Episode 150: Eshitification

podcasting 2.0 for October 13 2023, episode 150 and Unification everybody Welcome once again to podcasting 2.0 This is where it all goes down. It is the official board meeting of podcasting 2.0 the future the president than now we're

Spencer said The wait is

over. Hello, hello. Hello, hello. Hey, Dave, how you doing, brother? How you doing?

I'm good. I'm reading the mute button little bit as partaking my beef milkshake.

Oh, oh, are you? You have a quick quick turnaround today. You still have a lot of work at the day job, I guess. Right?

Yeah, yeah. But I'm good. I'm good. Okay, I'm hanging in there. I will be a much happier person next week, though.

So Well, I actually I'm a happier person now because I did my taxes. Wednesday. I'm a late file I pay in April, but I file I'm a late filer.

I like how you like how you just classify yourself as that I'm a I'm a late filing late filer. Just a heads up? Yeah. Everybody at accounting firms hate you.

But that's why I don't use an accounting firm. I guess I do it myself.

Okay. You just hate yourself? No.

Well, I don't know. And I have to say, Well, the problem is I have to wait on other stuff. I have to wait on other people. And you know, because other K ones that come in from my wife and just all kinds of stuff. So they never no one ever gets it on time. Which is why I understand why accounting firms hate people who do that. But I'm a TurboTax guy. I love it. I love sitting there and it gives that little counter. It says you owe $5 million. Okay, hold on a second.

My favorite part of TurboTax is the thing at the very end. That's like the audit protection scam. Oh, yeah. No, I'm

all in on the audit protections.

It's like, do you be Be careful, you be careful, you may get audited. So you probably want to buy our audit protection service. Well, like,

let me break. Let me tell you. I have always purchased the I think they might it was $40. Now it's $60 audit protection scam. And the end of one year I got audited, which was nine years ago. Um, do believe me? I was very happy ahead. So what did they do for you? They give you a lawyer.

I had to give you one. Yeah.

So I had a full time lawyer. I could call them all the time he he came out actually to meet with me and the and the and the IRS agent. Oh, yeah.

I thought you're just saying he came out a little odd relationship with a tax lawyer?

I it's not, you know, it's I mean, I understand the scary meter that says, Oh, you have a very high chance of getting audited? Well, I have that regardless, because I am self employed. I have k ones. I have a seat schedule. See?

Oh, you're just begging for it. On paper, you're just they have a target with your face on it. And the IRS. All

right, well, every 10 years is when it's my turn. And it was a that was 2015. And it really, really sucks. But I mean, I'm just happy. I didn't have to pay in it. I've had 20 years ago, when the IRS showed up in my business with their guns, literally with guns. We've been looking for you.

We depend a lot of a lot of people don't know that. If you're an American citizen. Yes, leave the country for some amount of time, let's say yours. You can't you don't just stop paying taxes. You're supposed to keep writing a check what No, you don't they will find

you have to file you don't have to you don't have to write a check. You have to file file. Yes. And my. And my accountants had not filed even though they knew exactly what they should have been doing. And this is when I had a lot of money back in the day. And so then I come in after you know, after not living in in the States for like 10 years and they Hey, and I start showing up on payroll. Man, they put me through the wringer. And that cost me $40,000 In lawyers fees.

the court appointed lawyer that you get when you're trying to you know,

step above that a little step above it, but yeah, whatever. I have

many accountants in my life, it's somehow my family and my day job and everything is just dominated by accountants and accounting. And I will I will say that I predict that you will not be in the next decade, you will not be audited again. Oh, really? I just think they're they are they the IRS is so hard up for people to work. I don't I think all of the all of the audits are going to be all the in person audits and everything. They're all going to be just, they're just going to be a

they have literally said they're going after LLCs partnerships.

That that is going to be Yeah, I think there's it's all going to be automated. Where where you're gonna have if an LLC is a member of another LLC, be a trigger.

I see. Yeah. And that should be a trigger, quite honestly.

Yeah. Because you're gonna have things like they're going after stuff like the environmental easement, scams and

yeah, in the end the paycheck protection program. Yeah, if

you have an LLC that has more than more than 100 members, yeah, just stuff like that. Yeah. Yep.

Um, I had I had some I had some Oh, wow. Moments this past week. Some some big some big Oh, wow. Moments. Well, good about Yeah, exactly. That I went Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. And it had it started on Tuesday by I was 2000 miles over due for my 10,000 mile car thing. The first big service

Adam curry,

which I financed actually, I find the answer right into into my into my loan. But the car was very mad at me. Yeah, it was like, shall we call for an appointment? I can call for you right now. lights flashing on and off, you know, dashboard lit up like 181 Yeah, all these TV. Oh, yeah. All kinds of warnings. Oh, man. You probably your car's gonna spin out of control. You're gonna die if you don't get this thing in. Oh, yeah. So that means I had to go to Austin. And I also be I

my car my truck drives itself if you're going downhill your

work. Yeah. Your cars the only your truck will be the only thing left on the road after the Armageddon everything else will just stop and that's actually hard part of the part of my big oh wow moment.

And I was roaches, Velveeta cheese and muttrah those are the three things that will exist after the fact guarantee and people

your truck will actually drive on Velveeta cheese when it

is convertible. Yeah. Is

it diesel? No. Oh, man, that's too bad. Because you could melt cheese and it would and it would drive on that

but it could it can't we can go with gas in a pinch. You know?

gasifiers baby. They're the future

from trailer trailer mounted would would be it's called the gasifier?

Yeah. They use it in the during the Depression.

It did which to the great embarrassment of my wife, but it will work?

