Who’s Making the Most Money in Podcasting? – PCI 437

Welcome to Podcast Insider. I'm Todd Cochran, CEO of Blueberry. I'm Mike Dell, the VP of customer relations. Have you ever wondered who's raking in the big bucks in podcasting? Spoiler alert. It's not just the big networks anymore. Yep. From massive million dollar deals to indie podcasters making a solid living, we're breaking down who's cashing in and how. So stick around as we dive into the numbers, the strategies, and what's actually works for making money in podcasting today.

You're You're listening to Podcast Insider hosted by Mike Dell, Todd Cochran, and Mackenzie Bennett from the Blueberry team, bringing you weekly insights, advice, and insider tips and tricks to help you start, grow, and thrive through podcasting. With all the support of your team here at Blueberry Podcasting, welcome. Let's dive in. Mike, as you well know, monetizing a podcast in 2025 isn't

as simple as slapping ads on your episode and calling it a day. Some revenue streams today are thriving while others, well, not so much. And today, we're breaking down what's working, what's fading, what podcasters focus on to actually make money in 2025. And, again, this is a moving target. So Oh, yeah. It changes all the time. And there's kind of a then versus now. You know? And, you know, podcast monetization is evolved from basic ads to mix of diversified

income streams. And I think more podcasters are using multiplatform revenue models, social media, newsletters, value for value, regular ads, pre rolls. It just kinda goes on and on. Traditional sponsorships, just not really happening as much as it used to. Now in certain niches, they'll have a a sponsor that really aligns with the show, but, you know, that's getting harder and harder to do, these days. And sometimes you have to run eight different ads during a month if you're

doing eight different episodes. You don't have the same sponsor for the whole for the whole month. And, of course, the pay to play model subscriptions and membership is rising, but it doesn't really work for every podcast and there's a lot of reasons for that. But I guess we should talk about who's making the most money. Big networks versus independent creators versus niche podcasters, and I think the networks probably still have an advantage.

Yeah. Of course. The bigger shows are gonna attract the the advertisers, but, you know, there's more to making money than than advertising too, which we'll talk about later on. Yeah. I think it's important that we all realize that that the end goal of a show may not be, you know, dollars, yen, 1, whatever your currency may be.

There's a variety of ways to but if we go down and look at the basics, you know, at CPM based ads versus dynamic ad insertion, they're kinda tied together now, you know, because CPM based ads mostly are DAI, our digital audio inserted so that the when the ad hits its volume, in other words, if you've contracted for x thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of deliveries once you've hit that number, the d e I tool can pull the ad out and stick a new one in.

So or restitch it back together so there's no ad there whatsoever. But simple fact still applies that 90% and all and maybe we haven't talked about this a long time, but

90% of podcasts globally deliver 90% of their lifetime downloads within the first ninety six hours. So not everyone needs to use d a I because, you know, you're not gonna deliver that many downloads after that first month. Some do. Those 10% are really truly, you know, in a great position. But Yeah. There are some long tail shows that, you know, I can I can think of one that, you know, she started way back when, and, you know, her older shows are getting darn near

as many downloads as her newer shows? Yeah. Yeah. And, again, if you have that long tail and you have that ability then DAI is definitely for you. But you can run CPM based ads without DAI if you have a show that, you know, kind of looks like a hockey stick that is laid tip up and, you know, if your downloads kinda do, we go up and then go down and be pretty flat. Why use DAI? Just bake the ad in and and let it run. But brands in 2025 are looking for more niche specific partnerships.

They're obviously looking for measurable engagement over download numbers, you know, the response rate. How many people are engaging? How many likes? How many, comments? These types of things And they're definitely looking for long term relationships versus one off ad placement. But at the same time, that one off ad placement may be only once a month. You might only get one ad from advertiser x y z. Mhmm. So, but the landing of sponsor hasn't changed much.

No. You you you definitely need to try to be brand friendly, whatever that means. You know? It depends on the brand too. You know? A a a show that, is explicit content, there are advertisers

that that do want that. So it's not like one size fits all for brand advertising. It's it's all about, you know, does the brand align with the type of show? You can also, you know, negotiate value based deals, not just CPM. So, you know, you can you can negotiate. You know, if I bring you x number of sales, then I get this much money or something like that. It's the deal is completely up to the advertiser and the, you know, podcaster.

And when it comes to those brand buys, in other words, if a brand buy would be like a Ford or a GEICO or someone like that, they're looking for that engagement because they're not necessarily able to determine if you drove someone in to buy a new vehicle or an insurance policy, but they're looking for engagement within the content, to see that they actually, you know, guarantee that they heard the ads. So that's looking at your social media engagement.

