Ep57 - Dee Rees / "Mudbound"

in the times. I'm shared. As I said, we're already recording just so you know. Um, we have de Rees, the writer and director of mud Bound, here with us today. I'm gonna have my phone out and I swear it's just me looking at questions, not checking text messages. Candy crushing over there. So you were just down at the march. How was that it was earlier? No, it's good, just like necessary, you know, so that the people are active today or doing something, just being visible. So it was

Amadi Organizations there. Well, you know, I want to start by talking about the big recent news for this film, which is Rachel's nomination from the a s C the first female DP nominated by the American Society of Cinematographers, whichhut things a long time coming obviously. Uh, but you know, I didn't know if she would make it either, because you know, you never know how things are gonna go in the season. But this great work was recognized, And what did you think about that kind of the history

that she made well as well deserved. You know, I'm glad that people are recognizing, you know, the craft of it and not kind of like you know, making you know, decisions about who's seen based on who they are, or you know, tokenism. You know, Rachel's work is on the screen, so I'm really glad for that. You know, you can go to Sandy Cecil and go to Ellen Curis, you go to Rachel Morris, and women have been making interesting

images for a long time. So it's great that finally her craft is recognized and that she gets the recognition that she's due. Yeah. Uh, what brought you to Rachel? I mean I think you've worked You worked with different dps on the other two films. Bradford on the first one, which is and he's one of the great working. Uh, and I think probably you're from Pariah's where he really launched yes work. Do you want to Sundance Prize? He did? Yeah, and then you worked with someone else for Bessie and

then now Rachel. So what brought you to to Rachel's work and working with her? Yeah, I've seen her. Actually, I'd known her from like years back when I lived in l A. It was like a very kind of small like lesbian you know, like seeing or whatever. So I knew and her just like socially, like at a distance. And then I've seen her work in food fill Station and actually Lena Motto I was just finishing Bessie and he mentioned her because she was going to do confirmation

for them or done confirmation. He's like, oh, you should know her. She's great and so linked with her because of that, and um, yeah, we worked together and she's able to really kind of translate you know, the images and just kind of like the characters I had in mind, and really it's getting those, you know, getting up on the screen. So yeah, she's great. Let's dive in there. Uh the images? What what was what inspired the look

of mud Beln. I just watched the movie again last Night, which is the first time I've seen it on the small screen. I saw I did in the theater actually before that, and so you know, always interested in to see how a DPS work translates, you know in the digital realm, I guess, but yeah, so we didn't look

at other films. So like for me, like the visual art world has always been my inspiration and like you know, creating kind of images for the screen, and so for me, inspirations where there's artist named Witfield Lavel who does a lot of tone on tone of paintings, a temporary artists as a sculptor love named Mary Frank who does a lot of things that United Bides in landscapes, and then Rachel had like Dorothea Lang and all these old w

p A photos. So we really kind of worked from there and wanted the film to feel very kind of candid, very kind of like like honest in a way. And another thing I love, I love um less blank because these documentaries he done this, like this documentary called The

Truth of Corn and to Lightning Hopkins. So you know, we looked at that and like wanted the film to have a very kind of moving at the speed of life feel so it doesn't feel presentational, it doesn't feel stagey, which can be you know, the catch of a lot of period pieces. But we wanted to move with the speed of life and feel honest, you know. And yet

it's I wouldn't call it like a verity thing. I think it's a it's aesthetically beautiful, uh, you know, working I don't know what your budget was, but like were there limitations that absolutely we shot this film in twenty nine days for ten million dollars, So this is an indie film that no one realizes as an indie film, and you know, and that was because Ragel was able to work so fast and use a lot of lighting, and you know, a big you know problem was basically

we shot in natural share propper's cabin, so like a lot of the challenge was balancing like the inside versus the outside, and so she actually had to cut holes in the ceilings of these cabins to be able to put light it's like in the roof of these things, so that you know, the value difference wasn't so great between the exteriors and interiors and just really you know,

