Trump Threatens Genocide

We're living in a time when politicians can seem to lead. You don't get a second shot at making the right call on taking your country to work. or agitate. If you want to know what's happening behind the scenes in Westminster, and Get the best political insight the Guardian has to offer. Then listen to Politics Weekly with me, Pippa Kara me, Kieran Stacy. Weekly, wherever you get your podcasts, every Monday.

Welcome back to Pod Save the World. I'm Tommy Vitor. Roads. Uh so this is actually the second time we're recording the introduction to the show. Uh moments ago we wrapped our recording of the initial episode and then Trump put a truth social statement announcing a two week extension on his threat to destroy all the infrastructure.

in Iran, which is obviously a good thing. Uh, we're very happy about that, but it does mean we're coming right back into the studio to re-record the top of this for you guys, um, to make sure this is current. So here's what Trump just wrote on Truth Social. This is a verbatim. Based on conversations with Prime Minister Shabaz Sharif and Field Marshal Azim Maneer of Pakistan, and wherein they requested that I hold off the destructive force.

being sent tonight to Iran and sub subject to the Islamic Republic of Iran agreeing to the complete, immediate and safe opening of the Strait of Hammuz, I agree to suspend the bombing and attack of Iran for a period of two weeks.

This will be a double-sided ceasefire. So you think it's like tape? Um The reason for doing so is that we have already met and exceeded all military objectives and are very far along with a definitive agreement concerning long-term peace with Iran and peace in the Middle East. We received a ten point proposal from Iran and believe it is a workable basis on which to negotiate. Almost all of the various points of past contention have been agreed to between the United States and Iran.

But a two pe two week period will allow the agreement to be finalized and consummated consummated. On behalf of the United States of America as president and also representing the countries of the Middle East, it is an honor to have this long term problem close to resolution. Thank you for the attention to this matter.

President Donald J. Trump. I've also seen some additional reporting, Ben, that uh Israel has agreed to this short term ceasefire. Uh okay, so just a few thoughts for me, I'll throw it over to you. Uh who writes this shit for him? Like what what is this faux legalistic Weird nonsense language. I d I don't get it. Again. Obviously this is good news. Like nothing good could have or would have come from some like genocidal spasm of violence.

on Tuesday night from Donald Trump and and Pete Hegzath. And I'm truly grateful that Trump uh I'm genuinely surprised that Iran would agree to opening the straight up hormuz for two weeks and kind of less Let's see. I uh that's a right. Like put a pin in this one, we'll see if that actually happens because it does lessen their economic and political pressure on Trump. Again, though, it would be a good thing because.

as as much as I like I I I want them to open the straight up for moves. I don't want people in Asia not to be able to farm and like drive. Um I don't believe a word Trump says here about the US and Iran being quote very far along. on a long term peace plan or the problem is cross to the to resolution, I guess we'll see. Uh finally, like later in the show I say that I heard from someone that the Pakistani led talks

We're uh more for show and we're kinda bullshit. I guess I should revise and amend that take if they help facilitate getting this done. That's a good thing. Uh, but what do you make of this this truth social post pen?

Well, it's great news. Uh it again, it doesn't change anything we said though, because threatening genocide. even if it was part of a madman diplomacy strategy is just as morally abhorrent. Um I a a few thoughts on Mike. W number one, I'm genuinely curious about what the Iranian

you know, we'll have to hear from them. But like who is he negotiating with in Iran? Does whoever he's negotiating with in Iran have the ability to control the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, who are the ones that control the Strait of Four Moose?

What does he mean by oh he says a full opening of the Strait of Hormuz. I I I'm very curious if that's true. Um where are they gonna let all traffic through there, whether they're gonna continue to meter it and charge a toll, cause they've turned this into a toll. And if it's been mined, like who's gonna get rid of the mine?

Exactly. This is much more complicated than just saying, Oh, the problem's solved. I created this problem by, you know, launching a war that closes straight and now I've solved the problem and ended a war and now I've ended nine wars. Like, no, it's that's all bullshit. Um

So the lot of questions about whether the Iranians have agreed to this in the short term. I mean, they've clearly agreed to something, um, but whether that that's the full opening of the strait, like remains uh to be seen. I'm also curious, Tommy, how much pushback he got today? Um, threatening genocide, I think probably got the attention of Republican lawmakers. It probably got the attention of world leaders.

Uh we don't know what calls were made to Trump today. Yeah. I also genuinely have been wondered, and I we didn't I actually didn't say this on the pod, so I'm glad I've whether the military would follow his orders. I think there's a non zero chance that, you know, Petexeth was giving them the target list or whatever of civilian infrastructure and that I don't know if it's Dan Cain or somebody would just I there's

It's possible that they're like, We won't do it. Yeah, we won't do it. Because you know what? That like hopefully there's still some honor in the US mil I mean, hopefully I believe there is. I I just know they've been purging generals. Um So it's also possible that military is like, we're not gonna do this. Uh and and so he kind of scrambled to to do this, right? We don't know. We'll see. I'm sure some of it will leak out.

Um, so it's a reprieve, but it doesn't solve these underlying questions. And and again, we talk later in the show about the the fundamentally diplomatic questions about. the Iranian nuclear program, about the war in Lebanon, which is still ongoing, uh you know, about the Strait of Hormuz and whether the IRG C is gonna control it and charge a toll, whether i it's going to fully reopen. So

This is not like the some victory of of diplomacy yet. It's only like yet another delay in Trump's threats, you know. Yeah. And like the look the idea that these objectives that the war's objectives are close to complete is crazy. I mean again the

That's crazy, that's bullshit. The key priority is supposed to be the highly enriched uranium, the nine hundred pounds of it. It's still sitting. Yeah. The regime change war has has gone from one uh homine to a younger Hamine who's even more hardline. Uh Trump says that uh, you know, Iran's ballistic missiles have been totally destroyed. Uh, we've seen intelligence reports that suggest So like I just think that's a good thing. And they might have just launched some at Israel too.

Oh really? Okay. That's wonderful. Yeah, so I I just I have a very hard time believing that BB Netanyahu um is going to be ready to end this war. Uh, Trump might want to find an off ramp in save face because he is, I think, looking at polling and realizes that his presidency is.

uh slowly withering and dying before his eyes. But as we talk about later in the episode, the Iranians have now found a pretty remarkable source of leverage and possible revenue for them. And a lot of people would argue Look, in in many ways they're doing way worse now, the the regime, but they're making more money now off oil sales.

uh they have more power now by finding this choke point in the Surrator Hammu. So there's there's all these structural challenges when you look at, you know, the Iranian demands and the US demands uh for each other that are so, so far apart. It just doesn't I feel like we're close to ending this war.

And there's one other thing that I think is really important in that post that, you know, might fly under the radar. He refers to the Islamic Republic of Iran. Not Iran. The Islamic Republic is the regime. Like it it's a de facto recognition of the Islamic Republic. That's the system with a supreme leader with the IRGC.

That is Donald Trump accepting that the people he's gonna be dealing with are the same regime, even if he killed the Supreme Leader. And and that, trust me, like as someone who's worked on this and we were very careful in the Obama administration about when we said Iran or Islamic Republic. Um the that's a concession uh that he's making, which again is just a bowing to reality. Amen. Um but you know, this this is no longer a regime change war.

Yeah. It's a double sided ceasefire. Like uh Whatever that is. Yeah. Like the tape I used to put on my hockey sticks. Uh, okay, Ben. Well, unfortunately for the world, uh I just I really don't think this war is close to over. There remain all these huge, you know, political and structural problems that could lead to the war escalating.

dragging out for a very long time. Uh all those problems still exist. We cover all the big picture questions in this episode. Just know that we recorded most of it uh before this most recent truth social post announcing the two week extension. um on the war crimes, you know, bonanza tonight.

So there will be times where we kind of sound anxious and uncertain about what might happen on Tuesday night. Yeah, we play a clip. We play a clip from Brett Bear where he is assured by Donald Trump that there will be no extension this time. Yeah. Uh we should have known at the time that it was bullshit.

It's useful'cause it shows you the chaos. It shows you the chaos. It shows you that Trump lies and that Fox News is just his useful idiots who will repeat whatever he says. But here's what we cover in this episode. So we're gonna start with Trump's threat to commit genocide on the country uh of Iran, literally. We'll explain the consequences of that. We'll explain the consequences of these proposed strikes on all kinds of civilian Iranian infrastructure.

what they would mean legally, morally, and strategically. Uh, we'll give you the highlights of some extraordinary new reporting by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan at the New York Times about how Trump decided to go to war with Iran. Uh, then we'll listen to some clips from an equally incredible monologue from Tucker Carlson where he really firmly breaks with Trump over the war with Iran on on a deep moral level and talks about why he is concerned that Trump

could end up using will end up using nuclear weapons. It's very a conversation that is very important and worth having. Uh, then we'll talk about all the talks and the secret side deals that are happening with the Iranians. Obviously, we just talked about some of the fruits of some of those, but we're kind of looking at signs of things happening diplomatically.

that could end lead to a permanent end game, a permanent end to the war and a permanent path out of this mess. And then we're gonna talk about these enormously consequential elections coming up in Hungary and how insane it is that Vice President J D Vance is in fucking Hungary on a Tuesday in April doing a campaign event for Victor Orban Ben. I've s I've truly like never heard anything like this in the middle of a war, middle of a conflict.

Um, he, you know, in the middle of a political crisis for the White House, JD Vance is over in Hungary. So that is bonkers. We did not have a guest today because we just wanted to go really long on around stuff. And I'm just getting back from vacation and so we'll pick that back up next week.

