Verse with Sam Beck

I'm Doc issues from capes on the couch, a show that examines the mental health issues of comic book characters, part of the Gunna Geek Network. Just like the show you're checking out now. Shows on the network are individually owned, and opinions expressed may not reflect others. Find other amazing, geeky shows@gunageeknetwork.com.

And welcome to Play comics, where once again, we're taking a little detour from. The video game thing and hitting up. A bonus episode where I am talking to Sam Beck about her comic verse. Sam, first off, we just have to know, how are you today? Because we got to get things off on the right foot.

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm doing fantastic. Keeping warm here in Toronto. Yeah. How are you doing? It has been a long week, and it seemed like today was a week.

In itself, so I'm glad that we. Get to end it with talking about something nice and wholesome and everything like this.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The comic is wholesome for the most part. There's a bit of trials and tribulations in it, but, you know, keep it light.

Well, if it wasn't, then it's just. A little golden book, and those are fun, but whatever.

Yeah, very true.

So I need to start this the same place I start most of these bonus episodes here. What is your elevator pitch for verse? For anybody who hasn't heard of it before?

Yeah. So verse is a fantasy trilogy. It's kind of magic. It's ya focused. Books one and two are out already, and book three is coming out in the summer. So basically, the world of verse takes place in a world where humans only have access to a really limited form of magic called the verse. But there's monsters about called the Vel, and they have the potential to cause lots of damage because they have unlimited access to magic. So the comic kind of centers on two characters, Fife and nitya. Fife is this young kid who's just out there trying to become, like, the best swordsmith because you need some weapons to fight these scary monsters and protect yourself. And along his journey, he kind of accidentally breaks the seal on this amulet that's being passed down to him, and out kind of emerges this girl, nitya, and the kind of big problem is she looks a lot like these vel monsters that have been tormenting people in this world. But, you know, she's not bad. She's just kind of lost and confused and doesn't know what's going on. So they journey together to find out more about who she is. We learned that she can use magic, just like those monsters. And, yeah, book one really is about finding out more about the world, finding more about who Nithya is, and following these two as they kind of grow together.

Because this is a nice chunk of comic here. So I'd imagine it's been a little bit.

Yeah. So first is interesting, I started out working on it in, like, 2017, and it was first actually available totally for free online as a webcomic. So that's how it got started. I updated it every week, a couple of pages, and eventually I had enough to have book one, which I decided to kind of fund through Kickstarter. That one's successful. I went around with it to a bunch of conventions all through 2019, and thankfully, my editor from Vault Comics founded at one of these conventions, and they decided to kind of pick it up to do books two and three and get it printed and distributed. So it's been a really fun and successful journey for the comic. I'm super grateful that it has the distribution of a publisher now.

Did you work on this one all by yourself, essentially, you know, outside of editors and stuff?

Yeah. So because it started as a webcomic, originally it was just all me, and it's continued to be all me. So I write it, I illustrate it, ink it, color it, all that stuff, and then my editor, you know, copy edits it. And I worked with her, kind of refining more like books two and three because we could kind of sit back and see the larger scope of the story, whereas book one, I was kind of like building the train tracks as the train was running deal, which I feel like is how a lot of webcomic creators do stuff. But it was nice to have the opportunity to actually look at it from a bigger picture. For books two and three, how big.

Honestly, it's probably a good problem to. Have, knowing that you've got the webcomic story that maybe has to be broken up a little bit.

Yeah, I think, like, when I was doing the webcomic, I always wanted it to be printed. Like, if you look at, I think when people think of webcomics now, at least in like, 2024 or whatever, they think of, like, webtoons, which has, like, the scrollable, like, kind of like one panel per screen. Like, when I was doing first, in my mind, I always wanted to print it so it set up like a comic you would flip through, which was helpful when it actually became printed and published, I didn't have to go back and recut everything.

So the version that is on your. Website now, is that how it was released, as a webcomic page at a time like that? Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. So right now. So speaking of, if you go to versecomic.com right now, I've been able to put it back online after it was offline for a really long time. So book one is up there free to read right now. Two is being updated weekly as well. Yeah, it would just be, like, released a page at a time or multiple pages, depending on if that made sense. It kind of sucks. Like when you're doing a web comic and you have one page and it's this weird cliffhanger, so you try and make it so that it's a couple of pages, the readers aren't like, oh, what's going to happen? And left in a really awkward spot.

