Episode 159: Proto Person

Casting 2.0 for December 15 2023, episode 159 Well, hohoho Hello, everybody. Welcome to podcasting. 2.0 We are the only boardroom in the business that has a naughty and nice list. That's right. Here's what we discussed the actual future of podcasting did now what's happening here, we're all about it. Podcasting 2.0 podcast index.org And of course, everything we discussed in the open on podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill

Okay, right off the bat. I have have a have a bone to pick with you wants,

what do I do? What do I want?

What do I do now to streaming video? Yes. You hit me with a disproportionate use of gifts.

Because I was hoping it would arrive before the boardroom.

I gave you some DVD. Well, no, no,

hold on a second. I had forgotten that we that you'd like the only guy in my life that I exchanged gifts with then. And I think what I gave you last year last year, I gave you a Oculus card? Yeah, the cold cart. Yeah, the cold cart. And and so Dave's like oh yeah, I sent you a Christmas present. And it's like first of December. I'm like, What I haven't even gotten to my list or anything yet. And I don't have all the gifts my wife I'm like this. I'm on it your way your way on it.

You blue. This is disproportionate completely disproportionate? It's

not it's not because I want I want to give you something that you absolutely did not need. But yet, if you need it.

You get you got me the Elgato stream deck.

Mark Two I hope I hope it's the I

don't know I don't see a mark on it. But I'm looking I'm gonna say as Mark to I don't even know what to do with it. But even all the cool note was like this is what all the cool kids use.

All the cool kids I know use those legato stream tech for the streaming because you can use start your stream it can rearrange your cameras, you know, you can flip your camera on and all that stuff.

Yeah, like it's good. Thank you, brother. Oh,

of course of Thank you. Merry Christmas gift. Merry Christmas. And I expect you to set it up,

though. I will I will. I've will absolutely do that it get a I got it last night. So here's what happened. I got it. I went out on the front porch. And it was like a box. I started opening it up and I'm like, wait a second. If this is something that my wife got, for me, I can't do this. And so I like you know, I'm like put it down. Cut the cut the lid. And then I'm like peeking in there to see what color the box isn't trying to be like. And I'm like, Wait, this is a weird bottle.

Know you're more than welcome. And I'm curious. I think it should work with all kinds of different OSs but I'm sure Windows is whatever you're running your your OBS on Linux baby Ubuntu though really? I don't know if if it has a boon to stuff I don't know. Well, this

legitimately we were talking about this before the show I've got building Windows box. Yeah.

Now just for the stream deck.

And for and for the road because you know, it's crappy with Ubuntu. So yeah, this time next week, I will have our have a fat rig. Fat

rig. It's Yes. Supposedly, you can use it's like, you can use it for all kinds of stuff from macro. We build macros. It has like a whole app store.

feature and it's got so many days got a lot of buttons. Lots of buzzer grim button on there. I don't know what you would do.

I think you can change those buttons. That's the whole point is you can go to the the stream deck App Store. That fat rig Yeah, exactly what Oh,

they got an app. So they

have an app store. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I

should put a podcast index app on the stream deck App Store. Yeah.

Why not? Might as well as you can. I don't know what it would do. But it would look cool. It's good to be in an app store. The only App Store will be in

I know what it would do it would it would overlay to hell a pad various brands on the screen.

Yeah, there you go. Now you're talking. See this is a business expense now. No, no, that's not a business expense that talked about it. That is a Yeah, okay. No, I think we already just established it was a Christmas gift.

Thank you brother.

Yeah, no of course man. Thank you. I love my DVDs. i i And thank you for the for pre ripping the MP force to me I on my I set up on my What is it called? On my start nine. They have like an open source. Video management it's like Plex only it's open source. I think it's called jiggy with it or something jellyfish. Jellyfish. So I've jellyfish. Yeah, so I put I put it on there and and started streaming it I the way the start the start nine still doesn't have what they call

I'm gonna say no. Okay, so

it's like a desktop cube. And, and supposedly it says 10 Tera. Hash. To silent. This is the big thing silent, full Bitcoin node and miner made in the USA. So

let me start with what? I'm not familiar with current, like hash rates and that kind of thing. What where does that rank? And how big is that?

To give me an idea I have. I have two s nines that have been running for a year now in the house. And I think together they do about 17 Tera hash. But that's that. And so that's 600 watts. And this thing is supposed to do 10 At 300 watts. And so now you're literally into the calculation of money. So these, so these two miners, with today's prices, they're doing anywhere between three and $5 a day for me. And

does it connect to ocean?

I know I really don't know. But here's what happens. So I just liked that. It's like the Apollo two. It's their new rig. So I just hit the like button. I get a DM Hi, I'm the CEO. I want to send you one. I'm like sweet

Yeah. The answer is yes. Yes.

I will review it for you. Don't worry. I haven't. It hasn't hasn't showed up yet. But so yeah, I was feeling pretty good about that.

10 Tera hash at 300 watts. I mean, you're talking about half the power with you know, with 75% of the ASHRAE that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah.

That's made in America. They have their own ASIC. I don't know just the whole like the whole idea. Is like a

Is it like a thing that has like a management interface where you can like just plug it in and then get into

you can have that I lose you there. Boy, you went? You went Zippy zappy Hello. Hello, Dave. J is not here Do you guys still hear me right? Still on the stream Okay, so it must have been Dave let me disconnect. See if you reconnect I can reconnect him restore There you go. You there Oh, yeah, I'm here wow, you were gone. You all you want Merton

Oh yeah, those things are loud.

So empty Yeah, just so it does have a managed but you can it's plug and play you plug it in turn on it'll start mining but there's an interface you can you can connect to so it does have a I guess has a web server in there. But it's it's a full on desktop machine.

The last the last miners I had were had to think they may have been like s sevens or something. That was right. I don't even know if that's right. Because it was, it was shortly maybe a year or two after the transition really happened. GPUs to ASICs. Right. So I use the funds that are mined from, from GPUs to buy. Yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty profitable at first and then and then it just went down. You know, like

I mean, the S nines are out of date, too. I mean, what is it s 19 is what people are using these were given to me as well. Now they're refurbished, and I just put them in the in the garage, keeps the garage nice and nice and toasty during the winter. I

had heard the day that AntMiner was like, going

out of business. And yeah, I don't know. Is that still the case? I have no idea. I mean,

we're like the only game in town for a while it's up and down.