Podsave the world is brought to you by Haya. As parents, we worry about the long term effects that ultra processed foods have on our kids. That's why Haya was created, to provide a real solution and a market full of vitamins that are basically candy. While some brands pack up to seven grams of sugar and petroleum base dyes into every serving, Haya takes the opposite approach, zero sugar, zero gummy additives, just clean nutrition.

Working alongside pediatricians and nutrition scientists, Hayek created a superfood chewable vitamin that packs a blend of twelve organic fruits and vegetables plus fifteen essential vitamins and minerals into every dose.

The ingredient list is clean, non-GMO, vegan, dairy-free, allergy-free, gelatin-free, nut-free. They've thought of everything. Designed for kids two and up, high-ship straight to your door. You get this awesome reusable bottle with your first order, and then they send refills every month. One less thing to remember at the store.

As a father of small kids, I know how hard it can be to get them to take their vitamins. The great thing about Haya is they love them. They taste good, they're fun to take, and you know that they're good for them and that they're healthy and they're not packed with sugar.

And here's something that every parent needs to hear. If getting your kid to eat vegetables feels like an impossible daily battle, Haya's kids daily greens plus superfoods is a total game changer. It's basically like chocolate milk stuffed with veggies. It's greens powder that's packed with fifty-five whole food source ingredients. Just mix one scoop with milk or milk alternative and watch them actually enjoy something that's secretly fueling their growing bodies.

We've worked out a special deal with Haya for their best selling children's vitamin. Receive fifty percent off your first order. To claim this deal, you must go to Hayahealth.com slash world. This deal is not available on their regular website. Go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H dot com slash world and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

Pod Save the World is brought to you by Select Quote. Most people pay too much for too little life insurance. Worse yet, if your coverage is through your job and you're laid off, you can be left with nothing. Don't leave your family's future to chance. Head to Select Quote to find the right coverage at the right price.

For over forty years, SelectQuo has been one of the most trusted brokers in insurance, helping more than two million Americans secure over$700 billion in coverage. Their mission is simple define you the right insurance policy for your unique needs. Unlike other one size fits all life insurance companies, select quotes licensed agents work for you. In as little as 15 minutes, they'll compare policies from top-rated carriers to find you.

the best fit for your health and your budget. And they work for you for free. No medical exam, no problem. They partner with providers offering same-day coverage up to$2 million without needing to visit your doctor. And if you do have pre existing health conditions, SelectQuo partners with companies that offer policies for people with conditions like high blood pressure, diabetes, or heart disease.

Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than fifty percent at selectquote.com slash world. Save more than fifty percent on term life insurance at selectquote.com slash world today to get started. That's selectquote.com slash world.

When there's breaking news, uh Ben and I often uh record things where that we just jump on the Pod Safe the World YouTube to put up a bonus really quickly. So please subscribe to Podsafe the World on YouTube so you don't miss any of those. Also, if you want to support everything we're doing here at Crooked Media.

and help us push back on the pro war propaganda from Fox News and the Daily Wire and so many others. Please consider becoming a friend of the pod subscribers. You'll get ad-free episodes. You'll get tons of bonus episodes and bonus content. And it's really just the best way to help us grow as an independent progressive media company. So go to crooked.com slash friends to learn more, or you can do it directly on YouTube by pressing the join button.

Uh, all right, Ben. So let's get to the show. In the past twenty four hours, the president of the United States went from threatening to commit massive, clear cut war crimes to threatening genocide literally on a country of ninety million people. Uh on Tuesday, Trump wrote on Truth Social, quote, A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I I don't want that to happen, but it probably will. So that

something he just put in writing. Uh and then perversely ended the message with God bless the great people of Iran. So what we all assume Trump is talking about there in that post is that I threat to blow up all of the bridges and power plants in Iran, though he could do far worse. We'll get to that in a little bit. Um but here are some just

uh of Trump's actual comments about the war in Iran from Monday. Uh then Fox News is Brad Bear is talking about a conversation he had with Trump on Tuesday that I think gives us some more insight into his thinking. And then finally J D Vance weighed in on all things Iran from Budapest. So let's watch. We have w uh a plan because of the power of our military where every bridge in Iran will be decimated.

by twelve o'clock tomorrow night, where every power plant in Iran will be out of business, burning, exploding, and never to be used again. I mean complete demolition by twelve o'clock. And it'll happen over a period of four hours if we wanted to. It will take them a hundred years to rebuild. The entire country could be taken out in one night, and that night might be tomorrow night. I just got off the phone with the president. He said eight PM is happening.

Whether it's positive or negative, we're gonna get a response from the Iranians by eight o'clock tonight. We've got tools in our toolkit that we so far haven't decided to use. The president of the United States can decide to use them and he will decide to use them if the Iranians don't change their force of conduct. Uh

Okay, so Ben a few thoughts, I'll just kick it over to you. So again, we're recording this a few hours before Trump's deadline, uh, after which he'll s he says he'll bomb Iran into the stone age. Um, it's not ideal timing for the show or for humanity, frankly. Um, if Trump goes through with this threat, I think it'll take some time to kind of figure out what exactly was hit, like the scale of the destruction, et cetera. So we're just gonna record today.

Frankly, just assuming that this war is only going to escalate. Um, and then just unpack the implications of that escalation, because I think that's important. I mean, there's peace talks are ongoing, there's some, you know, occasional leak. that suggests they're making progress, but it feels like the two sides are very far apart and this is only going up.

Um uh but again and also Iran I think cut off the talks with the US at least for some period of time after that genocidal tweet that I just read to you. So anyway, a few thoughts from me and I'll kick it to you. I mean first

Again, this just is a clear cut war crime to say you're gonna bomb all the power plants and bridges in Iran. Um, you cannot indiscriminately bomb civilian infrastructure. There has to be proportionality to any military effort. Um, but let's be honest, like Trump doesn't care about that.

Um he's you know, the Hague is not gonna come arrest him, so he just doesn't give a fuck. So I I guess do with that what you will. Um in practice though, like what it would mean to bomb Oliver on's power plants and bridges is mass civilian death. And I think we should just be clear about that. Like every baby on a respirator will die. Doctors will not be able to perform surgeries. There will be no power for electric pumps that are critical to getting people clean water.

Uh, you won't be able to treat water to make it safe to drink. There won't be desalination plants running. Um, there will be no way to move food or essential items around the country if there's no bridges. And there's no way of undoing this step. You know, like millions of people will die, refugees will flee the country en masse. It will be a a catastrophe, a humanitarian cat catastrophe.

Um and on Monday, Ben, I don't know if you saw this, like Trump made this insane claim that Iran the only time Iranians are unhappy is when the bombing stops. But then today you're seeing images out of Iran of Thousands and thousands of Iranians lining bridges and apparently surrounding power plants.

in an effort to make themselves human shields to prevent the United States from bombing their country. That sure seems to undercut what he told us on Monday. And then just what is especially scary about all this is this like sense of bloodlust you're getting from Trump. Um Axios today reported that Trump is the most hawkish senior member of his team. One US official said, quote, the president is the most bloodthirsty, like a mad dog.

Um, so Ben, on just a human level, uh a moral level, a legal level, this is an abomination. It would be one of the most evil, catastrophic things the United States has ever done. And it also just feels like, and we'll get to this in the Maggie Haberman Jonathan Swan reporting, it it feels like no one is really trying to stop Trump, no one around him in the White House. And that is equally scary to me.

Yeah, I mean I I I actually think this is an important day in our history because let's just deal with kind of modern history because we can obviously go back and talk about Native Americans. Um, but but we now have a president of the United States. who has threatened as a matter of policy to commit genocide.

Uh and and I think that the enormity of that reality is something that has been hard for people to absorb in this country. Not hard, by the way, for Iranians to absorb because they're living on the other end of it. Um but whatever happens, even if he doesn't make good on this threat.

Just the fact that we are now in a position where the president and commander in chief of the most powerful military in the world is threatening to use that military to commit genocide is something that will change the perception of the United States. for a generation to come around the world. Uh because w we are now a rogue state. We're functioning as a rogue superpower threatening to kill countless innocent.

It's wrong. Uh, the degree of pushback uh from and all both parties, uh society in general, like. i needs to be at a higher decibel level. Um th th th i i it it's just a a horrifying thing to to to read that this morning. I think I think the second thing The the way Trump talks about these things, i it's as if there are not people involved. I I I mean, every person listening to this podcast. has crossed the bridge, has turned on the light.

has maybe had a parent on a ventilator or uh you know a a maybe a baby in the NICU or or I mean those people will die if Trump does in Iran, if Trump does what he's talking about. And the kind of lack of capacity, he clearly has no capacity to see himself and his own humanity in these people in Iran. And uh we somehow as Americans like need to on a m you know put aside policy and the the stupidity of this war and the insanity of it and the high oil prices and all the rest of it, like

Threatening mass murder as a a form of policy. Um It it puts us in a more dangerous world. It's kind of normalizing a certain conduct that we saw in Gaza, that we're seeing in Lebanon, that we saw Vladimir Putin pursue in Ukraine, like normalizing this to this extent.

uh and i i you know is is truly dangerous uh no matter what happens. Uh and it also, Tommy, like I it just made me think uh You know, we we are now in this scenario where we've got this autocratic leader who is dangerous, who is venal, uh, who Uh you know, maybe he thinks he's doing some form of madman diplomacy. Uh that's like the charitable version. It's pretty scary that we're only a year and what, two or three months into this Trump term. Like today's the first day, Tommy, where I was like

How are we gonna make it through the rest of this term? And You know, I I I I I know, you know, it's kind of resistance fantasy to talk about impeachment and the twenty fifth amendment and the rest of it, but But I don't know, i if he does this, I I I mean, y you you start to wonder, like, who's gonna stop him, you know, from doing more of this? And so

Yeah, anything.'Cause we're kind of in it now. We're we're we're this is not the first war this administration and may very well not be the last, you know. And and so there's a lot that could happen or not happen in Iran.

