Be Kind, Rewind: “Home” with David Kendall

Susan and I are like twenty again, out living our lives. We've had dinner with friends, other friends, believe it or not, than you guys.

Yeah people, Yeah, yeah, it wasn't us.

And last night we went to what's called a play applot, say that right?

Oh my god?

At the Pantagious we saw Harry Potter.

Oh you saw a little play called Harry Potter.

Harry Potter, what'd you think?

Okay?

Couple things, God, First of all, the production is unreal. I mean, like the magic they're doing on the stage, and it's yes, incredible, I mean really incredible.

Would Adler and Keaton enjoy it?

Yeah?

It was full of kids, like it was, Oh my god, of kids. So this is where the story comes in, which is interesting. I Walt, I, my wife and I we went and had a wonderful dinner and then we walk in.

And we were in kind of we've got great seats.

We're in the center of the aisle, so you know, obviously we've got to walk past everybody.

They've got to stand up and let us in.

And like I said, it was full of kids, and a group of kids that were probably thirteen or fourteen all stood up to let us buy and the first guy went, first kid went, you're on Boy Mets WORLDO.

So A.

My wife's like, you just got recognized and you never get recognized, which is sea for know.

What's funny is I was you two twenty last night?

Wow, So that's no, it'll stick before see you two twenty just hits yes, trying too hard, but so I was like, yes I am. And all the other kids, oh my god, it was great. We saw the first half of the play. It was absolutely incredible. And then during intermission they came up and said can I have a picture?

Can I have?

And I'm looking at them and I said, you're all so young, yeah, to be Boy Meets World fans, And they all said the same thing.

Of course.

My mom was a huge fan of the show. My dad was a huge fan of the show. But we're going through the entire thing. It is so great. We love it so much.

And then one young man named Lucas came up to me.

Lucas, Shout out to Lucas.

Shout out to Lucas, who was the first young man who recognized me, and he said, I also want to let you know that I'm such a fan of pod Meets World. That it made my best friend and I start our own podcast.

Aw.

No shout out to the podcast called Oh Shut Up. I've never heard it, they're just starting it. They're two like fourteen year olds. I didn't get his friend's name. I apologized. I met him, but I didn't get his name.

But to Lucas and the Oh.

Shut Up podcast, Wow, that was inspired by them loving pod Meets World at.

Like thirteen years old. Wow, so we.

Are we writer and I saw this at nineties con younger and younger generations are finding boy Meets World again because they're watching with their kids or sometimes their grandkids and they're watching the show.

And now younger kids are finding the podcast too.

And it was such a cool thing to be at this amazing theater. If you've never been in the Pantage, it's it's gorgeous and watching this incredible stage show. And I want to hear I want to hear what you thought of the play, Lucas, Harrison, and Jamie. Apparently producer Jensen has already done the shout out for the Ocean Up podcast. No, the play was some of most of the acting was was good. Really, some of it was a little high school.

Wow, writer, have you seen it twice?

I saw it.

I saw on Broadway London and on Broadway. I saw it on Broadway, Okay, cried the entire time and was I just going through an emotional thing? Yes, I don't know.

Then I went and saw in.

La two weeks ago, cried the entire time. I really loved it even more. Id you Harry Potter as a dad?

It's a father son story.

It's like, it's the way like.

I, you know, had Indy went through the such Harry Potter phase. I had never read Harry Potter like back in the day, never, so I did it all with Indy, and I, you know, I liked it. I never like loved the Harry. I just felt I was too old. But when we saw the play on Broadway, I was like, this is my way into Harry Potter. It was just it got me. It's time travel, which I'm obsessed with time travel.

Right, But it's also men of meta universes, which you hate multiverse.

I know there's a little bit of fans service, but I just think the writing is so good. I think I think it's the best of all the Harry Potter stuff. It's the one for me, And I also just love the magic being live, like all.

The theater tricks that they do.

They do things like people transform on stage, there's flames arcing across they go on the train, the roof of the train, and like the special effects are so much more fun when they're live, you know, Like watching magic in the movies is like okay, c G I most of the time. Like for me after the third one, the visual effects I don't really like, but the.

Visual effects of the play like, oh so good.

How old do you need? How old do you think? Is the perfect time for me to start? Addler on Harry Potter?

It depends the first book.

The first I would argue maybe book and a half to two books could be for younger audiences.

By book three, it starts to get pretty scary.

There is not a Adler doesn't mind scary.

He doesn't mind sick. I think five or six, Indy was a little old. Indy was a little young.

But I think you were reading it to him, right, Yes, I read.

Him the first three books, and yes he tapped out of the third one.

Yeah, because I got there too early, and I think it give me a little sick.

Seven Yeah, was scary. It was just not as interesting. It was more complicated.

Like that, it gets very intricate, it gets more characters. It's almost like a kid's story and ends as a full fantasy series.

The first one is like a roll doll book like it's it's like good for kindergart's first graders to listen to.

It's great Sorcerers Stone. Yeah, I think you could start SORCER's Stone with them.

Do you need to have read any of the books to enjoy the play?

Yeah?

Yeah, okay yeah, or seeing the movies. You have to have seen the movies to really enjoy the play.

I think you need to know. I mean because again they're going back with old characters and new characters and yeah it doesn't yeah.

Okay, well so fun. Another question, why do you think you and suit because I also am reliving my twenties. I am going out all the time. Yeah, just all the time. I have three lunches this week with three different girlfriends.

That's crazy.

So what what's what's causing your twenties renaissance?

People are forcing us, I think would be the short answer. Oh okay, yeah, it's like, hey, you want to go over for dinner and we're like, yeah, like that, I think it's pretty much what's happening, or like, hey, we got tickets for the thing. Now we are we are we are actually enjoying it where it's been. It's also we know that this summer is going to be b A N A N A s. Yeah, because spell bananas, because we know we're going on tour, and so that's happening,

So living while you can.

Yeah, but we're also just.