That's something I never thought about because. I just kind of assumed that people reading a one page at a time webcomic would know that there's probably going to be some weird stuff there.

Yeah, I mean, I think that is the expectation, but me, as the writer feels bad when it is an incredibly awkward spot. It's almost like a mid sentence and it just cuts off. So sometimes there's multiple pages that go up, but I think having talked to readers and stuff, a lot of the time they just wait for a big chunk to have gone up, and then we'll read 50 pages at once. So that's a way to do it as well.

What kind of writing experience did you. Have before starting verse?

None. So my background is, I used to do a lot of web design for mobile applications and stuff like that, but I've always been into drawing. I've always really been into just writing little characters and telling stories and stuff. So verse was really kind of my first writing thing. And, like, I've been extremely lucky that it's turned out so well and actually being, like, picked up by a publisher and, like, has a good size readership. So, yeah, it really was, like, my first big writing thing, which is why, like, you know, looking back on it, I would have done a lot of things differently, but I've learned a ton from working on that.

What do you think you have to. Put more thought into between the writing and the art?

Like I said, I don't think I'm a writer first. I'm much more an artist and a draftsperson, so the art feels a lot easier than writing. I put a lot more thought into writing it. I have tons of notebooks of different versions of this comic on my computer. It's gone through, like, a lot of revisions, and I'm still not super confident in my storytelling. But, like, I think just the opportunity to have, like, written this has made me a better writer, but there's still a kind of a long way to go, whereas, like, I feel way more confident as an artist. Like, aside from verse, I do a lot of other comic jobs with writers, so there's a lot more experience drawing than writing. But it's really great to be able to kind of do both and be, like, the captain of your own project for writing and art.

Since this is just you on the. Creative side, at least. Do you ever wish you had somebody that you could bounce ideas off of that was working on it with you?

Yeah. So, I mean, that's why it was really nice when fault picked it up, and I had an editor, Rebecca Taylor. Like, she was really great because for the first time, she was super invested in this comic. I think she loved the characters as much as I did. So I was actually able to be like, hey, does this make sense? Just show her a chunk of what I'm working on. So that was really, really nice. I love working with other writers because I've had great experiences with them where they're really open to bouncing ideas off of me and vice versa. I think that's kind of like the best partnership is when your writer is open to feedback from the artist and isn't just kind of trying to direct everything and control everything. Because comics is a collaboration, especially when there's multiple people involved. Even as, like, the writer and artist, I still feel like it's a collaboration with my editor.

So when writer, you, and artist, you. Have to fight over how something is going to happen. Does artists u usually win?

Yeah, I think they do, actually. Like, a lot of times I'll write something and, like, when I get into, like, doing the layouts and stuff, I'm like, writer me, like, this makes no sense. I have to change it. It's not flowing correctly because I think at the end of the day, I'm a much more visual person. So even though I have a script, when it gets to drawing the pages, my brain can process the flow of the comic a lot better once I've drawn it out. So artists me is the kind of final say in how the story's going to go.

But you do have other people besides. The editor you can throw ideas at and get some feedback for, right?

My husband, I guess. But yeah, when it was online, I suppose the first version of the comic, when it was online, it had comments enabled. So I wouldn't recommend people to take feedback on the fly from their readers. But it is kind of nice to see that feedback come in and get a sense of what people are thinking. I think that's part of, like, the webcomic experience that a lot of people enjoy when they put things online like that. But, yeah, like, it's my close friends who aren't writers or artists, but I trust them. Seeing my work in a rough state, and then my editor have really been the people that have seen verse before it's been printed.

So as important as it is for. The editor to like things, I mean, they'll admit it. With me, if the audience isn't there and the audience doesn't like it, then it doesn't matter how much the publisher and the editor likes it. How has that change been for you. Knowing that you can't get that instant audience feedback anymore?

