Episode 147: Like Lavender

podcasting two point over September 22 2023, episode 147 We're like lavender Oh yeah. Hello everybody, welcome once again to podcasting 2.0 Your Friday afternoon deadlights we are the only boardroom that cannot be de platformed and it is here that we discussed the future of podcasting, podcasting that is now everything going on a podcast index.org a namespace and of course all the happenings of podcasts index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in

it's always a race to get that last bite of food swallow for you and into the intro. Say my name because I'm like I'm like chewing like a furious maniac

you know, we could we could always just wait until you're you know until you're done and then you know then start the show is really not a problem.

By the way I get down to it. We get we gotta we gotta move.

We got got stuff to do baby got stuff to handle. And we got a guest today as well. So there's lots going on here the podcast and 2.0 show. And crazy enough. When it rains it pours. You brought clips and I brought clips. No, we both brought the clips. No, no, we did not bring the same clips. And today, I'm going to step aside and say, Dave, first of all, how you doing? I doing, brother?

I'm good. Yeah, what

you've been working on even working on anything.

That wasn't on a roast beef sandwich. For the last 12 minutes.

How's the office? Is the office okay, everything good with the office? The office is fine. Yeah, not too bad. Oh, good.

Yeah, yeah. We everything's going good. I was very grumpy last week.

What during the show? Well, no, I thought I thought I thought I brought you I thought I lifted you up a little bit near near the end there.

Yeah, this is a much better. This is like back to normal baseline Dave, this week. I'm feeling good. A figure, you know, figured out what my issue was last week. The the enemy had invaded and thrown a smoke bomb on me. That's exactly what it was.

When you started wishing gonorrhea on people I knew something was off. This is not this is not mobile, not to Dave Jones. And by the way, the AI transcription service got caught it it spelled gonorrhea correctly. Was very

lazy it can it can it spelled gonorrhea. But it can't spell Johnson.

No matter how many times I correct it. It's aI it's great. It's exactly what oh, man so my have a start nine pro here in the in the shack.

Is this the start nine that won't run helipad, because I haven't done my thing. No, no,

no, it's run Hello, Pat. I just couldn't upgrade. And in fact, Aaron, PP cut me a new I guess there's an APK. I think, oddly enough, he caught me he caught me a new whatever it is. And so I upgraded so I'm now on to a new whatever it new whatever it is, and it upgraded I actually had to had to delete the old upgrade path. That part doesn't work. So I had to delete and then side load it and works perfectly. In fact, I've am trans it's so stable. The Start nine as a Bitcoin node as a

As as as one has as an umbrella. Yes, as the surface lineup is known to do

yes, as the combo surface umbrellas. It's just not a good combo. Really. That's a terrible, you know, and then if it freezes, and it comes back up, and you have a new logical drive, and you have to remove Docker containers, and you know, it's a whole pain in the butt. So the start nine is beautiful. I mean, you know, some you can throw it against the wall just rebooted. It's kind of Mac like in that way just works. And they released that chat GPT and defusion for the start OS. So

It makes so much sense. Yeah,

yeah, it's just but I guess for writing, you know, some things it's used. But anyway, it's just, it's, I'm really blown away by the, by the robustness of the Start OS. But then, of course, particularly, the start nine pro because it's, I think it's the purism hardware, as good, it's just solid, I'm just making me very, very happy. It runs all his run runs everything. Well.

So the LLM is run. It's, you're saying it's passable? Like it can get the job done in a pinch? Like it's not going to beat you? Because it's not, it's clearly not GPU accelerated? No,

no, but it's all it's not slow. It's not slow at all. It's not as fast as GPT three, you know, the chat dot open ai.whatever.or, that that goes faster. But result wise, it's, it's the same, I mean, it will give me the same bad results.

Just a little bit without much waiting. Yeah, just

a little slower, just a little bit slower. There's not too much of a problem.

A buddy of mine runs a has a decent graphics card of his, you know, $500 graphics card. And which is not unreasonable in that market. I mean, that's that's pretty normal run of the mill. But anyway, he he has that it's got a think 16 gigs of RAM on his onboard on the card. And that is

Oh, you know, and yes, you know, yes, it does. It does scripting very well. You know, I've done some shell scripts. Oh, very by the way, it's the it's the pure not the Pro to start nine server pure. That's the one that it is. Yeah. Oh, you're scripting it does. phenom. I mean, I've run a couple of scripts, just simple. By just I'm just looking for a shell script into something very easy because I can I can look at a shell script and go, Oh, I get it. And those work. Those work

It's so good that for us. So like one of the this this sort of is not a secret project. But it's just one of these things I'm working on that I was going to talk to you about later. Is it required? So do you remember limit?

Is this where we say in the board meeting? Yeah, we'll talk about that offline.

Oh, Lord, no. Yeah, pretty. I don't we really don't have any. Really,

we don't even talk at all. This is this is this is our weekly chat. That's true.

But the I mean, I go ahead to bed, so I will paste me. Let me just paste this into the chat into this even into the chat chat into the IRC

or Oh, okay. All right. Do not execute whatever code Dave is about to paste everybody do not execute it. Whatever's going on, do not execute. Just go

ahead and pipe it to bash it'll be fun. Okay, let's see if this is gonna see if this is fun, because it may crash thing.

So this is AI code that you've

ran on is not a no.

This is Oh, do you see that? When I see that? Yeah, let me hit that. I'm gonna hit let me let me hit that. Hit it Radio dot book. I'm not gonna mention the URL. Let me see. Yeah, okay, because it's not coming up yet.

Not coming up.

Should it be an HTTPS? Is it

No, it should not be HTTPS.

Well, that shouldn't it's not coming up here from me.

Hmm, let's see if it comes up for me. I may have just given everybody a false hope.

Thanks. See, I got can't be reached.

You need to do to

does this. Does this as port 8000 That's the idea here.

Huh? Well, that's not that's not working. Well, what I was

saying Thanks for Thanks for nothing. Is a real downer. Now like what were you working on? On one stream some kind of stream of some some sorts. Oh

Mita says he's here in something. Okay. But it's evidently not working for some people and some

people it is work. Could there be a block here? I see.

Like, I've noticed this some browsers just God, they do not want to do HTTP like, Oh, no kidding.

No kidding. Let me try this browser. I got another browser here. Well, if metus could hear it, then something's working.

Or what actually worked pretty well. Oh, here we

go. That whatever that is. You got it. Yeah, I use the I use my Tor Browser. Funny enough.

Okay, so what this is,

let me guess. Is this the top 100 Playing in real time?

It is not the top 100. Okay. It is. Oh, is a

combo of all the music podcasts? Yes. I love it. I love it.

It's basically value for value radio. So all if you have a DJ show, the other music show. Yeah, it'll show up here. It will be it will begin to play through this ice cast server.

Now how do I how do I send boost to it?

That's That's why That's why That's why

it's a test. Yeah. Okay,

so here, here's the here's the here's the deal. So Jen, Jason, over what's his? What's his buddy's name that that works on podcasts. Get Ready With

almost breaking the chains of music tear

dressers? That's

nice. Okay. All right, Jason. Jason, what

is it? Jason? I can't remember his name. Alex. Maybe? over it. Podcast podcast. Yeah. Yeah. So they want to support live that your time splits? You know? Yeah. And we don't. So Steven B created that live the way he's doing it now. Is he's doing it with a lot with a socket, the web socket io WebSocket. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not actually web socket. socket.io. Okay, I'm gonna stop and which is a, like a hosted socket. Socket service. So he's, he's, he created that just to

different a different block is active. Let's put it that way. Yeah, yeah.

The wallet squishing technology has activated.

That's catching on that wallet. Switching technology. Everyone's using it. Yeah. WSD Yeah, I love it. It's actually M ws T magic wallet switching technology.

So he, so he brought that he brought that to life. But it's not as it's not documented anywhere. It's not a standard. There's no nobody else knows how to do this. It's just purely a curio casters flip case, but kids

kind of just kind of works in the in that in that environment? Yes, I use it regularly.

It is the nonmagical wallet switching technology. It's basically the hidden the cloaked the clogged wallet itself. So we so I figured this would be a way to if I bring up a 24/7 lady radio stream of all the DJ shows. Yeah. Then we can use that as a as a sandbox in order to hammer down what how we do this. This? Yeah, what socket protocol needs to be okay. So we is oh, so I'll just bring out whatever we decide. I'll bring up a socket next to it. Then we can figure and then I'm going to

Wow, this is exactly what I was talking about. Unlike the last booster Graham ball. I said someday in the future. I can envision dot dot dot. I said a 24 hour stream of music shows and youth and here it is. I didn't even ask you this time. You just

didn't even hear you say that.