making these characters feel like they're of the world. And I really love to let actors move through the space and I don't like blocking that kind of inhibits kind of there there, they're flowing. And that's all depend on having a DP. This wanted to be flexible with lighting and being able to work with you so that the actors have maximum freedom, that the actors are able to

kind of do their best work. Uh, talk about the landscape and just the locations, how that informs character for you and with this project and maybe how you know it would be a question for your actors. I often ask actors, how does the landscape inform your performance? And and and things like that, because environment is interesting when

it comes to making faults. Yeah, so and so in this case, we shot twenty six days on a sugar plantation about tours outside New Orleans, and so that you know, the fact that it was an actual working plantation I think served to really centralize us and keep everybody in it. You know, because Rachel I wouldn't have these three sixty views.

That means the production couldn't be like near us. And so the trailer, the trailers that we did have, and like all that base camp had to be like a couple of miles down the road, which made the actors like really stayed on set, like no one was going back and forth, no one was, you know, seeking comfort and going to a c like everyone really much stayed on pretty much stayed on set, which I think helped the rhythm and the flow and just helped the mood

and we're all kind of suffering together. And then we shot two days in Budapest, Hungary, and we said that's where we shot the tank battles and we shot the village scenes, and so that informed just because you know, it was one of the few cities it wasn't like destroyed in World War Two, so all the architecture is there, and just like the feeling is different. It's like a little gray er. We wanted that to feel different than

the American part of the story. And we shot a day actually with is a is a DP name Richard Rodkowski who shot the BET twenty five sequences with me out in Long Island. We shot at a World War two museum and so we just got to beat twenty five plane and shot that stuff against green. So I'd say the locations overall really served to kind of force the actors into like, you know, prop simity, with each other and forced them to kind of like stand the material.

So for example, even like shooting like like the tank scenes in Budapest, we shot natural tanks. It's a very hot, dark space, which is great because it necessarily limits the angles, and so you're really having this kind of um completely subjective point of view. So when you're in the tank, you're in it as a rounzale fiel. When you're in

the plane, you're in as Jamie would feel. It's very kind of like vulnerable, um small piece of humanity that's kind of mismatched, kind of jamited this huge metal object. And so I think all that comes across and part of the camera language that we really wanted to pay attention to was was that as subjective. Like it's these different narratives at different points of view. So when we're with Henry, we see the land as Henry sees it. So for when we're happy see his Hap sees it.

For example, Henry is one of the only characters we shot against Green, you know, because he sees it his verd and he sees his opportunity, he sees his commerce where his Hap we shoot him more against Brown. You know, it's about drudgery is like futility, and so just all those kind of things that serve the camera language and you know, um for example, and building Ronzel and Jamie's are relationship. It was important that that not go to

saccarine suite. And so you know, we started out you know, the blocking wise, like them not touching, and then when they are in the truck together, they're not looking at each other and they slowly begin to look and we shoot it like you know, this kind of stacky way, but because they're not looking, it creates this kind of like distance, and then that's how we get to the barn. You know, then we started moving like handheld like over

is like in the very last barn scene. So the camera lank Whige tells a story of intimacy for example, that whole sequence of that those guys relationships. So just you know, with a cinematographer, with a production designer, with your costumer, you're just always looking to kind of like let everything be telling the story, you know, let you know, let it be telling the unsaid versus like you know, just visual story telling. Yeah, thank you for drilling in

on all of that. Uh, you know, I was curious if working in the period realm on Bessie prepared you for this in any way, and also, uh, you know, ten million dollars is a tight budget for a movie like this obviously, so I don't even A question I had was did you feel like you were scaling up

making the movie? But maybe not because it's all the same. Yeah, this is a smaller budget, and Bessie actually yeah, So for me, I think in terms of like the scope of it, it felt very huge because we were telling you know, like a war story kind of baked into like a family drama, and so that piece of it was different. But I think like the thing that will best that Bestie prepared me for it is like the choreography of it all. You know, a dance scene and

a war scene are similar, and that its people. It's it's just people doing the same moves over and over as everyone being very clear, and the camera is the thing that becomes dynamic that makes it feel like chaos, But it's all very choreographed and so in that way, I feel like it's the same. And then it's just working with like extras, like a Bessie that was the first fe I had like huge numbers of background and even with them, I was kind of tiling them in camera.

