Podcasting for No Reason with Kate Volman

Hey everyone, Ashley here with RSS.com. In this episode, we're chatting with Kate Vulman, who is the host of the Create For No Reason podcast. We're talking about giving yourself permission to play with the podcasting medium and enjoying the creative process. So, let's get started. Well, Kate, welcome to the show. I'm so excited you could be here today. Can you do us a favor and tell us what you do? Sure. Well, Ashley, first of all, thank you so much for having me.

This is such a fun little blast from the past that we met so many years ago and now we get to reconnect. I am the CEO of Floyd Coaching. So, my team and I, we get to work with organizations to help them build dynamic cultures. And of course, like many of your listeners, I am a creator. I'm a very multi-hyphenate entrepreneur who just does a lot of different things. I'm a podcaster. I'm an author. I love creating videos. I'm a creator. I love that so much.

And it's interesting you say the coaching because that's not actually how we met. We met in the content creation space. And I found you again because you have an awesome newsletter that says Create For No Reason. And what got me so excited about that is that you really stand by what you say of just getting out there and just playing. So, when did podcasting come into your world? Podcasting came in... Okay, so like a lot of podcasters, I dabbled. I was a dabbler in podcasting, right?

So, I actually, Ashley, if I really think about it, it was all the way back in probably like 2008 when I learned about podcasting and I learned what it was. And I still remember going into my friend's office and he was like, oh yeah, there's this thing called podcasting. And I started, I quote unquote, started this podcast called Smart Talk for Women, which was a program that I did for the Chamber of Commerce and I worked there at the time.

Now, this is forever ago. Nobody was listening to podcasts. It wasn't like a thing. But it kind of introduced me to the world of podcasting. And then, you know, Facebook came out and all the things started coming out. And so, I really wasn't doing any kind of podcasting. And then it wasn't until years later that a friend of mine said, hey, let's start a podcast. This was probably, I don't know, maybe like five years ago. And we started a podcast called Trajectory.

Trajectory, and it was with my friend. And we kind of, we came up with this title because it was like, you know, trajectory just sounds like you're making your way into your future. You're creating your life. And so, we had that podcast for a little while and then, like a lot of podcasters, life gets in the way. You kind of stop doing it. And so, we really stopped doing that podcast. And then a couple years later, this is two, about two years, this is October 2020.

So, my friend Sean, Sean Funder, who you know, he and I were talking and I said, we should start a podcast. And so, we were thinking, what are we going to talk about? And Sean and I, we could talk about the creative process all day. Just writers, authors, comedians, creator, any type of content creator, we just, we could just geek out on it all day long.

And so, we thought we would have a podcast that was just kind of talking about that kind of stuff, like what happens when you're creating, imposter syndrome and perfectionism and all of those topics. And so, we brainstormed forever. Ashley, it was forever. We could not figure out the perfect title of the podcast. And like, again, so many of the listeners, we probably spent way too much time contemplating it because you just have to kind of pick one and roll with it.

And then at some point, I remember, I still remember, you know, you have those memories where you're, you know, where you were and what you were doing. I was on the phone with him and I was in my kitchen and I was like cutting something up for making my dinner. And I said, create for no reason. I said, create for no reason. Just because I love that title because it's create for no reason, but also there is a reason. You're creating for the joy of it, like just for the joy of it.

So, I love its double meaning. And I thought that is the name of our show. And once we named it, the next week, we got on the microphone and recorded our first episode. And in October of 2020, create for no reason was put out into the world. You birthed your podcast. We birthed our podcast and it was a beautiful thing. Now, is he still recording with you? So, this is, okay, this is another thing about the creation process. You never know what's going to happen.

And so, he and I recorded podcasts. We did about, I think it was about 40 episodes. And after about 40 episodes, we did a bunch of them, just the two of us. And then we started inviting guests to come on. So, we started doing that. And then about 40 episodes in, he just kind of was doing a lot of other projects and things.

And life for him got really, really busy. And so, he decided to go and pursue other projects. And I was like, okay, I am a really great starter. I can start anything like the best of them, right? Like I'm sure that if you're listening, you probably, maybe you're like that, right? Like you can start a podcast. You can start a channel on YouTube or something. But it's consistency and finishing. That's the hard part. And I said when we started the podcast, I said, I really want to do 100 episodes.

