Episode 158: Thingamajigger

podcasting 2.0 for December 8 2023, episode 158 sangoma, Jager. Oh hello, everybody. Welcome to the official board meeting for podcasting 2.0 This is where it all goes down. In fact, we are the only boardroom that doesn't do interview predictions because we are in the future. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and Alabama. The man who fights the scrapers every day like a junkyard dog. Say hello to my friend on the other end, the one and only Mr. Dave Jones.

Like Junkyard Dog junkyard, new Junkyard Dog, man,

Junkyard Dog, junkyard dog.

This just, you caught me off guard because I just realized I didn't tweet it into what you said. You said rip it. I know. But I had this right after I fell out of my chair. So I'm not

discombobulated. Dave has eaten so many beef milkshakes, and he's breaking chairs. Now. It's crazy.

Yeah, I mean, like it leaned over to get the shake, and it was just like, pop and all sudden, I was like, fighting this and to not land in the floor.

I wish I wish I'd been recording it because that's exactly what a sight and it was like, oh, conclusion. conclave was like this big, clanking, clanking crash. And it was very

interesting. Lots of stuff happened before the show. You sound terrible. Yeah,

yes. Yeah, we're gonna what do we have? I'm gonna say RSB will it be the code Come on, come on big money. Big money. Big money. Bola Ebola. Black? See got black? Yeah, I think it's either. I mean, we went to Minneapolis for no agenda meet 130 people was fantastic. In and out one one day. Really cool. Fly. Yeah, well, I didn't fly myself. We flew southwest. Okay. And it was dynamite. But you know, you're

Cuz you know, are you what's the what? What are you haven't been flying lately? No, notice this.

Now we flew to Houston. Yeah, I haven't had any destinations. Really? Yeah, I mean, Houston. Houston would have been a good one. But I you know, I had the pastor and his wife. So we had someone else fly us in a little bit bigger plane. Still Still turboprop. You know, I be honest with you, Dave. I'm 59 I fly with my buddy. Mitch, who's my periodontist?

Yeah, it's because you bought his planes got bought?

Yeah, base. And, and you know, we're flying out to Dallas. And just the amount of I mean, I can fly I can I can do all of this. The amount of traffic and stuff and the attentiveness and, you know, the understanding of the situational awareness of any airport, I would go to, I mean, you're still going to we're going to Houston or Dallas, even San Antonio, I mean, it's all going to be within these areas that

Yeah, make a career change. Yeah. Is, are you? I mean, how bad is your illness? Are you? Are you feverish?

Uh, yeah. I mean, I was coughing all night. My throat hurts. My body aches. That's about it. So I know. Oh, you might have COVID Yeah, mind, but I'm not going to test. That's fine.

Don't do. Don't do testing around here anymore. For any No, no.

Do we have home kits but I'm not I'm not going to touch it. I'm just, you know, give me some Advil. I'm good to go. Advil, the

the, the PDF. The pediatrician literally told us like a year ago, they're like now we don't really test for COVID anymore because it's it screws up people's school schedule.

Exactly. Exactly. Anyway, it's been a very powerful week in podcasting. A lot of interesting articles that have come out, based upon the news, which is this

one out of every six employees of Spotify won't be around next year, the company's making those deep cuts to its payroll as it looks to cut expenses. top executives blame higher interest rates saying that they make borrowing for capital expenditures more expensive. The affected employees will receive several months severance. The cut follows two previous layoffs this year, a total of 800 employees were let go. Now.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what we were talking about that it's like they have no capital, that the cost of capital is too expensive because of the you know, the free money riders oversee exactly what we've been saying for a whole year, for a whole year.

And yeah, yeah, it's worth I think it's worth talking about. Because we've been using this term, the free money is gone. And, you know, people have been talking about this. I think, one is some article a while back used the term, like the dumb money is, is gone or something like that.

I wouldn't say it was dumb money. It was just there was free money. I mean, it was free, when it's free money, then you can take big bets on stuff. But

specifically the debt like the details of what you know, what it means when to say that the free money is gone is basically this is the way this works is when you know when interest rates go up. Basically, US Treasuries become more attractive than risky bets, because you have you have US Treasuries paying in specifically treasuries, paying 5%. Plus, investors redirect all their cat, other capital, or their all their free cash that is available for investing, they

But also, people need to remember the Spotify was not an initial public offering in the truest sense of the word. They didn't raise capital, they went to they just appeared on the on the stock market. So you know, it was what is it reverse listing or direct listing? I think they call it so there was no underwriter that, you know, that had all this, you know, that had basically sold shares and got all this extra money, they had money, which they had raised, that privately in

is the music labels. I mean, yes. Yeah. What did it it's similar? You know, I started thinking about it this week. It's similar to Hulu. Hulu was basically the big broadcasters. They're like, you know, they came together and did this essentially joint joint investment. With it, I think it's mostly they've a lot of the pulled out now. And it's mostly Disney left holding the bag. But initially, Hulu was always

So the idea that they had, just to review was let's expand, here's all this free content. Let's take that. And you know, let's have some of our own shows. And then they went off the rails and they they had McKinsey, I think McKinsey interview a lot of people they wrote a whole strategy, a white paper, which never got a copy of that they promised I would get it. And I said no, don't do this is not a good idea. This is just

Think about it. Podcasting has been around for almost two decades, and it's remained largely unchanged. Mainly because of the limitations of RSS. We've been able to replace RSS for on platform distribution, which means that podcasts created on our platform are no longer held back by this outdated technology. This has opened up a new world of opportunity to add features and formats to the podcast listening experience that have never been possible

I would wager to say that didn't materialize anything that was superior.

That was actually my clip. I remember that, oh, maybe. Well, then

here's when we pulled this other one another

way we've been able to innovate on the format. We've made podcasts more interactive, finally enabling a deeper, more intimate connection between creators and their fans. One of our favorite things about podcasting is the unique connection it enables between creators and listeners. It's intimate show, voices are directly in listeners ears. But until now, podcasting has been a one way street creators publish shows and their audiences Listen, traditionally, RSS has

No, that's no, it's because of these limitations. Wasn't that creators and I have a problem with the term creators, creators couldn't it's not they couldn't reach their audiences effectively is that you couldn't track audience members and advertise. And then you were totally able to do it, and you still couldn't pull it off. But

now we're changing that we're changing. Our first way of addressing this was with q&a and polls, both text based questions that can be posed by the show's creators and surface listeners in the Spotify app. These interactive features make it easy for listeners to engage with the people behind their favorite podcasts, and for creators to hear from their audience directly on Spotify. These features are available now

So I am so happy that we just stuck to our guns, we stuck to RSS. Now this doesn't mean that we solve any, any money making issues per se. We don't have any solutions for advertising. In fact, we built out value for value, which does work for people who dive into it. And I think over time, you'll see that value for value will have its hits, real hits. I mean, I consider no agenda to be a hit. I consider the show to be a hit now we can't live off of it. But our project is running

So did do you think video? And what did VT was video? How instrumental was video in the demise of pod show? Of me view? The heck if you had not gone into video, would it? Would you have survived longer? No,

no, because it was an advertising based model. That's why I left. It's like you can't make this work. You can't make it work. Because CPMs are a race to the bottom always. It's always a race to the bottom. So you wind up with you know, cheap, crappy content. And particularly if you're producing video, it gets very expensive very quickly, or at least expensive in in human resource cycles. So it just doesn't work.

