Ep59 - Daniel Kaluuya / "Get Out" and "Black Panther"

Everyone told me to see that and I just never got hit let to see that? But what films you do it? I saw this thing calledure Hereditary. Oh yeah, Tony Collette terrifying. Yeah, really good. Yeah, I've caught that script. I need to read it. It's pretty It's that. That's a good filmmaker. It's his first movie and he's gonna be doing more. I'm sure. Um what else? I thought? Blind Spotting was awesome? He caught that later in the festival. That was David Diggs and his writing partner. They wrote it,

and then I think it's the first time. Okay, he's the first time director. Um. It played early in the festival, and uh, it's fantastic. What else? The American Animals is this movie about the guys that tried to steal the auto bond books from this university in Kentucky and they were just idiots. So it's kind of like a narrative slash document or anything. So some good stuff. I was like there a week, so I squeezed a lot in were you there last year? Whenever I'm getting lost of years? No,

I wasn't there last year. I was in Black Panther. I never I was there year before because I was in some not screen my slips. So I was there for that, and then I went to the festival after. So it was the Daniels film, right, um, so saw me el so I see Craig Robinson film was the one set in Germany. It's quite a few films that. Oh, the Morris from America, Yeah, and my friend directed that.

I went to film schooling that director. Yeah. And then the Christine that was yeah, yeah, she was fantastic in that. What happened to that film? Because I was like, what this is gonna be? And then they just don't even remember who picked it up? Actually is there's so many movies nowadays, things just sadly fade away. And she was amazing that and it was like I didn't know the story, so it kind of took me by surprise all the

tons and then it was just like oh wow. But yeah, it was the first kind of festival I've been to. I've been to Coppon screening in London Film Festival and it's the best. I think it was probably the best one because like you're seeing people in the twenties and he's like, just geeks you about storytelling and you mean, it's like and then like a drink and a dance, you know, it's you gotta go up to tell your right one year. Man, if you've never loved to get

Christine tells you, it's amazing. We're film, we're filming, we're recording. Now we have Daniel Khaluya here, the Oscar nominated star of It's also in Black Panther. We'll talk a little bit about that too. Um, congratulations on the Oscar nomination. Thank you so much. I mean, it was over a year ago that Get Out premiered at Sundance and nearly a year ago that it opened in theaters, open on School weekend Oscar Weekend. Yeah, I remember how Jordans on

this show actually that weekend. Um, I don't think either of us knew that this was going to be the fad for this movie. It's testing to see what it's done. Um. You know a lot has happened for you obviously, and now you're an Oscar nominated actor. What does this whirlwind felt like for you throughout this year? I mean, it's

it was. It was. It was very surreal because I did I did Black Panther, and I did Widows and then I kind of went back home to London and then I was like, oh, this film is a thing because that's like my context. That's like like and then I was going back and then I came back to America, probably October, and I was like, okay, how it's called bigger. I've never experienced anything like that, where usually I do a job in two weeks later it kind of disappears

and something else takes the place. But it was like, get up, kept on growing and growing and growing, and now I've been here, it keeps on growing and taking me to rooms that I never before I could get into. So you're like, you're just trying to process it will to be honest and yeah, and it's a very it's a world would Yeah, has it been like overwhelming it all? Because you strike me as like a low key, no fuss kind of guy. So has it been just like not that you can't handle it, but has it been

like a lot throughout the year. It's been a it's been a it's been a lot just because it's something new, you know. So you're trying to go all right, cool, what does this mean? What do I do what? And the answer is always just be yourself. But like it's just kind of like oh, like oh, I mean I'm just navigating new spaces. That's that's all it is. And it kind of go, oh, I have to go here,

