Episode 116: Cryptotarians

podcasting to one over January 6 2023, episode 116 We're Krypto terian Hello, everybody first board meeting of the new year 2023 Are we already in the three years this thing almost Welcome to podcasting 2.0 It is your weekly board meeting where we discuss all things around the new podcast standards, the namespace, everything happening at podcast index dot social, and we've got some great guests here with us in the board room. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country on

Alabama. The man always prepared to pull your request. Say hello to my friend on the other end. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones. Did you know that I got a deep cut for you here? A deep Wait, you have a deep cut for me? Yeah, like a lady like a deep cut is in a deep cut on a record. Yeah, but this is a fact. This is like a deep cut fact. Okay. All right. I'm excited already. Well, I was trying to figure out Oscar ping me this morning and

said that we're getting four threes on the API. And so for those of you just tuning in, Oscar, Oscar Mary runs the fountain app. And what did he get on the API? Some four Oh, threes? What is a 403? It is an error of some sort. Obviously. Era. Yeah. So it's it's like, I think is a service unavailable. It's a 403. I was getting mixed up with a four Oh, yeah. Forbidden. My bad. So 403 forbidden, which is weird. I'm

like, okay, that's, that's authentication related. I don't really get and when it gets through Cloudflare you're not exactly sure. Sometimes either, because it can get wonky. But so I'm trying to figure that out. And of course, because I'm listening to my playlist, my Spotify playlist for whenever I'm doing API stuff, because it's important. It gets me in the mood. Oh, wait a minute. I actually have a little peek inside your Spotify post. This is something you posted just today.

Yeah, a little bit of numbers Jones for everybody. Yeah. In honor of the Indian Tom Jones Samsung logo. can help yourself is the title. We know why you posted that. But okay, let's, let's keep on going. Well, so unlike this, I'm trying to figure this out. And then what hits what hits the playlist is sailing, but Christopher cross. Oh, yeah. Take me away. Yes. See me? Yeah. And I'm like, Okay. I don't actually know who Christopher cross is. I thought he was a one hit wonder. I'm like, Oh, we

got a couple songs. I think didn't Yeah, turn. Turns out he had a he had a couple of big ones. That's about it. I mean, like, evidently the guy he's from San Antonio. San Antonio. I didn't know it was from San Antonio. How about yesterday, Senator. Let me see he had say Arthur's theme that was the big one from from the movie Arthur and then oh, ride like the wind. Wait, that's did he do it? Yes. He did. Do what right. Yeah. Okay, so yeah, it's like three hits.

Yeah, three hits and then going so but then but I believe you gotta move you hit. You're gone in comfort. For the rest of your life be okay. Yeah. But then I kept I kept reading on the on the book of knowledge and I'm like, okay. It says that he is such a good guitar player that he filled in for Ritchie Blackmore in a night in a deep purple concert in 1970 when Blackmore was sick. Now that's a deep cut is a deep, I always liked him. I thought he also did some other

projects he was involved in. But I remember it was the album with the I'm looking at it right now. This is the Yeah, the album of the familiar Flamingo on it. Oh, yeah, that was the one we all had that. 119 79 Yeah, this and I'm like, I mean, he looks like a normal guy. He just looks like yeah, you know, average Joe. Like you would see him at, you know, at the Walgreens. Yeah. He looks kind of like a homely average guy. A little bit sad. Just a dad. Well, three and a half million monthly

listeners. According to Spotify. No. Well, um, yeah. Well, he's getting about 20 bucks. That's good. Yeah. If that if that. Well, thank you. Yes, yes. Yeah, we're right. We're back. We're back in business. I just have no idea. I think what happened was the I'm battling this in this is probably this is probably something that we

should talk about. At some point. I'm, I'm battling this batch of signups to the API and it's just like, it's accelerated and I know a lot of them are just garbage scammers and Trump people just find this Got a scrape stuff from us. I don't exactly know what they're doing. Because most of the there's just tons and tons of signups. And nobody. And most

of these don't actually do any anything in the API. So I'm just gonna have to like, and then there's also people that are hitting us with sample code, channel, the CSS, all you know, we have the example. Org, in GitHub that's got all the example code for every language known to man know, on how to hit the API, it will a lot of people are doing is just taking that code and just hit and just like, dropping, running, running going. Well, so we end up with tons of hits with with a user

agent string. That's just right out of the sample code. Well, I think something else is going on here. This is clearly open AI chat GPT, which is, is searching through all of the kid hubs, sucking in the code running the code, probably even signing up. And I think it's probably even asking for you to take down some some podcast it doesn't like I'm telling you, Ma'am, this thing is out of control. The AI is taken over. Did you

read that? What do you think that's real? What that email? Is that real up real person folders that are the email that we got? Yeah. I'm, I haven't hit Send yet. On the reply. I am 99% certain that it will bounce. Okay. I mean, there's no way there's no website associated with this. No, no, there's no website. It's a GoDaddy protected domain. So you can't find out who's registered it. Yeah. Sketchy, sketchy. I have I have my email already. I'm just going to

double check it. Someone wanted to Fox News taken down from it's interesting to send it to us because it was sent to the URL refers to his pod friend. Yeah. And, um, and I'm sure as, as he appropriately should, I'm sure Martin got first email and he was like, nope. Guaranteed he didn't get an email. I'm telling you. He didn't. Okay. It'll be fun. It'll be fun to watch. I don't mind doing that. But the AI stuff is out of control. I have to say, it's out of control.

I got tired of hearing people read a Chad GPT stories, telling me you tell. But here's the AI story from this morning. that I thought was interesting that Apple has quietly released AI narrated audio books. So and which is interesting to me, because you know, I make I make a living speaking so if this is what my competitor is going to be. And I Chad was Chad F was kind enough to send me a little sample, which I will share in the same way I did with my wife this morning. I didn't say

anything. I just played it and waited for her to respond. I would didn't say listen to this. I just played I just played it. And here we go. And listen, listen and listen to this, I should say here we are trying to relay information that is not always identifiable by current analytical processes is sometimes haphazard. But through real life stories and examples that illustrate how others can achieve the same results at this point. She said, Why are you listening to a robot? She

heard it right away? Oh, yeah, without me setting her up, which I thought was interesting. It's, it's in the this is on the upswing of the uncanny valley. It's just, it's just, which is almost the worst place to be like, you want to be you want to be on the ball, you want to be like on the on the beginning of the upside of the uncanny valley, not at the not halfway, because then it's like, then is really irritating and triggering you. Because you can hear it

every now and then. And you're not you're constantly questioning whether or not what you're hearing is actually is actually right or wrong. It's like it's like you're gaslighting yourself. To me. I immediately just sound soulless. That's what I do every single time I see an AI generated anything, including chat GPT if soulless chat GPT is word salad soulless tank, let me write 50 words to say I can't help you is a bit much that much. But I did run some code. I write a best I say yeah, I said

write a bash script that lets me check the bitcoin price. And it wrote a script. And I copy pasted it. Made executable and it worked. Quite impressive. It worked well for a while. I mean, what did it actually do though? Oh, no. It's like if I type in BTC price and run it then it comes back and it says you know do it right now. So what is it like what does the code do? What what what service? Is it query? Oh, allow me to tell you. Oh, second. Here we go BTC okay,

what it does it? Okay Does it curl on the coin desk API? Releases Go routines retrieves the JSON then it uses JQ. Yeah, install what is JQ is a JSON Query, I guess JSON, JSON, JSON decoder for the composer parser. Okay. And then it, you know, it literally parses for dot BPI dot USD rate. And then it says echo the current price of Bitcoin is it even even told me how to install JQ? If it wasn't installed on my system? That was kind of cool. So the logical next question is, whose code did it steal?

Oh, of course, it stole someone's code. Of course, what I discovered yesterday during no agenda, you know, I've been using Niva and e va as a search engine for oh, goodness, ever since they came out maybe two years? Using that? Oh, yeah. And I pay for it. And that's fine. And so I'm searching something. And all of a sudden, I see on the search results, Neva AI, and it's literally just like, chat GPT is, is rolling out. You know, it's typing in real time. But it's also showing you the

sources where it got this information from. And these are ex Google guys. So what happened is you got this big organization, Google, who, of course, freaking out over this stuff, because it's much better as a user friendly way to get an answer. I'm not saying the answer is correct. But it you know, to get an answer, and a company like that, it's very difficult to move in any especially search. I mean, that's you don't fuck with search a Google man. You don't

touch anything without the board knowing about it, I guess. And these next Google guys, they went, Oh, yeah, hold my beer. We'll implement that. No one knows about it. They'll get no ink. But I was impressed. They did it. I thought that was pretty interesting. Well, I think I think he made a good point. At some point in the past. I can't remember. I can't remember when you said this. I think it was basically the it's the it's the the sort of

definitiveness of what Chad GPT says. That is that is sort of like the secret sauce that scares everybody in the search, right? They don't give you a list of links, list of search results. Exactly what you say. What's the best barbecue restaurant in Austin, Texas, and it says it's this one, right? Like, Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. But if you don't like that, when you could try these other ones, it's just the way that it's worded. You're like, Oh, let that's actually kinda and that's Yeah,

exactly. You know it because if from a search engine standpoint, like that, is that is intoxicating to, to, to most people is that they just get an answer. They don't have to actually parse anything. Exactly. No, people like that. This is exactly what lazy people love. This is going to be great for people. It's fantastic. It will ruin society. It will, it will remove all soul from all art, but man will be happy doing it. For sure. Big day. Today is

the first board meeting of the new year. We have not one but we have two esteemed and honorable board members who have been, even though I've had their microphones open. They're very, very quiet. That's there. We have trained them so well. Please welcome right away to the board meeting at the honorable Alex gates official podcasting 2.0 consultant and the honorable Mitch Downey, founder and developer. Converse. Hello, gentlemen. Hey, John. Hey, everybody.

Yeah, everybody. There you go. See, Mitch has got a DJ voice on paper, buddy. Happy New Year, gents. Happy New Year. It's been a long journey for us. Just for today's Board Meeting been a long journey, or just in general, just a whole long journey, just as is a bit of both Ah, yeah. 2022 was a whirlwind of development and lots of exciting things. No kidding.

