you everyone and welcome to the pod of the damned i'm your host ian and joining me this week for the first time absolutely is my co-host candy how are you i'm good how are you i'm i'm Actually, you know what, I'm probably better now than we were. So for those listening, we just recorded this intro for the past six minutes worth of audio, and then I realised I wasn't actually recording any of Candy's audio. So it was just me.
talking to myself for six minutes which in fairness you know sometimes i feel like i do go on these big long like diatribes where i am talking i do the same thing 10 to 15 minutes and sometimes you know i'm maybe like editing an episode
And I'll be looking for like interesting things that have been said or, you know, little clips or funny little moments that I can use for like promos. And I'll be slowly just like, and I'll be like speed sort of going through the audio. I'll be clicking forward like a minute and I'll be like, fuck me, do I ever stop talking?
sometimes but you and i are both guilty of that yes yes i feel like i sometimes there has been a few episodes where i'm just like i'll be i'll be sitting there and i'll be speaking or you'll be speaking and i'll be like Oh, Nico has not said anything for quite a while. we're bad about it yeah i think he's uh he's fine he's fine he's always uh he's a very chill dude he's a very chill dude and we'll uh he always still manages to get in his two cents so that's fine but uh yes uh this week
Nico sends his apologies. It's just me and Candy this week. Once again, Nico will be back on our next episode. And as... as we were saying off air, he's picked a fucking doozy for us to cover next week. Yeah, that's going to be interesting. It will be a very interesting discussion. Like, you know, I know we said, you know, not really sure how Nico's going to come down
on it. I hope he comes down on the side. I feel like me and you are going to be in a very similar boat for that one. I think so. And I really, really hope that he comes down at least on a very similar side. You know, based on some of the reactions that I've been getting from you guys, the listeners, because I've already put it out onto our social media.
most of the listeners fall down with us although there have been a few defenders of next week's movie as well but if you don't know what it is yet we will announce what it is at the end of the episode so stay tuned for that In the meantime, we'll do some housekeeping once again. If you would like to support this podcast, we are on Threads Facebook.
blue sky uh instagram youtube tiktok all at pod of the damned you can email us at pod of the damned at gmail.com you can subscribe to us on patreon patreon.com forward slash pod of the damned Sorry, I just automatically just stopped talking there. Candy, where can you be found? You can find me as CandyTheFinalGirl on threads, Instagram, and Blue Sky. I do have a TikTok. I haven't done much with it. But it's also there.
Yeah, I would also just like to take this opportunity because I forgot to do it in our now lost opening recording of this. If you also like horror video games, please go and support my horror video game channel. That's Forest Horror. gaming where I do full playthroughs of short horror games, big AAA title horror games.
post a lot of clips and content to TikTok and things like that as well so please go support me on there again YouTube uh YouTube Instagram and threads are the three places and TikTok sorry are the places that I can be found it's all under Forest Horror Gaming Please go and support that if you like. And I think I'm going to gift you on Steam.
alan wake or something because i really want to see you oh like also if anyone like i'm absolutely no obligation to if you do like thank you very very much but like if you want to see me play any games i do generally like I buy all my games, but if you want to give me a game, feel free to, you know? Yeah, I mean, you play on Steam, right?
I'm on Steam. I can send you my deets. Yeah, send me your info because I'm going to be like Alan Wake, Alan Wake 2. I am fully prepared to go through and do it. You're going to fucking love him. I've played the first Alan Wake. I've not played Alan Wake. week. Island week two. Alienware 2 somehow manages to be even better. Well, Alienware 2, I think, just hit a point where it's now turning a profit as a video game as well. I actually saw that on Bloody Disgusting a day or two ago.
So, you know, it's the little game that could really, isn't it? Like, it's doing pretty well. Yeah, and when you play it, it is just, it's rich, it's scary, it's amazing. I can't go on and on enough about it, but I'll stop there. But yeah, you may...
end up with some Alan Wake 2 in your scheme. Oh, I'm sure I can live with that. But as well, if you do support me on those YouTube channels, I've just posted the third and final part of my playthrough of the first Outlast game, and there's a whole host of short indie horror games on there as well that I've already played through and I was I was saying to my Natasha my partner the other day I was like stop stop
letting me buy games off of steam because i currently have 30 was it 37 i think i have 37 games currently installed on steam that i have to play um so yeah Follow me. We stream live on Twitch weekly. There's no set schedule at the moment, just down to work. But we stream live on Twitch weekly. But clips and videos go up onto my YouTube two or three times a week. So please go support me there.
Anyways, I don't even think I've told anyone what we're actually reviewing today. Today we're reviewing The Babadook. And if it's alright with you, Candy, shall we just get straight into it? Yeah. Okay. Where do you get this? On the shelf. If it's in a word or it's in a look, you can't get rid of the babadook. A rumbling sound, then three sharp knocks. Babadook, duck, duck.
That's when you'll know he's around. You'll see him if you look. Nothing bad's gonna happen, Sam. Did you think that about my dad before he died? He sees things as they are, that one. I promise to protect you if you promise to protect me. Oh my God. Did he hurt anyone? The boy has significant behavioral problems. This monster thing has got to stop, alright? It's just a book. We can't hurt you.
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm fine. You don't have to be fine, you know. Just a bit stressed at the moment. All children see monsters. Not like these. I want to report someone stalking me and my child. You can't get rid of the Babadog. You can't get rid of the Babadog. You can't get rid of the Babadog. I need help. It is real. It is real. It is real. Yes, so this movie was released in 2014, was directed by Jennifer Kent, and stars Essie Davis, Noah Wiseman, and Daniel Henschel.
The IMDB plot is as follows. A single mother and her child fall into a deep well of paranoia when an eerie children's book entitled Mr. Babadook manifests in their home. So... As I was saying before, this was my pick this week, and I picked this because my partner had said it was the scariest movie she had ever watched, period, as a child. And... When I watched this the first time not long after it first came out, I really wasn't a fan of it. I completely dismissed it.
And I've really... It was quite a few years I had left this movie. And then I re-picked it up again probably a couple of years ago. And I felt... I wouldn't say like... i haven't turned to the fact where i'm like this is now an incredibly perfect movie sort of thing but i'm much more positive on this movie
than I was five or six years ago. And one of the complaints I hear a lot, and I think this is maybe that I was saying, like, I maybe just didn't quite understand it. I just didn't quite get it. Some of the themes maybe just didn't quite land with me at the time. But one of the big complaints I always hear from people who don't like this movie is, the kid is too annoying. And you know, I'm sure you've heard that.
A lot, can't they? Well, I mean, we still make the joke, why can't you be normal? But the thing is about this movie, this movie really does tackle some really important... themes and one of those themes that it tackled is uh bringing like is depression depression is absolutely one of those themes um would you still call it sort of postpartum depression as well when your child is six years old? I think that in a way her postpartum depression and this is I've had I've given birth to two children
So I had PPA, which is postpartum anxiety, but this would be postpartum depression. And I think mixed with the grief of her husband dying, it has sort of prolonged and become more of a... a sort of depression but there's paranoia, there's anxiety, there's a lot going on there but I do think the springboard was her husband's death.
Yeah, and we are led to that quite a few times throughout the movie. The very first thing we see is our main character, Dream Amelia, I think it's Amelia, I've immediately forgotten what her name is, I think it's Amelia, is having a dream. a nightmare essentially of you know her husband's death and her husband died whilst taking her to the hospital as our sort of
Our main child character Sam likes to remind people, you know, my dad died because he was taking my mom to the hospital to have me. And... You know, you can see every time, obviously up until the very end of this movie he says it, you can see the conflict that causes for Amelia, like, emotionally, can't you? Like, she's very, very...
She's so depressed. She's very tired. You know, she's just got all these emotions going on and it's just like a constant reminder for her and you feel like her character The character's son, Sam, is just that, isn't it? He's a constant reminder of you're the reason why I've lost my husband. And I think, you know, the theme of motherhood presented here, I mean, there's... There's definitely a guilt. As a mom, you know, when I had my oldest, I was 20 years old, and I was a single mother.
And it's just so fucking hard. It is really, really hard. See, you're tired. You're anxious. You're worried. And this is, you know, your first child. I mean, you worry about everything, every germ, every little thing. And I think I've spoken to a lot of people about this movie, and a lot of them are like, she really hated the kid. No, you could tell that she loved Sam.
but I think there was a lot of guilt and some anger. You know, one, the kid is, he's different. You know, he's not like other kids, and that is a cause of worry but also there's anger there still from losing you know her husband so I think you know in a way mentally she's kind of laying that at Sam's feet and that may be a reason why Sam is so different. Yeah, I mean, there's loads of theories you can go with in this movie as to why our characters are the way they are.
