Bradley Cooper / "A Star Is Born"

and critics alike. Director John Chew redefined the romantic comedy genre with his thoroughly unexpected and genuinely relatable, groundbreaking film Entertainment Weekly calls Crazy Rich Agans hilarious, heartfelt, and historical. Peter Travers of Rolling Stone says Crazy Rich Asians is making history, and Jake Coyle of The Associated Press says, Hollywood, this is what you've been missing. Crazy Rich Asians for your consideration in all categories, including Best Picture. Now available

on DVD and Blu ray. You're listening to Playback, a Variety I Heart Radio podcast. I'm your host Variety Awards Editor Chris Tae. This week we're catching up with Bradley Cooper, the writer, director, star producer. You name It of a Star is Born, one of the most popular films of the year, closing in on two million dollars here in

the States. We dive into the craft of the film and his inspirations and making it, as well as conjuring the songs, working on that Sam Elliott voice, and a whole lot more so, Sit tight, this is playback, fresh air and now playback. How long was that power and forty minutes? Oh man, hope you're not tapped up. Well, you'll be the judge of that. Let's see. He's like some sort of weird like card game or something. We were like playing some sort of like test with all

the cars. This is just an interesting is where you always do it. That's where we always do it. How many years? Uh, just past two? How many of you done? About ninety six? We should be had a hundred before the end of the year. Top three. Man, Christian was good. Christian Bale, Yeah, I did him for Hostiles last year. Oh man, I loved him in that movie. Yeah, it's so good. Well, Scretta and Sarcial last year work. Oh yeah, I love that movie. I voted for that movie. Yeah,

I thought that was great. I love that movie. Really. I think that's like a perfect film, isn't it It is? It is a perfect movie. Every frame of that film, every character every word. It's such a beautiful construction. Totally. She crushed that. I heard the screenplay was incredible. She's such a natural. Just let's get this directional, Mike, So you're gonna be perfect like that, and we're already up

and running. Let's dive in. Alright, everyone, I'm here with Bradley Cooper, the writer, let's say hang on, writer, director, producer, starter, co writer, uh, songwriter, multi hyphenate of a Star is Born. One of the best movies of the year. Thank you for coming on the show. Appreciate I loved the movie. I'm I'm a huge fan, and I have to tell you I went in very skeptical because I haven't really taken to the story over the ages, and I actually thought you fixed a number of the things and I'll

get to it that have have bothered me along the way. Um, but yeah, I went in with like a show me attitude and I thought you nailed this. So first off the top of us once say congratulation, thank you, thank you for saying that, and people seem to dig it. I mean, you're cruising toward two hundred million here uh in the States and like three fifty plus worldwide. I mean,

it's this big phenomenon. I mean, first of all, knowing that it's having this impact, how does that make you feel as a first time director and you didn't know how? Absolute relief, total relief. It's the you know, it's funny. I can take my check up because it sounds like I'm in a I'm like on a parachute. That reminds me I'm a quick anecdote. My sound editor in film school told me the story of Rugger Howard coming into

do looping with all leather. Wow, so it just ruined it all anyway, I always think about that would be like the Elvis sixty eight suit exactly. That's how I want to picture Rugger Howard though, right, that's kind of yeah. I want to picture that father comes in and takes a motorcycli home and off ready to do some looping. But you were really bad? Is that his character's name? And Blade Runner? Yeah? He what one of my favorite characters in all films. Fantastic. Oh my gosh, isn't he incredible?

Of that movie? It makes you feel a lot and I want more life so good. I just got the four K of that. I just got four K TV, so that was the one I wanted to test it out. All. Yeah, there's a version. There's a an example of a movie where the director's cut is the only version of the movie I ever watched. I don't even watch The Fall with a voice over anymore. You don't know, because it's cheesy. I mean, that's the first that was my introduction to it was the first time I saw it, and I

loved it back then. Um, but once I saw the director's cut, that's just the movie. I've erased the other one from my brain. It's really interesting and the unicorn thing is beautiful. Oh it's beautiful, and just ending on the on the elevator. Yeah, you know, absolutely no car ride. You know, footage from the shining isn't that what he used or something? Some crazy But you're relieved, so you know when you I guess Venice was the first big reveal.

