Ep25 - Jordan Peele / "Get Out"

few months. I should say I'm here with Janelle again as well, obviously, and Tim Gray is back. Name like share Rihanna exactly. That one name is enough. And Tim was just talking to some foreign press. I'm curious, what

are they? What is their perspective on the Oscars? Tim Well, well, actually, um, people this year always want to know about of course, they want to know who's gonna win, and they want to know about Oscars so white, about the diversity, and you know, I think it's it's a valent question after

last year. But but I always feel like a little defensive for the people who were nominated this year and the truth of it is if you see those movies, you wouldn't have to ask, you know, are they being nominated for for the sake of diversity, because it's I mean, you know, like Fences, those performances, like I mean, they'd be amazing any year breaking news from the heartland. My parents loved Moonlight. They finally thought it and they loved it.

Yet well it wasn't what was the review going around this week in from the Times in London where the critic was like, who is this movie for? Certainly not the straight white males who will watch it. It was a pretty awful, terrible We only want to see movies about I would hate to see a movie about me. But then she ultimately came to shet of me. She ultimately came to some point that like the black people would not be interested in this film, and I was like,

what point are you trying to make? She took the hill you want to die on? Well, I mean, I mean, the truth of it is. I I will say, you know, journalists always try and see and things from an angle that most people wouldn't pick up on so and and and this week, of course, you know it's fashionable if a movie got nominated then there must be something wrong with it, so so let me explain why. But I

also feel like, you know what calmed down. I mean, yeah, she does have a point though, because I know only

superheroes like to see Avengers movies. Yes, exactly. Yeah, it's really not anybody else going going to those guarding the uh you know, the the sense of a meritok receiversus doing things for the I mean, do you get the feeling that Cheryl bon Isaacs at the Academy has acted like their initiative is what spawned these nominations because people keep talking about Cheryl's speech at the uh luncheon where

she said clearly progress has been made. But when she said that, I didn't take that as see you look at these nominees. I think it as we we added seven hundred voices and over two hundred or nearly three hundred of them more international people and blah blah blah blah blah. So what does the vibe you've gotten temp from the Academy on that score? Do you you get a sense of back padding out of self back padding?

I mean, I find the Academy is so secretive. I mean, they just have a culture of not talking about themselves, so so it's like they don't even pat themselves on the back. But I think I when when all the diversity discussion happened last year, Cheryl B and I has made a couple of statements about, look, we're going to set an example, because if you want the Academy to reflect the industry as it is today, it's like it's

going to be white males. But but she's saying, look, we're we're going to diversify and maybe they'll pick up our cues. So I kind of think that's what they're congratulating themselves about, don't Because yeah, I certainly can't imagine that you would expect that movies that were already in the pipeline that we're already filming happened to be movies anyway, that that that this reaction is somehow that I can't blame them for, you know, taking an opportunity to pat

themselves on the back a little bit. Though, yeah, I think they are making change. I think that's okay, but I also think it's it's kind of selling the other members short by just saying that's why Fences and Moonlight were nominated this year because of these come out last year. I totally agree, totally agree, um and I think we wouldn't have had the Oscar so White discussion. But I'm glad there was a discussion because I do think people in the industry are thinking maybe maybe we have been

a little insular in our thinking. Absolutely well, predictions, just give the people what they want. I've got a copy of our ballot and our magazine which has Jimmy Kimmel on the cover. I guess Kimmel not fallon too many Jimmy's and late what do we think about him as

the host? By the way, I'm so excited. I think he's a great host, that he did a great job with the Emmys, and I think he'll be just subversive enough and just uh doesn't give an f enough that will be Really I love Jimmy Kimmel, and for for years, because he's with ABC, I had heard rumors that some people wanted him, but they feared he was too edgy for us, God forbid, And I thought that's exactly what oscars need, is somebody a little edgy but also McFarlin. Well, well,

but I was talking to Austrian TV. I said, do you people know Jimmy Kimmel because his show is and they said, yeah, through social media, and I thought, oh god, I mean that's really thing because that would not have been the case fifteen years ago. But they said, you know he he and his people will post a little clips and stuff like that, so people they don't watch his show because it's not available in Austria, but but they know him. He said, I think he's a great choice.

I mean, Hugh Jackman would always be my first choice. But if you can't have him, you know, Hugh Jackman, j Kimmel, you're pretty much looking at the same always thought Kevin Spacey would have been interesting, but maybe not anymore. Yeah, I'm gonna get Janelle to roll her eyes for me. It hurts. It hurts so much. Let's make some predictions people, Alright, this is going to be easy. Come on, sound. Let's start with the sound category. Do you do that to me?