No, because she'll be on the back shoveling wood into the gasifier as you're driving along. She'll have a job. Baby, you

remind me to tell you my misogyny story one day. Okay. This is not for the show, not for the board meeting. Oh, no, it's for the boy. So you can be for the board meeting. But I don't want to interrupt your flow though. Okay,

well, so, and I get this message. Mio. And I'm like, this thing that I saw the Smosh probably listen to that. And it was an interview with Yanis Varoufakis. And Yanis Varoufakis is actually a guy I kind of never liked. He was for a brief time about five or six months he was the the finance minister for Greece. And he not a job anybody wants. Well, this was in 2010 I think when the banks essentially bankrupted Greece. And then all

I love the love the, the degrees and the specificity by which Marxist proclaim their Marxism. It's, oh, there's always caveats is I'm a Marxist, but I'm not. I'm not that kind of Marxist. I'm a, you know, I'm a fourpoint. Marxist or whatever, you know,

he was actually like, I love Hegel. But, you know, I'm a Marxist. And it's like, anyway, so, but, you know, he's done a lot of he's written books. And he's, I always felt he's kind of an elitist, douche. But he's written a new book called techno feudalism. And, yeah, you know, you're having the same response to vor icad. I couldn't get him to think about it either. Well,

it's just the just the name is just so mean. You already it's like you can already imagine

what do you when you when you hear the techno feudalism? What what do you think the book is about?

Ai? No, no. Okay. All right. Well, I'm wrong. I'm willing to get you you said that he was an elitist douche, and I'm making notes as you have. I have an elitist douche checklist. Oh, yeah. And I'm making notes. I'm like, Finance Minister of Greece.

Yes. Motorcycle deck, bald head check. Yeah,

really low voice like Klaus Schwab. I mean, we're hitting all cylinders right here. So go ahead.

So I'm going to play a little bit from one of Listen, anyway, it was great. I was at the at the DIA to wait three hours. So they have a cappuccino bar. So I sit at my laptop, I'm doing all my email and listen to these things. And, and this is just one example of what he says is techno feudalism. And it kind of hit home for me about the stuff we're doing here at

Yeah, it's established. It's an it's entrenched,

it's completely entrenched. It's an it's completely I mean, even if you look now. And so this is for a number of things, it's for unfettered distribution, let's just you can call it free speech, if you want but how about unfettered distribution, I don't even believe in censorship resistant as a as a term. I mean, this is one to one, one to

What is that by the way? Can you just

Yes, so did the Digital Services Act is let me just bring it up here. The Digital Services Act is the regulation in Europe that I'm gonna bring it up where I have this man here, so

this is great. I just saw Just search for Digital Services Act, get the first link in the in the in the Google result. And it takes me to the Digital Services Act package page. And it has a promo video on here. And in the promo video the thumbnail says, protecting fundamental rights and freedom of expression. This is such a classic government like reversal, we're restricting your rights and freedom of expression by to protecting your rights and freedoms

to protect your freedom. Yes, exactly. Protect your freedom. So the Digital Services Act is this set of regulations. It boils down to this hate speech is not allowed. Violence is not allowed. riling somebody up for violence is not allowed. Disinformation is not allowed. And they're now going after all the platforms. The top ones are tick tock Pinterest, Amazon, Facebook, Google, then ex.

Pinterest is the one that Pinterest uses me porn

porn. Pinterest is mainly porn. And so they really Oh yeah, they have these categories violence, intellectual property infringement, pornography or sexualized content as a difference. If so, you know, what is pornography? I don't know. But when I see it all No. Yeah. Okay. And, and so they are going after the platforms, requiring the platforms to delete video and I can go into all the keywords and categories, I can go in here for a second. I

Let me say only Okay, so you get supposedly Facebook has banned, let's just say a billion users. Unless

I'll tell you that tick tock is at the top of the list, actually, with takedowns. Interestingly enough,

tick tock, yeah, well, that may, you know, that kind of makes some sense. How many users did tick tock dab? Do we know how many monthly and as there's no

idea that mean, but just what do you think would be a reasonable number to be to be flagging or taking down per hour? In the EU?

Just see is only is only the EU? I would I would it would probably have to be like 10,000 10,000

per hour? Currently 147,202 takedowns per hour?

That doesn't even seem possible. Like what could this possibly be?

At all those things I just mentioned, basically, stuff the government doesn't like. So usually, you said that your yourself best when you have a big red button. It's hard not to press it.

Yeah. When you bid when you build a thing, like when I think we we did the statics we did this thought experiment when when Gigi was on the show, and I was trying to make a point. You know, the thought experiment goes like this, you know, you build a system. They give let's let's say the government builds a system where every home in the country has a lock on as a lock on the door. And this lock is remotely controllable by a big red button in a government

I have the here's the full list of things that are being taken down for the following reasons. This is over the last 90 days. Okay, some of them are repeats of what I just said. Animal hard adult sexual material age specific restrictions concerning minors age specific restrictions.

Oh, yeah. before the show starts. Yeah.

So I mean, this is all fine. But there's no way for anyone to regulate this in the RSS based system, that doesn't mean that we need to be a free for all for everything. But this is never going to they want they the collective de governments. And in the US, we still have this constitution, very annoying, annoying, First Amendment, very annoying thing.

I'm trying to find out so have a have a question here. Same as a reason issued fall primarily in these categories. Okay, that was interesting as I'm looking at what you're what you showing me about the DSA under most active platforms, yeah. Tik Tok, Pinterest, Amazon, Facebook, Google, Google Maps, most use categories. The number one is scope of platform service. So scope of platform service. Am I

Yeah, I think so. Which I'm sure will be all kinds of, you know, subcategories of impersonating intimidating etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. They might just not they just report that under this other category.

Yes. Okay. So this says statements of reason issued fall issued fall primarily in these three kind of in these categories, scope of platform service, three main statements covering age specific restrictions, good services not permitted to be offered on the platform, nudity, etc. Okay, so that yes, so this scope of platform service category, of which there were yesterday alone, there were 2,047,247 record lists for takedown, based on based on scope of platform service only. Yeah.

