S1E6: HDP

Welcome to Pluribus, the official podcast, an intimate insider conversation about the making of the with the cast and creators behind the show. My name is Chris McCaleb. I'm one of the editors of Pluribus and the host of this podcast.

This is not a recap show. It's more of a wide-ranging roundtable discussion about the making of each episode. So if you haven't watched this week's episode yet, I definitely recommend before listening because we'll be talking openly about the plot, how we made it, everything.

This podcast is about episode 106, entitled HDP, written by Vera Blasi and directed by Ganja Montero. In this episode, Carol records evidence of her discovery, then... worried that the others won't distribute her findings, rushes to hand-deliver a tape to Mr. Diabate, who is having the time of his life in Las Vegas.

I really love this episode and this was a fun conversation. So without further ado, let's welcome to the podcast executive producer and creator Vince Gilligan. Hey, writer of this episode, Vera Blasi. Hello. The director of this episode, Ganja Montero. Hey, yeah. And Mr. Diabate himself, Samba Chute. Bienvenue. And on the ones and twos, the wheels of steel, Nicholas Tsai. Hello. Hello, Nicholas.

well let's get into this episode hdp huh is that what's really going on is that it made me think is that what we've been eating for lunch Oh, well, you know. Because I don't know that I gave consent for any of that. So much going on in this episode. Let's start with Ganja and Vera. You're coming into this kind of group of people who've been...

kind of doing this Better Call Saul style. Talk about coming in, writing the script, getting into the script, how you approach it. Well, it was a dream come true. For sure. It was my first television episode, so I was a little bit nervous at first, but I got in the groove and Vince was so generous and so helpful. Everybody was.

it's really teamwork and i think that that was one of the most comforting things about the experience was how everybody cared about everybody and we were happy like pluribus happy That's right. We are very happy people. That's true. I have known you for years. I am so glad to get to work with you because I've known Vera for years.

Our mutual friend, Mark Johnson, who was the guy that kind of discovered me way back in October in 1989 at the Virginia Film Festival when he was the judge of a contest. I was one of the winners. And he is an excellent producer and he knows talent when he sees it. I'm not speaking about myself. I'm speaking about because he gave me your script. It's a stranger in a strange land kind of.

as I recall, kind of story where Pontius Pilate moves to Judea. He's basically posted there by the Roman emperor, the Roman government, and he feels like he's a fish out of water and he's... You know, there's a certain amount of sympathy for the devil, so to speak, and it's just really stuck with me. Some smart producer is going to actually make this thing at some point. Well, you know, after... being here with you i believe miracles can happen so vince uh was so kind to read it and we

met and we've been meeting sort of like at parties or events. And then after the pandemic, I came back to LA because I spent the pandemic with my parents in the Bay Area. So I came back to LA and I thought, oh my gosh, what happens now? I was so cut off from everything and you invited me to lunch and I thought, oh, this would be great. I'm going to catch up with Vince.

And then he said, do you want to come and write on my new show? And I was like, oh my God, is this possible that you come back from a pandemic? to a city that has become a little bit strange and you want to get your bearings and now suddenly you have the best job in the world! You fit right in. You did a wonderful job. And Ganja, how about you? How did you come into this whole situation?

I was working on a pretty tough job filming in LA. And I received a message saying that the Vince Gilligan team was interested in meeting. And I met with Jen, Trina, and Diane, and it was a great conversation. I didn't have a script, obviously. It was all very, I think it was more of a vibe check, I think. And I guess I passed the vibe check.

And I think that it was the first experience where I felt like this is how filmmaking should be, how TV making should be. I think that in the TV space sometimes.

it's so fast-paced and as a director you don't get to hire your own crew but not always are you coming into a place that is truly collaborative where the intention is very much the same i mean everyone's trying to make the same thing right sometimes it feels like you know i'm making one show the dp is making another and the showrunner is making yet another and i think because vince and the whole team have been together for

13 years or so oh gosh we've been going on 20 going on some some of the folks yeah yeah so 20 years or so and i think because of that it puts everyone in the same frequency and that is exactly what you need in order to bring out the creative juices and I always say that things either expand you or contract you and the Vince world definitely opens you up so that you can do the best version of

the thing that's already been written you know and i think it's our job as directors to come in and elevate and make this incredible script that's already super strong you know and it kind of really does pop off the page but making it even more real, authentic, and in this case, making it the most visceral and realistic and humanistic, I think, that it can be because it is a pretty wild story. Right. Well, it seems like it would be an even bigger challenge for you coming in on episode six.

