Optimizing Podcast Length: Balancing Depth and Engagement – PCI 425

Welcome to today's episode of Podcast Insider. I'm Tod Cochrane, founder of Blueberry Podcasting. I'm Mackenzie Bennett, marketing specialist at Blueberry. Every podcaster asked how long their episodes should be. And today, we clear up the pros and cons of shorter and longer episodes.

You're listening to Podcast Insider, a weekly podcast bringing insights, advice, and insider tips and tricks to help you start, grow, and thrive through podcasting with the support of your team here at Blueberry Podcasting. Welcome. Let's dive in.

One thing I've always said in regards to this subject is that you should not focus on a specific time like of your episode. You really need to decide what works for you and your audience and I guess the main takeaway is don't waste our time. Give them great information and and lean in. But you're gonna definitely hear a lot of different suggestions out there. Pro and con to long and short. But I think we should also understand that some of the most famous and AKA most

popular podcasts are super long. 2, 3 hours. But let's just talk a little bit of the pros of shorter podcast episodes

and the potential out there. Starting off with pros of shorter podcast episodes is higher engagement. So particularly, I am this person, I think, a lot of the time. The shorter the episode, the more in tune I'm gonna be. So short, digestible episodes reduce the drop off and fit into people's busy schedules nowadays. Where I think I'm almost the opposite. It's almost like I just get started and the show is ending and I always want more sometimes on shorter

podcasts. I think it's really a personal preference as well as as a listener. You know, consistency, I think no matter is is that is the thing to consider. And I know folks that do short shows that take as much time doing the short show as a long show. But you would think that production time would be would be shorter. I I think it all depends on again, how for a better word, if you're if you're really super, you know, if you do a lot of super editing,

you you may not save time. But for me, I know shorter episodes when I've done them, definitely shorten my production time because I don't do too much post production. It does mean if you're gonna use those to repurpose them, that it's probably gonna be easier. You know, longer content might be better for more frequent repurposing if you have, you know, a a variety of different ways that you wanna use it. But in general,

the shorter, the easier. So you can specifically use this for social media clips and do, like, really mini episodes to attract new listeners, kinda like a teaser episode type thing. I think that's probably become more popular as social media has become more popular or more important to finding audiences nowadays.

Also, shorter episodes could potentially not let your audience get to know you as much, but at the same time, it can allow you to be super focused and having really this tight concise message because you can't spend a lot of time on personality. You have to get in with the content and get out if you want to stay, you know, stay in with content

being short. You know, my introduction to my show to get through all of that and the just the jibber jabber I have with the audience before I even get to, you know, the first piece of content that I'm going to share with them is usually like 3 to 5 minutes. And if you're doing a short show, that might be 25% of your entire podcast. So you definitely have to be to be focused and get those key points out. Yep. Moving on to the cons of shorter

podcast episodes. The first one is limited depth, and that is that we're saying right there is kind of what we mean. With the shorter amount of time, you are restricted in exploring complex topics fully to the extent that you might want to. It's instead of, like, a full in-depth episode about this complex, you know, situation. It might just be here are the facts that we know right now about this, something like that.

And it could be also lower perceived value in some genres, And you could lack that immersive experience expected in storytelling genres. But I think, to be honest with you, I think all of us that are not original storytellers and we haven't we don't have a media background. We really don't fully know the art a k a of storytelling. So I think it's something that develops over time and probably something we should do a topic

on. It depth at some point is talking about, you know, storytelling itself as a strategy. But for sure, you know, doing that shorter content to maybe that lower perceived value. And also some reduced monetization opportunities. You you have the ability to, in a longer show, to have more ad spots. But in a shorter show, you know, take for example, Grammar Girl. You know, they get they're

in and out in 5 minutes. Mhmm. So, you know, that's a very short, very concise show and boom, just one small ad spot of maybe 20 seconds. They can't spend a minute and a minute and a half on the ad and then only have 3 and a half or 4 minutes of content. So again, it depends on the length of your show. Definitely fewer ad opportunities. Something else is that you are gonna have to be focused on creating

