Ep76 - Toni Collette / "Hereditary"

the film, and a whole lot more so. Sit tight. This is playback, same thing, every day, same thing, every day for several years. Really, what is it? Um, It's a couple of boiled eggs and some gluten free to hoast. It's some avocado. What about you? Changes every day? Change? You're fascinated by having like a strict breakfast regiment. It's not street, It's just I love it. It's just what you like. Sometimes I include salt and butter, which is delicious.

And my husband makes an incredible hot sauce. What is it? What does he put his hots aus It's a secret, okay, secret recipe. You're good, Dan, I am good, sweet, thank you, thank you. I have a great one. And see you. What did I have today? I had a shake? You recorded it. No, no, it's not like what did I have my check count? Frozen banana. It's some frozen blueberries in there. Frozen blueberries, little almond, butter, spinach. That sounds good. All the stuff that I'm just not going to get

to otherwise throughout the day. Perfect you want to close, just crack it a little bit. That's all right. I must seem so demanding for you. You're fine, honey. But we are recording and we're gonna jump in. I'm here today with Tony Collette, star of Hereditary, which scared the poop out of me in Sundance, which she says she's heard a lot lately. First of all, thank you for doing the show. So you're hearing that a lot people are frightened by your work here intensely intimidated and frightened

five minutes ago. Yeah, I mean it is pretty confronting. There's nothing it's quite yeah, it's quite ballsy, fearless. It goes to places, um, most films that want to do well kind of stare away from and it has. It has a lot of surprises, but not in a gratuitous, kind of sensationalized way. M Absolutely, it's ah as I was telling you right before the show. I went to sundanswer for the second half of the First of all,

I didn't know anything about the movie. I recommend anyone that goes to see it you don't read about try not to read about it. I think that's the same for every film. I'd rather not know a thing, but certainly with this one for sure. Yeah, we're going to get into that in a minute, but I wanted to jump back and play a little bit of this is your life with you a couple of those questions, just

curious while you're an actress, like we'll start again. To be honest, I think it started because I didn't know how to express myself very well, and I felt pretty overwhelmed by my emotions. I was a teenager, my grandmother had just died, and I did god'spell at school. So a I got to hang out with the guys in the school next ll be, I got to sing, see,

I got to emote. It was expected of me, and it's so it became like an outlet and I think um for a while, it kind of used it as such, and then my relationship with acting has changed and deepened, and that's interesting, so a very personal reason. Well, this is what I'm did you say? I mean, I'm only I'm trying to figure it out still because it's kind of I think if you you know, actors with right intention, um,

there's like an inevitability to it. There's like you have there's a feeling of like a knowledge that this is what you need to do. It's strange, UM, but I suppose with anyone who feels passionate about what they do, they have that kind of feeling and it's hard to explain and it's hard to kind of figure out the

genesis of it. But I think that that was well, that was the first time I was on stage apart from you know, dance recitals from the age of three, UM, and it was it felt really profound, and even at the age of fourteen, I think I can't remember exactly exactly what AGA was. Um, it felt special and profound, and it helped me connect to myself and it still does do that. That's awesome. Well, you know, were there any like inspirations like um, you know, it's interesting to me.

This is a very personal reason to get involved in the in the profession. A lot of times it's like, Oh, I saw so and so in a movie or so and so on stage, and I felt like I had to do that, But later on did that kind of I mean, certainly they were. I don't know. I've never had and I have been asked this before, like who do you love to who's your idol? And I I don't.

I don't there. You know, there are people whom I admire and whose work is really outstanding, but there's no one person that inspires me or that I try to emulate or try to mimic what they've created. I think we each have our own path in life, and um it's not even that. Honestly, I still don't even have some grand plan and thinks it's what really just putting one foot in front of the other. I didn't think I would have a career. I just really enjoyed acting,

and actually I still feel the same way. It's just something that I love to do and it helps me to learn. It makes me see life from many different perspectives through the many different characters, and um so in a way it kind of. I don't know. It keeps me learning, and I think that's important to maintain a curious mindset. Is the escape of it all appealing or is that sort of a cliche? Well, like I said, well, maybe it's a double edged sword, because not even a sword.

