Ep17 - Kevin Costner / "Hidden Figures"

Welcome to Trump's America. We've thrown it out to reader questions for this uh last little literally run out of people, so put it in, put the words in our mouth. Let's just dive into it. Um Marshall Schaeffer, any predictions for how the guilds will change the narrative like they did with American Sniper, Dragon Tattoo, etcetera. Well, arguably they didn't try change the narrative with Dragon Tattoo because those nominations didn't really turn out to be Best Director of

the Best Picture Academy. But I see what he's saying, Uh, guilds. I think the person the person, sorry, the film that will probably benefit the most as Hidden Figures. I think that's probably start to take it seriously with that I mean I think, look, I know there's plenty of people that think Arrival is in the thick of it. I could totally see it get p G A and dj

A nominations. But you know, I could see that because he's come around late in the game and they had this big Christopher Nolan thing with him, and they're they're really pushing it. I think it could happen. But I still get Wait, what's the Christopher Nolan thing Q and A with him at the center family. That's very big of him, Like I would be like, and you're encroaching on my territory, right, I'm the tweety smart sci fi

emotional like a little passing of the baton if you will. Um. But and we got this Blade Runner trailer that hit last year. Denny is hot right now, and I love him. I think he's an amazing I think he was overlooked last year for Cicario. He said, vibe and look, maybe I'm wrong. I keep getting this vibe around Arrival. I'm getting this Nightcrawler vibe. I'm getting this vibe yeah where it's like yeah, PGA nominee. I granted those two movies didn't get TG nominations, but it just maybe falls off

at the end of the day. And I've been feeling the same way about Amy. We'll see. I'm happy to be wrong. I mean, it's not like I'm being definitive here. I'm just kind of going with my gut. I've always thought Amy was in on this race, and I've had people telling me I'm wrong this whole time because it is such a competitive category. The person that I've never bought is has a secure cure spot is Meryl Streep

and Ruthnega. Not because they don't deserve it. They're both fantastic, but I'm just you know, Meryl really doesn't do press. She doesn't need it. Of course she's fantastic. We've all come to expect that. Um, and I don't know, like how how is Loving doing? M Well, not that that matters. I mean, like hand me voters, because I still thing is to like, we've got six seven new Academy members.

That's that's the biggest leap we've ever had. It. We can no longer say, well the Academy yeah yeah, I mean, well you can never really say that, like you're basically saying, oh, the hundred people I talked to generous. Yeah, um, it's like one guy, you know, happy my ear off at a screening, who's like really pulling for Miles talent my makeup branch buddy. Yeah, those makeup people are serious man. Like I almost said, you know how they like narrow

it down and you have to give a presentation. I almost feel like that's the way we should do best picture, Like I has to get up and over the months we narrow it down five. Yeah, Colin Llewellyn, which film didn't get enough recognition in two thousand sixteen? And which is your most anticipated going into two thou seven teen. I haven't looked ahead much yet. There's the James Ponselt movie, A movie, so I'm always there for PTA's new movies.

What's that one? I forgot? Somebody helped me out on that. But look, I literally don't look ahead to the new year until it's the new year. Yeah, I mean that's true. I mentioned Blade Runner. I think Blade Runner looks kind of awesome. I mean I wasn't a huge I'm not a huge Blade Runner fan by the way, which is probably huge fan, and I'm very excited about this new one. And Roger Deakins is like, looks like he's crushing it. You know. The Circle is the name of the James

ponsel I just I think he's a fantastic packer. Also The Glass Castle with Bree Lawson and I'm throwing out there now Best Supporting Actor contender Woody Harrelson playing her crazy dad. Wow, and he's got Wilson earlier in the year, so he might have quite a narrative. But he did Wilson. I've read that script of years ago. Yeah, it's going to be like a sun Dance early Spring movie. Though. He's a great actor, so he was so good an

Edge of seventeen. Hey, wait, there's a movie that should have gotten more recognition Edge of seventeen because it didn't make any money and you've been talking about it. I still haven't. You still haven't seen it. Oh see, I don't want to oversell it because then we have a shallow situation, right where a movie is okay, but everybody is so surprised it's okay that No, um, yeah, it was great. It was on my top five list. I guess I would probably say Green Room. Yeah, I mean

I think that I thought that did well. I mean it did well, but like you know, it in its frame, and then people forgot it and moved on to the other movies. And I think it stuck around as one of the best movies of the year, and it should have been May being singled out for that. If I had longer to think about this, maybe I'd come up with something else. How did Florence Foster Jenkins do at the box box office? Because I also really loved that movie.