Sound mixing got to be an easy call, right, Well, yeah, I think see I was I thought it was I was taking that and sound editing. Yeah, maybe, I mean, I mean because I kind of actually, I kind of think one film is gonna win in both categories, but that might not be true. Um, but but La La Land or hacks O Rich for both? For you? Yeah, yeah, I think I think it's uh, well, I'm going with Laala for mixing, you are two, right, and then for sound editing, We're I'm on hacks Office because you know,

war film all of that. But I hear what you're saying. I mean they can't, like so many of these people don't know what the difference between these categories is that so, like,

you know, there's there's a tendency. I could get into some geeky stats, but I won't um stats about what about just about how how the sound categories play out when there's like, uh, you know, movies nominated in both categories like slum Dog Millionaire that year both of that in the Dark Knight were nominated in both categories and The Dark Knight one sound editing, but slum Dog ones sound mixing, And I think that's like split. They do split.

But that's like the only time where like like the movie that one sound mixing loss to another movie that was also nominated for sound mixing and sound editing. Does that make sense? You told me to go there, But I'm also curious, I mean, you know, part of the fun of oscars, and part of the frustration is that you never see the results. So out of like six thousand voters, you know, I'd love to know how many

people cast their ballots. And over the years, I've asked a lot of people, can do you know the difference between sound editing and sound mixing? A lot of people said, oh, I never vote on that category. People, I want to know if they really don't vote on it, or if they just say I love la la la exactly that I'm sure the sound was great. That could absolutely happen. Yeah, it's a musical, of course, the sound was great. Yeah. I rarely call splits on these just because of what

you say. It tends to be where they'll just for both of them, check check. I think they should combine these categories, and I appreciate the sound editors fought hard to have their own category years and then the show would be shorter. Yeah. I just I just think it's it's you know, Yeah, it's a little ridiculous for one branch to have two categories. And you could say something about the actors if you wanted to. So visual effects that's an easy call, right, Come on, what what do you.

I think it's jungle Book. Don't be scared to step up with you. I don't have Chris all memorized, and I'm not even sure what it's competition is. Yeah, it's gonna be jungle Book. Question there is do actors feel, you know, pushed out of the game with stuff like the effects work done in Rogue one? Maybe? I mean, I think and I don't know, but but I think actors feel threatened by motion capture. But the idea of I could have played that panther, you know, I don't.

I don't think they go so I I don't. I don't feel like Jungle bies threatening. They made this movie downtown Los Angeles. It's amazing, like in a warehouse. We had Jon Favreaux on the show. So yeah, I think we all think jungle Book for that film. Editing. You have the list, I do have the list. It is Stall Stall Stall. Well, I'm gonna jump in and I'm gonna guess has a Ridge on that one too? Really? Yeah? But but again, I mean, you know, La La Land is a favorite here. It's a rival Hexa Ridge, Hell

or high Water, La La Land and Moonlight. I U I'm leaning towards Tsa Ridge as well. But but you know, I mean seriously, Lawa Land could and also Arrival. Um. You know when when you look at even clips from that, you know, one minute clip, you think, wow, we've talked about that. The structure of Arrival is very dependent on the editing. Yes, I'm going with La La Land. I just yeah, which is interesting in that Manchester by the Sea was not nominating this category because again structure have

I have we talked about that on here we have? Yeah, Um, so you're both more hacks all. That's interesting. It won the Bathdoor Award. I didn't see that coming. So you know, if they like it enough, I could see that happening. It would be interesting if hacks all one film editing, sound editing, sound mixing, it would kind of make sense, like the Big War Movie nominated for Picture and Director. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's down to Hacks or La

La Land. And I'm just trying to be slightly subversive, not subversive. And I'm going with the say you you are subversive without even trying. Yeah, I'm grown woman in pigtails. I mean look about some versive. I am makeup and hairstyle. Speaking of pigtails. So we have a man called Star Trek Beyond and Suicide Squad. I'm calling Star Trek Beyond. Oh, I was going to say Suicide Squad. Really, Suicide Squad

would be an Oscar winning movie. But see, because I think, you know, and I keep be wrong, but I think, I think if all you have to do is look at photos from Suicide Squad, you know when photos from Star Trek or often of Chris Pine or something, and and but it's like if you get a shot of Isras Elbow, I mean, well, yeah, exactly, I mean look all three of them. It's like I feel like what always happens with Oscars. Everybody who was nominated deserves to be there, but there were a lot of people who

I also deserve to be there. There's a wide variety of stuff on Suicide Squad to like the whole squad. You know, everybody has a very definitive look Killer Croc with you know, his whole get up, and obviously the Joker, and you know, I just gosh, maybe I'm just angry at all the Harley Quinn inspired Halloween costumes. I had to endure that I can't give it up for the makeup in Hairstack. We all agree that the foreign film is probably not going to happen because who will have

seen it outside of people voting in foreign film? It's not in that category. Yeah, yeah, I kind of, I kind of. I'm not sure enough people saw that. Let's wake everybody up with some major category. All right, should go to screenplay. Let's go to a screenplays original screenplay? La La Land me too? Yeah, sold unanimous? Can we talk you into it or you that was your choice? Well, those people are picking Manchester on that. Well, I'm not sure why has it won any precursors won the back

won most of the critics prizes. Yeah, but I mean look, Keneth owner again is one of our greatest living writers. Like I, I get it, but um yeah, and I wouldn't be surprised. Actually, La and they both both lost the original and w g A, which is Moonlight. Yeah, and then Moonlight moved into adapted for the Oscars, really really messing up my pool. Yeah, uh no, I would not. I would not be surprised at Manchester one. Um, and I know, like a lot of people, we've had this discussion.

