Ep03 - Ewan McGregor / "American Pastoral"

I of Toronto, but it is literally I yet. Last night I hit that point where my eyes were pounding from exhaustion. I was just so tired. But you know, champagne problems totally. When you saw some good movies, I did, what's your favorite? When you saw Boy, That's a tough one. I mean, there is really a three way race in my heart between La La Land, Moonlight, and Nocturnal Animals. Nocturnal Animals was probably the biggest surprise. I loved tom Ford single Man. It's been seven years and I've been

waiting for his follow up movie. Yeah. Uh. And by the way, after I saw the movie, I went and purchased some tom Ford makeup and it's fantastic. Um So if they want to send me anything free. Yeah, I'm sitting here wondering what kind of a plug that was.

I just didn't intend to. I was like, everyone looked so good in Nocturnal Animals, and then I found out he had a makeup line, and I was at the department store and I just I was like, I want to look like Amy Adams, which is pretty much true of any movie, but but specifically in this movie, it looks fantastic. I feel like, sometimes you feel like there's a movie that was just sort of made for you, you know, and Nocturnal Animals just just checked off all

my boxes. Um let alone. Actually, I think the first time I really got to know you, we bonded over our mutual love of Michael Shannon. Of course, he's the best. He showed up at his premiere or wherever he was with his Hawaiian shirt. Did you see the photos? Oh? Yes,

you should see what he wore to our studio. It's awesome. Yeah. No, he's the best and will finally get an Oscar nomination for Best Supporting Actor since I guess Revolutionary Road was his last Domination should have been nominated last year, left over from last year, and it's a fantastic performance. Yeah. Here, I haven't seen the film yet, but I do hear

he steals his scenes so as only he can. But regarding Amy, I mean, she's got a pair of movies in the race, and both of them were at Toronto Arrival, premiered in Venice went to tell you Ride. We spoke to her last week on the podcast and uh, you know, two very different performances, I would imagine. Obviously I haven't seen Nocturnal, but an Arrival. Uh, she's she's pretty staggering. Um, just the level of control that she has in this role of of who is going to become a mother?

It's it's, as I was joking with her, it's hard to talk about that movie without ruining. I know, I'm trying to be very careful. Um, but between these two movies, why don't you talk about the two performances and where you think the strong suits are. Well, it's interesting because I think nocturnal animals. Actually, I don't know how the world is going to respond to nocturnal animals. I know I loved it. A lot of people loved it. I honestly don't know how it's going to play in the

rest of the world or how it will. I think it'll be a pretty big factor in the Oscar Race. Um, so it might be the more Oscar friendly movie. But I actually think her performance in a Rival might get more attention for her. Um, Nocturnal Animals is very stylized. She's very good. Like, don't get me wrong, this is totally like a wonderful choice to have to make. But I do think Arrival there is so much heart and emotion where she's has to be very restrained in Nocturnal Animals.

I also think, um, and you might be able to speak to this better than I can. You know. Uh, there's a lot of love for Arrival, and it is not a traditional sort of movie that you see in the Oscar Race, so it might be sort of fun to reward her there. But at this point it's I mean, look, I just was looking at tweets I sent out a year ago. I honestly thought that there would be a problem deciding if Cape Blanchett would get nominated for Truth or Carol. Yeah me to see, Okay, I loved Truth.

I thought she was great and Truth I really thought she was fantastic and truth and I thought she might get nominated for that and we were staggeringly wrong. Yeah, it happens. It happens. It does a lot with me,

believe it or not. Um, you know, the Toronto Audience Award is something to talk about, by the way, because every year it's it's a good indication of what is playing broadly, what is playing well to a broad cross section of people, which is instructive as it pertains of the Academy Last year Room One, and you know, people still didn't give it as due as the season progressed and said, oh it's people aren't going to watch that movie, you know, blah blah blah. And then it gets not

only picture but director, and obviously Bree Larson wins Best Actress. Uh. To my view, it seems like this this is probably the between a couple of movies, La La Land, which started in Venice. Went to tell your Ride went to Toronto. Everyone that sees it is in love with it. Obviously, I said, the daby and she'sel yesterday. Oh god, it

was only yesterday. I said. Look, there might be people who La La Land is not their thing, but I can't imagine anyone hating this movie, and if they do, they might be a serial killer, because it is so joyous and fresh, and you can look at it in a jaded way and say, well, sure, they got Ryan Gosliy and Emma Stone and they made a musical, so you know they it's Oscar bait. But no way on paper was that Oscar bait When people signed up to

finance a subversive musical. He completely flips the genre and it's here in some ways, and uh, you know it's it's it's a an expressionistic musical. It's amazing. It's a wonderful film. And you don't like musicals, do you not? Really? To be perfectly honest, Although that said, Singing in the Rain is one of my favorite movies of all time, But how can it not be also very subversive? Yah?

