Jason Reitman / "Tully" and "The Front Runner"

more so. Sit tight. This is playback. He's gonna how's the family. They're good man. I'll show you a picture you're in a minute. Yeah, that's exhausting. Yeah, because he's too and he's you know, yeah, every every good good though, I'll show it sounds crazy. I'll show you what twelve looks like already. Wow, did sure her first day of school this year? So this was four or five years ago and she started the school and she's like, oh,

she's a kid. She looks like a kid. And then this was first day of school this year and it's tall, yeah, and like has that look in her eyes and it's just like I looked it, says like I know what's up on my phone. Yeah, I'm glad, thank you. I'm gonna move this back in front of you. All right. Gosh, I didn't know she was already that old. It's crazy, right, do you vote yet? I'm a Canadian, that's right, I can't. I'm just on the sidelines watching. I mean, it's it's

crazy though, yes, it's that's a word for it. All right, I want to start. Yeah, we're up and running, all right, everybody. I'm here today with Jason Reitman, director of the front Runner. Quite a title for a movie in the Awards season. By the way, thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. It's great to be here. We're just talking about kids in life and Georgia and politics. And we're here on election day, which is, uh, your movies out today, right, Like, you know, we're in LA in

New York, so the first election day release. Yeah. I mean, I don't think anyone really wants to go to the movies today. I think everyone's gonna be hopefully voting, and then later on everyone's gonna be watching the television to see what happens, which, um, you know, it makes everybody anxious. Although I guess you could say the positive is that we are interested in the process and people are voting and people care, and I guess that's a good thing. Yeah,

well it's interesting for me this year. You this is is kind of your your Schindler's List Jurassic Park here if you will. That's a bit much, I mean, I mean, you're talking about the year where Spielberg, you know, reinvented what science fiction looks like and then made this beautiful black and white holocaust film that one best picture. I don't think I'm having that year version of that. I

appreciate that. Now. Look, it's been an exciting year to have Tolly out five months ago and now to have front Runner out now, Uh, two films that I'm equally proud of that are um different and personal and both independent and movies I made for the right reasons. Yeah,

that's really cool. At a time when it's really hard to get movies made and uh, really hard to make personal movies, the idea that I get to make two in a year, again, it's really excited, does it feel like, just in the promotion of that, having these two films to put out there in the world and kind of speak to them. I mean, you usually you're so focused when you're putting out putting on a movie. It's like

that was your year. Obviously you might be working on a movie otherwise, but to have them both out and kind of chewing on them like that, you know. I mean, the promotion process is emotionally complicated as a director because it is you know, it's dropping your kids off at school, you know, at college. You know, it's the it's the moment you say goodbye. And the more you talk about

a movie, the less it becomes yours. So, uh, it's always an emotionally challenging experience to promote a film because even though it's exciting for it to be out there in the world, Um, the more you talk about it and the more you tell stories about it, and the more you try to promote it, the less it's, strangely becomes your movie. Yeah, let's go back before we get into front Runner and talk about Tolly saw it at Sundance, the Big Blizzard screening premiere. Uh, that was Diablo Cody script.

I'm curious what made you want to direct it? I mean, I think my role on Earth is to direct her screenplay, So I said, I would say primarily that you know, we're on this trajectory of making a movie every five years, and I hope that continues to the day I die. She's one of the best writers alive, and she writes from a very unique point of view. Her voice is singular uh, and she always surprises me with everything that

she writes. And here she wrote, you know, you know, with each of the movies, it's like we're growing up together. You can see that through Juno and Young Adult and not finally this one and this one, you know, was a conversation about uh, getting a little bit older. And you know, if you could have a conversation with your younger self, you know, and say, actually, goodbye to your younger self, what would you say. I think that was

kind of at the heart of it. Were you aware of what of of her working on it before, like did you see it for the first time in script form or was that something you you know. What seems to happen is she lets me know, hey, I'm thinking of working on this idea and gives me the gist of it and then infuriating Lee. In a couple of months, she has a screenplay and it's worth directing. You know, it's it's ready to shoot. And I you know, I think we've just talked about before. I'm a slow writer.

