Kevin Feige / Marvel Studios

year to date. So sit tight, this is playback. I think we're good to go. You don't like about a podcast, but no cameras? Cameras same, I hate it when they put they try to make this video. Although I listened to your excellent interview with our friend Ryan Coogler and you said something like, you know, it's great no cameras, because he was he likes podcasts too, right, And then I heard on the podcast, oh, well, we do shoot some quick skills and when there's a camera this, who

will allow it? Yeah yeah, yeah, But they're always trying to get me to turn this into video. And I'm like, no, smart, you can get a better conversation. You're totally right anyway, And here we are. I'm here today with the president of Marvel, Marvel Studios and obviously producer of Black Panther and everything coming out of the Marvel Factory these days. Kevin Faggy, thank you so much of course for taking the time. Thank you sit down with me to day. I know you moved some stuff to be here and

I really appreciate you. Problem um you know, I was super interested in having you be this guest because this is my one hundred episode. Thank you, thank you so milestone for us, the last episode of the year, and you guys are in a big milestone year as well.

Ten years for Marvel Studios, twenty movies. Uh you know, your biggest financial successes stateside with Black Panther and Avengers Infinity War obviously, also tons of Oscar buzz for Black Panther, well deserved, most critically acclaimed movie to come out of the Marvel Factory so far. I mean, just all these like huge benchmarks. I was like, it's got to be Kevin, and I'm so glad that we were able to do it.

So thank you, thank you, um so. And also the loss of the grandfather of all of this Stanley who passed recently as well. So it's just you know, we're coming to the end of this first era of Marvel Studio. So let me just kind of start there. I'm gonna go back because I'd love to talk about some of your early career stuff. But how does it just kind of the hindsight feel like to you right now when you look back at what's at what's happened the last ten years, it's, uh, it's surreal. I mean it's on

one uh, in one way, it's incredibly satisfying. In the other way, it's it's nearly unbelievable from where we started. And uh, and that the tenth anniversary now culminates, as you mentioned, twenty films in with our best year yet. There were days when I wasn't sure we'd be able to deliver get Iron Man in theaters. There are days when I thought Avengers One was a pipe dream, and their days after Avengers One where I thought, well, where do we go? How do we how do we keep

this going? And to have our most successful year yet be our tenth anniversary years pretty it is pretty amazing. It's storybook In some way, it feels just like it's just an interesting thing. And I just wanted to say this number two because I did the research and hopefully I did my math right. These movies have made collectively

over seventeen billion dollars worldwide. I mean this is to me, if you don't mind me saying, I kind of feel like you're the most important key figure in the film business right now because of what this company is doing and the business model you've laid out. Uh, it was radical, but also something that like fans were dying to see was all of these characters come together right for sure? And I think it's what number one. Thank you. Number two.

There are a lot of people both here and across the industry here at this studio, were on the Disney lot right now within the Marvel Studios offices where we are now, um that that are all equally responsible and and and our filmmakers, many of whom you've spoken to on this very podcast, who make it what it is. Yeah, And I love talking to them because they're all to a person, they have their unique styles and and we're

gonna get into some of that later. But first I want to go all the way back film school at USC That is, way back I went to USC for grad school for journalism. I went to film school back in North Carolina. What what? What did you want out of film school? Did you go in wanting to be a director? Did you was producing kind of the thing you were aiming for? What? Did? What did you? I didn't? I wanted to. I think everybody goes and wanting to

be a director. Yeah, maybe that's not true, but I think it is, and I think and I remember there there were the few people you'd meet who wanted to be who would say. People would say, I want to be director. I want to be director. I want to be George Lucas, I want to be Steven Spielberg, I want to be Robert Zamakis. I want to be Ron Howard. I want to be John Singleton. Those were the people, Those were the big names when I was going to USC and before I went to UC and why I

wanted to go to USC, but I always was. I admired the few people who would say, I want to be an editor, Brian want to go into sound design, because they all were hyper focused and all did and succeeded, as opposed to not everybody who says they want to be a director. But what I really wanted to be was just involved creatively in movies. That's what I wanted to be. So from my earliest days at SC, I

was excited. Even before I got into the film school, which I didn't get into for two and a half years, uh until my junior year at SC, I was just excited to be a p A on student films. I was excited to be a part of it in any way I could. Where did that stem from, Like what's earliest kind of memories of film and being drawn to film and and wanting to be a part of the movie business. Like what was lighting that spark? I think it's just early experiences of going to movies and being

transported by movies. Um Pete Dragon was the first film I ever went to see and it was a fun event and we drove there. My mother drove me to the first time we were going to see a movie just for me, just because it was it was a kids film that I could go see. And we missed the showing. This was before obviously long before uh buying