Like if we're going to do it, we have to at least do 100 episodes. Even if no one listens, even if no one likes it, we have to commit to doing 100 episodes. And so, he decided to not do it. And I immediately was like, I'm doing this. I said we were going to do 100 episodes. And I am not stopping. And so, I started getting more guests. And so, I started having more of these conversations. And so, that was in October 2020.

Now, I was super, super consistent every single week getting one out, getting one out, getting one out. I will say the past few months I haven't because of some other projects. But I'm still committed to doing it. And I'm at episode 90 right now. So, I have 10 more to go to get to that 100.

And because I gave myself a little bit of grace and I took a little bit of time off to just allow myself to not feel like I was doing it just for the purpose of doing it and because I really wanted to live what the podcast was about, which is the joy of it. I did lose a little of the joy of it. And so, I thought, okay, give myself a little bit of break, came back, and now I'm back on track. And so, I'm like, okay, even after 100, I'm going to keep doing it because I just enjoy doing it.

I like the practice of it all. I love that. I really do. So, now, a lot of episodes have been done in a short amount of time in podcaster terms, I guess you'd say. So, what was it like trying to get that many episodes cranking? Well, what's funny is it's almost like we have to trick our brains into just starting, right? Like, I was like, okay, 100 episodes. And 100 episodes seems like a lot. It's like, oh, my gosh.

And if you're only focused on that, then you're thinking, oh, my gosh, we're only on episode one. We're only on episode five or 10 or whatever it is. And so, in the back of my mind, I had the goal of 100. But every week, it was more of like a, Sean, we just have to show up every week. Like, as long as we show up every week, then it's going to be a year. We're going to have 52 episodes, and we're not going to even know what happened. And it was just the consistency and the practice.

And what we also noticed was if we skipped a week or two, we kind of lost that podcasting muscle. And you know, because you're a podcaster, as a podcaster, we're so critical of the ums, the ahs, the likes, the you knows.

It's so cringeworthy when I do it because I'm like, I should know better than that. You know, this is what I do. And the more that you do it, the more that you recognize it and the better you become as a podcaster, as an interviewer. And so if we just switch our mind from, hey, we have to hit this goal or we have to hit this number or how many downloads or any of that kind of stuff, and we focus more on showing up, doing the work, more on the content, what am I saying?

What should I, what needs to be said? What do I find interesting that I think other people would really resonate with? And if we focused a lot more time on that, I wonder how many more, how much more success people would see because they're just focused on what they can control. Versus what they can't control.

We can't control how many downloads or how many people are going to listen, but we can control the messaging, why we're doing it, and honestly just showing up every single day or week or whenever you decide the cadence of your podcast is. So you mean I don't have to show up with the intention of making a whole bunch of money? I know, right? Shocking. Can you imagine doing something and not getting paid for it? I mean, that's kind of what I want to talk about though.

Like, I mean, you know, a lot of people, whenever they come to us, you know, they want to start a podcast because they have a passion for something. But then you just get inundated with a lot of information about how to monetize and how to grow and how to get more downloads. I'm getting the impression from you though, if you're not enjoying it, none of that matters. I mean, look, everyone has their thing. And it's about the intentionality.

If it was my intention to have a podcast business, well then yeah, I would look at things a completely different way than I did when I started Create for No Reason. It would be a completely different strategy. So if the dream, if anyone listening has a dream of being a full-time podcaster and earning a living from it, that's awesome. And you can absolutely achieve that dream. I have friends that do it for a living and they do very well.

And now they teach other people how to do it and they have courses and they've really designed their life around podcasting and they were very strategic about it. At least for me right now in my journey, I am not interested in that. I am not of interest in me. I, for whatever reason, now that totally could change a year from now. But for me, it's more of an outlet that I use just to have fun and it brings me a lot of joy. It has also allowed me to meet some really interesting people.

And it also is, so I wrote a book this year and it helped me with the practice of the creative process. And I think that the fact that I can show up and flesh out your ideas on a podcast is really cool because maybe sometimes I don't feel like sitting down and writing, but I kind of want to riff on a specific topic. So the practice of having to get behind the microphone and share a specific message, it's almost like it does a lot for me in the creation process.

