So, I you guys know how much I love shoes. One of my gifts from writer here is a shoe candle. I just, I have loved shoes since I was a kid. I loved my mom's shoes. Then when I was old enough to start buying my own shoes, I've just I've loved heels and Espa drills and sneakers and wedges and.
What's an Esqua drill? I'm sorry I heard. I understood everything else, but what's an drill?
Is a type of poem. It's sixteen lines exactly. Doesn't it sound like it should be.
In a drill that drills and the screw the other direction. It's an Espa drill.
What what is an Espa drill? It's I'll show you Espa drill wedges. It's like, this is a classic Espa drill right there?
It went away, but yeah I saw it.
Yeah, that's an Espa drill.
Okay, okay.
Sometimes they sometimes they lace up around your ankle. Is that like shoe?
Yeah, it's a heeled sandal, kind of.
Like a heeled sandal. Yeah, they're definitely a flat well, I mean there's also these these are flat versions of it.
So it's a totally different thing.
This is so, this is what the definition is. A flat shoe with a cloth upper, a rope sole, and sometimes lacing that ties around the ankle, so that as long as it has the rope bottom and a cloth top, the shape of the shoe can be anything.
And then it sounds like what they would have worn on ships and stuff like rope bottom, cloth top.
I kind of like them, are there, male? Can you get men's esp drills?
Yeah? I'm going to get an s P A A U D R I L L EAT for men. Okay, are you looking them up?
Yeah, I'm gonna get some pirate shoes exact.
That's what they're called.
From now on. Those are.
Well, there are when you love shoes, there are just some shoes that like really give you the ick, you know, like like say, I mean crocs used to be one of them, for sure, before crocs became so mainstream and in your face that everybody wore them. But even crocs took me a really long time to get past. I was like, nope, never, you could never convince to wear crocs. But I used to feel that way about Birkenstocks.
Oh yeah, oh gross.
No, Well guess what. The pandemic changed many things for me. Also, becoming a mother changed many things for me. I bought my first pair of Crocs during the pandemic. And I bought my first pair of Birkenstocks when Adler was little and we were going on a vacation and I was going to be doing a ton of walking and I need support. And everyone's like, oh, once you break in your pair of Birkenstocks, they're the You can spend fourteen hours walking around a city in them. So I did.
I got my first pair of Birkenstocks that broke them in greatest, most comfortable shoe, never a shoe pain. If I'm in a pair of Birkenstocks, I can wear them for literally twelve hours going anywhere. I walked around Austria totally fine. Yesterday I put on a pair of shoes that are so icky. Do you know the shoes that have individual pockets for your toast?
Oh my god, the yes rocks.
Yes, I do.
Okay, So I went to the gym yesterday. As you know, very healthy lifestyle I've picked up over the last couple of months have changed my eating habits, have started working out, I've it has helped me, not at all. I've only gained weight. I don't know how to explain it, but I feel better. I do feel better, so I'm keeping up with it. Anyway. Went to the gym yesterday to do a met con class, which is a hit workout, a high intensity interval training workout. You use weights and
you do these ten exercises. You do them three you do them all ten of them. Then you start over and you do them again three times. You do each exercise for a minute. At my gym, the Poluva shoe people were there and they were like, for this class only, we are giving away free socks to anyone who would like to try the shoes, and you can just wear them for this class and then we'd love your honest feedback. Tell us what you think about them. And I was like, yeah,
you know what, I'm gonna try it. Why not do out there? Put on socks that have five daoles for each of my toes, and then I put toes in the shoes. They're freaking phenomenal.
Not don't be that guy, bro.
I will never ever wear them out to like run an errand, but I am thinking about buying some for weightlifting. I can't even believe I'm saying it. I got pictures. Look, I need to show you guys. First of all, the bottoms of them are so cute, like I have little panda feet.
So just your Wiki feet page is about to get an update.
And the bottom of these shoes, okay, and then look look, look look, and they feel cool. They feel great. So here's what I like about it.
I'm so worried about each one of my toes. I don't know, just stuff.
Here's what's great. And this is what they tried to tell me. And at first I was like, I don't understand what you're talking about. With normal shoes and the way our feet are in them and as thick as they are, and with the not having individual toe brackets, you don't actually like your toes don't really grip the ground. All of your toes don't really grip the ground. They're just kind of like in your shoes. With these shoes. Because all of my toes were housed in their own
little home. When I would have to do something balancing, so say I had heavy weights in my hands and I was doing like a lunge that then where I lifted my back foot and so I'm balancing on my front foot. All of a sudden, all of my toes were gripping the ground, kind of the way they do when you're barefoot, like if you were doing yoga or pilates and you're able to feel yourself and you can like look down at your foot and realize, like, oh, I need to put I have all my weight in
my pinky toe. I need to put more weight in the ball on my foot. You can feel all of that with these shoes on. They were really grippy, so I was still able to run around on the floor. They're hideous. They're the ugliest shoes I've ever seen in my entire life, and I could never be seen in them. But I am thinking about buying a pair.
Would they in any way shape or form, uh like get in.
Like screw up your man bun if you're wearing them. I'm curious, would they mess Would they mess with that?
They would screw They'd screw up your macho ltte, your ice.
I'm wondering about that, your cargo shorts and your man but.
Your petuli is a little less.
Potent, Okay, I'm just I'm just checking.
Yeah, because you.
Can still do the devil sticks though, right, that's that's.
That's great, you can still do that. I love that anyway.
I did think you guys would not would just not expect me to be an ugly shoe lady.
No, we call those douche shoes at our house.
I love that douche.
Yeah, we do.
Oh, I love it so much, the douche, the douche shoes, the douche shoe.
So that's that's kind of what we call those. But hey, I think you talk to me album no, to each their own.
