Episode 122: We're Trending!

Oh, podcasting 2.0 for February 17 2023, episode 122 we're trending. Hello, everybody Friday once again time for the board meeting. That's not your end, no no. ARD meeting of podcasting. 2.0 everything happening with the future of podcasting, which of course is now podcasts index.org the podcast namespace everything happening at podcast index dot social. Yes, we are your raft of refuge in a sea of big tech sludge. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill

Country on Alabama fresh from the API. Battlefield say hello to my friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, the one and only podsafe Mr. Game Jones may have been a little too What would you call it? Like aggressive? No, no. vulnerable, too much bravado in what I could accomplish while you were doing the intro? Oh, you were trying to announce our our liveliness our lateness are put into posted on podcast index dot social. Yeah, it was great.

And it was like 401401 You're not authorized to log in. Oh, and then LastPass wants my wants my 27 character master password. I'm gonna type it in and wait a minute. You're still on LastPass Yeah, but that thing's compromised. Brah notice, but I've got a fantastic password. It's still raising income. I thought it was I thought you're getting off that moving away. I thought you were discouraged. Sad. I am. But I'm not in a hurry. I'm good. Yeah, no, no, I don't

feel at risk. But I'm still I'm actually literally still trying to log in as we're talking. I finally set up. What is that? Vault ward? No. No, not bid warden. It's the open safes on Umbro. It's an open source version. Hold on now. I gotta check it. Keep KeePass Yes, thank you. Okay. KeePass. So and So KeePass. I have an app, which is comes from the ever so trusted F droid. Trust more than anything else, of course, and then I have the server side on my Umbral that I think is okay.

I'm going to be a huge hypocrite on this. Because it has like something about the open source aspect of KeePass makes me uncomfortable. And it's not the code itself. It's not. It's not the core key pass code that bothers me because I feel I felt like that's great. I feel really good with an open source, Password Manager, like the code itself. It's when I go to install it on my phone from the App Store. And it's like, there's all these ones that are there, like KeePass apps, I'm

like, oh, no, there's all of these people. Yes. Remember, I'm running graph, you know, as I use F droid. So there's a lot you know, there's a lot of checks and balances going on. i But you're absolutely right. There's other key pass apps which look exactly the same. And it's that to me, is the honeypot right there? Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, Who are you? Where's my sir? Where's my passwords? Which server they go into? In what country? Well, I gotta wonder. I mean, for the longest time was just

kind of keeping everything in the brave Password Manager. Is that a very bad idea? The brave Password Manager. Seems it seems to be pretty, pretty. I don't hear I never hear oh, my stuff got stolen. Although autofill can be a problem, right? You can have audit, like some JavaScript or something can call for an autofill and you don't even know it and it's hidden under something and then before you know it, you know you've you bought yourself a trip to Kuala Lumpur on your credit card.

Congratulations on your travel miles. Yes, yeah, no, I think it's fine. It's just like it stores it locally. The only attack vector there is if something gets in your machine or if there's a zero day in, in the Chrome chromium core but I mean, like that's see that's the whole thing of like once somebody gets in your machine I mean, all bets are off already. Yeah, but anyway, we are lit we're living live that means the show is recorded live to tape and before his live studio

audience there at our in our chat room. If you're using pod verse, if you're using podcast addicts, you probably got an alert if you're subscribed, and you ask for alerts and you open it up you got where you get all your podcasts What do you get immediately you you got the chat room you got the the live stream, curio caster could be streaming it live with many more to come soon. And you can now see all of the new apps at our handy new URL, podcast apps.com Now, yes, podcast app. So guess

what's not on there. Oh, Apple's not on there. is Amazon's not on that Google's Spotify. No Podcast apps.com This is where you go to get your podcast apps. This is sang to you Marcus couch. Thank you Marcus couch. That had to be expensive. That's why I said don't give it to us, man. Just you keep it. Yeah, you just forward it. Yeah, I don't know. What do you paid for it? You won't they'll never tell me. They didn't give them glad. Because then you can sell it

later. Yeah. And all of a sudden it'll become become a Kuala Lumpur travel site. Podcast apps No, not podcast.com No, I know. No, no. podcast apps.com podcast.com That never turned into any good business as far as I know who is podcast.com I remember that was like, at once. Mark. Once Mark Cuban had broadcast.com and got $2 billion for it. Oh, is the podcast just audible? What is this podcast? podcast.com goes to Audible

is that audible? I podcast.com I have a simple and affordable all on one podcast hosting and management platform. Now when I type in podcast.com He goes straight as a redirect. What do you have? podcasts or podcasts? No, just with a T. Oh, okay. Yeah. podcast.com goes to Yes, of course. Audible. Yes. There you go. They should donate it to us too. Yeah, douche bags. I mean, juice sacks. Juice punctures. Audible what we're here. Yeah, we're ready for it anytime. Yeah. Ah, well

well, this base milkshake is not right. I dumped this in in a hurry. I barely made it here for the show. And I like I did like 10 ounces of milk and I was like, Oh, that's a lot of milk. So I'm just gonna dump Oh, you just you just oh no, no, no, no, now it's like a digital. It's just a big Gillette like I can't this isn't drinking this is not again there we go up to Dred Scott right away 333,333 SATs it's been so long waiting for a podcast like this Don't be

a juice pouch donate support the index go podcast. Yeah, baby. Oh, you're in Yeah. 333 threes. Whoa, it's a super magic number boost. God thank you Jared. Yeah, just fantastic. And we have a jingle for that somewhere. We have. We have a we have a drip. No, we should have a drip jingle now we have a magic number jingle magic number there you go. By the way, I've only got only brought one clip boardroom today and I mean it's you can just fire it will on that. Anytime you feel Froggy.

Oh, well, I'll hold on for a second. Okay, I won't do anything. Thank you Dr. This is of course the instant feedback mechanism that is being lit with our booster grams. Mad before we get started, I want to I want to get a little update from the battlefields last night all of a sudden you're posting about you're fighting with with some scraper or some someone hitting the API over a million times. And I have a question but first I just like to get the updated for Are you okay? Are you

wounded? Everything? Everything? Functioning? You have all your limbs still? Like a little bit shrapnel in the knee than than MRI? Yeah, I've made it through smell like smoke, but I'm alright. The No it was this. Somebody. Let me go back. Let's see the origin story. Oh, John Spurlock said the other day, maybe three days ago. He's like, hey, something's going on around four o'clock in the morning every night for like the last couple. Three.

First question. What's he doing at four o'clock in the morning? That's my question. I didn't ask him world domination. No doubt world domination. That's what he's doing. Alright, so what was going on? And it's not just last night, it's every night now, I guess or happened before? Well, I'm like, Well, I don't know. I mean, you know, our crack system monitoring technology that you know, tells me anytime there's a hiccup God didn't get an alert and alert.

Me. So this was a sophisticated you know why? Because there's not one. Oh, okay. Yeah, that would explain that. So when this happens is this does this suck up resources that a Gemini thing? Or what is the result to us? Performance wise? Well, look, I looked back and I was like, I don't know that there's something going on. And then I did with no with no information at all. I did what every good SIS admin does. I

blamed Cloudflare. I said it's probably cloud flares now. And that was just a buy me time so I could actually go and look and see what really happened. So then, I went and looked and it was like, around At times, some started like three o'clock in the morning went to about five. For the last like two or three nights and rows, it was just hammer time on the on the API. And I thought, okay, that's weird. So I look back. And I have a couple of scripts that I can run that looks at the logs

from the previous, like, 24 hours or so. It'll tell me, which developer account has hit the most, and how many hits they had over a certain timeframe. So I just ran that. And it was like some, you know, it's always the same, you know, people that it's very, it's a very, you know, a very common pattern. I mean, it's like always, you know, fountain pod first, you know, all these kinds of things. So, and then it was just some, you know, Rando out of nowhere, it was like, 10 times as much

traffic as anybody even close. I was like, Okay, this is this is out of control. So it was some rando Gmail address with a bunch of numbers, and no, you know, no constant, you know, no vowels in it. So I just deleted that guy. And then he comes back under a different Gmail address. Like yesterday, and same guy random. Now you are assuming gender, which I think is very dangerous. If this was a woman, I would actually love to know that

because that would be that would be a first. I've never seen a NFC I've never seen a hacker, like any of the mug shots or any of these arrests that Europol does, where they do it and never seen a woman in any of these groups. That only happens in the movies. There wasn't literally in hackers, the movie Hackers, it was our matrix. Yeah, checks. Yeah, we're in the matrix. Exactly. Yeah. How disingenuous is that? Can we get that to happen, please? Because really, that's

great. But it is whoever this woman was that intro started hammering the API came back, no different by hammering, sorry, as in and just let us have it again. This time, three and a half million requests, oh, about an hour and a half. But now this isn't I presume this is not a denial of service request. This is just someone who doesn't know that you can actually download a copy of the database.

I believe that's always what these are. In woman though, even though it says in, I put in the API response, the win rate, limit them the response, you can download everything, yes, with a link to it. And they just keep going, just keep going. Oh, man, that's now what do you think that they're doing this for? I mean, I would first of all, if anyone's doing this, I presume most of them are trying to get email addresses. That seems to be the the main I love the people who try to encode

podcasts. index.org Hey, hey, you know, I'm I'm experimenting with something funny. I can't get the email addresses. I'm just just a little guy over here. Just doing a little thing on my Raspberry Pi. You know, I noticed and I noticed the email addresses are missing from the responses. Am I doing it wrong? Email address is like Joe Joe at podcast marketing.com or something? Yeah. I think we have mitigations in place, which I do not want to speak of. I do not

want to give give our adversaries. This top is classified information. Yes. Highly, highly classified. Oh, man. That's too funny. Well, I'm sorry. You had to go through that. But it is what it is. But people please. The we should we should put it somewhere on the website. Hey, don't put her up. Right. If you want to use our API to scrape just download it. Here you go. And by the way, send us a donation. Juice pouch.