When, you know, the machine is already kind of in motion and things are the stories are being told. I mean, were you given the scripts of the other episodes? You had to kind of catch up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what's interesting coming in midseason is that.

Because I've often come in early in the season or finishing it out. So then there are more episodes to watch. And coming in mid-season, I was able to watch the pilot, which was really helpful. But this is like right before I started production. So I was able to get a true sense of what the visual style, what the tone, because the tone, it's so specific and so unique and so fresh. I think that's the thing is that the show is ultra fresh. There are no comps for it.

it's almost impossible to say, oh, it's this meets that, you know, which is the classic Hollywood thing, the way to describe new projects or ideas. And so, yeah, I think that... Having had the scripts, obviously Vera, who not only is an incredible writer, but is also Brazilian, like me. Well, I wasn't born there, but my DNA is 100% Brazilian. Her Portuguese is 100% Brazilian, too.

Oh, yeah. I work hard on it. But she obviously had been in the room. So I think that also helps to give you a very...

smooth bridge into what was planned, the thought process behind everything, because that's what you really want to understand. It's not just what's on the page, but what is the subtext? What are the... interior innermost thoughts that then led to this and same goes for the characters the words that are coming out of their mouths are often not exactly what they're thinking you're feeling right is that true Samba

Are the words coming out of Mr. Diabate's mouth the words of Samba Shoot? Well, it's really interesting because when I first got this audition, I had just become a dad. I was getting two hours of sleep a day. And a month later, I get an audition for an untitled Vince Gilligan project. And I think I'm in a fever dream. But I see the name was, it was Dummiesides, I realized at this time.

And the name of the character was Mr. Kumba. And that's a very Mauritanian name. And so I thought, oh, my God, this is a Mauritanian character. Vince wrote a Mauritanian character. So I immediately understood. the words he was saying, and it felt like it was something really close to home. And that made it easier to get into this guy's skin. Little did I know that when I did my first audition, I played him very smooth, macho and everything.

Did that at the callback when I got a callback five months later. Was it that much later? It was that much later. Oh, my God. I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. No, I thought I'd lost the job, Vince. I was like, oh. I didn't know that at all. It was five months after I did the self-tape. So I was like, oh, that job's gone, unfortunately. But then I got a call back five months later with Sharon and Russell, our casting directors. And they made me do the same thing I did in my first self-tape.

You know, playing him smooth and everything. And then they told me to forget everything I did and play him more nerdy and awkward, which is closer to who I am as a person. So that. made it even you know closer to my skin so yeah what does that say about me that i i look at mr giabate is like

This guy's about as cool as they get. I know, I see him as pretty, the way you play him is pretty damn cool. I mean, like you described it. Are we even nerdier? Is that what it is? I think we might be. No, the way Vince described it when I finally spoke to Vince once I found out I booked. it was I said is there any malice in this guy is there any kind of hidden agenda and Vince said he is a straight shooter he is sincere he's just living his best life all of a sudden he's a kid in a candy store

And I connected with that immediately because I like candy. But I thought, okay, no, it's that excitement. It's that enjoyment of life in his eyes that now he has the opportunity to be the best version of himself. And so...

that's the nerdy side for me because someone who enjoys now flying on an airplane with supermodels and living his best life in a Vegas suite is someone who didn't have that before, you know? And so now he gets to live out these fantasies that... could be seen as sleazy or whatever but for him it's role playing it's like playing you know a role so like going to a comic-con sure he's wearing a costume i mean and everybody's cosplaying in that poker sequence yeah

You know, yeah, he's just living out a fantasy. Yeah. Which I think we talked about that on the on the first episode. And I think we didn't really want to get into Mr. Diabate. But you were talking about the conception of the show. And an early, early idea was this guy and how great it was that he could just do whatever he wanted. I don't know how you feel about that, Vince, but it feels to me that's the DNA of that.

character, the person who does have it all and does whatever they want, is definitely infused into Mr. Diabate, especially as you're playing him. Exactly true. The original idea, going back to... walks I would take around this very building we're recording in. When we were doing Better Call Saul, we'd take these lunches and I'd walk around and I'd think about the beginnings of this, what became this TV show. And this was going back almost 10 years. And I would...