I think a leading theory is that Sam is different. You know, we see throughout this movie that Sam is not like regular kids. However... regular you want to like define things it is you know and and you can certainly see this it's been heavily sort of hinted at that sam is suffering from some sort of autism as well um you know might have some sort of disorder disorder that makes makes him act in a certain way makes him act the way he does especially and you can see that definitely with the
Sort of, you know, like she says at the end of the movie, oh, well, he always just says what's on his mind. Like he says every thought that comes into his head. And those can be definitely characteristics of that as well. So it's not just that, yes, like you're saying, she's got this... anger or this guilt or this grief that she just can't seem to get over she has a child that just constantly is reminding her of the fact that you know she lost her husband and this is obviously set six six
years almost seven years after that accident but then she also has to deal with the stress of bringing up a child with disability and you know it feels like every single move she makes in this movie causes her to fall like further away from being able to have like a normal a normal life again like however you want to define normal you know in the first sort of opening scenes of the movie
He doesn't necessarily get expelled from school, but she has to take him out of school because they're really not understanding how to best deal with him and his... disruptive behavior in class so suddenly you know she now has she has him now 24 7 so there's not even like that break for her is there you know and you can tell our character is she's exhausted you
She's mentally, physically exhausted. And then the one time where later in the movie, she tries to call out sick because she's just... done you know she all it sounds to me like she's pretty much lost her job you know from and and it's just like there's no break at all and that's that's what it can be like for especially When I had my daughter, I was a single mom. And it was so hard. I worked. I took care of my child. I had no time to myself. When I had like an hour to myself,
I'd play video games, and then I'd end up, like, falling asleep on the couch. You know, I was just so exhausted. And time to yourself is so important. So when it's just one person as the parent, I mean, everything falls on you. Everything.
comes to you and you are so incredibly stressed and you love this other human being that you've given birth to you love them but it's you're just like you just want to go into another room and scream sometimes yeah because there is no break there is no time and my my youngest uh who's seven years younger than my my daughter
he has autism and he also just says what he thinks, you know, completely. And sometimes I'm like, don't say that so much, you know, but I also don't shame my children for being who they are. I mean, My daughter is going to be 25. My son turns 18 in less than one. So, you know, I've been doing this a long time, but... It's just so much. And see, that was the unique thing that I thought I could bring to this discussion is I know. And so I think that made the film resonate more with me.
is the fact that I understand how she feels. And I like the evolution of the character, you know, where she's fighting back to protect her son. You know, it was never that she didn't love him. She was so caught up in her own grief and her own exhaustion. But when she fights back, you know, like screams at the Babadook, oh, I love that fucking scene. like chills. It's so great.
Yeah, because there is a moment, isn't there, in this where you feel like she's just going to succumb to the Babadook, isn't there? We have this scene where it's essentially said that the Babadook almost possesses her. And there is maybe 10 to 15 minutes of the movie where you just think, right, okay, she's just... That's it. Like, Amelia is gone. She doesn't exist anymore. Now it's just the Babadook. It's actually possessing her body. And...
But as it sort of goes on and as it nears that finale, like you're saying, you get the hints that she is trying to fight back a little bit. And then obviously eventually we get this sort of finale where they're in the bedroom and she's sort of confused.
fronted face to face isn't she with the Babadook and she just screams at him she's holding on to Sam and he retreats and eventually they sort of capture and keep him in the basement which you know I'm not I'm not overly convinced that that was like the greatest ending um of all time um but so what i understand about that ending is uh the director i gosh jennifer
Jennifer Kent. So Jennifer Kent wanted that ending because these things, guilt and shame and anger, you know, sort of all the things that the Babadook represents. can't really ever be destroyed. Yeah. So I kind of like how it ends. Yeah, no, I 100%, you know, get the theme of what they were going for with that. So I'm not saying, you know, maybe I don't know, maybe like I just didn't.
it's probably from my perspective because obviously like this really isn't a movie for me for this this this is a movie for you know women and mothers and people who suffer from these you know, affections, people who suffer from this type of grief, people who have autism, people who have other kinds of, like, sort of illnesses. And this really is... That's why it speaks to me a lot.
Well, that's it as well. And the thing is, there's not enough. There just isn't enough movies that are for these groups, essentially, you know, like in the main, you know. horror movies are for the masses you know and they're for everyone to just sort of enjoy because one of the things one of the big things about this movie and this is I think
automatically will just turn like a lot of people off from this. There's no deaths in this movie. This is... just spoilers for everyone the dog does die in this movie but yes and there's no human deaths in this movie and that's a rare thing in horror movies for there to be
No deaths. There aren't a lot out there. There's a couple of really sort of high-profile examples, and you think of things like Poltergeist, The Conjuring, When I was reading it, it also stated, like, when I was, like, sort of trying to remember, like, movies, and I started Googling movies where no one dies, Blair Witch Project keeps popping up, and I was like, mmm.
I don't know if I would count that as no one. No, I mean, because we don't know. Yeah. You know? I think it's pretty heavily inferred that, you know, surely they perish. But, you know, like... certainly Poltergeist and the Conjuring are two very high profile examples of very successful movies where no one dies but I think it's something that might just like immediately turn off someone who's maybe going into a movie because even though
If you boil this down to just basically what it is, this is a supernatural horror movie. It's a boogeyman. Yeah, and in those kinds of movies, people die. There's that sort of ultimate... kind of um danger there and obviously you know our characters are in danger but i just feel like it's dealt with so much better even though there's no deaths in this movie it's so sinister and it's
approach to you know um how our characters are in danger so for example you know you have those sort of like essentially the last half hour the final act is essentially you know our main character attempting to kill her son you know and you have this sort of battle where
she's pretending to be really nice to try and lure him in she's not pretending to be nice she's screaming at him she's calling him names she's chasing him around the house with like a kitchen knife yes you know so like there's there's this sort of battle and i just feel like In terms of the danger factor, it feels just as dangerous as a movie where 10, 20 people have been killed by this sort of boogeyman. I think it's because it's so intimate. That's your child.
And I think also that can be representative of certain aspects and certain versions of postpartum depression that women can experience. It wasn't my experience, but some... have feelings of harming their child and they have to You know, usually a relative will take the child in for about a month until the mother gets stabilized on medication. So, I mean, I really feel it's just another representation of that. And I think as well, like, I think...
It's so much more common as well than people realize. I think people think that this is like, you know, people who don't really know or care to know think that this is just like...
a really rare thing. No, it is not at all. It's such a common thing. Well, when you go through pregnancy, your hormones... go wild and and there's a there's special hormones that are only produced during pregnancy and they're meant to calm you down to keep you calm so the baby has a good environment but when you give birth
your hormones kick in the other direction. So postpartum depression is incredibly common and postpartum anxiety is incredibly common. I had postpartum anxiety. So seven years after I had my first child, when I had my last child, my second child, I knew that I had postpartum anxiety and we had a treatment plan in place because I knew that I was prone to it. But, you know, in the film...
This is Amelia's first and only child, you know, and she's doing it alone. So, you know, I just think that she was prying for something like the Babadook to come in. and to, you know, take over a little bit. It's that thing, isn't it? Because, you know, she's so... vulnerable isn't she that she becomes an easy target for something like the babadook and the babadook can be representative of so many aspects of society as well you know preying on the vulnerable whether that's you know um
I mean, you can literally apply it to anything at all, whether that's like a work environment, other human beings, you know, the lowest of the society, governments, you know, anything at all, like things like this, you can apply this sort of metaphor. to so much aspect. It's taking someone who's in an incredibly vulnerable position and just using them to your advantage, aren't you? So I think definitely, you know,
And again, like, as I was saying, you know, she's not just dealing with, like, one thing. And any one of these things that she is dealing with is enough to put someone in that vulnerable position. Yeah, it's consequential. Losing your partner is something that, you know, is...
that can push people over the edge. You know, depression is something that pushes people over the edge. Raising a disabled child is something that can push people over the edge, you know, and all of these, and she has to deal with it all. And not only that, like you said, dealing with it, alone and one of the sort of big themes of this movie you know she she is essentially abandoned by her only family member we've got which is our sister Claire
Over her son. Over her son, you know, and we get that really uncomfortable scene where it's... Claire's daughter I think her name's Ruby so it's Ruby's birthday party and Claire and Amelia essentially finally have that because you can sense it up until that point we can know that Claire doesn't want to be around Sam doesn't want Sam around you know kind of resents Amelia for some and then it just all comes to a head you get this really sort of horrible scene where
Sam and Ruby are in the treehouse and she's taunting him because he doesn't have a dad and she's saying some really nasty shit. Yeah, some really awful things. And he retaliates by pushing her out and breaks her nose. And there is like that funny scene at the end where he's like telling the counselors, I broke my like cousin's nose in two places. You know, it's like, oh, that's the sort of shit. Maybe you should be saying.
a little bit less of but you know and then you know Claire and Amelia essentially they don't quite come to blows but you know she says some really nasty shit about Sam once again you know and it's just like complete abandonment from your family so not only is she having to raise this child alone she's having to deal with depression having to deal with like sam's autism or whatever it is that he has she's then abandoned
by the only piece of support network she has, the only member, that we at least are shown. And so it... That in itself, again, is something else that can just potentially push someone over the edge, you know? That complete feeling of loneliness and just being lost as well. And I think it makes her, you know, as you mentioned, vulnerable earlier.