And the platforms are doing that because they're being threatened by governments, hey, you better take that down or abuse me. We know this because this court this is right now went from the Fifth Circuit to the Supreme Court is back,

Well, the way and the way they did it, and this came out, you know, Twitter, follow the Twitter file. Yeah, the Twitter files. If it's, you know, a lot of Twitter files were boring. But if there's one takeaway from in one thing that I think one great service that I think it did was it showed how this it showed what the method was. And the method is exactly this is you report a something to the platform. And what you say is, we think that these posts or these users are

probably, yeah. So this is a long way of saying podcasting as a distribution mechanism. You know, we all know what we think a podcast is, but the actual method of distribution. It's a misnomer. And that's too bad. But we're just stuck with it. But you the only way forward for humanity

I was listening to show prep on the way in, you know, yeah, me too. But and his weekly review. And I think James had a very good way of putting this statement was in discussing YouTube. He's he said, the way that they the way that YouTube works is, if you make enough money, they'll let you keep some of it. I thought that was a great way to describe it. He's exactly right. So if you make enough money, they'll make it they'll let you keep a little bit of

Well, I'm glad you I'm glad you heard that that episode, because there was a lot of to do about this app that is using free content and charging $49 for it to put you to sleep at night. And I'm like, I didn't hear that part I didn't hear you might have it was on it was a pod news story earlier in the week, some I forget what it's called. But you know, the taking content that is out there for free, and charging people $49 For an app I'm like, so that's what Google does. That's what

They throw ads in it.

I get ads all the time and podcasts that that are on, like Joe Rogan, I pay for a subscription, I still get ads. But But the bottom line is what we're doing here is not it's never going to be for big money. And there might be some exceptions. But in general, it's going to value for value proposition keeps everybody keeps the engine running. And I October 26, it'll be our 16th anniversary of no agenda. We are not rich by any stretch of the imagination. We and it took us

always, it always is that it's just if you don't think it will, it's just it's just an ignorance of history. Like, like, like, like, like I said, when you build when you build it, it's there. And it compels it's compels its own use. You don't build something just for the other guy. It when you build it, it's it's going to be used again. Is everybody because because it's it's, it's more than human nature. It's a law of the of reality that when you have a thing in front of

That's your big red button theory. Yes, yeah,

you can't help it. And so if you create a math a, a master, I mean, I'm just gonna call it what is its censorship. And when you create a master censorship list, you're gonna earn a censorship regime. That thing is going to be used for everybody. And

stop right there. Okay, exactly what happened with Mastodon, the fediverse. Great idea. borderless lockless. I am on every block list by default me. It's nice not just no agenda. No, no, it's me. Oh, curries involved that block podcast index dot social is on block list because Adam curry is involved with this. He's from no agenda block.

Well, we're, we're on if you federate, there's no, there's there's no second tier list where if you federate with somebody on the block list, you're on the block list?

Yeah, exactly.

That's the way this stuff works. So, you know, one thing that bothers me a little bit about, about this whole thing is I'm wondering, you know, I want to part of me thought that we were sort of finished with this endeavor of, we talked a little bit about it last week, where we thought we were finished with the whole, let's make a full directory that doesn't have you know, that the only thing this take that gets

maybe could be

okay. And I think maybe one of the founders is there. I'm not real sure. Anyway, neither here nor there. But they will go after substack. Because substack has way too much on like Seymour Hersh, people like that these people have, they have got to be dealt with. They're too dangerous to let them out there and saying the things that they're saying. So and so that bothers me a little bit, because I'm like, Well, we're based

in San Francisco. San Francisco. Okay.

Part of me is thinking. We I think I think I described it last week as we need to focus on decentralization.

Well, okay, so, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm gonna go ahead, go ahead.

It kind of came back up during the week this week, because we're trying to solve the issue of podcasts getting sort of de prioritized in the index. for financial reasons, we cannot pull 5 million feeds every 15 minutes. It's just not, it's not going to happen. So one of the biggest things that I've

aggravator,

right, yeah, your own polling agent, and grab a copy of all the feeds that have not been pulled in a certain period of time, like, the feeds that seem to have been de prioritized. And then you can, you can aggregate some of them, you can be compulsive of them. If you find a new, if you find a new episode, you can then ping us, let us know that the so then we'll reindex it, and bring it back, you know, sort of resurrected from the from its hypersleep. And this is great.

Well, the categories are well known. They're right there, but I would say, probably 10% of the index and violation today, right now, hands down, including no agenda.

Oh, you own the EU terms? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same with the UK

terms. I'm not sure eventually with the Canadian terms. Yeah. So I'm, so you and I are thinking exactly like, and I know. That's a that's a huge undertaking. It is. And I think that's something we need to work on long term, but I'm seeing others. So I don't like saying this. But I know I can. I know that they're gonna go after hosting companies. I know, they're gonna start saying, Okay, we're sick and tired of this. This is showing up. They're gonna go to Apple for

No, they don't. They don't have a choice. I mean, they don't they're, they're victims of this. Yes,

yes. But I want to be out in front of it. And so really, it's we need to just going to come down to produce things like IPFS things like Tor. We have to start baking that in now. All

right about PW A's Yeah, the PW A's. I think, as I'm just gonna lay my cards on the table I've always been. I've always been skeptical of PW A's. Because I've always felt like the platforms, the mobile platforms, iOS and Android would kneecap them.

They still, they still mind.

They might, they might, but I'm, I'm thinking, but I'm thinking this is probably right. I mean, you know, the PW A's is the way, it's the way you get around. All of this really is fun. I mean, because it's funny because the web, the web is where we started in the web is what we're going back to.

It's all it's all that is for the people, because the only thing and it'll take a while because there's just like there's no not enough, not enough IRS agents to do audits everywhere. There's just not going to be enough EU police to go after everything they're gonna go out. It's easy for them. It's like, hey, look, we can do this. We can, you know, it's easier and more fun to go after Apple or Instagram, or YouTube or Tik Tok? Because we can also find them. We get lots

Yes, right. Yeah.

