Can Tim Walz Out-Debate JD Vance?

Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm John Fabru. On today's show, Trump says he'll end shoplifting in America with, quote, one really violent day. Tim Walz and JD Vance head into Tuesday night's VP debate with the race stuck in a dead heat. And the rage in cage in himself, James Carville, stops by to talk about the state of the race and the new documentary about his career and democratic politics. But first, as you all know, the death toll from Hurricane

Helene is now north of 100. There is unbelievable devastation across the southeastern states. And as we're recording this, thousands of people in western North Carolina are still stranded without power, water, or fuel. The normal response to a disaster like this from political leaders would be to pledge support, send relief, figure out how to immediately help people in need. That's what President Biden is doing. That's what Vice President

Harris did when she spoke at FEMA headquarters in D.C. on Monday. Here's a clip. To everyone who has been impacted by this storm and to all of those of you who are rightly feeling overwhelmed by the destruction and the loss, our nation is with you. And President Biden and I and all of the folks behind me are with you. We will continue to do everything

we can to help you recover and to help you rebuild. No matter how long it takes. Over the past 24 hours, I have spoken with Governor Camp of Georgia, Governor Cooper of North Carolina and many local officials. I have shared with them that we will do everything in our

power to help communities respond and recover. And I've shared with them that I plan to be on the ground as soon as possible, but as soon as possible without disrupting any emergency response operations because that must be the highest priority in the first order of business.

So the Republican nominee for President taking a slightly different path, even though local officials, as the VP just mentioned, have asked both campaigns to temporarily stay away from the affected areas so that resources aren't diverted from the emergency response. Trump went to Georgia on Monday to quote, deliver supplies. After he falsely accused the Biden administration and Democratic Governor Roy Cooper of quote, going out of their way

to not help people in Republican areas. Trump also said that Georgia Governor Brian Camp has quote, been having a very hard time getting the president on the phone, which was a little weird when Governor Camp then said, you just spoke to the president on Sunday. How shocked were you guys, the Trump decided to play politics here and by play politics? I mean, tell the most easily refuted lies. Not surprised at all. It is like I was trying

to like, you know, Trump like moves your baseline because he's so fucking crazy. And I was like trying to remember like, well, things have happened before. And I remember with 2004, I was an intern for the Kerry campaign. There happened to have been four hurricanes at Hitflart, Florida in that cycle. And I went back and looked at what happened after that. And there were headlines about how there would be politics, but both the Kerry campaign

and the Bush campaign were very clear. Like we're not playing politics with this. They both talked about how privately people were worried about what the implications would be. Bush got to go be as the AP referred to him, Comfortor and Chief John Kerry waited a few days because he was listening to local authorities. And then he went down there to talk to people and

meet with people. There was a Bill Nelson was a Democratic Senator from Florida toward with him saying we want to John Kerry to come because if he becomes president, we want to understand the damage here. Kerry went to great lengths to say this is a bipartisan moment. And so what you have is two politicians trying to make the most of it politically for being honest, right? There, but we do okay to be cynical about like some aspect of this.

And understanding what they were supposed to do to like at least model being somewhat apolitical. And like Trump just obliterates that instantly, both by going despite even the nonpartisan mayor of that town saying we would have liked for him to come on another fucking day, give us a few days to figure out what we can, what we have to do to dig out of this. But also then make up conspiracies show up in a make America great again had have a little wall of

bricks build a built around him to make it. It's like a you know, disaster photo app. And it's it's gross. I remember there also was an expectation back in the day that candidates would even pull down attack ads or political ads. Generally, I mean, there used to be so much like care and thought put into these things and now he just make stuff up. Trump also said that no one expected a hurricane like this because we're at it's after hurricane

seasons. Absolutely not or dead square in the middle of hurricane season. Everyone expected this to happen. It is only Trump too. I mean, we remember is just in 2012, right? After hurricane Sandy and Barack Obama goes and gives Chris Christie a big hug, which you know, Chris Christie's career in the Trump era. But like where's he's ever gotten like governor camp, Republican governor, Democratic governor Roy Cooper, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, they're

all working together. They're all helping each other out. And then there's Donald Trump out there just try it like just lying. And here's the problem too because the you know, there is the hurricane has disrupted power and and Wi-Fi service out in Western North Carolina. There's sort of like a lack of local news coverage. There's garbage Twitter accounts on the right. And even some on the far left, they're just spreading absolute lies craziness

about like Biden not helping. Meanwhile, there's like hundreds and hundreds of FEMA responders there helping out the federal government's doing like the federal government signed an emergency declaration that like before the hurricane even hit just so that resources would be freed up. I mean, it's just crazy. There's some sequencing to this too. And that's why in these times of crisis, the governors and the president have to work together because

the governor makes a request. And then the White House has to grant it. And that unlocks certain authorities. And in this case, I think Biden could have gotten either an emergency declaration request or a major disaster declaration request, which unlocks even more federal government resources. And he did the major disaster declaration. So Biden literally is doing everything he can in real time. Yeah. It's just it's completely made up. It's not even for Trump.

These things used to be based on like a hint of, oh, did he was a little slow on something to do something? There was just nothing. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Yeah. And there is sort of like a bottom up top down thing because like that there's a conspiratorial mindset that has taken hold on the right that is spread on social media. And I noticed it like as the storm was unfolding, there were already people on social media saying,

where's the federal government? They haven't responded. They're abandoning this region. And you realize like, okay, so that is the mindset that Trump is sort of, I think like part of what led him to be successful and also what he feeds. And then he's just ready to come right on top and to like sort of feed that worse impulse.

What do you guys think of Harris's response so far and what she should do? Obviously, it happens a lot in these situations that the local officials tell politicians not to come right away, but then the politicians don't want to be accused of looking like they don't care so they want to go. Yeah. I mean, I think she's doing everything she should be doing. She got briefed by the head of FEMA. She's talked to Roy Cooper. She went to FEMA today.