So that's the purpose of my podcast. I want to share really great information. I want to help people understand that getting back to the joy of creating, whether it's a podcast, whether it is doing videos or you want to write a book or you want to do photography or art or painting or any of that stuff, you don't have to earn a living doing it. Just because you're a really great painter doesn't mean you have to sell everything that you create. And so that's the message that I want to share.

So it's just a very different outlook on it, right? Neither one is good or bad, it just is. And so I think everyone has to be really clear on what is your outcome, what is the goal that you're really looking to do. But obviously, like any business, there's no get-rich-quick scheme. I don't think anybody should think, hey, I'm going to start a business and within three months I'm going to be earning six figures and it's going to be this multimillion dollar business.

It's the same thing if you start a podcast. You have to go into an understanding, like, are there ways to monetize? Yes, but it's a process and you have to kind of structure it and just kind of know what you're getting yourself into. And like any other, it's like any other business. But those are different ways to look at it. I'm glad you said all of that because I don't know if you follow Denise Stufield Thomas.

I've mentioned her a couple of times on the podcast before, but she had a podcast episode. I think it was a podcast episode or maybe it was just a YouTube video. But she basically was just saying, you don't have to monetize every hobby you have. You're allowed to do it just for fun. And that's kind of what's resonating so much with me right now with what you're saying is, you know, there's so many things that it's like you get into it and then you think, God, I'm spending a lot of time on this.

Maybe I should try to make some money from it. But it's like, why can't we just instead just have fun with it? And that's one of the reasons I like what your message is so much. So I'm going to ask you, to you, what does the phrase create for no reason really mean? What does that embody for you? Well, I had mentioned, I think one of the reasons why I love the title so much is because it was like the essence of when I said it when we were trying to come up with the term.

Because I love the creative process, because I love hearing about authors and comedians and writers and artists that just they show up and do the work. And it's almost like they can't not do it. They love it so much. They can't not. I've heard comedians talk about how this is a horrible life. We are on the road so many days and we're in bad hotels and eating crappy food. And don't choose this life. But they have to because they love the practice of getting up on stage.

And so for me, create for no reason is around, hey, create for no reason. Give yourself permission to just have fun, to just enjoy, to just see what happens. Like, let's just allow ourselves to be creative because we as we get older and we're we are so focused on return on investment and all of that stuff. We forget that we used to love to paint and take pictures and and do photography or whatever that craft is that you love so much.

And for a lot of your listeners, it's it's things like podcasting and videos and putting content out into the world. You're allowed to do that just for fun. And when we think about the monetization piece of it, what's fascinating to me is we have to remember the second that we trade our craft for a dollar amount. And when someone pays us for that work, our relationship with that work changes. It doesn't we see it all over.

I saw with my friend who is who is a designer and he goes into his workshop and his workshop used to be his happy place. And he loved creating and making all of these really cool. He was like a woodworker, like with his hands and he loved it. And then all of a sudden people were like, you should start a business. He started the business. He started hating going into his workshop. This place that was his sanctuary of just music and creating.

He hated it because he's like, I feel like I'm now working at just like, hey, you could just order this online and I'm going to I'm not Amazon. I'm a I'm an artist. And so he just that he really lost a lot of the love that he had for the pieces that he was creating. And so he really stopped doing it for a few years. And so that is something to to recognize. And remember, we see it all the time with all these influencers.

Right. How many influencers say it is so stressful because someone's paying us money to create these videos. They have to perform. They have to do well. People have to actually buy from the link or it's not considered a success. And so, again, not good or bad. But these are things that we have to remember. And so to go back to your original question, that's really what it means to me is just like giving yourself that permission. Grieve for no reason. Have fun with it.

There's so much joy that comes out of that comes out of creating in the book that I wrote. I talk about return on investment. Well, what about return on creating? What about your rock instead of your ROI? What about your turn on on creating your return on creating is? How much more energized do you feel? How it helps your relationships? You become a better leader, a better parent, a better friend because you're happier. You're living a more fulfilling life.

So why don't we kind of in terms of our creativity, think about what is that doing for us? And then we might see it a little bit differently. Then we might allow ourselves and give ourselves permission to make the time and space for the creating of the creating what we really want to create in our life. I guess the big question I have for you is how do you prevent yourself from getting caught up in all the things?