We Chris and I both think La La Land is a great script, and we don't understand the complaints that say that's the weakest part. Um. But yeah, I think it wins. Let me also say this is my like, you know, if I had the balls to pick it, I would category. I feel like Hell or High Water is a possibility in original street play that people don't see coming. Yeah. I mean, but but you know again, it's it's a script that you you notice, you know, because I think La La Land part of its virtue

is that it looks effortless. It looks, you know, if looks like it just happened, um and um. And with with Hell or High Water and with with Manchester, you could tell somebody sat down to feel the technique. Yeah, yeah, you feel that, which which you know. But I think you're probably right now, Chris. I am finally letting go of Tom Hanks getting an Oscar nomination this year. I think maybe you should let go of Hell or High

Water winning anything this year. I've never what do you mean you really think it could win Original screen Play? Have I harped on that? I don't. I don't think it's harped on. No, I'm just saying that I do. I think I think that's a lurking thing. Yeah, because that movie has gone over well with like, let's say it, the older white male demographic in the Academy, and it's it's picking up you know, Best Picture votes, and I don't know, I just think it's something that's Hey, I

told you all thirteen Hours was going to be nominator something. Yeah. No, I mean, you know, I'll never question you again. What about the screen? I am now convinced it will be Moonlight since it one the WJ and Original, although for a long time I was thinking Arrival and Lyne and even Hidden Figure you sneak in there. Yeah. No, I mean, I mean, you know, a lot of these very strong categories.

But but I do think it's it's Moonlight. Yeah. I mean winning the w g A against Layla Land in Manchester was a huge boon, and and I'm thrilled we all think Viola is winning supporting actress. I mean, is there even when I mean, if I if you were the person who beat Viola when you come, I would stay in my seat. No, I mean, you know, I mean there's always surprises with oscars, so I think it's possible. But I'm telling you, if I had to have pissed

somebody off. If I were betting money on the Oscars, that is the one category, the one wind that I would bet money because, I mean, she's electric, you know, it's you know, it's also got the narrative she's over you. Yeah, it seems it's like it's been unquestioned all year, like, oh yeah, Viola. Did you see Sam Jackson's rant about how that's not a supporting role. Yeah, he's not wrong. She would have won lead to by the way, convinced. I kind of think so too. It would have been

Denzel and Viola either way. Yeah, I think let's talk about best Actor, the best Actor. I think it's Denzel. He won the SAG Award. I'm think you know, I've been saying I was saying him even before. Yes, so were we. We thought it was a lock for the longest time. Yeah, yeah, I mean I drifted away just because Casey was so dominant in the well. I mean, Casey is excellent, he could win Best Actor, But I think going against what SAG picked is sort of foolish.

I'm going with Sag in each category. I'm going with the Stone also, Yeah, Emma Stone. I mean, who could even be mart. I'm sticking with my harshal Alley and I'm really nervous. You're nervous. If he doesn't win, there's gonna be some screaming coming from Culver City. Yeah, that's probably the one I'm most invested in, although I mean, come on, that category is Dev Patel is amazing. Michael Shannon, Jeff Bridges, Lucas Hedges, these are all great actors. But

I just love from Michael Shannon to win. That speech would be it'd be in the eazing. But you don't have to wait a little while. He's just gonna have to be content with continuously surprising us with his nomination. Michael Shannon will be just fine. He'll be He'll be back in a year probably and we can see his speech then. Cinematography, Uh La Land Lena's Yeah, Yeah, I think I think so too. Yeah A s c went to Lyon but slightly surprising but not terribly Yeah, um

La La Land won the bath too. I'm picking La La costume design. Costume design is Jackie La La Land, Lion, Moonlight and Passengers. Wait no, sorry, that's original score. I was like, that's an interesting lineup. I was like, wait, that can't be right. It is Jackie, Florence Foster, Jenkins, La La land You. I can't even find it. Oh here it is, yeah, allied fantastic to find jack and Lalla.