You know, it'd be you know, it all depends on the price and the hat and the difficulty and then they overestimate or under estimate. I don't know. I really don't know. Yeah, I really don't understand it. But I just think it's cool that every day I'm like, oh, there's there's $3 Oh, that's cool. I just I printed money in my garage. And Texas prices. It's profitable. by little by little bit.

Yeah, because y'all got y'all have y'all have we got a late Yeah, decent power when it's not an ice storm.

That has nothing to do with our grid. That's Austin.

Prices, decent prices. Nice storm you're gonna pay $20,000

for a minute. For your minor. For minor. Yes. Well, speaking of such I'm going to declare it right now while you're ready, is I'm going to say and I have some standing in the podcast area. I am officially declaring this podcast winter.

Oh, sweet, okay. It's an efficiently

podcast winter. I've been through one of these before. The podcast windows a very bad podcast winter of 2008. When we were riding high, everyone was loving it. VC money was flowing. Everybody was happy and jacked. We had advertisers it was woohoo. So great. And then oh, no, we got Twitter, Facebook, YouTube. Hello, everybody better do video. If you're not doing video, you're gonna suck. You're going to be left behind. That was the first podcast winter. Does

this. Is this similar to a dark winter?

No, because that's where everybody dies. Their head hurts. It is similar to an AI winter which I'm predicting for next year. But this is the podcast winter we are right in the middle of it. I've been listening to so much obfuscated lies before futzing around with language about what's really going on. I didn't clip anything. But I mean, I was surprised I was really surprised to hear on a show prep podcast

said that Steve Gibson, then the example he used. That's the one

I'm most comfortable shows. Exactly. Exactly. Now, it's not because they didn't innovate. It's not because Leo doesn't understand the podcast business. Well, yeah, that is so because I don't think he's had anything to do with the business side. I'm sure his his wife has been doing that. But he's been doing video from day one. It's not about that people want video he did all their stuff is shared on YouTube. So it's not that No, I listened to the media roundtable. And it was pretty

I did not listen to the most recent media roundtable. I haven't heard of yet. But so I didn't hear the thing you're talking about. But I but I did. I had this interesting experience. So I'm now I'm now this guy. Like,

you've been this guy for a long time. Okay.

So here's the math. My daughter, My daughter, she's my youngest daughter. She's 13. And so, me and her and my wife have gotten into this pattern each night we we have dinner and we sit down we watch Gilmore Girls. Oh, beautiful. Yeah, I've never seen the whole thing. I've only seen pieces. Yeah, so we've become you know, get more girls are

hollow baby. Yeah, stars. Hello. Yeah.

It's um, you know, I look around and you know, the guy that plays Luke. Scott Patterson's the actor's name. So I'm like, Well, wonder what else he's he's been in, you know, I'm interested in looking around because I really haven't seen many of these people on other shows. So I'm like, well, where's he been on IMDb and this guy. And it's through searching essay. I found on Google said, he's got a podcast about Gilmore Girls where he is watching through the show himself

been there. I guess they're inserted at inappropriate times.

Yes, of course. Of course. It is brutal in it. So this is the first you know, I'm, I'm used to it. We were we're podcast nerds. So we're used to listening to podcasts, mostly by people that are really good at producing podcasts they take when I when I say good at it. I mean, like they take a lot of care in how the product is, is Bill. Sure. This is really honestly my first experience with a podcast that somebody just a Rando would listen to, like, Oh, I like Gilmore Girls

Yeah, there was a lot of that. I mean, the the podcast industrial complex grew up around the success of cereal and the investment from Spotify. And that's the story. Everyone knows that. And what we've been talking about for over a year, maybe a year and a half is now kind of regular parlance except they say Well, that was dumb money. Okay, say whatever you want. There was there's been dumb money there was dumb money for a decade. That's most technology companies are built

cheap money.

And that's the I'm sorry, go ahead. No, no good. Well, the podcast industrial complex came in treated like radio a weird hybrid actually of radio and other internet based advertising. I think the as Dr. As we call them the biz direct response. I think that's still extremely appropriate. You're not going to get your BMW for direct response. Go buy a BMW

look at our look at our numbers we went from we went down, right? We went Oh, yeah, I mean, a lot. A lot. I mean, we went down from 13,000. Yeah, just like, say like, 5000s. Yeah. A little under a little under six. If you're so that, those exact numbers on a note. It's always been you the numbers you've always heard were, once you get 10,000. Listeners, then

it's also a who want I just don't want it. It's that's not what's so beautiful about podcasting. And, you know, the, the value for value concepts where people support you, and it works. It's been working. Been working for me. I'm hearing more and more of it. It's starting to Oh, my God, the beautiful interview with Ainsley Costello and just loud who are doing the big. The big concert concerts, I should say, December 28, December 21. Two coming to a 2.0 app near you. This guy, just

They do. Okay, so last week, we had this the Spotify take apart. Yeah. And I had mentioned that something that I was thinking about where we'll maybe the pod maybe the Spotify Exclusive. And that podcasting in general, within Spotify was just a way to get their ma us up into the range that would meet the numbers required for them to get the get the lowest rates on music royalty. That's

definitely part of it. It's a very good, that was a good deconstruction you had there. So

I think we have confirmation of that, by accident, in a clip from Franco asked me to send him this clip. And I was like, Well, I don't have I didn't at the time have the clip down version of it handy. I'm like, but I do have the whole interview or not interview but the whole presentation that the lady from Spotify gave the investor day. Yeah, yeah. And so I was like, here, I'll just I'll just send you this. And I'll let me let me find the place to start. It's

on the same platform. Now, think about how far we've come. In just under four years, we've gone from having virtually no podcast on platform to being a global leader in the market. So put this in perspective. When Ankur joined Spotify in 2019, there were fewer than 500,000 podcasts on the platform. Today, there are over 4 million and anchor powers more than 75% of them. And those millions of shows being published to Spotify from anchor are often being made by first time creators. As those

platform.

Yeah, it's the anchor now we know what anchor always existed and still exists and Spotify for podcast still exists. It's an MA usually about and they don't give a crap about those shows. No, it was never about podcasting is about mA use.