But you've got to when it comes to advertising, you have a sort of baseline of like brand, what you could call like brand awareness advertising, that's just never gonna go away. I mean, brands have to, like if you're Johnson and Johnson, you've got to just advertise on a consistent basis to maintain to maintain public awareness of your brand. Yeah, I

don't see a Johnson and Johnson ad anywhere in podcasting. Not a single one. No,

but there's some there's that out there and that stuff is just always going to be there. But it to some degree. I mean, it'll fluctuate a little bit, but there's that back sort of background radiation level of brand awareness advertising, where it's just like, Okay, we, we just got to do this always. But then there's the, you know, the the actual campaigns where they push specific things, and they do and they stick their neck out advertising wise, those, you know, those are taken

It was interesting, because while I was gonna say, you know, what happened is the same thing. Excuse me, the same thing that happened with blogging is people thought, well, I got a blog, I have readers, therefore, I shouldn't be making money. No, it's just not true. I mean, I spent 16 years with the Vortec, building up an audience. And the first four years were not sustainable. You know, we took risks, to get it to where it is, and it was much earlier, you know, the, we

no, no before the defibrillator pads.

They're not going to help. They're not going to help. And I, you know, I wish everybody lots of success. But I think certainly our message is Britain pretty consistent in this. No, it's just it doesn't work. It doesn't work.

You know, the listen to podcast weekly review, or pardon us weekly review. And they were talking about the this 2026 float that that Netflix that mean, excuse me that Spotify supposedly did that now that's, you know, looming that I'm sorry.

Oh, yeah. They have to pay back like $2 billion or something.

Yeah. Right. And that's, you know, I'm sure I'm sure if for sure. That's in there. But one thing that was interesting is the A saw this phrase, in the same article by Ben Thompson, where he mentioned that in 2018, Spotify had renegotiated their royalty rates with the major with the music labels. Yes. And they rate the deal was, according to him that the renegotiated lower rate was in exchange for, quote, guaranteed subscriber growth, unquote, which I

thought I haven't read. I haven't read the piece I'll have to read. Okay. I went looking for confirmation

of this. And I found a few other articles that mentioned the same thing from that period of time it was it was coverage. One was from NPR, where it covered where it covered the renegotiation at the time it happened. It mentions the same thing. And there was another analysis piece that happened around that same time, they mentioned the same thing that basically they had made promises to the record labels that they would have a specific subscriber growth rate in order

That's, that's what saved them probably.

Yeah, you get to, let's say you pay out 200 million over over 10 years, or something like that, whoever whatever the contract was, if that maintains your ability to have lower royalty rates that could pay for itself easily.

There's also a cultural problem at Spotify. And if you recall, I wish I had the clip. I probably don't have any more. Let me see. It was the CT of this. There were all these music artists and we seek to Spotify I wish I had that all these music artists and they were bitching and moaning and complaining about, you know, that they weren't getting paid or whatever. And the CT, I think was the CTO. He says, you know, you really should be happy that we're putting that we have this platform for you.

I remember that. Yeah, we I think we played a clip and yeah, I wish I could find it.

And, and it just showed, you know, because initially, Spotify was a if I if I recall, it was a peer to peer it was kind of like a legal Napster. Initially, it had a peer to peer distribution system. There was something in there that changed later. But they've never really, they've always thought of themselves as hey, we're, we're the big powerful Spotify, and you should just be happy that we let you ride along on our coattails. It's just it's just the, the DNA

Well, I think they inherited that attitude, probably from the music labels because the music or the music labels are that is maybe people arts don't appreciate how big and serious of a business, the music, stuff that music rights holders stuff is if you look I saw the other day you posted something about Rush. Rush is catalog being sold new happened back in like 2014 or so. There's a rush sold their music catalog to this company called ole ole is owned, I think majority owned

no, exactly. Especially if they control it know if they can if they have control. Absolutely. But this has been going on for a long time. And David Bowie famously sold his rights, you know, way back a Shoe Man was in the late 90s for 50 million when 50 million was 50 million. So anyway, long story short, we need to reset what's not we I think we're actually pretty good. I think value for value is starting to show. Benefit. I think that the value for value

as that rate dropped yesterday to 3.7 on the wrong, that'd be

the opposite. They say exactly the opposite of what they want. Yeah. So it's so it's so crooked in the world that the Federal Reserve who prints the US dollar is happy when more people are out of work. It's amazing. Yeah,

that's what they're cheering

they're cheering for it. Yes, exactly.

I brought I brought clips from the media roundtable speaking of radios, because a couple of radio guys know now

this, I heard this. So I'll be interested in going clips up you picked. But this is one of these guys is the professor who teaches podcast does he teach podcasting? What is his actual? What is his course that he teaches? Is audio podcast,

podcasting or something like that? I'm not sure he's the podcast, professor. I don't know.

I mean, I've sparred with him on on Twitter a long time ago. I'm like, What is wrong with you?

I'm sure he's a great guy. I'm not impressed by his analysis. I mean, I'll just put my cards on the table. I mean, which sounds silly because he's a radio veteran. And I'm, you know, I'm just an IT guy. But, I mean, I think I can make the point that some of the analysis is just it has some fundamental contradictions that make me question the whole thing. So let's let's just start off by the basic thesis. And I want to I want to drive a point here, that so they start off by,

is his amplify media, I think is his that's his thing.

Yeah, I mean, advertising is what is advertised? Yes. Advertising. Yeah. So they he is advocating for moving what he's saying moving beyond the RSS feed,

once a podcast, because I think that's where we are at this moment. This takes us up to today. You know, does it have to have that RSS feed? Or is it likely to be something else? And I think about this, and we'll talk about this probably quite a bit. I think about this. Outside of podcast terms, I think about things like NBC, they used to feed shows to affiliates around the country. That's not the business they're in anymore. And weirdly, they used to pay the affiliates. Now the affiliates

That's where you are in podcasting, bro. And I just want to point out, you know, Steven B said, you know, before the music is so small drop in the bucket, that's not the point. All the numbers do what he did with this with this guy is going to be saying, all of the you got to be the biggest you got to have more, you got to grow your show. No, no, that's that's over, that is all going to be over. Nothing will be sustainable anymore. There's too much media. There's too many

I mean, Harvey Harvey has said, right off the bat, I've never I've never watched NBC on an app. Like, yeah, that's there's these these examples of a you know, they're, these are broadcast television, and now they're doing streaming and now they're doing, you know, an app, those those, that's a terrible example because those those streaming apps lose money. They're all bleeding money, left and right. They're not making anything this

Steven Goldstein, he's really a radio guy, the way I see it. He's a professor and a creator of the business of podcasting course. But yeah, that's that's the Steinhardt School of Culture Education, Human Development, okay.