I'm kind of leaning towards Fantastic Beasts really yeah. I mean, look, I I like daring predictions, although I think it's La La land um. You know, I mean, you know, the conventional wisdom says, oh yeah, modern contemporary costumes ever again, but you notice the costumes in there, you know, I mean they're very striking. Really well yeah, well I think, well, Jackie, I mean that's amazing work. I mean it's a hard category. It's not obvious costume porn anywhere. Lae Costor Jenkins has

some beautiful costumes. But the remember the four Front I remember the main one at the end, remember like the angel thing, Yeah something, But like I think that's a lurking possibility actually, but I'm gonna go with Jackie. I think, yeah, the best thing about Fantastic Beast and where to find

them is the costumes. I'd say the production design actually, which I think has a possible shot at winning won the BAFTA UM although it lost its category at the Art Director's Guild to Passengers, Well, here's the thing about production design, and we have a rival fantastic beasts Hail Caesar, La La Land and Passengers have David and Sandy wasco ever one before. That's insane to me. They're nominated this year for La La Land. They did, Um, we're all

tennant bonds. They do all Quentin Tarantino's movies. Talk about over too. Yeah, like I'm picking Yeah, yeah, although I mean I don't know. Did you see Hail Caesar? Of course, I mean that would be my personal choice. I mean it's so it's so amazing, and you know again that that was done in a very limited budget. Um, well, Passengers is great too. Well yeah, yeah, I'm going with law Land. With Arrival of the Spoiler, I think really like a place where you could award it and it

does have like some iconic already. Yeah. So, um, do you want to films or have you guys seen the shorts? You know, I've only seen some of the Yeah, um, so directing, directing, is there any question? I don't think so, Damien Hill at least whever. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean there's always upsets, but I think it's not going to be in that. What's the record the youngest okay five years? Um, yeah, and so deserved picture. Yeah, I'm gonna go with oh, don't even oh, I got Yeah,

did we miss anything? We did? We missed? Documentary feature? Documentary feature. Well, that's an interesting category. Yes, I am sticking with thet I'm trusting people to do the right thing and recognize that O J Made in America is not a movie as possible. I mean, but I mean, I will say I think this has been an amazing year for documentary year. Those five terrific, but there's also like another dozen that we're really amazing that weren't not. Yeah,

I kind of think you're right. I kind of think it's thirteen. But um, I mean I am not your Negro Life, Animated Fire at Sea, these are these are all really good. Yeah, I don't. I don't have the guts to be too uh adventurous here, So I'm gonna go with OJ. You know what we fort was foreignlanguage film, just foreign film. I think, like I said, I think a man called Ova is going to be there, you thinkin Yeah, I mean, it's just it's the most palatable

of the nominees. It's uh, you know, it's charming. I think it's like I just was talking to somebody. I call it like the palatable Tony Erdman. Actually, you know, it takes Tony Erdman an hour and a half to get going right, like man called Ova. It's really hits. It strided early, and it's charming and you know that it's a dark comedy and all that. Actually it would be my personal pick probably, but I think it's going to be the Salesman on as a legit like this

is what we think protests. I'm sure protest doesn't hurt, and the fact that the title is out there because of the protests, But I mean, you know, he's also a great filmmaker, and people genuinely do love that movie. So you think I mean, I I think it's it's Salesman too by exactly for the same reasons you did. I think. I think, I think it's a really good film, and I think people can vote for it with a clear conscience. But the topicality of it, it's like a

little bonus. You know. We skipped the music, yes, Lala Land and both the original Storm song. Which song is the question? City of Stars, City of Stars. Yeah, it's not the best of the two songs nominated. It's not Auditions the best of the of the two nominated. I think, did you like Audition best of all the songs in the movie? No? No, Another Day I've Done is my favorite, and I also like the opening is my favorite. Somewhere in the Crowd is a great song. That's the one

just goes on. But I also like the John Legend start a Fire song that is so damn catchy and I have been caught in my car singing along that. But but see, I love the audition, So I mean, you know, I don't want to be a spoiler for anybody who hasn't seen the movie, but it's you know, it's three quarters of the way through it. But I feel like that that one song kind of sums up

the whole movie. Yeah, that's that's not the kind although it's not something that you would expect to hear a lot of covers of and in the next ten years.

By the way, um, I don't know if you read my piece about the anatomy of the song, but you know the song um City of Stars, which was originally written from a stone to sing and then they realized she had this big number at the end with Audition, and it kind of took away from the power of it, and um Sebastian Ryan Goslin's character really needed his own number, so they sort of transferred it over to him better with it does John Legend will be performing both. He

is he's performing audition. Oh miss that? No? Yeah, yeah, he's performing both. I okay, it seems weird, right, like very weird. The City of Stars. I can see him singing audition like yeah, I mean, I wouldn't see what he does with it. I guess I don't think he's not going to sing the whole song, probably right, Oh, you might be right, Like maybe he'll do part of that.

I kind of hope he does. I hope he does it acapella, sing the whole song, because why would you just do a medley of those because they're gonna sing all of the others. I'm sure, are you? Because remember was it last year they no, this has been announced? Yeah, men was gonna sing the Moana song and what are the other two nominees? Oh? Yeah, is going to sing his song. So some years they've done a medally five

songs all at once and stuff like that. But they did the Dreamgirls medley of the three well, there was a big controvert one. It was that big. But a couple of years ago when they didn't or was it last year when they when they when they cut, they cut two of them. They cut the song from mantur Rage and it was just strictly because they were not well known performers, which is ridiculous because talk about a song that's like integral to the plot, Youth that that

song was the movie. I didn't like that movie, but I thought the song was the category should be exactly. Yeah. I think that's all of them and we've gone along. Yeah, so every ones like get it over. No, people are dying and there our opinions. Um, so what did we decide for it for a song? Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, definitely all right. I think we're on the record for everything now. I don't think we missed were voting his clothes, so nobody can be angry with that's true. That's true.

