podcasting 2.0 for September 2 2022, episode 100 streamers and dreamers everybody welcome to podcasting 2.0 Your weekly board meeting for the podcasting next generation. Everything happening in podcasts index.org Of course any developments with apps wallets with posts with the most or maybe just stuff that's going on in podcasts index dot social I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. The man
who two years ago today said Sure let's build it. Say hello to my friend on the other end Mr. Dave Jones one time for the one time one time for the No, I have removed it I have removed the air horn oh you did? Yes. I've divorced ruined it he did overuse it he did and he screwed it up for the rest of us he did it was just no good man. No good are the channels down channels down channel down I think because the podcast index dot social was blowing up while it
goes like the channels are down. We killed the channels what happened? I don't know anything about this is blowing up bonus up with episode 100. Oh yeah. Oh my god. Yeah, the stuff that I've seen it all come in and nothing's broken as far as I can tell. But I do hope that Tanner helps his listening. Because I don't understand this value for value stuff. You know, it just doesn't really work. No, it just doesn't work at all. It's a failed experiment. We
tried. Oh. Oh, I see what's going on one. Let me just count Let me count the digits. 1234567 sit Whoa. 1,001,001 SATs from Dred Scott. Shot Carla 20 is blades on am Paula. She's got on my channel status a okay. Oh, we're still we're still five by five we're in fine as far as I know. Wow. Yeah. And you know, it's so this is this is a beautiful moment out there's sup Yo sup? One time for the chimps in the 305 with a 100,000 or one says yeah, this will go on for this will go on forever.
This is gonna this is not going to end well. This is going to end with melted nodes is what this is. Yeah. This is one of the beautiful things of value for value is the numerology when people it's kind of cool that we have such large arrays of numbers to play with, you know, you do 1000 SATs, you can do a lot of fun numbers with that. Yes, I hear you 15 year olds with the calculator upside down. But you can do as many as you want. Really, you can have 100
million, that's all fine. But when people just automatically we didn't say give us 100,000 sat boosts. People just do that it became a whole thing. This is how it works. Pay attention. This is how value value functions. This this is a that is a perfect that's a perfect way to go into
that topic. me because I had I had written this okay. You know, I wrote a bunch of notes about about a bunch of things but here here's let's see if you go back to the earliest episodes of this show compare them to the to what is going on on each episode now. Yeah. The beat the feedback from the listeners that jingles the boosts the things that we do none of that was any it was part of any plan ever. The the the listeners, the producers of the
show, did it they created the show that they want. They know you have now graduated that I'm curious value for value University. Yes, that not including the odd not including the audience in the show. If you don't make your the audience a part of the show, then they're your they're never going to feel a part of the show and they're not going to feel the value connection. Yes, you're not going to your mileage will vary significantly. Yes. Yeah.
It's not a gimmick. It's not a gimmick. The listeners create the show they help you create the show. And that's where value for value expands from time talent and treasure because you can you can help in many ways. See dub says don't consume the content become the content. I like it. Yeah. I like it. And you know, I gave it a gave it a stab at bit block boom on if you had a chance to see it's all He was really, really low. So I don't know if many people watch the video.
Yes, I saw I watched it in bits and pieces all throughout the week it was, I couldn't get one consistent time slot to do it. But no, it was good. It was good. You really know it's getting tighter, it's getting tighter. You had a lot you had more freedom to, to, to do it in there at that conference than you did at Podcast Movement. You already get such a tight window there. Oh, yeah, there was, there was there was no explaining value for value at Podcast Movement. But this was also a room full of
Bitcoiners. So people who already kind of have an understanding of time value, you know, these these concepts that's kind of baked into a Bitcoin owner, which I think is why it's so attractive to me is like, okay, I get it. So it was really easy to, I think. Yeah, I mean, it's a big concept for people. And I think unless you really, that's why I love what Chiron is doing the value for value podcast, unless you really pay attention to how this feedback loops work. And I'm
trying to come up with a great acronym. It's basically it's ask its repeat. Its ask, acknowledge, I want to call somebody like ours, but I couldn't. So I kind of gave up. I gave up on trying to name it, once I can name it flow better. You know, and it's, it's easy to miss what is going on? Because the main point is, it's yes, it's a way to, if I can just use
the word to monetize. But that's really incorrect because you're exchanging value, but it's just, you know, it's like, it's like Venmo just trying to explain something easily monetize, and it's a content format. And we haven't figured it out for all for all podcasts, etc. I mean, there's no there's many different ways of doing it. But the acknowledgement cycle has to be in there. It's like Texas, slim meat stayed overnight, whatever it is slim drives from the panhandle to Austin, which I
think is like, like 500 miles or something. And he drives it a lot. Yeah. So stop off in Fredericksburg. You know, we we feed his horses and we we we put them up in the bunkhouse Where does what's the big city in the Panhandle in? Amarillo? Amarillo. Yes. And with the Cadillacs with the Cadillac, he's up there. Yeah, he's up there. And oh, yeah. And so he, you know, he's, he's running value for value. And this is very difficult for him because he literally is a cowboy. He grew
up as a cowboy. As a rancher, he rode rodeo and professionally, he's been around cattle and around just farm all his life. But he then also got an education in telecommunications, and he worked in I think telecommunications intelligence or something. Oh, yes. All Austin is spooky city. And then, and then after he broke his neck, he got he got into into food. What do you call foods, what he calls food intelligence anyway, so he's not a guy that is not in his blood to ask for
money. That's not how it works. But he was able to translate it to his own personality into a barn raising. Oh, a barn raising. Yeah, everyone comes out and pitches in. Oh, okay. So so he got that concept. And then he got $1,000 donation from somebody, which was the largest he's received so far and said, Okay, you have to acknowledge this. Yeah, that's a lot of money. You got to acknowledge it, because that also becomes aspirational it it sets a bar, it's a community thing. You I
can't explain. We need a psychologist. It just works. I'm glad you mentioned psychology, because it's so in this I had a long discussion with with Tanner, he actually pinged me on or DM me on Twitter. And he does this from time to time. You want to explain what what the info the impetus was for this ping? You know, I really don't know. I don't, I don't really talk to him. And we're not what he wasn't, wasn't it because people were ragging on his post.
I think this I think he wrote the I think he published the post, roughly after we had this discussion. Well, you did a good job, evidently, but maybe I didn't do as good jobs. But, you know, he thinks me every now and then just, you know, once in a while and just talks about being very vague, I think. I think he knows that he's, I think he knows he's missing something. And I think there's a there's a mental thing, a disconnect there because I think he knows him. He's He's missing something
because it's clearly successful. Some and I'm speaking for him unjustifiably as he sees that it is successful in certain situations in say, whoa, whoa, why? Well, I think he's being intellectually honest. You know, as far as his understanding of the concept will take him. You know, that's as far as I can say, because I don't I don't I don't know. I don't I think it's just blockage. It's just blockage. I think it is, I think his bucket and actually, I prayed for Tanner this morning
and like, help him help him see the light. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I am a leaky bucket on the ship. Now. It's like, I'm not gonna get mad about this, like, how can I help him see the light? You know, slim gets it, he had needed a different paradigm. I think the hardest part, for a person. Thing who thinks like, Tanner, as a podcast consultant type in this kind of thing? Is they say, there's no money in consulting value for value thing. No, you
answered the questions. You answered the question. There you go, is the economics, economics in general, but also, it extends to podcasting. Economics is not a math problem. It seems that way. Because, you know, we have to do calculations and keep Ledger's and stuff I net. By the way, Dave is an Austrian economist in his spare time. I know this for a fact. We, the that is the Austrian principle is the economics is not a math problem. It's a behavior problem. And when I say
problem, I don't mean like something negative. I just mean it's a it's a behavioral thing to figure out. It's, it's why of Ludwig von Mises didn't talk about math, right? Or models. He talked about praxeology, which is the study of human behavior. If if I offer if, if I'm a producer, and I offer this offer this thing or, or this sets, but offer a thing, or this sets of conditions are true, then what type of behavior is the most likely outcome? Right? That's the types of questions you ask
about economic things, you don't ask? Well, if you know, p, you know, p over you know, p over y, you know, on a on a slope of x equal, that's not the right thing. So when you when you see somebody who's trying to understand the FBI, and they're trying, they're putting it into, well, if I have this many listeners, and I have this meat, you know, and this many are engaged for this many episodes. And then I can get this sort of CPM on this ministry. So of course, you've already you've already met.
Thank you. Thank you, we should have been talking about this. I know that this is your stance because we talked about it. I think outside of the show, I'm so glad that you bring this up. But no matter how much, it's not a math problem, and no matter how compelling you think the math is, you can write all this stuff out and it can make perfect sense. I'm telling you, it doesn't work that way. Ask Michelle Obama, it does not work that way.
You know, had me up until Michelle Obama, then I kind of lost shows, shows that you think you're gonna be successful and have a certain audience sizes and that Oh, her? Yes. Both the aggregation in this, again, applies to all of economics. aggregate numbers are only useful after the fact. Yeah, it's a modeling trailing indicator, it is modeling them always fails. That's why central banks get it wrong. So often, macroeconomics is smoke and mirrors. It's, it's not something that you can do
forecasting in that way. Is I mean, really, it really all comes down to this. I think you have to be I'm sorry, go ahead. I was I was going to say an excellent example of that was cheerleader Trump. Cheerleader Trump had a way of I believe he actually moved markets and paths in positive ways because of his incessant constant reaffirmation and cheerleading of the market. Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. What you see it in the opposite way. What happens when the with what was happening predicted yesterday?
was okay, if there's 100,000 print on the jobless number, then the markets are gonna fly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's like, that's exactly what you would wouldn't expect to say. But then the thinking is, okay. Well, if it's a bad print, you know, on the on the unemployment rate in that means that the Federal Reserve will be more likely to do quantitative easing or to go dovish, therefore, stock market, boom. It's like, right, right, right. That's all behavior. None of
that is math. None of it at all. In it You know, you have, it really all comes down to us subject, subjective value. These are the these are economic laws, subjective value, you the value of a thing is always determined not by you, but by the individual that's acquiring it. And marginal utility, the more of a thing you have, the less value you place on each additional unit of that thing. Those two principles are not
math, their behavior. And if you don't understand that, you'll never understand value for value, because value for value relies on those understandings of human behavior to function. And it's interesting, because what you said there, I would not have understood if I didn't understand value for value, because value for value and action, you know, 15 years, by the way, I was just thinking podcast consultants. I'm going to start praying for you too, because I have a land I guess
it's a group. I pray for groups come on the podcast in 2.0 people, no agenda, nation, people? I do. Yeah. But you know, Texas, slim would be separate up, I pray for you all the time. Keep them alive, Lord. Thank you. But I do I do. But consultants, I always kind of like because of this problem that you just highlighted, like, you know, CPMs above I think becoming a podcasting 2.0 value for value consultant, where you in perpetuity, or in some scale receive a split of that person's
value block. And I'll take you one step further. You show me how you teach people value for value as a consultant, and I will give you an official pod father certification as a value for value consultant for a sub split of your split, obviously. But just 1% just one person. This is like Trump University. I don't know if it should be offended or not. Is it's get do a bunch of stuff. And then I'll give you I'll like certify you like you're also
Yes, Dave, thanks for blowing my cover. But seriously, I mean, think about why wouldn't you consult someone help them with value for value, help them hone their pitch help them with, you know, the reminder, like a newsletter or some way that you remind people is coming, you know, the social media as a lot of different things. And then for X period, or whatever it is, you get put in the value block. And of course, you get your
value based upon how well your client does. This is not a bad vocation, that it's actually a genius idea. That's a really good idea. It's in it's just like, you're you're trying to find an analogy to that to happen to something because there's got to be stuff that works that way already, right? No, no, no, not at all. No, there's no analogy to this. This is completely new. All right, let me try to show you this. Sports. So I don't know anything about this. But okay, sports. Yes.
