Episode 149: Scrape my JSON

Casting to one over October 6 2023 Episode 149 spring by Jason all hello everybody welcome once again to the official the one and only board podcast to join Oh, this is where the future of podcasting goes down. What am I saying? This is where it all goes down everything happening with the podcast namespace all the lovely stuff and podcasts index and organ of course we're all the creativity happens

I like how you intro me with a reference with it was sort of a backhanded reference to bad server management.

It broke a lot it was fun. You literally you filled up a lot of people's hard drive. When when the when that broke lots of fun and lots of things broke. Did you know how much broke?

I don't think so. Oh, yeah. Because I was just getting I was getting like secondhand information from like, la. The only thing I knew really was Oscar messaged me and said, Hey, I'm getting a lot of timeouts. And then Steven Bhasin am getting a lot of timeouts on the API. That was my only clue that anything was wrong. They said just heard from nobody

else interesting. So here's here's how it works. One level down, I get to my, my wife, fountain sucks. I get my friends, like phone's not working anymore. This and so I'm very defensive. So I have to be careful. I'm like, Oh, really? Okay, what what exactly is going on? And so there were two issues. There was an issue that had been going on for several days with fountain and that was you know, the the feed you know,

Yeah, like your your timeline thing? Yeah. Yeah. Well,

not not just the timeline

for the stream.

It's not what it's called. No, no, what's what's the actual library? So library libraries where your new episodes? I mean, yeah, you have your home screen. But the library so new, this is what I always go to. And so the new episodes weren't showing up and you refresh. And they would eventually you know, if you refreshed enough or they would show up. So that was going on for a couple of days and Emma M

at this moment. Did you choose to tell her that? That outfit is not great on her?

By the way, this what you're wearing? Take that off? That looks no good. It's terrible. No, no, this was not the moment I did that. I don't do that. But I can do that with my wife. She takes my advice. She really does. It's hard when she does it. To me. It's like take that off. You look crap.

That's more insulting than I've ever thought before. Sometimes my wife will do that before. She's like, you're you're not, you

know, you know, Tina looks at me. And you see the eyes dart up and down. And what's wrong? Is my fly open like well, you know, there's a spot or it's wrinkled or really those jeans. Oh, yeah. And so I couldn't figure this out. And then I see. Then I sent another message to you to Oscar, but it is kind of the same time I'm looking at, at the podcast index dot social. I see oh, okay, hard drive ran up. Okay, I get it. So that's why the API was timing. So it wasn't too bad. We all

Because I was balling. When I came in, I was listening to the boost ground ball, ball on the way. And you made a comment on there that things were that the index was getting, quote, creaky.

Yeah, I'm sorry, what I meant think that was that? No, it was not. No was not in reference to that. Okay. No, that was in reference. So I've it again, this is how you start to rely on things. So the split kit is incredibly important for the booster Grand Ball. Because it makes my chapters it does my, my magic wallet switching technology also known was known as value time split. So does all of it and and actually, Steven B

I did not did not drop the beat on you. I did not say that. No, I was I thought you were referring to the, to the timeouts, because that that really was like that was a rookie move on my part. I mean, like first sysadmin.

A little disappointing.

I appreciate you digging the knife.

No, actually, this is where I twist and pull it up. That's that's this part.

Now I'm up for air. You. So the infrastructure is fairly simple. I mean, we have a database, sitting it sitting behind two front end API servers. And these are just Nginx. Reverse proxies to a PHP, you know, your

standard stuff. I set those up daily. Yeah.

Yeah, no, you do. Yeah. So it's like, we have tons of log data. We log everything. And we

owe the the all the log eight my hard drive bit.

Yes. Yes. And so what typically, so we remove logs, and, you know, on on a 90 day rotation, so it's typically never a problem. And I was just like, you know, oh, I'll get around to throw in a disk space checker on these front ends one day. Because I've got a script. I've got a source, of course, yeah, of course. You're a

pro. You're pro of course you have scripts.

And then and I'm like, there's always something else to do. You know? I'm like, Okay, well, this is fun. Well,

is that the meme of the dog in the house on fire? This is fine.

So then, a couple of months ago, I don't even know how long ago it's been a while now. I had turned off the log rotation in order because I was troubleshooting a problem. And I just didn't turn it back on. Now, this thing's growing. You know, exponentially daily. I mean, some days the gigs. The logs are two gigs in size.

This is interesting. I've been my first company was in 1995. I think maybe 96 on ramp. And then I had one employee. And I've been I've run multiple companies. And I was always kind of in charge of technology for some not in charge of doing it. But I could translate between that and everybody else and backward and the other way around. And I would say throughout my career, it's always number one problem when when a client calls or something's going haywire, is of

Yes, and, but this did give me an idea. I mean, so this, it's funny how these things. Anyone call it like,

Inspire, Inspire, Inspire inspires

a good word. I don't think I don't think we built the index, I think a higher power built the index and just used our hands to do it. Amen. But I think that got me thinking along those lines, and I was like, you know, this is, this brings up a point that we may need to address which is decent. Pushing more and more towards decentralization.

Well, isn't that exactly what the problem with fountain was? I mean, it's not exactly the same thing.

It's yeah, I think you could call it that. And if we want I mean, is like we need to number one, let's let's just take the take this put this on the table immediately. Decentralization is incredibly difficult. Yes, doing it well, and maintaining a level of a level of service that is acceptable stuff that works. Quality. Yeah, like tour,

like my tour is broken. You know, exactly how you come to rely on stuff like that.

In tours, not a baby project. It's been around for a long time. It's it's got a lot of people working on it. This stuff is not easy. So, but it just made me think, you know, hey, we need to continue. I don't, it brought it back up into mind that my mind that we don't need to have that doesn't need to get lost. In everything we do. We need to always be making incremental steps towards decentralization, robust decentralization. Absolutely. Yeah, I can't really say exactly

So people can look at him You mean so people can help troubleshoot and see the logs? Good idea. Sure. Good idea. All these

things. Like we just need to make the and then and then I probably need to go back to the Rebrov rebroadcasting pot pings, because we went down that.

I'm just gonna say it right now, all of this eventually comes back to the freedom controller.

