Episode 155: Landing Zone

podcasting 2.0 for November 17 2023, episode 155 landing zone Hello everybody, welcome to podcasting. 2.0 This is the boardroom that wants to vaporize its corporate mothership. That's right. We're here to remove ourselves everything going on with the current state of podcasting the future of podcasting value for value. Yes, we've got all this going on with the namespace podcast index.org podcast index dot social and I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas

that's nugget with a sea

nuggets in cryptographic libraries wrapped in sea dog. I read your posts. I know I know what you're doing. Like yeah,

that that's we we are going to be we will be lucky if we make it through the show. Because why is that? Oh, now my house is freaking out.

Is it your house? Or is it just Alabama? What's going on Birmingham?

Wish I could tell so we had this issue a few months ago, about two or three months ago, we had this problem where the lights would flicker just just to be like Berber Berber. And that was your nose stop. Yeah, well, no, no, actually, it was not okay. Alabama. The so we I thought it was the house I thought. So I go you know, my first thinking is we live in So we live in a really old house and I've replaced a lot of the wiring our house was built in 1892.

Oh, the wires were that with the cloth covering around it the Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. It starts to rot away slowly over time.

We had knob and tube if you know what that is.

I think I had that when I was in college. I'm not sure if

that's also an only fans channel.

That's the line. That's the one I was looking for.

Helping you ally. Alright, so we hear you we have knob and tube which is like these porcelain. Porcelain standoffs.

Oh yeah, of course I know it. Yes, I've seen that.

And then porcelain tubes that go through the through the joists. And so you like I've gone through there. And over the last almost 10 years we've lived here, I've ended up ripping most of that out. And we've only got about only about 15% of the house left is still not been tube everything else is up to code with Romex and everything. But so I'm immediately thinking when this happened a few months ago, these little blue rubber, you know, lights flickers. I'm like,

Oh, they're their own entity of goodness. Those things are us. Yeah.

And they're all crap, you know? So they ended up not being the case. It was actually the transformer on the pole outside was bad was going bad. Yeah. Because our neighbor said the things he's like, are you awesome lights flickering? Oh, yeah. Yeah, is that the whole neighborhood? You know, essentially Oh, man. So then the power company replaced the transformer. That was like three months ago. Everything's been great. And then two days ago this thing started again. Now as

Yeah, that that you what that is that's a frequency issue. So frequency Yeah, so this is an you know, the guy that talks about this is Steven b He knows about this stuff. But the grid by itself has to stay in a pretty tight frequency range. And this is why you know wind power is not that great because or even solar power because once everything's on and the sun is shining or the wind is blowing, then there's too

the AC cycle is the 60 cycles, there's maybe dropping like

59 59.9 or something. It's a real tight range.

So that all right, that limb, limb, okay, so I think I understand what you're saying. It's not a voltage problem is amperage problem or anything like that? It's the it's the frequency with which the current alternates from positive to negative. That's

my understanding. I'm not the guy to give the real answer. But you know, the yes, that's, that's what and all the grid stuff is measured in the frequencies, not the amount of power. Hmm, yeah, I know. There's another guy. Yes, sir. Ben, the protector of megawatts. He's the guy that can tell you exactly how that works.

That sounds like a power company issue again. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Totally. To me,

but not not necessarily your transformer that could be Yeah, that can be at the plant or they're switching stuff over or don't have enough. I mean, we have that happen here in Texas. Not because our grid sucks, which we've been sigh opt into believing.

Yeah, well, everything sucks in Texas. Yeah. Well, it's

because, you know, obviously, they want to nationalize our grid. And we're quite happy with our grid, but ERCOT, which is it's, it's basically an exchange, and every five minutes, they update the prices and people have, you know, the some of that stuff has been featured out five years in advance. And that's really what happened with this snowpocalypse is no one was making any money. It's like, I'm not going to turn on this coal plant or anything, because, you know, it takes

they all they all left Enron, and

then when they went to prison, no, one or two guys died in prison or in prison, whatever. And then the other guys yeah, they all went to to ERCOT. No, it's horrible. It's horrible.

It's great gig if you can get it, I guess. Yeah,

no kidding. No kidding. But anyway, yeah,

I was looking for squirrels laying across the powerline outside or something. You know, like

you said, dripping dripping squirrel juice down on another lock world's squirrel SAP? That's what we call it. Yes. Business in the business. Oh, man. Yeah, I wanted to I wanted to mention something. Something really powerful happened in my life, something powerful has been happening for a while. You know, I've kind of turned I got a lot of not a lot. But I get a significant amount of really ugly emails from time to time, depending on the topic no agenda discusses. Could we

This is this is the deal, though. This is not that much different. The old Adam. I've been on. I've been CC on angry emails.

Oh, yeah. You remember the old Adam? Yes. And

your reply all would just be like, Why are you so angry bro?

Well, but I've replied differently to depending on the level. But I've really been very consistent. I mean, it i and i actually, if I write that email before I hit send, I pray for that person real quick. Doesn't that believe me? It's not a long drawn out thing. But it just but it's, it's well met. And what's been happening is when the I mean, I've been getting emails, they're like, Screw you, you have begged that

Spencer, possibly.

