Ep62 - Ryan Coogler / "Black Panther"

what you have time? I don't. I don't like you. When I'm filming, I don't listen to him, you know, like like, um, but if I have a commute, if I have a commute, when I would you know when I get when I when I'll be able to like if i'm communing mom in post Like, I can't listen to him when I'm commuting in production. You know what if I'm I'm a prepper or post, I could. So the last one I was really listening to him tough.

It was like when I was you know, when I was making when I was making Create, like we're finishing um uh doing sound on that in the Bay Area, Like when I was at Skywalker Ranch, and it's ranch like a forty five minute commute from from my house, you know what I'm saying. So like I would be able to you know, listen to like Coastal An episode on the drive and then you know, come back. I listen to Um, I Knocked Down, Sereal um and uh um. I don't have time. WHI do you have a commute?

I do? But like music, Yeah, music, music, music wins. But I gotta get in my early nineties music on the way to work. That's it. That is it litium bes man, that's all they want. Yeah, I'm terrified. I'm terrified of that. Man like like it feels so good. It's like it's like it's like a it's like a comfortable blanket. But I always was, always was like always I remember being young and like meeting dudes. I would have like uncles. I was like stuck in a decade.

I think, only listen to music from a certain decade, only work calls from a certain decade. You know what I'm saying. And I'll be like, man it, what's wrong with these It's wrong with these dudes. Many like manyn't make I don't make real music. Anymore. Man, nothing like this, Like so I'm terrified like becoming that person. So like I try to, I try to at least like challenge myself to ye to at least um should be fine these these aren't automatics, right, Okay, then we're fine with

this right here? Yeah? Cool? Sometimes they cut off next time. Yeah yeah, man, I'm I'm unapologetic. I'm I'm early nineties guy listening to my pm don and my pm don he said, a drift on the memory bliss that crazy. It feels good, like I remember me. It's busy. Was

riding in the car, like not too long ago. It was like like we just happened to be listening to the radio in the rental car and and it was like like song after song came on and was like, man, this's just great, Like we're singing along to everything, like oh this is perfect, and we realized by what it's just an old blue station. And then and then sure enough and it was like, oh my god, like you know we had that we had that point where get

that flashback. Yeah, well we're recording. We've got Ryan Coogler here, the director and writer of Black Panther, which you've probably heard plenty about at this stage. If you haven't, you're living under a rock. Thanks for coming on the show man, Thanks for having good to have you here. I saw the movie a couple of nights ago. It's electric. I mean, congrats on you a couple of years. I'm just super happy for you that you got this opportunity and you

made the most out of it. So you know how you feeling, I mean, how you feeling about the finished product that you had the premiere already, so yeah, yeah, I mean I feel, uh, I got complicated feelings about it, man, like like, um, you know, uh, we've been working on it so so hard and for so for so long. Um. That is it's it's kind of strange too to realize that it's time to give it to to to the to the world, you know. Um. It was great about

working with Marvel is that you know you're able. You know you're able to work right until the last minute, you know, um, which is hot, which is how I like to how I like to work. How I was taught, you know, um that you've never done with it to you snatch it out of your hands, you know. Um, So that's kind of how we were. We would constantly refine the constantly trying to make it, trying to make it better, you know, right up into the right up

to the very end. Um uh so. So the good thing about that is, you know, you get you get

a maximum time to work on it. That the bad thing about that is you don't get much time from perspective, you know, so you're kind of just sharing it, you know, and in premieres or you know, that premiere was the first time we played it for for for a real sizeable audience, you know, like like usually you know, with these types of films, you can only show them to two small groups of people, yeah at a time, and you know those people gotta be like India up like crazy,

you know what I mean. And so, um, it's not like with my It's not like with Creed where we can go do a you know, a test mening and and and you know in Nevada in the theater for you know, six hundred people, you know, and see how I see how it plays, you know. So I was the first time she didn't play and you know, my whole family was there from the Bay Area, you know, like, um, you know, my my mom, nine year old grandmother, was there.

We had to you know, and I'm checking I'm checking in on them and stuff, you know, so so it was it was, um, it was. It was uh a strange night emotionally, um. But you know, you gotta say to see people, to see people, you know, seem to be happy and seemed to have enjoyed the film. It's like, you know, it's the what's the world's biggest It's the world's biggest lessing. Purple carpet was awesome. I saw the pictures of that. I was like, oh wow, purple carpet.

