Ep08 - Mel Gibson / "Hacksaw Ridge"

I'm not Janelle first name, Deputy Awards and Features Editor, Queen of all the Fish in the Ocean, and smiling Janelle Riley, I am smiling on a Monday. That's weird. Smiling Janelle. Yes, so Moonlight, oh so happy? Crushed it at the box office release. What were the numbers? Did you have those pulled up? I did one second ago. Um, it was basically four Street and fourteen thousand, seven hundred and forty opening weekend in four theaters for a per

location average of a hundred and three six hundred seventy five. Man, I think people like us deserve some credit for that. Oh yeah, I mean, come on, we're sitting here talking about these movies since tell you right now much we love them and the people that go out to see these movies and you know when they're on four screens or like the film intelligencia community, right, you know, I had a lot of it were clearly dying to see

the movie. Yeah. I had a lot of people come up to me this weekend and just ask if i'd well, funny they ask if I've seen Moonlight, and then they just tell me, you know, they saw it. It's the most beautiful movie they've ever seen, like just repsodic about it. It's it's it's really awesome. Every time someone asked me this year, what's the best thing you've seen, I instinctively say Moonlight, really and it's and then I don't go on to talk about it for a long time. I

haven't even written about it since. Tell you right, It's one of those things that's such an absolute It's like, look, it's an amazing film, Like, yeah, factually, what can you argue with that? What could I add to this equation? I think Ao Scott's review and the New York Times actually was beautiful and he headlined it is this the best movie of the year. And I saw the headline in other places too. I mean, it's kind of just like, you know, it's funny because I do this movie no

service when people ask me what it's about. I was actually at a Q and A the other night for Moonlight, and the bartender was asking me beforehand, oh, I've heard about this movie, like what is it about? And I tried to explain it, and halfway through I was like, A, I'm terrible at elevator pitches and be I am not helping this movie by trying to describe it. Just go see it. But Merschel Ali actually said when someone sent it to him, they said it's the Black broke Back Mountain,

which I don't think is really accurate. But if it gets p weill to see it. Yeah, if that helps. I mean it's certainly reductive. I think the best thing to say is it's like, it's what it's about. It's about a black youth who comes from a troubled home who uh learns to just come to terms with his budding homosexuality. And when anyone sees this film, they will be able to relate to it. That's a crazy thing. That my next trademark. It's it's about looking for a connection.

It's about there's just no way to go to this movie and not feel what the artist behind the movie is trying to convey. And Barry Jenkins is a genius. I mean, I've never seen Medicine from Melencholi and neither I'm embarrassed to say, because apparently everyone loved this movie

and I've never even heard of it. I was at an art house theater last night and there were all these um post it weirdly doing a Q and A for Arrival, and uh, there were all these posters out for movies I've never heard of, and I mean, I think we're fairly well informed. Were these like asylum movies, like transmorphor legitimate movies? One of them had Vincent Cassell in it. I was like, wait, Vincy Cassell, is he the one who's married to Monica Bellucci. Yes, I'm thinking

Vincent Cassell and see more. Cassell confused smour Cassell was married to Monica Blushi. Good, good jobs, not that you have Vincence the one. But you know, speaking of Arrival, it's it's I'm so happy Moonlight is out because I can talk to people about it. Arrival is another movie that I absolutely loved, but I feel like difficult to talk. Yeah, you can't we've already upset some people or I have

on this podcast for that's right. Yeah, I got yelled at at a screening because they felt you spoiled something. Yeah yeah, I was like, I will pass that punch, Chris. Yeah, So go see Moonlight whenever it finally, I don't know what it's released them, but fourth it goes wide. I don't know how wide, but but it is the biggest per screen average of the year so far. That's great. Yeah, no, very happy. That's good news for people like Barry making,

you know, movies that aren't immediately financed in this war. Yeah, like and really a cast of mostly unknown or unproven um you know Mershel Ali and Andre Holland and Naomi Harris have. You know, they've definitely been around and they're well respected. But do they get a movie greenlit when the central character is played by three people, No one's ever really right and all fantastic. In fact, Trevante Rhodes, who plays the older version of the character, used to

be a waiter. Like a film filmmaker friend I know was like you really think this Trevante Rhodes guys like a supporting actor possibility, and like he deserves to be in the conversation and this guy says he used to serve me drinks like restaurant. I hope. Honestly, the whole supporting actor category I feel like could be filled with

actors from Moon might Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, well, let's let's jump over the next topic to, you know, speaking of supporting, I guess I have a little bit of egg on my face since is now officially going supporting. But I think it's just a symptom of the fact that they they were at ends at odds with each other internally, I think for a while on the offences

as to where she would go. It's also hard to talk about because we haven't seen the film, and I feel like a lot of people are rushing to judgment and assuming it's category fraud, whereas I don't know if you've seen the play, but I haven't seen it. Yeah, in the play, it's a supporting role, and I feel like, hey, you know, let's see the movie. It might be a supporting role. I know she's Viola Davis, but you know,

the play really kind of is the Denzel Washington character story. Well, if anyone has a complaint, they can direct it to Miss Davis. It was her decision. I finally saw the film last week and she said, look, I think that, um my role is in support of the other characters.