Maybe it's a case of both connecting with myself more deeply because I'm using myself to to bring some kind of truth to someone else's story. But also also it is probably perhaps um at times, moving away from myself and deepening someone else's story. But I'm pretty sure it's both, And I'm not sure if the balance or the ratio, and it probably differs from job to job and character to character. Yeah, well let's start talking about this one. You know, as I said, very scary. How did it

read on the page? Did it read haunting and scary on the page? It just felt heavy? I mean I had explicitly said to my representation, I do not want to do anything heavy. I just wanted to make funny movies and I wanted to be like for a while, because I've done a few jobs that was started, it felt like it was starting to kind of accumulate, and I just wanted to shake it off, Taylor. Sorry, she

was impressive. Actually, I've never seen her. I had seen her play before, ironically at at some festival in Sydney many years ago, when she was very different to how she is now. Yeah, it's a funny thing she's doing. She's kind of straddling this kind of new emerging self of hers but still really appealing to the ten year olds in the audience. That's going to be a tricky line to war. Yeah, but she did it. She's so

positive and she smiles and is pretty impressive. Anyway. Um, we were talking about how it read on the page, and you didn't want to do anything heavy. So I was doing a somewhat light film. I was shooting in Paris, I was in a different times on. I got this call and I was and my agent said, I know he didn't want to read anything. I'm not interested in anything like this, but I really think you should take a look at it. So, you know, I listened and

I read it and I couldn't stop reading it. And and it's it's a deep, profound, somewhat emotionally heavy, revelatory, highly original screenplay slash now film. Um. And then after we you know, I called my agent back, and I was like, because I knew I had to do it. There's just something in me that it was undeniable material. I had to do it. It spoke to me somehow on in a deep way. Um. And then did you come to Ori the director, saying I want to do this?

He didn't know. I said I really liked it and I wanted to meet him, and so we met in back when I was back in l A. And I don't know if you've met him, but spoke on the phone. Okay, Um, he is incredibly articulate. I'm sure you would have heard that, but he's everything about this man, and his process is so thoughtful and so considered and very meticulously specific. So I felt immediately that he knew what he was doing.

And I'm pretty sure maybe even years before we even stepped on set, he knew what he was going to do, shot for shot, cutting points, every single nuance. So I get really excited when I find somebody like that to work with, who's very much at the helm of their own story, has an absolute vision and it's still willing to collaborate and is just as married to the material

as you are. Because as an actor, you know, you're putting it out there, and there's a certain amount of vulnerability, and you want to know that you're someone meeting you. You know, there's a sense of support, and he was all of those things and um, and he's also one of the kindest people I've ever worked with. He really is. That's always helpful. Yes, it is. I agree that you make a point there. It's interesting to me sometimes how

actors respond to filmmakers. You know, they're filmmakers who go in and they'll just kind of spray everything, they'll shoot it all and they'll try to find things later. And we're very experimental, and then their directors are obviously going with a very definitive division each shod so you kind of prefer the latter, I guess. Um. I really am

not specific about that per se. It's just more a matter of them being completely completely immersed and dedicated and being in it as deeply as I am, so that it doesn't feel so alone alone. Yeah, really, that's it. Yeah, I think that's the difference between a because then he knows when he can see when I'm on it, and

he'll he will step back. He doesn't kind of get you know, when it's there's one scene towards the end of the film which was shot towards the end of the the shoot itself, and you know, every single utterance was specific, but in this one particular scene it kind

of just needed to take on its own energy. I think I did it once and I just knew it wasn't right, and there was gonna it was gonna be this one very long shot and then there was going to be a bit more slightly more traditional coverage, which is there is not much of in this film, which is quite admirable. Um, And so I just thought, I don't know, it was kind of a case of throughout

the whole film, I just had to do it. I kind of resisted it until I really had to do it, and then in that moment, I was just like, funk it, I've got to do it. And so I just let everything go, let it happen. And he responded to what I did so um incredibly, he just decided to He was like, we don't need anything else, so he just moved on and left the scene alone. And it's a

really big scene. It's all in one shot now, So that was that was that was exciting, and also I think when you really really get it and it's really really real and in the gut, Um, you can't do it twice. It's a moment in time and I was