I mean, again, no disrespect anywhere. But yeah. And, and by the grace of God, we have lightning, the Lightning Network, that we have a value for value system that enables us to spread value. It's not a lot now. But what are we even doing this really three years seriously. I mean, the whole Lightning Network is only a couple of years old. This is built, and all the naysayers and all the detractors and all the anti crypto people. And I mean, it's it just slowly keeps

By a by a factor of of something by a huge factor. Yeah, for sure. And I

mean, I really just want to go back to wow, I wish I could find a couple of blogs that are updating and I can, you know, I got I got feed readers, none of them really function the way they except for the freedom controller. None that really function the way that's that's handy, you know, and there's another thing we need to do. And it's this all exists. If that's, you know, we're going to have to move to the content being

There's no need for LLM or anything like that. It's all right there. Yes, me

and why wouldn't I have my own algo that does my own shuffling of content based upon my rules? I should I should and that's really the main thing. That's what social networks I've right now. I despise no agenda social. I gotta say it I started this thing. I love that I love that Aaron or took over because a tremendous amount of work. But now it's like I I just want to subscribe to People and read what they have to say and I want to be I don't want to get into

So I think this is a you know, this, this is interesting. I've got a clip from Paul throt this clip number one, I think so. I think it's worth playing this real quick just just to see okay, so the issue here is the what we've all seen we all know about this this in certification of the internet

I think,

sorry, I thought that was

No, no, yeah, no hit it hit.

I think like I create content, we all create content, right? This is one thing. So not surprisingly, I see the value in content. And I see the value in paying for good content. I try to support content sources that I think are high quality. There's a podcast that I listened to that I really like, and for the most part, and the problem is there's not enough of it, and I'm running out of stuff to listen to, and I wish there was a thing, and they have a patron. And so that so they have

Well, he's right there. He's actually talking about two different techno feudalist, which is Apple, and also Patreon. What do they do like 10% these days? And then they'll kick you off? If they don't like you if they get complaints about, you know, a t shirt your war? Yeah, right.

I think this is this is an interesting is an interesting way. You know, I think as people who write stuff, they write code and sort of build out systems that do podcast delivery and podcast support. Let's just call it podcast infrastructure. I think it's always interesting to hear people who are not, who are technically literate. I'm not talking about you know, your grandmother. I'm just talking about people who are technically literate, but who are not in the

techno, techno feudalism.

The Techno feudalist? Yes have have put barriers in front financial barriers. And those financial barriers are not just purely financial, they lead to deep platforming. So you

you violate enslavement that leads to enslavement. Yeah, look at

Dominus. They violated they were deemed to have violated the terms by allowing people to send lightning payments directly to each other and they were taken down. They were deep platformed off of the app, the app store. This this is what this is why the podcast app developer. Community is so afraid. How many times have we heard over the years that you I would love to support that. But I'm just a little nervous that I'll get that I'll get rejected by app review,

or or Yeah, App Review, Apple, Google, Google has some weird rules too. Yes,

for the day store. And that, in some ways, Google's are even more arbitrary than iOS, me, because you'll go long periods of time with no feedback, everything's fine. And then just out of the blue. And so please, go ahead and play part two of that. Paul, throughout,

this is something where this is going to come up again and again. The answer is really, no, there's no, that's the problem. And it's gonna, hopefully, through regulation and customer pushback, some of this stuff will revert or get better, right?

Oh, yeah. Don't worry, the government's here to help. They'll take care of it for you. Yeah.

Yes. This is this is the this is the answer that people think we'll have is, oh, if we just sue. If we just get the EFF the the, you know, the FTC. And if we just if we just said anti anti anti trust, that all this stuff will sort itself out? No, no, no, no, no, that's that's absolutely not the case. Antitrust, anti competitive ministries of anti competitiveness, these things around the world. They don't exist to make. They don't exist to make the marketplace more fair. They exist

to give advantage to the to the big

to the incumbent and the big incumbent. Exactly. They are moat their moat builders.

That's exactly why you're seeing AI regulation. No one knows what it is. But we can't have people doing this stuff at home. Now, we can't have that which, of course, is already the genies out of the bottle.

But I think this I think this really solidifies that that idea that PWA is really are probably the the only thing that that the only thing that makes sense long term for a free for a purely free experience

a question about PWA? Is, is it possible once you've can can you load an entire podcast app being a PWA? Local, on your in your local browser? And I mean, I understand there's a lot of things you can't get without the platform itself, without the machine itself, per se, but the virtual machine that is a browser? I mean, can it? Can it do enough? Visit? I mean, I started to look into it a little bit, it seems like it is. So I know that, for instance, cast

Yeah, but ya know, yeah. And that's actually bothered me in the past. I'm like, you know, the only thing the only thing we really are here for is search. Yeah.

So I understand that and search can be distributed. There's lots of different, you know, thinking about that. But can you create a PWA that just has it all in one bundle, you load it once, now, and you load it from the server, you know, there's a command service and here's the latest version, kind of like a jar file back in the day, if I remember how Java used to work, like, like you started up brings in a new JAR file, okay, everything's good to go. Can Can that actually work in a

I think what you're saying is, can you could you build an app where the essentially the index was in the app,

bar, whatever relevant, whatever relevant? Well, not just the index, but the logic of all the logic that an app has, you know?

I guess. Yeah. You mean You mean like aggregating feeds itself, not

the ones you subscribe to storing, downloading storing stuff, there's enough space and all that within its machine, whatever that is. I mean, I thought that used to be a problem while you only have so many, so much room to store stuff. Can you store it in a download to your drive? Can it talk to your logical file system and all these things that I've not kept up on over the years? As PW A's have progressed? I think

my understanding is that PW A's My understanding is Pw A's have an Access outside of the browser cross origin sandbox? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's, I think that's the case if I don't think they're restricted by the same origin policy. Okay. If that and if that's the case, you, you definitely could do what you're saying. That, you know, think like, like Ben Ben. Benjamin Bellamy, you know, he had talked before about, about building apps with the whole

only what's 60 gigs or whatever.

60 Gig app download? Yeah,

well, I mean, you download the ones?