That was her take. I mean, if you want to be cynical and say there's an gaming of things going on or trying to find an angle on things, because obviously it seems clear that she's going to be a dominant possibility to win and support, she would be an either category. I feel. I agree, Yeah, so you know, we'll see. But like I I can't wait to see the film, and she has made a lot of women's day by eating that lead category. I mean, for me, I had Ruth Negga on the outside. Yeah, definitely, and

now she's coming. Now she has a path to a nomination. I mean, because who are locks are? Emma Stone, um, Natalie Portman and a net betting and then there's a lot of amazing women. You know, I'm a big fan of Amy Adams and Arrival, Ruth Nega Isabelle who pair, We'll see how Taragi is. Haven't even seen Hidden figures.

Meryl is pretty strong personally, yes, Meryl um I was a big fan of Susan Sarandon in the Meddler movie came out probably too long ago, but you know, great matter the category Actually before I feel like, because I'm having deja vu Sally Field, there's a perforce, so it's nice that you know there'll be a Spetisica, Chess Dane and Miss Loan. I mean, it's it's insane this category. The people who are on the bubble. What do you think about Jessica and Misslan? I really are we let's

talk about it. I don't know if there's an embarkment. I haven't been told, so let's just talk. Okay. Well, I actually really liked miss Loan, you know, and most people I talked to her like yeah, you know, it's it's good. It's kind of like sark and esque, and I'm like, I know, that's awesome. I kind of I compare it to Michael Clayton sometimes, just just in terms of structure and the general trajectory of the main character. Yeah, no,

I was. I was with it the whole time. And the funny thing, I don't want to make anyone think that the movie is all about a twist, because it's not. But like the bet, when there's a twist in a movie, the best ones are, oh, I should have seen that coming, you know. And that's why I like, there are certain movies that, like, you know, are predicated on a twist and you're like, yeah, that was pretty obvious. Some of

them in theaters right now. But like something happened in miss Loan that like, and it's not what the movie is about. So I don't want to say, like, go see this movie because there's a big twist, but it's so clever and I just thought the dialogue crackled. I

thought Jessica was fantastic. I really liked this movie. I don't I don't know how it all play, but I think it'll play well for her, just because we've never seen her, even in Zero Dark thirty, we haven't seen her play this kind of a role, like really strong willed shark of a person. She's a lobbyist, and h it's yeah, she's she's great in the movie. John Madden directed the film, by the way, um, and I feel like like I personally haven't really seen a movie about

a lobbyist before. Well, it's got to be a hard thing to make entertaining, and they your way in is through an interesting character, and I think that's what they have here, So she's going to be a possibility in the lead actor. Yeah, I would love to see her get in. We'll see how that shakes out. Um, by the time, um, you know this is all decided, hopefully there will be an Oscar house. Yes, look at Jael with the segus. Thank you, thank you very much. Hopefully,

I mean we apparently there an announcement is imminent. We're recording this on Monday, so maybe by the time this runs on Thursday. Uh, they'll have producers lined up. But Janelle and I want to just chew on some some host possibilities. Can we just say, like, I just hope they don't return to the Billy Crystal well, yeah, I mean he was a great Hosts, but like, let's that's

its own era. Time to move. It was great when he came in and saved the day, you know whenever they was that the Eddie Murphy year, Yes, I think it was. He came in saved the day and that was nice. But like, I need some new blood and not well in Hathaway James Franklin, which was clearly we need new blood unless Hugh Jackman is available, unless Hugh jack woke. Yeah, he counts his new blood because he probably such a fresh He's a showman from top to bottom.

It's the only Oscars that I actually own a DVD of thecar have them internally. I got them, that is through Bill Condon actually directly let me just sorry, sorry, sorry. That was the reason that show was so great was Bill Condon and Lawrence Mark where the producers musicals. He's a showman, he also is a movie guy, and so he knew how to translate the idea of a movie

into the show. And so you started with like the design elements and then you moved on into you know, script, which was interesting because that year they had the script. I think the scripts were announced first or like early in the show, because the idea was, this is we're going to take you through the making of a movie. So you start with the script, go to design elements. I just thought, have a great idea, what's that Harvey Weinstein should produce it? And let me tell you why.