Or Libra. And I said, Yeah, I forgive them. It's okay. It's all going to be alright, and then moved on. And lo and behold, now it's on page 80. So yeah, wasn't top of mind. But in the new Bitcoin magazine, the printed edition, it appeared, I haven't seen it yet. It appears they've printed my article. And I just want to say amen, hallelujah. Because it worked. It worked. Witness preach. I had not expected that. And I'm really happy because I think it comes at a great time. Where, tell

me did is it a date, there's their digital version? Or is it print only right now?

I think it's print only. And then once it's out, and I think it takes several weeks, which is kind of good. It'll be a couple of weeks until this measles pops up. And this was mainly about a short history of I've published it on the on our on podcast index. So so you can find it probably somewhere. You know, it's a brief history of 2.0. You know, what kind of what happened and then value for value as it pertains to the Lightning Network. Of course, I had a heavy Bitcoin slant on it,

Okay. I'm gonna be honest and say that I do not have seen the talk of that going on. But I'm not up to speed on what's happening there.

Okay, so this is first avenue in Minneapolis. But this is all mostre people. So we're if it's gonna work is because we make it work, not because they care about us. I'm going to be truthful about it. Yeah, no, I

think you'd be an honest You're not bad.

No, I'm not being mean. That's fine. You mean they have their mission?

I don't care about them either. So

we're, you know, so So we're all pretty excited about the most recent pod con Mexico that rss.com put together, and did it live lit live in video which Fantasticks? Everybody could stream sets? You could boost in real time.

And did you see Alberto's article, in fact, I've linked

to it in, in our show notes. It says here, how to stream a live event in a podcast interact with the audience in real time and exchange value.

Yes, excellent honor. So

that's a great article that these guys are not following. And but there's this confusion, you know, it's like there's a lot of excitement around lightning, and value for value. Now, they are calling this a value for value event, which is valid because you can zap while you're watching, but

you can zap as long as you're not zapping from mutiny wallet to the Zeus wallet, then then you're out of luck because those guys because the mutiny wallet people blocked anybody from using their wallet to zap anybody who's using Zeus. So no, it was really I didn't know there's yes, we're seeing zap censorship emerge.

Oh, really?

I'm not kidding me. On Nike.

It's not that it's incompatible. It's been blocked.

Mutiny, my understanding is that mutiny wallet claimed that they are we're getting payment failures, or HDLC.

Timeout

timeouts. And so they just blocked Zeus.

So there's a bigger thing here. There's a bigger thing going on. I don't think it's malicious, but I think it's ignorance. And I would hate to see but you know, to have two artists that that the pod Kasen 2.0 Music podcasts of supported Ainsley and, and just loud, not be exposed to the full audience, which I believe is really providing the most, the most love and the most value, which is through our apps. So I'm, I'm

and so that you're not being an infrastructure. No, I'm

not doing that anymore. But you know, here's all the people who are enthusiastic, and they know how to do it, and they can get it set up. So I really hope that that works out. Because it would just be it would just be a shame if it didn't happen. And it's really, it's because there's confusion when people hear value for value. Oh, yeah, that would that's value for value. You know, and lightning, yes. But it's really two different things. So, again, I think that,

Now, I was going to ask what, how? So if they're gonna live stream this? I mean, not sure doesn't have a mechanism for that, does it?

I mean, I don't know if you go no, it's no, it's it's called Zap Dot stream is basically a streaming service, not unlike peer tube, I don't know if it uses peer to button or the hood. And they just pop up a button on the screen and you click on a mountain, then it opens your wallet. I mean, it's, it's just a string, you could use do this on YouTube, and put and put a thing in there. So there's no per minute streaming, there's no booster grams. It's just it's just a zap with a name.

That's, I mean, we know that based on what the Dominus developer said that 99% of people who use these who use the app didn't stop using it. There's the other audiences is limited, me, you're just gonna be limited. If you're if you're restricting your audience to noster to just a bunch of, you know, well go

go look at zapped dot stream and tell me what the max amounts are that you see on these live streams, you know, 1200 SATs, you know, just not receiving a lot. It's, you know, it's not the culture yet. And certainly not of live stream. So anyway, does break since you mentioned the J 65, the

As it was Mike Newman, who we who we lovingly refer to as the shell script. Yeah. Doing it that was doing this one, but you're like one butthole

Yeah, so what's going to happen is eventually Mike is going to get tired of it, or whatever. And then, you know, and artists are going to be disappointed.

I'm already tired of it on Mike's behalf. Me too, My

finger hurts like now.

This is, uh, so

I just want to, there's that we there's no way really we can integrate. But when it comes to certain things everybody wins. If we're a little more open and, and, and include everything. Does that make sense?

Yeah, this kind of fits into, into some things that I kind of noted, which, you know, Todd, after the last show, Todd Cochran popped into the mastodon and said, you know, hey, I don't understand why in the world activity, pub would be even a priority or a big deal. And I've been working on it, you know, off and on all week. I've made, I've made progress. A lot of it is not visible. But it's, this is one of those things where progress on this is going to be like, molasses not

Can I interrupt you for one moment? Just to read Yes. Or something I thought was very, very telling. Because there are people listening who really don't even know what Macedon is. And, and the reason yes or no, or how it really works. And and it's, I think it's worth just let me see if I could find this real quick. I got a note and the question was

That's interesting.