Um, but I d I do think uh taking us a a a minute here to just absorb like the enormity of this threat and the consistency w of it too. Like he did this on Sunday too. Um Uh i i i it's really unsettling in in a kind of uh deep way and and it makes you wonder where this country and the world is going.

Yeah, it's uh it's unsettling. Um, it's an evil threat. I suggest someone who is cavalier and indifferent to the value of human life. And it's not just unsettling dust. I mean, we're gonna dig into what Tucker Carlson said about this, someone who's friends with Trump, who's a huge MAGA supporter. Um and also, you know, we we shouldn't let the threat of what Trump has said he might do um uh

hide like the horrors that have already befallen the Iranians. I mean again, the the the human rights activist news agency uh estimates that uh over sixteen hundred civilians have been killed in the war since it started, including two hundred and forty eight children. Uh the Iran's Ministry of Science and Technology says that at least thirty universities have now been struck by airstrikes.

Um, the World Health Organization says it's verified at least 20 attacks on medical centers. The UN says that over three million Iranians have been displaced. So the cost

for the Iranian people is massive already in terms of lives and and you know infrastructure that will take generations to rebuild. And one other thing I was thinking about, Ben, I mean, I was watching I don't know if you watch the entire like 90 minute Trump, Ratcliffe, Hegseth, Dan Cain victory lap on the rescue operation um in Iran.

Um, we're basically not even gonna talk about it because like so many lifetimes have happened since then of news. I mean, it's extraordinary. What our military did to to find these two airmen is extraordinary. But I kept thinking about um a previous press conference with Heg Seth. when he was bragging about how the US military sank an unarmed Iranian ship with a torpedo and how cool he thought that was to put, you know, a hundred and fifty Iranian sailors

at the bottom of the ocean. And it just made me think about how those two airmen would have been treated by the IRGC had they been captured, given like the cavalier way that Pete Hegseth not only doesn't give a shit about civilian casualties or rules of engagement, but like seems to revel again in in the bloodlust, in the killing and in like, does his fucking, you know, war crimes beat poetry, Dr. Seuss?

routine at these uh briefings. So it was just I don't know, the whole thing. Again, unsettling is the right word. Yeah, and I I think you know, two things. The university let's just talk about the universities'cause there are these, you know Twitter warriors who've wanted war with Iran for fifteen or twenty years who, you know, like to say, well,

You know, there's scientists that went to that university and so it's a military target or you know or and they also say like maybe the Iranian military could drive something across that bridge. No, that's not how this works. Gonna bomb Harvard, gonna bomb MIT. What are we talking about?

Yeah, I mean w you could make under this logic, I mean, you you you actually do have to put yourself in the shoes of Iranians, which is something that these people seem incapable of doing, except to want to kill them. Um Harvard does plenty of research, including some stuff that reaches US military. Like w how would we feel if they were bombed by Iran? You know, uh just some service members might. Take the train down to a base to deploy. Does that make the tra like This is

What are we talking about? Yeah. What are we talking about? Who have we become that we're sitting here post facto- you know what the I can guarantee you that most of the people that went to those universities are just students like you and I were when we went to college. most progressive people in the country. Yeah, they're the people that fucking protested. You know? And so I I'm I just want to call out how what bullshit it is to to kind of you can find a

a crazy logic train to make anything a target under that. Yes. And there's a reason that international law distinguishes civilian from military targets. You know? Yeah.

It's yeah, and it's not even a question. It's just like so self evidently a war crime. Um, a little bit on on just how we got to this war. So again, mm Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan. at the New York Times have a book coming out on uh June twenty third about like the new Trump two point oh, the new regime. Um, there's a big excerpt from the book in the Times today.

That's all about how Trump reached the decision to go to war, that is just extraordinary. Like the d the detail in this reporting is unbelievable to me. So a few things I mean, Ben and I are coming at this from as news consumers, but also as people

who were like uh threatened every day by Lindsey Graham on Fox News for like allegedly leaking shit and now that more has leaked about the Trump administration in a few months than has ever leaked about any you know other administration history. So They got all this detail, Haberman and Swan got all this detail about a meeting Trump held with BB Netanyahu on February eleventh.

were Netanyahu who made the case for war. Apparently this is Netanyahu was physically in the White House situation room. They zoomed in like the Mossad guys behind him. Um, and they made their case, the Israelis made their case for the war, and it detailed all these Israeli assumptions for how things would go. And my God, were they catastrophically wrong then? Um, here's a few things that the Israelis told Trump.

Uh Iran's ballistic missile program could be destroyed in a few weeks. The regime would be so weakened that it could not choke off the Strait of Hormuz. The odds that Iran would hit US interests in neighboring countries was assessed as minimal.

Uh and the Mossad assessed that street protests would start again. They also had plans to help foment street protests, and they thought that bombing could then help the opposition overthrow the regime. And then, you know, the Israelis, as we n I've now seen reported elsewhere, were driving this.

plan to have Kurdish forces in Iraq invade Iran and basically attack the regime from a second front. Um so Haberman and Swan report that US intelligence assessed that the Israeli claims about regime change and a popular uprising were delusional, but Trump apparently dismissed. those you know, what the US intelligence said and said it was quote, their problem. It's not clear in the book whether their problem means Israel's problem or Iran's problem, but that was how seriously Trump uh

to consider these, you know, uh this response from his own intelligence services. Um, they also report that while Netanyahu's pitch was influential, Trump was way more hawkish uh on Iran than many of his base believed and was like pretty disposed to wanting to bomb.

Um, they report that JD Vance was kind of all over the place. Like he wanted Trump to enforce the red line that he made in January when the protesters were killed. But Vance is also reportedly the most opposed to the war in time of the war cabinet. Um, Vant initially said apparently tried to steer Trump towards limited strikes, but then when he realized that Trump wanted to do it, he made the pitch to go all in with overwhelming force. So like

Great work there, JD, I guess, like profile and courage from you. Um Hegeth was the biggest proponent of the war. Shocker uh Rubio is described as ambivalent, but didn't try to talk Trump out of it. Again, another profile encourage. Um and it sounds like Tucker Carlson was like the only person with any real guts here. Um and he told Trump that the war would destroy his presidency. Last thing, Ben, um Scott Bessant, the Treasury Secretary, Chris Wright, the energy secretary, and Tulsi Gabbard.

the director of national intelligence were excluded from the war planning. Uh might have been good to have someone who was thinking about the global economy, energy supplies, uh in the Intel case, I don't know, at those meetings. But Ben, takeaways from you from from these reports?

I mean, first of all, you and I have both over the years, uh and over the last few weeks, you know, been called an an anti Semite for suggesting that Israel pushed us into this war. I mean, we now have reporting that the Prime Minister of Israel literally flew to the situation room to give a fucking presentation about why Trump should get into the war.

And that most of his own team didn't even want to do it and told them that the Israelis were full of shit. Uh I think that's a direct quote from Rubio that it's bullshit or something. And he did it anyway. So can we please put to rest? I this idea that we're not allowed to discuss that Israel la and Netanyahu in particular were the principal advocates for the US doing it, it doesn't absolve Trump at all of responsibility. Frankly, it makes him even a bigger idiot.

Yeah. Yeah, it makes him look like a moron. John Ratcliffe is not some like, you know, impartial guy. The fact that he was saying like that, you know, the CIA doesn't agree with this tells you a lot. So let's I don't want to hear any more stuff about we're not we have to have a conversation about Israel is an expansionist power. that wants to take land from Lebanon and Syria and create destruction in Iran and somehow has got Trump on the caboose of this plan, um, that's a problem.

Yeah, we're not even talking about this week the fact the Israelis are are uh now basically saying that they're gonna seize about fifteen miles of territory into Lebanon. I mean, but that's part of the d I think the plan, right? Is that under the cover of this big war

We're gonna do this in Lebanon and we're gonna do all this stuff in the West Bank. Then it's also like it it points it's interesting to relive that presentation from the Israelis because it reminds you that none of the objectives that Trump set. are being met. There's no regime change. There's no popular uprising. The nuclear material is still sitting there. The enriched uranium is is in is fahan. may have been moved, yeah.

Yeah, maybe moved. So, like the stated reasons at like for what Israel was pitching and what Trump said when he launches war. Like those are out the window. Even in the rosy scenarios, if we get a deal somehow, don't address those things, the regime will be more entrenched. It will demonstrate it controls the straight of four moves. It can extract fees from countries that export energy through there. And and that that kind of like I it kinda takes me back to the pilot thing, Tommy, because

I I had the same feelings you did. Um and I saw somebody like attack you online and be like, You you won't be give Trump a win. Look, I it obviously the people that rescued that pilot like did their jobs. But you know what? No. I'm not gonna give Trump fucking credit.

For i i like it's the same thing. If if he opens the Strait of Hormuz, we're gonna have to hear about it's the greatest win ever when the Strait of Hormuz, you know when was open? Before the fucking war. Yeah. You know? And and we've seen this pattern where he creates messes and Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He sets something on fire and he puts out part of the fire and once like the Nobel Peace Prize. Like no, that pilot shouldn't have been there. That's my deal. First of all, that pilot shouldn't have been dropping bombs. It's not his fault, he's got the orders, but like

uh on Iranian universities, but then he shouldn't have been in that harm's way, as you said. And and and the Strait of Hormuz, like the the fact that we're frantically trying to negotiate its opening just tells you how much Trump has fucked up this war that should not have been fought.

