Episode 155: Landing Zone - podcast episode cover

Episode 155: Landing Zone

Nov 17, 20232 hr 52 min
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Episode description

Podcasting 2.0 November 17th 2023 Episode 155: "Landing Zone"

Adam & Dave discuss LIT live shows, V4V Music and Cyclomatic Complexity

ShowNotes

We are LIT

Bitcoin magazine forgiveness

Ainsley LIT

zap.stream?

How to stream a live event in a podcast, interact with the audience in real-time and exchange value

nostr 2.0 revelation

nostr is a solution looking for a problem

Wavlake feed adds by Mike Neuman

Fedification

Syllogism - Wikipedia

Subscribe to podcasts on the calendar app with PodCal | PodLP Blog

-------------------------------------

MKUltra chat

Transcript Search

What is Value4Value? - Read all about it at Value4Value.info

V4V Stats

Last Modified 11/17/2023 14:37:36 by Freedom Controller  

Transcript

Adam CurryAdam Curry

podcasting 2.0 for November 17 2023, episode 155 landing zone Hello everybody, welcome to podcasting. 2.0 This is the boardroom that wants to vaporize its corporate mothership. That's right. We're here to remove ourselves everything going on with the current state of podcasting the future of podcasting value for value. Yes, we've got all this going on with the namespace podcast index.org podcast index dot social and I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas

Hill Country in Alabama. The man who digs for nuggets in cryptographic libraries wrapped in saying Say hello to my friend on the other end ladies and gentlemen the one and only Mr. day

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's nugget with a sea

Adam CurryAdam Curry

nuggets in cryptographic libraries wrapped in sea dog. I read your posts. I know I know what you're doing. Like yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

that that's we we are going to be we will be lucky if we make it through the show. Because why is that? Oh, now my house is freaking out.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Is it your house? Or is it just Alabama? What's going on Birmingham?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Wish I could tell so we had this issue a few months ago, about two or three months ago, we had this problem where the lights would flicker just just to be like Berber Berber. And that was your nose stop. Yeah, well, no, no, actually, it was not okay. Alabama. The so we I thought it was the house I thought. So I go you know, my first thinking is we live in So we live in a really old house and I've replaced a lot of the wiring our house was built in 1892.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, the wires were that with the cloth covering around it the Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. It starts to rot away slowly over time.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We had knob and tube if you know what that is.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I think I had that when I was in college. I'm not sure if

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's also an only fans channel.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That's the line. That's the one I was looking for.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Helping you ally. Alright, so we hear you we have knob and tube which is like these porcelain. Porcelain standoffs.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh yeah, of course I know it. Yes, I've seen that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And then porcelain tubes that go through the through the joists. And so you like I've gone through there. And over the last almost 10 years we've lived here, I've ended up ripping most of that out. And we've only got about only about 15% of the house left is still not been tube everything else is up to code with Romex and everything. But so I'm immediately thinking when this happened a few months ago, these little blue rubber, you know, lights flickers. I'm like,

well, there must be a bad circuit somewhere. And in then one LED on the circuit goes crazy and makes the all the rest of them freak out. You know? Because who knows? I mean, these LEDs have little computers.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, they're their own entity of goodness. Those things are us. Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And they're all crap, you know? So they ended up not being the case. It was actually the transformer on the pole outside was bad was going bad. Yeah. Because our neighbor said the things he's like, are you awesome lights flickering? Oh, yeah. Yeah, is that the whole neighborhood? You know, essentially Oh, man. So then the power company replaced the transformer. That was like three months ago. Everything's been great. And then two days ago this thing started again. Now as

does do the same thing but what's weird about it? What makes me think is not I don't understand the nature of this problem. Because when this happens like nothing goes off it's no no computers are affected No TVs? No no Wi Fi seems to be affected by this. It's only the lights and in sometimes you can hear it if you have like a fan running you'll hear it slow down a little bit.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, that that you what that is that's a frequency issue. So frequency Yeah, so this is an you know, the guy that talks about this is Steven b He knows about this stuff. But the grid by itself has to stay in a pretty tight frequency range. And this is why you know wind power is not that great because or even solar power because once everything's on and the sun is shining or the wind is blowing, then there's too

much power. You can't put too much power into the grid it has to be regulated, which is coincidentally why a lot of Bitcoin miners are doing well with the with the grid operators because like Hey, I got all this power. What am I gonna do with it? Why don't I give it on the cheap instead of shutting it down given on the cheap to these bitcoin miner guys. So it has to be within the certain frequency range. And if it dips out Little too low. It's bad all around, but that's what you're seeing.

And so an electric motor, you'll notice that immediately, because based on cycle cycles cycle,

Dave JonesDave Jones

the AC cycle is the 60 cycles, there's maybe dropping like

Adam CurryAdam Curry

59 59.9 or something. It's a real tight range.

Dave JonesDave Jones

So that all right, that limb, limb, okay, so I think I understand what you're saying. It's not a voltage problem is amperage problem or anything like that? It's the it's the frequency with which the current alternates from positive to negative. That's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

my understanding. I'm not the guy to give the real answer. But you know, the yes, that's, that's what and all the grid stuff is measured in the frequencies, not the amount of power. Hmm, yeah, I know. There's another guy. Yes, sir. Ben, the protector of megawatts. He's the guy that can tell you exactly how that works.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That sounds like a power company issue again. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Totally. To me,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

but not not necessarily your transformer that could be Yeah, that can be at the plant or they're switching stuff over or don't have enough. I mean, we have that happen here in Texas. Not because our grid sucks, which we've been sigh opt into believing.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, well, everything sucks in Texas. Yeah. Well, it's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

because, you know, obviously, they want to nationalize our grid. And we're quite happy with our grid, but ERCOT, which is it's, it's basically an exchange, and every five minutes, they update the prices and people have, you know, the some of that stuff has been featured out five years in advance. And that's really what happened with this snowpocalypse is no one was making any money. It's like, I'm not going to turn on this coal plant or anything, because, you know, it takes

three days to warm up. And I don't know if I'm gonna need it. And then the snow hits like, Oops, and we couldn't flip on gas, because the law says it has to go to the consumers first. So it was it was it's really basically the earth the Enron guys. They're running. They're running the exchange, not the grid, but the exchange where the electricity is all commercialized. So

Dave JonesDave Jones

they all they all left Enron, and

Adam CurryAdam Curry

then when they went to prison, no, one or two guys died in prison or in prison, whatever. And then the other guys yeah, they all went to to ERCOT. No, it's horrible. It's horrible.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's great gig if you can get it, I guess. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

no kidding. No kidding. But anyway, yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I was looking for squirrels laying across the powerline outside or something. You know, like

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you said, dripping dripping squirrel juice down on another lock world's squirrel SAP? That's what we call it. Yes. Business in the business. Oh, man. Yeah, I wanted to I wanted to mention something. Something really powerful happened in my life, something powerful has been happening for a while. You know, I've kind of turned I got a lot of not a lot. But I get a significant amount of really ugly emails from time to time, depending on the topic no agenda discusses. Could we

never take sides or anything like that? We're just trying to deconstruct media. People get outraged and spawn up and, and being a new Christian. Yes. Jesus freak, alert. I've, I've resorted to instead of replying like, Well, what do you think you are? You are I'm blocking you. So anything like that? I just say is hey, man, I'm sorry. You seem angry about this. I

don't think I can help anything. But I pray for you. So it's either you know, I will say I hate to say that, or I forgive you for saying this to me.

Dave JonesDave Jones

This is this is the deal, though. This is not that much different. The old Adam. I've been on. I've been CC on angry emails.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, yeah. You remember the old Adam? Yes. And

Dave JonesDave Jones

your reply all would just be like, Why are you so angry bro?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, but I've replied differently to depending on the level. But I've really been very consistent. I mean, it i and i actually, if I write that email before I hit send, I pray for that person real quick. Doesn't that believe me? It's not a long drawn out thing. But it just but it's, it's well met. And what's been happening is when the I mean, I've been getting emails, they're like, Screw you, you have begged that

and I'll say and I'll reply like that. And within an hour, oh, man, I'm sorry, you know, personal let me be completely transformed. So when when Bitcoin magazine didn't publish my piece, and instead came out with this whole noster the noster is going to save the music business article, but in the end, we're talking about the printed magazine. You know, they'd never reached out to me they would you know, they were where's the article? Where's the article? Where's it unless sent

the article. And then, you know, after all, this badgering and I wrote it and I got Tina involved and they didn't publish it and I was disappointed but I wound up sending the guy an email, which he never responded to, but I said, Now, I forgive you for this and not getting back to me and not publishing it. It's okay. Um, that was, that was literally what I said, in the in Steven B's emporium of apps telegram group extravaganza, which has multiple channels. You know, people were mad about

this. So a couple of couple of our guard 2.0 people who were like, screw these guys. And I said, No, no, just I named

Dave JonesDave Jones

Spencer, possibly.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Or Libra. And I said, Yeah, I forgive them. It's okay. It's all going to be alright, and then moved on. And lo and behold, now it's on page 80. So yeah, wasn't top of mind. But in the new Bitcoin magazine, the printed edition, it appeared, I haven't seen it yet. It appears they've printed my article. And I just want to say amen, hallelujah. Because it worked. It worked. Witness preach. I had not expected that. And I'm really happy because I think it comes at a great time. Where, tell

