Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm John Faberum. I'm John Loveett. Tommy's on vacation this week though, not sure how restful it's been. On today's show, Kamala Harris adds some Democratic All-Stars to her staff as she and her new running mate barnstormed the battlegrounds this week. Trump is in meltdown mode as he refuses to debate Kamala Harris without a security blanket of Maga supporters and winds about her crowd size in Atlanta.
In RFK Jr. tweets a video of him telling Roseanne about the time he hit a dead bear cub in Central Park when he ran out of time to eat it. More on that later. Yeah, following this developing story. You can just go back a couple seconds. I did say that sentence just to hear it again. Yeah, the dead bear cub in Central Park. Under a bicycle.
We're going to get into it. But first, we are recording this Monday afternoon, but by the time you hear it on Tuesday, it is highly likely that Kamala Harris will have announced her running mate. Reporting indicates the campaign will be releasing a video just before the VP appears with her VP pick at a rally in Philly on Tuesday night.
She's looking to keep their momentum going for the third straight week. The polling averages and models are now showing a tied race and a few like Nate Silvers even have Harris in the lead for the first time. Her outstanding campaign team is also getting some help from some of the most successful campaign operatives in the Democratic party.
We'll also happen to be our good pals David Plough who led Barack Obama to victory in 2008 and 2012 is joining as senior advisor Mitch Stewart who ran the Iowa caucuses for Obama in 08 and went on to oversee all the swing states in 2012 will be a senior advisor for battleground states. Long time Democratic comms pros Stephanie cutter Jen Paul Mary are heading back in and the list goes on gangs all here Obama's 11. That's pretty good. I didn't even prepare that.
That just happened. David binders going to be there. It's just they got a great crew in general. Malay Dylan of course. A Obama person before she was a Biden person remains campaign manager and her fantastic team that has been working on this campaign now probably in their minds forever. So we will get to the VP selection in a bit. But first what was your reaction to the staffing news and what are talking about some of the challenges of adding all that new talent to an existing campaign.
I like to have two reactions which was first to once again pause to note. How well the campaign has done under extraordinarily strange and unique circumstances that something there was such a dramatic shift in how the campaign operated once.
The comment came the person that they were rallying behind that just spoke to how much talent was already there waiting to be deployed. If they had kind of I think the right energy the right enthusiasm and the right person to get behind the other strange aspect of all of this is.
We went through this in 2008 after Obama secures the nomination that campaign has to grow there's this Hillary Clinton campaign sitting side by side with it that had been fighting it through every single state that also had a lot of really great and talented people.
And so as that Obama campaign becomes a general election campaign it's supposed to a primary campaign you see them starting to hire some of the people they fought so hard against and that integration process is is interesting it's personal it's people deciding that they're going to put the campaign fights behind them there's questions about like like you know it's often some of the hardest people are like spokes people who might have been out there saying things about the campaign but I'm the most part everybody recognizes that we're now on the same team what's interesting here is there wasn't a primary that is.
That didn't take place but the Biden campaign was I think first of all had fewer senior leaders in Delaware was like more run out of the White House so they just need these kind of voices to come into the fold to like help a team that's already doing so well yeah there's a few reasons why I think they they needed this crew partly because Joe Biden had been in politics for so long that he had this sort of small circle senior advisors that were really close to him Mike Donnellen.
I need a done who's now going to be at a super PAC supporting Kamala Harris Steve Rashetti few others so I think that that Kamala Harris inherited like everyone from Jen O'Malley Dylan on down that whole staff like could stay right where they are and they're going to be fantastic and they've been and they've been great but she needs people who have been like on a successful national presidential campaign to be communications and messaging advisors and to sort of be like you know what I'm saying
to sort of be like your big think strategist kind of people right and that's what Plough does and that's what cutter and Paul Mary do and certainly Mitch when it comes to the battleground states so it is a fantastic crew it gave me like a lot of I just felt really good.
