to karma pluses to blueberry with 2222 Salty Crayon 1976. Love the hotspot. Love the hot namespace talk in these hours get offended. I'm saying Merry

Is that did Alex say that I

guess? More like I have to do it. Eric peepee 33,333 No, nope. Thank you. We have Chad F with 1000 SATs pod verse has IRC chat. But on mobile if you switch apps for too long you get kicked out of the chat room ah yes this is another thing that we've seen the iOS seems to be really crappy with stuff going in the background that's for sure.

really crappy dot dot dot now.

Let's see herbivore band. 300 SATs Thank you anonymous podcast guru user 2222 says go chyron as 6000 SATs when kind of courses in our our value block today. 6000 SATs from Dred Scott cleaning Why Boost cannons after the last two days of V For me music boosting Oh, he just cleans his cannon and it's 6000 SATs that's how it goes. Sometimes it just squirts out. Tone record 5150 scraping together some support SATs after last night's Minneapolis music streams was a great night props

I loaded I loaded it up with about 50 bucks on

Yeah, it was fun to load load load. Let's see Dobby lost 20,000 SATs. I won't be able to listen live will be busy sleeping I bet. But Merry Christmas Adam Dave and Karen Thank you brother for your Christmas. And I think yeah, that's that's where we are with the live boosts.

Okay, well, Marco Arma gave us $500 through PayPal 20 is Blaze on him. Paula,

thank you Marco. We so appreciate that you support us brother.

Thank you, Monica. That's appreciate that and Merry Christmas to you and yours. Thank you for all support every month forever. Appreciate that. We've got Some boosts we've got. Oh, Chris from Jupiter broadcasting Chris last. Do fountain 68,848 booths nice

thank you.

He says Dave checkout bit focus, bit focus to go with that stream deck on Linux. We use it to control OBS soundboard, our da W and run scripts via SSH connections. That focus is worth the 15 minutes to try with the stream deck on Linux. Happy Holidays, guys. You sent me a screenshot of this. Yes,

if right after some helipad? Yeah, exactly. Because I'm like, Oh, this is what instead of Dave going off to build a Windows box and like this one nightstand,

which I did build a Windows box. And then I and then you sent me a screenshot of this that night after I had already built it. So I said, Oh, screw it. I'll try this. As what I'm using right now. I'm using bit focus on you. Right, it's awesome. Cool. Cool. What? Do what,

what booths number was that? 6868 848 848 Because they do um, zip code boosts over

there. They do cool stuff like that. I like the zip code boost. That is cool.

See what zip code 68/8 Lincoln,

Nebraska. Nebraska.

He's in Washington. Maybe coincidence?

The stream deck should I get one just to have it in my house? I mean, is the dog is a cool? Is it something I just need in my life? The stream deck? Yeah. From not streaming.

What I mean? It's it does so much like it's killer because it doesn't just do it's basically an outboard macro. Macro runner. Yeah. So you can you can make it do it. You can make it do automation stuff. So you can have it turn on wall outlets. You can have it send SSH commands to servers. Oh, nice. Oh, it dude, it's badass. It is so cool. It's fairly yeah,

well, there's that there's no ads in newsagent. But yeah, there's rockets you know, it's mine. Yeah, that's

a trade off

I love how there's no reporting on the rockets because the rockets just keep coming. I

mean, like every few hours Yeah, I think I hear where they're supposed to run but straight back to the show. VPN to Israel for that ad free experience. Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah was over now.

Or as we say in the south Chaka Chaka y'all. Up in 1984 4000. SAS through family says I apologize for apologizing. lol Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas. It's okay. Apology accepted. Yes. Both of

them. Mark Lundgren, essentially Richard 1111 through 1000. He says boot. Didn't have a boot. Oh, I did have a boot last week.

I went silent. Where's my booze? Is it? Oh, somewhere.

There's I got a slew of ISOs. I

know I already have. I want to know. Thank you. I have one queued up. I haven't even heard it, but I think it's good.

Okay, Mary Oscar, also known as Oscar marrieds. 10,000 SATs do fountain Thank you, Mary Oscar. He says resolving the case. And address is really not that big of a lift. In my opinion. Apps can cache the results just like they already cache lots of other information about the podcast episode feed. But another note fountain point 1.0 live next week. Yeah, it's

killer. All the new versions of the apps are killer. They're just all great. Like you said earlier like we've we've grown up our children have grown up. Oh, yes, yes. Blonde

Jr. They they've all crossed the threshold. into being very stable, reliable, fast apps fast.

Yeah, fast and just easy to navigate. Things are working. It's beautiful. It's beautiful.

