Welcome to Playback Variety podcast. I'm your host, Variety Awards Editor Chris Tappen. On today's show, we talked about nominations for the Golden Globes and Screen Actors Guild. A little bit later, I'll be talking to The Jungle Book director Jon Favreau. So stick around. All right, we're back and there's Janelle Riley. Hey, we're back again, Take back again. We just recorded for about ten minutes. At least ten minutes.
Maybe this would have been fine for people, but my level was not picking up the entire time, and we need to hear christ You would have just heard Janelle talking, would have been terribless in the room and looking up mementos screenplay on her and that my father never hugged me. None of you understand what we're talking about right now. Anyway, busy week yess Golden Globe nomination for AM on Monday too, Like, what's wrong with you? Do you? You seem to think
I have a choice. Mr Handsome over here doesn't want to go on TV, so they send me. And I don't know if you know this or not, how sick I was Monday? You said you booted right before you you went on booted, is that you're such a dad looked at you. Yes, I did happen to vo about about three minutes before we went live on the air.
So if anyone DVA yard that, well, what's funny is they have a camera on you in the like green room area, and so like they cut to us and be like, you know, coming up next, and I'm like waving to the camera, and then like when I realized I was going to be sick, the poor cameraman was, you know, just just just like covered the camera got out of my way. They were so gracious and everybody was so nice about it, because I would have been like,
oh my god, who is this person? And everybody was like telling me stories about when it happened to them or this one woman went into labor on the air, and it was they were very, very nice. So you puked right before you were going to talk about the Golden Globes, and it say something about your opinion the Hollywood Foreign Press Association. You know, Um, I have some
pretty harsh opinions about the Golden Globes. But then they go and they do some things right and it makes the hard internal animals mentioned very pleased to see a nocturnal animals doing well. Cologne worked out, but they had to send back right, didn't work out because tom Ford sent them all, collect them his and hers, and I think that they had to send one of them back. Oh, just one of them because everything is the limits. Yeah, I think it's like limit. If they were really serious
about this, they would not allow gifts at as. Of course that a simple solution, but why would you do that? But I was very happy um to say, well, you know, you know that I'm a huge fan of tom Ford cosmetics. So if you really want to bribe me some highbrowd pants all, maybe shul join the HFPO. I don't think he likes when I say that either, because like I'm always telling him how much I love his cosmetics, and he's like, that's not way I made the movie. It's
a terrible but he Yeah. So Aaron Taylor Johnson was the big surprise, very big because I'm surprise though. I think he's very good and it's really good. I showed my wife the toilet scene out of context the other day, which is top notch, probably my favorite part of the movie that I don't really like the movie, but that's right, cracks me up. I think we sat next to each other the first time you saw the movie and I was loving it, and you did not look as happy
as I was not as thrilled. But you know, Tom is a very uh unique director, and he got two nominations Director and screenplay. I think it's a great adaptation of a screenplay. I was really happy to see that because I'm actually reading Tony and Susan, the book it's based on, and you know, oh, I know right, No, Turnal Animals is so much better. But it's interesting when you read difficult Google search though, don't hit and come up with a lot of pictures of bats and stuff. Um,
you know. I also think A Rival is an excellent adaptation. I love reading, and I've just been reading the short Story, and I love when it's, you know, a solid short story or book and it builds on that but also becomes its own animal, so to speak. So those are two adaptations that have really impressed me. Deadpool Deadpool Best Comedy Best Picture nominee, which is a little bit further
than I would have taken that. I mean, I expected Ryan Reynolds for the star quality, and he is good in the movie, but like, I don't know, man, there's better comedies out there to pull, sure, but I'm just happy that they're actually nominating comedies. Yeah, that was a
big deal last year. Although look, they put out this language saying, you know, a comedy is a comedy, not a drama with comedic under tones, and it's like, look, guys, you were the ones that who decided that The Martian was a comedy, which, by the way, I never had a huge problem with. Well Joy wasn't really a comedy either. Yeah, so, and it still is still incumbent on them to decide
these things. They were competing in a categor and they won Jennifer Lawrence one actress, Matt Damon one actor, Martian one Best Picture, and they were competing against genuine comedy off rightfully, So, I mean, I remember when he said, you know, if if you put your movie in the comedy category, because you're game in the traumas, yeah, you're
gaming the system. And he wasn't wrong. Um. There was also, by the way that the Critics Choice Awards were last week, if you want to touch on that, it was a long show. It was a long show. Stanfield had his uh moment where he jumped up there when the guy was wanting for Silicon Valley, what one best picture I'll land obviously, you say, obviously, but I really thought Moonlight had a shot because it was critics. It was like
three of them though. I mean, I think it's one of those things where the broad not nominated for ensemble, Critics, Chice Awards not nominated. But why is it such a big deal today that it wasn't nominated? Well, because the last time the Best Picture winner was nominated for seg ensemble was We literally just had this conversation fifteen minutes ago. That's what's so funny was Braveheart, and we both agreed that Braveheart actually should have been reviewing our podcast that