You don't? Yeah, it's definitely doable, because you could actually I know, this is a really interesting idea. If you had if you had like a seat, I can envision a service, okay. And I can envision us doing sort of like a build your own directory function. So that you could say, Okay, I want I want all of these, I want all of these feeds. Let's say you had some way to efficiently select large quantities of feed, like, like, I don't want any of I want all of blueberries fades, I want

right? Well, that's another thing you can miss always blocks, there's always roadblocks, there's always things that that that'll happen. But I mean, it really, if you just take it back to this simple RSS just blogs, just for site just microblogging. Just real simple. A progressive web app should be able to subscribe to feeds, pull them, but also create and modify your own feed, and upload it to IPFS or, you

There's just a difference. There's a difference in purpose between, you know, fundamentally between what I would say open source and the witching which is us is trying to do and what the podcast industrial complex what their, what their endeavors are.

So there's they're fundamentally absolutely open source. The web is open source. RSS is open, it's open. Anybody can use it, anybody can create it, the minute it's not, they're creating cloud capital, and it's meant to keep you out and it's meant to make money on it, which is fine. But unfortunately, the world is so connected now. That it's not just about money. It's

which condolences, okay?

Which, you know, is against European rules, it's violence towards women, it's, you know, it. It's, it's provocated, which, by the way, is what art sometimes is supposed to be if not always wavelength, you got to take that off. Now, that's going to happen, you just know what's going to happen. Doesn't mean that that that company's that

but love to have her on the show if she would ever be willing to talk about it.

I'm sure she will not. The Julie is phenomenal, because you can't just have a chat with her. I've had two phone calls each one three hours. She said she sent me a night she said no, but here's what's in she sent me an email last night. I haven't responded to it yet. This is one of the longest emails I've received in my life. Actually, let me do a word count on it. This is hilarious homage.

Does it come with a link to check GPT

want to be able to summarize it? Yeah, it's literally titled thoughts. Okay, hold on a second.

Love one one word subject and 5000 word even

though it may let me just see for it. And this isn't an I love it. And my first opening and my reply to her is going to be I love that you did this. Just let me just see Hold on a second. No, let me just paste this. Let me get a word caps. Let me get enough says it's a sub stack. Oh, no, it's it's like it's two sub stack accounts. Is there there's got to be a word I'm looking at notepad plus plus surely they have a

yes. And there is at the bottom on the status bar. Oh,

thank you my one Words 9779 Words. Whoa, yes. Now,

what do you fear for the mere fact the mere fact that somebody okay, this when somebody sends me a one a one or two sentence email. I'm very appreciative when somebody sends me a five paragraph email I am annoyed when somebody sends me a 9000 word email. I'm like, I will print that thing and spend a Sunday morning reading it. Because I mean, that is a person who has something to say, and you better listen. Correct.

So the first thing she goes into his US law about what is a podcast? And you know, should it be deemed under? Me? Oh, the radio guidelines? And so, you know, I'm going to set her straight on that. Because if, if the industry, the Haddaway, to license music and podcast, they would have done it. Are you kidding me? They would love to do that. But they can't, because they're all fighting against each other? Because is it a performance? Is it a stream? Is it a download?

and why would she? And I No, of course not. No, no, no human should under should have to understand

exactly, exactly. And again, everyone's just being super helpful. It's just the eye and I'm sitting there, my eyes are swimming, like, I'm 100. I'm gonna think about this for a second and come exactly do we need to do this? So there's so much thinking that has to go into this, that I'm very happy, we're able to onboard artists and all through this quagmire of just stuff because we've been dealing with liquidity of nodes for three years when we started, there was ln pay. We that was

Oh, okay, so you're saying that the the chapter, let's just say chapters in chapter or chapter title,

yeah, the chapter title and then something in the art you can dynamically generate something. So just like a timeline, you know, like the timeline on SoundCloud when people leave comments that so instead of the timeline, the minute someone says Now of course, you know, you'll have to you know, it'll be different each time you load up the podcast or whatever I mean, I'm not I'm not a bit chapters seem

Well, I mean, I think you could probably make I think he could probably make Hello Pat do that, right? I mean, because you could take your take

Yeah, you could have an export from hell it Well, the thing is it would kind of have to be dynamic because people are there listening to the show. Forget the live show just I released a show there should be no booster grams. So once the booster grams come in, for the next person should be able to see that when they load up the episode. Or may or may or may be there's a pod ping event that goes out at the same time and

I know, sweetie,

I'm really I'm on. I'm on a love trip here, baby.

As I think this is important for a couple of reasons. It's a good discussion, because we're between phases on the namespace. We got a lot of good ideas. Yes, there's some things we need. We want to go in, we get we want. We want to continue going forward, you know, undeniably. But there's also we don't here's a there's a risk here. The risk is piggybacking off what the discussion was with what Paul

Can the title of this episode be and should ification

I think it should be yes. Robert's Rules of orders. I vote I make an MA so. Yeah. So the fully and certified internet is going to make people walk away from it. Yeah, I think that's already happening. There's no other explanation on a large scale for some of the things we see. Now, now some some things are just sort of like a downturn, their financial. But I think post let's start with this. The pandemic broke everybody's brain.

Oh, we're all very, very traumatized by it. Perhaps we're broken. Yeah. We're broken people.

We are in in the brokenness, I think is manifesting itself. What one thing you've seen is massive travel. People are vacationing, they're getting away from in mass getting away from the internet more. I've done this this week. The last two weeks. I've had times like I would qualify myself as a heavy podcast listener. Yeah, I'm probably listened to, I don't know, two to three hours of

And that's a real danger. I agree. It's a real danger.

Yeah, we don't want people like, Julie, to be like, hey, you know what, screw this. I've spent all day on this. And I can't even get on I wrote

in the 10,000. I wrote 10,000 words.

1000 words, and I still don't have a lightning payment. I can't I don't know how to open a channel. You know, this is we don't want this

no stuff stuff she should never have to deal with. You're not a banker.