So it was that that was it when you were sitting down, I mean, just what what did that feel like knowing that you were about to I was terrified that day. I remember thinking I couldn't believe how how nervous I was. But I was like, wow, my stomach started turning and I thought, oh, my gosh, I was terrified. I was finally for for a couple of reasons. One I thought, oh my, you know, just the normal thing of am I gonna get laugh doubt? Are people going

to walk out? Like what's the worst case scenario? Like people literally just stopped leaving the theater during the movie. And the other one was, gosh, please don't lose this feeling of this overwhelming feeling of fulfillment that I have of this project because it was the exact movie I wanted to make, and that's why I'm here as a as a person. I'm so lucky that I know what

I want to do with my time. And and please don't let people saying that it's not good affect your your deep sense of this is what you're supposed to be doing and to keep doing it. And I remember being very conscious of that, like, no matter what happens inside that theaters were in the surreal boat with it pouring rain, which I was so happy it was raining. Um uh, just don't let whatever happens affect what you know to be true basically about what your road is

right now. And there was like a technical glitch too. For twenty minutes I went out, which is really fascinating and the truth once once the movie started again, during the twenty minutes, it was fine. I thought it was actually some cool, like you know, human experiment where you're what all these people are? You realize like, oh, there's all these people in this room and we're just waiting. And then so I actually I thought it was kind

of interesting, you know, life on life's terms. I found it interesting and and but then when the movie started, I have to say it was excruciating to sit through because it's not the same movie that I made that they saw, because the rhythm is completely different. You know, it's almost if you're playing this. So I play a song for you, and I stopped after the first verse for twenty minutes, and then I played the rest of

the song. The rhythm of the song has changed, so the rhythms that we spent months and months creating this one musical element of the movie, which is one musical element, was altered that day. So that that was that was hard to sit through. I really had a hard time sitting through it. Interesting, Well, what kind of products were you looking for to make the jump into directing, like and why was this the one I mean, this was a project that they've been trying to make again for

a long time. You came in and put your spin on it. But what made this one the one? And what were you looking for? I wasn't looking for other projects and then found this one. It was I wanted to make a movie or I wanted to explore cinematically certain themes that I knew that I could talk about and from a real place, because there's no reason for me to make a movie or try to to to ask you for two hours of your time and show you something visually sonically if I don't have a reason

to do it. Um so I wanted to do I wanted to really tell a love story. I wanted to tell a love story between two people who actually love each other and there's no one fidelity and still how hard it is. I wanted to tell a story about what it's like growing up and dealing with your childhood and things that occur, and then how does that influence

who you become as an adult. I wanted to examine things about finding your voice in this life, and As Star Is Born was the perfect sandbox paradigm PlayStation to to examine all those things because that the thing that would prevent me from being authentic it is that these two characters sing, and you can't take it. When you sing, it's impossible, Um, because your voice is the first thing that goes if you're not connected to your yourself, because

your breathing changes. You start talking from here and everything's gone. So I love the idea that these two characters are expressing them themselves. They're singing, and it's so it's I'm gonna know, I'm gonna have a b line right to their soul. And it's also lends itself to being cinematic, so as opposed to them being two people and other professions or in another world but the same story. How do I make it cinematic? Well, they're both musicians and

so we could play with that cinematically. Yeah. How about this influence wise, I'm curious if you know you've had a long tenure as an actor, are you more influenced by the collaborations you've had with directors as an actor or are you more influenced by the films you watch growing up in the aesthetics that appealed to you and things like that. I don't think I could quantify either one. I mean, it's it's all part of the same, the same pool of inspiration. Um. There's not one thing that

trump's the other. Certainly, you know, the majority of my life is observing by watching other films. It's only the last two decades that I've been able to collaborate with filmmakers. Um. So it's it's both, you know, it's but I mean a life lessons the short by Martin Scorsese heavily influenced this movie for me, um, even um, even parts of Hotel Chevalier, you know that short, which I love that

west In situally, I love that so much. Um. Not how he shot it though, because it's very different, but but more life lessons, the forty eight frames moments, you know, piecing out the tactile occurrences. That was totally influenced by Martin Scorsese. And that's short. Um. And then working with David or Russell and Todd Phillips and Clintics would definitely influenced how I how I talked to actors or you know,

think about the rhythm of a set. Um uh. And then just you know, being on sets for so many years, and and I've always had a curiosity Uh, intense curiosity about this process because of a love of film, of watching them since I was a kid. So I just, I just I'd love that I can be a part of the creation of a world that you can then be exposed to for two hours and a story being told in that world. That to me is like to be able to provide that and create that and explore

that is so fun. It's like endlessly fun to me. Yeah. Well, beginning with the page here, Eric Roth is actually a buddy, But I'm curious, like, did he write something first and then you guys came in and and and wrote more? Or like, how how did the project exist when you came to it, and then how did you feel like

it needed to shift? The product came Will Fetters had written the screenplay that Clint Easwood was going to do, and that was the one that I read years before when Clint eas would talk to me about playing the male character. Um. And then when I went back and had a take on it. Uh, And I asked one of brothers if they would allow me to rewrite the whole thing page one rewrite. I just want to totally go out of a different way. Um. And I said, and I'd love to work with Will if he wants

to do that, and we could do together. So we we started doing that together. He came to London, I was doing The Elephant Man, and we started writing there and then we wrote. We we wrote a couple of many drafts and then it got and I like to hear them read out loud, not me acting in them. Just I really feel like that really helps UH and UM and I just felt like it got to a point and I met. I'm trying to think how I met.

