Promoting a Podcast on TikTok with Lloyd George

Hey everyone, Ashley here with RSS.com. In today's episode, we're chatting with Lloyd George all about how to use TikTok to promote your podcast. Enjoy the show. Cool. Lloyd, welcome to the show. I'm so excited you could be here with us today. Can you do us a favor and tell us what it is you do? Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Ashley, huge fan of the show. So my name is Lloyd and I create content for people helping them start their first podcast. Well, that is a short and sweet description.

I think that might be the shortest description we've heard. That's kind of awesome. Now, when did podcasting come into what it is you do? Yeah, absolutely. So I started listening and consuming podcasts in 2015. I was working at a dead end job and I'd listen to podcasts to make the time go by. 2018 is when I decided, you know what, I could probably start my own podcast. I could transition from being a consumer to a creator. And so 2018 is when I decided

to start my first podcast. And 2021 was when I decided that, you know what, podcasting has changed my life in so many ways and I want as many people as possible to experience this. And so I started being an advocate for the podcast community and encouraging as many people as possible to start their podcast. Wow. So are you still stuck in that dead end job or are you just doing podcasting full time? I am a freelancer now. So I'd say about

50% of my time is like podcasting content, working with brands. And then the other 50% is just sort of like part-time project management. That's fantastic. Now, one of the things that actually kind of drew you into my radar is I was working on a post for Medium basically talking about different ways to promote a podcast and you were one of the very few people that actually recommended TikTok. So I'm very curious as to when you started using TikTok

to promote podcasts. Yeah, I'm probably one of the few people that is very spoiled because

I started using TikTok in December of 2021. And my first post got like 1200 views and I was just like, oh my gosh, this is like a post about nothing and 1200 people saw it. That's like amazing. I did not know that that was not normal. That was just that post has happened to do exceptionally well. On average, a post will get between like 200 and 300 views,

but that was just the spark I needed to know like, oh my gosh, this is possible. Literally about three or four months later, I had a post go viral and do over a hundred thousand views. And so it's just been a great platform and a great way for people to discover me. Are you on TikTok as well? I dabble. I dabble. Mostly right now I just like a lot of videos, but I mean for the RSS for our platform, we actually do have a TikTok account and we have

loaded a couple of videos, but in terms of my personal stuff, I'm still a lurker. Yeah, that's phase one. Yeah. So now whenever you started using TikTok, did you intend to use it for podcasting or you just started using it? No, I just started using it. And you know what? I hope in the future that those two sort of merge, right? I think as creators and podcasters, we sort of look at it like, Hey, this is my podcast, TikTok, and this

is my personal TikTok. This is my podcast, Instagram, my personal Instagram. And I think in the future, those will probably just become one thing, right? This is my page and I post about both things. And so with TikTok specifically, I just started creating content specifically for me with some of the things that I was interested in. And whenever I was featured on other people's podcasts or whenever I did do my own podcast, I'd also share it on my

platform. And so people sort of got to see different sides of me. And I think in some ways it was almost like unveiling the curtain to certain users because they may only know me for tech content. And then to see this guy talking about podcast content and microphones was also intriguing just to see somebody in a different light. And so for me, I just started with my personal account. And what I love about TikTok is it's very easy just to start

small, right? Like you don't have to plan, you don't need a great camera, you don't need a mic, you can just pull out your phone, make a video in 10 seconds and publish it. And you know, that's acceptable. Okay. So you said you don't really have a plan. So how do you, how do you decide what's going to go on the platform? Um, I, I personally, I wake up every day and my goal every single day is just how can I

publish the best possible video today? That, that is the only thing I think about for that specific day. Um, and the best video to me isn't necessarily the most high quality video. Sometimes it's just, you know, my best performing video ever is a video where I was in the car, I was kind of sick and I was just like, you know what, like, I don't feel like doing this today. I'm just going to pull out my phone and just do it to say I did it. And that video

ended up going viral. And so I think that level of authenticity, authenticity is what people are searching for, which makes this whole idea of not having a plan and just pulling out your phone, saying whatever is on your mind at that specific time. I think that's why posts like that do really well. And just to make a broader point, I think when you

look at, there's a new social media platform called Be Real. Um, and the idea here is just that, um, at a random point in the day, you'll get a notification saying, Hey, it's time for you to be real. And at that specific moment, you have two minutes to pull out your phone and take a picture of whatever is happening around you. And, um, you know, in, I think maybe September and October, it was the most downloaded app in the Apple app store. And

so I think people want that level of authenticity. They don't want something that seems over engineered. They want to know, you know, don't give it to me, filter, just give me the raw and authentic version of you.

