Episode 109: 4 Gigs of Knitting

Oh, podcasting 2.0 for November 4 2022, episode 109 for geeks of knitting Hello everybody brand new moms. Welcome to the official board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 It's completely backwards compatible with your 1.0 thinking in apps don't worry about it. We're dragging along into the future. Everything happening in podcasts index.org The namespace for the podcast things and of course all that's happening at podcast index dot

social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, Mr. Captain Frodo himself say hello to my friend on the other end ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones. I feel like Lieutenant proto like what is his lieutenant bigger? Like is that higher than a captain or less than a captain? I think you can private I feel like private Brodo Yeah, like radar. Basically he was approached whoever that guy is on the Star Trek awaiting that you know is gonna die.

So you explain Captain proto to us and I it's i i have a feeling you were kind of kind of digging this. This thing this Captain proto deal. That was diggin until I actually had to start coding and pulling my hair out. It's hard to suck. It's not that it's not so much that is this the I've been fighting my environment all week. It's this is hard. You meet your your work environment, your development environment or your wife. Now number two, number two, yes. Oh, no, the wife environment is

always fantastic. Number two, hello. We all know this. Divide the development environment is is wonky. And I just it's just driving me a little bit a little bonkers because I'm windows with WsL Windows subsystem for Linux running Ubuntu. and a bit WsL is really flaky when it comes to networking, especially with a local host. It just, there's no there's some stuff that just does not work, right. No matter what you do. I've run into this myself.

It doesn't it doesn't I mean, it's like one to 7.0 dot 0.1 should always just be one to one to 700 to one, but somehow in Windows, it just magically doesn't behave like localhost sometimes and you draw the I need this Docker container running. That's got the new socket, no technology in the new soccer socket code in it. And it's running and is listening on localhost port 9999. And then I'm connecting to it from the pod pain web front end, and it just will not work and it's

driving me bonkers. Yeah, but I can't switch over to the only other machine dev machine I have. Well, I've got the podcasting rig, which is a boon to and then I've got an but I don't like working on it. Because it's not in a good place. We know. We know all about your Yes. Three boots into the show. You realize this is not rocking

now. Yeah, yeah. The only other machine I've got that I can really develop on pretty well is that we need to get you to does this podcast index need to get you a better machine? I mean, what do we need to do here? Now I've got great machines they just happen to be not neither one is. What I need is a Linux machine. I'm about to honest. Okay, I'm about to ditch the Mac. Oh, there he is. Come back to the dark side. Dave, you can do it. We can have you

here. If you're writing websites, on the Mac, you're good to go. Right? Like if you're writing like a you know, Ruby, or you know, whatever, you probably fine. If you're doing anything that is at all with compiled code, or anything a little bit lower level. You just You just bang your head against the wall with all the in one architecture problems. Oh, David podcasts index.org For all your complaints about how he's wrong. I've got a folder for that. Exactly.

Is it true? Is it true? Is the rumor true that we we didn't even get a chapter on the latest pod land? I mean, a 45 minute interview we didn't get we didn't earn a chapter and we just take a look. So we got a note from from Sam Sethi, and he's like, Hey, we're doing the 100th and last episode of pod land. Now of course, we knew this was a pathetic marketing ploy, but All right, we will go along with it. And so we had a really nice interview, but I thought it was gonna be a part

of the show. And basically, they did The show and then by the way, we chatted with Adam and Dave. All right, then the last the last chapter is 48 minutes long and it says Sam and James's weak pod lead here. Let me check it out for a second. I like it chapters. Here we go look at the chapter. Oh, man. Yes, four chapters. Yeah. Oh, dude. Yeah. 40 minutes and 11 seconds. 48 minutes of salmon. James's week was hilarious. Anyway, I thought we were dynamite on that, to be

honest about it. Yeah, we're always done. Now. I mean, yeah, it was nice. Because, you know, we switch roles a little bit. There was I don't know, it was just it was good. It felt you gave the the Genesis story. I love hearing your version. Yeah, it's yeah, you've got a standing rule that we don't ever appear on shows together. Anyone do it? Well, those guys are a little different. Yeah. Oh, did you hear what James did? He's smart, though. I'll give

him that. So on pod news this morning. He promotes the last pod land episode, which of course is what you want to do. Obviously, the TC picks is me going you know voices like yours. And, and and James Kirkland. These are important in our industry. He's such as such a war. I was laughing my ass off. Like I have all the things we said in there of all the things in that 40 minutes. That was the most important to him. I enjoyed it. Like, can I just just briefly divert into topic du jour of Twitter?

Well, under one under one condition if we one time for the one time. 100 fire. Okay. Can I just just I just want to make as just a general comment about the entire thing is I think it goes I think this all goes back. This is Elon. This is not even really about about the specifics. But Elon is the new version of what you called it. II called this a long time ago with Trump. Oh, he lied. It would the Trump derangement syndrome sort of

sort of thing. One thing that no but that people fail, always kept, kept failing to understand about Trump is that when you interact with him, you are unwittingly becoming a character in his television show. And that's that feels like exactly the same thing that's happening now. People that are interacting with Elon do not realize that they are feeding the troll they they are becoming a character in his TV show. They are they

become the cast of a vast show that he is creating. Like, if you don't like it, just stop it just wow, that's very interesting. It's a very interesting analysis. Yeah, that's true. That's true. And it's what trolls do expert ones. Yes. Yeah. Well, I, all I'm gonna say is I believe that so far, my predictions have come true. Forced authentication is on its way. And not that you probably can't just be an unverified user, I'm sure there'll be fine, you'll just be equal to a bot.

So when you when a bot will I saw a panel of a ver, the verified user, I don't have one of the verified user panel changed. And so you can select by all tweets do you want all that mention you so that's the same. And the third one, which is verified only. So you can just live in the verified world you don't see any of the other stuff. So it's an auto feature. And that makes a lot of sense. And so you have the elitist

there and you have different tiers and classes system. And now we can sit at the bottom with the bots which I think is where I want to be plebs bots all the same thing. Except live in the in the dumpster and the Twitter dumpster. Except he took it one step further. And I didn't expect that as he wants to KYC everybody. Oh, shoot, I know where the payment like all the crap. He's she's moving along at a clip there. The Yeah. The other thing about did you see the thing about

infrastructure? So he said he's directed, Elon Musk has directed Twitter's Twitter links teams to find up to 1 billion in annual infrastructure cost savings. According to two sources familiar with the matter and an internal slack OC, the company is aiming to find between one and a half million and 3 million

a day and savings from servers and cloud services. So the slight message this this article from Reuters is, is critical it takes the Roche that that by cutting infrastructure costs to that degree that they're going to is going to become crashy. And that they're not going to be able to work with to handle the traffic. I disagree with this. I don't think obviously this, you know, I know nothing about their infrastructure. But the reason I can just I'm just not disagreeing with this at have

extensive knowledge of infrastructure. I'm disagreeing with this out of knowledge of the way that spending gets corrupted in a environment like VC funded stuff, or, you know, which they come from that lineage, because it's just like the military, military industrial complex, the military industrial complex cannot, it has ceased to be able to function in a market where the prices are true or real and

true. They only know how to function. Now, within a government world where the prices are inflated beyond belief with government spending. The same thing happens in Silicon Valley, like they you over time, you forget that you don't have to have, you know, billions of dollars of infrastructure, you could probably get by with a lot less if you did it smartly. And I think that's probably what he's

looking at. He's probably looking around and saying, Oh, my God, we've got so much infrastructure that we probably don't need, we could probably cut a you know, that and typically you say, Oh, we knew we need to cut a million and a half a day. You cut me say we need to get three meals a day. And then they are balls, we can only find a million. Okay, that's fine. You shoot high, you can get maybe I mean, I'm I'm personally I'm more interested in the meta of it all. And you know, I people talk

about staying or leaving Twitter as if it's like, some place. And also just the way they view that in their mind's eye. And the total lack of unders I mean, the way the if you hear mainstream, ie Kara Swisher, if you hear mainstream people talking about it, it's as if they believe that all of the only existence for human interaction and, and entertainment and information should be in this regulated world with regulated companies who are, quote, playing by the rules, who understand how it's

supposed to work. These are the type of cut type of things she says, and I'm still just kind of baffled, half percentage wise, how few people know that, you know, when you're using your web browser, you're you're not in Chrome. You're not inside Google. I mean, these are metaphors that we understand. And we, we know, the freedom of the web and the network itself.

But it's been so not maybe not even on purpose, but it just kind of well, yeah, the apps, I think apps have made it into this place where by this this web thing was, you know, you do that for certain things porn and and the rest is all apps. And I think that that mentality, that's what would also with the, with podcasting, and Apple, you know, as they had to get on that app, you had to go through this process, which of course, is kind of bull crap. It's the antithesis of podcasting.

Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. That's, well, you know, the one good thing that's happened over the last week is just lots of people getting getting over to Mastodon, I don't know how many will stay, but a lot of people entering the Fed averse and getting getting out of the algorithms altogether, going back to just chronological timelines. That's been good to see. I don't know how many people I don't know how many people

actually move. It's only the survivors. You know, at the end of the day, when the rapture comes, a lot of you will not be voted to stay on the island. Trust me on this one. I deleted my Twitter account a couple of years ago and my personal one, and I'll never I'll never go back to that. I'll never get back to that bonanza. Yeah, I deleted my Facebook account years and years ago along with Reddit kind of in the same in the same week. And I

don't miss any of that. No at all my life is probably I mean maybe not a direct causation but it has improved. Yeah, and then I turned off notifications recently on tons of answers Yeah, you got to do that. Oh, I got the Met Macedon. Even even onMessage like text message I've turned off like everything and only only have to go to it to check it. Yeah, that's been a nice, you know, mental freedom there. It won't be long you'll be on graphing OS soon enough for you.

The walls are closing in on on iOS. It's very obvious what they're doing. I love installing for the suit. As sandboxed App Store on graphene OS, you can really set granular level permissions and all kinds of stuff. It's been so I've not been in the Android world for so long, I had no idea what's going on over there. The only thing I know about is from you didn't have to rely on you to tell me what's going on, because nobody I know, is on Android anymore.