I wish you guys gonna see Christmas face just now. It was if you had water would have been spittake. Did you see the Stronger Together show where where Broadway got together and did a fundraiser for Hillary. It was excellent and it did produce that I believe, so Yeah, and you know, and who knows movies better than Harvey Weinstein. Yeah, everything would be a clip package of Weinstein movies. Yeah, it would just be all about Lyon probably, which actually

I'm okay with. Yeah, great movie, you know, I love me some Lyon Huge, Iman would be great. I've always thought Kevin Spacey would be a really good host. He's just kind of got the showman thing about him. Yeah, he does too. Theater background. Once again, I mentioned Russell Crowe. I love that idea. I've been thinking about it more. And Mark, you should just have a drink in his hand all the time. It's kind of surly, you know. Alec Baldwin and Steve Mark and I thought the year

they hosted, we're pretty great. And if we could ever get Eddie Murphy to maybe be into it again, that'd be great. Well, you know, he's I don't he doesn't really campaign, but he sort of put himself out there this year for Mr. Church, which was a movie that I actually liked. Um. I mean, look it's you know, it's it's not a great movie, but like it reminds you what a good actor he is. And yeah, I would love it if he would host. Some people have

talked about Kevin Hart in the past. I don't know if it was just because he was kind of the it thing at the time. What do you think about him? You know, I have a weird like, you know, I go see every Kevin Hart movie. I well, it's weird because I don't know why. Like I wouldn't call myself a fan, but there is something infectious about him, you know, And so I I just I just like seeing him on screen, Like it would be okay with him hosting. Sure,

why not? You know, he'd be great. The Rock, Oh my god, The Rock is He sings in Moana, so he's able to sing. Maybe he would work out. The Rock is one of the greatest Saturdayight Live hosts ever, so let him do it. I sometimes feel like they use Saturday Night Live as a place to vet hosts because the year James Franco and Anne Hathaway hosted, they had both done really well on Saturday Night Live. Yeah that's true. Yeah, and look how that turned out to Tom. Yeah,

Tom Hanks just hosted last week. He should Tom Hanks would be awesome Oscar host, But would it be a conflict of interest since he might win. Bastranco had twenty seven hours out there. Yeah, but he wasn't winning. Yeah, but I don't think Tom Hanks is winning. You don't know for some more. The more this season goes on, the more I think Tom Hanks could win. Wow. No, I don't think that at all. But you know, do

you think he's getting nominated? Not at the moment? Really you think there are five Best Actor potentials that were stronger than him. What do we have? We have Casey, Casey's the Lock, Denzel Um, Andrew Garfield. I'm I've gotten there for Silence at the moment that I'd love to see him nominated for hacks our Ridge. I'm pulling up my predictions. Joel Ledgerton. I don't have Joel in there. You don't Um obviously, Ryan Gosling, Ryan Gosling I have in there. But I do feel like he could fall out.

Just we've talked about it before. It's the kind of role that can be thankless. Um, here we go. McConaughey and Gold. Mcconaughan, Gold, Yes, it just seems like a fun performance that's possible, you know. Uh, Jenneal's being very quiet right now about gold. I know, but I don't want anyone to read anything into that. I think Matthew McConney is definitely a contender for gold. That's all I

can say. Awesome. Yeah, he looks like he's having a blast, and I think people would enjoy having him back on the circuit. Maybe they're not part of Uh this is a second reconnaissance. Yeah, the mcconnaissance the WiFi and here is amazing. So I'm not pulling up my predictions, but yeah, those are the five I have. And I mean, I guess Tom could get in. I mean, look, they're gonna but there's also an athlete coming down the pike, Benn the older Uh, you know, so we'll see how I

lived by night is um. Look, by the way, I don't know what I can say about rules don't apply. I'm pretty sure the embargo doesn't apply to podcasts. Embargo doesn't apply, So embargo doesn't apply. But I think Warren Beatty was pretty good in the movie for lead actor. Yeah, I think it's a lead now, you know. Warren Beatty is such a good actor. Can I like bad trek record? On lead versus supporting this year, but I think he's

a lead in this movie. He um in Bugsy was one of my favorite performances, and I know that year it was all about his directing, but I it just reminded me what a great actor he is. That year was all about jfk in my opinion, was it? Yeah, and the Beast you got a better memory than I do. The science of the lamps Wow, speaking of you know, we talked about that last week screen time as it pertains to category placement. But we'll see what the Academy decides if they've did you ever get an answer to

your question? You asked if someone has ever won the Tony and he's the only one hoarding or featured as they call it, was featured in the Tonys. It was the ra was called the King, and I I think there was there's something that people were talking about. I didn't get into it, but there was something about the rules back then we're different. Well, it's interesting because I thought that Joel Gray one for lead actor in a

musical the Tony and then went to supporting. But but it was supporting at the Tony's when Alan Cumming won in the lead category when they did the revival and then as we know, Mary Alice won supporting for Fences and then viol the one lead for the revival. Yeah, and uh, potentially we'll join just youal Brenner as the only two. That's kind of interesting history, I guess. Yeah. I'm just shocked that Youl Brenn, who was a featured actor for The King and I did you see it?