In this film, we didn't have that many more background and so it's like how to like populate several fields of people, you know, when you only have maybe like thirty people. And so it's about, you know, a lesson and you know, UM shooting to camera, like telling the story and being able to kind of like UM be invented of with UM the way you kind of, like UM construct portraits and things that do many things at once.

So just a simple thing is like you know, driving the car towards the camera while kids are playing in a yard, while people are chopping in a field, and gives a feeling of like, you know, this big expansive life when maybe it's only like fifteen people. And so I think Bessie prepared me for that in way because we had to you know, be even that, you know, we had to kind of scale down, you know, the numbers that we could have. And so it's a way

that I'm used to working. It's with mud Bound. Is that the same thing, how to populate a world with you know, very little and even like that that town scene, you know, it's like, you know, the production value starts with location. So we fought for that town location because just by having a street they can see down, you can kind of communicate this idea of being behind enemy lines.

Whereas if we had done like the easy thing, which might have been to shoot at a general store that was right on the plantation, you don't get that feeling

of danger. And so just a small choice like that about location then can like activate an entire sequence and give ron Zale all this kind of like long scary march, you know to get home, so that we're more worried about him on this town street than we are him, you know, with things blowing up behind him and so um and so yeah, I just really have to have a great team and David bombar protection design if they give him credit for that, because he was able to kind of use what was there in the town and

supplement it and then by screechesically putting people like by putting a wagon outside, you then like make it this other world, you know, with no va effects, with you know, just like we're able to practically in camera like achieve a lot of kind of scale for not a lot. That gives me like film school flashbacks. I just remember, like shooting a scene and there was it was like

a you know, like a restaurant scene or something. We didn't have a lot of people to populate the scene, so you just kind of move people to the back of their chair up to the frame. It looks like they're having with someone exactly, that's right, yeah, yeah. And then and then sound design. So I had a great post production team, um, like Nancy Islands and music editor um, Damien Vullipi, all the guys at Harvard rob Um, oh

my god, Tony. So all those guys are like, you know, they're the same sound design team I worked with on Bessie. So now that they could bring you know, all that kind of like ability here and so they're into like using sound non literally with which I'm interested in. And so then the sound design becomes a layer into the score from this woman named to Mark how Lea did my score and she also did a song for Bessie

and then was in Pariah. So for me, it's about finding kind of like artists that are interesting and bring them back again and again because then you know, you kind of keep improving on what you tried the last time. Absolutely. Um. Actually, speaking of film school, what was your film school experience, Like, um, so I went to n y U. It was great, and that I had never touched a camera before, but you know, it was like challenging that it was like

trial by fire. So my learning curve was like very steep. It's like a lot of the kids had either been to art school before, studied you know, um um cinema studies or in some form. And for me, I was getting it all at once. I was getting Okay, here's the references and context and here's the technical side. Go. You know, so I made several horrible weekend short films,

you know, and then you know, you get critiqued. So I think the biggest thing about films because it teaches you, like how to be critiqued, you know, and it's just kind of like, you know, it's kind of like a brutal trial by fire, but it's great and that everybody touches every piece of equipment, and you know, everyone is forced to make their own film, so it's easy to critique and you realize, you know versus when it see you and your little so many you know camera like

in your living room trying to make something happen. So um so it's great in that way, but it was challenging also for that same reason. And for me it was about like I didn't have any kind of pedigree, your connections, and so film school, like n y U, was the way I first was able to get access even to just like internships. You know, it's just like

a way to be able to work for free. Whereas you know, if I hadn't had that or hadn't had that cover letter, you know, I couldn't have gone on, you know, to get someone's coffee, you and make copies for somebody, Like, yeah, exactly what were your inspirations going into film school? What what brought you to film school