I wish I'd taken more screenshots of the of the apps just to be able to look back and you know, two years ago what it looked like, just like when sometimes on Macedon, I'll go back and see, you know, Adam, you talked about having 58,000 SATs throwing flowing through the podcast index per day.

Oh, that's great. Yeah. 50,000 a day ladies and gentlemen, can you believe how long ago was that three years ago? to

two years?

That's fantastic.

Let's see we've got over the last seven days I'm looking at my dentist

sent me before and after my teeth that was scary. Hey, oh yeah,

you probably want to just burn now. I

totally I'm not posting it over

the last seven days 18,004,632 says

Wow, wow. Wow. So

it's about it's a little it's it's a little over $1,000 A day going through? Gene been 1337 through cast Matic he says Adam for what it's worth Chris Fisher at Jupiter broadcasting has been talking about the podcast winter for quite a long time now. I mentioned this simply to say it's not just you that sees it. Did it

does he call it the podcast winter though the actual podcast winter that's interesting. No,

ad apocalypse or something like that. Okay, well,

same. But podcast Winters is a is a bigger flows from the ad pocalypse and from Spotify is failure and be just bad news all around. No bad news. Meanwhile, it's not bad news. The bad this is a great time to be a podcast and especially to be have music in your podcast. Oh, what an exciting time.

I'm gonna pull my shows. That was baffling value for value music because like the intros and pre live stream echoes livestream.

Excellent.

It's a podcast winner but it's a music summer. Ellen see Paul 2000 sets the fountain he says spot on the music analogy is very appropriate. And it's the same thing that happened in the music industry. Individuality was squashed in an effort to make masses follow along.

I think Alan C. Paul, I think I've met him at the SPARC media conference.

Oh, interesting. Yeah, I was I don't recognize that name. He's a new booster. Yes.

He sent us a he sent Tina and I send us a a 21 day devotional for creatives, which is pretty interesting. Just been following. Yeah. I think that's I think that's alizee Paul. Yeah. Oh, man.

Cole McCormick 7777. Through fountain striper boost. He says if you want to continue the discussion of the alternate enclosure and what hosting companies can do better at check out episode 101 of America plus the creator of pot home Barry spoke with me about his vision and plan for the company. He's legit go podcasting. I

heard that interview. I listened to that interview. It was great. It was it was also deep about about Barry himself and his background and, you know, mushrooms and Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was an interesting conversation. That's a pretty fun podcast. Listen to Oh, okay,

podcast, hosting and shrooms. Alright? We need to get baryons here.

We do. Yeah. Yeah.

Gene Everett 3333 through fat and he says boost the dude. Okay. whooshed Kevin Bay. Oh, baller bass 122523 through pod verse.

Whoa. Whoa, nice. Thank you.

Thank you, Kevin. He says Christmas boost. Merry Christmas, gentlemen.

Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas.

Yeah. Thanks, Kevin. Appreciate that. Kevin has been around forever. He's a longtime John. See if we got some from John as JC 2233 through pod verse says Merry Christmas guys. By the way, Adam, how is Texas slim doing is he's still around.

Oh, good question. Texas. Slim was in Thailand for several months. And, you know, he had intended to retire there before he got dragged into into saving American children by getting to eat American beef, grass fed grain finished beef. And he was basically doing a tour through northern Thailand on motorcycle. If he's badass. Okay, yeah, yes. But I think he's he may maybe he might have come back today or two days ago. So I think you'll see Texas limb start to crank up some stuff again.

I rode a motorcycle for many years. And I like as like every day to work and back. And I wrote a Add a BMW 650

GS. Oh, was this with a cylinder sticking out on the side? No, that's

the 1200 job I loved I had 650 this thing got set up over 70 miles to the gallon. That's why That's why I wrote it. But it was it was a cross country just like the 1200 gs like it could go anywhere. Yeah, but but the guy that bought it from me. And when I finally sold it at the guy that bought it from me he was he worse up in the defense in the defense area up in north Alabama. So he would work for I don't know what I think he's the Texas them stuff reminded me this he would work

was so like Texas slim. No wife. No kids. Pretty much. Uh huh. There's a correlation there for something. Yes, there is.

J Moon 5033 says the podcast index he says Merry Christmas, gentlemen, to you and your families. Thank you. Thank you, Jay moon. Dobby does do 20,000 SATs through fountain he says it won't be able to listen to live. We'll be busy. So you already got that stream?

Not that one.

Did you get homewrecker?

I think I got tone wrecker. What a tone records

scraping together some support sas after last night's Minneapolis music stream. Yes.

Yeah, we got that one. Okay. All right. To a couple new ones that came in Cook 2112 Hey 21 told that's a rush, rush boost. But this is from Getty is God.

Oh, I don't know if he's God. But he's, he's really good at the base.

