Christian Bale & Sam Rockwell / "Vice"

Sam Elliott for their stunning performances. Varieties Film critic Owen Gliberman has called the film a total emotional knockout, and Los Angeles Times critic Justin Chang said, from the first frame, it casts a spell, the kind that lets you know immediately that you're in good hands. A star is born for your consideration in all categories. You're listening to Playback a Variety I Heart radio podcast. I'm your host, Variety

Awards editor Chris Tapley. This week, I'm talking to the stars of Adam McKay's Vie, Christian Bale and Sam Rockwell. The two star as former Vice President and former President Dick Cheney and George W. Bush, respectively. In the film, we talked about early days, getting their start and acting, separating personal political beliefs from playing these characters and a whole lot more. It's a pretty awesome and lively conversation. I think you'll enjoy it. So sit tight. This is

playback shape. This gentle into looking pretty good yourself. Handerson, who what it was before? But you look like you can go do so dislay right now. I'm hanging in there. I just put on that table behind you, circus. Okay, we just want a clear table, Howard Port Is that really No, it's not the end of the world, is it? Go on, I'll do it for you. I just wanted to hear that I'm giving after just I just wanted to make a stand a little bits the iPhone. Yeah,

there's no place being at the table. But what you're doing photos are we're talking right now. I really want to tell you about it, but you know about oh man, I just you know. I can't believe. But that's that might be the funniest thing about this. It's almost like you guys do this for a living, not this, not this. Nobody gives you training in this, do they. It's like you do well, I didn't take training in any of it, but you do that not being the screen. Yes you

go yeah, I don't do this. I wonder if they should do that. We've got to have people that are like, come in and what do they call media training or something like that. I just teach you how to be around media or something like that. I don't know. Thanks dude, Thanks, thanks, You guys are good like that. I think directional mix YadA, YadA, YadA, YadA YadA. And thanks again for coming on. We're rolling. Yeah, it's just swimming on me. I have a watch, but I just that's why I always do now. I like

a watch. But you know, it's not a necessity, you know, it was, it's it's a gift. It was a gift. We're here everyone with as they're talking about their their timekeeping practices. We're here with Christian Bale and Sam Rockwell, stars of Adam McKay's vice, Bush and Cheney themselves. Thanks again for coming back on the show Man for having me. I thought it would be interesting to really have you two together, because first of all, when did you guys meet?

How long ago? Years ago? Yeah, we were in Italy something like that, Italy and a villa, having a wonderful time getting paid nothing. We got paid in wine, remember, But you were on a strict diet. You were eating those skinless chickens. That's because I had been. I was kicked off of American Psycho, but I just refused to accept that I wasn't going to make it. So I was still getting ready for you, even though all of a stone in the camp you were already kicked off

and you you were still prepping. What that doesn't What do you mean because I've insane? Man? You were just like still doing it. Yes, I remember we were all eating pasta and you were. You had these like I was eating like hardly anything that sticking to the diet and all that. And I was calling Mary Harron and she'd be on holiday and she'd be going, Christian, please, can you just give it up? And I'll go, no, I'm not giving it up. It's look at that. And

then he did and eventually it came back around. But you know, during that time, I was actually kicked off the Bloody Project. During the during while we're in Italy. What's the context here? What the context is? So it made me some of the streams together in Italy and they paid us in crates a wine they would they would deliver. We all lived in one villa. It was kind of active who was in that house and Kevin Clins in a separate David Streuth, the Sessions, John Session, John, Yeah,

John Sessions, who's hilarious. Um, a bunch of people and a frel and a freel man. Yeah yeah. And in the West we're all living together in a villa. And what they said to us is, we can't pay you anything, but you'll live very nicely, which meant we will deliver regular crates of wine to you. And they did that good good food. Yeah, and so doing that. And at the same time, I've been kicked off of American Psycho after having done like age readings and whatnot and raising

the financing with Mary. But then the finances had come on and said yeah, we'll fund it, just not with you. Guys. We got kicked off, and I just kept on saying myself the power of denial. And you found out I said that. I said, I'm still making this film. I don't care what they're saying. I'm still prepping. So I just kept prepping as though it was going to happen. Mary was telling me please please stop calling her because like we're off the film. But then love the whole

look at that. It all came back around funny. For some reason, I thought you went back further than that, Like did you ever cross paths? Like you know, that's the first time I remember. Yeah, I just remember, like doing that play in front of you guys. Yeah, But I don't I don't know. I don't know if we did or nothing, like probably did somewhere like like the auditions or anything like that, like you might. I didn't know if they it went back that far or not.