Well, you know, we're so it's so natural for us to know this stuff. But here's someone who's on podcast index dot social, and it's trying to understand, so how does this thing work? What is it? Is it just just you guys? And then, and I think the app actually hurts to be honest. I don't think apps make it very apparent to see the full spectrum on a website. So just bear that in mind that people don't really understand that. It is, in fact, in effect, a bit like noster.

doesn't require you to run a server either. I mean, like, blood if you want to simplify it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, if you want to just just, I mean, everything has to be served. Yeah,

it has to come from so it's not like magic. This you know, that relays are servers and that they're not just magic things that that make the noster stuff shoot around poorly.

You don't you don't write your RSS feed. You know, you don't write your your in pub on your front door and everybody sees it. It has to be served by a computer.

Well, to be fair, he's built something called noster dB. And his app is now you know, you have your app and it takes up 10 gigabytes of space because you're basically your own relay. I mean, this is yes, this is what this is what he's doing. Well,

this says Why is why is that was activity pub important? Scale? You can ask the activity pub, as in this is going to be one of the I can't I found out this week that I can there are certain there are there are I'm trying to figure out how to frame this, it is difficult to convince people of your vision like that is you have, you have specifications and you have protocols. Those are easy to talk about. And like those are easy to discuss. And you can hash them about and

You're talking to a guy who had to convince the world that an iPod was for radio shows.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, you you, you know this fight because you had to fight to convince Dave Weiner, what you were what you were fighting to convince him of let me just I want to reef I want to like reframe that whole beginning of RSS and podcasting, as the beginning of podcasting in RSS. What if you go back and you think about it, what you were trying to convince him of was not really a change to the protocol, you were trying to convince him of a vision you

Well, first of all, I had to look up the word syllogism, which I thought might be venereal disease or something. But it will make you go crazy. Deductive scheme of a formal argument consisting of a major and or minor premise, and a conclusion.

Yeah, so if I did, yeah, yeah, the basic is a you know, a, like, if if statement, a statement one is true, and statement two is true, then statement three, there you go. There you go. And but but in this particular words involved are important though, because typically the way this syllogism is, is talked about is, if statement one is sound. That's the word that's used, if it's sound, and statement two is sound, then statement three will be a logical conclusion from

whole project is its roots are based on that. And props to Stephen B for building sovereign feeds, because every vision that was discussed whether it was ours, or someone else's, came to fruition, because we could put it into the feed.

Yes. Yeah. That Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. So like, in the context of the medium, disco, we're kind of all over the place, but I don't care. In the context of the medium discussion, this is,

uh, oh, oh, this, this is, you didn't notice that Adam stayed away from this one. I'm like, oh, yeah, I

appreciate that about the, so the tags themselves must be, they must be definite. And I'm trying to use terms here. Very specifically. They have the tags that we use have to be definitive, so that apps know what to do with the content that the tag is referencing. Like, so just, I'm not going to make a big a big thing about medium and video here. But I'm just trying to exemplify something. The MIME types. Don't do that. MIME types express a format? Or playard?

Really format? I always always thought it MIME type defines what player needs to be used what? What was the, in the old Unix world it was the not the dot something dot? There's a file that determines what player will open for a MIME type.

Yeah, like, you're talking about, like a protocol scheme. Yeah. Yeah. And so the, the, the MIME type, or the file type, let's just, you know, whatever video, let's just generalize it heavily and say video audio, that just tells you what the format is, it doesn't tell you anything about the content. And so the meat, the medium tag is trying to teh is trying to express express a, an opinion about the content. And so the there there's, it's, it's a hot it's one layer up from

publish subscribe, is that fair to say have subscribed? Yeah,

publish subscribe, which is exactly what RSS is. It's a pub. RSS is Pub Sub. Activity Pub is Pub Sub. These are they they just activity pub does it with JSON over HTTP requests, RSS does it with XML over GET requests, that it's really the same thing. And so since they're so close together, we can merge we can we can merge is not the right word I want to use, we can take these two worlds, and they will fit together well. And then we can bring these these things, we can

this is exactly the same that I've heard from an artist saying, okay, I get this, but then where's my fan base? Where's my community? Yeah, same thing.

Exactly. So you have if you have a mess, or if you're a musician, and you have a fediverse account, you're on a mastodon somewhere. And you also have published your music through RSS. If we bridge these two things together, you now have a in your, you just inherited a landing zone, in a, in a social community aspect, without having to do anything else. Yeah, it just, it comes to you, instead of you having to go to it. Like all of a sudden, you have you just you got air

Well, he if I if I can give an example of of the disconnect and connect at the same time. So because we have cross app comments still enabled, I still publish doesn't really matter if it's not taken off, but I still publish that way. So before every podcast I do, by will post a post on no agenda social.com So I'm looking here no agenda episode 16 1608 woke up dead not it should actually be the the lit tag when we start go on. But it's not I do it out when I publish

Yeah, it does make sense and so like that's in that's the experience that this will end up resulting in is that you won't the podcasters get that for free. And they they will get they get an audience they have they have their followers, their subscribers and RSS. Now they can have their followers. You Who are essentially essentially also subscribing to the RSS, but through the activity pub bridge, so that they, the the episode essentially and lands in the

I like as landing zone as an example. Let's take your pod page example because I use pod page for two shows. Basically, if pod page hooked up activity pub to their back end, it would be dynamite because they got everything in there. They got all of these all these things and now they're doing a

The magic of the activity pub. outbox is underutilized because Mastodon in its stupidity does not backfill posts from the outbox.

