Ep58 - Gary Oldman / "Darkest Hour"

just your Yeah. I don't even know they got it. Yeah, mh Gary, he's just gonna grab a couple of quick candidates as if we're chatting. I just got a message from an win. Oh. Ess, I'm gonna bring this back word clean, give it to the good night. Last night it was um a good result. Ye have fun? Uh I did? Yeah? Yeah, Um, I was a little um shocked. Yeah, look overwhelmed by. But yeah, we had a nice We had a nice time. We had a very nice table.

We had Sally Hawkins and Richard Jenkins, Jeffrey Rush So they kind of or mingle everybody at that put a soul. I don't know how they do it. I don't know how they work it out. The who's with who you know? But um, but enjoyed your tablemates. It's a nice table. Yeah yeah, it's uh yeah, let's get some more light. This is actually darker than usual. There. That's fine, thank you. All right, we're rolling by the way. Okay. Uh we've got Gary Oldman here today, star of Darkest Hour, SAG

Award winning Star of Darkest Down. We were just talking about, uh, as I said in congratulations on that, you were quite emotional on the stage. You know what, what was striking you in the moment? What was well, I have no recollection now that the evening really, um it is a very wide pool of people that vote. I'm told I think it's like a hundred and twenty thousand or more. Um, so you're not it's not in the bag, you know

you It really could have been anyone's I think. And so I was shocked, genuinely surprised two win and then it hit it just sort of it was very emotional and it just kind of hit me. And I think, ah, I remember Winona Rider leaping out of her seat in kissing me, and and I think the hug from Denzel on my way to the stage was was it was it was lovely. It was very touching. Tripped down memory

lane on the way to the stage. Here Dracula there. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, Dracula all those many many years ago. So it was great. It was a great It was a great night. And to be recognized by ones fellow actors is a is an honor. Indeed, before I dig in on the movie, the performance and a couple of other things, the this James Brown video I must talk about, which I understand. We owe a debt to you for to your wife. It's been making the circulation lately. Uh,

you know talk about that? Was that just a fun bit of backstage you know, well, we you know, you've you've got You've arrived in the morning and you're looking really a four hours before you get to the set um, and then the crew, the cast, and the director arrive and then you rehearse, and then you work ten or twelve hour day and then you have the makeup removed for an hour in the evening. So you're looking at a very long day, um, and you you have to

get into some kind of zen place. You have to find a headspace to sort of get you to get you through it. Um. And I was just very lucky that I had David Malanowski and Lucy Sibik, who were who two people who would sort of put put me together in the morning. Um. They they were just a lot of a lot of fun to be around. And we and you kind of have to find the humor

to just sort of get you. You know, you you come in at two thirty a m. Or three am on on a cold morning after you know, on day and then and the morning starts with your head being shaved and cold glue applied to your face. You know, you've got to you know, you have to sort of get through it somehow. So they were just they're just terrific people, not only great artists, but really really lovely

people and great sense of humors. So we used to we used to yeah, um, it's a stress reliever in the in the trailer, and and we used to play we used to play music. There was a sort of it was a sort of ritual where there would be silence for a while and then m maybe at two hours in Dave would on the radio or then we'd start going through our iPhones and iTunes and and and playing. And he's a soul, he's a big funk soul guy Dave, so we we we used to play a lot of that.

And then you know, I used to do silly James Brown, Winnie Winnie doing Brown and where you learned the moves from Captured by My by Chaselle my wife. Uh, you know clubs when I was a kid. Yeah, you still got it, man. I used to like, um, yeah, I

was a big I used to like soul awesome. Well, speaking of you know, the makeup and everything every day, You've been no stranger certainly to immersing yourself physically into a character, long line of roles like Dracula as we mentioned, and True Romance, Fifth Element, just lots of prosthetics and really getting into the physical space of the character. I don't imagine you would do that so much if you didn't love it right or that that it kind of feeds what you do. Well. I had a big, a big,

big gap from it. I The last time I was in that kind of makeup I think was for Hannibal, the really Scott film, and that was six hours. But then I would only I would only work a four hour day in it um and that was the whole thing with contact lenses and they had They rigged up a device that held my eyes open, so I had no eyelids. I didn't blink and and you could only you could only it was every fifteen minutes they had to give me eye drops and release the eyelids to