Spending as much time just with the two of us as we can because we know she's going to be shooting out to sis go a lot, I'm going to be on tour. So yeah, there's we're spending as much time with each other as we can, and somehow that's arcing out to meeting new people and other friends and uh yeah, so we're going out and eating at restaurants and yeah, it's been it's been nice.

And once you start doing it, it gets easier and easier.

Right, Yeah, Well it's.

Like, yeah, it's like exercise or anything.

I feel like once you like get it that, I mean, this is the problem like for so many people coming out of the pandemic, right, it's like they got so used to just being home and like walk down that the idea of like you just have to get into the habit, like when you socialize, you just keep going.

It's so fun, that doesn't I can My balance is one night a week, maybe two, and then I want the rest at home. The idea we're four times a week's yeah, that's insane to me.

No, No, I do agree with you. Will a night out once a week sounds great.

We literally, as we were driving there last night, looked at each other and both at almost the same time said, if this play is not as entertaining as season three Love Island, USA, we're.

Both gonna be us so because we had to drive to get to it, we're Love Island right there in that room over there. So luckily it was very good.

But again shout out to Lucas, Harrison and Jamie and the Shut Up podcast, which was partially inspired by us on Pod Meats World helping the next generation people so you don't have a parent, I'm doing it.

Welcome to pod meets World.

I'm Daniel Fishal, I'm Rider Strong and I'm Wilfordell.

We have hit the midpoint of season six and we are taking a break to bring you more Rewind episodes, a new group of four episodes where we ask a past guest to come back on the podcast and pick any episode we've already recapped to talk about in order to bring their POV and thoughts to Pod Meets World. And this week we are bringing back a former writer, director, showrunner, and producer of Boy Meets World, a name we constantly say when we need an answer for something we don't know.

A Okay, can you see me?

Can you hear me? Can if you can hear it? Can you hear me see me. Okay, good, I just want to see if I can get you guys, just.

Well, still listen to you. You're still directed, Kendall. All right, still here, good, welcome back. So good to see you as always. I was really excited when I found out that you picked this episode for us. First of all, it's a real throwback for us, considering we are at the midway point of season six.

You're in middle of six now, okay, yeah, yeah.

So going back to two is just the warmest, coziest.

That's what you got from it?

Blank it? Yes, what did you get from it?

It just made me sad. It made me sad for in the show.

We are now, right, what do you mean?

Because because it's so good it is, the characters are so like well drawn and like, yeah.

It's a tight episode. Ere thing makes.

Television show than we're watching right now, just two different shows. And I was arguably having more fun shooting season six because we were all together in our cast.

But but man, it was it was like slipping into a warm tub.

And at first it was great, and then it just made me sad.

You directed season six, right, we must have seen an episode because you came back.

I came back.

I was.

I ran for two and three, I was not there at all for four. I got into the rotation in season five and was there through to the end.

I tried to take that season.

Six episodes you would have directed that we've seen already.

I can't remember where you are in it. But I picked this episode because it's the only episode that I worked on as a writer, producer and director of the show. Because it's the end of season two, and that was my first season, and I, you know, I hired myself to direct it, and uh, you know, and it was only the second episode of television I had ever directed, and so it yeah, important to me in a lot of ways, and and and it turned out great, and you know, I watched it the other night and it

So right, I'm curious when you were you were I've let that show, I've.

Let that shoe.

I'm glad you know the date and.

The time when you were producing the show and hired yourself as a director.

What was the interview process like.

It was tough?

Yeah, it was tough.

It was tough.

Yeah, tough questions, tough questions, but I got through it.

It's kind of a blur. It's kind of a blur.

So I'm glad we're setting the record straight. Home was not directed by David Trainer was directed by David Kendall. That is an I m d be mistakes.

Well, you know, hell with them? Yeah? Or the heck with them? Can I say hell?

You can say whatever you want.

Okay, Okay, you're gonna blip this out.

We won't use it as a all right, Okay, Well, let's remind our audience what the synopsis of the show is. Sean is invited to stay with the Matthews after Chet takes off, he starts to feel like a burden and sneaks out. Sean ends up on mister Turner's doorstep yet again, where Turner gives him a lecture about finding direction in life. So this episode you directed, you produced, you helped write, it was so much for you? Was this like a super big undertaking for you?

Well, you know, at that point, it's the end of the season, so the scripture are pretty much done, or they should be. But it was just kind of a nice thing for me just to be selfish for a moment. Is I was involved. You know, I was on the floor. I'm running the room, I know you folks, and it's like, I'm I want to direct, and it's like, here's an opportunity. And the networks was cool with it. Michael was cool with it, and you know, it worked out, so it

I was really excited.

And you know, looking back thousands of years later, it's still like, hey, this is a good episode.

It What was the first one you directed? You said this was number two?

Oh?

I on Just the ten of Us, the Growing Plaint spin off. In my previous life, I directed an episode of Just a ten of Us.

Cool.

Do you remember if we knew we were picked up or not? You never knew, We never knew.

I mean that was a point. It's like we lived on the bubble for all those years, at least of the years I was there, and.

That was part of the redoing or revamping or whatever we did in season two. Was it was not a guaranteed. It was not a lock. The show is not a lock, and I don't know if it ever was.

We talk about this a lot about like how the season story ideas come together. Where in the process from a writer and director showrunner perspective, where does the idea for what the finale of a season might be? Where does that come in the process? Is it very early on?

Well, usually early on you have an idea of where you want to go okay, and what the kind of big markers are going to be, and what the kind of for one of a better turn, the milestone episodes are going to be where the big turns are, And it was I can't remember where the inception of this came from, but it was like, you know, we were looking to evolve the show. Bringing in Tony was a great addition and the chemistry that he had with everybody was great. And again, it's a TV show, it's a comedy.

Corey seriously.

What would be a nice evolution And since the teachers were mentors, it was it just kind of seemed organic. I don't I don't remember the the pulling and hauling and and and stuff that went on in the room, but it seemed like a nice logical, organic conclusion and a way to keep people tuned into what's what's going to happen next year? And also what's also was good for us in the show and people running show, is the network just going to think, what's going to happen?