You could have maybe the analogy is like a sports. So you at the elite level, you know, sick take somebody like a tiger, would they those guys still have trainers and coaches? Sure. And they pay those guys and they get paid good money. The better they do, the more they get paid. This is my this is my mistake. John and I are divorced. And I've been doing this for free with people for a long time. We're idiots. Of course, we didn't have we didn't have the
mechanism. Now we have the mechanism. This is this is really interesting. I you know, I'm, I like this. I like that idea. It's a it's a really good idea. Maybe Maybe you call it a value for value coach. I mean, that's probably a more accurate description of what it is. But But anyway, it's very it's verifiable, that the person has you in their in their split, you know? I don't know, man, that just kind of came to me. I'm like, I'm seeing an exit
strategy for myself. I get to 20 podcasts that I'm coaching negotiating podcast on podcast broker in Nice. Shall we bring our guests in because I feel like our guests can contribute very much to today's program, which of course is not even a program. It's a meeting of the board. And so of course, I know our guest and I, I've seen I know his contributions, but I was thinking that hold on a second.
What exactly does this guy do and Sounds like and I looked at his LinkedIn and which I put a link to, but I'm going to read verbatim what Dave said. Because I thought this kind of covered it all. Host of the causality podcast owner of the engineered network, the developer of the sound biter app, several boosting scripts, including the cron boost, I think, has 2.0 integrated across all of his shows an early adopter of two point stuff. And he's an Australian ladies and gentlemen,
please say hello to John Chingy. How's it going? Good day to you, sir. Early morning for you. I guess. What is it? 730 it is exactly. 730. Yes. So, thanks for having me on, guys. It's it's a thrill to be on here. It really is. Especially on show 100 That's kind of blown me away. From the beginning. Oh, man. Did you bring up a present? I I'll just shove it down the microphone. Hang on. Yeah, me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He has that Australian radio guy humor. Were you in radio ever John?
Not not radio. Right. Not broadcast radio? No. But my radio? Not exactly. I've been an amateur radio operator for forever. Bros 20 threes, ya know, right. I kind of watch. What's your calls? VK 40 Double ly. Fortunately, K for DWI. You'll have to double i Yeah, you'll have to go back through the archives. Unfortunately, I had a long long running conversation with my significant other regarding putting up antennas in my yard. And it didn't did not
go my way. So yes, some some things may have lapsed, but I have every intention of reviving them shortly. But that's another story. Yeah, I I just I just made sure we got a bigger yard. I haven't set anything up yet. But that come I think every every Ham has that has that conversation. I haven't logged into QR zed.com. So long as you see if you're gonna have photos on your on your profile page. I'm a nerd. I'm a nerd. What is the big what's the big antenna? The one that just takes
up so much space? Is that a two meter? No, that'd be more like 10 meter. I'm sorry. 40 meter or, God forbid, 80 meter is you have to stretch to use. They we used to always the way we do a distress the wire between like two trees in the backyard. It'd be this bit take up half the yard. Yep, I used to have a G five RV, which was a multiband dipole. And it was it was pretty good. And I tried doing an inverted L
for 160 meters because I was truly insane. And I ended up I grabbed a capacitor out of an old TV set and I was using to try and shoot it. Yeah, I didn't stop to think that maybe the voltage there was a little high and I had up on the webbing of my hand was gonna say like that can be like 10,000 volts or something some crazy. Yeah, yes, I have a little scar on the webbing of my hands. So that was not a real ham until you've had RF burn or something like that.
We've We've all had that. And we all suddenly if I feel really weird. It's one of those moments. Like half a kilowatt. It's like, how do you? What kind of tingly? Okay, let's unki Oh, okay, maybe we should look at what's going on here. Something is wrong. Very funny. Good times. But anyway, I've been wanting to have you on the show forever. John. Cuz I mean, you've you went into with both feet like so early and just you have full on you embrace the running with
scissors ethos. Pretty much right off the bat. I'm Brian embraced it before you coined the phrase. Yes, you did. You conceptualized it, if not quite even if you didn't coin it. So yeah, no, you you started. Let's see we started Wii for Wii U, or one of the the first Wii for Wii, a value tag podcasts. I mean, you had to have been in the first, maybe five? Yeah, I think it was in the first maybe 10 or so maybe does first doesn't. So I started I look back, and I was when did I
actually do my first post on it was in December of 2020. And so I then just for just for the hell of it. I look through my and I guess that's my position is that I own the whole stack. So I like I host my own feed. I host in air quotes. I mean, it goes by Cloudflare. So you know, there's that but you know, anyway, so I used to go Hugo as a static file generator, and I wrote all my templates and everything. And so I kind of control the whole stack. So I don't have to ask or wait for Lipson or
are you an email? Are you an emacs guy? Oh, come on, but but I don't like VI and I much prefer nano but this may Yes. Sorry. No, you have to win. You have to understand that I grew up in Marvel of these guys who would just be their fingers are flying and I'm just looking at the screen and like, this is like magic. And I spent years dropping it picking it up picking it up. And by the time I finally got a little proficient everyone's like glad nano bitch.
Well, I will have to say, John, I saw a interview with John Carmack recently. And he is using Visual Studio so I don't was and he was recently asked about like the Emacs and he's like, he's like I tried it. I just can't get into it. I'm fine with the you know, with being a Frou Frou Adiga not? I do not need that in my life. Okay, I don't need RC files in my life. So are you doing video? That's because you were fine.
Yeah, I did. Okay, you know, like, like, I have too many podcasts I've done, I started a lot of them, right, you know. And so I tried the same thing with video. And I thought, hey, I could do a video podcast and do value for value on that as well. And so earlier this year, it was actually over the Christmas break, I had the brainwave for inspiration. And I did this little spin off, I guess you could call it a
pragmatic called pragmatic electric. And there are a whole bunch of very short, like, three to eight minute long videos, post them on the website, put them up with a with a video enclosure in the feed, and all the vapor value stuff and such. And I also put them up on my YouTube channel. But of course, you know, that wasn't really the intent I wanted to set. So I test the waters and it got some, you know, downloads I guess, but really wasn't all that popular. So I haven't got back to
unlimited five episodes and left it there. So I might come back to it. You have podcast debris is? Yes. So I had a I had a look through my XML file and I looked at all the different tags I've added and actually you surprised myself. So just to list them out. I've added locked Funding Value good social trailer license, medium chapter soundbite images, location, transcript and person. Nice. As always, yeah, because why not? Right. Yeah. Because I've been
podcasting since 2012. Ish. Although my first efforts were terrible. That's okay. I've gotten better with age. Anyway, I'd like to I'd like to think so. And when I came across podcasting, two point I was racking my brain is how did I come across this? I just came across it somehow on the fediverse. I don't know how I'm just glad. It was about I joined about episode six. And then I listened to the back catalogue. And I've kept up with every week ever since. And I'm like, Oh,
that's a great idea. I could add that. Oh, that's a great idea. I can add that. And I just, you know, yeah, it just kind of snowballed. And yeah, there you go. When you don't have customers, and you can you own the whole stack. It's so free. That's do whatever you want. That was always our business plan. Yeah, don't have any customer. No customers. They don't pay us. They're not really customers.
That's right. So what is your so we were talking before you entered the border and what what is your, on the vif on the value for value thing? Like? You integrate it into your show? Your show is your show is different. It's it's unique. And, like, how do you I don't I don't want to open ask an open ended question like how do you conceptualize V for V is more like, I'm trying to understand what how you how you determine how that you're going to put it into the pitch or make it part
of your show? Because I like, I like how you do it. I mean, you know, I'm a big fan of your stuff. But what how do you as a host want. Let me step back for a second. One reason I'm really wanting to have you on the show is because you're technical, but you're also a podcast host. And you're a podcaster. And we don't we don't really hear we don't have podcasters on the show very often, that we have really more more deep technical, like
coders. And since you're both inhale, it's it's nice to hear what your perspective is from a podcaster side of things of value for value instead of just on the technical side. Okay. Well, I guess the thing is that I I never thought of it or saw it as value for value by name necessarily, but it's something that I know that there has been referred to that way a lot by you guys. And Adam, of course, historically, it's something that's sort of become a an ethos of sorts, I guess.
But the point is that, prior to me integrating all this stuff, I did have sort of loose feedback mechanisms, I guess you could say and like if you want to support Shokan suppose on Patreon, I started a Patreon in 2015. When I launched the engineer network, as a concept, I guess you could call it more than anything And when I did that, I said, Look, I'll give you guys like anyone who's a platinum sorry, hang on not
platinum, silver producer. And above all, they will get acknowledgment like so I thank them every episode that sort of like an acknowledgement, the acknowledgement component of the vase value. And it when when this VI vi came along, I hadn't really come across Bitcoin, I mean, I knew what it was, I just didn't dig into it. And you guys inspired me to dig into it. So I built my node and, and I started to realize that what I was doing for the longest time was kind of a very loose, slow, very
platform dependents. Kind of value for value thing. Because if I'm, if I'm going through Patreon, and Patreon decide, oh, you know what, John, we don't like what you said on this episode, because let's say I do an episode of causality. And it's about, I don't know Exxon Mobil, or I don't know. And it's critical of them. And they say, oh, you know, we don't like this guy. And we're just going to D platformed. me off of Patreon. I've lost all of my patrons, and I've lost a decent chunk of my
income. So when I saw value for value, and I thought about, I'm like, Well, you know what, this would basically sidestep that issue completely, because it would be almost impossible. I say, almost impossible. Anything's possible if you're really motivated, but far more difficult, which is why I like it when Adam says it's censorship resistant, is resistant, yes, non immune, but definitely resistant to those
sorts of deep platforming attempts. And when I brought it on, I just found it was a natural fit, just to simply extend that and so I'm, for example, now, Dave, you started supporting causality through repeating cron boosts. And by the way, thank you for that script inspired me to write my domain, we're using our G RPC. But the, the idea is that now I've added you as well, because I have a script that then looks for that and says, yep, that's the monthly There you go. And I
add that to every show read now. And that's the feedback mechanism. So okay, I don't know if that answered the question or not. But I see. It fitted nicely to be honest with what I was doing, and it's just made it better. So was it was the prime motivator there? Because I'm, there's two parts to the value for value, was the prime motivator, the censorship resistance? Or do you also see a benefit to not structuring levels for people and leaving it free and open?
I do like that as well. I guess I so I saw, okay, it's a really good question. I have multiple tiers in my Patreon. And I did that so that people could feel like they could support at any level that they felt. But the problem is that they're still predefined levels. And ultimately, you can't tell someone what something's worth, which is what you've just talked about before. And so the value of it also gives people the complete, ultimate flexibility to contribute whatever they want
on an infinitely granular scale, which is brilliant. And you can't really do that, because you can't have an infinite number of tears and Patreon. But you can with a devalue, so to speak. Yeah, that's one of the things that we're talking about in, in this conversation that I had with the, with Tanner was that,
you, you it's about eliminating the floor and the ceiling. It really is like, when you I don't think this is hard for people to I think get their head around is that when you have a set price on something, it's not like, there's an illusion of control, where you can say, where you say, Well, I'm extracting this value from the from the listener, or from the, you know, consumer would or whatever. But this really doesn't work like that. Because if the price isn't right, they just won't buy it.