in the first place. For me, it's funny like I had I had applied to the School of Dramatic Writing, and I applied to the film production program, and I forgot to get into the rioting, but not into the films. I've never done film. But um, for me, it was like right and it kind of drew me to it. This idea that you could kind of like make a story and then kind of keep ownership of it and then bring it to life was something like that was

attractive to me. And I think the thing I discover is like I really love actors and working with actors, and that's where I really get get energized. As like writing is like a lonely sport, and then when you're directing, you're dealing not only with all your kind of technicians, but you're also dealing with actors. And the actors are the ones who are vulnerable and want to play and have fun. And so I get turned on by that. And then editing can be like lonely too, so you

and your editors. So for me, um, the writing drew me to it, but I think the working with actors is a thing that like really kind of got me um hooked. You know, I'm excited about it. Well, regarding the writing, Um, I wanted to talk about about the

adaptation from mud Bound. Uh, you know, specifically structure. You know, I never read the Hillary Jordan novel, but talk to me about finding the right struggle finding the right structure as well as you know, juggling multiple narrators is like gotta be a tight rope walk with a screenplay, right, So like, talk to me about that the whole process. Yeah, So for me, so mud Bound came already in the script form so writing virtual Williams had done the first

draft of it, and so I went back. So I read his script, and usually I hate everything I read, but the script I thought, Okay, there's some there there. This is interesting that prompting me to go back and

read the book. And so each character talking, that's a conceit of the novel, you know, And so it's not necessarily a new idea, like Isabel Wilkerson doesn't warmth them with her sons, because other other writers have done it, like in nonfiction too, So for fiction, you know, it's not interest, it's not a new idea, but it's interesting in that finding the balance, to me is the hard thing.

And then also like how to create kind of like empathy, So you what works in novelistic form isn't harder to translate on the screen, because how do you get the audience to like invest in each worldview, Like how do you get the others like invest in each character and not just cling to one and be annoyed while while anyone else is talking. And so that so for me, my approach is to really focus on the Jackson family. And I didn't want this to be like another film

where like you know, one family serving the other. And like you know, in the book, a lot of the drama centers around this piano and and so Laura plays the piano, and it's discovered that the little girl, Lily may can sing, and so they kind of bond around that, and and that was you know, in the first draft. But for me, I wanted their connection to be a little darker, you know, in their symbiosis, you know, and that you know, the two sons are linked via trauma,

and so that was interesting. And the two husbands both shared the sense of disinheritance, and I found that interesting, like one who literally has title to the land and one you know, hap Jacks and who you could say is this is indeed like entitled to it, you know. And then the two women there are women who are kind of told by other husbands what to do and how to do it, where to spend the money, and

we're not and they're both disobedient. So that was kind of my way in By making the Jackson's equal, then you could have this kind of interplay between the two families and then this dark mirror of each other versus it being them, you know, um connecting something that was purely circumstantial, you know, and so um, so my approach was to write, you know, new material for the Jackson's, like right, rewrite their voice over so that they weren't

just like you know, what's already happening, but that they had a philosophy to a philosophy to them. So HAPs home monologue, Um, what good is a deed? So that's like original to the book original, you know, it wasn't the first script, but it's important to give half context with this land, Like he didn't just come with the cabin.

He has his own dreams and although circumstantially they're kind of locked into the orbit, you know, with Mcallen's, they have their own kind of trajectory that they're aiming for. And the same thing with like Florence. You know, for example, a scene where you know she's going to care for

the kids. So to me, the dramatic tension of that scene is not that it's a rainy, slippery night ride, but the tension in that scene is like the cognitive dissonance that Florence feels about doing the very thing she said you would never do. And so then suddenly like a scene is like more alive, it's more activated, and so I wrote that monologue. I remember my mother blew, you know, saying how she didn't see your mother that

often because you is working. Because then when she walks in the door and Laura's like, what is she doing here? We know that what hell, Florence don't want to be there either, you know, And so then there's a tension. But then they can, you know, come to see each other, relate as mothers at least, you know, but still there's like the darkness where, you know, when Pappy's kind of threatening her, you know, Laura's not running into help her,