Dave JonesDave Jones

me did is it a date, there's their digital version? Or is it print only right now?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I think it's print only. And then once it's out, and I think it takes several weeks, which is kind of good. It'll be a couple of weeks until this measles pops up. And this was mainly about a short history of I've published it on the on our on podcast index. So so you can find it probably somewhere. You know, it's a brief history of 2.0. You know, what kind of what happened and then value for value as it pertains to the Lightning Network. Of course, I had a heavy Bitcoin slant on it,

because that's what Bitcoin magazine is about. And then I spoke specifically about music, and about the wallet switching technology. So it's perfect for kind of the ramp up that it actually would have been a little too early. I think. In hindsight, now, we have a lot of tracks that are available, people have their apps that are doing value time splits. And with a little luck with and I say luck, this Ainsley Costello just loud concert will stream live in the in a lit stream on

2.0. And I say a little luck because people aren't doing it yet. It's all noster was that noster stuff right now. But I know that Dobby das and I think Alberto are trying to work with those guys and get it on a live stream.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay. I'm gonna be honest and say that I do not have seen the talk of that going on. But I'm not up to speed on what's happening there.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Okay, so this is first avenue in Minneapolis. But this is all mostre people. So we're if it's gonna work is because we make it work, not because they care about us. I'm going to be truthful about it. Yeah, no, I

Dave JonesDave Jones

think you'd be an honest You're not bad.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

No, I'm not being mean. That's fine. You mean they have their mission?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't care about them either. So

Adam CurryAdam Curry

we're, you know, so So we're all pretty excited about the most recent pod con Mexico that rss.com put together, and did it live lit live in video which Fantasticks? Everybody could stream sets? You could boost in real time.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And did you see Alberto's article, in fact, I've linked

Adam CurryAdam Curry

to it in, in our show notes. It says here, how to stream a live event in a podcast interact with the audience in real time and exchange value.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, excellent honor. So

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that's a great article that these guys are not following. And but there's this confusion, you know, it's like there's a lot of excitement around lightning, and value for value. Now, they are calling this a value for value event, which is valid because you can zap while you're watching, but

there's no streaming it's not going to work in the apps. And hopefully, I think dovie Das, who has just been driving a lot of this I think he's trying to work it out with them to to get a stream that we can put lit into the apps I hope that

Dave JonesDave Jones

you can zap as long as you're not zapping from mutiny wallet to the Zeus wallet, then then you're out of luck because those guys because the mutiny wallet people blocked anybody from using their wallet to zap anybody who's using Zeus. So no, it was really I didn't know there's yes, we're seeing zap censorship emerge.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, really?

Unknown

I'm not kidding me. On Nike.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's not that it's incompatible. It's been blocked.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Mutiny, my understanding is that mutiny wallet claimed that they are we're getting payment failures, or HDLC.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Timeout

Dave JonesDave Jones

timeouts. And so they just blocked Zeus.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So there's a bigger thing here. There's a bigger thing going on. I don't think it's malicious, but I think it's ignorance. And I would hate to see but you know, to have two artists that that the pod Kasen 2.0 Music podcasts of supported Ainsley and, and just loud, not be exposed to the full audience, which I believe is really providing the most, the most love and the most value, which is through our apps. So I'm, I'm

just hoping that we that we get this set up. But I mean, I can tell because I've been in some conversations, and I said, Look, I'm just gonna answer questions and point you to the right people. I'm too old and too tired to jump in and go nuts about this stuff. Because I've been around this, this thing. I mean, I did the first cyber cast from the Grammys in 1996. You know, I brought a T one line into the Shrine Auditorium, I'm not doing this anymore. But

Dave JonesDave Jones

and so that you're not being an infrastructure. No, I'm

Adam CurryAdam Curry

not doing that anymore. But you know, here's all the people who are enthusiastic, and they know how to do it, and they can get it set up. So I really hope that that works out. Because it would just be it would just be a shame if it didn't happen. And it's really, it's because there's confusion when people hear value for value. Oh, yeah, that would that's value for value. You know, and lightning, yes. But it's really two different things. So, again, I think that,

you know, the guide from Alberto was fantastic. And dovie Das, you know, he's been the first one out of the gate to turn RSS blue.com into a full service, you know, integrate the music, he understands all the moving parts, I hope that he can pull it off. And, and he should take a split for that. For sure. But overall, there's a, we just want to acknowledge that there's really a lot of distance between what Nasir is doing and what we're doing. But from the outside, it all kind of looks

the same. And it's just go ahead.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Now, I was going to ask what, how? So if they're gonna live stream this? I mean, not sure doesn't have a mechanism for that, does it?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I mean, I don't know if you go no, it's no, it's it's called Zap Dot stream is basically a streaming service, not unlike peer tube, I don't know if it uses peer to button or the hood. And they just pop up a button on the screen and you click on a mountain, then it opens your wallet. I mean, it's, it's just a string, you could use do this on YouTube, and put and put a thing in there. So there's no per minute streaming, there's no booster grams. It's just it's just a zap with a name.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's, I mean, we know that based on what the Dominus developer said that 99% of people who use these who use the app didn't stop using it. There's the other audiences is limited, me, you're just gonna be limited. If you're if you're restricting your audience to noster to just a bunch of, you know, well go

Adam CurryAdam Curry

go look at zapped dot stream and tell me what the max amounts are that you see on these live streams, you know, 1200 SATs, you know, just not receiving a lot. It's, you know, it's not the culture yet. And certainly not of live stream. So anyway, does break since you mentioned the J 65, the

developer of noster. So when he interesting love on Twitter, posts, idea, use noster for recording track, contract splits, a lightning Spotify client pulls the splits, which are cryptographically signed by the tracks, artists, the client stream sites in real time to them, basically, podcasting 2.0 But for music and over Noster, it's so much better. And so that's just a it's just ignorance. He doesn't know he's working on his thing. He doesn't know what we're doing over here.

I agree. People jumped in and went, and I don't and it's fine. I I wish there was a way that we could integrate Nasr. I haven't seen it yet. But right now, when I read this from the main developer of the main app, I got it declared noster is a solution looking for a problem. The URL is like if if if the main developers already trying to think of other ways to make it interesting, that are already kind of solved and working fine. Then you got to start asking yourself questions. And it hurts

the overall system because people were shocked. Shocked, I tell you, so learn that. Not only has Mike Newman been the guy adding wave Lake feeds to the index, but then, you know, worse the wave the wave? Yeah, the wavelet. Michael from wave Lake. He said, Well, it looks like the artists are adding it themselves. So we're not going to do that automatically. It's low priority for us. So he realized. I know but he doesn't

know it either. So they've deprecated the priority of basically hitting the pod ping.

Dave JonesDave Jones

As it was Mike Newman, who we who we lovingly refer to as the shell script. Yeah. Doing it that was doing this one, but you're like one butthole

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, so what's going to happen is eventually Mike is going to get tired of it, or whatever. And then, you know, and artists are going to be disappointed.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I'm already tired of it on Mike's behalf. Me too, My

Adam CurryAdam Curry

finger hurts like now.

Dave JonesDave Jones

This is, uh, so

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I just want to, there's that we there's no way really we can integrate. But when it comes to certain things everybody wins. If we're a little more open and, and, and include everything. Does that make sense?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, this kind of fits into, into some things that I kind of noted, which, you know, Todd, after the last show, Todd Cochran popped into the mastodon and said, you know, hey, I don't understand why in the world activity, pub would be even a priority or a big deal. And I've been working on it, you know, off and on all week. I've made, I've made progress. A lot of it is not visible. But it's, this is one of those things where progress on this is going to be like, molasses not

watching as dry. Maybe not that. It's, it's like, it's like nothing changes. And then lots of things change. And it's because you have to have lots of things in place before any of the things work. But you have to dispatch spend a lot of times a lot of time writing code, in order to get one thing to work.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Can I interrupt you for one moment? Just to read Yes. Or something I thought was very, very telling. Because there are people listening who really don't even know what Macedon is. And, and the reason yes or no, or how it really works. And and it's, I think it's worth just let me see if I could find this real quick. I got a note and the question was

mastered on. Here it is. Sorry for the dummy question. I'm super confused by Mastodon, I have the app on my phone, perhaps at your suggestion, yes, within an account, which is always how I start, meaning recreating a precedence and something new. I can't tell what or where this app lives is that a nostra thing? Is podcast indexed of social justice? Your community, not a broader Mastodon community? Can one boost here? As it relates to private postings? Does that mean

just one person tagged and it's private? So the concept of the fediverse is not even known to a lot of people didn't know the the basic, federated distributed nature of Macedon?

Dave JonesDave Jones

That's interesting.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, you know, we're so it's so natural for us to know this stuff. But here's someone who's on podcast index dot social, and it's trying to understand, so how does this thing work? What is it? Is it just just you guys? And then, and I think the app actually hurts to be honest. I don't think apps make it very apparent to see the full spectrum on a website. So just bear that in mind that people don't really understand that. It is, in fact, in effect, a bit like noster.