Well, at least you have a real friend in the real world, Dave, John. What do you got? It's not even really Android. I mean, you've you've got to know I mean, like, once you get to graphene, you've you've really left the Android universe. You go to no agenda phone.com The instructions are there. But and even the link to the official way to do it was on graphene OS or whatever their website is GitHub, and you buy a new Android blight and only thing it only works on pixels.

So you buy the pixel 43456 Or seven is all supported. And then you do a couple of loops, you plug it in and go to their website, and the website starts to log in and manage your phone and it does all the all the changeovers you kind of sit there watch and it comes up and it's alive. You got graphy know us and there's even a way to go back and restore to Android if you want it to. Nice and I am going to try it out. I'm gonna give it a shot. And we pixel what pixel six pixel? Which, which Why

is the pixel six smaller than the pixel six? A? I think so because I just got the six A's. I just got the six, eight. And then I'm like, this thing is a little too big. I don't like a big like I've gone to the iPhone mini now I'm really done with big phones, that I need the smallest one that got that wonder if that's the pixel, which whichever small like if it's bigger than the Mini, I want to start with that to begin with.

Well, welcome to Tech, everybody where we talk about phones, what the heck are we doing, I wanted to mention one of the things before we bring our guests in because we got a lot of namespace tags to discuss. And as a friend of the show, I've been working with ibex, Ibex pay for a back end, do you have an update?

I do have an update? Well, first of all, I learned a little bit more about the company, I think it's a I don't know if it's El Salvadorian slash Mexicans slash us Miami Corporation, I believe, and the family that owns the company, they are one of the largest Western Union franchise banks, I guess, in all in

Central and South America with 8000. Western Union. So I didn't know it, but I guess it's a franchise, you know, it's like, you set up shop, you're you I guess you have some kind of sort of exchange license or whatever that is, thank you know, you couldn't find Thank you exchange, you know, banking license, and then you pay a franchise fee. And then you're on the Western Union network. And so the one of the one of the newer people in the family went into the family. So look, we got

to set this up. But we got to do that we got to get lightning going. As you know, we really have to move on this because we could be left behind. And so their entire specialty is using Lightning and Bitcoin. And we are both on chain and Lightning Network as the transport layer, but you know, so you can put in euros on one side and get pesos out the other side? Oh, okay. So for them, and this is something they want it to do integrate

with, with what we're doing. So in essence, we're building and I say we because they're doing it all. And I'm just saying, Hey, here's what we need for no agenda. And here's how I would have to work which includes, you know, HTTP URLs that you can encode with a preset amount that you can just put it throw into a newsletter, of course, QR code generator, you know, we have to capture certain data for for value for value, which will be a name can be whatever, are they an alias, and an A donation

note. But then also, they're going to work on timed subscriptions. So you can say x amount per episode or per week or whatever. And and then, I mean, basically everything that PayPal and Patreon do they'll be doing that and and I don't think they'll want to be doing statistics or anything. I don't think you know, that seems like I only got one to talk about today. You know, there's there's enough companies who have kind

of figured that out. And as I was thinking about it, it's so cool how you can easily switch it to a provider of a different service. specifically for statistics, by just adding a 1% split to your to your value block. It's, it's like, Hey, let me test out this service boom, oh, let me test out the boost bot. Oh, I can test that here. I don't like it, I just take out

the split. I mean, this is mind blowing crap. This is this is this isn't a non developers API dream, like I can connect to an API just by putting a split into my value block. That makes me think about whether or not there should be a specific split type. Where the, you know, you have a specific value recipient type. That's sort of like sort of like fee, but, but something that signifies this is just for stats or linkage or something like

that. And the idea there was it was just add on that on that. I don't know if there's, I mean, the whole idea is just, you know, just add one 1%. The money's going and of course, it may be going towards a service that that gives you statistics, but keeps the Satoshi why not. Yeah. Yeah. If I if I, sorry, I just came up with a business model. If I were the ps3 before breakfast, I know Hey, more cowbell, baby. So here's an idea. You want to

take advantage of this service? So you put us in the split for X, whatever it is. And that's how you get the service. And the SATs just disappear. They get consumed? Yeah, but yeah, I just had on no agenda for the first time I just, I just completed it now. The first time. You know, we have a different piece of album art every single time on the show, which and we just had no agenda Art Generator, there's now 30, almost 30,000 individual pieces of art. We've only done 1500

episodes. So you can imagine how much we have to choose from each time and finally and Nico Sime key, and I'd asked artists to do that he put his get lb details in his profile. And I put him in the split for that episode for 10 points. Oh. So how did that go over? Well, so unfortunately, I didn't have the details until this morning. So he should be receiving stuff as of now because as we were just going, going lit here I got the details

and I figured I'm gonna put it in right away. So I'm not and this is a comic strip blogger has been driving this, although he's always many, many artists are very skeptical about Bitcoin. Alright? Don't Don't Don't take any whatever it is zero is also an option. Yeah, so speaking of such contracts, co n s hax popped up on nogen agenda, podcasts index dot social. This seems to be an evolution of the Saturn dashboard. I believe so I believe so. I'm not I'm not sure exactly who's

driving it. But there is deep integration and discussion between the people behind the contracts against EO n sh, a x dot app, and N lb. So this is a very expanded statistics package really, for anything happening in your Albea wallet for podcasts? I mean, I'm just looking at the dashboard it has how many number of donations and you can do it by so if I do for seven day overview here gives you all time donations in this

in this particular time period. You go to burnings it has you know, total donated amount number of supporters sat stream minutes, so 9901 minutes, and it does the only thing is the problem is that you know, of course, Adam shows up hey, let me try your shit. And then oh, great. Well, we Yes, exactly. We never, we never expected to have more than 100,000 transactions. I'm like, Yeah, hold my beer and connect here. Like watch this.

But it's really it's really really pretty. I'm gonna get mo get him set up because this is something you can actually look at this and say Holy crap, this is useful. And there's a lot of useful information in here a lot of easy ways to see the booster

grams to really slice and dice of ano in. They've got analytics we can look at total number of supporters in the timeline so people actually listening that goes up or down and then you can See the donation amounts in a separate I mean, per episode for the whole, you know, for a whole series. It's just really really

cool. And I would say, you know, take my Satoshi or whatever I have to send Yeah, so keep that luggage so I haven't looked at this and then looked at the dashboard so is this something how do you do the connection? Is it oh auth or do you just say it does you do Oh hold on I'm gonna log out this is the new thing that that I'll be a smart about. So you hit contracts dot app. And it says contracts. Oh man, look at this. Contracts value for value dashboard. Stripes wrote your SAS Yeah,

login without me here. So login with Alby pops up the Alvie authorization pane authorize and boom you're in and that's it. And it right away you can see the purple dots as it's loading your transactions. It's doing that with me too. And I'm wonder if maybe we just broke it because oh, there it is. Now mine's loading now monopole? Yeah, Monk pulled up, missy. Yemen's pulled up. So what? Okay, so this, I would challenge here, I would challenge people. Somebody out

there developers out there, too. Do something like because this is all this is Oh, auth, which is great. I mean, this is nice if you're in the ABI ecosystem. But if you're not in the ABI ecosystem, you can't use this. Now, what does they have another option? What is it? Oh, I guess they don't know, this is only within the lbu ecosystem. You should be able to connect it to your own node though. Yes, I mean, I guess you you have a you have hella pad and

things like that. So this is not a criticism of Albie. I mean, if you're in the fountain ecosystem, you're, you're gonna live you're gonna see fountains stats, if you're in the abbey ecosystem, you're gonna see Abbey stack, you know, if you're, if you're, you know, cowboy and you run Iran, you're on horse, you're gonna do, you're gonna have hella pat or

whatever. But I would, it would be nice if there was a thing that worked the way that we, that you just described earlier, where you just simply give it a split of some amount, 1%, whatever. In those set, those sets get consumed by the by the dashboard service or the stats service, and you just get the stats. That would be cool. And where you don't have to even do a run or anything, run it by me again, I just want to make sure I understand it.

Yeah. So like it would be a stats dashboard service, where you just throw the split in. And you're not, you're not you're not sending to your to a wallet you own. Right, usually you're just for the service. Yeah, you just pay. Now, the only problem is you're sending percentages, not not individual SATs. So it could be modeled on the one in my mind is yeah, it's value for value. So people have to understand you're going to be sending more just just like any other split.

But I think that's the way to go. That's like immediate, immediate makes sense. When he was really, podcasts index gets one 1%. Now, of course, when you're under 100 SATs, we're still getting one Satoshi. So it's not it's much more than 1% under the under the 100 sat level. And that's dipping in that is all depending on the way the app

wants to handle that like they need. Yeah, there's a lot of different ways but so just from the traffic itself, you know, we're able to provide nice liquidity you know, we've never added any Fiat or any other external Bitcoin to the wallets and then the initial amounts we put in. Yeah, the only thing I think the only I think the only the only

money we put into the node is when we first built it. And we put what, like 100 bucks for 1500 bucks, but I don't know, I don't remember what the what the exchange was at the time. Yeah, yeah. So that and we haven't had to add anything else. No, from Fiat since so everything has been self sustaining. Yeah, I mean, that's a real it's a real service. I

mean, it could make it really work. Yeah, just like to see that because he because that gets you that it provides you have seen this outside of it's like you don't have to be within fountain or Alby or or is not a wallet provider. Do zoom in Yeah, no, I it's exactly this. In fact, contracts dues I'll be your crazy if you don't do this, turn it around right away. Right away. Allow that, you know, so perfect. Such a perfect idea.