I'm digging that that's dred Scott's we're like I'm I'm digging that his kids aren't allowed to say douche bag at home. So they use juice pouch, which I think is is a nice PG version. Well, when my when my son was little he was like, I don't know if four five, something like that. He said something happened. He said, Oh my God. And Melissa and Melissa was like, don't grant don't take God's name in vain. Don't do that. He's like, can I say oh my mouse? Yeah, sure. Sure. He's like, cool. Every

year. Yeah, we just looked at each other like, weird. Well, it was it was a rough, actually kind of a rough week for for servers for us. The podcast index node. Yeah, channel pocalypse is what this well yeah, I'm gonna I calling it the nostrils. Zap zap crash. Okay. So I noticed I'm not even sure exactly what I noticed. Now I noticed channels went down which is not a crazy thing because the

Lightning Network just seems to do this from time to time. And I got I got a post or an email Hey, man, what did I do wrong? Why did you close the channel on me? How can I improve my behavior? My Why do you talk to people in websites? What? Right? When, when a when a lightning node closes, and it has forced closed, which I don't think I've ever forced close to channel ever, ever. But you get the message force close and I get

forced because we both get it on each end. And then people take offense to that, like, Hey, man, what do you do? It's an aggressive name for force close. Yeah. Yeah, you're right, it is kind of aggressive. And when you do a force close, then the predetermined close amount comes in action. So there's a timeout, which also can be, it can be a week, in some cases, usually, it's a day or a couple of days,

I tried to set it reasonably low. But this was at the same time that the Bitcoin transaction fees were in the high teens and low 20s. Because of this nominals with this ordinals mining business. Now, people are like, Oh, I'm going to encode something into the blockchain on this set. And so the blocks are supposed to be one by one meg in size, and they seem to be encroaching to quite regularly. But the next block

over will be 300 500 megabytes. So So yeah, so the transaction fees are just by the way, my two little miners here at home, I'm doing two bucks a day. I'm rockin and rollin here, I'm printing money. And this is, I looked into this a little bit, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the ordinals thing. Well, let me get through the ZAP zap crash first. Alright, so um, so Now luckily, we host this node at at voltage and I love what and we've had it there from day one. And Graham is the man

who does not sleep. It doesn't matter what time I ping him. It could be you know, three in the morning 9am 11 At night, he's always there always. And I don't understand how he does mean either mean either. And this I think this is in the morning and I see like this 40 channels close. I'm like, Oh, what is going on? So and in this just in just to try and get into the node was something like thunder hub is a lot of joke at this point. And the thunder hub

just crashes we it's we have so many transactions. It's so we had a 16 gigabyte size database. So I say to Graham said, Hey, Graham, man, I got a whole bunch of force closures. I didn't do anything. And so we're looking at it together. And he says, Huh, says well, why don't we just restart it just for good measure and see what see what comes back up this thing? After an hour, it doesn't come back up. So now so now every every sysadmin knows the trickle of sweat down your butt crack at

this point. Oh man, and you know, it was What day was it? It was was it maybe a Monday? It was Sunday? No, I came on Sunday. Now it was a Monday because I knew and I noticed that too. You know my one of my pod father unbel node went down which is not irregular but okay. But also my other node which I usually use to secure backups everything transpires the node my own bro, mambo got stuck here at home too. And I had to I had to reboot. Yeah,

exactly, exactly. So this was a little uncommon behavior that the nodes were literally trashed. So, so now Graham's like, alright, well hold on a second. He's like, let me make a backup on my end. Now I'm now my browsers is like wet. Oh, it didn't say the B word. Because we know we know, we know how fragile all this stuff really can be. And ultimately, I think Graham has, he can do a lot on his end. But like if we if we lose the password, we're

screwed. I mean, there's no way you're not bringing that thing back up. He has no access to that. So and then we go into compact ng mode. And it's three now but and that's midnight, and I give up. And it's our it's been going for three hours now. And so this node has been down almost all day. And I'm not I'm not having a good time. And so comes back up in the middle of the night, of course not functional because at 3am I had to unlock the node which I couldn't do because I was

asleep. I had to go to sleep. And then I just didn't hear that I did have my phone on but I didn't hear the ping from Graham. So like 6am I unlocked the node. It's coming back I have great the database has shrunk. We've compacted from 16 gigabytes to eight. By the way. How sexy is this Tech Talk come out of my mouth huh? EMR. I'm gonna go back and listen later. So we're like, okay, trying to figure out what's going on. And Graham says, wow, there's like, over 150 channel closes last

night or yesterday across the Lightning Network. And we start investigating. So what's going on? Well, turns out that damos, the the Jack Dorsey endorsed Jack and Dorsey noster app released this zap functionality, which I'm a little confused if it's ln pay ln URL payment system, or if it's key send, I'm

not quite sure. But I know what happened is we have so we we have typically about 100 Plus channels open to a lot of smaller nodes, which were which we love doing, we love providing the liquidity, which is everything that comes into the index node is turned around and is used for liquidity to anybody who needs it. Basically, we've had as many as like, 145 channels open pretty big. Yeah, it's been very now that well, that definitely got cleaned out. With that, so here's what happened. Cuz Graham

would, you know, Jesus, I think this is related. And then he started digging in. So this was a beta release from from damos. The app and one bad HDLC can really screw up the note. And as it turns out, we got a lot there's a high correlation between people who are connected to podcast index or their node and who also use noster. Of course there is and so so there were tons of, of zaps as they're called flowing routing through our node and at least one but probably multiple HTL sees the

hash time lack of time lock. What is the contract contract? That were either bogus or corrupted somewhere? I mean, something is something went wrong. And that crashed our node hard. And I think actually, Sir, sir, sir Pate, I think in in the Netherlands. Let me see. He said, Oh, yeah, I had my Nasr stuff hooked up there was a lot of fun. Why did you Why Why? Why did you close the my channel? Is it Why didn't close it? Cost Palin. There we go cost Pinto? Yeah. So and he's like, oh,

yeah, he ran late. Yeah, he ran it last weekend, he had to nostra relay, you know, just a whole bunch of a whole bunch of stuff running on routing through us. And I'm not saying was his node specifically. I don't know. But but it clearly was a noster. This zap thing that just that just totally, yeah, totally screwed our node. So I've been very slow to reopen channels, I'm waiting for people to come on and say, Hey, you closed my

channels. And no, I didn't. It happy to open it up. But please don't use it as your nostril recipient node, because it's just crazy. And there are limitations. You know, there's limitations on stuff. And we had another. So one of the problems we had, which I found out as people were trying to send booster grams to carry in the keeper, which, like comic strip blogger is one of them. And he and he was getting errors on on my note, which at this point was reconnected to podcast index.

And he was doing it from fountain and he was not getting through to me. And so I do some more digging turns out one of the channels that closed which doesn't surprise me, I'm sure lots of people were using their fountain address as the place to you know, to zap to I think, yeah, just think, you know, they would I mean, I would think

so yeah, I would think so. So that channel got closed, and then whatever routing there was, and they were so intermittent that, you know, on the day that we do our show every 14 days, on the day that we do the show, people were trying to boost from fountain booster grams, and they were failing. And those are just the ones that who noticed it. So huge cacophony. And then we started looking into it. Anyway, Oscar opened up a new channel to us. So that's good. It's just all fragile. It's really

fragile. And it was it was nuts. And honestly, I don't think noster is worth the trouble at this point. Because I have a couple apps with noster now it's like, oh, really went offline. I have a 1500 followers today have 273 You know, it's like, oh, yes, that 300 You know, stuff doesn't come through it. The it's not primetime yet. It really isn't. If it ever will be in this use case of like a Twitter. I'm not so sure. You know, listening to what Alex Gabe said was who by the ways?

He's 31 he's not he's, he's I thought he was younger. Why do you think I'm a Zoomer? Aren't you 24/7 Oh, no, man, I was old is your daughter? Oh, that makes me feel good. Thanks feel much better. I think the I don't really understand the use case either. I mean not noster for that you implement it, I can envision it certain things it'd be in good for but like that we have Mastodon and activity pub and these open. I don't understand why this is really a thing. I mean, I don't ask it for, ya

know, we're asking for a lot of hate. So I'm not really interested in a lot of hate. And I mean, I'm on it, you know, I'm, I'm along for the ride. I'm interested. I'm trying to get it to figure it out. And the experiences vary all over the map, you know, unless you're on damos, which I'm sure it has their own relay. And, you know, but that's kind of a closest, and if you're out on the edge, you screwed. Well, Spencer said, if an HDLC gets stuck and expires, all the

channels along that route will close. There you go. It's an Automatic Pro. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's exactly what what Graham said, if it expires and everything along the route. That's right. That's right. So I mean, on the on the ordinals thing, though, before I get to that one last bit, one last bit of data. I asked Graham, is there a limitation? To how many key send transactions you can do at one time? I say, is there a, is

there a limitation, the server limitation? Or is there an it turns out, per lightning channel? There's a limitation of 428 in flight H TLCS. At a time. That's the protocol limit per channel. It's unlikely we hit that unlikely we will hit that. But it's I mean, it could it could easily happen from from a channel like fountain. If you have 428 Fountain users all sending a key send at the same time. Yeah, it could happen. It could have for sure.

And that tells me that that tells me that for for the big channels like like fountain or LNP? Or we should be we should have multiple channels channels. Exactly. Alright. Ordinis ordinals? Yeah, so the ordered, like interest in general, I kind of want to know your general thoughts. But it to me, to me the this idea of using the side of using SegWit as sort of this freaky side chain thing

is I don't think it's a side chain thing. Well, I mean, in quotes, I mean, it's definitely it's the way that as that I read about it being described how it was working, it used that term in quotes, but I mean, it is sort of a, you're stuffing that transaction into a places is really, I mean, by by

protocol design, it could get you know, it's fine. But like you end up with, so what are we supposed to do, we're supposed to end up with blockchains that are gigantic, that we then go back and purge all this stuff out of now. That's the way I understand it. And I'm probably getting this wrong, I thought it's more like new mastics where, you know, oh, this is a very rare Satoshi it's the it's the 33rd Satoshi in the

block, or something like that. And you can mark that and then you can, you can say, all right, or you can claim it or you can tag it somehow you can put a URL in there, which of course, is why that you have to pay for that the more data that goes in, and then you have you know, just like the just like NF T's you know, there's some other not on the blockchain thing that has a

frog picture or something that relates to that. And it's, you know, I think it's just and I think it also seems to be shaking out a little bit that you know, all of these shit coins are literally shitting the bed they're you know, SEC is after the everything's closing down it's you know, the just a lot of things happening with with alternative blockchain

related coins. And it seems like no, oh, let's do this on on the Bitcoin Blockchain, which, from what I understand taproot actually enabled it did that yeah, that's that's how understanding as well, but you know, the, the way that it was the way that it was described in found a pretty good article where they were just

goes straight through it. And I mean, it's not a white paper, it was just a description, but I mean, it read to me as if, oh, don't worry about this block size, these block size increases because this is all just purgeable data anyway, for any for people who are not interested in this specific transaction in like, you can just you know, it's, you don't you don't need to retain this because it's just part of this, you know, extra space that this thing is taking advantage of.