You know, it's interesting you say that because, um, I follow, uh, Rachel Peterson, uh, she's, she's pretty big on tech talk. And she said that, you know, like, I think it was hers. She said that, um, some of the videos that she's done where she like puts on a full beat of makeup and she's got like the whole background and the whole plan, the whole script, all

the things we'll get like no views. And then she'll just take out her phone and just say something off the cuff and it gets like a million views. It's so bizarre, isn't it? And it's not fair. So you mean we can't be these scripted people anymore? Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. Do you, do you feel like people are the same way with their podcasts that we, we feel like we have to like dress ourselves up because we're like podcasting now?

Honestly, I do because like there's a, there's a joke that someone was telling me recently that they have to get out of podcaster voice because if they like, you know, they were putting their son to bed one night and he's like, I couldn't get out of podcaster voice. And my son looked at me and was like, could you quit reading the book like that dad? And I was just like, that's hysterical because you don't think of these things. That is so, that's a great analogy. I love that. That's so true.

And I bet we do it all the time and don't even realize it. Cause I know I do. I definitely do. Like I'll be on the phone and my voice like goes up a couple octaves and I start projecting. And my husband will just be like, can you just talk like a normal person, please? Like, I don't even know what that is anymore.

Right. Exactly. I live in the digital world. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I agree. And I, I, that's something I'm hoping to get better at in, in 2023, this idea that I think the more authentic you are, I think the more you'll find sort of like your true fans, you're the two people that actually love what you do and what you put out. Yeah. I'm trying to find my way into that myself. I was actually just talking to Jenny

Senescent. We were discussing podcasting and Pinterest and she was basically saying, you know, something similar to what you just said about how instead of having two different Pinterest accounts, you should have one that has the many facets of your brand because let's face it, let's face it, each, each one of us, we are our own brand at this point. And so if we're trying to promote multiple things, we might as well just have one place we do it all.

Yep. Absolutely. 100%. And it's so funny that you say that because I think that I, I agree and I believe that, um, methodology, but I feel like TikTok makes it very hard to do that. So I have three separate TikToks that all perform very well, but that's also because they're all for very specific things. Um, and I don't know that the rest of the world operates that way that I think people want just one person that embodies everything.

Um, so it's, it's something I'm trying to maneuver and navigate as well. Okay. Well, since you said that I gotta, I gotta bring it back to what we're talking

about here today. So is one of the TikToks specifically for your podcast? Um, it's not one of the TikToks is specifically for podcasting, which is very niche in itself. Um, and so all of the content that goes on that page is specific to podcasting. One day it may just be like, Hey, here's how I manage my schedule so that I can podcast, which is not necessarily, you know, on the surface podcast related, but in theory it's the same

sort of concept. And another one of the TikToks is just for like project management, where I talk about ways I got into sort of like my day job and how I was able to build a career without a college degree, which is an entirely different audience. Yeah, that is it. That really is totally different hashtags and everything. Well, so when you're, when you're working with people or with what you've seen in the industry of podcasting,

what do you see is happening with TikTok? What makes it a good way to promote a podcast? That's such a great, great question. And I think part of the reason we are all on social media is because we all want to be discovered by new people at the core foundation. That is, that is what we want. And the platforms that can do that really well tend to excel and the platforms that are still trying to figure it out, um, like Instagram tend to

have a harder time. And so with TikTok, I think the algorithm is so good that it is able to take content, put it out to people that don't know you in hopes that they will like your content, follow you and build a deeper relationship with you. And so I don't