I have to go there. I forgot, Like it's just I mean, like certain events can be overwhelming, like just like music festivals and you go out there and people like, okay, that's quite kind of like well the first music festival went, I was like, wow, I would just go to this. Now this is a different experience. And but I try and continue to make it about the work because that's the heart of it. So it's like like, less, how does this help me doing the job that I love

to do. You know, Yeah, what do you feel like I'm always curious about movies that run the gamut from Sundance all the way through an ask your season, because that's a full year. So do you feel like you run out of things to say? Like you've kind of it's been wrong out you know, because now as I've been filming a lot, I didn't really do that much because I was like out of the game, so I didn't really commute in England. I didn't so like so I've I also, people ask you a question, you just

engage you with it. Honestly, it's not like it's not like it's these answers or whatever I'm talking about is foreign to me. It's like it's that it's great. A Going said in an interview wants. She was like, the stuff that you intellectually know, this stuff you intimately know. This is this experiencing get out of stuff that I intimately know. So it's kind of like, I don't, I don't.

It's me you know, you don't have to perform the answer question likecause and that's why that's what's quite free and about the stuff that I'm a part of at the moment, it's just like stuff that is a representation, representation of me and my people around me, and then I kind of go whenever I can just be honest,

I mean, and like in every way. So because I love Girl as a film, I love Black Fires the film, So it's that kind of I don't I think I'm gonna love with those as a films always like well cool, that's let's just I love Cuicario, Like, let's just just keep going, you know. Uh, this was an incredible performance. I've said so from before it was posh to say so.

I thought this was such an incredibly because there's so much going on internally, right, I mean, they which had to have been both a challenge you know, and a delight as an actor to play, I imagine, because the work is considerably different when things are so internalized like that.

But just tell you tell me, I mean, what what were the challenges of that aspect of this role because he's it's such an observational character in a way, and he's he's consistently reacting internally to how things are going on around him. So just talk about those challenges. It's

I mean, they're challenge in the sense that. I mean, I learned so much on Sicario and working with that group of actors, where the audacity to do nothing, you know, the confidence and and and seeing him doing it on set and not understanding it but then seeing it on

screen and go wild. But he was a Toro is amazing in that film, Josh is Amazingly's amazing, and I kind of it's it's a And then after a year and a half off and I kind of had to rethink how I saw storytelling, how I saw acting in a sense that like I don't want people to see him doing it, and I can kinda So it's just kind of like if you're playing a real dude, he's

a real dude, do you mean? And it's like and he's going through this, and it's about like people may not it may not be the showy role, and you have to be okay with people not noticing that you're doing what you're doing. But did they notice the story? They are they feeling the beats of the story that

that's the priority for me. So it was me engaging with kind of like just kind of death of like the acting ego in me, like just kind of go, let me just do what I feel feels right and and and feels real and and with the internal is kind of like I find that. I just find a dynamics really interesting. This stuff like I think I'm probably doing life, and loads of people do that life. I

find that interesting. I watch, so I find it interesting when someone says a kind of like, especially in the professional environment, especially in this industry, people say a lot of slick stuff, and I swear absolutely see a lot of slick ship. It's encouraged. Okay, let's say a lot of slick ship and then like around that's kind of like but no one can say it directly because I'm from a quite direct tone, so it's I'm having to learn that and I can see people react to it,

but they can't really react to it. So there's there's what's being said on paper, what's being said is nothing like it doesn't mean anything, but underneath, both parties know that there's something happening, and their faces are given hints to something that's happening. So I just kind of was like,

oh that, I find that really. I find it more interesting to see in cinema, So it's kind of like, let's try and do that, like in but then I think I've a with my intern has always been like I don't want to feel like I'm showing off what I can. I don't. I don't want that. Like even when I was doing plays and there was like a sequence where I had to like show rage, I'll be like, even in Black Mirror, like when I was doing that monologue, I'll be like, is it too much? I mean, I

don't want it. I don't want people to God because I probably find that quite overwhelming me. And that's just

my personal taste. And so we've get out. It was just kind of have this in mind, but also as well conversates with Jordan and Allison and just going how do we ground this amazing genre story, you know, like and and I just I just kind of felt and that Jordan was like minded about, like you have to believe this character and believe this relationship and believe that this is real, which grounds all the kind of supernatural