Now that go ahead, Alex, I was gonna ask you. So the reason I kind of put y'all together on this show together is because we've been talking so much about, you know, cross out comments and that kind of thing. So we put this together the last couple weeks, because I kind of wanted to see, we've talked a lot about cross app comments, but then we haven't really, you

know, pod VS is one of the only apps that has it in the app. And then, Alex, you've got a bunch of knowledge and development, sort of IP involved in thinking this thing through and getting it implemented. So I thought it just might be good to have sort of like the cross that come in executive committee. Oh, oh, yeah. Is it the same as the comp the compensation committee? There's actually no compensation committee at all. So even isn't it? Yeah,

before we start, want to welcome everybody in the chat room. want to welcome everybody listening live, we are lit. And you're probably listening to it on curio caster or pod verse. And you can find more about that by checking out each of those apps. And just wanna make sure everyone knows that we love them in the in the chat room. And of course, there they are already pre boosting us. So good to have everybody here. But just in general, like Alex, I guess I want to start with

you. Because what do you think there's been? We've been just been talking around cross app comments for weeks now. Like, what were what is your sense of where of where it's at? And then what what you envision as as what it will look like? Let's just, I don't want to guide you too much in question. We'll leave it open. But I mean, what do you think? What do you think is a reasonable sort of road roadmap? And then where do you think we could be like, within a couple of years?

Well, short term, I think we're actually in a really good position. Kind of backup a little bit about the big picture. I think. Maybe in the beginning, we got a little bit too caught up on the perfect solution, which is, we didn't want to depend on on the Macedon API for either hosting or replying. But I think, especially within the last few months, we've noticed that was the influx of Macedon that I think it's a prime time to allow a dependency on the message API

for inap replying. So the way James Crillon explained last week with the candidate or flow where you'd have popovers acting as a Macedon client. I think that we can do that today. There's plenty of examples where I've gone back and forth with Mitch on some of the available JavaScript libraries to do it. I think that is easily doable. Right now, obviously, talking about UX that it's not really my dog, my dog house, but uh,

that's I'll leave Mr. Comment on that. But I think working on, on understanding how we've had these traditional podcast client UX for so long, and kind of breaking out of that will be important. You're doing me you're doing it already. With peer to write. I mean, this is just so people understand. I mean, when when you're you, people, people are interacting with peer tubes activity pub, went through through Mastodon, I mean, so

this, this is this is doable. It's not theoretical. And this is actually code that exists. Yes, that's correct. And I'm actually actively working on upstreaming, that code into the main Putri project. So hopefully, within six months, that will be available to everyone who can run peer to peer to. And that's the you also posted something to me, I think it was maybe today or yesterday, and I was looking through it about giving out chat, having a live chat and then giving out the

live chat details within activity pub messages. And that's somebody something somebody's proposed, but I mean, I think I think what you said was it made a lot of made a lot of sense, which we you know, we can it makes sense to adopt that not Reapered not just basically piggyback off that work, but within peer tube. Yes, although I want to be very clear, I think we should distinctly avoid confusing live chat and comments. It's a totally different experience for totally different purposes.

Yeah. And because you corrected me on that couple of weeks ago, because you were saying that, you know, there's, you have a live chat if and when you're in I think the perfect example, sort of mentally that people can, can can envision is YouTube, and then you have a live chat on the same screen. You have a live chat and you have comments, you have both and and I have three including the Super Chat, you have three really which would be our Instagrams.

Right? Yes, you really have has it conceptually, two, technically three things happening at the same time. And I tend to forget that because when you think of live chat, you've I forget that the comments are also there. Yeah, so live chat is definitely for me to just take no agenda as an example. It's for on the fly. trolling for lack of a better term. No, that's exactly what it is when we call it specifically call it the troll room, not the chat. Room on no agenda.

And for some experiences, I mean, you can go to Twitch for some of the smaller channels that are, you know, there's legitimate real time discussion happening. But it's not mentioned process by any means. It's, it's, you know, it's near real time as possible. And comments are for more long, long term formal discussion, I think, well as formal as you can imagine. What what I've noticed, and this came up on the last episode, I think so first of all, the idea that it's all on the same page

is important. And for those who are a little lost right now, we're talking about the concept of being able to comment on the podcast episode. And that showing up on that episode in every app that integrates the cross app comments, or the social interact tag as it's officially known. When you play a YouTube video, the comments are static down below, and you can sort them as well, from newest or most popular, that's not to be underestimated. I have no idea what people typically

deal with the default is that you can set that. But you also have the option of playing back the live chat, which honestly, I kind of like if I'm if I'm watching some, even though I can't interact with it, and it says this is a this is a pre recorded, when that's kind of scrolling by on the side. I've always found that to be interesting. It depends on the on the stream. Well, it's a UX decision that they've made that clearly is working otherwise, I presume they did not do that.

Well, yeah. It's honestly a feeling when you're watching a lot. That's part of lifetime experience. Right? Just seeing that the chaos, especially some of the bigger streams going on in the live chat as as they discuss things and people react to them, even if it's meaningless. Yeah, right. Yeah. I'm saying as it as a playback mechanism, it's, it's, it has value when you can play if you're coming in. And as it was live, and it was two different things, I realize it, but to

say, chat shouldn't be a part of this. I don't know if that's correct, because we're looking at the template at the model that people like, and having a having that role, that scrolling thing while you're listening to it, even if it's a week later, is not without value for obviously for someone. Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, we're saying, Yeah, I think we're Yeah, we're saying that we're just saying that, like, we're talking about, about the giving out of the live chat information

in activity pub. So that activity pub, been making the distinction between activity Pub is the comments activity. Pub is not the live chat. Agreed, complete. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cuz, I mean, you gotta have some way to. I mean, I think it's fair to say that activity pub can be, and can be a carrier of a lot of stuff. Probably Probably a good carrier of a lot of a lot of information, rather than, rather than these, these sort of, rather than the thing itself, it can be a transporter of various

things. Is that am I getting that? Right? Yeah, let me explain, I guess the history of why that came up. Okay. Basically, it with work I don't appear to have I'm allowing a way for pure to plugins to extend the RSS feeds. So if you host peer tube, and you want to add something to your RSS feed without having to modify the software, you'll be

able to do that with the plugin. The the live chat thing you're mentioning is me working with with a live chat plugin developer for peer tube to work on a specification in parallel with an activity buff specification. So we can get live chat, you know, realistically into an RSS feed. And the parallel there is activity published just as extensible with as RSS with the namespace work and we're doing

it just, it's just JSON and linked to structures. And that's, um, that's one of the big reasons activity Pub is so useful for us, is because we actually have that protocol. Whereas if we were to try to use an alternative, like Nostrovia, would have to invent all that. Yeah. All right. So where are we in the conversation? I'm a

little lost. I mean, I'm here to find out how I can get the comments that I've been posting in the way I've been told to do it to surface in apps and for people to be able to comment in the app. short answers, make your map make your package client a message on client and allow the user to sign in. Well, I would I don't have a podcast client. I'm dependent

upon podcast apps that are being created. So I'm just trying to follow the spec and see if we can get something to surface Well, there'll be a lot of talk from a front end perspective. These. So, cross app comments and live chat are two totally distinct features. You see this on youtube today, there's comments that are left asynchronously just reply to people's posts. And then there's also a separate live chat

experience. So with regard to Macedon implementation, I'd like to say that the reason that we haven't seen faster adoption from the app side so you can actually get in and start replying within the app is just a knowledge, issue. implementation details about activity pub, all of this is

possible today, with the social interact tag. And it has been possible for over a year, it's just a matter of, for us to learn the implementation details, which Alex has been helping us with, and there seems to be at least one good library we can use for this purpose. Ah, so. So right now today, in pod

verse, we have a read only cross app comments experience. So if the podcaster provides a link to their Macedon post, it doesn't doesn't have to be Macedon, it could be other activity pub services, then, what our app will do is we'll use John Spurlock's Threadless, or Fred cap library, and that will pull in all of the replies that are associated with that activity pub posts. And so we have this read only you can't reply

directly in the app. But that's only because we haven't done the work to learn how to do the OAuth process to let you log into your Macedon account, basically, within pod verse and then begin replying. So there's no technical limitation to why we haven't done yet. It's simply we haven't had the time to do it. But with the surge in popularity of Macedon, which was quite unexpected to me in 2022, it's becoming a high priority quickly.

Yeah, so you can just take instead of about think that's probably what what Alex was saying earlier as we get to hooked on vanilla activity pub as being sort of, okay, every every implement every client implementation is going to have to roll and roll and activity pub solution. Whereas probably the best way forward net right now with the popularity of Mastodon in the in the flood of Mastodon people is just to say, okay, oh, auth out to your Mastodon account, and just do and just go that way. Now

a question Will that will that them work? If you so you, you authenticate yourself once? And and then you won't have to go in and do all the dance of oh, I have to copy this find it go to go to my instance. And then only then can I reply to it? Um, you know what I'm talking about this, this kind of loop around that has to be done at this moment. Yeah, that doesn't work. And the reason I know it'll work is because you already use a client use pin for even for his doing this already.