I think Greg Silverman, who was at Warner Brothers time it was a huge advocate of Eric Roth, and obviously I uh, he's a great writer and has written great screenplays and I and I said, can I just talk

to him about this movie? So I went to UM and I showed him the screen test I think that I had that I wrote and shot and to show Warner Brothers to get green lit, but not even get a green the idea of her and I together, and I said, I'd like to I'd like to almost Will and I have gone to a point and I can't quite I don't feel the movie. I don't see the movie, and I want to explore other things and will you do that with me? And he was kind enough to do that and we did. I think you have to

ask him if he's your buddy. I think it's the quickest he's ever worked. Yeah. I had not talked to him in a while, and then I realized he was a part of the project and I emailed him immediately afterwards. I was like, dude, movie rocks. Good job and uh, and he was he was. I love I love him to death. That's fantastic, hid uh, As I said, you know, I the film hasn't really worked for me in the past, the previous versions, and I think a huge part of

it is the central male character. I've never really felt empathy for him, and that's what I thought you fixed. Uh, you know, just little things. I mean, you know this debilitating your condition. Uh, the real there's a real sense of warmth I think you feel in him throughout, whereas he's always been kind of spiteful, translated into that Award show moment that's always been such a bitter, spiteful moment for him. Here it's just a tragic moment for him.

Did you feel that these were elements that needed to be tweaked it didn't. It didn't. The end result is the same, but it didn't come out of wanting to something that I didn't like. Again, it's just because I had these things I wanted to examine. And the male character was somebody who his injury is not narcissistic, you know, his injury is more about having not not not having had the ability to cultivate other aspects of his life, and that he's what happens when somebody finds their voice

has something to say. Early on, people are telling them that it's it's it's wonderful, and so he's cultivating that and then that becomes his life source. And now he's forty four years old and he's never dealt with anything, and how is he sustained? How does he sustain himself? I like this idea of a guy who looks so much like a man. He's everything you'd want to be as a man when you're young. But he's a child.

He's thirteen years old. He's that moment that that happened when his father died, his brother came back and he had to spend that year with his dad's sick um. The that was the character I wanted to create. That character doesn't care about his fame being dwindling because that's not where he's found his his sense of worth. So then it means nothing to him the idea of somebody eclipsing him if he doesn't look at him self as as as finding meaning on that level anyway, eclipse the

eclipsing means nothing. So right away those two aspects are gone, um, and it's much more about him trying to cultivate, trying to find a connection and seeing somebody and being re reinvigorated in his life and and and feeling things that maybe he hasn't been able to feel, and finding a soulmate, and and not having the tools to do that, to to actually to to go on that road, that journey with that person because his his journey is coming to

an end. That that was that character to me. So you so now implement that character into this structure, and it's there's going to be made. So the grammy scene becomes what happened, That becomes He's he thinks he thinks he's supporting her, you know, that's the whole thing. He's not hijacking her speech at all. He's just he's planning to stand there next to her and support her and

that and that scene kills me. And even when I wrote it, I thought, oh my god, you know, and even when I said, look, I think he's and to have to pee himself, you know, that's like that's laughable. It's like, yeah, but that's just it's just I want him to hit him at his real bottom. And the thing that hope feel that is embarrassment for her that he somehow tainted her experience. That to me is moving. If I if we can pull that off me as a movie go or that's something I'd want to see.

And then ties it up with the rehab scene as well, and just the breakdown the crime. Mean, it's yeah, this stuff is what for me made it finally sing. And uh yeah. I mean, if if you didn't think they needed fixing, you know, that's understandable. But I just I always felt like that. I don't know, I just always thought he was an asshole and I just didn't care

about him, And this time I cared deeply for him. Um. Also regarding what you were just talking about, the eclipsing of it all, I mean I kind of wondered going in, how is a movie that and three iterations has been about a man overshadowed by a woman who kills himself and then she takes his name. How is that going to play? In two thousand eighteen? And I thought you navigated that well too. I mean, was that something you