I just loved that he left. Which scene was that, Um, there's a scene at the end where I'm begging my husband by the beautiful guy real learned to do something unimaginable and pretty much I'm kind of, you know, explaining how much I love him and how I need to sacrifice a lot of things and trying to get him

to help me. I want to make sure you're talking about the table scene, because the table scene, which is obviously very explosive and was well used during Mother's Day during the marketing, that was, Oh my god, it was perfect. But I did talk to him on the phone of a while back and he had mentioned there was during that scene. He was like, I knew I had it pretty early, but I just wanted to boil myself with more tony little ship. It was funny around that that

particular dinner table scene. Um, there was an air of it being like something people had to kind of tread on eggshells around, But I didn't feel that way. It was. It all felt like that to me. So when that scene came up, I could kind of feel everyone treading lightly and being you know, and I was like, guys, come on, that's just it's just another scene. And I yeah,

I just I guess, um, well, they're watching. If you if you start to imagine that somethings are more important or bigger or whatever than others, it's too much pressure. It's all just got to be equal. That makes sense. I mean, they're sitting there watching you go to these really intense places throughout the movie, so they you know, scene pops for them. And he did mention that everyone was kind of waiting on that scene to play out. Like I said, you go to a very dark place.

It's very wicked. Just I don't even I don't know how to adequately ask you this, But how do you get to that place where you're literally scaring me on screen with your form. It's not not with what happens toward me in the movie, but just like just where you're at emotionally, it's so intense and I just I marvel at it. I don't know how to explain what I'm saying, But how do you get to that police

for this movie? Um? You know, usually when you start a movie, the first few days at least there are lighter scenes with few less dialogue, if any dialogue at all. And I turned up and had to go straight into some of the most intensely emotional stuff I've ever had to do, with loads of dialogue and at crazy house of the day and night. And I think it was just a matter of accepting that this is what it was. I just had to I just had to show up, and I had to do it. I had no choice.

I kind of, you know, I knew I really read it. I'd spoken to Ari. We've had you know, conversations at length, a couple of times, we had a small rehearsal period with the kids, and um, I you know this. I think it always helps when script is brilliant, and it really really was. Um And you know, it's an actor's job to make something feel truthful, and as you see, it is how I read it. So I just, you know, went for it. I think all actors want a chance there.

You know, you're only ever as good as the opportunity you're given. And I feel like Ari just wrote something so so incredible I would have been addict not but it in you know, like, um, what an opportunity. It was really an amazing, amazing gift. I can't believe he sorry chose me, like all the curse words possible. Um yeah, I feel incredibly lucky and just dark and heavy and intensely exhausting than it was. It was somehow very very satisfying.

The family dynamic is you know, do you drawn personal stuff for something like that? I mean, just you know that always feels wrong, It always feels too. I mean, I think all actors somehow do use all of their experiences because you are using yourself and you are using your emotional Um. I was going to say toolbox. It sounds so wanky and accurately I hate talking about acting,

but oh yeah, just because it is. Actually it's kind of a mystery, and I love that it takes on a life of its own and I'm not entirely in control. I kind of prefer it that way. It feels freer, It feels like there's more of an opportunity for something real to happen, um, and for spontaneity to occur, And the less in control I am, the more satisfying it is. I think. Actually it's kind of a metaphor for life. You know, it's why people meditate. You get to that

place where you're kind of free in it. That's what I love. And there was a lot of that on this. Now that I know you don't like talking about acting, let's talk some more. Well, I just want to now, I want to go down a different path, Like, what do you hate being asked as an actress? I just I mean, I come from a very working class background, so it just feels indulgent and I feel like a