you know, like Laura's not a savior. You know, Laura's getting what she needs out of this you know, moment, but she's not necessarily Florence is like staunch defender. So those are choices also that were made, you know, in the in the editing room. It's like I wrote like a lot of voice over in the edit, and I wrote, um, and we cut a lot of voice over that was originally scripted because it just felt like, you know, it

was telling us what we're already seeing. And I just believe that the audience is smart, and so I'd rather trust the audience to kind of make their own connections and to make their own investment versus being kind of like um explained to, you know, or shoved information at so um and my editor, I should mention is Michael commits, you know, and she was brilliant and I should, I should cut pay And I knew that was really going to be an editing feat to put this film together

in a way that avoids all the kind of tropes and pitfalls of you know, choice or it's like hard to do voice over like one characters. So the six, you know, Maco really help find like thematic links, you know. So for example, we intercut Hat breaking his leg with Runzel and battle and that that wasn't originally scripted that way,

but it created the psychic link. And Jamie we intercut his his dog fight with the girls with like whooping cough, So it wasn't originally scripted that way, but it created this thematic link. So again, everything is not so circumstantial, it's not episodic everything, you know, it gets back to

the theme of people fighting on their own individual fronts. Yeah, I was gonna ask if there was ever any thought given to like just narrowing the perspective at all, just just to kind of, I guess, make it easier on yourself as a writer or what have you. But a story like this, a book like that, I guess you just can't do that. I mean, it's these multiple perspectives and it has to you have to just figure out

how to best do that, right. Yeah, it's just like, how do you know, I think like when you started think about thematic links versus just like chronology or linear things. And for example, there are things Michael didn't edit. So for example, the home moment where um, Jamie and Laura get together. Originally that was supposed to happen, you know, um kind of after actually I'm sorry, before Pappy says I know about YouTube. And in the edit, michaels like

what if Pappy says I know about YouTube? And then they do it, and I was like, oh my god, that will never work. It doesn't make sense that because these guys talking myself about the baby, She's like, let me just try it, and so she did it and it activated that love scenes. So then like this kiss becomes very dirty because it becomes very subversive because you know they're doing it anyway, Like Pappy said, I know about YouTube and they do it anyway, and so that

then elevated that. So I think just you know, the edit is definitely like a rewrite, you know, the script, and it's a director. You're constantly kind of like just being honest about what's happening in front of you and trying to make it work. And as to mention, um, Michael Boyd, who is my costume designer on this and which is a huge part of it, because you know, the characters start to have names like Jamie's and darker colors Henry's and like noble colors, you know, and like

all that tells a story about saying much. And Michael did the costumes on Bessie, so it was like another way that Bessie kind of paid off because I was able to work with this guy who I knew could do a lot with a little Michael comes to his own truck of clothes and just makes it happen. And even my makeup artist, Angie Wells, I met her own press tour for Bessie because she did my personal makeup and I was like, oh, you can come and run

a department. So it's about, you know, kind of create this very like naturalist to look for this film where I didn't want people to feel like made up. So yeah, absolutely, Uh, the author is I believe she's planning a sequel to that novel um, which focuses on friends in Germany. Would you be interested in coming back to these characters. No, I'm sure she's going to find somebody else for that.

And honestly, that ending that was Virgilist ending and Hilary's ending wasn't like that, so I don't know that she was osually playing of that. But now she's adapting to Virgins. I'm sure you know they'll find somebody great for that. Yeah. Um,

how do you feel about the Netflix partnership? You had a number of choices in front of you almost a year ago, and Sundance, Well, I didn't really have a number of choices, Like that's the mythology of Yeah, nobody made offers on this film, Like people might have been interested, but not a single offer came through. You know. It's like Netflix that first like bought us, you know, and you know, bought us for what we're worth because they could have low balled us given that they weren't other

offers on the table. So then when you read the Annaparenta had a deal out there. You're that's that's actually not true. Yeah, and an apparenter can call me and show me the offer they put out there. No one, no one had put offers on this film before Netflix, did you know? And it is you know, going into the festal we had a lot of interest and people wanted to see the film early, and we wouldn't show it early. And then we cut to Netflix where no one's bidding on it, and so um, yeah, now and

a point at twenty four, none of that's true. Nobody put an offer. Um. I think that for me, I'm grateful to Netflix because if not for them, this film wouldn't be seen. Because Northern Studio trusted it. Norther Studio wanted to put the money into marketing it and to put it out there. So Ted Surrandos had the vision to see that this film was important, that people were smart enough and ready for this to put it out there.