Let's yeah, it's a great movie. It's um interesting because when I saw The Land, I said, I think people who don't generally like musicals are actually really going to love this movie. Um. And then people who do like musicals, I'm very curious to see how they Resmond. Now, I love musicals, as you know, and I loved it, so maybe they'll embrace it, but it is not. Even though it takes its homages from you know, big MGM musicals, Um, it's not like a traditional musical in any way. I

think that works for it. I was going to say, make fun of me when I say that, but I agree with you. You're allowed one or two podcast. Okay, we'll keep track. But yeah, I think that somebody until Your Ride was making the case to me that the fact that it was not particularly in the vein of traditional musicals, that that will hurt it in the race. And I'm just thinking that would have just set it up to be compared to you know whatever sound of music blah blah blah. But like this is its own thing,

and uh, you know I I have. I can't imagine it not going very far this season, and that couldn't include winning the Audience Award. Yeah, I agree. I think it's between La La Landed Moonlight and Moonlight is my other another one I have here. I saw that in Toronto or Tell Your Ride. Obviously a very different movie, but a movie that I think it affects everyone who sees it. It's it's it's uh. Peter de Bruce and

I spoke about it last week. But it's the direction is really staggering, the performances that Barry Jenkins is able to get out of this cast, and the way it's just his story laide there and you know, we'll see how it goes. I'm sure that Toronto would probably rather have like a world premiere when the audience award like a lot very interesting, which lyon was the one movie I did not see appearing great things about something interesting.

You might already know this, but Naomi Harris, who's the only person in all three segments in Moonlight, came into our studio and you know she shot her scenes in three days. Yes, it's crazy, and I assume that meant that she shot scenes from the first segment one day, the middle segment the next day. No, she would say she started off the morning an old age makeup, did the middle scenes, did the beginning to see because it was all based on location, and then in the day

an old age makeup again. And that just adds a whole Because I asked her, I said, do you want to talk about the fact you only shot in three days? Because you know, um, are you afraid people might sort of like be dismissive? And be like, well, you know, it's it's only a three day performance, we should nominate it. Uh, And she was like no, she was more than happy

to Well, let's be clear. She flew in from the junk for Bond in Mexico City to South Florida to shoot those three days, so she was in a completely other headspace. That makes the performance that much more amazing to me. And I actually interviewed her during right before Toronto and we spoke about that, and uh, I think she's a luck for a nomination. Oh, I do too.

And it's interesting because another luck for a nomination is Michelle Williams and Manchester by the Sea And again not a lot of screen time, but what they do and that screen time is phenomenal. Can we talk about Amazon putting that clip out there? I didn't know they did. They've released the unless I'm mistaken, I said, I've been five days, but I know they screened the clip of Michelle's big moment in Manchester by the Sea at CinemaCon and now it's used in the trailer a little bit.

And now they've released this clip and it's it's bugs me because it's a moment you have to build to. I mean, I guess anything that gets people to see the movie and anything that sells that performance is good. But yeah, I don't I don't want them to give that away. I can't imagine Keneth Lunargain is happy with that. Yeah. By the way, I was at the Nocturnal Animal screening

where the screen went black three minutes. I don't know if you heard about that, and I literally, yeah, I literally think I heard a head roll because you know, what a perfectionist Tom boy. I'm sure Tom was upset about that, But what a testament to the movie and how great it was that we were all just like, first we thought it was part of the movie. You're like, oh, what, what brilliant thing has he done here? And then we were just just like, you know, on the edge of

our seats, like bring it back. That reminds me of the time that I saw Chay and the subtitles didn't work for like twenty minutes. Oh my god. None of us thought that that was a mistake. Everyone just thought, oh, this is just Soderberg, keep up. And then the movie stopped and the guy came in and said, oh, sorry, the subtitles weren't working, and we were like, okay, oh that's so fine. Um. Snowdon Yes premiered in Toronto Oliver Stone.

It also played at Comic Con, which was an interesting place to screen it, and they had a big panel there where he made headlines with his POKEMONO stuff. He's got great sound bites, like he came in and I asked him if you know he's become more paranoid since making Snowden and like covering the camera on his phone and he's like, well, paranoia implies that I might not be right seeing Oh. By the way, Oliver Stone in our studio, UM, basically production designed his own shots. When

we were doing the interview. He he had us film him and then he got behind the camera, checked it out, made sure the lighting was good, made sure he was seated in the right place. Um. And you can make fun of him if you want, but it looked terrific and it was very sweet he does. UM. I like

that movie a lot. It's very entertaining. It's very un Oliver Stone in some ways because it's uh, I don't want to say that it's anonymous, but it just has a slicker sheen and his movies tend to have it doesn't you know again it's I don't mean this to sound like a knock see. I do think it feels like an all of our Stone movie, like one he would have made in the eighties. Um. I think it's his best movie in twenty five years since jfk uh in telling the story of a Well that's kind of

faint praise. Let's be honest. I'm just trying to think what's happening savages Nixon, Nix and I love Nixon has very good performances. But I think it's his best felt since Jeff Any Given Sunday. I'm a huge fan. Well, you know what, I do love that movie. Yeah, yeah, But I do think it's an all of our Stone film, and that it surprised me in learning what a patriot Edward Snowden was, you know, and that he wanted to be a marine before an injury sort of forced him

to the sidelines. And it made me think of you know ron Kovic and uh born on the Fourth of July, or Charlie Sheen's character and Platoon. You know, these people who went into something very raw, raw America and you know, sort of got turned around, have their worldviews challenge absolutely every time I look at my computer, I think that

I need to put something on the camp. Oh I did because I saw I also saw a Black Mirror the new season and yeah, there's I am terrified to turn on my phone at this point, speaking of there is an Oscar worthy performance in uh this new season of Black Mirror from Bryce Dallas Howard in an episode directed by Joe Wright called Nose Dive that yeah, you just have to see Bryce Dallas Chastain. Well, you know, I first, this is a total name dropping story, but

I have to tell it. I was at the airport with her yesterday and yeah, sorry with Bryce and the woman's checking your ticket was looking at her and going do you use a stage name? And she's like uh, and she knew exactly and she's like, well, who do you think I am? And the woman was like and she actually. Bryce filmed this little interaction with the woman and I think she's going to post it on social media,

but no, it's like it happens all the time. Um. And then like I was standing waiting for her outside of customs and a couple of people came up to me and they were like, Um, your friend is is Is she the one from zero Dark thirty. Yeah it was. And by the way, you know how much I hate to fly, and I need to be like very um um filled with zanix in order to get on a plane. And I got to give a shout out to Bryce Dallice Howard because she kept me so calm and collected.