This is how good we are. This is how good we are day we don't have to talk to each other.

The VA Vulcan mind meld has reached his full maturity.

This is what no agenda stream needs as well. I mean, this this is this to be able to do this on any ice cast server. It would be a huge deal. Huge deal.

Agreed. Agree. Yeah, we need a standard protocol socket protocol for this. If so, you know the first thought I had was it was doing what you said originally was like, just playing all the songs. And I'm like, You know what, but that's not a radio station, the radio station, as DJs has shows exactly as shows, yeah. And then it solidified it when when I heard sir Libra say, on a podcast index dot social that he had not made very much been a boost may not very made very

Yeah. Now this is exactly this is what I want. I want to get in my car. I want to just flip on my, my toilet scroller What has my wallet set up and, you know, I've got 200 SATs a minute or whatever. And I just want to continuously be listening and drain my wallet while I'm listening. And I want the websites to go to the DJs I want the staff to go to the artists. That's exactly it.

Cool. Okay. Beautiful.

Well done. I love it. I love it.

I gotta get I gotta get the SSL or the TLS stuff figured out. Yeah, like I said, it's not ready for primetime. So I just want to that's why I only put it in the chat because I didn't want to like you know, get a bunch of hammered on the hammers on that URL.

I'm excited. I'm excited. Can I use your ISO?

What I said, Oh, yeah, go for it.

This feels good. Yeah. Look like the perfect ISO to me.

So far. It will always. Yeah, okay. That's what I've been working on. I had to learn icecast and easy stream. Yeah, that's

about it. That's not trivial. It's not trivial. Very nice. They're very nice.

I forgot what, oh, I don't remember why I brought this up. I remember now. Okay, so the the point was that Do you remember this little program that I wrote called sucky?

Yes. Yes, I do.

Okay. So it all it does is sucks down you give it a feed URL and it looks it parses the the podcast feed, and then sucks all the enclosures down? So it's just basically an archival Yes, you just give it a feed in at archives.

That was one of your more appropriately named. Scripts sucky?

Yes. Yes, sir. This sucks. Yes. So that's, I was sucky forms the, the, the, the bedrock of the vif value 27 24/7 radio so because it has its it constantly polling feeding

and continuously pulls in the new show?

Yes. So you give it the list of feed URLs and then it's just constantly just going in making sure it's up to date and it's got the latest shows and everything and

doesn't doesn't replace so so. So it's playing like booster Grand Ball number eight now, when number nine is available, just automatically swap that out? Or does it keep eight in for a while does it have multiple what is it doing?

Perfectly it's it's the shuffle setting and easy string.

Okay, I love it. It's fantastic.

Yes. So they but as I was looking so sucky has a very, very tiny program like, I don't know, couple 100 lines of code doesn't take much in rock. It does. Actually, you can suck with very few lines, very few lines of code. But the is as I was, as I was looking at this, this is written in rust. And I was I was looking at it I was like, you know, I could have probably written this whole thing with an LLM.

Yeah, of course.

Just look at the structure of it. You're like if you just say, give me a rust program to download an HD no a RSS feed a podcast feed in parse it and download each attachment one after another hears about you, which

is what I said write a rush script to download mp3 from a podcast RSS feed. Perfect. We're waiting. It's got three dots. It's going to do well I mean a very Small model actually, I've been the Marx three B. Here we go create an account on a website like Libsyn or Feedburner. That allows you to create an RSS feed for your podcast download a script called RSS reader. Oh, this is not writing me a script. This is giving me a script to read on the show. No.

I wonder if it's because you use the word script instead of like something like source code.

Okay, that's right. Let's try that. And otherwise, I'll try to write rust source code. Otherwise, I'll try different LM while we're while we're doing something else.

Our guest is proficient at rest. He could have probably already written this program and the time it takes to type it into

the Why don't we bring our guest in because he's it's not like he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to all this stuff. I mean, he is kind of bleeding somewhat of the value for value hosting revolution, would you say? I would say I would say I think we bring him in and you know, when he can participate in everything, including listening to our clips, because we got a lot to talk about. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the boardroom. From rssb.com W Das.

You're a master of the pregnant. Suspense. Yeah,

very nice. Very nice. Hello, David.

It was very difficult to decide how enthusiastic you should be when entering a podcast. No, if you are too reserved, people are gonna think you're boring. And if you are doing fantastic, people are gonna think you're someone like Howard Dean.

Wait, I have this I have the Dean scream somewhere. Interesting.

Not too much. You cannot be too

narrow it is. Although the new the new one. The new scream is the did you hear that? The guy who was the witness to the F 35. Crash was

bad on taking the shave. And I heard a speech and saw that between a speech and a whistle this

guy's the best pipe you got to see this guy is phenomenal.

This almost the goat screen. This is

it is very close. It's very close to the goat scream, in fact, extremely close to WDS. Now, we've had you on the show before, haven't we? Oh, am I mistaken?

I don't think so they remember that?

Oh, man negative. Well, that's lame. And so I didn't even know that you were in London to start with. You've been there for eight years. I learned in our little preamble.

I had Yes. Yesterday was my eight year anniversary. Oh, arriving here.

Congratulations. Now do you? Do you have a British citizenship? Or are you working on a visa? What changed with Brexit?

So after Brexit, what happened? The European Union citizens, which I am, were offered essentially a scheme to stay in the UK using what they call settled status. So that's what I have now. And I essentially have an indefinite right to remain here.

Oh, that's nice, because the European Union did not offer the same courtesy to British citizens. I was in Spain. And you know, there was this little village speeches. And it had a British Polo Club at a British school and they were all closed. Everybody had

to leave? Yeah,

yeah. Yeah.

Where are you from? Originally? David does.

I'm originally from Lithuania. In Europe,

now, I must say right off the bat that my wife Tina, the keeper is half Lithuanian. Wow. Yes. Nice. I always call her a semi backup Russian. If we run out of Russians, we can always use the list of women. That'd be fine. be fine to use your guys.

Emergency bread break glass in case of lack of rushes. Yes.

So So we definitely want to get your input on on a lot of this stuff at WWE. You've built an interesting company, because I think it's I have heard an interview with you. And I think it's just you who's who's doing all of the work at RSS blue.com.

That's correct. So I do have a day job. But in my spare time, I have built ours as blue, which is essentially just attempt to bring modern standards to podcasting and offer a better experience than anything that closed source and essentially proprietary standards could offer let's say in Spotify or Apple

well, you're doing a fine job because I You're so ahead of the game that I see While we talked about it on podcast, index dot social, you even now have an on ramp for musicians for people to get their music up. And I haven't gone through the path, but I presume it makes it clear how they fill out the right fields and make it albums and since and tracks etc.

Oh, that's correct. So what do we do have an RSS blue is essentially an interface that is actually dependent on the medium you choose. So you can have a regular podcast. But you can also set the medium to music, which will interpret your podcast as a music album. So you will see the front interface where you will be asked instead of episodes to upload tracks, you will see specific fields for things like lyrics, and so on. And there is a very accessible interface to essentially enable

magic. Switching technology. That's right.

So that's the next thing I'm going to work on.

Do you have? Do you have mute? People using the medium equals music tag yet?

So there are a few albums on ours as blue. So I'll admit, while lake a is currently dominating that area, but I feel our says blue can offer a superior experience because we actually offer the full D for a model with splits. Yeah, nice and everything.

Beautiful. Beautiful.

So are you do you have integration? When you do you have integration with Albion fountains so that you could if you're a podcaster, you can switch fire up a wallet from there from the from the your UI? Or do you have to go and get all that information and then plug it in like bit by bit to write your UI. Right, right, right. So

I wanted to avoid very coupled integration. So I want to have a service RS as blue, which, like UNIX, you know, does one thing and does it well. But what I do use is these public protocols, where people don't even need to log in to essentially retrieve their details from Alby or fountain, all we have to enter is their lightning address, like [email protected]. And all of these details are essentially automatically retrieved. And I believe ours Blue was the first

sovereign feeds is use this for quite a while. I'll give Stephen Bell some props he has, he has a when you when you do your value block. It has. It has all this, you know, it has found and it has Alby and and

so I think this was adapted from ours as blue, really, because we did that. This was done last year, and I think someone from Alby essentially suggested to do the same in sovereign feats.

Okay. Yeah. You could have in hive as well. I see. I see. I see that sovereign feeds has used V for v dot app. For the hive thing.