He goes on to clip to talking to talking about chasing audience which is good, can we

be more pliable and so I would like to think that we can move past the RSS feed and be more nimble and focus on garnering audience wherever it comes from.

Does this guy teach how to make good podcasts or just how to get ghost collect to collect audience members like their like their, you know, tarot cards or something?

was about that it's about advertising in this, you know, I've been trying to make this point from for a while now is that there is a what you would, how would you describe this there is a there, there's a separation in these are advertising people they've already made the transition from broadcast radio, to podcasting. There's no loyalty in these in these people to a particular medium. They are advertising. They will that when you're in advertising You fought you go to

But I think we as people in the podcast space, need to be what do I want to show we need to be more flexible?

I love podcast space. Even the podcast makes bro. Yeah,

so he says, in podcasting, we need more, we need to be more flexible than RSS. Okay, keep that word in mind. This was talking about the, with the some of the fundamental contradictions of the things that are being said. So with that in mind, he talks about in in, in clip four about what is RSS well, and as you think about the reason that it's even a discussion, can you just break down for some of the audience why an RSS feed is a material factor and how we even

well, RSS stands for Really Simple Syndication. And that's primarily what it is, is very flexible.

But we got to be more flexible.

Yes, we got to be more flexible, but RSS is flex. So this, this becomes, you know, there's a certain amount of word salad that happens here. And it's this this fundamental difference here between the, the, the podcast between the average digital advertising people, and the actual people who are loyal to ad dollars and brand brands, and the podcast, infrastructure and substrate, people who are loyal to RSS and podcasting,

we were like substrate scale, that's good. That's, that's a sexy word substrate substrate

seems like an old movie from like, the fifth

pod subs.

They and this, this these, one had the, the substrate infrastructure people have they have a loyalty to what podcasting is at its foundation. That all sort of comes into play in clip five here,

it is not dynamic. It doesn't come with a lot of data. A lot of advertisers is you know, far better than I used to dealing with rich data environments. And podcasting has some of that, but it doesn't natively have all of that. But that is what this industry has been built on. And yet, you know, I don't I don't know why it can't or shouldn't evolve.

So how come Spotify couldn't do it? Spotify had rich data. They knew they knew exactly what people were listening to. And how long why couldn't Spotify make it? Why couldn't they pull it off? Because this clearly, it's not just the RSS feed, it's got to be a whole collection of things.

Yeah. And that and that's the that's a great point. Because you have what what they're saying is one thing and what's reality is something different because it's like, well, advertisers are used to rich data. So do you mean rich data in the sense of Nielsen ratings, because that's not very

rich. Now they're talking about total total spying, connecting you with your friends that you're on the same network Bluetooth proximity apps that are tracking your your finger moves, this is the kind of data you know, data brokers, this is the kind of stuff they're used to. In

the only people that make big money in that game are Google. Nobody else may and Facebook fails but he else makes humongous money in the ad word in that arena, the the television arena where data is not rich at all that people are making are making money there. That's that's real. That's real money being spent. And there's no there's no data. I don't just watch that on the air and on the air. And I have to report it to you in a coupon book.

You know what's interesting, at any moment, any podcast, app developer, Marco fountain, anybody could create could put all kinds of tracking stuff in their app, which would, which would give that app a huge advantage? Over you know, over everybody else, and you can put the SDKs into your app. It's amazing. You can do a replay Exactly. See what what somebody

I think it's because if I'm gonna stick my neck out, and guess I think it's because we sort of inherently know in the back of our mind that if we did that, it would be a one shot deal. And then your audience hates you. Yeah. Take the Money and Run option. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because you because as soon as you do that, to your to your customer base, they're out. They're not you. It's you've changed the narrative on

I see almost every week someone yelling at me, what is this podcasting? 2.0 these apps give me ads. I know, bro, that's the podcast, you're listening to? That. That's a guy who's giving you the ads? It's I mean, advertising is not good. In

that manner. Yeah, that's the you mean, you want to hear the pic money shot? Clip six, when is it a podcast? And when is it not? And where do you think that should go? And

I don't care. I gotta I don't care. You know, my background is content and audience and sales dollars Chase ears. So let's go find yours. wherever they are. Figure the mechanics out. Okay,

well, that's totally fair. Totally fair, totally fair. Go do the criticism,

but don't but but the only criticism would be the enemy, even if it even is a criticism is that's not a podcast, that is not somebody who is loyal to podcasting, and trying to make the podcast industry know, into something into something bigger and better. That is somebody who's in the advertising industry, and trying to make the advertising industry bigger and better. And those are two different things. Because you, you do have people whose jobs and livelihoods

Yeah. Well, I mean, there's there's so much wrong with the market now. I mean, imagine your immediate buyer and this, you know, and people saying, hey, everything's down. Why is it down? Well, it's because of the app is just downloading was not downloading him. No, that's not it. It's just down. What is it up down? It's like, there's no clear answers. Everybody's dancing around it. It's just not. Yes, you correct. You don't have rich, great data that you have

fault. Let's just play it. Clearly. Yeah, I remember Pearl Harbor. Yeah. It was in

iOS 70. Yeah.

That I think I mean, like the the download slowdown. That's an interesting phenomenon to the OP is interesting to me, because John Spurlock said he's not seeing that same slowdown on mp3 stats, which means which tells me that the people I would say op three is biased towards podcasters who are very hands on with their shows. You know, I mean, they're, they're people. They're probably people who are very careful and considerate about the way they do their show stats, they're not just going

now, I heard something interesting that, you know, how hosting companies have to renew their cert, their IAB certification before the end of the year, or they know they won't be, quote unquote, certified? What? Is it possible that a lot of these companies just like, well, there's not really a lot of money in advertising anyway, we can give you you know, the numbers that are compliant, but we're not gonna what does it cost? What does it what does it cost these days to? We get certified, I thought

guards down with the host is like, it was like, initially, it was like, 50 grand, yeah, but it's gone down since then. Right. And then they give everybody a coupon

for a drink.

You get everybody a mate, you know, like, like, a gift card to like, drop the price down to like, 12 or something like that. It's still a lot of money 15

A lot of money and made me look hosting companies, their business is very simple. provide good hosting and an interface and a customer support. Then if it's if it's going to cost them too much money for not, you know. I don't know as Nathan Jesus 12 and a half 1000 for a new member. Oh, they really took it down. 6250 for renewable non member. Oh, if you're not a member at 17, five and 887 50. So that's a lot of money. It's realize a lot of money, real money to no money.