And we got on the plane and you know, I said goodbye because she was in first class obviously, and it was the most relaxed I've ever been on a flight. I'll probably need to talk to her next time I get on a plane. There. Let's talk about Jackie, which was the big acquisition out of the festival. Fox Searchlight picked it up after being involved in the development of the movie. It's a perfect hone for them. I mean

Darren Aronofsky, who produced Jackie, did not direct it. Uh. And Natalie Portman they obviously collaborated on Black Swall and very successfully for Fox Searchlights. Yeah. Yeah, and Pablo Lorraine is the director, just had a tribute and Tell Your Ride and had two movies Reason Aruta was the other one. Uh. And you can I say something gossipy? Oh please? Naruta stars Guy el Garcia Burnell, who used to date Natalie Portman. Oh my gosh, the connections are amazing. Well, tell me

about Natalie's performance. I haven't seen the movie yet. I mean, she's great, and here's you know, the truth is I somehow missed the whole Kennedy Camelot thing, Like I'm not as fascinated by them as a lot of people. I don't know if it's an age thing or just that I think quote unquote royalty is silly. But she is really amazing. I mean, it's a great study of grief. It's just a powerful you know, you believe her as a mother, you believe her as a first lady, as

this you know widow Um. Yeah, it's it's interesting even though we know what the story is. I kind of don't want to give away too much. I'm curious why it took so long for someone to pick Get Up. I mean, does it is an esoteric film? I think it's actually really commercial interesting. Yeah, I mean it was actually, to be honest, it was the one thing that people were really saying they really want to see after you know,

obviously La La land Um. I remember talking to some critics who got shut out of the first Present industry screening because it was so full and it was in their biggest theater. Yeah, it's uh, it's rare for a movie nowadays to get picked up in Toronto and get turned around as a as a contender. It happened with The Wrestler a number of years ago. It happened with

Still Alice a couple of years ago. Um. But you know, obviously, I think with with just the turmoil surrounding Birth of a Nation, Searchlight would probably like to have something else to play with this season. So good for them that they have something else to work with. But yeah, it's it'll be very interesting to see Natalie Portman back in the race. Yeah, I mean she's great. Last time we saw her in the race, she was pregnant on stage

winning an oscar and looking amazing. So yeah, great. Well, and you know, I actually went to the Birth of Any screen in Toronto, even though I've already seen the movie. Uh, and I have to say it played great, did it? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I read the stuff about the standing ovations and everything, although it, let's be honest, everything in Toronto people give standing ovations. Yeah, but I do still love that film, and I will say that in my circles

just kind of my conversations with Academy members. More often than not, people are more concerned with what the movie is going to be, and they want to separate art from the artist. We'll see how it plays out. I'm sure we'll be talking about it all season. Do you think having mel Gibson in the race this year helps or hurt Snate Parker? It's interesting. I mean, it's certainly interesting.

Our editor Andy What wrote a piece about that recently. UM, it's it will present the idea of hypocrisy pretty starkly, I think. Uh. In regarding that film, Mel Gibson's film hexall Ridge, which played Venice and only Venice, UM great movie, I have no doubt. I mean, he is a really good filmmaker. I really liked Apocalypto. I did too. I think it's a fantastic filmmaker. I think that The Passion of the Christ is an amazing film. I've never seen it never will because you don't want to deal with I.

You know, I have issues with torture on film. It's well, then yeah, you should skip the Passion. Torture and hurting dogs will turn me off to any movie. Stay away from white Gut then Oh my god, I did so you know, they did not sell that movie fairly. Oh good god. That was one of my favorite movies of last year though, And well, hey, look I like a Morris Paros, so I guess there are exceptions, I guess.

So well, then let's let's let's make a declaration. What's gonna win that People's Choice prize because that is going to you know, recent winners are the King's Speech, some dog, millionaire, uh what else? Gosh room we said. Uh um, I really don't know right now. I kind of want to say Moonlight because I feel like it's there's something about the number of theaters they play into. Yeah, I know it's regarding all. I mean, law La Land, it's gonna

be La La Lander. Moonlight is my guests, and I kind of feel like, again, it's wrong of me to say that La La Land is the obvious choice because it's the one everyone loves and it's so accessible. When I do think it was made from a place of like, I'm making this movie for me, you know, and hopefully other people will like it. But um, I just think I don't know, I mean, like seeing people's reactions to Moonlight,

like Pete like and I just don't think there's anything. Well, it's not fair for me to say there's nothing else there out there like it because of the same could be said of La La Land. Yeah. Yeah, you say moonlight, I'll say La La Land. I think that's what it is. And then I would not rule out nocturnal animals. But that might be wishful thinking. But wishful thinking help. Last year when my favorite movie of the year, Room One,