Because I mean, creating so many episodes, you still have to put a lot of thought into it. You still have to do a lot of steps to get the episodes ready to go. So kind of walk me through how you, I guess, create a podcast episode without stress, without freaking out about the end result. Well, podcasting without stress, that's a book. Something that Ashley needs to write that book. So my initial reaction right when you said that was reps. It's all reps.

You know, the more that you do, the easier that it becomes. That's what I have found. You know, one of the apps that I'm not huge on social media these days, but one app that was really big during the pandemic was Clubhouse. And it's an audio only app for those that don't know. And so I am part of this community called Breakfast of Champions over on Clubhouse. And I do a segment, a 30 minute segment every week, which is kind of like a podcast episode.

And every week I have to come up with what am I going to say to these people? There's like a couple hundred people in the room. I'm like, what am I going to say to these people every Thursday morning? And because I do it every single week, I always come up with content. I always come up with a story, what I want to share, something that happened to me, a person that I met, a book that I read, something I listen to. And so when it comes to podcasting, that's how I create my podcast episodes, too.

I mean, you get my weekly newsletter. I have to think about what am I going to write in this newsletter every week? And last week I was thinking, what am I going to write in my newsletter? And I was going back and forth with all these different topics. And then I said, you know what? This is a podcast episode. And I got on my mic and I called the episode The Thing About Creating. And I talked about the thing about creating is it's like, we want it to be perfect, but it's not perfect.

And you have to show up and you have to do the work. And it's all of these. It's just like a collection of all of the things that we've done in the past that helped push us forward to create these different messages. And so I would say it's so much about the reps. Like, there are some episodes that I do that I'm like, nailed it, killed it. I love this episode. And then there's some episodes I do, I'm like, that was kind of lame.

But either way, I put it out because sometimes the kind of lame ones, I get people that say, oh, my gosh, I needed to hear that. You were speaking directly to me. And so who am I to judge what somebody else needs? Who am I? I mean, there's a beautiful TED Talk by Ethan Hawke, and it's about creativity. And I love what he talks about because he's like, it's so fickle. The audience is so fickle. We never know what they're going to like or what they're not.

And so that's why the only thing you can control is your message. So if you're proud of it, if you think it's going to help. But you got to put in the reps. Putting in the reps is the only way to be more comfortable with getting behind the mic and doing the episodes, not being afraid to put out mediocre work, not being afraid that every single one of your shows is perfect because none of them are. But you got to show up, doing the work, putting in the reps. That's what it is.

Like every comedian, author, creator, artist, they always will say, it's like, you just got to keep doing them. Yeah, because you never know when inspiration is going to strike and you're talking about just keep showing up because the more that you do, the easier it becomes. One of my favorite books is by James Altucher. It's called Choose Yourself. And in it, he talks about how he started doing an idea brainstorming session.

Like every single day he would commit to sitting down and just writing down 10 ideas. Something simple, just 10 ideas of anything. It could be on anything. And the more you do it, the more you just come up with things. And I remember I did this for about 30 days and just writing on anything. And I came up with so many blog post ideas, so many YouTube video ideas, so many everything ideas that don't have anything in common.

They're not necessarily like, I think one day was about different flavors of ice cream. Like it's just, just completely different things that don't necessarily make any sense. But the fact that I kept doing it kept giving me more ideas. And the more I tried, the more ideas I had. Yeah. Oh my God. I love his 10 ideas a day. I love it. And he writes them on those little, those little notepads and he just brings them with him. And it's, it is the practice.

Like in my book, I shared the seven myths, stopping people from pursuing their creative pursuits, really their passion projects. And myth number seven is inspiration will strike. We wait for inspiration, but inspiration doesn't strike. There's no, there's no muse that's going to come down from the sky and sprinkle you with fairy dust. And all of a sudden you're going to feel like doing your podcast. It's just not the way it works.

You feel like doing your podcast when you sit down and do your podcast. Like then that's what you feel like doing the podcast. And so Stephen King talks about muses because I love this idea of muses, like inspiration. And he, he talks about how his, how a muse is actually, he said, he describes it as a muse is a basement kind of guy. He lives in the basement and he's smoking his cigars and he's looking at his bowling trophies. And we have to get down into the basement.