I'd think about a character and he was a male character originally who everyone is inexplicably nice to. And they'd bend over backwards. They do anything for him. And that's really is. That character, that evolved into Mr. Diabate because I was thinking about it and thinking about it, but then I thought, a guy who really enjoys this.

you can't really build a drama around someone who's happy. It just, you can't really build a drama around happiness or can you? Well, maybe if the main character is miserable. And then at about the same time, I was thinking, I love Ray Sehorne. I should.

Make something for her. Why can't it be this thing? Why can't it be the main character be a woman? And it took years to figure all this stuff out. But Mr. Diabonte, I got to say, this was one of the hardest roles to cast. Really? Absolutely. Maybe that's why it took five months. it took months and months and months we saw a lot of actors from all over the world we saw a lot of self-tapes we saw a lot of really talented actors but to a man and they're obviously they're all men

No one else had the innocence you had. Everyone else played it. Some sleazier than others, but there was always a certain element of sleaze. There was a certain element of, well, it's not that they were sleazy guys, but it was a certain element of, okay, this is. Kind of unsamely, but somehow you, the innocence you infuse your Mr. Diabate with is, I don't know how you do it. Cause clearly Mr. Diabate loves the ladies, but, but.

I don't know. I don't know how you pull it off. You make this guy so likable. I don't know. I don't know how you do it. Thank you for saying that. And I can't believe that you saw so many people. And I'm honored, of course, that I got this part because it's a dream come true, like Vera says. I think I've just never been surrounded by supermodels, and so I get giddy naturally. But I think there's a naivete, even though there is maybe an element of desire or sleaze. Right.

in your eyes naturally you know and there's a certain joy to be and i think is really key and i think it's people as they get older tend to harden up you know and i think it's that that thing of that that survival instinct or that need to to be safe or to self-protect and i think you don't have that as an actor as a person and that's what the camera captures you know it's it's the rawness of that moment and i think that the moment that an actor tries to put a mask on and that mask doesn't fit it

feels inauthentic. And that's the reason why we're able to like you while also maybe criticizing you. It's a thin line to walk, you know, because you can so easily be sleazy or, you know, creepy. But, you know, it's that chat I had with you, Vince, that really helped just knowing that this guy doesn't have a bad bone in his body and is just really excited to be here in this new world and is embracing the change.

That he's just like that kid that's just living his best life in fantasy all of a sudden. He doesn't come from opulence and now he has it. So live it up. Enjoying himself. Yeah, he enjoys it without any guilt. And I think that's an important quality and why we like him so much because you're so free. You have an immense capacity to be happy and you don't feel guilty about it. Why? You know, why should you?

Well put, we're a couple of Catholics here. Yeah, you and me. Yeah, just what is that like? Not having guilt. Tell me about that.

Can we talk about shooting in Las Vegas? Oh, God. And not just shooting during like a record summer heat wave. I know that one of those days was 120 degrees. And I know I've got here in the notes that on the second day, it started with night exterior.

It was after midnight, and it was already 103 degrees. Yeah, and the main challenge was that we had to depict... empty vegas right las vegas had to be devoid of humans so in terms of filming in vegas i'm sure everyone who's shot in vegas has perhaps faced a challenge like this but you can't really shut down a casino. No. And we didn't just need empty casino, which we were able to cordon off a section and be really nice to the security who were helping us.

but we also needed to shoot exteriors of empty vegas and that is the actual challenge because vegas is pretty busy 24 7. and so I mean, we can get specific. How did you accomplish that? And as a director, you see that in the script.

What are your first thoughts as far as how are we going to accomplish this? How am I going to shoot this? Well, the funny thing is that I got to Albuquerque and I didn't have much information. And I was just wondering, how are we going to pull off Vegas and Albuquerque? Because that's something that we do. hollywood all the time i've shot la and vancouver you know you name it shot vermont and romania so but

Wow. That sounds like a good one. Yeah, that was definitely challenging. That's actually when you start thinking about architecture and what is quintessentially America, USA, and what's not. so the main challenge was how do we shoot these streets you know how do we get empty streets because she arrives and we need to see the arrival and understand and contextualize it geographically in vegas right

So we ran array plates. How do you describe array plates? 360. Yeah, like cameras, multiple. Multiple cameras, yeah. Like 9 or 12, I think it is. And they take close to a 360 degree.