You know, I wrote up in the air or of course a seven years I think you're spoking were of course of five years. The idea that you can kind of just turn around a script a matter of months is mind boggling that she does it without a treatment, that she just kind of wanders into the desert and comes out the other side of the script. I mean, look, you and I are both screenwriters. Like it's just like how how does someone do that? And she's just innately

gifted me. It's like you know, asking a baseball player how they hit the ball. I think at a certain point they were just born to do it. And she is just a kind of the truest form of a writer that I've encountered. And you saw something of yourself in the material immediately. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's interesting, like I find that those films end up being strangely autobiographical. Bi autobiographical for Diablo and I for probably different reasons.

But you know, Juno was about um innocence and the moment that you do grow up or decided not to grow up, and young adult was obviously the fear of growing up. And this was five years further down the line in that trajectory when you know, uh, you have to actually admit that you've grown up and say goodbye to your younger self. Yea, Uh, what were you looking for it? By the way, after Men, Women and Children was your feature previous to that, and you did casually.

You worked in TV with Hulu for a bit, But I'm curious what you were looking for in the span of time. I don't know, I mean, and I get why you're asking. H I mean, it's kind of a weird thing to come off of a kind of a resounding failure and like think about like where you want to go next. Also, you took some time, that was what I mean. I mean, you worked on Casual, but you know there was time between. I guess, so, I

mean it didn't feel like that. That's the crazy thing is, So you know, Men, Women and Children comes out I think in two thousand fourteen, we right the front runner. In two thousand fifteen. Uh, we are making four seasons of Casual over the last you know, three and a half years, and then made you know, finished the front Runner screenplay, went immediately into directing Tully, and then went

immediately directing front Runner. So close in fact, that there was a time when both Tully and the front Runner were simultaneously in the Avid. And there's actually a shot from Tully in the front Runner because we were missing a shot and I realized I could use this shot from the other movie. Yeah, so it it's it's feels as though it's been packed. I mean, it's four seasons of TV and two movies for sure. What you say resounding failure, I mean is that just regarding box office

or did you feel like creatively you did not. Actually, I'm actually really proud of that movie. I'm proud of uh, proud of what we wrote, proud of what we shot. Um love the music in it, and obviously the cast in it is exceptional and you know, actors like Ansel L. Gordon, Timothy Shamala Salam or you know, obviously you know being recognized now, which we should almost rerelease the film now

considering how big all the stars in it are. But no, I'm actually really happy with that film and um, but look, you can't control how a movie is received, both at the time and in general. Uh, and uh, you know, you know what's funny is I think there's kind of a presumption of how directors work and behave, And there's this kind of presumption that directors come in with all the answers that they think that they h that they have the answers for everybody else, and that's why they

make a movie. And I think the opposite is actually true. I think directors make movies because we have questions. Uh, we're just as lost as everyone else. We're trying to figure things out, and every and figures things out in different ways, and making a movie is a way of chewing on the questions that are gnawing away. I think that's why artists in general create, is because there's something that bothers us as an itch you need to scratch.

And so you know, with a movie like Men, Women and Children, that uh were the response presumed as though I felt I had answers. It's not the truth. I just just another person living today trying to figure out. Uh, this world is moving really fast, and you know how my connections with everyone else are have evolved and changed, and you know, as a result of technology. So what was the question then? That spurred the front Runner on well the first runner, you know, yeah, no, I think

I have. The front Runner is filled with questions. I mean I came into look unlike everyone else alive right now, you know. I I wake up, the first thing I do is I check my phone and I look at the news app and I just go fuck, you know. And I'm trying to figure everything out as much as everybody else. And when I heard the Gary Hart story, which I really didn't know from when I was a kid, you know, I was ten years older than this happened. I was, you know, and I heard the names, but

I didn't really know the story. And when I heard, you know, Radio Labs episode on Gary Hard which covered map Buy's book, It's kind of revelation to me. I just couldn't believe that there was this moment in our recent history where they presumed next president of the United States was in an alley way behind his house in the middle of the night with these at the journalists, and nobody knew what to do because no one ever

been in their shoes before. And it was the first time that we were talking about a tabloid story when it came to potential president and it was the reason

he left the race. That's kind of interesting, I mean in it, I thought, uh, hey, there was all this connected tissue everything we're talking about today, you know, as far as gender politics and the line between the what is a public life versus a private life and what is the relationship at wing journalists and candidates, which obviously has only become more fraught in the two years, you

know since we wrote the script um. And at the core of it was this thriller, this thriller of a movie where a guy went from being the next president the United States and less than a week later he leaves politics forever. And he's a guy who in the mid EIGHTI was was saying things like we're addicted to oil, and that addiction is going to takes into the Middle East where we're gonna encounter Islamic terrorism and not know