had your eye on? Um? I I don't. I can't create art from a place of wondering how it's going to be received. It has to start from me, from what story do I want to tell? And how personal can I make it? And make it as authentic as possible? And then but I find that it stunts any sort of creativity if I'm trying to strategize how something's going to come across. The thing that I love about storytelling

is the stories that I love feel very personal. Whether or not they are by the filmmaker, I have no idea, and it doesn't really matter, but they affected me in a personal way. So so the only way that I could feel worthy enough to tell a story is if it feels something personal to me. She's just a character

that I find very interesting. It's much more interesting for me to examine somebody who is thirty one years old and it's not a non genue and has found that her the things she wants to say, people are telling her she's not worthy of saying them. And then how people, and this is my experience, people can thrust you up above whatever, whatever whole you're in and say no, no, you have worth. And they're not telling you something you don't already feel. They're just bolstering something that you feel

inside of yourself, And that to me is interesting. So I never saw it as like he dies she that that way you described it is not the story that I've tried to make. I mean, whether you feel that way, that's it's your movie now. But but that was not that. That's not the road that I tried to examine between the two of them. Well, I think he transcended that as my point. I mean the previous iterations, that's been the vibe. So before seeing your version, I was like, well,

how's that? How's that going to play? And again I thought you definitely handled it. So Maddie Libatique, who has a great cameo by the way, in the movie, along with very interesting choice for a DP on a movie like this, Uh, I thought there was an incredible intimacy to the photography right out of the gate, like right on, you're on that stage with him, The way that the camera swirls around and meets him right here at the mic and starts on his back really, which is really

interesting as well. And the colors I think about, like the blue blue scene and stuff. It just talk about that the visual effect you were looking forward, did you, guys, like, what kind of references might you have had that? Oh? Yeah, the very specific um. The thing I loved about Maddie was, uh, I was a big fan of black Swan and requeing for a Dream, But really it was because Jennifer Lawrence had really I asked her what she thought, and because

I was looking for a dp UM. I had such a specific vision of how I wanted to shoot everything, and it's specifically the concert stuff that was one of the compositions. I made a decision early on and even told Warner Brothers. I said, look, I'm never going to be in this crowd, so I just want to I want to you guys to know that now it's all going to be on the stage, it's all going to be subjective, and I'm gonna give you scope and intimacy

at the same time. So when I met with him and he was kind of to meet with me in my house. I talked about primary colors. Um, I wanted each character to be defined by a color, and then how that changes as the movie progresses, UM, how I wanted to shoot it, what aspect ratio, the concert stuff. And then I just said, you know, and um, you know the use of that he cam and handheld and Dolly and how we're gonna how that those are all going to play in various emotional points. Because the movies

that I love, form always follows function. I'm never aware. If I'm aware of the camera movement while I'm watching the movie, the chances are it's not fueling the story. It's only in retrospect. I'm like, wow, how did that? How did that director make me feel like that? Oh? Wow? You know Stanley Cooper put golf clubs in the same corner of the room as Tom Cruise, and then tennis rackets the same corner of the room, and Nicole Kidman and like she wants to have the relationship, but he's

on his own. You know, I'm a sucker for all that stuff, you know, I just love it. That's why I was so thrilled to be able to have a palette now to to make a movie with Um and he was game for all of that. You know, fans that was this thing ceiling fans. And one of my favorite shots, not not my favorite, but what shot I really love is when they're in the dinner in the

Mexican restaurant, she's talking to him. We were able to get the reflection of the ceiling fan coming off of the counter, the order counter, right, but it's behind her, so she's not even aware of everything that this guy brings with him, you know, because that's the entreventional. He would be the thing that symbolizes death. UM. Stuff like that is very fun for me. Um and and to be able to work with such a master like him to achieve that was was wonderful. Yeah. And also, uh,

you know, the editing. I'm a great fan of the editing because it it moves the story at a clip, but also just within sequences, like uh, you know, I'm thinking about when she starts to destroy the house at the end, and then you just cut to her in

the middle of the mess. Just things like that, which I just think are great too, because we don't need everything in between that happened, you know, And you do that in the number of different ways throughout the film, and her editors Jay Cassidy, great editor uh and Mike Asaveto also worked on He was incredible who works with Jay and I had met worked with him. I think I met him on Silver Linings. He was an assistant

assistant assistant Silver Linings. But I met jam Silver Linings Playbook and also an American hustle and joy and it worked for many hours with him on those movies, and David was kind of to let me be there with them. So he and I had gone through war together already on other movies, and so it was there was no question I wasn't gonna There were a couple of people

I would not do the movie without. I knew it's Shelley Ziegler, who was the first a D who from Baltimore, and Zan her second a D. I thought, there's no way I'm gonna make this movie without them for for forty two days schedule in the three million dollar budget, There's no way I can get it done without them. And Jake Cassidy was another one, and there's no way I'm gonna do this movie without him. And all of that speaks to the rhythm you were talking about earlier, right,

I mean, did you discover things in the edit? I mean as you always do, like anything, anything profound major, yeah, oh yeah, I mean to me the most, I love shooting, uh hate writing. It's hard, horrible. It's wonderful because you have an unlimited budget and you can go anywhere in the world and create new worlds everyone. So that's creatively exciting, but it is very hard. The shooting of it is fun because I love actors and I love the creation of the film making within the moment of making it.