Wait animated film so Utopia oh oh yeah yeah obviously yeah yeah, going out on a limb with Yeah, you should have been nominated the best which was fun. Yeah. So the show is Sunday. Any last thoughts. I mean, you know, we could talk about how political do we think the acceptance speeches are going to get, but that's that's a whole nineties. I hope Jimmy presses the buttons. I'm sure he will. Like My prediction is he drops an F bomb? Really sure? Why not? Just one? Just one? Yeah?

I don't know what else we have to say here, but anyway, those are a predictions. Enjoy the show. Thanks for coming on show, Tim, Congratulations to both of you for exhausting Oscar season. I mean seriously, but did great work. Thank you so much. And uh oh, by the way, I should probably tell everyone who I'm about to talk to on the show. I'm so excited, just so you know. This isn't like strictly an awards season thing. This should make it clear that we're gonna keep it going in

the off season. I'm talking to Jordan Peel from Get Out. Oh my god, so exciting. Yeah, that is excited. Did you see get No, I haven't seen you seen it soon, I've seen it tonight. Yes, I cannot wait. This movie has been eluding me and I have been in love with it since the trailer it's pretty twisted, but anyway, stay tuned for Jordan right after this. You got your too? Do you have your own do you have your cozy clothes? Did you know him? Black? Should? You might wanta you

mom and dad. My black boyfriend will be coming up this weekend. I just don't want you to be shocked. But he's a black man. I I've never seen you like this before. Broamily and take a road trip. Don't come back, old bis, come back, get your day of pants up to your damn stomach. Anything. So you guys coming up from the city. Yeah, we're just heading up for the weekend. Can I see your license? Please? He wasn't driving. I didn't ask who was driving. I asked to see his I d come back and be so

look I go do it my restarch. Apparently a whole bunch of brother has been missing in this suburb. But it's cool, Grond, you're not scared of this man. You can see no brother among you. Chris was just telling me how he felt much more comfortable with my being Yo. Sorry man, get out, Yo, it's a terrible things to me. Welcome back everyone. I'm here with the writer and director of Get Out. You know I'm from Matt d v Ky and Peel Jordan Peel. Thanks for coming on the

show Man. Thanks you really having me. Uh, this movie is messed up, which is the reaction you want? I would imagine that's what That's what I'm looking for. We're gonna talk about it deeply in a second, but before I want to talk about Sundance, Because you went to Sundance with this movie and had the big kind of surprise unveiling and all of that. What was that like for you? Oh? That was surreal. I mean it's such

an honor. You know, it's like, you know, I'm such a film geek, such a movie buff, and you know you said you can't really you know when when you when you're dreaming of you know what it might be like if you get to make a movie you don't include, Like, yeah, you might get to go to Sundance. Um, it was cool. It was a blizzard and it felt like that wasn't up there, but I heard it. I felt like scat Man Cruthers and the shining like trying to get to

little Danny Torrence. Um, he says that what he's wearing an a look hotel. I'm I'm right now, and yeah, I'm totally I'm totally encased in Uh the shining swag? What was? What? Did you feel the love up there? Was? Because I wish I could have been there when I heard that it was gonna screen, but it had to be a fun crowd for that. I did feel the love. You know. I've seen the movie several times in different theaters, and the most satisfying thing is like that, you know,

everybody's kind of united with their reactions. Um. I think the scares get get jolts, the laughs get laughs, the cheers get cheers um pretty consistently, and sun dance. You know, you can just feel that excitement in the air that they knew when they were the first to get to

see this movie. Uh. You know, I read something recently somebody said that writing comedy and writing horror are not too far afield because they exercise the same muscles, you know, like fear and security aren't too far from each other. It's kind of the point. I'm curious if if that's how you found it. I mean, obviously this is a a comedy horror film and in its way, but it's it has you know, that's there's something too that I feel like the exercising the same kind of muscles with

both forms. So it felt like the comedy education that I got I've gotten the last you know, decade or so worked perfectly in this film. Um. You know, I feel that both horror and laughter are ways we we face our demons, way ways that we deal with our fears of death in a way, um, it's about tension, tension, tension, and then release with a certain pinpoint precision and um, you know in the in in a way, the tension, tension, tension and release is kind of a a metaphor for

life and death in a way. You know, we spend our whole lot ives fearing the ultimate absurdity, which is that this is a temporary That's right, that's right, that's true. Uh. I went to the You had the kind of premiere in L A l A live screening your head that last week, and you said beforehand that for you, uh, growing up race was like a nightmare. That was how you put it, and you wanted to put this nightmare on the screen. What it got me thinking was what