rest the eye. So it was a sort of very um a crazy process and I and I swore after that that I would never do it again. UM. And that was my you know, that was my life. They're done with with with that kind of makeup. UM. When this came up, with Darkest Hour came on the scene, it was it was a necessity. It was the only way to go. So I knew going in UM and and and Hannibal was seven eight days, you know. UM, so you're looking at Winston UM. You know, you're looking

at fifty in that kind of makeup. UM. And then we had test makeups. So I think it's sixty one times that I had that I had the makeup on UM And yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot. It's a lot to go through. UM. But of course you're then working with Kazuhiro Suji, who designed designed the makeup.

It was it was Lucy and Dave that that painted it and applied it on a daily basis, but it was but it was Kazoo who came up with the with with the look, and when you're working with someone like that and that kind of material, I mean, it really is like a synthetic skin. It's not cumbersome restrictive in any way. What does it do for you psychologically? Like working in the space, putting you you know, being disappeared into a role like that essentially, like is it

helpful for you? Does it feel like something you have to act act past? Does it feel ever feel like you know, just for you personally? Well, the whole experience was very um immersive, um. Going back to the the sort of work. The homework on the role was a year um and that was a year of all really all things Churchill. I mean, it was just it was

constantly in my he was constantly in my head. Then you had um four weeks rehearsal, which is sort of unheard up for a film where you got to really physicalize and vocalize the character and the set that the Sarah Greenwood's designs were just that they were so immersive and so detail out, and then you're looking in the mirror and you're at least seeing an essence of a spirit of of of Winston. So you are stepping in.

It was a little bit like just really touching history and stepping back, you know, when you stepped back in time. You know, it's sort of so the whole um. A great deal of that is doing the work for you. You know, you use your imagination, of course, but but you would believe that you were in the war rooms.

I mean we we visited several times and had a private tour of the place, and the curator feel read he was on set as a sort of technical advisor, and he couldn't he couldn't believe the war room set. He said it was, you know, and it was also it was also in case it had of course there were lights that Bruno used above us, but at times, you know, they would put ceilings in um. So you you know, it was amazing. You really felt that you

were down there when you were doing your research. Well, what did you discover about Churchill that you didn't know that maybe you applied in your performance. He's such a well covered man that you know, it's not like I would have imagine you'd run into too many surprises. But yeah, yeah, yeah, it is an extraordinary life. Um. And you know my curiosity is continues. You know, I still be reading about him. The eight hundred books um I think written about him,

fifty books that he wrote himself. So there is a wealth of material. And I was just amazed at the well this first of all, this moment in time has has never really been fully documented, at least on film that's very specific defining sort of five or six weeks in in in n So that that that was, And that was a discovery because, Um, I didn't realize the resistance from his own cabinet and actually how perilously close we came to really appeal what the peace deal essentially

it would have been a surrender. Um. But what I mean, what do you have? You have a man who is I mean he lived to ninety extraordinary life. When you think that he was, he was He was a heavy drinker and it was nothing unusual and in those days, I mean everybody drank. It's estimated that he smoked a hundred and sixty five thousand cigars in his lifetime. That they have an estimate for that. Yeah, they've someone some Yeah,

someone's work worked that out. Um. And then you've got, you know, for in four wars, he wrote fifty books. He wrote more words than Shakespeare and Dickens put together, painted something like almost six hundred paintings, had six hundred sixteen exhibitions at the Royal Academy, the Nobel Prize for Literature. I mean the list sort of just goes, it goes on and on and on. And was the man who stood up to the nuts see Tyranny Um. The quotes

are endless. You know that this remarkable giant brain that he had. Um, So I've I have sort of developed a great appreciation for him. I mean he was a genius. Yeah, very very unique, very unique man. You've had a number of accolades this year, a big swell of support behind you this awards season. I think a lot of times with that comes a tendency to look back on one's career. Are you finding yourself in that position a lot lately

to look back at your career? And no, I never do. No, No one's trying to play the lifetime achievement game with you. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there's been one of those. I think, um or yeah, just sort of one's body your work. Um, I think what keeps you going is um. Someone must asked me, they said, what what what's you know, what's the best? You know, what's your what's your favorite role? And I always say, you know, next week, the next one, you know. I think that's what sort of keeps you going.