And it's from the from the podcasts index. The no Eddie node pub key and custom data in the RSS feed value split is the cache. If it sucks, if it succeeds, that's what they call a cache hit and everything is golden. If it fails, then you fetch from the key send value. Does that make any sense to you, Dave?

It does. Yeah, yeah, he's saying try a saint. Try that first, then fall back to resolving the address if it doesn't work. Got it. It makes sense. And

Jeff, Jeff, Ron, see 777 Merry Christmas. Thank you. And Jeanne Everett, boost boost boost my first time catching it live. And there you go. Those are those alive boosts. Thank you very much, Angie. Thank you.

And we got some monthlies. We get zener Trevor Zeno are $5 He's from Down Under Thank you, Trevor. Charles current $5 Michael Gagan $5 Christopher Raymer $10 Shawn McCune $20 Thank you. Shawn Cohen glotzbach $5 James Sullivan $10. And we got a new monthly subscriber Michael Hall. $5.50 Thank you, Michael. Thank you Michael. And we got an in Kevin Bay also sent us $3.54 From the Parkinson's endowment fund. Thank you, Kevin.

Thank you. That's truly isn't Donald let me check the tally coin real quick. You know, we just do it because this is where I say that you can support us value for value

we have we got a we got to talk next week. Next next week. We got to get into more of a get started talking about 2024 And what we're going to focus on.

Yes, well, you're going to tell us you're the pod sage. You're going to tell us what we're going to focus on which you will We'll probably be this serializing, your HTTP s signature for the fediverse whatever that whatever the thing is that you need done, that'll be that that'll be the first thing that needs to be done.

Yes,

we've got to fix that. chyron Any closing words, my friend?

Oh, I just wanted to thank you guys so much for everything that you do like it, it needs no repeating. But it's, you've completely changed my life in terms of like the podcasting and the direction I wanted to focus on and go down. So yeah, just coming across. What both of you have done is just was spearheaded along with everyone else, of course, as has been truly, truly amazing. So an early Christmas for me, definitely appearing on the show as well. I have one question I

Well, they reached out to me, and it was a very weird conversation. They said, you know, we'd love to have you on stage. Okay, here's the idea. I'm happy to do like a, you know, a speech, a keynote, you know, whatever. And then I'd like to do is, we'd like you to do panels at Great. I'll do a panel. And I'd like to have a musician or podcasts or app developer, and they said, great, and we want to have a politician and a nasty guy. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, I says

No, I don't have tickets. Because I've been trying to. I've been waiting to see if we even needed them. Because I just don't know what, I don't know what's happening. Man, I plan on going because it's so close to my house. I mean, it's only two hours away, right? It's in Nashville, and I'm in Birmingham. And so I plan on going but I'm like, Well, I don't know if any tickets because I don't know if we're actually going to do a presentation or anything.

I'll reach out to I mean, I think there's enough people are going to be going chyron that it's it's always fun to meet up with people.

That was my plan, no matter what. Yeah. And the

fact that if you're coming, and I'm sure Oscar is going to be there. Dave if you're there, I mean, you know, I'm not quite sure what days it is. Because, you know, like producing stuff on the road. Because I have to keep kind of my day job going. But you

know, I'd stay through Saturday is of course, the horse

couldn't be any worse. Yeah. So um, I'm not sure but I will get an answer from those guys. Because I think it'd be fun to do that. I think we could, you know, with we could we could we could do the V for V LIVE I'd like and I was telling was like, we have all this cool stuff. And we can have booster grams that show up on the screens. We can have QR codes for people to participate in the audience. It was like yeah, and Tucker Carlson. Ah

this is such a weird thing. Very weird.

Well, you know, because we need it. We need a big names. Like, what do you want? You want to have a conference that is, informs people and show something that's some stuff good stuff that's going on? Or

did you tell them currents coming?

There you? And I just said Hey, baby, we're gonna have a nice little sesh on stage. Parents come in. That's right. We got the pod sage on the stage. Yeah, baby.

Please don't ever say sesh against like, says no. This role.

Thank you very much. boardroom. Thank you, everybody who showed up at this late hour. Thank you. For those who are tuning in late from overseas, baby. Yeah, you made it so extra special tonight. Kyron Are you will? It's lunchtime for you.

It's just past it. But yeah, yeah. Okay.

Well enjoy your enjoy your lunch day. My brother. Do you have yourself a great weekend?

You too, man. And Christmas. Yeah. Oh, that's

right. Merry Christmas, everybody.

Merry Christmas. Right. We

said Merry Christmas. And that'll do it for podcasting. 2.0 for our pre Christmas Show.

You guys are cool. You hope You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org for more information. Don't forget the beer podcast.