Will this look interesting next year? Right?

So do you think from like day one at the start of season two, was the idea at the end of this Sean's gonna end up living with mister Turner.

Oh?

Absolutely not, because we don't know that Tony's going to work out, We don't know how the chemistry is going to be, and you know, you usually want to be or at like I want to be, you know, eight or ken stories ahead. But it was just kind of working and it's, uh, it worked out nice.

Now we've already had the episode where Sean is going to take the baseball bat to Turner's bike, right, that was only that was like three or four episodes before.

This, Harley's last episode, Harley's well, the character of Harley's last episode.

Yeah, yeah, I think because by then you could tell that you guys were already planting the seeds for me, Yeah and Turner to be together that way, we.

Were starting that and seeing how you guys worked off. And also one of the great blessings of the show is how much how the chemistry was between so many of you of you actors, and it's like, hey, Tony's stuff is looking really good with with with Ben, with Feoenie, I mean, some of their their discussions, the back and forth between uh, Turner and Foenie are just great. And the back and forth with with Sean and Tony was

He's not an a hole. He's yelling at this kid.

Who's who's screwed up, and it's like you're still on his side, which is, you know, not a small accomplishment.

That's one of the things I think watching this episode made me realize so much about seasons.

And I'm not going to sit here in Bashion season six, they're just different. They're just different. I know, but it so made me miss the adults.

It made me miss the grown ups of the show because we became the grown ups of the show. So Rusty and Betsy weren't there, Tony wasn't there, even Kat Thompson. I mean, there were scenes that just took place between adults, and it was such a nice break from it being a kid show quote unquote that it really was a wonderful balance that it.

Was also as adults were we kind of act crazy and six you're like you're you as like Eric as an adult is not like that's not what's happening.

And Sean and Corey are kind of flailing.

So it's like there isn't that ground I mean, I guess Beanie's there, but he's also kind of like out of his element too, Like this has such a clearer like worldview that is so grounding and and and comfort comforting, you know, and then as kids, like we mess up and but there's a sense that like I don't know, it's it's I missed like the Matthews House, I miss the school.

I like to do a show for six or seven years, it's nearly impossible.

I mean, going to college really destabilized our sense of location, Like you know, the student union kind of becomes that, but like the dorm rooms never fuel because everyone's got their separate room, Like it just doesn't.

Whereas when I watched.

This episode, it's like, ah, there's an apartment where Turner, you know, and even that is going to become a center of a new show.

Had to grow and the characters I know, of course, don't like change. Dave, I know you do.

I remember the drop shot when you watched the first episode of season two. And also it was nice to see how the promise. I guess I'm tooting my own horn a little, but of what we started in season two ended and sign of all kind of came together in those last episode season two, pushing us all into season three.

Yes, and I love how beautifully the A and B storyline connect in this one. It's just so to me. It is such a mastery of writing when you're able to get the fact that mister Turner in his life is being confronted with the idea that he's having a

There's another layer too, where there's then moments of the c story that come into the A story with Phoenie, you know, telling Eric to miss the locker and all that kind of stuff where it's like Feoene's involved in the Matthews lives too, So even that story comes in.

It was really great, really really well, well.

What's so great there's so many great things about the show we're still talking about it a billion years later. Is Bill is so strong that Bill can do a moment and it's just you feel his present throughout it. I mean, Eric Locker is just a great guy, and.

He tells you everything yes yes, yeah, it's a tiny snippet, and tells you everything you need to know about their relationship. And of course, when you know right from the from the minute he says, I need you to do some yard work, you know instantly this of course is going to be one of the three Secrets, one of the Three Secrets is that he needed to get his brain off of it. But also it's a fun way of feeling, like, you know, Phoene's getting free work. It's just so great.

Going back to going back to what what Will was talking about With the adults too.

It's really interesting to think about how much time the adults are concerned about the kids.

Like they're all talking to each other.

They're all figured it's like Sewan's not like Seawn's life experience is not happening in a vacuum. There's like this sort of Greek chorus of God's you know, like the adults sitting around being like what are we going to do about Sean? Who's going to take care of Sean? What's happening with Seawn's dad?

I don't know? And like that is I really missed that? Like that is so comforting.

How good is Darlene? How good is Darlene?

Phenomenal?

But it's also the thing that's so great is that the keeping it another step towards how real it is. It easily could have gone Sitcom with We're all just so concerned about Sean.

What's gonna happen with Sean, but it was also Alan going we can't afford this, Yeah, yeah, our family can't physically afford this.

This is affecting us too, and man, I feel so bad for Sean, but there comes a point where we're not going to be able to do this anymore. So it was just even another layer of realism onto it, which is just so great.

But just another thing and looking at it the other night is the moment where Sean arrives with the cop at the door or excuse me, the cat, Darling Vogel and Tony Quannard having the scene and it's interrupted the cops of the door. There's an act break, but it really plays like five six minutes of straight ahead action without any breaks in the time is just straight ahead.

That's one of my favorite scenes, like watching it back too, like, because that's where I turned right.

Like, what do you want to know about where you are? I mean, at that moment, you're just and then we put our feet up.

I was just like, Oh, that's.

Like going to be such a big part of the show. And you can just see it come together right there. You're like, oh, now they have to live together.

That physicality is that was and I think this was all you, David.

I mean, all the messicality of her taking his hands and putting his hands on her face and all that kind of Oh, it.

Was just was wonderful.

Really well, speaking of the adults on the show, I want to talk to you specifically about Blake Clark, because he's.

Oh goodness great, Yeah, Blake is great.

I mean we talk about I mean, this is this could almost be considered a drive by for him if it weren't for the fact that he was a recurring character on the show already. What we talk a lot about is when we get a fantastic guest star that pops in, has only a couple of scenes but leaves a lasting impression. We call that like a great drive by. Yes, he does that. He has one very short scene where he's not even in the room with any of the

I can't remember. I think he just read and he nailed it. And so many great things about Blake, and I've worked with him on other years after that is and this was true in the writer's room when you're working on stuff and trying to come up with stuff for Blake, is like everybody ends up talking like Blake.