I mean, that's no, it makes sense because if you if you then have the same conversation, but around hands, you're talking about the difference between wearing a pair of gloves and which makes it, which does make a big difference.
But yeah, but no, but I just you know, it is what it.
Is, and I do think because then I so I left and I was like, I'm going to look these shoes up. I'm going to see how much they are. And I was looking at them and I did. Then first of all, they're so so hideous on the website. I was like, I just wore them and they didn't look that hideous in person. On the website, I'm like,
they this is it couldn't possibly be this ugly. And and I did stop myself from buying a pair because I thought, am I ever going to be able to get out of my own head when I'm wearing these or the whole time? Am I going to be like that person over there staring at my ugly feet? Shooes?
Yeah, I don't be able to do. If you're going to do it, you have to just jump in with No.
You guys have single to.
Talk you out of it.
For weight lifting, Yeah no, No, it's good.
I like you shouldn't define you or be stereotypical. I do put on your broken stocks, get into your super and go and buy the douche shoes.
I think they'll be great. I don't see the problem. What's no, I'm good. I'm good even with the cute little bottom pand of feet. I'm not gonna not gonna do it now.
I would not judge you for shaming me. I know I would not.
I would not every time you put them on. He would unabashedly shame you the whole time.
I'm just worried about the comfort. I just whenever I see like the idea of wrapping every one of my toes, like exactly, that's what I mean. You don't, yeah, you know, it seems like it wouldn't fit. Like it's just like my toes would be too fat for one of them.
I just need it is. It is weird because my big toe was like a little too long for that size of shoe, but my pinky toe was nowhere near the end of it. So like if I went up a different size, my would have my big toe would have more room, but my pinky it could be cost a mold one for you, they told me when I said that, They said, but part of the reason your pinky toe doesn't take up enough room is because it's so used to being squished in your regular shoes.
So they're pinky suffocating your petto.
My pinky toe has shrunk itself in order to fit into the fabric of this society.
And if I could, in order to appeal to people like you who call her douche shoes, if she likes the wrong shoes.
My pinky could have its own identity.
You do you it doesn't? You go out there and you bet the bottom shoes bag you can.
That's how I look at it. Be in a douchebag. It's it's it's wearing what you want. Wear that hair bun.
Of course, wear that hair bun.
Neglect your feet. If you guys want your pinky toes to continue to shrink themselves to fit into society.
I am I'm totally are you? Are you well? Because you know I don't have beach shoes. I hate anything that actually shows my feet. This is perfect. These are beachy shoes that I can wear. They're like sandals, but I don't have to Actually, you know, one has to look at my hobby feet.
It's perfect. Will you update us when you get your male espadral? Yeah, okay, thank you. Welcome to Pod meets World.
I'm Daniel Fishl, I'm right or Strong, and I'm Will Fordell.
If we've said it once, we've said it a million times. For the most part, we were pretty self absorbed as kids on the set of Boy Meets World. The sheer number of adult actors Will could have talked to about their time on MASH or the stories Bill could have told us about the making of the graduate, or the moments I could have at least remembered from the run
of the show. They all seem like missed opportunities that now with a rewatch podcast three decades later, we can right those wrongs and not only shine a spotlight on some of these incredible talents that joined us on set, but we can learn more about them, even if a little late. And this week we get to right our wrongs once again. With a career spanning over fifty years, our guest this week has two hundred and eighty one
acting credits to his name. You may have seen him steal scenes on the genius HBO show Deadwood, or appear in movies like Men in Black three and the adrenaline laced cult hit Crank, or on TV where he kicked off his career with appearances on shows like Different Strokes,
Heart to Heart, Saint Elsewhere, and Webster. He's the absolute definition of a working actor, still acting and making a killing as one of the most prolific voice actors working today, with classics like Narudo, Gi Joe, Samurai Jack, Teen Titans, and Avatar The Last Airbender. On a long, long resume.
He's awesome, He's awesome.
Yeah, Yeah, Avatar the Last Mayorbender is one of those classes I've never watched.
Everyone just in Gi Joe.
I mean, come on, yeah, But for some reason, and we don't know why, he's agreed to join us this week to talk about the one time he played a professor at Penbrook University dealing with a group of bright eyed freshmen on our Meager family sitcom for season six's Ain't College Great? This week we're talking to one of the most impressive guest stars we have ever had. Please welcome keone Young.
Hello.
Thank you so much for joining us. We are honored that you would share some of your time with us to talk about your very prolific career. Just trying to get your first credit on IMDb takes several minutes. Yes, so you were raised in Hawaii. Both of your parents had immigrated to the United States. Your father Chinese.
No, actually they didn't immigrant. They were born in Hawaii, Okaya.
Tell us about your upbringing.
I'm a third generation from My grandfather was from China. My grandmother and grand father on my mother's side was from Japan. But my parents were born in Honolulu, hoois Okay.
And so what was their reaction when you decided to pursue a career in the entertainment industry.
Well, I have to tell you that. You know, for Asians who emigrated to this country, they came as agricultural people. They came as peasants. My grandparents worked in the fields you know of in the sugarcane and pineapple fields, and that's where Hawaii became very commercially, very viable for the United States because they provided a lot of sugar for the country. So my grandparents were indentured workers to plantations. So my grandfather and grandmother wanted their my grandparents wanted
their kids to be educated. So my my parents were were the first to go to school, finish high school and from from there where they fed kind of like this new workforce during the fifties through the Eisenhower years, the post war years. Their dream was for their kids to become doctors, lawyers, or even a dentist. Yeah, that was the lowest acceptable. Let you do that. That was acceptable. And you know, I just I was really a bad student, and you know, having kids myself, I realized that school.