how to fight it. Is a guy in the early eighties met Steve jobs Um and came back to the Senate and said, Uh, the difference in the future in the economy will be with her or not. You know how to use a computer, and we need a computer in every classroom. He was prescient about everything and yet could not see this thing that was happening right in front of him, that the landscape was shifting, that we wanted to know about his personal life and he was

unwilling to share that. And what is it about that moment that puts us on a trajectory of today? Well, let me ask you this, does that naive to say? Does he get away with that in your movie a little bit? What do you mean? I just kind of feel like this is me. But I kept waiting on you to take a little more of a stand than you did, and I know it was willful not to. It's it's a very it's a very kind of especially taking a dive into the press situation, how the press,

how you handle the press in it. Uh some critics have even taken it to feel like a side eye towards the press or something. Uh So, I guess my question is when you when you had all those questions going into it, did you come up with any answers or is the fact that you kind of left things a little hands off? I do with all my movies. That is how that is who I am as a filmmaker.

And if that frustrates you, then I get it. Only this time and I think at this period in history is the thing, you know, like, if it's not like a little both sides the at the time, I didn't want to hear that. That's when we need to be most challenging. Look Up in the Air? You know, where is George Clooney going at the end of Up in the Air? Is he gonna go find true love? Or is he find actually given up on the whole concept? Um, I think it'd be bullshit if I, you know, said,

oh it's one or the other. Uh. I hate movies that do that. And and and look, you know where is Charlie's going at the end of Young Adult? You know, is she has she finally learned her lesson? Is she going to you know, mature and look for a deep and meaningful relationship or is she realized that she's going to lean into this character that she's created for herself for the rest of her life. Um. These are the things that that I think about every day. I think

a lot of people think about every day. You know, am I becoming a better person or a worst person on a daily basis? Am I enriching my life? Uh? Am I becoming a closer friend? Or am I finding ways to put walls around me. Um, And politically, where the hell are we going? I mean, this is what's on our minds, and no one has the answer on that. And both sides thinks the other is absolutely crazy. And our candidates have become uh had no one is in

the center anymore. We're leaning to the to the edges of each party and uh and and there is a fraud relationship between journalists and candidates. They don't talk to each other, they don't spend time with each other. And when I read Matt's book on the subject, on Heart, I saw a moment as recent as the early to mid eighties when politicians and candidates spent social time with journalists and they knew who each other were as people. I think there's something really important to that. And a

wall went up at this moment. And and and it's interesting because you know, I hear what you're saying as far as a side eye to the press, which I really do not have. Right of course, that's why I asked. I mean, look, I mean you and I are friends. I'm friends with plenty of journalists. I wrote this with a journalist, one of the writers of the screenplay. Uh. You know, covered five presidencies for New York Times magazine. Um, I think we all have a responsibility. Now, Look, I okay,

I just mentioned earlier. You wake up, you open your phone, you check the news out. This is what I noticed a lot of happening these days. They years a piece on the mid terms or the Kavanaugh herrings, and then right next to it, from the same source, Post Times Equal Weight is something on Ariana Grande and Pete Davidson breaking up. Which one is politics? Which one is entertaining? Why are they given the same way? Why am I getting them both from the Washington Post. I think there

is a confusion, and it comes from us. It comes from the readers. It comes to the people clicking. It's an appetite. Yeah, so you know, if anything, I'm turning the mirror back on the audience and going, okay, so what do you really want to know? What are you interested in? I know you're frustrated. I'm frusted. We're all frustrated right now. But how did we actually get here? And if you look at eight seven, what's interesting about that moment is it is the moment that a current

affair goes on television. I was just gonna say, the twenty four hour news cycle, is you really starting to pick up around the television news. And you have the birth of the satellite truck, which makes the twenty four hour news cycle possible. You have CNN giving satellite phones to their journals so they can cover the presidency anywhere anytime. Uh,

political punditry is coming to its own. You have kind of like it's like six years after the birth of Crossfire, and that is now starting to heap up, heat up and come into its own, and you can start to see it starts to get planted in other places. You

have the Tammy Faye Baker story. You have all our North and Fawn Hall, and and and and and even with this story, it's like you go from a magazine cover with a big photo of Gary Hart with a little photo of Donna Rice, and within a month or two it's a big photo of Donna Rice in the