The other thing people were saying to me, like not not to be in my Twitter mentions, but people were saying, like, the people who oppose this war are upset that the pilot was rescued. It's like, I'm sorry, what are you talking about? I think I'm upset that he was shot down.

Shut down, but like if you oppose this war, literally the worst thing that could have possibly happened was a hostage crisis where the IRGC has had one or two American pilots, and like like because then Trump would have just raced up the escalation ladder. You know that's what would have happened. Yeah, and the last thing that kind of connects all these things we're talking about is

It it is interesting to hear that Trump was the kind of bloodthirsty one and because the worrisome thing, and we saw this with Putin, right? Uh sometimes you get these autocratic leaders. They're getting older. They're thinking about like the sweep of history. Maybe their domestic agendas run out of gas. Um, this is what happened to Putin. Like he he didn't care anymore about the Russian economy or whatever. He's like, How can I enter history?

You know, uh while by taking territory. And uh what worries me is that Trump has got the aging autocratic bug where it's like The way I go down in history is not the big beautiful bill, you know, which probably doesn't care about. It it's yeah, it's I'm gonna conquer Cuba. I'm gonna conquer

I'm gonna break Iran. I'm gonna conquer Greenland. Like this is why this is so dangerous is he seems to have caught this, you know, this bug that we've seen plenty of other autocrats catch of powerful nations. um, you know, where I I can I can use the military as this extension of my sense of vengeance and grandiosity.

You know, Yeah, it's really it paints a very scary portrait of Trump. I'm eager to read the rest of the book. Again, though, just on this excerpt, I mean, look, you and I both had jobs where we were charged with trying to explain to the country kind of like national security issues and decision making while also guarding secrets. And every time we did the former, we got attacked by like John McCain and Lindsey Graham and other people for so-called leaks, even when it was just like.

Basic like press briefings and things like after the bin Laden operation, right? Everyone lost their mind and act like, you know, somehow all this. secret information was put out. And it's like, I I don't really think that's true, but whatever. The shit in this book, the shit in this excerpt is stunning. Like literally direct quotes of what the chairman of the Joint Chiefs

said to Trump in a meeting of like e eight people or something that happened a few weeks ago about the most sensitive decision making around Iran. Um again, I I'm sh it's a press conference yesterday, like it seems so ill considered the way that Trump and Hegseth and Ratcliffe went out and did this victory lap and like disclosed all the ways that they rescued this pilot'cause God forbid another pilot goes down, they have to do this again. But you know, the New York Post today, Ben.

um said that they found the second airman using a secret tool called Ghost Murmur. To find the weapon system officer. Uh, this is how it's described. The secret technology uses long-range quantum magnetometry to find the electromagnetic fingerprint of a human heartbeat and pairs the data with artificial intelligence software to isolate the signature from background noise.

Two sources close to the breakthrough said, It's like hearing a voice in a stadium, except the stadium is a thousand square miles of desert. A source briefed on the program told the post in the right conditions. If your heart is beating, we will find you. Um, that sounds pretty fucking cool. It also sounds like the thing you probably

don't want out there. But Trump was like essentially disclosed this when he talked about the ability to pinpoint the second airman from 40 miles away on the top of a mountain. Um the CIA was also talking about running a deception campaign within Iran to fool the IRGC into looking in the wrong places for the missing airmen. Um, it's like there was just so much they were leaking from this press conference. It was so irresponsible. And it was clearly like just an attempt.

to, you know, put a gloss on this war, to rally around the flag effect, to get people on board with the war effort itself. Um, but like the just lack of long term thinking is uh I I mean it's typical for these assholes, I guess.

Yeah, I mean even if you're a casual observer of national security issues, or you've seen a few movies about special forces, you know that literally revealing all the sensitive capabilities that we use in rescue missions, which there'll be more of

you know, hostage rescue missions, uh uh happen, you know, semi-regularly. Um, this is just giving the playbook away to anyone who wants to use it. I mean, uh clear as day. It also just There's a hypocrisy that it's so extreme that it it kind of comes back to the point that when they would attack people for, you know, leaking, it's just projection.

because they know that they would leak anything if it would make them look good. And in the same way that Trump is using the military as an extension of his kind of personal interests, whether that's, you know Potentially committing genocide or whether that's purging generals. He he sees these capabilities that are not his. Right? Like we taxpayers pay for them. They're American capabilities.

they're not his to like the the idea that just this might make him'cause what also the politics, like, do we really think there's gonna be like a surge in approval of Trump in the war because he revealed the supersonic, you know, weapon. I mean, it it's it it like even the politics of it make no sense. It's literally like a kid who just like wants to brag about

Something that he had nothing to do with. Like, and this, like, it's not like Donald Trump had anything to do with what those people on the ground did. He's already I was like, I ordered them to do this. It's like, okay. Well that yeah, that was the hard part. It wasn't, you know, fucking refueling a helicopter at low altitude going around Iran as everyone is shooting at you with every weapon they can find. Like I think that was the hard part. I think that was a little hard.

Fucking asshole. Media and also like everything they said, every claim they made about, you know, how the war is going is a lie. Like the t the New York Times reported that Iran is still launching fifteen to thirty ballistic missiles a day, fifty to a hundred drones. Uh Iran is now using cluster munitions. Uh to defeat certain Israeli missile defense systems. Like basically the the they're sh firing ballistic missiles that release.

cluster munitions, which are like little bomblets at high altitude, which lets you get around some of Israel's missile defense systems, which is why you're seeing those clips of these like, you know, looks like a like fifty like stars kind of sinking on Tel Aviv or whatever, which Is doing enormous damage. And meanwhile, Ben, I mean, I saw a report. It was called the Jewish Institute for National Security of America. It's a DC think tank.

That estimates that UAE and Bahrain have expended more than three quarters of their Patriot missile uh Pac-3 interceptor stockpiles. And that's one of like the core defensive missiles in their arsenal. So again, this is just a way of saying like,

w you know, there's it's a war of attrition happening here. Um, Iran does not seem to be losing it. And the numbers of casualties and the damage and the economic fallout is gonna go up and up every day this goes on. So it's just it's not a good setup here. And they will brag in detail about the minute details of a rescue operation while simultaneously they are lying or concealing information.

about the damage that's being done. We get no credible, transparent reporting from the government about the damage to US facilities. In, you know, across the Gulf, be they military bases or embassies, some of which are just closed or inoperable, right? the Saudi the the hit on the US embassy in Saudi? I don't know if you guys talked about that last week. I mean

Apparently, the Iranians put two drones on the same spot on the U.S. Embassy in Saudi Arabia. They they fired them at night because during the day, that area houses like 200 or 300 employees. It would have been a mass casualty incident. And the thing was burning for half a day after. And we've heard nothing about it. Nothing. Like no no briefing. I mean, these are the people remember how much they used to care about embassy security?

We don't know how badly wounded the hundreds of American service members are. Like they are they are simultaneously suppressing bad news and then just like hyping the shit out of anything they can grab onto as positive news.

And that's like a you know, that's a recipe for Americans to not trust their government. Yeah. And we pay for these things. This is what I hate about this so much is like he again, uh Trump acts like this is all his to do whatever he wants with. Like, no, uh an embassy, a military base. Like those are those are national assets, you know, and they're just not leveling with us.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, standing in the world is fucking gone. That's gone. And and they're look, they're all doing it because uh the war is really unpopular. I mean, the public opinion started out opposed this war. It has been getting worse. Inexorably ever since. Trump himself is not getting a boost or like a rally around the flag effect like you usually see in wartime. Um, Harry Enton at CNN uh did a great piece on this. He pulled together some numbers. So

George W. Bush got a 14-point bump in the first month of the Iraq War. His father, Ben, got a 34-point boost. Uh, in the first month of the previous Gulf War. Even Jimmy Carter was up like 30 points in the first month of the Iranian hostage crisis. But Trump's net approval is actually down four points. That is completely ahistoric. The only sort of like uh similar instance he could point to was uh the month after Biden

left Afghanistan. When he went down six points in the approval rating and basically it ended his presidency. Um, and so th they also looked at the CNN aggregator, uh the polling on the war itself. It started

Twelve points underwater, now it's twenty two points underwater. Uh and I'm positive that's gonna get worse, right? Because gas prices are only going up, other commodity prices are going up, the price of food could go up, the global economy is slowing down. Uh there could be a collapse, but it it no matter what, it's slowing down.

Um and on top of that, like during the Iraq war, which you and I live through, uh, it was all cheerleading for the war. But now you're seeing like major voices in the kind of the MAGA media ecosystem loudly opposing this one. And so today we're gonna play for you guys a couple of clips from Tucker Carlson.

in his most recent episode that I think are are are quite important and instructive. Um, and for the record, yeah, like yes, we know all the bad things Tucker has done and said, we know he's a flawed person. We know he's a flawed messenger, but he reaches millions

and millions of people who are pro Trump, who are MAGA and who trust him. So what he says to them is really fucking important. Um and so this first clip is long, but it is worth it, I promise. Um so again, this is from Tucker's most recent episode that I think came out Monday night.

And so the morning of Easter is a uniquely joyful and peaceful moment. And yet that peace yesterday was shattered. That's not an overstatement, it was shattered. for many observant Christians, by a statement that the President of the United States put out at 8 03 AM Eastern time on Easter morning that said this. And we're going to read it in its entirety, not an outrage or self-righteousness.