What I don't the hosting companies may be looking around and seeing that.

What's the point? That's my point. Exactly.

Yeah. What's the if So here, you can you can juxtapose this with the apple, excuse me, not the apple with the with the podcast slowdown. For some reason that nobody fully understands yet. All the sudden droid downloads across the board just dropped 16 17% Except

for Pocket Casts. That went up. Yeah. I was that worried?

So if you have that, if, if if global downloads can drop by 17%. And nobody knows why, what what's the point of even having some sort of a beast? Well, that's

an excellent point. That's how poor the data really is. We don't even know why.

Yeah, what I would, you know, as a, as an industry, everybody could say, well, we're just we're doing it based on the way that the two point of the last spec that we saw, we're basing everything on that. And that's good enough. Good.

Now this stuff has never worked. I mean, they brought in Terry Semel into YouTube. It's always when you bring the Hollywood people in oh, we're going to now is going to look, AOL. AOL bought Time Warner. Come on. It's been going on forever. Oh, yeah. Wait decision, once we put the technology with the content is going to be great. No, it just it. And this is kind of good, because everybody can now blame

Plus the escape. Escape. Yeah, yeah. I thought. So I have a cron job that runs every day in it. It sets feed, feed priority and popularity. So this cron job runs on the podcast index front end servers. So the the front end API servers, they log every call for 90 days. And every every every morning it the cron job runs and looks at yesterday's log and

What is this thing doing here? This is Dave's AI. You let your AI run for a year? Uh huh.

And it just out of curiosity, I'm like, Okay, a little through some stats into it. In, in a day in a 24 hour period, there were 35,169 individual podcast feeds that were requested.

That individual wants to be low. Yeah, individual ones.

Yes. Individual distinct, unique podcast IDs. I think that's pretty interesting. So if we have 4.2 9 million shows in the index, yeah. And on a in under 20, in a typical 24 hour period, less than 40,000 of those are actually being in sort of interrogated for their episode list and their metadata.

I would look at jeopardy, I would look at it differently, I would say, look at your 60 and 90 day, Episode updates, which is around 400,000. So your almost 40,000 will be 10%. That's how I would look at it because this 4.2 million. Yeah, we know the truth. We know, we know the truth. Podcasting is much smaller than that. It really is. So

yeah, that's a good look. So that out of the 338,000, over, over 30 days, roughly 10. Only about 10% of the of those shows that update in 30 day period. Anyone listening

to this where people are listening to or require let's be fair, or requesting an episode list?

And I think the our our numbers conclusive about it are representing No, but I will say that I mean, shows like, I mean, podcasts, apps, like pod pod verse and fountain. In specifically those two have very long, I mean, they have a lot of client of users. Yeah, lots of users. And those. While this may not be wholly representative, it's a pretty good number. I mean, I feel good about this number that if you just step back and say okay, how many shows do you think, are actually

you'd have to give me uniques per week, per month, then we need to know, we need to know frequency of update of each of these individual shows. But yeah. Yeah, I don't know. We'll

take take the 90 day stat on the index 462,000. So that's how many shows that have published an episode in the last 90 days. If, if even if you know that number, am I okay? Well, those are how many those are how many feeds that are publishing episode episodes? Well, then, and we know there's some duplicates in there and that kind of thing. So we know, there's a margin of error. But if if you then say, if I want me to come at it this way, if I if I said, if I told you if we were

On that's only across our apps.

I'm thinking across the board.

Well, why because this is only this is not. This is only our apps. I mean, you think yeah,

no but our apps Ruth showed 35,000 If I say 50,000 or less, I just have this gut feeling that the number of shows that people actively tune into and listen to on a daily basis across the globe is in the five digit range.

Could be the could be, and still a lot. Oh,

it's a it's a lot. There's not a criticism saying that these could be it's a sort of a real is a real reality check in a way?

Well, I don't know if you can, if you can slice and dice it that way. Because, you know, all of our apps have, you know, under combined probably have under 1% market share of what people are using to listen to podcasts.

So, but it would, but ours would be representative of a whole, you know, because if you take that you take the audience that is let's say if if pod verse has, if pod verse says 10,000 10,000 users and Apple podcasts has 10 million? Well, the the range, the list of shows that they that doesn't affect the number of users doesn't necessarily mean that the range

Okay. Yeah. Well, also, this is, you know, this data that you're talking about is not download data. This is like someone actively is looking for something as a real human probably doing something. Yes. Possibly,

I mean, that you could say searches would be more of an indicator that this is probably this is more like things that are actually there would be initial subscriptions, or catch ups, aggregation help, you know, things like that. I don't know, it's something I want to look at over time, and just out of curiosity, not because there's any, you know,

And it wouldn't surprise me. Yeah, 50,000, it wouldn't surprise me on a global basis, I guess. Yeah. Because

that's actually a lot of shows. I mean, a 50,000 shows a lot of podcast. That's a lot of I mean, that's, that's, you know, a factor of, of 10 more television shows and stuff than there are likely Yeah. So you're already way you're that's so much content that you're way out on a limb already. So I don't know. It's just a point of curiosity to me.

I have a couple things on my list. One is pod roll. So you've been doing work on that? Yeah. Do you want to share with the class?

Well, I'm trying to put it into the I haven't had much coding time this way. But I'm trying to put that into the the API calls them actually, we're already generating the, the lists the JSON lists for those, but now return them in the, in the actual endpoints for podcast, data. So like, when you request a feed, it would also show you the pod roll. Okay. Okay. Right, or the pod roll that that feed is producing, and it's bandwidth.

And I guess the question is, how will Daniel J. Lewis be able to use this to create some magical stats that he can sell to people? That's

his job, as I'm not doing his job for him? Right now?

I'm just curious if you have any thoughts.

I mean, he, he can, he can suck it in and then, you know, start started slicing and dicing and the way he does, he's got it. If anybody needs more stuff in here, like if you if you look at those lists, as you said, Daniel, so it made me think of iTunes IDs. If people need iTunes IDs in there, oh, I

see what you're saying, Hey, can I hand that off? Yeah, let me

know. Because it any the more data that's in there, the less requests they have, they don't have to just turn around and hit the API to get it. I'm also doing something for John, John Booth over transistor, he contacted me about some, some stuff with POD roll. So I'm doing some stuff for him. And I'll, I'll talk about that. I think it's gonna be a new, there's gonna be a new end point for just saying, Here's a batch of feed IDs. Give me all the current metadata for

quite a service.