I think in terms of the visit, I would just be in constant contact with Roy Cooper's office in North Carolina and figure out the earliest possible time that doesn't repeat relief operations. And you don't have to go to downtown Asheville. You could go to, you know, a county over where FEMA is staging like relief operations and go there and talk to people here directly from folks affected. But I think like showing up is really, really

important. I think the more complicated political question is going to be, do you go with Joe Biden? Do you go separately? Navigating that is going to be, is going to be hard. But I also think, you know, if I were the Harris campaign, I would consider finding a bunch of really good local relief organizations and then sending an email to my list fundraising for them. And then saying to my field staff in Western North Carolina, like, all right,

for the next two weeks, we're not doing campaign stuff. You're putting on a Harris Wall shirt and you're going doing whatever relief is happening. Sandbagging, cleaning up, helping people get food, like whatever it takes, just be in the community representing the Harris Walls campaign. But do what it takes to help those people. I think that would be pretty impactful. Yeah. I think you go, I thought about that too, Tommy. I think she goes with

Biden. Like I think she should go with Biden. It's like, he said he was going to go with Thursday, Friday, their president, vice president. You want to, I mean, like two vises if you don't go with him too. Yeah. No, that's why I'm in like, you know, they, she's not afraid of being, like they've done events together since she's been the nominee. And it's like, it's not a political rally. So I think she's like, you said your

name is Joe. Who's it? Yeah. Who's this? It's a print. It's, it's, it's, it's by Dean, and I heard I wonder if, um, if Trump keeps this up or even now that he's already attacked them for it. Like do you at some point take a shot at Trump, um, for doing this, not in a way that's like, now I'm going to go after you, but just sort of like look, we're trying to work with Republicans, Democrats, we're trying to focus on this. And, you

know, a disaster just hit people in red areas and blue areas. And we're trying to help everyone that we, that we can. And we don't need Donald Trump exploiting people suffering and trying to divide us so he can pick up a few votes. Like, people are tired of this shit kind of thing. And I don't know if maybe walls does that tomorrow night in the debate. I don't know if Harris does it like next week sometime. I mean, you don't want to do it

right now, but like I kind of think you've got to call out his game at some point. If you want it to get traction into like really stop it from happening or at least stop it from affecting. Yeah. I think that's right. I think like, I like sort of stepping back like just, she should just be modeling responsibility. Yeah. I don't know you're not saying otherwise, but like she should be modeling responsibility and what that looks like is not like Trump is

wants to seem responsible and look responsible. So he's being irresponsible. He cares what it looks like not what it is. And she should just do the opposite. And I think if she's asked a question about why she waited or something like that, I think it's like, I don't know if you like go out of your way to do it, but you respond and say there are people that want to use this to exploit a tragedy for political gain. There are people that are thinking only about how it affects

themselves. I'm not going to do that. We're here. We're all Democrats or Republicans. We're all here together trying to rebuild. And like, I think she can take a shot at him that way. I think great. Just as you know, do you sell him the truth? Yeah. It's an, it gets annoying for, and I'm sure for President Biden and people in the government too, because it's like you model responsibility. And then because no one ever pays attention to anything who's not affected by

something, like your model of responsibility just like doesn't just goes unnoticed. Yeah. This is why I think sometimes too, it's like, you know, it's about to be October when the final sprint for this election. So it's not the time to step back and wonder how did we get here? But like, you know, we lay at the feet of Joe Biden, Kamal Harris of any responsible elected figure,

all the sins of the media environment and the craftness of our opponents. And it's like, no, like, yeah, sometimes now, because of how social media works, a politician doing every, like, Joe Biden responding exactly the way he should still doesn't stop a Republican leader from North Carolina or from one of these states saying, where's Joe Biden? He didn't issue the response when he did

exactly as he should have done in response to requests from the government. Or do you hear that reporter shout out, he got a shouted question at the White House after he talked about everything the federal government was doing in the reporters like, why weren't you here, uh, commanding the response over the weekend? Biden was like, I was on the phone for two hours yesterday, like, commanding the response. Right. So you want something to look like. You, you want the wall of bricks

assembled by an advanced. That's right. You want the throwing of the chicken nuggets. Like, you want that. That's what you think you want something that looks like that. You want better TV. You want you want the performance of empathy. Are we going to bomb the hurricane? What are we talking about? You preposition a bunch of assets and you make sure FEMA is on top of it. Like, you need a

competent team. That's what Joe Biden is put in place. Like, people also make the comparison to Bush and Hurricane Katrina and the like Air Force One photo op over New Orleans, which was obviously very bad, but also came on the heels of a 29 day vacation in Crawford, Texas. That's part of why it was so bad. And then on top of that, like the FEMA administrator was a clown who would run the Arabian

horse federation. Remember Brownie and the state local response was terrible. And so he was blamed for like the most important thing that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris can do is make sure that people get the help they need. Yes. That is also the most important political move too. So it's the right thing to do it. That's what I said. Yeah. First of all, it's also very politics. We should note that if Trump had his way, federal government would be shut down right now.

He did not succeed in his attempt to get the problem that he had to shut down the government. Biden signed the continuing resolution. So it'll be funded through the election. And as a lot of Democrats have been pointing out, Project 2025 calls for breaking up and privatizing big parts of the National Weather Service, eliminating small business disaster loans, and raising the threshold for disaster declarations. Is there a policy case for Harris to make here?

Or is that too much? I don't think you do it right now, but I do think as we talk about this in the next couple of weeks, I think referring to all of that, but also stepping back and saying, people, you know, local officials are saying they're not only just going to have to rebuild, they're going to have to rebuild within eye towards being ready for future storms that are even more severe because climate change is having such an obvious impact and reminding people of the

stakes around climate. And the fact that like the investments that like the money to rebuild, the money to invest in infrastructure, like Donald Trump promised he would do it. It was Joe Biden that delivered on these things, whether it's through the infrastructure bill or through the inflation reduction act. I feel like those are all points to me. Yeah, I mean, I think there's two points I'd

make. One is that like events like this are why you need a federal government. It's the only entity in the world that has enough resources to like surge the assets to a place like Asheville in the near term and then rebuild in the long term. And then I also think it's appropriate to talk about how Project 2025 wants to take the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration or NOAA and the National Weather Service and fundamentally change them. They want to privatize the

weather service and commercialize it. And really like the goal here is you have a bunch of anti climate change ideologues who don't want any government data going towards making the case the climate change is real and man made and they want to distort it. So you're going to end up with some natural gas lobbyists in charge of like the National Weather Service or something. I think selling people telling people that is probably worthwhile. They don't like our satellites pointed

down. They're like, oh, it's, it's mission creep. Point it up. Miami's under water today, everyone. But wow, just must have been a freak storm. And great day for kayak rentals. Yeah, also. So it's funny because you have Project 2025, which is like the brainchild of these like extreme right wing activists who just don't want government at all, right? Like they don't think the federal government has a role. Then you have Donald Trump. And his view on these things is you use the

federal government to help the people that you like and who like you Republicans. And you screw over the people who don't support you. So everything is politicized. The government is politicized. Government power is politicized, right? And so sure enough, like Trump who's like yelling right now about how, you know, Joe Biden and his calling governor camp, whatever. After a hurricane Matthew in 2017 hit North Carolina, the Trump administration denied 99% of the aid requested by democratic

governor Roy Cooper for North Carolina. One of the last times North Carolina had a big, big disaster hit. Trump said, no, thanks. I'll set by we all like I have amnesia, but like there was this sort of like sickening reality after the after the pandemic began where Gavin Newsom and Andrew Cuomo had to like praise the dear leader because they wanted to make sure they were getting the resources they needed in the middle of an emergency. And they knew that the actual stakes,

actual empathy for what people are going through was immaterial. Yeah, that is something that's something to look forward to dot with the second Trump term disaster hits and you better hope that you're you live in a red red state. Yeah, what's no atheist in a foxhole, no libertarians in a disaster relief zone. That's there. Yeah, no, no, Heritage Foundation staff. We'll keep going.