It makes her vulnerable for something like the Babadook to come in. It's, you know, an easy in for the Babadook to come in. And he's, the Babadook is manipulating Amelia. She's watching TV, and it's manipulating the images. It shows an image of her getting arrested for murder. She killed her son. And as a mother, you see her recoil. Like, I would never do that. I love my son. I would never do that. You know? But she's absolutely being manipulated by the Babadook. Yeah.
And listen, like I totally get like... she snaps a few times doesn't she at sam throughout like before the possession you can tell yes and i think there's also that feeling of you know she is defending her son like really like she really is defending him throughout this movie And I think, like, there's that sort of maybe part of her where she's like, I'm defending the shit out of you, and you're just not giving me a fucking break. Yeah, well, why can't you be normal?
Yeah, there's that whole scene. And then, you know, I think people sort of do use that, but in that scene, the child is having some sort of fit, some sort of convulsion, you know, the child goes on to have, you know, a serious medical issue.
and it's like there's that scene and this scene never happens because doctors aren't this helpful but there is that scene where you just see that moment of sheer relief isn't there where the doctor finally gives them something just to let them sleep You can see in Amelia, there's just that moment of, oh my god, someone's kind of taking me a little bit seriously here, and they're giving me something that might actually help.
Right. And I don't know. I just think this is such a powerful film. And if I can veer off just a second. Go for it. I thought it was so interesting that the Babadook became... an LGBTQ icon. Sorry. Funny how that came about was Netflix had... put it under LGBTQ, and then the community adopted it. I mean, you can't go to a pride parade without seeing a Babadook. And I'm like, that's iconic. I really...
Like, for a mistake that was made on Netflix, and it was just so embraced by the community. And I kind of dig it, because, you know, it can't be destroyed. So... we still have the Babadook at the end, you know, and I like that. And I, I, I just like that it's a queer icon.
Yeah, yeah, it is. I actually had that a little bit. I had that little tidbit in my trivia earlier because I thought it was really interesting as well, you know, and it has absolutely become like a total queer icon as well, which is fantastic. And like you said, purely down...
to nothing else other than a Netflix editor because Netflix listed it under LGBTQ movies. Sorry, I can't get my letters. Well, it's sort of like that shark that is sold by... um ikea that the trans community has adopted yeah i found this out through my son um who is trans um that almost all trans people own this shark like it got adopted by the trans community you know like it's interesting um the things that the queer community identify with and um you know
get iconographical with. But yeah, the Babadook, the shark, I mean, there's some interesting ones, and I really enjoy that. I think that's awesome. And a lot of the queer community are huge horror fans because they identify with a lot of the characters. Sometimes it's the quote-unquote bad guys. So...
You know, I think there's a lot of psychology behind that that I'm not going to go into right now, but I just, I did want to speak on that. Well, yeah, as well, and it kind of throws back to something that we talked about last week about a certain statement from a certain director as well, isn't it?
This is one of those things. Horror movies are filled with messaging, whether that's political messaging, whether that's pro-LGBTQ. Horror movies have always been at the forefront of... delivering these messages being a space where these themes can be explored and you know all whilst doing it in the guise of haha here's a here's a here's a
unstoppable killing machine going around and stabbing people as well. Like Nightmare on Elm Street 2. Exactly. So it's fun for all the family. Right, right. And it's funny actually you bring up Nightmare on Elm Street because I do think there's elements of
The Babadook being a slightly Freddy Krueger-like character in this movie because he sort of infiltrates her dreams, doesn't he? And she sees things and sort of manipulating her in this sort of sleep-deprived state. And there's weird fingers as well. There's definitely, I think, a bit of inspiration taken there from Freddy Krueger in the design and behaviours of the Babadook as well. And we'll get into...
Like the actual sort of physical Babadook as well throughout this movie. Because I do think it's a very interesting creature design as well. But I have a question for you. Oh, okay. Did this movie scare you? Or give you chills or anything like that. I'm going to say no. This movie... didn't scare me, but I'm also someone who is incredibly desensitized to horror movies at this point. There's very little... And so am I. There's a lot that doesn't scare me. But this...
film had its moments for me. I mean, I'm hard to scare. I think the last movie that scared me was Hereditary. And that's been a minute. So, but, like, this movie actually scared me. Just in moments. Like, you know, when it's doing the ba-ba-ba-ba-duke. You know, I'm not going to try and even do it. That's the best I'm going to do today. But, you know, it was to the point, because I was watching this with my girls, and, like, my kids, and...
we kept doing that to each other just to freak each other around. Like, I just thought that it was genuinely creepy. I think a lot of people find that, and... It's pedestrian for me, honestly, but it got to me. I don't want to sit here and feel like I don't want to come across as one of these people who'd be like, oh, horror movies don't scare me, because that's not the case at all. And, you know, like, a lot of us are desensitized to a lot of things that we
especially since we've watched so many horror movies you know I think a lot specifically around gore and you know yeah gore does nothing to me but you know that doesn't mean to say there aren't still moments within horror movies that get me Home Invasion does tend to be the kind of sub-genre that does still kind of freak me out a little bit. I have such an intense security system on my house. I really do. It's like... It's intense.
But it makes me feel better because Home Invasion freaks me out. I think, yeah, that's like one of the subgenres that does still kind of get me. Especially, you know, non-supernatural ones as well. Because this is a little bit kind of like Home Invasion-y as well, but on a supernatural scale. but like non-supernatural ones. So things like The Strangers, the original one, that's a movie that...
did genuinely scare me. There's moments where in that movie Liv Tyler's floating about the house and we can see our killers in the background and she has no idea and that's the sort of stuff that really freaks me out. The original purge had moments the original part definitely had some moments like that as well and then you know things like the silence of the lambs you know that scene where she's got the night vision goggles on and stuff like that so there's definitely stuff that does still
does still get to me. I wouldn't necessarily say that this movie gets to me, and obviously, you know, like, jump scares still have, like, oh, oh, oh, no, you know, like, a little brief moment. But no, I wouldn't say that this movie necessarily scared me.
But I also am coming at it from a different point of view where a lot of the things that are being discovered in this movie or being explored in this movie don't apply to me. So maybe I just don't have that connection. Yeah, and I was thinking that it bothers me. More as like a mother. Mm-hmm.
you know, towards my child, like, you know, what would I do to protect my child? And if it came down like the Babadook's there and it's going to kill my child, I'm going to scream back at it. I'm going to fight back. You know, so there's... a bit of catharsis there but there's also a fear but there's also i have to be strong and scary and i have to scare it into submission
What I would say is maybe not so much as a fear factor for me, but there's definitely moments in this movie that I find unnerving. And there's definitely moments that I think to myself, oh, you know, that's not like, you know, the scene where she, you know... r.i.p breaks the dog's neck the scene where the neighbor is at the door and she's like pretending that everything is okay and the ability then she has to just sort of slip in and out of being well i'm just a regular mom
to actually I'm the Babadook and I'm being this horrible person. That sort of stuff. That's the sort of stuff that unnerves me about this movie. The scene where she's chasing him around the house with a knife. That's all very... to me, very unnerving. So maybe that doesn't have that fear factor for me, but there's definitely moments in it where I'm, you know, a little bit sort of put out by, a little bit perturbed by, so. Yeah, and in a fucked up way, the Babadook brings them together.
In the end, it absolutely does. But that's it, isn't it? And that can happen about so many things in life. There's this force in your life that... It tries to drive like a wedge in between people and their loved ones or friends or anything like that. And again, it's to isolate, isn't it? It's to make her more vulnerable and make her more susceptible to...
his possession, essentially. We've seen this with other horror villains in slightly different guises. You think of things like Pennywise the clown you know and he scares people to like force them all apart and you know he says oh your meat's tastier when you're scared and things like that but like it's also about the isolation isn't it and making them easier targets and that's definitely
something that's explored quite a lot in this movie so and it's explored very very well like it's very very very very good at it so um Yeah, so I also want to talk about this movie on a slightly more just sort of technical level as well, because this is actually, and you kind of mentioned it earlier, this is actually a very sort of tight movie. It's very, it's a pretty low budget.
the grand scheme of things and you know it's 90 of the movie is very much contained within this house you know there's not a lot of external scenes there's quite a few scenes in the car but again It's one of the sort of impressive things I think about this movie, because there's little to no effects, apart from, you know, some of the Babadook effects, but there's little to nothing in the whole sort of grand scheme of this movie.