know that I've seen any other platform that's able to do that as well as TikTok. Um, you know, some of the clips I post on, you know, I made a joke where I made this, uh, meme sort of saying like, Hey, my wife was laughing at me because as a podcaster, I emailed Barack Obama asking him to be on my podcast. And I just happened to put that video out and

it just performed so well. And, and so just to see like the reach that, uh, TikTok was able to give me and the amount of people that didn't know me that were now able to be exposed to my content. Um, that's such a tremendous benefit. And because we don't have any search or discoverability within the podcast sector, I think we're leaning on platforms like TikTok or YouTube to show our content to new people. Yeah, absolutely. Well, how do you think that

in terms of like downloads, cause we're all after downloads, right? How do you, how do you think it's helping people to, once they are discovered, get more downloads for their podcasts? All right. So like I, before I answer that question, I just want to take a step back and say a very controversial statement. I think that, you know, in the future, I don't know that downloads will be our, our be all. Um, and right now I think they are right.

Like RSS downloads. Um, I think next year there's a chance that we may be saying like, Hey, what are your RSS downloads? What are your YouTube numbers and what are your TikTok numbers? That's how I want to determine if I want to sponsor your podcast versus right now where I feel like it's just RSS downloads. Um, and so that is sort of like the broken link right now. If a post goes viral on TikTok, a podcast clip that doesn't necessarily guarantee

that, that virality will transfer into podcast downloads. And we're trying to make that a little more seamless and we've gotten a lot better, but right now that connection is a bit weak. There still is a core, a correlation, you know, like if something goes viral on TikTok, I can normally see my podcast numbers are a bit higher, but it's certainly not one

to one. Wow. That's a, that's a lot to digest. It was a loaded question. Yeah, it was, but it's kind of good because I mean, you know, if you're seeing these things happen in the industry already, then there's a chance that it could be going that way. So I think there's something to be said about, you know, you can't just rely. And that's another thing I was talking about with Jenny earlier is you can't just rely on one platform. I mean,

yes, you want your podcast to perform well and things like that. But if you're trying to get a message out there, you can't rely on anything as just your, your singular, this is how I'm going to get my comment out there for the world to hear. Yeah. And Ashley, you know, I want to ask you what you think about this. Do you, do you feel like video will

have a place in RSS? Like, do you feel like in the same way that someone can watch a YouTube video and get one view that will somehow figure out a way to count those towards like RSS numbers, even if it's like two to one or something? I can't speak for the company on that, but I personally, I think it, I think it might come that way. I don't know. I know that a lot more podcast hosting companies, they're starting to implement video into their, like

their overall plan. I know that, you know, YouTube just released an awesome guide to how to podcast on YouTube and things like that. So it's very clear that video is becoming the thing. Like, you know, if content is, is king, then clearly video content is, is kind of like the, the, the thing that's going to take over the throne, if you will. So I think that there's something to be said about if you're, if you're trying to make success

in the world of podcasting, you have to be a multifaceted content creator. You can't just rely on sitting behind the microphone anymore, which, which is terrible and awesome all at the same time, because you know, you do have your people that are in their basements,

just, you know, recording into a microphone and they don't want to be on camera. But I think that what we're going to start to see is that the people who are, who are willing to, to do multiple types of content are going to be the ones that are going to shine. Yeah, absolutely. That's a great point. And I think to that point, I think all of us as podcasters, we are just trying to build communities of people. And that's where I think TikTok

and some of those platforms could be helpful. I don't know that if a TikTok, a podcast clip goes viral on TikTok, I don't know that that is going to benefit my podcast because a million people are going to go now view my podcast. I think the way in which TikTok will help my podcast is there's these people that are being exposed to my short form content that are starting to love me and they're starting to ask themselves, how can I get more of Lloyd

or how can I watch something of Lloyd's that's more than 60 seconds. And so having that community transition from TikTok or Instagram to the podcast where they can now get an hour guaranteed every single week, I think is the way in which those two entities will work together. Okay. So let's pull that back for just a second. So if we're talking about the idea of needing