You got it. You got it. Before we move on to other subjects, we wanted to let you know that if you want to help folks affected by the storm and the flooding, you can go to votesaveamerica.com slash haline, your donation will go to some organizations that are helping on the ground right now and they're going to keep updating those orgs as needed. Over the weekend, while the storm was hitting the southeast, Trump was campaigning in the Midwest

where he gave a speech that even he described is dark. Boy was it. And if we can, we'll go back to the last one too. Oh, there's a fly. Oh, I wonder where the fly came from. See, two years ago, I would have had a fly up here. The shelves, they literally the people walk in, they just take everything they want, they walk out of the store. What the hell is going on? They

have to be taught. Now, if you had one really violent day like one rough hour, and I mean real rough, the word will get out and it will end immediately and immediately. So, love it. You said that you know what he was suggesting with the one violent day thing. Did he think the purge was a document? So, so here's what I thought what he was in his adult brain. He's sort of, he's pulling back old things he used to say, but not as clearly as he was able to

say before. And what I, what I think he's talking about is something that you would hear like from from a from a New Yorker like this would be something like, you know why there's no homeless people in front of Tiffany's or you know what restaurants used to do back in the day. If somebody tried to steal from them, they would they would have somebody go out and beat the ever loving shit out of them and that person would tell all their friends, you don't have to worry about it anymore. That's why

there's no homeless people over here. That's what you used to have the mob. You used to have dirty cut whatever it is. And you would dispatch these people and they would rough somebody up and they would get the word out. That's that's that is what he's talking about there. That's sort of in his mind. He's referencing that kind of way people would talk about a crime that like you could fix this by beating somebody up and then they'll tell all their friends. You know, the times wrote this up and

just sort of stunning to read it in a straight new story. But it said, Trump has in the past urged law enforcement to be rougher when making arrests and called for the summary execution of shoplifters. Yeah. Like yeah, that is what that is true. That is what he has said before. And then the roughing up suspects thing was in a speech to police in 2017. He also wants universal stop and frisk. He wants to deny funding for local police departments that do not implement universal stop

and frisk. I think he genuinely believes that extreme government violence is a way to prevent crime. Because he also on the international stage, he talks about Rodrigo Duterte all the time, the former president of the Philippines, whose quote unquote war on drugs was basically just massacring people. Innocent guilty didn't matter thousands of them. And he would praise him all the time publicly, privately in phone calls. And this is just what he thinks is what you should do.

He has proposed the death penalty for drug dealers. Like just he wants to execute drug dealers, which is what Duterte did. Now, do you think of any of what we just heard from Trump in that clip is moving any voters? Should Harris respond to any of it? What do you guys think? I don't think so. I mean, the most egregious thing in there was Trump referring to Kamala Harris's mentally disabled, which is like disgusting and offensive. But I don't think you want to make it

about you. So I don't know. I didn't hear anything there that I would jump on. Yeah, I just like, I think you got to just put it in the bucket of like, Trump's out here spewing all this nonsense and all this craziness and all this division and all this meanness and all this cruelty. Remember why he's doing all this. He's doing this because he's distracting from the fact that he has an incredibly unpopular agenda. He wants to cut taxes for

corporations. He wants to do a mass deportation that would disrupt our economy and cause a second great depression. He wants to overturn abortion rights even in in in blue states like he's this is this is what Donald Trump is promising. So don't let the noise and don't let the bullshit and don't let the the the the the crazy rambling school year. He's very he's very dangerous and these are the things he's going to do. I would like to watch a group of undecided voters or persuadable

voters. Why aren't you are watching Trump talk about the one violent day. The the one rough hour the shooting shop lifters executing like I get that Republicans and Trump have an advantage on crime and we don't want to play on their territory. I just think that that kind of stuff is so extreme and has to do with what Trump wants to do in a second term and not like you said time we get like the names he's calling Kamala Harris. I wouldn't talk about that or anything like that.

But I don't know. I think this is I think if you were if you were convincing someone who was going into the voting booth that day that was like a friend of yours who was wavering you'd be like, hey this guy's talking about fucking executing people who are arrested for dealing drugs or people who are suspected of shoplifting. He wants them to shoot like I think that's a fair data point. I think most people would watch that and think he doesn't really mean that he's just kidding

around. He's talking. I think I unfortunately even if you did it with the clips of shoot the shop lifters execute the drug dealers all that kind of stuff. I mean I think I think shoot the shop lifters and execute the drug dealers are just different categories. I think some people might be

like, yeah, maybe you think about death penalty for some drug dealers. I don't think I think they would think he was not serious about shooting shop lifters and I think broadly people have way more harsh views on crime than I'm probably personally that we're personally comfortable with. I don't know. I just don't know that I'd highlight it. Yeah, I as I just don't even I feel so

like unmoored at this point. We're saying shit like this. We're stuck at 48-48. This tiny group of people is this the thing that finally gets them to understand why Trump is so dangerous. I really don't feel like I know anymore. Are there a group of people that are leaning towards Trump that can be pill-tored Kamala not because of something that Kamala does but because of

something at long last that Trump says maybe you're right. I don't know. Yeah, I was talking to some of our pollsters at Focus Group folks we know and they said especially young people and young black and brown men like hearing about universal stop and frisk. It's like incredibly unpopular. And that's just police that's literally just police stopping and frisking you. That's not

shooting suspected shop lifters. So I actually I totally agree that in general probably the views of crime at this table versus like the public's views of crimes are quite different but I think that this is so extreme that it would be I don't know if it moves people but it's very unpopular. I think if you're talking about pulling out certain parts of this that would be like like in the would appeal to like a certain segment of young people that seem open to Trump.