I think it did well in August and then they re released it, so I don't know how much they re released did, but I thought that that had a really good shot at a sag entseumble. Noom you know in the Golden Globes kind of brought it back, and yeah, I think it's a big crowdpleaser. There's a couple of movies like that are such late releases. I don't know if they're underappreciated yet. We both really like Patriots Day, you know, I'd like to see how that does, and

it goes wide in January. Um still remains to be seen how Hidden Figures will do. But the Independence Day Resurgence, it only made three millions slop. Did you see certain women? I did not well. Nevertheless, rogue Observer would like to know what the outlook is on that for award season. Why has its buzz sort of faded away? I mean, I don't know that it had like hot buzz. Some critics gave it up for the like Lily Gladstone. I mean, if anything, that's that's a critics movie, and yeah, that's

where it's gonna thrive. And you know, sometimes they move on to other shiny objects. Well, and also it's just such a crazy race this year for actress and supporting actress. You know, it's it's hard to get in there. This person wants to know if we will all live to see two thousand eighteen. No idea, I'll get back to. This person wants to know how I can dislike Swiss Army Man so much? You do you just like Swiss

Army Man. I couldn't stand it. Oh, this is interesting because I thought I would hate it, and I was really really surprised by the fact that I liked it. Yeah, I mean, again getting back to what we said last week about movies that people just dogpile and I'm not like interested in tearing it apart, but like I appreciate that people love the movie and found Hard in it. I just it was it was the whole thing was a stunt to me. It didn't translate emotionally at all.

And hey, that's where I fell. I commend A twenty for picking a movie like that up. I think they're you know, I do this thing every year that the superlatives like best Countless Thing, super lattice and I do, uh like Entertainer of the Year, and I think is the Entertainer of the Year, just because of their interesting, wide swath of the content between that the Lobster obviously Moonlight. Help me out what else Green Room? Uh didn't they do? They did Twenty Century Women, they did Amy last year.

But yeah, I mean they're just I love their portfolio of stuff they've picked up from America, from America. Shout out to my boy Chad Hard again we got to film school together. Uh, David would like to know. Wait, he says, He says, no questions, just happy you're doing in all show We needed that. We really did at the end of this year, any shocks, no Golden globes results like last year brewing. But okay, let me make

this an actual sentence. It wins another fan no Golden Globes results like last year brewing based on what you are hearing? Okay, Golden Globes, shockers on the horizon. Um. I mean the conventional thinking is that Moonlight will take drama and la Land will take musical. What if they surprised us in Moonlight doesn't take drama. I think they're both set. Actually, um, because I think they're I know law la Land is like collectively their favorite movie. Yes,

and that's in the musical comedy category. That's a lock. What's Moonlight up against that could possibly take it? Not hidden figures but perfect there were no studio this hell or high Water Moonlight. Manchester by the Sea could be Manchester, uh one or the other two. It could be Manchester. But I don't think they liked that as much like they kind of fences? Is that nominated? Someone's yelling at us. I'm sure, I don't think. I don't think we're gonna

get a shocking Best Picture Best Well. The year that they awarded Grand Budapest Hotel Best Comedy over Birdman, that was a surprise. Birdman was in like the less competitive category and went up because they Birdman won screenplay only from the Globes, which is, yeah, well that was a year of Boyhood when everybody was so share Boyhood was going to make a clean sweep and you know me

not me either. I was like not that, you know, I wasn't a fan of the movie, but I was like, I think people are confusing critics with Oscar voters, and there's a very difference. That's why I'm like, I'm not calling a front runner in the Best Actor category yet until we get some gildin no. I mean like, yeah, all the critics are going with Casey Affleck, but it's

pretty tough to Denye dends on Washington. And like I said last week, you know, if people see Bigo mortensand and Captain Paid Picture, uh yeah, I mean I think I still think Denzel is winning that, but I don't know what I mean. I mean, I kind of do too. I'm but like, there's you know, there's three people you know who I think are in the running, and they're also good. We say this on the air, I don't remember. I feel like there's a world where Ryan Gosling just yes,

I do too. Yeah. So so until like the Guild speak, basically, until the SAG Awards, you know I'm hesitant to cry front run around and the only ones that matter personally. It's the only thing where the memberships kind of cross pollinate. Mary kring will Fit is back with I know you're an advocate for a best Ensemble category? Am I? I think she means me probably he sorry, Mary, Mary E r r y. It's it's a it's a an altered