Explain that to me, I was laughing about the stupidity comment. I'll explain

you. Yes. When Mastodon when you go to somebody's profile, if you look, if you search for them, pull them up. Follow them. Mastodon by default does not look at that actors outbox to get all of its old posts and show them to you that the the only way a server gets posts is if somebody else has already gotten them. And so the but the outbox holds, it's like an RSS feed, it holds everything. Everything that you've ever posted is in your outbox, and you can just go in and pull it. So like,

ah, forever, it's just in there or less pruned, I guess, oh, no, it's

just there. Like it's just there. Like every if you go to like podcast index dot social, slash users slash Adam slash outbox, you will see all of your everything you post is there. So you can have you can read that data and just backfill onto a page. So the, you know, like pod page or somebody, any of these apps that do this sort of thing, can if you have you, if you have your social interact in in your feed, you know, just defining your defining your activity pub user account, they

the land, Red Dragons and demons is there. This

way, there'll be you know, what, there be dragons or whatever. Like, it really is bad in the exam, then I'm tying this all back into the example into where we talked about the vision. Because when you can see plenty of example code. The example code may be in a written in a way that is completely foreign to anything that you are used to. Cryptographic libraries have this. They have the strangest ways of expressing things. I'm a declarative programmer. And I don't mean

And now I'll just guess here that activity pub spec. You know, bang equals Macedon. Like there's, it's not the same thing.

It is. I don't know if it is. I can't. I can't say one way or another. I think it mostly conforms to the spec. But I think they have their own. I think the only difference is the headers that it requires you to, to digest. So like, I

guess, I guess I mean that differently. I mean, that in the realm of like, what Mastodon does is not necessarily what you can do with activity pub, the same way someone looks at Mastodon and says, Hmm, what is this, like, this is a closed off thing. You know, there's no way for a new user to come in and know that, you know, what that what the other servers feed is? Or that you can follow someone from another server. There's just no way for someone to see that and understand

I think you're right. Yeah, I think that's a good Yeah, I think that's good. Yeah, they the Yeah, cuz Macedon has this weird thing where all the HTTP, all the HTTP requests are required to be signed. But how do you talk to one first, without knowing one of those initial signatures, that you can't verify things that you something you've never talked to before? Right? It was because you don't have the key in advance. Anyway. So there's, there's these there's always a

Your marriage is broken. Your kids have left the house,

yet power surges.

Realizing, Kaczynski, you're living in a shack.

Big old beard. Yeah, so that I'm just trying to express this idea that this is an overarching thing that we deal with in all realms of of programming, namespace respect, development, interpret, just interpersonal trying to work things out between different parties, like with with RSS, and mass, and noster. All of these things suffer from this same sort of fundamental problem, which is, you have wishes, there's a spec and a vision. And then there's your understanding,

I saw. I haven't listened to him yet. I'll just I'll just grab one and I'll just grab one BAM magic. Yes. See? Beautiful.

Thank you, Carrie. Well, let

me ask you a question. So not going to Okay, so the programming side, I barely hung on by a thread and I understand what you're saying. But of course, I get lost the vision part, making this peanut butter jelly sandwich work perfectly. Is your vision now? Because they started off with the desire for certification of the index. Does this mean that everybody can have their own part of the index all of the

There that's I think, ultimately, the vision is to is to fortify things to the point. But I guess we say four to five things and decentralized. By

definition, with edification, to me is is decentralization.

I guess I'm deep meaning it is like, decentralizing the actual ownership. So that there because what I think what we eventually want is, like different. You know, I mean, what we want is what I Potter was, where you own your part of the directory on my part?

Well, then what are we? Freedom controller? What are you gonna buy? We're back to the freedom controller.

I mean, it it really, we get I can, you know, we can envision Jane know, James owning Australia, Sam owning it, you know, Northern, you know, Western Europe. I mean, like, that's what, like, I guess what we want, and what I mean, is what I'm gonna say own, I mean, like, be actually authoritative.

Well, hold on a second, because the just so everyone understands. I potter.org was initially a world outline, you'll have to look that one up. But it was the concept of OPML, outline process process or markup language, where you can use includes. And so I potter.org, the I made up my own top level, which I did by geographic region, it could have been by interest or anything. And I said, Okay, I'm looking for someone from Australia, that actually Germany was probably

It is it that is beautiful. And of course it breaks. It breaks with scale. Same way DNS, like used to be just a big a single file of names and IP addresses. individually. It's like, okay, well, this has to become a decentralized thing where everybody owns their own chunk of DNS and serves it. That that's the same type of thing

So the way the way to bootstrap that, if I understand you, is to have people start their individual indexes, which are actually landing pages for these podcasts, landing pages and community areas. So for instance, all know, agenda stream podcast could be handled by the no agenda social.com activity pub?

Possibly, yeah, that could be one way to do it, I can see a few ways to slice it, that would be one way. And that's if this activity pub bridge is generic enough. And that's the goal is that that's how

you that's how you distributed. So have a repo Yeah, and you just pull it in from so then you build a bridge that comes in from the index into your activity pub server, Mastodon or not. And that becomes a landing pages. And

then you're, you're talking to the actual index itself, right? Until you have until you

eventually are getting your updates from the RSS feed or pod paying or somewhere else.