But they never really got their advertising game right. As far as I can tell. Now

it will they tried to but it was too late. They tried to with megaphone by going by going into RSS heavy, but it was them it's too late. And they they they timed it exactly at the beginning of parcast. Winter, which is where you don't

want to be I'll explain meu people don't monthly

monthly active users. Yeah. So that's that's the monthly active users is, you know, that is like the premier number that gets report reported for tech companies for tech companies. Yeah, it's just it's a great it's their primary growth metric. Yeah. And then and but specifically for Spotify. We, the research that we talked about last week was that they when they in 2018, when they really renegotiated their contract their royalty contracts with the music labels.

Oh, man that makes Yeah, if

they didn't hit the M au number growth numbers. They had their royalty rate went back up to the previous to what it was previously. Yeah, it's so I mean, anchor if every anchor show brings in an extra two and a half ma you

Yeah, which is which is yourself and your buddy and your mom and your mom. Yeah,

yeah, half of your mom. Yeah. Yeah, so that mean it was it's always it's just it's just a NEMA you play it was always bogus and that's why you have you know, people that have a supposedly anchor podcast in there clearly. It sounds farmy Do you know what I mean? Like there'd be like 1000 shows new shows a day or more and half of them are like it in 10 seconds of somebody you know doing a fart noise

you would know you you went through most of those swear to

God I mean like it's horrible. But then it but then a lot of them is just like people that are clearly from like it's like it's kind of like click farms you know there that are in the right deterring country like the Philippines and Indonesia and these places where they run these these sweatshop click farms. A lot of the a lot of the anchor stuff sounded farmy to me. I'm not saying that they did it, but it's like it just had that weird vibe to it where you're like, This doesn't even

if there's any if the way they the way Spotify works with with music with purchasing fake streams getting on a certain playlist paying for that, if that's any indication, I'm sure that all of the all of the above is true. Yeah, yeah, the whole thing. The whole thing is just, it's, it's a crap show. It really is. And I, you know, whatever motivated us, whatever I mean, we know what the surface reasons were, but we're on a mission from God, Dave, bring out the book. This is the good

I have a breakdown and you wonder yes please

please because I and I, and I love watching how everyone came together that Adobe das at RSS blue.com You know he's doing the RSS feed and you know everyone's been testing it's like my heart is full and warm from just watching all this little sticky but it's

that's the eggnog so I did I would I tuned in to the one o'clock pm central time Test

Now was this blueberry on site as well as he was he a part of this because he's teased in this too? I mean, there's all kinds of people I miss

I don't know if he was on site or not but very were you on site let us know Yeah. So we did the angular Costello live test yesterday or not say we did I was not part of it but I was testing it. And pod verse five by five worth work like

a champ. Yeah. And that's on the web or the app the web I guess, the the web I

did not test on device for pod verse. Curio caster. Also five by five podcast guru, beautiful, perfect. Pod fans could not. And I think Sam said this, he said he had worked to do some it's like it wanted to play and it kept trying to go but some it just wasn't working.

Sounds like a corps or DNS issue. It's always what it is. So

out of the four video apps that we add the 14.0 apps that we know support video, the three the four, beautiful ready to go in and I'm in I'm sure that Sam will get fans up and running. But I mean, like we're, it was a fun experience. Um, is it was really cool to see that

were you able to boost as well? What did that have that up? Did you check all that stuff or just just the video?

I didn't try to boost at the time because I know PUD and I was curious. Okay, Securio caster was streaming auto it was streaming per minute. But I, I did not try to boost through any of the Alby back stuff because I think, I guess we have to talk about the LP pocalypse.

Yeah, so of course, of course we have.

That was taught so that was happening at that time. And I was like, okay, um, I just want to see the video work. So I was that's all I was really focusing on at the moment. But I mean, like, it was a great experience to to be able to, like, pop up and pour gas guru on my phone. Or the other apps on the web. And I'm just watching them have a live jam session. It was so cool. Wow.

Yeah, it's rad. So just looking at some of the going to another thing here. So I was messing around with with podcast guru. And I come across a feed and yeah, this vigilante TV that kind of we I think we talked about that the other day, like these guys are doing all kinds of foreign feeds with everything in there. They've got They've got value blokes, they've got everything. And I find David Icke. Now, of course, everyone can roll your eyes about David Icke, lizard, Lizard

I think the vigilante.tv thing?

Well, in the podcast index is just David Icke, because there seems to be three duplicate feeds of the same thing, which, okay.

But here I say, Yeah, but

there's, but I'm up because it would start off with the same video. I'm like, What is this and the progress bar wasn't moving properly. And then I started looking into the other streaming.

And they got Potter, they get a get pod roll in here. Yeah,

everything's in there. And you know, for a gay gay a guy like David Icke who, you know, inherently is not an advertising friendly guy. Value provide value for value is perfect. Perfect.

I think out that talked to Alex and he said that the guys run into what's at hive tube, which is what vigilantes okay, they took his like, login basically plugin work yeah. For to the off and started doing their own things. I mean, they, they pretty much forked off of peer tube. They've got all you know, they're clearly running his code because it's got to 2.0 feeds and all

right. Dobby das says boosting live worked on all apps Dave mentioned and pod verse video live stream worked on mobile to price. I mean, I'm, I am going to, I'm getting a couple 100 bucks in my wallets. And I'm going to run all five of them at the same time. And boost everybody the same. So Merry Christmas, everybody.

You bet the SAT canon.

Pew, pew, pew, pew.

That's a good idea. Yeah. And they load up, load up a fat wallet and do it to that. I'm looking forward to it. So it's the 20/20.

I think 20. There's two shows the 20th and the 21st. I think Ainslie costello.com. Our just loud world.com has all the info. Just one other thing I wanted to mention about because I was listening to the new media show. And I was here's the funny thing was about advertising and about stats and numbers. And you

challenges. Yeah. And

I was hurting for Todd. Right. Wow, man, that's really harsh. I know. Todd doesn't have to show his number. No one has to do anything. But. But also it's like, Come on, let's like, you know, let's just calm down a second, that I've never even lashed out at Big Cridland that hard. But I don't think he realizes that it's an America that's culturally. You know how the C word and America doesn't mean the same thing in the UK?