image of what... they're seeing and so you can use those to then put on screens or replace blue screens but the key thing for us is that we needed to stitch so we needed to run these array plates for as long as possible on the exact path that carol's car was well the police car was going to be going and then later with the help of our vfx team stitch those images together and so meaning that we need enough runs so that if there was

a human in front of a McDonald's then suddenly you need to make sure that you capture enough there so that when you do cut to that shot there's no human in front of the McDonald's. And then because our very last day of shooting for this episode was Carol in the car. And so her arriving, seeing the Westgate sign, seeing all the messages to her and her reactions. So we needed those images on the video boards or the LED screens.

to then be able to have enough of a soft image in the background so you do realistically believe that she's driving a car. So, I mean, I think some of the most tense conversations we had were actually, how do we get MT Vegas? and it was also and it's always a challenging thing to work with a local crew because we brought a lot of the new mexico the albuquerque crew but we also had to figure out how to make this work and of course when you're shooting with

Picture vehicles. You also need police help. The Vegas police was actually very helpful in that sense. They killed it. Yeah. And, you know, we have certain shots that we need. Everything's been storyboarded. But at the same time, you face these challenges because it is doing driving work. Any sort of car work is actually really slow. Yeah. You know who else is great? The Westgate Hotel. Big shout out to the Westgate. That's really what is now known as the Westgate.

used to be the old International Hotel and then the International Hilton. But that, on the top floor of the old International, which is now the Westgate, was where Elvis Presley lived for years. when he was doing his Vegas residency. So we really did shoot, as Mr. Diabate described, we really did shoot in the area that used to be Elvis Presley's.

Bedroom. His bedroom, that's right. They have redone those suites up on the top floor since his time. They are much larger now than they were in Mr. Presley's time. Gordon, this wonderful gentleman who is the classiest guy. You catch a quick glimpse of him in that beautiful shot you got introducing the hotel, the suite. Yeah, Gordon Prouty. He's the VP of... public and community relations at the westgate and gordon gordon's a great guy and he is uh he's a like really classy uh gentleman who

He looks like he just, and in the best way, not in a, it looks like he just stepped out of the movie casino. Oh yeah. He is so, he is so always stylish, always dressed to the nines. and knows the history of the old international, now the Westgate, inside and out, and had all kinds of great Elvis stories. But he was explaining the area where the poker game takes place.

area was elvis's you're right elvis's bedroom also uh apparently this hotel is haunted um yes so mr diabate says it's haunted and that intrigues him and actually We had a few crew members tell us that in the middle of the night, their lights would flicker, TVs would switch on and showers would turn on. Oh my God. I don't know. Showers? Yeah. I don't care for that. And I don't know if it's true, but yeah, apparently it was actually haunted. I don't know if it's by Elvis or just by...

I don't know, disgruntled casino goers. Well, we included an Elvis impersonator also in that first shot. Looks so good. Yeah. I remember getting to that hotel and just... you know it was surreal because i started filming with this episode for me um and it was kind of weird to start with six but um that's right you shot six before you shot your introduction that's right yeah so i was like okay let's get into the show and find out who this character is

But I show up to this Westgate, you know, I'm on a location for a Vince Gilligan show. So I'm all nervous and I'm all like walking around the hotel trying to get a vibe of what it is. And a security guard runs up to me and goes, you're the guy. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, you're the guy. I'm like, oh, great. I'm about to get arrested for something. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, you're the guy. He's like, what? He's like, come with me. So we go outside to one of the entrances.

And a freaking huge poster of me in an Elvis suit is hanging up there. I love it. And I'm like, oh, no, it's already up. And they're like, yeah, you're the guy. What are you doing? Are you a magician or what? And I couldn't say I was on the show. That's amazing. I don't know, but please.

My introduction to you as Mr. Diabate was actually the photo shoot for those photos. We did a photo shoot a week before. And the paintings and all of the set design that we needed featuring you. Was that your first day? And your greatest. So my first day was a day.

in Albuquerque where they dressed me up in all kinds of outfits and we did a photo shoot. And I was like, oh, it's just to introduce a character. And then they started saying that they're going to actually make live paintings of me that are going to be hung up in the suit.