or other worldly like genre elements to the piece. If it's grounded, you know, and you're you're way more likely to believe a lot of more stuff, this stuff that's real, but you don't even believe you mean, it's like because of the gravity at the center of it isn't it's routed, Yeah, and that plays up kind of just the psychological like things are big, feel like they might be bigger in your head and the character's head than they are, but

we see that they're not. But it just it's another dimension of just the performance and the writing in the direction that makes it such a multi tiered kind of project. You know, um talk about the the improvisation aspect and how that affected some of this, because I understand there

was some improvisation with these scenes. I mean mean us and a team, like like the main cost and Jordan went to the house and in Alabama and we kind of just watch up the scenes, watch up the scenes here what a lot of the the hypnotism seen some of it, a lot of keen those lines was a

brilliant limit it was wasn't was it on paper? And it was just like because she's putting the pressure onto and she's duping Chris, She's like trying to manipulate him and get him into it but not feel like it is and he's just trying to be a good boy. And like the lake scene when before Chris talks about his mom and stuff, like that that bit when he's like I want to go, I want to go, And

that was all improv. That was all like and and it takes some really really confident director to kind of trust that, like trust who he's who he's cast too, to go, oh, like tell me what you think, give me what you think, or like we're losing light and he was like keeps on longpowering us to god, what do you feel? How do you feel? Just do do what you feel and throwing things out and coming back.

It's like, especially especially in the scenes between me and Allison, there was a lot of improv and I think it was necessary because you wanted to you want to buy into their love. You wanted to buy into that that relationship small talk and that's not that's intangible. That's just like you want to think us that they really like each other. But you can't just say I love you. I mean, that's not that's not what's that I mean, it's like you have to go what do they have

a shorthand do they have this? They have that? So it was like and Allison, who's brilliant, got it in prop background and Jordan's so it's just to make it feel immediate and make it feel like I always love performances like that. I mean, Shane Meadows and Films is an incredible book for that. When you kind of a what is that like? Well, when they do and the character made something, I'd see that in life, but I'd

never see that in film, and you go, why not? Like, and then I thought, there's a lot of moments and get out there just feels like what a person would do, but it's really specific and idiosyncratic of that individual character, and Juldan gave us a space to kind of do that. Yeah, there's been a lot of talk about genre with this film, and it's a very just unclassifiable film in a lot

of ways. But I wanted to talk about the tight rope walk with the comedic elements because, uh, you know, I talked to Jordan's roughly a year ago and he was talking about how exercising the comedic aspect of his brain really informed a lot of just the horror elements that he was writing, because they're kind of two sides of the same coin. And I'm just curious if there was any kind of discussion about that, or you know, even just like insinuations about that just how how did

that tight rope walk work? I think it's it goes into the decisions that Jordan makings. Who were who we? Cause I think everyone in the cars has comedic bones. So it's not a stretch. It's kind of like I just feel like Tonally is like I just love pieces like get Out and like loads of stuff that I've done has always had a hint of comedy or it has been comedy. Based on this show called Cycle, it's

like a horror comedy. That's it's And so it's kind of like walking that because I just think that's what life like. That's what life's like, like life drama, right that I just thought it isn't Life isn't like life isn't just a comedy. Life is sometimes horrifying. Life sometimes terrifying. Life is sometimes science fiction. We walk around with these devices in our pockets that we can watch any series around the world if we download the right app, and

that's illegal. I mean it's like, I mean it's like like like you know, if there's all elements and all faculties that we that we we navigate so them like, well, then like I just expect script to reflect that reflect that that but doesn't mean it. It doesn't have to be truth as long as it's truthful. It's not like we're playing it for comedy. We're playing because he's a friend who's trying to tell like a friend, like to get the funk out of the house. Like it's like, motherfucker,

get out of the house. Like I mean, it's like it's like and his way of saying it, it's comedic, but there's truth in it. It's like you're gonna be a sex slip because he probably think because that's how his brain works. It's like they cut nigger's heads off and feed them to me, and it's like that. But everyone has that person in their life, you know, Like I just think everyone has that like so and that person is being honest. It's just how they're doing it.