But oh, I don't know. I can't remember that. You might. We might have wronged in different you might have been were you in l A? And I was so I'm always so bad. I was always so Thank god I don't have to do auditions anymore. I was always so bad at auditions. I've never really engaged with anyone in the hallway waiting because I was just busy banging my head against the wall trying to get myself to stay, knowing I was about to give the worst performance ever.

I was standing that whenever I was doing an audition, the director if they did cast me, which was rare, but when they did, they would say, you were really bad in the audition. But the conversation suggested you might get it together by the time we actually film, because I don't know how to audition. It's nothing like actually making a film. There's nothing like it. It's a different muscle,

totally different. And some people do that brilliantly, and then they get on set and you go, oh what happened. Other people can't audition, but you get them on set and you go, oh, yeah, that's it. Yeah, it's a totally different muscle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I wanted to go back because the way you both broke in in TV and also on the TV movie Anastasia, and then with you you were you were doing Equalizer and stuff like this. What would Yeah, no, yes, that's right, what would?

I used to love watching that. John Gilgai said his name was like a fart in the bath, breaking Moran. Oh my god. Wow. But yeah, you know, just at that time, it means late eighties, mid mid eighties for you breaking in in the TV world. I just wanted to kind of get your two separate experiences with that. And then you go off you work with you know, Spielberg,

and you work with Christopher Lee. You did TV before that, you did the TV film I did were The first thing I did was comedy in the West End with Brown Atkinson. You're other than doing like commercial under the commercial when I got a pair of d ms and a rubic snake of it, and then I got a job working in the West End doing a Ron Atkinson company. That's great. So you were a kid, I was. We were both kids on stage. Yeah, that's that's interesting. Another.

I mean, you probably don't have another obviously don't have a different context, but starting the career that young, especially you, But you know, what do you think that did to you as an actor? What did did it? Is? Is it like baked into who you are even more because you got started so early, or you know what do you think I think it makes you? I mean, I think it makes like Chris Walkin was a stage kid. I think it makes you I was. I was. He was like song and dance kids, and he had a

stage mom and his brother. And I think it makes you a little bit like I mean, we've talked about it a little bit, and it makes you a little like feel like an alien a little bit. I don't know about you, but I feel a little I think it because you see stuff at an early a age, you know, like Bob Fosse who you know, and I think you you you sort of get you have to grow up a little quicker. I don't know what your experiences,

but that's kind of my I feel a little. I would feel a little bit odd when I went back to school to a normal life with kids, because I'd seen adult stuff. You know, it's been at the circus, you know, and it's it's it's interesting. I didn't do films. He did films, but my mom was in the circus. My mom was a circus performer. Really yeah, he's serious. And I would go watch her and do all that and should be a clown and elephants and stuff like that,

and so I'd see that. But then I had a family member fool very ill and right at that moment. My sister was actually the one who was into acting and interested in it in theater and whatnot. But we only had one car, so I would always have to drag along with her. And I was always, oh god, I've got going on whatever she's doing. I'll be sitting around, you know whatever amateur thing backstage. And they said to me,

how about you try. You're right for this role. So I started doing it, and it suddenly got offered money. My family needed that money because remember was ill and we were we were having a lot of archer we were going to move around, I staying at different people's houses and stuff, and so it became that that was the intro for me was oh, bloody l it's as the breadwinner because and that was burning. So I hated it.