there you go. Well, another movie that played Toronto. We're gonna get into with the interview section here in a minute was American Pastoral, Ewan McGregor's directorial debut. I'll be talking to him and just a little bit, so stick around for that. Welcome back everyone, I'm here with Ewan McGregor, the star and director of American Pastoral. You would thank you for being here today. My great pleasure. Thanks for having me. This is your directorial debut. Uh yeah, my

first feature film. I did a short film a long long time ago, but it was very like literally very short, and this was my first feature film. Yes, and a long time in the coming. I'll be wanting to do it for a long long time, but I was waiting to find the right story. Well, I was just going to ask, I assume you wanted to do it for a while. So what was it about this material that said, okay, this is the one. Well I was attached to this as as an actor to play this weed for I

think maybe three years, or maybe over three years. And we kept we kept up, we we we we kept having um, we kept losing directors a bit like The Drummer and Spinal Tap, they would sort of follow it. No one died, but it was one of those situations where it happened to me before in movies where after two or three hit and mrs like that, usually you think it's not going to happen and you let it go. And I didn't ever let this one go. I didn't.

I couldn't. Somehow I wanted to play the weed so badly, and then um, when it really looked like it wasn't going to happen after about three years, I suddenly I suddenly thought, well, maybe you know, so this is this could be the one I've been waiting for. I've been waiting for the right story to tell as a director. I didn't want to direct just for the sake of doing it or to say that I was a director or I've done it, but I wanted to do it because I had a story that was burning to tell.

And I realized the closer this film got to disappearing, that this this was the one. And why that is, I don't know. I mean, it's a it's a It touched me very deeply. The story. I'm a father of girls. I've got four girls. This is very much a story about our family, but about a father and a daughter. And it came about, I suppose, round about the time my eldest daughter was about to leave home. I think when I first read the script, she would have been

about four thirteen or fourteen. So it must have been on my mind. And I've only realized this in retrospect, but I think it must have been in my mind, this idea, that of losing a daughter somehow, And of course in our story it's a very extreme example of that. Um the family lose their daughter to radicalism. She becomes radicalized, politically radicalized, and and disappears into the underground. And so

that's a very extreme example of loss. Whereas I suppose I must have been sort of contemplating the loss of my my daughter out of the house of her going to college and not waking up in the same house as Aus anymore. Um, And now you know, since we made the movie and she's not twenty and she has left, so you know, I think maybe that's why it connected

to me so much early on. Yeah, you you actually completely saw a question coming, which was regarding the fact that your father, I'm a new father, actually terrified me because I mean, you know, without giving too much away, it is it's it's essentially about a father who is helpless to affect the path that his daughter's taking, essentially, and just kind of that how that helplessness eats at

him is what I was taking away from it. So I was going to ask you, being a father of daughters, what that element of the story meant for you, And so clearly it was sort of everything. I mean. I told my eldest when she came to visit while we were shooting the film in Pittsburgh, and I said to her, you've you taught me everything I needed to know to make this movie, and she did. Really, it's difficult. You can't put your finger and what exactly it is because

it's a great many things. Rath Philip Roth, and his novel explores to great depth a whole range of um issues and thoughts and arguments, if you like. And the one of the extraordinary thing is that he's not a father. You know, Philip Roth has written this really accurate story about parenting and parenting in the sixties, you know, in the late fifties, sixties, the Swedest sort of rather a

modern father in many ways. And he writes about the structure between the father and the daughter and the mother and the daughter, and the mother and the father, and those are very recognizable things that I recognized lots of them from my life. But you know, it's very it's a it's very deep and broad. So it's difficult to put your finger on exactly exactly what that is. And I feel like Wrath can be tricky for filmmakers to tackle. I think some have struggled with his work in the past.

I don't know why that is. I don't know if it's not like overtly cinematic on the page, per se, or or anything. Did you find any particular challenge when you were setting out to adapt his work as a film. My challenge was to try and do it justice. I thought, I When I came to the project as director, the script was already in a very good form, gen Roman of a really beautiful adaptation of the novel, and there wasn't really very there wasn't a great deal of work

for me to do on that script. Of course, there was little changes here and there that we worked on together, but the but the film that you see is very much the script that he wrote that I was presented with, and I thought he did a really fine job of transposing the novel on onto the onto the page. And my job was to make that onto the screen and to try and do justice to his work, John Romano's,

but but also Philip Roth's. And I tried to do that by not getting not not being too intimidated by the idea that Philip Roth had written the novel, which of course is quite an intimidating thought, and just to think of it simply what it is, and and I felt that very much. It was it was a story

about a family. It was very much a story about a father and a daughter, and the mother and a daughter, and and something happens in their family that they have to deal with, and it's an exploration of how they deal with that, and then on a broader sense, I felt like, it's a story of America. It's the story

about America. It's about postwar American hope and aspiration being decimated by the sixties in Vietnam, and and a new generation who felt like revel, who felt that things could radical change was just imminent, you know, And so I tried to do justice to both those things. Sometimes we concentrate purely on the sort of family story, and other times, and maybe more in the edit room, I suppose try and broaden it to become a story of America, because

I think that's what Roth is talking about. You're a veteran, obviously, But nevertheless, was there anything that completely surprised you about fine jumping into the director's chair yourself on a feature. No, it was as scary as I thought it would be. It was quite um. I don't think there was any major surprises. I mean, the bit the big part of the experience, of course, that which was new to me

was the financial side of things. This, the everything creative was things that I've already been involved in, really, you know, working with the creative heads of department, with the director of photography, with the costume designer and makeup and hair designers, UM,

the designer production designer. Those are people who I interact with anyway on on a daily basis when I'm working as an actor, and that creative conversation I already have with them to an extent, not to the depth of the extent you do have as a director, but as an actor you have some interaction with the designer and what you're what your house might look like, or you know UM, and with the DP, of course you're working with him or her on a daily basis, trying to

understand the shot and how to act best in that shot.