Except you you have an account on a relay and your relay talks to other relays. Maybe that's a simple way of explaining it. But even Yeah, even though I'm sorry to interrupt you, no, no, please do even the noster main guy from Damas T said, I should look this up, he said about podcasting. 2.0. And this this, I had to I actually responded to him like what How can you say this? He

says, for podcasting. nostre has the benefit, that it's easier to query than RSS and doesn't require you to run a server. Like someone has to run a server somewhere. What is a relay? It

Dave JonesDave Jones

doesn't require you to run a server either. I mean, like, blood if you want to simplify it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, if you want to just just, I mean, everything has to be served. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it has to come from so it's not like magic. This you know, that relays are servers and that they're not just magic things that that make the noster stuff shoot around poorly.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You don't you don't write your RSS feed. You know, you don't write your your in pub on your front door and everybody sees it. It has to be served by a computer.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, to be fair, he's built something called noster dB. And his app is now you know, you have your app and it takes up 10 gigabytes of space because you're basically your own relay. I mean, this is yes, this is what this is what he's doing. Well,

Dave JonesDave Jones

this says Why is why is that was activity pub important? Scale? You can ask the activity pub, as in this is going to be one of the I can't I found out this week that I can there are certain there are there are I'm trying to figure out how to frame this, it is difficult to convince people of your vision like that is you have, you have specifications and you have protocols. Those are easy to talk about. And like those are easy to discuss. And you can hash them about and

that's why people do because you can. It's easy to talk in though in those terms. When you broaden that out a bit and talk about and talk about vision of a thing. Like, I'm not talking now about a specific protocol anymore.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

You're talking to a guy who had to convince the world that an iPod was for radio shows.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Thank you, thank you, thank you, you you, you know this fight because you had to fight to convince Dave Weiner, what you were what you were fighting to convince him of let me just I want to reef I want to like reframe that whole beginning of RSS and podcasting, as the beginning of podcasting in RSS. What if you go back and you think about it, what you were trying to convince him of was not really a change to the protocol, you were trying to convince him of a vision you

had, this change would enable Yes. And because you saw a future in which this thing that you had thought of produced a particular outcome or a particular result, and you could see it, and you can say in your, you essentially had a syllogism where you're like, if, if, if one, if A is true, and B is true, then C will be true. And you solve the C, but there's a lot but it's very difficult sometimes to convince people that A is true, AND, and OR B is true. Or a plus b will equal see

if that gets lost along the way. And it's not because people are stupid, like No, not at all. We had a car you know, we had a long eventually just bailed out of this thread on on the mastodon server, about the music about the media, the medium tag equals video. And it was a long thread where you know, James and some other people were saying I just don't understand why this is necessary. And and I'm very you know, I'm understanding of that, because it's difficult to to try to explain to somebody

see this. See I'm even falling victim to this.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, first of all, I had to look up the word syllogism, which I thought might be venereal disease or something. But it will make you go crazy. Deductive scheme of a formal argument consisting of a major and or minor premise, and a conclusion.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, so if I did, yeah, yeah, the basic is a you know, a, like, if if statement, a statement one is true, and statement two is true, then statement three, there you go. There you go. And but but in this particular words involved are important though, because typically the way this syllogism is, is talked about is, if statement one is sound. That's the word that's used, if it's sound, and statement two is sound, then statement three will be a logical conclusion from

those two. So that is the set and the sound has to do with your reasons. You know, and as in I fall victim to this and we all do, it's a natural way of thinking to think okay, if I explain in say statement, and I say this, and that is a sound thing, this a sound statement to me, and I also say this, and then I show a conclusion that everybody else will see what I mean and agree to it. That's not the way that it was not the way

the world goes. No, no book because it's a sim. And the reason is simple, is because we don't see people don't see in the same frame of reference. Like that. When you when I have if I have a vision of something, what I'm trying to show is not real. What I'm trying to show is the thing that I see in my head and that's not is the same as a logical conclusion. It's a it's a vision. It's not an argument. And so you can argue all day

long, and you're just talking past each other. Yeah, you what you have to do in this is we've taught, you know, I think we've talked about this before, as some point where you have to do this while I appreciate it Alberto's an RSS, Ben and Alberto. They're just diving going in doing it doing it. Yes. You know, I think I've said before, when you can't come to an agreement. After talking about talking things out for a while, even an open source project, it's time to stop

talking and go build some stuff. Because that's the way that you express the vision in concrete terms. You build a thing, then people can see it. And you no longer have to try to explain it because it's right there in front of them. But I'd say this

Adam CurryAdam Curry

whole project is its roots are based on that. And props to Stephen B for building sovereign feeds, because every vision that was discussed whether it was ours, or someone else's, came to fruition, because we could put it into the feed.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes. Yeah. That Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. So like, in the context of the medium, disco, we're kind of all over the place, but I don't care. In the context of the medium discussion, this is,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

uh, oh, oh, this, this is, you didn't notice that Adam stayed away from this one. I'm like, oh, yeah, I

Dave JonesDave Jones

appreciate that about the, so the tags themselves must be, they must be definite. And I'm trying to use terms here. Very specifically. They have the tags that we use have to be definitive, so that apps know what to do with the content that the tag is referencing. Like, so just, I'm not going to make a big a big thing about medium and video here. But I'm just trying to exemplify something. The MIME types. Don't do that. MIME types express a format? Or playard?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Really format? I always always thought it MIME type defines what player needs to be used what? What was the, in the old Unix world it was the not the dot something dot? There's a file that determines what player will open for a MIME type.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, like, you're talking about, like a protocol scheme. Yeah. Yeah. And so the, the, the MIME type, or the file type, let's just, you know, whatever video, let's just generalize it heavily and say video audio, that just tells you what the format is, it doesn't tell you anything about the content. And so the meat, the medium tag is trying to teh is trying to express express a, an opinion about the content. And so the there there's, it's, it's a hot it's one layer up from

what is happening at the actual format level. And this is a, this is a thing you can explain over and over and over. And it's not, it's easy to misunderstand. Because the problem is not a misunderstanding it. The problem is, we need to see a thing, we need to see the problem. The problem with medium equals video is that no apps are doing anything with it. Peer tube is the closest example of a medium equals video player. But it's native. That's what it does anyway, in is just producing

that. But that's the experience the YouTube experience, the peer tube experience. There's no podcast apps that do that experience. So it's very difficult to understand what the sort of vision of the tag of that of that particular medium in the tag is. And it's poorly named, because we're limited in the English language we got, you know, we're trying to express the thing that's difficult to express. So the all around, I appreciate the confusion. I understand it. I know what that

happens in. You know it, but it's it's the thing that if you take a step back, you also Okay, okay. This is also the reason that Todd comes in and says, I don't understand this activity post me know, what was this a big deal? What was the point of this? The same type of thing. There's a vision here if we you know what I see in my head and this is the best. I'm going to start talking about protocol. Just for a second start talking about what I see in my head is that RSS and activity pub are

like peanut butter and jelly. They they fit together so well. Because they they come from the same ethos, sort of a, a, a shared push pull, like polling sort of polling and posting sort they work the way the web does

Adam CurryAdam Curry

publish subscribe, is that fair to say have subscribed? Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

publish subscribe, which is exactly what RSS is. It's a pub. RSS is Pub Sub. Activity Pub is Pub Sub. These are they they just activity pub does it with JSON over HTTP requests, RSS does it with XML over GET requests, that it's really the same thing. And so since they're so close together, we can merge we can we can merge is not the right word I want to use, we can take these two worlds, and they will fit together well. And then we can bring these these things, we can

bring a sense of community to RSS, that's almost native. Like the issue with the you know, Michael, and when we talked to Michael and Sam a few months ago, or maybe a couple of months ago, I had a phone call with them from WaveLight. And they told us this, you know, an anecdote about how a musician I forget who it was, and said, Well, okay, I've published my

music to wave Lake. But I don't do i Where do I tell people go like to interact with like me and the mute and like, there's no like landing zone where, where I go in now now I can be part of something that social that has to do with

Adam CurryAdam Curry

this is exactly the same that I've heard from an artist saying, okay, I get this, but then where's my fan base? Where's my community? Yeah, same thing.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Exactly. So you have if you have a mess, or if you're a musician, and you have a fediverse account, you're on a mastodon somewhere. And you also have published your music through RSS. If we bridge these two things together, you now have a in your, you just inherited a landing zone, in a, in a social community aspect, without having to do anything else. Yeah, it just, it comes to you, instead of you having to go to it. Like all of a sudden, you have you just you got air

dropped into a party with your content in it. So I think that's important for RSS because we've always tried to use these things like you know, in their good services, you know, a pod page and these things where it's like, okay, I need a place for my or you know, own your own your own.com but nothing those are really just static. Yes, pages for you. They're not they're not social.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, he if I if I can give an example of of the disconnect and connect at the same time. So because we have cross app comments still enabled, I still publish doesn't really matter if it's not taken off, but I still publish that way. So before every podcast I do, by will post a post on no agenda social.com So I'm looking here no agenda episode 16 1608 woke up dead not it should actually be the the lit tag when we start go on. But it's not I do it out when I publish

everything. And because it is posted to our Mastodon server, that and that's not automatic, you know, I've got to post it. And I'm gonna get the URL, put the URL and cross app comments. There is you know, there's anywhere from five to 25 posts or replies under that post that community knows Oh, here, I can talk about it. But the connections are poor. And I'm not really going there myself anymore, because it's not this automatic meshed in peanut butter jelly experience. And

it's just the post is not really an integrated. The RS is not coming from the RSS feed is coming from me copy pasting stuff in. Does that make sense?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, it does make sense and so like that's in that's the experience that this will end up resulting in is that you won't the podcasters get that for free. And they they will get they get an audience they have they have their followers, their subscribers and RSS. Now they can have their followers. You Who are essentially essentially also subscribing to the RSS, but through the activity pub bridge, so that they, the the episode essentially and lands in the

place they already are. And then the party starts there. So

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I like as landing zone as an example. Let's take your pod page example because I use pod page for two shows. Basically, if pod page hooked up activity pub to their back end, it would be dynamite because they got everything in there. They got all of these all these things and now they're doing a

lot of 2.0 tags from the from the feed. You know, that would be a perfect place so they know how to present an episode and a podcast but now give right now is because it's funny because I went there today just to look around some of the new features and I see all these people signed up for my mailing list and like I've a mailing list apparently tops up and there must be 100 people registered for the mailing list and but yet there's it says oh, here's these links. You can import this

mailing list into these other programs. I'm like, No, I want to be right here. I want I want to do from right where I am here. I've got all these people they've opted in. How can I communicate to them now right here on this page.