Oh yeah no you said security blanket it just it felt like it felt like a security blanket and then and just the fact that like this is also like they're not drawing on a year of what it was like for Kamala Harris to be campaigning in Michigan Wisconsin
Pennsylvania which you might have had if there had been a longer primary or a longer campaign so of course they need people who have a ton of experience that you know making strategy for those kinds of places because they haven't been on the ground testing things and and trying things and figuring out what works and she knows them and they know each other
right like Jen knows all the Obama people obviously because she was one and Kamala Harris one of Barack Obama's earliest supporters in 2007 she was like I remember being in the Des Moines Iowa field office with her and Maya Harris like knocking on doors right before the caucus is in
the way so the whole like I know when everyone was waiting for Obama to endorse Kamala Harris there was like some some questions like oh does he really support whatever like they've known each other for a long long time and are quite close was I'm like my brain was a joke where he got in trouble yes yes and it was president did say that she was one of the she's a great attorney general one of the best looking attorney generals in the country and then did and then we did a joke at the car
on his inner where Barack Obama references the fact that he said this about attorney general Kamala Harris and said he had to apologize for calling a common Harris the best look at turning general the country he had to apologize to Eric holder right that was good joke that's a good joke I'm glad you apologize anyway just something happened campaigns also bringing back our pal Liz Allen who's currently the undersecretary of state for public diplomacy to be the chief of staff for Kamala's VP pick
Liz was VP Harris's communications director when she was the VP pick back in 2020 so this is a little inside baseball but I do think the other challenge with bringing on a running mate is integrating the two teams because you pick a running mate and then you need an entire staff for the running
mate and higher campaign operation for the running mate what are some of the considerations there was just that the day the person is chosen to be the vice president candidate their plugged into an organization and a schedule that is full right there and that is it that is an operation that takes a ton of people and whoever it is whether they're a senator or a governor or a secretary of transportation or what have you they don't have that kind of operation and more
that operation isn't plugged into the campaign and because you don't know maybe until the day where you know we're recording this on Monday afternoon the campaign is telling people right now that she hasn't made her mind up this will be someone at an event tomorrow then you just have to have that organization built and then you assume that once the person is chosen
they will bring along their people that will plug into this operation and then it just becomes an organic question of personalities and people working together and figuring out how to make it work in real time sometimes sometimes is easier than other times yeah you need you need some
Harris people on the team in this case Harris people to make sure the VP is on message isn't like doing their own thing yeah but you also want to make the beat the VP pick feel comfortable with some of their own people so it's just a question of it's you know it is almost always worked in the
situation that I've been in I was we were on the carry campaign when John Edwards was picked and those teams integrated quite well into the point we were just making about adding all the staff back then when carry when the primary and it was the general a lot of
Bill Clinton's advisors and strategists like joined the campaign in DC as like pollsters strategist whatever else and then in the Obama campaign Biden and the Biden people sort of fit in very well and everyone got along and it was it was great I remember when the
Obama campaign named Hillary Clinton's former campaign manager pettis Lee Stoyle to the chief of staff to whoever the VP would be who turned out to be Joe Biden do you remember in 2004 when there was tension because John Edwards wanted to use hope is on the way versus help is on the way yes and there was like there was stupid things it was and so that the is a placard at the convention yes as a placard he wanted to do so the carry campaign message was help is on the way and it worked
helped never came yeah and yeah yeah sort of yeah door dashes cancel your order for John but but but Edwards wanted to do hope because I was his he wanted you hope so he wanted you his version which was hope is on the way so on his night they were just completely different signs for hope is on the way what does this have to do with pettis Lee Stoyle and anything else just
does do some tension between the vice presidential candidate. Okay, sometimes they bring their own either that was clear you would you get a nod getting nods Adrian's it's great. Okay, all right as for the VP pick as much as we hope selfishly it would have leaked by the time of this
recording. I guess we still got time. It hasn't the latest reporting is that the final choice has come down to Pennsylvania governor Josh who's a hero and Minnesota governor Tim Walsh and of course the reporting could be wrong we can all be surprised by a dark course who knows but here's what we're going to do for all you find people we're going to do one reaction as if it's Shapiro one reaction as if it's walls and one reaction as if it's a total surprise and we're going to really put it we're
going to really try to put ourselves in that mindset. All right, let's do it. Ready, here we go. Love it. She did it. Kamala Harris chose Pennsylvania governor Josh Shapiro as her vice presidential pick always knew is going to be Shapiro always wanted to be Shapiro. I love walls but secretly I really wanted Shapiro. What do you think? Why'd she do it and what does Josh Shapiro bring to the ticket? So first of all Josh
Shapiro is a very popular governor in Pennsylvania popularity that has exceeded recent Pennsylvania governors up to this point. And he is also one in parts of Pennsylvania where he has outperformed even other figures that are that are popular state like John Federman. He is a former attorney general so now we have two attorney generals going after a criminal. I really like what that story says and he fixed I 95 which is one of your biggest one of the biggest
pluses for you fucking weeks. You've been talking about that forever. I have some huge fan Josh. I think she chose the person who is most likely to help her win the election. Yeah. And the reason is because the importance of Pennsylvania
cannot be overstated. If Kamala Harris does not win Pennsylvania, it is very, very difficult. She has very few path to 270 without Pennsylvania. If she does Arizona Michigan Nevada Wisconsin doesn't work with Pennsylvania Arizona Georgia Nevada Wisconsin doesn't work with Pennsylvania like there's so many she has to basically run the table on not just the other
blue wall states, but Arizona and Georgia and Nevada are some combination of those three if she doesn't have Pennsylvania. So that's why it's known as the tipping point state. So incredibly important to win Pennsylvania. Now just Josh Shapiro automatically get her Pennsylvania absolutely not. But like you said, wildly popular 60%
or privilirating doesn't happen a lot, including an approval rating of over 90% with Democratic voters with young voters with black and brown voters like he's just he's super popular. He's young dynamic executive experience, which is what she wanted. There were criticisms of Shapiro for on a few different issues. One was Israel. Some folks in love for concern that Josh Shapiro, you know, when he was 20, he wrote a college essay.
He said something that he didn't believe in a two state solution. He now does believe in a two state solution. He said, he said some other things in that essay that I think he clearly doesn't believe any more.
Yeah, when he was in college, 20 years old. There was also some concern about like what he said about campus protesters, even though he said every campus protester has a right to protest peacefully and that like the vast majority of encampments in college protesters were like he had no problem.
They were not anti-Semitic. He said that specifically, but he said those protesters who were spouting anti-Semitic tropes specifically explicitly. He said if white supremacists were doing something like that, we would treat them differently. Yeah, so in that, this is I think people have said that he's comparing student protesters to the KKK, which I think is like a deeply ungenerous interpretation, not only of that sentence, but the broader interview.
He's simply saying that if someone was spouting something really, really anti-Semitic that if a member of the KKK was saying something really, really racist that you should not hold these things to the same standard. But in that same interview, he says, because Jake Tapper confronts him and says, these are not protesters coming from the right. These are protesters coming from the left.
He says, even though we may disagree on policy, that these are people with strongly held and even righteous views. He says that in the same interview. So obviously he is not in the same breath describing student protesters as righteous members of the KKK. He's making a distinction, which I like. He was obviously not saying that. Let's leave it there.
When the other issue was, he had some opposition to his support for some kind of school vouchers and charter schools, though I'll point out that the Pennsylvania chapters of the American Federation of Teachers and another Pennsylvania State Union did endorse him. And they actually said, we don't agree with everyone on every issue, but he's been really good on education overall. And so we're going to support Josh Shapiro.
So I do think, look, the divisions and opposition to Shapiro that have appeared on Twitter and in the media, they are real, right? But they are just not representative of how most voters or most democratic voters feel about Josh Shapiro, particularly democratic voters who know him in Pennsylvania, very progressive ones, very young voters, all of them.
And by the way, that doesn't mean having these criticism of Josh Shapiro's positions is an avowed thing to express and to make sure that the Harris Shapiro campaign doesn't honor what your concerns are, right? Like this campaign will reflect this big broad coalition. And so the question is not what is Josh Shapiro's position or what was his position? It is what is the position of this campaign and this presidency, which will obviously come from vice president Kamala Harris.
So if people have concerns, they should express them, right? But this campaign is in a reflection of the views of Josh Shapiro that you disagree. And again, Pennsylvania in 2020, Joe Biden won by one to two points. Okay. And right now the polls are tied. And if Josh Shapiro even helps Kamala Harris half a point in Pennsylvania, three quarters of a point in Pennsylvania, it could mean the entire election.
And so like that's that everything that Kamala Harris has done since Joe Biden stepped aside and she announced her campaign has screamed. I'm in it to win it. I'm in it to win this thing. I'm going to do it. And I do think that's that is the Josh Shapiro pick in a nutshell. I think if Josh Shapiro, all things being equal if Josh Shapiro was the governor of Minnesota and Tim Walsh was the governor of Pennsylvania with everything else being equal.
I think that of course she would pick Tim Walsh and not Josh Shapiro because it's Pennsylvania. Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah. Okay. Love it. She did it. She did it. Kamala Harris has been Walsh Pilled and selected the Minnesota governor as her vice presidential pick. What do you think? Why she do it?
I knew it was going to be Walsh and I secretly honestly I didn't want to say but I always wanted to be fucking Walsh. I was Walsh Pilled from the fucking beginning. It was always meant to be Walsh.
I think it was his appearance right here on Pots of America. He came into the office just a month or two before that with Tommy before the whole Walsh Pilled craze. Yeah, he got us get a seat at the goddamn table. All right. What does Walsh bring to the ticket? Why'd she do it in the end? What's going on? So first of all, I think it is amazing how Tim Walsh has gone from who to the vice presidential pick in a matter of weeks in part just on this.
You were very clear about that with him on the interview. I was. Guys, we had hiding this guy in the fucking in a bushel. You know, he should be shining in the tundra. Yeah. He should be shining. That's what that was. Yeah. Yeah. In the iron mines.
Yeah. I had him in the dairy. But first of all, it is an incredible thing to do a vice presidential audition and issue a message that like catches fire nationwide. That's first. And then I think second, once people started hearing from Tim Walsh and seeing how he did it. And seeing how he delivers a message and then diving into his background and his story, not just about where he comes from, but how he's governed.
He became an exciting kind of representation of what we want this ticket to be. Even if obviously Josh Shapiro might bring more to one state that Tim Walsh brings something to the whole ticket to compete not just in Minnesota, but Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan.
Yeah. If you're going just by what is going to help Kamala Harris win, you could say that Tim Walsh sounds and looks like the kind of voter who made us had the election, which is the Obama Trump voter from a small town or rural area who is tired of Trump, but not necessarily sold on Kamala Harris. Maybe they weren't they might not have been sold on Joe Biden.
Because of his age or whatever else, they might not yet be sold on Kamala Harris because you know she's portrayed as a San Francisco liberal, right. But Tim Walsh, you can send into any small town in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan.
And he is going to connect with people like he's been connecting with people all through this audition process. I think that he's obviously fantastic on TV. And according to John Hyalman and Puck, that caught the eye of Kamala Harris herself and some people close around her.
So she really liked that he was he performed so well on television. The resume, of course, is outstanding veteran social studies teacher football coach rural town wildly accomplished record as governor in Minnesota with the Democratic trifecta like just with a with a with a with a one vote majority. I mean like they they like they have put places like California and New York to fucking shame.
They like have used the power that they were given and they've been unafraid of doing it. And it's been really awesome watching Tim Walsh defend that record when he's asked about it, right. Like, oh, are you too liberal? And he's like, I'll never apologize for for making sure kids have food in their bellies when they're learning in school. And so I think that was all very inspiring. And like, obviously there is a contradiction here and like, well, what are you looking to get out of your VP? Right. One is just like we got to win fucking Pennsylvania. Yeah, that's what we need Josh Piro. The other is people don't vote based into the VP is right Paul Ryan didn't deliver Wisconsin. The VP pick is a reflection.
Of the person at the top of the ticket. And what does it tell you about them? And that what Tim Walsh says is more powerful, not just in Pennsylvania, but in Michigan in Wisconsin in everywhere we have to win. And also like Shapiro would have been he is young dynamic executive experience governor, right. That's what that's what she wanted. And also he ended up getting a lot of endorsements at the end.
So everyone from you had Nancy Pelosi and Dorstam Bernie Sanders the UAW or at least said that they wanted him to pick. And I do think that speaks to probably why she ended up with him over Shapiro is this is the let's not rock any votes pick.
And like most people in party won't be upset. Some pundits, some folks will say she caved to progressives, but I don't really think that matters as much as like what she says and does with regards to her own position and messaging, right. Like whatever her VP is. Yeah. Now the the challenges he probably he has a bunch of votes in a record that probably haven't been as vetted because he wasn't like the front runner like Shapiro. But that's like a small that's a small thing.
Yeah, the other I also like I just like the story of it and what it says about her right like Tim Walsh wasn't anyone's short list from the beginning. And the fact that like from this process he emerges and she kind of defies the expectation where which started with Kelly and Shapiro and Pritzker and a few others and ends up going with this Minnesota governor that doesn't deliver that.
That is from a state that if we need were in trouble elsewhere anyway, it'll kind of like speak to the leadership qualities you want in your president, right. That they like that she sat down and felt most comfortable with this person based on who he is based on some other not based on some like kind of objective political calculus. Love it. Wow. Yeah. Complete surprise. Maybe for you. A dark horse just fell out of the coconut tree.
Kamala Harris for her running mate has selected George Santos. Yeah, no, I was I was new was going to be somebody like Santos out of left field kind of I don't know how to have it. But I mean, I guess I guess we could still get a Kelly. We could still get a bishier. Who else? You know, it seems like that they're signaling that it's that it's a governor.
But you know, it could also be a Pete right I guess Pete schedule. Yeah, I just saw the Pete schedule is like the main or just he's elsewhere. Yeah, I mean look, I there's a lot of speculation and like, you know, this is the person that she's leaning towards as a person that's like nobody really knows the decision she's making right now.
Just her and Doug. Yeah, I mean, look, I again, I'll say this before we know who it's going to be. I genuinely will be very happy if it's either walls or Shapiro. I haven't sat down with these people like she has right like I don't I didn't do the interview process. I didn't look at the internal polling in Pennsylvania to see exactly how much Josh Shapiro helps her doesn't help.
So like in my mind when I think about, you know, I've been in it to win at the entire time. This is why we thought that Biden should step aside right this whole thing. It's like this. This is an about ideologies of personalities is about how can we beat Donald Trump. So I lean like slightly towards Shapiro for that. But again, I think walls has so much upside and so much talent that I would be like very happy. Yeah, I either though.
My feeling on this is that like I also would be happy either way and like have interviewed them both and come away from my interviews with both being like extraordinarily excited and impressed. And when we were like I like when I interviewed Shapiro when we were in in Pennsylvania.
I was Shapiro pill and I've been Shapiro pill. I'm taking both pills. All right. I got a Shapiro pill. I got a walls pill. All right. I take them both every morning with a glass of whole maybe that gets you a dark horse.
But there was a story that I think I don't remember when it came out. But it was a it was a story that came out after the Kerry Edwards campaign about an uncomfortable moment between John Kerry and John Edwards where Edwards said something to John Kerry about his son who passed away.
And how he told John Kerry. I've never told anyone this story. But I want to tell you this story. And it was meant to convey to John Kerry how much John Edwards was moved by the opportunity to be vice president but it made John Kerry deeply uncomfortable because John Edwards had forgotten that he'd already told John Kerry that story.
And despite his misgivings about John Edwards as a person, he chose John Edwards. He didn't trust his gut. He went a different direction. And I just think with this kind of decision.
And John Edwards is untrustworthy. He's in he's in purgatory. He can't get out of purgatory because of what happened and everything else. But but but I don't even know is John Edwards lives in another world between life and death. But anyway, all that's way of saying like I think all the calculations aside, like I think something about walls feels very exciting in this moment. And I don't know you can't put your finger exactly on why. But that makes me lean a little towards towards my man walls.
There's one other big unresolved question about the next few months and that's whether there will be at least one debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump late last week. Trump said he's back out of the previously scheduled ABC debate on September 10th because Joe Biden pulled out of the race and because he's suing ABC over that contentious George Stephanopoulos interview way back when, which I can barely remember.
Trump said that he instead wants to attend a Fox News debate on September 4th in Pennsylvania with quote a full arena audience and attendance. The Harris campaign did not take the bait. Kamala Harris wrote on Twitter quote it's interesting how anytime any place becomes one specific time one specific safe space. I'll be there on September 10th like he agreed to I hope to see him there. Awesome. Why do you think Trump backed up.
I think he's an undisciplined mess and wanted to give Kamala Harris like it doesn't realize he's giving Kamala Harris yet another great news cycle. I also think he wants to renegotiate these debates on more favorable terms like the reality is that like Donald Trump can't get more no one in history has ever gotten more out of a debate than Donald Trump got out of the first debate.
It is not possible for him to get anything better out of this debate. He really only I think it's hard to see how he doesn't stand to lose. So that means I think he has more to lose, which means he has more reason to pull out and try to renegotiate slightly better terms. Right.
Yeah. First of all, we should say that his excuses are bullshit. The suit against ABC was filed in March before he already agreed to the ABC debate with Biden. So the whole George Stephanopoulos thing is not a real that's not a real excuse. He's generally scared to debate. He wasn't the primaries. The Republican primaries. He just wasn't scared to debate Joe Biden.
And then he had the appearance we talked about last week at the National Association of Black Journalists where he just had a fucking meltdown and was completely undisciplined and unhinged. And I think he probably feels like he's going to look old and probably too angry and a little unhinged next to Kamala Harris.
It's also a lot of work. He has to do work. He doesn't want to do the work. He's doing one event this week. He just really doesn't want to work very hard. He was very pleased with the schedule Joe Biden had him on. Because neither because because he could just he could he could you know go out on the golf course to hide the the bride and groom do a do a couple videos.
Back to his iPad DJing. Marlaga once the trial was over. Now he is probably thinking that by trying to go for the Fox thing. It will be conflated in voters minds as like she wanted her media outlet. He wanted his media outlet. They couldn't agree too bad. It's all a mess. Like that's what he's going for now. What do you think of Harris's response? I think it's great. I think it's like everything is about this new.
An energetic campaign versus this old and lumbering and boring and spent Donald Trump. The fact that he's playing into it is delightful and great. You know we talked about how it can be hard. Especially this phase of the campaign to keep winning new cycles or like to keep to keep out there. And this is just a way to keep that going. Gets you to the VP pick the VP pick gets you the convention. The convention gets you to the fall.
The idea that Kamala Harris should ever agree to a Fox News debate with an audience with a Fox News selected audience is completely insane. It's just like of course not of course that's what Donald Trump wants. He wants to turn this into a cage match. Right. And I do find it like it's interesting. Thinking about so basically the Harris campaign believes that ABC has said when they agreed that if one of them backs out they will still hold the debate and give that one candidate airtime.
Now that is quite valuable for Kamala Harris to have 90 minutes to herself on prime time. I do wonder if then I mean she'll still have to prep for that because there's going to be journalists who are like well we're going to ask her super tough questions.
Right now if she you know does well there then she will have been introduced on her own terms and define been able to define herself in front of an extremely large audience just weeks before early voting starts in Pennsylvania on September 16th by the way.
Yeah so like that's a real I guess I know it's September 10th so six days before early voting starts. It's a little bit you know I see the the the the campaign saying I'll be there and this will be happening whether Trump comes or not is quite a quite a nice thing quite a nice thing for the campaign to be able to say I wonder if ABC wouldn't feel obligated to offer Trump an interview as well kind of in the same format.
And the debate and due to interviews. Yeah they could do that. Yeah I also like it. I also think it like it matters what happens with the polling like you know the we now see like the Nate silver model now has. Kamala head for the very first time that if you dive into the numbers if you go based on where the averages are at in every state it is right now according to that model 270 to 268 right Kamala winning by two electoral votes one of which is the Nebraska electoral vote.
So this thing is fucking tied so close and if there's this 300 million dollar word chest the campaign is getting into a good swing Trump is having bad news cycle after bad news cycle Kamala Harris is having good news cycle after good news cycle if the polls start to shift I think Trump will start to become more and more open to a debate and I do think now.
The negotiations are back to being open and like honestly I don't I don't think that that's unreasonable right like it is a different candidate I think that he should just accept the ABC debate because that's probably something more akin to what the format should be and would be if they just.
He negotiated this anyway no it's not going to be the Fox News fucking Thunderdome with with Sean had a bunch of mega goons sitting behind him like that's obviously ridiculous because I'll just in negotiation.
Yeah I'm trying to think about to your point about the polls like so she announces her VP that usually is a good couple news cycles you know if it's Shapiro I'm sure there'll be some some gripping on the left and there'll be a little democratic division thing here and there but overall it'll probably a good week then we have next week and then there's the convention and a convention for whichever party has the convention is always good for them you always get some kind of bounce or at least you don't get overtaken during the convention you know because you're out of the game.
You know because you're on TV all the time and so we're all of the other Democrats making the case for you so the convention then ends around August 22nd so now we're like weeks from voting beginning but to the debate because that so then what I'm trying to think of like if if Kamala Harris is either still tied or ahead at what point would Donald Trump feel like he actually need that debate and then also yes but then there's also what happens between
the Democrats and whoever the Democratic person there's going to be a vice presidential debate while the presidential candidate is refusing are they going to refuse to do both that's deeply strange to now you got walls or Shapiro barnstorming the country saying they wanted to
debate JD Vance which of course they do because what a treat and for all right and Kamala Harris is saying debate me Trump to bait me Trump like one of the reasons Biden proposed this early debate was because they understood that they were in this sort of vicious circle of Trump saying to bait me to bait me to bait me to bait me and so he had to like break out of the
tit for tat to make clear that he wants to debate more than Trump wanted to debate so it didn't seem like a concession like Trump's backing himself into this we're showing up to debate is going to seem like he's afraid right which is why I don't know that he can even if he needs to I don't
know if he can just show up now he might have to do like a third proposal or debate if they like maybe maybe we're headed for like one in ox hober or it is the ABC debate but there's some change to the rules maybe they add like a fucking bread bear or Fox News person or something like that who knows regardless Trump seems quite angry and scared right now which is always when he's at his most effective in
discipline we played the clip last week of Harris in Atlanta saying to Trump if you've got something to say say to my face as the crowd went nuts Trump was in the same venue on Saturday at Georgia State he got a good crowd as well and he was in full insult and grievance mode let's listen crazy Kamala ultra left you know that she was
here a week ago lots of empty seats but the crowds you got was because she had entertainers I don't need entertainers I feel the same because I'm making America great again that's our entertainment that's our entertainment
making America great again she's Bernie Sanders but not as smart that's the way I've said she's a dumb version of Bernie Sanders and actually further left than him we're going to defeat crazy Kamala Kamala you know there's about 19 different ways of saying it she only likes three the choice of this election could not be more stark on the one hand you have a radical left freak you have a candidate who is fake fake fake on the other
hand you have a president who will fight fight fight for America fight fight so he's really he's he's he's he's he's throwing spaghetti at the wall there yeah see what sticks radical a freak we're at we were in trouble we can't call these people weird I think this is challenging because he is used to
like the country had a very set a pinion of Hillary Clinton in 2016 the country has a fairly set opinion of Joe Biden right specifically in 2024 in 2020 they still knew Joe Biden a lot but you know he had not been on the top of the ticket right like Kamala Harris people know her name ideas obviously very high but like they haven't successfully defined her yet she hasn't maybe defined herself yet
but so Trump sort of doing a shortcut by just calling her freak left Bernie Sanders dumb like I don't know that that lens unless you lay the predicate for which is his campaign of not done you know they which they couldn't do because there wasn't time right like I it is
what I was thinking about like you know we don't get credited for being this like idiots of on when it comes to branding and it's like well let's take a step back on that right like wow he managed to paint the dumbest fucking group of those those in the public party is bozos like was that that hard like Hillary Clinton had faced decades of right wing attacks and massage and attacks that left her with an impression in the public as a career politician
and you know Clinton corruption all of that that Donald Trump could pray on Joe Biden's biggest liability Joe Biden first of all he couldn't beat Joe Biden the first time Joe Biden's biggest liability there's never been a candidate with as clear cut a single and powerful and
widely accepted liability as Joe Biden had with age of course that wasn't a fucking tough ball for for Trump to swing at commoners is more difficult right like saying she's of ultra left freak and calling her a funny those are in conflict right this would happen with how McCain dealt with Obama too because it was for a while it was Obama's the biggest celebrity in the world and they tried to say oh it's sort of like this she has entertainers but I'm entertaining because I'm making America great again the McCain campaign did a little bit of that
then they add paylan and then Barack Obama is palin around with terrorists sinister other there's Barack Obama the lightweight Barack Obama inexperienced Barack Obama professional and I mean there's they try to a whole bunch of different things and again a lot of those are in conflict right like a Barack Obama's too smart Barack
Barack Obama's too inexperienced like you know obviously black not black enough all of that and like with with you know he also by the way like last week you know went into this racist and a lot of people like there was an insinuation in his post about he was trying to use the racial attack to claim that she's a phony in some way like she uses her identity the way she uses everything right which is a subtle nod to all the right wing freaks that are saying that
comahir slept her way to the top which is an attack they want to use against her which is obviously a misogynist and ridiculous libel so like he's kind of casting about and a lot of these are kind of I think the kinds of attacks that are really going to backfire
like obviously like this sort of like disgusting accusation that he's trying to insinuate is not going to be effective with a lot of people who understand that this is the kind of attack that is that is basically pointed at anyone who's not a straight white male who's had some success and people want to
slime yeah. Trump also made some news at the rally that I'm sure his campaign was hoping for he attacked a popular Republican governor of a crucial swing state here's what he said about Georgia governor Brian Kemp.
Your governor Kemp and Raffin's Berger is doing everything possible to make 2024 difficult for Republicans to win that what are they doing I don't know they got something in mind you know they got a little something in mind Kemp is very bad for the Republican party who wasn't for me he would not be your governor I think everybody knows that he's the most
this loyal guy I think I've ever seen somewhere he went bad and you know what your numbers in Georgia a very average your crime numbers your economics numbers all of your numbers your very average you can do a lot better and you'll do a lot better with a better governor he's running against Kamala Harris it's incredible it's incredible in a post before the event Trump also went after Kemp's wife for not endorsing him
and I can't responded with the tweet saying my focuses on winning this November and saving our country from Kamala Harris and the Democrats not engaging in petty personal insults attacking federal Republicans or dwelling on the past you should do the same Mr. President and leave my family out of it who message delivered Brian Kemp.