Yeah, because you can have you could have, for instance, you know, and right now it talks to the index, but maybe you want it to talk directly to your feed. And not and not in not include not have to go do do an HTTP. That's, that's right. Another way to do it. Because if you wanted to have like your description, if you want to download, download the repo, run it and have it just talk to the no agenda, RSS feed, then you can have an activity pub.no agenda

too. Right. So right, right, right. Which is and that's perfectly fine. Yeah,

or blueberry, or Buzzsprout can run AP, you know, activity pub that blueberry.com. And all their feet. Yeah.

Which is actually probably a great way to do it. But you can still have your own for your own feet and not have to use their system, even though they'll have it. Right. And how do you work with dupes? And in that case,

no, don't stop talking. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. duplicates.

duping guy. I mean, they come in to the to the email box. And I can see something like two days old. And when I get to it at the bottom my box like Oh, Dave didn't want to deal with that one. Okay, I got it.

It's I had a wish list of two things that I could like that somebody would come up and say, you know, hey, I'm going to do a volunteer to do X. One of them would be you can write some stuff that would look at the downloadable weekly database and try to find

a do try to D dupe it. Right.

And then another one would be write some code that will monitor our API and send me a bad signal. If something goes wonky. There's those are if anybody if anybody wants to pick either of those two projects, I would love that. Like I would love I need an early warning system like something that hits some some of the critical API endpoints like search, and in some of the other ones, like I don't every three or four

In the meantime, if you find a dupe just email it to me

in So that's the

no I don't mind it, but I, what I have a problem with is people saying, Hi, I'm John. There's three versions of my podcast in the index, can you please remove the older two ones? And thanks, you know, you got no URLs you know, is I can usually discern if I think someone is the real deal of

But yeah, like I have a feed that it's missing some of the episodes in it's called Daily News. Like Oh dude, do you like 100 of those in the index? Come on,

allow me to just read quick two quick booster grams because I think it's, it's not the same but it may be and I just so we're all on the same page. We don't get ahead of each of ourselves. Assam Sethi boosting Hello Sam in in the UK, cold cold UK. Can't believe you guys brought Cameron back. So 10,000 SATs from Sam Sethi pod fans was of course pod fans was built from day one. To support activity streams. We use actor verb object as the structure we have 30 plus verbs. And we can

I think it's I think it's a layer on top. I think it's like fade, I think not fade but like like, that sounds like layer two, like I'm I'm T I'm talking about like layer like a layer one. Sort of a more fundamental. And then then that sort of adding once you have that, that's that's in his app. And then once you have this, then those you can always

come alive, right? It's a little bit the cart before the horse in this net.

Well, now it's didn't then once we if we did that, then we then we can talk to pod fans better, like everything starts to jive, you know,

right.

Okay, that's if they understand what he's saying correctly.

Well, Sam's building his own little Emporium. He's building his own podcast index over there. He's importing feeds and validating them.

He's compete. He's competing with Steven V for the most the most apps. What? He's having a real hard time with valid with feed validation. Yes. And what us? You know, my first thought is, welcome to The Club, man. They're really

we've been doing this for FinTech for 10 years. 12 years, Dave, we've been doing validation.

It is a complete nightmare. It's the amount of times

that I that I would that I would be using the freedom controller, certainly in the early days, early years, and I say Hey, Dave, I subscribe to this feed. But you know, look at how it shows up or it didn't show up. Or why is it doing this? I mean, you built a set of rules that is astronomical.

I have seen God I think I've seen every verb. What do you think podcast feeds are bad. Go check out blogs. Yeah. Oh my gosh, they are a nightmare. You will see. I've seen an RSS feeds with 25,000 items in them. And they only have a validate. Validate. There's no pub date. There's no Gu ID. There's nothing except a title tag. And the title tag is the exact same on every one.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just more fun. Oh, those are the worst. Yeah, that's the worst. Like, Hey, can you for this particular feed? Can you take this tag and put that in the title tag to make it work? I remember. I remember all that. Sure. Like, I can't discern anything from this thing. Yeah,

the broader RSS ecosystem is it makes the podcasting RSS ecosystem look tame. It does.

The does. Well, I'm excited. I mean, I know it's a slow build. And it's, it's infrastructure level. You know, I'm kind of like Sam, I guess I'm like, okay, so what did we do on the top here? I'm already at landing pages communities. Oh, wow. But we got a lot of stuff to do under the hood first, and then it seems like the first thing is figuring out this cryptographic handshaking stuff, which is a is a complex.

I'm close. I'm close on that. I've, uh, found a found a few libraries that I can work with. And then I found you last night that I want to, I think I found the last piece of the puzzle that one of the Another problem with cryptic cryptographic stuff is they return crazy types. So instead of, they don't work like humans expect. So, for instance, we're storing in the database, we're storing a public key and a private key. And the, we're storing for simplicity to avoid

Oh, okay. This is this is moving quickly. That's nice. One

delay of this and is that, Nick? I'm long overdue to get back to the namespace. Because there's a lot of there's stuff happening there that that needs. chaperoning,

you want to talk about that for a second I want to talk about I can't

I don't even know what's going on over there.