Right. Right. Right. So I had that too, essentially. So we have essentially three buttons. B and, and hive. Yeah. But now I have a very general interface, where essentially, you just enter any blinding address. And it attempts to retrieve the details using the key send protocol, which is, you know, just like a URL. Right, right. Right.

Nice. Well, that's so cool, man. And I guess I would, I would ask, you know, I know how Dave's life runs, you know, he has a day job. And I think he sits at his desk, and is probably looking at the logs of the index and all of the servers all the time, and probably not really not really doing his his real job. Do you see? Are you able to combine this?

I mean, it's difficult. It's difficult, because I'm so enthusiastic about this project. But yes, it's a difficult thing to balance. And, you know, in the future, I would ideally want to shift the shift to two entirely, ours as blue, right to spend all my time on this project, because I feel this is just so important. And something that I'm passionate about,

how close are you? Do you think, is it just a matter of getting more customers, I presume, or would that also meet need means you have to scale helpdesk, etc?

Well, it's difficult. I mean, ideally, I would want to bootstrap to essentially have enough customers so that I can do this full time but For external funding is not out of the question. So I will see what's the best approach essentially? Make this my full time job?

What is your what's your stack look like? WDS? Would What is your was your back end? How's that built? I have to see what you're doing. But yeah, lay that out for me.

Right. So one thing I hate is JavaScript. So there is just a minimum, high five, just on the front end. But the back end is powered mostly by go. So it's a simple language that can easily manage many requests at a time, are simple to write in, and so on. But recently, I've been starting to move some of the stuff to rust. Because I feel it provides a lot of compile time safety control, it's very rich type system.

So do you think what are your feelings about go versus async? Ross? Do you think that that's, I've there's a lot of rumblings right now about async. Rust being just not?

Yeah, if I, if I could just if I could just say I totally agree. I think async rust is just a total pain in the ass.

Yeah, it is. Yeah, I knew you felt that way. That's what I brought up. Just

want to let you know, I don't know, Adobe does things. Yeah.

So what do you mean, they've? I'm not really familiar with that debate.

There's a lot of people think that is ill conceived. That is basically that there's going to be some sort of rewrite that goes on because of the interruption. Some of the assumptions. Yeah, they specifically the asynchronous part, to bring it more in line with something like go where the where parallelizing is, is way easier.

So I'll admit, I don't have that much experience of that. What I know is that Ross, for example, lacks some functionality, some async functionality in certain parts of the language. So for example, you can't you can't really do methods, like implementations that are async, you essentially just have to have separate functions that are async. But to be honest,

I haven't really familiarized myself with that part. Okay, just just just thought of it as the what can you lay out what, I have a list here on the on the Apps page of what tags you support? But this may not be up to date, what what do you have currently on 2.0 tags.

So one of the main features, as we've discussed is value for value. And again, it's one thing to essentially implement the feature. And it's really hard thing to do it well with a very easy to understand interface. So that's what I've essentially been doing for a long time to essentially perfect the intuitive nature of value for value, the fact that you can have multiple recipients of value, that they can have different splits, and that these addresses can come from multiple

I'm sorry. I know that really, what it comes down to in the hosting game is, you know, it's the tools, there's I would say a lot of customers go for pricing, and I know that you have like a base price of five or $6 a month, which is quite low. Have you considered this since you are kind of early in the game or in the early in the in the evolution of the company

I have dope, to be honest, it is kind of difficult to ensure that the company gets paid the fair amount. So if we do, for example, enable a feature of instead of you know, collecting some subscription fee per month, let's say maybe instead of doing the value split, it doesn't really guarantee that the podcasters are going to ask for that value. Throughout all the, their episodes, don't ask for value that no one is going to send that value and the company's

Yeah, is I mean, it does require a little closer communication, I would say with your customers.

Honestly, I don't think you even have to go as loose as that. I mean, so, to my knowledge, there's no podcast hosting company around that will just take Bitcoin as payment. I mean, even if you just sent a lightning invoice so there's that if you just send a lightning invoice once a month for the monthly hosting fee.

Yeah, you'd attract the right customers.

Right? Yeah. And they might be more likely for that. But you know, like, you're not saying, well, here you can have you can be hosted and then just, you know, pay what you want. You're saying, Well, hey, there is a minimum cost, and we're gonna bill you for that if you don't meet it. Each month, we're gonna min we're gonna bill you for that by sending you a, you know, like a heat lightning invoice in your email each month. And if you don't pay, I mean, we're gonna cut you off

I would send people I would send people to you, if if you did that nine, and the people I send are high quality? Of course.

Of course. Me It's difficult. It's difficult to you also don't want to appear that you're taking too much, you know, if there's some minimum monthly fee, and then on top, there's some split. You know, some people may feel this is just too much taken from what they rightfully earn.

I think you'd be surprised. Yeah, I

think I think it'd be surprised to I, I know several people who use Well, let's put it this way. I've cut people into my value blocks, and they make more than $6 a month. For for stuff they do or stuff they've done or for technology we're using they make significantly more than that. And, and you know, it's something about it Dolby das that as as a podcaster. I kind of just like forgot, you know, it's like it's just a part of life. And it hasn't Hey, my

Yes, that's legit. That's legit. Oh, hold on. Are you gonna post this in? Like?

No. Oh, no, it's not done. I'm sorry. It's still it's still producing, producing. Yeah, but it's writing. It's writing I want

you to, I want you to paste this rust or Sudan into IRC one by line and then have the boost boost by compiler.

That will, that will be cool. It's just something to consider Dobby does. I got a lot of fun. I think Dave does, too. I have so many feelings about what's happening with podcasting. You know, the podcast industrial complex, which people still believe is a $2 billion advertising market in the United States alone. I'm just I'm just blown away by the by this this statistic, which is there's no evidence whatsoever, I cannot find the money. Now I can find 100 million. Sure. Yeah, there's typecast

podcast one down to $2.11,

which is, which is a travesty. I mean, it is because the people on the inside who got options. And me when I read that they're going to you know, we're going to issue stock. Now, I think that's a that's kind of a punt. They have to restrike the options, I had to do this myself. So I know this pain, where you have employees and podcasts and you said, Okay, we're gonna let you buy, we're gonna give you stock at $3. So it comes out at eight, but you have a lock up for 90 days. So

is it $2.08 I mean, it's about to go under two bucks. This this is just as well as it is. So I heard a interview I heard an interview with the CEO left pocket.

This is a funny guy. He's kind of a Goomba. He's kind of like his New Jersey guy.

It was a great accent. Ellen, I think his last name is Ellen, but I don't remember his first name. But um, yeah. So he kind of lays out. It's this interviews with Yahoo Finance. And so he lays out a lot. I think he's, he's just laying it all out on the table here. I think he's, I think he's a fairly honest dude, about where they're going. And he's telling exactly what their strategy is, I believe,

when you make the decision to go public now.

I'm trying to hit you, and then you went off. You can't leave too much of a pause. Let's try it again. We'll cut it out. No difference.

Okay. Yeah. The he lays out the the the strategy only problem is the strategy is probably one that is not going to work, because it's been tried about 100 times

when you make the decision to go public now, and you do this via spec, why did this make sense for your company? Sure. Great question.

I gotta stop right there. So did they back into a spec?

No, no, they did not this, he's, he's wrong. She's wrong with that.

Okay, because it was a spin out from live one. So he goes over that, yeah, it was not a liquidity event. They didn't raise money. They just took a piece. And then they said, it'll be more valuable on its own. And it turns out, well, it is, it's twice as valuable as their own company, which is about a buck 25.

All right, here we go. Can you make the decision to go public now? And you do this via spec? Why did this make sense for your company? Sure. Great question. This wasn't a spec is actually the first time ever done the history, where it was a spin off of a minority stake. Apologies. So we uplisted our stock. And the reason that we did it is is and we started this process almost eight months ago, it got delayed a little bit by NASDAQ. When it finally got by the time it finally got done, we had

So rollouts, it's a roll up strategy I've done one of these

is the scoop and score, you catch them on the way down, when they're distressed, and when they're when they're looking, you know, looking bad. And you just hope that what you're catching is not a falling knife. And so she challenges him a little bit on that, because in clip two, because she's like, Hey, this is not, but but things are looking kind of rough, though. Right.

Rob, on that point that you made about where the podcast industry has been? It feels like there's a bit of a shakedown that's happening. You know, there were some big names that were acquired, especially for Spotify. We were talking about Megan Merkel's podcasts, for example, earlier today, that haven't necessarily performed. Well. Are we at a saturation point? How would you characterize the state of the industry right now? The beginning of the beginning?