tickets on your phone and getting reserving your seat. You go to the theater and you even we either had missed the showtime or something, and I was quite sad about it, but we decided, now we're gonna go home. We're gonna make a tuna fish sandwich and put in tinfoil and then drive back to the to the later showing. And it was probably don't remember exactly, it was probably later than I was usually out of the house at that time. And uh, I love the movie and the

kid was riding on a cartoon dragon. It was pretty

much pretty cool. Um. And then of course getting into films that even transcended the theater like Star Wars, uh, where I would buy the toys and I would play with them in my backyard and I would make up my own stories um or Dick Donner's Superman film um or the Back to the Future films, These films that would transport me during the experience of watching the movie, but also I would they would they would come home with me, and I would continue to think about them

and can continue to analyze them. And I always loved movies that rewarded you the more you watch them. Yeah. Well, speaking of Donner, there you I believe the kind of door opening for you into the business. Was working with Lauren Shuler Donner and was in movies like You've Got Mail, and you worked on one of my favorite guilty pleasure movies, frankly Volcano. Oh my goodness. Yes, I'm such a fan

of Volcano. I mean, when I first came to l A, my eyes were wide open in a way because like, Volcano is like an l A like tour in a way. So I'm just like, that was from that's from Volcano. Anyway, You're the first person ever to tell me, I imagine, So tell me a story about Volcano. I'd love to hear anything that comes to most. Volcano was great, I was.

I got into the film school my second semester junior year, and I noticed within the first few weeks that the smart people were getting internships, and we're interning going to work for free at the time, at at companies, and a lot of them were working at places I'd never heard of. And I thought, well, I I want to I want to do that. I want to go I'm happy to go work for for free, but I want to do it for for a for a place I knew.

And I went up into the old which is no longer there George Lucas Building at SC where they posted again this is pre internet, posted literally on a bulletin board UM available internships, and I saw a one that said Donna Schuler Donner Productions, and I this was the director of Superman. I couldn't believe it. UM, and was lucky enough to get that, to get that internship. And I was there for a very long time for a year or so as an intern for summers or receptionist.

And then my final semester at sc I will I worked there part time as a as a p A and then very uh, I was very lucky that Lauren hired me to be her assistant. And there was a lot of sitting at a desk, and I'm not good at sitting at a desk. UM. But within about I think five four or five months of of my the beginning of me working there full time, Laura Ziskin, who ran I want to say Fox two thousand at the time,

UH called Lauren said I have this movie Volcano. There's a new young producer named Neil Moritz, and I want a more experienced producer to come in and and how about as well? That ended up being Volcano, And within a day I'm suddenly in a production office on the twentieth Century Lot, not knowing anything about really how to U how to uh assistant producer on a on a

movie Trial by Fire. Yeah, and it was great. Uh. I always say it was a very very fun movie to make, and maybe not quite as fun a movie to watch, but I appreciate that you uh, then you go for it. I'm a fan. We rebuilt in torrent in an old parking lot. I can't remember. It was some some big industrial parking lot in Torrance, California. They rebuilt that section of Wilshire Boulevard that the lava comes

out of. So it was an entire replica, almost full scale replica from Fairfax Too, Librey or whatever it was um with the tar pits, with what is now becoming the Academy Museum, with the Peterson Automotive Museum, all there in a parking lot in Torrance, night after night after night. I always just thought they had somehow filmed that Nope there that it was really it was really fun to work on. And of course years later you remember the

star of that film, time Only Jones. Another star of that film a young Don Cheetle, both of whom I was lucky enough to go on to to work with. In Marvel Films, and both of whom upon first meeting, I went, you know, we we've actually worked together before. Oh yeah, well what Volcano? Then you gotta bring up Volcano? Yeah? That one. No, I like it. Man, it's better than

Dante's Peak. That was the big, big race. Uh. Speaking about Lauren Shuler Donner, I'm I'm reminded now Jeff John's work started working Jeff and I. Jeff and I were either interns together or I was a receptionist and he became an intern. But I was Laurence assistant. He was Dick's assistant at the same time. That's fascinating. Um, well, you know, just to skip ahead of bit, then you go to Marvel. Uh. In two thousand, I think you

get hired at Marvel. Lauren was a producer on X Men, and I had done Volcano with her and You've Got Mail with her, both great movies, great experience of movies. And You've Got Man was a very good movie. Um, but not the movies I had dreamed of of making. Really, I had just dreamed of being a part of the movie. So I had succeeded in my dream at that point because I was there, Uh, making those films and and and even getting to uh to work with nor Ephron