dickhead when really asked to talk about acting. I remember I was asked to be on the jury at the can Film Festival and it was the first time I felt like I was given permission to be able to talk about the art of filmmaking and acting in depth. And it was really lovely. It was a really, really great experience for me, because until that point it just felt it did It felt indulgent, and I feel kind

of self conscious doing it. And also because I don't entirely understand what I'm doing, and I don't want to because I don't want it to be too self conscious, you know. Um, So yeah, anything specific about what I'm doing to make me uncomfortable so hit me feel. Well, let's talk about Aris more. You know, new director. I think this is a debut, right if true speA she

made some great shorts. I don't know if you've I mean, yeah, he's an original voice and he is truly talented, and I'm so excited to see what he does in the future because I think he's going to be around for a long time. And it's not just this genre of film that he's capable of. He's got so many ideas. He's prolific and he has he's an incredible writer, and

he just has such an understanding of the dynamics between characters. Well, you've worked with veteran directors, you've worked with younger directors. What qualities does he seem to have that are necessary you think for like a career of longevity. He's he's able to understand what it is to be human. Ultimately, I think storytelling is about seeing ourselves and feeling connected to ourselves and understanding ourselves and feeling safe in that knowledge.

And I think he's so so smart and so aware, and he's able to capture it on on page and then on film, and his perspective is original. It feels authentic and it's him and he's not. I mean this. I think people are excited about this film because it is unlike anything else that's around at the moment, and you know, horror film. It's not even really entirely a

horror film. It's it's a family drama. It's a very sad study about people dealing or not dealing with loss and how it affects these family dynamics and how they all handle it completely differently. And then as an extension of that, it does become it does become horrific. And I think it's so clever because he's going to get people in to see the movie who just love horror films. But also it's like when I first read it, I said, it feels like the Ice Storm or something like, you know,

it has a poetic quality to it. Um So it's yeah, it's a balance of capturing something very true but also giving it a heightened film quality without taking away from that natural honesty that it possesses. It's really kind of complicated, and he's done it magnificently. I can't wait to see what he does next. Me too, well, I know what he's doing and it is amazing. Do you like scary movies in general? Are you not a horror really? Because my mind is fertile enough and I want to sleep

at night. So you watch this one, Well, it's different when you've worked on it. It's you know, you have a different um relationship to it because you you know you're in it, and there are different memories attached to it. But I have watched it on a small on my computer screen in my hotel room in Manchester when I was working, and so I'm excited to watch it with an audience. And that's another great thing about it. I think this particular film does lend itself to a cinematic

kind of communal experience. It's all fun and perhaps there's a bit of a kind of safety in numbers situation going on. And I looked around. A lot of us were just doing kind of dismember holding their hands looking through your fingers, which I never do, and it's such a cartoonish thing to do, but I was doing this. I was like, yeah, I don't want to say so anyway, good job you sparent have to look. I want to spread out and talk about some other things. I'm actually

talking to Brett Haley after this. We went to film school together, saying I will let's talk about Hearts Beat Loud working on that film, his movie. You talk about a complete reverse by the completely different movie, but such a lovely movie, and his kind of personal stamp has been one of just humanism and just you know, I really like what he's been doing. Yeah, he's gorgeous and I really like his films. And it was such a

total pleasure to work on on Hot Speak Loud. Yes, it was a completely different experience, equally as satisfying, um similar in that everyone was on the same page, dedicated and wanted to make it great, and everyone was kind of hand hitt for what they could bring, and it felt special. It was summer, it was New York. It was fun. It's a beautiful story. It's also about lost to a certain extent, but it's about growth and it's revelatory. But there's hope in this one, whereas in Hereditary it's

really seriously hopeless, which I think is terrific thing about it. Um. But I love working with Brett and Nick and Kiss and the entire crew, and also the film's kind of a love letter to UM, to Red Hook, to Brooklyn, and it was really fun staying there and working there and being there, and it had a really wonderful vibe regarding that and regarding just you know, it was summer, it was New York. It was lovely. Like I like to talk to actors about how environments there everything, especially