A really long, roundabout way to build

this is really what we should have done. Yeah. It's so true, though. It's so true. Well, I had my own. Well, actually, let me back up, I realized how vulnerable be vulnerable we are now that's not the right way to start. Is there anything else you want to say about this specifically, because we're gonna get back to decentralization? I think I don't want to cut you off mid mid thought pattern here. And I know our time is limited today. Darling, I know that you have to get back to your wife.

Yeah. Yeah. Get a firm. No, we were both in Texas this week. And I was in the house in Dallas. You were in Houston. And I'm assuming that what you're going to tell me is related to your Houston experience.

Yeah, well, yeah, I can start I was going to start there eventually. We'll get there. So yes, I was at the I was asked a long time ago by the Focus on the Family guys. Specifically Rob, you know, focus on the family. They have huge media. They have like 4 million listeners and they they used to be they started 37 years ago just as a radio show. Now they got podcasts and all kinds of stuff. They're very successful. And Rob is on the border Spark Media and Spark

it's like. And I think to this conference, young Pettaway.

Exactly, you know, you can snatch the pebbles from my hand. And the first thing you notice is, what is not at this conference? There's no talk about how many downloads, you got none of this, there's nothing it's only you know, how, how do you get get the word out? How do you promote? How do you?

In Whoa, give me an A.

I just didn't you extend your constant?

Keeps it like your T's? Yes. Your G's.

No, extend them, you almost fry fry frog. Can't do it on the constant. Anyway, it was just really fascinate this guy, you know, some of the biggest names in the music business. They'll call him up three hours before the show, I can't see my voice. I don't know what to do, and then they'll walk them through it. Fascinating. The other thing was, a lot of people understand algorithms. They're like, why are we getting shafted by algos? You know, and they really understand how bad it is,

algos in Greek is a neuter noun literally meaning pain. Yeah, pain or

suffering. Anyway, so as I was just thinking about in the keynote, explain how I came to all this. But I realized that these people need protection. And so I went through the whole history of basically RSS, not just podcasting. I watched your tone. Oh, okay. So you already heard some of this. Alright, thank you. And I think it really shows the true Genesis. For the first time I think I told the story of podcasting all the way to its genesis, which is not

that was that was the bet. I think that was the best version of it. that that I've heard all thanks. Thank you. I mean, I'm talking about your, your various, your various permutations of telling the history, I think I think that was like, I don't know something about it, it was laid out well,

Thank you. I'll link in the show notes for today's podcast. And I would say 99.9% of the people, basically, no one knew that podcasting had come out of web blogs, which had come out of RSS be like, Oh, really? So there's no understanding. And I really, and it really solidified for me just going through that itself, that a podcast is not the product that you're hearing right now a podcast is not it's a podcast is the actual transmission system. Yeah, that truly is what it is.

Yeah, I think I think we the, the infrastructure itself needs to be distributed and pod ping needs to be more piping is well is fairly well distributed now. But it needs to, it needs to be filled out. I think. It needs to be filled out with more with more data, and I can make that happen. With some work. I can make it where we talked about this before where

So they so yeah, so we become a pod ping bridge?

Yes. As I think if you know if anybody has reasons why that's a bad idea, tell me I'm open to it. But I think I would kind of like that, because I think about it this waitlist is what we tell people is sometimes people say, hosting companies or whoever will say, hey, I need API keys, because I want to send I want to add our feeds auto ml automatically to the index. So I want to hit the add in point, right?

You can do that with Ronnie, hey, can you do that?

I can do that. Yeah, but you can do that with puppy. And that's what I always tell him. I'm like, if that's all your need, then the API for you don't need the API, just use piping. And everybody sees the feed. And we'll add it. This this way. If we filled out pod pain with as much data as we could, then you, anybody could just watch the fire hose, the piping fire hose. And within a month, they would have virtually the

whole index. Yeah, the whole or the 400,000. True active feeds.

The active thieves.

Yeah, the ones that matter?

Well, interesting. You've just created a database just by watching the feed. Yeah.

So it's kind of it's not really glorious work. But for apps to be able to do this, too. I mean, on their own, just say, Okay, here's the my user has 20 podcasts, let's just say, I think that might be pretty fair, although a lot of those have unread flags on them. And so I'm really only trolling for these for these 20 feeds. So I could be either constantly listening, or there could be a lightweight service that says,

is that it's kind of like, it's like push notifications. Yeah.

It's a push notification. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, Alex already has a proof of concept work working for an Android slash, like GTK desktop push. I hope I'm getting that. Right. So I mean, there's, there's already been work done on that if, you know, push notifications are, they're cheap and light, like, you could run a $5 Linode. And set up a push notification server. So I don't think it's a heavy lift for pretty much any app, right? If they just watch

If we get this right, this fixes a lot of things in life. Now you can fix this for for what we used to call microblogging, also known as social networks, you can fix a lot of things, a lot of broken things, which would be fixed with this with utilizing pod ping in this way, I think it's very exciting.

It just makes the whole discussion and you know, you add in there, the Canada stuff, with the candidate Canadian registration requirements and things like that. It all just points towards the job's not done. We have it's done from the standpoint of, hey, there's a database anybody can download that that parts that parts, but then, like, I feel like we I feel like we have to push it further and further

I agree. They gave me they gave me a lifetime achievement award. And I was like, I have so much more to do.

Here. You're dead.

It's very, it's a great honor. It's nice, you know, of course, it's like oh, well, that's really kind of you to say, although what did I really do? You know, everyone else did the work. You know, I just the look pretty like yeah, that's right. Alright, so

now that the content the content is so much of the work though. I mean, like that, you can't discount that either. Like, you know, yes.

I've never gotten a word but never gotten award for the content.

No, you never will.

It someone said You know Adam curry getting a lifetime achievement award at a Christian podcast conferences like Caitlyn Jenner getting Woman of the Year and I thought it was funny.

Funny thing to say I don't even know what it means just a good line.

Yeah, I liked it. I

did I did kill a rooster this past week you know on purpose. Yes on purpose. For Why'd it last night?

Oh, you ate? I thought the roosters weren't that tasty. roosters are good to eat?

No, they're great to eat. This thing was delicious. No they they make you want they must be delicious because they make you want to kill them. Oh, yeah. So annoying.

Was not did you kill them just because you were annoyed by him or you were hungry or combos?

Is a combo? Yeah. But I never done the whole neck pop thing.