It was fun. It was fun to see anybody dress up. Uh you know, I got you know, Disney cart a royal attire on a on a on a on a invite. So people came in African garments and stuff. It it was beautiful to see. Like Daniel who was just talking about he came in like the traditional traditional dress. He was wondering what was going on there. Yeah, well, you know, this is a movie. I feel like it's unique in

the Superhero Afraid. It has something pretty definitive and clear to say about the here and now you know it obviously touches on global race relations, has ideas about borders. You know, it's definitively has something to say. And my first question is just I'm curious if that was a vision, that is that all difficult to get through that Marvel system. I mean I would saying no, not at all, like like, um,

surprisingly so because I imagine that that that it would be. Um. I remember when I first you know, when I first met met the folks over at at Marvel Winnis. It's not a lot of people, you know, like uh um, And I think this, I think the studio used to be running quite a bit different than it is than than it is now. It's been you know, it's it's it's it's it's changed over over over time. Um. Um. But now it's kind of like what you see is what you get there and and and the and the

l A officers that on the Disney lot. You know, you got Kevin Fay, Who's Who's who's the head of the studio. UM companies kind of a brandchild, you know, and um you got you got lou Lou de Esposito um and Victoria Alonso Um. You know both those two are amazing, you know, very different creative and thinks from Kevin. You know, which is great UM for him because they

kind of like the it's chief collaborators, you know. UM and then you got Nate Moore, who who's who was the executive that was a signed to to this, to this project and who had been trying to you know, get black panthers made since he had been at the company. UM he also made when a Soldier, you know, make

Civil War, you know. And then we then we started talking about about this um and when I went to sit down and talk to them, you know, I I thought about what the opportunity would be with this, with this character. You know. They kind of told me what they were thinking about as a company, for the for the character, how they saw him fitting into what they were trying to do um and and they and they say, you know what was you? You know, how was you

want to want to tell the story? So I went away thought about it, watched Civil War, UM you know, uh, and in kind of was able to to to process a lot of the feelings I've been having towards myself, my own personal identity, and my obsession was going to Africa. I hadn't been there yet. I always wanted to um and and and the world to kind of learn about that stuff was was only going as stronger as I was getting older. Um, you know, I came back to them and kind of you know, pitched him the movie

that we that we ended up making. Um for the most part, you know, specifically thematically, UM, a lot of things that we wanted to attack and approach, and I expected them to kind of kind of like, man, let me, let me, let's get back to you, you know what I mean. But but right right there, right there in the room when we were Kevin Sham and that's awesome, we would let him make something like that, Let's do it,

you know, let's get the work right now. And I realized that, you know, for whatever reason, um be it that they they've had you know, a lot of success recently. Um, it's possible that they had a company lay about Bo Bob Igor who's who's very you know, who's very brave and you know, successful and ready to do new things, adventure things in storytelling and in the medium. Um, but that were they were getting for it, you know. Uh. And I was really, you know, really surprised to see that.

And and as as we went through the process, that were constantly pushing me to make it more personally, you know what I mean, making make it more more relevant, which is great. I mean when we talked, we were talking about the last time we spoke about Creed, and that movie was full of you. I mean, it had so much of your personal life in it. So it's great that you can do that and something on this scale, you know what I mean, that's only gonna ground it, right.

And it's also great that they're consistently lately able to have these filmmakers come in with these definitive divisions. I had Taka on the show last fall talking about Thor and you know that was clearly a type of movie I don't know, so more than a Marvel movie, right. So it's great that they're able to have these filmakers come in with their own personal stamps. So, uh, do you feel the sense of you know, history that exists with this project for you? Or you kind of too

close to it to fill those vibrations right now? I think for me, I'm a comic book fan. I'm a movie fan, as we talk about, you know what I mean, And I'm a comic book movie fan. Um, you know, and there and there's been you know, there's been Um, a lot of movies that I've seen, some movies that I love that had you know, you know black superheroes, you know, in the you know, in the in the films Typle Carrious. I mean, I think, like how much I love Blade one and Year Amos Taken on Blade,