But editing is that way as part. Editing is when time really stops. I mean you go down to an editing room and you come out in fourteen hours have gone by and you cannot believe. And that's when you know you're having fun. Is when you can't calibrate time anymore. Um So it's all about discovery. It's almost three separate pieces of artistic content really that I've discovered this experience. The writing of the script is this wonderful process, and then at the end of it, you have the script

and that's that that is the piece of content. And then you have the shooting of the script, which is another artistic exercise and that is its own that's its own piece of content. And then you have the editing, which is its own artistic um experience and creates its own piece of content. And I really do see them as three separate things. So at the beginning of each one, you've done all this work. You have all this thing that's going to support this new exploration. But this is

a new exploration. You have to be able to throw everything away. If it doesn't work, it's not gonna then magically work. Um so I I absolutely love editing. Yeah, you basically write your movie three times. We're gonna pause here real quick. We've got more with Bradley coming up. I just have a quick word from our sponsors. Will be right back. This episode is brought to you by Warner Brothers Pictures. Crazy Rich Asians, the critically acclaimed surprise hit of the Summer, is now one of the most

buzzed about films this award season. Critics everywhere agree, Crazy Rich Asians is a phenomenon that has inspired and moved audiences and critics alike. Director John Chew redefined the romantic comedy genre with his thoroughly unexpected and genuinely relatable groundbreaking film. Entertainment Weekly calls Crazy rich Asians hilarious, heartfelt and historical.

Peter Travers of Rolling Stone says Crazy rich Asians is making history, and Jake Coyle of the Associated Press says, Hollywood, this is what you've been missing Crazy rich Asians for your consideration in all categories, including Best Picture now available on DVD and Blu ray. Alright, we're back here with

Bradley Cooper. I want to talk about the music now, especially you know, obviously the music that is hers in the film is fantastic, but I'm a huge fan of just the rowdy roadhouse kind of rock that that your band that you got promise of the Real and Lucas Nelson and to do It's got this like, uh, it's like a rowdy Ryan Bingham kind of vibe to me. I guess, uh talk to me about that because I want to know, like, is that kind of your taste

in music is? Did you explore other potential genres of music for this character to be a part of, Like how did the musical identity complete evolution? Oh? Yeah, I mean I'm a huge I'm a fan of very different types of music, so that I wouldn't say that this is my taste of music. It is a taste of mine and music. But no, I explored everything from him being much more um before I found his speaking voice. That that really determined a lot of what the bandwidth

was going to be with his singing voice. Um. But but prior to that, when Jackson wasn't created yet and I was writing the script, I was thinking about totally other different genres of music, much more sort of um, not not not heavily guitar oriented, potentially almost more like

cold playsh kind of thing. And then maybe it was more grunge, and then it was maybe then we went so country, and then and then really it was just by the sheer doing of it and learning to sing and playing with Lucas in my basement for hours and hours and hours and then starting to actually write songs uh and and melodies and everything. Um, Jackson was kind

of born. It was. It was really a very organic process that was the result of a lot of people's hard work from Mark Ronson, who I had worked with very early on, and then um, Lucas Nelson, obviously Dave Cobb, who was kind enough to come and meet with me, and I talked him about it and where he really I mean the double picket guard on his acoustic Dave Cobb's idea, the Green Gibsons Dave Cobb's idea, I love

that guk. Yeah, and he was wonderful. He introduced me to so many great musicians via text, Jason and Isabell and Sturgill Simpson and Brandy Carlyle, who I'm just obsessed with. Her latest album is just the Greatest um and and Jason Isbell sent a demo called Maybe It's Time. And when I heard that, I thought, oh my gosh and uh and that that really was one of the first anchors to Jackson's music. Yeah, I think Chris Cornell had an olive Green Gibson. So when I saw that you were,

then I didn't know that. It's like we've got like Chris Cornell specializ what what kind of like how good were you at guitar? But not good at all, because I know you put a ton of work, put a ton of work in and it really the most of the work was just learning how to be able to