And so, like it within the market, that's, that goes back to the marginal utility aspect. And that, that I think, is part the subjective value part of it, I think is easy to understand them where the listener assigns the value, the marginal utility part is harder to understand, I think, you know, in the concept there for people that don't know that term is that when you ask yourself the question, not why would you buy something? But why
would you keep buying? Why would you keep buying more of a thing? So something like, let's just say that you have, you go to the grocery store, and the hot dogs are on sale, and you buy in there on sale for half price? So instead of buying one pack of hot dogs like you normally would you buy two? The question is why wouldn't you buy three or four? Or five? Like why would you stop
buying them if they're a really good price? And the answer is because every time with every additional pack that you buy every additional unit, your your value, your your perceived value of that thing, or your value you place on every additional unit goes down. That's the marginal utility and In the the fact that there's 4 million podcasts out there, there's always something this, there's always something you can listen to next, there's
no lack of content. So how do you get your listener to not only value your content, but see it as unique as something that is, it's not just another pack of hot dogs in that's, that's where removing all the barriers, removing this sort of artificial ceiling and artificial floor pre creates a range, this huge window, where any perceived value can be rewarded, not just predefined levels where you say, okay, in order to get, you know, in order to show me value, give me value back, you have to hit
this threshold or this other threshold, which are arbitrary, you, you remove the barriers, and then you show the listener, the uniqueness and the value proposition that you have. I think that's probably the harder part to understand. But when you when, like, when you do like the cron job, here's here's the way I saw that when I wrote that thing, and started sending out cron job boost. I was a hand Magic Mouse with you. I love causality. It's one of my favorite podcasts is moment on
top three. And I was afraid that you would stop. I was afraid that if I don't support John, because they because I know that you Your show is very unique, it gives gives information that I can't get anywhere else from an expert in the field. And also, that it takes a long time and a lot of prep. I mean, it takes you I don't know how many hours to prep in an episode of causality, but it's clearly a lot. And I'm like, You know what, this will burn somebody out. If I don't reward him, he
may stop doing it at some point. And the longer it goes, the reward is actually going to go up, because I'll get more afraid of that. Yeah, it's yeah, I look, I really do appreciate it. And I appreciate I'm grateful that I have people that are fans of, of causality, you know, as much as you are. I hear what you're saying and the situation with why would I give what I stopped doing or what I get burned out? The truth is, I already had kind
of had that burnout moment back in early 2015. And I actually stopped podcasting for nearly six months. And because I used to do pragmatic every week and ice do similar at similar levels of prep, my record was 40 hours of prep for an episode. And I was doing a day job and I had young kids. And it was it was not a good situation. So I had to just sort of like take a
pause. So the cadence I've tried to go for is every month and doing a monthly show, because weekly at that level of detail that like the level of quality I want to have in my in my shows, I need to put that time in. I feel like I need to I sorry, I can't not do it. So but yeah, I mean, and the great thing about the way that they value has been set up with booster grams and
streaming sets. And now we've got, you know, cron boosting, for example, for regular repeated boosting is you've got the ultimate flexibility you can choose how to support your shows the way that you want to. And I think that that is something that is just not available anywhere else. Oh, man, I love listening to you nerds. I wanted to throw something on the table that kind of hit me it's really simple. And I think kind of came bubbling up for me during our
time in Dallas. Like wow, we need more people developing apps and we need to somehow communicate that they're there. This is the hard part. I believe there's a market for some other podcast listening experiences. And one that comes to mind is what I'm calling the OMA app. And if you speak old Texan, German Texan, OMA is the grandma. And and it's an when I envision this because I see it all the time on on TV. It's like look at this phone. It has huge buttons and has a really loud
speakerphone. Like the jitterbug. Yes. Yeah. Like that, like the jitterbug. Okay. There's a significant audience that is just struggling a little bit. Because it's still just a little bit too. Most of the screens are busy, there's clips and there's all kinds of features. I'm talking something really, really simple. Yeah, like, just simpler than anything we have. I just feels like there's there's a market there.
And I kind of know this because there's there's people who are 60 and up there trying to, you know, they listen to a Korean zookeeper which is surprising it DNS turns out, and they're really struggling in the trial. And as I can see, it's just there's just too many options too many triple button, you know, triple dot menus that are hidden. It's just not a normal discovery mode for I think, a very large group. What? what's your what's your daily driver podcast app? John, to put you on the spot?
Well, I actually have two now. So Brian to podcasting 2.0 I used overcast. But since podcasting 2.0 apps have essentially matured and support the whole value of anything I now run to so anything it's a as a streaming value app, I play through cost thematic, and anything else that isn't goes through overcast because yeah, I just, yeah, just thematic. Yeah, I'm the same way a go up pretty much live in cast ematic.
And then I bounce over to overcast when I need to. And I think I think what I like about caster Matic may be what you're talking about Adam. It's the the touch points. And a real big in its it just feels less cluttered and busy. Crap. Yeah, this is the one I really don't use because I'm no longer I have no longer have apple in my life project at Apple for my life. Interesting, okay, that I can dig one up somewhere and check it out. But besides that, I just feel that
there. It's unexplored. I don't want people to get caught. I don't want to be bashful about you know, some other crazy idea you might have, particularly as we're gonna hopefully talk about music. Yeah. I'm gonna make you want to talk about that. Let's go. Let's go for it. Have you had some ideas this week? And I talked to the dystopia guys, last week, and I feel like we have a lot of I feel like we have a lot of routes to music in. I'm not sure how to make it go faster.
Yeah, this is what I've thought about. Okay. So first of all, we have as far as I know, one app that has a music interface, curio caster, I don't know if there's any other and I also don't, I think this should be a separate app. You know, Spotify is having a hard time putting podcasting into music. Why would music into podcasting be any any easier? That's just me. I'm not a developer. So I'm just laying out what I think would work for a really didn't hit me until I realized how big how over
capitalized and what a shit show. SoundCloud is, man, you gotta look at the you gotta look at him we keep talking about they're like corporate structure was messy or something. Oh, my God, this so much. So much money has gone into this. And of course, what happened is he had let me just look it up for you. SoundCloud, Spotify, it is perhaps one of the largest collections of music in the world. But as it was,
it's been completely mismanaged. As I said, over capitalize, it just listened to it's like, so many so much money went to this hundreds of millions of dollars. And it was got huge. When it got really big. When not then the record labels they tried to get in, they bought another 75 million here 75 million their purchase, but not now. It's just a thing that just sit there sits there. And it's kind of has no future here, but what they have
is RSS feeds with enclosures. So here's this thing. And shoot, I just close it. If you look at the stats of how many artists and I mean, it's kind of like everybody, I think every artist still has one or they still upload their. You know what I mean? It's like one of those things. You still have one, don't you? Yeah, it's like it's like a, it's like a MySpace account or so. Exactly. Exactly. But you know how it works, you know how to upload
it. So if someone wants to 2.0 enable their music, and this is hundreds of millions of artists. It's crazy how many people on this thing. If they haven't already. In their settings, they have to enable RSS feed, enable the RSS feed. And then the next step would be an onboarding similar to podcast or wallet
except two things have to happen. And this is what I wanted to discuss because, you know it's a shim, but unlike Like, when we started with podcasting 2.0, you know, the hosting companies, they had the RSS feed, they had the enclosures, we put the shim in the value the value block shim
into the into the index. If we can add a shim, that when someone claims their, their music wallet, that then we flip the bit on the medium tag to music, so every app now can recognize Okay, and then hopefully, that would drive if not SoundCloud itself, other places like this topia and other music sites to start generating 2.0 compatible feeds with the medium tags set to music, and then then I think we're off to the races. Then how hard is it for when amp to implement some
of this stuff? You know, I was like, Come on people, let's get some energy into this shit. Well, the the problem, the only problem? The only issue is why there's two of us. Yes. The only the only issue is that there would have to be some sort of you can't assume that everything on SoundCloud has music, because it's not. So the SoundCloud can be anything. I mean, there's lots of spoken word podcasts that are on SoundCloud. Just then you can say, you can say it does. Does your feed contain
music tracks? And then you I mean, yeah, you obviously you make it a choice? Because yes, some people actually use that as a podcasting platform. They have entire instructions on how to get your SoundCloud podcast into iTunes. So I think we if we hand them that one extra bit at their responsibility, of course, then we can start developing music apps or start integrating music apps from from the index. What would that look like? So that would that look like on
onboarding them in the same way? There's like a podcast or wallet? Yeah, exactly the same way could it could be an app itself, we just like, like fountain does it interacting with us? And then you say, and then there's just this extra question that says, Is this a music podcast? Yeah, and explain it. You know, this means each each. Each entry in your, in your feed is a music track.
Okay. There's something out there. There's also something out there that can, by the way, why don't we put that into input into podcaster wallet to just add that right in there? If someone has a podcast that using a podcast host and they want to flip the bit to to music? Give them that opportunity? Okay, yeah, so you're saying leave it, almost like leave everything the same? And then just say,
under the hood, yeah. But we need a different hood. We if we go down the road of now you can do music and podcasts is it's not a good story. I don't believe that's the way to go. I think we need fresh ideas, fresh music, music players, music apps. Don't try to confuse the two don't make it podcast or wallet now also for music. Drive everyone towards the music stuff. It's the same thing on the back end. It's just you understand what I'm saying? If we're gonna do music, it has to
be it has to be kind of divorced from podcast. For it for people to understand. There needs to be a different app. Yeah, well, different apps, but also a different way to to claim your wallet is just a different music to point out whatever whatever we call it music wallet. As musicians wallet. Yeah, it's doing the same thing underneath. Yeah, with a split editor so that they can put their writer composer musicians who played etc. Yeah, it'll need explaining. It'll need writing.