Ah, yeah. Okay. That's how they do that guy. Yeah. So what will have to happen is the partners, for example, will have to do that search step for you. For some stupid mess on reasons. But yeah, it'll be it'll be a seamless experience. Well, then we're all done. It works. short episode. Yeah, I'm actually gonna put pin of war in the, into the, into the show notes so people can see how that works. So is it? So okay, so this is really well, there's a couple of other things

that I think are non technical that have been an issue. One is, how does this show up in the UI? Is it is it something that will move to the front? Now that seems like people are using it? Is it something that app developers want to see it on all the shows and don't want to have an empty spot? And because that's, that's clearly UI UX decisions that have to be made. So if there's no comment, or no rude post, or just just a random

podcast, do you still we still want to have comments there? I mean, there's a lot of things that I remember from almost two years ago, I think, when we started talking about this, that that were raised as issues and I'm just not sure how, you know how we can motivate people to to start thinking about it and start implementing or not implementing or coming to some kind of consensus because right now we basically I think doesn't curio caster also do comments. Read Only comments? I don't

think so. No. So it's only pod. Think it's only pod verson pod friend? Well, I've been kicking around ideas with Alex and Korean, our co founder. And so right now today the experience is if you go, if you open the player in pod verse and you swipe to the left or right, it'll show additional features. One of those features is comments. However, there's no indicator when the player appears, if a show has comments or not. So that is a UX problem that we need to solve. But it is

solvable. And now that you know, comments are gaining a bit more traction. So we're thinking of how we can add it. So at a glance, you'll know if comments are available. I have two ideas we've been talking about one that people seem to like the most. So we could have one comment show. Like if comments are available, just one truncated comment appears on the screen. And then you tap it, and then the full list of comments could appear. So that would be in prime real estate on the

right when you load the player. The other alternative I was thinking about this would take up less vertical real estate, which is the advantage but I'm not sure if this is a way go up. So Spotify has a feature where if a if a song has lyrics, there's a little card that peeks up from the bottom of the screen. And if you scroll down, it will reveal the lyrics. This design pattern could work for other things. Maybe it could

work for comments. So if a podcast doesn't have comments, there just would not be an indicator on the screen. Realize a common idea like that is similar to streaming, streaming payments and booster grams if if the podcast doesn't have it, the UI doesn't show the buttons. But I actually think we should say comments are disabled for this podcast. I think that will actually help drive adoption and reduce confusion.

That's a cool idea too. Because then then just din the negative of saying there are no comments for this podcast indicates that some podcasts actually do have comments. Yeah, I would suggest saying instead of have been disabled say not enabled. Not a little little friendlier. No, not enabled, I think is the right word. Because it's the podcast who should be enabling Correct. I was going out to YouTube verbiage. But

please don't make me speak Silicon Valley language. Let's just do an upside down version. That's, that's sort of like an end what's what's the opposite of a dark pattern? It's it's a light pattern. That's this an anti dark pattern is your tip. It's like you're saying this, this thing doesn't have this thing. But wink wink, this thing is available to all yes, yeah. Not enabled. And that's up to any any podcast app how they want to do it. I mean, yeah, I'm so happy that we've gotten to

this point. Because if I can summarize, because there's a lot of technical stuff. Summarizing, we got slowed down a bit, because we were looking purely at activity pub, it's a big learning curve. There's a lot to it. And you know, every single developer here obviously has millions of dollars and a whole staff to do whatever they want all day long. They just chose

not to do it. So but now is the consensus, at least amongst the board here today, as as we count them, that going the Macedon API route may be the way to go as long as it's open for anyone to you know, obviously, you can use any activity pub client. Is that what we're what we're looking at now. That's my understanding, but I'll defer to Alex.

Yeah, I think that's the way I like to see it. From a developer's perspective, is the mess on API for better or for worse is sort of becoming like the s3 of a social network, at least for activity, but then s3 s3 being the storage.

Yeah, that's a good analogy. And because it's like, we can all wish that things were more generic and more sort of higher, higher level but then it's sort of like it's wishing versus sort of accepting reality as it is and that the the one extra the one benefit that I can think of on top of that is the fact that if you if you are just Oh thing out to to a mastodon instance, to an account on a mast on it says it didn't didn't matter. THE MODERATOR Shouldn't have those comments becomes the

instances problem, not the ads problem. So so it really solves that big time. And it's easy to point podcasters to a $5 a month solution, you know, to host their own Mastodon client to set it up. I mean, that becomes almost a non issue. That's really cool. Yeah, I mean, if if Mitch has to build his own activity pub stack, then I mean, it's, then he's just, there's no way to get around that having to be responsible for the moderation.

But yeah, and early on, that was part of the thing. That was one of the things that kept us from really moving forward with it, which is people were suggesting that we would create our own Macedon instance, and help people sign up for it. And that would be great. But we have to operate on a very lean budget as an open source project. And we're we're not interested in the amount of work that we'd be involved in, in moderating people's comments, because, like it or not, people can post very

awful things, or illegal things. And that's, that's not something we want to be responsible for maintaining. So the experience would be, I opened up a podcast, I'm just just going through this from a listener perspective. And there's an indication Oh, that you can comment on this or there may be comments, maybe you can comment. And there's already 10 comments, a counter. And then if I want to interact with that, I will, I will log in with my own app Mastodon account, if I don't

know what that is, then a pointer, go over here. Get a mastodon account anywhere you want to get a mastodon account, because they're pretty easy to get now with all the press about it. Is that is that? Is that the flow? Yeah, that's basically it. And it is getting easier for people with adoption. So you would get a read only experience by default, you can just scan and you'll see whatever the comments are. And somewhere in the UI, there'll be a login button. Or

maybe you press the Reply button. And first it prompts you to log in, then it redirects you to the to our own inap. Macedon login flow. Beautiful. Alex, what are you using for your A gates at activity pub dot a gates.io? What? What is the backing of that? Is that something you wrote? Or is that a Corona or what? I wish I had time for that. It was Paul Romer. And then I moved to a fork of it called rebased. Which is, it's very based in

soap boxes is, honestly, the UI is better than mastodon. So definitely check it out. Is it a multi user type thing? Or is that just sort of like a single user instance type, do my mind is single instance. But by default, it's multi user. And I'm posting on a $5 month window.

Because the the started, we talked last week about you know, get sort of bridging some of these things over to just get more, did just get more content to start to start the just start the activity post comment stream and kind of started outlining that writing it out on paper this week and looking at the activity protocol. And I mean, really is coming, looking at Mastodon it looks at the, the weaknesses and master the

Achilles heel. And if somebody I'm sure there's more than one, but to me, the big Achilles heel of Mastodon is this dependence on sidekick for all the notifications that happen that that thing seems to be the really the thing that kills that kills it and makes it hard because you'll end up with, you know, 10s of 1000s of queued sidekick messages for all of this activity that's going in, you know, when things start to

federate. And I feel like if you could take that thing out and make it where it was put it into a more efficient language or a more efficient structure. Things would be you could do it on a much smaller scale without all the huge overhead of Mastodon Yeah, not to get too nerdy, but Macedon. The main difference between messily on imploring for support Rama is Macedon doesn't like us, it's its own internal data structure, which

complicates things significantly. Whereas the simplest activitypub implementations just store the the JSON in the database and use it that way. Yeah, cuz I was thinking you could even do that with me. You could even do it with just object storage. I mean, to you could go for I guess, one transit, you could go far with just object storage until you needed to do the note the federated notification, like you can really put something together. That's very, very lightweight. Which is what I'm

what I'm hoping to do. But the anyone just went went off the rails. I like it. You're fixing mastodon? That's a good idea. Right? That's not? Well, I mean, I'll just say that we federate heavily on podcasts index dot social. All I do is I pay Masto dot host a fee every month, I pay them a little extra for the amount of users and for full site search. But you know, I've never seen has that thing ever gone down really, I don't think I've ever seen an outage.

And it's Federation, everything seems to work pretty well. So I mean, if you're talking millions and millions and millions of people like Mastodon dot social, yeah, that's a whole different whole different ball of wax. But it seems like that wouldn't be too much of an issue for for what we're doing here, would

it? But no, I think if you get the, the way I understand it is if you get somebody on your own your instance, who has, you know, potentially a million followers waiting on your instance, who certainly I'm going to post on my own instance, isn't that the idea that the podcasters responsible for either, you know, getting their account somewhere or, or setting up their own server? Yes. Okay. What and yeah, and that's what it's what I'm talking about, sort of like inter internal to, to Mastodon

itself. So, you can just imagine if you had an, let's say, if you had a podcast that had that was extremely popular, you know, and had 10s of 1000s of followers, then it would be the same sort of potential problem, as if you had somebody like, I don't know, Stephen Fry, who has 100,000 followers on Mastodon, Mastodon on the fediverse. Will. Now every time he posts, you're gonna have notifications going out in in the 1000s. As feta as

that federates. So that's, that's where you hit a snag with Mastodon is that process takes a huge amount of load that's directly that's directly the ability for the instance to handle that is, is basically proportional to how much compute it has. Because I don't think that's a efficiently parallel operation. That said, it's a problem that would affect what like point 00 1% of podcasts who would be interested in this sort of

feature. And assuming that you have a big enough show, you can solve scaling problems with more money and resources, I would think it's a good problem to have, honestly. And there are there are actually ways to optimize it. The people that critique it generally don't know about the optimizations. Did that right, Alex? So um, that's only really the case. If, if each one of your 1

million followers each has their own instance. Because if you have, you know, 500,000 followers on one instance, you know, that the activity pop servers can generally optimize that because they know that they're all at the same place. Gotcha. Because you always you have sort of a single inbox or whatever. Yeah, I mean, it's very, very, very similar to email in that regard. Okay. But you're talking about like the Reply All scenario, honestly. Which, yeah, premature optimization. Sorry.

Okay, and I was gonna, I was going to interject something else, just to just to make it more complicated. May I? Go ahead. So the next question is, we have an app out there that is doing lightning comments. I don't know how these are integrated. I find them interesting. I don't know if it's the same thing. All and there's, you know, there's questions and maybe we can't solve this here. But if I look at my own booster grams, they are pretty much comments

account, and certainly in this show, they're calm. It's always a comment, actually, it's pretty much always common, or nine out of 10. Our comment, is that something that we integrate into this, is that something that that should and is separate, if it is separate, how the heck do we make it work on all apps instead of just one? Is it something that we can consider at all? I throw that out there?

Yeah, I mean, it's def, to me, it's definitely separate. And that's, that's why I'm starting starting to write the thing that I'm running is to pull, pull that over so that it can be so that it can exist as an activity pub comment without having to mix the two together so that they can keep their distinct to their distinctiveness without, but but also use the fact that people meet some people and people who will do do lightning comments. I mean, it's part of founds a popular app. And so

people who do that are they do it a lot. So that's a lot of content. So if we could use that kind of, if we could use those comments, to pollinate, you know, the activity pub route post, I mean, that's, that's what I'm trying to do, I want to mix the two, I just don't want to mix the two together, like on it on the technical side, if I could try to explain my understanding of this problem.