It's done. But that person isn't living a comedy I mean. And so it's Um, I think what Jordan is we've been joining of bending is just being honest about the laugh experience. No, you're right, I mean we laugh every day. We're scared every day and dramatic things happen every day. You're you're absolutely right, Um, talk about shooting in Alabama,

what was that, Like I spoke to the dp UM before. Yeah, you can tell me before a column I write every year about the top ten shots of the year, and the first shot of you going into the sunken place is what I chose. And he told me about shooting that in a civic center auditorium thing, and Alabama is just kind of a movie magic. But yeah, just talk about shooting in that location and what the environment kind

of did for you and your performance. I mean it was a couple of Confederate flags, but yeah, maybe when I was going to my weekly shot, I mean using fair Hoop, Alabama, which is like a small small town, like more of a retirement kind of time, it was always pretty chill. I I don't know, like I feel I didn't. I mean, it's the twenty few day shoot actually see and I was like an other bus. I didn't really get to see Alabama in that kind of

way of just little kind of trips. But it was it was more of like kind of like that we came where we went away. It was like the Republican candidate debate was on, you know, and and to understanding this the context that Chris is in and knowing that that's being that's at that that's happening. At that time, it was was really in. They didn't inform our conversations whilst we were making it. You know, there was like loads of elements just being in. Being in America shows that.

And then it's prep. It's more pronounced when you're not driving or walking down the street and you see Trump posters, you know, like, yeah, that's just the world we live in, and they believe in it. So it's like, and that's what one of Chris's fears, you know, like those those people that just don't indifferent to racism. It's not even like they're racist, are just indifferent, which is it's scarier. It's just like whatever, I mean, it's like, you know,

what wrong is happening? And they keet the moving. I always thought the most the scariest character, and in twelve years of Slave was was spending at Comma batches because he knows what's good and what's right, but he turns his back, you know, he doeses to stand up for Sulomon Norfolk, and I find that I find that fascinating, you know. So so yeah, well, the morning of the Oscar nominations, what was your first phone call Christy, Yeah, I was congratulation. It was very, very very surreal. It

was yeah. And then and then I was like, okay, let me engage with what because I put my phone in another room and then and then like my phone just went crazy. And then I was like, I gotta FaceTime mom. So I told my mom. I didn't not. I think she was just chilling like she wanted to. I was at ways usually weren't what you meaning? And then and then I say like, and then told her and then just worked a couple of friends and a

couple of people, was worked to my managers out here. Um, it was very it's very I'm still going through it, you know. It's it's life changing. It's life changing for me. But I'm trying to figure out what's changing, you know, and and uh, and then what do I want to do? Like you mean that do I change what I want to do because of this recognition? Like you mean, it's like it's always like just that's the trick, finding finding your center and the midst of all that. You know, Yeah,

you have to, yeah, like you have to. It's like I did get out because I believed in it. Like so this success is amazing, but the success is meant just wanted to connect with an audience like someone watching it. I wanted you to feel something. That's it like, even if you hate, at least you felt something, you know. I think the worst bit is when it's met, when it's average, when it's I mean, it's like so you can't control that. There's always it's just been a ride

that's kind of gone grown and grown and growing. And yeah, well I wanted to touch on Black Panther, which I saw last night. Yea, oh man, it's it's got something to say. It's it's it's pretty, it's pretty. I love Ryan. I was one of the great, one of the great, just in my experience conversationalists, just as an interviewer, as an interviewee. Uh. And he's just such a good guy and I'm I'm really happy that he got this opportunity.

So you tell me what it was like from your perspective working on with him and working on a film of this scope. I mean, it's uh, you know, considerably different, right it was. It's like, I mean, Ryan cool, we scotted. He saw a short film I did called Baby Daniel Malloy.