I did it, but I hated and then I was just talking about this, actually about and then and then realizing, but look, this might give me opportunities I've never dreamed of and travel and etcetera and all that and uh, and also going I'm kind of stuck. I can't not do this because how can I say to my family I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to earn that money that we need. And so I started looking around and it was Gary Old, but I would I would see Gary's films and go, he is fantastic.

He is really good. If I'm stuck doing this, I want to be as good as he is. And that was my inspiration as a teenager. I hate doing this. I want to give it up. But if I'm if I'm going to do this, I'd like to do something like he does. And I just told him that a couple of weeks ago. Um, yeah, and then and then and then one of the actual passion for it kicking. It's sort of gradually came in. But I think it's a I don't think it's an unhealthy level of love

and hate. Yeah about that last year, Yeah, I think I don't think that's an unhealthy Yeah, how about you say much that's a fascinating So we started about the same age, do we? Yeah? I think I was ten, Yeah, when I got my d MS in the room snake. But that's amazing about your mom in the circus, that's incredible. I mean, yeah, my mom was uh, improvisational theater actress and and and she knew a bunch of crazy kind of downtown and I got thrown into place. She didn't

have a babysit. You money for a babysitter. So I go to the rehearsals. She was saying telegrams and then I just ended up. Somebody said when you throw the kid in the play, and oh, that's crazy. Didn't do improv? Yeah, And so that was like an improv based show, and

that's how I got into it. But but yeah, I do relate to that, that kind of there's a there's a thing about when you're a kid, you know, you don't want to you want to be playing and you know, going to sleep at a normal hour, And so I think there is a little resentment when you're a kid and you grow up in it. You're doing stuff that you know you should be going to bed early, and you're up staying up late with the adults, and it's not normal. And I think there is a little bit

of that hate love thing. I I kind of relate to that. And then nothing. It is a very natural thing for kids to role play, right an act, Yeah, they stop it when they feel like stopping it. They don't. You don't, no, no, no, no, You've got to keep going. But I don't want to do it anymore, no more. You do have to. So that's the big difference. Thinks, very natural instinct and very healthy thing to act and perform a role playing all that, but not on someone

else's schedule. Most kids, you have to go, yeah, I'm done, now, let's go ride my bike. Yeah, you know you're on the clock until this time. And you well, that's what I love about what was Clintics would always say whenever you're ready, didn't say action. He says whenever you're ready. Yeah, I kind of because that's kind of isn't that it right there? It's like it's like take away those strictures. Yeah, you want to do it for yourself. You want to do it because you want to be like your old man.

You want to you know, um, you don't want to do it because you have somebody's making it because I want to snapping their fingers. Essentially, like your best work when you're doing it for yourself. Never, you never. If you do it for yourself, you're gonna do good work. If you do it for somebody else, you're not going. And then how about for you? Like when did the passion for it actually kick in for you? I think

I was. I was similar where I sort of sucking off and I was I was, um, I was getting stone in high school and chasing girls, and then I kind of I didn't take it seriously because it was also in the blood, so I took it for granted. And then I went to New York when I was eighteen, and I started getting jobs, but I really didn't know what I was doing. And then I went and trained at this with this guy William Mesper and then I was sort of obsessed with Robert de Niro and all

that kind of stuff. And then Gary and Malkovich and John Taturo were on the scene, you know, and they were like, you remember John Thurrow Miller's crossing was like

that scene Malkovich and you know everything you know. Um, but Gary Oldman was one of those guys and and so, and then I just was were you watching all that Robert DeNiro movies and you know, John Boyd and and then uh, and then I realized, oh, this is uh, this isn't a lark, this is a calling, this is a this you know, Darry said not to be pretentious, but it can be a noble profession. It is a

craft and and it's something to work at. And so I think then I was when I was like twenty four or something, I was like, Okay, I should be more serious about this and not just take it for granted. Yeah. Funny you mentioning Gary Oldman because I had a note here. I had Gary on the show last year. We're talking about you had another immersion that he had last year into a role with the makeup and everything, and then you both are are working in some serious makeup with