No, yeah. Yeah. So it's different. Yeah, it's

that level different? Probably. So yeah, I just need to get off my chest. I'm listening to him like, Oh, my God, this is really horrible. This

is funny. So you mentioned you mentioned blue. So Todd, posted in the chat just a minute ago that he's there seeing programmatic advertising CPM, six, between $6 and $14, depending on what did you know, you, you could say that, if you stick it out, if you are, if you are a an advertising supported show, and you stick it out through the dark, you know, through the dark days of the podcast winter, Z, you may you know, the see this, I guess the silver lining is the CPMs

So it's just the whole idea, so antithetical to the love that you get from a podcast like, I'm going to rob the podcast, I'm going to make you listen to this. Whereas I mean, I'd prefer to even even if it's Ben Shapiro going gold. I mean, you know, it's all right. I mean, I can handle that. But it's like, please listen to the ads, please click on our, you know, go to our advertisers websites. No, I mean, it's so much easier to ask for value to be returned. And

I guess, you know, that's, that's what, that's what's wrong with all these discussions, is that they all get talked about just like, I just did it. I just did this. Yeah. Without thinking about it, all of these discussions, you start talking about advertising and all this kind of stuff as in a vacuum as if it's a math problem, right, completely disregard the listener experience, and all that stuff.

And I have the same feeling about all the AI stuff. You know, it's like, okay, yeah, we're gonna make podcasting easier. You know, it'll be simpler. I've heard a whole conversations about, well, we need to make the gear as to auto configure itself, you know, sometimes you got to learn something. You got to learn something. And if you learn something, then you can get good at it. And if you put the time in, you know, this, it's not like a magic money machine.

I still love that. 20 years on. downloads can evaporate 20% over overnight. And we're like whoa.

What? Yeah, like,

like, oh, we, you know, we we get this stuff nailed down. It's fine. And it's like whoosh, yeah. What do you want to see? You know, what's weird is in this hive tube feed. They have a tag in here called podcast colon search. Oh, that's

not a real tag. No. Interesting.

winging it.

Like Sam like Sam Sethi. Sam Sethi just every idea. Oh, I did that.

Hey, Sam, do you know that they have a tag? You don't have? Yeah, maybe better? Yeah. Yeah, fight go.

So what was interesting is that Sam put in the alternate enclosure. And I guess this is it's a hack. I guess it was based upon kind of a flippant remark we made about embedding a YouTube video as an enclosure. And so true. fans.fm has that working? I saw Mitch was working on some stuff. And there was some back and forth, you know, if anyone if this is

I could have sworn that I saw somebody saying that it worked. But I don't remember who or what, or anything like that. I mean, it would, it's got to be easy to test. You know, I mean, like, it just has to be because the altered the HLS streams are supported, like in pod verse in pod fans and podcast

gurus. Clearly Yeah.

And curio caster. Right. But then the thinking

was that that wouldn't be possible YouTube wouldn't let that happen. I'm just wondering if if we'd figured that out? Because I'd love to try it. I mean, I know that Steven B is threatened to put alternate enclosures into sovereign feeds of course. Love that guy.

Yeah, but I mean, yeah, I think that that's see that I mean, there's this tension between between the stuff that Sam is doing and the the hosting companies. No,

I know that I understand why I get it. But if I want to put a PDF into my enclosure, that's valid. As long as I have the MIME type in there.

Yeah, it's just uh, the the alternate enclosure. I mean, that's what

it's for. Yeah, exactly.

And I think the I think the idea is to run you know, if if this Silicon Valley is going to if they're going to take everything from you and give you nothing, well, then, you know, let's ride the master. Advantages

take it from Oh, ultimate enclosures is indeed in sovereign feeds. Well, could

you here's the here's, here's the good, here's the good, what could you

check it out? I can even I can add the source URI and then type length bitrate height, language. Arielle, codecs, default all kinds of stuff is in here.

When did Steven do that? When does he Does he? What does he do all this stuff?

Right after he puts the kids to bed?

While he's putting it?

Oh, cool, so I can mess around with that now,

because I want I wonder if you could do unlist an unlisted YouTube video? Oh, and then just grabbed HLS out of that. Yeah, I just use that as the

I just need to know just need to know how to, quote unquote grab the HLS

Yeah, I don't know that that's, I don't know. I would assume that something like something like YouTube DLC, you know, like that can

write? Right? You can pick it up from there.

I bet you that was a bet you that shows you only try. Let's see if they've got a do I have you to DLC to deal? See? I do not. I will. And I'm not going to install it right now. Because that would crash my computer.

We got 25,000 SATs from Todd Cochran. Oh, he says way behind on episodes after being away for three weeks on a brain break. Oh, man, is it okay, we're able to put it back together the break is the new hack to use YouTube video annoyed me. And it still does a bit Oh, I like this. Being blueberry has supported through video podcasts since the begin beginning fully podcasting two point podcasting to enable.

But look at it this way, though. video, YouTube. Blueberry is one of the only one only hosting companies to support video as an option, and it costs a lot more money because of the bandwidth requirements. This way, you you keep a customer with and they can put in their own alternate video stream perhaps using YouTube HLS they're going to go do it themselves. But you keep the customer because and they don't bail to YouTube or some other video platform. And but

I'm not even gonna get into that argument. What what is the proposal that he's talking about? This is the ultimate feed proposal. Majority. Yeah. Anything that I think that's fine too.

Right. Yeah, the one the discussion we have. Again, namespace stuff to talk about.

You don't want it you want is you want to fire it up. Hit it. And now it's time for some hot names call so hot is heating up the podcast winter.

We kind of something makes me want to want like a Christmas version of hot namespace.

Okay, hold on a second. I think we can do this flip with like sleigh bells or something you name Let me see. Let me say why don't we try this again? Let's see if we can do this. Is not it? No, that's not even close now. Okay, let's try it again. And now it's time for some namespace. You go Christmas namespace talk. Yeah.

Maybe you want to, maybe you have an eggnog with with some leg of Mulan.

Wow, that's very insulting to the Lagavulin, but okay.

MacAllan 18. Oh, yeah,

it gets gets better, gets better McCallum

and you're like, hey, sweet. Hey, sweetheart. Can we talk about namespace the lightning, the lightning interest attribute on the value tag?