You know, my son told me I want to quit school at third grade and I said why and he said, well, school kills my creativity. And I couldn't argue that with him, because they did that for me, because I come from school in the sixties where everything was you know, you by wrote, there's no creativity at all. You know, you had to memorize your multiplication tables. You had to memorize all your science for me, you know, and I just I couldn't. My brain didn't function that way. And so
I was a real bad student. So I was considered what we call in Japanese yogo day, which means dirty, you know, the filthy part of life, A person who is scum actually so and I mean scum, I mean the residue of the bottom side of society. And I found and because I was regarded as such, you know, my my friends, my friend's parents would say, oh, don't, don't play with him, don't, don't, you know, because he's he's no good. So I found a family in the theater.
I wanted to work in theater. I wanted to actually I want to build sets. I wanted to design lights. I hung lights. I was I was a kid, I was like fourteen fifteen. I wasn't afraid to go up into the to the fly they call it, fly and hang lights. And I was mentored by some good technical people, you know, and as I was in. I was in the Humblu Community Theater. There is a long story. I hope you have the time we do so. In the Hullelo Community Community Theater, I'd be from up in the flies.
I'd be watching actors and I thought I'd be thinking, they're not that good.
I don't like what they're doing.
Now It's not I didn't like. I just thought, well, I don't believe them, you know. Yeah, and I and of course a lot of the actors during that time, they didn't want to do small parts, you know. So directors would come up to me and go, hey, kid, we need a waiter in the scene to come in and take an order. Would you do it? So while moving the sets and you know, doing the lights, I'd go, I'd say okay, and I'd do it one line. And I did a lot of great plays. I was in
the Death of a Salesman. I played the waiter and Death of a Salesman. Right, come in and I say, can I take your order, sir? One a cup of coabi? Thank you. But but what forced me then was I'd be able to watch a play like Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman and and gain benefits from it. Realize, you know, school was important, but this is life drama and this, you know. I watched, you know, and then I would meet young people from New York who would say, hey,
read Tennessee Williams read, Edward Alby read Chekhov. And I would go up into the They had this little library in the theater and i'd sit there and i'd work as a janitor there too, just to you know, pay for classes and whatever. And I'd read all these wonderful plays. I read out Edward Alby the Zoo Story, and I was like, wow, this is fantastic. So I got inspired
to the theater. And also, if you know musicals, you know there's a lot of chorus parts where people would would sing and dance, and I was oftentimes they actors didn't want to be in these chorus parts, so they'd throw me in there because I had a bass voice. And it was really funny because at fourteen and fifteen, there was a young woman who was a year older than me, who was in sort of the same position, who kind of like befriended me and who showed me
how kind theater people were to me. They didn't judge me if I didn't have the credentials like being a doctor, a lawyer of four point oh you know, yeah, student, and she we kind of like I did My Fair Lady with her, and it was really funny because you know, I spoke to local patois. But then I had to learn how to relearn how to speak standard stage speech, and you know, so I'm getting married in the morning, I'd have to learn cognitia yes, and did how to
succeed in business without really trying. And she became she was like, you know, like just a not a really good We had these good looking women stars in there, you know, and they would always kind of like, oh, treat her like very patronizing to her. But she was a very beautiful person and very beautiful voice. So at eighteen, and I was seventeen, she said, I'm going to New York study become an actress, which kind of inspired me. I didn't have enough money to go to New York,
so I had enough money to go to California. Yeah, I came to California. I had four hundred dollars in my pocket. And that lady was Bet Middler, by the way, Oh yeah, she became Bet Middler. So I said, Wow, that's nice. You know that it could happen to someone who I grew up with, that's amazing. And so that's the story. I came to LA. I had four hundred dollars in my pocket, two pairs of pants, two pairs of shirts, I mean a pair of shirts. And so.
Where did you live? Did you have a roommate? Where? How did you find a place to stay?
Well, I applied my mother, being the Asian mother, applied to several colleges, which all rejected me because my GPA. But Pasadena Playoffs took me amazing. It was a college of theater arts back in the sixties. It was very famous at that time. Gene Hackman went there, Dustin Hoffman went there. So they accepted me. I worked during the summer to pay for the fee, and I didn't know they needed the money really bade so they took a
lot of people. Yeah, and I went to people like in my class were Stally Struthers from you know father that three company.
Oh, No, Sally from from from all in the family.
All in the family. Yeah. And I don't know if you know Ben Murphy, he was in Alias Smith and Jones. He was so anyway, So I studied there for two years and I was able to survive it and graduate, and I found out, oh, this is an interesting thing I was looking. I was. I worked during its school in the library, and I came across past students at East at Pastina playoffs, and I'd see names like Dustin Hoffman,
Gene Hackman went there, and it inspired me. And then I saw this picture of this Asian guy because I thought I was the first Asian guy that went to Pasadena Playhouse, but there was another guy there and his name was Maco, and I found out he was nominated for Academy Award for San Pebbles. Consequently, he was nominated for a Tony even Somendheims Pacific Overtures, And so I said, wow,
that's inspirational. So I've been having all these as a failure that I was as a person, you know, according to my status in life, I was fortunate to have all these experiences and these moments of like inspiration. So I said, wow, he got nominated for an Academy Award with Steve McQueen and Candy Bergen, and so I, you know, I was motivated. And then I came to La and I met him. I found him and he had founded a theater called the East West Players, and I had
been a member there. And his philosophy was like, actors have to learn everything, not just because acting is like is not a defined science, you know, where one method is a correct answer to any every situation. He would say, actors have to learn the sciences that surround acting, which is dance, music. So he sent me to New York in seventy six, and he told me go to New York and study because LA is full of Hollywood actors. He said, they don't know nothing. So I went to
New York. I studied, you know, method Gratowski. I studied ballet. I went to opera. I studied modern dance. You know, everything I studied, I learned through music theory. I learned to play an instrument. I learned about classical music, Western and Asian. I went to Berlitz. I studied languages. So he made he forced me to study, and he was He went to do Pacific overtures for some time at that time in seventy six, and he kind of funded me. You know, yeah, I mean I had to borrow two
thousand from my screen actors. Guild Credit Union as well in order to live. So I have to thank the Credit Union for funding my education at that time. So I was on there on my own. I lived at the YMCA, and I've been studying ever since. Studying is just part of being an actor. I study today, I have classes today, I study.