I tried to guess. Sorry about that. Yeah. Sorry. No, no,

no, the you know, this is a this is a different version of the it's a young industry.

Yeah, it's only it's only 20 years old, it's young. Yes,

this is this a different version of that Oh, of that old favorite, which is nice. Not even now is not even young. We're just getting started. Like it's like a fetus.

It's so new. I mean, it's only been around since 2018. Who knows?

How would you characterize the state of the industry right now? The beginning of the beginning,

the beginning of the beginning. Now, Brother, brother, all right, we're really

in the first maybe second inning of podcasting. It's grown since COVID, from 400 million to 1.3 billion. But you know, from all the numbers are indicating globally, it'll be a seven to $10 billion industry by 2030. Oh, so you gotta go through another set,

but by 2030, the earth will be 2.5 degrees warmer, we're all going to be dead. Was that the next question? Because that shouldn't be

because of the Bitcoin.

The boiling worldly

is seven to $10 billion industry by 2030. So you get to go through another cycle you went through that first cycle, right? real enthusiasm and excitement. Now you've got to pull back because people had a data that acquired all these assets they have to they have to figure out how to run them. Yeah,

I mean, yeah. So his his thing is like we don't Ostroff was here. She couldn't handle it. Yeah, she she didn't know what she was doing. Now, you have to be able to know how to run it. Yeah, the reason they they are good at this. Yes. So in clip three, he explains their methodology.

Hey, Rob, I wanted to ask you, and we're showing some of the competitors up there on the screen or other names that are in this space? How do you get that edge when it is more and more crowded when you talk about the fact that the industry is certainly seems like it's going under a bit of a transformation process? When we talk about moving away from the massive spending that we've seen over the last several years? How do you find that niche? Well,

The hedge fund is known for their careful selectivity.

And we try to find that niche between sort of 50,000 and a half a million downloads, right, and we'll grow that now. Right now, it'd be the first time we'll have an opportunity, get podcast, and you're starting to see that come over on a regular basis, we're doing a million but we fill that niche with the Creator really needs the full support. And I think what's happened is, you know, the larger places, right for them to manage those smaller creators is really difficult. And

while he's starting to explain the problem with a podcast network, as you know, I've always said you can't monetize the network. And it's exactly that is when you have a network. Then he says manage those smaller creatives. Yeah, those are the ones who are the squeakiest wheels. I didn't get any promotion. Why is he on the homepage? How come I didn't get in on that advertising by that's what starts to spin out of control with every company in the beginning in the pod show

this this so if you read Ashley Carmen's article is either from day to day or yesterday at a Bloomberg where she goes over this guy Rosen Baum, who was sort of it was the Talent Agent behind call her daddy and a bunch of these like, big date lucrative podcast deals. She the her article explains that that is exactly what is happening right now with that with that group. They are there's now loud complaining and people are leaving because they say they only that the that

Now in addition to that, what I think the problem is with that certainly cast what i've what I've come to learn from like cast media and I have I have questions about what they did with that is then people join the network. We're gonna give you a minimum guarantee. And such a bad idea. Yeah, I mean, that's a horrible idea. minimum guarantee. That's where you go broke. And then the so there's this I was listening to pod news weekly and they were talking about the magical $4

that's the scoop and score Yeah, they're trying they're trying to scoop these like catch them right and right before they hit the dirt so that they wouldn't want to so that they could not have to pay a minimum guarantee because the distress would make them who would make these credit and I'm not saying this is nefarious it's no no no nothing just you're not accusing it's just

no one listened to me that's what this is. No one listened to me.

She asked him another question like you know, get what's yeah, there's a lot of question marks still. What's the next big thing?

I guess network podcast one going public today on the NASDAQ a spin out Um, it's paranoid to be

your best for it. It's just clipped for. Is it? Okay, so she asked him Oh, I can probably.

It seems like he got the whole interview there for some reason. Hold on. I just

feel like I don't have enough hours in the day but there. Yep. Okay, I made a little before free content. There's not enough hours in the day to cover it.

That you want me to go back a little bit more.

You had it? You nailed it. Oh, I

did. Okay. All right. Yeah. That's coincidental.

Yeah. Rob, I'm gonna talk to that I have so many favorites in podcasting. I feel like I don't have enough hours in the day. But you know, you mentioned we're still in the early innings. There's another wave coming. What do you think's gonna drive that?

Dave batten down the hatches? There's another wave coming.

Is it about the Joe Rogan style podcast? Is it about storytelling? Is it the fictional scripted content?

Let me guess, true crime? What do you think is

going to be the big catalyst to move this even further?

Okay, so predictions W das you get to predict to what is the

next wave the next wave the next big thing?

The next inning?

I feel true crime doesn't make sense because it's already so big right now. I just think they're gonna try to get even more stars on these podcasts that no one listens to.

That's a big way.

It's a great question. I mean, we're we're, we're very powerful community and network powerful driving our podcasts across each other's podcasts, using that community to grow. I think it's gonna be a little bit everything right. You know, Laura Martin over Needham always described our company from all the great things we did in music, and we're just starting to hit this in podcasting, right. I've only owned the

Very, very, very EBIT da positive, positive. That's estimate its earnings before income tax, depreciation and amortization. This was for all your costs.

The reason for that is we've got the team in place we got the management, we're starting to hit that critical mass and you really don't need any additional infrastructure. You really have no additional costs and what I see happening is multiple revenue streams. YouTube has changed the dynamics completely now. You don't have just audio you have video coming in to have and you probably

how come Rob Greenlee isn't working at this place yet Didn't you already work there it was he already he already has

awakened he left changed the dynamics completely you now video so you don't have just audio you have video coming in. Next you're going to have and you probably know you know, my background and you know winning atmosphere films and having the movie 300 And, you know, billions in revenues and Spiderwick Chronicles and Patrick Blacksburg who sits on my board and just went whoa,

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what did this guy do?

Evidently, it was billions in revenue.

He's a movie company what his background is impressive as Spider Man something and

Spiderwick Chronicles in the movie 300 is the 300

listed

my background in owning atmosphere films and having the movie 300. And did you know billions in revenues in Spiderwick Chronicles and Patrick Blacksburg who sits on my board and just winning Academy Award, we have a passion around turning these podcasts into television and film.

Oh, okay. No, that's, that's IP. That's the strategy. That's right, everybody, you make no money. But if you're lucky, if you're lucky, if you're lucky, we'll turn you into a television show where you have more chances of losing out. And

if you can hit that second window, you can have one or two, you know, one or two pieces of IP that you control and own good turn out the entire network and revenues and bottom line. And then products. Just look at what Logan Paul is trying. It's truly amazing. He uses his podcast, very much like my brother did an entourage when he used Avi own or

Oh, his brother was his brother and entourage. Evidently Ah, okay. Look at

what Logan Paul is doing with prime. It's truly amazing. He uses his podcast very much like my brother did an entourage when he used Avi own right. There really wasn't your marketing presenting it. You were just it was integrated into to the content. And if we can keep doing that you're gonna see more and more products launch from a company. I love the live side of the business. Right watching the net. You

can cut it there the next so the next big thing what is YouTube? Yeah, P IP native advertising. Yeah, pretty much the same thing is the old thing. It didn't work before but it'll work now. By the way, the stock has gone up to $2.12 Oh, I've been talking

man. Literally. I should have gone long on my twin. I think we play Five Year Old At five was five apart now. That was fine. Yeah, no, we're good. This is interesting because the clips that I brought today and David asked, okay, man, are you okay to hang out with us? Because we're just chatting a little bit here. Of course. Yeah. Okay, because this is going to be only beneficial for you because what is happening is and they didn't. I'm surprised that Yahoo Finance

And I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah. What is that? Well, so

you know, Russell Brand, very successful YouTuber also has a deal with rumble. And I think that's a you know, like a brand brand, like, Hey, I'm Russell Brand them on rumble. So they're paying him to be on rumble. Not necessarily because he brings in advertisers or whatever it he has one, one and a half million people, subscribers numbers, a number of 1.4 million on his rumble thing, which is a YouTube look like

I'm sure that Adam will probably cover it on the Friday show. He has had, he's been cancelled, basically on many platforms. And unless I'm wrong, the law used to be innocent until proven guilty.