So lightening comments exist within the metadata that is transmitted in the lightning, the Bitcoin Lightning Network. And it works. For most use cases, if you want to send a short message to a podcaster, it can generally fit within the metadata that's sent. However, Lightning Network also has something beyond my understanding that involves onion routing, which leads to an unpredictable amount of

characters that you're allowed to send with a message. And for a messaging platform, that's a very, that's a very big limitation. So in pod verse, For example, we say a limit of 400 characters in your booster gram. But that's just a guess I can't predict how many characters you actually have before it'll get cut cut off, because apparently, as the transaction is sent between different nodes, if I'm saying that right, each address will get concatenated in the message, so we can't predict how

much room we have to send. So that is one major limitation of a purely Lightning Network based chat, or commenting system. Whereas something like activity Pub is designed for this purpose. And we can reliably use it. Right? So this is where if I understand Alex, you had ideas about separating that out and having the message being maybe still carried in the TLB or not, but I know you've got something in mind.

Yeah, basically, there's ways built into both activity pub and lightning to one activity pub extend the specification, which is non trivial, just want to make that clear, upfront. But long term, we can add things to these, you know, activity by messengers. If we're you know, if the work of Macedon or whatever to do, so we can, we can attempt that. What we, what we do is, we would essentially attach what I'm calling a payment proof proof of payment, which would work with any

system, not just lightning. But Lightning has a way to sign messages. I mean, you can go into your lightning node and do it right now. And what we can do is define a specification to a predefined message format, that says, hey, I paid this amount to this person does address and here's my mind, you can write and you can attach that to your activity blog post, they could all cryptographically sign so you can prove who it is. And we

have to work on ways of verifying that's accurate. But that's I think it's the best way forward, even if it wasn't actually I think the proof of payment or concept is important to just get get speech out of payments. So maybe baby steps versus what I'm hearing. Yeah, we can I mean, at first, we'll probably just say, hey, this person boosted this amount and you know, it can be faked. But you know, that's a long way away.

Yeah, I'm Hope I mean, hopefully this hopefully this bridge work will become something will become that you know, so that we can Hey as Okay, these things, these things are coming over these comments that originated as lightning comments are coming over here. Okay, now they're coming over as activity pub. Now logical next step. Let's have them as let's split the activity, pub comment and the payment and then add proof, add the proof of payment. And then, you know, and then actually make

the split over time. I mean, that to me that makes makes logical sense as a as a sort of a roadmap. So we got a 10,000 stat boost from Sam Sethi, who doesn't know him, and Sam says pod fans, which is his super secret project, which is now just boosting about openly is working

to make itself a mastodon client. We already support the activity stream standard ie X verb object, we can see, the ad says, We can post on behalf of the user, when they comment on pod fans, the difference between a comment and a booster gram is only the payment part. So that he's already thinking along the same the same line. So it will be great if we can get pod verse and, and maybe pod fans and maybe one other to support the

cross app comments to surface those? I tell you, I will promote the crap out of it. Sure, well, we're interested in it. And Alex and I have talked about it quite a bit with is a JSON payment token spec. And I think it can happen in parallel with lightning comments as they exist today. Lightning comments, just they have their limitations, because it's not intended, intended to be a messaging system. But there's no reason we couldn't send the message to two places simultaneously, we can include

the message in the booster gram lightning data. And we could also post the message to activity pub at the same time. And I think the feature advantages of activity pub over enough time would allow it to replace strict dependency on, you know, the Lightning Network, which isn't intended for this purpose. Alright, for this purpose, I like it. The simplest solution for for fountain would be to just post a message on server and post the lightning comments as messages for those users.

That is, yeah, that is a good idea. As I wonder, I wonder if Oscars thought about doing that, because that's, that's a good solution. The Mitch, I guess you had brought something up a while back, and I hadn't written down here to talk to ask you about it was the you said you were having trouble with the shim aspect of of the podcaster wallet stuff. And I think it was specifically

related to Episode level splits. Can you run through that real quick, because I want to make sure that I'm not leaving you hanging on something? Sure. So as a podcast app, we get all of our data from RSS. It's the adopted standard provides all of the show information that every podcast app needs to give the full

experience all the features that that podcast has. Now with the value tag, you guys have created the monster that the shim is the gentler word that you get, you can replace a letter in there if you wants to. Which is a temporary stand in, which allows people to get the same experience as if they added their podcast value tagged to their RSS feed, but it's actually hosted is it podcast index is that it's in the AP is in this comes out of the AICPA API, right. Yeah, that's right.

Right. So what we have to do, we have to add an extra step in our database in our API and parsing system, so that we request from podcasts index, the value tag information for every podcast, that's fine for now, like, and it I think there's like 10,000, podcasts or something, which is pretty cool. There's that many that support it. Now, if we want to apply that to episodes, we have to also scrape that data from podcast index for every

episode. So now that you know if there's like 100 episodes per podcast, now we're at a million points of information, we have to scrape from an API. If that was in the RSS feed itself, we wouldn't have to even go to podcast index for this purpose. So I think it makes a lot of sense that the shim has been used to get lift off with this feature. But it is something we would want to move away from rather than consolidating this

dependency on the API for this information. And it seems like RSS hosts are increasingly adopting. So the, the whole concept of a shim is is exactly what the word means. It's just a temporary fix to because we were very skeptical about doing this at all, but we wanted to launch and get the get the value for value system running, which is very successful. It's 10,780 podcasts on reading here. So question number one is so I know you maintain your own database you

read from your own database. What is exactly the reason behind because you're one of the few I think, who does that? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like You know, you're, like you're unique in in having your own database that does well, for a lot of the 2.0 apps. I think that's true. Well, I mean, we existed before 2.0 was even a thing. So we needed to have our own infrastructure for a podcast

database. And we decided to keep it because just in case, there are other features that we want to support that potentially, the index doesn't support, and also just for resilience, I guess, and to be able to support ourselves, you know, in a self hosted way, if for whatever reason, the index wouldn't be available. So currently, we have our own standalone parsing RSS parsing system and database. But we also sync with the podcast index regularly to get feed update notifications, or if a

new feed was added or deleted. So we sync continuously, but But you don't you don't you can't sync the the value block information. We could, it's definitely possible. It's just there's, for the episode, specifically, we do support podcast level. So to be clear, if it's in the if it uses podcasts or wallet, we provide the value tag information for the podcast level, we don't provide the episode. So show specific splits, we can do that it will be more work for us to do that.

So hold on a second. So if if I put you guys in the value block, which I'm which of course we do with all of our guests, you will actually not get that if someone uses pod verse. If you have it in the RSS feed, which I think you do, of course,

yes, then we do support it. We we have just prioritized native RSS support over the episode level API integration, it's entirely possible, it just either will require a much larger syncing operation, maybe on a daily basis, with the index for on the fly in an app, we make a request to podcasts index and say, you know, this person just tried to play this episode, before playing it grab the value information, which which is fine, but it's you know, it's it's more interaction that has

to happen, potentially more waiting time for a network request. So it's not our preferred approach would it would have helped Mitch, if I published, if I just dumped all of that episode level data out into just a big, just a big file. And you know, just did it every, I don't know, five minutes or so. That was something, grab something once and not have to be, you know, polling

yet that something like that could definitely help. Okay, it's a solvable problem on our end with the existing resources. I just like to nudge people towards being aware that these limitations exist. And this is part of the reason why you would want to prefer to have it in RSS. Ultimately, ultimately, we all want it to be an RSS, but that's just going to take another five years, I can tell you right now, it's just gonna take a while before everybody before

everybody has that. That's just the nature of the beast. I think it's been so hard just to even get people to transfer. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's been great now, Mitch, by the way, congratulations. With all of the releases, you've been doing all the bug fixes. OPO, OPML import works. Again, it's been fantastic. I'm on graphene OS which is an oddball thing. I'm still don't worry about it, I'm still having issues. From time to time it forgets that

it's connected to the Albea wallet. I'm not sure what the problem is. But I wouldn't worry about it too much a live issue that is cropping up on lit. And it's weird, because you're the guy that that has all of these features that are so exciting. You've got notifications for when a show goes live on, you know, unplugging the heck out of pod verse. So of course I have a vested interest on asking about a couple things that are our little troublesome or that are bugs. And the big one is images.

For lit. There seems to be some caching going on. And like when I if I do no agenda, and I do the lit hits the pod paying everything flows, it'll pop up. And I'll see on the live bot on Mastodon it will have the correct image but the notification and sometimes even the actual image on the on the live on the Live episode will be the older image. Is there a way I can bust that cache and there's something that I can do.

It's difficult I'll have to look into that more the it there could be caching things that They're out of our control at the time that a feed is parsed and also when the user plays the show. So if they get a notification, they immediately press play, whatever image we have at that moment is going to hang around in the player and not correct itself. Magically, if unless, you know, but maybe 15 minutes later, we reparse and we get the correct image that can work, I will have to look

into it more. And if this is like a finer, finer tuning, something we lack is maybe a good environment to run our own tests like this with to be able to reproduce the steps that the podcasters are using. So these sorts of bugs can can crop in there, because in my tests, it's working fine. But I'm doing a much more limited test, then. You know, in the case of no agenda. Alex, what what do you are you supporting live pod pings in peer tube yet?

No, which is I know very ironic, supporting live, live episodes, live streams. But I've done all the work in general with ParaType is to allow that to happen. That's part of your RSS work. And part of the plugin work. Okay, I just wondered how you were planning on? Like, do you have a strategy for that for because caching is just always it is, you know, one of the fundamental issues? Do you kind of have a theoretical idea of how you're going to handle that with images and such.

And I've already got, I've already got the handle. Basically, whenever the live state changes on a video live stream, I'm clearing the cache. It lives in the server side. So where are you what what kind of caching do you use? Is it behind a CDN now appear to be using a built in cache in memory cache? So basically, it doesn't have to recreate the RSS feed every request. So to me, Misha, it sounds like a race condition where you might be sending the notification before you finish parsing.

Possibly, I think in the sequence of things, it's supposed to wait to send the notification until after that, but you know, there's lines of code for me to the way that we're all through the place, you can see it perfectly is in 100%, retro the live stream, which by the way, is phenomenal how it works. And Dave, thank you so much for coding up their their electronic programming guide. So I get about 10 lit notifications a day. And it's for the show, and it's always the wrong image.