Blair Too and West Snipes performance and those movies. And you know, I think about um, I think about Hancock, you know, I think about um even even you know, taking taken it back with you know, with with with

medior Man. You know, still you know what I mean, these these these types of films um and And the truth is that you know, there's this it's felt niche before you know, this is yeah bigger, yeah, yeah, I mean it's just gonna have a bigger skill than all this has a bigger skill, you know, a larger you know,

financial commitment from the studio, um, you know movies. But the the truth is, like you know, this film is about This film is something different because it's about the continent of Africa, you know, and and not just the title character is is is African, but you know pretty

much everybody around that's how the character is African. You know, we were giving incredible opportunities to to to fill out you know, fill up the screen with with African people and people of African decent, you know, um, which which for me was what's really cool because if you know, you look at those, look at those you know, look at those black movies. You know, you know West he tends to be like the only, the only, the only black guy, like you know, I remember Black One is

moms in it, you know what I mean. But but you know, it's it's a it's a it's a black guy, you know, kind of surrounded by the world that that isn't necessarily that you know, which is you know, which is great stories about that as will um. But but but for me, this opportunity was was uh unique because it was like, oh wait, man, we get to make something I truly haven't you know, I haven't truly haven't

seen before. You know, we were kind of uncharted waters in terms of, um, the skill that we're playing with and the fact that we're dealing with the continent of Africa, you know, and and and also exploring with it. You know, for me, the big question for me, the big theme UM and when you talked about you know, we talked about questions like I'm a naturally curious person. The reason I make artists because I'm you know, it's because I'm curious.

If I can find a way to feed my curiosity, UM, that's the best way for me to motivate myself through a completion of a project. And for me, they had the big question starting off, and this was, you know, what does it mean to be African? You know what does that concept me? Um? Because it's one that I

can't I can't answer that myself, you know. UM. And as an African American art history with the with the with the continent is very fraud you know, we're not able to generally able to tire our lineage back um, as a result of a very specific traumatic experience that happened to us, you know. UM. So so how we how we learned about the continent is it skewed you know, through that, through that limb, through that relationship, um, and

how we learn about ourselves excued, you know, UM. And it was always a gap in me, you know, in my own identity, um, surrounded by that, surrounded by that question. It's a question that I had, you know, before I was motivated to make my first two films actually, so in many ways, this is my most personal, the most personal film. Um but but it is that that idea of you know, what it what it truly means to be African, what it truly means to be a person

of African descient in this world. That kind of motivated all of the research, everything that we put into this movie. Did you come up with a personal answer? I mean, I'm still finding it, but I think I think the

biggest thing was for me. You know, I hadn't taken a trip to Africa yet, you know, I was when when when they when they called me, I was finishing up create you know, we met, you know, and I was I was not between nine years old, you know, and I've been wanting to go to this place my whole life, ever since, ever since my parents sat me down and told me I was black, you know, which is I was really young, you know, because you gotta

kind of tell a kid who's who's black? You know what they are because the world is gonna treat you a certain way, as you know, because of it. You know, in certain situations, Uh, when you're black, you know here in this country, your life can be at staky if you make the wrong move, you know what I'm saying. Um. So ever since then, I wanted to go to this kind of almost like mythic place, you know what I mean.

And you see representations in this place in media, and a lot of times the representations that you see, uh are things that make you feel a shame, you know what I mean. It's kind of like sources of shame, you know. Um. Um, you see you know, starving children, you know what I mean. You see you see people that that that in the need of a from other places you know. Um, it's just strife, chysical strife, you know. Um. If there aren't things that make you that, I make

you feel proud, feel proud of you know. Um. And in that ship, as I got older and learn and learn more, I learned. I learned a lot of a lot of the struggles we deal with, you know, kind of come as a result of that needs, a global struggles. I'll meet people out of from the continent and talk to them, let's talk to talk about things that they're going through. I asked them about news reports that I've seen,

about the pleasures that they're from. And a lot of times the answer it we always deeper than that, you know. And and I kind of explained you know. Um, but but but on my trip, you know, on my trip back to the continent, man, like you know what I'll discovered. It's kind of like what I knew all along. Um, to be Africans means to be human, you know, Um, you know what I mean. It means it means you you you love art, you know what I mean, so

much that you that you put it everywhere. You know, you put it on your clothes, you put it on your body, you know, Um. And you'll make art out of anything. You know, if you only got if you only got dirt and wood and sticks, you're gonna find a way they make all out of that, you know. Um. To be African is to be. It's to be you know, It's to be beautiful. It's just to love. It's to love your family so much that even when they die, you still don't let them go. You talk about them

if they still right there. Um, to be Africa is that love to dance, you know what I mean? And it dance until you can't you can't move anymore, and still dance some more. And if I say that, I mean you can say that about any human being. You know what I mean, because because that's where all human beings come from. You know, it's scientifically proven, you know, um So, to be African is just to be human.