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, Sean.

It's so infectious. It's kind of attitudes.

And everybody and your picture lines and your pigeon like Blake. And just to answer the question from because I not only did I watch the episode, I listened to your rewatch.

Oh you listened to twenty three?

I did you know? I'm nerdy that way? You know?

Okay?

And that when you see uh Chet at the restaurant and you see out the window that's a giant TV pushed up against the window.

Amazing and somebody ran out.

And just shot some stock footage of just kind of we shot the stock footage of just cars driving by, and we had you know, uh, the lighting department propped the TV up so it's right by the window. Wow, And we put a shade over the window so you eyed un't time to study it, and so it was a nice little effect.

So, you know, really amazing.

I want to say shout out to our lighting department too, because they're also that scene with Sean and Corey in the in the bedroom. Yeah, yeah, wonderful in a way that our shows usually aren't.

And the way that the black, the lighty, the shadow is right over Sean's eyes, it's really effective. I was like, actually noticed it.

I was like, this the show is like a noir suddenly has like this noir look to it.

That was really cool.

And Ben's moment when he says he needs a home and he does so cute and fun and smart and funny and and you know, everybody was great in that episode and Ben, uh, you know, Ben nails its it all.

Absolutely God when he comes out of the tree at the end and he's like, oh God, I broke God's so funny and.

Ben is ninety year old, man. I mean take the rolls, you know.

And by the way, we will say he's also been a high point of season six for us.

One of the one of the few high points of season six has been seas.

He is having so much fun. He's back to very neurotic Corey and that that has been really nice.

But he seems so young in this does doesn't he like?

Because I'm physically the same size, but Ben is so much smaller when we started the shows, like.

I think his moments before his voice changed too.

Yeah, yeah, I remember that he came back. I think for season three it was like, hey, how you doing. It's like whoa wow?

Yeah, Hi, okay, So I know we must have I know we talked about it when we did our original recap. I'm not as prepared to as David. I did not re listen to it.

Yeah, I'm curious during your re listen, did you also miss the adults? No?

Okay? What was in the bag that Kat left at his house? I think we decided it must have been a bra.

You decide, okay. I think it's good to not know what it is.

Oh.

I think to have it open for disc USh and it's actually more interesting.

You're going a Tarantino exactly what we were doing. That glow that comes out.

Better to not know and not not define it.

Ever, say that word.

It's better to not define it.

Will you have a problem with panties? Panties?

People do it. It doesn't bother me really. Yeah.

Wait, panties is like moist, where some people like it, and moist is totally fine for me.

But what about moist panties?

I think it was a bra. She said she has more than one of them, and and that it was fine to leave at his house.

There's a braw fit in that tiny little don't they fold?

I meant, oh, it's not that tiny. It's a lunch bag. It's a brown paper or lunch bag definitely fits in there.

Wait. Does he use the singular or plural?

I think he uses the plural?

Does he uses same? You say you left these or you left this? Because this is a bra.

Let it be a mystery for the generations to ponder.

Okay, okay, says this it's a bra.

We still think it's Fanny's.

He doesn't say these, he doesn't.

Okay, you got it. This is the show, Dave.

This is what happened? Okay, Yeah, that's.

What happens when you know, when you do a TV show together for seven years and then you do a podcast together for about seven years.

And your friends twenty years in the middle tour and then tour exactly.

I know another thing we must have spent a long time talking about, because I'm even having flashbacks as I'm saying it. It is about cat needling Turner about marriage and love.

Oh yeah, we'll have a thing about that.

After the war months of dating. Yes, yes, it's a real or get off the pot conversation? And is what do you think.

Of the original line to get off.

That?

It would have been better?

Yeah?

What do you think? Is it was this? Looking back? Do you think that was premature of her? Or what's your what's your take on it?

Yeah, it's premature, but people do premature things. I mean, that's the thing.

People say inappropriate things all the time. So and also I think, and I looked at it again the other night, she's almost joking.

If Tony had.

Had decided to diffuse that with a laugh, it would have not got serious contes that mean you want to marry me?

And he could have made a joke about that.

He took it seriously, right, you got that right?

Right? Yeah?

Okay, yeah.

And also it's probably it could be inappropriate, but you know, maybe that's how she felt in the moment, if we're taking Kat as a real character. But also people say things they shouldn't all the time.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And and people, especially uh adults in relationships of a certain age where you start to feel the pressure of am I gonna get married? Am I going to have a family? Every relationship starts to take on a new level of importance. And if you think you found somebody you could settle down with. I can understand from her perspective being like, do you think you could feel the same way about me?

Because gave her an opening he said forever. Yeah, and it's you know, and she could just be saying, what do you mean by forever? I mean, it's just I don't think it was a horrible thing, you know.

And the way it ties in perfectly with the fact that she left something and unmentionable at his house and it bothered him so much. She's like, you don't you don't have to do this every time I leave something at your house that has a feeling. Yeah, that's a feeling you would get where you're like, why is it so offensive to you for an item of mine to be in your home for longer than like the evening. You don't have to bring it back to me every time,

It was a make or break thing. It was kind of defining who you are, what your brain is. I mean, it's it's it's it's crap because that doesn't define who you are, who you can be. But it was really like getting a brand in your face, like okay, what your what your number is, or what it's going to be. And uh, you know, I'm glad it's it's that is de emphasized, you know so much, and we put enough

He was also Ryder and I have talked about how and Danielle has has We've all discussed how I learned how to act kind of as the show was going, and every time I'm with Jason, especially in the early episodes, you just see the difference in the caliber of sitcom actor for that age. I mean, Jason was working on another level than I was at that point. He was just so good and so natural with the comedy. And

This is his last episode, it was, right, Was this.

The last time we saw season two? Yeah, I don't know if he came back for a season. So he walks off that he does.