Dave JonesDave Jones

The magic of the activity pub. outbox is underutilized because Mastodon in its stupidity does not backfill posts from the outbox.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Explain that to me, I was laughing about the stupidity comment. I'll explain

Dave JonesDave Jones

you. Yes. When Mastodon when you go to somebody's profile, if you look, if you search for them, pull them up. Follow them. Mastodon by default does not look at that actors outbox to get all of its old posts and show them to you that the the only way a server gets posts is if somebody else has already gotten them. And so the but the outbox holds, it's like an RSS feed, it holds everything. Everything that you've ever posted is in your outbox, and you can just go in and pull it. So like,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

ah, forever, it's just in there or less pruned, I guess, oh, no, it's

Dave JonesDave Jones

just there. Like it's just there. Like every if you go to like podcast index dot social, slash users slash Adam slash outbox, you will see all of your everything you post is there. So you can have you can read that data and just backfill onto a page. So the, you know, like pod page or somebody, any of these apps that do this sort of thing, can if you have you, if you have your social interact in in your feed, you know, just defining your defining your activity pub user account, they

can just go grab your outbox, and it just, it's there. So there's just so many integration points here, that makes so much sense. And again, I'm not going to try to convince, I'm not going to go to the mat to try to convince everybody of these visions, because the vision will be expressed to the things that we ultimately build. And then, that I'm happy to talk about it. But I don't want to risk making people angry or anything like

that, through through arguments. I think we we all just kind of state our state our case, express our visions as best we can and then we build something. And then it either works or it doesn't. You know, I think ultimately, that's what it comes down to. And I think that the like, that's that's where that's, you know, back to Alberto been doing the lit thing. That's what they did, essentially, they're like they took they saw enough of the vision and they're like, Okay,

well, I'm gonna do this. And now, through the doing of the thing, the vision became clear and coherent to them enough to where Alberto's like, I can write a whole article about this, right? It's in showing it and if you read that article, it is an expression of the lit vision. It's probably the best one I've ever read. Better than this better than myself stack

that I wrote about it a year ago. You know, I think I think this is all very instructive with because it directly relates to the nostra thing noster voice versus RSS, which doesn't, you know, to me seems like a silly battle, but whatever. But if we express if we express these things, in terms of here, let me let me let me just keep going down this rabbit hole for a

second. Like one of the diff most difficult things that I've run Then two so far, and this is really the last step, once this step is done in the activity pub bridge, then we're kind of down. It's all kind of downhill from there. And that's a signing HTTP request with a cryptographic signature. The activity pub requires is, you know, and actually, I don't think the spec really requires it. I think it's and they get say it's in the

spec. But I think Mastodon is the one that made it sort of mandatory, if you want to play with them, which you have to the, the an HTTP HTTP request, that is asking for some action. So for instance, when I've when you follow somebody with an activity pub, what I follow is, is a post request, if I follow you, I'm sending a post request to your inbox. By cast index dot social slash user slash Adam slash inbox, it's a post

request, with a JSON body, this that of type follow. That request has to be, quote, unquote, signed with a cryptographic signature is an RSA Sha 256 signature. So it requires hashing the body, excuse me hashing the headers of the HTTP request, then taking that hash, including it in the body, hashing the entire thing together, and then signing it

with your private key. So first, first step, this past week was determining what signatures are going to be scheming the keys, public keys, private keys, you know, last week, we discussed, you know, just read the whole search of the whole bridge, just use the same keys or whatever, no, we're not going to do that.

What we're doing is, every time some if somebody searches, somebody hits an actor's inbox, so they hit an inbox for, excuse me, an actor document for a podcast, it's going to add that moment is going to generate a set of keys, save them in the database. So now every podcast will get its own set of keys. The those keys will then be used to sign requests to accept a

follow. So in the case where I follow you, my instance of Matt, my Mastodon instance is going to send your is going to send an HTTP POST request with follow to your Macedon instance, then yours is going to respond with a type of except so it's gonna say, you know, hey, I want to follow you follow except this accepting of this exception request accept request has to be signed. So that except request is what we're working on working on signing, right now, we get to the point where we're into

cryptographic libraries. And that's what I was talking about in in Macedon this week, where once you get here, you're you're in the land of wrapped, uh, libraries from other languages that that have the most confusing documentation on

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the land, Red Dragons and demons is there. This

Dave JonesDave Jones

way, there'll be you know, what, there be dragons or whatever. Like, it really is bad in the exam, then I'm tying this all back into the example into where we talked about the vision. Because when you can see plenty of example code. The example code may be in a written in a way that is completely foreign to anything that you are used to. Cryptographic libraries have this. They have the strangest ways of expressing things. I'm a declarative programmer. And I don't mean

that in the sense of declarative versus reactive. I mean, like, in the sense that I'm just like, mostly, line one, line two, line three, line four, line five and being like, I'm just blow through a thing, a break everything down into the smallest bite sized chunks, and string them together. Cryptographic libraries tend to not do the head. They do very strange control flow. And so you have to every time you you're looking at a spec, you're looking at a spec that's right

in front of you. And it says it says here's how you do this. And you're just scratching your head like What the eff Am I looking at? Like, you have to to implementing a protocol is always an exercise I in reading and reverse engineering, you have to read the spec to understand it enough to begin the process of doing the thing, but that's not enough. It'll never be enough. You'll never blindly write a rhotic write things to a spec. Step two is always go see if it works.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

And now I'll just guess here that activity pub spec. You know, bang equals Macedon. Like there's, it's not the same thing.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It is. I don't know if it is. I can't. I can't say one way or another. I think it mostly conforms to the spec. But I think they have their own. I think the only difference is the headers that it requires you to, to digest. So like, I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

guess, I guess I mean that differently. I mean, that in the realm of like, what Mastodon does is not necessarily what you can do with activity pub, the same way someone looks at Mastodon and says, Hmm, what is this, like, this is a closed off thing. You know, there's no way for a new user to come in and know that, you know, what that what the other servers feed is? Or that you can follow someone from another server. There's just no way for someone to see that and understand

what's going on under the hood. Is it one big thing? Is that one big giant database somewhere? That's kind of what I mean? Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think you're right. Yeah, I think that's a good Yeah, I think that's good. Yeah, they the Yeah, cuz Macedon has this weird thing where all the HTTP, all the HTTP requests are required to be signed. But how do you talk to one first, without knowing one of those initial signatures, that you can't verify things that you something you've never talked to before? Right? It was because you don't have the key in advance. Anyway. So there's, there's these there's always a

little weird things about mastodon. The, the, the way, the reverse engineering part, is sort of how you take your like, you write the thing, you try it, you see it break, and then you and then you're like, Huh, that's weird. Why did that happen? You go back, you look at the spec. You're like, Okay, well, maybe I misunderstood that they gave me this block of stuff I'm supposed to hash, maybe, maybe this block of stuff was just for demonstration purposes, maybe, maybe the line breaks in

it aren't actually supposed to be there. So you take out the line breaks. And then you rehash it, and you redo this thing again, you'll still fail. You go through this, you over over over and over and over until you finally get something that almost works. And then you see Ah, okay, this is what I was missing. And by the time you're finished, what you have is your version of the spec.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Your marriage is broken. Your kids have left the house,

Dave JonesDave Jones

yet power surges.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Realizing, Kaczynski, you're living in a shack.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Big old beard. Yeah, so that I'm just trying to express this idea that this is an overarching thing that we deal with in all realms of of programming, namespace respect, development, interpret, just interpersonal trying to work things out between different parties, like with with RSS, and mass, and noster. All of these things suffer from this same sort of fundamental problem, which is, you have wishes, there's a spec and a vision. And then there's your understanding,

and my understanding. And those, those are all four separate completely separate things. And there's hopefully a Venn diagram where there's some overlap. And you look you try to live for, you know, open source software. It is hard open source projects are an attempt to live in the middle of the intersection of Venn Diagram of many different things. And if you do it well, and don't get burned out, and live there as much as possible,

good things happen. If you end up living in the edges where there's no overlap, you either leaves the project or nothing. Nothing fruitful happens. Or you just end up talking to yourself on a Google group all day. I love Venn diagram. If you if you want this my so I brought a whole basket here that

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I saw. I haven't listened to him yet. I'll just I'll just grab one and I'll just grab one BAM magic. Yes. See? Beautiful.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Thank you, Carrie. Well, let

Adam CurryAdam Curry

me ask you a question. So not going to Okay, so the programming side, I barely hung on by a thread and I understand what you're saying. But of course, I get lost the vision part, making this peanut butter jelly sandwich work perfectly. Is your vision now? Because they started off with the desire for certification of the index. Does this mean that everybody can have their own part of the index all of the

index? Do I, as a podcaster? Have? Have my community activity problems, specifically staying away from Mastodon server type names? Is it something that I have an account on through an ISP? Is it both? Is it can I will I be following podcast through this and my app actually talks to my own index? Can by going too far?