And I think, like you say, it's very... does atmosphere very well it's very atmospheric it's very claustrophobic because you're just combined in this house and the characters even acknowledge it at one point you know the mother i think says oh we're just
cooped up in this house all the time like we're cooped up for way too long this is why you know we're you know sort of going through the things that we're going through um and I just wanted to sort of I think I think the movie deserves a lot of praise for sort of creating that kind of atmosphere. Absolutely. And again, I think that this speaks to a single mother on a fixed budget.
you know with a child who it you know is having some issues that need to be sorted so you know you get stuck in the house you know there's not a lot of places you can go you've lost you know You've lost your friends and your loved ones. It's very, very isolating and claustrophobic. I just think it made it, you know, it made them prone to something like the Babadook happening.
Yeah, I would agree with that 100%. And then you've got the Babadook as well. The Babadook itself is quite a... unique looking horror villain I would say in terms of like the grand scheme of horror movies and all the kind of different horror villains you have out there maybe not necessarily unique in his approach
you know like this whole sort of set conquer divide and conquer approach is you know I could say it's something that's been explored before but I think in terms of how this character looks is very unique we've got we obviously sort of get introduced to him through this like children's book and it's almost like nursery rhyme-esque um and it's a really fucking cool like pop-up book it's amazing
That's what I'm saying. And the visuals of it are really... The Babadook itself is such a unique character design. That in it, I find that relatively creepy and relatively freaky, just sort of looking at it. If you look at just a still image of the Babadook from the movie on Google... looks a little ridiculous yeah but you know in the movie and they do it really really well because it's literally fleeting glances that you get of the babadook and this is one of the things shadows and and when
do see the Babadook move, it's very fucking creepy. Yeah, he moves in a very sort of unique way, isn't it? It's almost stop-motion-esque, the way the Babadook moves in this movie, and it's... I find that to be quite... creepy that really adds to the sort of scare factor of him and it's again just relatively unique and I really really enjoyed that and it but the movie very much goes on like with the less is more mantra in terms of what you actually
And we think about, like, our great horror villains of the past. And, you know, one of my favourites being, you know, Michael Myers, for example. And one of the great things about that are, you know, Pinhead or even... I'm a Freddy Krueger person. We see plenty of Freddy Krueger. Yes. That's his appeal. But even if you go to things like Jaws, for example, all these movies, the villain of the piece are seen...
Physically seen for so little of the movie. I feel like for the Babadook, it was absolutely the right call. I think if we started seeing more of him, if he was appearing more... other than, you know, these sort of brief glimpses we were getting, then I think that would have taken a lot out of the movie. I think that would have taken the bloom off the rose a little bit.
wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective and I love these sorts of brief glimpses again where it's playing with like Amelia's mind so when she's looking in through the neighbor's window you see him standing behind her when she's at the police station and he's like sort of you know he's on the close hook You know, as the closure, you can see his hands. And then you get the, there's only really one moment in the movie.
Where you actually see the Babadook's face as well, and that's when he possesses her as well. So I really enjoy the fact that we didn't get to see a lot of the Babadook. Yeah, I think less is more. And that's what I think a lot of horror... films like forget especially if you're doing something low budget um to reference something shitty we did
Any of the Winnie the Pooh blood and honey because they were intense on showing the gore. They are cinematic masterpieces. Yeah. But I mean, I'm just saying, like, if you have a low budget, less is more. Less can be scarier than more. Unless you're like, you know, George Romero doing a gore film and his gore is top notch. I mean, really, you can do a story and it can be scary. And it can be atmospheric and you don't need to constantly show the monster. Yeah.
Yeah, 100%, 100%. And, you know, me and Nico have said this from the beginning of this podcast, including, you know, since you came on board as a prior November, one of the things we've said from the very beginning is less is more.
Less is always more. And, you know, another one that comes to my mind is Alien, for example. You know, that movie. And that's maybe something that's maybe a little bit... they're very different movies but a little bit closer in this in terms of the fact that it's very claustrophobic it's very atmospheric you know and that's that's like 90% of the sort of fear factor of thought that movie is that sort of claustrophobia that atmosphere that it creates but you see literally
You would just hear them scream as they got carted off. I think that makes it scarier. Absolutely. You know, and like, we hear the Babadook plenty in this movie. You know, like you say, he's, you know, they're constantly... that raspy voice that I'm also not gonna attempt my attempt was really bad but I mean I think it genuinely creeps you out like when you hear it you're like oh fuck you know
And I really, it's effective. You don't see the Babadook at that time. You just hear it. And that, I think, makes it scarier and creepier. I think as well, like going back to the themes of this movie.
There's that scene, isn't there, where, you know, they're at... you know she's around our sister's house and all of her sister's friends are there and she snaps at one of them because she's like oh i can't even go to the gym anymore and she's just like oh what a fucking shame you can't go to the gym anymore and it's like There's people out there who just don't get it and aren't there. They just don't understand the sort of pressures that...
And this goes for lots of different aspects of life, not just the themes that are being talked about in this movie. And it's one of those things that we always say, especially for those of us who... um you know have dealt with depression or have had like have friends with depression it's always you never ever know what someone else is going through you know and this this to this woman you know
Not going to the gym is apparently the end of the fucking world for this woman, when she's in a room with someone who's had to go through so much personal tragedy. who's having to go through such a difficult time in her life. But there are people out there that are just that tone deaf. Oh, yeah. I mean, I've experienced it myself. How I explain is I have a severe anxiety disorder and it's like I have to take medication for the rest of my life. It's severe.
And people are like, oh, I get nervous sometimes, so I have to talk in front of people. And I just, I have to hold my tongue. It's like, no, it's more than that. I have anxiety when I'm not even talking to anybody. I just have these... really intense panic attacks, I'm sweating, I can't breathe, and, you know, and it takes everything in you not to be mad or irritated, but I also realize, like,
They're not going to understand. And I can't hold it against them because they're trying to be nice. But, you know, when you're in that moment, you're just like, oh, my God.
Or like, just stop being so nervous. Why didn't I think of that? Try and be just, you know, less sad. Yeah, like it's a choice or something. If I could have chosen, I wouldn't have chosen this. Yeah, I think there is an aspect of that well because obviously at the end of the movie you know you know we get that scene that don't we like once everything is all better you know
she's talking to the counselors and she knows that the counselors don't understand anything of what she's gone through and you know Sam's still there next to her isn't he you know saying all these things you know I broke my cousin's nose in two places I'm the reason like my dad
dad's dead sort of thing and this time though she's just sort of being like yeah that's some like that he says what he thinks and seems like in a much better place because she's maybe just accepted the fact that you know what
You're going to get odd looks because of the way her son is. Everything's not always going to be easy. Everything's not always going to be perfect. But she's... accepted it hasn't she she's accepted that you know this is the way my son is i love my son this is the way my life is and you know i i kind of just have to make the best of it and like you say keep and i do agree with like keeping the babadook in the basement there you know
There's always that chance that, you know, he's going to escape. And we see that moment, don't we, when she goes down to feed the Babadook where it looks like he's about to overpower her again.
you know and but that's what like these illnesses are like that's what depression is like you know you can be fine and then suddenly sometimes just for brief moments sometimes for a few hours sometimes again you go on full you know depressive episodes for days and weeks and months but that's what it's like that's what the illness is like and it's a really good representation of that yeah and
I think, you know, when you take that representation of Babadook being the mental illness and, you know, depression, things like that, and the way that she fights back against it. kind of gets it under control, it's not gone away, but she has a better handle on it. And so, this is just, you know, it's definitely elevated horror. which that's a dirty word to some people, but I love elevated horror, you know, because you can apply so much to it. You can get more out of it. And I think,
Sometimes it's what we bring to it that can, you know, elevate it. So I just really think that it's rich with, you know, representing so many different things and uh you can get so many different things from it and i just i just like that in a horror movie
Yeah, and I think that's also why, though, this movie, like, this movie is never ever going to be, like, number one on anyone's lists. This is never going to be, like, aggregated. Like, I can tell you right now, like, this is not going to hit, like, the tippity-top of our leaderboards. And, you know, like...
Even amongst our critic scores, which we'll go into later, there's really polarising kind of scores in there. And it's that as well. And some people just don't... Again, I hate talking about this because... It makes me feel like, oh, you just don't kind of get it. You know, you're not thinking about it hard enough. But this movie just isn't there for everyone. Not everyone is going to understand. And it is very much...
it's kind of a bring your own experience to this movie sort of thing, isn't it? And like, I get that's maybe why, you know,
Upon my first watch, I was kind of dismissive about this movie. But as I said earlier, I don't think this movie is really for me. Especially with some of the main themes. I can relate to, you know... be like depression i can relate to that i can't relate to being a single mother i can't relate to like my partner dying i can't relate to you know having postpartum depression i can't relate to having a child at all you know so like this movie really isn't
for everyone and that's always going to make it really polarizing because there are people out there who think that everything should be for them like they should be able to like have everything be surrounded by them and be about them and listen just because those themes aren't for everyone doesn't mean they're still not enjoyment to be found in this movie this is still a very well even if you dismiss all of the things thematically
On the face of it, this is still a pretty enjoyable, pretty creepy, just standard supernatural horror movie about this boogeyman. Like, even if you don't want to look into it, and I think that's where the big positive in this movie comes for me, is that... This movie isn't for everyone, and I think that has hampered it in terms of its popularity. I also think it's definitely got that cult status because of being embraced by the queer community.