finger everything and strum everything. So I never wanted to do like a cut of hands and then a cut of his face or like do some sort of head replacement like they just I didn't want to do any of that because I felt like I'm the only one who's going to be able to because how he plays the guitar such a part of who he is. UM, So I knew that I just had to make it believable. And so I spent tons of time on with the guitar with and Lucas Nelson, and he and I spent

hours and hours coming up with that sound. UM. And I heard melodies of guitar sols in my mind and I would vocally sing them to them and he would play them, and then that's how we would come up with everything. So what you hear is his dubbed over guitar. Except for a couple of acoustic moments. It's me and uh and it, but it's me playing. Yeah. I was just the other day trying to find the black Eyes riff in my garage. That's an awesome song. I mean there's a simplicity to it. Oh yeah, no, I mean

it's heavily influenced by Neil Young. Is the influence for the guitar period that you know, it's a guy who can play one note eighteen times and you're like, that's the best guitar solos ever heard. Totally, that's it. Um, let's see you shot all over my side of town. By the way, I'm an eagle rock Like you know the Memphis scene, I knew where that was, the Super eight down the street. I I love that. It gives

it for people are here anyway. It gives it kind of an interesting flavor and identity those environments, Like what what were you thinking in terms of that, In terms of placing this drama in an environment You shot all over l A. So you might have expected a movie like this wouldn't be shot here. I don't know, but yeah,

it's a very good question. And again in the writing process of originally I wanted this idea but to start in New York and they move out west and all of a sudden he goes to the sea and that's sort of when his death was him dying like James Mason, right, Um, and then then and then in terms of shooting in l A, it's it's a it's a big thing because you know, l A has been shot so wonderfully and

so many movies from Chinatown to um to collateral. You know, it's it's it's you know, it's like, okay, if I'm gonna make l a a character as much as it can be. So really that part of town, to me was unexplored in a lot of ways, and it wasn't La La Land, California. Also yeah yeah, so they also had just nailed it, uh in terms of setting, um.

And so then it really they became about and Karen Murphy was incredible production designer, and the and the and the the other gentleman who was the escale was incredible finding places it was really about, and then it just

started to stem from story. I wanted to have them on the little dividers in a car in a parking lot at four in the morning, and I wanted the right aid, even though it's not called the right aid, and we didn't find a right aid, but originally in my mind is like, it's a right aid because I wanted to anyway. But I wanted to be like the like a stage so that when she gets up, it's literally like it looks like you're at a massive concert. Um. So then it's like, okay, that's what I want, So

how do we find it? I wanted Jackson's house to be almost an idea or an image of where you think he came from, an Arizona, this idea of just like nothing everything is sort of natural, everything's natural. You know that he could sort of hibernate there. He's almost like an animal or organic. So so then we found that place, uh, the Virgil, which is where we shot

the drag Bar. That was I wanted a place to feel like the place The Blue because I called it the Blue Blue, which is the same place, the same name as the part that Mason walks into to find Judy Garland. And I wanted that feeling inside but remade. So it was all came from story. It was like, here's the idea of this thing I want. And then so that we went and found it. I think you could almost do like a walking tour of location. Yeah, yeah, we were. There was not one day on the in

the studio. That's amazing. Yeah, I actually had and then we read to real places. I mean, that's the forum, that's the shrine, that's Glassonbury, that stage coach, you know, even though the Greek is supposed to be northern California. Yeah. I actually had Sam on the show last year for the hero. Uh, and he was in the middle of shooting at the time, and he was stoked to be in l A shooting a movie day, you know. And by the way, speaking of Sam, I literally I don't

have a question here. I just wrote Sam Elliott because you know it's Sam Elliott. It's like he's he delivered my favorite line of any movie and Roadhouse, the Big White Mint line. Do you know what he says? That place is so hardcore they have to hang a sign in the bathroom that says don't eat the big meant which I just and I'm obsessed with that movie. Oh my god, it's so guess when he's on the phone

with him before he comes into dread. But you know, I love the fact that you found this organic, interesting way for why you sound the way you sound, and when he said, why did you take my voice? And just again these little elements that are very story driven. But was Sam the guy in your mind from the beginning from well not from the beginning beginning. Uh, there

wasn't even that his manager was his brother. It was only until I started, uh trying to learn how to speak like Sam Elliott, not knowing he was going to be in it yet or even create the character of Bobby. And then it was simultaneously reading Bruce Springsteen's autobiography and he talked about stealing his father's voice and again talking about how can I make it personal? How is something

and sot off to act it. I used to always want to be my father and I was a kid, and I was like, oh, this makes sense because this is Jackson has this trauma. I always knew this thing I want to do. I didn't want to have the father there, but you know, the father without him being a character. And that's why the age difference between me and say him I had to solve because I once I was like, sam Ellie, it's his brother. Well, people are gonna go like, why isn't he his dad? You know?