Now while Sam, of course is correct, that is not even in play here. No one's really even talking about that. It's only about canceling Russell Brand and a very specific kind of canceling

as opposed to guilty on social media. And then the platform. Yes, I think I mean, he's been so what he hasn't necessarily been D platformed. But what's gone on is YouTube music. So in case you don't know, he's been he's a comedian in inverted commas in the UK, and he's been accused of a number of quite

This is what is happening. D monetization, but it's not even the platform's No, we're going after advertisers. Because once you go after the advertisers, that's it the platform's buckle and fold immediately, because we can't have a reputation and YouTube of course, you know, Google right away did that. But it seems like people are going after

not have been YouTube actually making that decision. It might have been the advertisers who basically said no, he's he's he's no longer brand safe. And

James says it correctly. It's not the it's not the platform, the advertisers call the shots. The advertisers call the shots they control, not the not the platform, the advertisers remember that.

But in any case, he's been demonetized from his YouTube channel where he has six point something million people. So that's quite a thing. I know that the BBC, have been sniffing around BBC News, which is journalistically independent from the rest of the BBC, I know that they've been sniffing around the podcast companies wondering whether the podcast platforms are taking down Russell Brand content. So I have been helping them with their inquiries. Oh, nice.

All right, James. Okay, so just just inquires, I understand. I'm sure you're very helpful to the independent BBC News. So they are not only looking at YouTube and, and video platforms, but they are sniffing around the BBC is sniffing around to see make sure that no podcasting companies are better be taken Russell Brand off of their networks. They've been wanting to do this for so long. And how do you think they're doing that? Well, they're gonna be doing that by

I mean, I have to say, I was listening to the news agents a couple of days ago, and they started with a clip of Russell Brand talking to Jimmy Savile.

That's actually the so that's,

that's a mental Association, though, being made. Well, that's actually been him and like one of the worst sexual criminals in British history.

And that's the second episode of the news agents, where they started with and talked about Russell Brand. I listen to the news agents. I like it. I think it's good. It's a bunch of very famous British journalists. And it's kind of a newsroom type idea. They sit around and chat about the news the way you would in the newsroom. And they are really famous. They've interviewed all the all the big people in the

I mean, when you've got a situation when you know, Russell Brand, I mean, just to take some of his digital followings. He's got 4 million on Instagram, 2.2 million on tick tock six and a half million on YouTube. And you know, when you look at some of the things that some of his followers have been saying over the weekend, in response to him, and you know, the internet isn't necessarily real life, but it's always, to some extent, a

financially lucrative. Oh, we can't have that.

You know, some of the things we're with you, Russell. I've been wondering how long it would be until they they tried to pull this card with a lot of crying emoji. I'm with you all the way Russell, they did it to Assange. They tried it with Bernie Sanders. They did it to Corbin. They'll try and find anyone they find a threat. And as we were talking about yesterday, this is where there is the intersection between media and this new media ecosystem. And politics.

Yeah, there it is. This is really about the new media ecosystem and politics. This is this is not about Russell Brand raping anybody. That's not what this is about. This is about the elite messaging system. They don't like it. They don't and, in fact, isn't on the same day, in fact that they passed the Online Safety Act in the UK, which is just funny by itself, which will be making it much easier for law enforcement to take content down. We have a dame Caroline

What an odd letter it.

And now to his credit, the CEO of rumble said we're not going to do any such thing. Whatever he does outside of the content on Rumble is what he does. Let's go back to the News agents.

I think there are places that are a few like the safety net more than that the new ecosystem to this whole idea of cancellation so

so they're they're talking about the new ecosystem. And this is a big problem for them. And they want to de monetize anybody using the new ecosystem. As we just heard from James, the BBC, journalists are now going to podcast companies sniffing around think make sure that no one's that he's not able to make any money. And the last thing you want is the BBC to say, well, you know, what, this company over here who has advertisers, they are letting Russell Brand make money? He

I was told yesterday that actually one of the platforms in which Russell Brand is heavily monetizing cabling is rumble. And it was a site that I wasn't that familiar with.

Miss never heard on the internet all the time. I never seen a rumble,

it kind of tends to serve the All right, it tends to the characters like Alex Jones and Steve Bannon and the sort of Info Wars kind of people. And I was told that Russell Brand is actually getting millions. What he does there, whether it's monetized or whether they're actually just paying for him,

there is no concern for rape victims in this woman's mind. There's no concern for misogynistic, anything. No, no, no, I'm concerned

money.

I'm concerned that this guy, this guy, with Alex Jones is of the world and the Steve Bannon of the world, that they're able to make money, this will not stand because

they find people who have exactly been shut out, if you like of the mainstream media, or shut out of the BBC or channel four, or places that no longer want to work with him and say, oh, right, let us be your home. And we will provide the following for people who don't really want to be part of that mainstream media landscape. Anyway.

So So now now we're gonna wrap this up with these guys, because they're just flabbergasted by this, they had no idea. There's a whole alternative ecosystem, which according to the BBC includes podcasts, and this will not stand.

And so actually, half the stuff is going on that a lot of people won't see they won't recognize they totally forgotten about him, right. I went on rumble last night. And it was really interesting, because Whoa, boy, what did you discover lady? I didn't know that he'd done the first interview with Tucker Carlson. At Fox News. Oh, no, not

the fired Fox News. Tucker

Carlson presenter. He's interviewed Ron DeSantis. Oh, no Republican keys, I would never, you would never know that Russell Brand was so tied in to what we think of as the sort of, I don't know, the Magga voice or the American voice.

Oh, Ron DeSantis is not all right. All right, mainstream Republican. But okay, I understand this is your bias.

And this suggests that, you know, we will happily admit, we are probably missing parts of these conversations where Russell Brand is flourishing and will continue to flourish. Whether or not the BBC removes an episode of Qi. Exactly. And that's what is I think that's what's so fascinating about this, which is that yeah, I mean, I just I was

eccentric anti Vax. Oh, I see Ron DeSantis anti Vax. These are some of the most respected journalists in the UK where they probably still Do some journalists

kooky, okay, but I had no idea really that he was this is someone I like to think, right that pretty plugged into the media, pretty close observer of the media, but not that type of media. And this is the kind of challenge to us in a way, right? make ourselves feel better by

a challenge. There we have it,

you know, thinking, Oh, right. He's been dropped by this, that and the other. And maybe it's not applicable to loads of people. But for someone like brand, it doesn't matter.

Okay, now. So just let me to wrap this up. I'm going to use another example. And I'm so happy that James had told us that the BBC was sniffing around podcast companies, because this is what journalism has become. Journalism has not become like, let me talk to Russell Brand. And let me see what's going on. What do you say about these allegations? No, no, no, the BBC independent journalism? Yes, I would. I would say BBC is world renowned for their independent

But who is this? Yeah,

who is? You know, think of him what you may that he has an event called pizza fest. And he's actually been supporting pizzerias during the whole lockdown, and he raised millions of dollars for small businesses. So instead of talking to Dave Portnoy and saying, We hate you, you misogynist. They went behind his back to his sponsors. This is Emily.

Emily, this is Dave Portnoy calling. I'm recording you right now. But I've noticed a bunch of people you're it seems like you're sending. We have this pizza fest happening on Saturday, and you're reaching out to our advertisers. And you're basically sending an email that says to the effect, Dave's mesogenic racist, do you want to defend yourselves advertising at this event? Right. I'm sorry. What's your name? Dave. I'm sorry. Who are you?

So my I think my point is made here they're going after advertisers, they can't go after the platform's directly. They're not even asking you to to deep platformed like to take him off, that just creates too much strife, no, just no money for you. And if the platform's won't do it directly, they will go to your advertisers, and that will end all these Rumble is spending 40 million a month and bringing in 20, their public company, their numbers are public, they're never gonna make

This is the what was that term with the phrase I'm trying to remember it's the the process is the punishment. This is the process is the punishment because you get just do Is the accusation of a thing? Not, you know, I know nothing about Russell Brand that he may be completely guilty. But that's not the point. The point is that but the the mere process of going through it is the punishment Yeah, because the

is why people still say we're just in the early days of podcasting, the early wave the second inning, no, advertisers want complete control. They have complete control at YouTube. One of the most powerful companies on Earth runs YouTube. Yet the advertisers have complete control over what they show. We know this now from our reasonably informed inside sources. So this is this is they want they don't want some people talking on a podcast. This no

Direct Support that this the only way that it goes. This the only way that I heard that it happened. I don't think any of these companies are making making money. I mean, podcast, one clearly is not a cast is clearly not. Spotify is not, I mean, everybody that's trying these strategies, they're not make they're not profitable. And, you know, it would be different. It would be different if we had this sort of litany of companies that have proven time and time and time again, that

Because everyone kept saying we'll do it with ads. We'll do it with ads. We'll do it with ads. We'll do it with IP we'll do with and it's just not there. But the Beauty is Todd's customers receive $10,000 in value for value payments.