And then they turned these photos into actual posters that are all over the hotel. And Ganja was there. That's where I first met Ganja. And so we were trying to just have fun with this character. And it's the most ridiculous costumes. And then they turn out to be amazing paintings, but...

huge ridiculous paintings of me and of course everyone's like are you gonna take one home i'm like why what am i gonna do with this did you have any pushback from production there's there's two i think like super bold

choices in this. One is having Carol actually shooting that teaser in selfie mode on a camcorder and then also just that bravura shot. leading into the poker game. What an awesome shot. So cool. Yeah. Talk about how you thought of both of those things and the unique challenges that maybe those present. Well, you want it to be experiential, especially the opening, you know, because episode five ends with her.

having gone in and seen something right so we know that it has to feel extremely raw and emotional for her i wanted to do it as a pov or i know as the camera that she is holding so there is that feeling of the experience itself and also not a camera operator trying to mimic the thing that she's doing. I think that the authenticity of having Ray herself be holding that camera brings so much to it.

Because then it's her, you know, I think props are super important in filmmaking and storytelling in general. But then she is holding the camera and then she as a, I mean, she's a. professional in so many ways but as an amateur cinematographer or camera operator that comes across even more so i think and then once i asked vince and he said yes

That's a good idea. Oh, yeah. No, I love it. I love it. I love it. Ray did a really, and with your help, your direction, she did a really nice job because that is her. Shooting herself. Wow. It's like a short film made by Ray Seahorn. Yeah. Yeah. And it's wonderfully done. By the way, this is my Alfred Hitchcock cameo moment. I don't think I've ever been in an episode of Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul or El Camino, nor was I ever in X-Files, I don't think. My brother was. But anyway.

This was my cameo, the severed head that Carol holds up. That's me. That's my head. What? Yeah. Like a mold of your head? It wasn't. In the old days, it would have been a mold. And it was so amazingly painless because I've actually, in high school. I made a mold of my own head to make monster masks out of. My brother helped me do it, except I used regular plaster of Paris that you get at the department store.

instead of the stuff you're supposed to use. I didn't realize that it heats up when it's setting. Oh no. It was bad. Living dangerously. I was living, yeah. But I, so I had that experience and I was like, oh my. Gosh, if they're going to use my head, I don't want to go through that just for this funny bit of, you know, whatever. But Joe Ulibarri, this mad genius of a prop builder and sculptor and just a jack of all trades, really made it easy.

I scanned my head with this crazy device. I used a 3D scanner, a LiDAR scanner. And then he made this head out of a, I think he used a 3D printer or something like that. But it's, it's amazing. It's like it took, it took all of 45 seconds for, you know, we're living in Star Trek times now. It took all the 45 seconds.

For him to walk around me three times pointing this thing in my head and then there's like this perfect likeness in my head. That's amazing. That's you. I hope you kept the head. Joe made me the really cool bust. of myself that I have in my office. I love it. I love it so much. And yeah, the head is somewhere. We got a lot of body parts. Yes. A lot of styrofoam body parts. Oh, my God. And we saved them up. And who knows? Maybe we'll do something fun with them related to the fans.

and that was the other challenge too is that the body parts when they were shrink wrapped they didn't necessarily the first try they didn't look like body parts they kind of just looked like chunky blocky white things and so then between us we figured out that if we inject some blood fake blood into them then at least that's right the blood the contrast of blood plastic and styrofoam

would give us a little bit more of a sense especially under low lighting circumstances and her with that little camera and the directional light that's so smart and it even looked marbled

Like a good steak? Just like you want your steak. Yeah. But in terms of the intro to the party or the intro into Mr. Diabate's fantasy, I think originally it was scripted as... a party a james bond party so that to me obviously inspired the 60s the 1960s and then at some point i thought well then it should be a 60s party for sure

And then at some point it was like, well, maybe it should be filled with impersonators. Who would Mr. Diabate want there? The creme de la creme of Las Vegas, of course. We saw Elvis. I think there was a Bob Dylan. Audrey Hepburn. Audrey Hepburn. Joan Baez. Yeah. Angela Davis, Bruce Lee. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God, right. That was a challenge.

Casting them was a challenge. And a huge shout out to Jennifer Bryan, our costume designer. The best. Yeah, this gave her the opportunity to dress a lot of people in incredible ways. Yeah. I mean incredible. The first time, I think. Jen, Trina and I were all, I think Vera was there too when we first saw the truckloads of clothing arrive. Actually, no, it was already set up. It was set up like a showroom. And we walked on and it was just so incredible.