My mom took me to see The King and I and I counted the screen time. Maybe it felt that way. So do you have on the podcast? This week? We have Mel Gibson. Mel Gibson and we have a great chat. I think we talked about hecks all Ridge a couple of times. Such a great movie. Yeah, and more and more people are seeing that and like they were skeptical when I said that how much I adored it, And they're coming up and they're like, that is a great movie.

And by the way, UM, I don't want to out anybody, but a couple of people here at work, we're very split on Vince Vaughn. A couple of people feel the way you feel, and then a few people feel the way I feel, which is that Vince Vaughn is great in this movie. Well, this is the thing, like, I don't it's not like I want to look away. It's just way not what I'm expecting in the moment. So

I'm just like, I'm looking at casting against type. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and you know, I'm just looking at your money baby the whole time. Which, by the way, Swingers just celebrated a tenth anniversary get out. I mean, oh god Jesus, yeah, you're making me feel young for a second. That's one of my favorite movies. Made me realize you can just go make a movie. Yeah, and how I mean I love that Jon Favreau, what that career has turned out

to be. He had the script in his trunk of his car for like just months, and he just showed it to a friend at a party and off it went. That's so great. But in any case, stick around for mel Gibson. Right after this, I was dreamed about being a doctor. But don't get my school. I can't stay here all them go fight for me. What you figured this war is just going to fit in with your ideas. While everybody else has taken life, I'm gonna be saving it.

That's gonna be my way to serve it. This is a personal gift from the United States government because I don't bring death to the end of it. Well, I'm sorry, sorry, I can't touch a gun. She don't kill, No, you don't. Quite a bit of killing does occur in war. Private Dogs does not believe in violence. You'll not look to him to save you on the battlefield. I don't think this is a question of religion. I think this is callous because you weren't like anyone else. You're saying you

could go to prison. I don't know. I'm going to live on myself. I'll stay trived of what I believe. Like the world so set on tearing itself apart. Don't seem like such a bad thing to me to want to put a little bit of it back together. Welcome back everyone. I'm here with the director of hexs all Ridge, and he's many other things. Obviously he's an icon and we're very happy he's here. Thank you. Mel Gibson coming onto my show. Well, I'm glad to be here. We

were just talking. This is your first podcast, do you think I think it is? I you know, I've got a shocking memory, so maybe I've done one before, but I think I'm pretty sure this is my premiere. Wow. Well thanks man. Uh it's been ten years since you're in the director's chair, and uh, I think listeners know, I feel like I've come up with some reason to mention Apocalypto on a number of episodes so far. I'm

a big fan of the movie. So, uh, I'm just curious creative creatively for you in that time, do the ideas just start to stack up and you're eager to get there again or are you not really in that headspace over that period of time. Well, that period of time, no, I wasn't that headspace, but it's you know, something like uh you know, for example, well, Braveheart was easier because, um, you know, I was more of a kind of a hot box office ticket at that stage, so it was

easier to get that made. But um, something like The Passion and Apocalypto, nobody wants to make those films, so you really have to kind of reach in your own pocket to do it. And U and of course you know then they paid dividends, but it's hard for other people to see that. Um, and the stuff that I wanted to do were like those, Um, you know, I had a thing I wrote about Vikings and some other stuff i'd written, you know, about the fifteenth century in

Europe and some other stuff. And I guess my vision isn't automatically, you know, a great thing for for other people. So and uh, I wasn't reaching into my own pocket this time, because that has that has just some downside to some potential downside. You know, you can end up in the pauper's bank. So you feel the pressure then when whenever that yeah, and and so you know, in the absence of my doing it myself, which I had done the two previous times, no one else was going

to step in. So I guess a lot of stuff didn't happen. But you know, I kept busy with other things. I wrote a film and produced the film that time, and then I was in a couple of other films. So you know, it's uh, you know, you stay busy kind of try and keep keep the rust from building up. Although you know, I had to blow the cylinders out on this one. I think it was. But it was great to get back in the chair. And it's like riding a bike, um, except for now you know, ten

years later. Um, the budgetary limitations and and and the time limitations are the challenges are greater in that regard. So you have to um go in and be far more judicious uh with your direction and how you shoot and what you shoot. Um and if you can edit the screenplay before you get going, and you know you one has to be you know, a lot more frugal in in the way one works and trying not to, you know, strangle your creativity for the sake of expedients

and uh and the interests of saving money. But you know, it's not the same industry as it was. If you're not making a superhero movie about somebody in spandex, nobody gives you a budget, you know. So we we did a lot on this for not so much. Yeah, and and it's it's one of those movies. It looks like it costs more than it did. It probably costs, so that's always good. It looks like it cost a hundreds of mill it really does. Uh. This story, Desmond Daws's

story is extraordinary. We had Andrew on the show last week talking about it. Were you aware of it at all before the project kind of came to you? I had heard of Desmond DAWs, but not in a way that I delved into. The project came my way three times like Caesar with the Crown, you know, and uh I I rejected um being the director of it twice over the last maybe ten years, and finally it kind of came again. I looked at it, and sometimes you know, it's just you're in the right headspace the right time

I read it. I was incredibly moved by it, and I thought, I think I can add my skills to this and and tell this story. Um, and so off we went off to the races. Uh it's Desmond Is And that's when I really found out about this character, and he was something. He's amazing. Yeah, I mean wow,

not too many like him. Yeah, absolutely. And the story the film, I feel it shares DNA with a number of your films, which is it kind of deals with this idea of hardship of faith in a way, how difficult it can be to maintain one's faith in the face of adversity. And I'm just curious, not to like put you on the couch or anything, but beyond just like you know, the Catholic upbringing. Do you think there's any reason that these themes you keep coming back to

them in your work. Well, you know, and I tell you probably hit on something there. I mean I was always taught, um, from when I was very young, that some thing's ideas or some things were more important than life. So you know a lot of these characters um in films that I've shown, they actually have that attitude. And

Desmond was one of those guys. I mean, you know, through filial love he wouldn't touch a weapon, but also through filial love he wanted to serve and he went beyond that in the ultimate sort of active of love is to you know, lay your life on the line for somebody else. And I think, uh, there's very few people who can actually, you know, do that and maintain their equilibrium. I mean, you have an ordinary man doing

extraordinary things in incredibly different, difficult, difficult circumstances. And I think there's very few people that can maintain their their higher self, uh and maintain that equilibrium and inter calm um. When everything around you is telling you to become an animal and everyone you know, you get down to the

level of an animal. It's just primal. And this guy went into that and uh with armed with nothing but his faith, and did the most extraordinary things Um, this to me is like and it's true story, so it's like it's not I'm not faking anything or making it up.

I mean, it's astounding to me. Um. And I think that you know, as storytellers, were exploring stories, hero stories to inspire others and to give us some kind of indication of who we might be, what we're capable of, what at least some members of our race are capable of, and maybe you know we can we can take something from that. I know Desmond was the first man to receive the Congressional Medal of Honor um and he was

a conscientious subjector. But actually I think he inspired many because there have been more of those guys since who go into bad without a weapon, who are medics and they just do extraordinary things and it's generally a kind of a a strong faith and conviction that they have. Yeah, And regarding the primal nature, I think Andrew called it the messy human nous kind of working through that, And it's fascinating that you come back to that in your work.

You're attracted to making that kind of art? Are you attracted to that kind of art? Like, for instance, what I kind of looked around to see if I could find anything. But what are your favorite films? Do they tend to have this kind of a theme. Oh my god, I have so many favorite films, everything from you know, see what I mean. I like Scorcesese films, I like, you know, copple As films, and like I like old classics and Westerns and war films. Oh my god, what's

the favorite Western? Favorite Western? I think was something called a Big Country, which I'm a huge fan of the genre. So yeah, yeah, it's a it's a that's a good Western. And um, you know, of course the Godfather films. You know, how can you not dig those movies? The just the sheer artistry and the naturalism, and you know, it was it was the seventies. Man, it was like they're so cool. Um, is there any hope for getting back because we talked, we touched on this just where the business is now.

Is there any hope for getting back to that kind of a mentality? Oh? I think so. I mean one of the best compliments I received when people watched Hacksaw Ridge, they went, Wow, it's like the way they used to make films, And I said, you mean, like back in the forties. He says no, like back in the eighties, you know, and like it's ancient history. Yeah, like it's ancient history because I guess, um, you know, the character of the of of you know, feature film business has changed. Um,

you know, it's like chain food restaurants or something. So, you know, but I believe that I believe that if something's good, it's gonna resonate. Um, it's just gonna have a harder time being heard because it's it's not an They get obliterated by the by the marketing budgets. I mean, nobody has any nobody's got enough nerve to sort of put the money where the mouth is, you know, unless

it's unless the guys wearing spandex. So people often go to, uh to Braveheart, but uh, you know, maybe they forget that your directorial debut was a few years before that Man Without a Face, which is from I like a lot. Uh it was. I remember it was one of those movies that was on HBO like every weekend when I was growing up, so I saw it so many times.

When you first got behind the camera to direct, was it like a like, you know, a bucket of cold water to the face or were you very prepared and ready to take it in stride, and I was not prepared. I think, Um, I just well, I kind of had an idea of what was required, simply from being around the Hub for so many years and watching how the directors who I admired kind of step in and do it. But when I was about to get going, I was terrified.

I remember calling. I bumped into Peter Weir and I said, man, I'm scared, and he said you should be stopped. Don't say that. A yea, thanks Pale and uh and he said no, and he said don't worry. He said, all you gotta say is action and cut and of course that's not true, but he was just trying to make me feel better. And then um, and I also called Cleant Eastwood, I remember at the time who he just directed Unforgiven, which I liked very much, And I called

him and I said, hey, Clean, I'm scared. You know that. I called the tall one and he said, don't be scared. And I'm like, why why? And he said, there's a bunch of subliminal ship in your head and you're gonna remember when you need to. I said, thanks Clean. He said, don't mention it you click, you know, was that he was he was very cool and um was he right? Yeah? A lot of stuff just came out. Not that I

didn't need some. There was a few good learning experiences that I read had to get onto, but I found I learned as I went. I mean, we had a really good, uh director of photography who is like an old drill sergeant, a guy called Don McAlpine who was like phenomenal and he was like, um, you know where I was deficient in my dayrectorial experience, he'd been there and done everything, and uh so it was like it was great to have a guy like that. I think

dud I believe he did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty good. I mean he's he's and he's shot a man without a face and was like you know, and would take my ideas and go, yeah, let's try that. Because he's he's just he's youthful. He still is. I saw him not so long ago and he's not a youngster, but he's still like a kid. He's got that youthful enthusiasm. Like a lot of the Aussie um directors off it's the film guys, the camera guys. They maintained their childlike

enthusiasm from what it is that they do. Like Dean Samler, I mean the guy is amazing. Yeah, he's like a big kid. Yeah absolutely, And uh you went, you went on to work with John Tole the next time with Hole is amazing. Yeah, Toll is like amazing. He just shot Angle's war film he did. Have you seen that yet? I haven't seen it. No, Yeah, very curious because I'm a big fan of tolls work. So yeah, he's not amazing. Man.

I just remember John, I think, had done his first director of photography job on Legends of the Fall and uh, I went into an editing room just to look at his work on that, and I said, Wow, this guy is amazing. And I hired him on Braveheart and he went back to back Oscars and he won back to back Oscars. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely right, he got He got back to backs. So I pulled the right rayin there.

I also stole the editor from from Legends of the Falling guy called Steve Rosenblum, who to this day is like, yeah, he's He's in a handful of editors that I think he's just like amazing. Yeah, there's a few, there's a few of those guys around. Well, speaking of Braveheart, I'd love to just kind of go back Oscar night that year. It was March, which gosh, I imagine if the oscars were late March still it would be such a long stretch of time before getting to the oscars. But do

you remember that night? Oh? Yeah, pretty well? How was it? The sweaty? I was tired. It was. It was you know, kind of when you're counting down to the Oscars and stuff, you end up doing a lot of Q and A's breakfasts and this talking to a lot of people, and by the time you get to it, you're sort of numb. It's like being on you know, the election campaign or something, and you start to wonder, why am I doing this?

You know, it's like and then you know, they call your name and you go up there and you you kind of got the butterflies, and you're excited and very gratified that your fellows and your peers recognize your work, and it's, uh, you know, it's always a it feels good. You know. It's an interesting Oscar history footnote to me because that year Ron Howard's Apollo thirteen was very strong, felt like the one to beat really going into the Oscars. You pulled it out and you guys were working on