Dave JonesDave Jones

There that's I think, ultimately, the vision is to is to fortify things to the point. But I guess we say four to five things and decentralized. By

Adam CurryAdam Curry

definition, with edification, to me is is decentralization.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I guess I'm deep meaning it is like, decentralizing the actual ownership. So that there because what I think what we eventually want is, like different. You know, I mean, what we want is what I Potter was, where you own your part of the directory on my part?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, then what are we? Freedom controller? What are you gonna buy? We're back to the freedom controller.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I mean, it it really, we get I can, you know, we can envision Jane know, James owning Australia, Sam owning it, you know, Northern, you know, Western Europe. I mean, like, that's what, like, I guess what we want, and what I mean, is what I'm gonna say own, I mean, like, be actually authoritative.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, hold on a second, because the just so everyone understands. I potter.org was initially a world outline, you'll have to look that one up. But it was the concept of OPML, outline process process or markup language, where you can use includes. And so I potter.org, the I made up my own top level, which I did by geographic region, it could have been by interest or anything. And I said, Okay, I'm looking for someone from Australia, that actually Germany was probably

the first one or the Netherlands or whatever. But this person would say, oh, I can do that. I'll maintain it for you. If they would put an OPML file an outline on their own server somewhere, which is part of the beauty and part the weakness, of course. And then they would put underneath that some did it by region of the country, some did it by interest group, there are all these different all these different ways that people were

organize it. But it was, if you're familiar with gopher spring back, Gopher, it was very similar to that where you just it was just meant you click OK. Now I'm in Germany, click what's in Germany, and the person in Germany might have said, Okay, I'm including outlines from this guy. He's going to do all these these types of podcasts. And this lady over there, she's really good at tracking hobby podcasts. So she would maintain

that outline episode, there's no real defined structure. So it never became like Yahoo was originally a directory with real defined topics. But what was beautiful about it is you could walk the tree. And so I built this really horrible script that would walk the tree and go through everybody's node overnight and sometimes took a really long time, especially if

it broke somewhere. And it would bring back what was new ale and then I would pop that to the top of the stack and be so but it was a very, I thought beautiful way to connect all podcast together.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It is it that is beautiful. And of course it breaks. It breaks with scale. Same way DNS, like used to be just a big a single file of names and IP addresses. individually. It's like, okay, well, this has to become a decentralized thing where everybody owns their own chunk of DNS and serves it. That that's the same type of thing

that I think we are headed for. Wow, that's pretty big. I, I own my like, we could probably do it to a certain extent, in an ugly way quickly, which is not an attractive thing to do, and we won't, but I mean, it could be done. If you hadn't listed imagine right now you have seven people And one person runs an index that handles feed IDs, zero through a million person number to 1,000,001 through 2 million, you just had seven different indexes. Oh, there's only there's less than 7 million

podcast in the database right now. So that would work. You know, that's, that's too ugly, we're not going to do that. But that's that's sort of the idea. There's like you, you shard the database and have different ownership. And then it comes in through various income points, those can be HTTP REST requests to a front end API that just load balances to whichever appropriate database is going on in the background. It could be, you know, some sort of like DHT IPFS style gateway.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So the way the way to bootstrap that, if I understand you, is to have people start their individual indexes, which are actually landing pages for these podcasts, landing pages and community areas. So for instance, all know, agenda stream podcast could be handled by the no agenda social.com activity pub?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Possibly, yeah, that could be one way to do it, I can see a few ways to slice it, that would be one way. And that's if this activity pub bridge is generic enough. And that's the goal is that that's how

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you that's how you distributed. So have a repo Yeah, and you just pull it in from so then you build a bridge that comes in from the index into your activity pub server, Mastodon or not. And that becomes a landing pages. And

Dave JonesDave Jones

then you're, you're talking to the actual index itself, right? Until you have until you

Adam CurryAdam Curry

eventually are getting your updates from the RSS feed or pod paying or somewhere else.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, because you can have you could have, for instance, you know, and right now it talks to the index, but maybe you want it to talk directly to your feed. And not and not in not include not have to go do do an HTTP. That's, that's right. Another way to do it. Because if you wanted to have like your description, if you want to download, download the repo, run it and have it just talk to the no agenda, RSS feed, then you can have an activity pub.no agenda

notes.com. And it's just an interest in all that is is a gateway to your feed. But somebody else may want to be a gateway for the whole index. And they can do that

Adam CurryAdam Curry

too. Right. So right, right, right. Which is and that's perfectly fine. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

or blueberry, or Buzzsprout can run AP, you know, activity pub that blueberry.com. And all their feet. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Which is actually probably a great way to do it. But you can still have your own for your own feet and not have to use their system, even though they'll have it. Right. And how do you work with dupes? And in that case,

Dave JonesDave Jones

no, don't stop talking. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. duplicates.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

duping guy. I mean, they come in to the to the email box. And I can see something like two days old. And when I get to it at the bottom my box like Oh, Dave didn't want to deal with that one. Okay, I got it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's I had a wish list of two things that I could like that somebody would come up and say, you know, hey, I'm going to do a volunteer to do X. One of them would be you can write some stuff that would look at the downloadable weekly database and try to find

Adam CurryAdam Curry

a do try to D dupe it. Right.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And then another one would be write some code that will monitor our API and send me a bad signal. If something goes wonky. There's those are if anybody if anybody wants to pick either of those two projects, I would love that. Like I would love I need an early warning system like something that hits some some of the critical API endpoints like search, and in some of the other ones, like I don't every three or four

minutes doesn't have to it's very low volume. And just if something doesn't return, right or if somebody would get a timeout, then shoot like shoot me an email or a push notification or something. Or or actually or post it to the mastodon or send me like do some sort of automated alerting because I'm not a need some of that.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

In the meantime, if you find a dupe just email it to me

Dave JonesDave Jones

in So that's the

Adam CurryAdam Curry

no I don't mind it, but I, what I have a problem with is people saying, Hi, I'm John. There's three versions of my podcast in the index, can you please remove the older two ones? And thanks, you know, you got no URLs you know, is I can usually discern if I think someone is the real deal of

their owner. That's, you know, that's usually pretty easy to see even though it's not foolproof, but even then it's like, well, I'm not gonna think I'm not even going to try and think this is the older one now you tell me what you want removed. I'll do that for you.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But yeah, like I have a feed that it's missing some of the episodes in it's called Daily News. Like Oh dude, do you like 100 of those in the index? Come on,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

allow me to just read quick two quick booster grams because I think it's, it's not the same but it may be and I just so we're all on the same page. We don't get ahead of each of ourselves. Assam Sethi boosting Hello Sam in in the UK, cold cold UK. Can't believe you guys brought Cameron back. So 10,000 SATs from Sam Sethi pod fans was of course pod fans was built from day one. To support activity streams. We use actor verb object as the structure we have 30 plus verbs. And we can

track user behavior using gamification. And second, we have a vision to export or publish people's activity like RSS feeds or other apps can import this activity feed. This is how we get Prasat boost clips, subscriptions follows etc. That sounds like it's something else from what we're talking about here. Or is it something that happens down the road?

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think it's I think it's a layer on top. I think it's like fade, I think not fade but like like, that sounds like layer two, like I'm I'm T I'm talking about like layer like a layer one. Sort of a more fundamental. And then then that sort of adding once you have that, that's that's in his app. And then once you have this, then those you can always

Adam CurryAdam Curry

come alive, right? It's a little bit the cart before the horse in this net.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Well, now it's didn't then once we if we did that, then we then we can talk to pod fans better, like everything starts to jive, you know,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

right.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Okay, that's if they understand what he's saying correctly.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, Sam's building his own little Emporium. He's building his own podcast index over there. He's importing feeds and validating them.

Dave JonesDave Jones

He's compete. He's competing with Steven V for the most the most apps. What? He's having a real hard time with valid with feed validation. Yes. And what us? You know, my first thought is, welcome to The Club, man. They're really

Adam CurryAdam Curry

we've been doing this for FinTech for 10 years. 12 years, Dave, we've been doing validation.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It is a complete nightmare. It's the amount of times

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that I that I would that I would be using the freedom controller, certainly in the early days, early years, and I say Hey, Dave, I subscribe to this feed. But you know, look at how it shows up or it didn't show up. Or why is it doing this? I mean, you built a set of rules that is astronomical.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I have seen God I think I've seen every verb. What do you think podcast feeds are bad. Go check out blogs. Yeah. Oh my gosh, they are a nightmare. You will see. I've seen an RSS feeds with 25,000 items in them. And they only have a validate. Validate. There's no pub date. There's no Gu ID. There's nothing except a title tag. And the title tag is the exact same on every one.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just more fun. Oh, those are the worst. Yeah, that's the worst. Like, Hey, can you for this particular feed? Can you take this tag and put that in the title tag to make it work? I remember. I remember all that. Sure. Like, I can't discern anything from this thing. Yeah,

Dave JonesDave Jones

the broader RSS ecosystem is it makes the podcasting RSS ecosystem look tame. It does.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

The does. Well, I'm excited. I mean, I know it's a slow build. And it's, it's infrastructure level. You know, I'm kind of like Sam, I guess I'm like, okay, so what did we do on the top here? I'm already at landing pages communities. Oh, wow. But we got a lot of stuff to do under the hood first, and then it seems like the first thing is figuring out this cryptographic handshaking stuff, which is a is a complex.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I'm close. I'm close on that. I've, uh, found a found a few libraries that I can work with. And then I found you last night that I want to, I think I found the last piece of the puzzle that one of the Another problem with cryptic cryptographic stuff is they return crazy types. So instead of, they don't work like humans expect. So, for instance, we're storing in the database, we're storing a public key and a private key. And the, we're storing for simplicity to avoid

type messes. I'm just storing them as PEM encoded strings. So that's like, you know how you Yeah, when you see the signature, it says, like, begin RSA key, and it's got the dashes, and then it has a big base 64 encoded thing. And then at the end, it says End Mino string, like, that's just text. So it's okay, we're just going to store that as text. And then I'm going to convert that from the PEM encoded text back into a private key so that I can then sign the request. Well, the

functions are the methods that return that do that. They were they don't necessarily return a type that is in any way useful for any other library. So they may return just an array an array of bytes. And like, what do I do with this? I mean, like, it's actually, it's not that it's not that it actually would be pretty useful. It gets worse because they're what they return is their own custom type, their own custom structure with all these members, but what ends up really being at the heart, just

an array of bytes. And it's like, just give me the array, just give me the array of bytes. I can do what I want to with it that, you know, like, it's just the whole, it's, so I finally think I figured out the chain that I need. And if I can get that done, we may be able to actually start following some podcasts next week.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, okay. This is this is moving quickly. That's nice. One

Dave JonesDave Jones

delay of this and is that, Nick? I'm long overdue to get back to the namespace. Because there's a lot of there's stuff happening there that that needs. chaperoning,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you want to talk about that for a second I want to talk about I can't

Dave JonesDave Jones

I don't even know what's going on over there.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

All I know is that James Cridland still wants podcasts images gone is no good. Get rid of it.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, it's what I didn't even know what tag you wanted. Did. Wasn't

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that a drop in for iTunes? Wasn't that the whole point of? No.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, no. So there's stuff happening over there that I need to go to get into enough of dedicated next week to Thanksgiving week is namespace week. I'm going to live in the namespace. Oh, get up to speed on what's happening. There

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I go. So we'll have some hot namespace talk next week in the boardroom. I'll alert the dancing girls.