was the chicken and the egg? Like, did you want to make a movie with those themes in mind? And then you kind of gravitated into a horror film or did you want to make a horror film? And these are the themes that came up that you wanted to explore within that I wanted to make a horror film. Yeah, I just you know, I've I've I've I've had the dream of being a director since I was since I

was younger, being specifically a horror director. And um, you know, part of the process of figuring out what I could bring to the genre that would be of any worth or anything I would be proud of. Um, you know, I I realized that I've sort of done enough thinking about race, enough work in the comedy space about you know, walking that line how to deal with race and art,

that I was kind of uniquely equipped to deal with it. Um, you know, I think, you know, yeah, not only is race a nightmare for me, you know, I think that the greater point is that, um, you know, race in this country is is a and in the world is this human demon. It is a monster that we is in our d n A. And so I just felt like race was I realized it's if anyone was going to make a modern move horror movie about race, it should be me. Did you figure feel yourself like, were

your self governing it all? Like, oh that's too far, I need to pull back on that. Or did you just kind of let yourself go as far as you felt like you wanted to go. It's it's yeah, it's all self governed. Really, you know, it's you ask yourself, you know a lot of questions. But ultimately, um, you know, you sort of realize that you can't write a movie with the um taking into too far into consideration how how the people will react to it, whether or not

you can sell this movie. Um, I really wrote this movie for myself. UM, to say, look, this is gonna be a fun project to write. It is Um if I was right, a movie, my favorite movie that doesn't exist yet? What is that movie? And I just followed that um fun Um. You know it's kind of you know, it's how I imagine um Tarantino works. It was one of the great like you know, you can just tell he's not making a movie for anyone else. He's making

the movie he wishes. Um someone wants. Yeah. Uh, you mentioned you were you were a horror from fan to begin with, you know, beyond obviously shining I imagine, what are some of your favorites. Uh, so you know, talking about him a lot, but Rosemary's Baby and The Stepford Wives are just you know, total classics and and um thrillers that are in a model that doesn't often get UM visited because I think it's it's it's tough to write movies like that. Um. I love Candy Man, I

love Nightmare eld Street. Yeah. Also like another one of the rare movies that yeah, horrifying and and and it you know, based on this amazing UM short story by Clive Barker. Of course, um the film version touched on race in a way that was pretty novel to me. Um. We were in this era for a while where the

monsters and horror movies where the main characters. Right, we were in this like Freddie Jason, Mike Myers, this sequel thing, and so you know, the opportunity to have a black monster or was a pretty revolutionary and it still is. Tony Todd, right, Tony Todd. And then I remember like a few years later there was this movie Wishmaster, and like didn't that have like all of them, Like Tony Todd was in it, and h the guy that played

Jason I think was in it. It was just this weird I think it was that movie we had a bunch of I saw that one in the theater. Um, it was no candy Man, let's say the least about leprecaon Jennifer Aniston, you know Anniston's first film. Um. You know, yeah, it was weird. It was a weird zone for horror.

And you know, I think sort of opened up by you know, well, first Psycho, but then you know, the the Stalker films of the late seventies and early eighties opened up this idea that we as the audience could relate to the killer in this weird way, and and that we we sort of cheer the you know, sort of hate the victims and very very kind of alarming, uh climate for horror for for a kid to grow up in, especially um and and very interesting that we we sort of as a you know, you know when

you see when you see the trends of horror movies take off or or connect, um, it is because there's something in the zeitgeist that is is propelling that that need you know that that the the that that that demon is something that we have to deal with. So yeah, very very interesting that that era of horror exists. Uh. I wonder if you could kind of throw out like the log line here, I'm I'm scared too. I don't want to like it's a very spoilable movie, very so.

So I'm sure you've perfected it by now. But let the people know what what the movie is about. Well, you know in space it's it's it's the horror version of guests Who's coming to Dinner. It's a simple way to look at it. It UM. It is about an interracial couple that goes to meet um, the white girlfriend's parents house, and and it explores this sort of feeling of the alienation that the that Chris the lead, feels

of being the other. And uh, as the movie goes on, it inches towards this inevitable UM finale that is darker than UM anyone could have predicted. Which is why I said, has messed up in a good way. I'm curious. You know, we talked about these movies that you loved. How did

they inspire you? Especially visually when you have visual ideas for the movie, when you're working with your DP Toby Oliver, and you're you're kind of coming up with ways to inform the visual storytelling, like what what what did you guys look at if anything? Like talk to me about that. Several things. I mean, certainly we looked at the idyllic nature of Stepford Wives and the beauty of the Overload Hotel and Shining Um, we looked at uh, you know,