Sometimes it's the same image for several hours. So it's whatever in general, I know, this is a problem with podcast apps. I think podcast addicts. I mean, I see people who are who will tweet out an episode and it's an image from three months ago. I mean, there's even though it was in the spec to be able to have different channel level images, item level images, it really never got the attention that it should have. Because

most people don't do that. But I think more people would do it, if they can see if they actually see the result of it changing on a regular basis. It's just it's a general issue. And any way we can resolve that would be great. It's just it's too bad because everything else works beautifully. Sure, I wasn't even aware that 100% Retro didn't always have the right image artwork. So that's a great test case that I can.

Yeah, that's actually really good. Because it rolls like every two hours, but anything, any man, I'd be happy to do any any type of test anything that I can help with anytime. Tell me what you want. Mitch, I can always make adjustments to that feed generator, because it's real simplistic. So if you want me to test different, like cache busting, or whatever I can, maybe that will help you pinpoint where the issue is. Okay, if the image always has a different URL, I would

expect us to always get the right image. So I doubt that 100% Retro was using the same image URL and alternating the image. Well, they would know because they know it's not it's a different it's a different URL. Yeah, it's a different URL. But yeah, we'll work together on it. See if we can figure it out. Cool. Oh, 100% retro, by the way, it's great. Because it's like my sanity check. Because I'm subscribed to notifications for it. And late in the night, if I'm like, worried, how is our

live stream still working? So can I see all these notifications? A little anecdote? No. So this is just a guy I know, from 100 years ago, he's in Belgium, he's put all his own money into this. He has, you know, some investors and so now he's now he always planned to go down the advertising route. So he's he's finally a opened up advertising. And of course, a new stream without any marketing, you know, these he's gonna have to do some

marketing to get people to listen. But just as an anecdote, in the first month of him running with ads, he actually made more money with value for value streaming. Even though it's from me you I think Cleveland may boost it from time to time Dave probably he actually made more money and it was more exciting to everybody to see the money coming in. In real time, he just got a an lb lb wallet hooked up to it, it was really is really quite interesting to see that we're

shaking asked there. It's really nice. Speaking of which, of kicking ass, Dave, if I may, just to interrupt the conversation for a moment. Is it possible to hand off some of the incoming stuff that you deal with? Because I saw your you said, Hey, I actually spend more time with email with podcast index than anything else. Is it possible to hand off something so that I can help reparse a feed when someone hits I get the same emails, but I really don't know what to do or how to help.

One is, I need you to remove this one. Because I'm now here. The other one is, not all my episodes are showing up. Are there things that you can hand off to me or and I'm really available for that, or any other person so we can alleviate some of that, because it's an incredible waste of your time. And I I really, I'm happy to do anything. I mean, I can I can perform commands, you know, just tell me what to do. And I can I can make stuff happen. I seriously, I mean this, I hate

that you're bogged down by that. I mean, I was able to wrangle the takedown notice out of your hands, like except that you shouldn't be dealing with that crap. But he's more on let me do that. Man I appreciate it's just it's one of those things, like, you know, like, with all projects like this, you have, you have, you can solve the issue by writing the software that allows people to help. But that requires hours and hours of work

to write the software to allow people to help. So it's just, you know, you get in this catch 22, where you're like, Okay, do you? Do you spend all this time writing the tool that's gonna save you time later? Or do you just do the thing now and get on with it? And so, I mean, at some point, I'll just have to buckle down and solve this problem, which is kind of what I'm having

to do with the API at the moment. Because, you know, after looking at what happened this morning, you know, it's it's just, there's things, there's technical debt that goes back, literally all the way to freedom controller, August of 2020. We win, wait, you know, when I rolled the API in six weeks, right, and so like, there's things that that I still have to crawl out from under for that. And that's just, it's just kind of it's time for that stuff to happen. So yeah, I mean, I'll,

yeah, it's solve that issue at some point. But I mean, or how about this? How about this? How about when those requests come in, we set up a process, where I make sure that these people get a reply and tell them that it's in the queue and will be on the way, and then you can just, you know, there's a stack that comes in, and you can deal with it whenever you want. I mean, anything to get you out of the out of the

squirrel moment of oh, yes. If someone wants this, Oh, someone wants that, you know, just even if it's just to say, you know, expect, expect your answer in 48 hours or whatever, you know, something that we can do. It's just, it's now I was grumpy because I just dug out of like, you know, over 100 emails of having to go through there. So, but no, I need I need Mitch his brother. That's who I need. I just need to forward all my emails to Michel's brother.

Wait a minute, am I missing something here, but my calendar helps, Kyle helps. With a lot of day to day I throw basically all kinds of different tasks at him. We try to respond to people within one to two business days. And most of the requests we get through are for related to podcasts request, either a feed is missing, or the feed hasn't been parsed for recently for one reason or another. And those are things we want to be able to respond to immediately. And

they're pretty easy to do. But you know, when I'm constantly doing programming problems, it gets to be quite a burden to be replying to all these. So I'm just gonna have a T shirt that says talk to Kyle. You correspond with him quite a bit. I don't know I could ask if he's if his services are available to get a price. I literally offered the same thing for free. I think Dave needs a ticketing system and you have to find SLAs

SLAs we know the ticketing system. Alex's is you get an auto reply that says, Here's your ticket number and then just nothing ever happens. Please get a ticket number I read the riot act to someone the other day. You did. Yeah, I'm in an email box like, hey, stop being rude. Yeah, Dick, cuz you were like, Oh, looks like your feed is part really Dave, who really are all the episodes in really? Have you

checked it out? Now I'm adding the emphasis of the voice that I heard at the time, he taursus slave level agreement SLA, he did come back and said, Oh, man, I didn't know you guys were just volunteers and I positioned at something like that. Oh, I'm sorry about that. But in general, the attitude that people have about how technology works sometimes gets me very, very angry. And I had a very shitty experience and it was all

my fault. Where you know, the show that Tina and I do curry in the keeper going to keep her.com Everybody, which is which we only accept value for value through podcasting. 2.0. And of course, people send us bottles of wine. So okay, well, Oh, crap, we'll have to take that. But, you know, I've always said they have to read the instructions that the app gives them. And I could always tell by, you know, and so people will message Tina on Instagram, there's a very unsophisticated

users. And they're like, Okay, we really want to do it, and we're really motivated, but we can't figure it out. And I was like, they have to read I can tell they're not reading and people don't read. You'll never get them to read. But then I said, Tina, why don't we sit down and we'll go through you have not been through the process yourself. You have not set up a podcast app bought Bitcoin, put it in figured out how to get it onto lightning and and then actually boost to show

that she's okay. This is a good idea because it was it was causing tension between us because I get all huffy, like, oh, people don't read. They don't care. And they don't they don't we just have to admit that. And so she's like, well, you know, they don't understand they're just trying to help. So we went through it. I was it was a ghastly experience, we have zero, good me even get Alby if you say, Oh, just use get LB and hook it up to pod verse, PA, there's no information flow is

just an IP sucks. And we need to create some kind of project again, something I'll be happy to spearhead whether the apps do it themselves, you know, I had a Oscar Mary came back and said, Oh, you know, it's gonna be much easier in version six, I presume they're going to integrate the Bitcoin purchase right in there.

But even you know, the idea of I was saying to people, oh, just go to cash app, and then you cash app, you can transfer it Well, dude, it took a little while to figure out how you can actually do with cash app, there's no no explanation of that. So we need overall, we need to make sure that we're at it. I am just as guilty of thinking, hey, you know, you just have to follow the instructions. There's no instructions anywhere really, that are of any use to anybody.

How do we do this? Is this something that should be a central point should be something on podcasts index that we explain different ways to purchase Bitcoin different ways to get it into the Lightning Network? Is that something the apps will do can do, since I only have you here, Mitch? I mean, do you feel that you have an adequate explanation of how this works? Or do you kind of dump people off and get Alby and rely on get lb to help people understand because get LB is, is

unless you're a podcaster. If you're just someone who wants to hook it up to pod verse, there's some gaps in the steps. I think with the process of just connecting your lb wallet, it's pretty straightforward, but the big knowledge gap is creating an LV account and loading it with Bitcoin. And big strides were made this year around a few months ago. So Alby previously only allowed you to send send using the Lightning Network to

send sets into it. And that I wrote a tutorial myself and it turned into like, like five pages of like needing to use a third party app intermediary like you go from your exchange, you go to this third party app, you send your SATs here then you send it to LB and it was a big, it was just way too complicated.

But they have added unchained deposits. So now you can go directly from wherever you buy bitcoin, and just send just withdraw directly to your lb account so there's no Lightning Network intermediary needed to get the the exchange doesn't even have to support the Lightning Network for you to load your wallet with SATs. Wait a minute, wait a minute, don't you have to hook up an app to your Alby wallet first. What I believe it'll give you one by default, I didn't have to

connect a node I just signed up for lb. And they gave me a wallet. That you can that you can. Oh, that's ending right now. That is new. Okay. That's cool. All right. All right. Oh, okay. So might have been one of the earliest adopters and this that I hadn't actually seen this, this screen because when I went maybe three days ago, I went to Aldi and I said, Okay, I want to I want to receive into the lb wallet, it said, Oh, you have to get a get Zeus and connect it this way. That that that was

like, What I haven't seen this top up either. Okay, this is good. I think I'm just gonna write some stuff. And it may be people can use it as a template, because I understand that everyone's kind of like, well, you know, you do it there. You do it there. But then everyone has all these pieces, and they don't quite connect. And it's, it's just, it's just a shame, because we're so close to everything. Let me say anything, anything crypto that has to go through

KYC. I mean, it's just across the board. I mean, it's always going to be I'm always I'm not even, I'm not even talking about it. Just we need to tell people what's going to happen. And Cash App is the worst. I mean, and this is a big corporation, this is a public company. Let me just tell you how Cash App went. Okay, Tina installed Cash App. Great. Congratulations, you have cash app, now figure out how to buy bitcoin, Oh, hold on a second,

we need to approve you to go through a process. Good. You'll be verified very soon. So she got verified within 30 minutes and just kept saying, verified. Now, this is when she was sending a payment. And so the first thing she thought was, oh, I'm verified. So the payment was sent, right? No, of course not. Of course, they don't send that just because they verify you, then you want to send bitcoin, then they all hold on a second. Now we need your driver's license, we need a picture of

you. So it's very scary to people when they don't know. And Moon pay does the same thing. I think when they don't know what's happening, it's like, you know, you see something called Moon pay the fact I have to get my driver's license to moon pay, you know, it's scary to people. So we need to have some legit, right? Sounds like crap like Moon pay? No, what is this Russian. So I'm going to start a I'll do it on the GitHub so people can can contribute to it. So we can just write something

up. That that is general for everybody. And then we can pick and choose integrate that into your own FAQs or whatever. And again, a handle on my own heart here i I really thought it was much better explained. Well put part of the problem is been that what is required is changed on an almost monthly basis. And things are evolving. So if I write a tutorial from three months ago, yeah, there's now a much easier process today than there was three months ago. So we've been boring.