we are tell the Gary story again. Let me let me set it up. The interesting thing about that, You know, I had Mel Gibson on the podcast a few weeks ago and yeah, oh yeah, right made its rounds and uh he I was just talking to him about the fact that Apul thirteen was so dominant there here. I mean, that was that is the weirdest Oscar year like in the modern context to me, because Paul thirteen one d G A sag P g A. You do not win
those three and and not win Best Picture. The only thing Braveheart one was a w g A. Really so brave Fart goes on a one Best Picture And obviously Ron Howard wasn't even nominated for Best Director, which is crazy. Uh. And then they were working on Ransom together at the time,
which is where your Garyson new story comes. Yes, I heard this on Mark Marin's podcast with Ron Howard it he said that, you know, they came in the day of the nominations and Gary Sneeze was shooting a scene and he asked Ron Howard for some direction and then said, wait, what the hell am I asking you for? Mel tell me how to do this scene? And everybody laughed and it kind of broke the ice. And and then six years later, five years whatever, uh, Ron Howard finally wins
Best Director for The Beautiful Mind. And guess who presented him that askar Gary? It would have been cool if it have been Gary would have been interesting. So there we go. That's interesting Oscar history for you. But anytime anyone throws these facts at me about how like La La Land can't win Best Picture because it doesn't have a sag ensemble nomb I remember, you know they said Argo couldn't win Best Picture because Ben Affleck didn't get a director nom and Birdman can't win because I didn't
get an editor nome. And you know, rules for these rules to be dismantled so people will stop bringing them up, and let's be honest. La La Land is a two hander, it is. But I do think it's like, you know, last year, Beast of No Nation was nominated literally three people or the nominees for that ensemble uh million Dollar Baby, I think there was four or five. So for a movie that's so beloved to not be just kind of
grandfathered in is a little odd. I did think it would get in just based on pure love and the fact that it's actors, you know, celebrating actors. But um, you know it's it's a really good year for ensembles. I mean, look at the ones that made it and those are like true, true ensembles, and so thrilled for Captain Fantastic and Vigo Mortensen's one of my favorite movies of the year. Um, really hoping that that carries over
into the Mascar. Love and Hidden Figures was a nominee, which I think is further indication that it's you know, we both think it's it's the strong best Best Picture possibility. I'm really holding out hope to Rogi p Henson and Kevin Costner. Can you crack into the race? Garage is the toughest one there? Yeah, I mean look at that category that I think that Emily Blunt is legitimate competition.
Although I feel a little bad for Emily Blond. Yeah, I mean she's every everyone after that, which is interesting in the movie performance, Yeah, it's a it's a bad movie. It's not a good movie. Um, it's a good performance. She you know, those screeners were out there early. Um, she's very charming. Like it's just such a crazy competitive category.
And when you have people like Isabelle who Pair and Annette Benning and Jessica Chastain and Rage p Henson and Ruth Nigga shut out of that one, you know, it does reason eyebrow to see someone who was like not in a great movie to but maybe she's susten to her. I mean, like it's ext be good in a good movie. I think there's been weirder nominations that last year. I thought Sarah Silverman and Helen Mirren for Women and Woman in Gold was weird. That was very weird. But it
reflects that early timeline, I mean really early. Their deadline was December eleven. You know, I almost put Captain Fantastic in my ensemble guesses because they always have a kind of out of left field saying horseshoes. You know, I don't. You don't get a pat on the bending close only counts and horseshoes and hand grenades. But I put it on Twitter, like there is evidence Twitter is forever. Yeah, tell that to Donald Trump. Let's not um what else
herschel was a three time nominee. Yes, he was figures in Moonlight ensembles as well as his own Moonlight nomination. And did you get a TV nomination for Anything or No House of Cards. I don't think got ensemble. No. I could be wrong about that. Um. But that leads us into Moonlight and Loving screenplays. Right, So the most recent news. As we both try to turn on the lights, Chris and I are sitting here in the darkness, it's
not registering us. We don't exist. Moonlight and I mean Moonlight and uh Loving were considered adapted screenplays by the Academy after the w g A considered them original, which is interesting. Um, and I think great news for Moonlight. I think it probably wins. Don't you just gonna want adapted now? Yeah? I mean it's the play was never staged or produced, so per the ling, previously material, previously published, reproduced,
it's not an adapted screenplay. But I think the Academy looks at these source materials a little closer and the script and it's like, okay, well this is we we consider this adapted. And with Loving it was the fact that there was a documentary, The Loving Story with one of the same producers that's on the feature. So you know, w g A said original. Academy says adapted adapted is a much thinner category than original. Issue is. I mean, there's some great adapted screenplays in there, but just not
the kind that usually win. I mean there are there are screenplays I love, like a Rival, which I you know, might have said was the front runner until now. Um, but you know it's a genre. Pack might have said a lion, Oh, lion, Lion. Yeah, it's pretty wonderful. I think it's good news for Matt Ross to get into original. Nothing would make me happier. And it's actually great news for law La Land in Manchester because now that's just the two of them. Yeah, I mean, I think that's
going to be Manchester. But he really just starts to pull him in, which it could. I mean, I do think there's a possibility that movie could win more Oscars since some dog. I gotta tell you, I think I'm leaning towards La La Land right now for screenplay totally. Yeah. And I have to say, like you know a lot of people will say, well, musicals never win screenplay, but it's like this is it's a different screenplay. Yeah, this is.