Twitter handle for the for the season. Uh says I know you're an advocate for but so you're not you're an advocate for that? Huh advocate? I mean yeah, yeah. I don't think that there's any correlate should between Best Ensemble and Best Picture. And I'll say that till I'm blue in the filtre Um. But I do love the ensemble category. I love that the SAG Awards, you know, ensemble. And this is a tough one for me because these are five true great ensembles. Um, I think Moonlight is

the obvious choice. Um, that is up the perfect cast. Yeah, it'd be my pick two. Um, but hidden figures. Are we predicting or are we saying because he he must to know who should win this year? Moonlight? You think Moonlights? Yeah, we both think Moonlighters is the best ensemble. But you know, I do think that, Uh, I think it's gonna go to Fences. Really well, that would not be a bad choice. It's a perfect cast, and so I think Fences and

Hidden Figures are real threats to Moonlight. I mean, all three of those casts are pretty remarkable, and um, Hidden Figures sort of has the advantage of it's be It's filled with a lot of familiar faces that people love. You've got Kevin Costner and Jim Parson, into Arshi be Henson, Octavia Spencer, who doesn't love Octavia Spencer? And then you know new faces like Janelle Monet, who's so good in a double nomine Moonlight. Yeah. I keep refreshing to see

if someone will send us some more questions. Never happened, bunch of them. Um any any any Uh? What do you call it New year resolutions? I don't make New Year's resolutions? Um be in it, but no more than like, why do I want to set myself up for failure? But can I just say I'm so happy to say

goodbye to this year? So happy too. And it's a weird thing to say, because like, I mean, look, I had to kid this, it's amazing, but like, but also the year started with my dog dying, and I said, like, you know, well, the year can't get much worse, and then it's been a rough one and it will be very interesting to see like just I mean, look, we've talked about it all year about La La Land being this movie you can escape with and how it makes it an easy pick almost after such a downer of

a year. Can I tell you I don't I don't think I told this on the air. Um deb Akilla, who cast law the Land, who's like, she's an amazing casting director. She's probably cast all your favorite movies. I did a Q and A with her and some people from La La Land a couple of weeks ago and sort of asked like, you know why it was such a good time for this movie, and she talked about the song in Maine we need a little Christmas. You know. I love that song, and she's like, I just feel

like it applies to this movie. We need a little La La right now. And I was like, yeah, well that that says it all. Follow La La La. That was such a corny joke. That was like from Swingers when he's like, well we all have stories and it just kills the mood. Anyway, on that note, would you and I can? I can? I can bring up my dead dog again listen. But I'm very sorry to hear that you have a new one though. Oh I was fostering one. Yes, but she went she went to a

lovely home. Yeah, and let me tell you, I was getting like I was getting some celebrity help with this dog, like Joel Edgerton was offering too, because she had a when she curls up, she has a heart. I checked out my Instagram. I'll repost the picture and she's a sweetheart, and um, you know I was. I was saying, like, you know, she's she's been in the system quote unquote for a few years and it's never found at home.

And Joel was like, well, you know, He's like, tell me if you want me to tweet it, like I'll post a picture of her. And Ryan Goslin said the same thing, and I was like, okay, but when you know, I want to make sure I get someone who's serious about the dog and just like a movie fan. But no, she found a wonderful, wonderful home. Let's just close with that, because that's a great story, this terrible year on and

everyone have a happy New Year. Will be back next month with raw Oh and by the way, speaking earlier of Kevin Costner, Kevin hidden figures, and we don't just talk about hidden figures. We talk about like as much as I could do in thirty minutes. It was like a sprint through his career. He's got so many great stories. But one of my favorites that I've done here, So stay tuned to that. You know we're doing here. We're putting a human on top of a missile shooting into

space and it's never been done before. I need a mathematician that can look beyond the numbers. Math that doesn't exist. You have someone fans. Katherine is a girl for that. She can handle in a numbers you put in front of them, you'll compute that nasty and then women handle that sort of Yes, that women do some things that massa Mr Johnson, And it's not because we're wear skirts. It's because we wear glasses. Do you've been last for see you? What's my mama going for twelveman a half days? No,

but it felt like it. In fourteen days. Astronauts will be here for training everything we do canna matter to their wives, to their children. I really it's gonna matter to the whole country. I was already. There's no protocol for women attending, there's no protocol for ma certally nerdy side. We all get there together, we don't get there at all together. Let me ask you, if you add like mad, would you wish to be an engineer? I wouldn't have to already be one. Welcome back everyone, I'm here with

the Star of Hidden Figures, Kevin Costner. Thanks for doing the show Man, Thanks for being here. It's a huge pleasure to have you on the show. I realized when I started preparing that I need way more than a half hour. Yeah, it is. It's I mean, we live in a world where you know, when you're going to television shows, it's like it's the ideas that they really want to hear what you say, but they really don't.