He does.

He's one of the few exits like the other way from Phoenie's yard, like.

Camera oh my gosh.

Yeah, No, it was just the whole episode is It was great and everybody, you forget how big a cast we have until you see an episode like this, and there's multiple storylines going on with that all intersect, but it seemed like we had forty.

People in the company when you're watching this episode.

It was really amazing to see kind of the dance of everybody working.

Around and it worked. It all worked great.

Yeah, it's a great episode. It was fun to see Ivory ocean Ash the policeman as policemen. In Growing Pains, he played a part called cop.

So you know. He was also also in Seinfeld he played the one eyed police officer who's trying to find newman a white whale. So he's I mean he right when he popped on. This guy constantly plays a police.

Officer that's cop or policeman. Yeah.

Yeah.

We joke a lot about the very serious young writer Strong and how seriously he took his craft. You were there obviously dealing with some of his very first big dramatic scenes and episodes. Right, What do you remember about as the director steering the ship for young dramatic writer Strong.

What I remember is that his instincts were always good, and he always understood it and always felt it and always took it seriously in a good way. Those memory banks are pretty dusty, I think we were probably looking at trying to make sure it didn't get too darker introspective, But those memory are are pretty dusty and just kind of remember, you know, the stuff in the scene where you know, what do you want to know about women? And the moments where he says he needs to leave

I think I think by this at this point, I probably was had a lighter touch. I think it was more like seasons three and four that it real they started to get like you know, I mean by the time Turners in the hospital, and I'm like, I feel like that was when you had your got I'm a drum yeah, godolog And that's when I think at this point, as much as I wanted it to like, I feel like I probably were We all had a light touch.

So Tony keeps it.

He keeps it light, even the serious stuff, which is just you know, gifted an actor he is.

Yeah, he's what's supposed to be there.

I'm sorry that he and Kat are supposed to be what like early thirties, thirty two to thirty three kind of age right now?

Sure, I think late, I don't think.

I don't know.

I think I was going to say mid thirties.

I was going to say I was going to say very school in their twenty really think, okay.

I I was curious where they would where they would.

Be I think somewhere between twenty eight and thirty three.

But it's like, yep, yeah, that makes sense.

Okay.

Well, this episode ends on like a seemingly very promising note that Sean is going to move in with mister Turner, and then very quickly in season three, we get to a mysterious motorcycle accident. Do you remember before knowing there was going to be a motorcycle accident, do you remember any of the long term ideas for a Sean Turner living together scenario?

When was the motorcycle accident? I don't think it was season three?

I think it was season four. Wasn't in three?

Did? I did? Think he did?

And three?

Tony was live and healthy when I left.

The show, I was, I was alive and healthy.

I think season three is when my mom comes back and I go back to No, that was season four too, wasn't the season.

I think season three? When does Chet have his heart attacks?

Was that season six?

Okay?

Yeah?

Yeah, but yeah, I Tony was alive, he was fine. He was obeying traffic laws.

I guess that's.

When people are yelling at their their radio in their phones right now.

Way, how do you not know you've seen it? How do you now not know? Yes? I think he was. Think Tony was there for all of two and all of three, right right?

They moved together for all of three, yeah, and then four. Okay. Do you remember any of your ideas for for Turner going into season three? Do you remember anything of yours that was like, here's a storyline for them that I really want to do.

I know, but you asked I remember any my ideas, And normally I think there's a code you don't say what your jokes were or anything. But I do remember the shaving cream on the I'm.

So glad you said that because I noticed it when I washed it. I was like, how did I miss that the first time? It's so funny, great.

I remember that that was my shaving.

His unibrow is brilliant, really good.

And you know, and and you know, Rider was a good sport about it. You know, you never know how someone's going to react when you just say, I'm to draw attention to this. Yeah, as a teenager, so you know it was.

It was good gag.

And all the s's in the refrigerator when Amy was marking that, I was just I was glad to be able to throw in a couple of you know, visual things in that episode.

And then the S matches the patch on the back of the jeans. It makes me laugh. So it made me laugh so.

Much, big What do you think my mom's going to do?

She's going to take it back, patch it, clean it and put an S on it like that was oh god, it was such a good lie.

I also forgot already we have to do a rewatch of the rewatch of the recast of the RePOP because I forgot Lily did two seasons.

I know, I thought she was only in the first season when I see her sitting at the tables, like.

Oh she did too full too.

Yeah, I thought she.

Was on a season. Then she wasn't. And then Lindsay came.

On and you know, the network said, you don't need her. You're going to uh tell her or her reps or her parents that she's not coming back for season three. That was really a wonderful moment in the show.

So you had to do that.

You had to do it.

I was instructed to do that, and so rather than the network do it, I thought it would be more appropriate for people who worked on the show to call you know, her dad.

And that was you know, how did that conversation go?

They again, that's in dim memories, but they seemed to take it well and didn't sound all that surprised, or maybe it was just a professional approach, but that was you know, you You've talked about it a little bit, and it is amazing. The show ran for seven years and it's still insanely popular. Is it wasn't treated all that well by Networking Studio in terms of you know, being cheap. It's just like, you don't need the little girl. You're going to get rid of her, and it's just

You're going to do it.

I think I think her dad, whose name is also David, probably was a little more pragmatic about it because he's a producer, so he probably you know, like, okay, I get ITV.

We've also discussed that Lily didn't necessarily seem like she was loving Oh.

I had heard that she you know that the first season I wasn't there, So you guys can can see if this comports with your memory. Was when she heard about the pickup.

She cried in front of the audience. Yeah, she started balling in front of the audience.

Normally, that's not the reaction you want from an actor. Where guess what, there's another season.

She started yelling, I don't want to do this anything. Yeah, it was.

The bad time when we got picked up for the back nine, it was it was best for her.

Yeah, yeah, okay, she seriously didn't want to be there.

Yeah, I don't feel so bad now, Yeah I don't feel quite so bad.