It's really interesting to think about texture and... uh shapes and the way they interact with light and this is getting nerdy but sequins there's a reason why sequins are are part of that world and building those costumes and making sure that we were able to, in very seconds really, recognize these characters, understand that we're in an elevated reality, and then land on Samba sitting there.

it's just that shot is just I kept telling Vince like what an introduction this is how you introduce like a George Clooney you know Brad Pitt in a movie and then all of a sudden it's like hi it's me it is a movie star introduction and it's unbelievable because you for a minute you're like what is this is a flashback like is this before what is happening and then just landing yeah like you said that movie star shot on you it's so

Dynamic. It's so exciting. It was so much fun to shoot that whole thing. Everyone was amazing. And the scene also playing out in French. That's right. It's all in French. So we had to cast French speaking actors.

And that's a whole other challenge. They have to be gorgeous too. And gorgeous. And they're the sweetest bunch. The first time I met them all was when we shot the hot tub scene. So that was not awkward at all. Was that... The first time? That's the first time I met all our supermodels. Oh, my God. It's like, hi, I'm Samba. Hi, I'm so-and-so. Okay, let's get naked in a hot tub. Oh, my God. Yeah, that was so crazy. But everyone was super professional.

Intimacy coordinator Christine was so sweet in guiding us and making sure we're all respectful. And it was so much more relaxing than I thought it was going to be. But that's where I met everybody. So after that, there were no more borders. Oh my God. I forgot it was done in that order. Wow. Boy, the thing I remember was how little time we had because you only had time for like one or two takes of that. It was.

Boy, you, and you did a great job. Gotcha. Cause it was, I mean, you did a great job period. You, and your, I, you remind me so much of another one of my favorite directors, Michelle McLaren. Okay. You can pull that quote out. You're wonderful compositions, but you were so under the gun.

It was so little time. And I think it was a one-er, too. It was a one-er. It was so little time. But you guys were so relaxed, which I loved. Ganja and just setting up what the shot's about, and then Vince having to explain to everybody what's happening. because they had no idea what the show was about.

And you still came up with a button for the end of that scene, Joette, when Tiapate says Joette. Joette did a great job. That was your idea. That was you on the spot. Well, that was, and that's her real name. Yeah, that was her real name. She was so sweet. She did a great job. Yeah, because it would have been nice for you to have been able to have a little more time to get some coverage.

It was like the scene, no coverage. Well played. And you're prepped for a scene like that, so I'm hearing that you guys... totally under the gun on schedule did you have other shots planned and what's the key or how do you find yourself staying as you just said calm and focused and he didn't even realize that things were so tense yeah so yes we did we had all the more complicated sequences we had storyboarded I think I was working with

Mark Bristol, storyboard artist. But the thing is, I think that storyboarding or shot listing, which I do a lot of, like there's not a single scene. I never go into a shoot without a shot list. I actually have nightmares about doing that. Me too. And I think that the main point of it. that is to actually break down what you need and I also I used to act and I used to edit so those two things the emotional and the technical come together in a really helpful way I never thought that all those

years of cutting some research documentaries and things would actually lead to me understanding what an edit requires. So I can envision the blocks in my mind. Like I have a really. good sense of what we need but because you have a sense of what you need you also understand what's superfluous or what might be just really nice to cut together but for that sequence specifically because I

not only had storyboarded, but I'd also shown it to Vince. And we'd gone through and said, you know what? We don't need this. We don't need that. So it'd been synthesized already. And then when we got to set and we didn't have time, we realized, well, you know what? If we do a one or that.

begins tight on him and starts pulling out then it becomes about the choreography or the dance of where each character is in space and how do we also overcome the challenges of not really showing their bodies because There are restrictions there as well. That's the importance of having an intimacy coordinator. It really is. But in terms of staying calm, some of my best friends are actors and I come from a theater background and dance.

I really care about protecting. I think that one of my jobs is to make sure that actors are at ease. They're not aware of the chaos that production. There's never a production without chaos or some form of it. Different iterations of it, of course. And so for me, it was about keeping all of them. There's already a sensitivity there because there's nudity. but also and you guys meeting for the first time you had and also you starting the production.

and so i always want to make sure that i can shield it's almost like i come in with the shield that's blocking or the flag that's blocking their view of what's happening on the other side because we also were losing light and We didn't have the right, the exact crane we needed. That's what it was. We weren't going to get kicked out. It was that the light was changing out the window because that looked out into an atrium. That's way up on the 30-something, 40th floor.

but it's an open air pool up on the very top floor of this skyscraper yeah well you you absolutely made us feel safe can we quickly talk about john cena This episode has it all, really. Think about it. How did that happen? And was it always John Cena in the script? He just kept calling and calling and begging us. No, he's awesome.