Polanski's use of shadow and Rosemary's Baby. Um. You know. Also, something that was very important to me and I think we will continue to be in cinema is the idea of depth. Um. It's one of the great illusions that a film can make is that you know, there's there's depth to this screen. So you know, there's a scene where Walter's running at Chris in the middle of the night, and there's a very visceral sort of reaction that the audience I think has you sort of sinking your seat

at this guy coming towards you. And that's you know, that's of course, like you know, what what what what? What was it where they had the train, you know, one of the first great train robbery, Like they thought it was coming through the screen. It's a visceral thing. Also, you know the planes in the plane in north By Northwest, Um, you know. I I think it's important to take advantage of the the depth and how how how deep, how

the illusion of seeing something far away in a movie. Uh. Was there ever a moment where you thought about playing the lead or was it always something you wanted to direct? You know, the people brought it up to me from time to time. It was it was always something I an idea. I rejected, um, first of all, because you know, I don't I just don't think I'm right for the movie. Uh. I have too much of a comedic connotation first of all. But I'm also I'm too old and I'm not good

enough as an acts. This guy well you know, hey, it's if I could do what Daniel Kluya does in this film, I would be doing it. He's fantastic. What brought you to him? Was he uh high on the list? I guess yeah he was? He was. He was. He was the highest on the list from the beginning, and he was you know, his Black Mirror episode was um, uh just amazing performance. And then seeing him in Sicario was great. Uh. You know, the search for for who Chris was I think began with a skype with him.

Um and um, you know, my only My only doubt about casting him was that he was He's British American and you know, did feel important to me to um, you know, represent a distinctly African American point of view. But after talking to him, UM, you know, he's opened my mind a little bit on how, yes, we have a you know, somewhat of a unique relationship to race in this country, but UM that the idea of race, the idea of the other, um is a really universally

human thing. And they have you know, very you know parallel stories UM civil rights uh questions UM in England as well. UM. And you know what's great about him too, is he's he's a great like reactor, like you know, just how he'll give a look or like absorbment from me when you're watching him absorb something that's going on around him. Like he's really good at that, I find.

And that's that's crucial in this movie. Obviously so crucial because you know when he you know, we get we get on the set and we're sort of realizing, you know, Daniel, his character that doesn't have as many lines as you would expect a lead of a movie to to have. He's you know, he's put in this awkward position where, um, you know, he's he's at his possibly his future in laws, um house, and so you know, everything that goes on in his mind has to sort of happen internally, and um,

and it does. He's so good at being in the moment, and we can sort of read, um, read his face in a way that allows each and every member of the audience to feel aligned with what's going what what he's dealing with. Uh. I understand your mom saw the movie. And I asked, because by racial your mom's white, So I'm very curious what she thought of the film. Um. She she loved it. She um, you know, she she you know gets it. And obviously I'm proud that everybody

so far who's seen the movie seems to get it. Um. But you know, it's you know, my mother, Um, you know, she's she's my number one fan. Um. It's like like Cathy Bates and misery. Like sometimes I'm literally not allowed to leave the house now. Um, yeah, she totally if she's a mommy dearist, she she ate it up. She she introduced me to horror to an extent, and she was one of the first people who, you know, I think when telling me about Rosemary's Baby, um younger as

in it was a you know phenomenon. It was a book phenomenon um as a novel before it was a a film and uh, you know she was telling me, you know it has it captures some quality that she related to about, you know, when she was pregnant with me, where there are these feelings of UM insecurity, UM paranoia,

UM or perceived paranoia or doubt UM. So uh, you know, I don't know I that that that meant something very power, something I just remember as a kid that you can capture um A, you can capture a feeling, you can capture uh an identity and a uh a person's true fears that they feel like maybe only they have UM with A with a film. Yeah, definitely. I had kennethna get in here last week on the show talking about Manchester by the Sea, and that explains why you're not

phased by my celebrity at all. You're as very cool as a cucumber. You're dealing with dealing with here, he's amazing. Yeah. Well he was telling me that, you know, he wrote Manchester not expecting to direct it. Uh, and then over time he came to be the director. So he found that he had written himself into a number of corners as a director. Uh, now he had to solve problems

that he didn't expect to have to solve. I'm just curious if if you discovered that kind of a thing, like when you wrote the script, did you find that you had written yourself into like some tricky scenarios that you suddenly had to figure out as a director on the set, and you think come to mind like that, Yeah, maybe, uh, maybe slightly. You know, I did have a similar experience where I wrote the movie. I didn't think anyone was

going to make the movie. Um, and then when it was when when it was begune when I when I or I had come up with the idea, and then you know it was it was bought off of a pitch. I started writing it halfway through the script realized that was the guy who needed to direct this movie. Um. By the time we shot, you know, I I had

it pretty worked out. But it's it is a movie that really anywhere, any wrong choice, any wrong um piece of the narrative risks either giving something away or frustrating the audience because because of the the you know, we we want the lead character to be as smart and observant as we feel like we we would be in this situation. So a lot of the cleanup work was based on, Okay, how do I how do I keep us trusting that we're in good hands with this protagonist? Um?