You can purge that out of the actual the transaction room mange in your in your database, we can purge out the other stuff that's been jammed in there. Yeah, that was my understanding of it because like you mark this market UTX Oh, and then you have this this SegWit space that is being stuffed with this inscription kind of like our TLVs in a way. I think I think so. Yeah. Much more Mia, but at the base layer and a whole lot bigger. I don't know, I feel like we I feel like

Roy will have all the answers to this. Well, I like seeing that really. It's like, okay, Bitcoin just goes, Okay, whatever do that. And then it basically an attack. The way I see it, I think it's an attack. And Bitcoin goes okay, it'll cost you more. There you go. You paid now it sucked at the minute This happened for us because closures as channels didn't close because it wasn't enough predetermined fee. It's

expensive. It's expensive to open channels. But that I've seen that even out quite a bit over over the last couple of days. But wow, you know, holy crap. That's just it just it's amazing to watch what's going on. We live in very interesting times. Dave Jones? Well, lots of things. I think it's worth saying this. I mean,

lots of things. The fragility that you see in a lot of these things, there's a in like lightning and this sort of, there's a lot of stuff, a lot of technology that is just that is easily this fragile. Oh, yeah. But you just don't see it because it's stuffed in a datacenter. Somewhere, like this

is all just playing out in public. But I mean, we, you know, people in this at a sysadmin level deal with this source of all the time where you where you're like, you're trying to put a new technology to use and it's got some real funky stuff with it that has to be worked out over time. I mean, it's just that this looks, it just looks, it probably looks

more scary than it really is. On the outside. You know, what the one thing I enjoy about the noster experience, though, is that people have an of course, we know how this works. People have substituted likes for zaps. So someone likes what you wrote, then all of a sudden, you get 1000 SATs from them. I've gotten 10,000 from people before. And that is kind of really broken. Because I don't know, it's my setup, I guess. I

don't know who's sending it. It doesn't show up in Albi who sent it, because that's that's the that's the address I use for that. But it's kind of fun to see people parting with value in that way. But at the same time, you know, they'll post donations don't work here have had 1000 sites. My my thinking on the Bitcoin space in the space of all this

from the beginning has been like anything that we can do. As a we loosely just mean in general, anything that people can do to make people part with with their coin and spend it instead of just this sort of like, I don't know, toxic huddle thing where I mean, yeah, I mean, sure, hold hold hold on to your assets. I'm not saying that but I mean, like the the the problem with Bitcoin for a long time with the culture of Bitcoin has been people are

not people don't spend the money. So you're sort of like

feeding Gresham's Law by by not doing anything. And so like, if we can get people through booster grams, or, you know, zaps or whatever, I mean, as long as as long as the thing that we're doing is to get people to, to actually transact with this stuff, and we can so that the mechanism of price discovery, and it can form a market the problem with Bitcoin is it's not financialized like there's there's a lot of things that you wish you could do with Bitcoin, there's just no way to

do it. There's no financial instrument or facility to do things with it. So like in order to make that happen, Now, step one, like the first step you have to take is to get people comfortable with actually spending it. And so I think that any of that stuff, ultimately, maybe the protocol isn't, won't work out or shake out, you know, the way people hoped. But as long as we it's more of a mind game to me, it's about getting people to actually be okay and get used to spending this stuff.

Well, the way I see it, you're soaking in and maj because podcasting 2.0 I mean, what what's happening is people are receiving, they're earning in Satoshis they're re spending it on other podcasts. I use I've connected my my Alby wallet to pod verse, which is great because I have oh man I might

have 2 million SATs in there now. And that's really just from you know, bits and pieces coming in because that's that's a 1% split on the shows I do and I've had it for a while but you know, I use that the other day to to pay for some holy cow beef you know, they're they're coming through town to go into Austin and an always sends me an email she says Hey, we're coming through anything you want know I ordered some breakfast sausages and some chicken thighs which they have and I can't remember

all this I'm tallow thing, it was like 96 bucks. And, and she just sends me she knows me. So she just sends me a QR code through ibex, which still is not doing Kishen. And, you know, it's just like copy, paste, boom, done, you know, and it felt good. And it was from my earnings from earnings that I that I got into into my wallet. And so it really is happening. And I agree, whether you do the podcast in 2.0 is a great place to transact was a great place for people to get comfortable

with it. When you buy it, you know, the hodler Sure they buy it, however, they're buying it from an exchange. And I can understand why you know, that culture is still there. But things like podcasts in 2.0 things like the beef initiative and and noster are changing that culture. And I think it's very it's a very positive development. A real market. A real currency has holders as savers and spenders. Correct. You can't it can't just be one or the other. I heard

her James Cridland is taking all the SATs. I've boosted the pod news weekly review with and he's going to buy drinks for everybody at Podcast Movement. No, which would be it would be it would be better if he was paying for those drinks with Satoshis. That wouldn't be bad. I wonder if they if they have clothes, if they have those Clover Point of sale terminals might that might work. Yeah, we can put you know. What is it to Cash App, strike, strike, strike, strike, strike. There

you go. Yeah, they're doing that partnership thing. That would be cool. And then he said you could go button right here, boom, right in there, which I was okay with bunnies like, and then we'll have to invite British people. I'm like, No, I didn't donate for Brits. No, that's no good. We fought a war for that. So before we bring in our our fellow board member for the board meeting today who's been waiting in the wings very patiently. And I have a heart out by the way. I got a heart

out. I love Hey, got a heart out at like, three o'clock. I have an oral emergency procedure taking place today. You can you can hear me slipping at all. I don't know if that's a little bit. It's not it's not terrible. It happens. When I get more tired. It's worse anyway. There's some it'll only be sore for one or two days. Okay. That's like, I don't. My first wife had some plastic surgery done several times. And like that phraseology. She has some plastic surgery done several times

I paid for that Miss Potato Heads anyway. And it was always the same. There'll be some bruising for a couple of days. Lie. lie. Lie. Weeks. Yeah, exactly. So our guest will be in a in a moment, our fellow board member, I just want him to react respond to all of the negative Spotify articles that are that have been out there. I think two big ones really, that the people are talking about. And it's you know, it's about the bets not

paying off and all this stuff. So at first, I wanted to say that, you know, when McKinsey came to called me to interview me for the research they were doing for Spotify, podcast strategy, I said, you cannot monetize the network. Now, I don't know what McKinsey did. They probably didn't put that in the final product. And I thought and this is my I mean, it took me 10 years and $65 million to realize that it doesn't work.

And it's truly because of the decentralized nature thank thank you thank God for RSS for thank you all to all the hosting companies big and small alike who are still there. Most of them still they're very impressive. This is the main reason and I think the protection you and I built in initially with as our as our mission was the the ability for independent developers to develop on a database that that didn't cost anything that they had influence on by being a part

of the of the community. And and for them being able to participate in the money flow. Those two things were set up from the get go specifically with value for value so that the developers and other parties anyone who is doing something can participate in the value block splits. So I do not think it'll be very easy for Spotify. They have an activist investor now in the company. This is this is some bullshit if you have a company I ran a public company we took up my own company

public. When you if you get an activist investor, your life is hell. The Board Meetings Suck. It's depending on the level of a of investment they've made. And I think this was even a little bit. So Spotify didn't really go. I mean, they they're a public company, but they didn't do an IPO in a traditional way. I think we talked about that, didn't we? Yeah, they did raise

billions of dollars. Now, they got all the early investors out on their pay day, which was mainly record companies, etc. And some banks, with hundreds of millions of dollars by going public, so then they could monetize their, their their very early investment. So they've raised money, but they didn't raise money with the IPO. And so clearly, they have to raise some new money. And now comes the really smart money. And that's an activist investor. And the activist investor, I think that

that the original shareholders will dilute. They're not just buying shares on the open market, I think they're buying shares from existing holders inside, like inside shares. Yeah. Or it could be a shares that were set aside for employees a lot of a lot of different ways to do it. But that's real money that they can convert into, into cash that

they can spend. And, and I just wanted to say, in this forum, this is a tremendous opportunity for Spotify, because they can blow the activist investors away by showing the way the showing the world that the way to go, is not in the way that everyone else is trying. But be completely open, join the open system. Join if you know, build your app to be a better podcast app. Let's start with that. It's an OK app. And you have a great audience, you know, so it works. It's an okay app, that's like,

we were just on podcast.com. That's audible. All right. So you know, they mesh it in with their audio books, but but really invest in building a great app, and you can kick everyone's ass at your level, Apple, Google or whatever Google's doing. Amazon, anything else? By showing Oh, look, we have we've enabled all this hundreds of 1000s of feeds that have 2.0 named namespace, podcast namespace content, that no one else is surfacing. You can do it, you could even do

lit, you have the infrastructure for that. If you really wanted to, I would advise against it. But you could even reboot the albatross known as anchor. And we'd be so happy to have you on board. We really would, it would it would lift everybody, it would lift all of podcasting. Now, I know that this will probably fall on deaf ears. But I just wanted to say, this is the opportunity. This is a tremendous opportunity for

