Spike Lee / "BlacKkKlansman"

I'm not, I'm not. I'm just checking, just checking. If anything. Maybe I'm a bravest fan from my youth. But uh yeah, that was a bummer. Sorry. I know you were up there. Did you have a good time at least have some drinks or something. I don't know, there's nothing good about Yes, yeah, I understand. Well I appreciate you doing this. Man, no problem. We're already up and running, so I'm gonna dive in. We're here in the People's Republic of Brooklyn. Yes, here

was Spike Lee in the house. Yes, I'm so. This is the coolest production company I've ever been to. Man, I love all the stuff you got on the Walls Museum. It's great, like I could just hang out here. I'm looking around as I'm talking, so it's lovely. Thank you for here, No, thank you for coming, they for coming to the People's Republic of Brooklyn, New York. I was finally able to get out of the city, which was nice. I haven't been out of there the whole week. So anyway,

here we are. Uh, you know, I was. I did the math. You're you're incredibly prolific, obviously, and I did the math. In the last thirty three years, only nine years have we not had a Spike Lee joint, which you don't want to feature film, feature film, I mean obviously doing all kinds of other stuff, commercials. Yeah, but what keeps you going at that rate? That's my first question. Well, from the very big thank you to the question every beginning that the goal was the bill of a body

of work. I don't want to not want to be one of these flash in the pan where they now that type of thing, because I've always felt that to really a praise somebody's work, it can't be if they only did one album, one film, one play, one novel. I want to see you know what they did over a span of time. So that's that was the goal from the beginning, even in film school. That's that's where that that's what that was the mindset. So you think in terms of legacy, for sure, I wouldn't use that word.

I like that you that you may use that word, but I see its body of work. Body of work. Are there any like did you did you model yourself after anything in that way? Was there were there any artists filmmakers that you look and you say, wow, that the body that that person left behind. Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Michael Jackson, Prince, you know, they they I was born fifty seven, they were born the eight so they had a head start on me. But you know, God blessed

their souls. But James Brown, Yeah, I mean those are the people, you know, James Ball, went, Tony Morrison, those you know, those are my pantheon in sports, Jordan Ali, Willie Mays. Those that's that's my my, my, my pantheon. We can put Spike Lee in there too. I think you take vacations though, Man, do you have any down I just came from I was in a this this past Columbus christiph Columbus terrorists, Holiday Day, Holliday terrorist? What was the Mamas venue? So I was in Boston the

game too, came back. Yes, they barely made it in time for for the fiasco last night and I left at the bottom, the fifth in it. So I left. It was ten one, so I went to bed, I had to beer, went to bed. And then when I woke up this morning, I saw the final score was six? Can we cursing us one? What the fuck? I didn't know that was happening. Man. I got home and I was like, well, I know Spike was at the game. I'll meet you. Oh man, he's not gonna be happy tomorrow.

That was That was brutal then and then and it happened against the Red Sox makes even worse. So tonight's do would die? You would die in the Bronx? Good luck? Man. I have a bunch of questions, but let's dive into Black Clansman first. And I took this film to can You want the Grand Prix there? And I just want to know what your experience was like over there? And

can Oh what was amazing. I've always had a good, a great time in can and and and even what happened in nine do the right thing that was on the jury that was not on my I mean the jury, the reception there, the way that people received the film. So I've always had exquisite time and can congratulations on that prize. Man, that was great. We're pulling for you. You uh you know late last year you signed on

to this project and went into production. It was in the wake of the Charlottesville Unite the Right rally I believe, which was August, and then we reported it in September. Anyway, you were already on I guess see what happened was it gave me the timeline and elation of the reception. I got everything out of whack, and it is my fault because I got it mixed up. We didn't start

shooting until after Charlottesville. That was August twelve. We didn't start to miss September, and can I got I said, I made a mistake that said that, uh we started shooting before August twelve, that that was wrong? Right? Well, did had you signed on to the project after Charlotte? Oh yeah, we're in pre production. Okay, when four we have pre production? Because what I wanted to ask was if that spurred you to want to do this project.