None of which we're good at. Speak for yourself. We're great. I'm great at it. No, no, your job is to build terrible Your job is to build snazzy UI. That's your jobs. Yes. It makes you well then well, wow factor that UI wow factor. There's like 140,000 Spotlight just posted. There's like 140,000 SoundCloud feeds in the index. That's, that's a large corpus of the material to
that would be pretty good. Now. Now if we can reach out to those people or, you know, once we need an app, someone needs to, I mean, I think Steven B is working on something dedicated. It can be a web app, you know, as long as we get started with something, this is what we saw. We saw podcasting 2.0 and all its glory really start to take off Very early on, actually. And we had Martin from pod friend, he gave it a try, and it just didn't work. And it's very hard to build an RSS feed generated,
particularly one that imports an existing feed. And Steven B, he fucking grinded through it. And then he went through all the terrible parts and got to a finished product peak. And he got he got out the other end. And he's got some scrapes and bruises smells a little funky. But but it's it's that I think once we could create our once we were eating our own dog food on the on this show in particular, then it really
started to work, it really started to sing. And once anybody could just check out a feed and mess with it and create a pirated, feed and put chapters in it and upload it to anchor. You know, that's when stuff, I think that's really when stuff took off. So to have just as easy conversion for SoundCloud. And then moving forward, I can see hosting companies doing this, it'll be this, it'll be the same path. But this is this is the way forward for a lot of this stuff. And I think people
are just now starting to see we're really at the cusp. I thought we were not we're really at the beginning of this if people getting it. So the SoundCloud thing is is there. Do they on their side, go through the process of making sure that it's not copyrighted content? And yeah, they do all that work. Yes,
this is the beauty of it. That is the beauty as a police it, you know, but they also have licenses and they have licenses, I think, where you can add stuff to your mix your hip hop mix, or your samples that you put in. And that's, that's what's so great about it. And they already went through all the I remember this too, they went through all the hassle of setting up the somewhere I even I was interviewed, I think for the New York Times, I said this is great. This is great what
they're doing. And then you know, I don't know what happened, but it was didn't get bought, get bought resold refinance is a shitshow. But it's sitting there as this big behemoth just waiting to be tapped 140,000 feeds man, if all people had to do is just claim their wallet and and say yeah, music boom, you got a pretty good, a pretty good base there. And musicians, they inherently understand value for value, I think. On a certain level there used to there used
to be a core. So yes, this is as all artists are, in some way. So I'll just keep revisiting this. Because until someone does I know we have what maybe you have a 3030 feeds in there that have medium equals music set. Yes, not a lot. So once that goes up is a good, it's a sandbox. I mean, we it's enough to work with that to say thank you, you know, I think this can be I think there may be a chance
to automate this. And I mean, to a certain extent that I don't mean I don't mean getting I don't mean going crazy with it. No but snip snip as you get. I'll be Flippity flop flop. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking flippety flip flip snip, like there's your lb Flippity flop flop. So there's gotta be a way to to look at the sound file, the look at a sound file and say, Okay, this is spoken word. This is music. I mean, the waveforms are completely different, right?
There's got to be a way to automate that. Yeah, but why not just do it. Just having it work is missing the point. If we don't have someone getting in there, getting into a wallet and setting that up and starting to see the beauty of plays coming in, then I think we I get you on that point. I'm just saying that like if somebody to take if you can onboard a person, and then they don't have to make a decision. Like you don't have to go through the process of explaining is this mute? Is this
music and when I say Music What I mean is Is it a music? Is it a show that has music as tracks instead of a show about music? You don't have to go through all that stuff. It's just like boom, boom, boom, no, or whatever. You know, I disagree. We need to turn it around. We need to we need to put that up front. This is for music tracks. Yeah. That's it don't ask convoluted questions don't this is from music tracks.
Okay, here's here's a better intro better explanation. It's basically it's just it's just a it's like a button you have to press after you've already asked to come in. Okay. I mean, it's you don't you don't need to explain at all if you're coming from SoundCloud just ordered for this. It's already down this hill. So what Yeah, clearly.
What I say what I'm trying to say is can Could you could you like To double check them or something and say you onboard them and you're like, this music pod, wallet something.com or something, you bring them you bring a person in, and then it says, or podcast or wallet itself says, Oh, hey, this these tracks looks like music. Is this a music podcast? Oh, okay. Oh my god, where did you go to Silicon Valley on your way back from Dallas? Did you stop off at the at the Frou Frou farm?
Yeah. Okay, I get understand that you're now insulting me because I insulted you by calling Trump University. So here's what I'm trying to say. Okay. In order I believe I could be wrong in order for this to be successful. This needs to be divorced, not technically, not developmentally, but but musician and listener wise, has to be divorced even from the word podcast. Yeah, it's not a part of the podcast index. It is under the hood. But it's it's, you know, value for value eyes,
your music already on soundcloud.com? Oh, okay. What do I do? You get this wallet over here. Okay. And now, how do I prove that this is me? And you know, we have to see if they have owner emails. I don't know. I haven't even looked that far. And then good to go. Yes. One last step. Make sure that this is only music tracks, yes, click boom done. You're working. It has to be if we if we roll it in to podcasting, and podcasting
2.0 I think it's a mistake. It doesn't mean that I see these coming together later in my grand scheme, where I can play music on my podcast, and put a portion of that into my value split to pay. The artist is going to come back together. That's the vision I see. Yep, I agree. I've just been sitting and thinking about this on the side as you've been describing. No, I'm sorry. We had a guest. Yes. Oh, Hi, there. I'm sorry. I'm passionate about this.
Oh, no, I love it. It's all good. I mean, this is just a paraphrase. There's two gaps. The first gap is how do you enable any musician to get a musician wallet on any hosting platform that start with SoundCloud, as easy as possible, we have a shim for that we reuse it, but we have to rename it.
And then the second one is, the problem with the apps at the moment is that they're all podcasting focused, it would not be too much additional work to take an existing app that's focused on podcasts and just clone that and rebrand it and then focus it a little bit more on the features you're looking for out of a music app. One of the things and if you do both of those things, then you enable you close both of those gaps. And then that, that inspires more musicians to give it a
shot. And I think that that is necessary for us. We have to solve both problems. Before it will really take off but without the shim, you can't even you they have to, you'd have to say them. You have to host on this platform using these tools. Otherwise, it's the only way to get a wallet. So yeah, absolutely agree. It may go further than that, though, John. And may it may go to the point of I'm not sure that this even is you almost
have to you have to have the app first. Yeah. This this music app has to yes, you're absolutely right. And which is why I say we have you know, Steven B and curio caster, and I think he's working on something but I completely it kind of has to. I mean, let's let's retrace our steps. What was the first app that came online? Well, we had was the first one that came online. Day was it as opposed friend pod friend? I'm thinking with
with all we had we were with value failure with that? Yeah, that was wild. swings, of course, was the first one. Yes, yes. Yes. So we had an existing system, which, well, there's an excellent example of something that should have worked had all the elements, but it was never branded as such. It was, well, this is something else. This is not a podcast later. Yeah. Yeah, it was a
channel. Yeah, exactly. So. So that's why it was hard to make that it had all the right data, you could have rejiggered that thing, and put everything upside down and made it a podcast app. And I think, forget about the issues of how they manage channels and wasn't really set up to do this with micropayments. But you're absolutely right, someone has to really hunker down and get something that is compelling. But also, I mean, I see these, like when HAMP, you know,
they're still developed that thing. Yeah, there's great install base and lots of older software that can just completely come back to life. Does that make sense? I didn't mean to insult you, Dave. I'm sorry. I didn't know he didn't know I did not feel that was just I felt like I had to make it clear that it's weird because where are we going to talk about it here who's going to be working on it? Same people You know, if I'm talking if I'm talking like a Silicon Valley
douche, it's all with this. Well, you're well, within your rights to call me doesn't go into the floor for that. I fully expect, I would think less of you if you did not. I think that the app, this is a big ask because the apps are secure. And he has to write them. Somebody has to write a, a podcast music app. And like, I think you could do it. You could get a head start on it, because there's already open source code. That part of the other side, and this sort of gets back to. To John to
you as well. Is part of the beauty of part of podcasting. 2.0 is a project is that it has spawned so much open source code. So pod verse is completely open source and go. What is the any anytime podcast player is completely open source? That's what is that your dog is mine letter that your dog? Oh, that's, that's my dog. Okay, that's banjo. In the meantime, player is also completely open source is based on flutter. And
so that's what breeze used to pull in. There's a lot of code out there that could be taken and repurposed into a podcasting music app. And I'd say that the choice you'd want to make early on is do you just want to make a kick ass app that understands what to do? Or do you want to also do the onboarding part. And I would personally recommend not to do the onboarding part just yet.
But if I mean, I can't speak on your behalf day, but I think we could certainly fork off the podcaster wallet into something that then also sets the music, the medium flat tag to music, that could be ready to onboard we can test it I mean, you know, we get a SoundCloud account, if we can test it, if it works, then you know, we'll do our job and hopefully someone else will will jump in or find somebody or upgrade an older player. There's gotta be stuff out there that can do this.
Yeah, there's I think so. You know, I'm never gonna we're never gonna write an app or anything like that. It's just not we're not No No, the only thing we're ever gonna do we need we need somebody else to do we're going to do index the stuff and in in ideas and but we need somebody else to do this. Oh, yeah,
definitely. My grand vision and it's really comes into view is if we have that part if we have musicians understanding value for value 2.0 feeds the reason the what we're missing in the music industry today is what the radio industry got for free. Radio doesn't yes, they pay ASCAP BMI blanket license, you know, it's a portion of their revenue. That's all they pay the not to pay artists and not to pay record companies. It's only the Performing Rights Organization. And that's how
music is brought to the forefront. It's it's promoted by people who are either part of like a top 40 format and you're you're you're playing what's what's popular anyway. Or you have your college radio, you know, kind of experimental alternative, these are all things that used to live within our culture, and that with Spotify and, and really with file sharing, that role went away. And that has now been
picked up by two companies. But the main one is tick tock. And all they do is they're in you know, they I think I'm going to, I can't prove it, but I'm pretty sure they make deals to promote certain things over and over again, but you just go ahead and look every single, even you know, like Diana Ross has to
have a tick tock these days, the record companies demand it. So we can bring that back and say, Hey, and we can put these mechanisms to some degree into verifiable stuff like I played, I played your song on my show to anybody who either listens to the whole show, or maybe just that, that segment of time, which I could map to your value block. I mean, these types of things will become really possible and then we can really
promote music again. Music podcasts are non existent for this very for this simple licensing reason, which we I think we'll be able to solve with some of this. I can tell you, I had any experience the other day, we were in a sandwich shop. Me and my family went Monday night to little sandwich shop down the street and ate. And they were playing we were the only ones there. They were playing some music. And I was talking to tell them listen, my wife was like,
you know, oh, this is your jam. You know, this is a band she liked. And then it hit me all the sudden I'm like, Oh man, I hope they're paying their license out their pain and ask because at least two other restaurants around town recently within the past year I've gotten hit hard. You Yeah, for play for playing it over the piece and I'm like, man, what? And it just made me so aggravated like, wow, sucks, man, the state of things sucks. And if, if there was a,
okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make you happy. I'm gonna make you real happy. Sweet. Okay, so instead of looking at your file, oh, I think you meant music. So we will get to a point where people are streaming value for value music in their bar. And people will be able to sit there and go, Hey, I really liked this song. Your phone will be able to identify what song it is. And then you can boost them right away. That Silicon Valley, you said I was went through so
I'm trying to see JaJuan cool. He didn't say cool about your shit. Yeah, of course, because I'm a dreamer would be very, why not? But think of, can we talk about the stats package? We saw that someone showed us, Dave. Talk about that. I get I'm sorry, man. Are we under NDA? Anyway, we saw a value for value statistics package, which showed a timeline and showed how many people know what was listening were dropped off boosts with
booster grams, the whole exactly what you'd want to see. I mean, now just imagine if you shift some of these ideas, and you've got that timeline. And you can see what song was popular because you know, there was more more boost to gram or boost activity during that time is mind boggling what we can do. But we have to bring the music in. And if you think podcasters are tedious, and they don't get shit and try musicians.