And, you know, people who find the elevation in this elevated horror, you know? But also, like, listening and reading a few of the things that the director had also said... She doesn't care that this movie, she's not making this movie for everyone. She's making this movie for the people who are going to understand it thematically, you know? And I always appreciate the fuck when people do that. Like, I just think that that's amazing.
Yeah, 100%. You're making your art and you're not being apologetic about it. One of the things about this movie, a good portion of this movie was crowdfunded. This didn't really have any sort of major studio backing. Wasn't it crowdfunded because... The financiers wanted the Babadook to be defeated. And she said no.
Yes, so again, I had this for trivia, but I'll get into it just now. I'm sorry. No, no, no, it's absolutely fine. I was alluding to it anyway. So the director, Jennifer Kent, has stated that American distributors were willing to help raise the budget on the condition that... the Babadook be killed at the end.
Kent refused as the Babadook represents inner demons to her like mental illness or suppressed trauma which stick with people for the rest of their lives. She didn't want to give the impression that something like that could just simply be killed and life will just return to normal. and the movie was partly financed through crowdfunding instead. So you're absolutely spot on.
And again, it's the director being true to the story she's telling as well. It would be really easy for her to turn around and be like, oh, great, this studio is going to give me another $2 million for the budget. But then she'd be making a story that...
would be less impactful because the message would be wrong essentially and you know wasn't true to like just the story she's trying to tell so you know there's got to be some big kudos that goes to the director for sort of sticking to our guns there as well
Yeah, and I think, you know, when you're making art, you have to follow your vision. Yeah, 100%. And the thing is, like, people will pick up on the thought that, like... you're telling if a director or a producer or a writer is telling a story that they don't actually want to tell or there's aspects of the story they don't want to tell you know that that'll be picked up on so quickly by people if like there's not a full 100
percent this is what I want on on the screen you know so I definitely give it for that um on that note I'm going to open up the floor for you, Candy, if there's anything else you would like to discuss about this movie. I've kind of talked a lot, but I feel like this is, like you were saying, a movie maybe you can relate to a little bit more. So is there anything else about The Babadook you'd like to discuss?
I think we've covered really my main points, you know, just what I bring to it as, you know, having been a single mother when I had my daughter. And just the myriad of emotions that you go through. And she had medical problems when she was younger. You know, and I was so unbelievably stressed out and working and just, I was like a zombie.
Did I love every minute of it? No. But as a mother, especially a first-time mother, you feel guilty. It doesn't mean that there wasn't a moment that I didn't love her, but love what I'm doing? Oh, God, no. It was just... and work and no sleep and this and that and you have such intense guilt it's almost like you could personify it as something like the bravadoop like yeah okay it can like you can feed all this negativity
like energy that you have into something and it can become bigger. And, you know, I suffered with postpartum, not depression, but anxiety. And that was kind of not really a diagnosis at that time. time it became bigger once I had my son which was seven years later there's such a big gap between my kids and they're like oh postpartum anxiety here's meds okay we're going to prevent this from happening and it was a much easier experience because of that
But, you know, it just really captures that well. And I genuinely find the film creepy. When people mention elevated horror, this is always part of the conversation. I think as well, you know, one last thing, sorry for me as well, is there is also that aspect of, isn't there, of...
female medical problems or women's medical problems just not being taken seriously by people? I don't know. I mean, they're like, oh, people have babies every day. And I'm like, I had a C-section. My kids were gigantic. My daughter was 10 pounds. My son was 11 pounds. So I had a C-section each time. And it's just...
You know, and then the drop off of the hormones. I mean, your body, your mind is like so all over the place. It is so hard. And it's hard to explain to somebody who hasn't been through it. Yeah. It's just like a nightmare in a way. Like, you know, all these hormones and then they stop and then, you know, it's very, very difficult. But I think the film captures... those kinds of things very well.
I also come from a family of big babies. I myself was 10 pounds, three ounces when I was born. My nephew is like 11 pound four or something like that. So I also come from a family. That's how big my kids were and there was no giving birth to them. They had a good
c-section they were giant i think the like the lightest person in my fight my like in my sort of immediate circle i think was my sister and she was still like nine pounds something so like we're just it was like a typical baby at 7-eleven and my brothers were four pounds each because they were twins. I don't know where the big babies came from for me. They're just giant. That's the same for us. They're super tall.
I mean, I'm six foot and I'm the tallest in my family. I don't know where I got that from because my dad is like five foot five and my mom's like five six. So like they're short people. There's weird things that skip generations. I do have a bit. have quite a tall grandad, so maybe it's just a skipped generation thing. I'm just glad that twins skip a generation. So my mom had twins, which meant I didn't.
Oh, yeah. I mean, like, it may be fun for being a twin, but maybe not so much for the parent. Oh, yeah. Cool. Okay. Anyways, on that note, there is some other stuff to be discussed. There's quite a bit of trivia. around this movie which is great so uh we'll fire on into that and we will talk about it well let's talk about the trivia
I'm sure if we bashed your head in, all sorts of secrets would come tumbling out. As always, we'll start off with the finances of the movie. So this movie had a budget, according to IMDB, of approximately $2 million. So that's where I'm saying it's a rally.
relatively low budget movie it's you know it's that's still a bit of a budget for like independent horror movies you know and you think about like the terrifier franchise that we talk about so often you know two million dollars is like the highest budget movie for those so far and things like that so you know it's not a tiny budget but for an independent horror movie but in the grand scheme of movie making it's nothing worldwide it grossed approximately 10.6 million dollars
so you know it's made good money return on its budget not like breaking any records or anything in the US it only made about a million dollars at the box office because this is of course an Australian movie which we haven't really mentioned yet. But, you know, to go from $2 million to $10.5 million is a pretty good return. Absolutely. So, yeah.
Oh, quickly, so obviously, um, in the trivia, I had stated, like, the film became a meme and a symbol for the LGBTQ community after Netflix accidentally placed it under the LGBT movie subtitle, so that was really, uh, so, that, that, again, we've...
talked about that but that's that's a cool thing that happened you know i love it when stuff like that happens and i've already stated about um you know american distributors willing to help the budget but only on the condition that the babadook died which is obviously rejected so just to sort of throw those out there
Quickly. But other bits of trivia I have. So the director Jennifer Kent holds the full rights to this movie. There's no studios. There's no one else. The director holds the rights to the film, which is so... uncommon in filmmaking yeah that's very strange she has been asked many many times and again this is this is something that i really love about this because
She has been asked many, many times if there would be a sequel and she has stated, I will never allow any sequel to be made because it's not that kind of film. I don't care how much I'm offered. It's just not going to happen. And there is absolutely no need for a sequel to this movie. No. At all. You know, Nico, we laugh at Nico all the time because he always wants sequels and prequels and he wants more of the story told. I don't think there's more of this story.
be told we get what the babadook is and we get the story with this particular sort of mother and child there's nothing else here to be told all you would get essentially is a story of the babadook preying on someone else and you'd just be telling the same story over again, really, wouldn't you? And I think that the original film would lose something if you did that. So, I mean, yeah, this is definitely a standalone, and I'm glad that she's sticking to her guns, and...
you know, once again, and say no, you know? And it's good, because, like, you know, how many movies have there been where sequels have come out, and they've just...
Not... Some movies, you know, deserve a sequel. Some movies need a sequel. Some people set out. Again, you know, talking about, like, the Terrifier franchise. That's... set to be a franchise of movies you know Damien Leone had this sort of master plan of you know we're going to make this over three or four movies you know so and that's fine that's absolutely fine but not
everything needs to have sequels not everything right prequels and i think all too often we just get these unnecessary additional movies and this is partly where this sort of whole argument comes you know when these people who are like oh this whole Hollywood running out of ideas. Because every single year we hear that, don't we? Like from a certain group of like movie fans is that, oh, Hollywood's run out of ideas. They're just doing sequels and remakes and things like that.
But there's so much good original content coming out every single year. I think those people need to dig in more on something like Shudder or any of the other streaming services. and see that there are plenty of horror movies that are original that are out there. It's just maybe they don't have a big studio behind them. Yeah, and I think if you look at 2025, if you go back to our 2025 preview episode...