But I guess no, no, no, no, we preproduction when I happened, well when that fact, that was a month venue when that happened. Yeah, but when that obviously the film builds to an epilogue centered on that a little bit. Um, just when that happened in the middle of the pre production, how did that kind of shift you're thinking about this project? I knew I had ended. Yeah, I knew that David Duke, Agent Orange, all right, the Clan Neil motherfucking Nazis had

written me ending. But again at the expense of a human life. Yeah, the air its just went on eighty degrees here in New York. Um global the global warming, which ahe Oren says is a hoax, It's a myth. That motherfucker. You read the story in the New York Times. I guess then the other day about how what happened, we're pretty much done. Oh yeah, we got what eight is or something, and saying there is no joke. This

is this is we're talking about the planet. This is God's planet as we know it, and this is no joke. I mean, scientists from all over the world has said this. I think he might have put up by a you in and that's it's not b s. It's not a hoax, it's not fake. We're in perible. Yeah, and this motherfucker says, there's notice such thing as global warming. That's the kind of is that the kind of thing that's ever like you ever thought about putting something about that into your work,

Never really seen anything like that. Really, you're talking about global warm and do the right thing? Well true in a way that everybody's hot. They that's true, that's true. We had the crystop ball on global warm, the cornerment on the Three Cornman. I'll bring this up often when I go to film festivals. I know I gotta do a lot of press m hm. And it's particularly when you're an African American. Somehow maybe it's issue. Was a spokesperson of for you know, African Americans. And I've never

ever tried to put myself in that place. Have always said any pain, I've said, I'm not speaking to behalf anybody but myself. But I knew going to con this made the question would come up, what's happening? I mean, anytime I go around the world now, people look at me, say Spike what's happening in your country, And it's not just if we want to break it down, this stuff is happening not justly. This guy is running Who's who just is going to be in a runoff for Brazil.

This guy's bad as Agent Orange. And so we've seen a rise the right all across this world. So it's not just the United States America. But anyway, I knew I'll be asked to give my state of whatever they might want to call it, and so I took the novel approach of you know what, let me come with the film title that may be best described, you know what I think it is, and and that there much thought. I came upon Peter Wells film, Peter Weir's film, Peter

Weir's film, very good film, The year Living Dangerously. That's where we are. I go to bed every night thinking about Agent Orange has nuclear code. You guys, you actually get to sleep thinking about that. But I keeps you awake a little bit. I mean, he has, and I've seen the football. I gave my wife an ITALI gave over benefit for President Barack Obama the second for his second term, and his car was parked in front of my house. And I still the guy in the back

with the football. The football will being act case that president, I think, and I don't know what exactly, but it has to be very close to when leaves the White House. So it wasn't. It was parked in front of my house and they let me. I mean, I knew who I was. Is it my house? So the guy let me go up to the window and I saw that thing. So I ad a nightmare that night. And that's even with Obama, so you know, so you know, I'm tass and turning out and I heard about this this myth

Oh that's uh. The football is reel as a motherfucker. He's right there behind him, right there, and I saw my own eyes. So hopefully they gained the wrong code. Hopefully game the code one two four. It's like a spaceball's briefcase code. Oh my god. So again going back to the Peter Wheels, Peter Weir's title, do You Living Dangerly? That's where it And then with Cavanaugh, now, oh my god, And I forgot who who said? I read it somewhere

but someone wrote I forgot who was that. The United States has not been this divided since the Civil War. That's going way back now. You might say the Vietnam War, Yes, that that was there was a war. Home to about what we're doing in Vietnam. We should not have been there. But it's crazy time now, absolutely absolute insanity. We're going back to Black Klansman. I wanted to ask you what what did you make of the real run star Worth,

straight up god doing his job, doing what's right. Very dangerous, undertaken and you know, we might laugh at the clan and their imbecle stuff like that, but there there they did, you know, yeah, you know they have a history killing people. So you know, I was I was very, very pleased to meet him, and he was very instrumental the walking John David threw what he did as he became the

first African American police officer in Colorado Springs. Yeah, had David John David on the show a couple of months ago. I love that guy. Yeah, I mean, was he the guy for the role from the beginning. There was from the beginning, there was no audition, no reading. I just offer him them part. I knew we could do it just because you know the guy, I mean still was about them Max. He's one of the kids and says,

my name is Malcolm Mix. But being that the son of Pauletta and Denzel Washington, no one his parents, his family, his work, ethic. He went to Morehouse College where I went played football there. He And there's another thing is that a lot of times you know people talk, well, that's cliche, last cliche. The reason why things become cliches because it was based on the truth from at the very beginning. And so when you when you might say that the fruit doesn't fall fall from the tree, that's