Spotify. And if they if they if they just start to tamp down, I just see, it's I went through this is a 10 year process of shutting everything down. It's sad. The employees become sad, you know, the stock code. It's just it's a sad Scituate sad, sad situation. The Elton John came up. And, and and go open, go open, go big. People will love you for it. And you will create a better product and you can participate in massive flow. And Joe Rogan will be a part of that too. I know he would love

to do it. Go open. Stop the insanity. I can imagine that have obviously never been in that position. But I can imagine having an active activist investor is just like, you just wake up every morning immediately and self defense mode and you're just trying to keep your head above water trying to not make you know, and then yeah, no, I agree. That's it's just a great, it's this

moment in in the market. Is it Todd, the other day said something on one of his shows where he was like, you know, hey, with the way that podcasting is now if you want to have a podcast and get your show out there and have some have some make some waves, now's a great time just because everything's a little bit depressed. So it's probably the same thing with Spotify. This is a such a tremendous like this right now, with Google sort of bowing out of the podcasts,

space and all this kind of stuff. Like it is a great time to go and just sort of like really shake that, because they made all these investments. But the app didn't change very much. So they on the app side of things. They never really, they haven't pushed any real potential. Like they haven't shaken any of that up. Like if they really changed the app and

embraced, like Buzz cast. That was hearing. Kevin Finn talking about the person tag and how Apple has stopped taking submissions for those images like host images used to you would email it to them and they would put it in there and then the host Which picture was show up? And I'd have all this connectivity and that kind of things, totally proprietary

thing to them. And then, you know, now we have the person tag this open system is, he's like, Well, you know, they're having this big debate, well, you know, Apple would never do that, because they want to control you know, everything, which I disagree with, I think they would do it. But then, you know, a company like Spotify, they could come in, and they could immediately just boom, boom, boom, they just start throwing features out left and right. And just

really remember that around the same time. Now, it was our buddy over there at Apple who left? Oh, yeah. I've already forgotten his name. He's gone. Out of your life? Yes, you did. You know, he said, No, we had a call. We talked about on the show, we had a call scheduled. And he said, you want to talk about what we're doing? I want to hear about, you know, because he had even said, you know, maybe come talk to the team about 2.0, which never materialized. I think COVID came

in there to just to MIT to be fair. And I said the same thing, do this, this is how you will be legendary. We're going to do we're going to do subscriptions. Okay, fine. And that's because they have an internal mechanism that is called accounting. And they have to show that all the work they're putting into it results in something and it's okay, what they did, but you know, now you're uploading stuff to Apple itself. So they're, they're really creating their own little ecosystem, which is

fine. James, James Bugs, bugs, exactly. Sorry, James. Now, what's even cooler about this, and we really got to bring our guests and what's even cooler about this, is that when I look at what wave Lake is doing, who now have over 100 songs placed into the podcast index with value blocks, and I see what our

very own Steven B is doing. Music side project.com. Spotify can this finally they can start, they can start making some money and making musicians and artists and music owners, not the people who've signed deals with ASCAP BMI, the music that is owned by the creators can can start making some actual money, they will be the darlings of the business. And there are now hosting companies who are getting into this and dystopia, I think is the one wave lake. And many others could basically

flip a switch and make this happen. And I'm looking at this and it's cool. I am and there's a lot more not more to be done, obviously. But I'm just looking at at what, there we go at what's out there already. And it's you know, and there's music that is playable, it's bootable. You have immediate feedback, all of the 2.0 namespace, the podcast, namespace features can be used for the your bring back the liner notes, people, I mean, it's all kinds of stuff that can be done in phenomenal ways. It's

ready made for and Spotify could be. I mean, they would go from pretty much hated by the music community. If I'm honest about it, if they're honest about it really, to endeared. And you know what, then instead of waking up and thinking, oh, what does that activist investor doing? What backchannel calls am I gonna get? Who are the Who else are they talking to? That's on the board. I gotta call everybody keep my keep my eye on

who's doing what, who's saying what? Instead of that life? Wake up to Glory. Glory. That's my plea. There you go. I've said what I have to say. You pled I have. Oh, all right. Let's bring in our guest. He is it Well, funny enough. He worked at Spotify, but now he's out there doing stuff for himself. One of the things is a steno stenosis. And first we got to ask how he pronounced it, I would say 10 out out FM. Ladies and gentlemen, please give a big

podcasting 2.0 board. Welcome to Nathan gathright. Hey there, Nathan. How's it going? Yes. And it is steno. Like you're somehow geographer you know, when I when I hear this last name gathright. I expect to Britt somehow I'm not quite sure why. I'm texting born. A really? Yeah. Oh, I also lived in Belgium for a couple years and then back to Texas and now I'm in Chicago. Really? What were you doing in in Belgium?

My dad was working out there when I was in high school and just pick up the family moved over there for two years for my last two years of high school and then oh, entering back to the US for university. Because that was kind of my story. My parents have had to work in the in the Netherlands. They picked us up I was seven. How old were you when you when you were in Belgium 16 to 18. Okay, so how long have they been in the CIA? Are your parents so you went to the International School?

Oh, yeah. We're where we Antwerp abroad. I was I was down in Waterloo. Oh, okay. Wow. So you were speaking more French than anything I was. Yeah. Yeah. With the Walloons. We don't like them. Belgium, Belgium, Dutch, French. And was there a third an alien? Mars? Yeah. So we have the Flemish and the Walloons, and they ended that's like family feuds from two centuries ago. I mean, they that's just crazy. They do not like each other the Hatfields and the McCoys, pretty much Europe.

Yeah, pretty much. I was told if you're if you're in the, you know, the French speaking part of the country, take a shot at speaking French, even if you're gonna mess it up, for sure. In the Flemish speaking part of the country just start with English, they'll, you know, they'll start on a better foot with them for exactly much safer now. Well, we're glad you came out alive, my friend. So, the when were you when did you leave Spotify? Just with this recent round of layoffs. Oh, you

were asked to leave? I didn't realize that. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, I hope you would endorse my concept for them. Yeah, I think I think I would love to see more open stuff coming out of all the corners of the podcasting. Yeah. And you've really embraced this with your project. steno.fm. Tell us about it.

Yeah. So steno FM sort of was inspired by the, the projects that sort of were coming, you know, before the namespace came around like D script, starting with, you know, transcripts based editing and other sort of transcript based search tools. But obviously, the challenges of transcribing everybody else's shows legally and monetarily, we're something that I knew was never really going to be viable. So when the transcript tag came around, I got real excited to revive some of my older, older

designs. I'm a product designer by trade. So I'm just thinking about the way UX challenge is great. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, that's great. So the visual, you know, the visual challenge of like, I'd want to make a better experience than just the equivalent of like closed captions, I want to make it, you know, searchable,

readable, all of that. So, you know, for shows that provide a well formatted, SRT file, VTT file, JSON file, whatever, I do the best that I can to give it you know, a good formatting and a good listening experience alongside that. So this is really a listening. Podcast experience is what's done. Oh, okay. All right. By the way, have you seen the new Hindenburg Pro to sing? Because I let me just give you a quick review. Holy crap. Why did you guys change the interface? Why

did you change the colors? You freak me out? There's no I hate that. This is your review this review. And and there's one other part of my review, why if I buy this? Do I have a timer that says you have 10 hours of transcript time is doing the processing on my machine. But yet somehow I'm I'm I'm, I have to buy ours. I mean, it's very, it may not be that way. But that was a real turnoff, just seeing that like what I mean, and we're still processing no agenda.

So so I know, you've been building steno for a while, obviously, but then. But it's it's sort of been live. I mean, was this today was a sort of like a soft launch. I mean, what would you call this? Yeah. So today are basically just push a new homepage. And a new trending page. trending page is actually only discoverable if you like, hit the little menu on the top left hand corner, but it's a op three powered page with trending episodes that have

a podcast and D have transcripts and have the OP three prefix. So if you're supporting both of those things, hey, I'm trending the trending page, I'm trying mascon A bottle no agenda trending? Am I trending? Or is it just, you know, way down the page? I'm down the page. Oh, yeah, you're trending down there. We're trending. Well, what is so so when I was looking at this the other day, it says Power BI op three, and I'm assuming that means that let me

ask you some questions. So I'm assuming that that means that op three is where you're getting the sort of, kind of lack of a better term popularity data or downloads. Yeah. So that's how you get your your ranking type of thing. Yeah, for lack made me made a little custom endpoint for me. That's specifically you know, filtering down to just what are you just asking you shall receive,

okay, and then. So does that mean that you have to be only if you're Show is not using the Opie three prefix you you won't show up in steno, you won't show up in the trending page. But from the homepage, you can search literally any show. I'm my search box pulls from both the podcast index API and the apple API. Okay, so in the in the, in the, in the main discovery page, it's the popular shows with transcripts. How are you determining if they're popular? What's your factors there?

This is just manual. This is in that case, that's just a manually curated page for now. If Cena doesn't really have any sort of usage, yeah. Okay. Yeah. If books could kill podcast is great podcast. Yeah. They, so you're, you're not using any other algorithm? You're just kind of hand curating that list? Yeah. For now. Okay, do you have any, like, are you going to change that you're gonna make it some sort of automated thing? Yeah, I've spent Oh, gets enough usage to pull from my own data,

then that I can switch to that. But for now, it was just looking at top ranking charts and crawling feeds trying to see what has transcript tags. I was talking with Dan Meisner, and he said, You know, I think familiar cover art is would do a lot for steno. So the more popular the show in the general public, the more curious somebody will be more engaged, they will to poke around the app and give it a shot. So try to find the most recognizable shows I could and put it on this.

Here's something interesting, and it's probably a bug. It's a bug. But I it may be a bug on my side, which is actually really good. Because I think no, it's so I searched for curry in the keeper, which is show I do have my wife, curry and the keeper. And so you have three results. Your Apple podcast, podcast index, what is RSS? It doesn't show up there. But what is RSS? So if you just want to put in an RSS Oh, okay. Precisely. So podcast index, it shows up. I click on podcasting. This is

creating the keeper teen and Adam curry. I click on it. And it gives me no agenda. And I believe that is because for some reason that we're still working on the podcast. ID is the same in Korean the keeper as it is in no agenda. The good The Good, The Good, the good. Yeah, the good. So this is searching based on good, which is cool, actually.

Yeah. So all the show pages are good results. So send out Auto Show slash guid will take you and at that point, I am then hitting the index to look up that Gu ID and oh, that's I mean, so I mean, I Nationally it's my it's my problem. I know. But it's excellent. You're doing that. I'm good. I love that. Yeah. Excellent. You little techno man. You know, I'm a, you know, I'm an A plus student, I tried to check off as many of the boxes on the namespace that I did in short order.