That has to be put it in the fucking time capsule one of the most humiliating embarrassing statements I've ever seen from a public you keep this up Mr. Trump you just as hard like if the guys negotiating he's always negotiating stop attacking my wife and let's focus on working together yeah stop attacking my wife so that I can
keep helping you you're making it harder for me to help you because of all the attacks are leveling against my family it's very Ted Cruz very Ted Cruz but also it's attacking the popular governor of a swing state you need is
that a good strategy what what what is he doing it he must have just like it's like he's upset he's upset he's in a state he's in a state Trump has been in a state for the last three weeks and he's lashing out yes he he lucky just he'll settle down he'll settle down he doesn't
numb them but but yeah like it's like he saw a bad poll and he pitched forward to losing and eating somebody to blame and so if he's going to lose Georgia he's not going down for this Brian Kemp's going down for this and by the way Brian Kemp has a a pretty big and sophisticated campaign operation in the state of Georgia that has helped him win several races and you know I do I think Kemp's going to just like turn it off and not help him from that tweet clearly not but you know there's things
people can do short of like given that they're all for for candidate absolutely yeah right like do so Brian Kemp's going to have a lot of like a lot like he's going to have others there's other seats there's local races is a ton of stuff that's going to mean he's going to want to mobilize his operation but is he going to be a strongly barn stirring ground across the state trying to help Donald Trump win like I don't see why I would I don't think so and Georgia is now one of the states where
Kamala Harris is catching Donald Trump and she you know it's down to a couple points now in Georgia which it had not been when when Biden was running this time around it obviously was you know the polling in Georgia in 2020 had Biden behind by a couple points most of the time and then at the end the Biden campaign was like we're going to play in Georgia and there were a lot of eyebrows raised I was sort of like what what are they doing in Georgia and then they
want and it were paid off so like the Georgia's one of those states where the very voters that Kamala Harris is doing better with and Biden had younger voters black voters brown voters Asian American voters that the state of Georgia is becoming more diverse and becoming younger because of all the people moving there and moving to like the Atlanta metro area so that is it's a it's a it's a it could be a good stay for her and I just like one of
the reasons Brian camp is governor is it is true it is in part because of Donald Trump but not in the way Donald Trump thinks is because Brian camp looked moderate in comparison to Donald Trump and their voters out there their voters out there that are camp war knock voters camp also voters like those are people that could make the difference in November and those are all people that are going to be turned off by Trump and reminded of all
the reasons they were against Trump in the first place and by the way a lot of those people just like left the top of the ticket blank in 2020 it's not even like they voted for Joe Biden they just didn't want about for for Donald Trump okay before we go we're going to talk about someone we haven't talked about in a while RFK here his polling has fallen to single digits his campaign barely has any money left and he's barely been
seen out on the trail since the Harris Biden switch even canceling some events but on Sunday night he came out of hibernation see where that's going by releasing a video in which he admits to a bizarre story about planting the body of a dead bear cub in central park the details are two nuts for me to even repeat here so we're going to let Kennedy do it for us and our latest rendition of okay stop
Elijah Elijah is in studio today's here in L.A. Elijah are you ready with the tape actually Matt with the tape but yeah right well my script says Elijah so that's why I'm saying Elijah but hey Matt hey one second I would have been ready I was taking a group of people talking about a
bit of a cushion to york up not smelling and then one in a van in front of me hit a bear and killed it okay stop so first of all fucking RFK junior out of the gate at a hundred miles an hour I was taking people falconing in upstate New York you know he's telling
this story to he can only the only person that is famously crazier than he is he is telling the story to Roseanne bar of all people Roseanne and keep in mind this is a video that was filmed by RFK junior campaign and and tweeted out last night in advance of a New Yorker
profile about him and the the point of this video is to get ahead of the story they thought they were pulling something over on the New Yorker it was with this video of him telling the story to Roseanne bar up about him falconing the the the the tweet is try to spin this one
New Yorker and you're like okay I guess I guess probably the New Yorker was going to probably put a pretty bad spin on this story so I'm glad we get to hear it out of the out of the horses mouth I am there I picked up the bear put him in the back of my
van because I was going to skin the bear and it was very good condition and I was just I was going to be my refrigerator okay stock so first of all let's just let's just by the way I just I want to be clear by something a lot of the time the focus on our cave junior
is that he's insane and I think that that's valid but there's often two qualities that are not given as much attention which is one he's super rich and the other is that he's liar right so he are we cemented believe that he saw a van hit a bear and then they put
over and picked up the bear and his first thought was mmm delicious because because well this is serendipitous because I was hungry for bear meat well it is it's like either you don't know how long the bear has been there or you do and so you would like
us to believe that the yeah what yeah if the bear was there a long time I don't care if you put it in the refrigerator maybe that's why he got the brainworms I think a turkey sandwich out on my desk for three hours I have to google whether or not I'm allowed
to eat it you find a bear on the side of the fucking teconic also if you're listening to this you got to watch the video hopefully you're if you're watching on YouTube this is what you got to watch for a zanz do one do one viewing where you're just getting the story then do a viewing where you're just watching the expression on rose and space because what you're seeing right now is a crazy person herself raising her eyebrows even further when he's when he basically says that he's