not that's not a cliche with John David Washington, Mr Truth. Yeah, he's going places. Man. I don't know if you've addressed this. I don't know if you care to um, But you know I asked about Ron because filmmaker Boots Riley had some strong nuss You don't want to talk about that is there is there's no dialogue to have there at all, not for me? No, all right, then I want to branch out a little bit um some of the filmography like yours. We can sit here all day and just

just a day and night and stuff. Man, But do you look back much? Do you re review your work? Yes? This past Friday was eight and the anniversary of Bamboozlo. So I'm a tenure professor of filming and y U y Went Angley and I are classmates. Angry Earnest Dick is not all classmates, lusters class of night two. So in class, we're gonna show bamboozl and Ellen Cures, the Great DP is going to be our guest speaker. That's great, So we'll give out the script. I haven't seen it

in a while. But one of the blessings of the success of IM say this, sir, one of the blessings of success of Black Class is that there's been like a re evaluation. So I've been, you know, reading stuff and people going back and look at films that they dismissed or they never saw. One will be Bambooze, will be twenty begin on the bus, I'll be It'll be Shyraq,

will be a miracle, Helenana. So that's that's that's been nice for some people to you know, reevaluate their initial Yeah, seeing everybody's ranking your films again, Well, what's Spike Lee's favorite Spike Lee phone mm hmm is the next one? Probably huh my next one. But we saw Boozled in film school would North Carolina School of the Arts Blew me Away, Blew me Away. I love that film. Uh. I want to talk about aesthetics to particularly the use of color. I always talked about use of color when

I'm speaking to filmmakers. Interesting to me, you started your career with black and white, but she's gotta have it, and then color became such an important part of the palette with your your process. The reason why it was black and white because a John Darts film Breathless was such a big influence the editing, the sinematography. So that's why Ernest tickets and I chose to do that. First film with black also was cheaper too, backed into we're shooting,

you know, reversal films, it was cheaper. What does color means to you? And when you when you're embarking on a new project pre production, setting out the palette, what it means. I don't go and think it just had to be colorful. For me, the script tells us everything. So, for example, color films that were very important color due the right thing. We wanted to show the heat, the musical aspects of school days and Malcolm X. You look at the old MGM three strips I mean, no was

the priest, but that type of technicolor. And then if we look at the latest film, Ah, we wanted to this film look like the other seventy films. I grow with French Connection Doll the afternoon. That's why we shot it on on the film um. And also you know the classic shot, the Spike Lee Dollar shot. I mean, when when did that first hit you as an image of impact that you would well. We first we did on Bamboozel was scene where my character Giant is Ernest Dickerson.

First I look talk Ernest Dickerson. Ernest Dickerson and I entered and YU together and we boughted right away. Because he also went to a historically black school. He went to Howard University. I went to Morehouse, so they weren't that many of us there. We boughted. Ernest was his best DP in the school. So ernestow all my films and YU then in U in a Row, She's gonna have his school days, do the right thing. Mobile of Blues, Jungle FEVERA, then Malcolm X, and after Malcolm X, he

went on to direct Tupac and Juice. So Ernest came into film school. I want to be directed, but he knew that it was such a good DP. He felt that, you know, if I keep that eventually could lead me being a DP, you know, being a director. So you know, it's this vibe and you know, and and we have to service the film. What is the was the music, the cinematography, the editing, production design, custom design. Everybody has to use their skills. The best service to film that's

always been, uh, the marching orders? Does that shot? I mean you're you repeated obviously? Does it mean something different? Do you every time you use? Oh? Yeah, So again getting back to your question, when Ernest and I did the first time, and also like to say, no way in the world did we ever say that we invented that shot that's been done before, so as a shot where I had to walk down the blog and Ernest

and Ida, we know, let's have some fun. So the early the early uses of that shot was really just you know, being film school geeks. But then Ernst and I said, decide, you know what, just we really we can't make light of this, this shot, the double dollar shot we're talking about, so from now on and his utilization has to really have impact. So the first term weal did that, which is probably one of the best uses was in Malcolm X. The backstory the late grade.