this movie. So him just curious about you know, just crafting the visage and everything is is a huge part of this movie. So just talk to me about that, like especially with you Christian working under a lot of makeup and about that, because yeah, because um, you know, I, I we we we have very different approaches, uh to it. Because I had said, well, I don't know how to do this except for I've got to gain the white you know myself. Uh, And I was, I was in

the middle of doing that. I was probably you know, you know, a large toddler, bigger than I had begun already, you know. And and then I see that Gary has done that. So I caught up Gary and said, well, how much weight did you gain? And he said I didn't gain any weight? And I went no, no, no, no, no, Gary, how much weight did you gain, you know, for the role doing that? And he was like, just told you for the Winston Churchill And he said, no, I just

told you. I didn't gain anything. I wait what he said, I didn't get a pound? How was that even possible? He said, no, no, nothing at all. So I was already well down the track of sort of you know, putting on a lot of weight myself. But you know, the understanding that now things have come that was very Oh absolutely, but I didn't understand that it comes such a long way, you know, at that point. And then

and then it was possible. I always thought when people said, oh, we'll just stick on the fat, so I was like, oh, you're naive creature. It's that doesn't work like that. Um. But so yes, I would completely rethink the way I would do it now. But I was already well down track, and like I was like, but Gary, I've already put on this much weight and I've grown my neck like four inches, you know. I mean, but you're like you're like a crazy person, like Robert de Narrow, like the machinist.

I mean, I mean you're like a crazy like you're like, you know, it's nuts like you. I mean, is it like me in admirable way? I mean admirable nuts. I say, I say that with the adoration respect. I couldn't do I don't know if I could do that. It's it's admirable nuts to you. So nuts, I always I keep saying, never again, Yeah, Okay, We're just gonna pause here for a moment and have a quick word from our sponsors. Will be right back here with Christian Bale and Sam Rockwell.

This episode of Playback is brought to you by Warner Brothers. A Star is born. As we talk about important films of this past year, this one is top of mind, emotionally resonating with critics and audiences, and the film's director, Bradley Cooper is being recognized for his brilliant work as a filmmaker and actor, along with his cast Lady Gaga

and Sam Elliott, for their stunning performances varieties. Film critic Owen Gliberman has called the film a total emotional knockout in Los Angeles Times, as critic Justin Chang said, from the first frame, it casts a spell, the kind that lets you know immediately that you're in good hands. A star is born for your consideration in all categories. All Right, everyone, We're back here with Christian Bale and Sam Rockwell, the

stars of Adam McKay's Vice. Uh, you did a good job being on the weaight, sir, you did a good job of losing it too. I was gonna ask you how you lost it if you don't mind sharing. Did you just stop eating? Yeah, pretty much, just go to bed hungry and be miserable. Yeah. When we spoke last year, yeah, you had the day before, you had you had just wrapped the day before actually, and you were just happy to kind of relinquished Cheney for a little bit. So, you know, I wanted to talk about that. It's a

character that. First of all, I just want to say I loved the film. It's it's phenomenal, and I actually I had such a weird experience watching it. I felt incredibly empty after I finished watching it. I just felt like I stared on to the boy because I just watched a portrait of a soulless individual. In my opinion, that's what I just finished watching. And I was staggered

at at at the person I had just seen. And so, uh, I know that's not your approach, though, because you when we spoke last year, you you you said you told Adam that you were going to really I'm at it trying to understand that. Yeah. Yeah, and just just so uh so obviously a different perspective. And have you seen the film yet? Numerous times? Okay, because because Sam hadn't seen it yet, and it's interesting because it seems like so much footage might have been shot that didn't make

it into the movie. So I'm very curious once you see it, what you think, you know, But talk about that like like the balance of you are in it. Yeah, yeah, you didn't make the cut. You didn't make the cut, the balance of you know, any feelings you might have about the man versus pushing that away to play the man, and then the same for you know, you absolutely have to do that. Um, there's no interest to me in uh making a film where it's my opinions in their