See that? That's beautiful. See who that would be? Where? So do you do you put yourself in the split at all? For ourselves?

I don't know. Okay, so that's something I might do in the future. Again, you have to really communicate this, right? As I've said before, because you know, I don't want to create an impression that I'm essentially charging my clients twice. But if you really communicate the D four V model, right, yeah, I think that's totally plausible. Since I would love to,

I would love to have, you know, a lifted for, for you to be able to say, Hey, this is how much money we made for our, you know, for our podcasters. And for Tom and Kevin to say, this is how much we made for our podcasters. And Ben and Alberto to say, this is how much we made. So I would love to have sort of those stats across the board. I thought it was really, that was really open have to have Todd to, to put that

out there. That was awesome. That was awesome.

Yeah, too, because so much of podcasting. And I think, you know, we've been decrying this for a long time that podcasting is very secretive. Nobody wants anybody to know, their download numbers. Nobody wants anybody to know, their metrics, and all these kinds of things. And honestly, I think a lot, some of it is legitimate, like, you know, Todd gives that example of somebody who has to work in a day job and doing a podcast and didn't want to be, you know, it'd be known

there, it's not there. Exactly. It's just not there.

Yeah. And they podcasting 2.0, I mean, what you with a bring op three into that as well. When everything is open, there's no question marks, you just know what's working, or it's not. And it just is, it's real, it's either reality, or is not, you're living in the truth, instead of living in a bunch of, you know, shadows.

And it's going to take a while for value for value music, to you know, get our footing and know exactly where we're at. And we're already running much faster than I ever expected. But this, this is going to break everything. I mean, it already is. The beauty of it is just like these jokes, you know, they have no idea Russell Brand is making millions, he may be making hundreds of 1000s, I have no idea what he's making. Clearly, he's making pacemaking

Did it WASD? Do you have a? You know, thinking? Adam was talking about no agenda, just then. Do you have a plan? This is an odd question to ask. But do you have a plan for if a show comes to our says blue and blows up and has millions of downloads? Is that going to? I mean, is that is that scare you at all?

I mean so far. So one of the shows we host is actually quite big up so there haven't been any problems yet. So the infrastructure I use right now is really nice in terms of pricing, in terms of bandwidth. So that hasn't really been a problem at all. I Yes. Is the search part that might be more difficult in the long term? Especially if I am going to support video?

Yeah, because that do you? Do you plan to support for video does that on your roadmap?

It's something I would like to try. I feel many of people that are coming to podcasting right now, would love to experiment with video. The podcasters that have been doing this for years, seem to be less interested. And I feel this couldn't be a good opportunity to bring in new people.

So that is, so if, because that's this is that age old conundrum with with podcast hosting is, you if, if a Show Becomes too successful, then you begin to lose money on bandwidth. But I guess if it sounds like you've set everything up very carefully from the beginning, so that that's not as it shouldn't be.

It shouldn't be alright. I mean, some companies you know, they they charge of depending on how many downloads there are. But I really didn't want to do that, because we know how unreliable this is. I don't want to essentially charge people for fake downloads, or for auto downloads that no one listens to. So essentially, I just have a system where it's essentially a flat fee per month and if you upload more episodes,

cool. That's a great idea because music is really not big.

Have you looked at the IPFS podcasting stuff Dobby does

I have honestly I don't yet see what part hosting companies have to play here. I know our says.com is experiment with that. But I feel at the moment I need to focus on features that I want to implement right now. Some of which include things like music shows and valley time splits

right on can we take a little break here and play a song for a moment just to I need I need a drink of water?

Did dovie does choose the song

I did not ask him Do you have a song that you'd like to play Adobe does Do you have a value for value music song that you can think of offhand I

think you choose because they don't have anything

I should I'm sorry I should I should have asked I should have asked guests choice we do always get the wallet for the split this is when they played on booster Graham ball I like it a lot is from Mandal bro and it's called Eyes

staying up all night you will cue from your slum you will everything's green built the machines take away the nature gates in a stars by the side of a motor disease this is the life you you know you can't tell us you can't turn no you can't turn. Time went on this just feel so simple for the meet new people got the most creative be both go sweet goes to bring everyone is this is you know you can't turn up you know you can't turn away

there's something really powerful about playing a song and then hitting a button and seeing like a Rube Goldberg machine seeing it pop up in the chat room with a link to the song. Yes. That's an F, of course. This is, let me see it is currently number five on the podcast index dot top 100, which I'd like to talk about briefly. I think Dave Jones, you have created a beautiful, beautiful thing here. And I'd like to explain why. Because this is this is so perfect. I actually I

James was saying he had a problem with it, our being hourly, he didn't like that, right. That's what it

was beat well here this is, this is why I love this chart. This chart is not to be to get a gold star. I've been number one for weeks. Now, this is a discount. This is a discovery tool. This tells me on an hourly basis that something's happening in there. Especially if you roll down past the top five, even there's stuff going on that while someone's playing

Let's use a different word like It's like being the number one on YouTube. There's no

number one right what is the number one on YouTubers? Yeah,

I can't stand that guy. I'm never gonna watch a video of mine. So it does. So it's irrelevant to me.

In fact, I'm gonna start saying to people value for value. It's like oh, it's only fans for podcasts value for value music. It's only fans for music. People understand it people get it. People get it. Oh, okay. So if you have 1000 people you can get them to pay $1,000 you're a millionaire? Yes. Correct.

Dobby does don't say RSS blue is the only fans don't worry.

I won't wish no no no no. And also disagree I think they have something that goes against V four v which is you know premium content so I don't think that's the for V at all.

I don't I don't see only fans as premium content.

Oh, I don't know. I I just guessed that the way they do this is they charge some amount and then you can access the content.

No, no the way it works well yes I do. You may have to, you may have to pay something but you kind of pay what you want. That's the idea. That's the idea is you can be okay as N E and its interact. You're right. It's a bad example. It's not a good way to do it. But if someone says here's a million Satoshis mentioned my name, okay. You know,

Spencer says only fans you need to subscribe to get into so is there Spencer's or resin? Is the resident actually grant? Yes. Yes.

So he's reliably informed. So we so that's a bad example. But the idea is, you have your own community. And I was talking with Dvorak about this no one knows outside of no agenda. No one knows no agenda. People don't walk around like Oh, Adam curry, no agenda, a big podcast. No, no. Adam curry MTV Rogan? I don't you have a podcast? Yeah. Now we have a 900,000 a million people who listen on a monthly basis. That's enough. That's enough. If now if they all gave us $1 That

Speaking of supporting us you want to thanks for

Yes, let me thank a few people who have pre boosted and boosted during the show blueberries 33,333 But wait a minute, Dred Scott just came in with 30,000 boosting eyes by Mendel bro and I'm going to think it yes he did it on curio caster actually, did I stop the homie let me just check that I that I take us back to the to our block. I don't know where am I? So we're back to our block. Okay. Where am I? Sorry, I have too many windows open. Blueberry, that damn these based

I've got a I've got $500 from Marco arm and his whole

blade only am Paula Marco let us help you with your live shows. Ma'am. Let us help you. I see you. I see you saved my 18 minutes before live. That should already be signaling in the app.

automate it. I'm going to do it I'm going to automate it just just as proof of concept. Cool.

Just just just Yes. Thank you so much.

Did you get the drips got 123456 that says boost boost boost go podcasting.

No dish.

Well, that's another one that came in at 254

Oh my goodness. 20 is blades only Impala did not get that one boost boost busco podcast No, no, no, of course not. No dribs an animal

drink. Thank you. I think he has his kids up at night. Cindy boost for him so that he can sleep. That's probably what's very possible. John's ber t 33 333. Do fountain he says can't wait for V for V audiobooks. Same John.

Yeah, definitely.

We're gonna make it happen bro. He also boosted a show a piece of music which I cannot tell. That's the music we play a track we played last week with a bunch of mature rock hand emojis. A mere mortals podcast chyron our buddy 2222 through found he says Rick Beto is that YouTube musicians name another great combo he had was with Ted Goya called a warning on the future of music Yep, we played clips

Yeah, we did PLAY CLIP Yes, we did. We did.

He understands the problem deeply just doesn't know about the solution yet. Wink. Mitch D I hope that's Mitch Downey because I'm competitive.

MD we'll just call them MD from now on MD and MD MD

these bubbles that are sold through pod verse he says did the feed I detail V come through? Yes it did. Thank you, Mitch.