It's all about you plug in your movie and then getting to the last joke and moving to the next guest. And it's only things like this where sometimes you can get below the surface and you're right, thirty minutes doesn't even really do it unless you're drilling down on a few ideas. That's what I'm gonna try to do. I'm gonna start with I think one of my probably my earliest cinematic memory. Actually, I'm curious if you remember your time on this the episode of Amazing Stories, right the mission,

Steven Spielberg. Yeah, that was an interesting moment. A couple of things happened there. That was right after Fan Dango and uh, you know, Stephen was gonna move into this television idea and turned out he was gonna actually direct that episode, and I learned a couple of things about myself. Interesting enough, I love working with him, but I really wasn't at my best. Um, it came to them. We shot on a Monday, and I probably heard on a Thursday they wanted me to do it. And as it

turns out, I'm not a quick study of lines. It's a really it's very difficult for me. I have a tendency to get completely off book, something like JFK or the movie I'm doing with Aaron Sorkin or the last movie I did. I learned it probably at least a month before we shoot, and then I'm sitting with it for a month and then shooting starts and I become very very comfortable. I was incredibly uncomfortable and sure as heck.

He did a very long shot, a rolling shot that involved getting all the lines, and I struggled with it and it was a really hard moment for him. But

you know, it was really beautiful looking. I'm happy that I did it, but I'm not happy with how I felt doing it because I wasn't really at my best and and so it I know that episodic TV it would be very very difficult for me, and I learned it on Amazing Stories diving into the water there with something like that with Spielberg too, I mean, were you nervous, Well, I I don't. I didn't get nervous about that, but I I felt like, you know, he's depending on me to be able to do anything he wants to do

with the camera. I should be delivering with all the rhythms in the world, my my, and I think there was probably a moment where I might have looked a little stiff to him. I might have looked a little bit not like, you know, I wasn't that malleable in the sense that I was really I was not performing as much as I was just kind of like hoping to get all the lines right. So it's just a pattern for me that I learned to put it this way as a five year old. None of that showed up.

It was a magical episode, And like I said, I think it's probably my earliest memory of just kind of sitting down a front Remember a movie marked me as a seven year old. You know how the West was one at the center. Imadn't totally that would have been awesome. Um, I wanted to, Like I said before we started talking, I want to skip a stone if I can across some of the things in your career. And one thing you just mentioned briefly, JFK. I think is one of

the greatest films ever made. I mean, certainly one of the most impeccably shot and edited films I've ever seen. And it's celebrating its twenty fifth anniversary this year. Does it feel like twenty five years? It doesn't. But there was I tell you it was working with a lot of film stock. He was I think writing really well. Um. I think he was feeling it, meaning in a really

good way. It was very passionate about that movie. It was a big bite that he took out of a difficult subject and I thought he kind of he brought people into that process, whether or not they believed in it. It was powerful filmmaking, absolutely, And what do you think the legacy is of of that movie. I don't know, Um, I don't know what. I don't know what it is.

I think, uh, any generation that chooses to see. And that's what you have to keep in mind when you're actually making a movie that you know, you're not making them for opening weekend. Although that's the god that everybody's praying to out there, the reality is that there's gonna be five year olds, and certainly not for JFK, but for amazing stories. They're going to be people that it

has a chance to mark. And a movie like JFK has a chance for generations to visit it when they come of an age where that interests them and the questions posed are really really important. And you know, there was a there was a shift in the country about you know, we used to think my parents thought certainly that people in power told you the truth, and it's really not. It's really not always the case. And we've

seen that for the next sixty years. Absolutely, for the last sixty years, I think Uh, some thing that stands out to me, Like I mentioned that, the editing and the photography, just the manipulation of craft and filmmaking. I feel like that movie is a sterling example of it, Like what you can make of you or feel by how you juxtapose imagery, by how you shoot something. I mean, every time I talked to Bob Richardson, I asked him

something else about that movie. You know, right, well, Bob was you know, Bobby has really bested himself in the imagery and storytelling, you know, alongside a lot of different directors, and it's a big imprint yea. And the cast too. I mean you you were an anchor for a massive, sprawling cast. There was a lot of great film TV even some theater actors in there. What was that camaraderie like with you guys, Well, it was good. Everybody that came was really ready to work. Uh. You know, um