You know, if you if you get to sort of complacent and sort of self satisfied with it. I think that the wanting to um, wanting to work and make it and make it better and get better, and that's what sort of keeps you going. I mean, we had had a conversation at the Golden Gloves with Denzel Washington, who is at the moment, I think him rehearsal for the Iceman Conneth opens on Broadway, and he doesn't have to put himself through that. Um. He's he's playing Theodore Hitman.

So Matt Mammoth t tanic thing, you know, a giant role um um, and he can make a living from screen acting. UM. But he said, I need I do need to do it. I need to feed to feed the actor in me. UM. But I don't. I don't, I don't. I don't tend to look um to look to look back. Honestly, couldn't tell you how many films I've made. I'd be very hard pushed to give you a list of them off the top of my head. Um,

it's working, move on? Is that it? Well, it's just I think it's I think for me, why why doesn't it's old work and I'm looking to move forward and do new things. Um. Um, you know there are some there are some great ones, and I certainly appreciate the career I've had very I've been very lucky, very and I'm very grateful to it. But it's always just nice to look forward. Well, if you will indulge me, I'm

gonna look back a little bit. If I could ask that favorite role question a little bit differently, like before, prior to this role, was there anything that comes to mind that was a particular challenge for you to inhabit that character. Maybe it was more of a stretch and so it was different, more difficult, much challenging for you to therefore take on the role. Anything come to mind for that? I find in a way the do you

know what? It's a question that comes down to writing. Um, I find it, uh, find it easier to work on something when you've got when you've got a great screenplay. Um, a good writer gives you all the clues and maps out on the road for you, and then you just of course you apply instinct and intuition and talent and all all of those things. But you you have you you all you really need to do is follow the signposts. Um, Golden was quite challenging, believe it or not, which I'm

sorry James Golden. Yeah, Um, you don't exactly have somebody can talk to other than maybe you know, cops or something, but like you can't yeah, yeah, yeah, and um, the Harry Potter because what you have to do is you have to make exposition character. Yeah, and that is tricky. You've got to make you're you're really furthering the it's plot and you have to make plu interesting and give it character. So I find that, Um, you know, it's

all of course, it's always hard, you know. You you you go to as Jim Gordon, you go to a scene of a crime and Batman's Batman's already there. It's solving it, you know, and it takes a certain amount of it does take a certain amount of of technique too. Um, just to speak some of that dialogue with that situation, get me, you know, you're talking to a walkie talkie and or you're looking at green screen and you're you know, and you say, get me, I need a swat team

and a chopper on the roof. You know, you know it's it's not Shakespeare. You know, you've got to. So I find that I found that quite quite um challenging as an actor, because it just seemed like words. Really it's like, you've got it, You've got Yeah, you've got to You've got to give it. Um, yeah, you have to. You know, the stakes are high, and that's the sort of emoment that and that's that that's the the emotion that that you have to uh convey, you have to

convey the urgency of the situation. Um. And so I found those really I have found those um challenging. What about was there ever a role that was difficult for kind of the opposite reasons where it was where it cut kind of close to the bone, Maybe it was closer to who you are than you kind of anticipated or anything like that, m and therefore you felt more perhaps naked or something in the performing of it. I think I've stopped him. Well mm hmm, I forgot about

you see, I forget, I forget, I forget. Yeah. Um yeah. George Smiley in Tinker was was a challenge because you had to make um he is a sort of no. Um, he's a character who is it blends in um, he's sort of um every man. He's just U very bland facing the crowd, you know, he's not conspicuous and and you and it's all in this giant brain that is that is working. Um. But he's very his his blood precious, very low, and he's very very still, and it's all really in the in the eyes and and you're looking

for there there there there you know something. UM. So I think that was that was a test um and and initially I was very I felt I was very very in the shadow of Salc Guinness. You know, he had he had he was the face of George Smiley and had such a great success with it. That and of course the little Kari people, you know, I mean, it's a the huge those books. It has a great following,

and Smiley as a very beloved character. Um. And for many of them, Guinness was was the physical incarnation of George. So that was that there were a few dragons there that I had to slam. Yeah. I got into a very very insecure headspace, you know, taking it as sort of taking it on or you were justly were rewarded with you know, and yeah and once once once, once you're in you know a lot of the lot of the anxiety that you have is is I don't know, it's almost like you forget, you forget what you do

and you get, well I do. I can't speak for every actor, but I get you know, I have my my doubts and my insecurities and all the rest of it. And then of course when you get to the set and you do but you're doing the work. You know, you're doing the work. Um, you do the homework. But and it's this thing. I get to the set and then it's like, oh yeah, oh yeah, I know I know where I am. Oh yeah, this is why I do.