Yes, just because you can do something with like, just because you can make something work on the normal side doesn't mean that it's just a straight like copy paste over to the other like the the sequels to SQL statements are a really very different. So it takes like brainpower to, to say, Okay, this is what I'm doing over here. And now for the iTunes ID endpoints, I've got to convert that to this equivalent thing over here. It's not always a straightforward is, is it?

Bringing up another point, I want to make sure that Daniel and Sam are both heard activity streams. This isn't when I hear someone saying no one listens to me. Like, I hear you, I hear you. So I've obviously I've looked up activity streams. This is a web standard. So this is supposed to be the fix for everything. I'm not understanding. Do you have

Yes, well, activity streams is the activity streams is related to the JSON LD JSON LD, which is a way to sort of schematized JSON. And bring is sort of like a JSON LD is to is to JSON, sort of what XML was to HTML.

Okay, gotcha. Yeah, gotcha.

It's a lot. That's not an you know that that analogy breaks down. But that's about as close as I can get right now. It's, it's a way to take a schema. And say, because inherently, JSON is schema lists, it's a serialization object serialization, right?

But but it's the point here, because you know, this supposedly is some magic potion. If everyone just did activity streams, we'd have cross app comments, we have booster grams going back and forth, and I just don't understand it. Is there, does anyone run their own servers, their central servers, it just everyone puts a file into their feed? This is kind of the information I'm not gonna I

mean, activity streams, activity streams is an activity pub, I think I've mentioned there on the message on there, they're two sides of the same coin. I mean, activity streams is the sort of the baseline of the way activity pub gets pushed around. So you can say, you know, an AI activity pub defines a set of, of endpoints and things like this, where it's like, okay, you can find this data here, you can find this other data here. There's an inbox and outbox and

good. commuting time. I'm sorry, I tried to get there.

So, but but activity streams, that that idea sort of that model is, yeah, I mean, I think it works. It's just a matter of how you build it out.

I mean, what's interesting is that just cross app comm it's just no app developers care. They have they have, you know, everyone has some kind of implementation. It's in there. There's no, there's no, you know, seamless way to do it. And it just doesn't seem to be some things you, you just can't force it. If if if the app devs aren't doing it, then it's just not gonna happen. Doesn't matter what you choose? Well,

I get I get inspired by stuff like this. I'm glad that like Benjamin and Sam. Oh, thank you very PP. Yeah, it's an object actor, target asset object actor subject. Yes, target. So the, I mean, I liked this idea. Because if it works, and it becomes a really nice experience, then then you have you know, Sam has an app, cast a pod is a platform, excuse me a hosting platform. Now we have to now Yeah, and then you have then you have the fediverse over here that is commenting and

to be honest, if I just look at pod verse and I look at our show, you know, which I always make the route post your your board meeting post. And so you know from the last show underneath you is Spurlock and then Alex gates, and then 33 over 10 or head. I mean, this is all Mastodon comments, but they show up in the app. It's pretty cool. You just have no way to interact from the app. That's that's the main that's the main problem I have is like why can't I just reply here and the app seems

to end if you guys see me if you go to our website and go down and look at into an episode and do

Oh, yeah, of course it all tons of comments.

It is right there. I mean, this is it's all there for the taking.

Yeah, when everybody's busy, everybody's busy. Everyone's busy.

But But see, that's my point is stuff is getting built. It is. You know, it's that and we knew this we you know, we I think we talked about this like a year ago, we started talking about how the the low hanging fruit was, was plucked. Yeah. Now the

hard now the harder now the real work starts.

Yeah, because the hard stuff involves protocols, and protocols. Protocols are harder than markup.

Well, it's a golden age. For us in podcasting, because we are the future being built right now that everything else is old hat. You it's all gonna happen. It's all it's all it's people will become more and more aware. People already are I mean, it's just podcasters need to tell their audiences. That's all. And it's happening.

They have I've got something on my list ask you about. Okay. And this is the image copyright thing with that James had written up, you are an expert in this area, because you, you have six, did you bring the first loss successful lawsuit about Creative Commons? or Yes, about you? Yes, sued people in one when it comes to image copyright infringement? Specifically? Yes. Do you have thoughts on this whole thing?

If that's not quite the same as the as the issue with the Creative Commons lawsuit that I mounted. This is very unique. The United States has smartly, I think, a whole bunch of protections for exactly this. I mean, what this reminded me of, and, you know, James, got it. And we had a little back and forth. Because, you know, in Australia, I guess there's a lot of things you don't have, and one of them is, you know, a very clear way for, you know, a copyright copyright takedown,

I've heard you've talked about this guy. Yeah, he had moved to like LA, he had

Malibu he had the house in Malibu. He had the Ferraris he had, you know, his wife was riding horses all day. And they had, like, the real upscale porn,

by the end of Bitcoin was a Bitcoin, no, no, no, no, real upscale

porn, tie end, high end stuff, like beautifully shot, you know, etc, beautiful models, the whole thing. And, and I was just, I'm just talking about that. And he kind of explains his business, which is not really selling porn to people. It's copyright lawsuits. And the way it would work is, if someone had downloaded usually a torrent or a movie from some file, you know, they they would be snooping IP addresses and boom, they'd send you a note and say, Hey, you clearly downloaded

bucks. It's like a Big Mac. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's an Andrew Jackson.

So and obviously, I think it's good that the James wrote this up. I mean, it's, this is this is not something that happens in America and I guess, bod, pod news is a LLC is a US company. So he got out of it that way. But you know, there's all kinds of to me, this is just a shyster. And I would have been like, oh, yeah, I really want you to come and see. I don't care. I mean, we've had when we had that guy who was like, I'm representing Fox News, and you're breaking copyright.

it's Like, is it a? Is it a lid? You know that this does that comes down to? Is it legal? Yes. Is it ethical? No. I mean, like this is not legal doesn't mean that it's ethical

doesn't make the world go round. Porn porn and IP addresses makes the world go round. That's how you blast in Malibu. That's how you get the place of Malibu. So that

whole thing, that whole scam, though, that has evolved to actual recording of things now subnet that because,

her him and this is going on at your office. No,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is this is the new global scan. Oh, okay. So then in his kitchen, you know who it's catching? Of course, it's catching teenage boy. Yes, obviously. And they, they record you? And or excuse me, you record yourself and send it to them like a dick pic type thing? Oh, good. Then they're like, oh, you know, check this out. I'm gonna send this to all your friends on Facebook unless you give me $200 In the $200 is specifically

is what is what they think that kid can afford? Yes,

exactly. They're like, Okay, we can't do so much that they're that they're gonna freak out and not be able to get the money we do just enough where they could probably scrape it together and send it to us. And there was one example of a guy that got arrested it was doing this scam. He was making millions off this. I mean, whatever in like 100 a day. Whenever

I get any of those emails I send it I reply back. You owe me a Bitcoin. Have you seen that thing? It's got an elbow. Give me a break. You owe me for looking at it. No copyright owner. I'm not that sick. All right, I have first of all, thank you Dame Jennifer for registering modern podcast apps.com. She heard me saying I'm boost the grand ball to modern podcast app. And she's gonna go register that thank you. Of course, that forwards to our app section chyron dear old

In fountain? Yes, I

did. Yes. So they're writing to the to I guess they have write permissions. And they'll write b or whatever splits chyron wants per episode, they'll write that to the value block.

is they have a party there in the partner APIA.