Um And for whatever reason, you know, I hadn't seen much much media that that that that that showed that, you know, um So, I was. It was really exciting to be able to export that on this campus, on this campus pop culture media. Where uh, where in Africa did you go? Countries? I went to. I went to South Africa first, um And I was for a couple of reasons. When I when I when I watched the

film Civil War, which how you come out check? Uh, I saw that that Shadwick and um um actor Dr John Connie, who played his father in that film, we're speaking in a language that I had never heard before. It was a language that sounded ancient and an interesting. Um So when I so, when I got out of the movie, I went and talked to U Nate Moore and Kevin Figy and I asked what languages that I thought they hadn't been to the language for the for

the film. You know what kind of like, um you've been Valkan and Romula or something you know, or or the Elvish language and Lord of the Rings. You know, I was really taken by and they said, oh no, that's that's uh, that's something that kind of happened by a happenstance, you know. Um, you know, Dr John Conny is South African from from a close our tribe. I'm an muttered this, but but it's but it's it's uh, you know, you said, it's a language that that developed

with clicks. It's very old language. And he's from the close our tribe in South Africa. And he taught Chadwick the lines that they were supposed to say in that language because they felt like an African king and African princeship speech speaking African language when they're talking amongst each other. Um. And and so I said, okay, so that's the kind of language, you know what I mean, clost Our language. So I said, well, I'd like to go where I can find all these people, you know what I mean,

and maybe I'll started to start my research there. So I went to I went to Cape Town first in South Africa, and I went completely by myself. Um. It was right before I got married, um you know, um, and I felt like I felt happy that this project and that with me to to to to learn learn more about myself, you know, with this ship before you know, before taking that next the next major step in my life,

you know. UM. And so I was by myself, went to Kpe Town, went to Johannesburg, and then I went to a I learned about the country while I was there, called the sut Um the Kingdom of the Sto, which is an enclave you know, inside of South Africa. UM. For whatever reason, they hadn't gotten colonized the same way that the areas around it did. It's very poor country, UM, isolated,

not many people know about it. And I was I said, oh wow, man, maybe what Kanna could be something like that, you know, because I hadn't even heard of this place, you know, UM as an American saw the foot of the Suo to and and I and I learned that the reason that that that it that it didn't get colonized in the same way that the rest of Africa did was because it has these really intense mountainous regions where snows like crazy, and the people there are ski

you know, on snow and ski snow cover ski slopes and the tribes around there wear blankets. They were these beautiful blankets. So that's kind of where I got the idea for one of the tribes you know in the film um And you know, I took pictures of of of of h shepherds that were those blankets, like what I thought was completely beautiful. Um. You know. And and it's a kingdom, you know what I mean, It's like like uh, the Kingdom of the suits too. It's called

the Mountain Kingdom, you know. But it's very very poor, you know, it's kind of cut off from from from from the same trade relations in South Africa has you know, as a result of them um not being colonized in the same way. Um. But but but that trip was eye opening. And there from there I went to uh went to Kenya, where I hung out with Lupete's family.

You know. Lupete's family kind of took karre me and Nairobi took me around to me gonna spend time with the Massai charges me to Massai land um and and it was you know it was Lupete wasn't there. She was she was hearing the stade working. Um but I family was was incredible. I meant with professors, you know, kind of talking about what I was doing, went to go listen to music concerts, spend time with spend time

with random families, and went to rituals that they had. Um. You know, while I was there, I kind of learned that a lot of the things that a lot of things that that that are done on the continent, that they call rituals, that think that they've been doing for thousand and thousands of years, we do as African Americans in the States, and we don't really know why we do it, you know what I mean, we just we just do it. We just call it hanging out or we'll call it, you know, a party, or we call

it this and that. But it's it's literally like the same exact things. So so the trip kind of taught me that that, yeah, we still do you know, we still we still connected to the continent, you know, even if you don't know it, like you know, those things, those rituals, those things that we do are still in us. Um. So it was really moving. You know, I felt I felt like whole from that from that trip. That's awesome. All that comes through in the movie too, that's assassurated

with you know, obviously what you learned. Well, I'm curious to just like, what kind of input do you have on a movie like that? Is this massive when it comes to the visual identity of the movie in the marketing, because that is such a huge element of the identity of a movie like this, and given that it's such a personal movie, I would think maybe you'd like to have a hand in that, But I don't know. You tell me, like, what what kind of ideas did you

have for that? Were you able to provide for that? I mean yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, you know, like uh, I mean, obviously the visual identity of the movie. You know, um, I have a big influence song, you know, because we were making the movie, you know, um and in the Disney Disease marketing department you know, headed up Ricky Strawson and the sold yeahs.