Yeah, I think it was, it was kind of hard. Like. Like I said, like, I think as a webcomic creator, we're doing that because it's, like, an easy way to have a day job and just get a comic out there without having hard deadlines. But I think a big part of it is that you enjoy that feedback. So not having that was a bit of an adjustment, but I don't think it impacted how I was going to tell the story as much as I thought it was going to. You know what I mean?

Is this one designed, at least at. This point, to be a trilogy?

Yeah. Yeah. So once it was picked up after that first book, like, I'm like, it's gonna be a trilogy. Like, I think the, like, verse could have been, like, really long, and, like, I could have extended it forever if I wanted to. But I think it's nice to have, like, a finality to, like, your work. Like, something to work towards. And it's one of these things where, like, I was a new writer on this project, like, I've never written before. There's a lot of things I would have changed, and I think having this be done at the end of three books and being able to, like, move on to something new with all this new experience is good. I would want to keep, like, picking away at a comic that I've been working on for, like, six years now.

I've found that most of the time. There is a character who is the person that I have on the show. So which of the characters in verse is you?

I would have to say that the character Fife, who is kind of. It's not like a main protagonist. It's really Fife, and it here, like, the main characters in this comic, but Fife is me, because bad boy is full of anxiety and nervousness and doesn't know what he's doing. And I feel like that a lot. So I really get to channel my own anxieties through this character. He starts off super fearful, really kind of. He would describe it as cowardly, and I think that's a very fun main character to have as someone who has such a potential to change and grow, but really just placing all my fears and anxieties onto this kid was fun.

So which of your characters would be. Your partner in crime?

Partner in crime? Well, there's this one character. Her name is Magdalene, and she kind of shows up towards the middle of book one. And she's this ultra nerdy, scholarly type. She has the best intentions, but they come out how to say this, like, she wants to help Fife and Itia in this story, but she goes about it in a way where it's almost, like, too much like it's this trope of, like, having this nerdy character who kind of pushes it to the extreme anyway. I think she's, like, a really good counterpart. And, like, I would be friends with her in real life, and she would kind of push me to do things that are maybe questionable. But further the interest, where did the.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah, it was fun to do, especially when, like, characters are speaking them, like, in the word bubbles, where it's very clear what they're saying in these glyphs. You can, like, flip to the back and then translated to English. My editor really hated me because she had to go and, like, see, she had to translate it herself to make sure there were no spelling mistakes in these weird glyphs I had put in.

They're weird glyphs anyway. Couldn't that have just been how they spell it in that world?

But they would translate to fire, but, like, if fire was spelled wrong and then someone translated that, it would be funny. See, I would have left those in on purpose.

But I'm the weirdo who. Would do things like that. When did you figure out how this. Whole story was going to go?

So I think I kind of figured that out in the middle of the second book, which sounds wild. It feels like you should know where your story is going to go when you started. But it really wasn't until the middle where I'm like, okay, I understand what the ending of this is going to be without spoiling it or getting into it in book two, it's kind of this pivotal moment where everything breaks bad, the world falls into complete chaos. So really, the second half of book two and book three is fixing this and making a choice on do the characters keep magic in this world at the expense of maybe, like, monsters roaming around hardship? Or do they kind of, you know, like, bleep magic from. From this world? No one has access to it, which some people might want, but it might be like, a really sad fate for. For other characters. So, yeah, book two introduces, like, the big decision, and in my mind, I'm like, okay, now I need to understand, like, from the point of view of each of these characters. Like, what would they want in these two decisions? Do they want to keep magic or do they want to get rid of it? And that kind of dictated the ending for book three.

Did you go through and write big chunks and then go back and do the art, or do the art and. Then finalize the writing or what?

So my process is I would write, like, a chapter, which I guess is about, like 50 pages, write all of it, mull over it for a long time, and then do the artwork for it completely, and then do the next chapter. So it was kind of broken up. Like, when I've worked with other writers, like, I get the entire script, obviously, because it's going through a lot more, like, rounds of edits and stuff. They want to give me something that's a bit more final, but when I'm working, it's more in these, like, chapter chunks, like 50 pages a piece, which is fun. It keeps it, like, pretty flexible, which I enjoyed, at least. I think if I was working with someone, I wouldn't want to give that to them. I'd want to give them the entire book, but for myself, because it's just me writing. Like, that was really exciting.