But this episode also does a really good job of highlighting the chemistry between Will and Bill. Yes, I mean it's kind of a magical pairing. What do you remember about noticing that chemistry and then playing to it.

Well, it's you know, writers are kind of in the best way. Maybe this isn't the right word.

Are whores? Is like, if something works, we're going to go for it.

We're gonna write more of this.

You know, somebody gets the left, We're going to go for this. This works great.

Maybe another word would be an opportunity writer.

That's okay, you're taking wrors a bad way, you know, No, not as bad way, just alternatives.

Yes, we're sex workers.

We're sex workers making our customers happy.

Good, okay.

Yeah, it's just if this works, it's just you know, it's it's your guys fault for making it work, you know, and it's okay, this this is a great relationship.

We did talk about that recently, that it would would know.

It's almost every episode somewhere.

But we we talked about how we especially will will notice that if if something gets a laugh in one episode, we'll notice it again, if not the next episode, the episode after that, and maybe even a couple of them where it's like they worked the first time, will it work the second time?

I mean how many I'm what was it first season with Danger Boy, I'm this boy.

You know they tried.

One time and then you build on it, and then you build.

On I don't know if that was ever written.

It just a mister feenie with an exclamation point. Eric stands by the fence, mister feenie. That was it.

And then I could just milk.

It and well, I'm a whore, Dave, you're a sex worker.

But no, I remember, he's an opportune.

I have.

Really milk.

We just have to hurry up because I have to have an opportunist test later to make sure I'm healthy.

Yeah.

The uh no, the the The thing I remember distinctly was every time opening the script and seeing Eric and Feoeni together, I was just I knew it was going to be an awesome week.

I was just so happy because I knew working with Bill.

First of all, you were still kind of scared is not the right word, but scared around Bill.

I mean he was into Yeah, he was the consummate professional.

He was never angry, but he was also never the big warming Hey how was your weekend?

That just wasn't Bill.

Right, But he always treated you with the utmost respect. He treated you like another actor. You knew you were going to learn as you was like, just keep your mouth shut and learn as much as you can. And then when he did throw a compliment your way, it was the most amazing thing that ever happened.

He lived through what you guys lived through, which is amazing to think about that.

But he never told us that. We didn't know that.

He wouldn't tell We talked to years later, he said, Oh, under no circumstances was I going to tell you that I had been through any of this.

So he didn't.

I don't think he wanted us to ask him questions. He was like, I was not trying to relate too much to you.

Has it been told on the podcast the story that Bill wasn't entirely comfortable with being mister feenie, Oh yeah, in the front ear and what he said to David Traynor, I.

Would love to hear it from your POV as well.

All right, well they might have to blit the word is he said, Am I really going to have to stand on the other side of this fence.

For five years?

Seven?

So that has never been told on the podcast. I asked Bill about that, and I said, did you say that, and he said, I.

Suppose yes, sounds about right.

Oh my god, now it can be told.

Yeah, it's incredible.

We asked you about whether or not we at the end of By the time we were doing this finale, we knew whether we were picked up or not. We it feels like we were a show always on the bubble.

I don't know if we knew it, definitely, because also it was a strategy by Disney to keep us guessing and keep us on our toes and keep us, you know, not asking for too much.

Right. Wow, looking back now, with so much on your shoulders in season two, what do you think was the heart? What was the hardest part? Was it being a director, was it being a showrunner? Was it being a producer?

There's nothing harder than running a show. Okay, it is a miserable job. Yeah, and it's just it's twenty four to seven and the pressures and it's great job. I mean, it's wonderful and it's very satisfying. But it's not like I think people in the middle of running a show aren't. I'm having the best time.

I don't think you say that.

When you're running a show, you do that when you're directing or when you're acting, when things are going well, but running the show is is is really difficult, and there's always pressures and it's like, you know, somebody was that teaching a class or something. Someone said, so, what's a typical day in running a show?

Said? There is no typical day in a running show.

Yeah, you know, your script could be thrown out, the outline that you thought was going to work, the network doesn't.

Want to do.

The actor that you thought you had can't do it, and and you're going to have to rearrange scripts so that you can keep that actor in the arc. I mean, it's just the cut is seven minutes long, and you thought it was only going to be three minutes long.

And it's always.

Just it's just constantly putting out fires, right.

Putting out fires, And it's just, you know, is that script going to read well? You think we are so confident in the script, it's going to be great. Holy cow, there wasn't a laugh. We're going to be here all night, you know.

It's just you don't know, and it's great, and it's great.

Can I ask you, what do you remember what the biggest fire was you ever had to put out as the show runner a boy.

They were there's so much any that they always kind of blur.

And I was as I was going through getting ready for this episode and looking at the episodes that I had directed, I was remembering, I think it was the show that the Truman Show parody. I can't remember what it was called, but uh, in.

Case you just we just recap that, Okay.

A nutty show. It's it's very very nutty. And the table reading was a flat line. It was just nothing work. This is gonna be hell. And of course I'm not in the room now, I'm just on the stage waiting for pages. And it was like, okay, you're not going to have the script tomorrow. They're still working on it, so you know, what do we do? Well, we should have the first act by tomorrow, okay. And we ended

You know, it was a tough episode because you have the water coming down.

I'm the Truman Show. There's water on the set.

There's like them climbing out of a window, and then there's a huge crowd in the student union.

That's a complicated episode.

Oh man, So wait, I have I have a question for you, because you obviously are somebody who wore so many hats on the show. When you come back to direct something like The Truman Show and the script doesn't work.

Right, do you then also go into the writer's room or are you like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no.

I get the fun job. I get to go home, go home, Okay, so you know, I get the fun job, get the show. Another moment I remember in that is the Beast story was, uh, Corey and and Sean are trying to apply foene with with a nice brunch to improve, which was funny, really funny, and and you guys were great. The last moment of it, when Phoebe is flunking them is Ben flings a waffle at the table and Bill starts to eat it. If I had told Bill, We're going to throw a waffle at you and you're going

You're gonna eat it? He would have he would have looked at me a skance.