with these two movies. Did they shoot hereditary around Park City? Okay, So the house I was staying and looked kind of like the house every night when I came home, I was scared that was on stage just that compound really know what I mean, like the exterior um like whenever it cuts to like the people standing around the house that was. Yeah, that was around Park City. Actually, yes, that was. It looked close enough to my house that I didn't like going home at night. It was in

negated community outs just outside of Park City. It was so beautiful to be in that area when it was not snowing. I mean, it's beautiful when it is snowing. I've only ever been there and it has been several times for the festival for Sundance, So to be there during spring um it was initially we had to get over just you know, there was a lack of air, like the altitude really contributes to your inability to breathe

for a while until you were justked um. And then just the amount of wildlife there and the flora was incredible. So there was a lot of Clareton going around being passed around, but the crew there was incredible. I was really blown away by the crew. We had a lot of fun. I think sometimes when you work on something arc there needs to be a certain amount of levanty levity on set just to balance it out. And it's not it's not intended, but it just naturally, um, happens

that way. I think it's a survivor. It's like a group survival skill. Um. Yeah, but I absolutely believe. I mean everything is energy in life, right, so all the people that you're working with, as well as the story itself, as well as the the actual physical space you're working and I think it all absolutely contributes to the outcome. Yeah, sorry for the actor question. Another active question that was

more general. I guess you just worked with Dan Gilroy and I wanted to talk about that something's called velvet but buzz, so is it called that? Okay? I didn't realize that landed on a title, I guess, So Yeah, I'm a big fan of his. I love what he how he writes regarding environment, the way environment informs character and his work is really fascinating to me. This one has Jake killen Hall and John Malkovit Rene Russo digs what's what's the film about? Because we don't know a lot.

It's said in the art world, um it is. The actual storyline is that, you know, the actual basic narrative is Zale Ashton, who actually is keep saying, actually, let me say it again. Actually we worked together recently on a BBC Netflix TV show called Wonder Last So we'd met when I was shooting in Manchester last year and we worked on that for five months and then it was so crazy that we're both cast in the same

film shooting here in l a. Um So. Her character is kind of up and coming in the art world. She's more of a p a. She finds this guy in her building dies, she finds a whole bunch of work of his next it and it becomes a bit of an art star in that she's representing this deceased artist and it's limited obviously, and um so, yeah, it's about art being monetized, how how it's perceived, what it's worth.

It's about artists achieving quote unquote success and then suddenly having you know, six figures put to their name and absolutely stunting their ability to create anymore. My character is just a complete us. Really well, I don't know. Um very she starts out working at what essentially is Lachma. It's called Lama in the film, and um she leaves to basically earn more money and become a private advisor for someone who buys a lot of art. Um. But there's a lot of pretense in there. There's a lot

of passion in there. And what I love about the film itself is that the art takes on a life of its own. And I think, as as I was saying before, all all art, you know, everything in life is energy, So this you know, That's I guess what I liked about it the most, that this this um, it takes on a very like an actual physical, energetic form. How do you like working with Down? He's a total sweetheart, He's so collaborative, so open um, totally laid back and creates.

I don't like it when I just got like I was on the film for maybe three weeks. I like to be in there in the trenches with the crew all day, every day, and it just feels like I belong there. Right. So when I have a smaller kind of supporting role where I'm in and out, I feel like I'm invading or that I'm some kind of impostor on somebody else's set. So and everybody on that on that set, every crew member was just a master at what they did. Um. So I felt really intimidated, but

it was the warmest, most welcoming um environment. So yeah, I'm really really glad that I did it. I think Dan's lovely Jake made me laugh. Everyone was very very um just open and enthusiastic. I didn't I didn't know what I expected, but it was better than what I expected. Awesome. Yeah, this is the director behind a Nightcrawler and Roman j israel Esquire by the way, if anyone's curious about that.