Ransom at the time, that's right. And then a few years later you presented him his Oscar for Best Director here, so no hard feelings. I guess it for Beautiful Mind. Yeah there. Yeah. I think that was pretty quick after, wasn't it. Yeah, it was like two or three years. Yeah, that's right. Um. You know, I wanted to talk a little bit about this sequel, for lack of a better word, to the Passion of the Christ that you you've talked about recently, where you're going to go and work on

the resurrection. Uh. You know when when someone comes back into the spotlight after airing a dark chapter publicly. Uh. And I think the public nature of that is what's so unusual and difficult maybe for people to to relate to. Uh. So I'm just kind of fascinated the choice of subject matter here. Um. Again, not to put you on the couch, but do you feel like where you're at in your career. You've talked about your sobriety of ten years, congratulations on that. Uh,

just a general feeling of getting back on track. I mean, is there any of that that's drawing you to the idea of the story of the resurrection. I can't tell you what's drawing me to that, but it's it's it's a calling. So it's um so, I think it's it's out of my hands, but I'm compelled to go there again. And I think, um and I think I can tell that story. And it's a difficult story to tell because it isn't just some kind of facile rendering of events. Um.

It's beyond that. You have to extract far more from what's there than appears to be. I think you can do it by juxtaposing other things from other eras against it, um and then kind of make a statement that in life, these people um so, you know, going back into and look, that's a that's a while away too. I think I'm sort of working on that with the scribe of Braveheart, you know, and he's uh he and I are throwing ideas around about that, and you know, we're getting some

pretty good ideas. But the more you talk about it, the more it seems to open up. And and uh so it's a very big story and I'm not quite sure how to tackle that monster yet. But it's um it I think it's going to be good when it happens, because there's a great deal of thought and consideration going into it. Would you bring back Caleb Dischanel, He's the greatest man? Wow? And then the same question for Jim Caviezel.

Would would this be the kind of thing where you'd want all that connective tissue or Cavizel would be great, you know. And he hasn't even aged, right, you know, he just looks the same, you know, easily, just perennially. You know, he's always gonna look like he's thirty years old,

this guy. And um, you know Caleb, you know, I asked him for a moving Caravaggio, you know, and so we were looking at Caravaggio's paintings instead of light sources and all this kind of stuff and the movement in them, and um, and he he kind of showed me some some of the first days of Rushes. I'm like, oh my god, I said, it is a moving Caravaccio. And he said that's what you wanted, wasn't it. It's like, no, biggie, you know, he just like threw that one off as fantastic.

And so, you know, a guy's amazing, and he's acquainted himself now with the digital medium, as all cinematographers must. Really we took the big dive on that in two thousand and six with Apocalypto and Dean Yeah Genesis Man. Yeah, kind of a prototype now, but it was good enough and uh we were able to scan that on the film easily, so and it didn't suffer any I be him a big fan of digital at that point. We shot the whole thing in digital. I don't think an

entire feature had been shot digitally. Maybe like Michael Mann had done something Collateral, Yeah, like like Collateral or one of those. Yeah, But but he used that other camera. I forgot what it was called. He was doing a lot of different things with little a little little different cameras that he you know, he was in a very different world than like I think the world that led into the Alexa and stuff like that. Yes, it was different. But what was it called the Scorpion or something had

a weird name. And the stuff he did in Ali too, where he had this little pin camera where you just get in there on the action like holding it like this very unique stuff that hees. Yeah, No, he's he's exciting I mean, he's like, some of his stuff is amazing and uh yeah. But going in there with the Genesis was like wow. And there were things that couldn't do, but there were things that could do really well. Like Dean Simmler was like a kid and that handy store going, well,

look at this. I'd be outside with the actors and I couldn't even see them. I sat Dean, it's too dark out here because I'm still thinking film, you know, and he's calling to me from inside this black tent and he has, you know, all the knobs and whistles in there to adjust the picture and the exposure and everything else, and he's going, now, it should be right, and I'm like, Dean, I can't see the actors. He's

don't worry about it. Shoot it. I'm like, oh jeez, So we shoot it, and of course later on you see it and it's just fine. Yeah, it's amazing. But digital it really opened up the canvas. You know, You've got more than two stops in either direction now, way more you can do anything. Yeah, it's exciting, and it kind of democratizes the form a bit too, for it does, and you know, I mean, it's really about what's going on?

And I mean it's great if you can have those beautiful images and it's pristine, you know, whatever you want, you know the effects that you want. Um. But but it's really about what's going on inside the camp. You know, what's going on, what's the story going on in there? What are you telling? What's happening in the actor's eyes? What? Um?