So though, that part of the whole experience was as thrilling as I thought it would be, and I really looked forward to being part of the creative process from start to finish, as opposed to normally I just take part in the middle part of it in the shoot, but to be part of the pre production, to be finding the locations, to be discussing with the designer how they might look, how they should feel, and then working with the costume designer and the makeup and hair designer

in the same way, how to storytell, especially in a story like this that takes place between the late forties and the nineties. You know, we've got a huge swathe of period through the film, and I wanted that to be subtle, but I wanted it to be correct, and I wanted it to not be noticeable. Really, and I'm proud of the fact that I think that is the case. And you watched the film, it doesn't. I don't think you'd come away with it thinking, oh, that was a

great period film. The periods there and and right, but really not in your face. And that's a testament to their skill and of work. So that side of stuff was was just thrilling and exciting. How about casting, casting, I thought was I mean, I was very lucky in that Dakota and Jennifer were both on board. They were both cast when I was cast on the project to

begin with, so I sort of inherited them. Thank goodness, I had my first job as director after after Tom Rosenberg told me that I could direct the movie, was to go and meet with both of them and asked them if they would stay on. And so that was that was my first nervous moment, but it was I was lucky that they both did, and goodness may they both deliver and really it's an extraort. They both give extraordinary performances in this film. So I was very lucky

there and then the other parts. Was was an interesting process. Peter re Get we cast as my father, Now that that was that was somebody who meant a great deal to me. He was in a movie with my uncle Dennis Lawson back in the eighties, a movie called Local Hero. And although I didn't know owe him very well and met him maybe once or twice, he was sort of

part of our family law. You know. I was a kid when that film came out, and my uncle was in that movie, and we we used to visit the location where they shot that movie and on our summer holidays, and so he was some quite important character in my life. And I thought the idea of casting him as my as my father in this movie was a beautiful sort of full circle in some way. And it was lovely

and and and worked really really well. There's some really nice Luke's and moments between us that really don't need any words or dialogue. And that's because of my admiration of him and um and and and he was happy to be part of the movie, you know, across the board. We had really wonderful actors. Valerie Curry, who plays Rita, gives an extraordinary brave and mature performance. And Uzu Aduba is a is a lovely addition to the movie. Plays

my secretary. And there's also a nice relation there between us. UM. I like your DP a lot. By the way, Yeah, Martin Rue, how did you decide on him? That was he part of the project as well already or he wasn't. I had three I had sort of a short list of three dps. I think by the time we you know, we'd explored um crewing up early early on in prep, and there was there was two dps who had worked

with before UM. One I'd worked with twice. One I've seen work with an actor who was also directing, which I thought was and I like the way he did that. And and then Martin and it was really I mean, Martin shot a film called Control Anton Corbyn, which is released spectacular piece of filmmaking, and and went on to shoot The American with Anton. And but it was a film and independent film that he made called Martin Brown

Um starring Michael Caine that clinched it for me. I was watching it because because I needed somebody who was going to be a partner. I've seen too many first time directors fall out with our DP on set, and it's really awful when it happens. I didn't want that to happen to me, and I can understand how it could be frustrating for a DP to be working with somebody who's a first time director, who's going to make mistakes, who's going to ask for shots that don't make sense.

You know. I needed somebody who's going to work with me on storytelling. And I've got a sense of shots. I've been working in front of a camera for twenties three years, so it's not like I'm a novice. I know, I know my way around there. But I still needed somebody who's going to be totally on my side and and help me with storytelling. And that's really I wanted to be economical in this. I wanted the film not

to be too cutty. I wanted it to look classical and beautiful, and I wanted the acting to be front and center as opposed to sort of the filmmaking. I'm much more. I'm an actor, so I'm I'm That's sort of what thrills me and drives me and with Martin. In this film Harry Brown, there's a sequence at the beginning of the movie. It's maybe like h eight or nine shots that introduce us to um Mike Kaine's character. And there's shots of him. He's waking up in a bed,

he rolls over. There's another shot of him in bed. We see him looking at a clock and round about the clock, or there's some pills. And then there's a picture of his wife, who's obviously not in the bed with him, so we maybe he's an older man. We

assume maybe she's passed away. And then there's a shot from under the bed of his feet coming down on the floor, and and a shot of him cooking breakfast and eating breakfast, and there was you just knew everything immediately without a word of dialogue because of his beautiful photography, the framing was so spectacular and and and of course Michael Caine such a wonderful actor. You just knew everything you needed to know about that character, and you were

often into the story. And when I watched those the opening of that movie, I just knew. I thought, this this is who I need. And so that's why we chose him, Well, now that you've got one under your belt, are you excited to make more movies? Did this one scare you off? You mean, what it taught me was that it's it's very costly. It is an enormous amount of I mean, it's obvious, it takes a long time. It takes much longer than than enacting, Joeb. You know, I can be in acting in a movie in three

months to three four months. This was sixteen months of my life. But on top of that, it's an extraordinary focus really from the word go, from the moment Tom said you can direct American Pastoral until my last day in the sound mix, was just total focus on the story and and every aspect of it. And that gives you a great deal of satisfaction. But it's also sort

of a bit like, you know, brain damage. You're just walking around thinking about this one story, and you're trying to be trying to be a dad and a husband and all other things, and and really your brain is just thinking about the story all day. So I realized that that's quite costly, and you don't want You couldn't.