Yeah. Oh, honey, I'm so hot for you right now. And

she says I want to divorce. Right.

Right away.

That is that that is something that we need to talk about. So the lightning address thing in the value. We talked about this briefly a few weeks ago. Oscar and and the lb guys wanted it. Want an ad want a new attribute on the value recipient tag? That would take a lightning a key send address, right? So that you could say like, you know, David get alby.com instead of the 100 node ID which is fine. The sticking point though.

But then what do we call it? What

is the name? Is the attributes just going to be called Kison? Lightning address thingy? Is Lola will already

work? You said. Yeah,

keys. And so the idea here would be that you have a instead of a type of node, you have a type of keys and and that unlocks a key send attribute, which then has the key send address in it like David get albedo? That's fine, except for a couple of couple of things. Is this is this than an exclusive thing? Does that mean that now all that you have in the value recipient tag is just the key send attribute with the key send

Yeah, that was just a good question. Where does the resolution happen? Because in my case, that means it got to set up a server, I gotta have a cert gotta do all kinds of

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, this, I'm talking about client side resolution.

How do they resolve it? Where do they resolve it? At what point?

Right? Does the so in this case, cast ematic has to look has to do it looks into splits? Do they have to look up the address before they send you the split? So that they can get the node ID the correct node IDs to send in the lb API calls? Or can or can Franco just provide the address in the lb API call? And lb does the lookup on their side? Whoo,

well, that sounds dangerous, because now you have something that is specific to the wallet. And the wallets API instead of something universal that everybody can just implement and say, okay, but I have to look this up. Right? Because let's put it this way, if it's wallet side, and I decided for whatever reason I wanted to do Adam mccurry.com, I would have to provide that somehow.

Right? If you're if my

wallet and API like that, I mean, it's easier for me to do, even though a pain in the ass, and I won't do it, it will be easier for me to set up a reverse proxy on my start nine and have a well known address type file there that just you know, serves it up instead of trying to figure out how to bake that into my wallet.

I agree. I agree. And so that, then that's really that's that's the issue. I don't think we can move forward until we have an answer. Do we have an answer to that question? Because that's the prioritization question. I think we can. I think we can plow ahead and come up with something on that. That makes sense, right. But the issue of where it gets resolved, if

I'm sorry, could you explain the prioritization one more time, just so I understand what's happening there?

Well, that was just an issue of like, do do we keep? So in one. So with that you have it, let's say you have a value recipient, and it's got to end the value recipient is of type key send, instead of type node, then now do you still keep the node address attribute in there and also have a key send address? And you just say, okay, hey, clients, try key send address first. If that fails, then fall back to try the node. Id got it. That's a little it can get a little squirrely. Yeah,

hold on a second. Try the keys and address first so so there's there will be a fail basically, on my on my blocks, first, it will be a fail. So why do we why are we giving that priority? Am I standing?

Yeah, you're misunderstands the values. This is only if the value recipient type is equal to keys and if it remained if your value recipient type is no like it's always been not an issue because the because the key said address attribute is not even going to be in the tag. Okay, got it. Yeah, but this I don't, I was hoping to wrap this up quickly. But that that issue of of something like cast ematic, potentially having to resolve multiple addresses before they can even do the

so so when you have an app that is just used to sending a key send payment, what does the app developer have to change now? Do they have to talk to the Alby API?

Well, if they so regarding the whole

lightning idea, doesn't it? Well,

the way it would ideally work is if you have if they're going through and making a payment to a value recipient who has a type of node, then per excuse me a type of send keys and then they would have a link, grab the add the address out of there. And just give it to the Albie API and say, here's how much to send. And you're done. Stephen

crater with weighs in? And we take this advice from him seriously? Yes, the app should look up the well known and use the Node Info in the return JSON data, no special API. That's what he says.

Use the Node Info in the return JSON data that the apps themselves the client, yeah,

that's it. But that's, uh, now they could cache they could cache but it is it is it is extra work was

a year because then you got state? You know, I mean, then you got to deal, then you got to deal with one of the two hardest things in, you know, in programming cache invalidation. When do you have? You know, I don't know. It's just, it just seems like, it seems like the server side to me, the API side is the right place to do this. I mean, it's like, it's like asking, you know, it's like saying, Okay, well, I'm getting all this stuff, all my all of my feed data from the podcast index

But but now we're taking the beauty of the Lightning Network out of the equation almost. And you're just you're just doing an API call to a wallet. But

that's what they're doing already, though. Like, like with like, with cast ematic. And in pod verse, they're not doing direct communication with the Lightning Network. They're using LB is there, right,

but in that case, but now we're talking that you have lbs send, and then I'll be as received so you so now the sending wallet, let's just say that cast thematic was using the FUBAR wallet, which just knows how to send key send. Now that wallet now has to change.

The way it sends? I don't think so. No, no, no, because Because Alby in this, in this instance, Abby would be doing the would they be doing the resolution, Alby would be handling node IDs the way it always did under the covers? Right? Initially resolve it,

but that's okay. But now,

so like, it's so take, take the example of you have, you have your Umbral or your start nine attached to your Alby account,

you but let's say I don't, okay. Let's just say I don't to make because Because yeah, now now the sending and the receiving is being done on the lb Wallet. So it's really just an API call is not even a lightning payment.

You see what I'm saying? You're talking about from an lb to an lb.

I'm talking. This is confusing, well in and I think in this case is good that I'm stupid because I can ask the dumb question. So let's say I'm going from an Alby wallet to a fountain wallet. How did how does that work in this scenario was looking up on the API?

Okay, so on fountain let's say you have a podcast that is hosted hostless a podcast is [email protected] and the podcaster claimed it on fountain Yeah, and added their added their note, note information, which which in this case would be something like [email protected]. Right, added their address to their feed that gets sent to podcasts index API. Now pod verse goes to send a payment to that podcaster. They see the address, make a request to albies API to send 1000 SATs

how was it resolving it?

Using the dot well known?

So the wallet does the resolution.

The the API making the payment would do the resolution? If if it's going through an API, like like so for, you know, in this regard, pod verse never does anything itself, it always uses lb, right. So I'm saying that I'm saying that if lb wants this functionality, they should provide the address resolution services. So the clients don't have to do anything diff. So

let's say there's a podcast app. And I'm just imagining something crazy. Let's say that I want to send this payment from my own start nine node that I had, that's my wallet, which is act technically not mounting, that's a thing except through Guillermo is on was it called?