It's the it's like having Hilah pad but you don't have to run your own node. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And that And that's worth a split. No, yeah. It's really, really worth a split. And it's completely controllable. No signup required. You know, it's like, Hey, you sent us that you send us the money. We know where you're coming from your end. And since you get the original SATs thing in there since since that property is within each payment, yeah, you can, you

could do things like calculate taxes. At the end of the year, you can generate a sheet that shows your income and all that stuff. When you fall in the hole essentially gives you like a little 1099 type deal. Yeah, that's the only thing current contracts hasn't done right. Yet. They don't I don't think they understood. They haven't figured it comes down statement. That's what should give you like little income state a whole p&l baby. The p&l should give you a p&l your business off, actually,

they know they do do that. Right. Let me see. So Oh, cool. It says Your biggest supporter. Okay, it's podcasting to I think you can now set it to load a million transactions. But what is that for me? Like, a week? I don't know. What about how many transactions come in? It's more than that. is more than a week? It's? Yeah, I don't remember. I mean, I think I think, because to look at it, it has the biggest supporter, March

elevens. 100. Now 100,000, we've had much bigger than that. So I'm not quite sure why that's showing that way. It's probably struggling to pull that in. And we're just, we're, we're not the ideal use case for this. No, yes or no, yes or no. But regardless, it's fantastic. I want to go back to Ibex PE for a second because then, so this,

you know, I think there's 40 people in the company. So we'll company, there's a nice little team who I have the pleasure of, of basically telling them what I really want, and they're going to build it and they're going to offer it and the way they work is 1% 1% of the transaction, that's their fee, and they can send it straight into a different currency. So you can end and you couldn't there's a slider, you can say, well, I want like 80% in dollars and keep 20% in Bitcoin Satoshis.

You can you can slide that dynamically wherever you want it to be anything. Once it's over $50 they flush it right out to your to your bank through ACH. So it's cool service now says they're doing something very interesting. Something I said, Hey, you know, I'm not going to be arrogant to say that. You know that you didn't come up with this. But they did come up with this really cool thing to do with SATs. So apparently, this is an Australian baseball league. Are you aware of this?

No. Yeah. So there's a real another head baseball and Australian Yeah, I can't believe they're not in constant fights with the with the cricket boys. Anyway, so yeah, apparently there's an Australian baseball league. And they play big venues because they got jumbotrons. And so now they're they're going to do I'm not sure when or when this is starting. But on the Jumbotron when when a batter is up, they'll have stats for SATs for stats. So they'll have his stats, you know, his RBIs, and

whatever it is, and they'll have a QR code. So you can scan it and send him SATs right then and there on the spot. If he's in the stadium in the stadium, if he screws up and makes an error, then the then they have a steal the SAT. So the first 100 people to scan the QR code, get to take money away from the player. I like that shit a lot, man, because they're gonna do an ln URL. You know, withdrawal or all? Yeah, withdraw. Limited to 100 the first 100 I'm like, This is great. It's a great idea. I

love it. You got to put some, yeah, it's very, it's very Australian to also give away to pin lesson, buddy. Right? So anyway, so you know, we also talked a bit about music, and they were super interested in that, because that's their whole thing. Their core mission is to make sure that if you want to go from currency to Bitcoin, or vice versa, that's what they do, and they want to facilitate it. So getting over that hump for many, with, you know, just, I just want a receipt, can I

receive dollars this way? Does it work as a whole unit? I don't, I don't want to go and learn about it. lazy bums. This would get them started. Or if they're worried about as in, in some cases, you know, IRS or tax implications are other stuff just not comfortable with Bitcoin on the balance sheet, etc. Yeah, so I'm really excited about those guys doing that. I

think it'd be a couple more weeks. And of course, they're going to do a case and we're gonna put it all together, man, it's gonna be fantastic. I can't wait to see it to see how it works to see the first to see the first you know, the beginnings of it as a first starts rolling that's going to be fun to watch. And I think it's really I mean, it's really a big experiment for you guys. Oh, it's a very big experiment you want to know agenda can

really do that. And we can do we can start soliciting V for V in streams and, and booster grams. Oh, yeah, it's gonna be dynamite. Yeah, cuz you're right, it makes it makes the boost button within ABS much more accessible to people who don't want to do who don't want to have that on on their side on their end to podcasters that don't want to have that don't wanna do that final step. You know, it's like,

imagine if you if you could just use strike. You know, that would work but you know, strike, they only have one kind of couple of ways of sending money in or out. And this is a whole they of course, they have an API, you can develop it yourself, but I couldn't motivate anybody. I couldn't find anybody with any time. And helpers are lazy. No, not really. And they jumped right in and said, No, no, we want to do this. We want to get this set up. So anyway, I'm lazy about it.

You are working hard, man. That's what's going on with you. Hey, I told him we would bring him in early and here I am. Still true to my word. It's still early for a five hour show. Please welcome to the boardroom. The former Silicon Valley insider now retired from public life known as John Sparrow. Hey, guys, that's all right. That's right. I was just following a Rogers Cadenhead over on Twitter while you guys were talking. Shut up for Texas. So he's from Dallas area, right

next door. Yeah. Gee, okay. Yeah. Real nice guy. I'm getting a double dose for you guys. Because I listened to pod land or whatever it's called. Now this very long chapter. Very long chapter. Extremely long week for James and, and Sam a very long week. Yeah, I like your guys interview though. I like hearing the Genesis story. No matter how many times I hear it. It's, there's always a new fact that comes out there. So that's always good to hear that.

I want to throw, I want to throw something in and I jotted this down on the way to the office this morning. Not while I was driving, but I thought of it and Indra jotted it down when I got to the office. But there was, I had printed this thing off a while back. That quote, I'm sure you remember it. John, that quote from Marco Arment, where he said cheap, sloppy, I think it was a tweet. He said cheap, sloppy dynamic ad insertion and podcasts continues to degrade the experience for listeners.

And he went on he said more. He continued it was it was a longer statement because he then went into how people are blaming the podcast apps for bad dynamic ad insertion. And that second part of what he said ended up becoming the entire story within podcasting. It ended up becoming a story about how bad dynamic ad insertion is making is ends up blaming the apps listeners blame the apps. But really like the first part is almost kind of

lost the fact. And what I mean by the first part is the fact that there even is cheap, sloppy, dynamic ad insertion. And I would, I would go further and say, more than just cheap, sloppy dynamic ad insertion, I would say dynamic ad insertion at all. And so here's what I'm trying to get to. I feel this comes up a lot, where you look at things like chapters,

transcripts, we know what have you. And the question is, yeah, but that gets really complicated and starts to break when you have dynamic ad insertion, specifically when you have dynamic ad insertion that is that is that takes the form of every GET request stitches together a new mp3 file that didn't exist before, sometimes with ads sometimes without, with

various ad slots or Lyford links. Yes. And so, I guess I just wanted to this, this feels like what's the right way to say this, this feels like sort of a bastardization of HTTP of the

delivery of of the delivery of files through HTTP. And it feels like this is all going to this all rolls back to advertising being based on IP addresses and geo locate that's why this in the in the context of op three this this gives me in what you're doing makes sense to me. There's this Whole, there's this whole construct that is now, really in the last two years has really come to dominate podcast delivery. And it's this idea

that, you know, downloads are king. IP geolocation is king, you know, met user information based on IP addresses is legitimate. And so you've had this entire construct that has grown in the last couple of years really, for this dynamically stitched together on the fly content, it's breaking things within podcasting, that are good ideas and making that stuff difficult. And the real problem is down the road, it

feels like it's all gonna fall apart anyway. Because IP, there's going to they're we're moving towards a world where IP addresses are not going to be reliable sources of that information anyway. So the whole thing, just this whole on the fly dynamic stitching of advertising into into audio enclosures, it feels like a house of cards, that now that's a huge soliloquy that I'm now going to turn over to you to reply to. I agree, it makes things more difficult. But I don't see that

changing. And in fact, if you listen to a lot of the conversations that are going on, I think you're gonna see it a lot more, as opposed to a lot less going for because they are outsourcing. So these hosts are outsourcing to third parties that do this, you know, for them. So I think you're gonna see a lot more of it, I, I think we need to figure out as a

group, how to work in the world where that's the case. So I think we should be able to tweak I'm pretty optimistic that we can live in the world where things are delivered that way, because even without the user targeting, that's one of the things you mentioned, that might make it less interesting in the future, they still have inventory. So they, you know, you want to send the ad out 20 times and then stop, you know, no matter who's listening to it, that's always going to be there.

So even if they, a lot of hosts will do that now after the fact. So they'll kind of like let it run and then re stitch a static file. But ultimately, they're all going to go towards the same thing where, you know, it's like the old AdSense thing. Like we'll we'll just have some programmatic way of buying stuff to stick in podcasts. And then a way to stitch it on the back end. And if they don't build it themselves, they'll definitely

use a third party to do it like blueberry. Right? That's someone that yeah, has a bunch of development stuff on there. And but they are working with a third party to do it. For their for their shows. And I see I see it just getting, I don't want to say better or worse, but definitely, like more prevalent going forward. So I would, I would hope that we can come up with things that work in that world, as opposed to trying to say, it's always going to be static files forever.

That is, I was it was really hitting me hard because we were doing me and Alex are running these parallel download things such as this taking. His thing is taking weeks because like, you know, if you're going through form and downloading 4 million enclosures are over that. Man, I hit a batch the other day, these enclosures were huge. I mean, like four, five gigabytes in size. And it's just not like all of a sudden my disk space when we know where we're at now. Oh, wow, what just

happened? And I started looking through these things. And then it got me a little nervous. I'm like, Okay, what am I actually download? Movies. They were, they were not movies, they were like video blogs. Of like some ladies like showing how to knit a hat. Oh, I uploaded the raw the raw video, the raw files straight from from what is it? Adobe starter kit, or something like that? Yeah, it was like a it was like a five

gig move dot mov file. It was in like, you know, 10 ADP. And it's just her knitting knitting a hat. That's cool, though. I mean, that's the cool thing about podcasts eventually, you know, there'll be players that can they can play that kind of stuff. So I loved I loved it, but I was knitting It's Sunday, I was thinking, knitting that every one of these downloads that I've requested

and received in order to just simply do analysis. I'm going to download the episode run an analysis on it with the with a with the ML model and then toss it every one of those in a dynamic ad insertion model I got delivered in a head for that. And that ad was a complete waste of, of money like this. This was yesterday, should they use for it? Do I just use the podcast index user agent? Yeah. Oh, it's not. It's not iOS. It's not getting monetized. Yeah,

exactly. Now, if you put overcast in there, I would agree with you. I think they are filtering that out. So they know they delivered it, but they're not going to charge anyone for that as long as you use curl or something like that.