my opinions. I want to remove completely. You know, Adam is the story Eacheller and we agreed early on. Let me counter his um uh points of view, let me advocate for Cheney, let me try to convince him, because I do believe Trainey he's very strong, mind minded individual. Um, the nature of what does it mean to be a patriot? You know? I mean that that's a that's a real amorphous word, isn't it. You know, It's it's like obsession, right, It be a healthy thing, it can be incredibly unhealthy

as well. But he certainly believes that what he did is right and correct and patriotic and good for the American people, whereas you will get other people who will say he's absolutely patriotic and and say he's a war criminal. You know, So that that disparity there, But for me to truly try to understand where he was coming from, um, to try to see the motivations and hopefully the good

motivations in it. To look at his personal life as well, his devotion to Lynn, to his family, is embracing of Mary when she came out immediately, even though it was an athema to the rest of the party at that time. Um. Uh. There is, of course, you know, the enormous thing here though,

of the Iraq war, enhanced interrogation, one of us white tapping, etcetera. Um. But how somebody can come to believe that these are American values um, and believe in American exceptionalism um in a way that is so vastly different from the way that other people American exceptionalism. But certainly not wanting to

put my own politics into it. You know, the difference between Adam and Sam, myself, Amy, Steve is you're looking at Sam and me and Amy and Steve on the screen, and so we can be a terrible distraction to the film if you know too much about our own ideas we want, we want, you know, just look and see the characters, you know. So for me, it's Adam's place to be as political as he wants, but for me to try and stay, you know, somewhat neutral as far

as the viewer is concerned. Of course, I've got my own opinions, very strong ones, but that's not why I do. You know, I portray other people, uh not me. But

it was a fascinating exploration. You know. He's a fascinating individual, very complex, very very strong minded and hardline, but lots of ambiguity at the same time, you know, having this incredible ambition and many would say arrogance, but also being quite self sacrifice and giving up his own dreams of the presidency, you know, being a real zealot for the unitary executive, but which is for the president, He's not for him directly, but seeing the opportunity obviously with w

being able to have his perfect scenario of working in the shadows but truly controlling m everything. But he's he's a remarkably complex individual. I came away from the movie with a big question mark of why though. I mean, I don't want to get into a political discussion, but just that's what I was left with, was all of

this hunger for power to what end and why? And it seems the answer to you as he's a patriot, he thought he was being a patriot, and I just it's just not it's not the vibe I gap from what Adam made, you know. I just I got a very very mysterious portrait out of it that I just could not understand why the man wanted what he wanted

and what he did. I do UM find though, that this to me transcends chainey, that it does become a character um study um, an incredibly humorous one, an absurdest one at moments, which is Adam's rule talent of being able to take something which is very profound in moments and absolutely tragic and diabolical, but also to be able to find the entertainment and the humor as well, which

always have to go hand in hand. Um. But to me it transcended just Chaining was also a reflection about what it means to be a person, to be a family, to be a nation, I found it moving beyond the leaf. I was sort of almost embarrassed and surprised that I was crying with laughter and I was crying from sadness. Uh. And I kind of see it also as as a

love story to America. I think that it's it's it's you know, America has always been a country of great contradictions, with these beautiful ideals and beautiful dreams that make it exceptional and that the rest of the world look to and have been inspired by. You know, there are many other free countries now around the world, but many of

which were inspired by America's um. But then the dark underbelly that has always existed, you know, I mean obviously slavery and you know, considering some people to be three fifths of person, etcetera, and all that and then continues to this day of people who believe that in order to have those freedoms, you are allowed to act in a way that it is absolutely opposing to what we judge,

you know, America's standards to be um. That's fascinating, and I think that's fascinating not only to Americans, but to the to the entire world, because America has an enormous influence and not just politically but emotionally to it because it is a very unique country. Yeah, how about you Sam, similar question. I mean, just divorcing any feelings you might have from playing the character. Yeah, I mean what what

what Christians about being juxtaposing Adam's job. I think it's really important to kind of it's our job to find the humanity in the character. That's our responsibility. And it's also it's George W. Through Cheney's point of view too. But um, I think that that's that's what's that's what's sort of my job is to kind of just make him as human as possible, you know, in spite of the very famous way that he talked, you know, which