This has a very solid screenplay. There's no like sun through songs, like there's there's a good script in there. By the way, as it pertains to having your script swapped. Damien Chazelle has been there with Whiplash. Whiplash was based was was this is kind of silly? Yeah, totally. It was a scene from Whiplash that he filmed separately as a short short film and took the Sun Dance just to kind of like generate interest. And I think it's
funding me. Yeah. And it was considered by the w G a original and the Academy decided adapted, would it have one that wasn't that the year of Birdman? Uh? Yeah, yeah, so it probably wouldn't have one. It probably to better shots and adapted where it loss to interfation games. But I love that movie so much. I would have voted
for it wherever it went, if I could vote. But then I'm just kind of like I'm contradicting myself in a way because if the Academy would have looked at the source material quote unquote of Whiplash versus the feature, it would have seen that it was just a scene from the film. Because Sundance is an Academy whatever, a festival. That is why you know it was considered quote previously
published or produced. But it's it's stupid, This is stupid, Like this is so stupid, Like I'm just the fact that I'm sitting here having to beend myself in ance to explain it, like a screenplay is either adapted from something or it's not. Can we stop being stupid? So you think even if it's adapted from something that's never been published, it should be well if your if your language is based on material previously published or produced, and
the original material was not previously published or produced. If it was just some you know, manuscript and a desk, no, But if you want to remove that that specific language, then yeah, right. Because the example I always come back to his Memento. W g A considered it adapted because it was based on a shot are w g A. It was based on a short story Jonathan Nolan wrote but was never published anywhere, and Christopher Nolan adapted that into a screen play exactly and went into original lost
to Gosford Park. That hurts parks a great screen but it was like the greatest movie of all time, all time. It's amazing. I was in film school, so you can imagine. Yeah, I think I was too, and it's yeah, my my favorite movie of all time is either Memento or Raising Arizona. So that's how my tastes run. What else happened here when with SAG We've got I did not throw up this morning? Oh yes, maybe because they did the announcement at seven am and gave us a couple of stowers
of sleep. Yeah, we really gotta like stopped doing these nominations first thing in the morning. Someone is going to die, you know what I think they should do? Is with oscars anyway, they should have like a thirty minute prime time special on ABC that you would sell crazy edge and still make it to the morning shows in time and the morning shows the next day. If that's such a big deal. But who cares about the damn morning shows?
Like your news is going to get out there? You're Kelly Rippa, Yeah, come on, Like and if it was just probably it could be cool as this primetime thing like the NFL Draft or something like that, and just reveal the nomination steadily throughout the thing, and you know, god, mastards like us wouldn't have to be up early like hammering out this stuff as quickly as possible. Yeah, No, I swear it's not for self much reasons. I think it would be a good idea. No, I think it's
a good idea all around. And it's it's ridiculous that, you know, they're just stuck to the way it's always been. That's the way it's been. Uh what else? I've got the two versions of this that we recorded crashing in my head, so I don't I can't remember. I think that covers it this week. Let's just leave it. But next week we're gonna be kind of wrapping up the year in our own way. I think with top fives. Yes,
I'm going with top fives this year. I think that's a good And look, I think that like La La Land and Moonlight are probably gonna be on both of our lists, So I don't know, really interesting. I can't read your expression right now because we're sitting here in the dark, so we'll have to see. I watch Moonlight again the other day. By the way. Oh yeah, beautiful movie. Yeah it's it's a fantautiful movie. I've had La La
Land going. You know, I got the soundtrack, so I've been singing every my car every morning I wake up and I've got in my head. I don't it won't go away. Can we just agree? Um? You know they released the song eligible songs, and for me, the two best songs in La La Land aren't on that list. Uh, someone in the Crowd and Another Day of Sun Another Day. Yea yeah, I mean, look, the songs that aren't not in the Crowd is my favorite. Yes, that whole number is so just like that's the that is like, yeah,
is it should be on every list? And I think I tweeted this, but um, the song John Legend sing Start a Fire. It's supposed to sort of indicate that the selling out, and it's supposed to be a popular song, but god do I love it. It's a fun song song and it doesn't hurt that John Legend is singing it. And let's also just mentioned briefly since we're on the
topic of music. Scores came out this week and three of them were ineligible Manchester by the Sea, Arrival, and Silence with Arrival in particular, it's because of that use of the Max Richter song on the nature of daylight the book ends the movie that the branch felt that that would influence interpretation of the original material, which is obviously bullshit. But that branches like, they're so weird. Why did they hate Danny Alfman? Just give the man an
oscar already. Well, that's not up to them as to whether he gets an oscar. It's the whole Academy voting. But he hasn't gotten a lot of nominations, that's for sure. But yeah, so Arrival, you know, despite the fact that Johan Johansson's work is pretty great in that movie, he's what he does. No, he was nominated for Theory and Sicario. He won the bath to for theory, but no he didn't. I think he won the Oscar for theory. He didn't. It was I was on her this platform for Grant Budapest,
which one bath to an Oscar. But uh yeah, I mean he does really inventive stuff in Arrival and as part of this whole kind of movement that's blurring the line between music and sound design with film music, and it's kind of a slap yeah. I mean so with Manchester and Silence, it was just deemed that the original material was not quote substantial enough, so it was kind of minimal. And also Manchester had a lot of classical pieces throughout it as well. So you can't see me
right now, but I've fallen asleep. Heyward time baby everything And look I love scores, but let's be honest, La La Land is gonna win nothing now the batters, Yeah, probably all right. Well, this week Jon Favreau, John Favresma talk to me about Jungle Book and Lion King, which
he's working on. I was glad to get him in here because I uh, everybody has been like someone with a movie coming up, or with someone someone with a movie that's already out like, I haven't talked to anybody who had a movie like months ago, so I wanted to get him in here before that. I was watching him last night and one of my favorite movies of all time, I Love You Man. We talked about Swingers too, obviously, Sorry,
I Love You Man is a perfect movie. Swingers is too uses a great movie, but I really love I Love You Man. And it was fun to see j K. Simmons prior to his Oscar winning role. That's always fun seeing j K. Simmons with hair. And by the way, he's like whoa. But anyway, stay tuned for that. We'll be right back. I can't help but notice as the strange odor today, man is forbidden gay. The jungle is no longer safe for you? But is it my home? Only man can protect you now? Or sweet little Coke,
what are you doing so deep in the jungle? You are a man cla who wants to live in a jungle. How do you know that kid? I got ears, My ears got ears. Only I can protect you? Get about. That's a song about the good life here sing nothing TB has this boy. If anything happens to that kid, never forget leg help all right, welcome back everyone. I'm here with the director of the Jungle Book, Jon Favreau. Thanks for coming on the show Man pleasure. Really appreciate it.
As I was just saying, a lot of the folks that we've had lately have had movies on the horizon or in play already, but I wanted to make sure I got ahold of you. Your phone released in April, yes, and we didn't get around the launching the podcast till August. That's right. This was such a massive, amazing undertaking, and uh, I want to talk about that in a number of things,
thank you, honestly. So before we get into specifics on Jungle Book, uh, you know, between that, which I think is obviously a part of the ongoing revitalization of the Disney I P. I think it's also its own branch and it's going to kind of uh inspire different things within that realm. Between that and you know, essentially launching the Marvel Juggernaut with Iron Man eight years ago, You've made some massive and continue to make massive splashes and
these big business driving waters. It's look, it's been a lot of fun. I like the world building side of it, because you have all this technology available, and you have new ways to tell stories. So there's a lot of stories that couldn't have been told before the way they're told now. And when you know, as as as I like to watch movies, I'm a movie fan, so when I see somebody does something cool, your mind starts to
race with, well, what could you do? What kind of stories could you tell using these tools that these people have innovated. So Uh, in the case of Iron Man, you know, you really couldn't convincingly show a guy at flying like that in a in a tech driven way. You know that the technology really hadn't changed much up until that point since like Superman as far as how
you show a hero. And then all of a sudden, when you see what I. L M was doing with transformers and and with hard surfaces, you started to realize that you could do some really convincing work with c g I and character based c g I. And that's that's what I think made that the moment when Iron Man could work, and of course Robert Downey, uh, everybody ready to embrace him and the wonderful performance that he gave in the cast in general, and Marvel having its
strategy for how it was going to approach its I P in a way that honored the base fans, the core fans, and all of these these innovations came together, and then the building of the tone of that world in a way that extended to other, to other characters and other and other Marvel stories helped um make for a personality that people here like and equally or arguably
more importantly than people around the world liked. Because this is you know, if you're going to do films at that budget level, you can't just be making it for you know, your own backyard. It has to it has to travel well that those are the you know, that's
those the economics of the business. And with Disney, you know, I think at the time of doing Jungle Book, having seen things like Planet of the Apes and Avatar and U and actually Gravity, because of a lot of the innovative techniques that they used in melding CG with with practical photography, it became clear that there was an opportunity to tell a type of story that wouldn't have been told us elegantly with the technologies of just a few
years ago. So as a as a filmmaker and a bit of a movie geek where I love keeping up on the effects of those opportunities open up channels for for new types of property that traditionally hadn't been part of cinema. Well, when you were, you know, going to auditions, struggling as a younger actor, getting involved in the independent film movement, I mean sure, was it this the dream for you? Was this anything you had in mind? Look,
I loved it. I always loved reading Starlog magazine and and and knowing how they made Blade Runner, and you know, even as a kid loving Monster movies and the Harry House and stuff and makeup effects and so I love that stuff anyway. So to get to play with all those toys and work with the people who are you know, work with Stan Winston and see how they do it, and work with I LM and film miniatures and you know, all that stuff was was interesting. I wouldn't go as
far as to say that was my vision. I just wanted to, you know, just the fact that I could make a living acting was was amazing to me. And the idea that someday I could maybe right and direct, you know, and back then it wasn't really the independent film scene that was inspiring because it was kind of previous to it. The independent what would now be considered dependent was more mainstream, and the early career Woody Allen,
I guess would be independent film now. But you know, I grew up watching those movies and and thinking, you know, someday you could make something that's personal to you, that's also funny and entertaining and and could do well at the box office. So as you know with Swingers, with the writing of Swingers, that that happened on the heels of getting opportunities in My foot in the door through
my acting is primarily a supporting actor, character actor. You know, that opens up doors and and and honestly working with Marvel that door was opened up by me acting in in Daredevil, and that's when I'm at Aviarrod. So relationships form. You also get this wonderful perspective that you don't get when you enter directing from other avenues, which is you
get to be an apprentice. You get to be on set, you get to watch master directors do their thing, and you get to learn by absorbing it and by being immersed in movie culture and participating at it and asking questions, and they let you come to the editing room. David Onspa and Rudy let me come to his editing room. Um, Mimi leader, let me come to effects reviews on Deep Impact.
So I've been very fortunate to have very gracious and generous directors who were very happy to answer questions, and cinematographers and people from all departments and everybody in the crew and uh, and I love being on a set, even when I was doing background work living in Chicago, so just being on a movie set was exciting. And so as I've been able to climb that ladder, I understand the traditions of film culture and I and I still love being on a set. I still love walking
on the back lots to go to meetings. Um and I just I've never lost that thrill, kept the romance alive. I really have, I really have, and I and I am very excited to be in a position where I could actually innovate and and try to keep that tradition alive and keep you know, keep production in Los Angeles and and hire those crews and and figure out a way to meld innovations and technology with the traditions of filmmaking. When you first kind of started to wait out into directing. Uh,
you were working in TV. I think you did a couple of pilots. What did those early experiences do for you. What did you kind of hold on to that you still apply today. Well, I was, you know, I was. I think looking back, it's going back decades now, but on the heels of the success of Swingers, a lot of people wanted to hire me in television to write.
