Ep22 - Barry Jenkins / "Moonlight"

It's very important, I promise you. Sorry on your time. Yes, because there's nothing more interesting than listening to a podcast of somebody sending an email. You can make it work. Yes, SAG Awards. So big surprise to me was less Denzel Washington than Hidden Figures. I know you had been mentioning Hidden Figures and it is an ensemble that's picked up awards,

but I just it beat some heavy hitters. The only reason I didn't ultimately pick Hidden Figures as the ensemble winner was because I had heard they didn't send screeners, they only sent digital and I was like, well, Moonlight's been out for a while, they sent screeners. I went with Moonlight, but I mean everyone has seen Hidden Figures and it's got everyone, and I mean you've got Jim Parsons from The Big Bang Theory, You've got Kevin Costner,

you know, aside Kirsten Duns. That's like it every somebody. That movie has everybody's favorite actor and it's somewhat true. Yeah, so not a surprise to me. Also not a surprise considering that they really kind of spread the wealth, you know, someone from Moonlight one, two people from Fences. Um, I it's the only thing that really went home empty was

Manchester Chesse, which had more nominations than anyone. I can't remember how often that's happened where the movie nominated for A four has gone home without any award, but maybe it's happened frequently. I don't know that was surprising. But then at the same time, you're talking about like a hundred and fifty thousand people. So a big broad quote unquote populist performance like what Denzel gives, which I think is you know, right up there with Casey's. I'm not

sure knocking it at all. Well, you and I have always thought that Denzel what could win this. Yeah, I mean from the beginning I thought he was going to just because and I'm talking Oscar now because Casey gives such an internal performance and that can be harder to get everyone to say, yeah, that's the best performance. But then Casey dominated to the extent that he did. And I know we all say critics are not Oscar voters or SAG voters, but when something like that happens, it's

like wow. It's strange to me though, that even now people are still saying Denzel isn't the front runner, you know. I mean, Casey could still win. Don't get me wrong, I think Ryan Gosling could still win, but I mean we have to acknowledge that Denzel is the front runner with SAG, because if you're gonna call something a front runner based on, you know, the kinds of people who are voting, then sure, but that's the last award he's going to be able to win, right. He's not up

for the BAFTA, which is very strange. BAFTA awards happened the day before the Oscar ballots go out. If Casey doesn't win BAFTA, that's a bad sign for him. But I think he's going to win DAFTA. Although again I'm telling you, I'm keep an eye around Goslin certainly Emma Stone obviously one. Yes, that was. I think it was a very tight race between her Natalie Portman because a

lot of SAG actors really love Natalie's performance. But yeah, I think I think Emma has this sewn up at this point, and in lieu of a an ensemble nomination for the film, yes, which again I think people could put too much on. I don't think it's I don't know if people really vote that way. Like people will say things like, you know, Denzel one, because he'd never won a SAG Award before, and I was like, most people vote for the person they want to out for,

and they don't like parse out things. I always think of Birdman, like everybody said, well it won't win, give screenplay to Boyhood, or they'll give director to Boyhood. No Birdman one pictures start checking off movies. They're just like chick Chick, Chick chick. Which is why Ryan is a possibility, which is why you know, I don't quite get the urge to assume La La Land is not going to win screenplay, which we've talked about. That's ridiculous, Like why would it not. It could win all top five. I

guess the first movie to do that. In Silence of the Lambs, there's only three that have done it. It happened one night, and what's the other one's of course only three. Yeah, it's kind of one of those Oscar stats that ever all the Oscar hounds, I feel like we're going to happen again. It could happen. Yeah, Well, we were due for a record tying nomination slate, which we got out of the fourteen nominations, and we could

be due for a record tying win slate. I mean, I still think that that's a movie that can win eleven Oscars because it doesn't have competition throughout these fields, and who were I don't see them pick like Allied for costumes or Fantastic Beasts for production design or something like maybe a rival can grab something like production design,

but I don't think so. Like I just think, especially with the expressionistic elements at the end of this film while I'll end, and the way that sets it put together, and I just see them checking it off pretty much down the line. And then maybe the two songs can cancel each other out or something. Yeah, but even I don't think that's happening. I think it's winning song too, you think it's winning sound editing that I don't know.

I mean, I don't know. Do musicals usually win in that category never get nominates, So it's like an uncharted territory. So who knows? Well, uh at the SAG Awards, Mahrschel Ali just hershela. We need like a theme whenever we say Mihrschel's name to just talk. Right before he wont, I was like, if he wins, watch out for the speech. And that speech brought the house down in his way. I mean, he's such a quiet, like just soulful good

soul was a great word. He's just humble and kind, gracious. Yeah, and looked really good and he does and he spoke directly to something without really bringing it up. Yeah, you know, I mean, I I just it was a very political night, and there were there were explosions regarding that, you know, like from Julia Lee Dreyfuss or you know, more pointed from the Oranges it's a new black cast and then me Herschel I gave a more personalized kind of addressing

of that situation, which I thought was very interesting. It was very people were very active on the red carpet things. Well, yeah, um, I mean I don't think everything everything I did on the Red Carpet got put online, but enough of it for you to get a sense of it. Yeah, and uh yeah, people people do not hold back, you know.

Brian Craston was very diplomatic, and he translated over to his speech where he was like, you know, I'm really He didn't say he was rooting for Trump, but he's like, you know, I want this to work because we're screwed otherwise. I don't think anyone wishes for the failure that he's

charging towards charging towards I think yeah. And also Cranston had a lot to say about Trump last year too, when he was yeah, like he he had, of course, if we're asking him about it, a lot, and uh, you know, he probably got tired of talking about it, so now he's just yeah, he sees that question coming. Is like I told you that, Um, I finally got to meet John to Tuo on the Red Carpet and he was having none of my nonsense. No, he was. He was very nice, but you know, he's a serious actor.

He probably isn't prone to sound bites. And uh, you know I was, I was you know, a little jokey and you know how you get on the red carpet. It's a very different type of interview that I'm sure he's used to. And he was just very He was funny because he was so serious, you know what. I'd like, try to talk to him about a foot x amount. He'd be like, well, it's a very serious problem. And I was like, I mean maybe he was. He could have been joking. He's a brilliant comic mind, so very dry.

But um, that was a surprising category because but John Tatur and rizam Ed nominated against each other, might have canceled each other out. Sterling K. Brown nominated against Um Courtney Bevan, Yeah, might cancel each other out. And people love Brian Cranstjohn that's one Cranston Yeah, oh yeah, yeah for all the way. The Crown people are really fun to talk to about what they think of American polidays. I bet yes. I stopped Matt Smith and Claire Foy and I was like, so, how do how are we

coming off to you guys over there? And they you got to see their faces. I think it's I think it's up on variety because they're like, not good guys. Well, look, they certainly had their moment a few months ago with Brexit, so exactly. Say, Guy Lodge on our staff was here over the weekend. We we caught up and U we were talking about that everybody. He said that over there, it's more like it's it's less like people are like, oh god, what's wrong with the Americans and what's wrong

with the world. I mean, yeah, we see it about to happen with France too. I mean it's yeah, I should specify that, Matt and Claire, We're not saying America doesn't look good. They were just saying, you know, so to speak. G A obviously big shocker. Okay, tell me the truth. Did you pre write your story about La La land winning hours before it was announced? I had it ready to go. I had it ready to go.

I did. I mean, because come on, and what he's got to win the d g A right, like I think, so unless it's Berry Jenkins at the end of that nine hour nine I'm sure he will win. And can I just use this opportunity to reiterate something I have to say every year, which is that ensemble does not equal picture and yes, hidden figures one ensemble I mean, hey, it could win Best Picture. I'm not ruling anything out,

but don't think that because it one SAG ensemble. What it did was provided an opportunity that Tag nailed exactly and I could see it, you know, just like with the Golden Globes effect, like gathering some steam from voters saying I think I want to I wish Oscar voting was still open, and then maybe Taragi could have gotten a nomination the way Meryl's Globes speed truly sealed the deal for her. Yeah. Um. And also you know, one of my favorite SAG wins is a bird cage. Also

to your point, not the Best Picture contender. But yeah, and so that's this weekend, DJs, this weekend and a s C. The cinematographers Santa Barbara Film Festivals gearing up and they bring all the nominees in to have tributes and whatnot. So that'll be happening. Did you go to the Editing Awards? I did not go to the ACE Awards. Um arrival one there, yes, which you have said, you know you think I think, yeah, just the structure, you know, I mean, it's the editing is on display, so I

could see that happening. But again, you have to be and it's right down the line on that movie. So the backlash is naturally on schedule with La La Land. Here it is, you know, the jazz. The dubious angles regarding how it handles jazz has been have been flying around and I'm just like, what so threatening about this movie? How can I you know, if it's not your thing, that's fine. But people who have decided they hate this movie, I'm like, how can you hate something that is about joy?

You know, we're at this We've reached what it is I think is we've reached the spot where in a year of such diversity an inclusion represented in the nominations, that a movie like La La Land Winning, which is granted about white people with champagne problems. Uh, somehow flies in the face of that. And I don't know, I have a hard time. Wait, is an Ma Stone half Hawaiian? Oh No, that was a different movie. Sorry, oh man deep cut Hey, she made fun of it herself on

Saturday Live. You've got to give her credit for that. Speaking of did you see the Saturday Night Live sketch? Was it this weekend or last weekend? Disease I'm sorry. I think we might have already talked. We did talk about that, yeah, which was a very affectionate yeah. Ready, yeah, But that that is where I think this backlash is coming from, Like it is a travesty if a movie like Moonlight doesn't win, or if a movie like Hidden Figures, which is about you know, dispelling our divisions and for

the for a common good. Granted, Land has always been I'm totally previewing my column next week. Laoland has always been this effervescent thing. It's not important capital I like in that way. Um, And you know, someone said something like, if it wins, it's like while the world burned, Hollywood was singing and dance come on. That often happened where you turn to like a bit of escapism and you know, unsure times. But like, I don't know, I just hate it.

Every year something has to be compounded like this, and I just think it's people caring about the oscars too much. Well, it's also interesting people bring their own baggage to it. I don't know if if we're allowed to get into spoilers here, but the movie has been out for a while, but so many people I talked to when you asked them about the ending. They read so much into certain things like who she ends up with, like they have

a whole backstory. Me you can, I just say. I mean, if anyone hasn't seen La La Land, first of all, I'm shocked you're listening to this. Secondly, you know, she winds up with Tom Evert Scott, and there's some people who are like, she's trapped in a loveless marriage and you can see she's looking to get out and he's a bad guy. And I'm like, you don't cast Tom Everett Scott in a quick role like that to make

people think he's a bad guy. Like this is you know, this is These are people who I learned long ago that because the relationship doesn't work out, it doesn't mean it's a failure. You know, I've I've felt from the beginning. I asked, I asked Damien and Emma this question at tell you right, And I was like, I think some people see this as a as a downer and and my view is these people came into each other's lives exactly when they needed to, got each other that next

step in their life, and exited stage left. It's melancholy, but it's not sad. It's beautiful. Yeah that way. I mean, it's like I don't know and yeah, and I feel like she looks like she's very happy in her marriage with her child, and we don't know what's going on, what's going on, very happy for each other exactly, that's what's happening, and like it is. It is shocking to me how some people are just like they've created this whole other scenario where she's sold out for stardom and

now she's trapped in a loveless marriage. And I'm like, please go to therapy. To your point about baggage, they're bringing something into that. Well, this week we've got Barry Jenkins. Wonderful Barry Jenkins. I have not talked to this man all year, really, not even in passing on Twitter. You've talked to on Twitter. That's it. And uh, you know, partly by design, because I just I wanted the right moment, and it feels like the right moment. He's so wonderful.

I'll tell you a funny thing that happened on the Red Carpet. Um I met Jaden and Alex, the two young boys who play Um Kevin and Shyrone in the first part of Moonlight, and I asked Alex Hibbert. I was like, so you know, based on this movie, you're going to grow up to look like Trevante Rhodes. How do you feel about that? And he said, that's great, man, because I'm getting all the girls totally. He's right at the gym. Here's a funny story about Trevante. Actually at

the Independent Spirit brunch. Uh, I went to the bathroom and he was washing his hands and I was like, hey man, great work in the movie. He's like, thanks man. He goes out. He's as he's leaving, I go Predator. He goes Predator. You're gonna see baby Shane Black. Yes, So can I follow that up with one more Trevante story? Right after that, he came to the bath to tea party, and I think our column had come out that week where we had said, like, people, you should consider who

haven't you know been in the Oscar conversation? And I had, you know, prefaced it by saying, of course my Herschelali is going to win, but you should not overlook Trevante Rhodes. So I saw him and I was going to introduce myself to him, and he walks up to me and says, I know who you are, like completely left the ability to speak. I was like, you know who I am? And amazing and he's cool. He's the best, the whole this whole crew is cool. Anyway. I have a really

good chat with Barry. So right after this, who is your shal home on time? So notmember trying to you know what all songs. At some point you got to decide for yourself who you don't. Can't let nobody make that decision. H you are? Tell him why the other boys keep your gass all the time? Who's found? I've seen the need for the last time I saw you only I'm the only How about no? No, no to whom? Huh to you? Who is your I ain't seeing you in like a decade. It's not what I expect? What

is your respect? Welcome back everyone, I'm here with the writer director of Moonlight, Barry Jenkins. Barry, thanks for doing the show man, Thanks for having me. As I was saying before, r Hannah, I've kind of kept my distance a bit this year out of reverence because you guys have been hit with a lot of press on this movie, like it's it's been fantastic to see, but I just didn't want to get lost in the clutter. Yeah. Yeah, it's been Uh, it's been a lot, you know, which

which is great. You know that. I think there's there's no way the voice of this film would have carried us far um as it did without you know, critics and the press and things like that. But it's interesting though, when when the Spirit Award nominations came out, When any nominations come out, I always realized I'm like the only director who's on Twitter. Um, So, so it does take an effort to maintain a distance because you're pretty active

on Twitter. I guess we both are. Well. Now we've we've come together of our shared love of Deep Water Horizon on Twitter, We've talked about fantastic film, and uh, now we finally can talk about Moonlight. We're sitting across from each other for the first time this year. So again, thank you for coming up. Um. I want to start by talking about to tell you right experience, because it's obviously very special to you, and I'm sure you've talked about this a lot this year, but you know you've

I've been going for seven or eight years. I know you're very well. You're always up there presenting the films and you've been programming there for a number of years, so this year must have been incredibly special to premiere the movie there. So tell me about that experience. Yeah, it was kind of like an out of body experience, you know, until we actually got there, it didn't seem like, UM like it was true. You know, I've been there

since two thousand two. You know, it's a long time, uh to go, and you kind of get set and with the festival feels like what the festival is gonna

be like? And and this year was was quite different because, as you said, I had a piece of work UM, and I think to to introduce the movie to the world UM in such a safe space to be really honest, you know, I think there were so many people there who were rooting for the film, you know, just people who have worked with UM that it was it was it was undoubtedly the best way UM to do it, and I think it kind of kind of teat everything

up for the rest of the year. Yeah, definitely. I saw it at the second screening the afternoon after the premiere at the Galaxy. Yeah, that that was my favorite screening I've and tell you I have to be honest with you. Peter Seller set you up to fail. I know, I know. I was the theater director. It gave the most glowing, uh just preview of this film just right before setting it up, and I was mortified. I was like, this movie is not going to live up to what

this guy just said. And it did. Let me lay that out there immediately. It did. But man, I was worried, I have to say, but it was. It was. It's a staggering piece of work from you. And I just want to start by buttering you up by saying, yes that it delivered on everything he said. And uh, that caught me by surprise. It was just such a breathless yeah, yeah, it was. You know. After that, it's like I was, you know, because you know it's, um it's a very

intimate piece. It's a very very small piece in a in a certain way. UM. But I think what happens is the smallness of it, the specificity of it kind of takes you by surprise and and and being small and by which I should say specific could be comes this this larger thing for people, I believe, and I like for it to be like a sneak attack. You know, my favorite viewer as someone who walks in knowing nothing.

So if someone tells you before you sit down to watch a movie, this movie is going to move mountains, you know you're like, no, it's not. You know you already go into a believing that it's not. But um, but you know people, uh, you know when the lights go down that they see the work for what it is. And so yeah, when when when he said it, I was standing off to the I think I came right on and I said immediately, now once you push off those things like like like out of sight, out of mind.

But even Peter, you know, it came from a place of love. I think he had been moved by the movie as well. So, um, so I was fine with it. But yeah, I had the same thought in my head. The fact that the film was born there as well as interesting with the fact you know this has been written about that you spoke with the plan B folks Jeremy Kleiner and Dy Gardner after a screening of Twelve

Years of Slave, Brett Pitt got the ball rolling. Uh, it's interesting that it's an environment like that where movies like that can start percolating because of the atmosphere there. I think it's such a casual atmosphere for filmmakers too. Uh. And and is that something that you've kind of found in your time as a filmmaker programming there for years, seeing that it's it's a space where that can happen. Yeah,

I think absolutely. I think, Um, it's not to say that that everyone there's ultra friendly, but I think the environment kind of engenders, uh, these interactions, these actual like personal person or person interactions. You know. For example, I've introduced I think two of Alexander's movies. Um, I tell you right. And so when when Moonlight came out, he went to the Arc Light and he saw it with an audience, and then he got my email and he

wrote me an email. You know, he's like, hey, I remember you as the guy who introduced these films, you know, and he had very very just amazing things to say. So I think it is um an environment where that's possible and what happens quite often. Um. And yet it's never I mean for me at least as ever fills a course like I didn't come from from Europe with the script going oh my god, I'm gonna I gotta

meet Plan B and tell them about Moon. Like I learned, I was going to introduce that film eight hours before because nobody knew that it was going to be there except for the heads of the festival. Um. But then, because you're in this place and you know, I don't want to go on and on about the beauty of tell you right, but I think these conversations they just happened, UM, and you're right. Three years later, every premiered the movie

UM at the same festival, which is shocking. And then that I remember standing in line after that screening and you guys came out after the Q and A and the whole crowd is person to it. Plus and now now that is something that that I have to I have to honestly say, uh, and this is not just me trying to be modest, but I've never seen that happen you need at that festival ever ever, I've never

seen that happen. I just haven't seen that before. And that was that was I think, probably as far as tell you Rod goes, the moment where I realized, Wow, something different is happening. But HI mean something different than my expectations. I thought the film would be you know, relatively well well well received that. Um, but I'm inside the movie and I had no context of what it

would mean to people outside. And you're right when we came out of the galaxy, I think it was the patron's line and I was like, this is yeah, it was, Yeah, it was amazing. Uh, tell me about just you know, in your years of programming shorts there, you know, three of the shorts that are not nominated this year for an Oscar you programmed there this year. Uh, just out of curiosity. I think filmmakers maybe listen to this. You are a person who has seen your share of short films.

I'm sure it seems like it might be a kind of a saturated uh market for lack of a better word. Uh, what does it take to stand out when you're a short, when you're a filmmaker making a short film trying to pop like that? Yeah, I think it's all about personal vision, voice, especially at the short, at the short shorter links, you know, I think, um, you really have to stand out. Often say it's probably more difficult to make an amazing short film than it is to make, um an amazing feature,

because everything kind of has to be hitting. You know, I tell you right, we don't program very many shorts, you know, I think we maybe screen I don't know, fifteen to sixteen shorts total, you know, or you know, across the whole program, whereas someplace like like Sundance, you know, they can show like a hundred and fifty shorts. Um uh. And it's all amazing work. So for us, it's about the personal voice. You know, things have got to stand out.

You know. Last year there was a film called Everything Will Be Okay, which was nominated in a Short Short Narrative Amazing film. Amazing film. Um it didn't win the Oscar, but amazing film. It's like forty minutes, you know, which is really difficult to program for a short film. But the voice of it was just so strong and so powerful. Um And I think with a short film usually it's it's gotta be like personal vision. It's the very first thing,

um I look for. And I think that three films this year that you note it are nominated in a short doc. They're all very voice heavy films, especially four point one Miles, which is probably my favorite of all the shorts that I programmed this year. Yeah, definitely check that out everyone. If you get a chance, I'm gonna get in the moonlight in just a second. I want to go back in time a bit when you were assisting for Darnell Martin Darnell directed Cadillac Records. Uh, female director.

I should point out, just because the name might throw you off, I have people all the time. All you work for Darnell. I love him. He's amazing. And I'm like, no, you don't know Darnielle Well, I want to know what you learned from Darnell. You note, So I was Darnell's assistant from the earliest pre production all the way through post production, and her biggest thing was about was about work and dedication to the craft UM and working with actors.

I should say, you know, Darnell had me involved in everything. I would be at all the rehearsals. You know. She liked to get to set like two hours before call time and she would walk the set by herself, and I was there for all those things. Um. It is really about taking responsibility um for the craft of the piece UM and really trying to build a genuine relationship with the actors. You know, those were the two two

biggest things. You know, she was amazing, and I learned a lot in that year and a half assisting here, and you came out of that. You you did some uh you made Medicine for Melancholy, and then you worked in the short film space some more. And we were talking just before. There's a film you made called Remigration that I just saw yesterday. Everybody checked this out. It's

on YouTube. It's something you made with PBS and uh I t vs where they were asking filmmakers kind of envision and attainable future, like what's something that could happen, and you put into it your ideas of gentrification. And it's essentially this vision of a city where the blue collar working classes left because they can't afford to live there anymore. Now they're kind of being enticed to come back because who's gonna work basically is what it boiled

down to. Great film, and I just want to pitch to you that's something you've heard for apparently that's a feature man, that's a feature film. I mean, maybe you know you know. The thing The thing about that was, you know a lot of the shorts I did between Medicine and Moonlight, they weren't because I had an idea

for a short film. It was like an opportunity kind of presented itself, just like with I TV S. They hit me up and they had sort of like, uh, like a thesis statement, which was it had to be about the not too distant future and it had to be hopeful or uplifting um. And so when then the when in that box, I kind of came up with the concept for remigration, which to me was an extension or an extrapolation of what the characters was doing with

the Medicine for melancholic um. I'm glad you mentioned because

nobody ever talks about that short. You know, I got to work with Rick you and Russell hornsby Paula Mendoza, you know, you know in in in Medicine you know why, and Tracy didn't have a lot of acting acting experience, where these guys were all season trained actors, and it was, you know, it was a beautiful reminder of what's possible when you know, you take these things in the world, um, that you are concerned, concerned about and you try to

blend them um with the art um. So I'm glad that you brought that up, because I'm you know, I was really happy the way that turned out before this film. Actually, that was the last time James and I worked together. Oh yeah, really it's yeah. I mean, it's just the way it tackles socio political ideas, and you know, I'm kind of sort of reminded of something like her Spike Jones film, which is like an attainable future as well. And I don't know, I'm just saying, I'm not your agent,

but uh, i'd watch a future of that. Let's talk about Moonlight. First of all, Terrell mccraney's peace. Thank you for helping me up with that. It's really elegant, uh Peace, And Uh, what's immediately striking. First of all, the language, both dialogue and his action is it's really striking, and I feel like it should be published. Do you think there's a possibility that it will be published? Uh, that's that's a Terrell. I think he wrote it when he he was a very young man. I think he'd maybe

wanna take it. It makes some adjustments, Um, but that's Terrell. I I can't say. Yeah. I mean, I can understand that it definitely captures him in a different voice than than what he's grown into. But I think that's what's so vital about it? And I think that the fact that it it it brought moonlight to life is is very noteworthy. So Terrell, if you're listening, I think other people would love to read that. But the most notable change you made when you were adapting this story was

struct shortly. Obviously, the Terrelle piece was forty five pages, but it blended the stories of Little Chiron and Black. So you kept kind of going back and forth, and you took those and made them. You went linear, and you kind of told each story completely before moving on to the next one. What was your thought there? Why did you think that was important? You know, I kind of when I first read it, I tried to read it as an audience member. You know, it's someone sitting

in the cinema, you know, watching this story unfold. Um And I felt like it was too intellectual to really follow the journey of you know, the boy into the team, into the man. And and I thought whatever the piece was saying about the world, I was going to be best digested by the audience, you know, over the course of a linear journey with the character, rather than seeing

time fold back back on itself. Um. And And also to you know, I right away thought of the concept of seeing the sky you know as different people, you know, literally how the world has manifested himself into a sports whan to manifest himself into a different uh person. And I thought that if you could really spend time with one version and then jump and spend time with the next version, you'll you'll see more of the change, you know, you'll get more of the read of how society has

has affected this person um. And so yeah, it just and it was honestly the breakthrough that that where I was like, Okay, now I can take take take all the ship with this piece. Yeah. You know, something else it really does is, uh, myrchel allis character it the way you've structured it. When he's no longer there after the first piece of the triptych, it makes you miss him.

And you see how the presence of this sort of father figure, the sort of role model in a certain way, you know, if it's not constantly readjusting the way it's being sort of ingested by our main character, it kind of starts to go off the rails of it. Yeah, uh, I want to talk about your DP, James Laxton. We were mentioning earlier, and first of all, like going back

to film school, like, what interested you guys photographically? Uh, you know, whether photographs are certain cinematographers like because certainly with Medicine for Melancholia, which was more overt in its kind of visual stylings, and then definitely here too, you have a you have a distinctive visual signature going on. So I'm just curious what inspired you guys at the beginning. Yeah, we were really big and too Christopher Doyle and uh and I'd say Darius Kanji. Those were like the two

biggest ones, uh for us and Christopher Doyle. It was just because you know, as I've said about my approach directing, you know, I just liked the idea that there was more than one way to tell the story, there was more than one way to photograph an image. Um, and I just love the way that that collaboration between One Car Y and Christopher Doyle, the way it manifested itself as like a very unique voice picture to picture. And we just watched a lot of One Car Hawaii and

a lot of Darius Kanji. And we also like the guy who was shooting Flynn Ramsey at the time, I think his name was Alwan Alan Couch. Yeah, and we watched a lot of his stuff too, because I think he think he may have also shot monsl and Wedding, which we were obsessed with at the time. And it's funny because Damien also loves mons and Wedding. But we were in the directors round table. It was basically me and Damien cornering uh Me and Nyera to talk about

Monson Wedding. It was amazing. Um. But you know, we just at the film school that we went to, there are a lot of really great filmmakers there at the time. You know, this guy westball Um was there at the same time that we weren't, and he was watching like a lot of Spielberg and things like that, James Cameron and things like that, and there's that's there. That's a certain way of approaching the visual voice of a piece.

But then there was just so much of the world outside that, and James and I we were just these two guys who we would just go off and nerd out, watching, you know, as much off the beaten path as we possibly could. And eventually when we started making short films as this film, I have penned to my Twitter profile. It was the first short that we made at film school, called my josephing Um. It just all those influences manifested themselves.

Like I said, Medicine had a more overt kind of thing with the saturation of the color, pulling the colors down, bringing them up in other areas. Uh. And Moonlight has you know, certainly with how you handled handled the color with the color side of things has something going on as well, but it's not as overt. Like I said, did you ever think about doing something as bold is what you did in Medicine for Melancholi with a look?

No we we I mean to us that the boldness was going to be allowing Moonlight to be as sat to rate it um, as picturesque, I would say, as beautiful an image as it is. Because you know, when you if I tell you on making the social realist drama, you know, you assume you know a very naturalistic you know, dispatching a camera, you know these sort of like not necessarily flat, but you know, a more gray, great toned film,

something like the Dardin Brothers um Uh. Whereas you know, we thought we would lean into the beauty of Miami's interesting with with with medicine though, because you know, a

lot of these things they don't happen by happenstance. You know what I love about medicine is people always make the commentary of how desaturated it is, But if you watch the raw footage, it's super saturated, like hyper saturated, because we knew when we pulled out the color we wanted to keep the lushness of the skin tones um, and so all the footage is very very very rid and very very orange um at the image capture stage, and then we worked our way back, uh from that.

So you know, we try to you know, I say this about moon light, but I think it also applies to medicine. The consciousness of the character kind of dictates um the tone, the visual tone of the piece. And Charonne is surrounded by beauty, and I think inside there was this inner sort of torment, you know, about the beauty he surrounded by and yet how tough his life is, and so those things make their way into the imagery. But to go down to like because that would have been,

you know about medicine is desaturated. We had to hyper saturate this man, it would have been and then we are talking abou Christopher Doyle Workar, you're getting there. You'll probably get there at some point with that kind of a look. I mean, uh, the environment is something I want to talk about. Medicine. It's very uh informed by its environment San Francisco, the characters dealing with the various socio political elements, and the gentrification is a big topic

there as well. And then uh with Moonlight Miami Liberty s the basically the environments very much speak to character in these films. Uh, how important is that for you? Is that something more specifically? Is that Is that something that comes naturally to you when you're writing, or is it something that maybe through the process of writing you come to a stage where it's like, Okay, now I want to implement these ideas of how environment is impacting

this story. No, no, I think it comes part and parcel with my approach to the work up to this point, especially with those two films. Um, you know, they're both very very rooted in place, and you know you've read Sells piece even even that at rell stage of it, you know, the environment was was a very large aspect. I mean, that's kind of cliche to say, you but the environment was a character. You know. Uh. Some element of it has to do with the way we're making

these films. You know, these are not robust budgets. You know. It's it would be more expensive for me to try to subdue the environment than to make the environment active element um of the film. Uh. And in this case, you know, it will is uh intellectually dramatically um a point of reference to have the environment be an active element of the tone in the atmosphere of a movie.

For example, you know, we could have gone to New Orleans or Atlanta to make this film because Florida doesn't have any tax incentives, and because of the budget of this film, you know, we really could have used those tax and centives. But the offset to me, you know, the the environment, as you say, if Miami was so crucial to me to the inner life of the characters, um, that it was worth taking the hit, you know, and not moving to a different locale to set the film. Yeah.

And esthetically it provides so much, I mean beyond just thematically how it appects you know, as as a filmmaker, you often imagining things. You know, you imagine how a location was gonna look, you know, how how the light is going to be whereas in this case, because I've grown up in this place, you know, I can imagine it. But it's exactly as I imagined it. When I get to set. You know, when I point the camera in

that direction, I'm seeing exactly what I saw. Um and ahead, you know, the projects is still pastel, you know, and when we've turned that camera on, it's gonna be gorgeous pastel colors surrounding this and some some scenes. This horrific on the counter between these characters. Uh. Regarding the Oscars, congratulations Louis has I think eight nominations. It's and a's as is wild. This is this is me James Adala joy Natt went to film school together and we are

all Academy Award nominees. Like it's fun. I'm I'm pretty chill about the stuff, but I did. I teared up, man, because it's like, um, you know, not that it was a dream of mine, but you know, you're in film school and you you know, you guys sitting around you watch the Oscars, and now they're gonna be people at my film school watching the Oscars, and they're gonna see us, you know, sitting in the auditorium. It's it's unbelievable. Yeah, definitely.