We have to get down and when we do get down in the basement, he, the muse isn't even looking at us. He's not even paying attention to us. He just wants to know that we're there. And when we're there and we show up every day at the same time and we're doing the work, that's when, that's when the muse will come to you. The muse comes to you when you're working, not to inspire you to do the work. And I love that imagery that he used. That's really good.

Like, I mean, that's kind of, it's almost profound. Yeah. And, you know, one of the things that you were saying is that, you know, some of your, what you consider to be your lame episodes are the ones that take off. I just had Lloyd George on the show and we were talking about TikTok and how some of the ones that, that he'll take, you know, two, three, four hours to prepare for get no views. And then he'll pick up the phone and riff for 30 seconds and it gets like 11 billion views.

And so it's, it's very interesting how the, the tide almost feels like it's turning and it's becoming more of a space for creativity. Because if you're, if you're showing up fake almost, I mean, I guess, I guess that's the best way to put it is if you're faking it, everyone can tell. But if you're authentically having a good time and enjoying yourself on the mic, then it's going to be more fun, not just for you, but also for your audience. Yeah, totally.

That's, this is why I feel like you can tell. I mean, this is, that's why TikTok is very interesting platform because it truly is the people that do well on TikTok. It truly is no mask, no makeup, no fancy stuff. It's like them getting ready with their putting makeup on and doing all the things and sharing all their stories and crying and being so real because they're being so vulnerable. And that's what we look for in other people because it makes us feel human.

It makes us feel like we're not alone. It makes us feel like, oh, I'm not the only one dealing with these emotions, these feelings, these situations. And that's what I think is so fascinating about that particular platform. I think that's honestly why, like going back to creativity kind of has blown up a lot more lately because, you know, during the pandemic, we all got really lonely and we were trying to find things that could help us connect with other people.

And I honestly think that's one of the great things about podcasting is it does connect you with other people. And I've truly enjoyed all the people I've gotten to talk to because of this medium. So I guess my question to you would be, if I was starting a podcast today, what advice would you give me before I buy my microphone or even podcast host? Ooh, okay.

So if you want to start a podcast today, especially if you've thought about it for longer than you care to admit, because it's something that you keep, right? Like how many people are like, I'm going to start a podcast. And they've been saying it for like the past three years. And you're like, seriously, dude, just start your podcast.

So I would say that before you even care about the microphone or any of that stuff, which of course is important, you got to have good audio if you're going to be a podcaster.

But it would be to decide what is the name of your podcast and then just write down the first episode. What is your first episode? What are you going to talk about? Now, I will say, I was going to say three episodes, but I'm trying to keep it even that easier. But I feel like a lot of people get stuck because they overthink what it's going to be. And I think about like, if you're going to start a podcast, you're in it for the long haul. You're going to have to come up with a lot of ideas.

So like Ashley was saying, I think that James Altiger's like 10 ideas a day is a great way to kind of create that muscle. But think about what would be the first three episodes? Like, what are they going to be? And what are they going to talk about? What would I talk about? And then give yourself permission to create them knowing they are probably going to be bad. Like, they're probably not going to be the best episodes.

You're going to go back to your first episode after you've done 10, 20, 50, and look back to your first one and think, oh, my gosh, I'm so embarrassed. That was horrible. Like, what was I thinking? But it doesn't matter. So I think a lot of people get really stuck in the process of the strategy, right? Like, I have to make all of them perfect. No, because if it really is about the reps, then you do the first episode and then you learn and you get feedback.

And then you do the second episode and you learn and get feedback. And you just keep getting better and better and better. And so if you haven't started one, this is your time. You're going to create the name of it. And you are going to just create what are your first episodes? What do you feel so passionate about that you think, I need to be behind the microphone sharing this message? If you don't feel that strongly about something, you're not going to want to do it every week.

Like, you're just not going to be excited to find people to talk about that specific topic. You're not going to be excited to sit down and figure out what am I going to talk about? What am I going to write? And what am I going to say? And then again, once you do, I mean, honestly, you know, once you do a few episodes, you just kind of get hooked.