Uh was was astounding and amazing. But she had a script that I was interested in, and I started working on and doing notes on, and that was what became the first X Men film. So I worked on that. She made me an associate producer on that film and worked on it, I think for about three years. It sort of went up and down um a few times

before it actually came together. And it was during that time that I got to know Avia Rod, who was a producer on the film and who at the time ran what was what was sometimes called Marvel Media, sometimes called Marvel Films, and sometimes called Marvel Studios. This is back in the sin Escape magazine days as well. I'm reading in the back of sin Escape Magazine, like do Gray Scott's gonna play Wolverine? And obviously but yeah, yeah,

well very very exciting time. I mean, you you come in, you start with X Men, and then Spider Man is not long after that. I mean, I'm in film school during these movies, and when Spider Man opens to a hundred and fourteen million or whatever it was, it was a huge deal. And I remember it was something we were all talking about. What I wanted to ask you, though, was you know what did you start to realize that early about the potential of these properties in the marketplace.

I didn't think about the marketplace too much, but I did think about the potential for the stories I did. I did uh read comics when I was a kid, but I was really much more of a movie goer and a movie fan. So when we were working on X Men and Studio would have notes or in the brain trust as it was called, sitting in a room with the director and the other producers and the writer um trying to find solutions to two ideas that we

were struggling with in the script. I would always go dig through the books and always find answers, and always find something that was frankly amazing. I can't think of a particular example by it. I learned early on that the richness of character, or the complexity of storytelling, or the multiple dynamics you want in a in a protagonist or an antagonists are there in the books. They're there, and it seems I would hope that seems kind of

a dumb observation or an obvious one. Trust me, it was not obvious too many people, uh working on those films at the time. Now about just the progression of those early movies before the Marvel Studios of it all. You know, you go on, There's There's Daredevil, There's Wholk and Fantastic four. I mean, what lessons were you kind of personally learning about this? I was talking about this the other day with somebody I remember who, but it

really is. I think in a million years nobody would actively plan to build a studio the way Marvel Studios was built. But in hindsight, it was remarkably effective and very perfect because we got to work at almost every studio in town except Warner Brothers because they have DC and Disney. Those were the only two I had worked at.

Warner Brothers with the Donners um, but Warners and Disney were the only studios that that I didn't work with every other studio we developed or produced films with, So we got to see the inner workings at the upper levels of almost every studio in town and really got to learn amazing lessons from the inside. Ways that you know, we thought were good, um examples of how to make a movie, perhaps ways that we're not as good um

to make a movie. So when we ended up taking advantage of UH the the pre two thousand and eight market crash and got financing from Mary Lynch which v Rod and David Mazell put together UM and got a half a billion dollars in financing for ten characters that Marvel did not put money into this venture, but they put the film rights to characters on the line. UH. I was very excited because at that point I was

very very ready to have the creative authority. We weren't sure we could do it, but we were sure that we had learned enough good ways bad ways ways that we thought, finally, let's go with our own instincts how to make it. What was the specific like vision instinct that you what, what was it that was driving you saying you were ready to jump in and do this?

Well there, I mean there were very very very positive experiences and those in those call it five years leading up to us UH become our own studio, where there

were great examples. You look at some of the movies made in that in that period, the first two X Men films, the first few UH Sam Rami Spiderman films, amazing films with amazing filmmakers that just being in a room with Sam Raimi and watching him put a movie together was the best film school that I ever that I've ever had, watching Amy Pascal running um uh sony then and how and how great decisions can be made and how trust and filmmakers can pay off on the

foot end of that. And I'm not going to be specific, but you can see movies made in that period that

we're not as good as the other ones. And there were reasons for that as well, and it often came down to simply, in my opinion, not trusting the source material, or not trusting the audience, or or being fearful of the worst version because and I'm sure this is true of any story from any source material, but certainly if you don't if you don't do it well, some of these characters can come off as goofy in a movie,

or some of these concepts could come off as silly. Um. The trick is to do them well, but not be but not be fearful about it. And so when we when we started putting Iron Man one together, and Jon Favreau obviously very much believed in this and is a master, a tonal master at at um being able to achieve UM a balance of of of pathos and humor and action. Uh. At every turn, we we just did what we thought would we could do well, what we thought could be cool.

Well you when whenever, yeah, when when the whole thing starts to come together, you have an Incredible Hulk and Iron Man in two thousand and eight. I mean this is ten years ago. What I'm curious about is you know where things are at now versus what your vision going forward was then? Like how did things change? How? Because I imagine you come into it with a certain idea, a certain road map of where you'd like to take this.