Dave JonesDave Jones

With Friday I have a family thing so I don't think I can do the show Friday at normal time now. Okay. Well, we have family thanksgiving and Fred.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Well, who says you're allowed to have that?

Dave JonesDave Jones

The lady that owns the house?

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's called a Friendsgiving. Dave but keep up with the kids will Yeah, it's Friendsgiving it's not Thanksgiving. We can't thank anybody. It's just friends giving.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I think I think that's the case. Without that we'll check. Well, we didn't figure that out on signal.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Wow, okay. Well, that's a lot. That's a lot. You've been you've been deep in that brother real deep.

Dave JonesDave Jones

was yeah, I need air. See, was

Adam CurryAdam Curry

there anything else that that popped to the top of the stack I'm trying to think of, of any things that we needed to discuss I mean, right now I'm I'm still just riding high on the music podcasting. I am so loving it. I'm seeing guys come in this guy Cody from Kerrville he got Adobe Das has been just a gem. You know, of course, he's is a pretty small with RSS. blue.com. But, you know, I sent this guy radio guy said, All right, now you got RSS blue.com You'll figure it out. I I can't

be doing this support for everybody. But you know, all of a sudden, boom sidestream music podcasts on the 1000 really helpful and really worked out and I got it all rockin. And

he's onboarding musicians. And we got to Steve Webb is onboarding people from the 70s who own their music again, and are just blown away like you know, they're, they have either they're retired and have some some savings or, or they were super successful, but they're just amazed to see that they actually see value coming in as like, people are liking my stuff. It's so beautiful to watch. It's just phenomenal.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Is when you're when you're small, like Devadasi you're shifty. Yes, you're agile. Then you can do whatever you want. Pod

Adam CurryAdam Curry

home.fm is another one.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Barry pushed a put Barry and a couple other people had some stuff. They had some PRs on the main website that I pushed to production today, so that should be caught

Adam CurryAdam Curry

up, though in the podcast app on the Apps page. Cool. Cool. Yep. Yep. Yep. So

Dave JonesDave Jones

that think that should be all good. Yeah, I think I think the there's nothing I think of anything else pressing time for

Adam CurryAdam Curry

nice. Oh my god. There we go. Um, time for Nisa that always helps a little bit helps a little bit.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Did you listen to that on the media thing? So the without, I guess

Adam CurryAdam Curry

you mean, the one where they erase two years of podcast history. Yeah, that nothing happened between this and then I met apple that but what was really interesting to me is it really solidified what had happened. I mean, we're in. We're in a podcast winter. And I've been through a podcast winter before. And it was really right after podcasting exploded with it. It was an iTunes and what happened there is Twitter, and Twitter. Because podcasting, what was happening in 2007 2678.

Of course, we had a couple of things. The main, I'd say beyond the iPod was the iPhone that came out and beyond the excitement around what could be done with that. But Twitter didn't launch as odio as a as a podcast company, but launched as a microblogging site, because that's truly what it was. And was initially based on RSS feeds and got real smart, real quick, like, you want to be the aggregator of all things feeds and the publisher, goodbye, that's not going to work. It's

not efficient. That's hence that the fail whale. But then, you know, remember what the reason why Twitter really hit big time is because well, one, the genius of the term follow. Instead of subscribe, they came up with follow, which I think was just still genius genius idea because then you could follow Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore who were tweeting back and forth their love affair was on Twitter. You know, the artists, they all

started to get on Twitter and had followings. And then when you have follow up, this is all this is all the old world, you know, like, oh, how many followers and how many likes and it became this whole thing, and then Facebook and then YouTube came? And, and I'd say YouTube is probably was probably the most destructive or the most, the biggest freeze for podcasting. Even my own company, bomb I got I had meetings board meetings with, with the venture capital investors, like, be more

like YouTube. Yeah. And so we wound up doing a lot of video, it was it was pretty much all video. And what happened. And this is why I always say you can't monetize the network is when you try to aggregate everything. And and you know, it's kind of normal for people to settle into. Alright, this is not pirate radio anymore. We need executive producers and producers and Associate Executive producers, and we need people to get lunch and we need to studios and bigger studios

and nicer studios. And we need ad sales. And we need podcaster relations, to talk to the people when they were upset that they didn't get an ad buy and you need people to talk to the advertisers. And just when when Spotify came in and said, here's our huge companies with a billion dollars, everybody, I don't care who you are, you were hoping for a buyout. You were hoping for Spotify to buy your hosting company for Spotify to buy your podcasts or Spotify to buy you. There's it's normal,

it's just normal. And they made a huge bet and ran it like Hollywood and ran it straight into the ground at what happened at NPR, which is really accents on the media as an NPR, you know, that runs on NPR stations and WNYC they had people on podcasts that had a million dollar budget. And, and you know, there was and here's the weakness of it all because I also listened to that a CEO of The New York Times who was on my

hatless and Unpivot. And, you know, the question was, you know, so you know, they've they've purchased so the New York Times, and I don't fault them for this because print, the newspapers are dead. And the reason why is newspapers used to have news of do journalism, but it was paid for by classified ads, and I went through this whole history, and they laughed at me when I said, you know, this thing called Craigslist, it's going to take away your revenue. It's never gonna

happen. So it did. And you know, so the New York Times has 10 million subscribers. Do you know what people really subscribe to The New York Times for? Word a word? wordles? Yes. Wordle Wordle. So they bought word Oh, they also now sports is another thing that they bought. The athletic, I think is what it's called. So that's fun

Dave JonesDave Jones

video game company. Yes. Yeah.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

So that and the CEO is honest. She says, you know, the way we the way we run our companies, every the first dollar of every dollar you make goes into the newsroom, which Okay, yeah, money is pretty fungible. But I'll take your

Dave JonesDave Jones

word. I'll tell you the first one, the first note, so

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it's just $1? No, but I'll take our word for it. So once again, it's other things funding the news business, which, which is just fine. But the what is, and so the question was, I should have clipped it actually, because it was very subtle, like, so what are you going to do with podcast? Well, we'll continue to innovate with audio. Okay, that's code for nothing. So that the daily is a top podcast. And she was very clear, she says, the advertising market for podcasts collapsed.

Now, is it a broader issue? In advertising? Sure. I mean, that it's digital advertising in general. I mean, I've only recently learned that the true CPM you get so number of dollars, you get per 1000 People who have watched the video on YouTube, and that has to be of a certain amount of time, because the view is also very subjective, is really down about a buck and a half. You know, it's three, it's $3, that they may sell it to the to the advertise it's, it's, it's, it's

not very high. So and that's because there's no artificial lack of supply, you know, how many YouTube videos do you want to advertise on? And, and I truly believe that the party's over, the music has stopped, we all better sit down on a chair really quickly. Because you can't, advertisers are not stupid. And when I hear the CEO of a cast, who clearly is kind of thick minded, say, Well, you know, obviously, our our numbers are down because Apple changed the way they download stuff in

the background. It's like, wow, how could you How can you say this stuff? So advertisers are not dumb. And they're very me to wish, particularly the media buyer. So, hey, podcasting is not hot anymore. Okay. We're advertising on Tiktok. Yeah, we're out. We're out. We're out. So it's over. And the biggest problem is, the podcast industrial complex cannot prove

listeners, they just can't, hence the ad nauseam. Talk about YouTube, because you can go to YouTube and you can get, you know, put your stuff on YouTube and you'll get numbers but then you'll be up to YouTube's advertising machine. The it's over and and more and more over. And God bless. Mitch, I think the ipv6 is really happening. You're not going to be able to track IP addresses anymore. It's just over

Dave JonesDave Jones

the the I got a clip, I grabbed a clip from there's a couple of things in that show that that I thought were interesting. One was the I mean, we kind of we already knew this, really. But it was, I don't know, the way they put it was pretty stark. I mean, basically, in 2018, the podcast industry was already collapsing. correctly. gimlet was starting to they'd never made

Adam CurryAdam Curry

money, you never made money. It was a Hail Mary leading bleeding

Dave JonesDave Jones

to death. And they were about to go under. And they got the Spotify, Hail Mary. Like they just caught lightning in a bottle. People made money. I mean, it was like, it was almost like, you know, 2019 people. A lot of people don't realize that 2019 was a recession. We were in an economic recession in 2019. Then COVID happened. Screwed out or you coincidence. We printed trillions of dollars. Yeah. And then had this boom. And now what we're doing is we're reverting after the party's over reverting

to the mean. Yes, going back to recession, which is where we would have been in 2019. And that is the same thing with with podcasting. You had this artificial expansion by this essentially money printer coming into the market. Yeah, and screwed everything up for a few years and now we're going back

to what it was before. And I think the like so but I got a clip where they he describes the problem with the advertising problem in tied to podcasting he describes it exactly why USC was jazz to public radio stations had long been limited to just three ways of bringing in the dough. Sponsorship, what we call radio ads, membership donations from listeners and grants from

foundations. WNYC is a little different. We also have a distribution arm and we collect syndication fees for nationally distributed shows like Oh, TM. Now WNYC could sell podcast ads without having to jostle for a slot on the crowded radio schedule. Yes, that's it. And that's your that's your unlimited inventory problem.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, yeah. Well, how much storage can add space? How much? How much podcasts Do you want to buy?