It's good. He's been everyone's working on their feed. TLVs Yeah, nice.

Yeah, he's got he's got another see another two here testing to vase Yep. All looking good, Mitch. Thanks, brother. Uh, Jean Everett satchel Richard 1111 through found no note. Thank you Jean. Sir Brown of London. 1948 He says a little heavy indeed. He's boosted the track. See, you got to have those. Thank you, Brian. Appreciate that shrewd word. Trick shred word. Yes, shred words. Send us 1000 SATs to

Organization all you need to do splits splits is all you need. All you need

is splits.

Okay, we're gonna get sued for that.

No, we're gonna take it all for you to Cameron 2222 Row ducks the podcast index go to the website. Dave's awesome music taste Thank you Cameron. Appreciate that Jean bein 2222 through cast ematic he says I wonder if the company they wanted the tracking prefix. The company that wanted the tracking prefix would settle for op three being added and then being able to see the data from it kind of a middle ground between no analytics and their credit and their creepy stuff.

Yeah, I mean, that's the interesting part about V for V. I mean I put all of all of my shows everything I do I send through op three to help send in some data and my contribution but I never look at it No, I look at Can I pay the rent? That's literally all I look at that's that's the value for value lifestyle.

See, Joel Sacha Richard 1111 through fountain he says Dave is spot on with the ancestral ancestral diets. I knew I was. Gene being 2222 through cast Matic says there's nothing wrong with your audio Dave. Good to hear. I need constant affirmation of my of my audio sir Shaun of the Allegheny Valley, aka Shawn McCune through cast MATIC 2029 sets. No note

say weight Lake. Yes. Okay, that's

are easily accessible to driven and talented individuals such as yourself today. DIY value agreements, interactive booster brands with fan messages and more are accessible now. Want to retain full control of your value? Don't wait. Wait has his don't wait like a day. longer as someone in homegrown hits IRC channel how to homebrew will show you the way heart heart heart. Nice. Thank you so Spencer appreciate that buddy. nega 3521 your pod friend, no note.

I love how you say his name

and I'm from I'm from Alabama. I

know that's okay. That's where I

landed beavers there's a lot of there's a lot of beaver in Alabama. Robert

I'm just gonna leave that one where it is.

I left my grandmother used to keep I'm sorry, no, my grandma and she, she lives on are live she's passed away now she lived on a lake out in about 30 minutes north of Birmingham very deep in the woods. And she she kept a 22 just sitting out on the back porch because there's every about once every couple of months a beaver would try to build a dam and clog up the work so she just she'd go out there with a cup of coffee in the morning see and you

can just see you're doing it too. And then she would would you sit in a rocking chair while she did that?

She said in afterwards and read the Robert Suzuki 11843 pod fans Thank you appreciate it no note lots he was he was streaming the show lots and lots of pod fans come through now that's good to see a lot of pod fans traffic be even our 1234 this is V for V Thank you even our source de Sena 1701 A Star Trek boosters David sounds a lot better this episode I guess he's talking about my audio Thank you source and

I gotta say we all sound great Dolby Das is using man those road guys they make good products you're using what are you using Dolby does

it's called Road NT USB

is a great great sound

yeah you don't have any interface or anything it's just straight out of the mic into the into the computer.

Exactly just a USB ports to my think that that's all that's perfect.

Bad career advice. Chad a big satchel Richards one way showing off 11111 through fountain says Dave eff walking back the Gnostic gonorrhea wishes on the Bitcoin Bros. The Bitcoin bros are ripping lines of coke off each other.

Wait, didn't we already do that one? I have a feeling we did that one. Did we do that last week? I have a feeling it sounds familiar. Don't do things just don't forget.

See? Okay. The Bitcoin bros rip in lines of coke off each other's butt cheeks while y'all Christianity

it's okay we all you know I I feel that you went from spicy pod this pod sage I feel that by by the end of the last episode you were much more lavender like

live into it just don't put it in my coffee. Anonymous 5000 SATs through pod verse V for V works. In the 60s. My wife's aunt had some success with a burger joint based on V for V until arguments with local government related with local gov related to Virginia's newly adopted state sales tax made her decide it wasn't worth the hassle. You can even sell burgers the for V evidently no anonymous 5000 says HIPAA adverse my impression of nostre fans. I did not intend to ignite nostra hatred.

Well, I know you didn't intend but as you understand what happened was not your finest moment.

Maybe I did intend to. Not entirely 5000 says he says my impression of nostre fans is that they're done with the pragmatism and want to build something completely censorship resistant even if it takes another decade before it works reliably enough for grandma. Not sure I understand their preference for BTC of a privacy coin and sure don't understand how putting one's faith in 10 Mysterious relays is better than copy paste at 10 centralized platforms. Yeah, good point.

You know what? I was gonna just say something about nostre Sure. I realize nostre has the same problem OPML house? Oh, well OPML the true outline processor Markup Language is such, I love it, it is so powerful. I use it in my daily life all the time I use all the features, like Node includes and this, there's so much that can be done. But because of early

Oh, yeah. We did the namespace for the Opium

War, when I was thinking about this Russell Brand stuff. I'm like, you know, really, you know, we need to move away from these, I mean, the idea of platforms like acts and threads, even to a degree Macedon, we just need to go back to an app that creates a feed, and that aggregates feeds. And that's how you publish. And that's how you subscribe. And you get them from people's, you know, from their servers, or maybe do it from some kind of space out there hash space, or

one day when we finish fixing podcasting will return to freedom controller. Okay, yeah,

you gotta you gotta do you got to do. I'm excited about it.

Can I say something? Yes, yes. I mean, it's such a huge problem, this whole idea of essentially aggregating content in an open way. I mean, we already had it with blogs, we even had it with Twitter, which had RSS feeds. And I feel we are against such a powerful force, all of these social media companies, they have no incentive to share the content that people post on their platforms, in an open way. So there really has to be some innovative idea that essentially

Well, isn't that exactly what we're doing with podcasts now, though? I mean, yes, we have some centralized systems. And we have, you know, podcasts index is doing a lot of the heavy lifting aggregation so the clients can stay light. But in general, you know, you could do this for blogs.

You could do that. But I guess, podcasting had the disadvantage that from the very beginning, the idea of a podcast was that it's an RSS feed, you know, if writing articles, etc. They come in many, many forms. It started at zero, I guess what you could say is that blogging, started HTML, and then adopted RSS later, whereas podcasting is RSS native from its birth.

Exactly. Fair enough. But blog, blogs, look, Google Reader was a thing. My wife had Google Reader, my wife love Google Reader. She loves subscribing to blogs, and then then Google killed it. Because we allowed it to be centralized by the Satan. By the way, I gotta I don't know why associate Todd was Satan. But I just want to give him a shout out for podcast. mirror.com I love what he's doing there. Great idea.

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a great that the inner beat. People have asked us to do this 100 times. And we've always said no, because we're not touching. We're not we're not going to touch. We're not going to make an app and we're not going to be a podcast host. That's just not that's not anything we do. And we're never going to do that. So that Like this was, this was a exactly filling a thing that people have always wanted

this. Can you map a domain name to it, though? Is that part of his?

I mean that Todd touched it let us know. I don't know,

that would be that would be the ultimate I mean, you know, so that. So I don't have to be podcast mirror.com/adam or whatever, you know, it could be. I could map my domain name to it. In fact, you should be selling domain where's the GoDaddy link?

It's got to be a CNAME a CNAME would do that.

I would. I would hope so. Yeah, of

course it hopes Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Yeah. Tone Ricker, one a one on one to fountain he says brainstorm. Now that chapters allow listener to navigate playback in many podcasts and 2.0 apps is anyone created a choose your own adventure style show? Where the host Narrator prompts audience to make a decision at various points and the listener proceeds to the specific chapter to continue. Just a thought this morning to share with the group. That's a neat idea. That's a pretty neat idea. I like it.

I don't understand that yet. What is he saying? Oh, you don't know say it again?

No, he's he's saying like layout a choose your own adventure. Style podcast. So like episode where you can like depending on is a you know, you the the character the main character gets to this decision point. Do you choose this or do you choose that? And then you click on the chapter? No, and it would take it would jump somewhere else? Yeah, no jumping to the D appropriate audio. Sort of like a text adventure game, but in audio for interest. It's pretty neat. I like it.

Hey, Kim, can we do a web app with a with a web app that creates feeds in aggregates feeds? I'm just not. Now I'm thinking we got to fix blogs to just like, let's fix social networking.

Yeah, come back. Come back.

I'm here. I'm here again. Yes, I'm here again.