This what's going to be a huge overarching story. But anything profoundly different now from what you set out to do at that time. Uh, it is. It has simply

succeeded beyond our our wildest dreams. The dream, as I had said earlier, was getting Iron Man in The Incredible Hulk into theaters, going from being fully responsible for zero movies a year too, fully responsible for two movies in two thousand eight, in movies that we wanted to represent, a new tone and a tone that we believed would be the best way to uh, to bring the characters

to the screen. The dream for years and years was to replicate the experience for a global audience that comic book fans had been had been enjoined for decades, which was that shared universe, which was not my idea, which was not a revolutionary idea. It was it was Stanley and Steve Dicko and Jack Kirby's idea in the Marvel Bullpen to combine all the characters because it was a relatively small group of people working on a lot of characters.

That's what we are now at Marvel Studios, and and I just thought it would be a lot of fun to be able to h across these characters into each other's movies. And that's why we had the Sam Jackson cameo at the end of at the end of Ironman. We did it a because Sam is a big fan and was gracious enough to come in and shoot it for us, and we put at the end of the credits because we didn't want it to uh interrupt the experience of the Tony Stark story that we were telling.

And we thought it would be a wink to fans to say, hey, look what we could do if this If this works, it ended up connecting with much more than just fans, ended up connecting with with almost everybody saw the movie. Um, much faster than I thought it would. That's what's fascinating about that little scene at the end there you go back and you look at it. I mean that there's no guarantee that what happened is going to happen. And we didn't even have a deal with

Sam Jackson beyond that. Yeah, was there just like I mean, what happened if those movies had failed? Like, was there, Hey, guys, we might end up pulling the plug on this thing we want to do because it might not take I mean, was that like in the area? Sure, Um, I don't take many vacations. This is I have a lot of fun doing what I'm doing. But in the summer of two thousand eight, uh that I had scheduled a vacation for August. I think it was. It was sort of

a it was a pseudo honeymoon. I got married in in March of two thou so I decided, well, I may as well schedule a vacation for August because these movies will either not work and I'll have a lot of time on my hands or they will work and I won't have much time in the future. So it really was we didn't spend a lot of time thinking about what if we fail. We spend all the time thinking about how can we succeed? But yeah, there would not be a studio if the Fireman and Hall had

not worked. Well, I mean, you know, I'm just curious, like whether pay or play deals involved or you'd have been kind of screwed on the profound level, like I don't know, I don't think I don't remember, No, I don't think so And happy tenth belated tenth anniversary there, thanking you and your wife. Um, But that was same thing with Avengers, by the way, Yeah, which was if Ironman and to answer your other question, if iron Man

HAULK hadn't worked, we wouldn't have a studio. If four and Captain America hadn't worked, Avengers would have been a much more difficult cell because we were basing that movie on on those characters and on Loki the villain from four. What has been like the biggest speed bump along the way or series of speed ups, anything that comes to mind that like really kind of stopped you or did or once it took off. Was it just a runaway

locomotive at that point, It's it's pretty much been a locomotive. Um. And there are as I'm sure there are on any film, but dozens, if not hundreds of speed bumps along the way as you are trying to bring something to life. The best part is the success has encouraged us to to keep moving forward with our plans, our plans of this shared universe, our plans of bringing all sorts of

different types of characters to the screen. And the success is also enabled and and uh uh, the unbelievable part of being UM with the Walt Disney Company when that happened was having the support of of Bob Iger of Alan Horne, who at every turn encourage us to go further and encourage us to take more risks. And it really is. It does seem like success should not trap you into repeating yourself. Success should embolden you to keep

trying new things. Uh. I want to talk about some of these directors that you've you've tapped along the way. I mean, you know, just for the next movie coming up with Captain Marvel, Boding and Fleck. You know, one of my favorite movie is recently with Sugar. I love those guys. Uh, you know Coogler, Chloe Joe coming up,

James Gunn. A lot of these folks came from the indie world, and I'm just curious what the what the thinking is with the hiring on on on these uh, very separate, very different voices that you've had along the way. I think a lot of it goes back to to, uh, to my early days at Marvel and seeing um decisions that I did not make or were not a part of. But seeing twenty Century Fox hiring Brian Singer on the first X Men, seeing Sony hire Sam Raimi on the

first Spider Man film. Those were both very, very good filmmakers who had done very good films, not action films, not big giant special effect films, but very good films that were clever and authentic and unique in their own way. And that those voices translated to these to these bigger films. So when we were looking for a filmmaker on the first Iron Man, it seemed it seemed like the way

to go. And and when John came in and was so enthusiastic about it and had done a movie which at the time was a little successful movie called Elf and now is a big Christmas classic. And there's a giant billboard on Sunset Boulevard UH today that says Elf is on hooray. Um and is a and as a and as a Christmas classic. UM but I was very pressed with that film going back to tone that could

have been silly comedy. It is an excellent, excellent movie with by the way, an excellent use of visual effects. UM And John is a very smart man and speaks with great confidence. And we add is a is a fan of film and a fan of these types of film, a fan of entertaining films. Um And had done a film called Zathura so had some visual effect experience. UM now is arguably the greatest filmmaker of pioneering visual effects