Dr ben sha Bass, Malcolm's went on, told me that she felt that Malcolm knew who's going to be assassinated and they want to be a martyr. So once Dr Sabass told me that, I said, How'm I gonna try to show this emotion on his face? Knowing that what his widow just told me, He's going his own execution. So that's where we came up with that use. And another great use is the most is the most recent film Black. Yeah, one of the my favorite uses of it. Actually, yeah,

I mean that film I wanted to talk about. It's considered by many and I agree, yeah, and just particularly one of the best films of that decade. Frankly, I think it. Yeah, we had no love though at the time I was there with you though, man's not appreciate it. But here's here's the thing. It was, it was so funked up ab out that because we were in uh

you know, we were jammed up. The film came out during the awards season and limited release and so the deal is this, you know, they adn't tried it was. It was obvious. You know, they say, look and we get we get critical great critical response. If we get you know, up best year, I mean best best film the year, you know, in a list some nominations, then well when't then we'll push it out. But we don't get that. It's like Audios Saranaravita thing, and that's what happened.

And it's a shame. But again there's another one of those films that emerged after the film was released, and people, really, I mean a lot of people still. I think, you know, there's people to stop. I don't even know these what people are stopped Miss Street and say they love you know, it's not just because I really don't tell me why, but they said, you know that they just love, you know, love that film. I think for I mean for me, it's a definitive depiction of whatever we were all feeling.

And there's just incredible majesty to it. What I wanted to ask you was what did you feel when you were making it? I was feeling like most New Yorkers, like we have been punched in the stomach, hit overhead with with the Wii made Louisville. I think we hold wait wait, Louis Willie made use aderondic bats, so I thought Louisville slug. But anyway, but at the same time, we're down, but we know this is we're motherfucking New Yorkers, so they're gonna take more than that that, you know,

keep us down. So it's very very fighting spirit. Leave out Julianni being the motherfucking America's mayor lead. Actually it out, but there was I think New Yorkers were unified, and uh, here's the thing. A lot of peop don't know. David Bennioff wrote the novel. The novel was written before, so it was my idea. I suggested to David, look, you got to rewrite the script and make a post nine eleven.

And also that very famous scene, one of the most famous scenes in the film were Edward Norton in the mirror. That wasn't that scene was in the novel, but it wasn't in the script. So I said, when I once to read the novel, I said, David, how comes not in the script because I don't know, I don't. I'll just shoot that said, don't worry about that. That's my problem. So that was the performances Edward Norton was Dario Barry

Pepper killed it. That's the thing. I think people the people like me, and I was like, if it's going to get a nomination, hopefully that's it. Because he was so good. I mean, Brian Cox, even Tony Siragosa, you know, it was Philip see the Lake, great Philipsy Hoffman. You know, I wanted to ask you about him, any thoughts that come to mind? I mean, for the thing that crushes me about that. I always ask people about Hoffman whenever that have worked with him on there on the show.

You know, we lost him in his prime. We had so many more performances to get out of him. You know, he had so much more to give. He is a thing though. I mean, that's a long list for people who you know, left way too soon. He was a very private person, and uh what I remember a lot of bottoms of you know that year we had a softball team and we were killing everybody. We will play the movies and stuff like that. Barrant Pepper is a great athlete baseball, hockey, I mean he I mean, he's

he could played professional sports. I mean, that's how good he is. And we were a kid. You know we were kids, Philip, Yeah, so you know, kind of chubby. You know we've seen running around. It was all good in spirit, but beautiful soul and men. I I mean I didn't know, you know, what was going on. I mean, people you know, come to work, do their job and when they go home and that's their own personal business. But I never saw any nothing like that. There was

There was no clues. I mean I was shocked. Other people knew, you know that a close him, but I had no idea. Yeah, and something else about that film that I love you closed it with the fuse the Springsteen song, which is my favorite song from The Rising. Well, here's here's the situation. One of my produced over the years is John Killick. We started first working on Do the Right Thing and hit John and Bruiser really tight, very close, and the US is also my favorite song

from the album. Again an album that's really about post. So I I said, Johnny got this idea. I want Terrence Blanchett to write orchestral arrangement to go under Brust's song. So John asked Bruce. Bruce said fine, So we recorded it full orchestra R and then well, so we need to Boost, you know, approval. So John I think he