Yeah, I can only imagine. But here's here's the thing I still have yet to understand is do any actual human beings work at SoundCloud? Because they probably not. Very few think. I think it may just I think it may just be on autopilot at this point. I think there may be. Yeah, yes. It's AI. It's like two guys. Yeah, it's very possible. And it's a big accounting office. I'll tell you that. It's all accountants, it's all accountants. There's nobody in
tech anymore. And they don't know that they're not there. They just left. And all the accountants think that the data guys are still there. They're just little little simulators on their mouse and keyboards that makes it looks like they're still alive. It's like the you know, wiggle the mouse every now and then. I
think this No, I'm 100%. I'm 100% SoundCloud has evolved from a traditional online streaming platform to an entertainment company with premium offerings, including advanced Audience Insights, playlists, pitching tools, and promotional marketing resources for its users. SoundCloud was the first streaming service to adopt the and implement a user centric payment model for artists called Fan powered royalties. No la fan power fan, five, I found a way to say second, I know I'm bad.
The plot is, but this article does say Did they hope to be profitable in 2023? Yeah, good luck. So they got a Series A was two and a half million euros and then somewhere down here, SoundCloud announced in January 2014. It had commenced licensing negotiations with major music companies to address the matter of unauthorized copyrighted material regularly appearing on the platform. denouncement followed a round of funding in which 60 million was
raised resulting in a $700 million valuation. So they're not so they're not even a unicorn you suckers. Let me see. 2017 SoundCloud announced layoffs went wrong wrong. It had to reach $170 million greement for some bullcrap. Let's see where they are now. 2021 They announced a new pay model. Oh, that is the fan powered royalties. Let me see. I think a couple of months ago they Annette or maybe last month
they announced layoffs. No, no doubt. Well, that's where that's when the rest of that team people. Canadian electronic music producer Vincent earnings jumped to $600 a month up from 120 a month under the pooled revenue model. Hey, that's a rip off that whole thing sucks. You can do better with value for value than 120 bucks a month. Oh yeah. Oh my goodness. For sure. And and they they've I mean, we don't have to worry about anything everything else it's
all set. So I think we just figured out how to entice people. You know what, once it's up and running, we go into those wiki pedia and we just edit this wiki pedia trust me it works. Put in there and podcasting 2.0 music the wood. So John, I can imagine sound biter. Yeah, for for me for music. I mean, like, you know, that whole idea where you take, you've got your catalogue, there you go. And you'd let your
fans create sound bites and give them splits. There you go for for snippets of music that you can use for discovery. Hardly, yeah, why not? Why don't we solved all problems with the world? Gentleman, this is great. It's so proud.
I just, I just want to add one more thing, Adam to the idea of, of making sure it's a music focused app, because I was thinking as you're talking about what, and I don't want to hold apple up necessarily as the this is what we should all do kind of thing, but cast your mind back to when everything was in iTunes. And if you wanted to do music, podcasts, you know, file transfers, absolutely. Everything was in iTunes. And then they split it out to a music app and a podcast app and
an end and they separated them all out. And the research suggested that people when they want to go and do something, they want to go to the app that is specifically tailored for gas, because listening to music is subtly different from listening to an audio book, which is slightly different from a podcast, like I was thinking speed skipping, for example, you don't want to do that. And in music, that's a function that
doesn't make any sense. Right, you know, is a pig's eye absolutely needs to be tailored?
And actually, oh, no, totally. And, you know, there's things that need to be worked on such as, you know, chapters, that's now of course, covers, and it can be include lyrics, captions, or transcripts, you know, we need to I don't know how the services do with getting lyrics, but you need to be able to simply throw your lyrics in somewhere and synchronize it with with the song I mean, there's all kinds of stuff that can be worked on. But everything is there, the namespace once we
the medium tag is what really did it as genius. That is, that is the thing, and we've got all the infrastructure set up everything is good to go. And man, can we have a lot of fun once we figure this out?
Will you take this Alex Alex for solve this problem? Yes, a long time ago, and yes, it and solve this with for no agenda tube, and saw that this was also going to be a music issue, because we can, you know, two years from now or a year from now, or whenever this happens, we can say the we can just take this exact discussion and rehash it for audiobooks. And just do
like, because it's going to be the same thing. Yep. It's going to be you know, audio, movies, documentaries, books, you know, we'll we'll need PDF readers, e readers, whatever, totally, it works. Well. Now, when I'm not when I'm unsure of is how the Ask will work in music. You know how you reward people, but I think that's where we can. That's where groovy little widgets like leaderboards and super fan posters, and that's where it boosted grams, making
them public may make sense. I mean, there's all kinds of stuff has to be experimented with is there's no there's no right or wrong way to do it. Because if you're not getting any SATs, you're doing it the wrong way that I do now. Well, so play, play buzz cast, clip one. I think when people are voting with their wallets, we can see different types of
shows come up to the top. Because all you really need is a small audience that really loves your content, rather than a really large audience that is just like, hey, being informed about the news is worth 20 minutes of my day, one of the things I always keep coming back to is if we want to avoid some of the negative things that happened with the rest of the internet, like because everything was sucked into, like the monetization strategy for everything was ads. YouTube is
ads, news is ads. Everything that we do is ads. Were trying to keep us on platform all the time and give up tons of attention. So they can sell little pieces of it to an advertiser. And we've just seen so many ways that that goes wrong. But if we want a different world, we have to pay for a different world. And we actually have to vote for that different world. I know my three favorite podcasts I pay for him.
Okay. Yeah, that that's, I think that applies as well. Sure to music, because we're going to you know, the idea here, actually, we can go well, it can if I can if I can just say one thing. Yeah, sure. What I love about the music idea is that I know in my heart, I will set a rate that makes the three minute song worthwhile for the person who gave it to me. Yep, that's exactly where that's
that's where it gets beautiful. I mean, I stream typically 200 sets a minute to any podcast I've listened to, and which I think is a good number. But if I'm if that's my time, like Yeah, I'm this I'm listening to this and it adds up at the end. You listen to an hour what is that? To what is that tuner sets a minute to under time? 60? This year the engineer will we have an engineer in the boardroom? So
yeah, what can you do the math for us there? You should add up all the zeros and calculate an account. Is it 12,000 12,000 SATs? Am I saying it right? 20,000 rent? was 120,000 for an hour test, would you say 200 times 60? That's 12,000. I got my calculator 100. That was 82. So how much is that in in fee and Fiat fun coupons to have that as about as two bucks delivered dollars dollar? buck and a half?
I think I need to update a bit. But I read for music, like all day long, you know, it's like and some and some I would even want to set it hey, if if something comes through on a playlist, and it's from this artist or this band, automatic up the SATs. Okay, that's that's the part that we don't get yet. Because I'm not trying to say that. But what I mean is, like, there's going to be experiences of ways to pay and ways to do these things that we can't envision, of course, and so we're taught.
So you know, you brought up what about the pitch and how the VC they're very different from music, very different, very different, very different. And but but it will evolve, it'll happen. And here's where the where the lit comes in. You know, some it will be appropriate for some artists or bands or some performers to use the lit tag to go live to maybe use that as fundraising or use that as a weekly here's what I'm doing or progress report or whatever. With you know, with with live
booster grams. I mean, this is it's a lifestyle. It's the new international lifestyle of value for value, and we're living it and everyone's gonna start to realize it's, it's a pretty good way to do it. Because you can't be Jay Z and Beyonce anymore. You can't be Joe Rogan. You can't be Megan Markel. But you don't need to be. You don't need to be number one, the charts are ridiculous that it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter? And if and if, and if you're able to get 1000 people who will only
use this one particular app, then you're golden. You know what I mean? It's like, do you need to be able to survive? I think I told you right away, Dave, this is gonna be a lot of fun. Some of the best work we ever done, we're not gonna make any money off this, we certainly won't be millionaires, let alone billionaires. If anyone has a billion out of this, then we did something very wrong. That's the whole point is value for value. Yeah. Yes, I think the I think the streaming per minute thing.
That's really, we get caught up in the booths. And they're, they're fun. But I think the streaming per minute thing is really where the rubber meets the road for some of these other things like maybe audiobooks or music. In podcasting, it works because there's a quick, there's a real fast feedback loop. Yeah, it especially if you have like a weekly show or something like that. But but on music, the per minute, and that's going to be a
lot of meat there. Because you can really set you can say, Okay, I'm going to budget this much actually play buzz cast, clip three, clips, three, but the value for value model gives you the option to either stream SATs while you're listening, like so many per minute, or you can just boost and so that is every month, you could just deposit like $20 into your podcast or wallet, and then you could boost it out as you're listening to episodes. When
you're out of money. You're out of money for the month, like I'm not gonna refill this wallet Until next month, I'm gonna discipline podcasters who was speaking? That was Kevin, Kevin. Kevin, I want to kiss you on the lips, man. That that per minute, that's a great. It's just it's, it's not very, it's not very talked about, I guess it's the per minute side of podcasting. Because the booths take the take
the limelight, that per minute side on a music app. If I were to be like, Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to take that 10 bucks
a month that I spend on Spotify or 15 or whatever. And I'm going to put $15 You know, not too into the podcast music side of things and it's just always streaming in every if, you know if everybody if that becomes the lifestyle, then that's real money, but I also absolutely, and I also see, you know, like Merkle tree type stuff where if I if I turn someone on to a band, I can get some reward for that. I mean, I know we can go deep on
this stuff. I know it it's what it's actually probably what they wanted pink to be number apples, social network ping mean, I think these these things are possible. I just get really jazzed by the idea and there's so much this. You think there was pent up energy for podcasting, waiting to see With the musicians are ready to do, and they understand kind of being, you know, they understand asking for sure. But then once we have that flying man, we can integrate it and I look out.
Look, what's what's your John, what is your split with him when it comes to like this versus straight streaming says I'm imagining that your streaming is probably higher. But that's just a guess. No actually I tend to do I tend to do it the other way around, I tend to do a lower average streaming, but then I boost when at Well, I used to boost at strategic moments versus a you
know, like, oh, yeah, that's awesome. And I didn't generally send booster grams, because when you're in the moment, you just want to boost you don't want to sit there and compose something. And but I was actually talking about your income, like your pocket? Where I'm sorry, I always lose when I'm in the moment too. Anyway, okay, so sorry, the other way around it you have stats on this? I'm not in front of me. No, I have held up and I
should probably download a CSV and have a look for you. But I tend to get so I will get regular boosts oddly every week? I'm not sure. Anyway. So but I do get this background streaming. And the thing is, you can tell whichever comes from based on how it's grouped together, because different apps will give you a different because they don't all stream at exactly the same per minute they'll bundle it up and then send it in one hit in a transaction. So like batching
Yes, batch it. Yes. Well, the answer the question the having an umbrella at home and watching value for value come in and then realizing that you're getting more Satoshis per month and from your two s nine mining machines says a lot. Yeah, says a lot. That'd be cool. It's true. Yeah, shall we thank a few people because we're just rambling on here and they want to read some Yeah, I'd like to read some of these that came in some of the some of the booster grams from our lips. We
got everyone there in the in the in the chat room. Okay, okay. My goodness is a lot that came in 100,100 Satoshis from chyron. Mere Mortals podcast. I've been blessed a special number episode and at a time I can join I was actually explaining P two o at a crypto meetup recently and people really got it when I related how splits could be used for musicians and app to show them at the same time would be amazing. Nice. That's right. There's Mary Oscar blowing 100 at us. 17,776 from blueberry.