The Chrome extension, pod station, pod station,

pod station, I can connect to my own node. Now how does it work?

The in that, in that situation? Since there is no API intermediary API, pod station would have to do the resolution.

Ah, that's where I have a problem. Okay, because now pod station has to do has to talk to an API somewhere. So pod station has to upgrade.

Well, he does have to chain make a change, but it wouldn't be talking to an API, he would just do an address resolution lookup, which is just an HTTP request. Like his his his example, maybe not be, maybe it's not a great one, because it's mostly a desktop app and a browser extension. And the speeds and everything are probably not going to be a very

I think that maybe I'm confusing or conflating issues. The reason why I'm bringing this up is I'm as you know, I'm a staunch supporter of non custodial wallets, non custodial systems, and we're already seeing the groaning and creaking. And I think we all got a slight, like, a mini heart attack when I'll be stopped. Now, it's all going to be okay.

Yeah, well, this is, this is this is the big, this is the big issue. I mean, like, once you talk about anything, this is, this is not just a Crip crip to you know, cryptocurrency issues, not just a bitcoin is I know, I know, it's true for every thing. I mean, like, anytime you talk about anytime you bring in payment infrastructure into anything. Now you have to think about what's the A, what API are you

If you look at the telegram group, I've seen a lot of Chinese people. And I'm nothing I'm, I'm not going to be racist, but I'm going to be for a second. When you see the Chinese showing up, you'd like Oh, man. Yeah, I would be worried myself like, okay, or is it Korean? Or is it North Korean, South Korean? What are these guys wanting? There's people building bots off of their services. And there's all kinds of stuff going on. I once I dived into what's going on

Was Yeah, I think you're right, I think that's probably very much could be a spam defense measure,

I would think so. Well, the million SATs limit was the obvious canary in the coal mine. They're like, Hey, guys, our mission is we're just a small provider for small day to day payments makes total sense. But now we're look people are Ms, a whole bunch of things going on at the same time. And all I'm saying is and I have no business, being able to really given opinion about this about the API stuff, and who does what other than I would like to see, at all times, we always think

Probably, yeah, you're probably right.

So I don't want this little like, like heart shock we got the other day. I can only imagine.

Well, you know, I think on a long enough, on a long enough time scale, who I don't nobody can say how long. But I think on enough of a timescale, this. The these feel like growing pains of the oven that are natural,

oh, look at the quality of the problem. And this is these are great problems to have. I'm excited about that. Yeah,

so you you're gonna have, like, there's the issue here is that the issue here is that lightning is trying to do something in general, that is very, I don't want to it's Well,

But but but as we move forward. So we we come back to the original question. Do we have who who does the lookup and and how was that handled?

I don't see how we can move forward with a with a proposal that where the lookups have to happen client side? Well, let me let me take that back. That was the wrong way to say that. I don't see how we move forward until we have until we have lb tail and I've asked them this in the discussion

it. Okay, well, balls in their court, then. Yeah, they're having me and let's see Brooklyn 112 As your resident conspiracy therapists, so Hey, brother to help us how he is going through a natural progression. See, Brooklyn's? Like, maybe the music spoke to him. No, no, don't don't I don't think you need to look too far into this.

yet. I think you're right. When when the same thing happened with noster Olson, he, you know, starts getting blasted with Chinese spam. Yeah. Once that stuff starts, man, I mean, it's such a bad day. It's just such crap.

And you know, and exactly. And now that is the, you know, I hear Sam Sethi complaining about the spam advertising. A doesn't have a filter on on Al B, these are all the things those guys we're looking at. I mean, I mean, span vertising. Yeah, it may be cute, but I can see all the problems with that.

Ah, there's a call. There's a cost to every transaction thing. Yeah. Yeah. And the other the other thing in the namespace was deprecation. So as of split off, there's now a deprecation proposals section in the discussion forum. So if somebody if any, does any discussion, any talk about deprecating a tag or getting rid of an attribute or anything like that? Let's move it all over there.

Ah, this is James's, get it out of the namespace part.

Yeah, yes. So we'll we'll talk about all that. And it. I'm cool with him in a formal deprecation section. That way we can talk about because I mean, there's I'm fine with deprecating things but we need to move price segregate that off into its own thing so that we can because deprecation is flame war city.

Yeah, that belongs listen little section of the city. Yeah, because

everybody's gonna get pissed at each other. That's not that's so let's keep let's just kind of isolate it.

Let me read off a couple of we got a lot of people responding through boosted grams. We don't even have to start the segment here. But let me just run down the list. See Brooklyn 112 with a nice row ducks brother 22,002 and 22. Let's keep this going boys. Okay, good. So the conspiracy therapy worked. net net 30,000 SATs Merry Xmas movie house I mean boardroom. There Steven with 1000 SATs we just read that one Sam Sethi has been boosting all along 10,000 SATs if hosts

title yet. No, it's in there. It's been in there. Yep. So Sam likes

to give people these features before they're in the feeds. Yes. Which is a way to do it. Peer

tube supports alternate enclosure.

Right. So

and disk topia does,

so but I can tell you right now blueberries never going to do alternate enclosure. So just forget it. Todd doesn't want to do it. That's his prerogative.

Yeah, he will. He will

know he won't know he won't. I it's it's his own business reasons.

It will wear him down we want.

I'm not gonna wear him down. I'm like, gotta be part of that.

outtake I'll take the bait.

I mean, I'm, I'm publishing I'm going to start publishing alternate enclosures for sure.

I'm gonna send him Christmas presents.

Send him a stream deck. It works wonders.

No.

Well, this is weird because typically he's the delimiter but we got 10,000 SATs from CSV just 15 minutes ago. Marry pod met podcast mess podcasting. 2.0 Yo, CSB. We got another Sam Sethi. 10,000 SATs is not a video hack is using YouTube as a free host next week we will offer free video hosting

Todd said in the chat for you to pace maybe alternate enclosure sees already cracking Wow

take the stream deck back the cracks

the cracks are already forming Oh, he's a pushover I

got that was easy nothing but now are you seeing Bagon 1111 Thank you OYSTEIN Merry Christmas to you phantom power. That's from the Phantom Power Hour. 1000 SATs Dobby Das is the bee's knees D and there's Dobby das with 1000 SATs with his says that video worked on all of the apps 7500 from Dolby das download downloads are really the best podcast metric according to Opie three. Podcasting. 2.0 has a massive fan base in Nepal. That's right.