to promote yourself on more than one platform and we've already mentioned the fact that, you know, you can't exactly get TikTok numbers to translate to direct downloads. Would you say that the better way to go about getting, let's say sponsorships for a podcast is to create like a new list of deliverables other than just a podcast mentioned? Absolutely. 100%. Such a great, great, great, great point. And just, I will say also, just

a side note, just to backtrack. I do think that there is a way to get that correlation between TikTok and your podcast. I just think it requires a lot more intentionality than what people think. And so I've been doing these videos where I say, Hey, I just interviewed a creator that has, they made a million dollars from their YouTube page. Here's how they said they did it. And so the person starts explaining how they said they did it. And then it gets

to a cliffhanger and that's where the video ends. And so the only way you get the rest of that answer is to actually go to the podcast. And so I just don't think a lot of TikTokers are thinking about that level of intentionality when it comes to their podcast clips. That said, I will say, I think that I am starting to see more creators say, Hey, instead of you paying me $200 for me to feature you on my podcast, how about you pay me a thousand

dollars and I'll give you a TikTok shout out. I'll include you in my email and I will write a review for you or something or a YouTube video. And so bundling, I do think that in the is going to be a great way for like creators to collaborate with brands just because a lot of the creators I'm seeing start to do this have smaller audiences. So it's in their best interest to do so.

Well, yeah. And anybody who's listening to this, if they hear the thousand versus the 200, they're going to want the thousand every day. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And you know, when you think about it, a lot of these brands just to get some sort of like an actual action from a listener, they're going to have to see the ad multiple times. That's true. Cause what does it say? You got to be seen seven times before someone even considers working with you. Exactly. Exactly. That's a great point.

Okay. So let's say I'm a brand new podcaster. I haven't even launched my podcast. I'm thinking about it. I'm just getting ready. So I come to you, I tell you, okay, Lloyd, I really want to start my podcast and I want to promote it on TikTok. What do I do first? The first thing I'd say is it absolutely needs to be a video podcast. If you want to promote it on social, obviously. And then if you think about creating your podcasts as a video first

podcast, I think that's going to give you an advantage. And so some of the small ways that that may translate is whenever you're recording your podcast, you'll do everything the exact same, but you'll want to make sure that you put your phone right next to you and record yourself via video as you are recording your podcast. And so finding small ways like that to continue to include video in your podcast, um, will be an easy way for you to

promote your podcast on TikTok. That said, once you have your, your podcast recorded and you have that video file, you'll want to chop it up into small clips and you'll want the clips to essentially, um, either you want them to provide context and solve the problems. In other words, it's like answering a question or you don't want them to have any context, but you want them to be entertaining, captivating, or something controversial that

captures people's attention on TikTok. You have about three seconds for someone to decide whether they're going to watch your video or not. And so if they do watch it, it's going to be because it helps them like it actually has information they need or it's entertaining. Okay. You said three seconds. So here's what I need to know. Do you believe the, um, old

adage that, you know, you're, you only get the one chance to make a first impression or can you bomb terribly and then come back and try again? Um, I do not believe that I believe you can bomb terribly. And that's like the beautiful thing about TikTok. You can, and I saw an interesting article that was suggesting that what if every single day you just posted the same video because that video, about 80% of the people that see it are going to be net new. Those are people that have never seen

your content before. So it actually makes more sense to keep reposting it until it does well until TikTok finds the appropriate algorithm and sends it in that direction. Um, and so that said, I look at every day as sort of like a new opportunity. And so I wake up every day, I say, you know what today I'm going to put out one video and if it fails, that's totally okay. Cause tomorrow is a completely different audience and same with the next

day. Um, and so the more at bats you have, the more you increase your chances of success. When I started, I was actually doing like seven videos a day, just because I knew that was like seven tries per day. Wow. So it feels like a lot of pressure though. I think it's less pressure because if you're doing one video, you have the stakes of that video needing to be really good or a lot higher for you than they are for me.