hella hella boosts CLI pilled. Man. Okay, that is from the boost CLI. Billy Bones comes in was 233 threes and he says thank you all for creating podcasts and 2.0 You need to thank everybody including you ability bones, D Dubs. 1010. Boost CLI supports nano vi Max emacs or whatever you have set as default. Yes, I will have to try the boost CLI with Emacs. source D vim for life. Okay, now we're getting into the jihad. Eric p p
at 100,100 SATs happy 100 show thank you very much. Pay tar 123456 1 million Satoshis. Oh 20 is Blaze on am Paula happy 100 Go podcast. Wow. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you see Brooklyn 3333. Then we have Mike Newman. And Mike comes in with 133,333. He says I hear John Chinggis in the lobby. He was yeah he I think he knocked over a trash can or something people got his causality show is great. And it makes sense he guest on
episode 100 Great use of 2.0 Cheers, John. One of my goals is to implement as many tags as I can in my little jalopy of a podcast that Mike Newman show. That's Mike Newman Dutch knife Mike Newman dot show. Mi ke n e u m a n n dot show I've enjoyed testing all sorts of tech this year alone and meeting so many of the PC two Oh crew in Dallas last week. This was great St. Joseph Gracie and Mike in the in Dallas. That's always what a conference is great for. This thing is just
getting started. Thanks to y'all. I like this ship says Mike. Blueberries mic 100,000 Satoshis air horn air horn air horn one of the first things I asked myself beginning 2020 was what the hell is RSS feed? It's well you now know okay, it's doomed. It's been a sick ride. Thank you both and everyone for the deep well of knowledge pew pew MoPhO Oh there we go pew pew mofos and then he has a oh he hasn't URL here with an mp3 file. Yeah Lord yeah well I mean we might as well do it this way Come on.
course I'll do it what was the oh here it was hold on does that name Jennifer hola que think that was dead Jennifer. Okay that was highly inappropriate blueberry thanks 1000 from Chad F Steven B 222,220. Shot Caller 20 is blades on am Paula Steven B from Kira caster says Happy second birthday. Thank you. Thank you brother. 1000 SATs again from blueberry. See dubs it's 2133 a boob from source D Yeah 808 We got you. Then we I think we did this one. Sup? Sup? Yo, sup? Yes. Time for the
champion the 305 that is 100,001 SATs. We have our podcast listening live during my mic during my kids taekwondo practice on pod verse 8675 SATs thank you for the upcoming hackathon. I'd be eager to lend my data science visualization, visualization skills. Congratulations, Episode 100. And my son Darren says go podcast podcast a Dodge defeat dodge the feet in the hands. Yeah, then of course we got the 1,001,001 SATs from Dred Scott another 33,333 from Carolyn lyceum. 100,100 Congrats to your
milestone 100 episodes. I am all for the boost drive. That's That's what they call it. They call it the boost drive. They were driving the boost like a cattle drive of boosts playing up into our into our ranch. We had nothing to do with this. It was no no this is of course not. This is why it works. So well. We had another we had nothing to do with it. Thanks for your work and for introducing me to the value for value model. Thanks for participating in it. Best
premises. Oh, this is Martin Linda's code. There you go former second place fountain leaderboard for baller boost with rands date number of 221,905 Satoshis Yeah, we'll try again this month game on go podcast. And then there's another Mike Newman 100,033 sets cast dramatic boost rolling the dice to see if it gets through go podcasting? Sure did. He sent another one another one from CAST ematic one from fountain
also 100,033 90. And there he is with 300,033 SATs Hello, Mike Newman simply stated, The goal here is to boost you all a million SATs in a few days. Now less than an hour. This is about two hours ago, before the 100th episode completely abusing channels near and far using as many apps and services as I can to demonstrate it at a small but essential part of what y'all have accomplished here since episode one. Ah mazing thank you for preserving, protecting and extending podcasting for years
to come. Mike, thank you, man. That is so kind. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. I think I got just about everybody there in the in the the lit boost the club. Thank you all so much. That is this is that's incredible. I mean, normally having, what DeVore Eken I would do is we pick numbers. Right? So what do you have a number? Well, because people showed us the way hey, it's Pi Day 314. Hey, it's it's April 23 420. Hey, is your birthday 58? We don't have to
think this. This came organically and that's that means it's really working. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of humbling. And it also just means that people love us. Yeah, yeah. Everyone loves you guys. You know, I feel like I really do feel love. Very much. So the, you know what, I wonder? I wonder about, you know, the different ways of different ways of connecting, like we were talking earlier, about, you know, music has sort of it gets
its own thing, and it needs its own app. And then something came up this week on podcasts index is social, about being able to, like present a request to the user, so that when they follow the pot, like I think the way it was explained is if if somebody follows a podcast, and that podcaster also has something like a newsletter, there could be some sort of tag or something in there that would say, in the feed that would say, Okay, I also offer this newsletter, and then the app could could show
that to the, to the listener, where they could say where they could subscribe to the newsletter, like right in the app. sure that that sounds like something useful. Yeah, I think they, you know, David Norman from hypercare explored some of this in the hyper Capture App. Very early on. Yeah. He remembered this marriage between podcasting and newsletters. And I wonder, how will that we could codify that. Here's here's the here's the only issue. What? Maybe not,
it's just newsletters. I love newsletters, but man, that pretty much the only thing I would even touch these days would be substack. Everything else seems tainted crap and no good. And I'm sure problems will come everywhere. It's just you know, there's just we don't really have I'm not familiar with all the external resources for news newsletters. I don't know it's your I don't know, either. I said
it's it sucks. So bad, the way things don't arrive or filtered away or put into promotions tabs, and it's just, it's a real nightmare to manage. And everybody wants to own your inbox. You don't use letters or anything that you don't actually do. But my newsletters, yeah, yeah, I bought it as a bi created a year special RSS feed that combined podcast episodes,
as well as blog posts on the engineering network. So if there's anything that's new, that's happened in the last week, it automatically sends out to a mailing list using MailChimp. But some people do actually subscribe to it. And when I heard when I was watched, because I followed that exact thread that you're talking about. And it's to me, it's like, well, how deep do you want to go? How tight you want to
make that integration? Yeah, because like, right now, we have I think funding and the funding when you when you tap on that, and most apps, it'll just take you to the website. And it's like, oh, here's how you can support like a shortcut to that.
As opposed, you know, we could just do the same thing with the newsletter, because the only way people know I've got a newsletter is to go to the website, I don't even pimp it on the shows because, well, that's my bad, I probably should that, you know, irrespective, it's like they gotta go to the site, have a look newsletter, oh, look, I can sign up for newsletter. So how many people are going to take time out to do
that? And this shortcut might make a difference, but it doesn't have to be baked completely into the app, you can jump out just like we do. Why not? I would personally I would rather focus our effort and energy on implementing XMPP with a bridge to IRC to get chat working or something like that. Yeah, that that needs that needs to be probably next up on the list. There's, there's always, you know, what makes things complicated is there's always sort of two, two things going
on. There's one that's code heavy and one that spec heavy, right and in in an just and technical. And then there's and then there's, like, evangelism that's going on? Yeah. So there's, there's like the the music stuff. That's, that's really more evangelism than code. Yeah. And, you know, the XMPP stuff and the chat stuff that that really is more more code than anything else. I do like so. So John, you don't have any live, you don't do anything live right?
Now, not anymore. Back in 90, more mid 2014 in with pragmatic, actually had five or six episodes live, streaming them using icecast. Put sort of, like, stitched a bit together using liquid soap. And I used to update the website with a live flag that scrape the status, x x s l file from icecast. And I had a chat room in IRC, you know, much like, like ATP, do it. The relay guys, you know, five by five, and a lot of them do that. So it's like, it's a thing I used to do. But I got, oddly
more complaints than I got compliments. It because people would say, Oh, why can't you do it at this time? I can't possibly make it at that time sort of thing. And when I had, like, probably two thirds of my audience in the United States, I, I would I tried a few getting up at ridiculous hours of the of the morning to try and suit and satisfy the North American audience. And even then, people would then complain from Europe and say, Oh, well, you know, that's a really big time. And
I'm like, Oh, my God. Okay, so the joy of live is that there are many time zones, and we live in a ball. And so yeah, more people were annoyed that I couldn't do it at their preferred time and the audience level and feedback and engagement just wasn't there. So I stopped doing it. And no one seemed to care that I stopped. So that's well, okay, so you did so you did an ice cast server. This is
what I'm trying to get some just want to try to get at. So there's, there's a couple of breakthroughs that need to happen here. There's there's the ability for people to do live streams. And when I say people, I mean, I mean hosts hosting companies, hosting companies need need a way forward for live streams. And we talked about it a lot in Dallas last week. with people and just trying to brainstorm things. My, my idea
is maybe wacky or too much. My idea was you, you know, if your hosting company you spin up, you spin up a and n A icecast server in a Docker container or something whenever you need it, dynamically assign it a DNS, DNS name. And then for the life of that live broadcast, that thing is running, and then you spin it, and then you just destroy it when it's finished, like a dashboard on voltage. Exactly the same. Exactly. I like that.
Now, there may be much better ways to do it. And this is why I bring it up, because I want to hear where I'm going overkill on this. But I mean, I could see that. If you had like, I don't know, if you're, if you're a large host, and you had like 10 of these things running, they're probably not costing, if they're sitting there doing nothing, they're probably not costing you anything, it's just a container. Especially if you're a
Kubernetes or something like that. I mean, it wouldn't probably, it's meant the cost is minimal until you start the bandwidth going. And then I was thinking of it just like it like an Apache server, you know, like you have a minimum spares that are running, and then you just spin up a few more whenever somebody whenever those begin to get used, and you kill them. I
don't know, I'm trying to think of a way. But so then on the backside, let's let's say that you have that model, then on the back side, you got to have a way for the podcaster to connect, and take and start sending to the stream. And so then there would have to be some sort of, you know, you display back to them. The, the connection string or the the URL that they need to
connect to? Is, is that how you do it currently, Adam, when you take over the stream, do you just connect to a endpoint and go? Yeah, so I have the luxury that the no agenda stream is up 24/7 It's ice cast server. I have God power. So the minute I hit Connect is like whoever's there is just sad. Because I want to look like I mean, like what is the connect to and when you say connect,
I'm sorry, I use radio caster small app. And all you do is just have the you have the one endpoint, you got a password, you fill that in, you put your bid rate, you do all that once, and then from then on out, it's just click, you're on click, you're off. But it is it is a separate app that I use. Okay, and that just hooks into your rig is that, yeah, it just hooks into the output of my, I mean, anyone who streams kind of knows this stuff.