Right, exactly. So now chyron wants to move. He wants to move his feed. But and I guess he wants to move to a host that has you know that has it all native in the feed? Now he's stuck. So the question is, why was he stuck? Because he doesn't he doesn't have a feed that he doesn't have the information. There's no feed that he can look at even and say, Oh, this is this is all the value blocks I had for every single episode.

It would be in the index. Yeah. Yes. But

then but he has to recreate every single one of those one by one. He needs to he needs to do that anyway, right. You know, he wants to so his question is, can he export a feed that has all the value blog, let's just say for argument's sake, he wants to self host Okay, all right. So, he needs a feed that has all of his value blocks in there should that be certainly

can do a feed so they can do a feed import?

Correct. So is that something that we should offer? Which by the way is is an intro is an interesting feature, you know, download your feed as it is from the index is interesting.

That's an that is, I

mean, especially let's say your host blows up and just goes away or whatever, I have a perpetual backup, or is that something fountain should provide since they're providing the shim functionality?

Well, I mean, I guess ideally found sheets should provide it. But that's, you know, we're,

we're first we'd like to facilitate. Yeah,

I mean, we're good. We're good guys.

Speak for yourself. Dave Jones. You owe me five grand. Hey, I saw your IP address.

Yeah, yes. Good for you. Yeah, I mean, we could do that. Yeah, that'd be we could we could export an XML of just sort of the basic, sort of, like, reconstruct a feed. If you need, you know, like, hey, I need a feed of this, right? Yeah, we could, we could do that. I mean, I can build it.

Which brings me to my final point for this board meeting. No. OPML. And, um,

are you gonna, are you gonna? Are you gonna bust my chops for No,

no, no, no, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you a question, a philosophical question. Oh, my favorite can so OPML is the most misunderstood format in the world. affirmed. Yes. And, and this, and this kind of came to me when I saw Christopher icing who he was publishing an OPML file of the, you know, a day's worth of pod pings, which I'm like, this is cool. So I go to import that OPML in my freedom controller, and it basically just shows me a whole list of empty links,

Well, he's doing it wrong,

everybody, everybody does it wrong. I mean, if I if I take any, any OPML export from any app, and I want to import it into a proper OPML Outliner, which never works.

Yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean,

never will. Not a single one of them.

I mean, OPML is, people. The biggest issue with OPML is that it's married to RSS in a way that's wrong. People think that OPML is just an RSS subscription list. Yeah, that's right. It'd be a Mel's not it's not it's OPML is its own thing. It existed before. RSS subscription lists were a thing. Our sister scription lists were just a use case for OPML. But OPML itself is, is a completely independent self self says, you

I just wanted to bring it up, you know, because I'll tell you, here's what I find with OPML. I do all my show notes. In an outliner, on the freedom controller, I publish an HTML, and I publish an OPML. And because I've consistently for about 10 years, published an OPML being at.io exists, you

Yeah, ever when we need us, you know, we just need the sheer Europian mail for for podcasting again, and that's probably something that because, well, this you know what, I'm gonna put that on If

we put in, I don't know, eight years worth of work into the freedom controller, eight years worth, and we had s OPML, we had this whole social construct, which, which integrates seamlessly with RSS feeds, it updates automatically when there's an update from from, you know, an RSS feed, which, you know, is inherently wasn't even a podcast feed, you know, just a blog post. I mean, there's so much beauty in there. That is

going to be my that is going to be my Christmas present to you as a share your OPML endpoint in the API. Okay, let's, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's to, let's do that. Here's, here's how we could do it. We make it we make it where we it will accept an OPML file. So you're in your in, you're in pod fans, and you and you export your feed list and want to in an option can pop up and say, Do you want to share this

I got I like it. I like it. What do you think? I like? Is that my Christmas present? Yeah. Could I have that I have the sweater. Still 2024

Next. Next Christmas. already sent you your Christmas razor for this year. You did you get it yet?

Yeah. You actually. Now I feel like it's like a heel. You sent me a Christmas present? Well,

that's my strategy every year is to send you one and make you feel like crap.

Well worked again. I haven't even received it. And I feel like crap. I feel like crap in general today, just cuz I'm sick. And now you've made me feel even sicker. Thanks, nuts and everybody else and lots of Christmas presents. Yes, you do. I know. You're good at that. You're

gonna like it. I just hope you have a DVD player.

Yeah, I got I got something that yeah, I got a computer that will play that. Can't wait. Okay. Can't wait to see what you've dug up. Now. Dave Jones. As

long as you get a DVD player good. Yes. I do. I guess now porn is not to porn from your guest premiere, buddy. Okay. All right. Good. Good.

Because you get sued for that. $5,000 That's how it goes. Five grand, maybe five grand. Ah, shall we say thanks for people? Yeah, sure. We've been getting a couple of booths here. As we move towards the holidays. Quite an odd isn't nice booths here. Oh, hey, Kim.

Can I ask you something real quick Jeff, come before you do that. What? I'm trying to get James on the show because we usually have him on for Christmas week. What what day, do you what's your Christmas look like?

Oh, what was that? We're gonna have to coordinate that. I got to take a look. Yeah,

that's what I figured. Yeah. You're gonna be you might be busy with family. Oh,

no, we have events you know. But it's all in and around town. We're not traveling. But we do have event we've got events, we got dinners and we got all kinds of stuff so we figured we

always have to do him at night anyway because it timezone site so we could do it like one night Why doesn't

he just get up in the middle of the night?

If he's willing three o'clock in the morning? Yeah, come on. He might not be coherent if he wants

to be on the mighty podcasting 2.0 boardroom that'd be a fun show. Thank you Dobby das are says blue. 7500 Satoshis. And he reminds me correctly. Ainsley. Costello feed is up. Yeah, this is good. This is the live concert. This is going to be to December 20 December 21 mandovi. Das is such a hero. He he got the feed up he got the you know, connected the stream. And he then went and checked every single podcast app to make sure that you know what worked and what didn't guess

Yep, yeah, it's yes. The protocol for for user actions. Yep. Right. Okay,

so we just everyone needs to build that in Okay done taking care of

these rights. I mean, like, it's essentially the, the, you know, his ideas boost that it integrates with booster grams and weight because booster gram is just an action that I users taking. So you can represent that with an X with an activity stream event. Right? Would you absolutely for sure.