It is so incredible and Maco is I mean, forget being hugely important to me for my favorite show of all time, mash where he must have played eight or nine different characters, but Conan, his role in Conan the Barbarian and ConA the Destroyer, like helped to define me as a kid.
They were sicking.
Well, yeah, because I mean I'm a fantasy nerd. And he was one of the first quote unquote wizards I ever saw, because he played a sorcerer and a wizard in Conan. And I think I was eight or nine when it came out and it was just awe inspiring.
So yeah, he was alleged.
Can I tell you a little funny story about Conan, please please, Well what had happened was Arnold had hired One of his requirements was that the director had to hire all his buddies so Arnold could train with them. While he was there in Spain, and one director hired them to play all these warriors and muscle. Uh, these these bad guys. Well, one thing that they did was they developed every muscle in their body except one muscle,
and that was the voice musk, the throat muscle. So they all came talking like this.
The way it was John Millis, John Milias.
So I had a meeting with John, you know, and John said I can't have this because they were all time, I will kill you. And John was this kind of like Asiano file who loved Kurosawa, you know, I don't know if you know. He did the Seventh Summarise and me fooney and all that. So John said, I'm going to play this movie the scene, this battle scene, and this is how I want the battle scene to sound. Well, Maco had introduced me to John and said, John, hire this kid. And so I said, John, you don't have
to run. I used to watch that on my grandmother's lap. So I know the movie backwards and forwards. I know the sound that you want. So I recreated all these Samurai voices, you know, for John. So I replaced all these muscle men and made men out of them cool, and that was in Conan Barbarian and that kind of like was a trajectory for me and my If you've
seen my IMDb, I've done a lot of voice work. Yeah, that was a trajectory for me to start working in voice because I said, Wow, I don't have to I can wear my pajamas exactly, get up and walk to I don't don't have to worry about, you know, having these two hour early calls before I hit the set.
With the makeup makeup man.
So yeah, so that's my con end story.
Let's jump into your TV career a little bit. You began your career on shows like Room two twenty two and Kojak and movies like Private Benjamin. But I think most of our audience may have first seen you on different strokes, So I wanted to talk to you about that experience and but also the kinds of roles you were auditioning for as an Asian American.
Well, let me just say this to you quite frankly, that Asian Americans are not seen as Americans. Of my roles has been as a foreigner, right, so, which was really difficult for for many of us because when we were growing up our parents said, no, you're American, don't speak our language. So you know, it was a kind of like a contradiction. Here I was in Hollywood, and I realized that shortly. I said, Wow, they only see me as a foreigner. But I speak English, and I
can speak English better than a lot of English. So so different strokes. So I had to learn to adjust. I had to learn to learn other people's cultures, which I was fortunate because I was in Hawaiian and it was multicultural. You know. We grew up with Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, Vietnamese, Portuguese and so on, so I kind of learned the culture.
So different strokes was interesting. You know. At night I would be doing Ibsen and Tennessee Williams, like I said, Albi, and then in the day I would be doing stuff like different strokes and Golden Girls and stuff like that, and I was kind of weighing what is most important to me, you know. I was doing regional theater. I went to Milwaukee, I went to New Hampshire. I was traveling around the country working for peanuts. And then I would do these TV shows and make incredible amounts of money,
and I just could not understand it, the contributions. So what I found out though, was that when people were working in Hollywood, and particularly in TV, and particularly in three camera comedy, people were very anxious about their longevity
and their life. Yeah, people always worried and scared, particularly the adults, whether they were going to get canceled, what their ratings were, where they were going to live, where their character was going to die, whether they were whether the writer, producer, runner of the show was happy with them, you know, because if they weren't, they might be written out of the show, or they not enough dialogue. So I said, well, it's good. I'm I can't you know, I'm I'm just a guest there, and I'll be a
guest everywhere I go. I'll never be a part of this infrastructure, you know, I'll never be part of that society. Number One, they wouldn't allow us in unlike today you might see more of us because we fought for that. But I said, you know, I cannot rely on these people. I just have to do my own thing. So I was never worried about being fired, or being a band or being how would you say an outcast? I mean,
I just did my thing. And I guess there was some smart enough people to realize, Yeah, that guy knows m he's always on time, he always knows his lines, he always hits his mart get them, yeah, you know, And I realized that I would spend more time being proficient and efficient as opposed to trying to get somebody to love me.
Right.
So, I don't know, I really I really felt a contradiction. You know. I was happy doing this show, but as I watched the kids around me, I was kind of sad at the same time, if you know what I mean. And it was very sad because I felt no one's really educating the young people about the potential of their potential, you know. And consequently what happened was proved to be true.
I loved working with the old timers. Conrad Bain was a wonderful gentleman who came from theater and he could understand me, and so we kind of bonded there and it was it was enjoyable. I'll say one other thing, like like Golden Girls. Golden Girls, everybody would warn me about be Arthur. Yeah, they say, oh, you got to watch out for her. She suffers the fools. Well, she
doesn't but she does appreciate actors who are serious. And when I did the scene with her, it was it was delightful because she was she was good.
Oh yeah, one of the best ever on television.
I think, so. I mean she was. She was very good, very professional, and she was a fellow I don't want to say the word artists. I never refer to myself as one a fellow artisan, you know, very craft. She was respected the craft, and that's what I really loved about her.