Dave JonesDave Jones

You can buy when, when these, when the ad space is unlimited, there's no floor to the CPM. There's no floor to the rate, it can just go.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

It's a race to the bottom. And, again, lack of trust in the metrics, which is in the marketplace, and I'll take some credit for that. Lack of trust for the metrics, always ruin stuff. Because there is no trust in the metrics. There just isn't, you know, the attribution part is complicated. And even Spotify who know stuff, they know, again, money's fungible. So you're looking at AI hearts like, oh, yeah, podcasting is

doing this for us. Well, you know, if you do a buy on, on I Heart across radio stations and podcasts, it's just up to their internal mechanism as to what they attribute to the podcast side of the equation. You know, then that's, that's been going on for a long time. And a lot of those deals were also by, you know, a sponsorship on the radio and an ad on the podcast. But the CEO was honest, she says, you know, does the market just

collapse collapsed. Now, what I truly still believe in is advertisers who are a part of a program again, I always use Linux, the Linux today, guys, was Jupiter broadcasting. I enjoy listening to them talk about products, and say, oh, you know, here, these guys are sponsoring us. We use them whether it's true or not, they usually do. And they talk about how they integrate that gets a little tough when, you know, Linode pulls out, this is always the danger of having sponsors.

But like bridesmaids magazine, you know, that you don't buy it really for the articles. You know, you buy it to find your wedding band, you buy it to find your, your wedding venue, you buy it, you know, for ideas about your wedding. You know, that is that works great. And that's valid. And there's all kinds of ways you can you can show an advertiser that works. It's really per inquiry. That still works. It still does, but this programmatic ads ruined everything that ruins it all.

Because now it's just oh, you know, buy some remnant inventory for 50 cents CPM. bed was looking at her. And now and the next thing you're hearing is I'm seeing these articles pop up. Well, you know, this whole brand safety thing was a little overblown. We went a little bit too far, because, you know, the people who listen to those podcasts, you're still reaching real people who buy stuff, you know, just because they're Nazis doesn't mean that they don't buy stuff.

Dave JonesDave Jones

But this night Nazis wipe their butts.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

But the problem is, it's no it's not about that. We just saw this. This week with Elon Musk, where it's maybe IBM didn't wake up and go, Oh, the horrors. Oh, my. There's an ad for IBM near to a post about you know, someone who hates Jews. No, that's not what happened. Media Matters, trolls, Twitter all day long, looking for looking for, you know, some mess up exactly like this. And then they immediately start posting

and start shaming IBM. Who, by the way, you know, it was IBM, who created and maintained the machines that counted the Jews in World War Two with the punch cards. I'm just saying, there's a book about it. Yes. JC these buddy wrote the book about it. See, this is a fascinating book. But that's that's the problem. That is the culture that has been created. So forget about it, you know, the genies out of the bottle, but unless you're really strong as a brand and which comes down to the CEO,

you're not gonna do it. I think the Bud Light the lesson is another reason why Oh, we got to be very careful because even a brand like Bud Light, the number one beer brands in America can be destroyed.

Dave JonesDave Jones

And when has been then what it's been yes and what is the VP

Adam CurryAdam Curry

of Marketing and now a second to executive has been, has been has left to pursue other interests outside the company. So now it's people themselves, no one's going to take that risk. It's we blew it all up. And I really truly think that algos and ad insertions and programmatic ads. That was the find that was the final. That was the death knell that was the that was the final cut. That just ruined it. I don't think they can come back from it. And why should it really

Dave JonesDave Jones

well, that there's nothing else to do though? I mean, like, there's no there's nothing that it's built. Yeah, it's built now. And so now the race to the bottom begins. Yeah, well, it's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

well underway.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's well, I'm here. There's no There's no more innovation. That's good. So now it's just this is all we're just gonna roll downhill.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yeah, it's become banner ads.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We're, we have a problem here because I did not, uh, fired off the the boosts to the boost to email, and I didn't get any of the email. This was

Adam CurryAdam Curry

interesting. You say this, because I didn't even get our regular morning emails either. Now that think about it. I

Dave JonesDave Jones

didn't either. I think there's an email issue. Clearly there is that I'm gonna have to check Mailgun and make sure, I think so. I can't read boosts because Well,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

luckily, luckily, what I can do, if you'll indulge me, I was indulge, I can do a quick export of my helipad. And we can get pretty close. Okay, all right. Hold on a second. Let me do this. I love heli pad. I can't wait to reply to people in heli pad. That will be the next best thing ever.

Dave JonesDave Jones

They do the Lord's work.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I know he is I know he is. There's something else I wanted and how LeapPad I can't remember what it was. But it's it's so good. Okay, let's see, um, books. So the way you do this if you're using helipad on your podcast, because this did come up on podcasts index dot social the other day the you and I learned this from Dave because I'm by no means am I an Excel guy. So you want to open Excel first. Then you click a blank workbook. It's all these great names so you hit data. And then

from data you go to import data from text or CSV file. Because the reason you want to do this is because then you get a pivot table. Pivot Tables pivot when our pivot tables are badass I love some pivot table. So hold on I'm just doing it now. So I'm going to select this exported boost file from the last week and a half so I know I'll have our data you can hear I'm

covering for the covering for your stream slowness. For some reason being Excel it then it tells me it's connecting to data source, it's a file Come

Dave JonesDave Jones

on, it's a data source. Just doing

Adam CurryAdam Curry

like an ODBC connection or something in my file system

Dave JonesDave Jones

or whatever very large it is many boosts

Adam CurryAdam Curry

well it contains all my boosts so I have to know that's big I now have to select podcasting 2.0 I

Dave JonesDave Jones

think there are parameters where you can filter that yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

no, of course I can't and then I need to check to make sure that the app so I want to remove IPF podcasting. Okay, boom. All right. Here we have the table. Yes. From the pivot table. And now I go back to

Dave JonesDave Jones

what do you love? This is like a webinar on how to use Excel

Adam CurryAdam Curry

if I flipped on the camera Format Cells, okay, so so I can see the message, boom, tax Wrap Text. I've done this so many times. Okay, now I scroll down. And all I need to look for is comics for Blogger and I found him because he is a delimiter and here we go.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, there's magic. Bam. Yes,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

it's super magic. Okay. We have to we do e podcasts are 10,000 SATs because we are on day 10 of national podcast post month. Okay, we did that. We did that. And then we had here's chyron that was also okay. The 11th I think almost second was when was the last show the 10th right so the 11th Here we go. Now was Pyron the bird was around

Dave JonesDave Jones

the flow is all messed up because I usually we're so used to doing this in a batter it

Adam CurryAdam Curry

is it is okay. Sir Sean riser, Kevin Bay. Okay. All right. I think this is good. I think I think we're on a path if 50,000 SATs I'm listening. This is from Kevin Bay. I'm listening to the person Good talk. I'm wondering what would stop someone from using someone else's good say I put Adams good as a person in my podcast, but he has nothing to do With my show, wouldn't I be able to hijack his persona to drive people to my podcast? He wouldn't be able to stop me.

Yep, yes, you could. You could, but you can never really replicate me brother. No one's gonna fall for that was gonna fall for your tricks.

Dave JonesDave Jones

You can also create fake websites that do things. Yes, true. So of course

Adam CurryAdam Curry

that's possible. 3333 from Sir truck driver. No notes. We thank you for that though. We have 1111 from Joel who no note chyron with a row of ducks, a beautiful rendition of criss crossed there at the end. We were singing sailing, yes. Aside from their cowboy music, also known for their 1992 Smash Hit jump, Adam is definitely the daddy Mac. So that would make

Dave the mack daddy okay, yes, perfect. It's on our business cards, Jean being 2222, the central database of person tag registrations could easily be a Git repo that contains the results of each registration and stores the GUID profile picture and any other relevant information if that Git repo was public, anyone could clone it, and present it as desired. Yep. Well, yeah, but that's Yeah, but then you're centralized and you just basically centralizing it on a GitHub Right? Or a Git repo.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yes, it is. It's, I mean, it's centralized in the sense that it exists one but I mean, you can fork it a million times into whatever. But

Adam CurryAdam Curry

the whole idea the whole idea is to decentralize this at the same time that we do this activity pub RSS mindmeld

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah. lots of moving parts, like slowly falling together. Yes.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

We got Mike Dell 10,000 SATs My head hurts, but I think I understand mine to Mike gene Bing again with elite boost 1337 can't help but wonder how we convince all traditional podcast hosts to embrace activitypub Hopefully that will be easier than I think it will be. Well, I don't know. I mean, we convinced a lot of hosts to add the namespace.