flew to Spain. Boost is on tour, and I guess during sound check he just put put the headphones on Boost putting the headphones and John play did and Bruce started nine his head this John Town, this John Tyne. What happened? And they said, Springs said great, and that was it. That's awesome. I love that you did that. I saw that Broadway show just the other night. Aparently

it was amazing. Uh. And then you know, last year he came out with the She's got to have a TV show you've been working on Right now, we're downstairs doing a finish and finishing touches on editing for the second season. I want to know where it's coming out. I was curious if there's any other film from your filmography that you think could benefit from a deeper, longer exploration like that. I tell it's not gonna do the right thing. You know why you do it? Serious? Not

do the right thing is untouchable. I agree. Not not working with that, it's that's it. That's where it's gonna be forever. And next June three will be the third anniversary of people forget this, who do the right thing, and Batman came out the same day. The timok the same day. Kim Basinger has something to say about it at the Oscars. Yes, yes, I love the Kim because when she said that, I was shocked because no one

knew she's gonna, you know, do the adlet. But here here's the thing about awards, and and I'm not when you're a filmmaker, you know, you grew up. You know, first of all, you watched the Cammy Awards, even when I would do even before I want to be a filmmak. I love film song and mean I watched the Cammy Awards, you know, and everybody has there, you know who didn't

want to win stuff like that. But after what happened, do the right thing, I just had to let it go and and just be at peace with knowing that the good, the great work, it's gonna outlast, you know, awards, and you know people, you know, people are still shocked this day that that Driving is daisy One best picture Driving his Days is not in the Library of Congress, you know, it's it's who's watching that film now? So

you know, I'm at peace with that. And so we're going back to that thought, though, is there anything else that you would you know, obviously not do the right thing, but is there any other film that you think what you want to do? Is that School Day is gonna be a Broadway musical? Well that makes a lot of sense. And people tell me that the week he came out back, so Vincent and get to at Okay, cool, you'll be a school Days will be a Broadway musical. Can you

talk about night Watch at all? Something you got coming up? Marvel property, not that that was. It never happened, It's not gonna happen. I never said it was. Really. Look, I'm not against doing a Marvel Combay, I grew up. I didn't like DC commics growing up a little Marvel. Yeah, so I'm not against that. But well, I really don't like to talk about stuff that that if maybe because I in my history I found that when I talked about it, if what happens to work doesn't happen. So

rather just I hear you. Then let's talk in the abstract the superhero genre, which is a genre. Now, Uh, what would you want to add to that? If you were to be involved with the superhero project, I could put my flavor on it. You know, it's what I do. So whatever it is that is, you know, that will have that flavor on it. He talked about Black Panther at Re Rebeca. I wanted to just talk about that as well. Uh now as a game changer. Yeah, Willas listen, now,

is it seven or eight? Domestically It's no, No, all time I'm not sure about all time. Domestically is what blows my mind? Seven dred million dollars third all time? Like, no, what blows my mind is I think what's more importantly is international because for years studios have said one one of the reasons why black filmmakers not been able to

get the budgets. Oh yeah, the falsehood because okay, let me let me say, let me say one of don't one reason why several times not to be able to get the budgets I needed because they always go to line item foreign and they would say to my face, well, you know very you know, they would be diplomatic about it, but basically saying black films don't make money overseas. Right, So will Denzel sam Jackson put that shi away. It

became a new one. Well, you have to have a black star because that's what that's how they that's how they get you. They say, wow, boom bom boom. Foreign. So if you have a low number and in the form line item that's an affect your overall budget, well hopefully that's over now. Well they're still gonna try to say, but I will say I was. I want to call that bullshit. Bullshit, Yeah, bullshit. That movie is left a crater for sure. So yeah, well, what do you want

to do next? Man? I mean just in general, like what what what's unexplored? And you've done? You want to do a musical? You don't want to do musical. There's just so many things that I like to do. Hopefully do we'll do My boys been inspired by longevity of filmmakers like Fellini and Chris Sour who still doing great work in their eighties. So I just turned sixty one, So I got another I got I got good No twenty years and you look for you, I mean, God,

God willing Well. Uh, I love the movie, dude, Thank you, and also thank you. I want to appreciate you. You have a great show. M hmm. People listen, people dig what you're doing. Thank you, Thank you making the trip of course, the Republic, and you know this is a pleasure. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna walk you around really quick. All right, please, all right, let's do it.