is a little daunting. But um but yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's just working with when whenever you're you're working with somebody like like Christian or Francis mcdormott

or Gary Oldman or Joaquin Phoenix. For right now, I'm wearing the show Alimes, you go go in loaded for bear, You're going no, when you're you're gonna fight Frasier or you're gonna you're going into like You're like you better be on your a game, you know, because I know he's gonna be on his A game, so and that, and then it's a very famous guy, so it's a it's it's a you're you're you're tingling with you know, creativity because you're scared and you're like you want it

to be, you know, really good. And I think that's what was so fun about us on set working together, you know. Yeah, and he really did get thrown to the deep end. But also that because the very the scene that you see in the trailer when we discuss it really gonna am I on and on, you know, it's chiny on and on. It's that is the VP. That was Sam's very first say. But it was also the first time I actually sat down and spoken as Cheney every other scene, working from one him to the other,

getting the gate right, doing all that. It was for me also the first time I sat down and we had I don't know how long the original take of that was, but it was long, and it already gets cut down, but were off the minute. We're doing a lot of improv and stuff, and it was fantastic and it was hilarious, but it was we're discovering it at the same time, and it helped me a great deal because I would talk to and not to jump in. There's no other way to do it with these characters.

He was, he was staying in it, and so I tried to stay in it. But we talked about normal things like like Steves on right and other things, and it was fun and I was like, all right, let's do this. And I actually me and Michelle are doing a little bit of that right now, but in and out, you know. But but it's it's a fun way to work,

you know. And also, when you're like a supporting player and you have done leads, you have an incredible amount of compassion for the lead actor because even though this felt like bigger than a supporting role, it because I think because of the daunting task of who this guy is.

But but you you you know that he's getting up at two in the morning, and you have and you just you know, if you've done lead roles and you're doing a supporting you have a you have an understanding and a respect for what kind of hours this person is keeping, you know, and you want to be there for them and and that kind of thing. Yeah, thank you should. Yeah, it's probably nice to show up first day and just have a plate of fried chicken. You're gonna be digging into the whole time. Yea, yeah. Uh.

And you never met Bush. I know you never met changing, but no, cigar, you said you did try that. I did try. Yeah, what what did you hope to glean from him? If you did? I want you know what I would have done. Really, The main thing is have him take my lines in a tape of quart and do some alts. That's what I would have done. I did that with Chuck Barriss. I would have done that with him. But if he was willing, I thought you

would have loved it. Yeah, I think he would have too, But I never I would have hadn't recorded my lines and say and I would say, what do you think would what would you say if you don't like this line? What would you say instead? And then I would bring that to Adam and go, this is what you know. And the way Bush is used in the movie is kind of I mean, he's kind of used his color

in a way. Obviously he's playing there Adams playing up the comedic elements of the character in terms of how we're going to few him as an audience and I just wondered if that, with everything you've said about trying to be true to the to the you know, the reality and the emotion of the character taken. I'm just curious if the way Bush was being used in the project at all made you wanted to play a caricature

in any way. No, I mean never, never, never, I mean, you gotta it's gotta be real, you gott you can't. The the impression has to take back seat to the acting, so the you know, to the reality always I think, I mean I was saying this earlier, but you know, you know, we don't. I don't think we're we we want to see Daniel de Lewis do an impression of Abe Lincoln or what he imagines Abe Lincoln to be.