I've never done that either. To be honest,

I haven't. No. Okay.

Is it satisfying is it No? No. Did you walk around Do

you wake me up every morning but and I'm really want to eat you but this is said but then I get over it.

Wow, you're that you're real man. Your Trad man right there. I felt

like a man. It's so very manly after that's my wife had hardass for me.

It's a very primal thing. Yeah.

Hey, it was like it was like, Yeah, I'm so proud of you for doing that. Yeah, no, I'm proud of me. I was six the top 100 By the way, is fixed. Oh, what

did you fix? What did you do to fix it? Oh, God.

I told you last week, I knew how to fix it. And I was gonna fix it. Go visit the page.

Honestly, I haven't looked today. I'll be quite honest with you. Because I've been. There's a lot of other stuff going on. Okay, this chart is heavy. Okay. I'm just going to scroll down and guess that it's no, no, no, you know, 165 Oh, no, I'm gonna go back up to the top. Yeah. Okay. Right at the top. That's a great hack. Podcast. 2.0. Top 166.

Yeah, he changes the couch. Ah, this problem is solved. This was

fixed. Yes. You're so right. Yep. Problem solved. Perfect. All

right, moving on. Moving on to the next, Larry.

Like, what did he change? They click on something No, no. So along with this would come? I guess categories comes along with with this with the feels like everything comes from Can we assume that we work now on like, what data? Can we get into pod ping? Certainly work on both at the same time. So, you know, to the decentralization quest, at the same time, upgrading pod pod ping and then adding things in? Can I presume the categories? It can be a part of this?

Yeah, I think I think categories. Like once you have once we have the pod ping sort of thing. I think any of this stuff can be put on to pot thing like, because pod ping those mediums. You can you know, there's some kind of registration service can say, you know, a, I want to be notified, I want to get pod thing notifications that only want to get the ones this category.

This cat is for music. While we haven't already live, isn't that isn't that? Right. I mean, we have those things,

those filter filters as well as your filters. Yes. Yeah. But But then, if we have a robust category system, then you could, you know, filter that down even further and say, Well, I want only pains that have that are music medium and our metal.

Right? Yeah, of course. Of course.

What is it shows or whatever. Now,

I'm sure people have gone through this before maybe the what was the was the thing that when they get on the category? Yeah. I mean, how do you how do you create a mechanism to build a category? Master list? Because everybody has an opinion on this. Of course,

this is where it comes down to sort of two fundamental proposals and or ideas that have been batted around in the past. And I've always deferred this conversation because it's messy and complicated. And we had bigger fish to fry but I think it's I think we're I think we're getting back around to this where we're this is becoming something we can work on.

And we're a family now. You know, we have hundreds of people. We got a huge boardroom and we're family and we all know how to work with each other and converse and not get offended and figure stuff out. I think we can

power through this. Yeah. But it always comes down to either you Have a master list somewhere that's curated by a community. Or it's free for all free form. And really, they both have pros and cons. The good arguments can be made on both sides is really is true, I think. But I think we, James came up or proposed a long time ago to have sort of freeform freeform tags that are more like keywords freeform categories where you can, you don't, there is no master list like

Like just, you know, even though it wouldn't be something that would be like an APA style guide God caster would would be a tag that I think a lot of people would understand. But that you could have subcategories in that where you know, sermon, you know, readings, etc, etc.

Right? Yep, exactly. Is it? You know, this? This makes I think it when it when he first proposed it, I was like, Yeah, I don't like that.

There's like tag tags, basically.

Yeah. But then, but then, you know, we talked about it. Let's say we, I mean, me and Alex talked about it a few times and like it. I think it I think it does make sense. I think it does make sense because you can, you can after the fact see, like, you can build this out to where it is freeform. Real time like where people can put put in, in freeform, but then you can also use what's done what's been done in the past to make like a hint, hint list.

Well, there's prior art for this. Okay, prior art is hashtags on Twitter, prior art is hashtags on Mastodon and the Autocomplete is exactly what you're saying. Um, so if I'm, if I'm going to go in and I want to do a hashtag, this is a bot. And I type in, you know, piece of crap bot, it'll say, oh, hashtag bot is what you probably want to use. Because here's how many people are using that hashtag.

Okay, good. Yeah, good explanation. Yeah, I think that's, I think that works. I mean, because yes, you're gonna you run the risk of somebody where you have you know, heavy metal and somebody spells it heavy space metal, and another person says heavy metal with all one word. You're going to run into those issues. But with with the autocomplete you'll, you'll make that less of a problem.

Yeah, it's human engineering. It prompts people to think oh, let's just do this for a second if I go to hashtag explore on Well, if I do search on Mastodon I do bot. The let me see what it says. It auto completed some stuff for me. Botani bot D. Bot bots. And it shows me how many people in the past two days have used this hashtag. That's human

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this is this may make sense to me. But because when you have a master list somebody has to curate the list in some and then you have you're gonna have

yours always follow tears always come from this tears. Tears. Yep. Now,

in everybody in the categories. The Apple categories are just they

limited and unlimited is fine limiting. Yes. And that's not satisfying to you, but it's satisfying to people who drink Cupertino water for some reason, you know, something in the water. Stacy? Just kidding, Stacey. Yeah.

But yeah, I think I think there's, there's a lot to the duration we had in the start. I

like it. And it is I said the prior art is huge, passionate people search Twitter for hashtags. I see my wife doing it. Like, oh, I found this hashtag and they follow hashtags. You can follow a hashtag This is this is a huge deal.

We'll see I'm staring at the podcasting 2.0 Top 166 right now and there's there's like, it's so obvious that right connected to each one of these tracks. There should be some hashtags of what these tracks are. lambaste should say metal you know, hashtag metal hashtag, you know. Trance house, you know, whatever.

How about hashtag booster gram ball?

Yeah, yeah. Hashtag radio DJ. What are some? Because we, you know, we keep, we keep wanting we're struggling to, because to define

words, that's fine. Yeah, like, I realized I was talking to out, you know, I talked to Alex too. You're not the only one, by the way. Yes. Alex is like this mystery mysterious man in the middle, he pings everybody. And like, all of a sudden you realize he's talking to everybody and like, like,

his whole his bedroom wall has little strings connected

with pictures and flowers picture. Yeah, yes, that's a very creepy red yarn. And, you know, we were talking about the definition of radio what, what is what is radio? You know, and I think you at one point said, Well boosted grand ball that's, that would be a radio category. So now it's not radio, you know, but is radio is that a restream of an existing radio station? Now I personally think radio is the protocol. It's the it's the transmission system. But that's me. You know,

Yeah, I think I think we can start there. Because it's so it's such an easy thing for everybody to understand. And now where the AG, you know, step, step two of that will be where to aggregate it. So where do you, you know, obviously, we would, as we, as we see those those categories come in, we would aggregate that into, you know, into a list that's public and search in searchable and that sort of thing.

Also, it's much more worldly, inclusive, you know, so people can have Spanish hashtags, you know, different languages. You know, I think that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, the if. So, for if radio is the medium. And then country is the category. That's pretty self explanatory. Yeah. Really? You're listening to a country music radio stations?

Yeah. Then you could even do hashtag FM. What would that do? FM. That means it's also on FM.

Radio. It's Oh, it's as it's like a rebroadcast of your radio station. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All those those things? Like that's something that you they if you curate a list, what you would do, of course, yeah. It's hard to think of those edge cases all at the beginning,

of course, what what you'll see then is, and this has always been an issue is people will put 50 hashtags, remember that, and then the beginning with Twitter, people like 50 hashtags, just to get picked up by the hashtag searchers to theirs. But again, I think there's all prior art on this that we can look at.

Yeah, we just have some, you know, limit. Well, well, that that works. I mean, it's the same issue with keywords in the in iTunes namespace now. Because people put keywords in there. And you already know ahead of time that you're, they're never going to look past I think it's like 10 or Sure, sure. And everybody just understands, you know, if you put more than 10 in there, you're, you're wasting your time. So that that would emerge to from the way this thing is

sounds like a good way to go. Sounds like a good a good way to start.

Yeah, in May, and we have. So here's the plan for phase seven. From my standpoint, let me get over there and let me get over there on the hub. He's

on the hub Everybody watch out. Watch out. Have you roped ready he's

by the way, Eric peepee yeoman's work getting getting hell the new version of hell pad on the Start nine

I know you want you want to be totally blown away. I had sideloaded heli pad. So then out shows up in the marketplace. It says update available. It updated my side loaded, install. Nice, impressive, very impressive. Very impressive. And it works it's killer. And now if you do a value time split the remote item good is resolved in the in the entry. So you see the song name. Now you can click on it and it takes you right to the I guess to the link. The length is in the see if that's right. Now

we need to figure out if this new version of hell pad is showing so now you have strange you have access to the streams right?

Oh, I already had that in his in his version.

Okay Did you do you see any of samsat these boosts come through only through the streams or the boosts from pod fans

I believe I've seen a pod fans entry I'm not sure there was probably under boost it was for one sat so obviously I didn't stay looking at it for very long You didn't let it later on. I did not linger let me see I've got a I'm looking at streams right now. And let me see I have pod verse fountain breeze cast thematic I do not see a pod fans yet. I don't know if Sam's listening they've had a pretty busy week you know he's

if you can take a break from your wine

from your caviar from your caviar now I don't see it yet. I have hot Well, you know I could I could look at my export. I have a feeling that I there was a pod fans that came in.

Eric AP is asking what the pod stands issue is the pod. The issue here is that helipad. I think I'm filtering on just for the action in the TLV. I think I'm filtering on just boost and stream. And some of the pod fans TLVs were coming in with with other things that were not in the protocol. So they were getting they were just there. They're just getting

By the way. Sam Sethi great job on the Progressive Web App.

Oh, yeah, your

pod fans really enjoyable. I used it. I couldn't find the boost button though. It was just me. And it's an icon. I know I was streaming sites but I I'm like where's the just wasn't apparent and sometimes you're so used to something that you that something new comes along? You don't quite understand it yet.

I love the Yeah, only Yeah, that's right. Eric can only does boostin stream. I love the installable PW A's. I mean, which is a true PWA to begin with. You know, it's not just a web app.

It's a progressive. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

It's like it's when you when you go that extra step and make it sort of into an installable item. Like music side project. And that can or LM Bates. I'm sorry. It's like it makes a huge difference if it just feels good. It feels like a native app.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, no. Drip. I haven't put. We haven't done the Umbral update of a helipad. Yet I just. I met. I met this weird point. I had a great I had a great meet up with Spurlock out in Dallas. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we had beers. And you know, he was we're just talking over things. And I mean, I'm in this weird point right now where I've got it's a probably feel like Steven B, where there's so many. There's so many avenues of things to roads to go down. I'm not sure which one to tackle

I have a pod fence, I found a pod fence. previously ran ball episode nine.

So nine is less reason.

Now 10 is the most recent I just I was just looking and it was eight SATs though but it was a booster gram. I think they'd have a message. Just see

in did it show up in the boost section or the most stream so it

was number two. Boost. Taylor Williams. Okay. So that was mystery solved. Did it does come through Sam's just drinkin. He's not listening to us.

He's not listening to the show. Yes, I'm not I'm not sure which avenue to go down. At this point. I don't know where to focus my efforts because we the top 100 It's mostly stable. It's working. Yes, it needs it needs stuff too. But then everything else needs stuff. I'm not real sure. You got an opinion?

Well, we just got we just okay. I'm okay. Yes, I do have an opinion. But okay, but it's more from the podcaster perspective podcasts or listener, etc. I would like to whatever we do, I would like it to help solve or work towards solving one of the big issues of podcasting with and this is one of my aha moments, which is discovery. So the best way to promote a podcast is to have another podcast or talk about it. Or if it's an interview show to be on that show, and this is

Okay, so where do you think I know where that I think I know where I need to start then. Okay, because so remote item is still not in the index. So that's the, that's the place to start there. Put the remote item but the remote Items table in the index so that we can begin to properly capture that from the feed, then then we can start to do the linkage there. Then we can pump that stuff out into other in not just through the endpoints but through or not just the the API

yes, I think that that's an important. I think the apps I mean, this is something that the Oscar sent us a screen recording of something which looked really cool and was kind of a version of what I just said, when I was like hey, you know this, this this podcast played this song, click on this song you can now you now you're in the artist, you can see everything the artist is doing. Then he had a version of that. Again, I think that the the top 100 which currently let's see,

So okay so that yeah, all right. So we you want to be you want podcast, you want podcast guru to be able to say it to be able to show you know you listen to a song and then it says you know hey here's the for DJ shows that that song was played on.

I mean, I can see it going even further than that but yes, because ultimately

will go go further. Okay. All right. So

I heard a song on a podcast I heard a play it on a podcast. Wow, that was a song. Remember that? That song? Yeah. That was the first the first version of this song. Yeah, I've heard it on a podcast. Brother Love wasn't it brother love Brother Love. Current podcast? Yeah, I think let me just see if I can find this. Okay, so I'm listening to I wish I could find that song.

Tell me that's not the song for today?

No, no, otherwise was the song I heard it on a podcast. It was good. It was a good song. So I hear a song on the podcast. Then my app is saying here are the songs that were played in this podcast. Oh, I'm going to click on the song.

I do? Yeah, yeah. Do in this. Yeah, this is very, this is doable. Because we can begin to link these we begin to link those things together with the person tag and other things. I mean, like because we haven't really put you know that that second sort of like, what would you call like second level? Connect connections or inner interop? Where where you have so you have a DJ show? It was okay, so booster grand ball. The booster grand ball you're playing? You're playing songs by

Yes. Precisely all of that stuff. And then it's, and this solves the big problem of discovery. It really does. I mean, it makes it so much it's so much better. Also, I promised everyone in my keynote we were going to do that. Just saying

I made a special promise. Just

say I did make a special promise. Because no one else can. This only works with with RSS. No one No one else can do this. It's It's so unique. is incredibly unique.

I've got a I've got an ISO you can fire well on that one. No.

Okay. I mean, right. Yeah. Congratulations to Mitch. Mitch Downey. quitting his JD day job for three months. That's some dedication right there, man.

He's, he's been dedicated since day one.

I know. But he was born dead. I know. But he's just like, I'm gonna I'm gonna focus on this for three months and just go go go. I love that. Yeah, and that's balls. That's balls. I love that. Can I say it again? How much I love. I love it. I love that. That's great. Mitch. I've my most exciting moments of life has been when I've quit things. Yeah, to do coding to do something else.

Yes, the Mitch is hardcore. He when He He believes and something he goes, he goes for it. He doesn't just, you know, he's not he's not a half assed person. That I think, yeah, you know, the the pilot that the other thing means Spurlock talked about was just the podcast ecosystem in general. I mean, it's so messy right now with you know, all even I mean every week it's it's layoffs and and stuff I mean it's it's nerve wracking time to be making a business that is

that. Absolutely.

Absolute mad respect. And he's a no puffers has been around. People forget that. You know, I'm just gonna geek on pot first for a little bit run out. Commerce has been around for, like 10 years, quite a while Oh, yeah, way before podcasting way before we came along. Like it's been up. I don't think it was fully open source. I think that came later, maybe in the last maybe two years ago. But pod verse has

that gets me really excited. I'm like, Oh, wow, look at oh, we're gonna circumvent all this. They get they're gonna have to come and take take my podcasts from my cold dead fingers. I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna I'm gonna stand in front of this whole group with my with my AR ah, oh, no, I get excited by it.

I get such motivation and intemperate tempering, from seeing the people in 2.0. That just, they plug away at it every day. They don't get discouraged. They just get or they do everybody does sometimes but they they, you know, the the measure of of character. One measure of character is you get discouraged, and you get down. But you still keep doing the thing. You don't stop. You don't let it overwhelm you. You keep plugging away at the thing that

So elephant in the room for a moment. There was over on Stephen B's emporium of apps. The curio? Yes. Well. He has the he has the telegram. My like a telegram house. I really don't like Telegram, but I kind of hate it. It's not my favorite app. But you know. So that's where Steven B has set up his six different groups that we've talked about his different products. And after some waiting and some promising wavelengths came out with their wavelength artists splits.

Yes. Okay. I want to know your thoughts on this, because I have thoughts that I think may not may, I think may be different than yours. Okay.

So first of all, there's there's a lot of disappointment, anger, resentment, that, that I was reading and feeling. Ranging from in well, and you know, we're going to be talking to those guys soon. So it'd be the same thing I'd say to him on a call. The thing that one of the things is, you know, they just ripped off the idea if they kept kind of like a Spotify vibe, like they ripped off the idea of splits, but didn't do it in this in a way that's compatible with

Yeah, yeah. I think you hit I think you hit it appropriately when you said they're a hosting company. They are. That's what they are. They are a podcast hosting company, with very short podcast with a very short, very short podcast. And I think that's really, that's that's the proper context for this for this discussion. So I had to through sort of initial reactions. One was, it's understandable that they've that

Yes. But it's

their hosting company that was also version

zero 0.01.

Yes, because also do not have nearly the resources of rss.com or blueberry or Buzzsprout. You know, they don't have they wavelike is microarray. And now, very, very recently, one other developer that may be part time, I'm not sure. And that's very reason I think that's within the last few weeks. So it really is a one man show, essentially, for the most part.

So it was RSS, blue, but they're doing, they're doing three things. Right. And that, and I think that's the issue. If you're a hosting company, if you're a podcast hosting company, you're i Your mission is to get your, your clients distributed as far and wide as possible. That is the inverse of what they are doing. Although, after much requests from us, they are adding, I think automatically now adding feeds

Right, that that's, that's where my comment about just having one developer, that's where that comes in. Because I feel it, man. I mean, when you got a day job and a bunch of different products to manage, you feel like you do a terrible job at all of it. And I think in the only way that you manage those expectations for yourself and your product, is by going slow, and taking time and doing very incremental improvements over time. And I think that's exactly what

It sounds like you know more than we do. I'll be very honest with you.

No, that's not true. I don't know anything more. I'm looking at this purely as a solo developer. And I'm looking at the amount of stuff that they they are doing, because look at okay, think about this way. Use the I use the example of rss.com or bus route. They have many developers. They have many developers and they're all in there. And they still take weeks or months to bring out a new feature. Sure. This is one dude,

I hear you. But they're basically programming. Okay, I totally understand that develop And they're developing for to distribute it. Let's go back to the to the to the basics, this is really a problem of developing for two distribution mechanisms that have a payment model included in it. And they are chasing one more than the other, I believe, or they are trying to set it up. So both work that if you're one

I know, I know that. I know, this bizarre and people are gonna be mad at me for for defending this and, but it's just I can I can look at it and know that I put myself in their, in their shoes. And I can see myself as Michael and trying to manage the rollout of features that you that you need, you need them to work and you need them to be easy. And you're also

Waveland was was this incremental?