there is. UM. We had them on the show for a Jungle Book Amazing and and and and Lion King and Mandalorian Um so we always believed and it and and it has worked and uh starting with John and up up to uh Bote and Fleck that when you bring in people with creative chops and with something to say and with a unique vision, UM, it doesn't matter if they haven't uh worked with the technical aspects of

of of a large motion picture. Yeah. Uh it also, you know, I guess it's a dose of prestige as well for a genre that, let's face it, some people have biases against for whatever reasons. Um, why do you think it is that, you know, movies like comic book movies or sci fi or what have you, are they're not really taken seriously in their time. A lot of the times, I think they are taken seriously by a lot of people. I think you're asking about people that

vote on awards and and things like that. I think they're taken seriously by a lot of people, which is thankfully why they succeed and why people anticipate that the next ones. Um as I as I did when I was a kid growing up, waiting for these next movies, having my mom driving to the movie theater to see the teaser poster of my new favorite movie coming out because you couldn't see them online like you can now. Um,

I don't know, it's the question. I you know, I remember Star Wars was nominated for Best Picture, and I think Close Encounters was, and I and and uh and I think it was et nominated. Yeah, it just sort of I guess it just sort of reminds me of like certain serialized filmmaking that like you know, I think of like the Westerns of of of It's a Day for instance. Uh. That just it takes some time for certain minds to look back at it and say that

was an important pop cultural thing, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I mean it is. Uh, when we're not you know, we have an opportunity to to to make films where we want to make them with people that we want to make them with. It's so um, it's so satisfying, and it's it takes its requires so much effort, but it's so satisfying, and then when the audience responds to it, then that's all that. I mean, at the end of the day, that's all that. That's what's pretty. That's pretty,

that's pretty amazing. And and certainly what's happening now with Panther is very very special and means so much to us, um because Ryan Coogler, I know you've spoken to um and everybody associated with that movie poured their heart and soul in as everybody does who works on any movie of ours, but that in particular with what Ryan was doing, what Ryan had to say, and Ryan vouching for UH crew members that we had not worked with before but that he believed in and who came in and blew

us away with initial sort of presentations to get the job. It's the ultimate example of all of that, I think, I mean across the board and two. And not only for them to have stepped up UH to play the bat I'm not good at sports metaphors, and then knocking out of the park the way they did is is incredible in the fact that the world responded to it the way they did. And you know, this movie has a lot on its mind. I mean, to say the least.

Somebody recently I just said this on the podcast. The other days people hearing it again, but I will say it again. Somebody was like, superhero movies are made for teenagers and kids, and I'm like, well, what who do they make movies for that are about centering a conversation about growing up with systemic oppression versus growing up with, as Michael B. Jordan's told me, a tribe that is supporting you and instilling you with positivity. Who are those

movies made for? I mean, it's just an absurd thing to say whenever you've got a movie like this that is so dense on the page and what in the ideas, it's kind of chewing on right. So I think that's goes a long way towards why it's your most acclaimed movie to date. And well, I think that goes back to right number one. I think that what kind of people who are just going to dismiss things out right

there's not much to say or or worth saying. Um. I love this genre of of storytelling because it can say things in a way that are as truthful and emotional as anything else. But when you present them in a way that's also entertaining, you're going to get that message. You're gonna get what you have to say out to a lot more people. And that's what's the I mean, that's what The Twilight Zone did, That's what Star Trek did.

I mean that those were the things that I that I loved, That's what that's what Marvel Comics did and continue to do. Ah. But I think you it comes down to Ryan Coogler, and it comes down to a filmmaker who has such a deft hand at being able to balance in action sequence something that is going to have entertainment value around the world with being true to his soul and being true to the questions that he has growing up, which I know he talked about on

this show. And by the way, one of the nicest people that you can remains incredibly humble and incredibly enthusiastic, and the way we try to be, the way the people we work with are. It's just about the work. It's just about the work. Absolutely. Um. I wanted to

kind of just briefly jump back to the beginning. I'm curious about aesthetics always when I'm talking to creators on this show and whenever you're diving into building the Marvel Cinematic universe, you can go a couple of different ways with what it's gonna look like, right, So I'm just curious like what those conversations were early on and how that evolved, just you know, in terms of how things are going to look, costumes, production design, how it's all

going to be of a holistic piece. Uh. Truth is it was all It was really filmed by film. I think I think people make a set of connections more just because the same logos in front of all those films. Um, it really was filmed by film. I member when we hit iron Man one was released. I think it was after that first weekend that we announced um, iron In too, Thor Captain America and Avengers, and then we were going to build them all, intertwine them all leading up to Avengers.