But honestly in horror. Quote Tuesday will be power plant day and bridge day, all wrapped up in one in Iran. There will be nothing like it. Three exclamation points. Open the fucking straight, you crazy bastards, or you'll be living in hell. Just watch. All caps. Praise be to Allah, President Donald J. Trump. Now a lot of people reading that imagined, of course, this can't be real. Did the president of the United States really just write that? And it is real.

It is maybe the most real thing this president has ever done, and also the most revealing. On every level. It is vile. But then the tweet continues. Pardon me, the ironically named Truth continues. There will be nothing like it. Open the effin straight. How dare you speak that way on Easter morning to the country? Who do you think you are?

You're tweeting out the F word on Easter morning? You'll be living in hell as if hell is a place. Hell is a condition, and this is an example of that condition. Just watch, praise be to Allah. So obviously, you're mocking the religion of Iran. Okay. If you seek a religious war, that's a good idea. This is a mockery not just of Islam, it's a mockery of Christianity.

To send out a tweet with the F-word on Easter morning promising the murder of civilians and then saying, praise be to Allah without explaining any of it, you are mocking me and every other Christian because we're Christians. Oh, I get it. We can't support that. So that that is a small thing. Slight. Yeah. Uh forty five minute monologue from Tucker that is ba i I I don't know how to view this other than a pretty firm break from Trump. I'm maybe he'll come back, a lot of them do, but it it is

Um, it is an attack on Trump in the most harsh moral terms. So it includes Tucker attacking Trump for the following pen. Uh he he starts at the top. He says, like Trump's saying that our motive for invading Venezuela was stealing their oil.

Should have been a moment where a lot of people said, I'm out. And I think Tucker is sort of using that monologue as a moment for saying he wished he had said that. Um, he talks about how Trump didn't put his hand on the Bible when he was sworn in at his own inauguration, which Tucker said suggests.

that Trump quote affirmatively rejects what's inside that book. And that what and what's inside that book are limits on human behavior. Because if there's one theme that spans all sixty six books in the Christian Bible. It's that you are not God and you cannot assume his powers. You may want them, but in the end they're not yours. End of quote. So Tucker is not at all subtly uh accusing Trump of thinking he's now God.

Uh, he goes in on the Easter Truth Social Post, like we just heard there, and then he argues that Trump launched this war because of literal bloodlust, um, like because he enjoys the killing itself. Uh and then there's the disr uh the WMD piece that we'll get to in a minute. And so, you know, Ben, I think both of us, you know, we listen to Tucker now because he's been really compelling on Iran. Uh and it's important to know what he's saying to his audience. We wanted to highlight this.

because um it includes a really I think it's a strong moral case against the war that that's um rooted in Christianity, uh there it includes a call for everyone to say that this is unacceptable and unjustifiable and crazy. And then again, most importantly, the message is coming from Trump's literal close friend.

a man who spoke at his convention, who is arguably the most important voice in conservative media. And I just think that is a huge, huge deal. Uh, and I wonder what you took away from this, from this episode.

Uh like you I've been listening to Tucker'cause it's interesting, uh, since the war started and Uh what I take away is first of all, uh in the some of the early episodes he was strongly against the war. But it was much of his ire was focused on Netanyahu and there was almost a sense that like Trump was this guy that was like he left the name Trump out of some of his criticisms. It was the Israelis.

Yeah, and and and you know, for whatever reason, you know, sincere conviction or opportunism or both. Th that felt like a total and complete rebuke of Trump from somebody who is deep, deep within the tent. And frankly, I I I listened to that and I part of me thought

How come Tucker Carlson can mount a clear moral case? By the way, in w there's no mention of Israel. Like, like I I'm not here to excuse, you know, platforming Nick Fuentes at all, but the point is that That was a more morally grounded frontal assault on the war than you hear from certainly any elected Republicans other than maybe Thomas Massey and Rand Paul and frankly most Democrats. You think it's you think it's better to make a case on values rather than process not coming?

Exactly. It's Tucker's not saying like, well, we didn't get a good enough Yeah. Yeah. Like and and actually, you know, I think you can learn from people who you disagree with. Yes. And I disagree profoundly with Tucker Carlson about a lot of things, including, you know, the nature of this country inside its borders. But I think we can learn. Stripping out all the other things and mounting a direct moral case against what Trump is doing.

lands very powerfully. Um and frankly, I don't have the standing that you know, I I'm not a a Christian in the same way, but the fact that he and Marjorie Taylor Green and some other people are really entering this conversation through the doorway of Christianity.

gets it a real weakness for Trump because as Tucker says elsewhere in that show, he's not personally pious. Like he's never pretended to be a deep Christian, but he's kind of you know, gaslit Christians and, you know, delivered certain things for pro life Christians, for instance, overturning Roe v. Wade.

But if if you if he starts to lose that base of support, evangelical and Protestant Christians in this country, he's pretty fucked. He's dust. Um and I should add, by the way, there's the other American who's been even Strong. on the moral basis is the Pope, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And the head of the uh conference of uh Catholic bishops in the US put out a withering statement today urging Trump to walk back from his threats. So he's got a problem. And and again, if people s want to say

Does this matter? Like some of the polling shows that MAGA's behind him. Tucker Carlson, you know, I read the Crooked Reeds book uh by Jason Zangerly. Great book. Hated by all the right people. And part of what you learn about Tucker is particularly in the last you know, decade the Trump decade and and a little bit before, this guy has seen where the puck was going and skated to it. Yep. And so just because the polling hasn't collapsed in Maggie yet, the fact that Tucker

Is seeing the direction of where the MAGA movement might go or Trump supporters might go. He's always out in front of. He's always leading it. This is a guy that had the highest rated show in the history of cable news on Fox, and then has a giant platform now. Yeah. Um and I guarantee you that Republican politicians listen to that show. No they also know that Tucker Carlson may be preparing to run for president because

It certainly feels like a lane is open now that J.D. Vance is on board with this war. So that's a lot of reasons why this is both interesting. There's again, I hate hate to say this, something to learn from the kind of moral case he mounts. Um and I I think is a i is a real warning sign.

that if if Tucker's, you know, because it's not just him. We we see plenty of other people uh that are kind of following his lead in that kind of podcast space uh and in internet space on the right. I I I I think it's a harbinger that He the the people are beginning to look past Trump. Yeah, and look at the like people will say, you know, there's polls.

including by CNN's Harry Enton, who you mentioned earlier, that said like quote unquote MAGA voters are not leaving Trump. Well yes. If you're if you're self-identifying as a MAGA voter, you're basically saying like you're a a Trump fan.

Right. And those people are going to be the last to go. But he's losing Republicans. But I do think like the war is only a few it's like a few weeks old, right? And I think when gas prices continue to go up and when you have people like Tucker Carlson or Joe Rogan or others. repeatedly condemning the war in terms like these or NTG, uh, that opinion can change over time and slowly erode. And again, like in American politics, like Trump's never Trump will probably never get down to it.

you know, ten percent approval rating, but if his approval rating drops a couple of points, five percent say, that could lead to an electoral landslide in the midterms or other elections. So it's very, very meaningful. Podsate the world is brought to you by Remy. You'll never believe this, love it, but uh I once struggled with um sore jaw in the morning, teeth grinding, you know, a little stress-induced nightly clenching until I found Remy. You know what Remy is? Sir Josh.

You say. Oh God. Oh God. Remy. Yeah. What about it, Tommy? Remy is a custom night guard you make at home. And and here is why it's great. If you ever gone to the dentist and you've offered to get a night guard. Uh it is unbelievably expensive. It's time consuming. You have to go to the gentist, the the the do the like measuring thing, then they send it to you and it takes a bunch of time. Remy is so much better. They send it to your house.

Uh, you can do the fitting at home, then you send it back to them. And then just a few weeks later, they will mail you a night guard and it will cost a fraction of the price. And then better yet, every six months they'll send you a new one.

Because these things get a little bit gross and you want to refresh it. Uh and it just comes automatically. And that is why I trust Remy to protect my teeth using their custom nightcard along with 350,000 Americans. And by the way, was using them for years before they were a sponsor. Cool that something comes automatically before you Sorry. Wow. Remy neck cards are clinical.

Yeah, clear to prevent teeth damage from grinding to reduce jaw tension and facial muscle strain and improve your sleep quality. Get the same professional quality and comfort as a night guard from a dentist for eighty percent less cost.

by taking your own impression from the convenience of your own home. Mm-hmm. Here's how it works. After purchase, your impression kit comes straight to your door. You follow Remy's step-by-step instructions to get your perfect impression. Remy crafts and ships you a custom nightfit guard. And you get your night guard back and you start protecting your teeth.

Protect your teeth, the Remy, by using the code World to get fifty percent off your new night guard. That's fifty percent off at shop r-e-mi dot com slash world. Use code world. Thank you, Remy, for sponsoring this podcast.

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Whether you are navigating anxiety, depression, or relationship hurdles, or just need an objective professional to help manage daily stress, BetterHelp connects you with the right support. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the U.S.

BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences in their 12 or more years of experience in industry-leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored record.

With over thirty thousand therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over six million people globally, and it works with an average of four point nine out of five for a live session based on over one point seven million client reviews. Look, uh, it's a scary world out there. There's a lot going on.

Wars in our professional lives, there's stuff in your personal life, there's work anxiety, there's kids, there's everything. You need to talk to someone and have a therapist. and get your mental health in order. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash crooked world. That's better h e l p dot com slash crooked world.