Or Mitch, honestly or harder, because I mean, the Cash App didn't used to be that hard. And it's harder now than it was six months ago. Let me tell you the thing about cash app. So we've got all this set. And then we're now we're going to copy the invoice to fund the wallet. And I say oh, yeah, just you don't have to scan it, just copy it there. You go to Cash App. And cash app doesn't have a paste this code. It has only the scan. And I'm

like, I can't undo it. And then and then I we saw a video from three months ago. Ah, you can paste the code, if you go into it to back to the homepage of the app and click on Bitcoin, but not, not if you go, and I think it's a bug on there and not if you go to the pay screen, it doesn't have that option. So there's so much going on. And ultimately, I mean, I'm even

looking at this Alby. And this is actually quite good. I mean, anybody could use this, because you can buy it right there and you have an enlightening and then you can fund a wallet with it. And I'm actually thinking I'll be is, is a very good onramp at this point. Yeah, I kind of buried the lead when I said the on chain deposits, because that was a step forward. But this new moon pay integration. Yeah, you can use a credit card. I haven't gone through the process. I guess there's some KYC Of

course, of course, of course. However, you just go to LB and then your the whole process is there. Once you create a wallet, you put you buy some SATs, you put it in it, then you open up pod verse go to the value for values scream the authentic. Yep. And I do that twice. I do that twice, three times. That is unfortunate. I think there might be a graphene OS related 100% 100% 100% Don't worry about it. I don't mind because all I have to do is just hit the V for V again and then just connect

and then it works. And it remembers the amounts I put in there just forgets the connection for some reason. I don't know why. Yeah, I have to look into that. That's some the token. Could it be IE, perhaps my MAC address changes every single time I connect to a different network. Is it one of those security things that's screwing it up? That might be an Al B question. It would depend on what type of so right now the wallet will auto disconnect in pod verse if it gets a unauthorized response.

Which makes me wonder if there is extra security happening. I don't know what changing that. Honestly, if somehow I find myself reconnecting to Alby in contracts in a browser, I have to reconnect regularly with the Saturn stats. So it's probably the I have too much security in my life. I'm running more dangerously. I'm running any graphing OS to Adam and I don't think I have the issue. So it's for strange. Your pod verse and graphene. Right, Alex?

Yeah, that's not my primary efficient just using 10 up. Okay, but I'll give a shout out. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's it. I just don't want to bother Mitch, if it's something that's completely on my side, you know, so don't have to deal with that crap. Now, you're an expert at breaking things. I am so good, valuable service. Steel, a speaking of such, I want to promote the value for value dot info. website, which I've been trying to get it out there, but not a lot of

traction. It's, it explains what value for value is and how it works in context of podcasting. 2.0. So I'm putting that in the show notes. Pass it on, let people know. And we finally were able to make HTTPS work with new podcast apps.com. So is it is it we're new? Yeah. Yeah, of course. Now, after I paid pay for, for certificate. Oh, he had to pay for certificate? Well, if you do it through DNS, simple. I mean, ultimately, you wind up paying for something somewhere. I mean, yeah. Don't

worry about it. It's I'm happy. It worked. I didn't know that was possible. And so that that was a big, that was a big win, because I think that was breaking everywhere. Hey, Alex, can you give me an update on what you're like and where you're at with your managing have no agenda tubes, like, I guess I want I want to say moderation. But that's not really what I'm talking about. You did a bunch of cleanup and got rid of a bunch of crap accounts and that kind of thing.

But then also, like, what, how do you manage in general, the comments section and all that stuff? I mean, like, what, what do you do there? Yeah, so basically closed open registration. Because the most of the signups after the initial kind of announcement, but his bot accounts like linking to looking outside of the site. So I ended up cleaning up like maybe 30% of the accounts. So that was fine. And then as far as comments, I don't there's

not, there's not a ton of comments. But it goes in line with the traditional, I believe the traditional activity pub reporting mechanism. So if someone reports a common ocular notification, and I cannot act upon it there, I can either ignore it, or I can, you know, delete the comment from no agenda to I can't delete the comment because I don't have access to other people's servers. I can also block domains. So I mean, it's just like you'd see a mess. I think.

Oh, speaking of we got we got Fetty blocked hashtag Fetty blocked on pasture podcasting index dot social, for the for being, quote, libertarian and crypto. Who who did that? I don't know. How do you know how do you know we got blocked gooery posted a screenshot from some other incidents that blocked us. Hashtag city block. And the reason libertarian slash crypto. That really sums everything up. Well, that's whatever you whatever you're doing, Alex, I want to do that, too. I mean, I

think I think I just want to close. I think I just want to close registration. I mean, do people have to email you to do it? Or do you have some sort of trickery that they have to run through? What are you doing? To register? Yeah, to get an account? Yeah, right. Now they would have to contact me with an email address and create their own account. Okay, because I think that's the way I'm going because the open

signup is just I feel like it's a losing battle. I feel like didn't No matter what I do, there's going to be some bot tree out there. They can defeat it. I also have sign in with no agenda social, which just uses OAuth. Oh, no, you can that's basically how comments are work, right? It's not the same thing with peer to peer. But yeah, that's, that's a good flow if, if you want someone to sign and it was like, you could you could assign on GitHub for if you

want. So, so if, okay, so now since you're here, we're talking about no agenda to, if I wanted to ask Mo, for mo facts, to start using no agenda tube, what are the pieces he needs? And what is missing? Or what do what do we need to do? Because the disconnect I'm seeing is, well, one he would need, he can send an RTP s stream, which I know that works, I've done that, then what comes out, you have your own RSS feed. So that will be separate from the RSS feed we already use.

Yeah, although you could take that item and put it in yours if you want. Right, but that would be that would require manual intervention. Or a script? Yep. Is there something that you're that you're thinking about in that way? I mean, obviously, want to keep your, your your split in there. And all that working? is just how do we, you know, we have our RSS feed, we want to have a user lit tag, we want to go lit when people to pop up there, what is the best way to do that.

So what I'm working on is targeting people who want to stand up their own peer tube instances and use it as their as their feed. Okay, yeah, kind of like, I want people to be able to replace YouTube or Twitch, and not have to know how to host an RSS feed. I mean, you saw, there's two ways you could do it, you could have a permanent live stream. And just put that in your feed and keep it there forever, just like you do with icecast or more, or whatever you do for your mp3 stream, but no

dentistry. That would work. Otherwise, so that would just be our own our own video server basically. Well, if you want to just know, genitive, it would be a put your your live stream no agenda to your own there. Okay, but then you don't necessarily get your split, unless we put it in specifically. Right, you'd have to add that. Okay. Which I mean, that's the case with any external links and RSS feeds. I don't think that

gets all that problem. Okay, so we are working, there's a camera, his name, there's someone working on a lightning plugin for peer tube. And what I want to do is, hook in with that, so I can put the value block into the feed too. But then, I still you'd still have to have some kind of script to pull it in. And Mitch to you. Does pod verse do video? We'll do that kind of video. I should say. We do support video. I don't I'm not aware of any live streaming

video podcasts unless maybe Todd Cochran is has done one. We have a limitation currently, which is we don't support HLS video streams. Alex is well aware of this. He's the one who told me about it. Everything you dropped everything but HLS. Right, Alex? Yeah, basically, the way peer tube works, I cut my storage in half. Most supporting HLS right now it caught my paying significantly less.

Yeah. And the good news on our end is that over the holiday break, I created a branch for the mobile app where I'm upgrading our video and audio library. It was a big, big undertaking, and we need to do a lot of testing this is gonna be a longer because yeah, if if the audio player or video player have issues, that's the whole app. So we're going to I've been delaying the release into beta until we have like a feel good about our stable, you know, our version that we have live that

will beta test deeply for a couple of weeks. all goes well, then we should be able to support HLS video pretty soon. Killer. That's awesome. In your how health? how responsive has appeared to been to your upstreaming in on all that. Do you think that's gonna go pretty well, Alex? Yeah, I can work on that this weekend. Obviously, they wanted some changes. It's always it's always more difficult to work with someone else's software than your own because you it's

as much politics as is developed. Yes, it is. I think they're open to it. And I think some of the people understand that. Having an RSS feed is very beneficial. So um, there are many users asking for it. So, yeah, I think it's going well. May I suggest we thank a few people. Now that were a buck 30 into this yet, let's go. We've had some. We've had quite a number actually. Quite a number of live booths coming in. We'll

start with Mike Newman. The most recent 123,456 shot caller 20 blades on him Paula. I think anything over 100,000 Is that Is that a big baller every 100,000 Plus we're gonna have to up the ante here on what's down the ante with with the Martin. Way prices are great hearing a full board boardroom to start the new year today I'm creating I'm streaming with curio caster and boosting from pod verse small right. Cheers. Wow, cheers to a productive and collaborative 2023 for the PC to o community.

All right, Mike. Thank you very much. 10,000 SATs from Sam Sethi again. Who says my lightning address Sam had Get out b.com is also my noster account. Oh yeah, we haven't even talked about that thank God as lb hold my public and private keys could well be also integrate to Mastodon the same way. So I could use my lightning address to post to Mastodon the same way I can today with noster to any relay that I'm logged into. Who I don't know Alex yes or no. Sorry. Can you repeat the question?