Yes, there's a lot of sequels coming out this year. We talked about quite a lot of them. There's lots. There's an 11th entry to the Saw franchise. There's another entry coming to Final Destination. There's another, you know... conjuring movie coming out there's a whole host of other sequels and things coming out but even already this year you could things like heart eyes is coming out that's getting really sort of rave reviews i think um
Oh, it's just escaped me. The monkey is getting pretty rave reviews that's coming out, and there's a whole host of other stuff out there that I'm overlooking at the moment, but there's tons and tons of... great original stories original content like you say because the majority of it is not backed by a major film studio it just kind of gets lost in the shuffle and that's that's kaput
Partly while you were here to try and maybe, you know, bring some of those to the forefront as well. Absolutely. William Friedkin, who famously is the director of The Exorcist. quite often and dubbed and relatively widely accepted to be one of the scariest horror movies of all time, The Exorcist. He has stated in an interview that The Babadook, he has never seen a more terrifying film than The Babadook. So...
Big thumbs up from William Friedkin there. And you know what? We've done The Exorcist. We've talked about The Exorcist. And some people have some things to say about William Friedkin. But that's still a pretty glowing endorsement from someone who directed what is widely considered the greatest horror movie of all time. Yeah. Um...
So according to writer and director Jennifer Kent, The Babadook was designed based on stills from a lost movie from the 1920s. So it's a movie called London After Midnight, which was released in 1927, that starred Lon Chet. cheney senior as well so you know going back all the way to horror roots as well and it goes like what we were saying as well about you know just how sort of unique this design is you know the the
The reference point for this character is going back a whole century almost. 1927 was 98 years ago. So that's really great that it's also going back into horror roots as well. Yeah, and Lon Chaney was so impressive on the screen. I love classic films, and... Just, you know, he was known as the man with a thousand faces, but he had some really scary countenances that he played. And so I can 100% see that. Yeah.
Oh, 100%. And, you know, it was really great to see again, going back to our awards, Lon Chaney, both junior and senior, getting some love in the Hall of Fame. category this year they got a lot of votes a lot of people were talking about them when we were casting for that so that was really pleasing to see as well several female critics and this is why This really annoys me because this is why we should sometimes just not listen to critics, right?
So several female critics were offended by the portrayal of Amelia, stating that no mother would ever mistreat her son like this. However, director Jennifer Kent said that she was approached by several women afterwards who admitted that being a mother is hard and it would sometimes... give them negative thoughts of mistreating their children, even if they would never act on such ideas. Most women thanked Kent for finally addressing that taboo.
Yeah, I mean, I don't believe in corporal punishment. I rarely ever even punish my kids in the way of grounding or suspending of privileges. I parent very interestingly. But it's like, have they fucking just... pissed me off oh my god but it's like that's when you're just like I'll be right back you go in the bathroom and you're like okay I'm gonna breathe I'm gonna breathe I'm gonna breathe and then you I would sit down to my kids and talk to them and they're all like
Extremely well-behaved children. But every parent, it doesn't even matter if you're a mother, but every parent has had these thoughts of irritation that you're trying not to show, of... frustration. So I just think that they're very ill-informed, these women.
Yeah, and I think in the long run, you know, your children will have so much more respect for you as well, if that's the sort of style of parenting you choose to go for. Oh, my kids and I are very close, and they're all adults, and we... talk all the time, and they respect, you know, what I think, but it's because I've always showed them respect, so, you know, I mean, it's...
I'm not the perfect mother, but I do have a great relationship. Ultimately, I think a lot of parents, both men and women, they don't treat their children like human beings they treat them like possessions you know and then you can very much tell the difference in like a child's behavior about like what their parents sort of parenting techniques are can't you so Yeah, my kids turned out great, so I did something good. I think I did something right.
But, um, yeah, I mean, you have those moments where you're just want to pull your hair out and you can't show that to them. But I mean, do you have these thoughts of like, oh my God, you do. And so even if it's not in the way. that Amelia does it in the film, and you feel these things sometimes. And I like that it...
I think if she was just feeling them and not showing them, the movie would have been rather boring. You know, there would have been like some internal struggle with her. So, I mean, I think just even representing these things. is just kind of reinforcing, like, hey, all parents feel this way. Yeah. On one way or another. Exactly. Okay, so just a couple more bits for me.
Bugsy the dog we didn't really talk about the dog too much very very cute yeah for a reason for me in this movie Bugsy the dog's real name is Hatchie in real life and as of 2020 this is just a little fun one as of 2024 this is his only acting credit so he's he's came in did the babadook and is now at home probably just getting some belly scratches and not really caring about life so big big up big up to hatchy um
Last piece of trivia for me. So Jennifer Kent, director, was very sensitive about introducing the themes of this film to our child star, Noah Wiseman. We haven't really talked about the performance of Noah Wiseman as our child star in this movie because... children's performances, especially as ones as young as Noah Wiseman was six years old when this was filmed. Children's performances at that age can very much vary, you know, from movie to movie. You can...
What I will say is, as annoying as anyone might have found the performance by Noah Weissman, it's an incredibly strong performance that he gives. So big props to that. During the three weeks of pre-production, she carefully gave him a child-friendly version of what the story was about.
Wiseman's mother was on set throughout the filming and Wiseman himself was never actually present on set during scenes in which S.E. Davis' character abuses her son. These were always delivered to lines by an adult actor who stood on their knees. and Kent is quoted as saying I didn't want to destroy a childhood to make this film to get the reaction shots of Wiseman looking terrified Davies has said things to him like, I'm going to take your Lego and throw them into the river.
Which, you know what, I think for a lot of, like, fully grown adults, that would convey a pretty terrified... We are a Lego family, so yeah, I'd be like, no!
Legos expensive! And they're so cool! Like, no, don't take my Legos! But, you know, again, I guess just a sign of, you know... how sort of thoughtfully this movie was put together as well because you know we've all heard horror stories from about directors you know we just mentioned William Friedkin for example and some of the horrors that were on the set of The Exorcist and you know you're probably talking most famously about Stanley Kubrick
in The Shining, and we all know your thoughts on that movie. But these sort of techniques that actors go through, and some of them... Alfred Hitchcock probably being another one of them who is seen in this sort of god of horror movies and to an extent is but put some of his actors through some really not nice stuff and we've heard stories of directors shooting
shooting guns in people's ears. And, you know, I don't, yeah, exactly. You know, I don't necessarily mind, you know, there's that scene, like the chest bursting scene in Alien, of course, like famously the cast didn't know.
what was about to happen so like their reaction is real I get that and those sorts of instances I think fine you're not really like they know something is about to happen but they don't know what it is and I don't really feel like you're putting them too much through the ringer in that sense but you know
to do things like some of the things we've just stated, you know, really can have long-lasting traumatic effects. Look at what happened to Shelley Duvall and look at the long-lasting effects that she had, you know, from making The Shining. So it was really good to read that Hiroshi was...
really considerate about our child actor in this movie as well yeah but that is it that's what i've got for trivia a good chunk of trivia about this movie which is always nice to see anything that you have to add candy No. Okay. With that being said then, let's go on to our final segment, which is our ratings and our reviews. A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans.
and a nice Chianti. I got quite a few. Excellent. We'll let you go first. We'll do the critics first as we normally do. IMDB had this at a 6.8. 8 out of 10, which I think is pretty harsh. But this is where Metacritic, who's usually even harsher than IMDb, had this at an 8.6. So they had this way higher than IMDb did. What do you think? I think this is the interesting part. What do you think the Rotten Tomatoes critics scored the Babadook? 72.
So the Rotten Tomatoes critics currently has this at 98%. This is almost a 100% movie. This is like at the top. This is almost... perfect score from the RT critics which is great to see the critics consensus the Babadook relies on real horror rather than cheap jump scares and boasts a heartfelt genuinely moving story to boot
And it's one of those things, isn't it? Like, this kind of story, the kind of messages that are being told are generally ones that the critics don't get. They don't like them. So it's really happy to see that you've got such a high score. What do you think the RT audience scored this? 86. What did you say? What did you guess for the critic score? 72.
You should have used that for the audience because they scored it 72% from the audience. So I was thinking lower, but I didn't want to go too low. It's still a fresh score from the audience. Again, I think it's probably just representative of the fact that it is probably quite a poor score.
polarizing movie um yeah i think there's some people it's maybe not for you know um as always we throw out to our listeners and our viewers and our followers on social media and ask for some of their scores candy you said you had a few so would you like to uh pop through some of them? Sure. In reply to my story about the Babadook on Instagram, Ordinary Things Band gave it an eight.
Hold on. I lost the other one. Okay. And our friend Sarah Marie Ferry says, this one gets me. Six out of ten. Those book illustrations are epic. Awesome. Excellent. A six. I thought Sushi might have been a little bit higher than that. I know, I'm kind of surprised, and I got a long one from Ren on Threads. Oh, excellent. That's great, because for once, I don't have to read Ren's review out. Ren said, A very smart and terrifying way of dealing
option for the victim to either learn to live with it or meet their demise. As someone that was diagnosed with depression at a young age and had very intrusive thoughts at points, the themes of this film hit very close to home. I think this is not only a great film but an important one for the genre. Weird kid aside, this is nearly perfect. 8.7 out of 10. 8.7, being very specific. Maybe he's just done that to piss and you go off. Yeah.