And I'm thinking about people who don't stream who are not used to it, like how we need to kill them, they just need to kill them. If you don't stream you don't dream, okay, get out of get on my face, as if like it would be it'd be nice to have some sort of guide, or something that said, Here's in clear, clearly, the hosting company would would want to do this, you know if they're going
to support this feature. But for those who want to get their feet wet with it earlier than waiting for host implementation, it would be nice to have some sort of concise guide that could say, Okay, here's, here's how you could go live. But you know, quickly or whatever. For fun, even though it's so specialized, I don't think there's a lot of podcasts that go live with audio only, there's just not a lot what most people will be very comfortable with
his stream yard or OBS. And connecting that to some, you know, everyone kind of knows, oh, I need this kind of data, I put it in here and send it, it would be easier to use something like that and just take the audio that way. Also, if it's multiple people, they can still use the video to communicate with each other. I think the tools are out there. I think they're usable. But I don't know if if this is something the hosting company should solve. I'm not sure that the lit tag is
a big deal for everybody. I think it's a huge deal for a very small subsection who will be able to use it effectively. That I think and I think those are valuable content creators who know how to use it and will use it but I just don't see it as a big mainstream thing. But it's important I want it it will I'm just thinking you know, brought up the chat in the chat really is only it's kind of only the last not only live knows it could be the things
I mean it The room is open. You know, people are in there all the time to like, an IRC chat. I mean the troll room.io Where no agenda stream.com is open all the time that said the community lives there of trolls, but they do live there under bridges and stinky garbage heaps. I guess. I mean, I would love XMPP. That that seems like the way to go for for a built in chat. In in the app. It's more you know, it's seem a lot easier to get going the comments
here. Yeah. And because it's because it's because it's synchronous. Yes. And we and we are and of course I didn't come up with this myself. I got this from Alex gates. He said, XMPP were the bridge to IRC. I said, I heard chef, I'm on it. Okay, can you put that in? Like, is that something that can be hooked to the no agenda? Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The x Oh, yeah. IRC and XMPP. worked very well together. Okay. Yeah, I think there's all kinds of existing stuff.
I feel like I did a lot of XMPP programming years ago. I know nothing about IRC. I feel like I just don't know anything about the way it worked. Well, luckily, we have some very skilled people in our group. Yeah, there's people doing I mean, when when you're at the bot level, I'm sure you can help us with XMPP bridge to IRC. That would be great. I would love to build some sandboxes and
stuff around that to try to just try it out. You know, because I still have I still got MK Ultra this sitting there that needs. There's another thing you know, we just need to shut everything down. Just you just got to work through your list. Yeah. Yeah, you said yeah. Let's take some more people. Dave. We're running on a buck 45 here so let's Yeah, all right. Let's see we got we got some
I don't mind doing the show late for our guests in Australia. But you know, just because we ruin his breakfast doesn't mean he gets to ruin our dinner you got time, John, you can hang out with us some more. I am making time for you guys. Oh, good. Keep rolling. You know, also you have an amazing set of pipes. Oh, well, thank you for Yeah, you really really sound good. You know, because Australians can have a certain I'm just saying it's like you
have all kinds of opinions about American accents. But yours with the voice it just it has something really comfortable. It's really nice to listen to. Thank you. Thanks Adam actually means a lot coming in from you especially Thank you You're welcome. I mean it we guess that fountain on screen Nick of their fountain is $200 Whoa I think we get the ball them Bala shot Carla 20 blades on am Paula it's It's everybody's just so generous today.
We get Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you. Oscar and I've got a bug I need to squash for Oscar and nationally not squash. I've got to introduce this to gay. I get it No, no. No, investigate. Let's see. Steven, Steven crater, send us $100 And he says for episode 100. Thank you so much, Steven. Steven. I really appreciate you man. I really do. He, he is one of those people that jumps in there and just does things that need doing. Like, you know, he's a person that just sees that.
This something needs like something needs to be done like, like this bucket of you know, mop water needs to be refilled or the sort of the dirty jobs that are just like time consuming. He jumps in there and doesn't. And I really appreciate that. So more than more than I can you give us an example. So so we all know what mentation Yeah, that's number one. When I put when, when I roll up a new endpoint or something, he documents it. And when he goes in there to document it if he sees bugs, or
misspellings or something. He's like, Hey, this is messed up. And I go fix it. Or somebody says, hey, what's the GU ID for my podcast? And he jumps in there posted before? Before I do. I'm like cool. It's just it just takes you just take stuff off my plate all the time and I'm so appreciative of it one time for the one time. Fire $558 from Prem Lee barber Barbosa Prem Lee Barbosa $50 No note, thank you very much. Thank you. primly, we get some histograms.
We get oh by the way, I would like now I would like to say to James Cridland, you've begged for it enough times I've put the big baller jingle into our show notes for today's episode so someone can go put that into the repository. I just want you to know it wasn't necessarily an open source thing. It was originated in the MO facts with Adam curry podcast. Then slowly stolen slash adopted by the no agenda podcast, then it moves to podcast 2.0 And now we set it free.
It's now it's been released. It's been released released into the wilds back to the elements from which it came. We have a good ISO as speaking of James Kirtland, and if you want to drop that one in there, please come and talk to us please. Wow, that's genius. That is not just an ISO that's and a show ISO baby. That reached the top of the mountain. The pinnacle has been achieved. Chad Pharaoh 3333 No notes. Thank you. Let's see Auburn citadel. 49 490 Boost me JC destock
you got it boost boost boost. Yay. 8888 from Chris last as Chris from Jupiter broadcasting says thanks for going to Podcast Movement, so we don't have to dodge the bullet. Although it was really nice hanging out with everybody. That was the main thing. And once we'd hung out with everybody, it was time to leave. This is very tailored. Regarding your live chat discussion we do most most of our shows live and based on listener demand, we're moving
our live chat to matrix. So far, it's working out great. IRC can be bridged into matrix in many cases might be possible to have the best of both worlds. can we bridge XMPP to IRC back to matrix hey now can and should use your free dance. Yes, I guess the only thing that I'm bought that concerns me about matrix is I've heard that the back end is very heavy. And I would like to hear input on the
hell was going on? We're going to have a standoff because the Alex gauge the official podcasting 2.0 consultant, not to be confused with a value for value coach, the 2.0 consultant, he's pushing very heavily for XMPP. And I believe Roy over a breeze would be pushing very hard for matrix. So if we could make those two meet somewhere in the middle and connect them that's all good. That the middle that would be like middle of the Atlantic. Yes, somewhere.
I'm not quite sure how we have these types. Maybe there's no conflict at all. Maybe it all fits perfectly together. Okay, you guys meet in Greenland and fight and whoever wins, right? That's right. See 717 73 sets from Mike Dell says Dallas moves from room 1773 Well, three, go ahead. No, go ahead. Go keep on Yeah. 12 345 from hard 12345 from hard hat. No note. Thank you. Very nice. Booze. Roy scheinfeld No, there. There he is. He's for episode 99. Excuse me. This is a
this was a mess up on my part. I did. He boosted last week and this week and I missed both of them. And then I figured out this afternoon that it was and because I message you and I was like I can't find Roy's boost is driving me nuts is concerning. And yes, we were we were we were combing how sad or we were combing through heli pad and through I was looking at CSVs like I got no wikis in here somewhere. Show yourself Roy show yourself. He's a bit he had boosted two
booths two weeks in a row with no note. And I had filled my script was filtering. Oh no, no, it's Yeah, reading on the show that's the epitome of lazy is given a big boost and I'm you know I'm gonna give 54,003 and 20 on SAS but you know, I mean my silk robe I got my floppy slippers on. It's so tiring to type a note. I said I message him I said so good. All good. I found him. Here's, you know, here's the bug. And fixed. We're all we're
all good. It's like do you say Roy do you send your would you send your wife a card with just just a card with no writing on it? I feel I feel our relationship was better than that. It's a box of chocolates. It's just wrappers and no extra chocolate so He essentially debugged my code from like, what 3000 miles away, which was Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Yes, that's good. Next time, I'm just gonna print all the code out and mail it to, to to John and Roy and have them decode it from their respective
locations. Okay. What one let us see 1111, George Orwell and Orwell Nietzsche says boost yo, yo, thanks George Jordan rose big supporter, big channel opener to everybody appreciate it. Big row sticks 11 111 from mere mortals podcast. He says I think the best I think the biggest problem with the for V, is it it takes a while to get going. In the latest V for V podcast episode, I talked about how pod land required a while until new
people joined in on the boosting. But I think the rush of the highest impact dopamine jacking, heart racing extravaganza of a message with monetary value attached is worth it. Die can concur. I completely agree. Absolutely. RDK 519 Send us 1010 SATs and he says Adam and Dave, thanks for all you're doing with podcasting 2.0 Our shows aren't yet in the 2.0 universe, but we're working to get them there as quickly as possible. Keep up the good work. Rob Kirkpatrick Thank you, Rob. Look forward to
Jean Everett's in his 1001 SAS he says cheers. Cheers to you. Cheers back at you. Uh, Chris, you know, send us 3570 SATs and no note. Sir Doug sent us 10,000 SATs and he says value for value boost the yo yo, love that. Is the Amit Sharma dog I miss I'm missing the TOS. Where's the ducks today? I don't know. See? I feel so you know, I haven't heard any ducks. Little concerned about the dogs. All right. What's your dog? Okay.
He is I had to mute myself and yell at him. Oh, I don't know if it's gonna help or not wasn't buying any dogs was he? He's he sees the chickens outside and he really wants chicken tonight. Like right now pronto. Yeah, immediately. Chicken 1234 from SLC. I can't I can't view boosts only this show no problems on na. Oh, yes. We have comments this in Fountain we requested no comment boosts our podcast. So I could have an A B and then not
the show. But next show. Um, this also was part of Tanner's problem, the comments do present opportunities and they present issues. But that's for another show. So Pete 21,500 says To cast a magic is this the talk about making features appealing or making them better? Better known on its own is kind of weird. I think the total experience of listening to a podcast is key. When podcasters say in their podcast, quote, check out the image in your app to see what I
mean. Or skip to the next chapter to get the results. Yeah, those two calls will pull people to both use and ask for the new features. You might also awaken the call for so for support of new features. Completely agree completely agree. Good one. That's the that's the other part that I'd written in my notes earlier is that part of the value is the podcaster has to use his or her voice in the podcast to talk to the listener that you have to you your podcast the content of your
podcast is the way that you do it. It's you don't it's not you don't just flip a switch. It's not technology. All the technology in the world can be there. But if you don't if you don't engage your audience in that way that it doesn't is useless. Sir Shona, the Allegheny Valley, aka Sean McCune 50,000 SATs he says boosting while listening to the last episodes boosts Oh nice. Thank you. Nice boost boost boost boost the boost boost. Timmy tweet 23 8315 1000s As he says just updated my years old
d&d tabletop gaming podcast to 2.0. Hoping we won't offend our long term, our longtime Patreon subscribers by moving to value for value for anyone interested in longtime friends playing tabletop RPGs. Reviewing project products and not being serious about it. Check out GG no ri that's GG space in O space R E. Go podcasting. Yo Cool. See 11 111 from Martin from pod friend. Hey Martin How you doing?
He says 100th Episode Wow feels like just yesterday since I wrote to Adam about accessing the index and then creating that first early open source app implementation. I've been quiet for a while but I'm having so much fun right now working on pot friend two ah which is going to be better than ever. It's coming to theaters this summer. Happy episode aversary and rock own nice boost. Pod friend too.
I'm excited I'm excited pod friend to it's like the iPhone 14 Martin back again 100,000 SATs and he's Oh again because 100 Yes, just Blaze on am Paula. So happy he's still on our orbit. Straight up. Yeah, it can't wait to see pocket pod friend 2.0 I didn't know he was working on that he's been keeping it download pod friend and 2.0 it's your friend. No bigger than ever. These laughs since 838 SATs and he says show was lit. Yeah. laughs sin is 25,000 SATs he says go podcasting. Nice.