was going to eat the bear it's it's because our of k-d you years tenor in this entire story is don't you hate it when this happens and Roseanne is like what Roseanne the like Roseanne has lost it obviously but the comedian in her is like I can't believe this person thinks that this is a cool story
to tell all right let's keep going the car to say you get a bear tag for a kill bear instead going back to my home and was just a window into a whole world a way of living that none of us knows about he drove up state with some friends to go fucking falconing came back
in time for dinner in Brooklyn at Peter Lugers cash only by the way Peter Lugers someone to keep in mind and was held up by a baby bear cub on the side of the road and also by the way he's like so Roseanne obviously we pick the bear cub up off the ground and put it in the trunk of my car because it's legal because you in New York state in New York state you can do this if you're asking me about Idaho or Kansas can tell you but I know that in New York state it is legal
if you find a tag and to eat the bear meat you can take that bear meat right off the side of the road and at the end of the dinner it went late and I realized I couldn't go home I took out the airport and the bear was in my car and I didn't want to leave the bear in the car
okay so I just want to pause there and say what he's just describing let's just no no Mr. Kennedy it is probably not a good idea to leave a decomposing fucking bear car kiss in the trunk of your car when you head on a trip I don't know where you're going my friend but no you're right you're smart
you shouldn't leave the bear car kiss in what was the original scheduling idea by the way taking some people falconing back into the city at Pierre Luger's going home to Westchester and then go to the airport I don't know how late was it where was going on it was
it was it was it a what is his life was it a red where's this guy in a rush to fucking get what kind of environmental lawyer is this all right I was drinking people were drinking me yeah bad me oh this was a good idea and I had old bike in my car that somebody had to make it rid of it
I said let's go put the bear in central park and we'll make it look like he got the bike okay stop what the bike happened to be in the car so I just happen to have a bike that I needed to get rid of so Roseanne's laughing there is awesome because he's like so we had this funny idea
isn't that a funny idea to sneak into central park and hide the dead bear under a bicycle and he's like yeah no I can see how people would think that was a funny idea also his excuses like well people were drunk I wasn't drinking but the people
around me were drunk and they had the idea well you get like a contact high kind of like you're around people who have been who've stoned you feel stone even you're not in stone clearly so everybody thought that's a great idea so we like did that and we thought it would be a
music for whoever found it or something the New Yorkers somehow found out about it and they just they're gonna do a big article on man that's one of the articles so they asked me the fact you're just that you know it's gonna be a bad story yeah it is gonna be the way Roseanne was there is also fantastic so I just this is gonna be a bad story that is that is that is shrewd so just so 10 years ago literally 10 years ago in October of 2014 there was a story in New York
and the story was dead baby bear found in central park under a bicycle bear appears to have been murdered and it was a it was a wild who done it the bike was compensated a rfk junior notes that they were gonna try to find prints on the bike it was an incredible mystery because why on earth would anybody have snuck a bear cub dead into central park and hit it where people could find it underneath a bicycle the New York Times reported it at the time and it was
written by Tatiana Schlossberg John F. Kennedy's granddaughter which seems like actually was a coincidence and as the coincidence because she said I didn't know what the time how could she have known at the time that it was her uncle that disposed of the bear with the bike in an attempt to fool people because they thought that was a great idea and I just I really like the Dilla Tantish quality of a group of drunk assholes who just spent the day falconing thinking wouldn't
be droll if we drive into the city and put this dead bear down in their last decade peter luggers unbelievable all the anyway that's that's amazing you think what you think that's gonna get many votes one of the so much you do a poll are you more likely to vote for less likely or no difference this is one of the most disturbed people so also that we've ever dealt with like on the national public stage every story out of him is about to there's something
deeply deeply fucked up about him ten other notes on that also I just this is not the most important thing but I don't know even if he hadn't been traveling if that bear me was going to be good after peter luggers and he had now we know what he got brainwards yeah yeah it's wow good job clear
malone at the New Yorker for uncovering this yeah awesome it's good a quite a profile also and a photo there's a photo there is a photo where he's pretending to be bitten by the dead bear it's disgusting weird shit guys weird shit all right there are probably some people in your life who don't listen to this show but who could benefit from what we're offering here for example processing the rfk bear cub story while the fate of the Republic literally hangs
in the balance you can't get that anywhere else no in all seriousness we love it if you take a few seconds to share this episode of pods of America with a friend or two you guys sharing our show with your networks makes a huge difference
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executive assistant thanks to our digital team Elijah Cohn Hayley Jones Phoebe Bradford Joseph Dutra Ben Heffko Miakhelman Molly Lobel Kierel-Pellaviv and David Toledo Man it feels like just yesterday we were watching two old unpopular men running for the world's most demanding job my how things change in between the when the ad copy is submitted and when we recorded never the last since 1992 every American president except for one has been a white man born
in the 1940s if Trump wins that could span 36 years as the boomers near the end of their political journey John Prado sets out to make sense of their inheritance and their legacy search boom from the economist wherever you listen to your podcast and unlock all episodes by subscribing to economist podcast plus