Oliver is uh, you know, he's really on point. You know, this is like you know, uh, he's he was. It was. It was a lot. It's a lot for me and it was gonna be a lot for them. And there was no there was no waiting. We needed to go and we needed to be sharp all the way through. And I knew that from myself, that that that that every day was gonna be a load or workload. It wasn't. There was nothing casual about that movie. Yeah. I could talk about that movie with you forever, but for both

our sakes, I'll move on. But that was right podcast. People are going, yeah, thank god, get off that thing. It's only three letters, grow up, JFK. Come on, you were in that was in the middle of a great stride for you too. I mean you had come off of Field of Dreams and obviously Dances with Wolves, which is what I'm about to talk about. Uh, that film, which when I watch it, by the way, I watched the four hour version. Just sit there and marinate in

that world. But uh, what did it mean for you at that time in your career to get that kind of a pat on the back from the industry. I mean, you were really the toast of the industry with that film, seven Oscars and all of that. What did that mean to you to get that kind of recognition at that point in your career, you mean off of Dan just yeah, well that was that was a great night, which you know, people have a tendency to look at that moment and not put my life in reverse. My life in reverse?

Was that um that I I felt like I wanted to try to make this movie and I couldn't get anybody to give me any money, you know. Um and uh and uh actually postponed the movie one year because I didn't have the ending that I wanted. I couldn't solve the ending with me saying goodbye to all the major characters. I wanted each moment to be really pure, so I postponed it for a year. And uh, you know, what was that like for the industry. It's not so

much what it was like for the industry. It's a It was a healthy reminder to me that when I do what I want to do, that everything else takes care of itself. You know. I wanted to make that movie by hook or by crook. I mortgaged you know, my house, so to speak. I put my salary up. I you know, we raised our money foreign We made that movie for sixteen million dollars and it was everything. And it was really even an undertone out there that was kind of ugly, which was Kevin's Gate. What's he

doing at there? Was like Kevin's Gate like this movie as a disaster. I didn't know where that had come from. I know this. I had to turn down um Hunt for Red October because I had promised I was going to do dances. And you know, some people thought that me saying no to Red Hunt for Red October was that I needed more money. It wasn't more money. It was like I had already postponed dances for a year, a year earlier, and I wasn't going to do it now.

I had all my things in place. In fact, if anything had caused me a lot of pain, because there was more money offered on Hunt for Red October than I've ever seen in my life. So I was like

I So I was like doing the dumb thing. I was putting up all my money and leaving behind the biggest check I'd ever seen, only to have it all end up working, you know, its way into you know, into a you know, a pretty good movie, you know, but it was I did it with my friends out of acting class, where we none of us had any money. My friend who never had a screenplay produced wrote it. My friend who you know, who's you know, the big producing I could have had probably anybody in town produce it.

Had a person that had no credits really to speak of to produce it, and we all want oscars. And we were working in a chemical plant down by the l A River in a class for actors and no one paid a dime because none of us had a dime. And so to have that work. Somebody wants to talk about that night, what was that like? But you know, for me, it was like I got my money back, I got my house back, you know. Um. And the music played seven times, because you know, when you win

the awards, your music play. Yea, So it was a nice it was a nice moment that way. Um. But I had made up my mind what I wanted to do. And like I said, anybody out there listening, it's like if you get on. I mean it's a little bit like that with Hidden Figures, It's like it's like that for me with black or White. These movies I just wanted to do. And when I'm doing that, I'm usually in the best space that I need to be. Um, again, another movie I could probably just keep going on and

on about. I think it's amazing. Um. You went into Perfect World not long after that, working with Clint one of my favorite of his movies. What have you retained from working with Clint? I'm always curious with when actors worked with Clint. He I like I'm saying, it's it's like I'm on a first name basis with Clint Eastwood. But you know, he's one of those guys I guess, but one or two takes and then move on. He's really confident in his actors. I'm always curious what actors

take from that experience of working with him. Yeah, he Um, he gives himself one take or two take because I think he's really sure about how he acts. Um. I asked him for some more takes. Um. I did because I was working with a kid, and a lot of times a kid wasn't doing what I needed him to do, and I wasn't sure I was able to give him the moment that I needed to isolate. And uh so that was a really um really Johnny Lee Hancock wrote

that movie. It was really great, and I wanted to really want it to be in it, but I was amazed that how Clint seemed to get his day pretty effortlessly. You know. Um, I always feel like when I'm out there directly, I'm struggling to get my day, and I felt that he managed to get his day pretty effortlessly, um, you know, and that was one of the big takeaways. But he allowed me a little bit of room because I said, look, it's I'm working with his kid, and