Sure. It just goes back to the whole. I guess, I guess the concern I have is that there's a front, it feels like there's a framework that there's going to be answers to all of these things, everything I can throw out, there's going to be something like, oh, yeah, well, then, you know, they've already

thought of it. And I agree, I do agree, understand this. There. I guess in general, I can't kick this feeling that there's been a framework built here on on a little bit of shaky ground, which is sort of goes back to what James and and Sam were talking about the other day with. And sort of when, when we're thinking everybody is still concentrated on downloads

instead of listens. And, and I think we do really have to move towards trying to think of listens instead of downloads, because every download centric model just makes everything is still very shaky and unstable. Okay, so here's, here's my idea. I'm gonna have to give you my idea now for a second. Alright, because it'll it'll take us into the hopefully into more conversation. Can't we just create a podcast events parameter that is returned my

listening habits? And in some cases, maybe the app gives you a Satoshi for it per minute or whatever? I mean, isn't that just a simple way? We all know, ultimately, it has to come from the player side. If the player side utilizes podcast events, the podcast events tag in the namespace? Can't one of the events be, you know, voluntarily report. I mean, there's a lot of trust issues here. But we got to start somewhere. I mean, that

seems like a very elegant way to do it. Because for 18 years, I've said you can't monetize the network, this will never work, it's only going to get worse. If this is the standard is just going to and I see the IAB framework and apps and all kinds of shit. It's disgusting. And honestly, even from a tech point of view, it's kind of dumb, because they would a good player in a good system would cache a lot of this stuff. But it's it's a business decision

why they're not allowing caching, right? Like all these hosters are like don't cache whereas in any other world, they would be pleased cache because you're not hitting our servers over and over. So the reason they do that is because they need some level of info of what's going on. So yeah, if there's another way of getting that, but you know, what gets me that'll be great. What gets me, John is,

and by the way, we didn't really intro John properly. But of course, one of the main things he set up is Opie three.org to.org dot Dev, right, dot dev Opie three dot Dev. And so and we need to delve into that a little bit closer. So he's been really working on on these data, you know, as what do you call it a prefix. Service. It's not really a good name. But yeah, prefix analytics, stats service. And what gets me is that I'm sitting here, literally, May, I made

three decisions. Here's the decision I made based upon listening data. So this has nothing to do with advertising. But so just just to keep it with listens versus downloads. And I did this in the in the Saturn analytics that's connected to Alby. And I saw that and we had three shows planned for no agenda for our 15th anniversary. The first Thursday was the actual 15th anniversary. Then we had a Sunday in the middle, and

we had a final Thursday, which is episode 1500. And I decided to change the format, knowing that donations will be large. And I thought it would spread out over those three days. So instead of doing two breaks, we did two and a half hours of show. And then we read for about an hour and a half the first day, hour and a half the second day, and I went back and I was

looking at listening analytics. And I could see the drop off was so dramatic, that I think people who may be even we're listening to wait to hear their name or their note or whatever, they might not have even heard it. Now that's just a sample because all they have is stream Satoshis. But I think if as long as you have a baseline, which I have with the amount of data we have, you kind of got a good idea. And so, you know, I made

some decisions for our third show based upon that. And here I was doing stuff that we're still talking about 18 years later trying to figure You're out how to implement it. Can it ever happen John Spurlock? I think we need to come up with something that people do. I mean, if everyone used that system right now, it would be amazing, right? So it's just like getting something out there that people will adopt. And I think the story behind events, I

know, we're kind of going all around here. But the one of the tags that's coming up, that I proposed for the face six is a hopefully a very simple way for just anyone out there like apps to send back trusted information back to the podcaster. So if we take a step back, podcasting is like broadcasting in a way, even though it's sort of you know, there's feeds and all that if you take a step back, the podcaster, is putting their

creation out to the world. And they're saying here, you know, just like a webpage your world and it's on the internet, apps can go fetch it, and that's the relationship, right? So it's a very broad castI sort of relationship, if you look at the boxes and lines of it, right. And so they are able to, and that's great. But there's no way for the consumers of that the apps right now, the relationship on that, and is pretty one way,

it's like, thank you for this content. I'll download it. And like as a side effect of downloading it, you get some info. You know, Marco has a very strong, you know, he has he has very strong principles of what he like he thinks the right thing to do is, and when he's fetching feeds, he's like, hey, I want to do right, by the podcasters. I'm going to tell them how many people are subscribed, right, for example,

in the feeds, and that's great info. I mean, that's something that you to your point, Adam, you know, you do a baseline, and you say it's your went up or went down or whatever. But people would love to get that info, but he sticks it in a very forgettable channel, right? He sticks it in the user agent, there's no way for him to even if he wanted to do it, to send it. So I think the the events tag was like meant to be literally just like an inbox, right? It's like, here is a

single channel. So we figure out a way to get unforgivable requests in. And from there, we can build these different payloads. So I've heard a ton of different really good, really good ideas so far. So but subscribers listens. That's obviously one of them. What I was, I was gonna ask you, what is your, where's your focus going to be? And I asked this specifically, because I just personally, don't feel very motivated to help fix the dynamically insert inserted ad business. I like what Dave said,

which is, hey, this stuff is breaking shit. So what is what is your driver? What do you what would you like to achieve short term? I don't like to do anything. So I'm lazy, right? So I just I just do this for a reason. And I can't talk at like, in great detail about the reason but let's say it like, so I had I had an interview on pod land a while ago. And they were talking about op three, I think. But that was the week that the I

heart stuff came out. And so we talked about that. And I think as as part of that I had a comment like, hey, these players have this great information, but I'm not holding my breath. And I'm sending it anywhere, anytime soon. And that seemed like a pretty non controversial sort of thing to say back then. But I got well, you you confuse me. So you have a reason for this. But you

you, you don't you don't want to share that. Just the only thing that immediately makes me think well hang on, I'm giving you all my data. What are you building with my data, then is no different things to different things. So yeah, so separate out op three from podcast events. They're kind of sorry, I'm talking right now about podcast events, which is, again, that's what that's what I'm doing. I know what you do on your secret isn't that's like the biggest known secret in the industry?

Well, I think if you listen to what you guys talked about in your in your show, too, I think you know what, like, what's going on is messing with you. But basically apps, it turns out, are very interested in helping out this problem. And they are, they're willing to do it. But they're tapping a bunch of people on the back and saying like, how do we do this? And so my concern and what where I'm coming from with all this is obviously not in any sort of user privacy sort of backstop.

Right. Ideally, we would this is all summary information that would be sent. It's only information that they already have. And they already give it to podcasters at a at a summary level. And you know, there's other administrative stuff that could go over this channel as well. But our concern, my concern is that if we didn't have something out there, like as a proposal as like the open way to do it, as opposed to Yeah, it will get done in closed walls. It's

gonna be done point to point it exactly. So I thought we need something. Yeah, exactly. It's like and that makes a lot of sense, right? Because then they can say, all right, like you can get stats from the Big Three players. And that's enough. And I love the fact that, you know, podcasting is not like that or has not been like that to date. So if we can figure this out, I think I think people will be willing to use it. But it's, it's also, it's also useful in a variety of different contexts.

So there is a tight rope, I think, to some level. With events, it's like, hey, we now we have this new channel, that is a trusted way for podcasters. To get feedback from apps, you can think of a lot of interesting stuff to send over

there. And I think it's like once it's like the namespace within a namespace thing, once we establish that channel that everyone can trust, and I don't know how Tech Tech you want to go, but we can talk about how you can trust it all the way, then we can talk about the payloads that go inside of it, right. And that's where I think, Oh, here's the things I got one, I got one. I want one to be a selfie of when what you're doing while you're listening.

Be the be real app. That's to be real. There you go. Yeah, at this point in the show. Yeah, the app could take a picture. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's no bad ideas with this. It's just a channel that doesn't exist right now. And honestly, the channel that does exist is the email address. This is how people ping the podcaster, they hunt for the email address, and they send some inbound. And if you're smart, you filter all that out. And it goes to spam. Right? So

this is a, this is a mechanical inbox, right? Where you can have, you can have structured information coming back. And that works for you. Because you have services that are presenting it to you. You could even envision, like a lot of these are feed drops and stuff. They're all about like, oh, you know, here's my offer to be on your show, blah, blah, blah. That's all done with a with a horrible email right now, right? But you can imagine, hey, I'll, I'll send a structured request.

And then on your side, you could have a filter that says, once the request gets up to this level from this venue, then I'll accept it right. So there's all these things that we're doing manually in email right now, that can use this channel, if it exists. Yeah, I like that a lot. What will the transport mechanism be? I mean, we've talked about this, I guess this doesn't matter. It's just a URL with an endpoint to hit. Is that Is that what it was?