I know how to do this? Yeah yeah, And that's I think, what really And that's what happened with with with George. I went down to the set on the first day for the first take and and Douglas who's who's Here's my sort of collaborate a long long time creative partner, Douglas Sabanski. Um, he was there, and I said, don't, don't, don't come down for the first take. I just want to go down and and don't. I don't know what I'm thinking, but just let me. Let me just go

and do the first take. Don't don't watch and m I wanted to get Yeah, I wanted to. Yeah. I wanted to just sort of get on the bicycle and and and see if I would fall off. And anyway, I went down there and took George around the block and then came back to him and said, yeah, it's okay, you can come down now. I'll tell you one of my favorites and I'll share this with your head. Sam Rockwell on the show a few weeks and we were talking about darkest hour in your work, and he was like,

he's one of my favorite actors. Man. The first one he went to was one of my favorites in that state of grace. M hmm, just electric portrayal. You say you don't look back, so I don't know if you have many memories of it, but I have idea. Funny enough you mentioned it, I have I have a memory of it because I was only speaking about it in the other night at a Q and I. Um. I thought that I that was one that m I had this Irish accent, this sort of Westy accent, and really

that's all I had. And it was just sound of fury, you know. And I I would we were reading scenes, and Sean Penn would then go off to in the corner with the director and they would whisper something and then come back and then we would read, you know, read more scenes, and then there'd be a little break, and then they would be sewn in the corner with the director and they were you know, you get paranoid

because you think they are they talking about me. And I thought that they had already let one actor go and I thought I was the next. So I thought I was going to be fired. And and I couldn't find this character. Um, And it was just a voice. It was What I mean by that is that I didn't own it. It wasn't centered. And any way, at the eleventh hour, I went to a costume fitting and I put on a leather jacket and I flicked I was looking in the mirror and I flicked my hair.

I had long hair at the time, and I flicked my hair and I went gun him. There he is ah, and the cloak of inspiration fell at the eleventh hour. Now, sometimes it falls early and sometimes it falls late. And and honestly and truly, there have been times when it has abandoned me. You know. Yeah, you just hope you're going to find something, you know, you need that. It's like, I need the hook. I've got to what you know for Churchill. Obviously, the the voice is very it's very famous.

You know, the rhythms, the the the the meter, the the the inflection and the even the tombrother. The sound of the voice is it's notorious. But um, but what what struck me was the dynamism and the energy of the character from a lot of the not only from the news real footage that I was watching, but from the telling in the books of people that worked with him and around him. Um. So the physicality of Churchill was the first thing that that was the the energy

of him. And there's brain whirling, Um, you know of five thousand miles an hour, and people that could you know, they couldn't keep up with him. Um. That was the that was the hook. That was what opened the door to sort of find him. Um. But it's amazing that you can you can go through a whole rehearsal and struggle and struggle with a character and a jacket and the flick of the head and then and that you

can find it for you and um good directing. You know, you could struggle with a scene in rehearsal and a good director and it sounds really sort of blieb, but they could say that's good. Now take all the air out of it, take the pauses out, smarten it up, and um do it quicker, not not meaning rush it, but just smarten up the pace. And you can do that simple thing like that, and the whole scene, the whole thing can fall into place just from taking out

the pauses. Chris Nolan on on Batman, you know he would he would step in sometimes and and his note would be he would just say, that was great, Okay, there's more at stake. Mhm. You get you get, you get it. You can I know what he means. So it's not like they have to It's not like they have to take you to one side and say, now, remember this character in his childhood. They don't have to go through the psychoanalysis of it. Just sometimes a little

nudge um nick rogue once said to me. I asked him, I was We were in a very very weird track movie. I mean we were all grappling with what it was about. I stepped don't know what. Honest to this day, I still don't know when it was about. I got the job because I said to him. I met him at his house in London and he said, what did you think of the script? And I said, well, it's either the great It's either the greatest thing I've ever read, or it's the biggest load of bollocks I've over read.