Uh finally Ben just before we go on to this webinar. discussion. I did want to play you one other clip from uh a MAGA voice who many would argue is more influential than Tucker and the Pope all rolled together. So let's watch. What do we twenty fifth amendment has asked? The problem is to get the twenty fifth Amendment's harder than impeachment. You have to get two thirds of the house and two thirds of the Now, what do we do?

Uh, tackle Trump uh and and pretend let him pretend he's president and publicly uh report that he's going through a health issue and advance takeover. That was um uh InfoWars founder Alex Jones, uh who's been one of the biggest Trump fans ever screaming, How do we do any fifth amendment is ass? I just thought that was fun. But it like Who is he talking to? Is he interviewing himself? I assume that guy wrote the hobby. Alex Jones or something.

I don't know if he created like it like Glenn Beck when he interviewed like an AI version of himself or something. Dude, we should Mary A George Washington. So We should put in an interview request for AI George Washington's Uh I don't know.

I don't know if anyone listened to Alex Jones anymore, but like just him screaming like how we do it for the minimum his ass. It's fucking hilarious to me. But I it's not just them. It's also like I I don't know if you ever watched Tim Dillon like sort of uh Yeah. Yeah. Conspiracy loving, kind of right leaning comedian who endorsed Trump and just you know hated Biden, he didn't show Ryan.

Sean Ryan, right? There's like a lot of like it's not just one person, it's like a bunch of voices saying, Hey, you lied to us. Right. This is not what you said you would do. Um, and it's a moral case against Trump about his character, not just the policy. And that's what's so meaningful about it. So um Tucker is kind of chief antagonist on all things.

Iran has been a Fox News host named Mark Levin. Levin is very pro war with Iran. Uh he's a huge BB Netanyahu friend and fan. I think he like literally showed up in the courtroom at Netanyahu's trial for corruption. He advocates for war all the time on his show. He also despises Tucker Carlson and everything he stands for and calls him an anti Semite all the time. Um the they don't like each other very much in this episode. Did you catch when Tucker compares Mark Levin to Jeffrey Epstein?

This weird way, but he's like, neither of them have any real talent or power. You know, he's just a mouthpiece. Um, so no love lost there. But so Tucker's monologue builds to an argument. That Trump has exhausted his conventional military options for winning this war, or at least by for opening the Strait of Hormuz, right? Because you can't just like,

bomb your way from the air to getting the Strait of Hormuz open, especially when you can mine the Strait of Hormuz and put mines underwater and block it that way, right? So that is obvious obviously correct in my opinion. Um, but then Tucker's next argument is something that's worth debating, which is that The escalation ladder is going up and up and up in a way that will lead Trump, in his view, to using a nuclear weapon in Iran. Uh, here's a clip.

Here's what Mark Levin said on his Easter weekend show about what we ought to do next in Iran. Watch. And the casualty numbers, as horrible as any casualty is, Deed some context. The Battle of Okinawa, fifty thousand plus casualties, over twelve thousand, nearly thirteen thousand killed on that island, which is what convinced Truman that we would lose a l a million men. if we didn't drop the atomic bombs that we did.

Embedded in there is something you need to know. It's an argument that is being test driven, and since no one to our knowledge has pushed back against it, maybe in full operation now, it's an argument for nuclear weapons.

So, Ben, I I don't know about you. I've not seen any news outlets report that Trump or Netanyahu for that matter are considering using nuclear weapons in Iran. Um, but I do think like we should take the conversation itself seriously because in any war or any like terrorism debate, there will always be people who make some version of the argument that it is acceptable to kill as many of them over there.

to protect us over here. Uh you can sort of insert whatever country you want there. And but that's how you end up dropping 2,000-pound bombs on refugee camps in Gaza. That's how you get to Trump threatening to blow up every power plant in Iran. And that is how you could get to a point where the US or Israel, in the most like staggeringly hypocritical act.

in history or imaginable, could argue that it's okay for us to nuke them so that they can't one day nuke us. Um, and again, I know like Tucker is flawed. I'm not gonna go through it all again, but like he knows Trump as well as anyone. Um, and it seems like something is freaking him out here about this issue in particular. Um, and in that segment, he even implores White House staff to make the case not only to Trump not to do this, but to ignore orders.

to use nuclear weapons if it gets to that point, which is pretty extraordinary when you think about the debate over like the seditious six and the way Republicans were attacking Jason Crow and the other Democratic members of Congress who basically made those We're on to something.

Yeah, which is you you know, it can't follow a an unlawful order. So I don't know. Wha what do you make of I mean, not just Tucker as part of this, because clearly he hates Mark Levin and that's you know fueling some of it, but like How worried should we be about this kind of WMD? My headline on this issue.

You know, I mentioned you, Tommy, I've heard from some normies in my life, like the kind of people that don't follow, you know, foreign policy that closely, um, uh starting to email me or text me, like, hey, is he gonna use a nuclear weapon? Like it's it's out in the ether, you know,'cause of what he's saying.

'Cause you when you threaten to destroy civilization, um, you know, and you threaten to commit genocide, like that's the kind of space you're entering. Um and and and and my headline on this is I I certainly don't think that that's likely. But the fact that it doesn't feel impossible is terrifying. Because yeah, I could see a scenario. Let's say Trump goes through today or two weeks from now or whenever with this threat to kind of mass bomb civilian infrastructure.

And then I don't think anything about the Iranians suggests that they will capitulate. The Iranians bomb a lot of Gulf energy infrastructure and Yeah. Yeah. D and we just keep climbing an escalation ladder, and you know, that's the top of the escalation ladder. And it doesn't feel impossible, and it should feel impossible. Uh it also, you know, there were people on the left who were right um uh during Gaza when they said Kind of violence if normalized could migrate to other places.

And and again if you look at Gaza It looks like somebody dropped an atomic bomb. Oh yeah. I mean, every s every structure is destroyed. Like you said, they were dropping two thousand pound bombs on apartment buildings to kill one person in in the process killing scores of people.

And here we are w in a place where we've already bombed a girls' school, where we've already bombed a bridge. Like we're s we going down this slippery slope. Yep. Like uh and I the girls school may not have been intentional, but the bridge certainly was. Um we're we're kind of once you start saying we can just start kind of mass bombing s you know civilian infrastructure, it does lead to that. And the Mark Levin argument, there are two things that are

scary about it. One is I hate these guys like him and Lindsey Graham, who seem nostalgic for the days. when tens of thousands of people died in Iwo Jima in the battle of the b like they literally talk about it like it's a w we used to you know we used to have the good old days when twelve thousand men would die or something.

Um, and then yeah, he's making so we had to drop the atomic bomb so we didn't have to put in ground troops. And so i again, I don't think it's likely, but man, the fact that the President of the United States has sole authority over the nuclear, you know, launch codes.

um and that we be counting on people to not follow a plainly illegal and a moral order is is frightening and and it you know suggests revisiting again proposals from the first Trump term about limiting the president's sole authority on the use of nuclear. And also that, like, you know, one of his primary advisors is fucking Pete Hegsef, who's a he's an idiot, he's a clown. That's the guy who's in the chain of command. Does that make you feel any better? Right.

Like Fox News weekend anchor, who's now the according to the Haberman Swan reporting, like the loudest voice in favor of war with Iran. identity and place in Trump's orbit and future rests on this war going well and the US being perceived as winning it. You you think that like that can't lead you to advocate for some pretty fucking evil stuff? I think it certainly can.

And remembered his confirmation hearings that came out, one of the things that came out was him like getting drunk and like chanting kill Muslims. Remember that? Yeah. Well maybe we should fucking pay attention and not confirm sociopathic drunks. Uh

Yeah. Uh all right, let's try to end the kind of Ron section in a way that's a little more hopeful. Uh and just think about the ways this could end. Um, obviously it won't end well because since it once it started, it can't end well. But um

And would be good. So like as we've said before, there are ongoing talks. Um on the Trump side. Those talks are still being led by dumb and dumber, Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff, so that's not ideal. Um there's lots of reporting then about the Pakistanis facilitating some talk. Um but I've heard from some plugged in people that the Pakistanis aren't really doing shit. It's all just for show. Um the Egyptians and the Turks.

Are also facilitating talks. Um, Egypt's intelligence services seem to be the main event here because they have actual IRGC connections. um and can really get conversations happening with the right people. Um, at a time when it's, by the way, incredibly difficult to communicate. I mean, Trump himself said this like

It's impossible to get a message to Iran right now because they're worried we're gonna kill them. They're so you know, they're not gonna like pick up their cell phone and and talk to us, right? So they're you're doing note passing through children is how he described it. Um, there have been reports that

The US has pushed Qatar to facilitate talks, but they have resisted. That could be because both the Israelis and the Iranians uh bombed them pretty recently. Yeah. Feels like that would make me not want to get more involved. Pretty pretty good Yeah. Not not the best way to kind of make friends. Um and then obviously I bet there's stuff that's still secret. Like we don't know what we don't know. Um, then there's also like clearly just side deals happening with the Iranians directly. So

Uh, for example, Iran recently said that Iraq is exempted from its restrictions on passage through the Strait of Hamooz. They could clearly cut some kind of deal. The Philippines said their ships will get through after some sort of negotiation with Iran. Um, there's other reports that Iran is uh basically charging a toll in some instances to allow boats through. And then the UK brought together more than 40 countries to build up a coalition.

to try to figure out a plan to safeguard shipping in the strait. Obviously that's easier said than done. But long story short, like there's just lots of churn out there. There's lots of people like trying to figure out a path forward. Ben, d did any of that reporting or what we've seen so far give you a sense of what an end game might look like or kind of like a path to maybe a ceasefire that gets extended long term?