And two things struck me about that. One was I thought it was the greatest thing ever and it was like a blurb in the trades. Nobody cared, nobody cared um or nobody believes apologize. I wouldn't here it is we announced that chirp, chirp. Oh. I guess we just

have to do it. Um. The other thing was there were people who would say how in the word, either to me or in the in the early years of of film blogging the film a lot of film blockers got it to be fair early on, but the question of how in the world is a Norse god from an alien planet going to fit into the world of Tony Stark established an iron Man and my answer was always, well, that's you gotta watch the movie. That's what the that's what the film is going to be about. UM. My

other the real answer was I'm not sure. We better figure it out, but we didn't want to and we know it would be about the story of him being banished to Earth and finding and finding humility, going from this pompous god to this to this humble hero. Um. But at the same time we didn't want to. I'm always disappointed in the movies that suggests a fantastic world just beyond the horizon that you never see. Well, no, I'm buying a ticket to see it. I'm buying a

ticket to go there, so please take me there. And that's why, certainly with that movie it was about it was about going there and unabattledly as guardian battles and fun uh mythological creatures, but at the same time introducing

for to the to the planet Earth. So so aesthetically, if a style has evolved, it has evolved in actually over the course of all these of all these films, um but always with the needs of the film that we're making at the time, at the forefront and drawing from the page, I imagine is some way as well.

I mean, were there any obviously the classic founders of these these characters were a part of it, but like curious if any contemporary artists were without questions, without question and and and it always you know, movies always start with a with a blank page. Ours do as well, but we have the luxury of a blank page with a giant stack of comics next to it. UM, So

there are too many to name. I know you spoke with Tyka about Jack Kirby, which was a huge reference point for all of Ragnarok, a huge reference point for many of our movies, but most directly for Ragnarok. UM Warren Ellison Adi Granoff's run on iron Man was very influential if you go back and look iron Man essentially this I'm being reductive, but essentially was a man in gold Heights and kind of read reddish uh vest and underwear right until Audi turned it into more dimensionalized armor.

And that was our starting point for then Phil Saunders and and uh and Ryder in to to adapt it to the to the screen. UM. The comic book series The Ultimates huge influence on the the That's what I was kind of getting at, because that's what that's what I took from it early on quite a bit was because I was not any specific stories that I can think of, but uh, textually, certainly Sam Jackson is Nick

Fury without question came from that. UM Widow and Hawkeye also very much inspired, um aesthetically from that from that paramilitary Yeah, Um, we're going into Captain Marvel and Avengers Endgame, the twenty one and twenty second movies of this uh, initial era. I guess you can call it an area. You can't call it a phase anymore. No, you're exactly right, it's an era. Uh, you know you're a steel trap.

I'm not gonna try to get you to tell me anything, but judging by this trailer that just dropped recently, it looks like aunt Man is going to be kind of important. So what will you tell me about expectations on drawing this to a close, this first era of Marvel Studios movies to a close while we've been working on we did. We did Infinity War and Endgame at the same time, developed them, shot them. Uh. We then obviously finished Infinity

War first. But it's been those have been the longest jest stating movies we've ever we've ever made four years now for almost five years, UM, and it was always about delivering. It was always about delivering on the promise that we had that we had set up UM and the way the world received Infinity War Um was amazing. It was exactly what we wanted in that ending, which

we've been working on for many years. And uh, and I do remember, you know, people on all of the movies we've made it I'm sure on many movies we will make in the future. Uh. Whenever the good guy wins, which is often good guy, good good, good, good woman, good hero wins, Uh, they go kind of predictable good guy wins. Well sometimes that's that's fun. But for years I remember thinking, I wonder what they're gonna do when they don't, because we knew that was coming. And uh,

it couldn't been better. The reaction was the best. Reaction was the best. Ye. So uh no, I won't tell you anything obviously, but but we feel the we feel the pressure of of delivering and that doesn't and deliver

and expectations but in unexpected ways. Uh. And then after that from there, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, Eternals and with Chloe gil directing and Black Widow with Kate Shortland will be going into production production right The only thing we've officially actually announced after after Avengers Endgame is the Spider Man movie that we're working on now. Spider Man Far from Home. There are other things in development. There are other filmmakers which you just named, who are

working on things in development. But when and where and how and why we haven't we haven't discussed yet. Um, but it's fair to say that that we will keep making films after Endgame and Inspirement Far from Home. You're just gonna and walcome. Yes, that's just hanging up. Uh. Well, should we know the the way we want to the way we want to do it is sort of the way we've done up to now, which is which is as I said before, in unexpected ways, continuing to bring

characters to the screen that you haven't seen before. Um, while at the same time seeing news stories and new ways of the of the hears you already know. Well, keep notion here with these two filmmakers just mentioned to women fronting these movies, I mean, is that going to

be a very important thing for the studio going forward? Yes, parody absolutely it what we is and and people have asked, sometimes very directly so as panther one off, in terms of in terms of inclusion representation, and the answer is no, it's the beginning, uh that it worked out as well as it worked out is just UM again encourages to head the direction we're gonna head anyway. But you look at that film and the experience of that film, and