And what I would do instead of taking a deal, I would I would write spec scripts and I would go directly to networks and and I would get them to in And since I was specing it the amount of creative input and going through the development process of pilot season, especially back then, which could have been very invasive, I was able to, um avoid that and treat it more like you were making a movie. So I would
I would write pilot. I would get to film the pilot if they bought it, and always they would, you know, I would get different networks to pick it up, and and uh, you know, there's no assurance that's ever going to get to air, and and lo and behold, none of them ever did. But I did get to direct
my own work. Um and it was like doing a little movie with a real budget and a real you know, back then all of it was filming here, and I got to work with the cruise and I got to, you know, walk to my set and see trailers parked and and all the thrills that I would get when I was acting in a movie. Now it was my set, and I got to do a few of them, about three of them, and none of them got picked up. And all of them, I'm sure if I look back at them now that I'm sure there was a lot
of learning, a steep learning curve there. But by the time I actually did get onto a set that I was a director of, on the set of Made, I already had the experience and confidence to walk onto a set, and I feel like I was over my head. I had a lot of experience with a lower state then saying hey, this is a movie I'm putting out and and so that became my film school. I did learn because on On Deep Impact, Mimi Leader had, you know, she was being treated as as a new director, which
wasn't first time. I think it was your second film, but she had been directing episodic television for many, many years, and she had sharpened her her tools, and she had tremendous chops for for for a new director because she had, you know, much like previous generation she had, she had developed her skill set uh on the small screen, so that by the time she had the big screen, she was she was ready to go. And that wasn't lost on me seeing that because she was a very experienced
hand when she was directing. She was directing me. You mentioned Made, Yeah, you went off and did that next, And I love that movie so much. When Peter Falk explodes about his carpet cleaning Van, I just lose it every time. But I think, you know, when do we get like a closure to that trilogy that wants to be a trilogy? I don't know, you know, And look, it was so great. You never know what's going to
lead to what. And working on Rudy with with Vince was meeting him and then coming to town and having those events and Spire Swingers and then and then working on that one and Made, and then I you know, popped into a lot of the films that he was
putting together and he was producing. So we've you know, we've you know, spent our lifetime being fans of one another and uh, and like the good news and the bad news is that both of us have you know, are very busy and have a lot of opportunities, so it becomes harder to figure out at time to to get together and do that kind of thing. But you know,
I'm I'm. You know, there's there's nothing like when there's a musician that you play well with, and you know, like if you see two two jazz performers who were good and there's just something about our rhythms and styles that when we get on a set together and go
back and forth, it just as I enjoy it. We make each other laugh, We appreciate what he ch other does, and you know that was I kind of looked back on the days when we were we had you know, very little opportunity, and we spent a lot of time trying to figure out what to do and doing a
lot of work on it. Now we're both dads, and we're both you know, living in different parts of the city and and you know, working on different projects, so it becomes harder to schedule of those little passion projects. But but I I love catching up with the guy and and cheering him on for what he's able to do. I haven't yet, but I only heard wonderful things about it and wonderful things about his performance, and I look
forward to it. Um. You know, even though you're you work in these big kind of canvases lately, you still couldn't go back and do something like Chef And is that balance important to you to to still kind of
stick grounded with Chef. Chef was very important for me because Chef was an opportune I didn't know if I could write and direct and be in something, if if that was more of a young man's game, if I still had it in me, because you know, you have a lot of enthusiasm and hunger when you're younger and uh, and I hadn't done that really for a long time,
really since made so it's been a long time. And just to be inspired enough to write something that you felt connected to, and then to be able to enter into that chef world and work with Roy Choy the Chef who oversaw you know, the culinary aspects of that film, and to time with Coke the Cokey food truck, great guy and wonderful mentor, and then meeting all the people in the chef world. In the Chef the chefs like the movie, So now I'm part of that. I'm part
of that subculture as well. When I walk in, they often treat me like as though I'm almost one of them. And a lot of dishes I don't order come to my table, and uh, they always they always roll out the right carpet for me. And I like that. I like that group And I've learned a lot about directing
by working with chefs, because it's not that different. You know, you're you're you're bringing a vision that you were on a team of people to to bring to your audience or your customers, and so much of it about it is about consistency and quality control and and innovation, but ultimately it's about the end user being satisfied with what
you're doing. So even if you're on a tremendous creative jag and you're having a great time coming up with stuff, if if it doesn't land on in the right way on the audience and they don't, they don't appreciate the movie, they don't get the jokes. It's a it's a it's a bit of a hollow victory. It's not a it's not the creative processes is a is inexorably connected to the way it's received from me. For me, and and
and and chefs kind of feel the same way. They have strong visions, but if they if they don't finish what's on their plate, if a customer doesn't the diner doesn't like what you've done. Uh, it's it's depressing. You want them to not only you want to create something, but you want it to be received. That's that's the that's closes the full circle. And I found it interesting how how they approached that process. And I was able to take away a lot in my directing from from
having that experience. Do you want to do more writing, directing, starring kind of things going forward? I would, you know, But it doesn't hit me all the time. It's not like I could, you know. I'm not prolific in the sense that I could. You know. There's always a story in my head that I think people want to see. And my life has become so specific to the age that I am. I just turned fifty and I have kids. Um,
thank you good clean living. You're very kind. Uh, but um, you know, I just I would love to have that hit me. And to the point that I have a script in my head and I just want to just tear into it and write it like I did on Chef. But it's only happened to me a few times in my life and probably makes them more special then it does. It does, and you feel very grateful when it happens, because it's not like it's not like a switch you
could just throw on. Now, everything I do creatively, i'm very um you know, to me, it's also of fun. If I hadn't done Chef, I don't think I could have done jungle Book because Jungle Book was two to three years of intensive, concentrated, obsessive um filmmaking and and and learning the technical aspects of it and and being part of of a of a of a huge group of people who are working together to present the singular vision.