I think, you know, it's gotta be, it's gotta be JSON, right? It's got to be walked right into that. Right now, the idea is, it's gotta be as simple as possible. So the proposal is literally just a very simple JSON payload. But that's not the interesting part. The interesting part is how you how you make sure that that's, that's trustable. And fortunately, we don't have to reinvent the wheel on that. So while you're using the Jade, using the J WTS. Derive? It

feels like a good approach to that. And my question around. So if I understand the spec, it's it's just a post body is just a JSON posted body? With, with the J WT with the correct. With the correct add on with a column for verbs, I'm not sure what those things are. In that, that you that you constructed the so where are the site? Where are the keys coming? Getting

assigned at is that coming from? I mean, like how if I'm, if I'm in days, okay, index, and I'm gonna open up an endpoint for an inbox URL, how, how do I go about do I need to give out keys to everybody I want to authorize. So you would be on this site as the podcast index, you probably want to be the sender, right? So you want to send information I would be receiving the play, I would be a receiver, I want to have a receiver endpoint for let's just say our feed for your

feed. Okay, so you set up a endpoint, some sort of HTTP thing that listens, that can be in Rust, or whatever you want to be? And you mocking me, John? I think so too. I felt a lot. I feel very, now we're all going to be rust developers at some point. I'm just You're, you're ahead of me a little bit. That's what they've been telling us for seven years. So. But um, yeah, you just set up an endpoint just like any of your other API endpoints, and it received JSON. So that's pretty

easy. The tricky part is looking at the authorization header and checking the signature. Now the signature is based on URLs. So the sender when it sends the info, it signs it with something that lives on a URL that they own. So let's say Apple podcasts is sending you information. The URL is actually in as part of the signature and it says like this is coming from podcast.apple.com/keys.json or whatever. So you see that it's

signed with that. And then you can decide and everyone can decide based on your policy, like, whether you trust them or not. And you can look at what what typically happens is Apple podcasts will on their support page be like, Oh, this is our keys dot JSON file. If you see stuff coming from this URL. That's us. And then you can have a What's great about this is there's no meetings involved, right? Like, you don't have to set up any sort of initial. That's my kind of business. No meetings.

Yeah, this is my mantra. But um, you know, it's allows different people that have different policies. So you could say, you know, if you're very conservative, you can say only trust things that come from Apple podcasts, but someone like podcasts index would probably want to support you know, the longtail of everyone out there and see what everyone's sending.

So it's all based on a URL, Apple are actually already does this for their that they're two different API's that they had the App Store notifications and put in their identity service. So it is kind of a solved problem, like how to deal with authenticating people coming from any random place on the internet and make sure that that identity is stable over time. So

it's the same sort of thing. I it's not, you know, you have to do a one time setup on the sender side, but on the receiver side, on your side, you just need to write the code once and then decide in your if statement, like, do I want to ingest further things that come from this URL, and you could even put them in purgatory to start out, you could say, I'll save the data, but I won't process it until I look up this URL and see what's up with it.

Yeah, makes purchases. So there's, there's a, there's a there's a public URL somewhere that lists essentially a public key. And they're gonna sign there, you're gonna sign the JD btw, Senator, you can do it, you can author you can authenticate it by by checking the signature matches their public key, and then decide whether or not you want to trust that entity or not. So here's let me give you a real world scenario of something that is needed. And it's not necessarily different than what

we talked about just a second ago. But maybe there's a little bit more flavor to it here. The one thing that we talked about when whenever I talked to people that want to use the index, for like, bigger things, you know, if there's an accompany that wants to use the index for, you know, putting podcast data into some device or something like that. One of the things that we always that I always ask them is, you know, hey, you know, this is free, the index is free, use it, you know, have everyone.

And, you know, if, if you're if you make a lot of money off of it, consider a donation. But also, part of the value that would be great to get back is, can you send us back usage data, you know, anonymized or hair summary, your I don't care what it is. I just need usage data. Because what one thing that the index lacks severely is real world data about who is listening to what shows. And this is, this is a problem

across all of podcasting. It's pretty much what you described earlier, you have tons of podcast apps, all with peep with dedicated user bases, the listening to shows, and none of that data is coming back into these, quote unquote, rankers except for the one that fountain publishes, yes, that's other than that, everybody is just like, you

know, you have this void of this void of information. So what you end up with is silos of, of, of data, where you have, like, if I go into if I go into overcast and, and hit where, okay, I'm gonna go, I want to go find a show. And it comes up with their trending list, you know, the there, the markers page that has all the different popular shows that are currently popular in his system. It's all dominated by things like accidental tech,

and but Is that wrong? No, no, I'm not saying that's wrong. No, I'm totally not saying at all that that's wrong. What I'm saying is, it would be really nice, like, that's going to be the case for his app, then there's going to be fountains list is going to look different. The podcasts indexes list is going to look different, like no agenda is going to be up there,

podcasting. 2.0 is going to be up there. So if you took all of that data in, in aggregated it together, you would smooth out all of those silos and you would have a much better view of what's actually popular across all of podcasting am going to ask you and to what end this is, this is the benefit who will because we're like, podcast index. We're not. We're an

index, we're supposed to be like, I want neutral data. I don't want data that's been affected by the fact that that we did our show is our show is artificially inflated in our own statistics, right. So our Are you saying we would want to possibly integrate some data from OPI three, four as an example, or this adventure data or this events data? I mean, it's really no different than then basically the Facebook spy SDK except you ask people to

for permission to give the information. And it's kind of the quote unquote, ultimate world where you can determine what you want to share with who is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, but that's pretty much exactly because you have, like what John said a while ago, that, you know, the the apps don't peep. People act like the apps don't want to give any data away. And that's not the case, like, like he mentioned, Marco gives this away in the user agent. But that's the so it's

not like it's some, I don't ever want to give you my data. It's not like that really is just that there's no, there's no decent way to do it in a private way. That's not gross, and or weird. And so if there's this events tag, here's, here's what I'm really saying. I want to immediate, I want to immediately take the events tag and bastardize it beyond all belief, to where it is to where I want to know, I want to have an open endpoint to where people can just send me data without ever

even being in a feed. Like, well, that's Oh, without this feed, either. Yeah. But then make a decision. Yeah, but you Yeah, I don't know, to me, I'm still all about the podcaster should be in control of that, like where the their stats are going. But I could, I can see this is not stuff that might be useful. This is not stats, though, John, like this would be here's, here's what I'm totally going off the rails. The, here's what

I want, I want and I want Buzzsprout. To periodically, I want them to somehow publish or send out a list of all the shows on their system that are currently popular. And I want overcast to do the same thing. And I want pod verse to do the same thing. And I want rss.com to do same thing, but in blue, but I want everybody to somehow publish or send around lists of all of the shows that are popular on their own systems. And this is not privacy in any way. This is just purely just a

list of popular podcast. That way, we all have a real ranking system to say, not ranking in the gross sense where you're like, you know, this one's better than this other one, but like actual usage, where it's like, okay, on for my stats within rss.com, the these 500 shows were the ones that ranked top to bottom by most downloads. That way, we can amalgamate that data into one big ranking list that everybody can share. And we don't keep having to go back to Apple and Spotify in scraping

their data. And to try to find out what shows are actually getting any listening at all. I you're talking to someone that loves lists. So like I love you know, Letterman top 10 I've been I'd actually do a ton of lists, you know, the stupid Livewire things? That's, that's a list right of the top. I love lists. So I probably love lists more than you do. But I don't see to me the ranking, like having some massive ranking list across all podcast is sort of uncompelled.

To me, I'm not sure who that would be for, I'm not sure that that would be podcasters would love that maybe the ones that are rising in the list would love it for a few days until they start falling. But I don't see that as being like a target that would get people excited about hitting right, except for, you know, extreme data nerds. Like I think like Adam was saying it's more of a relative thing, right? It's like, here's

what I had yesterday. And here's what I have today. And if you can get that from a variety of players, and the way we do that, and the open world is to establish a protocol for doing that. I think then you have a baseline in among yourself or your own little group ultimately from from it from a data analytics perspective, the only thing that messes it all up is this incessant necessity and obsession to equate download with a person and a listen,

that's the problem. Otherwise, all this stuff is working pretty well. You know, it's like I'm, I'm looking at all kinds of different stats. And as long as I don't care about the actual number, and try to think that's how many people are listening, which is the entire fallacy, because there's 10,000 podcasts now using value for value. You know, and using those apps. It's a very successful 10,000 app group success is there is there's no necessity for those communities. For it to be any

bigger They're already seeing a mix. Yeah, they're satisfying what they need to satisfy. And you see graphs like that's really what will grill will give you value is like, you see whether that trend line is going up or like, hey, they're dropped off at this point. And that's, that's something that Opie three or these other systems can do for each individual podcaster. But I don't see it as like a huge goal to like, do that for the entire podcast world. I'm not sure who that would benefit.

What What I will say just just because I look at different podcasts, and this is in the, in the lb stat system, or in contracts, very interesting to see that on podcasting 2.0, we make much more, we have much more income on boosts compared to streaming amounts. On no agenda. It's the inverse, we

have more income from streaming sites than from boosts. And the end, the most beautiful thing is on no agenda, where we don't have booster grams integrated yet into the content, you see a drop off in both donation segments, podcasting 2.0 During the donation segment, our income actually goes up. Which is also partially because we're doing it live. And it's being solicited. This, as long as we don't have to worry about how many people it is. And now I would love to have some I mean, I'd love to

have all kinds of op three data in there. I'm just saying as a podcaster. Yeah, I'm different because I'm not using inserted advertising. I mean, I have more data and excitement in front of me than I've ever seen. Yeah, exactly. But you saw the OP through and I love the fact that your shows are on op three right now. Because it's a great like way to see the just how many different apps people listen to your show on? Yeah, very, very interesting. Totally. Ton of Pocket Casts, right. I

like number three on the list or something. Yeah, phrase Yeah, phrase Exactly. And I'll you know, as I'm working through the three, I like, I'll give you a nice way to look at that later. But you would love I think I don't wanna put words in your mouth. I think as a podcaster, you would love to see the same sort of just generalized, like, here's where they trailed off. Like, here's

how many listens from Pocket Casts, right? If they had a way to give that to you, and then you don't have to use that for any decision making other than what you're using it for now, right? Which is kind of to give you a sense of like, okay, like my listeners on these types of apps. Well, here's what I'm gonna get a certain wave, but I actually have more info now. Here's what I'm gonna do. Cuz Thank you. I just wrote a note to myself a programming note. Learn rust.

snappy? No, actually, I'm going to talk about I'm going to tell all the Pocket Cast listeners to go go over there and kindly request some podcasting 2.0 features from their open source app. Why no congratulations, by the way. Yeah, you guys and congratulations on getting getting that was a quick merge to that didn't take long. What is this? I don't know. What are we talking about? Real trivia, but there's a new on Apple platforms. There's a

new official way to send down. Oh, yes, yes, yeah. So I just had I had this lightbulb moment that went off the other morning. I'm like, Oh, I could just make the change in the car. They merged your car commercial. So it'll go out in the end of November? I think so I think they're the first ones to use it. Because Apple podcast still doesn't even use it. So I'm free to do you know, free development work.