This is very incremental, because wavelike it imagine, okay, look at the complexity of what albies doing. Now B we can say is, is, quote unquote, open. You can they have put like sort of public wallets, okay? That's the only thing they do. Imagine if Albie then decided to start hosting music. Now, all of that extra complexity goes into becoming now they're going to become a podcast host. All of a sudden,

value blocking an RSS feed is, is defined, it's not it's not risk a

but wavelength doesn't the wavelength doesn't Host Open wallets, you have to have an account. So that's what I'm saying. When you have an account as a creator, you that's where they're starting. The next the next step, once they've gotten to that, um, when we talk to them this week, we're gonna have a call with them. I guarantee you, they're gonna say yes, that's on the roadmap, because that's the way this

I'm with, I'm with you on this. Okay, it does not feel that way. If you're, you're approaching this from a one developer standpoint, which either you know, that's true, or you just feel it that way. Doesn't really matter. If a hosting company had done this, we would have been like, what are you doing?

I just want to make sure there's not a double standard because like if, if ban it, let's say Bandcamp tomorrow, said that they're gonna start doing RSS feeds for all their for all their music, then that's all they said. They weren't gonna they're not going to do they're not doing value. Don't do anything like, Oh, they're gonna use RSS feeds. We would be like, yes. Rock on. But they didn't go all the way with it. They only went part they only went step one, but we would be

You're okay. The double standard is calling it splits. saying we're gonna do splits, yep, splits are coming. If that's not true, these are not splits in our vocabulary that we're saying we're going to do. You don't have to tell me your strategy or your or your roadmap, although everyone else does. It just didn't, you know, just it's not a double standard if you want to play with us play with us. And if you say, Hey, we're going to do artists splits first and then, but the X, the

I think my I think Michael and Sam have been, they have clearly told us who they are from day one. They are people that care, first and foremost, about the presentation, and the quality of the product experience. They clear I mean, to such a degree that they did not even some auto submit feeds to the index, because they were afraid it would be messy. So this is great. This is app they are they are the I don't I mean, this is a I don't mean this is not

Yeah. But if you're the apple, you don't also develop for Android, you know, this, I can we can take the analogy, because they're doing that they're developing for Android, which is noster. From my perspective, and again, I want them to succeed. Wavelength took off when we started sending when we start including songs and podcast. Anyone who tells me differently is full of crap. But I agree with Nick and to be very

That, you know, I'm not gonna say I have no irritation about it, because you know, like that the very top of their announcement is talking about zaps and noster. When when we know that, that it's podcasting in it that is driving revenue across the board on music, right now that do things like that do irritate me, but I'm putting, I'm trying to set that aside because it like an understand. So here's what I'm reading directly from their article. It says in order to

Maybe I'm misunderstanding I thought Zebedee was their wallet provider.

It I don't know who their wallet provider is on the back end, but I believe is okay, it might be that. But what I'm saying is like they just they're here's another here's another destination I nobody's ever been clear to me who's their providers of what?

Well, if you look at Zebedee is marketing materials, Zebedee, basically invented fountain and wavelike.

Now, which is not true, but okay, I'm just saying, yeah, yeah, right. Right. So that's what I'm trying to say here is there's they have, to me that says, I'll just read that paragraph, I just read from their from their thing says, this is a this, it says, literally, to ensure payments are made consistently, that that is language that I read. And that tells me I, as the developer, am worried about failed payments, and things, which we then have to explain to

I hear you. I hear Yeah.

That's that's the way it feels to me open splits are. They're critical. They're absolutely critical. In but but every step in the process, like like, like blueberry, blueberry, and rss.com, they both have the ability to put your wallets in there. Well, they don't. They may in the future, you know, okay. Well,

I'm just looking at, you know, Zebedee fountain podcasts, almost doubled their user base after Zebedee launch. Really, I'm so glad that was because of the wallet. It's great. Yeah, this fee feels icky. That's all just feels icky. You know, Zebedee should be playing in the space with us. Like Albie is my personal opinion. But they're not because they have a different model. Their model is you pay us to use us and no one has the money for that. And Ron,

is also VC involved in all this. And I mean,

this is my fear. This is my ultimate fear. Right? Because that that makes people make certain choices that sometimes aren't necessarily good. But I'll go with you on on this. But other people are further ahead. And and I have a vision in my head for what value for value, by the way is there but he has value for value all over their website. never talked to these guys ever. But I like to say there's tell him that telling me what value for value is. My vision, my personal

I was disappointed to I don't I don't want to act like I wasn't. I mean, I was disappointed. For sure to see Do that need to see that I could not upload my music and then put in then put a separate wall you know, and then put somebody who's not a wavelike user in the split. I mean, this is like, I mean, here's the critical here's the critical from Dave part.

Zebedee is noted that it's apps new featured here I'll just type this is where it comes from. Zebedee announces alpha for new social layer powered by noster. Okay, so so this is their wallet provider is focused on noster

it because it's Bitcoin because it's the Bitcoin Maxy bursts. Yeah. But

he noted that it's apps new features have attracted partnerships with prominent industry players, such as from games, wave Lake, fountain and gesso. So, so they're not, they're not a wallet provider. They wavelike is using a wallet provider. I would love to have Zebedee in the 2.0 crowd. There'll be fantastic. Can you imagine?

Yeah, sure, but they won't because they're, they're infatuated with Bitcoin bro culture?

Yes. Yes.

And that doesn't do anybody any. It doesn't do anybody any service.

I need to get you out of here. Because it's 10 past two. And I want to I want to be respectful of your time. This is what you say in the meeting. Everybody, I want to be respectful of Dave's time. So if you want to, I mean, we can do we can do booster grams and thank yous, we can do that on next show if that's easier, because now I

know, it's not a heart out. It's a firm. So I'm a little squishy.