We have Dred Scott. Even though he I think he's supposed to be on a long weekend with his wife, but I don't know he's Treb 45678 Thank you, brother. That's actual money these days. With the bitcoin price salty crayon checks in with a row of ducks had to reboot since pod verse is under duress. Oh, no.

What's wrong? I

don't know. I don't know it's under duress, health karma boost for the pod father. Thank you new chair boosts for the pod sage. Hopefully the new chair is beef milkshakes. 35 by five in the pipe. Mike Newman checks in Draper boosts 77,777 SATs and no notes off the crayon again with 4040 and there's comic strip blogger. Oh, love this 10,000 SATs wishing you a Merry crip crypt mus he says crypto must and a happy new fork Bitcoiners yo CSB.

Alright GCSB with the Engel with the English puns, yes, yes.

Crazy. What do you have on your list? Dave? That was that was all the live boosts that came in?

Well, I've got I've got Oscar and the boys of fountains in us $200 from PayPal.

Oh boy. Thank you so much. Oh

Sakala 20 is Blaze only Ambala Thank

you. Those things help

me in the office this this podcast room was so nice now with the new chairs with the assessment some time this couple of nights ago rearrange and everything got rearranged the reason I rearranged because I finally got a UPS battery backup unit. Oh, this is way to go, man. Yeah, yeah. ordered that thing you sent it. It's pretty

powerful. It'll run a lot of gear for for a while.

Yeah, yeah. If it starts beeping at me, I'm going to rip the stupid vapor out of it. I'm going to D solder that I haven't

actually haven't heard it. I don't know if my beeps or not. It's yeah, it's an it's an a server rack cabinet.

So I haven't heard you gotta write yet a 19 inch rack. I

do. I got I got one of those that you sit on the floor. So it's like it's like a quarter rack height. And yeah, I got all my stuff in there. Yeah, I got the got the five gigabit fiber router in there. And I've got my start nine in there.

I know drip? drips that heck, you already have a UPS I tiga. Right? No, no. So

I have the generator. So so when the power goes out, there's always this 25 second delay in cases just a brownout. So the studio stays on. And then the generator kicks in. Everything's beautiful. Amen.

I'm good now gold. Yeah. Dumb. I'm uptight. So. Thank you, Oscar. Appreciate that. $200 Yes, thank you that's very meaningful. Jean Everett 2222. Through fountain he just says

boost boost boost. Gene

bein 20 to 20 tubes erode ducts through cast Maddox as a podcast app that integrates into download you to integrate in a download, downloaded YouTube video would be awesome as most YouTube downloads ended up being ad free.

Now that I saw, there was a lot going on about this. I saw Mitch was looking at it. And Alex gave said Well, here's how you do it. And I don't know if anyone actually took any action on that.

Yeah, from what I heard from what Alex said, it's just at the heart of it's just an HLS stream, so it should work

without anchor, so I guess we'll see any app that will do this. Ainsley Costello video feed will also be able to do this with a YouTube item. Suppose as the reason Okay, all right, well, maybe I'll try it. Do it. I mean, how can I screw up my feeds any worse than I already do? I mean, everything's a mess. You've

had such success with lit I think you should try this thing. It's just harder.

Listen Let is really working for me is John Spurlock's making fun of me. Like,

what was your time zones? Your time zone? Yeah, well, I

mean, it's for me it's like this like AMPM is like when I set it and then I don't check it and it's just, I need to pay more attention. I need to pay more attention to it. It's hilarious hilariously bad. Hey, some

people are still posting on Mastodon will be live in 15 minutes. So I think you're, you're already ahead of the curve. Plus one to see this gene been 20 to 22. Another road dose from Gene Benitez plus one to super chapters. And the way that could integrate could be integrated with podcast hosts existing chapter creation interfaces. It solves the UX aspect in a very clean and simple way. Well, I

didn't understand that at all. You remember super chapters as we're Oh yes. Dovizioso super chapters. Yeah, yeah. works beautifully. It's a great it's a great way to explain it to people.

So Brian of London 1948 Happy Hanukkah Brian. Yes. He says to cast magic he says I hate it but I agree. Posh podcasting 2.0 no agenda and fucking pivot. I can't help myself.

It's harsh, man. Yes, I can't help myself either. I mean it's crazy how loyal I am to my hate Listen, which is pivot it's it's unbelievable it's I'm very less like oh, it's Tuesday. Oh it's Friday my hate listeners out yeah I can't wait. isn't as

I've got a new hate on the media as my I didn't have a hate Listen

well on the now. They had a repeat that a repeat this midweek show. That was lame. I know. It was boring. There's like from January on the media is a good hate. Listen. And after the after the

Trump thing. I'm like they've got he's gotten me by the short hairs.

I wish they were 2.0 boost them. I boost my hate.

I would do that. Do 500 SATs a minute. Boost. Hey,

what did I hear you now? 1001 SATs per minute?

Yeah, you shamed me publicly shamed.

I didn't shame you. I never said anything about it. I have not mentioned my, my booths size at all on my stream size at all. I have not streamed my my powerful stream. I have not mentioned that at all. I keep I keep my support on the QT.

I'm your co host and if you publicly revealed that you have a fat stream as to reveal the size of mastering

but again, I didn't reveal that my stream was fat. It got

it got revealed. So I had to respond. So there's no privacy

anymore. You know, man, look at this. Look at the fatness of that guy stream.

Check out this enormous boost. RP 1984 4000 SATs to fountain says back in September I read a blog post about set based advertising in response to Chris Fisher and a discussion he had on office hours about the ad pocalypse hitting podcasting by ideas similar to what you were talking about and thought you maybe you'd like it. He has a link here tools because it's like a blog post. Yeah, he says also

Spaceballs from the movie Spaceballs? I got it

yeah, that was the 12345 was the combination I

so I think that didn't fountain basically try this. They tried to get the they would give people SATs for listening to ads. I don't think it went anywhere. I think it kind of petered out. So I'm not sure I'm not sure if I've never really believed in that idea. Like, I'll let you know I'll give you my time. I'll listen to your ads if you pay me I just don't know this never quite felt right to me. I don't know. I've never seen implementation.

Karen it's mere mortals podcast 16292 fountains has been awhile since I had an episode where I understood almost nothing I guess are cool.

Podcasts are cool. But I believe me I don't understand either. chyron I'm just hanging on to Dave's coattails. Rene

nega paying three five to one sets through pod verse he says we still have that stupid policy. Okay. All right. That's interesting grammar says we still have that stupid taxes. But the promise we could download not upload anything anywhere except so oh him. I think he's talking about the recordable media tax that you were talking about.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Wait, and so he's in Holland right now They probably they probably don't pay for it they do pay for it so we have this commies

stupid taxes with the promise we could download not upload anything anywhere except software then they said no more downloading and still taxes on everything was storage everything I still download of course yeah wow you criminal

we got your IP address you gotta let her come in here my lawyer five grand Karen

again 2222 from curio carry caster from the mere mortals podcast. He says sent an email just clarify my problem from the last episode. Hope it helps. Yes it did.