After all, he is he is semi retired from the corporate research fully retired from the corporate life. But it is, it is a good example to show now too, because their their codebase is actually really good. And it's a good example. So as in last in less people, some people learn via blog posts or documentation, but sometimes it's just easy to say, look at this file, look what they do here. It's not that, you

know, it's not that much work. So I thought that was really cool them to go ahead and merge it to Hell yeah, I didn't even realize this. That's fantastic. So we need more. Yeah, it's nice to see that they're living the that they're like living the open source lifestyle, instead of just saying, Oh, here's the code and never really interacting with it. They actually, they're actually being stewards. You know, that's good to see. That's really good. Anything is pure client side from the

podcast namespace tags. That would be a good like, first PR for for that project. Because they Oh, they only open really the client side. Right. So anything that requires any sort of server interaction is going to be more difficult, but things like chapters even there's, like fun, like the funding tag did yeah. Stuff like that. That's just you I work you know. Exactly, exactly. So yeah, that's I thought that was really, really cool. Did you look around in? I haven't looked at the code base

at all? Did you look around enough to see whether or not? Is it a pure client side download and download and parse style system? Or is it getting your feed info from or the feeds being parsed? And then all the broken apart feed elements handed back to the app through their server side? Well, as we established, I'm lazy. So I did not look through the entire No, but that means this is a bad this is a lazy battle, because I was hoping you would tell me so I don't have to go look myself.

Yeah, lazy understands lazy here. Yes, yes, I do know, having gone back and forth with someone else working through a podcast and Pocket Casts issue. I do, it does look like most of their stuff is server side. So even if you put in a custom URL, there, their backend actually parses that. So it's not something that's on the client side, Apple podcast actually is old school, they do if you put in a custom URL, like they will hit it from the client app, even if their servers blow up. So

then, so that's kind of a different model. But yeah, so anything like chapters, ideally, you probably do want to do that on a central server, do it once, but I don't know you, there's some things that can be done there. Or maybe we have an open source back end for Pocket Casts, but just these, it's like a gradient, right, there's some of these things that we can get in there that are QuicKutz. And some that are going to take a little longer to, to get in there. But the fact that Pocket

Casts is still such a big deal. And it's open, that's like really exciting. On the on the on the advanced tag, and these really good that you put in a proof of concept working, working back end for that, because this is very much the type of of tag that needs working code to people can, can write against these these sorts of things that are this is a, this is less of a tag in more of a I don't know what you would call it like a like a, a

framework for how to do a thing. And whenever you have something that's that conceptual, you really you really had to put feet on it, or else everybody's just gonna, their eyes are gonna glaze over, and they're not going to do anything exact. So yeah, I think that's that's the way I mean, just like a piece, right? I mean, you can propose it all day long. But unless you have some in it, unless you just build it, people are not going

to do anything. So I think that's definitely open for proposals, like if you need like, if you go through it as a as the sender or the receiver. And it's not clear about something or it's like, Hey, I would love something to test this. Because that's the other thing, you get something implemented. It's like, Who do I talk to? Because no one speaks the language yet. I do have I do have, I think a tester for the

sender side. So if you're an app, and you want to send something to an endpoint, like I have an endpoint that will validate your, your payload, but I don't think I have a test yet. If you're a server, and you're looking for just like, What would app calls look like? So I could definitely get that in there as well. Can I kind of raise my hand? Sure. So here's here's a successful formula. Thank you. Here's a successful formula is let's come up with an event. I don't know how he's feeling he's

been rather quiet. I hope he's okay. But Stephen B is the kind of guy who can really quickly whip up an event to jam into one of my jam and into the no agenda feed. And let's test it with a real audience. Because you know, no agenda nation, man, you can get them do anything. But it may not work in dog catcher though. I'm on your side, J S. I'm trying to help your ship man's like, Hey, this is backwards compatible with podcast. 1.0.

I'm like, except that's not 1.0 That's like 0.9 So let's just be fair. I see it a bunch and Opie three actually, people are still using it. Yeah. Oh, you know, it was quite a number of, of people who, who ultimately wound up switching. So weird, man. It's like, it's kind of what what's up with that Dev, but it just wasn't quite wasn't quite gelling. Somehow. He didn't quite, but I totally agree with you. Anyone that wants to implement

either side? Yeah, let's, let's run with some scissors here. And there's nothing there's nothing more that flushes out like, Oh, this is actually difficult. Or, you know, this doesn't make sense. Other than working code, ultimately. And I think once you have a straw man out there, then it's like it focuses the conversation on like, oh, what would your this secure all that kind of stuff. The only thing I would mention, Adam is that it's

is a server to server protocol. So whoever sending this info, it can't be a client app. So it has to be something where the client app sends it to it some sort of server and the server has to send it over. Because it's a trusted server, because you need to survive it key. Yeah, I think that should work in that case. But I just want to say like, what would you like? That's the requirement? What would your dream first test event be? Close your eyes. Think

about it. Don't answer right away. I want you to dream big is tapped your heels together three times. I think podcasters would be very interested in how many subscribers do you have on the platform, like who clicked follow or whatever the language is for that app? What that is over time, and then also some sort of way of who's listening? Like how far did they go at an aggregated level on this show? How many listeners did it get? As opposed to how many

downloads? I think those would be two good first steps. You can also do ratings this way. I think James was interested in that. I think that's another cool thing to do as well, that's more real time. But if it were me, and it were to pick two, it would be I guess, boring, but it would be subscriptions, info and listens. Okay, those two things I'm not interested in, in ratings at all. It's one star or five stars, PRs, everyone gets three stars. That's it.

So here's, here's a. Here's a layout. So if I'm, if I'm a seriously simple podcasting plugin user, and I want to know how many followers I have, I could use this. And let's just say that there's a followers event. I'm trying to use the term followers and not subscribers. There's a followers event that is opened up on my WordPress instance. And now, excuse me, there's an inbox URL and event hook on my install on my WordPress instance. And it goes into the podcast events tag

within the seriously simple podcasting plugin. And now I begin to get a follower counts delivered to my, to my WordPress instance, from overcast and cast, ematic, and fountain and breeze and all these all these apps. So then, there can be a dashboard, somewhere within the plugin, this shows me, hey, you have you know, 400 followers on overcast, you have 300 followers

on this. And these are, these are not download numbers, these are actual just calculated subscriber counts from the apps themselves, these are, these are real numbers, rather than exactly decipher, is enough of a back end that they could implement it themselves. So you know, I plan on having op three or some sort of system that will be a back end that people can just stick it in their feed. And, you know, we'll do all the hard work for them. If you don't own a backhand, but WordPress, you

could probably make the plugin serve as the as the back end. So yeah, you're right, they could create a simple little thing that says, Thank you very much. And here's, you know, an aggregated view of that over time, for sure. For sure. Yeah, that would be something that I thought specifically about those two, about power press. And seriously simple because they're two examples of a of, you know, highly distributed, turning your own domain into your own web hosting

company. And that, and they already do things like web sub, and they do, you know, they do a lot of a lot of stuff there on the on the private hosting level. So I feel like that is sort of a good way to, if you visualize that even they could do this exact ad to me makes it make a little, it's like, okay, this is doable. All the way down. Yeah, the protocol to extend down to the level of I could actually, you know, spend a weekend on this and do it. So that was actually part of the

reason for me doing a proof of concept. I didn't use any third party libraries. I'm like, How simple would this be to do just with the primitives of a language and it's, it's fairly easy to do. Hey, here's Now I wouldn't I'm not planning on doing the work for WordPress. So sign up for that, but it is it's not impossible. I have a weird question about podcast events. Because you know, it's a very different kind of a technical episodes

interesting. Could I not technically, just do a comment through this system, if it's going to an authenticated server anyway. You could, you could and in fact, I had a meeting with Sam so he is working on a top secret thing that it's basically think of it like, like podcast meets Groupon or not Groupon, but um, swinger party. What was the app that like you become the mayor of and that sort of Kibo. Are you talking about Foursquare? Foursquare? Yeah. So you envision, like, Okay, so the

show is the venue. And so I want to know, as a podcast, or what are people doing, you know, at at the event, so he would send down like, oh, you know, so so and so like the it's like a wall. So every every wall event, you know, the old school way of thinking about along, would be sent down. And what's cool about the events thing is it doesn't have to be aggregated. So if, if like something is blowing up right now, this is a real time

protocol, right. So this is something that could be surfaced like right away, and you get a ping, or, or as soon as you get featured on a particular platform, they can send you a thing, and you would you could know instantly. So that's the other thing I'm really excited about is it does support aggregated events, which is probably what you'd want to do for listings, right? A huge app like Apple podcasts is not going to send real time listened to and nor would we want them to

write because that's, that would break the privacy thing. But for things like real time, like, hey, there's something wrong with your feed, you actually do want to know that fairly quickly. So it does support both models.

So somebody like somebody like pod chaser could send back an event to transistor, saying that this podcast on your platform, just this podcast, that somebody on pod chaser just just rated this show, which is on your which you're the hosting company for don't say, four stars, don't say this is what I hate, because you know, what's next, I can already see the proposal. Label is not safe for work, label, racist, labeled as anti trans label as anti climate change.

It's tricky. Yeah. And that's actually a lot of what we talked about with Sam is, you know what to user than in that mode, because like, every user is different every platform. So it does, and it does tend to look like activity pub, or I don't know if it had Dave, have you looked at the new blue sky stuff, they've actually started to publish some actual code. And it looks really interesting, honestly. So I think it's still early days, like this big to do is like to do authentication.