And uh, I also wanted to talk to you about The Sixth Sense, which is almost twenty years old, which is crazy. It's uh gets brought up a lot with this movie Hereditary because it was you know, you're certainly you're at the end, You're in both films, but the scene at the end of the film is obviously just something that's I mean, I watched the film again recently, and I think you should have won that Oscar for for that alone. It was phenomenal work watching you work,

and I just want to gush a minute. And I'm sorry because I feel like you probably are not gonna like that watching you work in films like that and in this and and just the deep well you're drawing on is phenomenal, and uh so I just wanted to gush there a little bit, and I do appreciate it, thank you, and just talk about, you know, working than Night Shamalan and then just the legacy of that film. Anything come to mind. Well, I mean not just similarly

to Ari. He was pretty new at the time, you know. Um, I think he'd made one other feature that he started, and this was his first kind of big effort. Um oh man, it's so long ago, does it feel like? I tell you what? It is really similar apart from they both kind of have created a story which is very dramatic and kind of stands as a classic drama on its own. And then there's a bit of a without simplifying too much, a bit of a twist, right, um So that's one similarity. They were both both early

in their careers. Um, all the character driven, even though it does become a genre piece, and I love that both films just take their time rhythmically. They're very brave filmmakers at a very early stage in their careers, and I find that so admirable that they know themselves enough and have um strength enough within to not be kind of sometimes people are bullied when they're at that point

in their career. You know, there are certain expectations, You've got to tow this line, we need to connect with this audience that audience, and things become watered down and neutralized, and then there's no voice in it. But they maintained their voices and they made something very original, each of them. And at the time in both films, it did feel like there was something special about it, something undeniable about it. Um, not just to me, but to everyone working on the film.

So um, it's strange, Yeah, twenty years apart to have like somewhat kind of a mirrored parallel experience with fairly new filmmakers. Regarding that scene, does anything come to mind, how you got to the police you had to get to for that scene? Are things become a blur? Um No, No, they're quite crystallized. It's quite the opposite. Um. I mean, it depends on the film and it depends how I mean, for any character for it to feel really you do. And when I say you do have to personalize it,

I'm not talking about drawing on specific things. It's just you somehow have to make it important to you because it is important to that character's life in that moment. And um, and so yeah, when it got when it got to you're talking about the scene in the car where I find out that my son sees dead people and has communicated with my mother, who always an amazing message from beyond. So that I mean, who doesn't have

loss in their life? Who doesn't want to know that there's something beyond a for a start, but also connect with that person that you miss. So it was kind of very I've told you about why I got into acting, I think in the first place. So that was I didn't really have to conjure much out, but just was

bubbled with both feel ms. Actually it felt like whatever was there and required was I didn't have to travel far to kind of find it, And it just kind of bubbled out in a way that, um, I didn't really have to manipulate and didn't really have to be entirely aware of. It was just there. Yeah. Well, I want to close by talking about your production company, which you've recently launched. And I typed the name and that's an auto correct. That's not correct. What's the name of

your production Coocab Films? Well, okay, this is Vocal Films And I was like, I know that's not what it was, Boca Films. What kind of movies do you want to make? What do you want to do with this? I want to make good movies. Really, I don't want to limit myself by boxing myself into one genre. But fast far Um, we're working on a TV that's my producing partner over the j he she likes this question. We're working on

a couple of films. Um. I guess tonally one of them would be considered well, you know what, not even just that, but like, what kind of voices are you interested in amplifying? What what kind of filmmakers do you want to Well, I guess it's an extension of the things that I already gravitate towards. Right, So if you look at the types of characters that I play in the majority of films that I've done, it'll be that vibe.

It's just I want to represent reality. I think there's enough crap in industry that I don't need to perpetuate myths, certainly that women are misrepresented by, and I want them to feel original yet very very familiar. Awesome. Well, you're, like I said, you're so busy, so I keep it up. Everyone should go see Hereditary. June eight is a release date, and uh, you know, be prepared. I'm telling you, thank you, nice to see it. Thanks so much.