Well, this is this is great for a lot of reasons. But so to veer off for a second, which is something we never do but to veer for a second, like, So Todd had this comment the other day on? On his show, where he said, See, I wrote a note and he says he said he hoped that we haven't run out of ideas with podcasting. 2.0 like goodness, like we're like, what comes next sort of thing. And it's, I just want to, it's felt like a time

to do that to talk about that. Because I mean, there's tons of ideas, I mean, like playlists, open subscriptions, channels, bonus items, shared soundbites. Just looking down the list of their sponsor, stage, guests, you know, has guests remote item, but there's that's just those just like an initial cursory glance. So but the thing I think they were talking about, they felt like there's a general slowdown. That is on purpose. I mean, that that is a thing. I've talked about this before. Like,

I don't run the namespace. I mean, it's not my project, to me belongs to the community. But, but I do. And I'm conscious of the fact that I do have the ability to sort of set the speed of things in the tone, because I'm the one that mostly does the pull request, you know, approvals and things like that. And so, it was a very conscious decision on my part to slow down the pace of things a little bit because we I mean, we outran everybody with 100 different tags. And people had only

implemented like three. We just didn't it didn't make any sense to just keep going and going and going. And the reason is because and I'm bringing this back around us where the reason that this is important, is because of things like Gu ID. So so we're gonna do one of the things that we've got, we've got in the in the pipe that's just been sitting there. Dormant is to channels, podcasts channels. Podcast channels is going to depend on GUID. This the same thing that the same mishmash we

ended up with with with, with lit lit depends on pod pain. So the pod pain had to be had to be fully formed in you know before lit could be fully formed. So there's a lot of things guid is actually a really important piece of the overall puzzle going forward. Because this idea that we need to take URLs are impermanent, people move their shows all the time, it is not an uncommon thing for this to happen. People move from host to host, they go to self host, and they go back, blah, blah, blah,

they get bought. So the idea that you that your URL, is your universal identifier really just doesn't work. So the idea of the podcast Gu ID, that can be your your actual permanent ID and your show, oh, in the show result, the good resolves to the URL that is in something that's that is critical for a lot of things that come downstream. So the fact that you're doing this nation is phenomenal, beautiful, phenomenal.

I love that. And by the way, I don't know what this is. Have you ever heard the ISO baht? In the chat room? No, no, literally someone's typing in? No, I'm an A plus student. And that has a link to an mp3 And you know, I'm a you know, I'm an A plus student, I tried to check off as many this is this is this is some space age stuff going on here. People are some bot that can do ISOs in real time. All right, I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm just I'm going nuts. So we got we got

goods being used. We got ISO bots, I feel like I'm back in the stone age. Your that? I think this may be the first I think this may be the first app that uses do it as Yeah, its main main index. Let's see who else is out there think? Yeah, maybe. I think I think I know fountain URLs are just using the podcast index ID. And a couple other people, pod, pod pod verse and curio caster

and fountain are all using the podcast index ID. But the GU IDs sort of came probably after they got all that set up? Well, it makes me think that I need to, then I need to sort of prioritize the, you know, an easier way to resolve it, to resolve these to read this an open open way, you know, rather than forcing everybody to have a key. Because that would probably be probably be a bit better. I mean, there's just some things that probably make more sense being outside of the API. But

you're, you're, you're well qualified to do this. I mean, like you, if people don't know, your background, you. You got your part, you had an app that got bought by pods sites. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's how I ended up at Spotify was two acquisitions deep in selling pod dot link to pod sites. And then pod sites was acquired by

Spotify. And I went along for the ride both of those times, but pod dot Link was trying to sort of solve that problem of everybody only really wanting to promote one link for their podcasts not fill a tweet with, you know, five different apps. And Pocket Casts was my app of choice, which had, you know, around 1% market share, it was never going to be anybody's, it was always gonna get cut out of the tweet if they're going to

link to even more than one podcast app. Right. So I was just sort of tried to address that problem where people say, find us wherever you download podcasts. And I, you know, remember reading somebody saying that find us, wherever you download podcasts is, you know, a good is a green flag. It's a sign of that open ecosystem, but it does make it harder for the podcaster to motivate a, you know, slightly curious listener to go to the trouble of, you know, okay, how did they spell

that long show name or whatever. So product link was sort of trying to be that Lincoln bio landing page solution that automatically linked to Apple and Spotify and Google and overcast and all of them, because I just looked at the deterministic nature of how all of them created their URLs and auto generated pages based on that. So the podcaster didn't even have to go and set it up. A listener could go promote their favorite show by finding the public page for it and sharing it with friends.

Yeah, this, do you have any immediate? Like, what's your immediate roadmap? So your stint of standards like law is launched. Now? What do you do you have like a short term set of features that you think are are sort of imminent, that you're going to look at putting in? Yeah, so right now, looking at your own sort of stats package. We're at 24,000 podcasts with transcripts, nearly 600,000 episodes of the transcripts. That still is only 0.6% of all

podcasts in the index. So I really want to see what I can do to advocate for more use of the transcript tag. And and you know, richer use of the transcript tag, a number of the hosts right now are really sort of sort of going to like a lowest common denominator and supporting just txt transcripts. I think on a recent episode, y'all just ran in within grade into this with rss.com. There is no file upload, you can't upload an SRT, you can only paste something in there. It's coming.

Yeah. Um, but you know, Captivate and transistor, some of them are, you know, are not really thinking about transcripts as like a multi format thing in the RSS feed. They're sort of thinking about, well, how does it look on the

landing page for this episode on our own site? More than, you know, what can I have, you know, making sure that it's a properly formatted file for other apps to do something interesting with I'm kind of digging the design choice you made here on the transcripts, where the, although my transcript is not well formatted just one big block of text. But as you play the podcast, it's bopping down line by line highlighting it in a kind of a yellowish orange. And then if you just scroll down,

you click on something the audio jumps to that. That's nice, ma'am. That's rude. Yeah, and that's, that's exactly something you could put on a on a podcast page. Ya know, I would love to see a whole bunch of hosts copy this and add it to their own, you know, all the other end websites for their own podcasts. So give that experience to everybody on what's the what's the end goal here, Nathan, you're obviously cruising on your Spotify millions. So what are you going to do with?

I don't know, I don't think I have delusions that it's going to be a competitive podcast app, I haven't invested in making user accounts or, you know, a mobile app or anything like that. So we'll see. It's mostly trying to advocate for the transcript, like further adoption of the transcript tag and think about beyond the transcript tag, how can we, you know, bring transcripts to more podcasts, even if that the

transcript tag is not available to them. So I've been having discussions as people trying to figure out if shows that have dynamic ad insertion can ever adopt transcripts in a meaningful way. If their transcripts don't have timestamps, then they might as well just link to it in the description and not bother with the transcript tag is, you know, there's no point in you know, integrating it into the player

if it's equivalent to opening up a web view anyway. If it does have timestamps, then, you know, all their dynamic adding in their dynamic add ins, injection tech gets in the way, because then they don't ever, ever guarantee except Buzzsprout Buzzsprout figured that out, they figured out really once you did their their Buzzsprout advocates for is the podcast app, when it downloads the episode downloads the transcript at that point, and not when the listener goes to

listen to it a second time. So if the listener goes to listen to it two weeks later, they're dynamic. And they're dynamic block has changed in some way upsetting the timestamps, the transcript URL will have changed at that point. So they really want you to just cache the transcript at time of download. I tried out this podium page. Have you heard of this podium

pal? Yeah. Which I think is that they also have an app, I think, and yeah, it seems like they're a company that is using podcasting to display their incredible artificial intelligence prowess. But I did, I did throw a podcast into it into the system. And so I saw it came back. So it does transcript, but it also does, chapters. It does, it takes it makes an attempt. shownotes not bad. I mean, not great, because I was very impressed with the show notes feature. Yeah,

it's a starting point. And you know, it has timestamps, and I mean, I would never use it. I mean, I love human intelligence. So you know, our chapters like I love Dred Scott doing it, but it was a but even for drab, it might, it might be a great way to just get a like a little idea of okay, here, you know, here's some things that I that I might look out for, because he basically just listens in real time. And just, you know, taps it and says, Okay, here's a chapter, here's a chapter,

here's a chapter. But it wasn't horrible. Yeah, back to David's point about like, you know, feature

development. Whereas feature development going, I really want to see the podcast events tag, enable more of a Wikipedia like experience, where if you want to improve the transcript, if you want to improve the chapters, or suggests something that listeners have a way to communicate that back to the podcaster, and that the host can mediate that if the host is managing all the web hooks or something like that, and say,

like, Oh, hey, looks like you know, you left a typo. There's podcasts I know that have their transcripts on GitHub, and I've totally gone in and, you know, put down a pull request to fix some things that I saw. You are an enormous asset to podcasting 2.0 This is fantastic. You Appreciate that. No. I mean, you are, you're just developing stuff that you think could be better and can be implemented and show and leading by example. I love it. Thank you

so much. It's really it's awesome that I don't use that word lightly. Do you have any sort of gut feeling as to what has been a little? Just kind of baffled by how few podcast apps have put transcripts into the app? They just it doesn't seem that I'm not. I'm not gonna say the trivial, because it's, I mean, it requires work. But it's also not. I mean, it's not like groundbreaking ly difficult to track an SRT file. I mean, I'm just I'm just a little I'm just a little interested in that. I

would. There's so many out there now, like you said to me, 600,000 episodes with, with transcripts, it feels the content is there, I guess I would just see, I don't know, do you? Do you have a feeling as to why people aren't doing more of this? Because it's an accessibility thing. It just makes so much sense. I think, like in even just in launching it today, I saw people like, oh, I checked out my favorite show, and it didn't

have transcripts. And there's not much I can say to them, like, well, I don't need to run a whisper server and create a bunch of, you know, copyright, dubious transcripts that the podcaster didn't sign off on and, and approve. Is that what you're asking me to do here? And they're like, I guess not. And

you're like, alright, so. So from the point of view of like delivering a good user experience to your listeners, if you're making a podcast app, you know, I think a lot of people feel sort of in a bind that they can't promise transcripts for everything. And so they're left saying like, well, it's kind of enabled, if you listen to this subset of shows, and it's the subset of shows that are not doing dynamic ad insertion. So

it's not the shows in the top of the apple charts. I was like crawling apples charts to see how many they had, I think five real five shows in Apple's top 250 have transcripts. And there's actually probably like five, and there's five more that have, they're using the transcript tag, but it basically just pasted in their description into a text file. There's a couple others that are using it dubiously.