Well, you would go on to appear on literal classic TV shows like Taxi, The Jefferson's, Cheers, and Saint Elsewhere, alongside our pwell William Daniels. Yeah, did you ever feel like, you know, that sense you had as a kid that you weren't going to amount to much because you weren't the traditional good student. Did you ever feel like you were making it moving here from Hawaii and booking so much incredible work?
No? No, wow, Because you know, my mother's friends, their sons were doctors and lawyers and very very wealthy, very established, and my mom was very impressed because they grew up in the Eisenhower days, they grew up the Rockefeller days, they grew up in the how to influence people, you know, with your magnanimity. They would love Donald Trump today because he was wealthy, and that would be the criteria. I'm me, I'm presuming, yeah, But I tell you one time I
did I did. I did a movie The Week with Karen Allen and it was about the Challenger Shuttle. You remember the shuttle that carsonal So I played one of the astronauts, Elison on a Zuka who was on the flight at that time. And I went home and in Hawaii and finally my mom was kind of proud of me. And then but then she would go around to her friends going like, well, you know where he got his talent from?
So taking credit, no praise, but taking credit.
Wow, well you know because I was, you know, when high school, I was, you.
Know, in a play in a play.
Wow, So I really you know, it was it was kind of funny. But when my dad asked me how much money I made, and I made a lot of money, as you can imagine, he just he would not believe me because what I made in a week he made in a year. So they all kind of like in the final decades kind of like was proud, but they were proud because I was part of the family.
You know, I have to ask about the about the the the movie of the week was Karen Allen, Krista mccaulloff.
Yeah, okay, and Barry Bostwick was in it, you know, man, Peter Boy was in it. It was it was a fun project. Yeah. Wow.
Let's get into your time on Boy Meets World. Do you remember the audition for the role of Professor?
Yeah?
Yeah, And what was that like?
It was like any other job. You know, I've going on auditions for all kinds of stuff. So if if you know the role, I mean it was just gibberish, right, and so I just didn't get gibberish.
We talked about it when we recapped the episode, because you say it was just gibberish, as if doing gibberish is actually easy. It is not. We all like practiced on the day we recapture episode.
And none of us could do it.
None of us could even come close.
It's one of those things that conceptually, like even if you wrote it, you'd be like, oh, that'll be funny, but to actually deliver it and sell it is really difficult.
Well, you know, sound is as important as words. You know. That's what I was taught from my mentor Macco. He says, sound tells you the truth, and just you go back on this tape and listen to yourselves. How much sound you just said? Hmm, And it has subtext to it.
So sound is very important. When we're singing opera, we're singing Italian and like, I don't know what it means, right, you know, when I'm singing German, I'm singing Ontie music and Schubert's under music to hold the kunsin vivel gauen Stunden. I don't know what the actual meaning is. I've since learned, but while I'm singing it, I'm kind of like thinking of the German you know, at that time, and you know the music of Bach and and sound is really important.
So sound was not a problem with me because I grew up in a country or a state that sound. You know. I would hear the Filipinos speaking and the Koreans speaking, and their sounds were, for example, like Chinese would in a moment of expression, they would say ah yeah, uh, Koreans would uh. Koreans would say aigh. Philippines with withoud Filipino you would say, oh no, and in Japanese you would say, ah yah. They are all sounds, and there's sounds that relate to what you feel, deep feelings that
you feel. So sound was not difficult for me. What was difficult was, you know, when you do three camera, I'm really talking a lot. I don't know why, because maybe because.
That's wanted to talk to you.
Usually I don't spend that much time explaining. But with other actors, I think you guys could understand it, really sure. But when you when you're working in three camera comedy and you know, I work with guys like Bud Yorkin and Norman Lear and those guys, and it was brutal, bruialty No, but it was brutal because Bud would come down, you know, after you have a run through and he'd watched run through, he'd come down with a martini with
his guys and they would sit there and criticize. And you know, these guys were not they were not theater people. They didn't you know, they were just they wanted the laugh, they wanted the moment of response. They wanted results, well, results in terms of the scene, in terms of acting.
They wanted results and Wow, I was not that. I was the type of actor where I bet, like you know, we loved Brando, you know, like searching and wondering and you know that was our kind of like hero when when I was a kid, and and James Dean and we try to find the moment of the scene, and they weren't interested in the moment of the scene. They wanted to laugh, you know. It was rhythm.
Yeah.
So I when you say the audition I just I mean the gibberish part wasn't the problem of it was. It was. It was the results and what the showrunner wanted.
So when so you get the job, you come, you come. You're on set with us during that week. What do you remember that week about the rehearsal process taping, because, like you mentioned, we had a showrunner that would come down after, you know, run through and give very long notes. What was your experience that week.
Well, for the young people, I really liked them. They were very respectful to me, you know, and I liked all the young people.
That would have been us.
Yeah, I mean they were very supportive and friendly to me. They would bring up shows movies that they had seen me and you know, yeah, and we talked. The older people were always like nervous, particularly with the showrunner, you know, like is he upset? Is he mad? Did he think I was funny? And I was going, well, that's not
a way to live a life for me anyway. And so I was like on my tiptoes, you know, like trying to like be careful, like just be careful that I would make it through the week at my check and then go on to do other things. I don't know if you talk to the woman that kind of like talk to me about this show, And I said, it was not a really great experience for me. So I don't know why they want to talk to me.
We want to hear your experience good, bad, We want to hear it all.
Well, like I said, the showrunner was you know, pretty alpha, pretty dominating.
Yeah.
And I understood the necessity of it. I understood the importance of that. I mean I had worked in many many shows where like I said, I worked for Dorm Bud yorkin you know, and Bud was doing the Red Fox show and read banned him from the set and read and he said, but Red, I owned the show, and read, I don't care. I'm not coming to the
set if you're there. And ABC had called up Bud York and had said, don't go down to the set, So, you know, you have that kind of conflict and contradiction, and I just I was like, not intimidated, but I didn't want to be around that kind of you know, and every three camera comedy I had seen it, you know, yeah, and where the showrunner is the boss and there's no way to have a conversation about it. You know, you do what you're told or you're done. So my job
was just doing what I was told. That was it.