I'm so humbled by these numbers. This is so great. It's incredible. Steve, that was Steve in Bradenton, Florida. slewed send a 1611 SATs and he says 1611 equals King James boost go podcasting? I'm not quite sure what to play. I don't have a King James thing but don't just stand there. Oh go podcast. Let's just pretend that was kJ. Yeah, it sounded just like him. Meet us. Send us 2222 through fountain and he says the boost below nice. The boost below me says indirect. This is like an
Excel column Excel formula indirect. open parenthesis address open parenthesis row parenthesis plus one column parenthesis. And you have solved our secret puzzle. Congratulations for boosting us in the row. What was that? No idea. Okay. Steven B sends 100,000 SATs. Oh man at the 100th episode. Thank you so much. Brother. Bissau used screenshots of curio, curio caster in my preferences Tasha on Yes. Dame Jennifer sent us 100,000 Sask cue up. Jingle
congrats. One 100 For this Oh, that'll surprise here. Happy episode aka board meeting 100 que that obnoxious air horn. Please come and talk to us. Ready for her? That was the obnoxious air horn was James. I don't know how that happened. Muscle memory. Long COVID All right. So we hit the congrats jingle here. Yeah, hit it. Hey, guys. Congratulations on episode 100. You've managed to build an incredible team who are all doing amazing things. I'm
looking forward to what we'll see in the hackathon. I'll be at the craft services table eating cake and drinking Prosecco out of plastic cups of course. See there are boost people boost boost boost. Dave Jennifer best she she's a big part of it. Man. You're a big part of it. Dame Jennifer. She says she wanted it to sound like those obnoxious celebrities, you know, congratulating each other. It's hard for her to pull it off entirely because she's just so nice.
Yeah, there's no underlying note. Yes, back there. No, no, not a hint of douchebaggery no smugness no jealousy. It's just pure open honest and we'd love your name Jennifer. We really do everybody does your fantastic. You should be making a million Satoshis a day being a value for value consultant. Oh, that's a good idea. Oh, look at both look at boosted this it was John Chingy no way you're 61 says no, no. No that guy. Hey, John, do you need to before I forget you need to immediately email me
your your node ID so I can put you in our splits. Notice how we put him in the split after all the million million set booths come in? Yeah, we're not totally stupid. Boy. We and guess what? We didn't have a guest last week. Oh, so no split goes to that. That's true, because that does mean that you stay with us until the next guest is on to kind of happy birthday to us. Yes. Hi, Dave and Adam and listeners podcast 2.0. Brian of London's in Python example code with attitude.
Hopefully that helped me make this VISTA grande possible. It feels like Have some kind of hive mind and dig it. Anyway, I encourage anyone that isn't already listening to causality to visit engineer dot network as we analyze what went wrong, or excuse me what went right and what went wrong and we discover that many outcomes can be predicted, planned for and even prevented and you too can decide if the listener that called me a dreamy narrator was right or not. Nice. Thank you. Yes.
Hard Hat 100,000 SATs boost, boost. Boost. Thank you hard hat. There's just so many of these is nuts. Mac. Macintosh is in its 10,000 SATs and he says Happy 100th Episode What an accomplishment. I'm looking forward to the next 100 episodes and the next dozen or more podcasts and 2.0 features go podcasting your podcast. I am to Macintosh. We're just getting the last slide of the presentation was we're just getting started. And that's that is it feels like that's 100%
True. Yep. Jason unit sent us 103,099 sets through pod verse and he says please defragment me, Adam. Oh, yes. Love to do that. And we'll throw in a boost. Thanks. I'm glad people are asking for that. He says Adam, if I boost more than $333 with a Bitcoin to the no agenda show. Well, I get credited as an executive producer. No, don't do it. Don't do it. Do it now. It's just an ongoing conversation I'm having with my partner so don't do it. Don't Ask Don't Don't rock the boat.
Brian of London in the high Dao 49,524 SATs do the V for V out. Thank you, Brian. I'm not he's okay. Thanks. Thanks for Thanks. in advance for this Brian. He says I'm not a pheasant plucker I'm a pheasant pluckers made I'm only plucking pheasants because the pheasant plucker is late. Usually, Ryan, thanks a lot. By the way. I did want to say that, you know, the booths that come to no agenda go of course, the clip
custodian and they go to to Dred Scott. And I think we're far enough along the road and I think we have enough 2.0 value for value podcasters who are also do album art. If you put your your Alby address or your node ID in the information where your your images if, if, if we choose you, I'm going to put you in the value split of the no agenda feed. Does that make any
sense? Yeah, that's cool, because everyone I could just go sign up and get an Alby right now being you just said here's my details and then all I have to do is plug it in was let's get these artists some stuff and some sets if anybody wants to do show art for this for our show do for a second thing oh yeah, great idea. Well, we'll give you a split yeah absolutely. Def a sound bites to Oh yes. Easy for you to spend our money gently. Down man.
10,101 says and he says IRC plus plus okay, we gotta vote for is this is gonna be a grudge match. No, I'm sorry. I protocol grudge match, a grudge match. Let's see. 333,333 SATs from crimson deer. Show shot caller 20 years blades on am Paula. Third time's a charm. All the threes. Thank you, Adam and Dave and the whole podcasting. 2.0 team. Mike Newman. Oh, that's Mike again. Matt and Mike you're out of control. He has a he reached a million. No doubt. Did he? Yeah, probably more than a million.
Holy cow. Oh man. Thank you, Mike. And bombshell, sir Speth sir Spencer 100,000 SATs through curio caster and he says Happy 100th episode thanks for all you have done for Valve favor value podcasting, decentralization and protecting freedom of expression in the podcasting environment. He restored our passion for bowl after bowl and helped us improve our value proposition in our show over these past almost two years. We are ever grateful sir Spencer and Dame DeLorean de la.com. Thank you guys
so nice. Really appreciate the support. Let's see we got Chad Ferro. 100,000 SATs 100k for show 100 Boo. Nice 100 Fire Fire Fire one time for the one time. Jeff arrow dropped 3333 and another 100,000 says 100k for the Washington You guys are crazy. It's just so cool. And did you read sourced? So congrats on episode 100? Yes, I think I did the 100k if not hundreds just to recognize it there you go. Yeah as you pipe pipe CD. All right. Thank you source let's
see God's out one Macintosh and is for 1000 Set boosts. And he says listen to Thursday's listened to Thursday episode and note oh no agenda about died laughing at the old man boost. Give me an old man boost and again congratulations on 100 episodes boost boost boost. I know what that is. Oh, man. I'm exhausted. We finally get the delimiter comic
strip blogger. There he is. 15,033 sets and he says how do you David Adam, on September 3 in 1939, the United Kingdom, New Zealand and Australia declared war on Germany after the invasion of Poland. Exactly. 25 years later, inventor of podcasting, Adam Curry was born. So, happy birthday to you, Adam. Yo, thank you for connecting me to Nazis. I really appreciate it. CSB. highly appreciate it. Thank you for supporting podcasting. 2.0 You've been doing it generously every single week and
with code to thank you all for boosting. That's really great, really great bunch of shadowy super coders. That's what y'all are. Yes, right, any monthlies, guest monthlies, Aaron Reno $5, Pedro gun calvess $5. Chad Ferro $20.22 Sister Loretta Vandenberg. $10 Scott Jalbert $12 Martin, Linda Skog, $1 and Mark Graham $1. Thank you to everybody and thank you to everybody who's ever donated to the show, even if it's just interest just $1 more towards your time, talent, treasure.
Yeah, all you took you took time out of your schedule to help and it's greatly appreciated. And we'll, we'll tally this up. We'll see how we did let everybody know but the numerology word really? I mean 100,000 SATs is $20 and just have like just 20 thrown out. Yeah, me I feel a little dirty like a stripper. But come on. This shit is good. It's working. But also just thank you for I mean, this is not just Adam and Dave but everybody knows that
this is everybody working together. This is some some kind of groovy formula that we've stumbled upon and it just seems to work I personally think it's because there is a monetary thing involved everybody can share a piece of but who knows regardless, I'm very very very grateful for this everything that's happening. And thank in really, thank you, thank you to the big to the ballers with Nina Drib and ITAR and Mike Newman, or, you know, this million sad I mean that we mean going to Dallas wasn't
cheap. And that comes out of the so far it's still on my card. And we you got to pay yourself back. But you didn't you didn't have to pay anything, right? It was all on my card when you checked out. Yes, it went to your card. Okay, so you'll, you have to transfer that over. And somehow I've got to figure it out. This goes back to your thing, John. You know, when you're talking about being
D platformed. And the potential for that I'm not so I had this experience this week I'm trying to pay for I'm trying to pay myself back from the pet from our Pay Pal for the cost on my card to pay Tim, Tim K for the LMP node. And I'm trying to pay this back and it's like, okay, well you can't you can't send money unless it's for goods or services because it's a business it's a bunch of disability so fucking complicated these a nightmare. And then I go in there and I'm trying to link a
bank account because Okay, gonna do transfer. I won't I won't do a PayPal thing I'll just do a transfer try to link my bank account to do it over here and it's like, you can't do this because it's not you have to set the name on the account supposed to be the name is same as the name and Pay Pal. And do this whole thing. I'm looking I'm like, Okay, I'm afraid to doing all this stuff. They're just gonna see like shenanigans going on and they're just gonna close the account like not not even
that it's content they get gets me the platform. But that is this this flaky, finicky Trigger Happy financial system can just be like, You know what, you're too much trouble got done. Like or you did one thing wrong. You tried to link something that wasn't that we don't like through AI or something and we're just gonna shut your whole account down. Yeah, there is a real risk for that. It's really sucks.
I'm afraid to do too much to it. Because I'm afraid that they're just going to be like, you know, you know what, this is weird. You're done. And that that that alone is worth the price of admission for lightning or some alternative system because you can you know if I need reimbursement for some expense it's how about this? Why don't we Why don't we set up I can set up I think I can set up strike on a on the podcasting 2.0 account. And then we could just transfer it and SATs. Yeah, maybe not,
which we'll think about but we'll come up with something. I love working around these systems is so stupid. Ya know, it's so add a man so maddening. What do we give this cIgi guy who didn't? 10% Yeah, 10% 10% Do you want him to go? You don't want to negotiate. John just sounded like that. Look, I'm just, I'm a rollover on this sort of stuff. I'm just stoked to be here. So you know, whatever you think is fair. Saturday morning, whatever. Straight? That's it. Okay, you're in the block. Good to go
there. Thanks. Yeah, no, of course. Genesis long, long board meeting. Do we need to do anything else before we wrap up? I don't think so. I've got I have other things I want to talk about that we will push into next week. Oh, yeah. Oh, there's so much to talk about so much to do. So little time. John. God, thank you so much, man for getting up early for being a part of this community as well. And a big part of it. And very active participant. And thank you for
the financial support. It's really easy. It's like comes on for free. Takes a cheap split. Thank you for sharing all your code. Thank you for putting all that up and sore. So we're really rip I know, that's you didn't that wasn't something that you were used to doing right? You didn't really do a lot of open source before. But now when you get out of your comfort zone and started doing that, I appreciate that's okay. I'm just hope that everyone anyone that can get
anything useful out of it, get something useful out of it. And and thank you, both of you for actually pulling this together kicking this off and it's developing a life of its own the whole podcasting 2.0 thing is just getting better and better every week. So it's exciting to be a part of it. Thank you. We're just getting started. Just getting started. Have a great weekend. Great Saturday for you. Great weekend for you, Dave. Thank you everybody in the chat room. Thank you all so much.
Thank you for commenting on the mastodon thank you for being around. And we'll see you next week with another board meeting podcasting. 2.0 see us right here. We'll be late as usual. Listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org For more information please come and talk to us please