I did that in twenty ten and he saw that years gone and he said that he'd been watching me in a couple of things and then he uh and then he Scott had I was doing his plane and I did a matinee and there was no way find and buildings like across the road to this coffee shop had to buy nuts because it had to stay in the coffee shop. So I can use the wildfire so I can scrape right and skype him trying to hide

the thing. And then like he was just we just talk about creed because it was a lot of it based in the UK, and it was talking about like the UK rap scene and stuff like that, and he's just we just connected and then like he was like we Mutch need to be part of it. And then then I am. We kept on having conversations and and and and I would just really I bought into into what kinda like I kind of do shops to learn stuff. I think it's amazing that like I can go into

another world and find out things. So I've done to play about the Congo season the Congo and it was about Katanga, which is this district in Congo where all the material comp remember the right material but all the material, our phones and everything is from katangas, And so what

kind of is the inverse of that? Because we will benefit from katanga but what and it's keeping it to itself and just that debate and and and just that kind of in that that thing where like you know, if if you're I don't know, I mean, I can't speak for everyone. I can stay speak for my area of my experiences. But when you're black, like and if you're you've got money, or if you show that you have money growing up, you get your target, you get robbed.

You mean, it's that that kind of relationships in in when you have you have to hide in order to sustain, in order to keep it because people will take it and think it's yours and and appropriate or do what they need to do. And I just felt that, like that just interests me, And that was just I thought it was a major theme. I mean, it is that like the whether the open the borders or not, it's

just a major theme within Black Panther. And so it's just like then them to do it in an entertaining way that the common man and woman could just go WHOA, Like this is a cool film within a massive Marvel films that I was intrigued by doing a block asked her, like this, like doing a film at this scale and seeing what that experiences. I twenty eight. When I did that, I was twenty seven. I did Gaps twenty said, I'm just like like figuring it out, Like I'm not I

don't have a master plan. I just kind of go with what I feel and then I go oh cool, like and then I come to then moving forward, I'm more informed, you know, And it's just about like not being scared to make mistakes or or trip or even majority of time people are scared for things to go right. I mean, so it's like that's what what drew me to this. It was this experience with Ryan Coogler at the Home with what is with the time that is

with it? It's an African superhero movie, like Jimman, it's like to be a part of it, and then being part this cast, the people, parties crew, like the head of departments killed this film, like you mean, it's like it's it was a very important experience with me. Rachel was actually on my flight back from Sunday. Yeah, she was like, I'm looking forward to this movie she's like, there's so much hype around this movie. But I mean, you know with good reason. You also just worked with

Steve McQueen. You mentioned it earlier on Widows. Um, you know what was that like? Oh Steve, he's a good good man. I love that guy. Man, he's such a speaks his mind. I like that. That's when I'm trying to say, I'll come from a direct household. He's a direct dude. Mean, so I get it. I think he like I think like like, I think some people find him in timid Day and I don't. I don't know. He's just honest. It's like, and he's very intuitive. He's

very he can sniff it, he can sniff you. I mean he's like you know, if you think you met him right, you know, he's a he's a sniffer. He's a saucer. He's like a kind of figures figures out real quick. You know what I mean, and and like and think it's what motivates you and what you're about. So that whole experience was so amazing man, Like I mean, Sean Bobbitt, it's like it's a highest film. Signed Violet Davis Davis directed by Steve McQueen shot by shot, Bobby like,

I'm gonna watch that film. I'm gonna watch the fucking ship out of that film. There's like anyway like all these I was gonna watch the shut out. So it's like it was a blessing and he just cares and he's open. Like that's what It's so interesting being like these people that I'm a fan of and they're so talented and such visionaries, are just so open to your ideas. I mean, they could just close off because I know,

everything shut up like, but but they don't. I mean, and maybe that's kind of like symptomatic of of what why it makes him so like see like they kind of said the boundary because Steve kind of like there was a point where I was my first day, had a really big scene for my first day. I was really nervous, and he was just like I was like, what you thinking this? But this how they decide? He goes listen. It's like it isn't surprised me, surprise yourself,

you know. And and that's like correct boundaries, do what you want within those boundaries. It's really empowering and and I'm really excited for that film. Yeah, We've spent a lot of time here talking to about the things you've been learning, and I'm curious, but you know, with these this progression of these three films, Get Out, Black Panther, Widows, what is there anything definitive that you've learned in terms of what you do and don't want to do going forward?