And so I was, and also working with the studio that that the property belonged to and that we're protective of of the tradition of of jungle buckets, one of their you know, you know, dates back to Walt Disney. It was his last, the last movie he was alive for.
You know, I always sweated, I always I always take I think that was a valuable lesson of of of being there as as Marvel launched, which is that the fans are important and it belongs to them, and and they'll let you know what they think, and if they like it, they will, you know, they will make your film is success. And they will proselytize for the film. And if they feel that you've let them down, they'll
voice their disappointment. And so that communication that goes on between the fans and the filmmakers and the studios is this is this cycle that you know, I first experienced in a real way with Comic Con as we as we premiered the footage of Iron Man, you know, about a year before it came out, and when we saw what that they liked what we were doing it, it it was like a gust of wind that you know, that that just we It just elevated us and motivated us, and we knew we were on the right path so
long before the film ever premiered. We had a sense that we were hitting the note right. The casting of Robert, the way we were depicting the effects of the flight, the character, Uh, they really they really embraced us. And I had a similar experience with Jungle Book when we at twenty three the first footage, and we knew that the people were digging that we were we were paying homage to the right aspects of it. We were respectful
of the material. So you want to you want to both give them what they want, but you want to surprise them too, And that's always the tricky thing. How do you how do you strike that balance when you're dealing with property that people are already familiar with and have a connection with, And the more emotional the connection is, the the you know, the more you know, the more you have to consider what what their expectations are and making sure that you're you're living up to what they
hope it will be. And I'm you know, getting ready to do Lying King and that one. You know, a lot of the people who are adults now grew up with that and it's a very and my favorite animated movie ever. Actually, I think you're not alone. I think there's a lot of people who because it's a it's a very powerful, simple, well told mythic story with emotional components that deal with subject matter that movies that are geared towards kids and families don't often deal with with.
You know, you're dealing with death, you're dealing with um, exile, you're dealing with you know, very deep strong family, family, the sense of family, of revenge, of injustice, and then just the whole stuff in Hamlet. It's it's it's that. Yeah, it's that and and and I think they really hit it just right. But the look and the music, of course, it's just just hearing the music just gives you goose bumps.
And um, it's one of those uh situations where it all came together, the art, the story, the studio, the music, the culture. You know, everybody was ready and it just happened and it and it means a lot to people, and so can we you know, there was you know, the theater production did very well after the movie did very well, and they were not seen as two different you know, they they shared u a spirit, but they were different interpretations. And and because the story I think
was so strong. And now now we'll see if we could do something that that gives it a live action feel, and if that could sit as not something that replaces either of them, but but builds upon that legacy and reinterprets it using a different medium and different set of tools.
That's kind of my question, which you know, Jungle Book distinguished itself from the original, and in interesting ways, there are the ideas flowing as to how to do that online King, do you I think with Lion King, you have a much um a much tighter story, and a much more emotional story their emotional aspects to the first up to the original Jungle Book, but you also have the source material of the kipling, and live action didn't lend itself to um doing a direct transfer of that story,
so we had to do some exploration while still hitting the musical and visual touchdones that people had that had been embedded in the memory from the childhoods. We wanted to honor that, but we had a lot of latitude. I think with Lyon King, you're dealing with something where people have grown up seeing it multiple times in the age of video, have felt strong connections to it and
feel very protective of it. And so I think with this and and and to be honest with you, the story it feels more modern and feels like it it holds up today. The original to D animation holds up exceptionally well so and so now it's not as distant of a memory. I think it is, you know, I think years old, but it's still again, it doesn't feel
like an old movie. And so you have to see what the tools have to offer, and you have to make sure that you're connecting with the audience and reminding them of everything that they love of the original, and but yet don't try to replace the original. Try to do something where it's an exploration in the technology of what it would feel like if this were actually happening in real life and live action, and that becomes the challenge.
And then then the casting. It can be kind of tricky because people have their preconceived what they're expecting to hear. Share characters sound like like you want to get Belafonte in there. Maybe your thoughts are you know, I think that casting is probably the most important element of any film, especially when you're dealing with something where people have such a clear idea of who those people are from having
seen other versions of it. And so we're you know, I'm in discussions with Disney now we're getting into that aspect of and I have some strong thoughts and strong ideas that unfortunately I can't really share because we haven't gone through the process yet. But I think that that's the that's kind of your first for for for the fans of the original, that's going to be the first opportunity for people to see what's the direction and tone
we're going. And I'm sure everybody's gonna have a lot to say about everything, and hopefully they'll be excited by was it Robert Gillum who you're talking about? Is man? Yeah, it's just such iconic voices. Yeah, but I look for Jones was So you know, it'll be uh, it'll be interesting. And it's also interesting to see how the the the the musical, which uh, you know, took a different perspective on a lot of it, and how that how that
can inform the process as well. Awesome And then and then actual you know, what what it all looks like in real life there which is you know, everything has been stylized for for the animated version of it and for the theater version of it. But with this you can really go back to a sense of of naturalism. And how could that help, uh, elevate the material as well?