I think we're seeing some of Daniel dey Lewis's attributes that he imagines Lincoln would have, sensitivity, the intelligence, etcetera. And we don't. You're not going to give a shit if you don't see that actor's hard and soul coming through and just an impression. I mean, both characters. We've seen people do fantastic, yeah, impressions, you know, much of it um during Adams Days Saturday that life, you know. So that's it's great and it's brilliant and it's good,

but you can't do that's not a two hour film. Yeah, you've gotta get the essence of the character an impersonation. Uh did you reach out to anyone in their circles? Did you? Did it seem appropriate to do so? Yeah? Well I thought I I very much. I did all. I did a lot of research thinking how I'm gonna reach out because I've always met with every real person

I've ever played, um, but they weren't public figures. And that's what the big difference ultimately came down to, was that I did all this research and I thought, you know, it'll either just tell me you know what you told Patrick lay on the Senate floor, and it will be well that would be enterchaining just to be told that. Um, you know, but if he did give me the time of day, I better know everything because I thought it'll

grill me. So I really did a research and then I called and I said I'm ready, I want I want to reach out, and I got told within like five minutes, no, you cannot do that. If you bumped into him accidentally and chatted with him makes it different, but you're reaching out directly. That leaves the movie legally vulnerable. So I don't even begin to understand all of that particulately. I do, really, I just don't want to get into it and show that that that didn't happen. But but yeah,

but you know, um, I saw this before. I see if it come up quick enough. But I have you know, on your phone arm and you look at this. You know, people in places, Look who's on my people in places? They it's me, it's my daughter. And because I've just got I've got all these wonderful things where you can bring up you know they do, uh, the iPhone does

the memories. Yeah, yeah, it's hundred with Dick Cheney with uplifting music behind there and then little seatements and he goes well the weapons around the music, and some of it is intermingled with my family Oh my god moments and all that iPhone has gone. Clearly this person is vital. I think he must thinks he's the granddad or something. He kill he's part of the family. So all of our family memories all have suddenly Dick Cheney coming into

middle because they've got so many videos on here. I think you work on You're very watching photographs and all that that my phone misunderstands and thinks that obviously this man that's going to happen forever until let's you started leading those decide to delete and I haven't quite gotten me yet. Keep in mind, horrid I think to play that, yeah, you have to be yeah, yeah, I mean that's yeah,

that's taking your work home. Um. I want to talk about Adams was just shooting style because as I've been saying, it seems like there's stuff in the trailer that's not in the movie. So it just seems like he's the kind of guy that shoots a lot of stuff and finds a lot of things in the editing. Maybe, but you know, you've obviously worked with him, and like before, what did you think about working with Adam on this one? Said,

I had a great time. I'd heard about Adam's improvisational kind of alt stuff, and so I prepared some some stuff, you know, just in case, and I think I bombarded you the first day. It was some of those um but yeah, I thought it was really fun. I had a good time. I like the looseness of it. I thought it was really really cool. Yeah, how was it different this time? I guess or did it feel different? Um? Just more involving, you know, I mean, it's it's it's yeah,

Adams got such an easy going where about him. It's such a good nature, even with all of the hours that you were mentioning and everything. You know, it's very often on films it's an intense environment and you know, sometimes you get attention and up and all that, and sometimes you sort of feel like, well that maybe that's needed because it happens so often on films, but because

people care about what they're doing. But on Adam's sex it really never happens at all star and uh, and you still get this wonderful uh and the result um, and that really does come from the director. But in terms of like the improv, this was a whole different kettle of fish, because it's not just a matter of, oh, what are the sayings that the guy would have from the region he is from, what's his history there? Ummane.

It's about understanding what his thoughts were on policy and what the policy was old and where it came from and what number it had. So my head was about to explode every day, not because of what was on the page, but because of what I had ready in my head in case anybody else decided to go off page, that I would be able to just go with it. So that was That was many hours of just staying

up and reading and rereading and listening. Again was the big short like that though too, because you did you remind me so, because I was totally isolated, you know, because the nature of Michael Bury was that he was in an office all by himself. So I shot that whole thing in nine days, so and it was very much him by himself, and the luxury and the real pleasure of going and sitting with Michael for a whole day and talking with him, and so I had all of that, you know. Yeah, you know I didn't. I

didn't get to go. Would you haven't taped your lines or have you ever done that thing kind of things? I've done that with people from areas with the correct dialect I had. Oh no, I did do it with the dick Yekman for the fire. Yeah, I had him read and it's the same aligns, you know, because you have no idea, you know, you never know. You might get a dialect, but then you've got the personal lydiosyncrasies where oh, Dicky, it says it actually like this, it's