We're huge in Nepal. at base camp, everybody listens to us at base camp before they climb K two as

well. We need that out T shirt. We're big in Nepal.

I think we are literally big in Nepal. Nepalese with a very small people.

10,000 SATs from Sam again evening from the UK true fans is now open to all fans and live congratulations on the land and the launches. And we've been waiting for this for a long time. I know you have for sure. So we'd love that man. Another 1000 SATs from phantom power. What's up fellas? Happy Friday, then we have oh, okay. This is Todd with 10,000 SATs. This is his analysis of numbers very simple. And why most hosts stats

A few people I wanted to my my sort of guests booking strategy for

which has been lagging has been

a strategy for the last month and a half has been no strategy.

Just no go no book, anybody. I love doing the boardroom just the two of us. I mean, it's nice to have a guest on but i i and this is my end of week therapy brother. I love this.

We needed we needed a guest break. We needed his brain break and we needed to get a break. Yes. But my strategy coming up is we'll have some podcast, podcast errs on and then also Yeah, for Barry. I'm at pod home gonna get him on Yeah, we get back in the swing of things. Yeah. I don't like having guests on two weeks in a row. That's No, no,

no, no, that's no good. No good. Yeah.

We did. Or we think of people who want to go into that. What

did you have anything else on that? Have we tackled all of the things that we needed to talk about? Not all the other thing, what else do you have on your list? Well,

I gotta get. I don't know if I want to get into that necessarily.

Tell me what it is that we're not going to get into. So I can remember.

It's aggregator stuff. And

I gotta tell you been wanting to rewrite it, haven't you?

Yeah, I have but also sort of read, do the structure of it. I have a drawn out a way I think sort of mapped out a way that it can be decentralized. We can decentralize the aggregation. But it's a big topic. It's too we don't have enough time to go into

all this also not something we start just before the holidays. No, no projects for the holidays as bad ideas.

It's like no change Fridays. Yeah.

Exactly. But

I guess the other thing is search improvements. And this is this is tied to my now you know nor nor me. habit of listening to the Gilmore Girls podcast is so this this. This podcast is called I am all in. Do you first of all, as an avid Gilmore Girls fan? Do you get this reference?

Yes, I have my own Gilmore Girls story in a moment.

Okay. This, I feel like I should be drinking a grande flat wire from Starbucks right now. But the so the name of this podcast is I am all in. So if you search for Gilmore Girls in the podcast index, you do not get this podcast back. Oh, nothing about this podcast is findable even though it is an official podcast? You know, like for the show, it's well, that's odd. Because it doesn't say Gilmore Girls anywhere. Any of the index indexable things. So this

is a this is a search problem,

search problem. So I was thinking, we probably need to have some way to add in some extra metadata in the dashboard. So that if somebody notices a problem like this, I really wanted to be able to go into the dashboard, find this podcast, and type in a few extra keywords, Gilmore Girls, or whatever. So that now so that the index can have some more data to work with. Okay, that's all

you want? I'm gonna give you my Gilmore Girls story. Yeah, go for this was our COVID lockdown binge.

Now it's a great binge.

So yes, good. I was on the TV almost all day for no agenda. You know, looking at every single new statement, press conference, everything. I was just obsessed with figuring out what was going on. And, but then at night, we'd watch the Gilmore Girls. And somewhere in August of 2020, there was a no agenda meetup in Las Vegas. It was the super spreader event. And by the wait, no one was sick. No one got sick after this event is and so we're there and there's this guy who had driven

Oh,

I'm like way. I went, oh my god, your worries dad. And I started Sandra. He's dead. As Chris Chris. David Sutcliffe is his name. And he has a podcast. And he actually moved to Austin. Not long after that. So I was it was the weirdest thing. I had an actual moment that many people have done to me. I did it to him like

this, what is what is his podcast? What is his name? Crazy. But

David David Sutcliffe. David Sutcliffe?

Search and index fund is yeah,

this psycho sphere. Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah. David Sutcliffe?

Oh, it's current to he's doing it. Yeah. Return of the Jew is the name of one of his episodes.

He's pretty cool, man. He's got a shot. He's not value for value, though. We should get him on value.

He's not acting anymore. He now he's just he's, he's in the podcast industrial complex.

He actually he does. What is the what is the term? likes he does sessions with multiple people, mainly women, I think and they, you know, they do weekends and retreats and they talk about their feelings. And

does it my job is I do weekend retreats with women.

I'm not saying it. Right. Like workshops, you know, for for mental workshops and stuff. He's He's certified the stuff he really got into that.

Oh, cool. Okay, Nate. I'll

check it out. Yeah, now he's cool. He's a cool, dude. He's cool, dude.

That's all this was. Thanks. Some people. Yes. Okay.

I had one more that came in, actually to Carolyn 12,000 SATs. Merry Christmas. Adam and Dave love to see video on pod verse. It's so cool. It is very cool. And Mike Newman 17,910 Big ups for the whole crew starting with musicians for the innovation fueled by next week's concerts. The response to updating the podcast index features for apps has been really great. We point people to that it needs to show the current capabilities much better now go podcasting. Was you mean

Is that how quickly I deploy things to the website. I think that's what he means. I've been trying to be faster about that what I had been doing in the past was waiting is sort of batching them all up to date and then pushing them out every day

all you know, all in one go.

But people are adding stuff fast now. So I'm trying to to be be quicker. But once you know, as soon as I see a couple of pull requests, I'm trying to push it immediately.

And right at the end, here, right on the cusp. 45,678 45678 Dred Scott Merry Christmas to Bruce waited for our podcast in 2.0. Thank you, brother with a nice little Christmas tree and present emoji. Thank you. No,

thanks, Jared. Get we got some pay pals we get? Bigger the devil Todd and the boys of blueberry and the girls at blueberry $300. Wow.