All I know is that James Cridland still wants podcasts images gone is no good. Get rid of it.

Yeah, it's what I didn't even know what tag you wanted. Did. Wasn't

that a drop in for iTunes? Wasn't that the whole point of? No.

Oh, no. So there's stuff happening over there that I need to go to get into enough of dedicated next week to Thanksgiving week is namespace week. I'm going to live in the namespace. Oh, get up to speed on what's happening. There

I go. So we'll have some hot namespace talk next week in the boardroom. I'll alert the dancing girls.

With Friday I have a family thing so I don't think I can do the show Friday at normal time now. Okay. Well, we have family thanksgiving and Fred.

Well, who says you're allowed to have that?

The lady that owns the house?

It's called a Friendsgiving. Dave but keep up with the kids will Yeah, it's Friendsgiving it's not Thanksgiving. We can't thank anybody. It's just friends giving.

I think I think that's the case. Without that we'll check. Well, we didn't figure that out on signal.

Wow, okay. Well, that's a lot. That's a lot. You've been you've been deep in that brother real deep.

was yeah, I need air. See, was

there anything else that that popped to the top of the stack I'm trying to think of, of any things that we needed to discuss I mean, right now I'm I'm still just riding high on the music podcasting. I am so loving it. I'm seeing guys come in this guy Cody from Kerrville he got Adobe Das has been just a gem. You know, of course, he's is a pretty small with RSS. blue.com. But, you know, I sent this guy radio guy said, All right, now you got RSS blue.com You'll figure it out. I I can't

Is when you're when you're small, like Devadasi you're shifty. Yes, you're agile. Then you can do whatever you want. Pod

home.fm is another one.

Barry pushed a put Barry and a couple other people had some stuff. They had some PRs on the main website that I pushed to production today, so that should be caught

up, though in the podcast app on the Apps page. Cool. Cool. Yep. Yep. Yep. So

that think that should be all good. Yeah, I think I think the there's nothing I think of anything else pressing time for

nice. Oh my god. There we go. Um, time for Nisa that always helps a little bit helps a little bit.

Did you listen to that on the media thing? So the without, I guess

you mean, the one where they erase two years of podcast history. Yeah, that nothing happened between this and then I met apple that but what was really interesting to me is it really solidified what had happened. I mean, we're in. We're in a podcast winter. And I've been through a podcast winter before. And it was really right after podcasting exploded with it. It was an iTunes and what happened there is Twitter, and Twitter. Because podcasting, what was happening in 2007 2678.

video game company. Yes. Yeah.

So that and the CEO is honest. She says, you know, the way we the way we run our companies, every the first dollar of every dollar you make goes into the newsroom, which Okay, yeah, money is pretty fungible. But I'll take your

word. I'll tell you the first one, the first note, so

it's just $1? No, but I'll take our word for it. So once again, it's other things funding the news business, which, which is just fine. But the what is, and so the question was, I should have clipped it actually, because it was very subtle, like, so what are you going to do with podcast? Well, we'll continue to innovate with audio. Okay, that's code for nothing. So that the daily is a top podcast. And she was very clear, she says, the advertising market for podcasts collapsed.

the the I got a clip, I grabbed a clip from there's a couple of things in that show that that I thought were interesting. One was the I mean, we kind of we already knew this, really. But it was, I don't know, the way they put it was pretty stark. I mean, basically, in 2018, the podcast industry was already collapsing. correctly. gimlet was starting to they'd never made

money, you never made money. It was a Hail Mary leading bleeding

to death. And they were about to go under. And they got the Spotify, Hail Mary. Like they just caught lightning in a bottle. People made money. I mean, it was like, it was almost like, you know, 2019 people. A lot of people don't realize that 2019 was a recession. We were in an economic recession in 2019. Then COVID happened. Screwed out or you coincidence. We printed trillions of dollars. Yeah. And then had this boom. And now what we're doing is we're reverting after the party's over reverting

Yeah, yeah. Well, how much storage can add space? How much? How much podcasts Do you want to buy?

You can buy when, when these, when the ad space is unlimited, there's no floor to the CPM. There's no floor to the rate, it can just go.

It's a race to the bottom. And, again, lack of trust in the metrics, which is in the marketplace, and I'll take some credit for that. Lack of trust for the metrics, always ruin stuff. Because there is no trust in the metrics. There just isn't, you know, the attribution part is complicated. And even Spotify who know stuff, they know, again, money's fungible. So you're looking at AI hearts like, oh, yeah, podcasting is

But this night Nazis wipe their butts.

But the problem is, it's no it's not about that. We just saw this. This week with Elon Musk, where it's maybe IBM didn't wake up and go, Oh, the horrors. Oh, my. There's an ad for IBM near to a post about you know, someone who hates Jews. No, that's not what happened. Media Matters, trolls, Twitter all day long, looking for looking for, you know, some mess up exactly like this. And then they immediately start posting

And when has been then what it's been yes and what is the VP

of Marketing and now a second to executive has been, has been has left to pursue other interests outside the company. So now it's people themselves, no one's going to take that risk. It's we blew it all up. And I really truly think that algos and ad insertions and programmatic ads. That was the find that was the final. That was the death knell that was the that was the final cut. That just ruined it. I don't think they can come back from it. And why should it really

well, that there's nothing else to do though? I mean, like, there's no there's nothing that it's built. Yeah, it's built now. And so now the race to the bottom begins. Yeah, well, it's

well underway.