You know, they're brilliant, you know, um, and and that they have an imagined way of capturing the essence of the films that they're working on, but at the same time using their own knowledge of what it takes to put butts in seats, you know what it what it takes to get people excited. In the poll from like a four quadrant you know, marketplace. UM. So it's kind of like a blend of all those two things. But

but you know, they were incredibly collaborative. You know, they watched they watched cuts of the film early on before they cut the trailers. They talked to us, you know, the filmmakers, but me, me and us and you know a lot of times with me and Nate and Kevin, um, you know, we would see cuts of trailers and and and and had a chance to to give you feedback. Um uh get to get to kind of have a

same music sometimes, you know. UM. And they and they were extremely helpful in terms of uh assistant that's with with getting to Kindrick Kendrick deal done, you know, um uh and supportive you know in terms of that, UM talk about Kendrick, what was you know bringing him out of this project in this way? What was that about?

I mean, it was it was it was it was a blessing man like like um if for me, you know, I work with I work with an incredible composer, um a little bit garing song who yeah, yeah, who who Who's Who's Who's a great composer and the music producer as well and he and I have a have a crazy level of music, you know what I mean. We were listening to music together before we started to make make films together. And one thing that he's time to that is is he's time to that, you know, constructing

a authentic orchestral score. But he also produces, you know, hip hop music and in pop music. So so you know, one thing that was a dream of ours always was to was to make a film, but to also have a soundtrack that that that played along with the film. You know, where we use a couple of songs from the soundtrack in the movie, but it's another piece that people can experience the film through um that maybe diverts from it a little bit, but still has the same

the same story, the same soul there. And and I've been a fan of Kenji Kenji Lt Morris since uh Sin his mix tape days, you know, since I was in film school and he was dropping you know, he was dropping mix tapes, and I'll be kind of you know, kind of hunting them down, you know, and always enjoying his always enjoying listening to his music and fund finding the motivational and and and thematic uh And eventually Um I think like maybe maybe maybe two or three years back,

I got to meet Athony Tipic who runs TDE was kind of named after music names top Dog. UM. And I met him through Charles King, who who was my agent then but now he runs uh my a Cross Studios. UM. He put me put Top and Eye in touch. We would talk, you know, um, you know, stay in touch and look look for some for Kendrick and out of

working together. UM. And then about two years ago, I right after I right after I finished Creed and it was released, I was able to sit down with Top and Kendrick and uh and Dad Free over at t D and we just sparked about some things that that that he was working on, let them know what I was working on, and I'll be taking this project. UM. And then I let him, you know, I let him work with him on this win and if the opportunity came.

I think he was working on Damn at the time. UM. And then he finished that up and it timed up. You know, it worked out that you know, he uh he you know, I reached out to him again, UM in in top of the top seller. Let's let's sit down and meet you know those guys cand of Marvel Studios. UM, we showed them some footage and um, next thing we knew Kendrick was in Um you know, and then he came by, came by a little letter and you watched,

you know, watch most of the movie. UM, and we talked about you know, he talked about what he would you know, what he thought of it and uh. And then you know, you talked about artists. You know that he would like to work with artists that I was always interested and seeing with the how they can contribute. UM. And then he went away and he went to work. You know, it makes some makes some really beautiful stuff,

you know, some stuff to send a movie. UM. His producer, sound Wave, worked with Louvig on something really cool with that's in the movie as well. UM. And Louvig was just kind of a mastermind that weaving in and weaving out of school in in kind and sound Wave and those guys stuff. UM. So I'm really excited to hear

what people with people, Uh, hear what people think. It's a great soundtrack, man, I mean just the way you can sense those moments where it comes in to score and comes out and just you know, the beat drops and it's just again more of the unique flavor of the movie. That's just makes it something special. In the fray, Ruth Carter, Man, I want to talk about Ruth Carter and the whole all the design elements of the movie

are on point. Actually, an old film school friend of mine was one of your art directors in Atlanta, Carroll. But the Ruth Carter is a legend, and she is the obvious choice to work on this movie. So I just want to talk about working with her. And yeah, Ru's amazing, man like, she really is. She she um, you know she costume design a lot of Spice movies, you know, work with spiel right before, you know. But I mean I remember seeing I remember seeing you know,

Malcolm Max when I was a baby. You know what I mean. She's being blown away, Um, how really felt especially felt the epic it felt. You know, you talk about you know, you talk about superhero movies, man like you know, you know, Spike Leaves, Micoel max I was a superhero movie in my book, you know. Um, and and just just just about the scale and in a weight, you know what I mean that it was given and a and the and the um and in the in the lands that it was shown through, you know, the context.