But I will say, I think it's really important, just like when people ask me, you know, how the writing process and writing a book, it is literally sitting down, giving yourself that goal. When I wrote my book, I, like a lot of people, I put it off because it seems like a big project, just like a podcast, seems like a huge project. If you think 100 episodes, that's a big project. But you can do one episode. You can do one episode. So writing the book, you can write 250 words today. That's it.

That's all you have to do is write 250 words. And then tomorrow you write 250 words. And then sometimes you sit down to write 250 words and you end up writing 500, a thousand words, just like in podcasting. Sometimes I sit down to record one podcast and I think, oh, I could do another episode because I'm on a roll and I get another episode in. But you sit down and you do the work.

So whatever habit you have to create that gets you in your seat at the same time, whether it's every week, every day, whatever it is that gives you that so that you're able to actually create.

And again, not wait for inspiration, but you're creating the inspiration by actually sitting down and making it more of a practice and process than outcome. Wow. All that was so good. And you said something that kind of made me remember. I don't remember who it was that shared this with me. And so, and I've heard it from many different people. So whoever was the starter of it, I have no idea.

But they basically were saying, like, don't worry about the fact that your first episodes are not going to be polished. And they were recommending that you go to any YouTube channel, any YouTube channel that you like. And instead of looking at their most recent video, look at their first uploads, just to see that. Yeah, the first one's the lighting's terrible. They forgot to put on makeup. They might even have a stain on their shirts. But the point is they showed up.

And so I really love all that you said about basically just keep doing it. And if you do find that you hate it, give yourself permission to quit, but try it, given the actual try. And so I like that you committed to 100 episodes, but I also like that you said, at least start with just three. Yeah, I mean, honestly, like you really might hate it. And that's totally OK. But that's what I love, too, about in creativity is we, my team always teases me because I always say everything is an iceberg.

Everything is an iceberg. There's so much, there's so many layers of what you think you want to do. There's so many layers in becoming an influencer or becoming a manager or a leader or all. There's so many other pieces that we have to consider. And we don't know because we've never been in that situation. If you've never done a podcast from the outside looking in, you think, you know, oh, it's just it looks easy. I just have to get on the microphone and say some things and put it up.

Then you're like, oh, my gosh, who hosts this thing? If you get into the weeds of it all, then you're not going to do it. But this is why I always love reminding people of what's your MVP? What's the minimum viable product? What is the minimum that I need to do in order to get this podcast out there? Fortunately, there are places like RSS.com where you can get your first your first podcast up for free. Like, that's all you have to you start there.

You start there and then you start to learn and then you start to be part of that community and you start to meet other podcasters and you learn new things. And that's what I love about communities like this. This is why it's so important for us to be connected with other people that are doing this kind of work. So that's what we have to think about when we when especially when we're first starting.

And then what's really cool is you learn so much that we actually launched another podcast or we're launching one.

It's coming out next in two weeks because I learned so much about creating for no reason and creating my podcast that I decided, hey, I actually do want to create a podcast and be more strategic about it and actually use it for business. And so I created a podcast. My my team and I we started a podcast called it's I was going to say create for no reason. No, it is called Lead with Culture.

And we interview CEOs, CFOs and executives and leaders all about company culture and team building and employee engagement. And it definitely has more of a while it's, of course, authentic and we're having authentic conversations with leaders. The strategy and purpose behind it. Definitely there's a reason for it, right? Like we're using resources. I have my team on it where we've worked. We're working with other with some people that are kind of helping us with the project.

And so it's very different. And so, again, this goes back to what is your intention. You have to get started if your intention is just to start getting into the podcasting world. That's easy enough. You have everything that you need right now to do that. We've said team a couple of times. So people listening to this are going to be like, OK, so she's monetized. Oh, no, I'm not. I'm not monetized. So fortunately, again, so we just started the podcast, Lead with Culture.

We'll see what happens like down the line with with that podcast. But with Create for No Reason, no, it went my team is the team with the business that I run, the podcast I run. That is me, my friends. I record them. I edit them. I get them up and I share them. I post them. I create the audiograms. I do all the things. I do all the things. So. But again, I could never have done that when we started. It was so overwhelming. I told Sean, I said the only reason I don't want to start a podcast

is because that stuff is a nightmare. I don't want to edit. I don't want to figure any of that stuff out. But when I started learning how to do it, I thought, you know, it's really not that bad. And now I actually I don't mind it at all. I do it. I usually do them on the weekend and I'm just kind of, you know, doing my thing on my computer. I have some music I'm listening to and maybe I'm on the I'm just like doing it. It's become just routine. It's become part of my weekly creativity.