Right, But the fact that it was spontaneous.

Yes, and his idea, Yes, yes, they have to eat this.

Yeah.

So you know, things happen when when you don't plan it. But I remember that week was very strange because the table reading flat line.

And that makes sense because I did not like the A story, mostly because and we talked about this, because of my performance. I felt like it was it wasn't really played for comedy and it wasn't really played for drama, so it kind of fell somewhere in the middle.

But the man the bet story was hysteric.

Be sorry.

It was funny, and you know, there's some good moments in it, as there always are in that, but it was by that time there was just kind of nuttiness.

I mean I was not in the room for any of that.

Basically, I got the script delivered and it's like, Okay, this is my job this week. But uh, you know, I don't think America was dying to see boy Me's World do a Truman Show parody.

I don't know.

Now, how did you feel coming back to the show to direct episodes later, like did you have to bite your tongue sometimes with the direction they were taking some of the characters, or did you like you said, were you like, not my business, I'm going to direct with the handmade from.

For the most part, is like, this is my job. I remember the episode with the young artist, the girl who's in the same.

Age as but.

Alexandra Nikita.

Yes, And I remember getting the script and reading it at homegoing this.

Makes no sense. This is what's going to happen. I don't know what's going I couldn't sleep. What is what are people going to say? Are they going to send us home?

And I know it's not my job. Should I come up with ways to solve it? But that's not what I do? And so, you know, it was the table reading and it was fine. Yeah, there's some nice jokes, here's some moments that worked, and the notes were okay, and it was like it was a kind of a lesson, and this is your job, David. You're going to show up and you're gonna direct, direct it. And I remember a couple of things Bennett asked me while we were on the floor, is you know Corey's doing this, and

You know, so.

You wrote an extra scene that you couldn't actually write and just gave it to the actor.

Right, Yeah, so you know, it's what what you do.

And and it was just a lesson as I was still kind of learning how to be a director. And you get the script, you make it as good as you can. You find every single moment if someone asked you for your input as a producer and and but your that's not what your job is.

That's what I mean.

It's like in a way a kin you guys tell me because I'm not an actor, of being an actor, like here's the script, I'm going to make this work because that's my job.

It's so funny hearing you talk about that stuff, like thinking about now being a director myself, and how many of my conversations as a director with actors focus around things I don't have any control, you know, and it being like but story wise and but character but why

Are you the conduit then to then say, actor told me, Well, in a lot.

Of ways, actors have more power than the director. So the actors have more potential to go to the showrunner or the writers and say this needs to change. The director kind of can't do that, like because the actors are going to have to be there the next week, and you know, been a director, you might only be there for one week, so you don't have the authority you could.

You could maybe bring.

It up, but like you're not on the poster.

Yeah.

True, But on all the shows I have worked on, I have found so far that when a situation like that comes up and I say to them, would you like me to bring this up the showrunner? Every time the actor says, I would love that, thank you, and then I am able to go. Sometimes in thirty minutes when we break for lunch, go right up to the writer's room and say, hey, from the floor, this is what we're coming into right now, this is what this

And another thing I'm fond of doing is just saying your writers are very smart.

Yep.

Commit try yeah, try it.

You could surprise you and them and they're smart. If it doesn't work, they'll change it. But commit And often you know, and you guys know that as actors, you try something that you don't think might be wobbly or iffy, and you know what, the commitment made it work?

Yeah, Well, We used to hear that, especially during the earlier days.

We would hear Michael and some of the other writers and producers say stuff like that, like, if you don't commit, we don't know if it's going to work or not right exactly, So you've got to give it one hundred percent and we'll see.

Okay, you gave it on and it's dead. That's on us.

And the hardest thing in the world in show business is getting a TV show and a series on the air and getting it in production. And you earn the right to have the actors with respect commit to everything that you've been given. Ye and you know they're obviously compromising gray areas and it's not an absolute, but that's what. This is what And I feel that as director, it's like they're giving this to me. I'm going to try to understand it. If I don't understand it, I'll ask

I mean it's just look at all the I'm looking at Will, all the surreal stuff that that Foudel was given that because of commitment, it made it work that it shouldn't have worked, but can't work?

You went on to direct an uncountable amount of family TV. Well you may, what's the total? Do you know?

It's over two hundred episodes as directory.

Wow, Hannah Montana, even Stephens, Smart Guy, Victorious. The list goes on and on and on. Sydney to the Max, Yes, Yes, yes, yes. How is Boy Meets World the show with the biggest cult following? I mean we were always on the bubble. How is this going to show you that?

I was going to ask you that?

And if there's anything that you have learned from doing the show and watching the show and touring with it.

I don't know.

I asked chat Shebt that question yesterday. Did you why is the sitcom Boy Meets World so beloved and popular?

I asked chat Gibt yesterday?

And what was the answer.

Okay, I'll just read you the bullet points. Yeah, relatable coming of age journey, timeless life lessons, three, genuine character development, four iconic relationships Corey and Topanga and Corey and Sean, five perfect blend of comedy and heart, six nostalgia and cultural impact, and seven spin off love. That's what Chatchibt said yeah, that the Girl Girl three brought a new audience to the original show.

And yeah, yeah, Daniel, you were on a show called Girl Meets World, which was after Boy Meets World.

Well, tell me more about this show.

I really don't want to.

Okay, thanks, when's that rewatched? You know another thing I'd like to throw in the mix being an underdog. I think being a little bit of an underdog helps. We were kind of a show.

Yeah.

I think I think we were a show that that maintained even though people didn't think it was going to last, you know. I mean, and I think when you have I think that by definition, having a cult following must mean you weren't as popular or successful as some of the other shows were in its time, but it holds value for a longer period.

I think i'd said before is boy Mese World? Oh I'm working on boy Mese World? It went from what is that? To is that still on?

And to oh my gosh, you worked on Boys I know.

I remember when we did the picketing the writers Gil Yes ticketing day and and fans showed up.

I mean, that was incredible.