Okay. So what do you say to the person who's like, yeah, but I'm scared to go on camera. Yeah, that's a great, great point. I have a friend named Austin Hankiewicz, who's an amazing creator. I'd say about, um, he's a finance creator and I think he has like 500,000 followers on TikTok. I just, I mean, he does this full time, but I'd say about

maybe 80% of his videos are not on camera and the other 20% are. And so he does this weird thing where he has his phone pointed on a piece of paper and he's like writing and talking, but you never see his face and they're so engaging, so interesting. Um, and so I encourage people, you know, don't let that hold you back. It's more important that you just start because even if you don't show your face, let's just say for the first

six months, that's still six months of you getting better as a creator. That's still six months. If you're trying to create an audience and a community, um, this is so many benefits to starting sooner rather than later. Okay. Because I saw your TikTok today, I already know what you're going to say, but what do you say to the people who are like, but everybody's going to judge me for what I post.

Right, right, right. That's such a great, great, great is understanding. And I, you know, I was actually victim to that, that, um, assumption as well, this idea that, you know, I'm not starting because I think people are going to look at me weird that I'm starting a podcast. And, um, now that I've started, I can't, you know, that couldn't be further

from the truth. The reality is most of the people that I thought cared didn't care. Um, and even as I look back at my podcast numbers, there weren't enough people listening that, you know, anyone could actually care. It was literally my mom, my wife, my brother, my sister. Great. Um, and so I think, um, what I now know is the earlier you start the, the longer of an opportunity you have to get better. Um, and so don't put that much pressure on

yourself now, just get started. And one thing you can do that I did as well is I created content with no intention of ever putting it out. Just literally just for myself to get comfortable talking on camera, hearing my voice, same with like my podcast. I'd record episodes and just leave them on my computer. Um, it wasn't until my wife was like, Oh, this is pretty good. You should like put this out. And that gave me the confidence I needed

to, to release my first episode. That's an interesting idea. I never thought I would do it. Well, actually that's not completely true. I have thought of doing that just to kind of get comfortable with the medium of doing things. So how much of the content that you never thought would see the light of day is now online. That's a great question. Probably 90% of it, but I do create a lot of content. Like, you know, last, last winter I was doing

probably like 20 videos, um, every week. So like on a Saturday, I just bash create 20 videos. And so if maybe like I record 20, but maybe only like 12 get out, I'm okay with that. Like I still get to improve and get better. And as I look back at some of my older content, I can't believe I have released that and put that out. And that I think is just reflective of the fact that if you start sooner than later, you have a bigger opportunity

to improve. Okay. I got to ask another question. I just have to say one last thing. I think people underestimate how much creating content online could actually change their life. And I think about someone like myself that, you know, like I don't have like a college degree. I don't have a lot of like experience professionally, but I've gotten job offers from like people listening to my podcast and saying like, Oh, I heard you're passionate about this. I love

the way that you thought about that. If you interested, we have an opportunity for you. Um, I've had people fly me to different cities to create content and I'm not like a super big creator, right? But that's just like, that's the content ecosystem. You don't know who's listening. There's a guy named, uh, Paul C Brunson, and he talks about how he started a podcast years ago and he'd get like 10 YouTube videos or 10 views on YouTube or

something. Um, and for years he didn't get any views. Most of those views are his mom, but one of the people that was watching that YouTube was Oprah and she ended up hiring him to do a show. Right. And so you just don't know what could happen, where it could lead. And so that's just like the beauty of it. Well, because of the fact that you're talking

about, you don't know where it could lead. You don't know who's watching. Do you ever delete your content? I have like deleted two videos in my lifetime, but I absolutely recommend that people don't delete their content. Um, I I'll delete it if I feel like it's, um, it's not legible. Like it, like it's hard to understand or you can't like read it or hear it. Um, but outside of that, you know, I think this evolution of our, uh, social

profiles, you know, it's great and it's helpful for a lot of people. And the beauty of social media is it compounds. And so there's a lot of content I've posted like that I have posted now that within the first month of me posting it performed terribly, but every month it's just like, you know, 300 more people watch it, 300 more people watch it. And that over