But I could see that protocol, especially now with Twitter blowing up becoming something a lot of people are working on. So either way, as long as there's some distributive way of saying like, This is who a user is on this platform. I think we keep it pretty semi structured, and just say, here are all the things this app sends. And here are all the things this app says and I think that can be useful to. Man, it must be fro so frustrating to sit at Apple as

an engineer. And think, Man, I can't I can't implement any of this. Apple won't let me do it. Why did they get to have all the fun on this show? We got a we have we make a billion dollars a day? Why can't we do this fun stuff. Speaking of billions of dollars a day, shall we thank a few people. As we go to a buck and a half on today's show. I think we should have a board meeting. So these have come in during our

live show we are live. This has value for value. So everything you're hearing is all kind of supported financially, all the systems that are on the podcast index side, as well as what we talked about earlier with a node with liquidity for anyone who needs to pass payments cheaply back and forth, is provided by you. So if there's if you get value out of this in any way, feel free to go to podcast index.org You can still send us a Fiat fun coupons through PayPal. Or if you don't have a

boost button on your app. You're using an old one. You need to get a new one at nude podcast apps.com And go ahead and boost this boomy. 50,000 SATs. He says Happy Friday high five. Of course, it's a Friday evening over there in Deutschland. So thank you very much. Oost Thank you Bumi a Steven B is alive. I have proof he didn't he didn't boost us but I saw 100 SATs must be a test on the no agenda episode so I'm thinking he's alive. So that's good news. I haven't seen him on the in the

chat room today. I'm concerned man. He was in the hospital. The hippie Okay, Steven Yeah. Blueberries just just send up a red flag every now and then let us know your blueberry is getting in on the promotion angle. 17,776 a big fan of Patriot boost. This Sunday sees the culmination of 30.3 hours of pure uncut high octane douchebaggery 72 contestants in total now the eight winners go toe to toe it's battle of the

douchebags nine I would love to introduce boosts. How would y'all work in booths for bracketed style matches? Toe Lord does that mean that you know the tournament that's the douchebag No I'm seeing how do you work in it's the bracketed style matches that I don't know that the bright you know bracket is style like you this one because are they already using boosts for this? I don't know. I haven't listened to the show. Do I know of the show but I haven't listened to

well, we got a little work on that. Eric p p a big row of ducks. 22,222 Thank you very much, Eric. No other notes. Mike Newman 54,333. SAS greetings boardroom. He says no jingles no karma. Just a boost. We got that for you and we'll give you a boost boost than we had. Let me see tone wrecker trying to orange so many of my artists slash creator friends as well. The struggle is real. Yes, I hear you. Yeah, Tameka is doing the work. He's doing his own music and

it'll really be in the bushes about me. Yeah, about V for V music. Yep. Nice. Nice. Alright, we're relaxed male 22,222 finally hitting a live show y'all sound a bit stone because I normally listen to 1.5 Speed go podcasting? Yes, here we go. Go stir Yeah, you need to stop the one and a half speed is not good for your brain. Do you jog past the Mona Lisa you heathen servo 3333 boosting from crontab Thank you very much Dave oh he were wearing no

that's it. I think we got him all those the pre boosts that we had thank you all very much. That's people who are also sitting in the chat room which you can be alerted to with POD verse that the live stream is live and curio caster you can hit the live chat and the stream simultaneously. It's all it's all part of the next phase and I still haven't got I still haven't gotten the live pod ping from Todd Cochran so I wish said about this and then I'm sure he is as well.

Yeah, I feel like we have there's something that's just not working with sovereign fades dashboard for him. We're gonna have to set up the I'm gonna have to make an something for you. Like you know, I mean, like not for you like something like the one you use like, like the hook we need to get me to give him a hook where he can get on this train. Working as fast as I can to get the podcast pod paying cloud live functionality going. We're getting there. I'm getting getting closer.

Actually. You know, why don't I take one quick look new media show why don't just take a look real quick at his cars you know, in in sovereign feeds, I can pop right in into here, I can bring his feet up. So is this purely a pod ping issue he's having I guess then I think something with Steven B's pod. I think it's something with his pod ping writer is not working right. It's not sending out the live reason code or something is just not whenever whenever Todd

hits it, there's just nothing, nothing happens. It doesn't emit a pod being because I use the same. The same system with a manual manual pod ping page for no agenda and it works. Just weird. Something's weird. Something's not right. Yeah, I don't understand it. It must. Well, if it's working for you, then it's not. Oh, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm sending the pod paying for no agenda. Not not sovereign fee, since we're gonna use sending the pod ping for no agenda.

Because you have us You have my web hook set as your as your web hook URL. You but I never used that because I can't the RSS feed is not there. So I'm sorry. Oh, you're not you're not hitting that button here. You know, I was waiting for you to tell me it was working. Did you set that up with Mark so I can publish this? So wasn't working. I'm not doing it. This is an indication that there are way too many moving parts within this system. And no idea what yeah,

you could just be tied to official button pusher. So stream and URL in there. All I do, man. I just push buttons. It's all but next to me when you need a lot of time. Yeah, and Todd Todd. Also just get on Alby man. I know you want or send a majority of the split to Alabama so you can get some when you see the stats from Albie, you're gonna you're gonna melt as Oscar said, as he mentioned whether or not like if he's getting close to doing the live notifications with fountain.

Interesting you asked that I asked him this specifically and he said yes, they were finishing up the player code and we have a chat scheduled for Monday, so Oh, cool, sweet. That's a big benefit for them because there's there's a lot of those value for value shows. Oh, yeah. I said, Hey, man, are you working on lit? So? I know man when whenever a guy like asked us Hey, do you have time to talk? Oh my gosh, it's something's wrong. run out of

money as he's going on. I'm just hoping for the best now. But I asked him specifically I do have lit on the on the roadmap. So yeah, it's on the way this week. It's a lot of work man doing an app it's a heck of a lot of work to create it. And Oscar moves fast he he's put stuff in so fast. Yeah. You want to do some pay pals? Yeah, I think we should. We got a we've got one. Pay Pal this week. We have really transitioned, haven't we? But this is a big one. Okay. It's from our buddies. John, And

gosh, I'm drawn to blank. John Buddha and over transistor. What? Why can I not remember? You asking me I don't know any name is Justin Jackson. Justin. There you go. John and Justin. Yes, John. And Justin. I just totally drew blank. Thank you, John. Transit they sent us $500 And I forgot his name. Oh. Nice blades. Only him Paula. Night. Thank you so much. They have they don't think they've they've supported us this way before have they?

Yeah, not that I know. I think this is their first donation. Yeah. And so John and John Buddha and Justin Jackson. And he says, John and I are big fans of what you're doing. Thanks so much for everything you do. Thank you. Thank you so much. I love how the hosting community and I will call them a community. They get it? Yeah, yeah, by the way, most of the Bitcoin people they don't get it. Don't ever send us anything. I never see a Bitcoin Maxy saying, hey, you know what,

let's support these guys over here. Let's send the medicine of some some boosts never. Yeah, no, no, no, no. Yes. complain. Thank you, Justin. And yeah, Justin was real. What prompted that donation was the TX T tag because they're really good. Mover on that. They jumped on it. They've already got it in their UI as far as I can. Like he's posted. Dynamite. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, appreciate those guys a lot. Thank you,

Justin. And we've got Dells, it does pay pal so it gets boosts what a transition how we went from 100% Pay Pal to like one one. Roi scheinfeld 54321 ROI always they're always there for us. From the breeze app sitting in the tub with milk and rose petals. And honey in honey milk and rose petals and Honey Do you think he

has like little nymphs around him? You know just at his at his every beck and call just float around little pixies they missed lavender in the air Your Highness Your Highness missed some lavender for you, sir scheinfeld Mike my Newman again we just mentioned my name that back again. 2112 Rush boost through pod verse. Nice. Thank you my he says How about using some of the some of these

proposals together like remote item and events? Producer A is the playlist DJ with a remote item pointing to one of the producer B's items. Yes finally Adam got it. Events can link these things B can always check AES feed to check that the remote item registered to A by A to B is there still are still there ah payload payload of event could provide the links these tags proposals make beautiful music together team repo Mike.

Hey, that's interesting. So you could have an event that is a dynamically generated remote Item No, I'm saying that dynamic. No. So an event could dynamically generated which would mean that the the remote item is not predetermined? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I think I need to smoke more drugs. Yeah, my coffee is wearing off. Let's just keep moving on sometimes. That was a crash and burn sorry. Okay. James Crillon 1001 SATs through fountain He says remote

item, agree that I would not use it for an episode drop. But perhaps I could produce a new podcast trailers feed wholly using remote items. Again, I can't make them consistent. But I reckon I can do that perhaps. And I think he did, as he must have done just that he did just that. And I heard him kind of walking through that particular tag. And I just want to say, again, it was designed with music in mind, let's be honest about it's not like a completely intuitive thing for all podcasters.

Oh, one thing I want to say about that, because I heard him describing it, he was like, Well, I think most of the time, you just want to put the enclosure in there and be done with it. That's it. I think he may be missing the bigger point here, which is you with a remote item, you link to the entire item, which means that you, you all you get the benefit of the absorbing all of its proper all the data, all the metadata.

Yeah, the value blocks, the sound bytes, the all that stuff, like you pull the chapters, the transcript, all that stuff comes with it, when you link to it. And you can still add your own stuff to it, but you also absorb it's like recursion. It's like sub classing. Yeah, right. Right. Right. So you know, you're just you're like extending a class, almost, you're absorbing its properties. And you can add more properties. But again, the practical use case and I've never understood

fee drops and takeovers and all that. It's like no, use my feet is mine. I'm not putting anything else there. But in the context of music and making playlists, using the index and the namespace, infrastructure and architecture. That is really where it's going to shine. Mere Mortals podcast 11 111. They found and it says, this bar buddy car and he says this remote item talk sounds like it

would work well with clips that you guys play. So not only is it applicable to music playlists, but also referencing other podcasts. Yeah. He went exactly the opposite of the other one. Yeah, I love it. Nice. Let's see Jay Cole McCormick. 3333. Through fountain epi says in need of jobs karma. I quit my job at the Weed Shop because they were stealing 15% of my tips and giving it to managers.