And then I think, you know, getting the Strait of Hormuz back to where it was might not be an option, but getting it functional to the point where It is not going to lead to a global depression, feels like a pretty good goal at this point. So like what are you looking at?

I I you know and and again as of this recording like that Churn was out about the Pakistanis announcing some proposal for a two week ceasefire, um a two week or delay in Trump's uh threat in response to some partial reopening of the strait. Yeah, and look, you know, that could happen and and that would be great. Um just that s a civilization, a five thousand year old civilization doesn't get destroyed tonight, that would be great. I think what I'm looking at is okay, what what

What does the US want? What does Iran want? And what does the world want, right? I think Trump at this point, he you know, he he he has to decide whether he needs some more identifiable win, you know, like, which I don't think he's necessarily gonna get, but like seize Karg Island and or try to get the nuclear material and say you, you know, but but at core what the US wants is the Strait of Hormuzo.

Which is again ironic'cause we could have had it open if we didn't start the war. What do the Iranians? Well, the Iranians have already demonstrated that they control the Strait of Formuz. They they've already won something from this war and they're already getting tolls, they're already getting fees to let like a dribble of of oil and gas through the Strait of Hormuz. I think what they will want is some kind of security guarantee that the US and Israel will not attack them again.

That probably can't just be the US in saying that. Uh some constellation of countries, China, others, may have to kind of somehow be a party to these security guarantees that are given to the Iranians. I think the Iranians will want sanctions relief.

I think the Iranians will want, I'm I'm not saying they'll get the US to pull out of the region, to not have bases surrounding them. Um so the Iranians have a list, but at core they'll want the regime survival to be assured and some kind of economic benefit. And of a li from sanctions relief to reparations. Um and and look I The US may be able to reach some part of that deal to s just stop the conflict where it is. But I actually think the more comprehensive reopening of the Strait of Hormuz.

We may just see other countries negotiate that. Like Trump is nuts, the Iranians don't trust him. And it may be that Europe and some Asian countries and the Chinese kind of they're the ones getting together with the Gulf Arabs who desperately obviously want the war to stop and the strait to reopen.

They just pay a fee going forward. Like if if I'm them at this point, I'm like a dollar per barrel of oil, fine. That's better than like the thirty, you know, the fifty percent increase I'm paying now and like the global global meltdown we're about to experience. And by the way, what a humiliation that would be to BB Net. Absolutely.

The man that said that this would be a easy regime change war, and obviously Trump, um, suddenly you've got a regime that is more IRGC controlled, that is profiting more off of the Strait of Hormuz. But again, I just think w hopefully we get some kind of partial ceasefire just so that l people stop dying and the escalation stop spiraling. And then I actually think it's gonna take a lot of other countries

Kind of trying to land the plane here on something that reopens the straight of four moves. And it's probably going to have to involve. the Iranian regime being assured in its security and having more revenue. And that's extraordinary. That's how far Trump has moved things in the wrong direction on his own objectives from before the

Yeah, way to move the uh Overton window, sir. And like yeah, like the stakes are so high. I mean, look it it it sucks for us in California paying six dollars for a gallon of gas, but like This energy shock is an absolute crisis for a lot of countries right now. Like countries in Asia are literally weeks away from running out of fuel. You got like Bangladesh.

Had to close schools. They're imposing fuel rations. Um, Ethiopia is putting non-essential government employees on leave. There are like massive, like hundreds of cars and lines to get fuel at gas stations. Farmers can't get fuel.

to to work their crops and then things will only get exponentially worse um as this fertilizer shortage really hits. Cause again, remember, like helium can't get the shru through the straightering moves, uh the fertilizer can't get through. The only positive I've seen been

Is that there are far right parties all across Europe that are now running from Trump. It's actually interesting to me that Victor Orban, who we'll talk about in a second, would allow JD Vance and Trump into his country at this moment when like Trump has created a massive crisis for them, but like the fucking AFD in Germany, the neo-Nazis are like distancing themselves from Trump. Uh the Italian prime minister, Georgia Maloney, who remember she was like a Mussolini youth fan, uh is furious Yeah.

Like she's furious because like this is causing a massive economic crisis. in Italy. Uh look the downside of this is that Trump is blaming everything on NATO for some reason. Um he's once again threatening to pull out. He's like whining about Greenland. So that's not good. Uh maybe, you know, Marco Ruta can get down on his knees and you know, do some work tomorrow with Wednesday at the White House. Ha ha. I wonder how many they've called Trump daddy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But uh, you know, it's not good. Yeah. Too far? Uh Mark Ruder is such a it's comically pathetic in the way he sucks up to Trump. Podsave the world is brought to you by Surfshark. Ever feel like the internet is reading your mind? You search for one thing and suddenly your entire feed is nothing but ads for it? That's because every click you make is being tracked.

Surfshark helps shut that down. It encrypts your internet connection and hides your real IP address so your activity stays private, whether you're at home or on public Wi-Fi at an airport or hotel. Your data is locked up tight.

Surfshark VPN also lets you change your virtual location with one click so your physical location doesn't limit what you can access online. Surfshark's clean web feature blocks ads, trackers, and malware before they even load, which means fewer pop-ups and smoother browsing overall.

They've also got tools like an email breach checker and scam alerts to help you avoid phishing attempts. And you only need one account for unlimited devices, phone, laptops, tablets, smart TV, and everything covered. Look, guys, it's a it's a dangerous internet out there. You got, you know, hackers. State actors, people just trying to buy and steal or sell your data. You need a VPN. If you're surfing the web with that one in 2026, you are exposing yourself to lots of unneeded risks.

Go to surfshark.com slash PSTW or use code PSTW at checkout to get four extra months of Surfshark VPN. That's surfshark.com slash PSTW. Code PSTW. There's a 30-day money-back guarantee. So there's no risk, Surfshark, because your search history deserves boundaries.

Uh all right, let's talk about Victor Orban, one of your favorite people. Um The MAGA world's favorite dictator, who is currently the Prime Minister of Hungary. So Hungary has parliamentary elections on April twelfth. So coming up soon. And for the first time in sixteen years, Orban appears to be in some serious political trouble.

So he's facing a major challenge from a guy named Peter Magyar from the Teza Party. Uh Reuters reported that Magyar is polling at fifty six percent while Orban is at thirty seven percent, which is the most serious threat again to Orban's rule since he took power in twenty ten. Uh Magyar's political views are not totally clear.

Um, I bet our audience would not love them if they saw like a, you know, kind of punch card of policies. He's not a progressive, he's not a liberal, certainly center right, but he used to be an Orban ally and a member of Orban's Fidesz party until uh Magyar quit. the party in twenty twenty four amid this massive, awful scandal involving like s horrible sexual abuse of children, and then the way presidential pardons were used.

to pardon the head of an organization that, you know, th turned a blind eye to that abuse. And then Marguiar's ex wife and her role. It was like very salacious stuff that involved like leaking audio tapes he made of her, et cetera. But anyway. Um according to the Associated Press though, Magyar uh is really running hard. He's campaigning in Six Towns a day. He's hammering Orbon for corruption. And by corruption in this case, we don't just mean

like this, you know, standard corruption or the ways that Orban has enriched himself or his family and friends. But like he's talking about the ways Orban and Ben you can expand on this, the way Orban is uh just upended Hungary's political system, the media, the courts, the economy to make it a way to just further consolidate his own power uh for himself, for the Fidesz party. Um so Orbon obviously, as you'd expect, is not taking it well. He's pulling out all the stops.

to win votes. That includes threats. That includes bribes. Uh Magyar has accused in the past Orban of blackmail and plotting to release his secret sex tape of him. Uh a police officer recently uh released information about a secret operation by Orban's domestic intelligence service to get data from Magyar and the Tiza Party's IT systems.

There have been several instances of election interference with ties to Russia, including a maybe like a false flag bomb threat over the weekend. The Serbian president Alexander Vucic. called up Orban and said that the Serbian army found, quote, two packages of explosives with detonators in northern Serbia that was close to a pipeline that feeds natural gas from Russia to Hungary.

um and beyond. And so, you know, Maggiar says this is a false flag. I guess maybe someday we'll find out. Uh and then finally, Ben, there is the blatant election interference campaign being run out of the White House.

Um, here is Vice President J. De Vance, who, as we mentioned before, is in Hungary in Budapest today, Tuesday, uh, on the stump for Victor Orban. Let's watch. I love Hungary and I love that Victor. I'll tell you he's a fantastic man. We've had a tremendous relationship. The President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States and the American people, we admire you. And we want to do that.

To make a decision about your future with no outside forces pressuring you or telling you what to do. I'm not telling you exactly who to vote for. Will you stand against the bureaucrats in Brussels? Where do you stand for sovereignty and democracy? Will you stand for Western civilization? Will you stand for freedom, for truth and for the God of our fathers? Then my friend Yeah. Go to the polls in the weekend, stand with Victor Orban because he stands for you and he stands for all these things.

Sorry. To answer your question, yes, we're certainly aware that there are elements within the Ukrainian intelligence services that tried to put their thumb on the scale of American elections, on Hungarian elections. This is just what they do. This is this is part of the the cost of doing business within some elements of their system. Yeah. Right.

I this I knew this was gonna trigger you. So what you heard there was so JD Vance is at a rally at the very beginning, he like calls uh Trump on his cell phone and puts it on speaker and and holds it up. Um and then at the very end, that was a clip from a press conference that JD Vance did with Orban, where he was asked about something and ended up blaming the Ukrainian intelligence services. Ben, I'd love to hear your thoughts on all of this. The Vance visit.

um that bizarre clip of him br blaming Ukraine there. And then why you think like Peter Magyar seems to have a a a chance while others don't, and what it would mean if Orban actually lost this time.