So that um? You know, I think that the means or the opportunity for anybody, even an enterprising college kid, to make a masterpiece now on an iPhone, it is possible. I just need a couple of those I touched on this and I'm not going to belabor the point. But we find ourselves often in a kind of art versus artist debate, separating the art from the artist. Uh. You know, I think that Nate Parker this year is dealing with you know, there's people who feel like they can't support

him or see his film. And there's people that feel like they can't support you or see your films after your history, And I'm just c what is it do you think that? Just be clear about what do you think it is that? What do I think? What is that that would make people not support my film after my history, like what aspects. But I can't speak to the to to why they would feel that. I mean, I'm talking about your two thousand and six episode and in the slur and whatnot that we're caught on camera

and I mean on microphone. And again I don't want to be labor The point my question to you is how do you respond to that? How do you process that? Is it something you just write off and figure you can't control it? Or do you doesn't make you feel as if you want to change perspectives all the more? Well, that's pretty old stuff. It's ten years old. It's an unfortunate incident. I was loaded and angry and arrested, you know,

so you know, these things happen. I was recorded illegally by an unscrupulous police officer who was never prosecuted for that crime, and then it was made public by him for profit and by you know, members of we'll call it the press. Uh. You know, So I'm not fair, Okay, So I guess as who I am, I'm not allowed to have a nervous breakdown ever, especially when the you know, when the pressure is great, and the pressure was great, you know, but and years have elapsed. This is an

old story, my friend, and old I've forgotten it. I've forgiven now whether I've been forgiven not for what? For what? Really? Forgetting lowd and saying some stupid stuff that people put on micro now I apologize for it. Has the apology been accepted? I don't know, But that's not my job. I made it. Uh. Ten years have gone by, I'm feeling good, I'm much better sober, all that kind of stuff, and for me, it's a dim thing in the past.

But others bring it up, which kind of I find annoying because I don't understand why after ten years it's any kind of issue. Um. Surely, if I was really what they say, I was some kind of hater, you know, Um, there'd be evidence of actions somewhere. There never has been. I've never discriminated against anyone or done anything that sort

of supports that reputation, you know. And for one episode in the back of a police car on a double tequilas to sort of dictate all the work, life's work and beliefs and everything else that I have and maintain for my life is really unfair. But some people talk, you know, they took it upon themselves to sort of have a crucifixion. So there you go. I understand, and I'll just I've talked more about this with you than with anyone else. But it's like, you know, that's that's

where I'm at. I'm in a better place. I'm healthy, I'm happy. I got you know, family members that I love and support. They love and support me. And I have many friends, um, and many friends in the industry, but they were always there. Um. Well, again, the reason I bring it up is just this idea of the art versus the artist. I feel. I feel very strongly that if you feel strongly about the actions of someone, that should not bleed into how you feel about the

art that they've potentially created. Well, that's true also, and I think, uh, the art that they create, um speaks loud to do who that person is. Um. You know, people say, oh, let's say what you will about this piece of you know shit, he made a great movie. Well that doesn't make sense, you know, because i'd make a piece of ship movie. You know, I hear you, and I don't think I have. I'll end on a lighter note, which is uh leathal weapon is uh, you know,

looms large Martin Riggs. Amazing character that you brought four in the property has taken on life again. It's a TV show. Have you seen the show? I haven't got a chance. I don't wanna. Yeah, they've taken the procedural route with it, you know, so it's like me like, you know, here's the crime of the week on this episode. Kind of so it's kind of like what they did

with Hawaii five. Oh but you know, Shane Black was recently over the summer promoting his film and talking about what his pitch for Lethal Weapon five would be, which I thought sounded kind of cool. It's like you guys in a blizzard in New York or whatever. My question as a and of the franchise and the characters, is that something that we can at all hope for or do you think that that chapter is Definitely I think

it's a cool idea. Yeah, you know, and I like the idea of Shane doing it, you know, but I wonder about Donner, you know, be Gooder to get him back? Well yeah, little he directed all those things, and I kind of was like wondering, Hey, where's Donner and all this? So, you know, we need we need to get that guy back behind the camera. Um. But but yeah, it's a cool idea, I think, uh, I think maybe Warner Brothers are kind of is it warners that put the TV

thing out? Is that I don't know actually TV Fox, Okay, you know, I hope they make a buck. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't seen it. What's it like? Is it good? You know? I'm glad Damon Wayne's is working. I'll put it that way. Damon and he's funny. Is he funny? He's funny. I saw the pilot, that's all I saw, and he was good. And it's they'll have a good character dynamic. I think these characters are strong enough that any two good actors that play them, they're

going to have a fun on camera relationship. So hopefully we'll get lead the Weapon five with you soon. Uh So again, the movie is hacks All Ridge opens November four, and so everyone goes see it. It's a great movie and we're happy to have you back in the director's chair. Sir. Thank you for coming onto the show. I appreciate it. Thanks again for listening. Everyone, don't forget to subscribe and check back next week when I'll be talking to MS

Sloane star Jessica Chastain. You've been listening to playback at Variety