What could what could the most you know, these very exciting compelling technical tools do to give give you know, greater resonance to the story speaking of all the technology. I mean, I gather that you're a big tech head about this kind of stuff. Become one you're down there shooting jungle but basically in a warehouse in downtown Los Angeles. I think that blows people's minds. You know, Uh, what do you think about virtual reality? Is that just involved
with that too. I'm working with a studio called weaver we It's something called Gnomes and Goblins that's available now for free on Steam um for the vibe. We had used a lot of the same tools in making Jungle Book, and to me that you know, the it's a reversal of the pipeline. Not to oversimplify things, but motion capture and virtual reality use a lot of the same tracking
tools and the same basic principles. And I actually was exposed to a virtual reality through Andy Jones, who is the head of animation on Jungle Book, who had been working on a There was an experience called the Blue
I don't know if you've ever seen it. You're on the deck of a ship and a big blue whale passes you buy and it's pretty overwhelming, and the technology has come so far that you're able to feel the phenomenon of of what's called presence, and it's a pretty accurate term because you really feel like you're experiencing something very real, even though you know, you know the resolution of it isn't as good as what you'd see in the movie theater, the graphic rendering is not photo real
or even close to it yet. But because of the lack of latency, how effective the three D is, the sense of parallax, All these things uh contribute accurate tracking, All of this contribute to something where parts of your brain are thoroughly convinced that you are experiencing something real. And so even though you know you're wearing HMD and you're not really standing on a cliff, you're hard pressed to take that step forward to where you would fall.
And so to me, it's a very powerful tool. How it's being used is still up for discovery because it's not quite a movie and it's not quite a game, and we're kind of exploring that middle ground that feels more akin to lucid dreaming. And I'm just trying to innovate things that I would want to do and see an experience I don't I don't like the stuff that's
too scary, But I do love the immersion. I love the emotional connection that you could feel two characters and your environment and and and ultimately each other through it. So it's a it's a very strong technology that I don't think is going away, and I think it's it's very exciting to be part of the generation that gets to create the parameters by which the future generations, you know,
innovate and tell stories through the technology. Yeah. My curiosity as if it can transcend short form, like is there really an authorship in long form in the realm of
virtual reality? And I'm not sure. I think eventually, I think, Look, it's always uh, any new technology goes through a cycle of growth, and um, you know, movies were nickelodeons and they were you know, carnival attractions at first, and spectacles and people would jump out of the way of locomotives coming at the audience, and and it was it was first seen as a as a novelty and then eventually a language developed, and then it went from one reelers
to two reelers to full features and everybody freaked out when the guys shot at the screen and that's part of you know, and if you think about it, you know, that's all one human ago. That's so it's a hundred years you know, century, give or take. So you know, so much has happened to change with it. And now and now there's you know, everything is overlapping with the big screen and the small screen and and and all of this stuff is traveling around to all different audiences
in different markets. So it's a there's definitely uh an evolution. That's that's in the works where technology is informing storytelling and and and and honestly, I really feel that and what I learned from really learning about Walt Disney is is that it's that marriage between technology and mythic solid traditional storytelling. When you can merge those two things, you really hit a grace note that was it with films like Avatar and Star Wars. And that's when you really
get it. When you have the the excitement and the spectacle of the of the new technologies that completely fool the audience um in the tradition of the magicians, and then you have these great time honored stories that are speaking to something that the mono myth, the shared um, the shared mythic stories that seems to be ingrained in us, either culturally or just in our DNA. There are certain types of stories that every culture uh sparks too, and when you can marry the two of them, it becomes
a way for us to come together. And I like the idea of watching something communally in the theater. But even when people are watching things at home, there's so much discussion on social media that you know, when Stranger Things was on, everybody was talking about it becomes a cultural reference, even though you may have only been watching it with your family. So the communal opportunities of technology as it speaks to storytelling, to me, it's really uh,
that's that's what what excites me. You mentioned Star Wars there. I feel like everyone keeps thinking they're gonna hear your name attached to one of these projects. Can we expect that? What I mean, what not that you would even tell me if I have? My dance card is kind of full right now. I'm a huge fan, and I you know, all the filmmakers who involved with it, I know, and I sometimes get little Sometimes they tell me a little more than they should. You probably know a lot more
than I do about what's going on. I still but I still want to be a fan. I don't want to I don't want to know. I don't want to see what's happening behind the curtain. I want to be there for to experience it. And one of the nice things about being on in the audience seat, I get a front row seat. You know, I know all the people, and I'm invited to see all the screenings and things and and but that's part of what made you know.
I was an usher in at the Archao Keats and flushing back when you know, Return of the Jedi was in theaters. So I still have that sense of wonder when it comes to that particular brand. And uh, I'm so excited by the casting, by the images that I've seen the trailers, and I even try not to watch the trailers, to be honest with you, because I know I'm gonna want to watch it. So why why you know?
And then why why steal from that experience? It's so rare that you get the experience that that we had grown up, where you know a little bit about a movie and you see it and then it all washes over you. Now through marketing and through all of the trailers and things. If you're curious about something, you can really learn a lot about it. You never really get that unadulterated first experience of seeing something. And I try
to I try to preserve that. You know, whether it's not watching, you know what's coming up next week on Game of Thrones, or if it's watching, you know a new trailer drops. But then sometimes I can't help myself, Like a Beauty and the Beast, Beauty and the Beast, I'm too curious about what they're doing, So I had to had to check that one out. The last thing I want to ask, and I just want to talk about Swingers end of the story. This year. I watched
it again a couple of nights ago. Um, I feel like there's this subset of nineties independent cinema speaking of my generation, how we responded to it. When I saw Swingers, that was the first movie where I thought I could just straight up make a movie. Yeah, like my my story is valid and and that's what's exciting about movies
like that. And I think something like Friday you could include in there, or I would say that I think I think Kevin I think Kevin Smith was was made us feel that way because clerks had been previous to that, and that was even more of an outsider story in Jersey Jersey black and White. You know, it was, you know,
very inexpensive, but a voice. And that's when you kind of realized that our generation could Our voice was interesting and it was before it was making a lot of dough like that voice eventually evolved into I think more mainstream comedies. So it actually didn't do very well in the theaters. I think I made five million dollars, but we all caught up to it on VHS. But we well caught up to it, you know what I mean.