So then we come up with the story of you know, the mother died, and it's like, because because that's something that happens all the time, there's differences in ages, so you just have to justify it. Because I remember we tested the movie without that scene that when he's explaining to Ali, and so many of the comments were I don't understand why he's not his dad, and he did. It's interesting you're like, I'm like, oh man, I was right.

We do need it. Yeah. The scene when he throws the truck and reverse, I mean, I think that makes everybody cry. And he doesn't say a word, He's just backing up his truck and he's got tears in his eyes. I just I'm curious about directing that scene. Did it take a number of That was the first? That was the first first. I think we did it twice. Maybe we did three times. And that's all that it was ever gonna be. Was he throws it in reverse. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I I'm and I learned this

from Dereksy in France, who's really wonderful. I did the place a movie called Place Beyond the Pines, and if you ever saw I love really great. He's a great director and he really you know that scene when my character goes to his buddies baseball practice, Uh, I literally this the shot started by me pulling into the neighborhood, walking all the way. Finally we both looked at each othercase were shooting two perfect. It was like it wasn't even on video a digital and I was like, I

think I think I think I got it. We could just started off. But the more you could put place your actors in an environment that that they don't have to act and they could use all of their surroundings, the better. And I love shooting two cameras at the same time. And I and that's also part of these are two characters that have hidden from things about themselves. So you know, you're in terms of you said about starting on Jackson's back, you're always He's always avoiding the

camera the whole movie until eventually he can't anymore. And the cameras were literally, you know, Scott sakamotos like this over me on the bed um and Sam too, So I always one of those French overs. You know. We didn't even shoot it this way or out the windows. Always its two cameras. And so it was Maddie and Skot Sakamoto in the back of the pickup and we went for a ride around for about ten minutes and then pulled in. I says, we're gonna go for a ride,

We're gonna do the scene. We can do the scene a couple of times as we're driving and then and then filming it. And because it was a longer scene than I cut down, there was talking about Bobby's the woman used to live with who got breast cancer. There's a whole there's a whole thing that we cut out. Um. So they go on this ride and then I said, then we're gonna pull up and I'm gonna get out. And the only thing I just don't want you to get out of the truck. That's that's it. I think

that's the only thing I told him. Um. And then I had another camera inside the garage on a on Dolly track that was going back for when Jackson Lee's which I didn't use. Um and uh. And then the other thing I just took to the camera. I was like, once I leave, just Maddy's gonna go down to the ground and Scotch just gonna stay on Sam, Let's see what happens. And that was It's an amazing moment in the movie. Uh. And how difficult was it to nail down that voice, by the way, Yeah, it took. It

took months and months and months. It's because it's one thing that it's not like because you start out by mimicking it, and then it has to be as natural as me talking to you now, because you have to be open and present otherwise it's pointless. You're just doing a a sort of you know, a superficial sketch of the voice. But you, as the viewer have to feel like it has to not even feel like you have to know that what is for me as the person

and which is that's just my voice? You know? In that moment, as Jackson did, you have to like I'd worked with this guy, Tim Monic, an incredible dialect coach. We worked for four hours, five days a week, first months and months and months and learning what is the actual how does air work through Sam's mouth? You know what I mean, It's really it's it's fascinating. Where's the tongue set? You know what I mean? What's the rhythm? You know, it's really crazy. It was it like something

that you maintained. Did you shake it easily at the end of the day, Like um, I would do exercises every morning on my way to work. Uh, And I kind of stayed in that voice kind of the all working day and then it would kind of go away at the end and sometimes but but my voice deaf finitely changed during that process. I'm sure like Chris Kyle, I kind of stayed in the voice the whole time I was shooting leave An off camera in some weird way,

but this one I would go in and out. But but but I would spend the day pretty much and then in and like the Grammy scenes, certain scenes where he's messed up, you know, I would sort of stay in that. But the crew everybody sort of got it, and it didn't. I don't think it hindered the process at all, but it was just easier for me to do it that way. Lady Gaga, her performance is interesting to me. There's there's these moments that aren't like refined actor moments, and I think that adds so much to

the naturalism of her. Like I'm thinking about when she's talking to you in the dressing room, for instance, Like there's like a it's like a quiver in her voice. There's just there, which maybe she's like nailing exactly what you wanted, but it to me, it felt like it was one of those unrefined moments that really worked. And I'm just curious, like finding the performance with her, what was that back and forth like? And is my read