Todd Cochran? Hunter 75,000.

Whoa, what's going on? Todd Cochran. Nice.

Adam. Dave, we need to start calling podcast platforms that don't have any podcasts and 2.0 implantation implementations non compliant and non certified aka PSP. Obviously, we're excited to bring podcasting 2.0 to those podcasters on those non compliant hosting sites via podcast mirror. As we talked, as we talked, we're all in more coming soon from the blueberry team. got excited to also announce that blueberry podcasters have earned $10,000 collectively since we implemented reefer V.

Okay, questions. One? Why I know it's a question for Todd. Why is it? Why is it difficult for him to do item level? Podcast mirroring? Just from a technique? It's obviously technical, but do you understand why

Yeah, I think it's because the stuff in the the items change whereas the channel does really doesn't much so you would have to go and you would have so you'd have to wait you publish your episode, then you'd have to wait for podcasts mirrored to reflect the change then go over and edit a separate set of things. Whereas with with just fee level stuff,

Oh, of course because you don't. Yeah, you don't have the item stuff to actually send it's not it's not in your original da Okay, got it. Yeah.

Yeah, I see. I see. So the you were exactly right. Last week when you predicted based on Todd's level of grumpiness that he was about to ship something.

When Todd gets grumpy ship is happening. This good

comic strip blogger 30 3015 delimiter. He says through family says always he says he Bitcoin lovers, Dave and Adam. Could you kindly ask your listeners to visit my blog at www dot CSB dot lol for my cartoons that do not feature baboons. If they have cartoon ideas for me to draw, they can tweet them to my Twitter handle at CSB. Please note that the handle is just three letters C S and B yo CSB.

Joe Thank you CSB. GSB man

always around gets monthlies here we got Trevor zener $5 Trevor I changed your feed URL for you buddy. Paul air skin $11.14. Michael Gagan $5 Charles current $5 Christopher Raymer $10 James Sullivan $10 Sean McCune the Allegheny Valley $20 and Cohen glotzbach $5. Thank you. And thank

you, Dred Scott, I see you over there on tally coin. Phil is 56,396 He says tallyho you Just just you know, he is so badass Dred Scott, he just he just sent stuff through through tally coin just to see if we're checking it. Just to make sure we're still awake. Thank you very much everyone for these value for value. For the value for value support, it

I did it took me off guard, it kind of threw it probably really

close and it posts faster. Now, I'm not sure what, what Masto hosted, could we use master host, we upgraded a couple times to be able to support search and, and just the amount of bandwidth and storage that will use all of that all of that and a couple of years of runway in case Dave and Adam fall down and decide that, you know, we're dead. So it will continue to run. We decided that we're doing we just decided that

exit strategy?

And there's also the tally coin link there. But of course we'd like you to go to podcast apps.com Grab your Marcus Marcus is as HTTPS working because Marcus owns podcast. apps.com He bought that and he's 42 I don't seem some people seem to have problem with the with the secure HTTPS. Either that or new podcast app.com Or if you wish, nude podcast apps.com They all work so function and grab one of those apps and boost us boost us and let us know when you're

missed my cue I queued you up for Nisa.

Oh, I'm sorry. It feels good. I was I was gonna play it at the end of the show. WDS. Ma'am. Anything else we can do for you? Is there anything that we can support you with in your in your your side hustle, hopefully one day to be exit decision?

Well, one of the things I probably want to do is probably chat to you, Adam. Because you have been leading this effort of doing music shows. So I really want to talk to people who are already doing it, trying to understand what is the workflow? And what can the hosting publishing companies do to essentially make this as smooth as possible.

How about this? How about this for an idea? Because people have been asking me to do this for no agenda, but I was thinking of doing it for booster Graham ball first, why don't I do a screencast of the show. So you can and then I'll do it with some of the prep time. So you can see the whole workflow. And I'll put that out on no agenda too. But you can take a look at

Oh yeah, that's perfect. Okay. Oh, I mean, yes, the live aspect of the whole thing probably adds more complication. So my first step is going to be just doing a regular show with our while switching and live shows is going to be more in the future. Have you

looked at split kit at all? Have you have you checked that out? I had Yes. Because what split kit does is forget the live stuff but the the important The important part is I mean it's it's really phenomenal. So first okay, I already know the 15 songs I'm going to play and so the first hurdle but you know I get around it is I find them you know they're all over the place but I find them through LM beads I find them through wave lake I fly you know just people send me

Right? Yes. I mean, the main challenge here is to actually unify all of the podcasting 2.0 aspects. So one of them is a valid time splits. One other thing is chapters that you mentioned. And if there's one interface that essentially does that merges things in a smart way so that people just coming into this new concept, understand it understand it intuitively, I think that's the perfect scenario.

It because basically now there's a whole bunch of steps. So basically, it might in an ideal world I would go in I'd say here's the songs I want to play, they be kind of like in a bin sitting there and then okay, I'm gonna play this song I click that song, it automatically sets the start time because I play it next song I click it same thing then when I'm done I click a box and then it spits out chapter spits out show no everything is all in place I don't even have to copy paste it it just all

I remember you did that. I remember you did that once before with nogen it's been a long time ago.

I looked at it six years ago. It's embarrassing to see the system. I was working with this. I have to do a new one. But that was more that was more just to show people how crazy it is. When John's talking I'm looking for clips I'm dragging stuff in I'm just to see the whole the whole production process is kind of funky. I mean, you see it? I got to do that again. I have a camera. I have software. I can do this. I can do this.

I would love to as trial. Yeah.

Thank you, Adam. Yeah, of course, man. No problem at all. And I'll try to do it on the end because what is it what is for you now, is it? Almost nine o'clock? Quarter nine?

That's correct. Okay.

Yeah, on a Friday night,

trying to compile that script that rush that rust script that you did a word paste it, but I can't find it now, I can't find the textbook.

And I was wondering, I had a feeling that it may not have completed yet.

It looked like it was missing curly brace.

I thought it was done. But it wasn't. But no, I hold on a second. Let me do this. Did I copy that? Yes, there we go. Watch this.

You're gonna paste it in again.

I'm gonna get sent. I'm gonna paste it to you. You're gonna set it in there. Yeah, on the signals. There it is. I mean, look, it wasn't blazingly fast. But it was sovereign. I did it on my own system. No one knows that I did it. It doesn't doesn't report army doesn't tell me any bad things. And I had no idea what rust even is. So the fact that it did that in an hour is I think is just impressive on my on my little start nine box here, that's impressive to this speaking

over us. One interesting thing I've tried a few months ago, is actually using rust on the front end. Because we have this idea of WebAssembly, which means that we can now have all kinds of different languages running on the front end of so people who would maybe want to check out they can go to tools.rs as blue.com to see what a rust front end app actually looks like. So it's a little experiment, but I might actually develop this further in the future. Oh, nice.

I think I remember you posting that. What is it?

So there are a few things. So you know, I've tried all kinds of different things with it. So one of them is podcast GUI generator. So where you just enter your podcast feeds URL, and it generates the podcast good using the right format. Then the other thing we have is slot op free, which I should probably retire because we now have all the free pages. But what it did initially, it would essentially post your enclosure URL, and it would essentially plot your downloads

Wow, it's a real time real time update. The this is not a this is not a compilable script.

I just sent you I just sent you a link. It's still writing the script. It's not yet it's almost there. It's it's slow. But it's it's literally writing it word by word, but it's doing it I'll send it to you when it says it's complete. It's a little unclear when these things are complete. You gotta go back, or you offer you back to the back. Hey, can we Okay, so I have a weird thing happening on Friday. Next Friday, Friday, can we do Thursday evening? Is it possible for you?

We can but it'll need to be late. That's okay. I've actually started rock climbing with my daughter. So we do that on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And that's okay,

because I need some time to decompress after no agenda anyway. But if we could do that, because I don't want to miss a board meeting. But I'm traveling to Houston and like everything my whole life is a mess. They've

fallen apart. Yeah, so like eight o'clock? Oh, yeah, no, that's

not late. Yeah, that's fine. Perfect eight o'clock. Alright, everybody board meeting will be eight o'clock central time on Thursday. So join us for that Dobby. Das man, thank you so much. Congratulations with everything. RSS blue.com. I always put it in the list on the booster grand ball. So people know they can can also use that for their for their music uploads. And we'll be we'll be in touch about the workflow for for creating value for value music shows.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks, David.

Thanks for coming, man. Really appreciate you being here. And thank you chat room. Thank you all so much for being here for this very important board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 We will return next week Thursday 8pm Central time see you then.

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org for more information. This feels good