It's well, I'm here. There's no There's no more innovation. That's good. So now it's just this is all we're just gonna roll downhill.

Yeah, it's become banner ads.

We're, we have a problem here because I did not, uh, fired off the the boosts to the boost to email, and I didn't get any of the email. This was

interesting. You say this, because I didn't even get our regular morning emails either. Now that think about it. I

didn't either. I think there's an email issue. Clearly there is that I'm gonna have to check Mailgun and make sure, I think so. I can't read boosts because Well,

luckily, luckily, what I can do, if you'll indulge me, I was indulge, I can do a quick export of my helipad. And we can get pretty close. Okay, all right. Hold on a second. Let me do this. I love heli pad. I can't wait to reply to people in heli pad. That will be the next best thing ever.

They do the Lord's work.

I know he is I know he is. There's something else I wanted and how LeapPad I can't remember what it was. But it's it's so good. Okay, let's see, um, books. So the way you do this if you're using helipad on your podcast, because this did come up on podcasts index dot social the other day the you and I learned this from Dave because I'm by no means am I an Excel guy. So you want to open Excel first. Then you click a blank workbook. It's all these great names so you hit data. And then

on, it's a data source. Just doing

like an ODBC connection or something in my file system

or whatever very large it is many boosts

well it contains all my boosts so I have to know that's big I now have to select podcasting 2.0 I

think there are parameters where you can filter that yeah,

no, of course I can't and then I need to check to make sure that the app so I want to remove IPF podcasting. Okay, boom. All right. Here we have the table. Yes. From the pivot table. And now I go back to

what do you love? This is like a webinar on how to use Excel

if I flipped on the camera Format Cells, okay, so so I can see the message, boom, tax Wrap Text. I've done this so many times. Okay, now I scroll down. And all I need to look for is comics for Blogger and I found him because he is a delimiter and here we go.

Oh, there's magic. Bam. Yes,

it's super magic. Okay. We have to we do e podcasts are 10,000 SATs because we are on day 10 of national podcast post month. Okay, we did that. We did that. And then we had here's chyron that was also okay. The 11th I think almost second was when was the last show the 10th right so the 11th Here we go. Now was Pyron the bird was around

the flow is all messed up because I usually we're so used to doing this in a batter it

is it is okay. Sir Sean riser, Kevin Bay. Okay. All right. I think this is good. I think I think we're on a path if 50,000 SATs I'm listening. This is from Kevin Bay. I'm listening to the person Good talk. I'm wondering what would stop someone from using someone else's good say I put Adams good as a person in my podcast, but he has nothing to do With my show, wouldn't I be able to hijack his persona to drive people to my podcast? He wouldn't be able to stop me.

You can also create fake websites that do things. Yes, true. So of course

that's possible. 3333 from Sir truck driver. No notes. We thank you for that though. We have 1111 from Joel who no note chyron with a row of ducks, a beautiful rendition of criss crossed there at the end. We were singing sailing, yes. Aside from their cowboy music, also known for their 1992 Smash Hit jump, Adam is definitely the daddy Mac. So that would make

Yes, it is. It's, I mean, it's centralized in the sense that it exists one but I mean, you can fork it a million times into whatever. But

the whole idea the whole idea is to decentralize this at the same time that we do this activity pub RSS mindmeld

Yeah. lots of moving parts, like slowly falling together. Yes.

We got Mike Dell 10,000 SATs My head hurts, but I think I understand mine to Mike gene Bing again with elite boost 1337 can't help but wonder how we convince all traditional podcast hosts to embrace activitypub Hopefully that will be easier than I think it will be. Well, I don't know. I mean, we convinced a lot of hosts to add the namespace.

There's a lot of there's a lot of people in activity insurance I mean, there really is and

then gene being again with elite boost another piece of prior art you should look at is funk whale dot audio. Dot audio. They do music and activity pub plus RSS.

Oh, I think you have heard

of it. Funky so they do activity? Well, let's take a look at that. That's interesting. They are anti Bitcoin. Okay, so they don't want to adopt the namespace. Wow, they do not want us now. But the underlying tech seems very relevant to this episode. Jay Moon 3333 with the boost just listen and 1776 Freedom boost. Thank you for all you do shout out the fountain. Love the music stuff going on there. I'm actually loving having my podcasts and music in the same

he'll go read then go right. Yeah, please.

Looks like comic strip blogger. Even though he's the delimiter he's not the dilemma because I'm going to do the live boosts after this. Adam and Dave, and this is 32,015. I'd like to extend an invitation to your audience. So listen to the just to good old boys podcast. You can find it at www dot just two good old boys.com. The show is hosted by two Texans. A dude named Ben and Jean, who is an in person friend of Adam. In person, friend. What does that even mean? Yes, he's

Sergej and the Sheriff of Sheriff Texas is telling

record 4444 Getting a pre show. Thank you boostin here before heading out of town again for a gig in Wisconsin this weekend. Looking forward to spreading the V for V model capabilities and information to any other musicians there during dinner Saturday night. The signal Keep spreading us right? We all have to do nice satchel of Richard's 11,111 from blueberry for three to count it down that's how many songs we've gotten to upload with Thunder Road dot media to the index if

That seems reasonable. I

love this. This this is the economy I'm talking about. No. And then people say yeah, no one uses Bitcoin. Oh goodness. See, this, we have an ecosystem of proof dripping with proof. Chat F 3333. We just need to put STR on the end of everything we built. Oh, now introducing ln gangster Okay. Podcasts says I'm just gonna be Adam curry stir, and I'll just

Thank you, brother.