Yep, get in, do it like this and leave, take your shot, and then go do something that actually fills your soul.
Well yeah, but I enjoyed the people on the show. There was one writer who can't remember his name, but he was very kind, and like I said, the young people were very fun to be with.
Yeah. Yeah, well good, I'm glad. I'm glad at least we were fun to be around.
Yeah, I mean, I'm glad I was done with it.
Yeah, yeah, you got to leave. Did you ever watch the shows when they aired? Did you see your boy Meets were all episode when it aired on TV?
Eventually, I only watched it recently, really told me to watch it.
Yeah, what did you? What were your thoughts on it?
Now?
What were your thoughts watching it?
I was terrible? You know how you think that we as actors, you know, you always look at yourself. I could have done that. I could. Of course, I should have did this. I should have done it. You know, I could have been better, which has always been my mantra. You know, I can be better. I should be better. You know. So such an actor thing.
It's such an actor thing too, your Monday morning quarterback, your own performance all the time. And oh if I could just have given it a shot, if I could do it one more time, I would have done this. But the truth of the matter is, then if you watched it a third time, you'd want to change the.
Thing you just did again.
It would it would never be.
Perfect, no matter what you think.
Yeah, yeah, but.
We absolutely loved you in it.
Yeah, thank you.
Hysterical so funny, absolutely nailed it, laugh out loud funny, I mean, truly sparked an entire discussion for us about how much harder what you are doing, how much harder it is than it looks it looks like? How I mean you make it look seamless and effortless, and then all of us, with effort, could not come close to it. So truly, we also wanted to talk Deadwood with you, where you played mister wu. This was a magical show created by David Milch that even with all the acclaim
it did get deserved even more. Do you consider this maybe the best thing you've ever done? And if not, what do you think is the best thing you've ever done?
Well? Yes, I was very fortunate to meet David Milch. You know, oftentimes, like I said, people see us as foreigners. Well we are in a sense, at least my grandparents were, and I've always wanted the opportunity to show them, not to glorify them, but to show them that they had desires and passions too, And David Milt was open to that. It's kind of character that I've I am and I've always wanted to develop and he did too. So and he did that with every character. You know, he did
that with every character. Find out get the essence of what that character represented, what his dreams were, what his failures were, and his inner dialogue, what we really thought about the situation. It was just grand You know, just to be on the set to work with as great actors. I don't know about you, but you know, like that old joke about when you look at a script you go to my line, my line both, well, we would like I would come down to the set just to
watch people act. Wow, yeah, and just watch scene. Billy sorry, I can't think of his name. William Anderson, Billy Anderson. He was in that Bob Newhart show. He was one of the brothers. He played. Yeah. Uh, he played the mayor of Deadwood, and he is such a great actor. I would just go down to the set just to
watch him act. Uh. And it was just wonderful. It was like being in school, you know, like being like an actors studio where you go and watch somebody scene and you'd learn from that, and Milts would come down and explain to you what the scene was about and how stupid you were, and you, you don't know. The great feeling it is when somebody as smart as David Milt comes up to you and go, that was stupid, you know, And he goes, you know what I'm trying to say, right, you know what I mean? Right? And
I go, yeah, I know what you mean. David, and then we would go back and work it out. And David was the kind of guy. He was great. I mean, he feared nobody. You know, he'd go, we'd be on season episode three and he go, he'd watch episode three the scene and go, you know that scene in episode one, I want to rewrite it. He took the producers and he go, I think that I could make that scene better. And they go, David, we have to rehire all those actors, build a set, and he goes, I don't care to
do it because it will make me better. And I think that's why HBO kind of like canceled it, because it was it was an expensive show because of how David wanted to do this show, and that's when TV can be. It's yeah, I think, I think, I think, you know, but.
I mean watching it was it was. I remember the first time, the first couple episodes, it hit me.
I was like, oh, this is this is how Shakespeare would do a Western.
I mean it was it was that level.
It was literally Shakespearean with the characters and there, I mean there. It was amazing it what it did for television, but also for the Western, where it was just such on a different level all the way around.
It was truly just one of the most magical things that I think has ever been on television.
And I know people would think that's that's a bold statement, but I truly think it's deserving of that statement. It is was magical. It really was lightning in a bottle. It was all the ridiculous platitudes you hear about something wonderful that was fleeting was Deadwood.
It was incredible.
Well, let me ask you this question, then, do you think that every Western since Deadwood on TV? Successful successful Western has been influenced by Deadwood?
Oh?
Absolutely, absolutely? Do you think not? I do. I read an article recently that said every Western that has followed dead Deadwood has something to be thankful for from.
In some way Deadwood.
Yeah, that's amazing.
The struggle that we had, the challenge that we had as actors was great because where in TV does a challenge you to to surpass your present state and become something greater. Where where in TV does that? You know? And I find that that has carried me in my career.
I just recently did a a series with Jessica Bielle in New York and it was one of the first times I felt as an actor that I was complete, that I had my own identity, that my identity was not fined for you by the writer or the director, or the or the producer, but that I had felt that I had my own identity as the character, and
I had established it. And I guess that's what Deadwood has allowed me to do, was to come onto every project to be able to say, Okay, let me give a dimension to this that is not just two dimensional or four dimensional. Let me be more abstract, let me let me uncover the character, and consequently, wow, that seems to work for me. Which what I learned from Deadwood that you're much more than the printed page is two dimensional? Right?