I'm not working across another actor. And there's some beats that I hope editorially you have. And I can tell you right now that kid was way over here when he should be here, and so we're gonna we're gonna get stuck with one version and there's no you're gonna have no editorial choices. And so we got through the movie that way, and I think he really understood. And I watched I watched him at the kind of economy that he worked with. When I was growing up, Tin

Cup was one of these movies. It was on HBO every day. Did you go to school man at all? Man? I just watched movies watching movies. I got it. I went to film school. Actually, yeah, it was on all the time, and I feel like I knew it by heart. Now I almost kind of want to say, can we get a sequel to that movie? Like you could have like your version of Creed yeah, you're like the old

weathered golfer. There's a there's a theme there with Bodyguard two and with dances, the early years, the after years, you know, the body of the Bull Durham one and two and now he's a manager in the big leagues, and and of course you know um Tin Cup and

and and right on. You know, along with a lot of those movies, everybody was looking for the two, you know, the two and the three, you know, or there's always the two is always not so good, and they apologize for two and they give you the third one because they basically go back in the truck up with the shovel and saying how big how much do you want? You know, So I haven't played at that smart and

done all those two's. Well, I'm just pitching you. I think there's a there's a Tin Cup to to be Yeah, I think so. Well Ron would be the guy to get it right. Yeah, uh Ron Shelton For everyone wondering about that The Postman. Um, I have a funny story about the Postman. Now you make me feel like I really didn't go to school, but uh I was. I

went to see that film. I went to like the last showing and uh, I didn't know the movie was three hours long, and so my dad was out front to pick me up, and I like, looking at my watch, I go a three hours long? I was. I think it was about two and a half, but it was. I don't even know if it was two and a half, but it was. You know, when they put the longer than I expected, an I had to go outside and like, Dad, it's not over yet. I'll be out in a bit.

But uh, I'm always curious. Like that movie came a couple of years after water World, and those are two massive undertakings, both of them. So what gave you the energy to take on the someone after doing something like water World? Well, you know, I wish that Dances was a small movie. I wish Postman was a small movie.

They just weren't. I mean, I would have been happy to do a haunted house movie from my first movie, but it just what I fall in love with I make, and I actually it was really charmed by the story of the Postman. I think I probably should have put something in front of it, you know, saying like once upon a time, so everybody understood that this was almost

a fairy tale of the future. Once upon a time there was a Postman, and I was really charmed by a story of a person who is just trying to survive and through a couple of odd moves, suddenly as anointed with some kind of of maybe stature that he obviously knows he doesn't deserve. But the truth is he's

getting fed, even getting laid. You know, there's a lot, there's a lot of things that are coming out of this, and so from a humanistic standpoint, from a human behavior, it's like, well, who wouldn't want to try to keep that going? But unfortunately the lie gets bigger and bigger and you and you're kind of waiting for that moment to say, hey man, I'm not a postman. I am a guy that was just trying to stay out of the way. Um. So I'm very fond of that movie.

But that was a that's a big movie. Yeah. Well, like I said, how did you have the energy? I mean, we did it exhaust you going through that film? I think I was, but I I don't know. I like work, and once I'm working, you know, it's like there are fifteen hour days, you know, six days a week. I mean, you know those locations were big and um, we we really went at it. Yeah, one more before I get to the uh, the the movie you're here to talk about, uh, and that's Open Range. Uh. I think that that is

one of the most underrated Western's ever. I'm a huge fan of the genre. I don't want to get greedy, but I kind of want you to give us another Western at some point if you, if you could, Yeah, no, I have one. I've been working on it. Let's about ten hours long house. Uh do it please? Yeah, I'm gonna do it. It's it's really definitely. I loved Open Range.

I I I people talk about the final Gun Shooters being I've heard people say that they felt that that was the best gun shoot It felt shoot out, the sound design and all of that. And there's a line there too. I love this line. Um. It's when you and new vol are about to throw down there and you've got your chocolate in your pocket and you forgot about it, gets waited too long. He's like, oh, I guess I waited too long. But you say good is good melted or not? Yeah, good is good melted or not.