I'm confident the future is awesome. If I lean into value for value and double down on podcasting, jobs, jobs, jobs and jobs, let's vote for jobs. You've got karma wrong show but okay. Okay, James Crillon back again 1001 sets the fountain Hey, man, what is this? 1001 It's like he knows the cut off is 1000 It was just doing the extra like just a while. Give these boys little extra. Take a sad boys whooshed just peeking over the wall. Right early picking they're like barely.

Vision is to be second last every week. What you've just described there is an EPG an electronic Yeah. brandguide. Yes. Which most radio stations produced these days anyway, for their apps. It works. Well. Thank you. Thank you, James. That was dynamite. I saw this booster Graham come in. I this was based upon our conversation of hitting pod paying when a new show starts on 100%. Retro, which is still up. And I'm now adding episodes, which are

basically promos for the week. And when he said that, oh, yes, of course, this this actually is a document that they they make to send out to themselves internally, externally, etc. And so I said right away, I said, Hey, I need an EPG from you guys. It needs to be structured. So it needs to be something that can be automatically read in by computer and they will get that to me. So we're on our way. And I will say that putting is going to get even broader in

scope and better. Me and Alex had been brainstorming a bunch of stuff this week. And we get there'll be more news on that front in the future, but it will be it's going to become even more universal. Nice. Gene Everett 33,000 sets he says boost boost boost. Boost boost boost something like that. Karen from the mirror morals podcast back again with a row 611 111 He says there's nobody I trust more than Dave to willy

nilly around in the namespace. That's so inappropriate. Karen SLC sent 1776 SAS and he says not just value for value playlists but also V for V for end of show mixes that split Yeah, all the same. Same. Yeah, they use Yes, yes. Yes. intergalactic boom boss gets splits every time I boost. Yep, exactly right. Sourced send us elite 1337 sets it through pod verse and he says go podcasting go podcast.

First lb boost from podcast. ers. Nice. Max burns and his 40,000 SAS through fountaining and as you drain the wallet, the entire community behind podcasting 2.0 We're doing important work and doing it well really love all the new apps and

features this enables. Thank you, Scott and Jalbert sir Scott on the other show, Instagram. Billy Bones sent us 3333 through fountain no note 6969 from Hey, citizen, through pod verse, he says, I'd just like to interject for a moment, what you're referring to as value is in fact value for value, or as I've

recently taken to calling it value plus value. The value for value is not content unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning podcasting system made useful by the creators, dudes named Ben and vital producers comprising a full p 2.0 system as defined by the namespace. So what is he saying that we need to name it differently? I think he's just saying that it's it's a broad it's even broader in scope than we even Oh, okay. Yes. Thank you. Hey, citizen.

Thank you, Franco. Celerio, the genius developer behind Cass 91107. No note, send a note next time frame now Frank, I missed you. Dave Jackson Hall of Famer send us 2428 through systematics Hall of Famer. Boom, no note. I get Dave Jackson, fellow Hall of Famer fellow. I can't say that you have to say,

oh, Dave, you're gonna get your award man. You're gonna get into 2019 These things this weird the way that works, you'll get an award and watch MIT lion 11 111 They row sticks their breeze, it says just streamed 111 k sets a minute for 10 minutes also in brief, so you can see if those appears boosts or not. I did see that. And it did. I see. And it came through. Yes. And I also You were right. Whoever it was was sending 3033 sets a minute for quite a while the other day.

Yeah. And it's funny you mentioned that because he's next on my list is Auburn citadel. And he shows up Auburn Citadel Hold on. As Wait, let me look at my dashboard. He I think he's one of the top supporters across all the podcasts that I have. With a piece going to Alby which is basically everything he's like, like the top Yeah, he's like 2.2 million SATs or something totally sent to the podcast I'm involved in.

Holy crap. The whale you get a whale we've got a whale we got ourselves a value for value whale. Our Citadel and totals up last episode once 173,316 sets. Thank you overstated? How much did he send? 173,316 Sakala 20 is blades on am Paula means that 5000 SATs from Bumi and he says well who? back get your movie 20 I'm sorry, how much 2125. Oh, contracts center since one 100,021 says friend through fountain Nene says check out contracts dot app for stats

about your stats stats about your SATs. Weight. So the app this is the contract apps and us as the contract app itself this it's clearly achieved sentience and is now sending out mood booster grams. Is it draining my wallet? This is interesting. I will maybe you can send stuff here. I don't know. And it's sending them through fountain. So okay. Right. Brian of London in the hive Dao send us 47,331 SATs

Thank you Brian. Okay, this is this is song lyrics. And when the elegance escapes me the logic ties me up and race me dee doo doo did oh, that's the police to do all I want to do for you to do to lead it's called the dee dee doo doo doo doo doo. That's the name. The DD Duchamp was asked from us synchronicity to think like that referee who is the 11,211 SATs he's for the creator behind ours is blue. He says question, what is the significance of this? palindromic boost? Answer?

I need to refill my fountain wallet 11211 Thank you Dobby does appreciate that. Here it is day. Oh, oh what a great song. It's new doo dee da da da da da da da da da da. Okay, I'm never going to remember that. Great drummer he used to doubler on his drums, which always made it sound like it had a little bit of a delay. And like a little delay effect he has he has a very interesting way of drumming. Yeah, phrasing just looking at him. Like how many arms do you have?

Wasn't he on? Am I crazy? Or was he on like one of those Tonight Show? bands for a while? No, no, I don't think so. For like a short stint. Maybe Max Weinberg? Maybe he was in that first second. That would be the only place I could imagine him. I think he may have sat in for Max Weinberg a few times that Oh, in fact, I think you're right. Yeah, yeah. Did Max Max Weinberg get get canceled? Oh, I don't know. This is needed me. Oh my god. This is way before canceling. Okay, what did he do

for Conan? Because I think he left when Conan kinda got kicked off a TBS, but he was there for like tons of like, lot. I don't know, several years before that. But he he leaves. I there was there was something maybe he did he just leave. I don't know that. I don't remember. What they went back on tour, I think. I don't know. I think he was having a hard I used to watch Conan all the time. I think he just found it hard to do both at a certain

point after 20 years. Right. Yeah, you're a Cohen's ban. Comic Strip blogger, the delimiter. There 1033 sets through fountain and he says, dearest Adam and Dave, you're smart cookie producers are invited to put AI dot cooking into any web browser or podcast app to enjoy the infotainment on offer. Please allow them to be soothed by the silky smooth tones of former BBC BBC actor and TV Show Developer Gregory Forman whilst becoming informed about artificial intelligence. Yo.

Thank you all for hitting that boost button. And thanks for the big boosts. And we have some monthlies guests in monthlies again, Chad Pharoah $20.22 Thank you, Chad. Scott Jalbert $12 Mark, gram $1 New Media $1. David Mitas $10. Thank you, David. Appreciate that. And Joseph maraca $5. And that was, yeah, that's really appreciate transistor coming in, because we lost about $50 a month and Pay Pal and all that we did that we did that. Yeah. So that that really helps. Yeah, that's it.

I was just reading Ice Cube soup in the chat with a feature request, which I thought was really interesting, because we were just talking about these, these high level streaming sat, payments, feature request streaming boosts level elevation, with deadman switch functions like this streaming boost rate is elevated after you push the button and stays elevated until the app notice that you haven't reaffirmed your intent in the last 10 minutes. That's kind of an interesting idea.

I don't understand. Like, so you can decide okay, I'm next I'm going to send 5000 SATs a minute for as long as I'm listening However, every 10 minutes the app is going to ask me if I if I if I'm still here or it will stop like like a crow's which Oh, I see I see. Oh, you fall asleep listening to a podcast Exactly. Like you want it like it's highly rated but you you do want to I don't know. I don't know. I guess you just empty your wallet and booster gram to us. That's all that's that's the

best, the best the most fun you can have. And if it's above $100 In Fiat fun coupons, we will send you an official t shirt, which is not available anywhere except through donations on the show. Am I correct? Do we still have access to this great deal? We do. We do? Is it set one for danger for dare No. Just the other day. Thank you again for supporting podcasting 2.0 the podcasts for supporting the infrastructure for the project. And of course

it's time talent and treasure. So so many of you are doing things that are just including John Spurlock doing amazing work to to to make the circle of scissor running even wider which is appreciate you guys it's it's always fun being on and Dave, I love the fact that like we don't have to have communication meetings like we just have the asynchronous Mastodon I love when you bring up a, you know, a proposal or something you've completely integrated it like, you know, I

never have to yell at the radio and say, you know, it's like this because you get it. And I think that's really cool that like, we have a project where people can kind of do their own thing. But everyone kind of understands the goal here. So I think that that's really cool.

Yeah. Oh, thanks for that. And I think you're right. I think that's the one of the strengths of this project is probably not like a lot of others that I've seen is that everybody is very, it's loose, so it doesn't feel oppressive, but it's also everybody at the same time gets everybody we have a shared vision. A really life. This feels really good. It's not been like anything I've ever experienced before. Even Elon Musk could not hire this team. That's the way I see.

No, effing way. No way. All right, Dave, you good man. You good for the weekend. Everything cool. Yep. Yeah, I'm good, man. I'm gonna head back to the office and finish out the day and then and then memory for the weekend. John Spurlock back to the penthouse. Back to the OP three dungeon to actually work here. So anyone that wants to take lots of meat. Take ad op 3d or feeds folks. Thanks. We'll have something to show in a few weeks. Thanks again for your time, John. Really appreciate it. Yep,

thanks. Yeah, absolutely. Anytime, and everybody in the chat room. Thank you very much for being with us here on this last episode podcasting. 2.1 2.1 2.0 no meetings except for one the board meeting every Friday Friday. We'll see you here next week. Bye bye. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.com. For more information