But, of course, they're always fall back to your listener data to showcase audience loyalty. And, again, you know, for small shows, you can land affiliate sponsorships or direct brand deals. It's all about the audience connection. You know, we're working with code ADX, and there's some great deals there that align specifically with shows that you you can find an affiliate sponsorship that you can do very well on.

So, you know, don't forget if you're a smaller podcast, don't forget about those affiliate sponsorships or, again, even those direct brand deals. If you are a car show or you are a show on a specific topic, you you would make a good candidate for a direct brand deal. Sure. You know, I yeah. Especially car shows. Again, you know, any niche that, you know, that would align with a big brand might

be the perfect candidate for that. Another way people are, making money these days are, premium content subscriptions. Apple has this subscription model that you can do just through Apple. We, of course, have premium podcasting, which you can run through everybody else or most everybody else. That may be a way to go. You know? One of the questions is our listeners actually paying for premium content. Well, you know, I I just look at my TV watching. I pay for the stuff I want, and I

don't pay for cable. I don't pay for you know? So I have a, you know, Netflix account, a YouTube premium account, and a couple other things. And throwing a couple podcasts in there that you really, really like might be, the way to go. You know, Apple has it. Patreon, Spotify, Substack, you know, Blueberry, all that direct monetization. And it could be

just to support your show, but, you know, you could give them premium content like bonus episodes. You know? So, say, you have you do your four episodes a month, and you give them a fifth episode that is exclusive to the premium. Or if you're doing ads in your show, you could do a ad free version of your show for the people that pay you. All kinds of, different ways of incentivizing people to subscribe.

And I think too, if you offer a subscription with an another offering, whether it be a newsletter, a live q and a, something special, that really incentivizes people to do that. But definitely what's not working is generic paywalls with no real incentive. You have to have an incentive for people to subscribe. And also there's subscription fatigue out there. Too many platforms are asking for money. But in this case, it's really not a platform asking

for money. It's an individual. So there's a few podcasters that I know that are on Patreon that I support, specifically on Patreon. There's a couple that are on Apple premium that I support. And again, this is content that I listen to on a glee basis that's a not miss for me. If it's a not miss and they are looking for support, I'm more than willing to get up and and support the show because I want the content to continue. Why? Because I'm getting value. You know, I'm getting value out of that.

And the most successful part of the value for value model. You know? It doesn't necessarily mean streaming Bitcoin. It could be Right. Anything PayPal donation. Sports a show. Yeah. The most successful scripture models are tied to strong community engagement and and not just extra comment, but our live events, are they worth the worth the effort? You know, the rise of the hybrid podcast events, live streaming and in person experience is that, you know, made a bit of an impact.

So I think if you have something fun and you're it's it's an event where they're paying for that, you know, there's an option there. Of course, there's there's different type of

monetizable events too. There's ticketed live podcast tapings, and I think you have to have a very big show. Yeah. Yeah. And you have to have a pretty big audience to get people to travel because, you know, they're not all gonna be, you know, right in your area. Yeah. And if you have a, you know, kind this is why

comedians have done so well. They've been able to go to, comedy venues all across the country and what ends up happening then is, you know, a smattering of their fans come in and buy tickets to to the comedy show or more often now I see individuals doing virtual workshops, AMAs and q and a's. And, of course, if you have an event where your fans are gonna go to, it might be all have a shared interest. In other words, I I just go back to the analogy of a car show again.

If you have the ability to have a a meetup at a trade show or car event or something like that where you have a separate meet and greet and have a small fee for the tenants, I I think you might do do well here. But some podcast events flop. Yeah. For sure. You know, you you overestimate how many people are gonna show up. And so you rent this big venue and, you know, 12 people show up. That's not gonna work out well. And,

again, high production costs versus actual revenue. So, you know, start small. Merch. Here's another, thing. And this is real popular with YouTubers, but, podcasters as well. You can sell branded items and shirts, mugs, stickers, all that kind of stuff. And, and that works if your fan base is very engaged. You could, do some creative merch, custom journals, soundbite NFTs. NFTs still a thing? Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. I think it's it's kinda come and went a little bit in itself.

Right. Right. So, but what's not working is, you know, general merch with no brand connection, you know, selling products to an audience that really isn't engaged. You know, you don't yeah. You you have to judge your audience. So, again, know your audience. But I do think that the print on

demand services make it easier than ever to sell without high upfront cost. So, you know, that that way you don't have to put in inventory. There are companies out there that will, handle all your merch sales too if you're you're up a certain volume. You know? And they run contests. You know?