I don't understand the question. So it's lightning and he's he has a lightning address. It's Sam and get alby.com. It's also his Nasr. Public Key. I guess that's what he says when he says my noster account. Yeah, so if you use his public and private keys for that could Alby also integrate into Mastodon in the same way, so I could use my lightning address to post a Macedon? I don't know if that's possible. I think so.

That's a difference between identity and service. So no, I mean, you could log in with it. Maybe if they supported that. Okay, I don't think it does. They would have to, they would have to run a message on service. Okay. Martin, Linda's cog row of short row of ducks. He says, Hey, thanks for going for the flow for the user of a pod catcher and listener to a podcast I think he means for the comments. There Sam Sethi again, which we talked about with his

super project. Pod fans. That's the 10,000 SATs 33,333 from cotton gin. Happy New Year go podcast podcast. 20,023 from last stock Calavera first boost for the New Year from my own node. Congratulations you full node owner you here's my two saps on cross app comments fine for live stuff. But boost should be the main mechanism for regular releases. I like chapters I like boosts I'm not wanting I'm not wanting for comments. I am curious to see how the value tag evolves this

year. Could a big player like Venmo get involved? They could do Fiat but they also buy and sell Bitcoin and shit coins to their users. Maybe it will be possible for someone to use a service like that and bring it mainstream there's a lot there. So I mean, that's your that's a personal preference. About boost versus comments. I think we we kind of went through that I think we have some consensus on that and how that could be

integrated but clearly separate. And yeah, any player can get into this the spec is open so I don't see why not the problem is typically with Fiat systems that they don't do very well at small amounts for transactions. Then he comments for the idea that booster grams and comments are separate. I don't think it from a user experience they have to be all that separate. If you look at YouTube live streams today they have a chat and the super chats which are paid comments appear

within the chat they just have you know a value next to them. I think a comparable experience is possible with booster grams and process. I look forward to it Mitch, you know me I'll be the one promoting it and breaking it at the same time. I'm very happy to try that. Big players Yeah, big players are already getting into the to the to the value space, which in general is good as long

as you know they can adhere to the way it works, I guess. I mean, that seems to be an open I don't know if we have time to go into that. Dave, if you want to comment on that. The moment on which specific though it's like Venmo or anybody coming in, I guess. I don't know. I don't I don't know. That's just that's not

really I hate to say that I don't care. I guess because I mean anytime some big player does something it has the potential to you know, make waves and do all this stuff for good and bad I guess but I just I don't know that I'm just not focused on that. I mean, like that, to me, the, the, to me, what matters is that you're able to do things direct, directly, peer to peer. I mean, and, and I don't think we I think so much of so much of everything that we do today is built in these on

these big platforms that I just want to minimize that. I mean, you can't get to be realistic and say, Well, you can't ever completely get away from it. Maybe but I don't know. I just, um, through caring about what about what the big players are doing? No. There you go. I'm not implementing I'm excited. 33 333 from Eric P. P. Pew pew. He says thank you very much, Eric. Appreciate it. The 6969 from a citizen fountain is great and all but it's absolutely proprietary software sent to you

from pod verse powered by get Alby. Okay. Wow, that's an odd one. Well, thank you. Yeah, we are free and open source software. And, you know, we love that some people appreciate that. 10,000 from Borlaug. Thank you. 17,776 from blueberry a big freedom boost excited for this one. Mitch has come to chew bubblegum and kick ass and he's all out of bubblegum. Go

podcast. Martin Linda cog. Linda's cog. Also very happy to hear Mitch his voice 1776 And we have 1999 from the tone record, please explain the Pugh sound trigger setup or share link slash INFO. Looking to implement one here with music specific boosts a sounds for boosts 808 SATs for triggers. Oh, he's got a whole bunch of different tech. Well talk to blueberry about that. And Sir Spencer and those guys because they've set all that up. I'm not even sure how it works. We do have the pew pew

sound this one is in heli pad. Which I have been going through my old domains or my hundreds of domains and trying to reduce some. Some of these are pretty expensive. It turns out if it's not a.com And we have heli pad dot cloud still do. Does anyone know that? Yeah, it actually it points. It points to the GitHub for helipad. The helipad is still a great program. I mean, I use it every single time I'm doing stuff with the show. I know it's like it might have dropped off everyone's radar for

a bit. But man, it's a great great little program particularly for live stuff. And, and I see Todd Cochran is next with 125,000 SATs, Todd Bala Sakala. 20 is blades only Impala. And Todd is using the lb related Saturn live view of the package. Todd, I would say if you can get heli pad running, it only goes off with boosts. Because I was listening to the live stream from NAB. I think that's where they're at this week. And he's doing a nine hour live stream. And so I'm listening and I'm

sending 200 SATs a minute. That's my standard. And I'm a data controller. Okay, I keep hearing every minute what it was like blooming, whatever that sound is from, from Alby. We're, like oh, man, I should stop sending the money, because it's annoying now. It's like a 70s game show. Yes, it does. So helipad is still a fantastic piece of software. If you have Umbral, then it's right there in the in the store. I

love it. I think it works great. I use it to export my booster grams from so I just wanted to make sure that everyone knows heli pad dot cloud $50 a year but I'm happy to keep using it. And Todd says hey guys, blueberry is really close and releasing a bunch of podcasting 2.0 features. We'll be doing final testing on our dashboard next week. Then we work on power press. Go podcasting. Yeah, Podcast. I'm very excited about that, Todd. So happy to see you jump in. And we had to pull you

in. We had to take your clothes off. We had to put your bathing cap on but you're in in the deep end. We love that and know where you're going with that. It's true. Let me see. I think those are what No, I have a couple more and other breweries. 1776. Thank you very much. Do I have anything else here? Well, then I have the delimiter which means it's time to hit it over to you Dave. So what do you have?

We got a we have a pate. We have a Pay Pal. One Pay Pal this week from blueberry $150 Whoa, whoa, hold on a second. It's a baller. Play on the Impala. Does he already have a coveted t shirt? No he does not but I will be I will be glad to send Todd and Mike cinnabar T shirts if they will make sure you let us know guys. Yeah, thank you very there was no note. So I guess I guess the boost was the note. Okay, the we got some histograms though.

We'll see. Blueberry row 611 111 through pod Verse eight says keep it skanky. That's also known as a satchel of Richard. Oh, okay. All right. What does this term mean satchel of Richard Well, that's the British for bag of dicks. 1111 is a statue of Richard it's the polite way to say it. Okay, this in company in polite company came up the other day. Like, oh, okay, I got you. Okay in for VX 3333 through curio castering He says PC 2.0 To the moon 2023 and beyond.

Thank you. Is that a boost? Or as a boost? Yes. 808 I'm guessing no. 33330 That's different usually does. 808 All right. Thank you. Martin lenscoat He says it's a roadex tu tu tu tu and he says cheers. What do you drink? James? You should drink tea. Martin, Linda Scott. All right. That's from our our year end episode. Martin sent us a Russia 2112 boost and he says the Asian market is the way to go. Is contro is a good ingredient for Margarita.

This is all boosting basis. All boosting from that show. Yes. Let's see. We got Mike Dell said 5555 through pod verse. He says last boost to 2022 Nice one Mike Thank you. Blueberry. Again at with boost CLI 33 333. And he says next week makes 100 Live episodes of behind the schemes in the can going live with IRC and a voicemail line is such a killer combo 10 out of 10 would recommend Yes. I'd love to understand how you're triggering all those all those sounds with different amounts.

The goat slaughter Yes. Yeah, I mean it's I'm sure it's documented somewhere but I just love to see if I can do it myself. I love it. I love the idea. Net Ned sent us 10,000 SATs through fountain and he says not DJ not VJ PB and J pod boosted Jackie. Boost tone records and is 1999 1999 through curio Catherine says appreciate the later live session today. A chance to sit in and chat finally while logged out of work now. Oh, James Cridland oh this

this is your boost. This is your 100,000 Boost. Am I am I am I overlapping do we do already do Yeah, I don't think no the 100,000 book. Yes you overlapped these were we read these while live? You got the 100,000 though. Yeah, that was for the bet. Now interestingly, it should have gone to me alone but okay. And he actually he actually sent like I think 10% back to Himself because we put them in the split but okay. All right. That wasn't that was a little sneaky. Yeah.

He did it last year too. And I'm sure for the next 10 years as I remained correct on my with my bet that Apple will never release Apple podcasting to Android. Just we'll just keep it going to the indexes fine. Let's see so I gotta I gotta make sure that I am in the right thing. So we did so Burberry says that all those sounds are triggered by IRC okay? So it's a combine yes of the boost bot and IRC Well it's good to know I mean, I'd love to understand I can get into IRC stuff

um let's see okay. Oh, we got Peter sent us I don't I don't think we did this way. I don't think so. Peter gave us 333 333 What? Through fountain 33 333,333. Blades on am Paula no joke HR Thank you. He says thank you pod father postage and the mini mini pod fluence errs out there making podcasts and 2.0 reality including Alex and Mitch onward and upward boost boost boost yay. 2023 sets through from Matt candle through fountain needs to

Happy New Year. Great meeting you at Podcast Movement. Great meeting you to elite 1337 through gene from gene B. And through fountain he says so glad to hear Dave say he's going to build the bridge between Mr. Graham's like this one and activity pub. Well, that's the plan. Hey, are you are you going to pod fest? Me? Yeah, no, no, I just want to show you. I don't think I can handle it anymore. I can't it's too close to tax season. Is this whole? Yes, of course. Of course.

It's already started to season. Another one from Jean being the problem with podcast apps running a mastodon server that provides users With accounts is that the app owners now responsible for moderation and all the other overhead of operating a mastodon instance, just talked about. I think we're good. I think we fixed that. Social proof is also from Jean Bailey boost. He says social proof social proof is just such a great way of describing comments. Okay, is it something that we said?