That's that line kills me because it's like, I love the genre so much because there's something about complexity and simplicity in the Western job and it comes in the language. You know, everybody's looking for the shootout for Westerns, and the strength of them is when what gets said leading up to things, you know, because there is an oddity

about how people talk. Yet it's our Shakespeare the American West, and uh, you know, I do watch a lot of Westerns, and I you know, I don't do them unless I think they can really really stand up um and and open range. I'm extremely proud of that movie. That was a Craig Stopper line. I needed a great job with that. Yeah, let's get that ten hour one man. You can do that for like TV. Or let's get that ten hour western going. Yeah, maybe I'll make three features out of it.

There's a fourth one too, So it's truly a saga. Could you do TV like h I couldn't do TV. I could also make it like every six months, have a big Western that's tied together, like Jean de Florette and Man in O the Springs, you know, where there's a continuum. I think those are fun to watch, you know, and later go revisit, especially for a guy who doesn't go to school. Who wants to see every bit? It's I'm actually actually talking to the right guy. All right,

let's get to what you're here to talk about. Let's that was a good sprint eighteen minutes through all those movies. I think I did pretty well hidden figures. Uh, you're playing Ah, I believe it's a fictional characters. But that said, were you able to talk to anyone to kind of help carve this out? And maybe well once that once, once it was going to become fictional is like, you know,

who do you talk to? You know that we we didn't have the rights to that character, and there was about three of them that Ted Mulvey was drawing off of. And so, um, I didn't really sit with sit with anyone because it was gonna be a combination of of of everything of what we were, you know, trying to do. It wasn't really my movie. I was there to support it, you know, um the idea and and so we figured out we figured out the best way to try to

do that. And we understood the personalities of the three men, but we couldn't turn them into one guy. And so you know, what we did was trying to understand that all this work on this movie, this personal story is set against a couple of big backdrops. Once the civil rights that was being you know, tested at every it has been tested since the beginning of this country, the

formation of it. But it was certainly going through an evolutionary period, revolutionary, evolutionary, whatever you want to call it, right at that moment, a little bit of the we're dealing with the apex of it, you know in a way.

Um and and and then you've got women's rights, uh in women in the workplace, and uh, you know, and this this this terrible racism that bleeds over into a corporate structure, you know, and with with a lot on the line, there was you know, we were behind and where we're gonna let these issues keep us, you know, from getting to where we needed to to be. You know, it's like a sports team, you know, it's like, oh, you're gonna keep your best player on the bench. Really, Yeah,

it's opening into an interesting climate. Obviously to know a lot of people who saw the movie like right after the election, and they were all the more emotional because of that. So, uh, speaking of which, I guess it would be interesting if swing vote had come out this year. Thank you. I had the really I think a really underrated little comedy. Uh the ensemble. You know, I asked you about the ensemble for JFK. You guys actually just want a prize yesterday from the National Board of Review

for Hidden Figures for the ensemble. What was that camaraderie like with this particular ensemble. Well, you know, for me, I I love the whole. You know, my part has to be good where I won't involve myself, um in my part. Actually, when I was approached on the film, wasn't I don't think very good? Um. I thought though the movie and what the girls were doing that was all really really beautiful. But you know the part that

I had was a little bit it was confused. It was a little bit you know, I was looking for more. I was looking for, um, it to be substantial, for it to prop up the moment, uh their moments and advanced the idea of the movie as opposed to just somebody who's kind of there, who's clapping, going, you know, come on, let's get it together. Um. So you know, for me, um that had to happen. Um I could I told him, look at this still will be a

really really good movie. But I think I think anybody can play this and and I think that that, you know, that's the way I look at it. And so I'm not it's not speaking to me. The movie is speaking to me, but not the part. And that's when he said, well, look, I've had a hard time putting that part together. I've concentrated so much on the girls, who's there's real story And he said, this other character, because I could never get the rights, has stalled me, and so there's like

placeholders here. I said, well, it reads a little bit like that. And he said, well, you know, can we work on it together? And I said, we can, but can you because once you start a movie, it's very difficult to go home and write at night. You're directing a movie for fourteen hours a day or whatever it is. You know, um you uh, it's like can you gonna are you gonna want to answer the phone in Atlanta

with a three hour time difference? And and us talk about this part when it's a supporting part, and that's what it is. And so you know a lot of times you say you can do that, but when it comes down to it, will you really do that? And Ted said, I will, it's worth it to me, and I thought to myself, well he answered, he answered that part right, But the proof is in how do you finish? Do you really do what you say you're gonna do? And Ted did because because let's face it, in this world,