Like sure like that makes a lot of sense to me but on the whole on the main like I feel like we are back into a couple of cycles of Trump's crazy in a thousand different fucking directions and I like worry about the 2016 effect of like he's saying oh he's saying we didn't use stuff flies as if immigrants brought all the flies he's saying crazy shit about crime again. Wait he's making his drug dealer point again and like what was that he called her mentally disabled

and then like I feel like I'm in a bit of a time war. Yeah but no I mean I think like I think that

you want to be on the economy you want to be on abortion. The only other category of Trump stuff that I sometimes think we should push a little harder on is the using government for violence and whether it's the mass deportations whether it's the the shooting the shop lifters what like this stuff is just in a category of like even like libertarian leaning Republicans like you're going to use the federal government to like like when the looting starts the shooting starts right.

Yeah no I was trying to take it just a second ago and I don't feel like I was I'm like struggling to do it but like I do think that there's a way to kind of I think we like have to get I think that that kind of gets sorted into like the Trump chaos extremism bucket and then there's like

the Trump economy bucket and I do think there's like a way to put them together and they were not being clear enough with people about like talking about this with Tim actually because you were talking about Trump's economic speech which was kind of glossed over because of

all the crazy shitty said but inside of it wasn't actual economic speech and you look at what he's promising and like it could cause a depression it could cause a massive massive massive recession and like we like that's if in the reverse that's what Donald Trump would be saying why aren't we

saying that like Donald Trump's chaos Donald Trump is going to when he left office he left the country with a recession he is promising through tariffs and a mass deportations not only tariff for millions of people but an economic calamity if you want to prevent a a a massive economic crash

caused by Donald Trump's chaos mismanagement and extremism like to protect the economy you have to vote for common tariffs and there's some way to kind of put those things together yeah the tariff thing is to I've been an advocate for going hard at the tariff for a while now it is

hard for people who like lived through a first Trump term I think to imagine like well why didn't he do this crazy tariff thing in the first term and what's his motivation for doing in a second term you're going to be like I don't know he's kind of fucking crazy yeah it is like the only explanation

as well and he also told me this represents what a tariff is although I there's some recent people pulling on immigration that found 56% of registered voters support mass deportations including 27% of hair supporters so it just shows you how far people have moved on immigration

and why like Trump is only talking about it the other thing that's interesting from Pew on crime is they they test people's feelings on crime and whether crime rates are going up or down and in 23 of the last 27 polls I think that's right people thought that crime was going up even when

it was going down so there's clearly just like so much fear of crime mostly from the media that it distorts views and I'm just not sure how it kind of cuts well I definitely think you can't try to help people much like the economy you can't tell people that crime is going down if they

don't feel the crime is going down I think that's a mistake so it seems like some of this crap from Trump was a reaction to Harris going to the border on Friday which Dan and I previewed a bit on Friday show how do you guys think she did that that event the coverage look good

I mean I I think any opportunity to drive the message that there was this border security bill a bipartisan the group lawmakers wanted to pass it and Trump tanked it because he wanted to roll in the issue I think that's just like a great message also thought it let her highlight her work

in California going after drug cartels and drug traffickers which I bet you zero percent of voters know about if you were just to sort of ask them in sort of an open setting she is gained back some ground on immigration as compared to where Biden was but she's still losing pretty badly

on the issue and that similar that same pupil last month found that 56% of registered voters are extremely or very concerned about the number of immigrants entering the country illegally including 27% of her supporters of same numbers as nasty portation and so you know I think what I take from

all of this is that her campaign has decided that she needs to look like she thinks the border is a crisis and the immediate priority and we're going to solve that first and then you move to like a broader more holistic conversation about immigration policy and this visit was a piece of it I think

the one criticism you could make is like maybe do this six months ago a year ago you do it a couple times so it doesn't get called just a stunt as the Kairan on Fox News status we're walking in but it's worth doing I just remembered I can't remember if it was a Sarah Longwell focus group or one

of those cable focus groups after the debate or something but there was an undecided voter or some swing voter who was like and you know I heard that she when she was in California she prosecuted some of these gangs these and I was like someone knows about God that woman TV that is great that's

mission accomplished there that's one yeah I watched I went just I was like what does this look like if you're in Phoenix or something and like what what is the like the border coverage look like and the images are great it's her walking with like police in front of the wall it's very kind of like

law enforcement kind of border security I think the like the remarks were great all that was great but you just sort of see the challenge of trying to like make a dent it like is sort of a we'll get to the polling of which is like how challenging this media environment is because if you watch a

local affiliate it's images of her at the border then they go to a Trump surrogate who's basically saying like she was the borders are who failed she hasn't been here since she was an elected which is a false and then they say all right well let's cut to Kamala Harris's remarks on the border

it happened to be the part of the speech where she was doing acknowledgements so they cut from a Trumpet going like she's never done a thing for the borders and then it's her just applauding and like pointing at people and you're just like man it just get like to Tommy's point about like doing

this one it's like you just it's reps it's going again it's like doing then going and doing interviews with these affiliates to talk about it more it's just you have to hit it over and over and over again also if you are making a speech about a policy that your supporters and your

voters are excited about they're going to spread the message and they're going to help you spread that message which is tough to do in this media environment if you are going to play defense on border security which is what she's doing and look there's a lot of undecided swing voters

are saying like I'm not sure about her on the border right I'm not sure about her on immigration and it's along with the economy there's the two things holding a lot of these voters back um but it's just like you're not going to get a bunch of your supporters to go and be like look

at her on the border it was so exciting she was really tough on border security like it's a hard thing to get out there right it's like you're you're trying to like you're trying to beat him on temperman extremism you're trying to beat him on abortion try to fight to a draw on the economy

and you're trying to like mitigate your losses on immigration like to to Tommy's point about why mass deportation polls so well there's no conversation about whether or not there should be a mass deportation it's people saying well yeah I do agree that there's a huge problem at the border

the impact of it or the impact about it and so yeah you show people videos of people like federal agents raiding offices and homes I think they're not as excited about it right but then but but then what happens is don't don't trumps out there saying this is what we need this is how we'll

solve the problem to correctly the Harris campaign is saying let's talk about border security let's talk about trump killing the bill let's talk about a better immigration system and then there's no actual debate about this heinous and terrible policy as you said love it we keep getting more

polls they keep showing that the race is more tied than the last polls that's that's possible New York time sienna once again Saturday morning we all get up and the more more New York time sienna polls Harris leads 49 47 and Wisconsin 48 47 and Michigan there was a Fox News poll out on