And he loved that and hired me and would often pull me to one side and say, I think you were right. I think it's a load of bollocks, but you know you. I was on a set and we were trying to Teresa Russell and I were trying to sort of navigate the scene and work out when it was about. And Nick said to me, it's about hope and charm and I got it. That's a great that's a really good note. Um, so it's I don't know how we got into this, but yeah, oh yeah, I

finally got you. Looking back, it's what happened you did? I knew, I knew you I did want to ask you a couple of random things that just personal curiosities. I'd love to know how you ended up in a convertible with Axl Rose. Uh for the since I don't have a music video for Guns and Roses? Okay, how did that come to me that I had seen State of Grace? Yeah? They were big fans. Yeah, and they called me up and said yeah and said what did I do? You know? We'd like to have Gary for

Guns and Roses? And that's how that happened. Can you play this kind of sadistic mime? Like you're the devil and so you're playing but it's like a my mish kind of not the unique, not the only time I played the not the only time I played the Devil. There's someone trying to get in here right there there, they're eager to talk to you. Uh. Performance capture. I'm always curious about how actors take to performance capture. You worked on Christmas Carol and The Rubbers of Macas, So

what did you think about the performance capture technique? Um, it's okay. Was that one rough? No? It was great. Different actors take to it in different ways. I'm sure that the techniques of advanced since since we did we we did it. It was funny everybody just sort of said, it's like theater, isn't it. It's like it's just like theater. And often the people that say that the people that have never done theater. I didn't think it was like

sator at all. No, there's nothing like theater. Imagine, I mean theater wearing pajamas with all these things on you. And yeah, I like I like props, and I like props and clothes and the tactile tangible things you like performance. Yeah, I mean there's an experience working with with with Bob and Jim that was wonderful. You know, it was wonderful to work with Jim Carrie and I've admired Bob's and mechas for for years, so that that that part of it was was was glorious. It was did I Oh,

yeah I did. I did a motion capture video game. Um yeah, nice people, similar experience for nice people. So the physical immersion, you love, digital immersion not so much. I guess where we're I'm not no, I'm not to sound like a snob, but I still wish we were shooting on film. I mean, only a few people are. Um, one is an electronic process and the other one is chemical. And there's a certain emotion to it that there's it's

more emotional to me. And what what what just what the film to the I don't know what it what it is, but and I know that this technology is becoming more and more and more and more perfected. Um. But yeah, I'm a good I'm a good old fashioned give me, give me some props and some costumes. You get your wish on Darkest Hour? Oh oh boy. Yeah, and everyone should go see that movie. Um, it's I'm

sure it's still playing everywhere, so check it out. Gary has been duly rewarded all season and hopefully it keeps going. Congratulations on everything so far. Thank you, and I really appreciate you doing my show. Yeah so much. Yes, thank you. We have us nous select my success in under terminally when man the opposition will accept he stands for one thing and one thing only himself. Why have I been forced to send for chature? This record is a catastrophe.

Let me see your true qualities, your lack of vanessy will, your sense of humor, your mast It is my duty to invite you to take up the position of Prime Minister of this United king. Guy, I've speech to you for the first jimes trying minister. The German cerven circled sixteen British and French division. We are looking at the class in Western Europe for the next few days. How long have they got if we don't rescue them? Maybe two games? We would need a miracle to get own

them out. You have a full way of the world on your shoulders. We're facing certain defeat on land. The annihilist of our army, an imminent invasion. We must negotiate peace talks. When would the lesson be learned? You cannot nason with that tiger when you're heading Janet's mouth. Nonsense, the only slippery slot. Would you stop interrupting me while

I am interrupting you. We had before us many many long months of staddlen Satterly, even though many old and famous states have fallen into the grip of the Mars. In rule, we sell defend our island, whatever the cost, maybe way through fights all the chits. We shall fight all the landing rocks. We shall fight in the fields and in the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We shall never come down, so we're go victory. There can be no sha