a year, you know, it, you know, it adds up. Now with tick talk, do you feel like you have to add certain hashtags to it or is it just, you know, you post stuff and people see it? Yeah, yeah. That's such a great question. And I think when I normally hear people talk about tick tock, I think there's a lot of people that talk about it conceptually. I just want to give some like practical tips and some practical things you can do that

will help your videos. Um, the first is like hashtags and you know, I think this varies. I don't have like the perfect answer. What I have seen work for me is I normally use about six hashtags. Two of them will sort of be like larger and sort of broad over like the overall industry. So I may use like podcasting podcaster. And then the next two will be specific to like that topic on that episode. So it may be, you know, how to become a podcaster

or how to start your podcast using anchor or how to check, how to use rss.com. So it's specific to that episode. And then the last two will be ultra niche. So I may say, um, one of them is always, um, hashtag Lloyd not G so that if someone just wanted to click a hashtag and see all of my videos I've ever created or been tagged in, they can do that. And so I just sort of use this methodology that starts very high level and zooms in.

Um, the other thing you can do practically is, um, if you can pick a viral song in your tick tock and then lower the volume, but you want to make sure the song you're picking, um, tick tock also uses what they call domain authority. And so if you're picking a hashtag with a million users, but you only have a thousand followers, um, you don't have enough domain authority to rank within that hashtag. So you'll want to pick a smaller hashtag

that you can essentially like own. And as you get bigger, you'll start to pick larger hashtags.

Man, the one that you said that just kind of is emblazoned in my brain right now is that you use your own name as a hashtag. What gave you that idea? What gave you the idea that I took a, a tick tock course and one of the ladies in there said that. And I just loved that. That's such a great idea. And so now it's like, you can go back, click. And the beautiful thing is hashtags accumulate views. Um, just obviously that's how you know

how many people have seen it. So I can now go to my hashtag and hashtag Lloyd non-G and you can see like, Oh, I've accumulated 50 million views or whatever it may be. My mind's blown right now. I it's, it's something I never would have thought of and it's genius. Yeah. I great, a great way to brand yourself. Absolutely. Brilliant. Absolutely. Brian. I'm like writing down notes left to right. So now with your titles though, like, do you

have to come up with like something special or is it just kind of like the hashtags? You just do it based on what's in the video. Yeah, this is, this is where it gets very, very nuanced and complex. And I think this is sort of like where, like we have the biggest opportunity to really set ourselves apart. I was just on a call yesterday and I was asking the guy like, Oh, how'd you like hear about me? Like, how'd you find me? And he was like, Hey,

I searched up podcasting and tick tock and you were the first video that came up. And so tick tock is becoming more of a SEO or a search engine. Um, and really for most of Gen Z and even like a large percentage of millennials, they're using tick tock as their primary search engine. And so you want to make sure everything that, that you're putting

in, um, your tick tock bio is easily searchable. And so that's how I think of it. Um, I do have sort of like my high level keywords that I want to rank for and I want people to find me. And so I try and weave it into every single post. I do not have a post that is not like SEO optimized. Well, speaking of SEO, do you repurpose those

tick tock videos anywhere else? I do, but, um, my personal experience is that does not work that well. I do it just because I have nothing to lose doing it. Um, and so for instance, I may post something on tick tock that's going to average, let's just say 10 new followers each time I post a video on tick tock. That same video will maybe average one new follower per video on Instagram. And so it's technically not that

helpful, but I have nothing to lose doing it. And I think the reason that is, is the types of videos that I think that do well on Instagram are very different than the types of videos that do well on tick tock and tick tock. You kind of know, Hey, you need a hook. You need a great story and the algorithm is really good. So even if you have a two minute video, it can still perform well on tick tock on Instagram. A lot of the content I see is

like less than 10 seconds, like a lot of the content that performs really well. And so that's sort of like how I'm thinking about it. All these platforms, including YouTube shorts, all kind of need something different in order to really excel on the platform. And so I'm still wrapping my mind around how can I like repurpose all of this content? Well, and yeah. And the other problem you deal with with if you try to repurpose to