little photo of Gary Hart. So I'm interested in what what we want to consume, how we want to consume it, and and in this bigger idea of okay, what's actually relevant, what is important versus what is entertaining, And that becomes the fundamental filmmaking style. That we go with. So from the first thing shot, opening shot, two and a half minutes, sprawling shot, tons of characters going starting into the satellite truck,

starting in a satellite truck. So what we're trying to tell the audience right from the beginning is you're gonna hear things overlapping, three conversations, four conversations. You're not gonna be able to listen to everything, You're not going to look at everything. You're gonna meet characters you're not gonna know first are these Is this an important person? Is

this the last time I'm going to see them? And right from the beginning of the film, you have to make decisions, all right, what do you want to listen to? Given the choice? And that goes all the way to the closing shot of the film, where there's two things happening on screen and on one side there's a television where Gary Hearts making his last speech as a politicians, the best speech he ever made, the most important speech

he ever made. It's kind of strange that I'm not sure of another politician where the most important speech they ever made with literally the end of their career and young, you know. And then on the other side of frame ar guarianly husband and wife, a marriage, a complicated marriage going through real trouble, and I'm asked on it. It's what do you really want to look at? And that's what I want to leave with them with. This is a long winded way of saying I want people to

think about that. Have that conversation look like, do what have feelings about the current presidency? Of course I do um And in casual conversations with my friends, yes I would. I would make them clear. But I don't see the point of my movies too as to take people down or to use my megaphone to shout my opinion. I see the movie as a mirror. I see it as an opportunity for people to see themselves in it. And at the end of the day, I'm much more interested

in human beings than I am in politics. He started to get ahead of me there. I was gonna ask about the aesthetic, because I love the aesthetic. The first thing I thought it was Altman. You know, it's just this the overlap dialogue. You know, something going on way over here that we're eventually going to end up on, but we're not there yet. Yeah, you know, the slowly. It's just there's a kind of a seventies aesthetic. I guess.

Uh so you started to explain it there, but talk a little bit more about that and working with your DP on it. Yeah, totally. I mean, so the first thing that I did co writers, Um, first thing I did with my co writers, uh, Matt By and Jay Carson, I shoul point out. You know I mentioned that Matt By, you know New York Times magazine. Jay Carson was the

press secretary for Hillary Clinton. Howard Dean, Tom Dashall. So this is a movie that was written on the shoulders of their kind of mutual experience from both sides of the line, one being a journalist southern, one being a political operative. Um. And we watched the candidate together, the Michael Richie felt and that was the first moment where we just we were all watching together and it was like, Okay, this is the north Star. This is what we're aiming for.

This kind of loose, messy style in which you feel like you were just dropped into the room. There is you know, there isn't a director telling you this is important to keep an eye on this. You have to pay atchanges in this character or this is the point. Rather you're in a room fend for yourself. And of course Robert Altman was the genius who kind of created this style which you're kind of mosey through the room as the camera and find things as you do, and okay,

it takes. It's this odd mix of letting creating a scene where the actors can be wild and messy while the camera is actually you know, very carefully choreographed. Uh. And Eric Steelberg, who have worked I've known since I was a teenager, and it's done almost everything I've ever done. UM,

and I worked very specifically on that. I think the real key to that style though is oddly sound and it's Steve Morrow, our production mixer, who have also worked with you know since thank you for smoking and it was brilliant and just did stars born in la and in an enormous career. Uh, it was work with him.

And how your ears can point your eyes is it's just it's the thing that you mentioned a moment ago, you're moving through the crowd, you're watching, Uh, you know, a journalist do a stand up to camera and you're already hearing another conversation off camera, and you're already kind of starting to look that way even though there's no

one to look at. And I feel like that's what happens in life, is your ears start kind of taking you to different places and and and the whole movie is about conversation, what you want to listen to, So he would Steve Morrow made the decision early on to mike every actor on all takes, no matter what you're looking at. And we made the decision have almost every actor on set every day, so we would have twelve, fifteen, literally sometimes twenty actors all might and Morrow would be

playing the mixer like a piano. And because they're all talking simultaneously and he is governing, well you listen to Normally when you make a movie, should I shoot a close up with you? Were chord your sound? You should a close with me chord my sound. You get a little of the off camera For the most part, you were favoring what you're looking at. And the presumption is that you get to the mix in the end, and