Friday that had Harris up two in Pennsylvania but tied among likely voters blah blah blah it's all the same are we just stuck here to election day this is what's gonna happen yeah i mean in my dark moments i wonder if we spend years of our lives and billions of dollars on campaigns and in the

end what really matters is like the meta media narrative at the last week last week yeah you know it's a late deciders and where they break it's made me worry to me at that point that like the trump people know this because that's how they won in 16 and they're just like waiting to just

throw some kind of shit at the wall in the last two weeks yeah they don't have to they're hasn't it have a kernel of truth though there's gonna look fresh yeah I will say like even if what you're saying is true let's that the campaigns create the space for that that like final two weeks

to unfold I also like I just I think we don't know that like I think it's very possible that the race is frozen and like the very like no campaign is perfect but like Kamala Harris is like doing what she is supposed to do what like her like she has very smart people around her they are running

an enthusiastic campaign they're doing everything they're supposed to do trump is selling fucking watches and careening for the other side launching and and they're tied and then the question is like is that a genuine like I think there's the the race could be genuinely tied and this politics

is all going through like the information mandolin and like ending up is shredded on the bottom that's possible it's also possible that these polls are accurate but it's just very hard to measure the like shifts between leaners shifts in enthusiasm tiny shifts amongst undecided voters that even if

the the polls are creating an accurate picture of what's happening they're not able to measure the subtle and qualitative differences which you do see in focus groups right there is a difference in the focus groups between how they talked about Biden versus Trump versus how they talk about

Harris versus Trump and that would just be hard to measure the other is that like all of this polling like we may we may discover after this election that the ways in which they were trying to correct for errors after 2016 and 2020 created totally weird results because those were weird

elections between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump between Joe Biden and Donald Trump during a pandemic and now this election where we finally have a candidate a lot of people are enthusiastic about finally a normal election well yeah well yeah so between two between a vice president

yeah there's who knows but that but we just won't know till after I know I'm saying and that was a joke in my dark moments I think that I obviously registering voters matters geo tv matters but ultimately like we're talking about 10% of the population so undecided and trying to

convince them and it's just it sucks and again I like I don't I think people you hear on decided anything that those people are all torn between the two candidates and they're just checked out a lot of them are checked out and you know I just Alex Wagner did a focus group of Michigan voters

uh last week and just hearing some of them you could it's so funny because you can tell the difference between the voters who've been paying attention to this race and they talk about the convention speech or Trump did this and then the other ones are just like I haven't looked enough

about Kamala I know she's a new candidate I got to check it out I do remember I had more money in my pocket when Trump was president but I don't know he seems kind of crazy I mean that you just hear the same shit and they're gonna they are gonna tune in those last couple weeks yeah Michigan

numbers or people are gonna you know knock on their doors and or the campaign is gonna be on the ground you're gonna organize you're gonna they're gonna hear from a volunteer and again one conversation's not gonna do it but if they're gonna start thinking okay I got some new information

from that person that's interesting I do think they're because the race has been so static and because it's so close like it's hard to know the difference between are there just a group of people that are very hard to persuade or are they being persuaded and it's just not showing up

in the numbers and we just we just don't know it's very hard to measure it's given a little hot war in Lebanon closes thing out close strong some more chaos and death and destruction overseas maybe shovel some cash over there can't you fix that that's supposed to be your other

other road's working on it roads is working on it he's doing this thing uh got a I'm not doing right now I know I know the joke and I was gonna do it though we didn't know there is one more quote I'm quote big moment uh left on the calendar Tuesday nights VP debate JD Vance and Tim

walls will meet on stage at CBS Studios in New York at 9 p.m. Eastern uh like the Harris Trump debate it'll be 90 minutes with no audience unlike the Harris Trump debate both candidates mics will be on the entire time the moderators are Nora O'Donnell and Margaret Brennan uh we know

that Pete Buttigieg has been playing Vance in Wals' debate prep sessions in the Minnesota Congressman Tom Emmer has been playing walls in Vance's sessions the walls team has been trying to set expectations with leaks about walls being nervous and not a great debater the RNC did a

preview call about the debate and teased that Vance will call walls traitor Tim for allegedly abandoning his national guard unit when they went to Iraq so are they is it gonna be traitor tampon Tim or tampon traitor Tim uh they're gonna just drop tampon oh good question yeah traitor so great

I should have good that's good they should do that what a prick how are you guys feeling about the expectation setting do you buy the expectation setting do you not what do you think I'm a little nervous I watched some of Tim Wals' uh Minnesota public radio debate from last year against Scott

Jensen Barnburn Scott Jensen uh it wasn't great he seemed pretty nervous he's a little gruff got a little defensive the answers were always totally smooth or coherent and so I you know he's probably doing exponentially more prep this time than last time but you know the stakes couldn't are a lot higher and Tim Walsh hasn't been doing any interviews like the lack of reps could make him rusty he's also he's now defending Kamala Harris's record something he learned about for the first

time two months ago like think about how complicated that is you're not you're not like defending your own legislative record or time as governor which you know inside and out you're talking about this

person you you barely knew three months ago as opposed to J.D. Vance who's been doing fucking mop up duty for Donald Trump for four years publicly while attacking him privately and so I like J.D. again he's been out there he's doing press conferences he's doing hostile interviews they're not always good he's not always helping the cause but he's got a lot of reps and he's an obnoxious like slippery little shit who is kind of good at this stuff yeah I think a socratic a socratic form is a

good form for J.D. Vance J.D. Vance is better in one-on-one interviews that are contentious with a like a national news reporter than he is on the stump are talking to someone trying to sell Madonna he's better in he's better in the greenery he's better in like fighter well lit environments he

was he's a green room creature and I do worry about that the what I what I was thinking about about this debate was actually the the um Pajana Edwards I don't know why it's it's uh it's 2004 for me right now I don't know what came out of the fucking time capsule do you support the surge yeah

so the reason I was thinking about let me tell you about the last time I remember a disaster relief situation in politics 2004 I do so this is a coincidence but the reason I was thinking about 2004 is because um you know Dick Cheney had became like kind of like it was had this reputation

of a political hero yeah sure uh became this sort of like you know this political Darth Vader and John Edwards was this charming lawyer and then they had this debate where they kind of folks seated up and had a really kind of mild mannered good time and I think it redundant to Dick Cheney's

benefit because John Edwards made Dick Cheney seem like a normal person in that debate yeah and the only thing I remember from it is him kind of really awkwardly being like your daughter who was a lesbian yeah he was a weird moment doing John but like John but but Dick Cheney came out well

out of that debate and I was a little worried about that like that like you know Tim Walts is going to kind of like end up in this sort of folks each conversation with JD Vance and JD Vance comes away looking vaguely normal because he's in conversation with a normal guy that was my concern but the

fact that they're previewing this traitor thing I think that's fucking great like the more JD Vance is coming coming after Tim Walts and Tim Walts can just be like I'm proud of my service to my country let's talk about Donald Trump let's talk about Kamala Harris I think the better and I

think that would be a pretty stupid strategy really JD Vance so which makes me think it's a head fake but who knows I do I buy the spin from the Wallscamp someone in the CNN piece about this recalls Wall saying I think it a fundraiser as teachers we're trained to answer the question