sometimes people can say anything to get you involved. Once you're involved, it's like, well, I've just ran out of time. I'm sorry, that's not a great outcome. That's just a great salesman. And Ted was true, and I have no doubt he was tired. But I think at the end of the day, it was really worth it for the movie for Al Harrison to be where he was, so you know, we didn't have to do the classic um cutaway shot that shows the sign for NASA to know

where at NASA. We could go to my face and we knew that I stood for the Space program and that was probably you know, you know what I mean. You see television they show the apartment in New York and then you go inside, they show you the thing and it's the CIA headquarters and you're in the CIA, and they keep doing that to let you know where you're at. But if you if you develop enough presence enough, um, enough of a vocabulary about who you are that sometimes

you know you can just come to person. I don't have to say anything. You know where you're at and you know what's going on. Because the movie certainly had a home life and then had this technical world. Are you a big fan of NASA movies, like you know, Public the Teen? Yeah, I thought that was that was a really interesting movie for me because, um, I had a chance to be in that movie, but I was going to do water World and again kind of like a Dances with Wolves. It was like I was committed,

you know, so the idea. But what I thought Ron did, uh. And and the writer because it's a lot of this is the writing, you know, was that it was one of the times when I appreciated an ending that you already knew how it ended, it still felt very exciting. Absolutely, The Right Stuff is a movie I watch every Thanksgiving

for some reason. Absolutely, who did the music? I can't remember. Yeah, I'm probably screaming at us right now saying it's the personal and somebody's looking at you going I didn't do my own work. I but yeah, A huge fan of that movie. Uh. Trying to think of some more. I mean, it's just there's a certain it just gives you a lot of pride. Absolutely, there's a and there's an aesthetic to those movies too that I guess it's Americana or something like that. I remember reading the book. Yeah it

was Tom Wolf. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that with the whole passage in that book where he describes Chuck Yeager's that that last flight we see Chuck Yeager taking in the movie crashes. That whole passage in that book is phenomenal. If anyone's not read the book, you could read just that passage and just that guy was is the man? Uh? And you talked earlier about you know, getting off book, I mean talk about getting off book with an Aaron Sorkin script, and you're working with him now on Molly's Game? Uh,

how do you like working with Aaron? And it's about time he directs? And you know, again, I had to I had to go I need to go to and and and as that instance, that part was really perfect.

And I've I've been I've really enjoyed the in my career, I've had ten or twelve movies where we didn't really change a line, and that might be ten more than most people the way the way movies are, you know, manipulated and get halfway there and get the elements, and now we got a movie, and the director will fix it, or the actors will fix it, or somebody will fix it.

But well, you know it's there, you know, starting with Lawrence kast and and and then Ron Shelton and Fielded Dreams and you know, No Way Out was a script. We didn't manipulate any lines except the title. Um, and probably not Untouchables either on that particular. On that particular one man that really hit it perfect, you know, uh, and he really did so Fandango there was no change in line Silverado um and you go right down the line in certain instances. So um, I'm trying to think

of what the hell your question was. Working with Aaron, Aaron had wrote a pretty perfect script. In my mind, the character that I read was very unlike, for instance, a character I read and Hidden Figures where we did work on it, and Ted did deliver a great, nice supporting part of a really kind of Spencer Tracy just stand there and do your lines and support this idea.

And Aaron's was really beautiful, very intense, and as an actor, I went to work on it, you know, and uh, you know, I did the lines this morning in the mirror, and I won't go back till January and I'll just keep working them. That has to be fun dialogue to chew on whenever you're working. He's very he's very special. Well, the movie is hidden figures. It's in theaters, uh now when this podcast airs, So please go see it and thank you again for coming on the show. Man. I

hope I did all of that stuff justice. It was a sprint, but try edition something. Movies are things that that are obviously important to you, and so you know, sometimes it comes off as a job and other times comes off as a moment, you know, where you go, look, we could really have a chance to shoot the ship here about something that matters to you. And obviously the people that are following you that have a kind of a a similar appetite passion for the details that don't

get talked about on TV. They just can't. They're looking for the cute story about your kids, or how you fell down on the set, or what in the world it is. And you know, here, you know, we ate up that time like it was nothing. Thanks man, I really appreciate that. Thanks for listening everyone. Remember to subscribe and check back next week when I'll be talking to thirteen director Ava Duverney. You've been listening to playback at Variety two four