Right? So I think the answer really is a general slowing down and focusing on the quality on tightening up the things that already exist. And in enhance, you know, making this thing work, making it away, because we still have podcast hosts that have only done transcripts. They owe them that they haven't taken step two,

by the way. I mean, it's what's really funny is I realized, that podcast mirror, which is the blueberry service, I realized they have entire instructions on how to value for value, enable your SoundCloud feed. I mean, it's like I don't even want to tell people about that. But But I mean, how cool is it, you could literally hook up an Albea wallet, to your SoundCloud today and add an add it to the index and you're good to go. I mean, that's another way of onboarding. But I, I I

Oh, I haven't even looked at pencil long.

And where do I find that? I

have? It's on the it's on the index? Stats, maybe? No, it's not. It's on the value for value page. It loads progressively.

Yeah, not have my here. I have stats. 15,004 88 Yeah. So that's haven't gotten a report from our guy, Ron, about the growth. But I think the 50s We've gone from 15,000 to 15,015 and a half 1000 has been pretty slow. Probably.

Not sure. Yeah. Yes. He Brooklyn said we should get back to mailing out physical newsletters.

I am all for it. You know, I got a catalog in the mail the other day. You read it. It's this huge catalog of mainly for office supplies, but they have all kinds of stuff in it. I had an enjoyable experience. I'm like, Oh, what about this chair? Oh, here's a cabinet. I never knew I needed it just just thumbing through the catalog. Like wow. And I don't think these guys probably are onto something. They're not old school. This is new.

It's I subscribe. I now subscribe to a newspaper.

Alright, somebody needs to do a wellness check on Dave. No,

just it's Walter Kearns newspaper. He is a frequent newspaper. Yeah, it's called County Highway. And it is a newspaper of of just well written stories that don't the in and there it's not digital in any form. You cannot get this in digital format. It doesn't exist. It only exists on paper.

Bring back zines. Now,

I mean, you talk I love reading this newspaper. It is a fantastic experience. It makes you want a cup of coffee.

Yeah. ULINE is called Uline

Oh, I've seen this. Yeah. The online catalog man that well it's like a phone book. It's super fun. You can get if you need. If you need about 7000 feet of plastic wrap, you can they they're your they're your paper.

But there's a lot of other cool stuff in there, like a gun rack for my car like, Oh, I didn't know I needed that. Yeah, I don't.

Or one of those giant tape.

Those, those are hotspots. Like, Hey, baby, I got this huge toilet bottle dispenser.

Bubble wrap this as your head?

Should we thank a few people since we're here we can because I know you need we'll have some some time leftover after we do that.

I do but but I want to. I want to say that you are right. I just want to throw you a bone here. Say you are 100% correct about about you've all either the thing you've always said is 50% of our advertising dollars are working. But we just don't know which 50 We just don't know which half you have for advertiser is that the rest for advertising? You

know, half of my advertising money is working. I just don't know which half I don't I didn't come up with. By the way. That's not my it's not Adam curry original.

The title of this article for at age, nearly half the data used for ad targeting is wrong. Surprise. And it goes on to describe the complete farce that is data that is data ad targeting one provider, that average only 44% email postal match accuracy. Overall had, you'll see oh, no, here it is. Average accuracy, accuracy among data providers ranged from 32% to 69%. Wow, they don't know what they're doing now. Is this all a big force? So thanks for people.

Yes. And, and I will say value for value works doesn't all have to be Satoshis. But as we heard Paul throt say I just want to be easy. We have created this easy way. In the in the new podcast app. So I was appreciative of James his explanation, that it's just a fair ground token. Value for value. It's it's not crypto. It's a fair ground token.

Okay. corndog fun, okay. Hey,

I actually take the SATs that I earned and we buy B from Kane c capital with it. You know, I feel very powerful each time I do that say thank you boosters. I really do. I was very

zoomed in. I can see cattle ordering their shipping went through the roof for about two months. And then then now it's come back down to delivery.

That's a direct pass through. That's up I don't know what

happened. I don't know why when afraid when I went from like 100 bucks up to like 400 or something. I was like, Yeah,

but if you go to if you go to beef initiative.com You can find an exact similar rancher near you in Alabama, and they'll ship it there'll be much cheaper shipping, you could even go there and pick it up yourself

and have to leave the house and stuff.

Your truck would make so much sense driving onto the ranch. Like hey,

there's one of us. That may give me a discount.

What came in during this live show for some reason I didn't hear any pew pew is I don't know why that what happened there. We got 5000 SATs from Eric and love you guys trying to make my own music podcast. Thanks for the inspiration. We need those we definitely need. Oh, just quick little update question. Have you had any any chance to work on the remote items stuff in the API?

I started to and then I had to I had to try to figure out if I could do this

distributed distributed polling

yeah the x yeah export a copy of the non sure feature. It is right around the corner like I'm going to start it within the next day or so as

always this just go go as you can brother. I have learned now easy slow, steady as she goes.

Steady. It is it is it is right it is on the immediate do list yes okay.

6333 from shred word who says I'm boosting for Dad door full who is listening from the roof of Sir TJ the raffle he's putting on a new roof for us. I and shred word I shred word live in the top floor apartment of T Jay's house because he's got capital.

That's an Isaac Asimov book right I should

Oh, I guess you're right I didn't I didn't even connect that

I Robot. That was an AI robot.

Like it. Actually I wanted to play a doorbells. We're running out of time. Dobby daSun whoa dwelve let's get through these Dobby das 5000 SATs I've been working nonstop on bringing music shows to RSS blue. Most of the prerequisites are ready hoped to have it finished in two weeks time ah Adobe does love you love you love you love you. I can't wait to send all my DJ friends to you. I really can't that'll be that I'm so excited by that. Adobe does send us another

100 video episodes. Oh, hey,

happy birthday.

It's our 150th birthday.

Happy birthday. And then we're sad. Oh, I bet you know it's funny when you when you attend a party and don't even realize this for you, as Dred Scott says 150,000 SATs to celebrate episode 150

Sakala 20 is Blaze only Impala.