You know, I think that that roof. I mean, she's she's amazing, man. You look at what she's done with Avery, with Summer. You know. Um, she's so varsato you know in this in this um, this film was it was years of no Brander when I found out she was interested, you know, um, and working with her was terrific. I mean, you know, um, and it's interesting like she she's so

so collaborative, you know, because I had Marvel. Um you have a have a department called visual Development, you know, where they kind of workshop all that the hero uniforms you know, Um, it's hair headed up by guy named Ryan Minor Dame who's a coming book you know, comic book Glover and the artist who develops these things, and

and Ruth. You know, I was able to to look at the look at the stuff that Ryan was doing, you know, for the for the for the Panthers suit, you know what I mean, for the Dora costumes and things of that nature, and and and and emerge and melted and constructed, you know, and up the value of it, you know, um, and also put it in with all the amazing costumes that you see on the characters throughout the film, and you know, personally making the traditional costumes

and and you know, and the costumes when the characters go all undercover, you know, and still finding a way to uh make sure they feel with conna still you know what I mean. But it's realistic that people don't pick them out. Um. And the green dresses with Peter wears and that one, that's all. That's all ruf. Yeah, that's all rufe man. Yeah. And and and for us, we had you know, working with another incredible designers, Hannah Bickler where who was our production designer? Who did you

fruit Reale creating? She handed the Moonlight, you know, she did Beyonce's Lemonade. Um. Uh, we come up with a color story, um because because for us, you know, so many characters in this film, you know, and every film we worked on, we try to make the color story

you know. Um, So for this with so many characters in this film, you know, you'll see characters only where generally the only wear a specific color you know, on every scene at the end, no matter what they're wearing, you know, we kind of color story, uh drive it. And and we assigned um specific uh ideas and concepts of each color, you know. Um so, so Rufe was

able to take that. What are some examples on that, well, uh so so for so, for example, if you look at the color purple, then to cover the color purple in the in the in the film represents royalty and spirituality, you know, um so, so you'll see that the harshhyped herb you know, and everything related to the hardshype of Irish purple in the film, you know, and and forest whose complied the spiritual leader of what kind of you know, it's constantly and you know, it's constantly in some form

of shype with purple. You know, the child as the black panther, you know, but he's also you know, a spiritual god, traditional guy in the royal guy. So you often see his black accident with accident with purple, you know. Um. The color red is like the color of like the Messiah warriors in red, black and green, you know, kind of the colors of Africa, the Pan African flag, the

Pan African you know, liberation flag. Um you know, the rare kind of represents the blood of the people with the black versus the skin and the green represisting land the fart the farther land. UM, the kids from the river tribe. So you're always seeing the kid shyes, of green.

I would like the color of that tribe um in in green and kind of color color opportunity to color change, you know, the color color innovation, you know, UM and you know red being the symbol of blood, you know, and for us loyalty and warriors, that was the color of the door. So you always see Deny, you know, in some form of real We also actually at the medals you know, for for royalty and rank. You know, DENI is the only door as you see with the

gold with the gold actutions. All the rest of them have you know, had the regular silver vib running mac since cool and I wanted to I should have asked this at the top, but I'm just curious what your first experience with the character was when you comments Charlotte oh Man, Yes, it's an interesting UM, because I got into comics from my older cousin UM when I was really young, like like like barely I would have read you know, I would read his comics and he read everything, man,

but his coolest one. I always started with the ex men comics, and I love Wolverine, you know, so like I read his his Wolverine comments. They had the weapon ex commics, all the Wolverine standing loans Man, we had the big long clause, you know, big here, you know, the crazy ninety stuff. Um, so I love that stuff and I and I continue to read them. Um. I couldn't know. I didn't really have My parents wouldn't really give me money like that, so I couldn't really I

couldn't really buy them. But I would go to this comic book shot that was by my m I was by my school, uh and I was I was going there in between like school and basketball practice of school and daycare, and I would just read comics till they kicked me out, you know. And I remember one day I went in because I was thinking, you know, I like to read a comic pot that's based on a black guy. You know, I've seen all these different different books, and you know often times that the black folks kind