and we train our students to answer the questions that's not how this goes Barack Obama also a teacher felt the same way he was not always graded debates Kamala Harris was a prosecutor that's like this debates are more her style like the way that you prepare for a trial you know so I do I worry a

little bit you know about about Walls but I don't know maybe he's practiced a bunch and maybe Pete really gave it to him good and now he's he's already and then how the debate prep did okay Jesus you don't thought it I don't have the permission structure I also was texting with some people

on the Walls team like yeah you ready to dominate and they're like you know not quite how we're feeling but we're making progress so they're they're they're playing things down publicly and practically that's and then that there's a Pete do you guys read the piece in the New York Times

about JD Vance and his past debates that was like an expectations razor that was yeah it's like the Walls campaign placed it but it was like basically all about how great how JD Vance was like made for debates just like what you said you know and apparently and Hillbilly LG he talked about

how he in the Marines he did media relations for the Marines yeah he said the experience taught me a valuable lesson that I could do it I could work 20 hour days when I had to I could speak clearly and confidently with TV cameras shoved in my face so this is a guy who's been like practicing

doing this for a long time and you're right like I think interacting with humans sort of tough but like a debate stage white nationalist podcasts and great preparation for debate and I think the smarter strategy for JD Vance than the trader Tim stuff would be to run the play the Donald

Trump was supposed to run at the Harris Trump debate and forget about Tim Walls and make Tim Walls answer for like Kamala Harris and all of the unpopular parts of the Biden Harris record and then on her stuff like that's that's what I bet he'll do yeah what's confusing though about JD Vance is

like he seems smart enough to know that and then he goes on social media and like start bickering with reporters all day so yeah there's an angel on devil on his shoulder well you can and they're both assholes fucking worst angel you'd ever fucking me it's a such a weirdo you know you could see

him getting triggered by Nora and Margaret too because he's like these these they're just like shouting questions at him and he just he already has an antagonistic relationship with every reporter and so I could see him yeah I got real mad at Dana Bash yep I could see that too if you were

Walls would you go after him for the shitty things he said or would you keep it all about Trump I was thinking about this over the weekend and I think the one place I would kind of go after JD Vance repeatedly is be like JD I was a teacher for many years I had a lot of students like you

like kids who are in a hurry to make a name for themselves and be someone and they were willing to say and do anything to get there like that's how you end up being the attack dog for a guy who doesn't care about working people who in 2020 you said it failed to deliver as president and

a good one and now you're running around the country you know telling lies and trying to divide the country and then you try to like create this narrative around JD that becomes emotive for everything he says and kind of undercuts him and it sort of gets at his lack of qualifications

for the jobs maybe you slip in a couple lines about how old Trump is but yeah no I don't think you're going after the greatest Oppo hits like maybe you're mentioning some of the top ones like childless cat ladies or lying about the hits Mike Jensen in Ohio but yeah I mean most of this

is going to be just the Trump show and making him defend Trump couldn't agree more though that is a great that's a great strategy to have like one motivation for JD Vance and his career and just like keep coming back to that right which is just trying to yeah do anything to get more power

yeah I do think using the new stuff about the 2020 like even after don't Trump's presidency you were saying these things which is which is new and he'll feel obligated to response and his response is pretty bad I don't I don't know if we've do we cover this on this show I think just

to show everyone who's talking about there was Washington Post story about this that JD Vance was direct messaging on Twitter with someone where he said in 2020 that Trump quote thoroughly failed to deliver on economic populism yep and so I pretty damning one of the more damning JD Vance quotes even more damning that line was followed by parenthetical accepting a disjointed China policy who says accepting JD Vance the uh yeah I do think that's like pretty pretty damning and his

defense is like I was saying how in the establishment Republicans let him down which is sort of embarrassing okay buddy um but he'll feel obligated because he'll know Trump is watching oh god yeah and so it's a one to respond so how to respond the only if I was walls I would look for I mean that's

one opportunity but other opportunities to drive a wedge between Trump and Vance with either different positions they've had or remember when Vance fucked up by saying uh that Donald Trump would veto a national abortion ban yeah Trump said I never told him that right like I would I

would look for him on that yeah for sure and know that Trump's watching and try to get make him be a supplicant for Trump and just embarrass himself like I think that's a yeah this is a real audience of one's situation for uh for JD uh what's a win for walls look like it's like a relentless

message about Trump being in this for himself and not working people and then just getting JD on defense yeah I think a draw is a win do you know arm and yeah and just saying how great Kamala's and her record and her you know her plans and everything like that I mean because again she

I would say the only missed opportunity not really miss because she didn't have the time but in the last of it she didn't get to talk as much about her plans her policies her values stuff like that she did but I think that walls could probably do that for her even better because

he's essentially a surrogate for her not just her bragging yeah she went back to like aspirations and ambitions but she didn't go back to the details that much yeah I think I think I think you'll know I think a win will be a debate in which it felt like Tim Waltz was kind of putting JD

event it's very similar it's it's sort of a mirror image of Trump like JD Vance is going to be a smarter more sophisticated kind of bulldozer coming at him but like kind of being able to put that aside and letting him get himself riled up while talking to the camera and like kind of he comes

away kind of seeming kind of non-plussed is that the right way of using non-plussed yeah sure and and Vance and Vance seems right all seems angry how much is this going to matter you think the whole race is going to be upended if walls does bad or does well I wonder what's the worst VP debate

performance it's a good question I mean Sarah Palin even did fine right yeah they're usually non-events like no cares it's it is weird that it could be the last big event before voting but no one will remember it by the time they're actually on an election day yeah um you know it could cost

a few new cycles to one side or the other but maybe a maybe a I don't I don't even know if the baby between Harrison trump didn't say I know I know I know right like I don't know yeah well this is going to be the thing this will be the yeah no I don't know when we come back from the break you're going to hear my conversation with the one and only James Carville two quick things before we do that for tonight's VP debate we're going to be hosting a subscriber live chat starting at