That's to me, okay, so trick, dynamic ad insertion is the way that it came down the pipe seems to be responsible for a lot of the a lot of these sorts of things where, oh, we would want we'd like to do it, but we can't figure out how to do it because there's all this dynamic ad insertion. And to me, this just

seems like an eminently solvable problem. But if if we if we step because we already talked to I don't know, if you were in on that conversation, Nathan, I think he may have been, where, you know, we sort of had this back and forth with, with some various people about how to make these timestamps line up in a good way. Because you, you submit, the way it seems to be happening is these these, the audio gets submitted to sound

stack or some third party ad insertion provider. And then there's, there's slots that are marked in the fee in the in the mp3. And then those those slots go in to the mp3 from sound stack, and then it gets delivered dynamically back when you download it. To me, I mean, they're just that those, those ad slots can come back in as markers in the ID three tag, they can come back in, in a download in headers in the download, where now he's like, Okay, well, I've got offsets.

Now, if I just have a list of a list of ad insertion points and their lengths for the transcript, I can just go and I can just know what those offsets or whatever. To me, just seems like, this seems like a solvable problem. To me. That's, that's not technically challenging. But for some reason, it's just like, we're done with that dai works. I'm just, you know, I'm not going back there. It's, it's annoying. I felt like my first stab at this problem was looking at how

Marco Arment built forecast. And in short order mp3 chapters, were in a lot more apps, including Apple podcasts. And even I had Spurlock look at what was the total adoption of transcripts or of chapters. And when he first looked at it, it

was something like you know, 1.6% or something like that. So I was thinking okay, there's all the hosts that haven't adopted support for the transcript tag yet what if I put the transcript into the ID three tags so I started working on that there's a ID three marker called synchronized lyrics and text which is perfect for putting you know timestamps text for really for like karaoke mode and music but perfectly suitable for putting a whole train script inside an mp3 file, very small,

it's just text. It's not like the people who put a 3000 by 3000 image inside the mp3 file and was going down that route. But enough podcast hosts mess with the ID three tags and throw away anything they don't immediately see as irrelevant

that that idea sort of died on the vine. But I think something that like Dred Scott is saying in the chat is it might be helpful if transcripts served other purposes as well, such as searchable content on a website to, I think really is transcripts are a means to an end, you have a job to be done, that is not read the transcript, but your job to be done is recall a thing that I you know, heard on something that I listened to this week, or, you know, bookmark something or make

something, you know, share something more easily. They're always a means to an end. And they sort of need to be ubiquitous before you can start building the features on top of them linking into that, something that I'm seeing a little bit more of the machine learning AI people are showing up on my doorstep and saying, Hey, can I get all your transcripts? And I say, oh, yeah, here's this directory. And it's on an FTP

server, you can anything this dot SRT is a transcript. And what I, I think that the what has not worked very successfully, is apps using the search for the transcripts for and the main reason it works is chicken in the egg as usual with the stuff we're doing. So to me, it seems like someone can build a service that searches transcripts without you know, but does it with real machine learning type stuff. So you can say I'm looking for something like this instead of, you know,

or I want to hear when curry said that. And it seems to me that that would be an incentive. Because one of the thing about podcasters, we know that they don't like spending money, but they also don't want to be left out of something. So if Oh, YouTube, I'm on YouTube, oh, it's on AOL, they're back with with a floppy disk, I'm on the floppy disk. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter podcast want to be everywhere. And not to have

to have kind of what you're doing. Honestly, like, okay, you don't have a transcript, here's how you can get a transcript one

bug, your host, your hosting company, too. You could hear some commercial services, including otter or whatever, or the even Hindenburg, where you can use what's the, the do it yourself package, forget the name, whisper, you know, and someone build an actual resource around that, I think that would entice podcasters to do that, and not necessarily, because it's, you know, the biggest problem of of the transcripts for me in a way is I like getting a show out immediately.

And the transcript usually goes up two hours later, because it just takes that long to transcribe, but having a resource that could I mean, I think there's ways to make that have money flowing, you know, or value for value blocks throw. So that was a whole bunch of things that could be done. Even advertising for all I care. If we had a place where that was actually being done this everyone's everyone's got a man,

I'm looking at you comic strip blogger. I mean, there's people who are doing so much ml AI LMNOP, this is a great opportunity, and you already have quite a stack. And if people are searching for topics, and the only thing that that can show up is podcasts that have transcripts, I think that would kick off people being interested in actually doing it.

Yeah, I definitely want to see the podcast events tag, enable people to contribute back, like, Hey, I get random whisper transcript, you know, as downloaded and, you know, here, I'm sending it to your host, you can read over it and approve it. So that the podcasters putting their stamp of approval on it before it, you know, goes out to your listeners. That's a cool idea. Because then you have people that can begin it's almost like when you put somebody Yeah, but but in an

automated way. Like you don't even have to ask permission. You just you don't you just do it and then send an event just like, hey, I did a transcript that's like this. Drag has been you know, he's on his own dime. He's like, Oh, I'm going back every single mo facts with Adam curry episode. I'm running through a transcript. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You're right, that needs to be an automated fashion. So it just kind of flows back there. That what is

it? What does that tag called? deep bench tag. Yeah, that spits back my system somehow knows to reattach it or whatever click it's now attached to that podcast. This is these are really good ideas. Hello, Spotify. It just it just feels like I think people don't maybe don't appreciate how difficult it is to do good search on anything on debt on data like this. So what I mean is like Google, you say,

Well, Google indexes the entire web. Yeah. But they have, they have a clear signal, the PageRank would signal that link based on incoming links. That was a clear signal, that of quality, that this this thing rises to the top of the stack. As you have incoming links, there's no, there's nothing like that in podcasting. You can't say, Okay, this episode is great, because there's so many, what attached to it, the best you can do is say, Well, there's a whole bunch of downloads,

well, guess what, most people don't have access to that. The podcaster themselves have access to it. And that's it, that nobody else knows that. So you're left within independent, each independent app knows how many downloads are in are happening for each one of those shows on their platform, sometimes, like in the, in the circumstance of cast ematic. Franco doesn't know because that's all happening on device.

So you just have a whole lot of unknowns within within part. So what you're left with really as like I'm looking through steno. And I'm going through these transcripts, you're left with just massive amounts of blob, just huge amount. And I'm talking about this from from a search ability standpoint, but you just huge, huge, massive event of just words. So you really have to have something like an A AI type approach in order to even make anything meaningful out of all of this

stuff. Because this would you end up I mean, if you're like the Brookings Institution, you want to be the Hans Blix of podcasting, then you have to really like, you know, you'd have to do something like this. Because otherwise you can't, you're not going to get a Google search of podcasts. It's just never this is this is the problem with discoverability.

The problem that, you know, people want better discoverability and podcasts in a hand and it's never, it's never gonna be that, you know, here's an opportunity I'm gonna reach out to SRIDHAR RAMASWAMY. He's the he was the CEO. He ran Google search product. And he started Neva and e va.com, which is search engine without ads that I've been using for years, a couple of years

now. And the EO they the minute chat GPT became a thing they already had, you know, the same parlor trick on their homepage actually doing what chat GPT does, like, Oh, you want that your hold our beer? Here you go. They just implemented it. These are the guys that, you know, that would be perfect for this. But why wouldn't they have a tab that says Search podcasts, they could do all of this.

You're you're not gonna get a, you're not gonna get a ranking that's ever real in a way of sort of like popularity, the best you can do is find you can mined the data for a specific piece of information, like, I want podcasts episodes about a topic, but you can't you can't pair that with any sort of

independent thing that says, Okay, now. Now out of all these results, this is quote unquote, the best one is just unless I'm missing something, I don't see any way you need that feedback loop from Okay, which one's got clicked on? Yeah, that's how you get back around to that PageRank thing. So this is actually, you know, this is the job to be done that Dave, you've repeatedly failed to articulate when pattern was snow. Why? Why you want data from all the different

perhaps why you want popularity? It's really as weights for things like search. Yeah, than it is. You heard me? Yes, yes. Somebody heard me. Yes. You're exactly right. Like, that's yes. Thank you, Nathan. I feel so validated and heard right now. Yeah. Another feature idea that I think can be built on transcripts is if you are going to have some sort of like ask me

anything a portion of a show. If you're a longtime listener, and you hear somebody asked a question that's been like, I know, they've answered this before, it would have been great in the Ask Me Anything form in the same way that like, if you're gonna go submit a new post on StackOverflow it's like, oh, by the way, this has already been asked like, you're writing up a question right now that you think is novel, but I promise you we've actually already addressed this and you can get

the answer immediately instead of waiting for the next episode, and hope that they pick your question. So using transcripts to enable search just have a specific show or if you just want to search things I've listened to before I think that is my personal like most interesting use that I want to see built and maybe I have to do it myself but you know, I don't like limit restrict my search to things you know, I have listened to in this app because I'm trying to recall some thing

right now I'm not trying to like, oh, what's the world? You know, I'm curious about some topic. And I want to know, I'm just gonna go into the search box and hope that I find a host that knows what they're talking about. That's yeah, that's an interesting concept sort of like email at that point. It's like, well, I read this email, but I know it's in there somewhere. But I don't I don't know which folder it's in. Oh, sounds a lot like the freedom controller.

It does. I was trying to explain to Alex something about how I use the framework early the other day, and I was like, yeah, well do it. Like, I like this. And I'm like, Screw it. It's not gonna make any sense to anybody. Yeah. Yeah. I also want to see booster grams alongside the transcript at the point when you'd like using the timestamp element, not just you know, nobody is really using the timestamp element in an interesting way. Well, the stat and I think that's guys are the stats

package. Just use it, you get a good, nice timeline. And I do look at I do look at that. Yeah. But when, when the activity pub, like boost crossover thing that Dave's working on is out there, I want to you know, display that to listeners so that they can see you know, where a boost is showing up along with the episode maybe, you know, in a Google Docs comment style experience, where you can spark a whole conversation thread off of, you know, an initial booster

gram, something like that. So I think there's plenty of new features to build in the space couldn't you? Couldn't you take a 1% could not add you as a split into Yeah, or episode in the new see, because then you'd get the boost. And you would see the timestamp and you just bid and you'd be able to mark mark it my favorite way of adding services to podcasts. Just do that just as well. You will you start taking splits. I've designed my own booster Graham interface. And

we'll see. We'll see when I will see where that gets right now I'm, I'm I got more time on my hands to work on steno for now. We'll see. By the way day, we need to thank some people I think for the podcast index.org website, which was recently upgraded with Yes, and Nathan is part of that ball. So explain explain what we've done here because it's beautiful. Alright, play along at home. Everybody got a podcast? index.org and Nathan will tell you what happened.