We thought it would be the most cool thing in the world to have. I mean, who do you have explain why the world is taken to cannibalism? Who better than John Cena? As in who better a very friendly? likable fellow that everybody in the world knows who can very matter-of-factly explain why human beings have resorted to cannibalism. Thank God he said yes. We went to Tampa, Florida. Remember that? You want to talk about that?

Oh, yeah. We went to Tampa, Florida on a Friday night to shoot on his day off. And he was such a pro because he had, what, three pages of dialogue of a monologue? Three or four? It was a lot of words. It was a lot. Yeah, and he did an incredible job. I mean, basically one take wonder. Yeah, I think we could have used the first take.

And we figured we came all the way to Tampa, Florida. We might as well have him do it two more times. But he was a pro. He's very pleasant, very professional. And I do remember as he was leaving, he said, well. I can't wait to see this episode when it airs so I know what the hell I was talking about. When we were filming that scene with Carol, when she walks in and I show her the video of the John Cena explaining the HDP.

We didn't have John Cena do it when we were shooting that scene. It was actually Vince. And so it was super meta to do the scene with Rey while Vince is explaining. cannibalism and why it's justified holding up a carton of milk and it was all Vince as Vince right I personally think we should have kept me on that but everyone said no John Cena's So I said, okay, finally, and I gave in. But by the way, as Ganja and Vera are making this thing, I'm sitting back behind them in my little chair.

And having to watch me over and over again up there. There's a reason people pay extra. For people like John Cena and Samba and Ray Sayorn. You did great. It was so fun. We didn't tell you guys though, right? I think we just played it for you. We just played it. And so me and Ray were like giggling as we're trying to be serious listening to this.

end of the world scenario. Vince explaining it in his nice accent. Yeah, you did a great job. Well, as we wrap up, I just wanted to call out, there's one shot that I remember, just an incredible shot of... Mr. Diabate at the window. And then there's that rack through the champagne flute. This is Michelle McLaren type stuff. Just really like incredible. Fantastic. And then we sort of leave this episode.

with Manusos embarking on a journey. Yeah. So the process of TV directing is that you finish your episode. First, you receive your editor's cut, which skip. I mean, I was like, well, I guess there's not much to do. Skip had a great job editing it. I mean, amazing. And so then you finish your director's cut and it gets handed over to the producers. And then sometimes you get a message and sometimes you don't get a message.

In this case, I got an email from Vince, which with your permission, I might one day print very large and frame. But specifically because you mentioned Minusos. You talked about the persnickety concept of what he's doing, going through every radio wave, trying to find some sign of life.

And that's something that I thought about a lot and try to figure out how do you visualize that without making it boring? And it's also the end. It's a completion of a process when you finally realize, all right, well, there's this one sound. I don't even know what that sounds actually like now. Yeah, because as we're recording this, we've been keeping these things so under wraps, and you've been so busy globetrotting around, making wonderful work.

in every continent of the world it sounds like so yeah you haven't heard this thing yet it's really it's an awesome sound effect that our uh sound team came up with and i think actually dave porter helped create it or created it yeah dave porter our composer created it it's really cool

Yeah, you're going to like it. And Vesco is just so amazing. I mean, his silent... brooding action hero master brooder yeah and and there's so much i mean there's so much going on behind those eyes and he maybe he whispers one word or something but Yeah, it was just really exciting to film the beginning of that journey.

Yeah, it's really exciting. And I'm excited for everybody to see what happens next week. But thank you all for coming in on a Sunday. We've been at this. The sun is going down right now. We're experiencing the sunset on the podcast recording as well. Yeah. Thank you all for coming. And thanks for listening, everybody. Thanks for having us. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you so much to Samba Shoot, Ganja Montero, Vera Blasi, and Vince Gilligan. And thank you for listening.

to Pluribus, the official podcast, an Apple TV podcast produced by Highbridge Productions and Sony Pictures Television. Be sure to follow on Apple Podcasts to get the next episode in your feed. including those bonus episodes, and Watch Pluribus on Apple TV, where available. Our editor and mixer is Nicholas Tsai. Theme music by Dave Porter.

Associate producers are Alana Hoffman, Justin Verbeest, and Nicholas Tsai. Executive producers are Jen Carroll and me, your host, Chris McCaleb. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts.