Ep19 - Casey Affleck / "Manchester by the Sea"

are so loud, such loud nuisances. Really I like them. I swear they're all gonna be like is that shade? I don't know with them now. If they don't listen to this, Justin listens to it. Justin Krol was happy for his shout out. Actually, I told him at the shout out that's probably why he listened that little sit. He made an appointment. They're talking about me. That's justin crawl limitation. It was a great justic cREL limitation where

I had the Golden Globes this weekend. Oh tired, Yeah, I had an eleven hour day on Saturday with you know, I hate to say, like so many parties, but so many parties. Yeah, I skipped a lot of you know. The only thing I really like to go to is the Bath to Tea party, which was fun people though. Yeah, and then I skipped over to the Laula Land party for a little bit. And then I've closed out the day with the Visual Effects bake Off, which was a four hour event. Is that the first time you've been

in and of itself? Yeah, first time make presentations in cases. I was excited to go, but at the end of that day, I was just like fading so hard. But it's a very interesting event, you know. They make Basically, they have a timed spot where they come up one of the one of the people come up and they talk about the effects, and only one guy went over his time and had to be interrupted. That was the Fantastic Beasts Christian Man's uh went over his allotted time.

And then they show a reel and then the entire group gets up there and answers a couple of questions for like ten minutes. What is the allotted time for them to speak overall? I think the first like the opening bit seems like it's like five minutes, maybe ten, And then the Q and A afterwards feels like it's about ten minutes. And how many movies it's a long night. It is a long night. Is that how they do make up as well? I think they they used to

do sound effects. Actually, I would love to have bend one of those back in the day. And they're open to the public. They're open to the public. You can just show up. That is so cool. I mean I won't, but it's really cool they hear about for the geeks in us. It's fun and and uh, it matters if you have a really good reel, because the best real

I thought by far was Deepwater Rising. Oh that's great, so elegantly put together, Like a lot of these because they're showing different scenes, it's like stop and start, really jagged editing. The only movie that seemed to think, hey, let's just cut the black for a second before each scene was Cubo, which, by the way, I think is a dark horse for this because that it made it

this far as kind of interesting as it is. Don't you think this is how we should pick the movies to Like, somebody gets up and says, here's my case for nocturnal animals. That would be Aaron Taylor Johnson sits on a toilet, speaking of speaking of, let's talk about the Globes kicking off with a big shocker, and then in the bath denominated him as well, you know, hey, the thing is, I can't criticize the choice. I think Aaron Taylor Johnson is the best he's ever given. He's

great in the movie. I mentioned the toilet scene because somebody was complaining on Twitter, that's that that that, that's all anyone talks about, which I actually haven't seen many people talking about. I think of the seventeen minutes sequence on the road where he terrorizes Yeah, and he's kind of unrecognizable too that in a certain way, like the way his hair is done, and there's justin welcome by right now. He probably knows we're talking about him. He's

got that sensor. I think he's a legit possibility. At this point, we're going to go back to the seventies to find a Golden Globe winner in that category that didn't get nominated by the Really, oh, I didn't know that. Well, I don't think anyone was more surprised than he was. And by the way he came backstage, um, because I

spent my Golden Globes day. Um backstage and the cutest thing ever while he was you know, they cut the sound to the show while the winners are backstage talking, and he made them turn the sound back on so he could see Ryan Gosling's acceptance speech. Yeah, it was the cutest thing seeing Ryan Gosling's sexist except wait, no, are you serious? That's what everyone's saying? Who's everyone? I have not heard this. I thought it was the entire internet next to Meryl Streep. I thought it was the

best speech of the night. Yeah, I thought it was great to look, we're in this age where we talked about Steve Martin last week and Ryan Gosling caught ship this this time. I literally have not seen or heard any of this. Just avoid it. Okay, that's probably a good idea. I saw some piece about regarding Meryl streep speech where she was turning the handicapped gentleman she was talking about into a victim, and I was like, really, we are think piecing ourselves to the victim of bullying.

Maybe just yeah, I don't know how to explain it. Yeah, this is this is why I don't read. This is why I sit at home and watch movies. Golden Globes was a sweep for a La La Land, which a lot of people kind of thought that was gonna happen. I they don't do that, So I thought, you know, a couple of other shots. I thought our big surprise would come in like Best Actor, like maybe Ryan Reynolds would sneak in, maybe Hugh Grant, or maybe they'd give songs. I was thinking Hugh Grant was gonna win. I was

thinking Amy Adams was gonna win. It's about who pair was as surprised though, forbe Now get the Oscar nomination. I think she's in there, but that is a tight six horse race, like as tight as it can be. And you know, all along, I mean all obviously picked up votes with the speaks she's in. And you know, I'm the one who's been saying all along that I

don't think she's in Now I think she is. Who gets pushed out here, I mean, I mean the guests my you know, Emistone and Alleportman are safe, and then my guess is Amy Adams is in Meryl Streep. So then you're pushing out a net bending. I've never has not been doing anything from the start. I I didn't see her making the cut from the start. Come on, yeah, no, we've had this discussion. Yeah, you are a parent now

and your memory is fading. But I have always thought it was too subtle a performance to I don't think it's that's subtle. I think it's pretty lively. Actually, also think it's a supporting performance. Well that's the thing. Like at the start, I asked them like, would you push that for supporting and they were like no, maybe they should have. I mean, look, I'm still holding out hope

to Roger pi Hanson gets in. I know that that could be a pipe dream at this this is this is the other thing, Like all these awards, these Guild Awards and the Golden Globes have happened in a different timeline. Uh, right now is when Academy voters have ballots in hands. So Figures is a story right now. It beats Star Wars at the box office blah blah blah. So yeah, and it came on strong with the PGA, got a nomination.

As we both think it's picture. I don't think anyone in the right mind thinks that Deadpool is going to get the Best Picture. Oscar Nomination's the thing about Deadpool, I have no problem with it getting a PGA nomination, said, well, someone said only someone said to me today, it took ten years to make and it was at six million dollar movie that made seven and a million dollars. I'm like, most movies take a decade to make. You don't get a mid budget like fifty million dollars, So that's kind

of a weird. I had no problem with it gay nominated the Globes. My problem with a gay nominated for p g A is that there were clearly better movies that could have made the cut. There were better superhero movies, both Captain American Civil War and Doctor Strange. Dead Pool. Right now, I just want to know what I'm missing? What do you mean? What you're that one is asking me to confirm my age? Oh goodness, I mean is that one? Holy crap? Can I watch a dead Pole

trailer on YouTube? Please? I'm a frank two years. Let's watch this trailer together. Watching the Deadpool trailer everyone, you know, someone made an excellent point about how minus the superhero stuff, it's total oscar bait. He's got cancer, it's a love story. I mean, look, this is a fun movie. It's an irreverent movie. If it deserves any awards it deserves I think marketing awards because they catch the marketing. Uh you know, but you know, he quips, he curses. It's an R rated,

irreverent comedy. Is this what one? You know? What makes for really good radio is watching and I think this is hilarious. Leave me all alone here with less angry Rosey o'donnald All right, that's a funny line. So w G A nomination? OKAYL see, I mean not CLC, Salt and Peppa I'm all about so yeahmination wonderful marketing. Look, I'm happy for Robo I felt. I'm happy for everybody involved with the movie. I just think it's a little much. We're going we got an ACE nomination, but w G

A nomination a PGA nomination. See, the ACE nomination is the one that makes the most sense. It makes the most sense. I think it's a very well edited movie. But you know, p g A and I fought Sully might get in there. Frank Marshall, that talk about a movie that did well, like on a low budget and you know for what it is, But that didn't happen. And that movie seems to be dead are people do they genuinely love it or do they love the narrative of like it took you know, so long to get made?

And I guess everyone I don't want to beat up on it, like seems like I don't know, I'm just annoyed. I did that when I saw this movie in February. I didn't expect to be engaging with it eleven months later in the awards season. I guess That's where I'm at. So it's happy for the Globe's nomination because I was happy they put a comedy in the comedy category, and you know, and Ryan Reynolds is great. Um, but yeah, the p g A is like, Okay, well there we are.

I think that No. I think the nine that we're not Deadpool. I think those are the movies that are contending for Best Picture we might get. You know, there's passion votes out there for movies like Nocturnal Animals, which was a bath to nominee. Actually nine nominations did really well. Passion votes are out there for Silence and for loving

that's possible you need three hundred people. But if Fox wanted to, they could block vote that ship and just get like everybody vote for Deadpool and it could happen. It could get anything could happen. Takes like three people witness Aaron Taylor Johnson and so what else this week? Uh? You know what I was thinking about on the way over here. This is random. Um, I was listening to a Prince c D. I would like them to perform Purple Rain on the show and not as part of

the mmmorium. I just think it would be an awesome moment, just unto itself. Why on the Oscars though, well it wasn't Oscar any time past way and he in as an Oscar winning song, and yeah, I just think that would be an awesome moment. Depending on who you got to do it. Maybe you could get like a collective of people like we are the world doing Purple Rain. Maybe it just in Tnimberlake. He would crush it. I think Grammy's are coming up to why not do it?

They're we'll do it. They're fine. But I just think as a as a little moment on the Oscars, I was thinking, like, what can they do to this show to spice it up? Because it's it's not an interesting year for movies in my opinion, and like, what are they going to do on the show to really liven up? I am excited about Jimmy Kimmel hosting um as I said I was. I was backstage, so I couldn't read the temperature of the room. Uh. How did Jimmy Fallon do as Globes host? I mean that's the other thing there.

Opening number, it was just a Lala Land number, Like that's all I could do was get everybody when involved in TV and other movies, and let's do a Lala Land number. Like you know. It was. It was a neat little thing and it kind of set the tone

like obviously La La Land is a favorite tonight. But I thought Fallon was as safe as you expected him to be, Like even his one trump joke was like he got he got in and out of it really fast too, Like I was like, what I Jimmy Jimmy Kimmel though, you know, we'll see he's obviously a little more biting. Yeah, yeah, I know, he's a great host.

I'm I'm really looking forward to it. And when this runs, by the way, or when this airs, d g A will have already Oh really do the announce tomorrow Thursday morning. Oh well, let's come back on Thursday morning, and you got any predictions. I'm thinking Deneva Leneuv will get in there. I think you're probably right. I mean, okay, So Barry Jenkins, by the way, I did a Q and A with Barry Jenkins last night. Maybe this is common knowledge. Um Janelle Monet, you know, she kind of came to his

attention because she auditioned for Star Trek. About that, So did she audition for a horror? I'm not sure that was what I assumed, which might be wrong of me, but maybe it's for one of the Star Trek sequels because it sounded like it was not that long ago. And that's how she sort of got on Barry's radar. Someone recommended to her, and you know, and she has a trained actress something else I didn't realize. She attended,

you know, dramatic Academy. Like it makes you feel a little bit better about the fact she's so damn good in these two movies, and you feel like she just came out of nowhere to be an amazing actress. She's she's awesome, Like she's gonna be a star. I think in this realm just listening to her talk and her mouth is amazing. Yeah, harries In, I think Denise In actually if someone falls out, I love him, But I feel like Kenny Lonergan could fall out just because he's safe.

He's the Tom McCarthy, you know. Quietly, I think he's considered more for his writing skills than as a director, but I certainly think he deserves to be in there. Obviously, Damian's in there. So who's your fifth who is my Oh? Mel Gibson, Oh yeah, Mel Gibson. Okay, um. Do you think Ted Melphye has a chance for Heading Figures? Maybe

such a broad group is a big group. So these movies like Hidden Figures that everyone loves and wants to be the Best Picture nominee can land that kind of a nomination some Tom Surprisingly, I'm thinking of when Morton Tildom for Orimentation Games kept getting, you know, nominations. People didn't know who he was, but they loved that movie so much, And people actually do know who Ted Melfi is.

There's always somebody who doesn't get the Oscar nomination who gets d G because the Oscars it's like third fifty members of the director's branch, which is why I think Martin Scorsese is still alive there. I think so too. Oh you wait, do you know think Scorsese gets the d g A. No, wow, I don't think they saw it. I kind of think it doesn't matter if they saw. I don't know. And then there's that this is a very specific movie. That's why it works more for a

smaller branch, like the director's branch of the Academy. You know, the Oscars always recognized someone who generally doesn't get recognized along the way, like Lenny Abramson for Room. I feel like um Bennett Miller the you'r a Fox Catcher didn't have a lot of momentum going into because you know, directors really sort of picked on the outskirts. So you know, I've got my Maybe that's Denny this year, or maybe

it's Matt Ross for Captain Fantastic. So let me be clear that it does not get d g A but gets an OSCAR nomination. Yes, okay, Matt Ross. Mmm, I don't think so. I'm saying I know you love and I love the movie, but I would be very surprised by that. Yeah, the knee would make more sense in general for like the smaller group to go for him. But then I think about Arrival and how it will appeal to all the younger members of these guilds. And that's why I think it's going to continue to do

really well in the guilds. And I'm still like, I don't know about it for the Best Picture nomination. I don't know about it for Amy. Frankly, I think Amy's pretty secure. But because we're pushing out, you're pushing out a net that makes the most sense at this point. But as soon as you say, oh, this this is the five that makes sense, something happens, of course, And this has been, you know, a more unpredictable year than most. I think we had a Twitter question actually asking about

how the bodies have changed, you know with these new members. Yeah, well that's the unknowable. Yeah, there's like six members I used to, you know, really have a good predictor for the SAG Awards, And in the last couple of years since SAG and after merged, I I don't know what's gonna happen. Yeah, I mean, you have six hundred new members, most of them are international. How how are their tastes

going to affect these various branches. I think Steve Pond did like a little breakdown of how many new members are in each branch, and that's where it starts to, you know, within the branches is where it starts to kind of trickle down. I'm not fine. I'm finding a lot of Portuguese reactions to Deadpools PGA nominations in my Twitter feed. Stop angering the Portuguese. I'm trying to find all these questions. Let me see it. I'm sorry, guys, I should have had them ready to go this one.

This Michael wants to know. Do you think Silence Scorsese get a Tree of Life, get in a lah Tree of Life, miss almost everywhere, but get in at the end. Yeah, I mean yeah, it's possible. I mean again, it's a passion movie. I think they're worried about it though. Honestly, what's gonna happen with the best Actress? All of these questions we've covered, than could Colossus ride the wave into a Best Supporting Actor nomination for did Well? Yeah? Definitely

make it happen. Oh. It was Rodrigo day Oliviera who asked the question, what kind of impact will the new international members of the Academy have in which films would benefit from it. Well, that's actually where Arrival, Yeah, grabs some some steam because denis well loved internationally. And you know, I think I've just been wrong on predictions this year. It is just where I face planet with the globes,

uh Sam coffee. I just love the way this is worded after a shocking globe win and a bath to nod, Is Aaron Taylor Johnson thing really happening? Is there room as we said earlier? Yeah, I think it is the Aeron Taylor Johnson thing. It is a thing. This is a funny question. Why do they love that shitty movie? I just don't understand Deadpool. Yeah, I wouldn't say it's a shitty movie. Come on it it's a on movie. Yeah again, I just didn't expect to be talking about

it a year later, But here we are. That's the season Casey affle like this week, Oh fantastic golden Globe. Golden Globe got played off the stage by those assholes. A nice little shout out to Denzel from the stage. I've been thinking Denzel was gonna win the Oscar, but it does seem to be lining up for Casey. Honestly, so I spoke to Casey this weekend and I don't know why. This just charms me. You know, he's the biggest fan of Lord of the Rings in the Hobbit.

Really Yeah, I don't know why that. I wouldn't have expected that. Yeah, like a passionate, passionate fan. Well. Interesting. We didn't talk about Lord of the Rings, but we talked about Manchester by the Sea and a couple of other things. So I guess stick around for that. Casey aff like after this, if you could take one guy to an island with you, and you knew you'd be safe because he was the best man. He was gonna keep you happy. It was between me and your father,

who would you take. I didn't think you're wrong about that. Let's sleep what happens to my brother? So that's the Nichan though. Understand which party you have him trouble? Well, I can't be his guardian. Well, your brother provided for your nephew's upkeep. I think the idea is that you would relocate, relocate if you look. It was my impression that you'd spent a lot of time here. I yeah,

I'm just a backup. Nobody can appreciate what you've been through and if you really feel you can't take this on, you know that's your right. When are we going to the offenite? Shut up, Cannab Your d doesn't tell you unlocked the door? What didn't you decide? You can always stay with us if he wants to come up weekends. Do you want to be his guardian? Well, he doesn't want to be my guardian. Try at this point, Hello, helloly and I just want to con say I'm sorry.

How's Patrick too? He doesn't really open up with me. Do you actually have sex with these girls? Strictly basement business means I'm working on it. You don't want to be my Gudea. That's fine with me, hot that it's just just's all my friends here. I got two girl friends and I'm in a band. You're a Janita and Quincy. What the hell do you care where you live? Welcome back everyone, I'm here with the Star of Manchester by the see Casey affleck Casey Man, thanks for coming by,

appreciate it my pleasure. Casey. Recently, uh, he was just admiring our cover of Variety. We've got a copy here. You know you're gonna look back at this year and you're gonna see just like a ton of burly Man photos, but like premieres, it's gonna be You're like Jeremiah Johnson year. I think, Oh, is that a good thing? It's a good thing. It's just funny to capture a moment in history. What what what are you rock in the main for? Again?

I forgot I'm about to do a movie playing a part of a guy who's been doesn't shave that often, so amongst other things, well, you're pulling it off. We were talking about Lewis and Clark too. I thought I thought that that mini series that you worked on was was what this was about. But working with John Karen on that, Uh, what do you think of him? I was actually a fan of The Painted Veil like ten years ago. I really liked the version of that. But

how do you like working with him so far? You know, I don't think that the experience that I had is a fair representation of kind of who he is as a director. We were trying to shoot six episodes of you know, our long tv um telling a story that

was spanned six or so years. Uh, that took place mostly in the wild and and with every day hundreds of extras and uh on horses without saddles and hundreds of uh you know, like natives and hundreds of and with dozens of boats or um made out of uh very very hard to move up rivers and uh and we were just trekking through the wilderness, and um, it was impossible. It was an impossible production. That the scripts were a little bit I think, um, it was probably

too ambitious. And then we ran into a bunch of problems just that you will run into when you're trying to shoot in the wild. Thunderstorms and shut the production every hours and um, the horses getting spooked and scattering and you can't get them back until aft to lunch, and just a million things went wrong. Um. But that that story is is a story that I think, you know, I got to know really well because I had done so much research on Marieth Lewis and the and the expedition,

and it's just incredible. Most people only know the kind of sixth grade you know, version of it, which you can tell in about twenty seconds, and they don't know any of the details. Uh. And and they're great. And he was an amazing character, very very complicated, brilliant guy. Um so Um, I don't think it will ever resume, but um, shame, it is a shame. I'd like to do it. Sometimes seems like a book could be written about the experience of that. It's like a it sounds

like a hurt Zog production or something. And fitz CAROLDA, you are we're talking about Hurtzog and tell your right. That reminds me you've got a great hurt Zog impression. Both you and Kenny have great Herzog and bron Um. He's such a hero up there. I didn't know that. I that was my first time. I'd tell you at film festival, and first of all, that was a great film festival. Um uh. And they have a whole theater

named after him. He's been going there for years and years. Uh. Celebrates his birthday up there every year because his birthday is like that week, is right, Yeah, it's Exceptember sixth or something like. Yeah. I tried to tell him a story my only I ran into him in a restaurant and I and I thought he would appreciate the story that I had to share with him, which was about the one time I had met him. Um. And he denied that the whole thing happened, which it's so bizarre.

I don't even know what to think of it. I know that it happened. I was there, Um, I remember it, and it's not not like an unflattering story for him.

I don't know why he would deny it, but he denied it, and it's given me now this idea that like, if people tell me stories about myself, I'm just gonna deny them, you know, like for no reason, Like you know, I met you here, I'll say no, that never happened, just to see like what their reaction was, because my reaction I was stumpfounded and I thought it reacted Okay, Well, I guess nice to meet you. Then we'll speaking of the cover here, a variety and and just covers and

a lot of attention this year for this role. And you've been on the circuits more or less since uh, Sun Dance. When you when you have a movie that premieres at Sundance and then it's scheduled to release in the fall, I mean that's always a long haul for anybody, but you've always struck me as somebody not comfortable with a lot of attention like that. So how's this year for you? So far, Well, it's been okay, it's been all right. I guess we have a movie that that UM,

it's trying to you know, youre trying to sell. You're hoping to sell and show it at Sundance. Sometimes it means that either you don't sell it, or then you sell it and comes out right away and then the whole thing's over with. UM. In this case, they sold it to Amazon and then Amazon wanted to, uh, you know, release it in November at the end of the year or so. It just meant that there was a big long stretch there and um. And so for a while we didn't to do anything. They were just kind of

sitting on the movie. Now it's about to come out, so taking into a bunch of film festivals, um, which has been nice. It's I like going to film festivals. Uh. I don't always like doing a lot of the other publicity. That's part of the job. I do it, but uh, it's true. It doesn't make me uncomfortable. And UM, and I wonder about sort of what the whole you know,

a whole I'm digging for myself. UM, but I think that uh, in this case, it's a it's a it's a movie that people responded to, and I wanted to support Kenny, and I like hanging around with all the people on the movie. So it's been fun. We've done five film festivals. I came back yesterday from Morelia, Mexico, where they have the film festival down there that is that was really an incredible experience. Um. It's their fourteenth year.

It's in Mishawak Khan and in a state that is having a a real hard time with crime and cartels and and uh e beet. They are trying to keep this festival going and um. You know, as you would imagine, they have a hard time getting people down there bring their movies and support it. Um. And they don't have a lot of movie goers in the area, so you know, we went to the screening and it wasn't It was

a very strange crowd. It was like families and little kids wandering around in the theater and um, babies and people who I think would never ever go see this movie. Um, yet someone had persuaded them or paid them to come and sit in the theater and watch UM. And that the area itself was like, uh, you know, no tourists, they're um, really old colonial village kind of and um it was back to the sixteenth century. And uh, they

had a screen set up in the plaza. Before the screening was kind of wandering around the city a little bit and there was this like really it was Saturday afternoon. It was a really lively little plaza and uh in the kind of old part of Old town, right around this cathedral from you know, fifteen sixty or something, and they had this outdoor screen set up. Uh. And it made me think of like Cinema Paradiso or some like the days when people would travel around like showing movies

that people who have never seen a movie. Obviously, these people have seen a movie. On the outskirts of town. There's even a kind of multiplex. But I think most people I don't see that many movies. They very probably never seen movies like Manchester by the Sea, kind of smaller American independent movies. Um. And no one was really paying too much attention to this like giant white uh rectangle on the plaza. You know. Then they were going to project the movie on and it was really it was.

It was kind of great. It was one of the best experiences because it wasn't you know, I don't know, people looking for autographs or or people who had sort of jaded film types and you know, bounce around fifteen film festivals they year or um, I'm just looking for their their picture, and it was it was there's people who, you know, we're asking questions like I did a little bit of press there and they wanted to know things like, you know, why do you make what is it like

to make a movie? Or what is ADVI? Is it fun to make a movie? Really kind of general questions that you don't hear that often, and you probably don't think about the answers to those kinds of questions very often either. Yeah, it made me. It made me so simple, it makes you think about it. That's interesting. Are you finding that the movie is connecting in these various different locales. I'm not sure how it connected yesterday and realiot uh if my opening remarks or any indication it might not

have gone over that well. I tried to speak in Spanish, uh, and then I tried to uh, and then I tried to speak through the translator, and UM, I don't think that the humor was landing. But uh, in other film festivals that's gone great, and it's played really well. I haven't seen it in any foreign Uh. I haven't seen it anywhere where people don't speak English. I haven't seen it subtitles or anything. Um, true, yeah, yes, but people seem to respond to you know, Kenny is such a

good writer and at least such a humanist. I think that kind of stuffed often translates. You know, there's there's something very Americana in some ways about this movie, but his work translates, I think because he's such a humanist writer. You guys, I loved spending some time with both of you until you right, because get these two together and like there's a lot of dry humor flying around, and you guys just have a great rapport. Uh. Your relationship

goes back to uh the production of This Is Our Youth? Right? When was that two thousand two? Uh at the Garrick Theater and the West End of London? Did This Is Our Youth? I didn't know Kenny then. I only knew him as the writer, as a guy who I wanted to, you know, I try to want to do some of his plays. Uh, And he never hired me, and then um he didn't for that production, and then we became really good friends. And then over the years we got closer. I did a a little one act of his before

it became a full play. It was called him Medieval Play. Um. That was one of the funniest things I've ever read. For sure. It was only about twenty months long. Um, and I did it a few times. Wed only did about five performances, and one of which I couldn't get through on stage because I was I was laughing. I was laughing maybe more than the audience was laughing at

some points. Um. I just think he I love his sense of humor and um, and you and and you can count on me and in Margaret, Um, they're both such emotional movies. Uh, you know, and I can't watch them without being being really moved and um uh I remember reading them and crying. And but there's also like, he's always really funny. You're both about like tragedies and people dealing with a lot of pain. Um, but they're

always really really funny. Yeah. You make a good point there about the humor we talked and tell you're right about just kind of the general uh sense of melancholy in this movie. But I don't want to put too much on that because You're right. He does have a great sense of humor, and there's a there's a sense of humor in Manchester. Certainly it's cool. But uh, this and we talked about this, and I just like the

listeners to hear about it more. The the being in that headspace as an actor, because there's so much tragedy in the film. There's a lot of just again melancholy. Is that difficult to maintain that headspace for an extended period of time when you working on this movie? You know, Actually it's harder to to go in and out of it. I think that probably Michelle had a tougher job because she had to sort of come in. She'd work a

day and go home for a week. Um, she didn't have you know, have she had a couple of pretty heavy scenes. Um. I think it's it's hard to a uh turn it on and off like that. Um. I had, you know, every day, I had some scene that for me, he was really challenging. That was very emotional in some way. And I know that Kenny, you know, what makes his movies great is that you really believe that this is these are real people and this is all really happening.

There's nothing no stylization to the writing or the direction that leaves puts the audience at a distance. You know, I think why they work so well is one of the reasons, as far as I can tell, is that people are drawn into caring about the characters and and um sucked into the story and in a way that uh sort of opens them up to feeling kind of emotional about them. UM. And so I had to play those scenes in a way that was naturalistic, is and while also sort of honoring the script that was very

precisely written. He takes a long time to write a script, and he said he spent three years on this, and you know, he really wants every word on the page in the movie. UM. And when characters are speaking and they're overlapping one another, he wants them to overlap, just as it's written. So it's kind of you have have to be have two minds, one very kind of technical um. And there's no point arguing with him because he's right

and it's it's beautiful writing. And then you have to also be sort of able to not think about that at all and be and just listening, responding to the other person and being um as emotionally truthful as you can be. And that's that was kind of my job and I and because I had to do some of these harder scenes I had to do really like every other day was some very very heavy scene in some in some ways I kind of just got into it and stayed in there, and you know, I I got

used to it. Um. I sort of I didn't have the kind of that anticipatory that dread of like, oh, there's this hard scene coming in a week or in two weeks, and I'm sort it's always in the back of my mind. It was just the next day I had to go play some some tough scene, and so I got out of my head and just would sort of show up in the right emotional state and to what was on the page. The cold probably helps a little bit, right, The cold, Yeah, just kind of doured somber,

you know, environment in some ways. You know, snow, I mean, it's not happy stuff that you're doing in that weather. You know, that's true. That's true. Although you know there's there was a few days in there where the characters are supposed to be freezing cold. It's kind of like what they're talking about in the scene. And of course you know, it's fifty five degrees or something. We're right at the end of the the winter. And so there are a lot of little things like that in this movie. Um,

it was hard. It was not an easy Things didn't always go our way sort of logistically, I didn't have enough time. And you know, it was this the not that this is important or interesting at all, but there was the kind of snowiest winter that Massachusetts has had and ten thousand years, and it was it was he had over a hundred inches of snow and um, and the and the script was had incorporated uh, winter imagery

into it sort of I thought, beautifully. You know, he wrote it in I don't know, over three years obviously, as I said, And so he wasn't writing it because he thought, Okay, I'm gonna get to shoot it in the winter. He was writing because he wanted it to be a winter story that then turns into spring. Um

for whatever reason. And uh, he had in some of the action lines in the script were about describing sort of parts of the city as frozen, you know in certain ways, and and how they thought out and how it changes the setting and you know, like the bay with all the boats covered and frozen in and nice around them and um things like that, and uh really

I thought I found kind of poignant. And then, um, we didn't get things together in time in this production, and so it was you know, March or April when we started shooting, and it was we we lost a lot of that. But I think that he still managed to make you feel like, you know, it was a winter and moved into spring movie magic, I guess, yeah, totally. Uh, let's talk about Lucas Hedges, your co star in this film. Newcomer.

He's so good, He's say and he it's gotta be hard to just be a newcomer and just nail Kenny's kind of rhythm and and it's a very naturalistic rhythm. But that's kind of a hard thing to do when you're confronting the artifice of filmmaking as an actor. So what was it like working with this guy? And uh, yeah,

just how did he striking? Um? I guess Lucas was seventeen when we started shooting, and you know, he was very focused, professional, mature seventeen year old, way more so than I was at seventeen or probably at thirty five. He's um he, I guess he grew up around movies. His dad was a director and grew up on sets

and um. You know, his parents are really really very conscientious parents and people, and um, they were around a bit and I got to know them, and I could sort of see how he became the person that he is, because they're really beautiful people and so um. You know, I never thought, oh, I'm working with a minor. I sort of felt like I was working with uh just appear he's he was, he was on it. Um. And

I think that it's a testament to Kenny. You know, how he how he cast his kid at the very last minute and and got sort of uh was able to guide him through a pretty tricky part. And uh. And as you point out, the writing isn't always easy. On the other hand, you know, reading scenes, the reading Kenny's writing, sometimes you can just open it and re cold and read it out loud and it sounds great and um. And I think that's because such a good ear for kind of how people talk, especially how young

people talk. Um. Uh and this is our youth. You know, he really captures that, like how the repetitive nature of some of the conversations and kids sitting around and you know, uh, sort of seemingly not talking about anything but really sort of um um, sharing a lot more than they think that they're sharing. Uh. Where do you think he's able to pull that from me? Is he's just a king

of observation and able to just translate that. I guess. So, yeahvation good writer, but also like I don't know, he's you know, he says that when he sits down to write, he is able to he just plays the parts in his head. And I think it's also probably would make him a good actor. He's been in um, all of his movies, perfect in this one. Yeah, he's good in this one. Um. I think he just he gets it. He's a huge fan of movies from like the twenties, thirties, forties.

I think his interests kind of Peter Auder in the sixties and seventies. But um, so he loves he loves that stuff. You know. That's like you can see kind of his influence from some of that stuff and in his movies. I know it sounds the two sounds so

like incongruous. That like the way that he captures, you know, a seventeen year old Domestchusetts and how he talks now with um some movie from nineteen thirty eight about gangsters, you know, but I can sometimes see it, you know, you know, Uh, he loves you know, Gary Cooper and there's It's funny the things that he that he likes. But he uh, he has a real um. He loves movies and he and uh he loves um. He likes to write people who are holding onto a lot um

and uh, I'm not talking about it that much. He's or he likes to or not. He can talk about that, but he's really good at writing characters who are carrying a lot of pain. Yeah, I wanted to venture out a little bit. Next year is going to be the tenth anniversary of the assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford. I say this every year. I'm still waiting on somebody to make a better movie. I mean that it's the best film I've seen since it came out.

I love the film. I'm a huge Westerns fan. But it's just such an iconic, uh piece of work. And it's weird because I don't love Andrew Dominic's films nearly as much as I love that one. But something about that one just is a landmark for me. And uh, what do you think when you look back ten years from that movie and and that was a big year in general for you because you had gone, Baby Gone

as well. So but you know, looking back at Jesse James, that's how we first met, really was working on reviving the film and getting it in the repertory art health circuit. But talk about that, well, I think that you were, um, um, you picked up pretty early on that it was a good movie and it wasn't not everyone else sort of thought of it that way. It wasn't received, It wasn't received that well um at first, and nobody went to see it. So by that definition, uh, you know, I

guess it was just kind of a failure. Uh. And then since then people have discovered it and more people have liked it, and critics have started to talk about it. But I think it maybe at first glance it was um true. Why it fell between the you know, fell through the cracks, I don't I don't really know. It didn't seem to have the best release pattern frankly coming out of venice Um. I don't know what they thought they were dealing with, But I always thought it was

a unique way to put out that movie. I don't know what they thought what they were dealing with either. And I know that there are a lot of disagreements between Andrew and between the studio, and that it's sort of undercut any momentum that it had. It got a sort of got a bad there's some bad word of mouth on it just because of that. Because it took so long to come out. And I remember read a Hayworth and show Shank or the show Shank Redemption was just called, and I had loved the story and um

so much. I was waiting for that movie to come out, and it was years and years, and then everyone said, oh it's a disaster, it's over three hours. It didn't work out, And and when it came out, um, it already had that kind of stink on it. And I think that Jesse James was the same way. Um. But you know, to Andrew's credit, he's really stuck by that movie.

And when most of other people would have given up, because I thought, I don't want my my you know, this blemish on my on my career, my reputation, people are gonna think of me as a director. It doesn't get along with the studio, people are gonna think of me this way or that way, and you know, people compromise, and he did not compromise. Uh. He made the movie that he wanted to make. And he might say in the end that there are still some compromises he did

have to make. You know, I saw a cut that was ten minutes longer, thing that was he considers to be his cut. Um um. But by and large, and he really stood by that movie when everyone else was sort of jumping ship and and so I think that people were ready to not like the movie. Also, I think, you know, from an audience perspective and maybe from the

studio had perspective there, like why should we what? What is what kind of movie is it where Brad Pitt is your lead and he dies halfway through or something? You know, if that doesn't that's not the kind of movie we we thought we were making. Um. But that's what the book was, that's what the script was, and that was the movie that Andrew wanted to make. Um. It's definitely one of the best experiences that in my career.

And uh, either's something about Andrew. He's really a pure director and meaning that you know, he didn't come out of doing something else, and you know, he just sort of stepped He made his first movie, and uh I it was great. I know that, Um and he you know, I don't know where he learned how to kind of direct actors that that way. Some directors they spend a long time in theater, or they even take acting classes, or they or they're no good at working with actors. Um,

Andrew's great at work with actors. And he's also great visually. And he's also you know, amazing at sort of production design and its sound design, and he's a great writer. He's sort of all of those all of those things that are required to be the person who is uh in charge and making a movie, and that in that way, you know, he doesn't really make it by committee. It's it's a handmade film by Andrew dominic And and so at all at all feels of it's a whole piece.

And uh, I wish you would make more movies. I kind of wish the same thing about Kenny. I wish that he would make I wish that our the film community would make it easier for guys like that to make more movies. Instead of saying we're not going to support him because his last movie made X number of dollars or um took so many years to be cut.

You know, she should. Those are the people who keep this industry interesting and alive, and um, we should help them work more, even if it means just like being a little more uh supportive financially totally. And that note about just the movie having kind of an identity before anyone can even see it, it's so true. I mean it's like people can't just let the process work itself out, Like movies aren't just like made to order, Like sometimes it takes off for the director to get there in

the editing room or whatever they're trying to do. And the obsession with the process and both the media and just kind of fandom is uh, it can be hurtful sometimes I was kind of cheer. Oh. There's also there's a line in that film that cracks me up to this day that you deliver I just want to do an impression over you real fast. Um. It's right after Sam Shepard finishes chewing you out and you go over to bread and you're like me and your brother, I

just had a real nice visit. It kills me every time there's there's funny stuff like that in that movie. That's another reason I like it. It's kind of a complex movie in terms of tone sometimes. Uh. And also, you know, I forgot that you were in Almarta's Hamlet, so I, um, it's like sixteen years ago though, the kind of modern take on Hamlet with Ethan Hawk and the role, and uh, I've forgotten all about that. It's

a fascinating movie. Do you remember it now that you've I just think I was there for about thirty minutes. I don't. I don't. That was like a movie made for nothing, probably shot in a few weeks, and you know, I had a few lines, and um, I felt like, well, that was a weird experience. I remember ran into Michael at the New York Film Festival after the screening of Manchester c and he was lovely and I, uh, I hadn't seen him in a decade. Uh. He's such an

interesting guy and interesting filmmaker. I kind of loved that movie. It's such a product of its time too. I think there's like a more Chiba song in it or something like that. Uh. And you know the last question here, when you guys were young, when you were living up on that Hill Street house in Eagle Rock or was this what the dream looked liked? Did it differ from the reality and any significant way for you, like when you were trying to break in? Is this what you

were hoping for? Um? You know? When I lived there, I after high school, I me and my best friend drove out to l A. And uh I never been out there. I didn't really know anyone who had any success. I didn't have an agent. I didn't know how to find an agent. Lived in Eagle Rock. I didn't even I don't think I even went into Hollywood. I think I knew Hollywood was I thought I was in Hollywood.

I was an Eagle Rock and uh uh. I I liked acting because I like doing it's in high school, you know, and and what that is a pretty um far cry from what it really is to be like

an I'm actor who works in movies and TV. Uh So when I was out here, I spent most of the year trying to find an agent and trying to find a job, and I get auditions and I was working in some restaurant and really I sort of lost interest over the course of the year because it wasn't a great experience I didn't like the auditions I was getting or anything I was reading. And it wasn't like what I remembered of, you know, doing theater and my high school, which sort of sounds so naive, but it

was true. And and uh, I the dream that I had was based on that. It was that I just liked sort of doing drama in a way that a kid does. And and but so no, it doesn't look like I didn't know what was in fo I know what I was getting this over into. Uh. And I I'm incredibly grateful for the career that I have now, because I almost I can't. I can't explain the good fortune.

Um Like, when I did Jesse James, I thought, if I could just I read the book and I thought I heard they were making it into a movie, and I thought, if I could play this part, I'll never ask for anything else, you know. And then I did it, and I and then I went on to work with a handful of other people who whose movies I admired and I really wanted to work with and I um and each time I thought like, oh man, this has

got to be the pinnacle of my career. This is this is amazing and then I go on get to do something else, and I stayed close to so many of them, and um, I had to know gus Man sand and then he would invite me to go, you know, edit on one of his movies and just sort of sit around and learn watch him shadow him and Harris Vitas is shooting, and I get to be around all these people who are just you know, brilliant and I um and for whatever reason, they were included me and

we're nice to me. And so the dream in in some way, uh is better than what I thought, you know, the the reality was better than is better than what I dreamt UM. In other ways, it's uh a lot worse. You know. There are things that I didn't know about. I was I was gonna have to do, and um, I didn't realize like I didn't never thought ahead said

well someday you're gonna have kids. Now you're the only thing that you were able to do to murder Livings be an actor, and you're gonna have to go away for four months and go do a movie and it's gonna be heartbreaking to be with your family along and stuff like that. Uh So there's all the kind of the challenges that come with it, um, as with any job, and just responsibility and getting older and stuff. So the

reality has been pretty different than than the dream. And um, do you think you think you're still chasing that feeling you had in high school? Well, I'm chasing the feeling that I've had. You know, some I I s get a little little glimpses of teeny tiny little doses of on some of the movies that I've done. Too. Uh. I wish I could do more theater. Um, that's kind of the purest version of of what I like to do. But I don't live in New York or London. I live in l A and it's not that much of it. Also,

I really love the people who are making movies. It's fun to be around them and everybody from like the directors to the when it's done talking about them, you know, with people who like to talk about them, and we're interested and talk about them in smart ways and have smart questions, not the other all that other noise that happens. Um. I love. I also love making movies, so I'm happy to do it. Um. I don't think, Okay, this is definitely how I'm gonna spend the rest of my life.

It might be UH doing something else, either by choice or because you know, I'll stop getting work. Um, but I can foresee a time when I'm not being an actor and and that doesn't scare me too much. UM. Okay, that's good, I'd be scared. Uh. In the meantime, go see Manchester by the Case. He is phenomenal in it, and congratulations in advance for your OSCAR nomination. Not to jinx it, but I don't. I think it's a safe bet. It's it's an amazing performance. So thanks again for being

on the show man. I really appreciate my pleasure anytime. Thanks dude, m M. Thanks for listening everyone. Remember to subscribe and check back next week. You've been listening to playback at Variety. M