Alright, so the good news is we'll be talking with with Sam, and who else will be on the call? Michael Michael. Right. Yeah, we'll be talking to them this this coming week. So I'm very excited to have something to report. And we'll and we'll get some true information. If anything, this is just this is the worst part of any organization is communication. Yeah, that that is the I've been and I've failed at that. So many times in my own companies, you don't communicate

I just meant, I just meant I could go for some ice cream.

That's exactly it. So value for value podcast, true value for value, which this you know, we don't have VCs here, what we have is people who support the project who support what we're doing, who support the node. We open up channels and liquidity to anybody who needs it. Don't be bashful. Just hit me up a note on the podcast index dot social or, or email me or whatever. We're happy to open channels to you. We got a lot of them. This is where all the Satoshis go to. But we have

That's your campaign.

That's me, baby. All right, so we want to thank some people. Who do we have? Oh, anyone? Let me let me thank some people who've been boosting. During the show. We got quite a few here on the homeless second. Mike Newman 7777 enjoyed your keynote Adam similar to Dave's impression I heard humility gratitude and a sense of we're just getting started here. Scaling is always the next stage love and go podcasting. Sir Brian of London 1948 hive wallets behind V four v dot apre

Bala. Sakala 20 is blades on am Paula.

Hi guys. Appreciate all you do. Sorry. If my big booths of angels music cause any of these issues? Yes, it is your fault. Dread curse yo, it's all your fault. That's funny. There Sam Sethi one set. Pod fans payment says it right there. It came through 30 minutes ago. It's a SAM Sethi baller boost.

Micro says

it's coming through it's coming through Sam, we've received your signal. Then we have Hey, citizens 6960 And I boosted a little prayer but forgot to change my name back from earlier I was masquerading as comics trip lager which is here it is This is so I thought this is Chrome. I'm glad you told me hey citizen because I thought this was from comic strip blogger. Oh, interesting. I just see you if you mouse over the Satoshi amount. It shows you what your Oh my goodness. This

you Brian. We need you. endowment really.

10,000 SATs from Todd Cochran. Oh my listeners want fountain to start supporting live videos seeing you're doing tech support for fountain. Hey, Oscar. There you go. And 100,000 SATs from Todd Cochran. Asking you shall receive we are working on adding more 2.0 features go podcasting? FYI, I'm not grumpy yet.

That means it's not ready to ship.

Yeah, we know blueberry is doing a great job. Fantastic job. And, and yeah, that's what I have. That's what I have.

Well, I've got a Pay Pal from Oscar Oscar Mary, also known as Mary Oscar $200.

Oh, thank you. Thank you, Oscar. Appreciate that. Brother.

Thank you for keeping the focus on RSS. Oscar. Yes.

Thank you very much. We know we know how hard it is. We know how hard it is.

It's a hard world to navigate. Thomas goose DOT says it gave us $25. And he sizes daily. What daily wire is an example of a company that has profitably monetized the network. But they don't do it with ads. Yes, they run ads, but they have their own form of V for V called Daily wire plus, most of their value comes directly from listeners. I don't know anything about daily wire plus. Yeah, daily? Well,

I don't when I say you can't monetize the network. I'm specifically talking about advertising, really. And they're closed network. I do not believe all of their podcasts are open. So it's a club. It's like the blaze. I mean, that's to me. That's not monetizing the network as in the open network.

The reason you can't monetize the network and an AdSense is because there's no there's no artificial scarcity of space.

Correct? Correct me And I know they they put stuff out there with ads. But yeah, they do. Huge if they had, if you have a million people sending you 10 bucks a month, you're doing great, but that's not monetizing the network.

You're doing great. You also have to register in Canada. But

don't worry, don't worry, everyone comes value for value eventually, it'll all happen.

Mere Mortals podcast chyron. Over there. As soon as 20 to 22 Row ducks at the fountain he says, in the Ellen beats app, I clicked the option to boost a certain amount after the end of every song. This counts toward the top 100 plus change. Right? Yes. So when I listened to his top 100 tab on there, am I just reinforcing the top 100 order? Not necessarily a

recursion.

The answer is this will all break.

That's a good question. Actually. I'm gonna be on the value for value podcast. Coming up this week, I think, Oh, you're great. Yeah, I caught them live the other day. I boosted them live. It was fun.

Like what time does he go live? I have a feeling it's like it's a n

a. m, it was 10am Australia time and it was in the evening? Yes, the day before here. So it was 8pm Yesterday, when I was doing I was sitting by the pool in the garden. You know, the sun was going down this trickling of the water and I'm listening to him this morning in Australia, boosting him I'm sending notes through booster grams. It was almost a transcendent experience because it was live and and then he read my booster gram and I am 59 years old. I've been in

Mere Mortals podcast again 1548 To do pod fans this time. The action here is booster Graham. So that's that's the issue. So that the action verb here is booster Graham where it should be boost. Fixed. That is from September 30. So that may have been fixed. I don't know. But as of this boost is not testing out the new pod fans PWA on my mobile, what are you laughing?

I'm just laughing that we get one set from pod fans.

They just love it. It's funny.

I'm not sure why but

it's pretty slick and worked well right out of the box would recommend giving it a try to everyone listening. Alright, so it gets some pod fans love. There's Mary Oscar. He says Oh 10,000 10,000 SATs, the fountain. Of course. He says, Adam, Dave, could we get an API for the top 100? Well, there's not an API for it, Oscar, but it's the URLs right there. So there's a little JSON at the top, there's a little icon on the top 100 chart. So icon for JSON, just follow that

Yeah, it's much easier than an API or does that add complexity? So we have to now parse and do something with it. No, it's

It's easier and it smells better.

Smells? smells real. Strawberries really?

Oh yes. Bed Bath and Beyond. Cast VLAN 3693 found a nice a streaming SATs with an empty wallet does not work. So at last moment boost this time. Oh, thank you, Cass.

So you're saying scrape my JSON is that we're basically the message

t shirt. Scrape by Debbie mash. Or Debbie Nash 3333 through fountain he says raising a glass to CSB and his trance music. He's got the Polish flag and a beer there. Nice. Good. Good emoji work. Jean been 20 to 20 tends to cast Matic. He says I feel like if it's a top 100 chart, it shouldn't be 100 songs. Not more, not less. Well, we fix

that problem is let's see if it's still a Top 100 Top 166 Where are we at right now? Whoa, ladies and gentlemen, the chart has changed. We're now top 151

We're going the wrong direction.