of relegated to this to the to the size. Um, I just think X me and they had to. You know, I had Storm, who was really awesome, and they had Bishop, but it was rare that she really got into that to the to the to the story. You know, they're kind of like you know, you know, solide characters. Um. So I asked, man, you need books like that here, you know that that have have a black guy, you know, or a black person at the forefront, you know, And comic book shot worker was like, yeah, as a matter

of fact, we do. So he walked me over to to to a little section. Uh they had black panther, you know, and he kind of told me about him and walking me, you know, walking me through you know, who he was and what he did, you know. And it wasn't like you know, the issues. Man, they might have been on issue number whatever, you know what I'm saying. So you can't get the real origin of it in there, you know. But so I so I picked it up

and read it and and I loved it. But I also felt a little bit disconnected from it, you know, um, because I was like, man, this dude was not This dude is not me. He's he's African, you know what I mean. I didn't see myself as Africa and I saw myself as African American, you know, um, you know in my mind, and it was it was a big difference you know, Um, I didn't you know, I didn't never been an African. You know, I didn't know my heritage. You know, I didn't have a cool African name, you

know what I'm saying. Like, you know, so I was kind of like, uh, still not it, you know. Um. But as as I got older, you know, um, and I got a lot cooler, you know, when with the writers taking really different types on them and making him, making him just as awesome as, if not more awesome than the other characters around him in the Marvel Commerce universe, I started to get I started to get more into it. You know. Um, we're still we're still we'll still probably

still get put a gun in my head. Probably still more of a Batman guy than anything else, you know. Um, But but you know I was, I was into it, you know. And then uh, you know, recent times came and you know, the Hickman runs. You know, you're just getting cooler and cooler, you know what I mean, you pick it up and like it's like really really utilizing all of his awesomeness. And then the cult around I came.

We're trying to hosk him, Brian stell Freeze and that's and that was just like the pinnacle of how cool black Panther could be, Like all of my all of the all of the the the thought that, like so I thought I would have a bottom seeming, it seemed to start to go away and and how cool to women around and started to like really really be highlighted, you know. So, And I was right around the time I started talking with with with natives. Will um, you know,

so I kind of put it over the top. It's awesome. I wanted to just branch out this a couple of things before I let you go. Is your next movie going to be? Wrong? Answer? I'm not sure my next movie is man like like it's it's uh, I can't

even think about it right now. Yeah even no, no, no, But I wanted to talk about that because if indeed it is, and certainly it's on your plate anyway, it's it's I appreciate the fact that you're willing to scale back, you know, after doing something masses And this is a fascinating true story. It's about these teachers who faked students test scores but in order to keep the school's funded. I mean, it's a complex story. It's not as simple.

It's just cheating texts. No, it's a it's an INCREDI it's an incredible story, man like, Um, it's an incredible story. It's an incredible it's an incredible project. Um. You know it's based on based on the amazing artists by amazing article by roding A Rachel viv Um the New Yorker. Yeah, yeah, the New Yorker. And and and it's about an amazing guy you know that Demanti Lewis, who's actually from Oakland, Um, who's who's out there uh teaching actually going to Clark

Atlantic University. And it's it's it's a it's a story about it's just it's a story about a person who found who found who finds their calling, um, which is which is educating kids. Um. But but it's in it. But it's in a system that is that is that is so broken you know, um, Um that that they that they for whatever reason, only see one way one way to uh to to do their job, you know,

which is which to do something you know illegal. Um. It's just a heartbreaking story but incredibly interesting, incredibly uh all inspiring. Um. You know. And I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope I get to make it. You know what I mean. It's got incredible people you know, attached to it. You know, playing b Um has the rights, you know. You know Jammy, Jammy Kleiner and d D. Garner over there. You know they make great movies. Um, and uh, you know we're hoping to make it with Mike,

Michael B. Jordan's um talking calls. Who were just talking about um? You know you don't helping to write it, um, but I'm not sure what what's what's what's going on, What's going on, what's going on next? You know? All that those really all those folks are really busy people, man. And I'm and I'm frankly focused on getting Black Panther onto the world right now. Definitely. Well, you mentioned Michael there. Michael, hopefully you'll make that with him, and he's obviously got

a sweet rolling Black Panther. Did you like him? Oh? Man, that's good. But I just want to talk about that ongoing collaboration. What is it about it that works so well? I mean Number one is Mike really times you know, it's like it's like a coach who who culturees Lebron James and Steph Curry your first time out. You know, you know, you don't want to trade them. You know what I'm saying, keep now, you keep them around um foot.