So I'm grateful to them for it. And you know, going in this, my previous experience with Netflix had been with Parrie in a way. So even though Paria I got picked up by Focus Features, you know, it had a small theatrical release, but people didn't really discover Parrie until it was on Netflix, and like most people have seen it have only seen prior on Netflix. And the same thing with this one with mud Bound. You know, you just want your work to be seen, and so

this is like the greatest possible reach. So you know this we have like a day, we had a day and date release, it's in theaters and it's on Netflix. But it feels like it just kind of compressed the thing that often always happens with like indie films. Anyway, we'll tell me about the Sundayance experience for you that, like I said that almost a year ago, you were

up there. The new edition is kicking off this week or next week, and uh, you know, I just actually was speaking earlier to day with Luca Guadnino about his experience because a lot of the films in the you know, Oscar Race this year came out of Sundance last or

even get Out they had the surprise screening. So it's really interesting what was your experience like there, you know, send this for me is like you know, because you had had you been before, ye prior, right, we're there and then p yeah, yeah, no, so I mean that's for that reason. Sundance is always kind of a special place for me. It's like where I started and it was like the first institute that kind of like you know, supported me as an artist. So you know, being there

this time around, you know, it is good. It's like nerve racking because when you're there the film, it's like the audience's first response to it is the critic's first exposure to it. And you know, our Sundance went, you know, better than you could have imagined, you know, up until

like no one bidding on it. But I mean just like in terms of the critical response, in terms of the audience response, like that's the unknown, and so you know, when your first audience is like, yes, we like this, and when the first reviews come in and it seems to be going well, like, that's stuff you can't control because it's all subjectives. So when that happens, you're happy, and then you know, the commercial thing then hopefully comes later.

But yeah, what do you think of the crop of movies that came out of there, I mean they're just big sick your film Call me about your name? Get out, Patty Cakes, Patty Cakes. Yeah, there was the Wound was just a four and film from South Africa. You know, dots always do well out of there. Um, you know, what do you think about that crop of films that

came out and are still doing well in the awards season. Yeah, I mean it's fine, Like an opinion, I think it's great that, like, you know, a festival you know, can really kind of like shape the conversation around films. And I'm glad that, you know, I think it used to

be more kind of industry centric. When it's great that like, you know, this festival and other festivals are increasingly becoming like bridges and becoming kind of like tastemakers in a way for the general public that people actually pay attention and people actually watch, you know, and so it just creates um a culture I think in a way keeps alive kind of a culture of cinema watching and cinema critique and cinema going, you know, and doesn't let smaller

things kind of die on the vine or smaller things like not be seen. Yeah. And it's interesting too because it seems like movies rarely survive like the full year where you're still talking about a Sundance movie, you know, it's like maybe one a year, but that there were so many this year. It's just really cool. So yeah, it's good programming it out to Cooper. Uh. I also just watched your episode of Philip K. Dick's Electric Dreams.

I haven't seen any of them, but I realized you had directed one, and I figured I should watch that, and it was fascinating. Also loosely, very loosely based on the Hanging Stranger short story. Uh, talk about that and working in the world of Philip K. Dick. Yeah, what it's doing for a while. So, um, I was doing I did a Philip adaptation like a while back with Issa, and so I was, you know, Martian time slip and so this was great because you know that didn't work out.