Ryan spoke to you about it, it was incredible. I mean that movie, that movie obviously would not have been what it was if everybody's sitting around the table looked like me or you. And that's actually true for all the movies the more and and as Marvel Studios has grown, and as our creative UM internal creative team has grown, UM, it's the same thing. It's almost it's almost half men half women now UM. I think that will get even

that will that may become more women. Frankly in the coming years, based on the based on the UM UH news team members who continue to grow. We try to grow and promote in house. Almost everybody that works around me has worked here for many many years, and UH and people who were going on to produce some of our next films UM came in below the people that are producing the films now. I very much believe in that.

And and when you have diverse voices, you get better stories, and you get and you get more exciting stories, and you get more UM surprising stories and that is something that, uh, it's very very clear to us. And regarding the notion of Black Panther being a one off inclusion wise, obviously not. But I am actually curious. I mean, I can't imagine you expected the level of success that greeted that film.

So were was that as a franchise property always in play or was it kind of meant to be this world that you were going to develop and that was gonna be crucial to things going forward? But maybe it would just be one Black Panther movie and that was it. So you kind of let the audience tell you, is what I'm kind of saying, because when you get that course,

it ultimately comes down to the audience telling us. Um. But because we have such amazing source material and we have such a rich um selection of amazing stories going back decades and decades, we always have other ideas. We always have have thoughts on where we could go, and we've been very lucky to this point that every film we've made, UM, we've been able to make another one. So we have high expectations every time we make a movie,

including Black Panther. Those expectations were far surpassed. UM. But the goal is always to create a character or, in the case of Black Panther, a world that is so that is so rich and is so um exciting to audiences that they that they want to go back. And I mean two movies making six d million dollars in the States. I just want to make it clear to people that that is crazy first and foremost, but coming

from one studio. And then, by the way, Disney overall has a third one with Incredibles too, So it's like, you guys are doing something right over here. Let's talk briefly at the very end here, I wanted to touch on the Disney Fox thing, which is, you know, Disney's acquired Fox, so you've got this kind of sandbox of

characters to play with potentially. Now. I talked to the Russo's about this in an earlier stage where in a later stage, now, have you been given the yes, go start thinking about these other characters yet No, not yet, but we've been told it's it is. It's looking very good and and and could happen in the in the

first six months of next year. I mean, you know, obviously everyone's been thrilled to see these characters come together on the screen to had this whole new uh again toy box of X Men and Fantastic four and Silver Surfer. I mean, the mind boggles, it's and it and it comes at such an interesting time for the studio too, because you're ten years in, You've come to the end

of this first era. It's almost like, could that be a skeleton key to unlocking an entire new direction for this kind of overarching cinematic universe that Marvel Comics provides a lot of skeleton keys, um, which is what's pretty remarkable. And twenty two films, twenty three counting Far from Home, twenty three films in, we still have truly only scratched the surface of what has been in publishing in the

past eighty years. One of the things that is equally frustrating but also um, pretty amazing is whenever we announce a slate. We haven't done it now for four years or so, but we we did a big event at the El Capitan Theater. I think it was four years ago. Um yeah, where we announced I can't remember exactly, but ten movies maybe, And I did a little a little Q and A with with press afterwards. The very like the first five questions were what about this character, what

abou this other character? What about this movie? Um? And I thought, well, well, wait a minute, we just announced ten or whatever it was new movies. Isn't that enough? And what's amazing is no, it's not enough about which goes to which goes to how many great characters there are in these comics. So so I think there are a lot of them. UM. I can't remember what the official word is of eight thousand characters or ten thousand?

Could they all be movies? No, of course not, but could a hundred, um, you know maybe um, and so many different types. That's why you know, the the earthbound UH stories that we've done. Getting UH to a cosmic

space was always very important to me. I'm a big I'm a big fan of of of science fiction and outer space movies, which now which now we've done the supernatural side metaphysical side of things with the Dutch Strange Universe, UM, and there's still others that we haven't tapped into yet in terms of in terms of genre plays, which is what we always like to do. UM. So there's lots there. The notion of the characters that had previously been under

a Fox agreement coming back, um, is great. Number one, it's nice when a company that that that created all these characters can have access to all those characters. Um, it's unusual not to Marvel has been in a unique position to not have access to the characters a long time. And for me, going full circle to our conversation, that's where I started. That's where I started, you know, almost