on it correct? You know just what I mean? My hope is that you felt that about Dave Chappelle and Sam Mellie and at the Ramos all all everybody that everybody felt like they weren't acting. Um, she was doing exactly what I wanted to do, which was like play the circumstance, which is this guy walks in. You saw this. You already feel this way about yourself as an artist as it is, and you're but you're also very tough

and where you come from. And he's in this space and you know, these people are attracted to each other, and you know, but they're both injured and all of these things so to me, and and then and then she just lives it. And uh and and the one thing I promised her and everybody else is the only thing I can tell you is there won't be one frame of you on up there in the final version of the movie that I don't believe, you know, and what you saw, I believe it. I don't believe she's

acting refined. She's just being real. And I hope I feel about everybody. You know, you do, you do? I wanted to spylight her in particular though, because you know, we haven't seen her like that. I mean, she was, and her willingness to put the work in was very admirable. We spent I postponed the movie two months just so she and I can work, could work on our characters together,

and that I mean she's a bit very busy. Her willingness to put all that work in was Thank god, let's talk about for me too, for Jackson, for us to get together and to really be able to to live these scenes and to have the filming process of the movie b as creative as it was. How did you find directing yourself? Um? I think by the way that your work is the best performance of the year. I think that what you've done here is fantastic. And uh,

you know, I'm left wondering. You know, it's a directorial debut and you're directing yourself. Was that a challenge? Just tell me about that? Thank you? Um? Well, the one great thing is that being being able to direct the movie that I'm acting in is that I've been doing this for twenty years, so I know, I definitely am aware of what I need in order to feel safe enough to really take a leap of faith, um and

really risk. So the fact that I was the person that was able to create that environment to do that made it very easy than to act in it, because

it was everything that I want as an actor. And then my hope is that every other actor that was in that environment also felt that, because you know, I've been in very various types of environments that that create uh different energies and and and I've learned what that does to observing other actors and what it feels like, well what they could be capable of and not doing or when they flourish. Um. So it was a real asset that I was able to um to create the

environment that I want to work in. What else do you want to make? I mean, do you have any thing that's kind of burning that you want to make? Are you eager to make? Like directing a bigger part of your career than acting even? I mean, how do you feel the same way I've always felt, which is um, Well, no, no, that's not true. That's not true at all. Actually, No, The one thing I do feel about this after this experience is that I feel like I can do it.

That I could take an id or a feeling or sensation or a series of thoughts and compositions and and hone them and ask a group of artists to come together and tell a story. I feel like I succeeded in doing that. So that's all I want to do. That's all I've ever really wanted to do. I just knew I wasn't ready to do it. Um And then the question becomes, well, what is there something to say? You know? What? What? What is there? I mean when this movie ended, I knew it's all I ever want

to do. But I don't know if I'll ever find a story that I know that I need to tell. And I have found one. I don't I can't talk about it yet just because I don't. We'll see, but but yes, I have found something that will probably be another four years of my life. But I feel so lucky that I feel something that I feel so passionate about. You think you're more in love with that than acting. I don't see them as um well, uh, I've always been in love with that more than acting. It's not

a new thing, you know. And and I've always walked on sets and the thing that fascinates me is the making of a movie movie always, um, So I was able to be on those sets as an actor, like that's what got me in the door, right, But I've always once I got into the world. I want to learn how the world works because these are the things that I observed as a kid. Movies moved me. Performance in movies, but the movies, um so so yes, I

look forward to whatever you got next. The last thing I want to ask just a completely different subject of the mule. I'm just you know, looking forward to this movie. Uh, Clint Eastwood, you're in it as well, second movie for you this year. What can you tell me about it? Man, I'm looking forward to it. Um, yeah, I'm looking forward to see it. Yeah, I haven't seen it yet. Um,

but I would do anything with Clinton, you know. And um, there's you know, I was able to be with Launce Fishburn's and Michael Pania Fishburne and Michael Pania, so that was a thrill. Um. It's a small role to the age and who's finding who's going after the Clint's character. Um, but yeah, if he asked me to open up a door in a movie, I'd say, you know, one day of the week, am I There get to be a little cleaner cutting that one too than Stars Born as well? Well,

everyone should check out of Stars Born. If you're not one of the many who haven't Uh, it's still in theaters, it's still making money. It'll be on blue ray DVD at some point, and hopefully we'll be talking about it for a long time to come. Again. I think it's one of the best movies of the year. Seven grabs man. Thank you, thanks for talking, thanks for coming on the chef. I appreciate it. Once again. This episode of Playback has

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