He says thanks for letting this non developer find a way to be involved go podcasting. Thank you Drib gets it Thank you brother so much. Thank you so much man. And that's what came in during the live show. Oh, we got one last one up is a donut my my jingle here it is. 777 77 We call that a striper boost from Sir TJ the wrathful says and I love the little Eric peepee inspired Hallo emoji there for the 7777 I freaking hate you lines please stop. Now V four v magazines I'd

it was mom and dad you're on your phone now welcome all the voices saying that you're not too many too many causes when you lose yourself getting known and and fine can't believe in all the filters that you've chosen through can hide the real inside the person that so many story lines tangled up inside with what you think is true I don't even grow with you now get you get you keep telling me all these birds shot you any livan away to see through all the broken glass to all

things oh yeah, other than me stepping on yourself. Oh, it was great that shit gives me goosebumps, man. Love it just goosebumps.

It just reminds you of the old of like Eric Clapton and blood they'll do what MTV

Unplugged. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Love it, but I love this a family. You have to do it together. The whole story is just so good. So good. That's what I want. We need more of that.

Yeah, I love it, man.

And back, back to the booster grabs. Here we go. We're gonna pick the hell out. Oh, okay. Yes, indeed. We get.

We get a big one. From Benjamin Richardson and Alberto botella. From maurices.com. these's they send us $1,234

whole Lee macro.

Sakala 20 is Blaze only Impala.

You guys, thank you so much. You keep you guys the hosting companies, man. They do so well on keeping this rolling.

Yeah. And as you know, they're the IPFS stuff in there. They're not just insular. They're not just looking into themselves. I mean, don't know exactly what they're looking at. They're looking, you know, the reason they the reason that rss.com sends us you know, $1,000 is because they see they're they're marching beside us towards what we're just talking about on the show. Like we've got to have a we got to push this thing broad it's got to go it's got to go wide instead of

and I was I was just thinking you know, it's like just jumping ahead three steps of course, but it's like that service I just talked about or even even sovereign feats, you know, if I could run that on my own start nine, I'd still cut Steve and be in for 10% You know, sure. Just because it's

Yeah. If you got like 20 splits in there. No, it's gonna

know so far it hasn't. That's the beauty of it. As far as I know. Now, you know, it's it's fantastic like 50% of most of my shows now are going somewhere else and I love it.

Benjamin Richardson says, Adam and Dave we are grateful to everyone in the podcast and 2.0 community for all the time talent and treasure they freely give back to the project we love what it means to be a two way loves love what it means to podcasting podcasters and listeners from your [email protected] go podcast go

yeah

see we've got and we've got an autumn a new subscriber automatic payment $1 from Yaren Rosenstein thank you for the subscription

you yarn Yeah,

we've got some booster grams for sure we got 3658 from the tone Rick, thank you Tom record it if you found any says a value amount amount determined not to have any associated references or messages other than things.

Thank you. And don't numerology involves

Todd Cochran 100,000 says he says Ask and You Shall Receive we are working on adding more 2.0 features go podcasting? FYI not grumpy yet.

I think we played I think we read that one on the last show actually. Might have come in live. Yeah. Might have come in live. We did that one. possibly.

Possibly. Maybe it was alive. Okay.

Thank you, Josh. Thank you so much. I know you're not grumpy yet. If Todd celebrated 19 years Oh, wait, I'm gonna have podcasting and he's on. He's on the Todd Cochran the you know, she's a big value for value. promotor man, he was on that pod news weekly review. Good interview with Sam.

haven't got there yet. Oh, it's great, like 15 minutes into a certain part. He

said, I'm sitting here. Listen, I'm getting ready for the show. And he's like, I mean, alpha Valley Valley, you've got to train your audience. And he's, oh, hold on a second. He says, I think people just cringe when I said that you don't train your audience. And I was just yelling at my at my phone. You don't train your audience taught and he corrected

himself. I love the trimmer in the pores.

No, but he's he he's he's he gets it. $10,000 in like four months to blueberry podcast podcasters to value for value with Satoshis it's pretty amazing.

To see drips, God said, Did we get the row of ducks Inception boost? 22 to 22?

I'm not sure. Well, we

got it through pod verse. Thank you, Dr. Scott. Thank

you so much, Dr.

Jean bein 2222 through cast ematic he says if you all could solve some of the linking and indexing of person tags, I think that would remove some barriers of adoption by hosts like bus route. Well, bus route does the person tag. They do that already?

Maybe it's talking about cross referencing and linking and like how many times what other podcasts is this person appeared on? Or do they host kind of remote Remote Reference a remote item or not? I guess not. Yeah, I don't think so. No. Okay. That

okay, maybe Yeah, I think you're right talking about the stuff we were talking about last week where you link between the where you pull the remote you follow the Remote Reference get the person from it and then pull it back in. Although

if the curry.com RSS feed, technically could be a remote item What do you mean? If my if my identity was an RSS feed? Am I Am I taking this too far now?

Oh, I see. SAE like where's the link in the the link in the tag goes to an RSS feed? Not

Yeah, I would have eyes a person. I would have a GUID. Yeah,

this is the I mean, this is this is SOP ml. Yeah.

All over again. Back to freedom controller. Right? Yes.

Yeah. Okay. One day

One day, we know we do and I know eventually we'll wind up there eventually we're all going to be freedom controller. Yep. In a PWA

in a PWA Jean being 2222 Again, thank you, Jamie says Busuu I think I've heard Mitch talk about the indexing of person tags being a problem for the pod for pod verse. I think that may have to do with just the lack of a Gu Id like a sort of a universal identifier for the person tag which I admit is is something you know simplicity was the was the driving force of the the early tags and if you have to have you know if you have to think about those things boom, but we may need to revisit

that's right. No, yes. No, I'd say that would be on the value for value podcast was mere mortals I

got okay. I'm nowhere near ready to attend a live interviews. Don't think I ever would want to actually that seems like a nightmare of complex.