And I have one more from Threads, and it's just a number. Jeremy, one Chicago, gave it a two. A two. With no explanation. Oh, no, I feel like when you give a movie like this such a low score... I want to know why, yeah. I feel like it does need to have some sort of explanation as to why, but... Okay, we'll let them off with that one.
I have a few more just to add on top of that. So Fernby Films on Thread says, it's telling how effective this film was that I can walk into the office at work in Australia and screech Duke, Duke, Duke, and everyone knows what I'm writing.
So, again, maybe that is something as well, because, you know, we're obviously from different parts of the world, but this maybe is a movie that does have a significantly bigger resonance in Australia, because that's... you know where it was made so um you know like like i said it only made one million at the the u.s box office i'm not sure how much it made at the uk i would imagine the majority of the money it made was made in the australian box office so
Yeah. Nightmare Nerd, friend of the show, gives this a 7. I liked it up until they actually started showing the monster and went full Supernatural. The ambiguity was very effective up to that point. There is a moment where it becomes, I think, a slightly more traditional supernatural movie later in the movie when more stuff happens. So I do kind of get that to a point.
I wouldn't say they started showing the monster in any real great detail. I know we only really get one actual shot of the monster's proper face. I know we get a couple of likes. glances at it. But a 7 out of 10 is still a very good short. And finally from me,
Our good friend, as always, Newman, emailed in from the Movies for Days podcast, also gives it a 7 out of 10. There's a lot to love here. The lead gives a vulnerable and tender performance. The metaphor is sound and really resonates for many who've struggled with depression.
The design of the Babadook is genuinely creepy and memorable and somehow became a gay icon. The overhyping from many in the fanbase has soured my view on the film a little bit, and combined with memories of how ear-piercing the sun is, I've been reluctant to give it a rewatch I really didn't find the sun to be like as ear piercing this time on like
a further rewatch. I remember the very first time I watched this being like, just like everyone else, and being like, oh my god, like, will that kid please shut up? You know, but I really didn't find it anywhere near as bothersome. Yeah, my friend Niko was like, throw the whole kid away. I was like, no. Well, our friend and co-host, Niko, had... has sent in his score, and with a few words. Nico only gives it a 4 out of 10.
what he says i get the meaning behind the movie but not my cup of tea this is a depressing film it just didn't entertain me it's more of an artsy festival movie and i tend not to like those kind of movies And he goes, oh, and the kid just annoys the shit out of me. So, you know, Nico may be falling into, you know, what we were talking about there. If it's a polarizing movie for you.
that tends to seem to be the sort of overriding feeling of it that tends to be what people sort of cling on to they cling on to the fact that maybe the kid's a little annoying and you know sort of thing so That was the score from Nico. Anyways, all of our listener scores means, unfortunately, that 2 does drag it down a little bit. Our listeners, on average, gave this movie a 5.3.
You know, a couple of lower scores there. No, we didn't. I don't think I got any tens in what I read out. And usually we get a couple of tens and nines and things. And that does just like, you know, peak it up. But it was a lot of sevens and sixes and then some. lower scores. And that's maybe what I was saying earlier as well, you know, I don't think this is ever going to really be at the top of anyone's lists. No, I mean, there's too many people who...
didn't get it or it's just not for them yeah so i think that really hampered it when it comes to the audience scores because it meant the people who really didn't like this movie giving it lower scores is going to take that score down you know quite a bit which is unfortunate um yeah that leaves me and you to give our scores. This was my pick, so I'll go first this week. This movie...
It's like I say, when I first watched it, I fell into all those same traps that everyone who hates this movie, I was like, the kid's really annoying, like, get the fucking kid off my screen, like, I didn't really get it, like... yeah whatever and i probably would have given it a similar score to nico i probably would have come in and been like ah four out of ten you know but you know upon rewatches and and maybe giving it some time to breathe as well you know
came back to the movie a few years later and had some time to sort of think about it and breathe and went into it a little bit more open-minded I think on a second viewing. definitely sort of understood the themes and the sort of things this movie was trying to sort of represent and tackle.
And whilst I can't really resonate with quite a lot of the themes of this movie, it's not really for me, there are still aspects, you know, as someone who suffers from depression, I could certainly appreciate that side of things. Maybe just not this sort of type of depression where it's... very much grief-led or postpartum or anything like that.
Definitely, you know, maybe not necessarily a movie for me, but something I can really appreciate. I really thought they did a great job with the character design, with our design of the Babadook. Like I say, again... one hit movie, but a now icon in terms of horror villains. The Babadook is definitely in conversations. It's never going to be in there with the A-listers of, you know, Freddy Krueger and Jason, but definitely
in the conversation when you start going down the list of horror villains so I think that's always good as well and you know some a really memorable performance by you know our lead actress in this movie as well she gave a really great performance I think her and the director it went to the same like sort of has the same sort of acting school.
Yeah. Or things like that. So she knew, Essie Davis, sorry, is the name of our main actress. So, you know, she knew the kind of performance. She really did bring a lot of heart. Because I think it would have been really easy for her to just deliver this sort of cold performance. don't think that would have hit in the same way. She really gave a lot of heart to the performance as well. So overall, I'm going to give the Babadook a 7.5. That's a pretty good score. I've definitely came...
more around to it in the last couple of years. And again, looking at where I land with a lot of movies, I think that's roughly where I would put it. Maybe just not quite in that top tier, not a movie. Not a movie I would revisit often. I don't think you need to revisit this movie often, though. I think, you know, it's just one of those kind of movies, especially with the themes it deals with. Anyways, Kandi, that just leaves you. What are you going to score to the Babadook?
I give it a 9.5 out of 10. This movie really spoke to me. Not that my experience was exactly similar or anything to the main characters, but I am a mother. And, you know, the parts, there are certain parts that really, really spoke to me. Like, you know, when she stands up to the Babadook, that scream, that, you know, sort of shrinks the Babadook. down and it makes him easy to capture you know that scream for her child to protect it you know and it's there's a lot of character growth there's
I don't know, the first time I saw it, it just blew me away. And the times I've seen it consecutively, I mean, and like you said, it's not something I can visit, like, right on top of each other, but... I watched it the first time when it first came out, and I saw it again.
uh joe bob did it uh i don't know if it was last season or the season before and so visiting it with joe bob always gives me like a lot of enrichment and and then re-watching it again so i've seen it like three times and every time you know um I get caught up in this story and I just really think it has a lot to say and it's important and has a lot of heart. It has a lot of... There's just so many emotions that I think a lot of people can relate to. And the Babadook itself is frightening.
Yeah, I would agree with pretty much everything you say there. It definitely has...
Again, whilst I was saying, you know, maybe not so much the fear factor for me, it definitely is very unsettling. And I feel like dealing with the kind of themes that this movie deals with is very unsettling themes. And I think that's always something that needs to be done with... a bit of care and a bit of attention you know especially when you're dealing with themes like depression with like postpartum like grief you know it has to be dealt with with
sort of compassion and dealt with very carefully otherwise I think your movie is just in danger of falling flat on their face so I think they did a really great job with this so yeah that's a great score a 9.5 there and given all of our scores combined Bind with you guys, our followers and listeners. I'm the critics. gives the Babadook an average of 7.34 out of 10. That's much better. A good score there. It puts it in 53rd place of the now...
122 movies that we have reviewed on this podcast. So, again, much like last week's episode with Suspiria, because it's just a couple of places below Suspiria, you know... I think it's a good placing for it. I probably would like to see The Babadook a little bit higher, but, you know, again, as we were saying, that kind of polarizing nature of movies.
And especially as our leaderboard continues to fill up and fill up more, you know, it gets harder and harder for these movies to hit into those, like, sort of top... those top places. So 7.34, 53rd place, one place below Hard Candy, one place above An American Werewolf in London. Wow. So there we have it. Do you Candy have your list of ratings to hand?
I do. Okay, we're going to go through a few more of these because we are very much, you're very much catching up now, but we've still got quite a few to get through, so... just to get some more of your scores for movies that we've reviewed in the past before you became a permanent member of the show. and just get some scores for you and update our leaderboard a little bit. So, we're going to kick off with one that is widely considered to be one of the classic horror movies.
is widely considered to be the savior of horror in the 1990s. Candy, I want your opinion on Scream. On Scream. let me look I feel like it's a little pointless me telling you where they are on the leaderboard now because I feel like that list was maybe we've had so many changes and so many new films added to this point Scream currently sits in 49th place on our leaderboard yeah
I have it 36. I give Scream an 8. I do really enjoy the first Scream, even though my two favorite characters die. Or maybe they didn't. What do you think? Confused in keeping up with that. I don't care for any of the other screen movies but I do really enjoy the first one. Okay.