This is what I do and this is what I get out. And so, again, it doesn't take me a lot of time, but it took me a lot of time two years ago when I had no idea what I was doing. And so you do have to put in some of the there's a lot of front like upfront work that you have to do to figure all this stuff out. Right. You have to go to like RSS.com and figure out what am I doing? What do I need? How do I get this uploaded? What happened?

I mean, again, this is why there's been millions of people that have done this before that you can connect with that you can find out how they did it. And it just makes it easier. I'm really glad you said that because that's one of the big concerns that I know a lot of people have is, you know, they hear, oh, well, it's a lot of work to start a podcast. And then it scares them away. But like you keep saying, and it's so true when you put in the reps, it gets easier.

It's kind of like how if you go to lift a, you know, 100 pound weight. Yeah, it's going to be really, really hard. But if you keep going back every single day, eventually it's going to be easy to lift it up. Yeah. And it's the girl who hasn't worked out in a while. Hey, at least you're honest about it. Yes. I mean, look, anything, anything that you start is hard, right? Like anything that you first get started on, you start a new position in a, at a company, it's going to be hard.

I mean, if you start a new, I mean, whatever you get started on is at first going to be hard. I mean, I, again, just going, I mean, the podcasting world is so interesting. And I think we can all get, there's so much information on the internet. We have access to every single thing that we go from, I'm going, so we get stuck in this passion loop, right? Like we get stuck in the passion loop. And the passion loop is basically when we say, hey, I'm going to start this podcast.

And then you think, oh my gosh, I don't have a microphone. What is it going to, what am I going to talk about? Who's going to listen? What if it's not successful? What if I don't get the downloads? Like you start making yourself, making all these excuses. And instead of what we should be doing, which is thinking about all of the benefits that we will get from starting the podcast. Like what are all the benefits? You're going to meet cool people. You're going to share your message.

You're going to change people's lives. You're going to learn new skills. You're going to have this. I mean, you're basically learning a lot when you start something new like this, that you can take, even if you decide, hey, I did five episodes and I'm done. You could absolutely use some of the skills. Or maybe what you decide is, hey, I really didn't enjoy podcasting, but I really loved this idea of getting my message out into the world. I'm going to start a blog, you know, whatever.

You might just decide something completely different, but it would never have happened had you not started the podcast. So to get out of that passion loop, we have to decide what are the action steps. What is the simplest thing that I can do? What is the simplest thing I can do is what is the episode? And I'm just going to get out my first episode. Like honestly, that's it. Because no one's watching. Like no one's waiting for you to start a podcast.

No one's waiting for you to share your message. And so even just the fact of getting it out into the world, putting it out there, there's something that shifts in your mind and your body. Even if nobody listens to it, you're like, I shared this. Like I put it out there. And then you do it again the next week. So you just have to take the next right step. Just one. Just one more step. And then learn along the way. Right?

If we tried to learn everything about all the things we started, we wouldn't start anything. It's way too overwhelming. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's so true. And the thing is, it's like, if you just start and you just start playing, you never know what's going to happen. And so do you want to keep moving forward wondering what could have been or do you just want to try to play a little? Yeah. That's right. Play. Play a little. Create for no reason. Create for no reason. That's a great segue.

Well, speaking of creating for no reason, where can people find you online?

Well, the podcast, as we've said, is Create for No Reason. You can find it on my website, KateVulman.com, or anywhere you listen to podcasts. But in order to get to know a little bit more about me and find me, KateVulman.com is the easiest place to go. And when does your book come out? Oh, I'm so excited, Ma. It's going to be on presale in the next couple of weeks. So by the end of—we're recording this in January. So January—by the end of January, it'll be out in presale.

And then released—I'm getting the release date from my publisher, hopefully, this week. So I'm very excited about it. But yeah, definitely in the next couple of—in the next two months or so, it'll be out and released. But it will be on presale in January, February. Well, we'll make sure that we leave a link to it in the show notes. Now, before we started this call, is it okay for us to say that you also said you're starting to write another book? Oh, I am.