Oh my goodness, it's so easy for you Kira. And you're a great conversationalist. You don't have to edit anything. Yeah, yeah. I mean, next week Tina's out of town let's do it next week. We'll and we'll do it live

there you go. There's your practice around the Chris You know 19 810 says through pod verse says 1981 boost for the year Trivial Pursuit came out my wife non trivial pursuit with the answer of Adam curry tonight from hearing this podcast on in the in the background often enough. She had to teach her dad what a VJ was. Oh, okay.

Oh, yeah, I'm a trivial pursuit question. This happened a long time ago. That's right. Oh, are you Yeah, you know you've got a made when your Trivial Pursuit question unless it has something to do with your death

that's no good. Yeah. Karen again for the mere mortals podcast. He says boosting as a test for the V for V app show running through. Okay.

Okay. Tests received and worked. They weren't five by

five. Franco 10,000 sets. The song on a podcast was from cruise box. All this music. Oh, switching technology stuff makes me think about rebooting rock cast Italia.

Cruise box.

What is that? Oh, the

Oh, hold on Santa Cruz box.

He's got a link here. Do you want me to get this? Yeah. Oh,

send me the link. Are you kidding me? This is the song that I was singing that I couldn't find. You gotta keep Didn't signal real quick. Yep, it was so but this was pointed up when we had the pod that we had the podsafe Music Network which was you know, pre V for V obviously, but see if this oh my goodness, okay, you gotta gotta just listen to this for a second

remember, way back last summer when mainstream radio was such a fucking music nothing's funny. Clear Channel buggers

here's the here's the hook

now you should have heard it on a rock and fucking just download the podcast no one's gonna stop it. FCC to stick in

the revolutions on I'm so happy I found that Oh, we got to get that we got to get that up on value for value someone reached out to was Lucas Lucas. Lucas I think who did that song. Wow, man. Thank you. I needed to hear that.

Did you get home did you get that bundle of ISOs I say

yes. You mean grab bag of ISOs I don't even know I don't even know what to use is so much. I haven't listened to all of them yet.

AGIS we've done 150 episodes I went back and pulled all the ISOs that we've played in the past we've used these

yes yes my favorite was this one. I just got five Satoshis

bundled that together for you because sometimes on no agenda you Oh show up and you don't have any so this is you break the glass. The handle and grab a randomizer

Oh, I love this giving people power and expecting them to be disciplined about it is completely insane. Yeah.

Thank you. I like appreciate that.

Thanks, Franco. Appreciate that. Man. That's a blast from the past comic strip

blogger areas delimiter limiter

30 3015. Through fountain he says. Now the podcast index LLC team Dave and Adam. Get unplugged with my Slavic bro John C. Dvorak and his multimillionaire pal Andrew Horowitz. On DHA unplugged podcast, your weekly digest of market antics, and economic musings. It's available at www dot d h unplugged.com. Stay ahead of the market curve with d h unplugged. Yo CSB.

Thank you CSB. Oh, I love the HM plug. That's first one of my most listens.

Yeah. In the the fact that he's still not valued for value. Just you.

I mean, they do donations. I know they do donations. Now. No. I mean, he keeps saying hey, I should do that. But his eyes glaze over. I'll get to one.

Is he still on? Feedburner? Yes. Yeah, that's

the main problem. He's on Feedburner that's exactly the problem.

He can go to podcast mirror now because they that's that's the feed burner killer. Right?

I'm going to forget it. I'm gonna suggest it to but then he'll probably be like five bucks. Just stick it Yeah.

Yeah. Is 27 F bombs

on a podcast?

Basil fill at $25 Thanks, basil. Pod verse. $50 Thank you, Mitch. much, brother. Yeah. Lauren ball. $24.20 Thank you, Lauren. At Michigan. $10. How Mitch? Christopher hyperbaric $10 So

we need to forbid Mitch from from putting any money in right now. He's quit his job to do this. Now. Save it. Yeah. Three months come back in three months. Yeah, come back in three months and three months? Yeah.

Christopher Harbach. Hara Barak $10. Terry Keller $5 Chris Cohen. $5 Jeremy Kevin. All $10 Daymond Cassie Jack $15 Derek J Vickery. $21. Thank you, Derek and Paul Saltzman $22.22. Thank you. Oh,

yes, thank you all very much for contributing value back to the podcast time, talent or treasure. Obviously, most of the people listening are contributing with time and talent. The treasure you heard Dred Scott he says this is a great way for me as a non non developer to still be able to participate in the entire process. So we really appreciate you and everybody else. You can also go to podcasts index.org.

I think we need to elite I think we need to play this up talk. Clip,

we can't leave without some mob talk.

It's a new version of a talk. Like it's not just your straight normal talk, oh, this is sort of it starts normal. It's a bad this is a clip about how podcast advertising is all BS, it doesn't work okay. But then if you notice towards the end, it begins to become like a sine wave up talk where sine N and N and N and O okay.

And I run the E commerce business but also all of our growth marketing and had been there three and a half years so pretty long time and I'm super excited to be getting kind of back into the audio space after a while. I think for the last call it eight years or so I've been at companies where we've kind of been limited with budget and availability to grow

man, that is a sine wave. It's like a very low hertz though.

What it for it is happening everywhere.

What company was this young woman speaking of?

I don't remember. Don't remember she basically said nothing works with it and nothing works. But Facebook has

rollercoaster That's right. Eric P pace. Brother. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day. I know it's a really tough time workwise it's busy and and for giving up your lunch. I still feel bad that all you had chips and onion dip. There you go and your hands are all greasy. And now it's on your keyboard and as discussed I did have

a beef shake though. wrangled one of those beef shakes and Tredwell.

Nothing like beef shake. Thank you very much chat room. Thank you boardroom for being here for podcasting. 2.0 our anniversary 150 episodes. Looking forward to the next one. We come back next week. We'll do another board meeting right here podcasting 2.0

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org for more information.

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