And that's that was also a lesson of that moment, is that the movies that are appreciated or find an audience in the beginning, like Rudy didn't find an audience in the beginning, but everybody's seen it now and there's something about the significance of the staying power of the film and and how many times you could revisit it. And to me, that's the real thrill is when I still get here from people. Oh I broke up with my girlfriend and I was so depressed and I watched
a movie and helped me get through it. Or seeing how people are like introducing their kids to elf. Every year, you know, I'll see on on on Twitter, people will post a picture there their little kid who's just old enough to watch a movie, and this is what they choose to share with their kid, and they're just beaming, and you see a photograph. And and that was always like the dream on that one. And I think that there's a sense that when you're making these things, you
don't know if they're going to disappear. Certainly a lot of auteur type filmmakers are they're sitting alone in their room lonely. Certainly I was doing writing Swingers, not knowing if anybody would ever see it or it would ever get made. And how how big of a leap it is from that moment when you feel isolated and alone, and and writing is a very lonely process. Um it really comes down to, you know, unless you're working with a partner, but even then it's still it's still very isolating.
You're kind of working at a vacuum, hoping that eventually everybody will see this thing. And so it goes from extreme isolation to extreme such an extreme communal experience of feeling that connection with people who are connecting to how you felt and what you're sharing, what you thought was funny, what you felt was you know, inspiring, and and having taking that emotional ride together. And I think it feels
like a point of connection. So you know, if if you and I are fans of the same movie, we we feel in infinity for one another. And I think with social media now people are very um you know, part of part of their identity is what they like and what they what they choose to share and post. And and now you get to meet people that you might not live in the same town as if and if you both like playing a certain game or watching a certain movie. Now now you've developed a community that
wasn't really available when I was younger. And and you know, and and if you're the guy who likes Grsese movies and I'm a guy Likescrsesean movies, we could hang out and talk about that stuff. And you know, and that was sort of capturing the beginnings of that back when we're sitting around in the diner talking about what movies were fans of. And now you could do it on on such a grand scale. And uh, and but I'm glad, I'm glad it you know, it still means something to you.
And I'm glad that it's held up so long, so many years, because it felt very of the moment at the time. And I think it's it's a great story, great characters, but I think as a work of cinema too, it's kind of doesn't get its due because, you know, I just think of that final dance sequence. It's so charmingly lit, like it's a beautiful looking film. The grain and the lighting credit goes to goes to Doug Lyman, and he was a cinematographer and the cameraman and the
director on that movie. It was actually which was a night stock that was thirty five millimeter that was very sensitive, um, and we were able to shoot wide open with not a lot of lighting and uh and he, you know, he was able to in a very limited amount of time. We shot that less than a month, and we were
using short ends. So what you do is, you know, you could buy like a full mag, a thousand footer which would run like ten minutes, you know, and then and then and then what would happen is on a real movie, who would be using the big the big mags. They're little short ends left over and they'd wrap that up and sell it. So if we had a four hundred foot mag like a four minute minute mag, that
was crazy. We were using an aton, a very noisy, little French camera that it was tiny, so you could you can put the camera places that well, now you can with with digital, but back then you were dealing with If you were dealing with that with thirty five millimeter film, you're generally dealing with a big old you know, Panavision or airy. That was you know, it was heavy
and big and and blimped for sound. But he was able to do put the camera places where it felt a lot more natural, more documentary style, and uh, and we may do with what we had, and it was it was exciting and and we didn't know if anybody would like it. It wasn't accepted into the festivals we had submitted and and then eventually people bid on it and you know, the audience saw it, sparked to it. Mirramax bought it, and then then we started going to festivals.
I Tell your Ride and Venice and that was a thrill to take that ride and be a part of the independent film culture and understand that and get to experience that aspect of of our tradition, which is very
different from how it is now. But I've i've I've been at it long enough to have been an editing room with people cutting on a flatbed with film, and been on sets where you know, it was just everything was was analog and celluloid, and then work my way through to seeing the beginnings of the genesis and the beginnings of digital, and then and then seeing where it's going now and as you mentioned, virtual reality and the level of visual effects that we have available to us,
and the this this influx of all these talented artists and animators that are being trained by working either facilities or going to school for it, coming and people from all around the world, because it takes hundreds and hundreds of artists to make a movie like Jungle Book. And to be able to work with those talented people and and figure out what combination not just of cast or department heads, but also artists and and all the support
people who are both technical and artistic. It's exciting. It feels like I'm I'm part of something that's new and growing and offers all sorts of opportunities for as I said before, telling the types of stories that you weren't able to do in a convincing way not long ago. It's a fantastic career so far behind. Thank you man, and I look forward to Lion King. I'm very optimistic for that and thank you. And also I got to act in a in in a Spider Man, so that was that was a blast too. So I get to do.
You know, I'm very fortunate it, you know, I'm I'm so grateful to be able to still go to other people's sets and play and sit in my chair and eCraft service and do a couple of funny takes and work with people that I like working with, and so it's really been. It's it's it's so nice to be able to have that variety. There we go, but I'm bumped. There we go. On that note, thank you sir again for coming on the show. Really a prech and good luck going for talking and thanks listening to your podcast.
Thanks man, you know it's been going great. Keep up a good work. Thanks for listening everyone. Remember to subscribe and check back next week when I'll be talking defenses Star Viola Davis. You've been listening to playback at Variety