twenty years ago now, So that's so it's exciting. But in terms of actually thinking about it and actually planning things, we haven't started that yet. With this twenty two film arc of films coming to a close. Uh, I'm curious about you, Like, are you ready to go another ten years here at this company? Do you have designs on anything else? Do you want to? I mean, what you've built here is significant? Uh? Would you want to build it somewhere else? You know? Or are you happy staying

here even longer? Because it's it's actually an unusual here. I mean, you've been with Marvel for twenty years, like right out of the game, so uh and here you are still so just curious you know where you're at. I'm i am a uh anti person I said before, I don't like to sit at a desk. I'm we're in our my office right now. I almost never said at that desk I'd like to jump around and I'd

like to move around. Um. So, even thinking, all right, if I've been in the same place for eighteen years, well, I guess theoretically yes, but in actuality, no, it's been it's been very different companies at least three three or four incarnations of this company since I've been here. This current incarnation is pretty great. Um. The people I work

with at Marvel Studios are great. The people I work for at the Walt Disney Studios are incredible and of the best mentors I've I've ever had in this in this business. Um, working at this studio at this time is uh is pretty is is pretty um satisfying. And I like to make lots of different types of movies. And these characters, as you've seen in twenty two movies, or you've seen in twenty and we'll see in the next in the next three UM, provide a way to

do lots of different films. People can lump them together as quote unquote superhero movie or complex movie, but to us their movies and to us we think about what kind of stories do we want to do. What kind of stories haven't we done? What kind of movies do we like that we haven't gotten to do yet, and then we decide what to make? Um and that's a and that is a We're very uh lucky to be in that position. Tell me, just abstractly, what's number one on that list? What kind of movie have you not

made yet that you really want to make? Any answer would be a spoiler because I guess because they haven't come out yet and we're doing them. But um, but there are even well this is anything I say, we'll get but I'm just curious, like you know, just again just broadly speaking, because you know, cosmic for instances is

a broadway to put that aspect of it. So, you know, even as Ryan Coogler has talked about, you know, the notion of of a James Bond type film with a swap here that that was one of the early UM inspirations that that the Nate More discussed with Ryan Coogler for for Panther um and uh and I don't think most people watched that film and think James Bond, but you can see where part of the part of that inspiration came from doing it with an African hero in a in a in a in a country that had

never been colonized, is only even more exciting, makes it more more unique and special. Yeah, such a great movie. Uh. If you haven't seen Black Panther like yet, you should see it. I don't know how you would have missed this one, but it's on Blu ray, DVD, four K, all of those things, you should check it out. And beyond the streaming service before long, we didn't talk about that, but the streaming service. Is that going to be a

big part of your plans? Like as far as branching things off the big screen and into more plus is yes, which is another another exciting avenue and another exciting reason to uh, another exciting thing about being at this place at this time. Um. And it goes back to the amount of characters we have, in the amount of stories we could tell. When we announced ten movies and people go, what about all these other things? The previous answer would be, well, we only have a certain number of we only have

a certain number of slots to make movies per per year. Um. That's still true, but now we have another outlet to do things. I think that will be very, very unique and very special and uh, coming up in March, we've got Captain Marvel and then Avengers end Game, at which point, uh hopefully all answers, all questions will be answered. Maybe maybe not. But here's the ten more years. Man, Thank

you so much, damn good job of this. Again. At the top, I said you're a key important figure in the industry, and I mean it because it's exciting to see something so radical take shape. And I'm looking around the office, man, like you've created a world and you know, hats off to you. That's all. We brought a world to life. That that he brought world life, I should say, and and by the way, I don't want to leave this without talking about stand just a little bit. Like again,

we lost Stanley earlier this year. It was so great that he was able to see all of this as well. That has to be like a big deal to you that he you know, it was And and I was there not for everyone, but for almost every single cameo he's ever shot, going back to X Men one, UM, he was very special and he was I've always said, you know, anybody who met stan I've never heard one story of somebody meeting stan and not being overwhelmed with excitement.

He never disappointed. UM and I was lucky enough to see him about ten days before he passed away coincidanally went went to his house to see him. Um And, in some ways, I never thought this day would come. I thought he'd be going, you know, Kirk Douglas just turned a hundred and two. I thought Stan was going to be there and literally outlived all of us. Um And in the same ways, it doesn't seem like he's gone because, just like Walt Disney on this lot, his

influence will will never, will never go on. He is immortal because his characters aren't going anywhere. Sure, so yeah, exactolutely. Well, thank you again, man, take thank you, Congrats on a hundred episode appreciated, Congrats on ten years. Thank you, and hopefully you'll come back on the show. I'd love to have you back. I have to after some things unfold. Thanks again man. Thanks