at the mix you find the balance of everything. When you watch this movie, you're actually hearing Steve Morrow's work that he did on the day, balancing all these conversations to create that sense of being in a crowd and lost amongst the conversations and picking out the little pieces. Uh and and the script was not only dual dialogue a lot of the time, but additional scenes that were write that would give to actors and be like there

was no room for this in the script. Here's your dialogue, or here's a magazine from Just read this article and share what you learned with the other character. And everyone was all over each other. That's awesome though that he was like you know, mad scientists back there mixing everything. He worked on one of the Born movies and he just started covering the cars and like microphones. I mean,

he's a guy who loves what he does. He's an artist and no matter what if he if he's doing uh Stars Born, he's finding ways to record all that music lives so that they can do it and they can actually do it live mix of the live music. And he's he's always trying to find a new way. At the shot, where did you shoot it? By the way, we shot it in Georgia, We shot it in Atlanta at It's kind of remarkable cause up in the air. We shot in five cities, and of course I wanted

to do that again. But it is hard to make these movies and these days and the mooneing the money is tight, and I should use that as an opportunity to shout out to Braun Bronze Studios who paid for Tully and paid for this movie. It's a Canadian company and are still making independent films like this that otherwise would never get made. And then how about Hugh Jackman. I mean, was this was he in your head while you were working on the script? Is this was he

kind of like first choice? Now that you would tell me that you were at your heart set, he was in my mind from very early on. The look outside of the kind of cause matic similarity is uh, He's a movie star that I've wanted to work with for a long time because he's as hard working as anybody's probably hard more hardwork than any actor I've ever worked with. His overwhelming decency kind of echoes through not only the

filmmaking process, but through the character of Gary Hart. And look, I'm making a movie about making a movie about a guy. If I told you I was, I'm gonna make a movie about your life, let me pick the worst week, right, And I know I want Gary Hart's inner decency to shine through despite the fact that, look, there's gonna three weeks where he's going to be tough. Uh. And I knew that would happen with you, and I knew he would work harder. I mean, the amount of research he

did on this movie was insane. Production design department was learning things from Hugh, Costume department was learning things from you. In editorial, there's you know, as you saw, there's like real footage that we cut into the movie. Some of that footage is from Hughes research. I mean, it's just insane. He should get a co directing credit. Maybe, well now hold on, hold on, uh what about just you know, this is your biggest ensemble you've worked with it, I guess.

I mean putting that together was that like, is there like a control room somewhere where you've got the big board of the photos of people in ch I mean, honestly, what was cool was like with with this many main characters. I get to work with actors I haven't wanted to work my entire life. I gotta work with Alfred Bolina, you know, character actors like Kevin Pollock, a comedian like Bill Burr, all these young actors who are on TV right now. I love the choice of Bill Burr, by

the way, that was so awesome. Thank you pop up in a movie like that, Yeah, and and really have somen to do and not just you know, be himself, but actually kind of do some acting and be great in it. He's kind of one of the great. He was great being a confrontational journalist, you know, kind of high and mighty in a way about certain things. Well and nervous. Yeah, I mean that's the top of it is.

I can't imagine how scary it is. I mean, I can't imagine how security is to be a journalist right now. I can't imagine what it would have been like to be in the alleyway that night and really wondering about the ethics and the repercussions of what you're doing. I understand why they were there. I understand why the journalist went to his house. I mean saying I didn't know and telling made this movie was that the primary system

is an invention of the nineteen seventies. I had always presumed the primary system had been around for a hundred years. I mean, I'm not a student of history. I'm more of a student of movies. So what I learned was that with the invention of the primary system in the seventies, all of a sudden, instead of party bosses picking candidates in the back rooms of conventions, that job was given

to us, the constituents. And all of a sudden, you'd have twelve choices for president, and one's a mayor from one city, and one's a congressman from some state, and others governor from another state. It's like, how the hell do we know that these people are? And the response ability fell on on the shoulders of journalists to tell us, Hey, this is who these guys are. And of course, once you asked that question, the next question is, well, what do you want to know? And and we're still trying

to figure that out. We're still trying to figure out what flaws we're willing to put up with in our leaders. So the idea that these guys wound up in an alleyway, um in Gary Heart's alleyway. Like, I get where they were coming from. I just also think there were real percussions. And I saw the movie I Tell You Ride, you know that's where it premiered. I believe we're premiere when