nothing like everyone else. So yeah, that was really helpful. And it also just helps break the eyes. It's nice to just you want to spend quantity time with people and and and and it's a nice way of just hanging out together without to think about, oh, what do we talk about now? It's just you know exactly. Yeah, time is getting away from me. I'm gonna okay, you

guys lose. But before I let you go, there was one person that you I kind of wrote out a list of people that you've both worked with, you know, Ridley Scott McGee, Francis McDormand, but one person I really wanted to hear about from both of you, Sam Shepard. I worked with him on Jesse James Sam. You worked with him on Out of the Furnace Christians. So just

such great memories. I'd I'd love to hear anything. The first time that we uh met, we just they done one of those weak things you know sometimes where they almost never sit in a chair on a film set, right, but we were filming out in a forest and they put Sam in my chair like about two hundred yards away from everybody else. So Sam and I found ourselves sitting there with nobody or else around. I just had

the best discussion. He was just such a great conversations because we're funny and and I really what I regret is that he is that we didn't get together after because he had invited me down to that joint in Santa Fe. And and after, you know, sadly he passed that, I did find myself driving past it and I stopped and thought, man, I can't you know, you just think people are going to be around and you're gonna have more time. Particularly want to go and sit with him

when we're not acting, you know, together. And he would laugh at me because we had such different aisles of approach, you know, and we can look at you, dude, go on the let's try that. I never I've never bothered that much. But he was just brilliant. He was somebody special and and and even though you know, I didn't know for life or for for many years, just a few months that we spent together, really miss him because I expected to know him for years to come. Yeah,

how about you saying? Yeah, I felt that, Well, we all were on Jesse James that we were sort of going out one night. It was Garrett Della Hunt, Jeremy Renner and a bunch of us were gonna go go a night on the town and we were like, well, let's call Sam, you know, and and was like, well, you know, he's gonna maybe he justn't want to hang out. And I was like, now we should call him. You know, I think Paul snyders, let's call him. And he came

out with us. We had a great night, you know, and I think I asked him about Full for Love, which I ended up doing, and um, he was just so cool on Full for Love. You know. I had to learn the last so really quick and I was terrible at it. And he was funny about it. He was like, well maybe you're a bull rider or something, you know, and then he said, um we we said do you want to do you want? He rewrites, I'm

fool for Love? And he hit the most minimal stuff like he said, why don't you say, um, uh, just throwing goats, you know, just like little little things like that. He was just a cool guy. He just he he could tell you about would you mean throwing the wood? It was like there was there was like a diet some dialogue like comes stay with me and my my my ranch with this, this and this, and he just said, you know, like most playwrights would like change and entire

scene or something, and he just he didn't. He just like tweaked a little bit. And he but he he just knew about all kinds of I just knew he would tell you about how they make cigars and hit all this weird kind of actual stuff. He was just he told me. He did. He told me how to do that, and he introduced me to Poppy Van Winkles. Ah that's a good reduction. Wow. Yeah, that's a good introduction.

Well thanks for that. Uh, and go see the movie everyone, vice it opens Christmas Day holiday fund for the family. You should go check it out. It's I think it's one of the best movies of the year and you're both fantastic in it. So thank you again to both of you for coming back on the show. There you go, There you go. Thanks Thanks guys, Thanks a lot, Thanks a lot. Once again, this episode of Playback has been brought to you by Warner Brothers. A Star is born.

As we talk about important films of this past year, this one is top of mind, emotionally resonating with critics and audiences, and the film's director, Bradley Cooper is being recognized for his brilliant work as a filmmaker and actor, along with his cast Lady Gaga and em Elliott for their stunning performances varieties. Film critic Owen Glieberman has called

the film a total emotional knockout. In Los Angeles, Times critic Justin Chang said, from the first frame, it casts a spell, the kind that lets you know immediately that you're in good hands. A star is born for your consideration in all categories.