And that that that um, you know that that contained a little tweaking on, you know, of of all the characters, occasionally constantly having my mind on that. And I'm sure the answer to this question is numerous things. But is there anything specific that stands out that you learned on this first go edit that you know you're gonna cling to going forward with future projects. Yeah, I mean there's a ton. I learned so much. I learned that, Um, any any problem that arises is an opportunity to make

a really great decision. Um So when when when? When? When? When those problems arise, cherished them, worshiped them. You know, look at what Spielberg did with Jaws, right, the shark didn't work and so he ended up making the best

movie of all time because of that. UM. Uh So there's that um and uh yeah, just a general sense of it's it's at the end of the day, it's like it's a collaborative process, but it's got to rise and fall on your vision and um, you can't you can't make any sort of conceit that you'll regret for the rest of your life. And a big part of this equation obviously is the bloom House and those guys

have figured something out because they're they're crushing it. Uh absolutely, what were they like as partners on this and and uh you know it was there was was did Jason, you know, did did they teach you something? As well as throughout the whole Yeah, I mean was a perfect um producer for this movie for many reasons. First and foremost, Um, you know, they've created a model that allows you know, untapped voices and perspectives like myself to make the movie

we want to make um. And so you know within that, you know there's a there's a protection there, um because it is you know, that's that's just that's just how they work. And then um, you know, there's also just a great advantage to having someone like Jason in your corner because he is he's a character, he has an infectious energy said, I's got a lot of energy. Yeah, yeah,

it's And if you meet him. It's it's no secret why he's it's it's no secret, no mistake why he has created this absolutely massively successful empire, because, um, he's a he's just a force of nature. He's a he's a moving train, and um, he's he's one that it's it's good to be in the caboose of That doesn't sound that's an interesting way to write it when I frame it, phrase it like that, but you know, and metaphorically I get it. I get it. Good to be

in Jayson Bloom's caboose. Don't paraphrase. We'll just well, well you can delete stuff from this, right, but I'm keeping that. Uh, what do you want to do going forward as a director? Do you do you want to stay in the genre? Do you want to move out? Do other things? Like what what kind of stuff do you have on deck? I want to stay in the genre. Nice, I've got um. You know, while I was developing this movie, I was

also simultaneously developing four other projects that I call social thrillers. Um. Each one is meant to deal with a different human demon, a different uh monster that sort of works underneath the way we interact with one another as human beings. So um, yeah, so I hope to uh soon direct another one of the social thrillers. It's not going to be about race. It will be about something else, but um, it's gonna

be very cinematic and fun. Cool. Socio political stuff though is kind of top of mind those It's kind of just feel like the you know, you to come up with the perfect monster for a horror movie, Um, we really need to look no further than the monster that is all of us. Um, you know, not not so much an individual psycho killer, but um, the the humanity that gets lost between us, which makes me this my last question, uh, you know, kind of going back to the theme of race, but you know broader as well.

Not to be labor this particular point, but we have I think, an objectively bigoted chief executive right now. So just curious, like, what do you think the role of I was gonna say comedy, because you know, I came to comedy. I came to key imp Peel late in the game, Like I think I started watching it a couple of months before you announced that it was going to be finished, which was a bomber man. But you know, you guys did some important stuff in the socio political

realm with that show. So what do you think the importance of art of comedy, of you know, what you what you do is going to be underneath this particular regime, if you will, Well, I think it's extremely important. I think I think um art, I feel like comedy, horror, um, the art of storytelling, Uh, really are such key pieces

of the conversation. And you know, the conversation as a as an as a concept is is really it's all we have to combat the real life horrors of violence and of um neglect and how we treat each other. So I just think that you can't you can't um overstate um, how how important comedy and story and horror are. Do you miss Kim Peele? Yeah? I miss Key and Peele. I missed playing Obama. Well now I'll whip that out in the time someone asked for it. So no, clearly

I'm shameless. Um, I miss I miss Obama in the White House. Um. But yeah, you know Key, you know Keegan and I we we we were bicoastal right now, so you know, I feel like I got my brother in New York and I'm here in l A. We we will connect again. Awesome we'll look forward to that and uh, maybe you could do like a funnier die thing with Obama on vacation when all this ship has been going on. You know, let me let me tell you something about Obama on vacation. UM. I need to

get away from this mess. All right, y'all, y'all done messed up. I'm gonna go Parasalem. I'm gonna get on a jet ski and just go to the Bermuda Triangle, hopefully end up finding a stargate, end up on another planet. Is this y'all? Y'all, don't messed up. I don't think anybody blames him me there. Well, movies, get out, go see it comes out tomorrow. It's a nice uh you know two weeks later Valentine's Yeah. If you forgot to

take your take your significant another out, check out Jordan's movie. Jordan, thanks for coming on the show man. I really appreciate it. Right, Thanks for listening everyone, Remember to subscribe and check back next week when I'll be talking to Logan director James Mangold. You've been listening to playback at Variety