This this one big outfit I know of, if you're, doing merch through them, what they'll do is, every once in a while, for every $5, you get an entry to win something, and it's usually something rather big, you know, like a a vehicle in the case of the one I know. Wow. And, yeah. So, you know, they'll they'll give away I think the last giveaway was a a Corvette z r one or something. You know? It was it was a big deal. And so every you know, that sells a

lot of merch. That definitely sells a lot of merch. First, the some of the best selling podcast merch is inside joke driven. In other words, if there's something your fans get that maybe someone else won't that will drive conversation, you know, that that does really, really, really well. And, of course, the future podcast monetization, you know, I still believe that your audience, if they value your content, can be the source of the biggest revenue for smaller shows and maybe even bigger shows.

So don't discount having your your fans support your show with direct donations. But, you know, the question is, are ad supported podcast sustainable? And what emerging revenue streams should podcasters experiment with? I think on the ad supported side, it's gonna continue.

But it's been a weird kind of a weird time over the last couple of years where, you know, a a small number shows get a high percentage of the ads and everyone else is ignored and or the platform, YouTube and or Spotify is monetizing around your content and you're getting nothing. So, you know, you if you get to pick wisely, where you want your show to be and how you monetize. But the emerging revenue streams

the podcasters could experiment with is consulting within your own niche and stuff that you that you are discussing. A book. Write your own book, you know, from the content. And I think, maybe even integrated commerce, shop while you listen, have some sort of like Code ADX, have some sort of offer in the show that people will will go support. Yeah. I you know, think about this one, and it's not listed in our notes here.

But, you know, what about if you're in business doing something else and your show could be sponsored by that business. So it could be around that business. You know, our friend Gary, he really, took that to the to the higher level on a couple shows, a couple businesses he runs. And and, you know, that that's you know, he didn't make money because of his pod or he didn't make money from talking on the microphone.

He made money by, you know, talking about the topic and promoting his business in that field. Yeah. He was, at the beginning, he was selling, girls softball bats. Yeah. And his show was all about girls softball. Softball. Yeah. And, and he and he sold literally tens of thousands of Beryl softball bats because he was the man. You know, he was the one that he was talking about all the different bats and you know and actually covering, the games and industry where those bats are being used. So it

was brilliant move on his part. So I think the key to making money is diversification.

You can't rely on just one revenue stream. What is in today maybe out tomorrow. There's content that, people have built wonderful businesses with and then a little bit of changing of the tide in the way people think and all of a sudden that content is much much harder to monetize. So having that diversification is really really critical. I think that, that is the biggest takeaway here. But again, I I go back to what I said earlier. The value of your podcast is more than monetization.

The value is the people you connect with, the opportunities that are afforded you because of your podcast. Maybe that maybe all of a sudden you're on a speaking circuit. Maybe, you have written, a best selling book. Maybe you have now become the authority on, you know, category x y z. Maybe it's increased your people walking through the door or calling you for business.

These are the ongoing bigger values of podcasting, I think, beyond monetization because I think, Mike, you'll agree that when people get so focused on just advertising, They forget about all these other opportunities and what podcasting is making available to them. You might just get a new career out of it like I did. Right. I'm only here at Blueberry because I started a podcast way back when and, you know, those kind of opportunities do come up. They do all the time. And, again, I go

back to the story. We never know who's listening. You could have someone that's very influential in your category space listening to love your content. And the next thing you do is you're getting a call saying, hey. I'd love to have your resume. I think you'd make a great member for our team. That happens all the time. So I think this is the the biggest takeaway for me is from a monetization strategy. It's not just the money. It's the opportunities.

And, I think we lose A lot of people just do this for a hobby. You know, they you know, so don't forget that. I mean, it it's it can be fun, and it can be informative, you know, to you. You know? The best way to learn about something is do a podcast about it because you're gonna engage an audience, and they're gonna train you know, teach you about it and all the research you're gonna do. So, you

know, sometimes, again, it's not about the money. Yeah. So what's been your best or worst monetization strategy? How have you used your show to either one monetize or to, like I referred to, improve your life, business, standing, whatever it may be, let us know on social or send us a memo or send us an email and we might feature your story in a future episode. I think, we wanna hear from you on your

various ways. I'm astounded many times when people tell us what what their podcast has done or how it's changed their life. There's literally thousands and thousands of stories and I'm sure you have one. Let us know or maybe you're developing one and we'd like to know that. You got something? Let us know. Thanks for listening to Podcast Insider. You can, find the show notes over at podcastinsider.com. We'll see you next week. Thanks for joining us. Come back next week.

And in the meantime, head to podcastinsider.com for more information, to subscribe, share, and read our show notes. To check out our latest suite of services and learn how Blueberry can help you leverage your podcast. Visit blueberry.com. That's Blueberry without the e's. We couldn't afford the e's.