You couldn't. I couldn't imagine, you know, dedicating that amount of time and energy to something that I didn't have to tell, like I sort of had to tell the story of American Pastoral because without those three years when I was attached to it as an actor, as it started started to slip away, I realized I couldn't let it slip away, and it was the story I needed

to tell. And for fifteen years of wanting to direct, I've always said to people, I only want to direct because I've got a story that I really need to tell. And that's what happened here. So um goodness, I hope there is another one, because I really I loved being and being that the creative experience was so fulfilling and wonderful that I would want to do that again. But I can't have to wait till the next story till I find it or it finds me, or um, and

then then I would throw myself at it again. Yeah. Well, I just want to switch gears a little bit here. You've been busy, man. You played Jesus this year, which I've always I don't even know if I have a question here, but I've always sort of wanted to like write a book or something where you talk to people like willum Dafoe and Jim Caviezel and yourself, like people that have taken on that role because it's it's it's

a heady roll to get into, I imagine. So this film was Last Days in the Desert, Rodrigo Garcia chiev All, the Bestkie, the great chiev of the Beskie, shooting the film. What was that experience like for you? It was really special, it was It was a very important film for me. I don't know, it was important the idea of making it before we shot it. The actual shoot was beautiful and an incredibly unique experience working with Rodrigo and Chivo and the other actors there in the in the desert,

just southeast of Pia in fact. But it was very meaningful somehow. And then and then the actual movie itself, I think is quite unique and beautiful. It's got completely original pace and tone, and I'm very proud of it. I love it very much. Is there something daunting about that character to play that? I mean just totally Yeah. It's completely like sleepless nights for weeks, I imagine. Yeah, and then you realize, of course, most of the things that are keeping you up are things that I wouldn't

normally worry about. Most of the things are how are people going to perceive it? How what are people going to think? I know, I never worry about those kind of things. Usually, I'm much more interested in how am I going to play it? And how who is this man? And how does he feel to be and how does he think when he looks at things? Those are really what I normally concentrate on, not not from the outside what will it look like or how what people what

people think? And I believed in the script. I didn't believe there was I believe really completely in the script. There was nothing controversial about it or I just felt like it was a beautiful story that Rodrigo had invented about Christ in the desert meeting this family, and really it was an exploration of fathers and sons. It was it was that's really to me all it was about.

I mean, I think sometimes Christ is the son of God, and other times he's the father of the child, and there's a father to the child, and so sometimes he feels that the son to that father. It was every scene to me felt like that's what we were exploring. And so there was something deep and interesting and beneath all of these beautifully spare scenes, and with Rodrigo's direction,

it was a great joy to do. It was very, very beautiful, like it was really pure acting, and we had time and space to to to to create this beautiful movie in a short space of time. In five weeks we did it. Um, but goodness me, it's a lovely piece of work. It's very it's very different from anything I've done before. But yeah, as you your question

about playing Jesus is quite daunting. And then and then, and I started reading books, and I was reading all these books that sort of disprove the son of God part of Jesus's story and this is probably who he really was, and this is probably there was other preachers and this and that, and I realized I was as reading them, that they were entirely unhelpful because I was to be playing Jesus, who is the son of God, who is in the desert trying to communicate with his father,

and as being frustrated that he's not able to do so. So um, I put all those books aside, and I started thinking about our son, a man who is having problems communicating with his dad. And I love and get on very well with my father. So however, I am a son of a father, and I could I could start, I could recognize some of those some of those um ideas in there, and once I started focusing on that,

it became much easier. And then Don Cheetle, Yes, Miles ahead, you must have just felt like you were on set with Miles Davis. Did every day on that philm I keep saying to people, I did this great film with Miles Davis. Don cheedle every time, because partly I made a film with Don Cheetle, and partly I made a film with Miles Davis. I mean, he was so convincing

down in that role. And also he's he's an actor who stays in character between takes and um so I was sort of directed by Miles Davis, which isn't easy because Miles Davis wasn't quite as nice a guy as a lot of my acting notes came from Miles. You know, man,

what are you doing like this? But it was great fun. Again, it was incredibly brave um endeavor by Dawn because he has a very short amount of time to shoot the movie, in a little amount of money to make it for and you know, due to his talents and the talents of his Crewer nailed it. I think it's a really brilliant film. It's really a movie about music, and it's a musical movie. It's quite quite brilliant in its in its its flavor. Again, quite unique and also a directorial debut. Yeah,

so did you guys compare notes? Well, I I did it before we shot Miles, before I even know now I was going to direct before American Pastoral, so um. But I did watch him like a hawk while we were working because I've never been directed by the actor before, and it was interesting. It was different for me in a way. And you know, there's a sort of unwritten rule in acting that you never and and people who are actors should listen to this, that you never tell