content all the time. So frequent content planning, you are required to have consistent topic ideas and probably in a, you know, a shorter amount of time if a lot of the shows that do shorter episodes do them more frequently. So you can potentially lead yourself into burnout rather quickly. We changed how we did Podcast Insider about a year or so, maybe 2 years ago at this point, and now we have these more detailed and concise shorter episodes,

which is great. And we think, you know, it seems that you guys like it, but it also means that we're like, what do we need to talk about? Didn't we talk about that 2 months ago? Oh, no. We did. So I guess we'll think we'll think of something else. So it definitely can take up brain space very quickly where you're like, I'm all out of ideas. And I think too, again, if it depends on your goal of your show. If you really wanna have that

audience interactivity where they know you really well, Maybe it's an idea to go a little longer. But let me talk a little bit about the pros of longer podcast episodes. Really, this in-depth content allows for this comprehensive storytelling, deep dives and detailed discussions. You know, you'll take you may some people like Joe Rogan, some people don't. But he he definitely spends 3 hours digging into his guest backgrounds and really gets deep

into the story. But he's also got a big staff to help him with that pre production work to get those questions and topics and really his his game plan together for for every episode. So it's not like he's going into it cold, but he also has, in a great way, like, and he's a great interviewer. I always had thought that Howard Stern was also a great interviewer. He would get people to say things that they would not say

otherwise. So you can get into that in-depth content and I guess, again, there's sometimes you can waste people's time too. So you got to be careful. Are you boring people? I find myself, if I'm listening to something and the story is going too long and it's again get to the point. And you know, if it's something if it's obvious where you're headed,

get to the point. Get there. I I will admit I am not a fan of like a stream of consciousness podcast where you're just kinda having this long conversation. Like, I definitely will lose interest. I am more so a fan of a a storytelling

of, like, here's the scenario. Here's what happened. Here's what we think about it. But it it's like that concise topic instead of just we went on a tangent about this and then moved on to this and then moved on to this. But, also, I think I've just moved on to, you know, really sticking to a specific host at this point. One of the things that we have on here for pros is a stronger listener host connection.

So, like, the longer the episode is, the more connected you might feel to to the host and as the host to the listeners. So it really gives you time to bring out your personality and any humor you might have or, you know, just the the time and energy that you've put into it to prepare so people can really feel that through the episode a lot of the time. I do wanna back up a second, though.

But if you have something important to say and you feel that you have you're capturing the audience's attention and keeping their attention, that that's the important piece here. It's when, you know, and we've all heard this when we listen to content. You're like, come on. Come on. You you know, you we talked around this. We don't need a punch line anymore. Just, you know, give us give us the the details. And and then we can have some backstory.

So I really think that people need to work on that pretty significantly across the entire space. But at the same time, you can have a flexible content structure. You can have multiple segments. So you don't just have to have one story that's long. Mhmm. Again, you can have multiple segments. And I think for my show, because I'm doing a new show, it's easy. I've got 30 segments. And sometimes I spend 2 minutes on something and sometimes I spend 15 seconds.

So it really because it doesn't need more explanation. It's like, okay. Such and such happened. X y and z. You're done. You don't have to have this in-depth analysis. But then there's other pieces. Well, what does this mean and what are the ramifications and what's gonna happen? So by having the ability to have, excuse me, multiple segments, it really it really helps keep the show moving along. And I I think a higher retention for loyal fans.

I think that if you have this long form content where you can keep people listening in and yeah. The the task I always tell is sometimes I'll listen to a show while I'm working. And if I pause and I'm not typing, I know that that show has got my engagement and probably worthy of a listen later. Whereas some shows, I can just kinda listen to the background almost like a radio show.

And they they're definitely not as engaged and they're just kind of a a bit of noise that pick up a thing here or there. So just think about that when you're when you want to retain listeners, are you keeping them engaged? Are you fostering a sense of community? Are you getting feedback? Are you encouraging word-of-mouth growth? Are they commenting on the show? Are you giving them a reason to comment on the show? So I think that has a big, big part of this longer form content.