9 p.m. Eastern 6 p.m. Pacific on our discord server you'll be able to watch the debate live chat with fellow cricket listeners invent about JD vances awfulness and real time not a friend of the pie yet sign up now at cricket.com slash friends we'll be doing our own recap show after the debate

ends but also make sure you're subscribed to our daily news pod what a day you'll wake up with the 20 minute overview of the highs and lows of the walls vance showdown best of all Tommy's going to be joining Jane coast and for the episode oh yeah can't wait nice it's very fun it's a

tradition like any other you're going on water after debates there you go when we come back James Carville joining us in studio today he's the subject of a new CNN documentary coming out this weekend called Carville winning is everything stupid the legendary democratic strategist who inspired a

generation of hacks like me to get into politics James Carville James welcome to the pod well thank you they're excited to be here so always good to have a conversation about the hack that's right that's right so since comahairs became the nominee we've had a convention a debate

millions and ads saturated media coverage and and basically nonstop polling that shows a race that is essentially tied with five weeks to go I know the last few elections have been pretty close so this is unusual I can't remember a race where the polling has been this tight for this long what do you think is is going on well first of all in this century the only candidate that went woke up election morning nor they were going to win was the Obama 2008 we were still a little nervous

but no but but everything else you might have thought you were a little better shape but you didn't know right you certainly didn't know in 2000 I mean Romney was actually shocked at he was I mean it was like he went there that can he was going to win yeah so it's not unusual and what I will say

they're usually breaking in so if there's seven swing states the most unlikely result is a break four three they're gonna break altogether more more likely than not in my instinct and there's nothing but instinct is you know can talk a windage that it'll break Harris's way but

that's only instinct there's no evidence to support that were you surprised at how fast the party came together around her candidacy and how fast her favorability ratings went up no no I think the I think it was clear that people just wanted something different it would

like more 72% want something there was 60% of the Democrats did and you know what I was the knowledge I would use is that you have infected wisdom tooth and they pull it you feel great you don't feel any better than you're the felt if you didn't have the wisdom tooth the

fact that the wisdom tooth is gone you're like gee I'm I'm top of the world now and I think you had some of that effect like in the way that it was 1245 central time almost sort of minute when I got the first text and by I was listening to you know political radio I forgot what it was

then you know in our at 145 central you know that they already call that said there was no appetite they think else yeah well you worried at all that because I know you were initially concerned that it would appear either she was anointed by the party or or even another Democratic nominee

would or nominee and look she did earn the nomination but you know it was about there was no other challengers but 24 hours yeah you know assignment if if if if Biden would have dropped out June 15th they might have been yeah a lot of well the more things that I do believe that the level of talent

in the current Democratic Party is the highest level of talent I've seen a political party in my lifetime I mean if you look at the potential presidential candidates we had they're all like really work class talent yeah and Harris has kind of proved herself to be a lot better than people

thought the other thing that I would have people tell me that you know she's gotten a lot better I'd like people working in a white house is she's become more confident she has better staff work I think the part of the rain in so I'm I'm gratified and you know if I saw her 2000 presidential

campaign who man I think stuck but she's grown she has she really has it feels like Trump and Kamala or in a battle for voters attention which is increasingly harder to come by these days the state of the media I think it's it's one big reason that the Harris folks really want a second debate

so far Trump's not giving it to them what do you think her campaign can do to break through in these last few weeks any creative ideas to grab people's attention the answer is yes okay first vote what they do is they do big events very well yeah the vice president roll out

they you could say maybe they could have said a picture of her I don't know but there was a very well done the convention you couldn't walk away from there and not say it's one of the better conventions you ever had you certainly couldn't walk away from the debate and not say that they

did a real good job in preparing her I kind of knew some of the people that were in prep I really the very confident she was going to do well which is less certain is how aggressive they are day to day and how they don't take a story and kick it but so Trump says I don't like to

play people a minimum wage I just don't pay them then I mean a overtime yeah I mean overtime in project 2025 has this overtime provision I wish they would be kicking the crap out of this all day I wish they were like flooding TV like come on people work overtime they want to get paid

it you know hourly workers overtime is everything to them so I thought that they could kick that a lot harder and what I hope that they do coming down the stretch is push a push a story every day yeah and a lot of it is just the stuff they're proposing on taxes people don't like

the other one they should be just kicking the crap out of is the tariff stuff you see we down for an Iowa that's understandable a gradient people can't stand tariffs they happen terrible industrial people some are not even after I think they're going to do some good that that's

I think they should be pushing the Peterson Institute which okay I'm gonna read it is we know but but it's all credible people say this is going to be a $2,500 three thousand of every family I wish they would push that hard yeah it seems like I mean this has been a problem for years now

but Trump gives you so many different targets every day because he says a bunch of crazy shit all the time she has the added challenge of voters saying well I want to know more about her I want to know what she's going to do is president but then you've got Trump up there saying he's talking

about the tariffs he's talking about mass deportations political prosecutions he just talked about going after shoplifting by letting police do whatever they want for one rough hour how do you think she should balance talking about herself and talking about him how do you so I think

that if she ran hard if they pushed the tariffs stuff people would find out something about her I think if they pushed the overtime stuff if they pushed something simple that everybody is far but they just don't do the minimum wage it's time to give America a raise everybody else in the

world who's gotten a raise but Americans and I got a raise and I read a New York time story so predictable she did the interview but I guess definitely rural and of course that's the same pissy thing well she really didn't say anything there was a lack of specificity hidden in the story

was the fact that she could put out an 81 page economic plan like why didn't so we had a 92 we had a 85 page economic plan no one ever read a word of it including me but there's actually blasting acts the same thing she's not talking about the issues in any depth

there's just this bromides and well actually she does have an 81 page economic plan there's no danger I'm gonna read it but I think if people knew that yeah you have to check out 81 page economic plan on page 32 she says if we need to increase the minimum wage to 12 85 an hour

yeah well pretty good all we need to take taxes over race tax on people make over $400,000 and put it in the first time home buyer mortgage relief fund to help young people buy houses anything like that you know is going to be massively popular and pointed out but the

York Times is never gonna say that she has economic specificity right because she just you always say that no matter what yeah in which she does interviews too she can answer questions by saying oh if you want to know more you have this whole book out there and by the way here's what Trump

wants to do yeah yeah so there are I do I do think they can be more aggressive I think they can fight for the new cycle and I think that just you know you don't get to back where one day you get a bunch of good stories and you pull out night and you say well shit we didn't move you gotta keep

building stuff up so pulling shows a big gender gap including it especially between young women and young men white men Hispanic men even black men it's been like the big demographic debate of 2024 do you think this is a dynamic that is specific to Trump and the current version of the