the other actor what to do. I would never dream of it. And it's a big no no. You know, you've given you you speak to the actor about what you're about, and the other actor gives you what they're going to give you, and you have to roll with that, you know. But in this situation, and in my situation, of course, you do have to tell the other actor

what to do. It's your job because you're directing and acting, and so it's a bit awkward for the first few scenes and for you to tell, you know, to give ideas to the other actor, but also for the other actor to get those ideas from their acting partner is a bit a bit strange, So you know, you have to be delicate with that to begin with. And then what I think in my experience, I hope and certainly in my experience with Dawn, was that it becomes a

very inclusive thing. You know, the actors feel very much part of the work that you're creating. I had really strong ideas about what I what I wanted to do, and Martin ru and I spent many hours and days planning scenes, talking about how they should feel, how they how we might shoot them. As this scene going to be shot in one shot. I wanted to do that with some of the scenes. Is this a scene that

needs a lot of coverage? And we really mapped out a sort of pre idea that I would have a say a game, I could be over here, say daquotas there and we would come up with shots, you know, And we had that at that plan, but it was always understood that plan was going to change when we got on set, and we needed to have the guts and the freedom to change it if we wanted, and we did, and we would what We would mainly start off on the scene just with me and the other

actors in the room alone. It was quite odd at first because we would say the first assistant was say, okay, clear the set for the director and the actors, and everyone would leave and it would just be me and Jennifer and me and Dakota, and I'd be looking over my shoulder for the director to I realized it was it was me. And so then we would work on the scene and because would start saying, look, this is what I imagined, this is what my thought was. What

do you think. We would try it, and then we would add to it or change it, or sometimes just leave it as it was, and then we would get Martin to come in and have a look at it, and we would decide on the shots. And but but because of that process, I think the actors felt I hope, so I felt really involved in the creating of these scenes. You know. I I know as an actor, I never like to walk on a set and be told what

I'm doing. I don't like to be shown what the stat what the standing has done with the director before I've arrived. Well, he was over there, so there's your market. He boks over there, And I think, well, you should just have got the standing to do the bar then, because I'm not a sort of puppet, you know. Um so I would never direct like that, and I didn't,

and I think it makes the actors feel. I love it as an as an actor, when you're when you're involved in in the creating of a scene, in creatively involved in that. Yeah. Uh, you get asked about Star Wars all the time, so I apologize upfront, but I think this is a different question. You know, You're work in those movies is nothing if not immortal, just by nature of that enterprise. Obviously, I think the New Lucas film and Kathy Kennedy that they're kind of stewards of

your work now. They are going to the movies they're making now, are going to just ensure that this franchise continues to live on long after you're gone. Essentially, you're Obi Wan Kenobe is going to be edged in stone, and I would imagine that part of the artist's goal is to have some form of longevity. So do you ever think about your working star Wars with that in mind?

Is that kind of trippy to just know that the image you struck in that movie, the performance you gave, the role you helped carve out, is going to have such a life for so long. I don't spend any time thinking about it at all, not really, But I mean, it is a peculiar. It is unique in that respect. It is a film that keeps getting seen. Yeah, and I know, and and and usually with each new film I think people go back to the old films again. It seems like that, I guess. I mean, I don't.

I don't fully understand it. I'm not sure quite how George did it or because because it strikes into the minds of young kids all over the world all the time, and it's it's it's still as big for little kids now as it was for me when I was a little and that's I don't really understand how he managed to do that. It's really part of our fabric somehow in a way that other movies aren't. I don't I don't begin to understand how he managed to do that.

I'm very happy to be part of it. I always felt like that I was I was enormously excited to be part of them, um, and I'm very happy to be in them. I found that I've always been open about the process was not easy for me. I didn't like the blue screen environment that it became. You know, the first the first one we shot had lots of sets and and it was and and then the more they went on Episode two and three became more and more like working in a big blue space or a

big green space. You know, we'd finished set, we're work on one stage and they go, okay, we're in the wrong stage, go to stage five, and we'd leave one big green empty space to go over onto stage five, which was a big blue empty space, you know. And it was months of it, and I found that difficult As an actor, it's just not I mean, it's much easier to be in a set that's the right set with actors and who are the right actors. And however,

it sort of horns the skill. It's another skill. You still have to be believable in those films, still have to portray a character. And I hope I did Alec Guinness proud or just I hope I you know, I didn't let him down because I was trying to portray

him as a young man. And that was an interesting experience too to go back to watch lots of Alec Guinness's early work, which was thrilling because I came across lots of films that I hadn't seen before, one of which was called The Card, which I just adore, and I got to see his early work and then try and bring sort of me, try and bring me and the young Alec Guinness together somehow to do what I did in those films, and um, you know, I hope

I did. I hope I did him justice there. I know a lot of people would love to see you. You've addressed it before. Do like an obi Wan movie. Yeah, here's my pitch, and it looked this is for lucasfilm, this is for free Get you and Rodrigo and Chivo back together and go back out into the desert. Shoot the obi Wan in the desert movie. Very minimal. Maybe he brings out a lightsaber to like cook something, and then that's the one time you see a light or something.