Yeah, so you we added cross app comments. I wrote down the pronunciation of gear gillerman. Yamo. I don't know at the end of the name. Yeah. Go there. ngModel. Augustine. The front pod station puts it on dude, pod Dev. He did the vast majority of the work and I just contributed some design help and some front end code. But we made a view only cross app comments experience on the podcast index website. So if you go to podcasting 2.0 scroll down, you know, find an episode

and hit show comments. We use John Spurlock's thread cap library to pull in all the stuff attached to the root post on this episode. Now, how do I how do I get to how do we get to actually responding from nerves? Never. That's never on the line? Well, that's down the line that that's that's gotta because, yeah, that's when you

do. I mean, the thing we came up with recently is Oh, off, you know, off to a mastodon server, and then, but that, I mean, that's like step two, you know, to me, the so this sparked a lot of, you know, predictable debate about content moderation. I guess I want to just just comment on that for a second. This to me the most important thing about this whole page and the way this is done, and kudos to to you or gillerman that that did this is the show Comments button. The comments don't show

unless you go and ask for them. To me, that's critical. Because otherwise you're you're just at the mercy of the of the moms is also how YouTube does it. You have to click to get comments. Yeah, and I think that's, I think that's critically important because it takes 90% of the of the worry of I don't want this stuff. I don't want X thing X and comment associated with my content. You know, that when you have hide it behind a user action, the same way that Mastodon does with a no content

warning that you're right. Okay, you were warned. You and you did it anyway. So I mean, you're you're kind of you kind of know, it, it, it sort of in a real way puts the expectation of, of policing the user's eyeballs onto the user and not on to To the Creator. I don't know, maybe maybe I just feel like it's

important is an important piece of the discussion. Because I don't know that wherever, what, what people started talking about, you know, or is, you know, I don't want one comment out of all this stuff to not show up if it was like it had something, profanity in it or something like that. I just don't, that's just not the way that's not the way that Mastodon or activity Pub is just not like that, you'll never you will never have that level of control. There may be there may

be this, excuse me, let me rephrase that. It may be that, for reasons of that are peculiar to Mastodon or certain activitypub implementations, that when you retrieve a thread of comments, like Nathan said, when, when the when thread cap asks for the root post, and all the posts that comes with it, it it might be that just by a vagary of the way that Mastodon does things, that you that sometimes you could get rid of one of those comments with hiding it or muting or something

like that. I don't know. We I don't think we know for sure yet. It but it might be that. But that's a different thing. That should not set the expectation that that's always possible across all of activity, public permutations. Because I guarantee you, I don't think that's part of the spec. And I guarantee you that there are going to be implementations of

activity pub, that do not honor that sort of thing. They're just going to show you everything that they know about whether it's been deleted, or any of that is that you're feeling as well, Nathan, I think the podcaster is opting in to the set of moderation controls they want by what route posts, they put in the URL. So if they want to host their own situation, host their own activity pub server, where they have full control over what

replays are visible, they can, you know, go that far. And if they want to just put a link to a podcast index, not social thing, they're leaving it up to you, all right. So they are choosing their own moderation controls. Based on you know, at that point when they decide the route post, and that's the, that's the moment when they have control to decide how much

moderation they want. Anything like after that point is, you know, if you're trying to, you know, ask other people's service to be managed, the way you want it to be managed than just run your own service. And, you know, different people can provide activity, both servers that suit your own tastes for moderation. Yeah, I think that's the best you can hope for. I just think it's a different. It's a different world and you can't, this new world of Mastodon where everybody left, everybody left

the centralized thing of Twitter and they hated it. They had you they just absolutely despised it. But and it had all the moderate it had all the moderation tools there. But it but they hated it. And they went to Mastodon and the, the mastodon universe is such that if somebody comments on your post, and their server is not blocked, you're gonna see it,

you're just gonna see it, that's just the way that it goes. And so I mean, if really, it's just, I hate this is the bomb, you know, we talked about, you know, to get to nuclear subs, you had to go through the you had to blow shit up. But this is the bomb Gehrman Gehrman. And Nathan, they invented the bomb. Now. Now we have to, you know, down the line, step two, step three, where as we're going down the line, and then then we get to nuclear subs and you know, in the in the stuff that actually

is useful for society. But this stuff right here, this is just step this is step one, and I don't know that. I don't know that we're at the point yet, where control is the proper discussion, maybe that's going well, but this is very typical in podcasting land, where, since we didn't have both sides of the equation with hosts and apps, people just throw up roadblocks all the time on Slack channels, and then nothing got anywhere. And so now we have running with

scissors. That's how you get stuff done. Yeah, yeah, no, I think I mean, I think the this additional thing, there's a way there's just not a way at this point in time to be sure that any specific sort of moderation is gonna happen. I think that I think that just that idea needs to be left no off the table for the time being, you know, down the road, we'll see. But I mean, as far as interest, just generally speaking, the website is beautiful. I mean, Dark mode.

We know with dark mode. I mean, like, it's fantastic. The dark mode is fantastic. The comments are fantastic. I think somebody was I think Guillermo was saying that he's also working on, on performance, like to get the comments to load a little bit faster, because there is a delay there. Or maybe give me a little spinning wheel. Oh, yes. A little a little a little spinny. Yeah, yeah, that's already that's, that's a UI decision. That's next Nathan Lucia. Talk to him about that.

Shall we? Yeah, he has a little spinner. Shall we thank a couple people. I'm sorry to say I just have a hard doubt coming up. You're not sorry to say that you like saying the MO Horta. I love saying it. I hate people who say that I'm kind of hard out before the meeting. I'm sorry, I have a hard out. Well, why don't you go fuck yourself that you don't have the meeting

with me. So, so it's nice. I'm happy to say it once. By the way want to make note that we now have 12,044 feeds with value blocks in the index is cranking like at at almost eight 910 x what it used to do, we'd have a couple a day now we're talking 3040 a day. And I'm not exactly sure why. Other than we just rock, but I'm not sure. It's not. There's no other explanation that we're seeing it in transactions on the index as well. It's it's up. We're trending. We're trending up.

It's it's very exciting. Very exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When thanks me, was that. That's it. We were gonna thank some people. Oh, yeah. Okay, let me let me get the booster grams that have come in so far, because people are always boosting live. We have Todd Cochran. Now who was boosted multiple times 25,000

isaps. Here this challenge improved. And he would know, the challenge of programmatic ads is that the ad fill rate is about 80% and changes by the second so the transcript offset signal would be from Download to download and needs to be in the download metadata to signal the offset. We've been working with our ad delivery partner to have a solution. I have a solution. Cool. I'm glad because right on it. Yeah. Oh, you can use my solution. Just get rid of it. Like Sockeye the horse 1000 SATs

Thank you, Eric P P. 33,333. There's Todd Cochran again 100,000 Satoshis Bala Sakala 20 is Blaze on the Impala I've been adding liquidity to my personal lightning node ugh such a pain in the ass with channels so much fun lol but thank goodness Albion pod verse fountain etc making this easy go podcasting. You know, I heard Todd talking about that. Yeah, I'm doing stuff with liquidity. I'm like no, stay away. Don't do it. Stop it. Stop Todd stop. It's a hole. You do not want to

go down there you don't I'm just saying I love brother. I love it let's there Spencer. Just get on with such bizarre let him do a ring of fire with you and you'll be done. Ring of Fire 6666 from blueberry mainstream conspiracy podcast and bitching about suppression on Spotify go together like peanut butter and spoiled Mayo for the love of all good things and natural make it stop? I have no idea what he's talking about. I had no idea either.

Sir lurks a lot. With a super leaps will 13,370 Lalala lit boost Thank you very much. Steven Be a satchel Richards 11,111 Shameless plug music side project.com is now live listen to and boost your favorite RSS music feeds. I'm also working on an MSP studio, MSP Microsoft Project managed service provider I don't know, which will be a simplified version of sovereign feeds. Oh, oh, a music service provider studio. I missed it.

What is MSP? What does MSP stand for? Which will be a simplified version of sovereign feeds which I use focused on making a music feed Oh decentralized music for the win. No music side projects studio da MSD Yeah. Oh. We got a drip Scott. There were the

333,333 we thanked him for that. Blueberry was in early listening to some of the we were playing we always start off when we when we hit the lip about 1015 minutes before we before we start with 100 Personal retro sing along and he was boosting along a boost along to Shakira and he boosted oh baby when you boost like that nice 13,369 Blueberry here's secure fan.

Beautiful. Let me see. Pfeiffer 3800 breezes stubbornly refusing to refill my curio caster wallet boosting remaining balance go podcasting Dobby does who I heard on he's our says blue.com Right you A very interesting guy doing is starting off from scratch with a hosting company all to point out love at 25,000 SATs Thank you. And there's Martin Linda's code with a nice row of ducks. 22,222 He says he says I wonder if Apple podcasts

app is searchable for the ducks in the row. I doubt it. I've added chapters with my images that my co host Karina Rubinius has created in Canva by use visit RFM studio to add the images could it be that captivate is not supporting chapters yet? I don't know. I don't know. And then I think SLC no that's for no agenda. I think that's it. The rest would be on your output of the booster grams Dave. Oh, yes, we have no PayPals there's no weekly session complete. It's done.