YouTube shorts is unlike tick tock, you get copyright strikes. Exactly. Exactly. And, and that's like a whole, that's, you know, something I feel like we're not talking about enough in podcasting, like what happens if you create a podcast with a clip and use a sound in it. Um, and so now that podcast is sort of restricted with where you can put it kind of to your point, like you can't put it on YouTube, right? You can't even run an

ad against it, right? Back to like our conversation about Facebook ads. So I agree with you. Yeah. And you know, the sad thing is like, whenever you do get these, these copyright issues, you sometimes can't even keep it on the podcast platform of choice, because they know that they can get dinged and they don't want to have to deal with the legal troubles.

So Gordon Firemark, who's the podcast lawyer, he talks a lot about this. And so we'll leave some stuff in the show notes about different music things that you need to be aware of, because there's a common myth that, oh, I can use seven seconds. No, you can't. No, you can't. There's so many things that I think are very much. And I think part of it is it's intentionally very great, but I think there are a lot of misconceptions like what

we can and can't do. Well, and plus, I mean, the other thing is, you know, all this media stuff, a lot of it is still very new. And so we're all trying to navigate it and figure it out. 100%. I agree with you. And I think I don't even think we've hit like the, I think maybe like five years from now, there's going to be a lot of people getting notices to take

songs out of their podcast. Oh, absolutely. Especially, you know, the more, well, actually though, there's an interesting thing that is happening that I've been reading about is that some of these artists that are on Tik TOK are okay with it because of the fact that they're suddenly getting downloads for songs that no one cared about for a while.

100%. Absolutely. And I, and I think that I sometimes wonder, I wish there was a more seamless way that smaller artists that are new that do want their songs featured could easily say, Hey, I would love if you use my song in your podcast. And so the only way I know to do that now is to use some of like the audio platforms that have royalty free music, but even that process is a bit cumbersome. Yeah. And I've actually heard of some podcasters

that will actually reach out to local musicians that they know. And they'll be like, Hey, can you write me a song? Like, for example, with my own podcast, I, I commissioned a song. Like I didn't want to, I didn't want to risk, you know, using anything that would get me a copyright strike. And so I actually found a music producer and had him create a brand

new composition just for me. How do you do that? What, like, what do you say? You like, do you like, you tell them what you want it to like sound like, or I sent him several

clips of what I liked. And I basically was just like, you know, can you give me something that that sounds good, but that kind of has this vibe. And he sent me a couple of different clips and I said yes or no. And then whenever we created the RSS.com podcast, I kind of went through the same thing. I had to go with a different music producer because that guy

was no longer taking on clients. But, but yeah, we did the same thing. We, I told him, you know, different things that I was looking for and what kind of compositions I liked. And because I listened to a lot of podcasts, go figure. And so I sent him like kind of the intro songs to some of my favorites, as well as like, you know, little musical clips that I thought were interesting. And we kind of just played with it till we found what we liked.

That's so cool. I love that. I, you know, I do know that like large podcasts do that. Like I know how I built this. They commissioned music every single episode or something, but I love that. That's so cool. And I can't wait until I can do that for my podcast. What's interesting is it's not nearly as expensive as some people think. I mean, like I thought it was going to be like multiple thousands of dollars, but there are some musicians that

are trying to get their name out there. And so they'll do it, you know, anywhere from 50 to a hundred bucks for a new song. So that's amazing. That's really cool. Yeah. And I mean, you know, I started looking on like Fiverr and Upwork and, and things like that, because I knew that there's going to be a lot more people on there, but then you of course have the issue of some people will steal other people's music. And so you got to be careful

and read all the reviews. Wow. Yeah, that's amazing. I love that idea. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. And I think that podcasting is going to blow up even more in 2023. I think we're going to see a lot more coming from this medium and I'm here for it. Yeah. What, what, what, what does that look like to you? What, like if let's just say podcasting got bigger in 2023, what would that look like?