It would be just this minimalist Star Wars movie. People would not know what hit them. Yeah, that could be trippy, That could be cool. All right, I'll speak to my people there you go, ok uh, Mulan Rouge fifteen years ago? Oh is this? Can you believe that goodness a teen years ago this year? Yes, that's right, that's right. No, I mean that that talk about feeling in the right place at the right time, that was extraordinary. Like working on those sets was like being in the Mulin Rouge

in Paris, sol that we were in Australia. It was an extraordinary experience. I was talking about it recently. Was somebody, um, just how amazing it is to work with music and with and to work with somebody as fantastical and imaginative as Basler and his his partners, as Katherine Martin who's his designer and production designer and costume designer. It's really wonderful and the best films and we worked the work on it was phenomenal. We worked on it for months

before we started shooting. I mean, we were all there for it. We did a two week workshop and then we went away and then six months later we came back. I mean that two week workshop was like working songs and movement a bit, and then we presented it like a play, reading to all the creative people, but it was like a real event. It was like a show, you know. And then we all went away. Six months later we came back and we started rehearsals, and the

rehearsals were I think three or four months. We did dancing every day, singing every day, um, working on scenes. The scenes were totally constantly being rewritten. Work we would we would do on scenes would then be incorporated into the next draft. So we really felt as actor as that we were being involved in the whole process. We had long chat you know, discussed with bars about even storyline, about what happened with the prince at the end and at the duke at the end, and then we started

to shoot. And by the time we started to shoot, it was completely second nature to break into song or break into a dance, which is why it's seamless in a way. It doesn't have that awkward when we're in a song moment a lot of musicals have. It's an interesting genre that I think could be explored in more creative ways. Here's a film this year, La La End that that does it in just a brilliant way. And yeah,

I remember at the time. I remember at the time that it came out head Big and The Angry Inch also came out, and it was a It was a musical movie, and I felt very much at the time that that was I thought, oh God, that this I

really felt like musical movies were back. I thought with Moon Rosion Hedwig, I thought that this is the start of something new, because I felt like Headig really had a contemporary It was completely modern musical on film that was brilliant um and Ours was big and colorful and and and and and enormous, and I felt like it was going to spark off a new wave of musical which hasn't really happened. And then I wished it would. I'd like to try. I'd like to try and do

I mean, there's the Irish film Once Again. That's that's that I think as a that's where we could go with it, where where it doesn't have to be huge, and they don't have to be numbers. It can just be we can incorporate music as part of the storytelling organically and chanically and in a contemporary way, and in a small way like Once, which is so moving and and simple, like there's no explanation for anything. She's you know, you can see as she's walking down from the shop

going back to her flat. You can see people, kids in the street looking in the camera and it just doesn't matter, you know. I think I'm inspired by that kind of thing. So I'd love to be part of more musical work on film. I think it would be amazing. And then last thing here Train Spotting two. Yeah, you know, obviously huge fan base for that first film. In fact, I think I think people are just nervous at them at the idea of a of a sequel to the

film that they love. So what can you tell them to assuage any kind of nerves they might have to be afraid? I don't know. Working with Danny again, I mean, it was amazing to work with Danny again and the boys and everyone. It was great to be back. It was a sort of very We each talked about it, Johnny and you and Bremner, Robert Carlisle. We talked about stepping back in their shoes of renting and Spud and

sick Boy and Begbie. It was sort of a little scary, the idea that maybe you wouldn't be able to get back in there, or you know, trying to be back in the skin of a character you last played twenty years ago, before you knew a lot of the things you know now do in the business as well, and just how how you perform and just your trade and your craft and everything that kind of makes you a

different person. It makes you a different person. And then and also you just because of this, because the love people have for the film and the love that we have for the film, and how important the movie was, and in terms of the movie, the movie history, and in terms of for all of our careers, it was a big, big deal. And we all felt very protective over the original film, and so there was a sort of trepidation about getting back in there and would we be able to do it, and would it would it

feel right? Would it? But then, of course all of those worries somehow fits so beautifully into the minds of the characters in the movie that John Hodges so brilliantly crafted that it was never an issue once we started the first once we all had our first scene done, we were all back, you know, and it felt really good. It felt really easy. It was like it was like

meeting an old friend again. Um, where time doesn't really you might not have seen each other for ten years, but in actually fact, when you start chatting, it doesn't feel like a day's past. It was like that, and it was great to be back on set with Danny, who have missed and you know, I loved all the work I did with him is some of the most important work that I've ever done for me, and so I've sort of missed working with him over these years, and it felt really good to be back on set

with him. Awesome. I can't wait to see that. I can talk to you about a number of other things like beauty and the Beast being part of that and stuff, but I don't want to take too much more of your time. But do tell me. Have you recorded your part for that? We did. We did it. We've done it lovely luckily several times. We did it while they were shooting the film in London over a year ago, and uh, and then of course since they finished the film,

we've gone back and done it and we do. You know, I'm I'm Problumar at the Candelabra, Yes, and so we played We did have some real live action on set as well as being animated, so we got to record the role, acting the role, and then I had some musical numbers to record too, which was great. It was nice to sing again. That'll be fun. Yeah, well great, man Will. Congrats on the movie in good luck with it as it goes out into the marketplace American pat Store.

And thanks for being a guest on my podcast. Man, I appreciate my great pleasure. Thanks for having me. It's all right. Thanks again for listening everyone. Remember to subscribe and check back next week. You've been listening to playback at Variety