you opened that night. You said something along the lines about that, just I wanted to make something that maybe I could tell us how we got where we are, and you left it that kind of big This all speaks to that, you know, But would you say the kernels of where we are really are in something like this or you know, is there is there something kind of like classic, almost classical about this journey, this downfall

of this character. That's something that goes back even further. Maybe, Well, I think that this moment in eight seven is defined by, like some of the things I mentioned earlier, I think, uh, the in mentioned the twenty fur news cycle. I think a generation of journalists who grew up on Woodward and Bernstein and kind of shifted their impression of what their job and the responsibility was. Um. I think it's a lot of things. And look, I think this general tabloid

journalism driving into the lane of political journalism. I think these things were happening, uh, and Gary Hart stepped into this moment, and in that moment you get a guy who simultaneously had big ideas was prescient beyond all imagination. I mean Gary Hart went to George Bush and said, we're gonna be attacked by planes. I mean, this is a guy who's been able to see the future, you know, from the beginning. Uh, but it's also a flawed human being.

But it's also someone who was unwilling to lie about who he was. Like, this is the big question that comes up. Is this word character, right, you know, they say, oh, well,

what does this say about his character? And the question back is one of the things it says is that he was unwilling to lie and pretend he with someone else and doing a year of penance, then come back and do some you know, get some punditory job or you know, some gig on cable news, and then uh, you know, earn our forgiveness and then uh, pretend just because he wanted the job. He genuinely thought this was irrelevant. I don't know what the answer to that is. Maybe

it's relevant, maybe it's not. Maybe sometimes it's relevant. And Matt By says, is really, well, it's Jay Carson says as well, he goes prior to seven, it was never relevant. After eighty seven he was always relevant, and neither is true. The truth is somewhere in between. Um, but he was unwilling to have that conversation, and he did the courtesy of walking away. Like. Look, he lives in Denver, in the same place that he lived in seven They've been

married for sixty years. He's written over a dozen books. He's been kind of living his own life. He hasn't been, you know, asking us to kind of bend to his will. Uh. What do you think of the movie? It was an interesting experience and I brought the I brought the movie to show him, uh in Denver, And as you can imagine, that's the scariest screening of my life. And it's the first time I've ever made a movie about real events for people. Real people who are alive are going to

see it. I mean that's not only him, but Donna Rice. Donna Rice was the first person who showed the pilone Toel. And I think there's a a general empathy that all the characters involved feel. Uh. Look, this is a story that most people think of the Gary Heart story, and they just kind of sum it up as a joke. Right. They think of it as the name of a boat, a photograph. Uh, And it's kind of become like a

it's almost like a meme. Right, But we don't think of it as real events, real events that had consequence, but the participants of which have been treated as a joke for the rest of their lives. Donna Rice, I mean, you know, there was a young, bright, ambitious woman whose life has just ripped out of her hands. And who you know, you know what really happened to people? Men on a boat in head chemistry? Yeah, like that's what

happened now. Um, what we tried to do was make a movie that treated everyone involved as a human being. Uh and what not only Gary Hart, but Donna Rice and Tom Feeler from the Miami Heraldo I showed the film too. Of all felt as though we the film treats them with decency and with humanity. Uh and and frankly, from there it becomes of the audience's choice how they feel. Uh what who they considered the hero of the film, who they want to kind of latch their hook there? Yeah, well,

on that note, the movies out now. It'll be unfolding steadily. I guess this is a platform really right, Yeah, it will be wide by Thanksgiving. It'll be wide by Thanksgiving, so you should check it out. The movie is called The front Runner, and also check out totally which is out on Blue Read DVD and all that stuff. Now appreciate that that is his Jurassic Park and uh, the front Runer would be his Schtler's List. Oh my god, you gotta stop about that's just absolute nonsense, disrespectful of

a spill. Right, Um, appreciate it. But yeah, great work on the movie. Very complex stuff and I'm glad we could chew on it here a little bit. Everyone check it out. Be curious to hear what people have to say. Look, this is a movie that you were gonna walk out of having a conversation with the person you just saw it with. Um and uh uh, and we need opportunities

for conversation. Go this is you go on Twitter and that you get your head ripped off because the volume is at a twelve and the story kind of acts as a prism, so you can have that conversation. It's an entertaining right, Don't get me wrong. I mean the story is a bit of a spriller, but walking out of it, Um, you're inevitably going to get into a conversation. Glad we could get you in here. Finally, Jason Rightman, thanks for doing the show mana