We've already fixed your problem. We're going to fix it. Yeah,

I will. I will put a XML export on the thingamajigger

the thing in the JPI Yes, that's great. That's great and Jaeger dot podcast and next thing you have a jigger,

monthlies. We get to see pod verse $50. Thank you pod verse. Mitch and Kreon. Brendon apod, page $25. Part gram $1. Joseph maraca $5 Emilio Kendall, Molina $4, new media $1 and basil Philip $25. Thank you, basil and Lauren ball. $24.20. Thank you, Lauren. And that's our group.

Yeah, we appreciate these. These are this is value for value. We've been talking about it. This is a great example of how value for value works. And the proof is in the pudding. Yeah, we're smoking her own dope here. Let me go take a look at that. Yes, Italico, the tally coin stuff, you can go to podcast index.org. Down at the bottom, there's two links. One

sure. I wonder, when do you think? Do you think Royer? Somebody? He did a breeze SDK overview once before? Do you think he'd be willing to do one just for the podcast developers?

I would I think that would be fantastic. I know that Steven bellows looked at it, but it's doesn't really work. Well, for the PW A's. Yes,

alpha first. Yeah, web apps are gonna be that's gonna be tough.

Why is that?

Well, I mean, because you got you got to have your keys and everything visible. Like, if you're if you're a web only app, and you don't have a server back end, you you can't, you've really essentially can't have any secrets. No. You know what I mean? Because you because it's all going to be visible somewhere. Because the only thing there that the code that runs everything is right there in the browser. So you can't hide it. So you can't he really

I thought curio Kassar use the server. Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah,

Matthew, I'm not sure how he's doing it. But that's just a general problem with PW A's and he may have like one small back end server, but it might not be enough to do sort of this for this level of processing. And

actually, I thought that that lb was going to do an integration with the breeze SDK. So maybe, maybe we still have to ask well, first image we know we talked about if we get to the Get out, guys. Yeah. I noticed that they didn't knock your door down when you mentioned it before that like I got no time for these podcasts. I hate to say hey, like no, do Nasir man like come on

I've got it. I made a note of mustard to myself. Do you got

a lot of notes? How are we going to how are we going to finish out this year with all these notes there's so much to do.

See Bumi and more. It's one of the 12 more it says that

there's a number of more choices in our life. Okay, all right.

All right. I get that note we good?

Yes. All right, brother.

I wanted to say our hosting fees to like the end of the year update on our hosting fees were current only paying 665 a month. Wow. Linode

that's that's, that's up from what it was last year, isn't it? Yeah, it's nearly

100 100 bucks. Yeah. And our Cloudflare bill a month is 90 bucks.

So that's not too bad.

No, it's not bad. That's not bad. We've got some other stuff in there. Like, you know, we got to pay lawyers and accountants and all that good stuff. But yeah, that's our primary. Those are those are two big ones. And

and our notice I've been seeing is all the every payment that goes to node stays on the node. We're pretty good routing node, I think. Yeah. Oh,

yeah. Forget about that. What how much is what's in our bill? What's our bill? 202 voltage to voltage? Yeah, 30 years? Yes.

A little more. Maybe? Yeah, I think it's at least 100 bucks a month. Probably more.

Because it because he like he had to like give us bigger discs or something. Yeah,

he had. Yes. All kinds of bigger stuff. We have a very unique situation. It's like nobody has the amount of transactions we have. It's It's outrageous. Insane. It's insane.

Okay, did you know that are so every every transaction that comes through our node, we sink down to a MySQL database so that we can properly report our own taxes and our oil and all that. I know you do that? Yeah. Yes. So we have a cut every note every transaction that's ever come through our lightning node, the pay podcast and this lightning node we also have a copy in this MySQL database. Wow. Including

all the to V records. Yes. Now that's that's a data bundle. I'd like to mine that would be cool.

It's where we is how we generate the V for the the podcast.

Toss. Yeah, yes, the top top stats. Let's see how many tops do we have today? While we're at podcast index? dot top. Let me see today. It is the top 119

Nice. Yeah, it was 169 last week.

I see this this reads almost like I love it. I got the the Italian guy up in fourth place for you started Yeah, yeah, I always started with that. All sudden, there's all these Italians like posting on my Twitter like lawyer bla bla bla, bla, bla, bla bla booster. Grand Ball.

Solid Italian right there.

This whole thing reads like boosted Grand Ball Christmas comes but once a year, morning love from the door falls bacon on my mind. Nice. Nice. So

we have all those we have all those in the in the database. And that database is now 21 gigs.

Oh, cool. It's pretty big.

That's 21 gigs of that's 21 gigs of nothing but lightning transactions. Gotta love it. Gotta love it three years with a lightning transaction. So

do we archive that at a certain point or view? Move it off into like, do send it to the mountain to tape tape drives on the mountain.

Iron Mountain mountain. That'd be fun at

Costco. This everyone should know about this Costco does a 14 terabyte drive they're selling a single disc Seagate 14 terabyte drive for 149 bucks.

Holy crap.

That's that's that's pretty cheap, man. Oh,

that's dirty for a 14 terabyte drive. Yeah. external drive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 150 bucks. There it is. Yeah. 149 Do you ever in your life, think that you would see the day where we'd have 14 terabytes on a single disk?

Well, considering my first hard drive was for my Mac Plus, and it was an external 20 megabytes scuzzy drive, which was, which was big. And I mean, that that that was like a, like a school bag. That's how big it was. And this got the scuzzy plug. My

dad My dad did some work for IBM a long time ago. He was an RPG as 400 programmer. Oh, yeah. And he got this. He got this little girl some sort of little pin or something. It was like a commemorative thing. And it was a one kilobyte chip. That was like Waco, like static RAM or whatever, in a cold core memory or something like that. It was like this one megabyte chip encased in like, a hard blue side or something like that. It was like this little novelty thing like this is this

Amazing.

Well The desk forever like you, you're looking you just look at it. You're like, oh my god, that

was one megabyte. Well, do you remember? In order to download a picture that was one megabyte it would take literally an hour I think was one megabyte to an hour.

And you just hoped that it was a progressive JPEG.

Yeah. So you could see the chick unveil the black

lacing happens as

exactly alright everybody now now we've gone too far. Dave Have yourself a great weekend, brother. You going back to the office?

Yep. Okay. Get to film better man. Yeah. Oh, no, no, actually, I

I got a second wind here. That's good. No wonder that smells so bad. No. Thank you all chat room. Thanks for being here. Thank you for supporting us value to value podcasting. 2.0 the board room comes back next week. See you then.

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