Do more of the same thing a kind of a kind of just like just following your gun man, like it really excites like me, like really excites me, Like get out, you go to get Out. You're like, I don't know what's going to happen after this comes out, because it's never been anything like it. I'll go to a Black Panther, I don't know what. I don't know

what's going to happen after FOBUS sixty if. I don't know how it's going to be received because it's never been anything like this, Widows, I have no idea what's going to happen after that? I mean, and it's like, well, that's what we're here for, kind of like why are we doing it? Intrigues me that people work in the creative industry but don't handle their careers creatively. They kind of have a formulaic white. They have to have order. But it's like like it's like, let's see where this goes.

I mean, let's like one of my favorites saying is do something, start small, start local, keep going this comedical. Josey Long said it, and it's like just like now that's all I've done. It's kind of do certain stuff. We'll start to keep and just keep going. So it's like there was something that after Shotario, like it took a year and a half off and that kind of was like and it's kind of those conversations, those thoughts, those ideas that reading has informed where I'm at right now.

Then I need to go off again and then process everything. There's a lot's happened, and so like, Okay, what did I like? When I didn't like? What I don't like? What I didn't like? Well, they're like, how do I want me for what I'm What am I here for? What am I doing? Whom I sucking up and saying like because if we're here to fu shut up? I mean, and then if you're not, then what you're doing appreciate.

I appreciate that headline, but like like like Jeremy and say it's like like what how we how how are we doing this? You know, and like like and I have to let this whole year and a half by the end of it inform me moving forward because I've worked with people I deeply respect on and off the camera, you know, in every department. So it's like kind of like we'll see what happens and then I don't know.

And that's why I think it's exciting. Is that the plan to take some time off again, that's the kind of the thing I also undercover of all it's been, right, and so I think I need to I think I need to take you have to. I think I think we're creating, like it's creative. So it's kind of like you need to see what's going on. You mean, you need to see what's going and like when we want to do something, why am I going to do it? Why was it doing? Who's it empowering? You know? Who's

it empowering? Like, who's it? Who's it? Who? Why? You know, it's like just understanding that you not it's it's not a treadmill. We were working for for empowerment, to deliberate us. I would like to work to a space where I feel more cage doesn't make sense to me. So you want to have more control, more agency within within your life, you know, definitely, well I wish you well going forward

on that. And again the movies are called Get Out, which you can see on you know DVD blue right now if you haven't already, If you haven't, come on man, get with it. And Black Panther is February sixteen, every six every twelve in England. There you go go see that one. I'm pretty sure you'll be hearing some things about it. Daniel Cluia, thank you for coming on my show. Man. Appreciate you got your tooth rush? Do you have your Do you have your cozy clothes? Do they know I'm black?

You might want to you know, mom and dad, my black boyfriend will be coming up this weekend. I just don't want you to be shocked. But he's a blackman. I never see you, like just before, broke me, families and take a road trip. Don't come back all come back, get your day of pants up to your damn stomach. So you guys coming up from the city, Yeah, they're just heading up for the weekend. Can I see your

license please? He wasn't driving Nasko was driving. I asked to see his I d called Dean and you're hungry, my man? So how long has this been going on? We hired Georgina and Walter to help care for my parents when they died. I couldn't bear to let him go. Do you smoke confront of my daughter with a quick She'd take care of that for you. How hypnosis, I'm good, Actually come back and be so look I go. Doh, my restarted. Apparently a whole bunch of brothers been missing

in this subburb. But it's cool, bright, you're not scared of a man. I could see no brother run here. Chris was just telling me how you felt much more comfortable with my beingion. Yo. Sorry man, yo, bros, we gonna go. Ros keys got I don't know where they are. Ros sink into the floor. Wait wait wait wait U things a waite ul things were waged. If there's too many white people are getting nervous, Oh no no no no no no no no no no no no no. A man is a terrible thing to wat