But it's a call m it's a kay, like, come do this, and I was like, of course. And so sci fi has been a thing I've been trying to get into for a while. So it's great to do it. And it's just you know, because you can actually kind of say more in science fiction, actually do more and be more pointed in a way because you know, you're saying it's not us quite, it's not now quite. People.

I think can like, um, I think people have a greater critical distance and they can see themselves maybe in a way where in a weird way, you can go further, you know, sci fi. And I wrote I adapted Kill how others um is like right before the election. Like I finished it like a week after the election results, and so it was insane. So it was it was a perfect it was it was a perfect place to

put my energies. And it was like I wrote it, you know during like watching this campaign where I felt like this guy was saying you know, unbelievable things and it just felt like there's no one else hearing this, there's no one else reacting, and then the pundits would be reacting to the wrong things or asking the wrong questions and so um, you know, I really got to write this in a response to a moment where it felt, um like all was lost and so yeah, is uh

it's cool that the anthology world can allow you know, a filmmaker who's probably busy with other things to come in and knock off an episode like that. I mean, is TV something you want to dive into more? You've been trying to do TV for a long time as well. You know, like remember a while back, I was worked on a pilot where Hbo Valla Davis and that didn't go. And then I worked on things with Shonda Rhymes for

effects and that didn't go. And then before then I had a spect pilot around about Nashville that didn't quite go. So like, I've been trying to break into TV before, where like TV was cool. So it's to me, I see it as like a bigger canvas and it's someone who's interested in characters. TV is like gives you that more novelistic deep dive because you don't have to close every um bloop at the end of each kind of line. You can always kind of leave it open and really

kind of grow with the person. So I'm excited and um, yeah, we'll see what happens. Something like mud Bound could have an interesting life is like a longer you know presentation, you know, if it was like a mini series or something. Because it's such a dense piece of work. You know, that's interesting your next movie. Uh, I think it'll be

your next movie. This story of Gloria Steinhum and the push for equal rights um is very potent time for that kind of a project obviously, So I just wanted to ask you, what are you hoping to add to the overall discourse with that project. Well, I'm interested in focusing more on the failure to ratify the r A right.

And I'm also interested in like the messiness of feminism and how someonemen are left behind or someone they are celebrated, you know, who becomes quoted, who becomes erased, And so I'm exed and getting to the cracks of the movement and kind of like how this kind of coalition of people, you know, try to do something that didn't quite make it and and I think it's like, you know, something that is still being struggled with, you know, in terms of like how to kind of create change, how to

form coalitions. I feel like fast the thing we're still figuring out. So yeah, well good luck with that. And uh, definitely check out everybody mud bound. You can do it easily. You can just go on your computer or going your Apple TV or Chrome or whatever these things are called. And uh, watch Mudbound on Netflix. It's one of the year's best movies. And look, I really hope you get some really good news at the OSCAR nominations next week.

So good luck. Thanks and watching your laptop, because if your TV has that smart setting, it looks like hell yeah, thank you for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. Well, thanks for having me. Violence is part and parcel of punch your life. I learned how to stitch, typically wound, load, and fire shotgun. My hands did these things, but I was never easy in my mind. I held his heart beat in my head all the time he was gone. Only oh, I was a liberating people lined up in

the streets waiting for us. Sometimes I actually miss up gaming too. You were always talking about I wander o that PAS don't on the way to get up from under the fool. I don't want you working for I won't be working for them. I'll be working for I went off to fight for my country to come back to find the head and change a bit. I don't know what they let you do over there, but you are Mississippi now. You use the back door. Jamie saw in a different way, and when his eyes were on me,

I felt like I was no longer invisible. I've seen you slipping after him. Maybe Henry is too thick to notice, but you've been open your eyes. Big brother. You're so busy one about yourself. If you can't see your own wife is miserable. They worked this land or they lie. They used to walk away from fright. I'm a woman. The land that never would be theirs. You don't need gold, can't stay here. They were up until they sweated. They

sweating until they bleed. They bleeded till they died, and died crowing at the hall, brown back, that would never be theirs. And I think of the farm, I thinking mine, I dreamed, and brown you don fonn is so