Overnight. Hold on here to here it is me now. Yeah. Nice. I like it. Real Estate's from Joel wo 1111. No Nope through fountain and we get a Hardhead one a 101 binary boost through curio caster note from hard hat Thank you hard hat 438 SATs for Sir Michael's low bid at those good No. Hey Dave, would you please approve my pull request Okay, thanks bye. Yes, I'm just always that's always a weird thing for guys to say to each other just

approve of it. Copy 1980 40,000 sets through fountain This is 100% No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No what I think you mean RP is painstakingly or I say five by five is my new 105 by five five by five in the pipe in the Satoshi stream 5552 through fountain it says 25 years of XML and he has a link to the RFC for a

nice happy birthday. XML was right yes, Satoshi Strange is really fired up about XML chat F 1000 SATs through pod verse he says test boost from the Orion browser on iOS using pod verse.fm and the lb extension. Wow. Oh, that's right. You can run you can run the extensions in the Orion browser. That's right. Chad F is doing the is doing the AES the official bookkeeper now off the bucket of I guessing 2.0. And going back and doing every accounting on every single episode. I'm

not sure exactly what the point is. But it's interesting. It shows the value for value works. That's for sure. Yeah, when we will. When you when you go when you're done, send it to us or send it to CPA for taxes. Yeah, I want to can you do it in QuickBooks, QuickBooks? korkin send us 10,000 sets through Felty says thanks, guys. Keep up the awesome work. wishing there was an easy way to get normally listeners converted to vie for V and BTC. But it seems they still want to default to Pay Pal and

cookbooks. Hard to break through the years of bad education and government money propaganda. It is indeed very difficult. But if you keep at it, and you don't give the easy way out, which created the keeper has done which really been very hard. Most people just turns out love to just click on the link when you tweet it out. I just listened to the browser. So we've actively actively said please do this, get the get the we promote a different value for

value app each time. And the only the ones that do refills in the app. It's hard is very hard to start with any listener group who are not already clued in, but it's well worth it because people when it comes through when you read their booster gram, everyone's kind of jazzed it's a good feeling. It's worth it's worth hanging in there. Dave Jackson 10,000 SAS Hall of Famer do fountain net. I remember Lilian acts on the ball. Love them. Play. Cool

played the day that I met you for the keeper. You'll thank me later. I did. I did. And you know what, Dave? Thank you. You get a hard out. Very hard out on that one. Go prove your pull request. You want to go into one step too far. And we have had the horse had did it to me. It's his fault. Mere Mortals podcast 8008. Boot donation through fountain he

says, Oh, I know how to explain the split. Simply imagine there are eight and a half people and we want to evenly split the SATs according to the ratio of their good mic technique divided by the square root of their filler words. If we assume an exponential Keynesian model, there's infinite incoming step sets. Knowing this each person will receive a percentage that adds up to 100 Wait, what? Okay, wow, yeah, baby. It's 37 ad from

anonymous to get automatic. No, nope. I think give notice to cast ematic getting a little more action lately. I have yeah yeah it's come it's coming up if people haven't tried if you're on an iPhone you haven't tried cast Matic if you haven't tried to send a booster away it's I would recommend it like go do a boosted cast ematic and look at the way Franco if there's a problem and one of the splits Fails of the screen that comes up it's really cool I mean you can see exactly what's going

on like it's He's done a lot. He just keeps doing a lot of work there and he just never He never tells anybody what he's doing it just keeps getting better silently under the covers like all of a sudden I just noticed new things pop up all the time so cool. Good app. Yeah. I'm robot 8008 The Fountain he says shout out craps crippled apps go podcast crap. Got about that. SLC 7777 striper boost through fountain he says casting off the God of Mammon with podcasting turbo boost Oh yeah. Boost some

quack 111 says I love this show. Do my low set boost also cost you money will save and boost bigger if rare and so okay. Just boost bigger all the time. Boost boost boost almost always the answer? Yeah. Mere Mortals podcast row does 2222 through fat and he says some quack asked an important question. But it was beneath the cut off. So I just wanted to make sure it got read. To quote. Love this show. Demopolis Okay, I will save up and boost bigger. Wait, what? This must be on the

quote. This must be on the comments on fountain. That must be where this stuff is happening. Oh, okay. That went through me for a loop. Oh, yes. Comment? Yeah. Okay. See? Oh, okay. So that was his way of boosting his comments so that it would come through and I would read it. Oh, interesting. Okay. 5000 SATs there from anonymous on pod version of note 25,000 SATs from Borlaug through pod verse and he says just wanted to send my gratitude completely enninful For what the two of you

are doing well. Thank you Borla appreciate it. Sir Brian of London 169,000 SATs index website Wow. Sakala 20 is Blaze only Impala. Whilst my new recurring donation system via hive is in development, I'll send my ketchup boost this way via the POS. Mr. Nice IV sir, thank you, Brian. appreciate them recognize the same Oscar Mary 30 3015 Howdy David Adam Oscar busco on behalf of Mr. BlogHer as a test to make sure all the splits are green.

He is our canary in the coal mine doesn't work happy app not working. Fe happy he's like his comment that Yoda was wrong there is try tone wrecker one on one on one the binary boost the pod verse he says something new to test music side project.com thank you Steven V. Always the king of the yes yes, Doc king of the iKOU record one Oh Big Dig satchel Richards 11 111 through fountain he says wave lake.com helps nearly 100 artists sharing their music.

They have 100 100 artists on the put I've been put into the index. Is that how I interpret that? I don't know. I don't know. Oh, see? Or say well, let's come back to that later. Let's see them. 22 to 22 they're found he says I wonder if Apple podcasts app is searching for the ducks in the row you already read that is did you already read that? That came in just a second ago? Yes. Yes. We've been through that one Well, where's comments or Blogger? Was he the was that the delimiter? No.

Did you read Dobby? Das is 25 though yes I do. Okay, all right. So I hit the bottom bottom of your rock by hit bottom comic strip blogger 30 3015 through fountain and he says Adam and Dave I priests a top the black box Mystery School of the podcast pyramid. Please accepted this offering of sets as our initiation fee is tectonic plates of ingenuity continue to shift. We beseech the boardrooms, attendees to reconcile the colliding of manufactured sentience and free

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Really. I gotta we need to get one of those nut jobs from the chat room on the show in the boardroom Dave. Whoever's doing this, whoever is doing all these. We've got booths, bots, I saw bots. I mean, there's that there's something called gal gal gal and serious gal, blueberry. Whoever it is we didn't go to we need to bring them in. They probably use blueberry. All right. What else? I don't know. You got to heart out and I got a hard doc coming up.

Hey, by the way, we you we reused a title from no agenda. We did. Yeah, lawful but awful is like Episode 14, something you already used with lawful but awful we need. We need a search. We need a title search. So we don't do we don't? Oh, my goodness. Well, that is yeah, that's on me. I usually I'm pretty good catching that stuff. Got it. We've even used titles on no agenda that we've used before on no agenda. Again, for the second time, I mean, 50 130 gets a little fuzzy,

that's a little fuzzy. I just want to congratulate Zion, Zion, who launched something. And they initially were trying to, I think that they they took the whole of sphinx was that thing called, again, the Sphinx relay. I took the open source code and turn it into whatever it is, they rebranded as web five app, and now they got $6 million. So congratulations, Nathan, you should do that. Just read Web. Web five man web five app. It's a web five experience.

You've got so much blank space at the top of steno that if you can easily fit the words web five up there. I agree. Web five. But hey, maybe that's our title web five. What do you say? Yeah. Oh, yeah. There you go website. And you get $6 million. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna nuke the titles. Either we're trending, which I like or web five. Which What do you want? Which one do we choose here? Yeah, we're trending is pretty good to actually, that's actually pretty good. Because we are trending on. I

mean, that's literally true. There's not a lot. And he finally figured out how to explain why you wanted popularity stuff. So that's true. Yes. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And one thing I wanted to throw out there, which I thought was interesting, this podcast, one is spinning out of what is it? Radio One on one, live, one live live. But what did what they're doing and I just, I just want to make sure that I'm not the only

one smelling this. So here's the release podcast. One is partnering with vs game to offer listeners a way to engage with the network's podcast host through gamification. Many games have been launched on the platform that enable listeners to watch and answer prediction and opinion based questions to win rewards. Does this sound like one of those scams where people are playing a game and it plays a little bit of the podcast? I think it's more like Google opinion rewards plus podcast listening.

What does that have? No. Have You Ever Have you ever heard of Google opinion rewards? It's basically like, Hey, would you like to take a survey? And we'll give you a little bit of Google Play credit? Ah, all right. That's so when I heard when I heard their numbers. They were like, man, podcast. One had a great revenue this quarter. And it's like, well, yeah, they're about to IPO. Like, but they had like $3 million or something. Yeah.

But they're literally about to IPO as a separate company. Of course, they're gonna say that they had a bunch of money for their total revenue, annual revenue if I if I didn't misunderstand was $12 million. That's not I mean, and that's not profit, that's revenue they expect. I've read some of their documents. They don't expect to be profitable for quite a while. $12 million, and revs Come on people. Where's all the dollars? You could get half of that with web five?

I think John Spurlock has all the billion dollars in podcasting. I don't know if someone has it. It's only sold in John's basement. Exactly. Oh, man. Hey, Nathan. Thank you so much, man. This is great. You're a great board member to have on they have a lot of a lot of cool stuff thank you for your contributions very impressed. Me and it's and you know, I don't want to disparage anybody was really it's really are a huge benefit to us. To the

to the community to the community. It's fantastic really love having here and thanks for bringing everybody Starbucks to the border. And that was that was really appreciate that next time. I'd like the the croissant though. I'm one of those. Sounds it cheese Danish, please. All right. Thank you very much chat room for being with us. Thank you to all the boosters, Nathan. Thank you. The place to be is steno.fm. Yep. And and I put the your blog posts, which I think you posted.

Was that Trump today? The blog post? Yeah. Put that in the show notes. So we're gonna take a look at that. And if you wouldn't mind emailing me as soon as you can. A wallet to lightning wallet or do you ever get Alby or something that leads in G apt get? Get? I'll be out. Thank you. That helps a lot when we put that right. And by the way, people can boost him directly now. Nathan G. That's quite handy. Dave. We need Adam had podcasts index.org and David podcasts index.org.

That can make that happen. Really? Yes. Oh, that's exciting. That's the keys end result. All right. Well, let's do it. I love it to just walk around so you'd like me out of my index? No, thanks to the Ellen URL, guys, but we just did it. Exactly faster. All right. That's it. Everyone. Have a great weekend. Dave. I love you, brother. Nathan, thank you so much. We'll see you next Friday for the board meeting of podcasting 2.0.

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