Yeah. So one book plug ago. So my my last book after the fall, um, I wrote about it hungry. Um, and I I'm not just saying this uh to to reference the book. They're th one of the characters so I profiled some people in opposition. Um and one of the three or four Hungarians that were kind of characters in my book that I spent some time with in Budapest is a investigative journalist named uh Sabolch Panyi. Uh writes for an outlet called Direct 36. He's a great investigative journalist.

And I mention him because he got charged by Orban and the Hungarian authorities with espionage. Um so it's kind of weird, you know, to write about somebody who's a journalist and then see them being uh accused of, you know, colluding with the foreign government. It's all bullshit, right? But it was part of the what what

What Sabolchpany had reported on is all the Russian interference in the Hungarian election, which is obvious. I mean, l like th they're projecting onto Ukraine what Russia is actually doing. Yeah. Right. Yep. And And it's bogus and people have called out that. But I the what is so interesting about this is again, Hungary can seem like a smaller country. I Viktor Orban is both an ideological leader of this far right.

Brand of, I don't even call it populist anymore, like this kind of far-right blood and soil nationalism that we've seen. He has been a propagator of the playbook. uh to enshrine authoritarian power in Hungary that the Republicans have copied here. He's at the fulcrum of efforts by Russia, Israel, and the United States. Putin uses Orban to sow disunity inside the EU related to Ukraine policy.

BB uses Orban to sow disunity in the EU around Israel and any potential sanction of Israel. And Trump and Vance use Orban as a fulcrum inside of Europe. to t to to fuck up whatever they don't like about the EU and that could be anything from, you know, potential tech regulation to to just, I don't know, having liberal democratic policies, right? And so it is quite interesting that this man who's been in power this time around since twenty ten.

Um, i i that Putin, Bibi, and Trump, all the worst people, are desperate for this guy to win because he's a tool of their efforts to upend European unity and bolster the far right across the continent.

Um so the stakes are very high here. Now Magyar has a chance where previous uh the pro one of the problems uh that uh we've seen in past Hungarian elections is that the the center to the left is very divided.

Um, and some of that is again almost not their fault. Some of that's kind of by design. Like there's a lot of like influence operations by the hung by the Fidez party of Orban, by the Russians and others to turn people against each other to create, you know, their version of Dems and disarray there.

Um, some of it is cause the legacy it was of very deep disgust with the governing center left party before Orban, right? So there was kind of a stink around uh some of the kind of more conventional parties. And so to have a guy like Magyar Who is a defector from the conservative movement in Hungary, um, creates a new political opening because obviously you have the left is willing to vote vote for anybody to get Orban out, but then you, you know, win over some of the independents. But also

Orban hasn't delivered. Right. Like if you look at Hungarian standards of living, Hungarian poverty levels. Victor Orban has enriched himself and become some big international celebrity to the far right. But life for Hungarians, it's not like he's like not even like the Chinese Communist Party where they can say we raise standards of living. Like th this is not working. And I think also just people are sick of this guy after 14 years.

It feels similar to like a little bit like Navalny too, right? Like in that the the Navalny in many ways was a nationalist in attacking not attacking Putin from the right, but was not like trying to be some big squishy liberal. He thought that yes, his path to uh taking down Putin was focusing on kleptocracy and also just coming at him from like like a far more conservative perspective.

That's right. That's exactly right. And and look, we should just say, like, these guys have put Victor Orban, if he wins, it's because, you know, he's got the media completely on his side in Hungary. He's God knows what corruption's happening. He's got the Russian television services helping him. Whoever if he wins and ekes out a win, like that's kind of status quo anti.

If Victor Orban loses this election, it is a seismic event. It is a fucking earthquake in global politics. Uh, and we should and and we and by the way, we should insist that it is one because you know what? These guys put all the chips on him. JD Vance flew there to b bolster him in the middle of the phone. Like he was bolstering like a yeah in the map. Like like he's campaigning for a midterm election congressional district right before the election.

So this will be humiliating to Trump. It would be a huge setback to the far right in Europe. It would be a wind in the sails of of Democrats in my small D Democrats in Europe, particularly in Central and Eastern Europe, where they've been fighting some tough battles. Um, so like you know. The Pod Saved the World Endorsement is with Maggie R like such as it matters.

Yeah it would yeah yeah it would be seismic. I mean it'd be credible for the European Union, it'd be great for the continent, it'd be great for it'd be great for like Some wind in the sails that progresses all over the world. I wanna um I just wanna quickly trigger you if that's okay. Um I was watching uh the Vance Orban press conference. And I wanted to play you a little clip uh that I that I enjoyed greatly. Um this is uh again our vice president in Budapest.

Twanna say something, one final observation uh about this election. What has happened in this country, what has happened in the in the midst of this election campaign, is one of the worst examples of foreign election interference that I've ever seen or ever even read about. Democrats in Brussels have tried to destroy the economy of Hungary. They have tried to make Hungary less energy independent. They have tried to drive up costs for Hungarian consumers, and they have to be able to do that.

But I think Not who's pro or anti Europe, not who's pro or anti the United States of America, but who is pro you, who is pro the people of Hungary. Uh how about the absolute incredible hypocrisy of the Vice President of the United States? Yeah.

going to stump for Victor Orban and then complaining about foreign election interference. By the way, with all the context that we know about Trump, you know, remember when he t he offered Argentina a twenty billion dollar bailout and told voters there that like either you know, vote with uh Javier Malay or else like the US would cut off support. Like these guys are brazenly interfering in elections all over the place. And he's still JD Vance is still like his he's a one note

Like tiny little man, fucking pathetic little baby loser. And he's whining about bureaucrats in Brussels. Cause that's like all he can, that's his entire playbook at

Yeah. I mean you hit that point. Uh only I'd add is On the substance. Viktor Urban and his cronies have been stealing EU money for years. The EU provides billions of dollars in assistance to Hungary, because it's one of the poorer countries in the EU for things like infrastructure projects. And all the money just gets skimmed off the top and goes to enrich Orban's cronies and finances politics.

So if the he's got problems with Brussels, yeah, part of it's that he's way out of step with the Europe on things like Ukraine, but part of it's that he's been fucking stealing from Europe, right? And that's why they don't want to keep shoveling money to the guy.

Um so not that JD Vance cares about that. Uh so I and for him, I mean the Ukrainians are being bombed and invaded for him to to accuse it it is such an atrocity like that this guy is sitting there taking pot shots at people that are a million times tougher than he is. Uh, and have sacrificed a million times more than he has for democracy. Spare me the lectures about election interference from Budapest JD.

The other weird comment he made, Ben, is he said like he was doing some weird bit about how Orban's leadership is a model for how other European leaders should be dealing with the energy crisis in Europe, which as far as I can tell Like Orban gave like huge government subsidies or basically just like forced like state agencies to absorb a bunch of costs.

Then they were super pro Russia and they just like advocated either for purchasing oil and gas from the Russians or removing sanctions from the Russians. And now they're sucking up to Trump, even though He is creating this new massive energy crisis via the war with Iran. It's just like w what does he think vote like I guess he thinks voters everywhere are stupid. Maybe that's just the answer.

He does. I mean, he he he thinks he can like JD Vance them, you know. And I uh this shtick is just growing really old. Because look, you know what? Who in America, the only people that give a shit about this are like the ideologues at like the Claremont Institute. You know, like it it's it's like far right intellectuals. Like it's not like

you know, the working folks of Ohio that JD Vance represents or claims to represent are sitting there, you know, in rural Ohio being like, you know what we really need? We need an Orban victory in the Hungarian election. Like you're who's the fucking elitist cosmopolitan? Like give me a break, JD Vance. Go to back to Ohio and like actually talk to people who can't afford their bills instead of like spending taxpayer money to fly to stump for somebody that probably nobody in Ohio has heard of.

It is very weird. And there is also, by the way, I mean, remember Tucker Carlson did his week of programming from Oh yeah. Yeah. Big t big time. Big time. Um the the the way the way politics is kind of getting reshuffled right now is very interesting. I mean, this was probably inevitable and bound to happen in some ways because Trump is essentially a lame duck president and everyone's kind of, you know, jostling for uh their spot in figuring out what's next. But there's no doubt that

Tucker was right when he told Trump that, you know, the war in Iran would end his presidency and would be the undoing of him, uh, and potentially the MAGA project. And uh it does feel like We're at the beginning of that happening and it's happening more rapidly than frankly I would have expected, but I'm not sad about it.

Not said about okay. Well, uh that's it for us today. Thank you for listening. Thanks for subscribing to Pod Save the World, uh wherever you get your podcasts or here on YouTube. And we'll talk to you guys soon. Podsave the World is a crooked media production. Our senior producer is Alona Minkowski. Our producer is Michael Goldsmith. Our associate producer is Anisha Bonerjee.

We get production support from Saul Rubin. Our executive producers are me, Tommy Vitor, and Ben Rhodes. The show is engineered, mixed, and edited by Jordan Cantor, audio support by Charlotte Landis. Thank you to our digital team, Den Hefcote.

Mia Kelman, William Jones, David Tolls, and Ryan Young, Matt DeGrote is our head of production. Adrian Hill is our senior vice president of news and politics. If you want to listen to Podsay the World ad-free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to Crooked.com slash friends to subscribe. On Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. Don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter for more original content.

host takeovers and other community events. Please subscribe to Pod Save the World on YouTube for access to full episodes, bonus content, and much more. And if you're opinionated like us, leave a review. Our production staff is proudly unionized by the Writers Guild of America.