That's part of the reason I'm always pulling for Jeff Nichols. We went to film school again. Yeah, amazing guy. But uh, you know, regarding that you've made history and that this is the first film from a black writer director that's nominated for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Screenplay, Uh, what I want to know is, uh, what's like the overriding

emotion for you. Is it is it pride that you're the guy that that broke this ceiling, that this is the film that did this or is there more of a sense of longing that I don't have to bring that up as a statistic that uh it's it's yeah, it's better sweet. I mean, uh, there's there's so many different angles on it, you know. One, you know, I'm getting messages from people back home in Miami now and

I'm not even talking Florida State, my film school. People back home living in the world you see depicted in this film. Um, and I think when you watch this movie, you don't assume that Shyrone is going to grow up and be nominated, you know, for for for two Academy Awards or eight Academy Awards for the film. UM. And I think people look at me and they see that happen in their idea of what they are capable of is shifting, you know. Um. I think that's that's amazing.

You know what's possible, um, is shifting. Uh. And it's a It's a beautiful thing. Um. But of course it's bitter sweet because you know, it's seventeen. Um. There should be no room for first anymore. And I think if someone you know, like Spike you know, who wrote and directed Malcolm X, which is an amazing film, um, or do the Right Thing or so many, so many other pieces of his work. Um. And so it's bitter sweet that there are any first uh for me or anyone

else to accomplish. UM. Yeah, I don't, I don't. It's where you even talking about it. Man. It's such a mixed thing. You know. I do a lot of Q and A S and I can give very sustinct dances. But that's one of the ones that you know, as this is happening, you know, I'm still trying to reconcile you know, what it means and how I feel about it. Yeah, definitely, And then you know, I just it's so far over due milestone. But congrats on being the one to hit

that mark. You thank you, bro, and and you know, and to and to fold it all the way back. You know. You mentioned eight nominations, you know, and I'm glad they're spread as wide across the piece as they are. You know. I think you remove any one element um of this puzzle in the film, it's not the same. And so even though it's a milestone that theoretically, you know, I am, I've accomplished behind the recipient of I think those eight nominations show that the village that created more

white has has has achieved that milestone definitely. And then I hate to close out by leaning in on politics, but we're entering Black History Month, and I have to ask if you if you saw President Trump's comments about Black History Month. I did not. You did not did not very hand fist. I saw I saw one clip on Twitter about Frederick Douglas, and I thought it was a joke. I thought I thought someone had like dubbed. I did not think it was real. That was real.

I did not think it was real. What does that make you think? When the leader of the free world is is that that's his capacity for empathizing and understanding what this means. Heavy question to close with him, so sorry, thankfully this is his radio because he could see my face when he started to ask the question. UM, I mean, look,

these are I think we're all you know. I just watched I Am Not Your Negro again uh the other day, and I think it's amazing how many things Mr Baldwin says in that piece that are relevant to the present moment that we're currently living in. UM. And rather than than giving an opinion on the current president, UM, it just reminds me like a movie that's pens at the

top of my Twitter profile. I've just got to keep making work UM that addresses and reflects the world that we live in, in the country, UM, that we want to continue to live in. Definitely. Well, I think you'll have plenty of doors open to you now, thankfully. What do you want to do? Remigration to electric bugal, what do you want to do those? Seriously? Like do you want to uh? Because you're in a variety of things.

I mean I was reading about the thing that you wrote like a die hard kind of thing, like on Diehard on a bridge is what you called it, But like, what what kind of movies are interested in making going forward? You know, I'm I'm a I'm a person who just loves cinema. You know, for example, you know my love of Deep Water Horizon. I would love to make that film.

As as evidence how much I tweet about it. Um that there are many different things, UM that that I'm curious about that I have an appetite for UM And I think that the biggest blessing of this experience has been a lot of those things are open to me now. Um. It always starts with the character. Though, always starts with

the character, and as you said, with the place. I think with those two elements, there's some moments where I feel like I can make anything, as evidenced by the two pieces I'm working on now, which are totally different, you know, basically a biopic about a female boxer from Flint, Michigan, you know, and Colson white Heads The Underground Railroad. You know, it could be more different, um, And yet I think they both feature amazing characters rooted to place. Yeah. Man, well,

good luck of both of those. Good luck going forward, and congrats again and thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much, Bron Thanks for listening everyone. Remember to subscribe and check back next week when I'll be talking to Arrival. The director Danie Villain, new you've been listening to Playback at the right boom.