That's great. That's great. I love it podcast. This is the best fix of all time Dave.

Fix of all time.

All the C 1701 Star Trek boosts his top 100 Plus. Thank you so stay Yogananda another 1701 books he says the podcast index.org is the reference implementation. Oh, I like that

1701 That's is that well how does that How is that a reference number

that says no no, no, he says the podcast index.org Oh, oh further people? Yes. Yeah, roll their

own. Yeah, exactly what we are

7777 striper boost from spam proof. He said As he or she says Hillsong owns most Christian evangelical music being played in mega churches today. Elevation worship is big too. But historic liturgical hymns is not owned in that way issues, etc. is a podcast that frequently does music using hymnal songs and weekly chapel service recordings without any copyright worries. I assume they should they should set up set themselves you

know, shred word, you know shred word. Yeah. So shred word. He just sent me a track. It's on LM beats. Psalm 54. He and his wife then now they're doing songs, and then they're making up the music. And then they're singing the song for literally from Psalm 54 If you said that was from elevation, you know, worship I would have believed it. It's so good. It's like mind

blowing that's that's an index.

Yes in the AI but he is his value blah his splits are wrong. He needs to put a split in for God I think it's for the word. King David King David split.

Yeah, for publishing rights.

Can I just I'm sorry to interrupt with just one thing about the heli so I thought people were putting these in themselves when they send like in like a row of docs like Oh, that's cute. They put in a couple of ducks. No, no no. heli pad does that by itself.

Yeah, that's one of the things Eric pap did I didn't

realize that was automatic because I'm seeing these the satchel of Richards I'm seeing the the eggplant emojis. I thought people were putting that in the in the boosted gram, but that's good. Man Herrick. PPU slay me, brother. That is.

Yeah, he's he's really picked up the torch and run with Hello, Pat. And I just thought of it about once a week he drops a merge request pull request, and I just merge and I'm like, yes, yes. Yes. Yes. So good.

That's so good.

Bring it. Ainsley Costello. Oh, 500 said hello,

Ainsley. Thank you.

What up girl?

What is this Dave Jones. That's a side of you. I haven't heard before.

I would love to see a chart for all the new podcasts music shows. Thank you, Adam and Dave, for all you're doing to make this new music world a reality lightning emoji?

Well, that'll be that'll be part of the cross referencing system that'll show up. Somehow we'll we'll be able to find that automatically. Or even if someone played to play the song, not necessarily a podcast music show. But for now, LM beats has a pretty good list.

spit and polish does not slow us down at all. We just roll stuff out there. So we will. We will make that we will we'll be having something going forward. 100% 100% Becker advice Chad 6969 through fountain. He says board meeting 147 felt a bit obligatory and frankly, fell under the category of quote meeting that could have been an email unquote Wow. realist. Well, that's hard. Yeah. Read listened to 146 twice because I

time. Yeah, it's it's a talent when you do it and it's Bert stung a little bit.

Thank you. Thank you. Slack careered.

No, please.

Becker advice Chad fallin up 1616 91 He says laugh out loud listening today's day wished gunnery on people never get old literally in the tough moments of podcasting to put it on auto replacements as the only episode. Gene being 20 to 22 to cast Maddix is Dave, when you were talking about categories and mediums and how they work together to describe what a show

Oh, is the DSL interesting? DSL, domain specific language that sounds like something pretty meta, like, you know, like kernel like the kernel of Linux, DSL.

And now I have to look at domain domain specific language. The slide and a specific country programming language with a higher level of abstraction optimized for a specific class of problems. Wow. DSL uses the concepts and rules from the field or the domain. Whoa, yikes.

Whatever it is, sounds like a big responsibility. Dave That's on you.

That's dropping the ball. Macintosh 2100 SAS the founder says thanks for your leadership gentlemen, Macintosh Well You're welcome. Anonymous podcast guru user send us a satchel Richard 1111 This must be Jason. He says, testing out some new podcasts guru goodness there's an app explosion going on I

pop props for podcast guru notifications. These things are fast, little known.

Little known. fact that podcast Guru is one of the few apps that does video. Um, so if anybody's you know a big video user, please check it out. Oh, we got Comstor blogger got 301 limiter loader. Here we go. How do you Dave and Adam. Today, I recommend embarking on a whimsical journey with Jean and Ben in the just too good old boys podcast, both from Texas, both avid and experienced international travelers, transitioning from political satire to biblical banter and

Wow, thank you very much. Sorry, we didn't play a song today. Oh, you want to watch so we just leave with a song so that you're okay. I chose this song because now you know, let's not play song. Let's just not play it. What No, no, no, no, it's the wrong song. No, I've this will be stricken from the record.

I feel like I got rug pulled What did you have queued up

Bobby shell.

Was that the wrong song? Well, I this this feels feels like tooling problems.

Can we get Can I just let's let's just not play song but you gotta go. It's, it's 152 this one it would be too polarizing for too many people if I played that song. Okay, that's how powerful this song is. It's so powerful. That if I played that song people it'd be it'd be too polarizing. I don't we may not the people might drop dead in the boardroom.

Okay, you're gonna have to go back and edit all this out.

No, I'm leaving all of this in so people will go and listen to that song. Okay, I'll play it. The reason why it's Polaroid. I liked this song because I like it when you have a new. New a new like, hip hop when hip hop first started. People be talking about the radio stations that were that were playing the songs they'd be talking about the DJs they'd be talking about the mix tapers, you know, very cultural. So Bobby Schell who I like a lot. He did this new track beefsteak

it. Yes, this is a must. This is a must play now. It's definitely

a must play brother. I'm sorry. We kept you so long. You gotta you gotta get out of here. You gotta get out. You get BM save those accountants.

I was still firm.

All right, everybody. Thank you so much. This was the podcast in 2.0 board meeting. We will be back next week, same time. With a lot more to discuss. We hope to see you here until then. Adios.

Thank you, everyone for being here tonight. To close out the evening. We have Bobby Schell. He's going to be performing a originals. And I think it's gonna be very tasteful for the crowd that we have here. We heard some of you are based. You have traditional families, and you believe in sovereignty. So everyone who's on the fringes and not for that. You might be one of the clown world people So Bobby, take it away. Wake up in