So, you know, my author friends always tease me now because they said, we knew it. You write your first book, and then all of a sudden you already want to start your second book. So my newsletter, as you know, is called Massive Optimism. And so I'm playing around with this new book, a little bit of a new concept, and calling it Massive Optimism. And I am so excited because I've already started to kind of like do some research and build and write.

And I am—I definitely practice writing all the time. And so this book allows me to continue the writing process of just every day showing up and writing and journaling and figure out what I want to say in the book. So I really thought, Ashley, that it was going to be a lot easier to write the second book because I've already written the first one and I'm already noticing I don't really feel that way. So I don't know how other authors feel, but I'm still feeling like it's a lot of work.

I think it would probably be easier if it was still on the same subject. But if it's something that's not, then I can imagine it being a lot more like, okay, what do I say now? Yeah, it's almost like I took the first book is very much like, hey, it's this process. I shared the seven myths. It's very linear. You could kind of open it up to any chapter and you're going to get something. And in this book, I have a very different idea of what I want it to be.

And so I'm still kind of percolating on what that is. But again, it goes back to the creative process and why give yourself permission to trust your gut and just explore. And only by exploring will I know what this book is supposed to be and how it's going to come alive. And whether I publish it a year from now or five years from now, that doesn't really matter.

It just matters that I show up and I continue to kind of put these thoughts in place and figure out where I want to go with it so that I create work that I'm really proud of and proud to put out into the world. So good. So good. Well, I got to, before I can let you go, I got to ask you the one question I ask everyone before I let them off the show. And that is, what is one question I did not ask you wish I had? Oh, what is one question that you didn't ask? Um, Ashley. What is one question?

Um, maybe, maybe. Oh, my gosh. That is such a great question. Um, well, I guess I would say, I, it's so, that question, I love asking people that question, and then I totally overanalyze what I, what I should say. But my kind of initial response was something around what is, uh, what are some of, what are some of your favorite books that really inspire you and your creativity? And that. Because that is, I'm a huge reader. I absolutely love reading.

And so I am a big fan of, I've done a lot, I've done a lot of reading about writing this past year.

Uh, I read a book, uh, one of my favorite books last year that I read is called The Storyteller by Dave Grohl, who, which is a fascinating book. I'm, I'm not even a Foo Fighters fan, but just his story is, uh, phenomenal. I love Austin Kleon. I love his trilogy of books. Um, he, if, if you're listening and you're looking for, you're looking for someone who's going to push you into your creativity, steal like an artist, uh, he has a trilogy. It's steal like an artist.

It's share your work and it's keep going. And if you need some inspiration to recognize that other people are going through all this mental stuff that you go through when you're in the creative process, he is definitely someone who, um, who I would turn to. And of course I love Elizabeth Gilbert's work, Big Magic and Twyla Tharp's The Creative Habit. Um, and of course, uh, I'm a huge journaler. So, uh, I do journal, I do morning pages in the morning.

And so Julia Cameron, The Artist's Way, these are all big influences over my life over the past however many years, but I'm a huge voracious reader and learner and I, I could, I could learn about the creative process all day. It sounds like you just create all day, create and read all day. Create, read, write, you know, and repeat, and repeat. How about lead, lead, create, read, write. That's it. That's what I do. That's the, that's the plan.

A little bit of sleep in between, you know, every now and then. That's awesome. Well, Kate, I think that everything you share has been pretty awesome. And I hope that this inspires our listeners to just start a podcast because you never know what's going to come from it. You never know if you'll enjoy it. You just got to try. Just find out what you like and what you don't and play. Just play more. I love it. Well, Ashley, thank you so much.

I was so happy to get your email and I'm so glad that we had an opportunity to do this. I am too. Thanks for being here today.

Well, my fellow podcasters, we hope you enjoyed the insights, tips and ideas shared in this episode. To learn more about launching and growing your own show, head over to rss.com backslash blog. And if you're ready to launch a podcast of your own, you can get started for free with your first episode on us. Thanks for tuning in. I'm sure you're going to love it. And we'll see you next time. Bye.