Just real quick before we move on to the cons of the longer episodes. I think we skipped talking about when you do have these longer episodes, you have the opportunity for

more monetization. So the longer the episode, the more ad spots. Engaged listeners are likely to support premium content. So like Todd said, you know, as long as people feel like these loyal fans are dedicated and feel like they have this sense of community, they're gonna be okay with the additional monetization opportunities. And again, the some of the cons of longer podcast episodes is, you know, higher production

time and cost. So if you're doing a 20 minute show twice a week, you know, the recording of the show is 20 minutes 20 minutes and then whatever your production time is. But if you're doing a 90 minute show, you know, obviously, you're gonna have a longer production time in just recording. Cost can go up a little bit. Again, depending on how much storage you need as from your hosting provider.

But I think most shows based on encoding we're seeing are are not seeing huge increases in the cost because of the the size of the show. But maybe it's just because your your editor, if you have one, has having to spend more time. And of course, you have that risk of losing listeners partway through due to the extended length. So again, you got to keep them entertained. It's and as much as we want to say this, we have to be entertaining a little bit.

And if you're not, well, you know, it it this is gonna be like the snooze button. People are gonna hit the snooze button and go somewhere else. That is something, though, that you can keep an eye on with our blueberry stats.

The retention rate graph with the advanced stats is gonna tell you when people are dropping off. You know? It it's one of those ones that might hurt to look at initially if if you've never really seen this or thought about this before, but, hopefully, you're hopefully, you're okay. But if you're not, you know, take a good hard look at at your show and decide what can I do to wrap this up quicker or in a more sufficient way? And, you know, how do I fix this?

One thing that I found is the show that Rob and I do for the new media show. Every once in a while, we'll kind of like hit a wall. It'll be like, hour 15 into what's normally an hour 30 minute show. I'll be like, Rob, it's time to wrap it up. You know, we've we're we're kind of playing for time here and we're wasting people's time. So There's no reason to go to 1:30. Right. And so there's a there's times when you will just talk a subject out and you'll be done and,

well, then wrap it up. Mhmm. There's no rule that says you need to go to the full to the full length. There are no rules. There are no rules in podcasting. But one of the ones that we also have for a con of longer episodes is that it could be intimidating for new listeners. The longer the episode, the more it can deter a newcomer who might prefer a shorter, easier, you know, easier to try, easier to give it a listen, that first time content.

I definitely have started doing this, I think, since I have no commute to work anymore. When I'm looking at a new show and I see that it's longer than, you know, 35 minutes, I'm like, do I really wanna listen to this? And it's not because I don't wanna listen to the long episode necessarily. It's just I'm like, what am I gonna do for a half hour that is going to make sure that I listen to this whole thing on a regular basis

with this show? Like, if it's if it's a if it's a one off episode of a show that I've never listened to before or even, like, one that I do frequently listen to, I'll probably do it. But if it's, you know, 40, 45 an hour an hour plus that I would be listening to on a regular basis for a new show that I might wanna, like, add to my to my playlist, I'm really gonna think about if I wanna do that because I'm like, I don't what am I gonna have when do I have the time to actually listen to this?

And I guess the main thing too is, you know, again, don't press yourself to go the full length that you needed to go like I said earlier. And you know, maybe a little bit challenging to find shareable snippets as well. Because if you're doing long form and the conversation goes on for a long time, it may be harder to find that 60 second snippet to grab. Whereas in a shorter show, because you are very tight,

maybe it again, it is easier. So, I mean, it's just one of those things to consider when you're wanting to get ready to promote the show on on social. Right. Well,

Go ahead. One of those things is kinda filler content where, like you said, with you and Rob, you're like, we're at 1:15. And and at this point, we're just gonna be repeating what we've already said in this episode. It's gonna be less engaging towards the end, which is gonna be off putting to people as well. So so avoid that filler content if you can. It's just there is a higher probability of running into that issue the longer the episode. Alright. Let us know what you think.

And short or long, what do you prefer to do? What's your experience? Did we miss something? We'd love to hear your feedback at any time on any of these episodes.

There are no wrong answers of how long your podcast should or should not be. Do what feels comfortable to you and what makes your audience happy. Thanks for joining us. Come back next week. And in the meantime, head to podcastinsider.com for more information, to subscribe, share, and read our show notes. To check out the latest suite of services and learn how Blueberry can help you leverage your podcast, visit blueberry.com. That's blueberry without the e's because we can't afford them.