Democratic Party or is it bigger than that how do you think about it well I've been pretty about spoken we don't do as well near as well with males as I think they can do and John you know that every election brings about a fashionable demographic right now it's going to add sock of

moms women of color I think the demographic in this cycle with the most elasticity is in they'll get in trouble saying this in some quarters but our college educated white males I think we have a lot of ups but why do I say that first of all they tend to be more pro choice than non-college

white males you know I'm sorry but we have mothers wives children friends but you you know so much it is become that it's a abortion is a women's issue it's actually somewhat of a male issue too and the other reason I think that there's upside is you know because of obvious

reasons they're more invested in the stock market they have more to lose so I do think we have some we can't do any better than we do in post-batch little white women right but we certainly can do better with younger black males that that's a that's a problem that I think to a large you said

our coaches helped create that but I think the trendy demographic or college white males and what do you think what do you think is the best way to lock down college white males or so to keep keep talking about abortion you can talk about freedom and say that Trump says so the argument is

is it a good economy a bad economy it's very hard to talk people into something that they don't believe but Trump gave us a tremendous opening he says you have nothing to lose we're gonna try everything because it's all in a toilet I don't think people look at it that way I think people say

well they've got a job or I think most people if you say yeah I feel pretty good about the next year a year and a half yeah you know some people may have a savings account you know yeah you know maybe doing a little better then and so if the question is is it good or bad that's not the

question we should be is do you have something to lose in this you can you do better yes but if we do things like start slapping tariffs on everything we're not gonna we're not gonna do very well that this you got you have something to lose it and he keeps running these ads what the hell you got

to lose you actually fair amount yeah and it's not just people like you and I had had something to lose a pipe that I had something to lose yeah I mean that guy so she is going down to the union hall and that work every day yeah I know you've taken your share of shit for warning

Democrats about identity politics and woke language and all that I've always wondered about this from the perspective of democratic politicians like 99% of whom don't actually talk like that they get tagged as the you know woke party because of activists and people on social media that

they have very little control over if you're a democratic politician or working for one what do you what do you do about this issue the first one no one uses that language I mean it just don't okay and it started and it was like an idea that never caught out all right so there's no chance that

yeah I tell people and this is true I you sort of film I probably had more encounters with black people than any democratic consultant just where I grew up and where I live and if I was like which I see all the time it's just say there's three black guys shooting a bowl out in front of

the super block if I walked up and I said good morning fellows high things in the community of color today it was just a jive ASMR from all the fucking talking about okay what I was saying and I think it was a well-intentioned people that just made a giant mistake and they tried to

lead and no one followed them and the best thing we can do is just move on if we don't need to go remind NPR that no one talks like that does everybody knows no one talks like that anymore there's no danger that Adam Schiff is going to be running for something in California and start

talking about Latinx or something it's just not going to happen there's no value in that I love the documentary focuses on your life your career your marriage a good chunk of it is also about your your very vocal push to get by in this step aside which is a bit of a lonely crusade

before the debate I know that you probably weren't too concerned with the criticism you received during that period there is a moment in the doc where you worry about about becoming one of those people you used to hate the goddamn carping democratic pundits who were never satisfied how do you

think about giving advice that's still pertinent and persuasive even though you're not working inside these campaigns like you used to so you and I work in campaigns and you would see people on television some bitch has no idea what he's talking about I was in there 16 hours a day trying to you know

crank out a schedule trying to get spots written and talking points pushed and you know doing vocal TV hits and in disassholes popping off and I was in so here here he says well yeah that guy is sitting there and you know knocking down $35,000 of speech and you know sitting on TV and I

would I've always hated that kind of person yeah and that's so true that I had become that which I had always detested but I just didn't because I was old if you see the documentary it's pretty clear that I'm in the midst of the aging process I had like you I had maybe a better but if we

have an idea of what the job entails some of my not it's not easy no and I had a platform so I kept and I thought it out I talked a lot of people about it I thought about it myself I just didn't think I had any other choice I just given the unique circumstances you know if

maybe if you got or somebody got really vocal it would cut guest off from you if you were a lobbying to say you are you've had other campaigns you were working on or even if you were working on foreign campaigns it says that called the government of Nigeria and say you know if you don't

get rid of this son of a bitch you're not getting something I mean it but there was no there was no pressure point that could be applied to me and I just thought I was in a unique situation how blame other people and I would have people would say God I wish I could say that but I can't I

said I understand I'm not I'm not yeah I couldn't have said this 15 years ago right all right but you can do it now I'm sure you get asked a lot a young people for advice especially people who are interested in pursuing a career in politics I know one of the reasons you really

wanted to do this doc or what you hoped from this doc was to get young people involved in politics again what do you say to people who ask well or the origins of the doc was Susan McEw who were having just kind of a friend he didn't do that I think it's post pandemic and she said you know I was

a student at Rutgers and I started war I mean she became Harry Reid sheep a sample 30 years old and Susan's just one of these like Uber connected people and she said I want to make another document because I want to and that was that was really the kind of archon of what started

and you know whatever you call this the profession the business the industry it's taken a lot of hits you know so a young person says and I says it's dirty it's all negative it's all polarized everybody's in it for themselves and guess what that message actually broke through I mean

they were actually successful in convincing people that this was a shitty business that shitty people were in yeah and and that's just not people like you and I that work in campaigns it's people who every election miss maible who sits there at the card table and checks off the list that's

you know the person that walks the precinct that goes into the projects to flush it and goes to get the votes out it's also the local newscast that covers politics it's the people that write about politics in the entire business into the extent that this movie lives beyond the cycle which I hope

it does I hope it gives people like you know what those people who like to have a pretty good time they didn't didn't look like they want to work with a half shirt old they were particularly embarrassed by the way they aren't alive and yeah and I think Matt did manage we had

was our director actually like work was a go for in the Mondale campaign with Susan Estrich is kind of assistant the 88 DeCoccus campaign and covered politics in Mountive Air so he actually had some idea because most people think we're kind of carnival bakers you know I tendered people

vagabonds they moved from one place to another and I was you know and I hope you know some young John Fabros says yeah nothing or some young Susan McEw says we should maybe I don't want to be chief of staff to start to one up 30 years old and be some barish woman from with that what to

Rutgers it's fine I mean I was a I was a kid when I first saw the war room and to this day I can still remember your line that at the end outside of a person's love the most sacred thing they can give us their labor and anytime you can come by and labor and love you've made a merger because

that was the moment that was the first moment I thought about getting into politics so thank you for that well thank you for that actually you know that's what I hope we're able to do with this movie yeah that's that I mean that's my hope is that you know 30 years now somebody says

you know I got out of UCLA and I got it awful but I thought I'd maybe run for the Suogen water commission who would have a thought in one day I would be the governor california I know yeah the doc is fantastic it's called carville winning is everything stupid

directed by Matt turn-hour premieres on CNN on Saturday October 5th and in theaters in New York LA and other spots across the country James Carville thanks for coming on pod save America thank you and thank you for your carnivores about to war room and spar and you know I hope this

will inspire somebody else thank you so much thank you that's our show for today thanks again to James Carville for coming by we'll have our VP debate reaction show in your feed tomorrow morning bye everyone if you want to get ad free episodes exclusive content and more consider joining our

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