If they had asked you to let. Somebody else write it or let somebody. Else do the art, how quickly would. You have told them to get lost?

Immediately. I would have just gotten back to doing it by myself online because this was my first book. It feels really personal. I wanted to see it through to the end. Regardless of how I feel about the quality or the story. Just having these three books done was, like a really big accomplishment. I'm really glad that I got the chance to do it, but it would not have been my book if someone else was writing it or if someone else was doing the art, especially.

And I'm assuming they gave you comp copies. So what's the longest it took somebody to find the copy that you hid in their house?

I haven't hidden any copies. I'm more like, here, please take it and read it. Maybe I should start hiding them in people's houses, though. It's a good marketing tactic. Give them the one right up front and then hide a second one. I'm gonna have to keep that in mind. Then.

They have one that I can give to a friend.

Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna make a note of that for book three. Just start hiding it in places.

If people want to get their hands. On a physical copy of one and. Two, are they able to get those from their local comic shops or what. Is the best way for them to do that?

So they can definitely call their local comic shops if they're not in stock. I know a lot of places will be able to order them. And then, of course, Amazon stuff. But shopping local is preferred. So you just call up your local comic shop and see if they have copies. And if you're looking for a book three, you can also ask local comic stores to try and get them for you as well.

Yeah, Amazon is great for not having. To leave the house, but they don't pull you all of the Peach Momogo covers, even the ones you didn't know that were coming out. What kind of other things are you reading right now?

So right now what I'm reading is I actually was revisiting a really old webcomic called Necropolis by Jake Wyatt. I kind of gotten back to it. I don't think he updates it anymore. It's online. But when I was originally starting, Versa was a huge inspiration for it. His art is amazing. His kind of world building is really fantastic. So I've been revisiting that. The other comic that I read often and look forward to updates on is the Finland saga series. It's Vikings. It also has this kind of character who goes from being like this, like, bratty kid to being this ultra pacifist, which is. I really like that trope. There's elements of that in my characters as well where they don't want to do violence, they want to kind of find the peaceful route. And the artwork is fantastic. If you're into, like, sword fights and historical accuracy in Vikings, I would assume.

I've had so many people tell me. I should read that one or watch it, and I just haven't had time for either one.

It's really fantastic. I actually watched the first season before I read it, and I fell in love with it immediately, then sought out all the comics, and I've tried collecting the physical copies of them. It's really great.

Is it cheating if you just go. Buy the complete box set?

No. Whatever. If someone were to be like, is it cheating if you bought all of first? I'd be like, no, please buy all of them at once. Not cheating. It's very appreciated. Well, I mean, that should definitely happen.

Because this is like I told Sam before we started, I haven't gotten to. Read as much of this as I usually do. This week has just been a week, but what I've seen is definitely something that I'm going to go finish up. And then pester my local shop about. Why I haven't seen it in there, because I'm friends with most of them and I can do that.

I appreciate the pestering.

Pestering is the best way to get things in. You just have to convince them to. Get the things that you want, mostly because inevitably. All right, cool. So here's a story then. We're going to date ourselves a little bit. For some reason, my shop missed the. Fact that there was a Godzilla Valentine's Day special this year, and so they just didn't order it. And I don't know what happened there. But because I wanted it, the two.

Godzilla was like a Valentine's Day from you to everyone that's visiting the comic store now. It really is. And I love when just the friendships made at the local shop are so much fun. And it might be somebody that you just see for ten minutes every week because just fate decided that you're gonna be going at the same time. But knowing that you can sit there and ask people about, you know, what random things should I get, what covers should I get, that kind of thing.

It's been a whole lot of fun.

Yeah, it's super important. Yeah, I think, like, being able to. We have a comic store really close by also the silver snail, like, just being able to go in and, like, see what's new and, like, chat with other people there. Like, it's great.

How much did you have to pressure. Them to get your book in the store?

Thankfully, I have a publisher that pressures people for me. I'm a very shy person. I'm not big into pressuring people. I probably should be, but I'm not.

I'd think that you'd be able to go in there and say, here's some copies. If they don't sell, I'll just take them back.