For this project for Black Panthers specifically, the thing that was so exciting about working with Mike on that for this was because you know, you said, you're a nineties guy, man, you know, like I'm you know, we're the same mage roughly, I think, right, And and I came up watching films and not okay, yeah, okay, yeah, but but I came up watching those films in the nineties man. And and you talk about like like black super heroes, man for For for us, it was it was like three of them.

You know what I'm saying. It was you know you had you know, you had you had Denzel. You know, you have Will Smith, and you had Wesley, you know. And these are guys who would make these massive movies and they would be these amazing heroes. And you can tell they had acting shops, you know, in physicality, you know what I mean. And and I was always the guy who was always waiting for, you know, the Will

Smith Denzel movie. You know what I mean. We're Will Smith and Denzel either went head to head or when Will Smith and Denzel is like teamed up on some buddy cops. Shit. You know what I'm saying that you went on and did their thing, you know, for whatever reason at that time. You know it didn't It never happen, you know. Um for me, like with Chadwick, you know, Mike, you know these are two, These are two you know,

imagine African American actors. You know, we're smart with chops and they just charisma machines, but totally different types of charisma. You know. Um, to see them go head to head in a movie, you know where they go head to head and turns the performance, you know, head to head and turns the physicality. You know what I mean. Um, I'll just get shorry just thinking about it. Man. It's like Yo's you know, song's like running the clock back and we're giving and we're giving Fox to the Will

Smith Denzel movie. You know that that you couldn't get in there too, by the way, Yeah, man, we were blessed with We were blessed with a really amazing cash and just speaking on he just speaking on the women man like like I'll be I'll be an idiot to to uh to to to jump off this podcast, and I talk about the incredible you know, the incredible women that we had to fill out the cash and and

what they did. Man to be able to have scenes with with Lupita and denying it, you know, and it's just them, I like, of flight, the luckiest you know, luckiest actor in the world, and to be able to um introduced Letitia to the world on a scale like this, you know, not sure I felt, you know, felt incredibly fortunate and be able to work with Angela Bashet as well her hair. So yeah, yeah, no, no, she Yeah,

I felt I felt fortunate. Yeah. Uh. And then this last thing Creed too, Was that ever something that was possible for you to direct? I think a lot of people are disappointed that you won't be at the Helm. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, of course, I mean, of course it was possible. Man. Like um, you know, after that that move Cree was about me and my dad for me, you know, uh so it was it's a you know, it's a movie that it's a movie.

I find it difficult to to watch, man. I can difficult me to even think about it, you know, I got I got so many emotional ties to it. Um not to mention, you know how much I care about the people involved, man like I cared, I cared deeply for for Mike, obviously deeply for testing. Um and I go incredibly costs with slide you're making that man, these people don't want to see. These people don't want to see do well and when you know, uh, at all

at all costs, you know what I'm saying. And um, you know there's there's time and you know um um and and that film you know, for whatever reason, you know they had to go when when it when it's going um, and you know, I think it's I think it's a blessing that it's going. Man, I think that that. Um, it's amazing that they found an incredible filmmaker and Stephen Cabo Jr. Was a guy who I actually went the film school with. Um. Well, I have a lot of a lot of love and respect for it, and I

can't wait to see what what what he does with it. Yeah, I can't wait, you know. Yeah, well, uh, the movie is called Black Panther comes up February six. Uh, Daniel reminded me of February both in the UK. So anyway, early look at it, check it out. It's awesome, and Ryan Man, I really appreciate you coming on show though. Thank you, Chris. Always a pleasure, Bro, you too. I have seen God's fly, I've seen men build weapons that I couldn't even imagine. I've seen aliens drop from the sky. Yeah,

but I have never seen anything like this. How much more you're hiding? How a up? Let's go out? Yeah, my son, it is your time. Tell me about respecting out down you get to decide what kind of king you are going to be. I don't please, I'll never flease. The brothers would not be fell above showing my respect in bad down. We all ye, we don't yet we want to need to sloting down because we only every sided thin thing on wing out, because we only do number because we own never. I waited my entire life

for this. The world's gonna start over. I'm but burn it all. What happens now, victim ends what happens to the rest of the world. You will not be able to stay wrong, brother, you will not be able to plug here. In turn, I want to talk about what Rubbo to be tell about It takes us some funny The rubber will be lie