Beautiful. What a beautiful hack.

Interrupt. Interrupt.

Yes, it's one way but we're interrupting where the good guy hack I call it interim. Yeah, we're the good guys. were the good guys. There's those 210 1000 SATs from Sam Sam Sam Sethi we read earlier. Thank you, Sam. Appreciate it. Go check them out at pod fans.fm 15,500 from see Brooklyn 112 Thank you for all your work and the vocabulary lesson. Yes, I learned all kinds of things like cyclomatic complexity.

Go podcast now. Where's

he going to be? Let's OYSTEIN bariga OYSTEIN I love that the Oh with a slash through it comes through on my spreadsheet.

It's not always easy Dutch, right. He's Dutch.

I think no, I think he's Norwegian. Scandinavian country I believe. Yeah, that's

that's not a Dutch name. And

he does the mutton Mead music podcast one a one a one. Okay. And he just says educate me. Daddy. Educated. Assaults crayon back with a short row of ducks. 2222 Did I hear hot namespace is Dave breaking out the red light next week for a late board meeting? Bow. Bow. Wow. Yeah, you better believe it and Dred Scott, we'll figure it out. Dred Scott winds up the whole list here with 45678 Dred Scott, thank you so much, brother. He says just boosting for the boost boosts

I feel neutered just was sitting back watching you do do that in my job. I'm like,

can you do the paper towels? You can do the paper towels. I can do paper towels. Yeah, once Yeah.

We got we got a new subscriber $5.50 a month from Michael Hall. Thank you, Michael. Yeah, Michael says beginning monthly support. Thank you for your service.

Thank you, Michael.

We work hard. And then we got some monthlies. We got Terry Keller $5 Chris cow and $5 Paul Saltzman $22.22 Derek J. Vickery. Great name. I love it every time $21 you're on you're on Rosenstein $1, Damon Castle, Jack $15 and Jeremy gerdts $5.

Thank you all very much. This is a value for value proposition. If you don't know what that means. Forbes magazine will explain it to you soon, or go to value for value dot info. That's a pretty good overview of of how it works in the history of it. But really, the idea is, if you like the project, if you like this podcast, if you want it all to continue, then you can send value back to us in three ways time, talent or treasure.

Please do that.

But we'd love for you to go to new podcast apps.com or podcast apps.com. Grab a modern podcast app, you're going to need it eventually. And remember one of the big features besides the fact you can boost us and send us a booster gram and have it read in the in the thank you segment is that you also get updated. The app updates within like 90 seconds of us publishing. People forget that and I still have so many people say why haven't you uploaded to

Yeah, we're like a pack. Yeah, like a podcast app that actually cares about efficiency.

Before we go, you want to play song.

Oh, love the song. Yeah, song. That would be fantastic. I didn't know you're gonna do that. Yeah,

well, I just had one just in case and this is from one of those guys. This guy actually, when we did the podsafe music networks, and now we're talking back 2007 I think he uploaded a lot of his tracks. And he's been around for a long time. Do you remember Jimmy Bratcher you may be you may be too young to remember Jimmy Bradsher Bratcher atcha now you probably don't remember him. No, no, no. Well, you're going to

I went to the doctor the other day the doc said, Boy you got to quit cut out the cheese and what's the brother supposed to do? The I went home and told my wife. She said baby you gonna take his invite? We came sick in bed. Don't relax. Don't be sad. Mom cried No. Mama Wolfram knows. That ain't gonna

That's the kind of stuff we play out here in the hill country man

Anything that says gravy and biscuits in it? I'm down.

I know did you did you kill your rooster?

Killing three of them tomorrow.

For Thanksgiving.

We have a trio in the backyard that is about to drive me insane in the morning,

but are you killing them just because you hate him or because you're hungry or is it a combo? Combo?

combo and they work out they work together perfectly.

Oh, man. All right. Well, listen, we'll figure out what we're going to do. I mean, maybe because here in America, we have Thanksgiving. It's Thursday. And then you have your your family affair on Friday. So we'll have to see what we do.

Let me I'll get the times from from my wife, their boss about what time yeah, for the balls and what times we're doing stuff. And now we'll figure it out. I'll say well, we might be able to still pull off a show. Okay, well, maybe just a little earlier. Something.

Oh, brother. Let me just hold on a second. Let me just check because I got my boss and she goes, Let's synchronize calendars. Never that happens. No, Friday the 24th Now I can do it anytime you want. Anytime you want a Friday. Okay. Maybe we just did a little little early. Okay. All right, brother. Have a great weekend. Happy Thanksgiving. You too, man. All right. And chat room. Thank you very much for joining us here in the boardroom for another board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 We'll

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org. For more information, go podcast. Yeah, it's pretty cool.