I've done that with a different store, the Bug island, which is awesome. They have a lot of indie comics here in Toronto as well, so it's definitely something that I can do.

So as we start to wind things. Down, I do have the question that I ask everybody. I don't think I asked the last episode, but I'm going to ask you, who's your favorite Muppet?

Muppet is I can only think of Sesame street characters. Do they count as Muppets? I leave it open ended on purpose because some people need to be able to block them out. I'm gonna say Oscar the grouch, then he's a sesame seed character, but he's great. I mean, I aspire to be a cranky old lady and just, you know, on my.

Okay, so the fact that you said Oscar and then we both started talking. Over each other to say basically the same thing. Why haven't we been friends before this? Yeah, no, I'm seriously asking.

I don't know. Should have gone on this podcast sooner.

So I showed my wife the email. That Jenny Ortega, who's been helping you out with getting booked on shows and stuff, I showed her this email and she went and she looked you up. Which was not why I sent it to her, but I was really appreciative of it. And about the first thing she said. Was, yeah, you guys are gonna be.

Friends just on vibes alone, pretty much. Amazing. I know your podcast is about games, and in my mind, I'm like, yes, let's talk about some. I don't know if there's time, because what I do want to say is when people ask me what inspired verse on other podcasts, usually they want to hear other comics. But for me, really, it's video games that were probably the top of my inspiration list if I'm ever going to talk about what inspired verse.

So which Legend of Zelda game was it?

Okay, the main character, five. Looks like Link. I've sold postcards at conventions where people think it's Link, and I'm like, I'm not going to stop you from buying this postcard because it's money for me. It's not Link, but thank you anyway. But the big video game inspiration has actually been the Dragon Age series is, like, my number one inspiration for, like, so much of verse. Like, if someone's familiar with Dragon Age and especially like the third game in this series. And then they read verse. The connection is immediate because there's lots of scary rifts tearing open and like demons in Dragon Age coming out. Or in my case, the valor monsters. It's very. You can really see the like pathways between both of them.

The perfect game of verse for you. What console would it be on and. What genre of game?

It would be a PS one JRPG where you gather your party and you're able to kind of get around a campfire with them and then like set out to like kick some monster. But that would be what first would be as a video game.

Like full on portrait Atlas port.

Yes. Yeah. Getting to talk to each of them. Little portraits. Yeah, for sure. We get the verse Valkyrie profile crossover. Oh my God. I wish I would like if I could pick anything for like this comic to be put into. Like, I don't care about a tv show, like whatever, I want it to be a video game. I think that would be amazing. Do you know who you would want.

To develop it or anything?

That's a great question. I mean, like I said, the old Bioware would be cool because I think that would be a great fit. I'll go with them, I guess.

I know this is probably a bunch of stuff you don't usually get asked. About too, isn't it?

No, but I love it.

That is what I strive for is. Not be in like every other interview you've done. So I'm glad I could provide that for you. Yes, but eventually all things must end sadly, like this episode. But it has been great talking to. You about this and knowing that I get to tell Kaylee. Yes, you are right. And you're going to want to read this. And yeah, you don't get to steal my copy because it's online.

It's been super fun talking to you and getting to talk a bit about games as well. So yeah, I've had a blast. Thanks for having me on.

And if people want to hear more from you, where else can they find you? Around the Internet?

So I'm Sam Beck draws on all social media, Twitter, Instagram. You can find first at firstcomic.com dot.

And just like everything else, we'll have. Links to all that stuff down in the show notes because clicking links is so much easier than trying to remember how to spell things. Although this one is pretty easy.

Definitely.

As always, if you want to hear more from me, you can head on over to playcomics.com where there's links to all the social media things still mostly on Twitter because that's where the audience is. And what can you do about that? I don't know. Maybe try to drag them over to other places. If you want to help support the show, the best thing to do is to just tell your friends about it. Leave a review on Podchaser or Apple Podcasts or any of those places like that. Prove to me that you did that and I will send you a sticker and some things that I've randomly picked up from the comic shop. You know, you can't always be like, oh no, lit class and Dan McMahon and Carl Antonovitz and give me money because it does cost money to run podcasts, unfortunately. But really, just leave the review.