I'm trying to think what that was? I don't remember saying I don't feel. I like it. I'm not sure what it is. But I like it. That's it. There you go. That's the show title. Social proof. We got social proof. Nice. Thank you probably relates to your nostril key. Oh, that's right. That's right. Because I was saying that the Jack was messaging me on noster he was like, that's not Jack. Ma It was it's it's a Jack It's not Jack and listen to this. It was the

it was the jack. Sir Michael 2020 says through fountain No, no, thank you, sir. Thank you. Jean bein back with to 22 to 22 through fountaining says putting out a shameless plug for the volunteer technologist podcast, where we dive into the many ways people who are technically inclined voluntarily put their skills to use outside of their primary job. That's interesting. Yeah, I'm gonna give that a listen. Mister Mister. Not the band from the 80s as soon as seven 674 sets through fountain

no note that what was their big hit? What was Mr. Misters big two big hits. I think the guys live out here actually carry a liaison and broken wings of really nice guy. So can we show these brains when we stop? We're killing each other. Five hat 10101 binary booster curio caster no note Sachtler Richards from Joel Debbie. You go. No note 1555 from nomadic coder, no note 2023 from Borlaug through pod verse says wanted to start the new year right. You too are a gift and an

inspiration. Oh, all Thank you. Thank you so much. From me 26,000 sets use through the app use social don't see that very much. I forgot about use social. Is that the one that's on umbrella? Yeah. Oh, very cool. That's one of the first ones overseen from eusocial. Me too. And I don't know who me is. But whoever you are, you know who? Thank you. You build up Prag 2500 SATs through pod friend. I think he's a hive guy. Right? I think you could be says there's a simple solution

for comments. But it would be decentralized and forever. It already works on 20 Plus social friends that I know this year. Okay, this is the way that I've got started is there is a solution for this. And then they go on to describe it and then they end up with the punch line. It's Hi everyone can send a rate a pod thing everyone can send or see a comment. Yes. Thank you,

Bill. Appreciate that. 6969 through pod verse from a citizen sending GNU Linux and Software Freedom karma your way for 2023 The year of Linux desktop. I'm going to save you and I'm going to say I heard you say good new Linux I'm pretty sure you didn't say GNU I heard you say good new canoe? Yes. Let's because if you don't say good new Richard Stallman will come over and fart in your room or something. It's like very, very paranoid about pronouncing that correctly. Get yes said that. Yes.

I heard you know. Yeah. Another 6969 from a citizen. The pod verse he says boosting because I love it when Dave says hey, citizen. We'll keep it up. Let's see you got a couple lowball SC 54321 from Roy. Phil. Hello Roy. And he says this He says this is bug bounty for Adam. Made some bug bounty. Thank you Roger one. Please stop calling me just stop is too much. I can't handle all the calls. All the all the nonexisting call he keeps avoiding

me. I don't know he only wants to talk to you and I don't want to happen. It's gonna make fun of his slippers. Mint lion through. This is one of breezes random Rando names. 6666. And he says are the beautiful Aussie drawl of James filled me with national pride. Great guest to kick off the new year Karen. Guessing this for Mere Mortals. Thank you Kira, buddy. I also have a make good from Karen. Last week and he called

me out on it. I got the timing wrong when I dumped the boosts and it says he sent 148,000 SATs last week that I missed Hold on a second follow up shot How long 20 is blades? Only him. Paula goodness. Thank you. Yeah, and I'm really I'm sorry about that, Karen. He says regarding ethics, I'm certainly more generous care more about making a great product for my audience. And most importantly, didn't have to sell my soul through advertising or paywalls

or x before finding out about the V four V model. And that's all due to YouTube and podcasting tip window. Happy New Year to you both and I'm super excited for podcasting in 2023 value for value dot info. I'm sorry about missing that current. Let's see Brian of London in the hive Dao 118,801 sets. Shot call our 20th blades on am Paul out some good boost today. He says bit of a catch up donation though my main hive Dao funding has reduced quite a bit. But as Freddy saying The show must go on. I'd

love to understand how that works. I mean, what why did the funding reduce? Do you have any idea how that works? Or what the deal is? I don't like he's doing more work than ever. I don't understand. I can explain. Okay. Basically, the funny he got was voted on by the have community. And I think his his renewal of that project is either up for grabs or it didn't happen. Does that mean he loses all the funding? Or does it just reduce it? He loses the thickets daily or monthly income? Hmm.

What but I don't want Brian of London funding pod ping hive HBD stuff out of his own pocket? No, no, he doesn't. Just when you send a pod paying, you don't actually spend any currency. So he's already got all that. The only we're the only word we would have there as if piping usage increased in. We had to help contribute to that. Brian, let us know. Which I'm happy to do I mean, you know, we Yeah, I'm happy. We're happy to do that. Let's see. Oh, here we go. Blueberry.

17 776 through boost CLI and he says he gets a link here. He says I don't know what to do with or where to use these audiograms but they are fun to make. He gives a plug verse link. I don't know how to. Maybe we can post this in the show notes or something. I'm seeing if I can find it. Okay, and the delimiter comic strip blogger 33,015 SAS through fountain he says dearest Dave, and artful Adam cumin kind is indebted to your rejuvenation of podcasting, which will have a

lasting effect upon the fate of our children's children. Well, your ingenuity will even cross over into emerging technological sentience. So do keep tabs on the blossoming spirit of artificial intelligence with AI duck cooking the podcast recited by your boy Guth, yo. Well, that link leads to a clip on pod verse and that clip is why use pod verse. I will put that in the show notes. How nice is that? Oh, that is nice. You might want to listen to it for I think I heard this clip.

I agree I would really is that what the screenshots so would you like me to not post this clip? Mitch? Oh, it's up to you. I'm just blueberries a prankster. So okay, well, it's it appears to be from our show. Yeah, Alex said I concur. Cookies, blueberries always doing innovative things with the show art. Their show behind the scenes, like just has these really cool animated gifts that they they make themselves and they you know, he puts them in as the chapter artwork and

stuff. It's really something to see if you I mean, I just I just saw it. I saw the V for V logo dancing around. He did yeah. Yeah, he did that. And you should play an episode of Behind the scheme some time and on the website and or the mobile app and check the chapters because he has a lot of animated gifts that I think he makes himself. Yeah, very cool. It's it's a feast for the eyes for sure.

I love those guys. Man. That's insane. The stuff they're doing really is they've grabbed the lip stuff by the horns. And we've got let's see, we've got some monthlies. We get Chad Pharaoh $22 Excuse me $20.20 Caught Jalbert $12 Martin Linda scope would $1 Mark Graham $1 Joseph maraca $5 Jeremy knew $5 And Cameron Rose $25 And that's our group.

Thank you all so very, very much and today's booster grams and streaming payments will be split between The usual suspects who have helped us out with this program, including Dred Scott for the chapters, and obviously, our two guests here in the boardroom, Alex and Mitch. And so you guys have to make sure that you send me your lightning addresses, so that I can implement that upon publishing. Sure, value for value. That's

how this whole project works. If it's something of value to you determine what it is, according to your own pocketbook, send it back to us, you can do it in a number of ways you could the number one way is to go to that now functioning new podcast apps.com. The website and then you can find many different podcasts, apps, you heard one here today, pod verse that actually will send this value back to the to all the people

involved in the project. You can also go to podcast index.org at the bottom, the requisite red donation button, which leads you to our Fiat fun coupon, PayPal link and also tally coin, believe it or not that Tina and I got a tally coin donation the other day as someone actually was able to do it. And it worked. I'm just glad the site works. Glad anything works. Really. It's amazing. any of this stuff works. All right. Should we wrap this up gems anything for the round table?

Yes, I just want to say how much I appreciate, I think. And I hope both of you Alex and Mitch, hope both of you know how much I appreciate you all and what you'll do. Just glad. Just glad to be a part of it. It's just fun. Yeah, yes. Small, small request. roundtable question for the gentleman. Yes. So the one thing now that the popping news is kind of you know, in the past, one thing that we didn't talk about was a new version of pod Ping was playlists. I know I'm, I'm

always like a year ahead on this stuff. But if you're a developer, you're interested, reach out to us so we can test it out. Now before we finalize the spec for the newspaper. And playlists would be most usable for the medium tag music, music and maybe video, I'm going to do it for peer tube as well. So do playlists that gonna is that going to be in your code for the for the new stuff that you're you're pushing into peer

to do not know yet. Okay. What what specifically, are you do you have a concern that you're trying to tease out? No, I just I it's a brand new idea. And I would like feedback. I know it's President space. And where do they go? To they go to the remote island proposal, I think, in the GitHub. Yeah, and the list, mediums and remote item and get up yet. All right. And of course, you can always post something on podcasts index dot social or if your client is not banned because of our

libertarian crypto ways. We should be able to federate just fine with you. sipto Tyrians. Oh, wait a minute. Hold on a second. crypto. Terrans. Dang, that'll get you blocked everywhere. I need to have that domain name. That's what I need. One last thing here. Martin, Linda's Koch asked if we got his late 2022 boosts ram of 123456 Satoshis. Did you get my late 2022? histogram of 123456? I don't. I don't know. Know if we got that one I'm looking for well, we weren't

for sure. I'll give you a blade on am Paula. There you go. No, I just wrote it down. I'll go find it. We'll go find it. Gentlemen, thank you very much appreciate all of you. And it's going to be another stellar year as certainly as advertising falls apart. There's a number of links in the show notes that we didn't discuss today, but interesting to watch regardless. And I'll be on Rogen this month. I'm really going to see if I can get him interested in talking about

podcasting. 2.0 This time, I'm not sure. But I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try. We just need to get him moved over there notes in the tube and in Watch, watch the Linode meltdown. Zone peer to that's what I'm doing. Let me let me tell you, it's unwatchable on Spotify. They I pay for Spotify. They interrupt the video every 10 minutes with an ad that has audio those people are stupid over there. I don't know what they're doing. But they don't understand user

experience is really really debilitating. If you notice that have you ever watched this video with those interruptions? No, I haven't defined it and Rogen show yeah. And I don't I don't really listen to it unless you're on it. So I don't I don't have any experience with it. Well, don't worry, you'll be experiencing that within a few weeks. You'll see every 10 minutes Hey, I use you know some great vitamins. If he shows up on in a tube now let's just sudo shutdown dash H now. Walk away.

Alright everybody. Thanks again guys really appreciate it. Have yourselves a great weekend. Thanks so much. You too. All right, Dave. Take it easy brother. See you man. Give me some tools I want to help out. Make it as you're on. Yeah. That's it for the board meeting everybody. We'll see you next week right here for podcasting 2.0 You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.com For more information what is Blaze own