Sakala blades on am Paula. I just like to remind everybody that when he talked about the value for value model, this is all this is what we do. We started this from zero over three years ago, and we said it has to be valued for value and be heard on numbers. We don't even make the cut for advertising. Yeah. But you know, we have a project that goes along with this. And so it's not just the podcast, it's the whole

yeah. You know, Leo, are you going to do 2.0? No. Oh, yeah. But not doing that crap.

Now. Now he's. Now he's trying to do twit. Twit Club was $7 a month, man open it up. To let a little Yep. Take it take the lid off. Let people support you however they want to with whatever amount that's that's your saving grace brother. That's the way to go.

You know, I told you I told the guys at ATP. Take Take the lid off. And and take the cap off your monthly membership. And they did. Oh, and now you can give them as much as you want. Oh, excellent. Yeah. Twit needs to do the same thing. Take take the cap off. It's not official and it's weird.

It's weird. Like no, don't send me more money. No, no.

Yes. Thank you. Is eaten taught and the team at blueberry? Merry Christmas for the blueberry team. Dave time to get busy on the namespace. Happy podcasting? Yes. We get busy that we

had the namespace hot talk today Christmas version. That to get busy.

Okay, so we got out we got another Oh, we this is from another word from Todd $50. From New Media Productions. Hey, Adam and Dave Todd here, had my main podcast into OneNote dev at a conference this week. And he will be back Monday to fix the value time split bugs we found in final testing. So fingers crossed on VTS for next week. All right. Nice. Thank

you. Thank you. Thank you. So good. As good knows we love that. Yes.

Thank you, Todd and the team at blueberry and Lina also very active over there. Thank you to her. We get up in 1984 4000 SATs from fountains is just for clarification, or just a clarification my blogpost about set based advertising did not involve paying listeners. It was just an idea for how advertisers could buy ad space on podcast using SATs in a way that would give the hosts control over the ads on their content. Sorry for not making that clear in my previous message.

No, that's cool. Yeah,

no apologies required no bad career advice. Chad central Richard 1111 through fountain career. Podcasting 2.0 podcast poll. Is Spotify a centralized pile of music industry insider turd like for yes reply for no. Oh, another bad career advice chat and other sensitive Richard's through fancy says I think one of the challenges of adoption of the boosting ecosystem is the fact that people have to think

yeah there's there's problems as money changer transmitter problems. It's more the legality of it all then then the technical issues. I'm pretty sure that's what's going on there. You

know, the big the big player in this in this whole thing that is sort of missing from this all together a strike. Yeah, yeah, strike could do this. I feel like could do this quickly.

You know who I saw a Channel show up. BTC swan has a channel channel with the index.

Swan. Swan Bitcoin. Yes. Change?

Yeah. So things are moving. You're planning? Well, I don't know. But there's plenty of opportunity. As you said, there's so much opportunity to offer services into these apps. And the apps just have a little a little button. There's opportunity, and it'll come it's all going to come. That's all they will they will

SLS SLC

SLC SLC SLC. Yeah, SLC

12345 sets through fountain This is what are some reasons that of 2.0 app would prevent listener listening or downloading while on a VPN? This happened to me less than a year ago, I tried all VPN protocols and options, no dice. I even got confirmation for the 2.0 def team, that this was on their end, but said they wouldn't share why they were doing it for security route. What

what Deb Tino did is that you?

I'm not a team. It

all depends on your, on your VPN. I mean, that's, that's it, the VPN is going to determine what what can come through or not.

Don't tell us what app it is. Yeah, that way we could get there was a another one. Another was an issue for a while with IPFS. over VPN. Yeah, that was the gateways were blocking.

Yes, yes. Well, IPFS so funny. ipfs.io In general, you know, very often now I see a spam email come through and I'll, you know, I'll hover the link. I'm like, Oh, okay. It's gonna download something from ipfs.io. Yeah, no wonder those guys got killed off by about a lot of spam, spam bots or speaking, firewalls.

Speaking of blocking things, did you see where threads started federating with the fediverse and then immediately blocked noster. No,

wait, it? What is Nasir on the fediverse? What do you mean? Yeah, it's

the, you know, the bridge the most or bridge? Oh, really? Yes, threads, threads started federating. And then immediately blocked the nostril bridge communication.

I have this weird observation. Because I've been studying social media for of course, from the first day when Twitter launched as Twitter and our micro blogging platform instead of a podcast company. And six years ago, I started no agenda social.com the mastodon site about 656 years ago. Without like, a proto person, like MySpace, arguably a social network,

Moto person, that's a great term.

Everybody had Tom as their friend. Remember? Do you remember that? The guy who started MySpace and name was Tom. So when you started a MySpace account, you had Tom that was your first friend. Okay. And with face bag. Zuckerberg was kind of a big guy on there in the beginning, of course, we had ever had and later Jack Dorsey with Twitter. And now Elon Musk and with threads you know, Zuckerberg hasn't posted in a month and not even see it on no agenda. I've

you're the Tom have no agenda. Social. Yes. And

I think what happens is when there's no no singular, or it can be it doesn't have to be one but one or two persons of authority who you know, has some power to kick you off. I think people just lose lose all sense of decorum. And it just becomes just it becomes crappy. And and there's something about the proto person of a social network that has to be there. And you know, and Jack was that for Nasr, but I feel that Jack has pulled back Yeah, which means he hasn't given anybody any more

Yeah, there's when there's no adult in the room. Yeah. Yes. When there's no adult in the room Yeah, exactly, buddy, everybody. Everybody goes feral. Yeah,

yes, exactly. And I think that threads suffers from that and that's not Instagram is not true. And Tik Tok is not true. Those are outliers for some reason. Well,

they were fair already.

They started off Farrell. Right. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, I've just observation. Yeah, that's

that's this feel it feels very true. Say 20 220 2220 vagaro. Doug's from Dave Jackson. Thank you, Dave. Do cast medic he says a great episode that left me no choice but to boost and share. Right you didn't know you were forced to graduate by the IRS 1776. Through fountain he says I still prefer z. This is just listening. He said I still

and I keep publishing this same way through the through Spurlock's interface. And I know pod verse has implemented a switch. And I'm not sure about other apps, but I'm really only doing it for people to integrate the switch. Because believe me, I get I get I from time to time I get a really angry email about it. And I keep saying, you know, that should be an app theme because I'm publishing those as those TOC equals false so they should not be in your end.