The other thing that CHATCHYBT missed because it's it's just a machine. Is the chemistry is the so much great chemistry.

Now we never got it when we were on the air, because it was always we came on TGIF and all the press, everything was all JLIL and family matters. And then they left and we were maybe it's gonna be us and then Sabrina comes on and we're like, what the actual is happening?

We're now they're getting all the press. We were always skipped.

We were always skipped, and I think there is something to that to people at first, like, well, Boy Meets World was my favorite, and then it just kind of kept growing and growing, and then I think it was the second round. Was it ABC Family in the second round or did it go right to Disney.

Channel the second round? Disney Channel wherever re aired it.

I think that's really where because then it was on MTV and Disney Channel and all these different plays, and I think by that point the second run is really where the people started to and it.

Was a really strong ensemble. I think the other TJF shows were more geared towards one or two characters, and this was about a group of friends growing up and mentors and life lessons.

But that's the chemistry.

I think there's also something to the fact that there was very little, if anything about our show that was kitchy, where it was like Sabrina was Sabrina. But it was always also about magic, right, you know, a lot of there was always some kind of little hook and they were magical.

They were this.

We were just it was a family show. There was a bunch of people growing up together. There's a great line writer and I were talking about what we all were. But I went to go see The Harry Potter and the Curse of the Golden Child or whatever it's called last night at the Pantagious and there's a line where the two of the characters are talking and one of them says the other, I always thought being a parent was the hardest job in the world.

It's not. It's growing up. Growing up is the hardest job in the world.

And I think there's something about watching especially Corey and Sean and Corey and sewn at Tapanga all growing up together with the same age of the people that are watching the show. Yes, that was the crux of the show, as we're all growing up together as opposed to and they're all great shows as opposed to you're watching me what it's like to be a witch. Yeah, you know, those are two very different things, and I think one of them sustains because growing up is growing up, no

And also, the people who were our audience who grew with the show are now in their thirties and forties, and the people who are who run the world now, you know, it's just like that's the group that has taken their place front and center in the world.

Yeah.

Well, one of the other things that chat GPT missed is David Kendall. Yes, you, David Kendall is one of the reasons Boy Meets World is still being talked about. You were obviously such an instrumental part of our show, and you wore so many hats. We absolutely love you, We appreciate you, Thank you for being here. You're still the very first person we name when we go. You know what we should we need to know the answer to this, we got We gotta Kendall. Kend Kendall will know.

Okay, I'm embarrassed, but.

This was directed by David TRANP.

I will do that because I am d d You know what, I think you probably could email I m dB and get this corrected.

He's got two hundred episodes of television. What's one?

Thank you, David. Always always a pleasure to see you and spend time with you.

I love you guys, you know that.

And can we do a lunch?

What are you doing now?

One more podcast?

We're working?

Dave?

Okay, well, good so soon. Loved you all, loved your spouses and children, those of you that have them.

Yes, thank you so much, David. I love how how much detail he knew about that episod, even though David Trayner now it's unbelievable.

It's just hearing him talk about it.

You think about how rare it truly is to have somebody who's executive producing, writing, and directing. I mean, you get here, you're now in like the Seinfeld kind of there's a handful of people that do it.

I mean Tim Allen didn't do that for for Home Improvement.

I mean all the biggest sitcoms, they weren't writing direct I mean it's very rarefied air and television to wear all three of those hats.

At the same and now it's shocking that he was like, there's no harder job in the world. This is not the shocking party. There's no harder job in the entertainment universe than show running. And then he was like, and so I was show running and decided let me direct this one.

But I remember talking to him when we were when we were at the strike and asking him like, what do you know, because it was always kind of surprising to me that he stuck with directing, because he started as a writer on Growing Pains and then you know, got to be a showrunner.

And but he was like, no, no, directing is why you do this. He just working with actors.

He loves being on set. And it's cool because I feel the same way. You know, like whiting is kind of it's like a means to an end.

You know.

It's like you want to tell stories, so you have to write to get it out. But like it's lonely or you're in a room and it's competitive, it's like it's hard, you know, whereas directing, even when it's hard, it feels like you're just I don't know, it's so exciting. It's so exciting to be on a set and a problem solve in real time with actors and your crew. It's so fun, even when it's hard, it's fun, whereas I think show running it's really thankless.

Totally.

Yeah, if either of you had to make a guess, why do you think Michael never directed an episode? That's a really good question, because I mean he basically was kind of doing it anyway a lot of the time. So why do you think he never took the reins of one, I mean a special one that meant something to him. It's kind of now that I'm thinking about it, seems odd that he never directed an episode.

Yeah, that's a good question.

That is a good question something only can be answered.

Jacobs.

Well, he did end up directing a movie, right, Yeah, relatively, And so he directed a lot of theater too, didn't he No?

Oh, I thought he directed some of the plays that he thinks. Oh, I thought he did.

No.

Yeah, I there's I know there were there were there were complaints from the d g A a lot h.

That he was overstepping uh.

And I mean, you know, I remember like talking to people that DJA like how oh yeah, that we used to get calls about Michael all the time, because directors or director's assistants would be able to like call and say this person should not be doing this job, overstepping their bounds.

But oh, he directed an episode of My Two Dads, so he that episode, so yeah why not?

Maybe yeah maybe, I mean it's true.

He could have could have hated it, so we'll have to ask him someday.

Well, thank you all for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us your emails pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com. And we have got merch.

I got nothing merch.

Wow, you got nothing nothing.

We've emptied the merch bucket, emptied the merch bucket.

I get merchie.

Merch just go back to the original. What did you say we used to just go merch.

March something like that. Yeah.

Those are just sounds more than anything else. And he Kendall to direct me.

Pod Meets Worldshow dot com will send us out.

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Pod Meats World is nheart podcast producer and hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfredell and Ryder Strong. Executive producers Jensen parp and Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara sudbachsch producer, Maddie Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon and you can follow us on Instagram at Podmeets World Show or email us at Podmeats World Show at gmail dot com