That's great. I'll reveal where everything's been moved to because a few of these movies are very similar in position. So I also want, just a few places above it currently on the leaderboard, your opinion on Hellraiser from 1987. Hellraiser gets a 9. I love Hellraiser. I adore that movie so, so much. Nico also gave it a 9. I gave it a 9.3. I think I was in an annoying Nico mood that day. One place above it, currently on the leaderboard, Candy, what are your thoughts on Gremlin?
I gave Gremlins a 6. I really loved it as a kid. But it was a movie I quickly outgrew once I got to be about eight. That's fun. That's funny because I enjoy Gremlins. I actually think I prefer Gremlins 2 to Gremlins. Oh, no. Ew. Nico gave Gremlins an 8 and I gave it a 6.5. So we're very similar in score there. That's quite interesting. Okay. What about your thoughts on an American werewolf in London?
I give it a 9.5. I think it's a fantastic film that should be higher on the leaderboard than it really is. I don't even care. I'm not a werewolf person, but it is such a fucking classic. It is... amazing. It has its funny moments and just everything about that movie is pretty fucking great. I know your friend Nico, former guest of the show, it was his bucket list horror movie on the show, actually. Oh, yeah. Yeah, my Nico, that's his favorite movie.
Okay, we'll just do a couple more very quickly and then that'll be us for today. So can I get, we'll move down the leaderboard a little bit now. Can I get your score on... Let's have a look. Struggling to pick one here. Insidious from 2010. It's currently in 86th place. Okay. Sidious. Pardon me while I dig around in my list here. It's alright. Why can't I? Oh, I gave it a five. Okay. And most of that five is for Patrick Wilson, who I have a major crush on.
That's fair. I think we've talked about Patrick Wilson quite a lot. I will bring him up at any opportunity. Patrick Wilson and Tom Atkins. Oh. Yes. Those are the two. Okay, we'll do one more then. Can I get your score, please, for... Krampus from 2015, currently in 68th place. I actually have not seen Krampus. Oh, okay, then we'll go for the movie that's directly above it, because you weren't on this episode, but we talk about this franchise all the time. Terrifier 2! Terrifier 2 got a 10.
Oh, yes, that's what we liked. It was phenomenal. Even with the long clown cafe thing, it's fine. I mean, I don't even mind that it's long. I love that movie. It's my favorite of the three that are out. Okay. Listen, I gave Terrifier 2 a 9. Nico gave it a 4. Oh, no! But, you know what? I live for the 10s, so I'm all about it. Right! What we will do is, if you give me just a brief moment, because I need to sort of calibrate what that means for the leaderboard. And there are some big changes.
So we will kick off with Hellraiser. So Hellraiser before you gave those ratings was in 46th place on the leaderboard and it now is moved all the way up. into 37th place in the leaderboard. That's awesome. Almost 10 whole positions in the leaderboard, which I think is really great to see. And fully deserving, because, you know, I always think that Hellraiser... I remember being on your old show, Candy, and saying, you know, I maybe slightly prefer the sequel.
but that's like yeah i love hellraiser too but i still love hellraiser yeah it's one of those instances i think where the sequel is you know ever just like a smidgen better than the original but hellraiser is such a classic and you know It's such perfect Clive Barker storytelling as well.
And, you know, I think fully deserves to be higher even than 37th. You know, I think it is. Oh, I agree with you. I think, you know, that is like a top 20 horror movie of all time sort of movie. But, you know, I'm really glad to see it make a little bit of progress up that leaderboard.
didn't get all the love from the critics that's really what dragged it down in the end you know Metacritic only gave it a 5.6 for example so you know not the greatest scores Scream you rated Scream there came in at 49th has moved up but only by a few places up to 46th I think for me you know I'm not a fan of the Scream franchise I appreciate the original for what it
dead for horror. It is an important horror movie and I think that's where most of my score came from. It's always sort of looked at as this sort of incredible meta horror and I really think when you look back at it I don't necessarily think it's as groundbreaking as people give it credit for. I love Matthew Lillard.
See, I love Matthew Lilly. That's my main thing. I have his autograph, but it's for my favorite movie. Adam Stein, SLC Punk. Which I like to do when we do non-horror at some point. But... But yeah, Matthew Lillard, anything he's in, I will watch. And, you know, it has been confirmed that Matthew Lillard will return to Screen 7. We don't know in what capacity yet whether Stumacher is alive or whether, like...
previous new screen movies, he's going to come in some sort of flashback vision form. I think if... I think the only thing that would save the movie, because there's a lot of controversy around Scream 7, the only thing that might save that movie is if he's alive, but, you know, they're going to have to do some pretty creative storytelling to get their way around that one. But, you know, like that's not impossible um okay uh an american werewolf in london
No, no, that's not what... Did I ask for your score on that? I did ask for your score on that, didn't I? Yes. That came in at 53rd place, I think that was, and has moved up a few places up into 50th. so it's broken into the top 50 you'll be very pleased to know that all of this means Suspiria goes one place higher and is now in 49th place right Um, so yeah, American World of Finland are breaking into that top 50. Uh, I, I kinda like, I'm a bit hit or miss about this movie. I enjoy this movie.
I think the movie gets a little bit more credit than it deserves. I'm not a big fan of werewolf movies kind of full stop. I don't think they're particularly particularly well done i think this is the best of them like i absolutely would say i would say like my two favorite werewolf movies are werewolf in london and dog soldiers those are my absolute two favorites um so yeah um maybe i would like to see like
a little higher on the leaderboards, but, you know, maybe not too much for me. The other two movies I asked you for... gremlins came in at 45th that's actually dropped now down to 52nd so you've dropped it out of the top 50 sorry um But then, you know, I'm fine with that. Terrifier 2, though, probably the biggest mover. It was in 67th place before your rating there and is now up to 55th.
so a big big move up there as well and is now actually uh one place below the babadook so the babadook's actually now in 54th after your ratings and is one place above terra fire too so there we have it The one aspect of all of this that will, I know for certain, make you really happy. So obviously we talked about gremlins being knocked out of the top 50. The movie that all of this and the Babadook coming in... That is knocked out of the top 100. Is Freddy versus Jason.
Nice. Freddy vs. Jason is now no longer a top 100 movie on Pod of the Damned. It's now sitting in some triple figures there in 101st place. And I did all that without knowing, but I'm so proud. You did all that? You've not actually given your rating for it as well. Will I just go ahead and put a big fat zero in there for you? Yes. Okay, so in actual fact... We'll just throw it out there now. Freddy vs. Jason is now in 111th place.
This is the times I live for. This is a good day. That also, actually, I think is technically the first zero. on this podcast. I don't think we've ever given anything a zero. Even the worst of movies. Well, that's a pretty fucking bad movie. You even gave Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey a 0.5.
Because they were really trying. You know, Nico gave Troll 2 a 0.5. I don't... You know, I still believe that movie is a so-bad-it's-good movie, so I gave it a bit of a higher score, but he doesn't get it. Troll 2 is fun. It's not good, but it's fun. So we've actually dropped Freddy vs. Jason by a solid 11 places today. Nice. It's still just above Jason X, though. Anyways, that is going to do it for this week's show. Candy, as always, thank you very very much for joining me.
thank you for having me absolutely no problem at all we of course will be back uh with our next episode our next recording nico will be back for it as well we're talking all about the netflix movie the netflix adaptation of death note and there's some strong opinions already floating around the socials for that but if you haven't done so already the threads are currently up across our social media platforms that's threads that's facebook instagram blue sky
Go to one of those. Let us know what you think of the Netflix adaptation of Death Note from 2017. And we will read as many as we can out on the show. I'm sure it'll be shared. Candy will be sharing it as well at some point as well. So go check it out. You can also follow us on YouTube and TikTok, which is also part of the damned. Candy, where can people find you? You can find me at CandyTheFinalGirl on Instagram, threads, blue sky.
awesome so yeah go to there go to the threads not just that we don't just ask for opinions on movie we ask for opinions on loads of stuff your interaction is such a big part of the show and we want to try and continue to integrate more and more into the show if you can so send us your questions send us your thoughts send us your opinions on anything that we talk about anything horror related anything not horror related we will talk about pretty much anything on this podcast
You know, all you have to do is listen to Nico interrupt a highbrow conversation and he usually will slip in some sort of... conversation about his testicles within about 35 seconds of being into an episode you know so you know we will talk about pretty much anything on this podcast so yeah go follow us on our social medias interact with us we want just like Uncle Sam we want you we want to hear from you and please go ahead and do that as well but
Thank you once again, Candy, for joining me. Thank you to everyone for downloading and listening to this podcast. Until next week on the Pod of the Damned, just remember, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.