You read it on the page, You read on the page eight times, and you think, oh, what can make this work? Why? Right? Right? And you find it? And so that pushed by David Mills, is find the character. Don't be stupid, don't take the least common denominator, take the highest common denominate, yes on the other extra spectrum and challenge you as an actor. And I guess that's what Didwood did. And I was very fortunate. I'm so fortunate that I was to meet somebody like David Milch.
I won't talk about all the video games that you have worked on because those companies have to pay your union first. But in animated product Jax, you voiced Naruto Avatar, The Last Airbender, High High, Puffy on the Yumi Batman, and now Gremlin's The Secrets of Maguai. All of these projects have had huge spikes in popularity over the past few years. Are you surprised by the mainstreaming of anime and animated shows?
No, let me tell you what I'm surprised about. That is young people's devotion to it. Yeah, and I wish it wasn't so much so, because they're obviously looking for an outlet that relieves them from anxiety and pressures. And I go to all these I'm invited to a lot of comic cons Yeah, and I see young people just uh, throwing themselves into that kind of like a cult of anime, understanding what that anime means. In Japan, it's the same thing,
you know, you know in Japan. You know, Japan is a very controlled society in terms of behavior and in terms of how you relate to each other, in terms of not only personal relationship, but in class relationship. There's forms of language that you must speak if you're talking to someone older than you, superior to you. And there's a way to talk to somebody who's beneath you. In Japanese, you know, to cuss somebody out, there's no real cuss words. Is the word you and the different forms of you.
So I can have a formal way of saying you, or I can have an informal way, and the way you use it to somebody determines your really, So what I'm trying to say is Japan has very control society and they let their emotions out by watching all this man manga and you know, you say, wow, they have so much violence in their things. Well yeah, but that's the one way what they use in order not to commit violence. Yeah, but in America, kids are really like
put so much equity in these things. And it doesn't bother me, but I just wish I could sit down with them and say, oh, hey, you know why you're doing this right? Yeah, you know, you know why. And Star Wars has been becoming a cult as well, you know, and it's fine, you should love these things, but you should love them in terms of how that relates to your life, that what you want to do with your life and what you want how you want to be
progressive to progress. So when you say, am I surprised, No, I'm not surprised because we live in a cult kind of world right now. Well, we're not thinking for ourselves, you know, we're not looking at factual evidence and heroes. Heroes are not going to save our day for us ourselves. And so it really bothers me that about this kind of implosion of anime and manga. And you know, I mean,
it's it's great. We have cartoons. There's some really great you know, like I don't know if you know the history of like comics like Will Eisner who was uh, who was a great great UH novelist, comic book novelist. He wrote about the strugg of the Jews in the Lower East Side during the Depression and uh, And that's what I find kind of missing sometimes.
Wow. Well, we talked we talked a little bit about this with Stephen Park when he was on the podcast. But obviously you have witnessed a total evolution of opportunities for Asian actors in Hollywood. What are your feelings when you see actors like Stephen Youn or Henry Golding starring in massive movies without any signifying mark about their race.
It's good, it's good. But you know in plays I've done Gibson, I've done Chekhov, you know, I've done a lot of and I think I laid that found is my generation that kind of laid the foundation for them thinking where they could go.
Yes, sure, for sure.
You know the generation before me, which was the first generation that was with like people like Richard lou Kee Luke, that generation. I'm the second generation. They were kind of like immigrants and kind of fulfilling the role of being the Asian you know, the Fu Manchu or the Asian stereotype for what America needed in terms of like a growing as a as a first world They needed to
picture the enemy properly for people, you know. And so we came up and said, hey, you know, we're Americans too, So we wanted so and theater was our outlet because like I said, I think I said of the characters I played in Foreigners, and to see that change now is very is very good. It's what we've worked for as a community of Asian American performers in this country. Don't forget that we got reparations for when Japanese Americans were interned during the war. We got reparations from the
an apology from Ronald Reagan. So that l Mark was very important for us because it showed, hey, we are humans too, which consequently transferring itself to a lot of writers, novelists. You know who wrote Crazy Rich Asians and who wrote all these books and Maxine Hank Kingston and Amy Tanned they wrote all these novels and then movies were made
from them, which is really good. But I just have one question, one point of view that you might not agree with me, and I'm sure it will offend a lot of people that Asian men are still shown uh yeh in a non positive light. It could be shown in a more positive light. And you mentioned these guys like Steve and you and Harry Golden, which is good? Which is which is which? Which is I really admire.
But we're still shown as subhumans. We're really shown. We're still shown as effeminate, submissive, passive, and in my community, we're not. We're not and that's what's not being shown. And so our culture has to be brought out into the open so people can see yeah, you know, and and then some people do some people do, you know, some people do. Uh. I remember when I was young, people would say to me, you guys eat raw fish. Now everybody eats raw yeah, right exactly, But it's what
kind of raw fish? Now? That's important?
Right right?
Yeah, you know, it's not just some fancy exotic kind of thing. But it's the you know, it's it's the real versus the fake. And that is always our struggle as human beings on this earth is always what is real? What is fake?
Yeah?
And I subscribe that Asian American men have a place in this, in our story of America.
You know, yes, I really appreciate you sharing your POV. I know you started it by saying there are going to be some people who may disagree or who find it offensive, but you know, truly being willing to speak out and say your experience. You have a POV that certainly the three other people on this zoom with you don't have. We can't we can't speak from your POV.
And so for you being willing to say it and to share your honesty with us, Like you said, your generation is the generation that helped propel and make these changes, but there are still more strides that need to be taken and that that need to happen. And so thank you for sharing that thought with us and your perspective with us.
Yeah, I can tell you one thing. Uh you look at what the women's movement has done. Mhmm. You can get kicked off for show. Now if you sexually harass somebody, right, you can get your career can be destroyed if you if you engage in those activities. Well, in my time, those activities were common.
Yeah, it was.