Dave JonesDave Jones

There's a lot of there's a lot of people in activity insurance I mean, there really is and

Adam CurryAdam Curry

then gene being again with elite boost another piece of prior art you should look at is funk whale dot audio. Dot audio. They do music and activity pub plus RSS.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, I think you have heard

Adam CurryAdam Curry

of it. Funky so they do activity? Well, let's take a look at that. That's interesting. They are anti Bitcoin. Okay, so they don't want to adopt the namespace. Wow, they do not want us now. But the underlying tech seems very relevant to this episode. Jay Moon 3333 with the boost just listen and 1776 Freedom boost. Thank you for all you do shout out the fountain. Love the music stuff going on there. I'm actually loving having my podcasts and music in the same

app. Shout out also to phantom power music, our loving being able to find a track that he plays in the References tab and go at it to my library without switching apps. That's the dream brother right there. Now I got a call from a reporter from Fortune Magazine. And he wanted to talk about open source value for value and mastodon. And they said and he's a Bitcoin right off the bat, you know, Bitcoin. I said, Well, do you know about value for value in the podcast as well? I know about fountain.

Two. Oh, brother. Do you have a couple minutes? Let me sit down and tell you sort of story. And after I told them you know how everything comes in he goes wow, that's awesome. Said Yes. Yes. Fortune Magazine. Boy. Go read some stuff it

Dave JonesDave Jones

he'll go read then go right. Yeah, please.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Looks like comic strip blogger. Even though he's the delimiter he's not the dilemma because I'm going to do the live boosts after this. Adam and Dave, and this is 32,015. I'd like to extend an invitation to your audience. So listen to the just to good old boys podcast. You can find it at www dot just two good old boys.com. The show is hosted by two Texans. A dude named Ben and Jean, who is an in person friend of Adam. In person, friend. What does that even mean? Yes, he's

been in my house. This podcast stands out due to the host vast experience in the corporate world and business travel yo CSB. By the way, Sergio been instrumental in developing the value for value model. I might add. He helped a lot and really did Yes, he did. Okay. He he helped with the gamification. Yeah, he came up with some really good ideas. I wonder back in the old days when I still didn't in my first house and the second house in Austin

Dave JonesDave Jones

Sergej and the Sheriff of Sheriff Texas is telling

Adam CurryAdam Curry

record 4444 Getting a pre show. Thank you boostin here before heading out of town again for a gig in Wisconsin this weekend. Looking forward to spreading the V for V model capabilities and information to any other musicians there during dinner Saturday night. The signal Keep spreading us right? We all have to do nice satchel of Richard's 11,111 from blueberry for three to count it down that's how many songs we've gotten to upload with Thunder Road dot media to the index if

you got music and want someone to host it hit me up. I will also set intentions to go back on tour as the split kit tech and Broadway shows are so yesterday. Live V for V conference will be pure magic. So yeah, so Thunder Road media. What Buber is doing is he'll help you he'll set you up. Hill host your music and your feed. And he takes I think a 3% split off of everything.

Dave JonesDave Jones

That seems reasonable. I

Adam CurryAdam Curry

love this. This this is the economy I'm talking about. No. And then people say yeah, no one uses Bitcoin. Oh goodness. See, this, we have an ecosystem of proof dripping with proof. Chat F 3333. We just need to put STR on the end of everything we built. Oh, now introducing ln gangster Okay. Podcasts says I'm just gonna be Adam curry stir, and I'll just

change everything. 10,000 SATs from Dobie Das. RSS blue.com There have been instances of RSS blue music show DJs not being able to reference wavelength tracks because they weren't on podcast index. So now, when someone pays a wavelength URL that doesn't have an entry in the podcast index, RSS blue will send out a pod ping with that wavelength Feed URL.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Thank you, brother.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Beautiful. What a beautiful hack.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Interrupt. Interrupt.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Yes, it's one way but we're interrupting where the good guy hack I call it interim. Yeah, we're the good guys. were the good guys. There's those 210 1000 SATs from Sam Sam Sam Sethi we read earlier. Thank you, Sam. Appreciate it. Go check them out at pod fans.fm 15,500 from see Brooklyn 112 Thank you for all your work and the vocabulary lesson. Yes, I learned all kinds of things like cyclomatic complexity.

Yikes. Salty Crayon 3333. How do you board room looking forward to hopefully talking to other V four v music podcasters tomorrow love this way of playing independent artists and seeing the value go back to them. See you there tomorrow. Go podcasting.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Go podcast now. Where's

Adam CurryAdam Curry

he going to be? Let's OYSTEIN bariga OYSTEIN I love that the Oh with a slash through it comes through on my spreadsheet.

Dave JonesDave Jones

It's not always easy Dutch, right. He's Dutch.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I think no, I think he's Norwegian. Scandinavian country I believe. Yeah, that's

Dave JonesDave Jones

that's not a Dutch name. And

Adam CurryAdam Curry

he does the mutton Mead music podcast one a one a one. Okay. And he just says educate me. Daddy. Educated. Assaults crayon back with a short row of ducks. 2222 Did I hear hot namespace is Dave breaking out the red light next week for a late board meeting? Bow. Bow. Wow. Yeah, you better believe it and Dred Scott, we'll figure it out. Dred Scott winds up the whole list here with 45678 Dred Scott, thank you so much, brother. He says just boosting for the boost boosts

and because that's what that's what dribs got does. Let me check that something else didn't come in after the fact now that we've gotten through every single one of them. heli pad rocks, it rocks.

Dave JonesDave Jones

I feel neutered just was sitting back watching you do do that in my job. I'm like,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

can you do the paper towels? You can do the paper towels. I can do paper towels. Yeah, once Yeah.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We got we got a new subscriber $5.50 a month from Michael Hall. Thank you, Michael. Yeah, Michael says beginning monthly support. Thank you for your service.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Thank you, Michael.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We work hard. And then we got some monthlies. We got Terry Keller $5 Chris cow and $5 Paul Saltzman $22.22 Derek J. Vickery. Great name. I love it every time $21 you're on you're on Rosenstein $1, Damon Castle, Jack $15 and Jeremy gerdts $5.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Thank you all very much. This is a value for value proposition. If you don't know what that means. Forbes magazine will explain it to you soon, or go to value for value dot info. That's a pretty good overview of of how it works in the history of it. But really, the idea is, if you like the project, if you like this podcast, if you want it all to continue, then you can send value back to us in three ways time, talent or treasure.

Most people will hand back time and talent in big ways. And a lot of them also provide treasure which is so incredibly appreciated. You can go to podcast index Start org. Go down to the bottom you'll see two red donate buttons, one for your Fiat Pay Pal Fiat fun coupons. The other one is taken as a tally coin in case you just happen to have a Bitcoin laying around. Oh, these guys, they could use a whole Bitcoin. I'll send that to them. I think I'll do that on chain. We'll accept that.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Please do that.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

But we'd love for you to go to new podcast apps.com or podcast apps.com. Grab a modern podcast app, you're going to need it eventually. And remember one of the big features besides the fact you can boost us and send us a booster gram and have it read in the in the thank you segment is that you also get updated. The app updates within like 90 seconds of us publishing. People forget that and I still have so many people say why haven't you uploaded to

Apple yet? That's not how it works. Apple is just old fashioned. Do you want to consider something new?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Yeah, we're like a pack. Yeah, like a podcast app that actually cares about efficiency.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Before we go, you want to play song.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Oh, love the song. Yeah, song. That would be fantastic. I didn't know you're gonna do that. Yeah,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

well, I just had one just in case and this is from one of those guys. This guy actually, when we did the podsafe music networks, and now we're talking back 2007 I think he uploaded a lot of his tracks. And he's been around for a long time. Do you remember Jimmy Bratcher you may be you may be too young to remember Jimmy Bradsher Bratcher atcha now you probably don't remember him. No, no, no. Well, you're going to

hear him right now. And there we go. If you want some bluesy kind of down home funky music Jimmy Bradshaw is your guy.

Unknown

I went to the doctor the other day the doc said, Boy you got to quit cut out the cheese and what's the brother supposed to do? The I went home and told my wife. She said baby you gonna take his invite? We came sick in bed. Don't relax. Don't be sad. Mom cried No. Mama Wolfram knows. That ain't gonna

be in your mouth. Brad was when? By Mosuo I get tempted and I can drive by and searches Popeyes KFC this guy goes you can go and get a piece and sweet be fried chicken marble fries boyfriend today we're gonna be your fried chicken is the best I've ever had and without it it just makes me mad so get out the skillet through some dark lead in the paint and some gravy. I'll be happy man Mom Mom mama Wolfram no chicken the a goat would be no fingers because mama

whoa Fran Oh chick No. No chicken I said Mama will crack nose Don't be finger naked. Mama Fran no to crime is darkly breathing.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

That's the kind of stuff we play out here in the hill country man

Dave JonesDave Jones

Anything that says gravy and biscuits in it? I'm down.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

I know did you did you kill your rooster?

Dave JonesDave Jones

Killing three of them tomorrow.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

For Thanksgiving.

Dave JonesDave Jones

We have a trio in the backyard that is about to drive me insane in the morning,

Adam CurryAdam Curry

but are you killing them just because you hate him or because you're hungry or is it a combo? Combo?

Dave JonesDave Jones

combo and they work out they work together perfectly.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, man. All right. Well, listen, we'll figure out what we're going to do. I mean, maybe because here in America, we have Thanksgiving. It's Thursday. And then you have your your family affair on Friday. So we'll have to see what we do.

Dave JonesDave Jones

Let me I'll get the times from from my wife, their boss about what time yeah, for the balls and what times we're doing stuff. And now we'll figure it out. I'll say well, we might be able to still pull off a show. Okay, well, maybe just a little earlier. Something.

Adam CurryAdam Curry

Oh, brother. Let me just hold on a second. Let me just check because I got my boss and she goes, Let's synchronize calendars. Never that happens. No, Friday the 24th Now I can do it anytime you want. Anytime you want a Friday. Okay. Maybe we just did a little little early. Okay. All right, brother. Have a great weekend. Happy Thanksgiving. You too, man. All right. And chat room. Thank you very much for joining us here in the boardroom for another board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 We'll

see you next week. Take care everybody.

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