One thing I think that we're going to see a lot more podcast networks. I think we're going to see a lot more of the smaller creators banding together to create their own networks together because there's something to be said for, you know, the community of it all. But you know, if you're trying to compete with, you know, your, your Michelle Obama podcast or your, you know, your Joe Rogan's of the world, you have to have something that makes

you stand out. And so I think we're going to see a lot more podcast networks coming together of smaller creators that look bigger because they have power in numbers. And I think we're going to see a lot more community building. I think that's going to be like, I mean, you know, we, we just interviewed Tom McNeil with, with Patreon and we were talking about community and, and the importance of not just making it just a show. It's not

enough to just be a talking head talking to people. We want to talk with people and, and, and build that, that togetherness. I love that so much. And I, I like, I think you hit

the nail right on the head and that's something that's like big priority for me to probably like number one priority, this idea that I think I'm becoming more comfortable with having, you know, not having a thousand fans and having a hundred that I know are in my Patreon. They love what I do. We talk, I know their names. Um, just this idea of community. It's so important. Well, and we, I think we all, especially after, you know, the 2020 pandemic, we are all craving

connection. Yeah. And we want to know that there are other people that are like-minded that think like we do. And I think that that's the beauty of podcasting is that, you know, you could be the guy who likes to talk about micro machines and how to paint them, you know, a different color and you could find people that also want to paint micro machines. Right. Exactly. I mean, any niche you can think of there's, there's an audience out

there for it. And it's, I think that we're going to see a lot more of that. We're going to see a lot more like micro niche podcasts and we'll see some weird and I'm, I'm here for it. I, I'm excited for it. Cause I think that, you know, the more that people are like, Hey, I have a message too. And the more accessible podcast is going to keep podcasting is going to keep becoming, I think we're going to see some pretty interesting things this year.

I 100% agree. And I'm excited for it. Yes. Same here. Yes. So where can people find you online? Yeah. So I am on all platforms as at Lloyd, not George. Obviously is my first name being Lloyd, last name, George. People always call me George. So I figured I'd make it clear. So you can find me at at Lloyd, not George. That's on Tik TOK, Instagram, YouTube and LinkedIn. That's fantastic. Well, I got to ask you one last question before

I let you go. And it's the one I ask everyone before I let them off the show. And that is, that is one question I didn't ask you that you really wish I had. Yeah. I think one question you did not ask me is if I, if I could start any podcast, what would it be? Um, and it would probably be a podcast encouraging people to relax more and drink more water. Um, and I just think that, you know, that to me seems like the recipe to life. And so I just hope

more people start to do that. That's awesome. In fact, we actually have a podcast on rss.com called drink more water. Love it. I have to check it out. Yeah. It's, it's pretty cool. And I like the health and wellness stuff too. So yeah, relax. Relax. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Relax. Drink more water. Relax. Drink more water and do a Tik TOK. Exactly. Well, thank you so much for having me by the way. I was just going to say thank you so much for being here. Cause everything that you shared was like so good and also a little scary. And the reason I say that is because, you know, for the, for the introverted people or the,

the people that are kind of afraid to be on camera. Cause like even now, like I still get the heebie-jeebies every time I'm about to go on camera and nobody believes that because I get like this personality once I come on camera. Yeah. But I just, um, it's a little scary to think of putting yourself out there and being real. But, uh, but I like it. I think, I think it's, I think it's going to be very exciting. Yeah. And that's like, you

know, the weird thing. Cause with like your podcast, you can kind of record it, put it out and look at it again next week with Tik TOK. There's just like obsession to have to look at it every single hour, see how it's doing. Do I, what are the people saying? Did anyone comment? And it could be exhausting. So I totally resonate with that. Yeah. So it's like, just put your phone down and let the chips fall where they may. Exactly. Exactly.

Literally. Well, thank you again for being here. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Well, my fellow podcasters, we hope you enjoyed the insights, tips and ideas shared in this episode to learn more about launching and growing your own show. Head over to rss.com backslash blog. And if you're ready to launch a podcast of your own, you can get started for free with your first episode on us. Thanks for tuning in.