You had to expect it if you wanted to be an actress, if you wanted to be successful, not only an actress, as actress too, you have to succumb to it. You'd have to accept this.
Yeah, it was just part of the job.
Yeah, part of the gig. Right, So now that's changed. But can you stop with somebody from harassing you racially?
Hm hmmm No, yeah, not yet.
Not yet. So I mean, uh, maybe my my look at life is skewed, skewed, you know, twisted, and it is it is because going back to when I was a kid, I was not accepted by the general public. So my view of life is kind of skewed. Skewed. Yeah, yeah, So I I ask you for your understanding and forgiveness for having that kind of like view as a Yogo d h h. But I am one h but because of who I am, because of the race I am, because of the class I am, I have been twisted, so you must forgive my twisted view.
Well, Keoni, we have been so honored to have you as a part of the Boy Meets World legacy, an actor with almost three hundred credits to his name, so many memorable roles and projects. We really thank you very much for spending your time and coming on the podcast and talking with us. It was we thank you a real.
Joy, amazing.
Well, I am honored as well. I know about your careers and I am very honored as well to be accepted by you.
Thank you for spending your time with us. We really really appreciate it. And I hope it's not the last time.
Hope.
I hope our paths cross again. I mean, who would have predicted that almost thirty years later, our paths would cross here on this podcast, So I hope it's not the last time. Thank you so much, Thank you very much.
I am honored, have a wonderful day. Bye bye.
What a great conversation.
Yeah, amazing.
Yeah, again, his career is staggering, the things that he's done. It's just and the idea that even with that career, he kind of it seems like he kind of still looks at himself as almost a failure, which is straight.
And you know what, he's just a journeyman. You know, he's just like like when he calls himself an artisan and was like, right, because you're never done, like you're always this is about process, this is about acting, this is about learning, like he still wants to learn new skills and new things. That's so cool, man, What a great, healthy,
artistic perspective. You know, I'm sure it's led to a lot of periods of you know, difficulty and feeling bad about himself, but ultimately like he's succeeded because he it doesn't matter what project he's in, he's always going to be doing it, and he's always doing it one hundred percent.
Like yeah, I also.
At a comic con and you know, he he talks about how he you know, he's a little disturbed by the cult like uh, you know, stigma that that surrounds anime and things like that. But I can also tell you just from experience of watching him, he's so good with his fans. I mean, it's one of those things where he's still just so open with everybody that was waiting in line. Again, he had a line, you know
that that's sitting there waiting to talk to him. And so yeah, he might have that internally and he might talk about that, but if you're a fan and you go up to him, he's still going to show you just the utmost respect and and you're gonna have a great experience when you when you see him.
Yeah, I know, but like will, like you said it, it uh the the impact his families and and and the peers of his parents, that their opinion of him is still just so forefront of his mind that it feels like there's a it makes me emotional to think about, Like, you know, we look at him and his career and we're like awe struck by all of like, Wow, look what you've been able to do, Look what you've been able to accomplish. And you can tell that for him,
he it does. It's it's I don't know, it just feel if I don't know, it makes me emotional.
It's interesting like me, you know, cause I've talked about being friends with Larry Pressman, who's an older actor, and I remember one of the first times talking to him about people he knew, like great actors who were always ashamed that they were an actor, and that does seem like a generational thing, like especially for certain guys of certain age, like you know that that were acting in like the fifties or sixties, it felt like a cheap career, like it felt like you were sort of avoiding a
real job by being an actor and by just being a pretty face or you know, like there was an inscution And I remember hearing him say that and being like, oh wow, Like I think I had some of that too, Like I think I was often like, well, I don't want to just be an actor, like it just it's something right and it's like, wait a minute, this is an amazing thing, like that skill and the ability to
do it and like embrace it. So yeah, when I heard him say that, I was like, oh, yeah, you're never going to let that go that you didn't you know, become a doctor or whatever, but in reality what you did accomplish is insane. Yeah, Like it's so much like, yeah, so much more rare. But I do think that nowadays a lot of people, especially people who were listening to something like this podcast, you think of actors or acting as like automatically just a cool job. I think for
other generations and other contexts, it's not. It's actually like kind of like being a Carney vaudeville like that's like this, you know, the superficial job, this like weird thing that you do that maybe you'll get lucky, but it's not a real person's job.
As we just lost all of our carneye fans.
Sney, I think being a Carney is awesome.
I know when we go on our live show and we go on our live show tours, I'll never forget. I don't remember where we were, but there was some some green room that we had that was like really not anything pleasurable, and I was like, oh man, this green room kind of makes me sad that like this is where we are, and writers like, I love it. This is what we're doing.
We're into some awful, disgusting room and then we make a show.
Out we do the ND.
Yeah, I love it.
That's a cool that's a cool way of thinking about it, and it has changed the way I feel when I walk into a really musty green.
I kind of like it. I like they're weird and like you got these like do you remember that one time I couldn't find the coffee machine. It took like twenty minutes. It was like that whole other warehouse room. We don't know what it's for.
It's like, I don't want people to think we're we're of under selling what this I mean. I'm truly talking about the dankest.
Yeah, it's like.
A lot of backstages they don't care. It's that's the point is that you care about. You take care of the stage, you take care of the house, the front house, but backstage is like it's just terrible.
It's just for the some some you know, bugs and very very very bare bones. Feels like maybe an unclean hospital space. Uh and so.
Wait to do it again. Can't wait and do it again, Carni Folk.
Thank you all for listening to this episode of Podmeets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod meets World Show. You can send us your messages, you can send us your thoughts, your emails. Podmeets Worldshow at gmail dot com and we've got merch.
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Podmeets World is an iHeart podcast producer hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfridell and Ryder Straw Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tarasubash producer, Maddie Moore engineer and Boy meets World Superman Easton out Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at Podmets World Show, or email us at Podmeets World Show at gmail dot com